Da Rulk II - Episode 866

This episode is brought to you by Thorne and I have some incredible news for any of you that are in the military, first responder or medical professions. In an effort to give back, Thorne is now offering you an ongoing 35% off each and every one of your purchases of their incredible nutritional solutions. Now Thorne is the official supplement of CrossFit, the UFC, the Mayo Clinic, the Human Performance Project and multiple special operations organizations.

I myself have used them for several years and that is why I brought them on as a sponsor. Some of my favorite products they have are their Multivitamin Elite, their Whey Protein, the Super EPA and then most recently, Cynaquil. As a firefighter, a stuntman and a martial artist, I've had my share of brain trauma and sleep deprivation and Cynaquil is their latest brain health supplement. Now to qualify for the 35% off, go to thorn.com, T-H-O-R-N-E dot com.

Click on sign in and then create a new account. You will see the opportunity to register as a first responder or member of military. When you click on that, it will take you through verification with GovX. You'll simply choose a profession, provide one piece of documentation and then you are verified for life. From that point onwards, you will continue to receive 35% off through Thorn.

For those of you who don't qualify, there is still the 10% off using the code BTS10, Behind the Shield 10 for a one time purchase. To learn more about Thorn, go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield podcast with Joel Titoro and Wes Barnett. This episode is sponsored by Newcom and as many of you know, I only bring sponsors onto this show whose products I truly swear by. We are an overworked and under slept population, especially those of us that wear uniform for a living.

And trying to reclaim some of the lost rest and recovery is imperative. The application of this product is as simple as putting on headphones and a sleep mask. As you listen to music on each of the programs, there is neuroacoustic software beneath that is tapping into the actual frequencies of your brain, whether to up regulate your nervous system or down regulate.

Now for most of us that come off shift, we are A, exhausted and B, do not want to bring what we've had to see and do back home to our loved ones. So one powerful application is using the program Powernap, a 20 minute session that will not only feel like you've had two hours of sleep, but also down regulate from a hypervigilant state back into the role of mother or father, husband or wife. Now there are so many other applications and benefits from the software.

So I urge you to go and listen to episode 806 with CEO Jim Poole, then download Newcom N-U-C-A-L-M from your app store and sign up for the seven day free trial. Not only will you have an understanding of the origin story and the four decades this science has spanned, but also see for yourself the incredible health impact of this life changing software. And you can find even more information on Newcom.com. Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome back onto the show first responder strength and conditioning coach, the creator of RFT and my friend, Darolk.

Now in this second conversation, we discuss a host of topics from the importance of learning lessons from the pandemic and applying it to the health of the nation, cold water and resilience training in first responders, strength and conditioning, ocean lifeguards, the iron neck, his work with five 11 and so much more.

Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating. Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find. And this is a free library of well over 850 episodes now.

So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women's stories so I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them. So that being said, I welcome back onto the show Darolk. Enjoy. Darolk, I want to start by firstly saying welcome to the brand new Behind the Shield podcast setup. I finally got away from my desk. You look so comfortable. Look at that. You got blackened. Look at the pillow. Is that what is that? Is that a flag pillow?

Yeah. Yeah. It's part of the Hawaiian flag, I think. I love it, bro. I love it. So yeah, I mean, having been forced into more of the video stuff, I figured I'd move away from my little hunched over the desk and make it a little bit more comfortable. But yeah, so I want to welcome you, mate. We did, I don't know how long ago it was now, probably what, four years ago that we talked last, I think. So yeah, a lot has changed. So welcome. Right.

The first one was like six years ago, right after Kaisax, I think six years ago. And then do we do one after that, for like another one after that? Like, did we not? It's been six years, then, mate. It has. Yeah. We, you know, as you know, we were just talking before we hit record how busy even this year has been. We've scheduled some and it just fell off and it was like, you know, we know it's going to happen eventually. And here we are, 2023 December.

Yeah. Like guys, everyone that's listening, James is just an amazing human person. So and he's doing such a great job and great and great stuff. So I'm proud of you, brother. I'm always so proud of you. Likewise, mate. Likewise. Well, for everyone listening, where on planet Earth we finding you this afternoon? I am in Southern California right now, just hanging out. I had a eventful morning. I was, you know, I have the new puppy. So that's always a challenge.

And then running around was in my garden. And then I somehow migrated a baby toad into my into my place and I can't find the toads. And now I guess the toads moved in. So it's it's like I kicked them in the house. So six years, my goodness. So that means that we've been through all kinds of things, including the pandemic.

Now, I like to revisit this because there are a lot of lessons that should have been pulled from those couple of years that I think a lot of people just swept under the rug and under the underlying health of our men, women and children is a very important discussion, not only in the first responder professions where we need performance, but also just in longevity and the middle of the road.

Truth of Covid was whether you got vaccinated, whether you didn't, whatever it was, the healthier you were, the higher likelihood there was of a good outcome if you did get it or if you even took the vaccine. So talk to me being in that strength and conditioning world, what the years kind of leading up to Covid were like for you and then and then what that experience was for you personally through your eyes. You know, Covid was interesting.

I mean, I think it clarified for a lot of people that, you know, everything's a bit fragile, you know, and you have to be prepared to take care of yourself and not rely on be so reliant on other things. But prior to Covid, I know we were I was when we first started doing the app and I was starting to work with Chris Hemsworth and we did Center and that was going well. And then the pandemic hit. But a lot of my training protocols, as you know very well, James, is all body weight based.

So it's body weight based. You don't need a lot of space, not a lot of room. So, you know, in essence, the pandemic kind of, I think, opened people's eyes to a lot of my training protocols because couldn't go to the gym, couldn't get equipment. So we were able to, you know, push a lot of my training out there to people that were introduced to it for the first time and did very well. So pandemic was interesting because we had to learn how to be a little more versatile with a lot of stuff.

People, even if you couldn't get equipment, there was a limited supply of it, etc. So I think inherently people were kind of taking back a lot of their power. They saw how vulnerable they were as far as training and overall health and wellness into COVID. But I think as we come out of COVID, a lot of people, that's why I think I'm noticing now post-COVID, there's a lot more focus on wellness, mental health, recovery, you know, just feeling healthy.

I think less of it is before we went in everyone and I trained as hard as you possibly could, you know, get smashed, etc. But now people are more cognizant of, hey, I want to feel better. And I also want to be do something that's sustainable that I can do on my own. And even if I'm traveling or if I don't have access to any type of gym resources. Did the Center app do well during that time? Yeah, it did very well.

You know, most recently, they got acquired by a private equity group, Jeff Best's brother's company, but that it was great. I mean, it was a great run. They're still going and they're going in now more of a trajectory of like equipment and that sort of thing and supporting that. But, you know, I always wish the best to everyone over there on Center and they're great people. And it was it was fun. You know, we developed a lot of things together and it was good for everybody.

So yeah, I wish you nothing but the best. I just watched Limitless with Chris Hemsworth and I don't know if you've seen it yet, but I was amazed. Ross Edgeley is someone I want to get on the show. That guy's just a mad scientist with his own body. But the one that really blew me away, to be honest, was episode six and it was about mortality, aging and death. And I don't know if you saw that one, but I was truly moved.

Like I watched most of it one night, went to bed, had super weird dreams, probably because of the way my mind was, finished it off in the morning. And it was just like, this is a conversation that we never have. Like the acceptance of aging, the beauty of being these certain ages and this even this death meditation that this death doula had, which I've never heard of that either, but I thought he did a phenomenal job with that series. I really did. It was all real too.

I mean, I think everyone has their own experience with it. Chris, you know, he did a great job on that doc. And you know, Ross is just a weapon. That guy's a freak. So nothing but respect for Ross. And of course, Chris, you know, he always says great, great on camera. He's nice to look at. So. His bloody hair was perfect. He did like firefighter training and, you know, ice diving, all kinds of stuff. And he still looked like his makeup and hair was done perfectly every time.

So it's just it's it's upsetting. No, but he he does a great job. And but yeah, as far as the aging process, too, I think all of us, as we get older, we're starting to, you know, see that, you know, we're kind of going down the course and we're no longer at the beginning of the race anymore. So it kind of opens your eyes to perspectives change and things happen, which inevitably helps with everybody. But I think there's ways to kind of address it, the quality of your aging.

I think that's the thing. You can never stop aging, but you can you can enhance the quality of of getting older. And a lot of that, too, is making sure that you're putting in the work to get it done. You have to be more consistent as you get older.

I think consistency has a stronger pillar when you get older than maybe when you're younger, you can get away with, you know, not not to mean it's consistent with things, et cetera, but sometimes inherently it builds bad habits that then, you know, carry on to when you're when it counts more.

So what do you see as far as the many athletes that you coach, but especially the first responders with the shift in the pillars to forge longevity and someone who gets the ass kicked every third day for 10, 20, 30 years? Because for me personally, at 49, almost 50, I've shifted really to mobility. I realize now that I've got the motor, I've got about as much strength as I'm going to have.

I'm not looking to be super strong, but it's mobility that limits a lot of my strength, a lot of my create some inefficiencies, therefore fatigue. So with the first responders that you work with, how do you shift the way you view and coach the 40, 50 year old first responders? Yeah, it's different, right? Because every category, the demographic is different.

If you're dealing with kids that are getting into the academy or young firefighters, and I'm just dealing fire specific or if you're dealing with, you know, guys who've been on five to five to 10 guys and the guys that are 10 to 15 and over. So I notice, you know, a lot of them are hard charging still when they're younger and they want to lift. And I think that's great. A lot of the older guys, you still lift.

But I think incorporating aspects of cognitive training, you know, neuro neuro training, resilience training, along with the mobility is really key because I think what we're seeing is a lot of firefighters are struggling still with the mental health, mental health. That's with law enforcement, with military, etc. But mental health is still a massive issue across the board with everything.

And so I think doing our best to make sure that the guys keep the spear sharpened is always key as that starts to decline, the guys start to feel it. Also, their perspective and their mindset starts to change and they start to get hard on themselves. They're not as resilient when it comes to, you know, PTSD issues or issues with things that they experience outside of that, too.

I'm noticing that, you know, guys for a long time and I'm again talking specifically about fire, but their circadian rhythms are all screwed up because they're, you know, your sleep patterns are all, you know, irregular and disrupted. They're exposed to so many carcinogens when you're in fire service. So there's all these things that are they're faced with.

Right. So I think that's another reason why the firefighter community has really been open to the wellness perspective, putting in protocols in place to, of course, get them in optimal neuro, mental, physical shape, but also overall health and wellness. So they're doing things like, you know, they're doing the saunas, the infrared saunas, they're doing the plunges, they're doing all those things. So I think it's key. The thing is long overdue.

It's such a the first respondent community, fire, police, military. I mean, they do so much and they're the unsung heroes, right. They've been doing it for so long and no one's really addressed any aspects of, you know, their training and improving their training, improving their recovery, etc. So that's always been my passion. Kind of will get to me up in the morning for work to kind of make sure I do things that probably opening eyes, opening the door to those guys to get the best of the best.

I'm optimistically seeing the beginning of a paradigm shift when it comes to the work week that we should have nationally in the first responder profession, especially Southern California where you're based. I mean, Anaheim was where I was for a few years. You know, their tempo of running calls is similar to, you know, Florida, where they're basically running all but 24 hours a day.

And what we're starting to see here now is a realization that the way that we're working people, you know, the 56 hour work week, whether it's 24 on 48 off or the California version, which I work one on one off four times and then a four or six is just murdering our first responders.

And so, you know, now they're starting to finally see, you know, the financial cost of that, the overtime, the workman's comp, the, you know, the medical retirements, line of duty deaths, the lawsuits attributed to us not being able to focus properly. And so there's a shift 24 72, which is a 42 hour work week.

So the same as a civilian, even though we're waking up and saving lives for a job that the kind of dominoes are starting to fall here now and departments are going towards it and therefore other departments are realizing, oh, if we don't change the way we do this, there's already a hiring crisis. We're not going to be able to get anyone because this is a better working environment. There's more rest and recovery built in to keep their first responders healthier.

But I haven't really heard any murmurs in California. So Anaheim, for example, I've always raved about that department, but their schedule is terrible still. So I'm hoping that we'll start to see that shift over to the West coast instead of this conversation of 48 96, which is insanity to actually look at the actual work week and see it shrink, which would then have a huge amount of benefits mentally, physically and economically. Yeah. I think it's, it's all about changing the culture, right?

I mean, here in talking about Anaheim, Anaheim is a department that I'll be working with in 24 more closely with my training recovery protocols. But I think the administration brass are much more open to it now because it's like anything else to changing the guards, right? A lot of new chiefs come in, a lot of new perspectives. HR has a different mindset and paradigm. And so everyone's looking at it. I think everyone understands the stress that they have to deal with.

But they've never really addressed, you know, how the old school firefighter, like for fire firefighters, it's like, just suck it up. You don't talk about it. You just do it. You work, you're tired. You just do it anyway. But I think people are now understanding that that that actually puts more people at risk than anything. People are like, God, it's just hard on the fire. But now it's hard.

It's actually not smart for the community that they serve because now you're putting people out there that are not on the top of their game and it's not their fault. They just haven't gotten up sleep or they've been working too many hours or those sort of things. And a lot of it I know is that they're trying to attract the right type of new recruits to come in. The guys who are on the department definitely want to try to stay healthy and be smart with themselves.

And they're more open to all these new modalities that we have. I think a lot of it is how it's presented. So trying to present it in such a way that they see the benefit. And some of the old dogs that have been in there for 20 plus years, you know, they're not really keen on going in and doing a hard wad at the train. But you can kind of get them to move. Mobility work, anything that's going to mitigate injury or pain, pain management, etc. or help them sleep better and those kind of things.

They're very open to. So again, like for us, I think it's a comprehensive approach. You want to make sure that you're providing them top of the line training protocols to make sure we push the throttle so that the gas tank is big. But at the same time, you got to make sure that you can sustain that for a long career in whatever first responder service you're doing. In order to do that, you have to teach them young. So everyone's, I think the mindset is teach them young.

The old dogs will try our best to provide them with the things that they need. But in order to change the culture, you have to start at the bottom. Absolutely. And when you started working at Anaheim and some of the other areas, departments in the area was quite a while ago now. Since then, we've seen an increasing recruitment crisis. And I think partly it's because to be completely honest, people now have access to so much information. They go, oh, what's it like to be a firefighter?

And they see 56 hour work weeks and mandatory overtime. And they're like, oh, UPS is almost hiring. I think I'll go there instead. So we have to change the environment to get these people back lining up outside our doors. But I've heard a kind of varying thing. The pool is definitely getting smaller. One of the guests I just had on, Rob, he was talking about from the eligibility for military service, I think it was like an entry level for 17 years old to 23. I think he said 24.

Only 23% of that age category is physically able to qualify for military selection. So obviously that mirrors then fire and police. But I've had people say the ones that we're getting more often than not, the ones that are fit are really fit these days. And I'm sure it's CrossFit and your work and Spartan races and all these things. What are you seeing? I mean, you've got like a 10 plus year now perspective on these young recruits that come into fire schools and fire departments.

Have you seen any trends at all? It's interesting because what you're talking about how people are, as far as the recruitment pool is shrinking, I think what's happening to you is you face the issue from the department standpoint, looking at it from their perspective, that you can't lower the bar, right?

If you lower the bar, just so that people can get the right cadets in, whether it be fire, whether it be law enforcement or even in the military, you run the risk of equality of performance and equality and character of those that you bring in are not going to be what you require. And so a lot of them now are trying to focus more on academies to prep these kids, the ones that are ready and ready to go. Because what happens is going into an academy, these kids are not prepped at all.

They may have their educational components pieced out, but mentally they really don't understand the importance of resilience. They don't understand the importance of what's expected of them and what it's about. So over the course of the last 10 years, I know that I've seen more of the focus shifting into the younger ones, the caddy, because I think they always find that it's a struggle to bring the guys that have been on 10 plus years to have them turn around and try something new.

They tend to want to, as you know, they want to do it themselves. They'll figure it out themselves. They all have a preference, but to change the culture, I think a lot of the departments understand that they got to start from when they get in. Because look, the pool that they're bringing them in is, and I've seen some of these academy classes, I've gone and participated in some of them. And I just noticed a lot of kids want to be a firefighter, want to be a law enforcement officer.

The idea of it is great to them, but they're not mentally prepared. It's usually the mental preparedness is not there. And because if you're not physically ready for it, then you weren't mentally prepared. Because mentally prepared is getting yourself a physical condition in order to do your very best. And I think it's frustrating for a lot of the departments. But I also see that there's a differential. So like what happens is there's a lot that are super fit, right?

And the ones that are not, there's not that middle. There used to be kind of a, you had the ones that are, shouldn't be there, the ones that kind of maybe can make it and the ones that are just weapons that are, you know, were born to do it. You still have the born do it and the ones can't make it, but the middle ground is not a lot because they just, if it gets too challenging, that's the concern.

The thing that I have, and I've talked to a lot of my friends about it, not even just in first responder community, but the generation, the younger generation and trying to build resilience, right? They all have, they have motivation, they have drive. A lot of them have discipline, but they don't have consistency and they don't have resilience. So it's one thing they're like, I'll show up every day, I'll do the work.

But if they fall down and they fail, it's very hard to get them back up to go after again. And as you know, in the first responder genre, that's just an everyday thing. You just get, you're going to, you're going to fuck up a lot. And if you do, you got to make sure you cover your ass and get your ass back up. You get your ass chewed out, go take it personal, you got to suck it up. You got to go and you got to do what you got to do. And so I think that's the concerning thing.

And it's a challenge that it hasn't gone away. If anything, it's become more prevalent with all the departments across the country that I work with is the guys. Oh gosh, you just got to find the right, the right young ones. The young ones will bring them up and they can lead, but they're looking really now for leaders, right? Because they need someone to kind of lead the charge because they can't babysit, babysit the officers or the firefighters on a daily basis.

So hopefully if we start to continue to not only educate them on a, you know, from the start and also teach them the importance of consistency and resilience, hopefully we'll start to consistently see the turn. But we haven't, I still haven't seen a significant turn on the quarter. It's just kind of going down that road where everyone's like, how do we do it? But you know, it's, it's, it's a challenge. It's definitely a challenge.

When you were talking about getting knocked down, when I went to Anaheim from Florida, I was taught the East coast way and in California, when it comes to truck company operations and ladders, it is night and day. There is no laying the ladder down and walking it up on an academy. Now you've got to pick that thing up, throw it on your shoulder, get up, move it, carry saws and all kinds of stuff.

And so my learning curve was like that, but it was like that, but it was actually like this, you know, and it's, it's exactly that you've got to have the resilience because you are going to get chewed out. And when you're Jack of all trades, master of none, even when you got 30 years on, you're still going to screw up on the fire ground. You know, I know I only had 14 and I did constantly. Now you learn from it and you try not to do it again, but yeah, it's interesting.

You say resilience, cause it's absolutely right. You've got to have the humility firstly for preparation. I mean, I did all kinds of stuff before, you know, when I was in the academy and then through all my departments, but also understand that you're just going to get shit wrong. And sometimes you're going to get it right. And some instructor who's a fucking idiot told you the wrong way and you did it the way they said, and then you get chewed out for, you know what I mean?

So you can't have that, that kind of fragile paper thin skin either. You've got to have that resilience. So it's interesting the way you say that, you know, the more stress of a generation, the more they could take stuff on the chin. And it doesn't mean that there aren't some incredibly tough, resilient people of this younger generation, but we've just birthed them into this super, super comfortable environment. And in one way that's a detriment, especially if they're looking to work in uniform.

Yeah, I think it's, you know, what we have to try to do is, is, is kind of hold their hand through teaching them how to process it. I think that's the thing. I don't think that it's, that people ask her, are they all weak? They're not weak. They just haven't been taught what they need to do. And that's why I'm always preaching so much. When I, when I talk to these academies about discipline, it starts with discipline, right? Most of these kids have a purpose.

If you don't have a purpose to be a first responder, you're going to struggle because there's going to be times you're like, why the hell am I doing this? And then you end up falling off. So you have to have the purpose. That's that GPS we always talk about, but teaching these kids discipline on doing it on a daily basis and sustaining that over time with consistency helps to kind of give them at least an anchor or a foundation for that resilience.

I mean, inherently that's why people have fallen in love with plunging, right? One of the, the issue with cold plunge that people do, and I've worked with plunge for so long now, but it's not fun, right? You don't want to do it, but unfortunately most people just do what they want to do before they do what they have to do. So it's always one twos before for half twos. And unfortunately that's just not a recipe for success. That's a recipe for failure.

So changing that perspective and paradigm has been a challenge within, you know, not only the first one, a community, but across the board. So you know, when I speak to the different chiefs about what would be the key to it, should we get the guys in better condition? Should we do just better neuro training? Yes, all above, you know, but how do you change attitude? You have to change attitude by teaching resilience and teaching them that they can overcome things they don't want to do.

Teach them to get back up after they fail. Those are things that you need to teach, right? You can't just like, oh, they'll learn it through the process. They won't because they, you know, sift rate about it or they think about it and they, they process it incorrectly. And then you find out that they have incorrect processing about challenges or failure and that causes issues down the road.

So I always, I'm a huge proponent that I think what we need to do is try to focus on teaching these kids and putting them in situations that are uncomfortable. Putting them in situations of failure so that they can overcome it because if we don't, when they're out there and they fail for real, you haven't taught them how to recover from that, right? We teach them how to succeed. We celebrate success. We celebrate doing it right.

But we never celebrate the fact of teaching those how to do something when you fail or you do it incorrectly. And I think that has, there has to be enough time spent on that because if you don't, then what do you expect when they, when they process incorrectly, they do something wrong. So I think if I had to change one thing, that's one thing I would try to preach to, to the chiefs across the, across the country.

Well speaking of doing things you don't want to do, I trained with you in Irvine a few years ago and it was up to you. I couldn't walk for days after that. Just let me know the, the, you know, plyometrics that we were doing and all the groundwork. So it was, it was amazing. It was amazing. And I see you do the RFT stuff. It's so pertinent to what we do, especially when we are in a burn building. Like we're not taught to crawl, you know, we're not taught to be able to breathe while we crawl.

Like I see a lot of these guys on Instagram and they'll be in there, what we call a class B's, you know, with the little leather helmet, everyone make sure that, you know, you're a firefighter and they're doing their duck walk, spinning the hose and okay, that's great. That was 20 seconds of video, but now put all your shit on and now climbed, you know, 10 flights of stairs first and then put it on air and then go do your little spinny, spinny hose drill. You know what I mean?

This is, it drives me crazy cause it's for the gram, but the reality is before we even get to the fire floor and do the work, like we're at my last place, which didn't see much fire. We had a 28 story hotel right next to my station. So the elevators are out. That's 28 floors. You might have to climb with a hundred pounds of gear, which is a high rise strip before you even do anything.

So the importance of, you know, all the things that you teach and just understanding that we are tactical athletes, you can't just fob it off. Like they used to, some of the complacent people in that department, oh, we'll just take the elevator. Well, I think a few weeks after I left, they had a call in one of the hotels at Disney and I forget which one it was, but it was multiple floors and the elevators were out and it was a high angle rescue.

So they had to climb with all their rope gear, you know, multiple flights of stairs and there's probably someone or a couple of people that never even made it to the top. If I'm being completely honest. So talk to me about the evolution since, you know, I train with you and then obviously what I've seen you do with Anaheim, let's say six years ago when we did our conversation, what has been the evolution on the strength and conditioning physical side?

And then you also talked about recovery protocols to talk to me how that's evolved as well. Well, I think for RFP, everyone asks me what's the difference and the differentiating quality. People ought to see my training, my raw functional training stuff and they say, oh, is that like animal flow or is it some kind of like body weight movement? But it's all kind of based in the genesis of it is all on sequencing and sequencing of movement.

So we strategic, you know, for me anyways, I program the sequencing models based upon a variety of different things, planes of motion. Since we're not adding load to the equation, you know, we'll add, you know, a variety of planes of motion, right? We'll have speed, intensity, tempo, and a variety of different things.

So for example, if I'm having someone do a progression and they're having to remember five movements or seven movements or nine movements progressively through it, it's very challenging, but that's inherently more practical from a functional perspective. What we're finding with a lot of the firefighters or law enforcement officers or military, because you have to think while you're moving. You have to be aware of how your body's moving. You have to know what the movement is next.

You can't just go and autopilot. None of my training ever has focused on being on autopilot. I don't think there's anything wrong with that for the long distance run or something to kind of escape and just move through something. But from a tactical perspective, you need to be present. In order to be present, you had to be thinking the whole entire time. How do I move? How many reps do I do? What's the next movement? What do I have to do?

There has to be a procedural protocol processing that has to go into place. So that stays consistent with all my RFP of what I've done. But what I, you know, I use a lot of the recovery modalities, specifically I've been used cold water immersion a lot, right?

So I know a lot of people have seen guys like Huberman and Brekka talk about the recovery aspects and I think it's phenomenal that people utilize it for, you know, the dopamine release and all the advantages, the inflammatory reduction, the cortisol reductions, all these things that are really helping people from a wellness perspective.

But from a tactical resilience perspective, I usually keep my guys in a little bit longer because what I'm trying to do is when they get out, you get that involuntary somatic motor response, which is that shaking and you only get it for a little bit of time. It'll be like six minutes. You usually get it half the time you're in there. So if I have a guy in there for 12, I have like six minutes of magic.

So during that time, I usually try to focus on having them execute specific tasks or remember certain things because, you know, from the mind-body perspective, without nerding out too much, your mind's trying to remember, like it's trying to get warm. It's like we got to get warm. We got to get warm. But it's one of the only times involuntarily your mind and body are trying to do something else.

But if I put them a set task to do, whether that be a cognitive puzzle or whether that be maintaining correct perception and balance, maintaining their vestibular control, maintaining whatever the case may be, it's a challenge. But doing that on a consistent basis builds that resilience from your mind and body to understand, like, listen, even when I'm cold, I'm shaking, I can think. And that's the scariest thing for me.

And I've talked to this so many times with firefighters, police officers, is being in a situation, for example, with Jiu-Jitsu. And I remember Henner and Hiran were talking about it one time and their dad even talked about it is the scariest thing for a police officer is being tired and someone's on top and you can't get them off. Right. The scariest thing for a firefighter is being in a situation of fire and you can't remember what to do. Right.

And you're out of shape and you can't get out, you're too tired. And that is the scariest thing for anybody. And so for me, that resonated so deeply that I not only wanted to train them to get conditioned from a conditioning perspective, but you got to teach them the techniques to get out. Right.

But outside of that, you have to kind of what feeds those techniques to execute those techniques are all the processing that goes into play, managing all your energy systems within your body, organizing your nervous system, managing your adrenal system. And those are things that I try to focus on when we do the training. So a lot of the training modalities now utilize different aspects, we need breath work stuff, cold water immersion.

There's always an evolution in the training, always learning and adding new things to the arsenal. But I think the foundation and the baseline of everything still remains the same, which is we need to train the things that guys do. I like to train failure. I like to train guys that are doing things when the body's telling you to do one thing, try to do something else. But the thing that happens with it a lot of times, guys will power through a situation.

As you know, James, with this, I do it, I still do it sometimes. You're like, listen, you're frustrated, you don't know what's going on. So you just use power to try to power out. But sometimes you need to focus on thinking first before you do anything. But it's very, very hard unless you do it on a consistent basis. So a lot of my training is, you know, a lot of one of the reasons why, why does it always body weight? I do weight training. I do it all the time. I still do weight training.

And I didn't get to 256 just doing body weight. But the great thing why I always consisted of RFT is that I could do it on a daily basis. In order to do anything, especially with neuro function, its consistency is key. Repetition is key. So it's one of the only ways you could practice sequencing, you know, taxing at your adrenal system, but keeping your nervous system in check and thinking and cognitively functioning at a high level while you're training. Right.

So it's physically challenging, but at the same time, mentally, it's keeping you present. And that's one of the reasons why I love RFT. I think that's why it's been kind of embraced by so many departments in different genres across the country is because you can do it every day and you don't need a lot of equipment. You do it in between calls.

You can do it at firehouses, etc. But definitely the recovery protocols, resilience protocols are probably the new chapters in the book that are being interwoven into the curriculum. So it's been fun, man. I'm always learning. I'm always getting new stuff to try to add to it. If I could be labbing all day and doing research, I would, but it's definitely fun.

Well, it's an interesting concept that you're talking about with the, you know, basically the extreme discomfort and stress and then the cognitive functions because they talk about obviously the more stressed we are, the less ability we have for fire motor skills.

So for example, Trucker, which, you know, you know, the little boy that passed the cancer, when he passed, I put together a scenario in this 28 story apartment complex and I called it Trucker's Tower and Joshua and those guys, obviously I sent them the video of it. And the point was 100 pounds on our back, 28 floors up. Then we did a bunch of firefighter tasks and then you've pulled this person out and then you have to intubate. Now you've got the fine motor skills.

Conversely, we had it in that last apartment, we were going to be doing high rise training and they were going to do it on the ground floor. And I was like, you know, question, how are we simulating the high rise part? Oh, well, we'll just walk around the building a couple of times first. So this is a big disconnect.

So I love the fact that, you know, aside from throwing 100 pounds on your back and going up 28 floors, you can use the cold immersion to create stress and then get people to kind of start lasering in on, not willing is the right word, is it? But refocusing so that you're able to do some of these tasks.

So God forbid you are under a 200 pound felon or, you know, stuck in a fire and trying to figure out where the hell the door was, that you can take some breaths, you can refocus, you can widen those blinkers again and hopefully get yourself out. No, I agree. I agree. I think that, you know, we find a lot of the, you know, the departments, the HR understands that now they they're always looking at it from from the standpoint of risk, you know, the risk averse, right?

So they're like, ah, we don't want them to train like that because they can get hurt guys will claim work with cop issue on this training exercise. We don't want to do it. So for me, it's always about lowering the bar. Like what else can we utilize? That's quick. And also it has to be something there's nothing like cold water merging because I only need you in there for 10 minutes, right? 12 minutes and and I can create that stress within the body.

And the great thing about it is, you know, most people will get out of the cold plunge and they're trying to find ways to warm out and relax breath work to kind of relax the system, relax the nervous system. They're doing things to kind of just kind of help regulate themselves through it. But the thing is, with first responders, we don't have that opportunity. You know, you got to go.

You got to be able to be tip of the spear and react, react, react at a very quick, quick pace when you're under stress. So it's very hard to simulate that unless I put guys, like you said, we're going to climb these 10, 10 floors with 100 pound rock and see how you guys do it. It's not always possible. You can't always do that. It's a lot of stress and there's a lot of, you know, issue for risk of injury, et cetera.

So for me to be able to do something or put them in a cold plunge for 10 to 12 minutes and get them out and then have them execute and remember and cognitively think and find motor skills, you know, and focus on your balance and all these different things. It's amazing because I can do it quickly and I can do it safely. Right.

So at the end of the day, I think for all of us to be more functional, and I've said this so many times before, functional training is still not understood and people still don't understand. It's like battle ropes, flipping tires. That's functional. Right. But functional is like, it's all, it's all predicated on what your function is. If you're a firefighter, great. If you're an accountant, that's different functionality. Like, what do you want to try to accomplish?

What do you want to try to do? So I think for a first spotter community is that for fire specific, you need to make sure that you're prepared and ready to go at a moment's notice, be able to react and get everything in line. So you have to remember, you know, a hose protocol, a ladder protocol, you have to read a breach protocol, whatever you have to remember. You need to know how to do it when you're tired.

You need to be thinking about five or six different things at the same time you're executing it. And the only way to simulate that for me anyways, that's been successful is taking guys through movement protocols and they have to remember six movements while they go through. And within each one of those movements, there's different variations. Tempos could be variants. There could be a tempo variance. There could be a rep variance.

There could be a plane of motion variance or whatever the variance is. They have to remember a lot of different things. But if you train like that every single day, then inherently you're going to get stronger when you have to execute those tasks on the job on different calls. So I love doing it. I love teaching the guys all that stuff, but I'm finding a lot more departments are open and excited about, you know, kind of bringing that protocol in.

There's a phrase, if a tree fell in the woods and no one saw it, did it really fall? And I feel like that's been applied now to ice baths. If you took an ice bath, you didn't film it and put it on Instagram, did it really happen? Because all I see on my feet now are these, and it's this one upmanship. Now someone's chipping through four inches of ice to get in their cold punch and there's none of the gasp reflex. They're always just like, this doesn't even bother me. Bro, it's always the case.

And so, I mean, for me, I'm always looking at a different thing. But people usually get in the ice bath and the focus is when they get out, okay, they did the task and now they get out and like, let's try to warm out. Let me try to regulate the body to feel better. I got my dopamine release in the first 90 seconds. I'm good. I'm feeling great. And that's beautiful. I think it's phenomenal.

But for me to execute from a tactical functional perspective, I got to get you to the point when you get out and don't let you warm out. Don't let you do breath work. Don't let you do any type of regulation and let's see how you perform once that motor response starts to kick in. And when that kicks in, then I know, okay, now we're going to do this.

I'm going to tell you right now, this is the six things we're going to accomplish right now while you're maintaining balance and we're going to get it go. And you see the struggle because all they can think about is I'm cold. And until they can get warmed out, which will happen in like 10, 15 minutes, is that they see that they need to be able to key in and focus in. For me, in order to replicate that on the job stress, it's very hard, right? Without putting guys in a bad situation.

So it's fun, man. It's fun to see the guys because you see the guys that need to work on a few things and you'll see the weapons that are like no matter how cool they are, they will execute the task. When I think of the videos I've seen with you at Northnet with Anaheim and whoever the other departments were, it's not blocks of ice floating there. You're not cracking the top. And there seems to be a range of therapeutic dose from the temperatures.

Now if you're in for 12 minutes, what is the temperature range you're trying to get these firefighters in in the water? It all depends. I mean, I think for me, I mean, everyone will talk about plunging is cold water immersion is all a personal basis. If you're at 50 degrees, you're fine. But if you're at 45, you're fine. I think it's all based upon what you're trying to accomplish and what you're trying to do. When you deal with the firefighters, it's so much of this.

They're so competitive and so one up, one up. So if a firefighter goes in and it's at 39 degrees, then the next guy that goes in will grab a bucket of ice and throw it in and go, let me get in. I'll get in now. It's this whole thing. Then the guy that just went in wants to go in. It's that whole thing. So if anything, you have to manage them, try to go too extreme. But I think as long as you're, you know, for me, I keep it at 39. But for me, that's what works for me.

You know, I think for the resilience stuff, I think you need to be in the low 40s at least. For recovery, if you're just going in for a daily plunge for kind of overall wellness, I mean, go with whatever temperature. I think they've said now, the studies have said like 50 degrees and under, you're okay. But for me, for the resilience, because at 50 degrees, you get out, that warm out isn't really bad. It's kind of just like you're cold, but you're okay.

I need to get them cold because I need to be able to get them out and see when the body's trying to warm itself out is when I can teach them some of the execute some of the tasks. But it's interesting, man, because when you do that, these guys later on, they're starting to go, man, we were on a call. Like you know, it was there was a million things going on, but they were able to focus. So I just want to keep them safe. I mean, efficiency is key, but safety is even more important.

I want to make sure these guys stay safe and they can execute their assignments on the highest level of efficiency. In order to do that, we got to train you that way. We'll just stand on the uniform personnel. I'd say probably the unsung heroes of first response are the lifeguards, you know, especially Hawaii, California, New Jersey. So what are you doing differently with that population? So I know you work closely with them as well. You know, it's interesting with lifeguards.

It's much more about them being able to think while they're in the water, you know, whether on the land, it's they have that down on the sand work we used to do and all that, that sort of thing. But they have their a lot of vestibular work is probably what I focus on most with lifeguards. And that's just that inner your balance, because that vertigo is something that's scary when you're in water and choppy water.

If you lose your kind of your way and you get that vertigo kick in, it can be very dangerous. You can get taken out. Things are happening at a very fast click. So, you know, for example, firefighters, I do a lot of proceptive work, a lot of balance training, but for lifeguards, we do a lot of vestibular work. So I'll do different training protocol in the water on the sand, but stimulating them, you know, stimulating that vertigo.

And again, being able to see if they can execute while that vertigo is activated. So a lot of guys make you just start making us feel like shit, man, and then just fucking kick her ass out. I go, no, it's not that we're just trying to simulate some stuff. So when we spoke last, I remember there was one, I forget, was it XT? It was the Kevlar, you know, wallpoles and all those. You seem to constantly be diving into new technology.

What are some of the things that last, you know, let's say two or three years that really excite you? Gosh, there's been some recent things recently in regards to training, training equipment that's come out that I've talked and met with some of these different companies that I thought were very interesting. I'm working with a company called Aon right now, which they do fractional loading. So it's like micro fractional loading of weight, weight vest. So it's very comfortable.

It's not heavy work in a sense. It's like super, super heavy, but it's just just enough where you're carrying around the whole entire day. It's great for regulations. You know, I work a lot with the, you know, with kids and the children's hospitals and the autism community. So sensory processing and regulation is such a massive issue that we all struggle with. So outside of just the physiological benefits, the neuro benefits are huge. So that's been something I've been playing with.

I joined their team with Aon. There's another company too that I just got introduced called Catalyst, which is fascinating. Catalyst, it's like the electric, it's the EMS, that stem electromagnetic stem, but it's a customized suit. So you can do body weight movements and they can stimulate healthy tissue while you're moving. So it's literally like the EMS works while you're doing body weight, which is great for me because that's what I do. So there's always new technologies that are coming out.

I mean, there's a lot of traditional equipment that I have. I'm going to have a ton of equipment at my place that I use. But you know, and then also with 511 Tactical, I'm with 511. So we're doing a lot of exciting things there with new equipment. That's more from a tactical perspective. But yeah, for me, I've seen a lot more of the equipment that I've been working with is a lot more focused on resilience and recovery outside of just trying to lift heavier weight and that sort of thing.

So not that there's anything wrong with that. I think that's good. There's definitely need for strength training still in all those aspects. But I think what we're trying to show people is how do we get guys to be consistent? You're going to do weight training heavy. Can you do it consistently without injury? It's for me, everything comes back. It's just one. If there was a massive pillar I'm sitting on, always it's consistency.

So it's like if you're going to lift heavy, you're going to do a lot of weight, be consistent with it. If you're doing cardio, be consistent with it. You're going to run, run consistently. So I think that's what I want to teach. If that's like a legacy that I can try to carry on even with my kids or with anyone I work with is be consistent. If you're going to do it, just don't do it sparingly or sporadically, do it consistently.

So in order to do that, for me, sometimes it's changing different modalities and teaching people different things. But yeah, there's a lot of fun stuff coming up, brother. There's a lot of new equipment coming out soon. Well, you said 511, they've been my ride or die sponsor for a long time. We kind of took a pause. 2023 is obviously rough financially for a lot of companies post COVID. And I believe they're coming back on again, beginning of the year.

But I mean, I literally went all these trips around the world. Every single time my 511 backpack and suitcase came with me, the kind of roll on tactical one that they have. I wear their clothes and wearing their shorts. 511, there you go, wearing it right now. So you know, I swear by them. I think they're amazing. I've got some of their exercise equipment, the sandbags too. So talk to me about what is coming when it comes to the fusion with 511 and what you're doing.

Eric Katzenberg, those guys would love you, brother. They would love 511, brother. No, there's a lot. I think they're trying to redefine, even them, they're trying to redefine what tactical is. So a lot of people for a long time just associate being tactical as like you beat an operator, right?

Firearms training, weapons training, you know, whatever the case may be, a lot of it is just understanding and redefining tactical because there's people that aren't necessarily a first spot of community that want to be tactical. How do you do that? You know, their mantra is always be ready. Just like they love my mantra, I've always can always be ready. But there's some new equipment coming out.

We're doing some new protocols that they want me to design, some designing new training protocols with their kettlebells, their weight bets, their sandbags and a variety of different things. I think they want people to understand how to use it. And again, on a consistent basis, consistency is key. So I think that's been the agenda for them. They're the process of deciding I'm getting my own shoe, which is going to be awesome. So we're designing a shoe with 511 in the works right now.

But yeah, a lot of fun things. I mean, 511 is exploding. It's kind of like the Nike of the first responder space, right? It's like kind of our brand that everyone loves and knows about. So I'm very close with the team over there, but there's a lot of new training protocols are coming out that they want to explore. Also going into stuff where we work with not only different genres of first responders, but also hunting, fishing, all the other stuff, the outdoor stuff that they do.

How do we become better at it? How do we become more effective at it? And again, a lot of that is teaching guys just new protocols that they can do when they're out, when they're outside. And most of the guys that wear 511 stuff will also train outdoors. So a lot of the training that we're going to be doing is outdoor training utilizing because their equipment is legit. You know, their sandbags and kettlebells, their kettle sandbags, everything is legit.

But yeah, so exciting new things coming for 24 for sure. Beautiful. Yeah. I mean, even their stuff for the civilian side, their jeans and some of the other things, the shoes for me, it's like I did Muay Thai for a long time as a weekend warrior, not a firefighter. And then Jiu Jitsu and strength training and you're a firefighter and you're a paramedic. But if you're wearing shitty clothes, can you actually rescue when you're off duty? So I'm not thinking like a rescue Randy.

I'm not wearing freaking BDUs everywhere I go. But if someone attacks my child or my wife, am I wearing stuff that allow me to fight the way I want to fight or run or whatever it is that we've got to do? So what I found with their stuff is, of course, it's not a high street fashion store. So depending on what you're looking for, but for basic jeans and shirts and t-shirts and hoodies, it's just it's good.

I mean, I'm wearing stuff that they gave me when I first, you know, was sponsored by them four plus years ago. And it's just, you know, I've never had an issue where I'm like, oh, man, these boots are too heavy or I can't climb this fence because of these jeans. You know, if I'm suddenly spontaneously start playing with my kids, I don't have to think about changing first. And I think that's a real really important thing because most street wear isn't.

It's funny though, James, I like they're like I wanted to go to retail stores and do they have everything jackets, hoodies, shirts, sweaters, training gear, equipment? I mean, everything, flashlights, knives, everything, dude, bags. It's everything you can think of. They have there. So and it's all designed into the office of like trying to be tactical and have everything ready. So I think, yeah, I definitely have a huge I mean, I'm a five, 11 guy. So I will always wear the flag.

But yeah, there's some exciting things coming in for 24. It's going to be it's going to be a big year for them. Brilliant. Well, another thing that I haven't actually tried yet, we've just got one in the gym, my gym owner bought one, but I know I need it. But I wanted to get your perspective because I saw you doing some some work with it. Talk to me about the Iron Neck through your eyes. And Iron Neck's great. I know those guys really well. And dude, I use that Iron Neck every day.

It's been fun, man, because like, you know, like for me, I always thought I had a pretty strong neck. But when I first started utilizing the Iron Neck, I was like, man, it's not as strong as I thought it was because, you know, like with neck training, you just do it kind of this motion. You're never really doing that 360 return. You're not turning left or right. 180 returns, 360 turns, all these things that you're doing.

And when I started doing it consistently on a consistent basis, man, it made a massive difference, massive difference. And it's the great thing about it is because I have so many things I'm doing during my training protocols, I have to be quick. I can't be doing that for 40 minutes. But you know, 10, 15 minutes of Iron Neck a day, it's massive. I initially heard about them through Rogan. And then I went and then I met them and then they participated in some of the fire events we had.

And fire guys love them. But yeah, it's the product. Their 3.0, their new 3.0 Iron Neck is fucking amazing, dude. I think I use it all the time. I'm running out of bands. So I use I just you know me, I always keep I just keep doing it daily. So my neck keeps getting stronger. But but outside of that, yeah, it's it's it's phenomenal. I love it.

I got to connect with them because when I look at it, obviously Jiu Jitsu, you know, no brainer, but also the tactical space, we're all wearing helmets and everything from firefighters to pilots. We're all getting this torque on our neck. So to me, it seems like it would be a phenomenal match. I'll put you in touch with with the owner. And and you can you love I'm sure he'll love to be on because they did. They're working on some fun stuff and they're training their training curriculum.

They have to support a lot of the iron neck stuff. It's incredible. They have a lot of great guys involved in that. But yeah, I'm sure they'd love to be on your podcast. Well, beautiful. Well, one person I know we've tried to connect and I'm sure it will happen eventually. But Jason Wilson, talk to me about about him. I want a legend, dude. I love his new book is amazing.

I read his book, such a great book, such a great person, just that that he's just he's all heart and everything he's doing over there in the cave and that he does. It was interesting because I finally got a chance to connect with a face to face. I've been, you know, corresponding with him for so long over the phone and the message and email. But he's like he's over there where I went over to see the Detroit Tigers when my buddy Mike Lawrence was pitching for the Tigers and we went to see him.

All of you know, all of this guy got a chance to meet all his kids. We took him to one of the Tiger games. Dude, what a great he's just he's just a great person. So he has an amazing story, an amazing perspective. And you know, he helps you be a better, better person. And one of the very few guys I know that I would grow, I would look to him for guidance on a ton of things just because he's just he's great. He's he's definitely a blessed guy.

He's his ability to articulate kind of ways in which to, you know, deal with stress, loss, anxiety. He's just amazing. So yeah, definitely. Jason Wilson. Did you connect with Jay? We did. And then it kind of fell off. So we kind of need to try again. Yeah, I'll get on again. I got a call. He's been he started plunging. We got him a plunge. So he's been plunging. So he got when I saw he's like, look, I did it. I was like, right. I was my guy. So yeah, definitely.

Jay Wilson is is yeah, you got to get out. It's a special story with that guy. You will you will reach so many people, man. You'll be so many people because he does so many great things. Well, I think what really moved me about the video that I initially saw, which was one of I think it was was his son or one of the students, I think it was his son, but he was, I think, trying to break a board and couldn't. And the way he was talking to him and he finally did.

But the you know, the underlying element was mentorship. You know, I don't know at that time what the environment was around his school, if it was, you know, a more desperate neighborhood or not. But I got the impression that it was. But this is the conversation that we need to have over and over and over again. There's so many people that point fingers and say they and it's us. It's not they.

And for me, Jason was really showing, look, you can grab a small amount of people in your community and become a mentor and change numerous, numerous lives. Yeah, he just they just did this huge rebuild of their building that they own. Beautiful. And the community that they serve, all these kids, he really treats them like they're all his boys, you know, and you can feel the love. I got a chance to meet all of them, just insanely respectful kids, great kids.

All of them, you could tell have have been mentored well through Jason and his team. But yeah, what an amazing story. You definitely definitely I'll help you do everything I can to help get make that happen for you. Beautiful. Well, I want to hit one more area and go to some closing questions again with the same lens. We go through a pandemic and I've talked about this many, many times. We had an absolute captive audience.

We had the most beautiful opportunity to finally educate the nation or in many of these countries on, you know, what food is on on bolstering local farmers, again, making organic food on, you know, putting P.E. back in schools, you know, normalizing play, pedestrianizing downtowns, you know, all these different things.

And we didn't, you know, we say we a lot of nations didn't some nations, I'm sure, you know, like Iceland and Sweden and some of those places were probably already there and didn't even need to. But England, Australia, the U.S., Canada, you know, arguably, we have a much bigger problem and it was a beautiful opportunity and we wasted it. So here we are now in twenty twenty three. If you were king for a day, how could we move?

How could we shift it back the other way and start improving our nation's physical and mental health? You know, it's hard, brother. I agree with you a million percent. There were so many things that we we missed the ball during that during that pandemic that we could have done. Right. People were kind of lost for quite a while. They were looking to find a way to address it. But for a short period of time, I think people were able to disconnect.

And a lot of people were very uncomfortable being with themselves. You know, if you notice, people didn't like it because they were used to kind of getting lost and having to get lost in things around them, but I think again, teaching people more about what why things are. That's why the education has been really important. If you notice it, even on social media and stuff, a lot more people are focused on wanting to know how to do things themselves, which is one benefit I've seen. Right.

But you have to give them the resources in which to do it, because people will fall back or whatever is easiest. They'll fall back on comfort. They'll get lazy. And it's hard because unless you have something like when you take something away from somebody, as soon as you give it back to them, they just go back to their old habits. Right. So I think in some capacity, creating more restrictions on certain things and forcing people to get out there and do more is the most important thing.

There's so many different ways we can do that, I'm sure. But probably not for me, not the most politically correct way to do it. But it's you know, I think it's just important that we get people out there and take control of their own health and wellness and then also make sure that they'll fall back into the same habits. So I think what we realized during the pandemic is a lot of us have very bad habits and they're illustrated, they're highlighted for the first time.

So we had to change, but then as soon as it was accessible again, it's like addiction. It's like the same thing to like find people that are addicted to drugs, addicted to alcohol, you know. Sobriety is important, but the only way you have sobriety is to take it away. But if you give it back and you give them the access to it again, they're going to fall right back into the same thing.

So I think it's a lot of the same principles you would deal with, you know, an addict is what we have to address with this. And it's not always going to be the most popular choices, but you have to take away certain things and force people to make that the new norm. To create the new norm, you have to sometimes eliminate different things and pull those out of the equation. But I think people don't want that. They always want the ability to have to do whatever they want.

And that's really what our culture is now, right? Do whatever you want. You know, if you don't want to go to work, don't go to work. You don't want to work hard, don't work hard. You'll be fine, you know. And it's just, it's troubling for me when I see that. So for those in my circle of influence and those that I can control, you know, for me, I would never want to be a politician or being in politics. It's just too hard. Like for me, I just try to control my circle of influence.

And most of it is just make sure that things that you're addicted to, what are the things you're addicted to? And why are you addicted to them? Because you have to take a little self-evaluation. It's too hard to do it on a mass level because people want to be forced to tell them, I'm going to take this away from you. They're like, no, I don't want, you know what I mean? You have to really look at it and go, what are you addicted to? Why are you addicted to it? Is it good or bad?

Those three things to clean up your own life, you know. Well, that underlines, I think, the other part of the conversation, because I mean, you could do a montage of your workouts and then have an overlay of all you got to do is get up at four in the morning and jump in an ice bath and then run, you know, actually don't run, crawl 10 miles and then come back and, you know, and it's you, you, you. And you just got to make decisions and it's all about discipline, but there's also environment.

The people a hundred years ago in the U S we're not acting the way that we're working that we're acting now. And they were simply human beings like we are. So we got to understand that we've got to foster this environment that encourages movement, you know, better eating, et cetera, et cetera. And you go to somewhere, you know, you could name a thousand places on planet earth where they haven't been corrupted in that way.

And they're still doing what they always did because it's just normal to them. Well, the sad thing is inactivity and fast food being delivered to your door has become normal to us. So yes, it's, it's ownership, but we've also, we have a responsibility to change the environment that we're bringing our kids into. So their choices to be healthier are easy choices. Yes. And I think that's, that's it. Like parents, parents need to take control.

That's the only thing that parents have to take control of what, what we're teaching our kids. So again, a lot of it, and that's, you know, as a parent and as you know, too, James, the parent, we, we unconsciously pass on our own habits and addictions to our kids because we do them, the kids, our kids watch us doing it. It affects our interaction with our kids and inherently just pass the tree down the line.

So the best thing you can do is if you have folks on your circle of influence, which is, could be your kids, could be your spouse, could be friends, could be your, whatever it is, but whatever your circle of influence is, you need to address it and understand that, you know, we all have, we love to call them habits, but I like to call them more addictions because it's a lot more potent. You say, what's your habit? I do this as a habit. You do that as an addiction, right?

And people don't like the word addiction because it's such a negative connotation, but it's the truth. And if you look at it as such, then you start making better habits and better choices because you understand that they're actually addictions. So if you're up getting early, you're addicted to that. Yeah, I am. And that's a good thing, right? I get up early. That's what I do. I get the better and do these different things. If I'm drinking alcohol, it's not my habit.

I just have two beers after I get off work. That's an addiction. You shouldn't, you should. It's so, I think it's, that's the conversation you have to have with ourselves individually because it's the only way that we're going to evoke any change. No one in our country wants to be told what to do. Nobody. It's inherent when you see it because of how people react to the COVID and all the restrictions. No one wants to be told. But when you're forced to do it and the only way they did it was what?

Out of fear. People are scared. So they're like, okay, fear. That's how strong fear is. Fears can actually allow you to have people tell you what to do, which is crazy because in our culture, people are like, you can't ever tell me what to do unless I'm scared. Okay. If I'm scared, okay, I'll do it. If you have a gun pointed at me, all right, I'll do what you tell me to do. And we have to focus that. You don't necessarily always have to be threatened with fear or anything like that.

If anything, your fear should be fear of passing on these addictions to your kids. It should be a fear of not living the life you could live. It's fear of being vulnerable because you're not building strength within you mentally and physically. That's where I think the messaging has to come across because we've seen what happens when we just try to blanket and say, I'm king for a day and say, we're going to do this. No one's going to listen.

You have to get them, evoke them to do it and take it on themselves and take that inventory on because one thing is a lot of people do not like to stand on their own. So if you have five friends and three or four of them are doing something, the fifth one will probably come around or they'll just fall off the friend list. And that's really what you want to do. Your circle of influence is really important.

You have to take a real look at your own life and see what you do and if it's healthy, if it's a positive thing, it's a negative thing, label it less of a habit, label it more of an addiction. And then those changes, you'll make those changes. But until that time, we're always going to have these type of things. So I think that's what, you know, you, my boys, my kids, I'm always teaching them, trying to teach them good habits, right?

So they create an addiction to exercise and addiction to eating healthy, addiction to kindness, addiction to thinking about others, addition to working hard in school, addictions. These are good addictions that if you do them over time, consistently getting back to that consistency, then what else can we do? That's what we want. And it's going to set you up for more success in life, you know, in relationships and in overall wellness.

So I think those are the things that we need to do as a culture and a community and as a country. Beautiful. Well, thank you for that. All right, closing questions then first one, I don't even have them when we talked the first time it was six years ago. Is there a book or are there books that you love to recommend? It can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated? You know, I would say James Wilson, Jaydub's book is a man, is top of the food chain for me. That book was amazing.

I actually think I have his book. So yeah, brother, this is the book Battle Cry. This book was amazing. Waging and winning the war within. Because I think, you know, when I, you know, there's a lot of books that I love to read. There's a lot of business books and leadership books that you'll find and philosophical books and philosophy and stuff. But at the end of the day is that, you know, reading and learning is important. It's important to always be a student.

But really, just like what Jason said, it's all about the battle within. If you don't take control of your own mental processing, your own physical health, and you don't take ownership of it, you can't expect anyone else to. And you can't blame anyone when things happen within your life. So it's interesting to understand that you have the power to change. And it sounds so corny and generic, but we have the ability to make the choice.

I mean, as you get older, you realize you have a limited amount of time on this earth. And what you do with it is really up to you. Because if you don't care, no one else will care either. Right? And that goes to the point where no matter how bad your day is, the sun doesn't care. It's going to come up tomorrow and shit moves on. Right? So you have to embrace it and experience and embrace every opportunity, experience that you have.

As far as book wise, I mean, this is a massive one that I've recently just finished reading. But yeah, I would just encourage people to go and find when you're reading it, have an open mind about what Jason's saying. But there's a lot of other books that I would recommend as well in regards to just educating yourself on different training. For me, anyways, from a strength condition specialist, from a someone in my field is never close yourself off to thinking you know everything you never do.

Never do. So always, always learn, be humble in your position and learn as much as you can and be thirsty. Go out there and really be hungry for knowledge and try to get up as much as you can. Brilliant. What about documentaries or movies that you love? Oh, wow. I'll chrystalize this. Yeah, Limitless. The plug for Big Dog. But yeah, that one was, it's good. I mean, there's a ton of documentaries, but Chris's one was really good, especially for a lot of guys, because it's kind of cool.

You know, Chris is hilarious to begin with, but you get a chance to see a lot of the things you want to do. But that one on mortality was massive, you know, and understand that no matter how strong you think you are, when it gets taken away, you're really vulnerable. You're really vulnerable and it gets you to appreciate when you're healthy and your things are moving okay and approach that. So you got to prepare for the end, right? You always have to prepare for the end.

Live in the now, but prepare for the end. And that's how it is. There's really nothing to talk about the past, the past, the past. You can look back and reflect, reflect on the past, live in the present and prepare for the end. Absolutely. I know they someone quoted recently. I think it was a baseball player that lived to be quite, you know, old age in the end. And he said, if I'd known I was going to live as long as I did, I would have taken better care of myself. That was kind of profound.

Yeah, it's interesting, man. We take it for granted. And like for me, I've tried to get in the best shape I possibly can. And now it's just a matter of holding it on like right. So it's not I'm not trying to get any stronger, any faster. I just try to hold on. So it's just consistent. Wake it up. And that's one of the reasons why I got it. It sounds funny.

You were like, man, you're getting into gardening and all these things that it's just like, for me, the reason why I like gardening is that it's you. It's like life, you know, you start off as a seed, you water it, you don't see anything. It grows, but you got to water it every day. You got to check it. You got to do those different things. If you're not doing it's like parenting every day, you got to show up whether you want it or not. You got to show up.

And when you show up, you got to do the best you possibly can. And it's the best way to live life because it forces you to live in the moment. Absolutely. Well, we talked about potential guests, so we'll skip that question. And we talked a lot about kind of, you know, recovery decompression. Is there anything that you've added recently that you do to decompress? Interesting. I mean, you know, I do the plunge. I'm doing my I do my.

Oh, I did Halo, too, which is it's a PMF therapy company, Halo, that I've been working with. I try to utilize that and a lot of the red light therapy. I've spent a lot more time on recovery and with my recovery and focusing on it as much as I have. And I've been I'm very fortunate and blessed to have so many different things. I mean, I have you have from this company, Oxynil, but I'm on hyperbaric chamber and the whole thing.

But the reason I do all these different things that allows me to allows me to perform at a higher level and be sharper because what I was trying to find is that not mental decline, but you would find it like when I was on calls or meetings and speaking in front of people, you just struggle with like finding the right the right things to say the right words. You forget things. And as we get older, it all happens.

But I noticed that as I start to take care of myself, make sure my supplementation is in order and my recovery, wellness, medallions are in order. I at least can, you know, hold on a little longer. Right. Absolutely. All right. Well, then for people listening, where are the best places to find you, your work and then the 511, you know, unity that you've got coming up? Yeah. I mean, for me, it hasn't changed in six years, James.

I'm not I'm not a big social media guy, but I'm my my IG handle is da underscore role query. Just search for role. I'm honest. So usually I'll pop on there. But yeah, that's the best way to follow along. I don't really have a lot of like on Facebook or Snapchat. I'm not I should be maybe I don't do those things. I don't have time for those things. So but yeah, that's the best way to find out what I'm doing. A lot of this stuff will be coming out.

I'm filming with 511 here in the next couple of weeks coming up for the new year. And yeah, a lot of that exciting stuff, a lot of my partnerships with different equipment companies, supplement companies, et cetera, will be coming out. So I'm usually pretty vocal on there, invisible on my social media, on my Instagram. So definitely check it out. Beautiful. Well, mate, I want to say thank you. It's six long years and some interesting things have happened.

But again, your your perspective and what you're doing with our community, I think is invaluable. And I just want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time again. It's sexy weapon. You got it, bro. I'll tell the 511 guys you're rocking the 511. I'm so happy.