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Melissa Mercado or go to teambuilder .com. And I'll spell that to you because it's not as you think, T -E -A -M -B -U -I -L -D -R .com. Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show Marine Combat Veteran, Tactical Medic, and the man behind Warriors Choice Foundation, Anthony Longo. Now in this conversation we discuss a host of topics, from his journey into the military, fire service
paramedicine, the U .S. compound attack, working dogs, catharsis through canine therapy and so much more now before we get to this incredible conversation as i say every week please just take a moment go to whichever app you listen to this on subscribe to the show leave feedback and leave a rating Every single five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find. And this is a free
library of well over 1 ,000 episodes now. So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women's stories so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them. So with that being said, I introduce to you... Anthony Longo Enjoy Well, Anthony, I want to start by saying two things. Firstly, thank you to our mutual friend, Patrick Burrows, for making the connection. And secondly, to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast
today. Yeah, thank you, man. I appreciate being here. This is going to be fun. I've been looking forward to it. I know we've spent some time trying to connect on this, so I'm glad we were able to do it. Absolutely. I think the last time we were supposed to, you got hit with jury duty right at the very last minute. Yeah, I did. Yeah. And I didn't know what time I was going to get out. So, yeah. No, I appreciate you being patient.
Yeah, no, I'm going to knock on wood now because I've been a citizen now for several years and I haven't been hit yet. I know I'm on the chopping block at some point. All right. Well, very first question, where on planet Earth are we finding you today? Right now, I live in Jupiter, Florida. Beautiful part of the state. Yeah, just outside of West Palm Beach, north of, yeah, pretty much North County -ish in that vicinity. So it's been beautiful. I've been here for like 20 years.
Brilliant. All right. Well, speaking of that, I'd love to start at the very beginning of your journey then. So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings. Yeah. So I was born actually in Minneapolis, Minnesota. And as far as that goes, we moved back to New York where my family was from. And, you know, from there, it was just kind of growing up in
a low middle. middle -of -the -road class family in upstate New York, Schenectady, New York, which used to be the home of GE back in the day. And my mother, she was starting off to be a travel agent and then ended up going to work for the Department of Social Services, where she was connecting low -income families with child support, or not child support, but child programs for funding. And then my father, he was... in with the county as a worker, shift supervisor for
their maintenance crew, maintenance team. Many of the towns and cities where we saw American industry leave for whatever reason, especially if we went overseas, there was a deficit. There was a void left. And a lot of times we found poverty and addiction and gangs and those kind of things starting to emerge. Was that the case
in your city? You know, you can only imagine, you know, with General Electric being a huge player in that community and watching those jobs leave, there was a huge difference in, you know, obviously traffic patterns, but, you know, what it did to the economy. So for where I went to high school, you know, I went to Scotia Glenville. I started off in Scotia and then. I moved over back to Schenectady and that's where I ended
up graduating from. So long story short, Schenectady used to be Linton High School, Linton High School, home of like Pat Riley. And, you know, so in essence, you know, once all of that happened, you know, the inner city definitely moved up into our area. So there were a lot of gangs. There were, you know, at the point where I was in high school, I mean, I think we were 2 ,500 students alone in that high school. So you can imagine just with anything. So I was kind of
grateful. I didn't grow up in like a private school. You know, I kind of had to learn the ropes and, you know, mind P's and Q's, but also have a little bit of a street mindset to navigate those groups of who to be involved with and who to stay away from. When you think about like the pushback against, you know, not sending jobs overseas or, you know. And in the argument to send jobs overseas, oh, well, then my car will be a little cheaper or my iPod will be a little
cheaper. So, yeah, but at what cost to this country? And if you look at a lot of the cities and towns that had mining, that had Detroit and some of these other places that had the motor industry, the ripple effect of saving a few dollars by exporting, I mean, is a generational issue now. Totally. Totally. And you can understand that, you know, running businesses and organizations, it's, you know, even though you're running an organization, you're still running a business
because you still need money to operate. You still have operating costs. You still have all the things that associate to that. So even a small dip in the economy, especially over even the last several years, you know, post -COVID with the recession that we were facing with inflation, you know, you could feel it through donors because
it's like not too many people could give. to charitable organizations because they were just, you know, they themselves were trying to salvage and make do with their money, which is perfectly normal and perfectly fine. Absolutely. Well, going back to school age, what were you playing
and doing as far as exercise and sport? Yeah, so in sports, I was big into baseball, loved basketball until I... obviously went to a different school where you know you're not six foot seven being able to dunk the ball and you know have handles like not gonna not gonna matter uh so then i started playing football and i got brought up as a as a sophomore started varsity um as a sophomore was one of the uh again brought up for varsity baseball as a sophomore and um just
kind of use those platforms to kind of grow into who I was, you know, essentially going to become with work ethic and, you know, the different coaches that I've had over the years, I, I contribute a lot of my drive and work ethic towards them and having those authoritarian coaches like, Hey, like get off your soapbox, like continue to push. And then, you know, actually during football, I actually tore my Leonard Labrum. which is the cartilage inside your shoulder,
protects the socket. And, you know, trying to come back and becoming a pitcher and then slowly that being taken away because I couldn't get the ball over the plate and then just having to figure out and re -identify myself as a first baseman was a challenge in itself. But, you know,
I kind of knew at that point. athletics for me were kind of coming to an end once you're at that point in your high school career where it's like all right well i'm not going to college for this because of this injury so let's face like what are we going to do what's our next steps and uh during that time you know we have this uh like pulley program where the military comes in and if you're interested you get opportunities to collaborate with them and go out and see what
they're about and kind of just slowly get indoctrinated with the culture of of what they want and um you know from there it was like you know the marine corps stuck out to me with having you know nice uniforms always you know dudes just stoic and um very just to the point and uh yeah i went out and researched and did a little bit more uh with a focus towards the Marine Corps than I did with any of the other branches of
service. Because those at that point, you know, for in my optics, they were the best of the best from a large group. And that's where I, you know, I was like, you know what, these guys are going to go off to war. They're going to do this. They're going to fight. And this is what I want for me. This is how I see myself or this is the group that I can align with. And I think it was after I graduated. I went to a prep school, a two -year school, just a community college. They have a
great baseball program. And found out quickly within the first semester, I was like, you know what? This is not for me. This is not where I want to be. This is not the life that I want to live. It's not the area I want to live in. I need something different. And I literally went down to the recruiting station and was like, hey, where do I need to sign? How long is it
going to take me? to to get out of here what's what are the next steps and that was right in 2000 2003 when i did all that so the ward already
kind of kicked off we had 9 11. um so it was it was kind of funny because the one recruit was like well trying to go through his his motions of recruiting like do you want to do your your at least 12 tabs travel this and that teamwork like which ones take out i'm like buddy what don't you understand what do i sign where where do i sign like what do i have to do and um we finally got through the process and uh i ended up leaving in february of 2004 for paris island
which is down in south like beaufort just outside of beaufort south carolina and uh it was it was yeah it was that was a trip We're just pulling the clock back a little bit. Talk to me about 9 -11, that day through your eyes. Through my eyes, 9 -11, I, you know, freshman, freshman, sophomore year. And it was like, what the fuck just happened? Like, are you kidding me? Like how, wait, what? And there was a nuclear power
plant over by us in upstate New York. So everybody was kind of worried, like, hey, what's happening here? And we were just kind of like, all right, do we go back to school? Do we not go back to school? So I ended up cutting class the last half of that day just to sit and watch and see what was happening. Because, you know, my family, my uncle was a firefighter. So I didn't know if he was going to get called in to go down there. And you can just see, you know, a city in total
chaos. like what's going on what's going on and then the collapse of the towers happened and then all of a sudden you start seeing other channels between the pentagon that popping up and seeing what the the how coordinated that attack was on u .s soil um really was just like i want to i don't want to say it wasn't like infuriating it was just kind of like that that doesn't happen here like that's no one's going to come into our house and do something like that so it's
like what's the next step? And, you know, for me, it was just obviously I had to wait a couple of years, but then I knew it's like, there was a bigger purpose for me to be like, all right, I, I can't do this. Like this doesn't, this didn't mean anything to me at that point. So which role did you find yourself filling within the Marines themselves? So when I enlisted, I actually enlisted
as a, as a radio operator. So my, my duties were what i was looking at was hey i wanted to go into the infantry in some capacity i didn't necessarily want to be directly to infantry because i wanted to have something that was transferable post post work and um you know looking at what i could do the communication field really kind of gave a little bit more of a broad picture into where i could go and um and what industry i could get involved with So went in as an infantry communications
specialist. Once I finished boot camp, went to school. I was out in 29 Palms for about three months. And, I mean, that was shocking because it's like you're rolling in at 3 a .m. and it's 120 degrees out. And you're like, wait, what? Where am I going? Like, where is this? And, you know, every day that we went, because I ended up going up there to school, it was June through
September. so i was just like every day was like a black flag day where you're not supposed to do training and it's just like our instructor was a former recon guy so he didn't care he was just like yeah okay black flag sure it is um but it was just uh it was an experience in itself to be able to automatically kind of jump into the travel from you know leaving maps going into boot camp getting done and you know there's a whole system and process that goes with that
uh finally finishing that feeling feeling confident and validated enough for myself of like, I just completed something that was, that was, it was difficult mentally, but not like physically challenging as some would say, it's more of like, Hey, just forget what you know, and just readapt and apply the principles that they're trying to teach you.
And, um, I, I, I took hold of that. And uh you know next step was once we finished school we got to pick our duty station so where we wanted to go and it was either going to go artillery or infantry so i was just like well this is easy choice. So it was also nice because then I was on the East coast. So then on, you know, 96 is or 72 is when we get our time off, I could just get in a vehicle and just drive straight up.
It was probably going to be more guys from the East coast that, that I could, you know, resonate with and create new lasting friendships with. So that's kind of, that was the path and the reasoning behind me choosing to go over to two six on the East coast out of Camp Lejeune. And I checked in. I think it was like mid -September of 2004 to my unit. And so was Fallujah where you were first deployed? Have I got that right? Yeah. So we did our initial push to Fallujah
in 2000. Well, basically my 21st birthday, September 19th, 2000, 2005, I was actually in transit and, you know, with the time change and everything else like that, it was like, Hey, my birthday was spent on a back of a seven ton cramped in with a bunch of dudes cruising into Fallujah. So no Vegas for me and drinking and anything else like that. I was just like, all right, here we go. Well, I always ask these two questions to people that deployed to combat. The first
is a two -part question. The reason I ask this is when you are back home, you have a very polarized view of war. It's either kill them all, let God sort them out, or they're all baby killers. And in the middle are our men, women, arguably children that we send overseas with the flag on their shoulder to go fight for this country and protect people of that country. Regardless of the politics that sent you there, because I think we're becoming a lot more clear now as to some of the distortions
of the 9 -11 and Iraq journey. But regardless of that, was there a point where you realized there were some horrific people that did need to be taken care of? Yeah, absolutely. You know, there are bad people out there that need to be taken down. You know, there's no way around it.
involved or being with entities that are sent off to go and do that type of work so that people here in your hometown and people that you care, people that you don't know about, people who can live that life of not even being able to conceptualize what that takes to be there is the reason why I feel as though people like myself and other people who serve in communal capacities or whatever the case is um feel the need to to serve them or to to serve that purpose and some
aren't when they get there they're just like oh shit no this is not for me either so you know it's um you you generally you know for me it was like i was i was glad i was able to be put into that role and to serve alongside some amazing human beings and some not so amazing but um that's anywhere you go and it was it was just you had a mutual bond and it was between one another and you didn't want to let one guy down because you were all part of this system and a part of
that team and i think once you get to that level you're able to overcome things as a group more so than just individual thoughts because we you know we had guys who didn't believe in being there and what we were doing and you know you have those views but you're just that's the great thing about this country and and why i chose to serve it is like you have the ability to be objective in your thought ideology and where that places you so that when it's all said and
done, you were able to still hold true to your values and complete your contract and go move on and go do what you wanted to do. Well, the other side of that question that, again, we don't really hear, you know, relayed from the combat zones around the world is moments of kindness and compassion. I've had so many examples from people of all branches, from all countries. What are some moments of kindness and compassion that
you remember from that deployment? I think, you know, when it first started off, it was yeah it's like hey this is real like we're here now let's let's keep our head on a swivel do what we have to do um you know and you're you're trying to bring in these ethos to to these villages and to these people who who don't know much about anything with with what's actually happening they know their way of life and then we have ours and we're now we're we're the invaders we're
the infidels that are coming in so they're trying to protect their sovereign land You know, so you try to be hospitable in that sense to to kind of integrate with what they're doing based on your mission profile. And for us, it was like, hey, look, you know, whatever. If you have a cell phone, if they're doing this, it's the ROEs kind of set the tone for what our mission was over there. And unfortunately, you know, looking at it to a point where, you know, you have a
group of kids. who one of our buddies was throwing candy down next thing you know he's posted on august we're getting shot in the head so it goes from you trying to to have some empathy for these people to understand like you know you guys just got rolled through all right now we're back here we're we're trying to help out and assist in the capacity and then next you know incidents like that happen it changes your dynamic and it changes your focus to where it's like hey
look now now it's on now nobody cares about anything that's happening here because you you know took one of our dudes now you're going to feel the wrath of of what we have to bring and why we're here in the first place so how long did you find yourself there and you know where where were you assigned next so we were we were in country for seven months fortunately the marines only have to do seven eight months unlike the army who's stuck in certain places for like 15 months
which is just like got awful um and then you get to come home and then have to go back but um we were there for uh right up until memorial day um where we were able to come back and then after that next thing you know we're in new york
city doing fleet week in 2006. so you know we had a pretty good deployment um and following that next you know we're in new york city at ground zero at 9elec like seeing it all firsthand of four years later um of of all the work that's being done to to rebuild guys getting promoted in in sacred lands um so it's like it was just all so much to kind of to take in um but you were so proud of the service and the guys that you're around because okay hey we just got back
from a pretty good deployment and Now we're here, and this is kind of what drove us, or at least was a bookmark, an earmark of why we wanted to serve. So did you deploy again, or did you transition out after that? No, so we had one year, well, about nine months in between, we did another workup, and then we redeployed back to the same AO. So we were operating back in Fallujah again. This time it was pretty much from the beginning of 2007. right up until about October, October,
November. And then I was interested in actually transferring over to, I was going to re -enlist out there because they were handing out signing bonuses. So I was like, all right, well, you know, I want to go and be a firefighter, first responder, whatever the case is there. Let me see what's available. And because I had picked up rank and I was ended up going to be getting out as a sergeant in E5 at that time. There was no billets available for me to transfer over
into a new MOS to take on that new job. So I ended up going through the motions of, you know, listening to guys' horror stories before of like trying to get, you know, to check out of the unit and everything else like that. And I knew coming back home off leave, everybody was going to be on Libo. I was going to get extended. So I started kind of checking out while I was in Iraq and nailing down the people. It's like,
well, I know you're going to be here. I'm going to go in and, you know, listen to your sales pitch. But then it's like, no, thanks. Here you go. Can you sign my checkout sheet, please? And then when I got back, it was just quickly. I think I was home for maybe a month. And then I was checked out, enrolled in school. And I was starting my EMT classes down in Palm Beach State in January of 2008. So my EAS date wasn't
until February. So I still I was. collecting full pay, full benefits while I was on the beach, just hanging out, studying EMT classes. So it was nice. What was the difference between the first deployments of Fallujah and the second one in Iraq? I think the first one was a little more offensive for us. We didn't have as many restrictions as we did in the second half. The second half was more of like, you know, we're
here to help. reintegrate the people that are coming back in so everybody we locked up and put away in oh five oh six oh well yeah now they're gonna get out now they're gonna come back in and now it's like you have to start giving them back more leash to assist them in redeveloping and rebuilding of their of their city of their country so there was you know for us that we looked at like we're more of a target we're not a policing force we're not supposed to be there
you know marines were supposed to come in demolish it and get out you know not coming in and handing out bags of rice talking to village elders and trying to figure out what the political landscape is for the larger scale intel network that that's created from from the ground force up so that was different than you know in hindsight yeah A lot of people in the military, also in first responder professions, that transition out is very jarring. You've got that identity piece.
You've got that tribal element of being part of a cohesive unit. You've got the shared purpose. And then a lot of people will say, you know, then I was at the grocery store in Buffalo, New York. And, you know, that's when a lot of them had this kind of downward spiral. What was your transition like and did the fact that you were
going into another similar? profession make it easier for you i think that transition was for me looking back on it now i didn't understand i didn't know i didn't know what i didn't know about something it's just like hey look now this job's over guess what now you have here's your objectives here's your track i had a plan exiting and i just needed to execute on those objectives to get to my final destination in doing so i mean i started off with like 18 and a half credit
hours. Like I was also taking additional courses to supplement what I was already taking on EMT because I felt as though I was seeing all of my friends and peers through high school, graduating college, having degrees, getting set up with jobs. I felt like, I'm like, well, I didn't do anything. Like, what am I doing? Like, I got to get my shit together and hurry up and make this happen. So I can, so I can have a life. I can have a family. I can do, I can do all these
things. So I, I, you know buried myself uh in school work and you know it it became difficult because i was very um i felt like i was an outsider i felt like i had seen a lot of things that a lot of people hadn't seen and they couldn't relate to so for me to try to adjust and change my optics on real life back to now what's happening here it was, I couldn't hide it. And I think my anxiety was, you know, really through the roof. And, you know, you go to the VA, you try everything,
you know, I couldn't sleep. And that was like, hey, take Ambien. I'm like, all right, well, try this. And that didn't work. I was like, look, I don't like this. I'm waking up too foggy. And then it was, all right, well, try these, try this. And it's just like, all right, I'm done with this. I'm not going to do any of these meds. And I just tried to really just bury myself more into work and, and almost pretty much got burnt out by 2000, 2010, 2011. Like right when I finished
paramedic school, I was just, I was cashed. So it was, it was, I would say I had a difficult transition because I didn't know what I didn't know. You know, you, you separate from the military with these classes first, you know, it's called steps and taps. And they're really, it's, it's two days of steps, three days of taps. And then they basically say, Hey, fill out everything for your VA, get all this done, write down everything. And then from here, here are the resources that
are going to be available to you. Once you're out now, go find them. And then you're like, all right, well, sweet. So you're, you know, you think you're so excited to get out. And, um, you know, when you do, you're finally like, you're out in the world and like, Oh my God. Now you have to you don't account for the adjustment on the work ethic of others around you and seeing how people take their time to do things versus in the military. It's like your job is this.
Go do this. This is what you have to focus on. I think that was very difficult for me because I was like, well, why is this process? Why are all these beer like all this red tape in the middle of me getting from here to here? Let me just let's just go. So that was a transition
for sure. One of the things I didn't ask you about earlier, but this is such a kind of under -discussed element when it comes to military and first responder mental health, excuse me, is so many of us have certain things happen when you were younger that if left unaddressed contribute to our struggles once we're wearing the uniform. When you reflect back to your early life, were there any elements you think that fractured the
foundation a little bit? Absolutely. Yeah. You know, like I said, you know, grew up in low middle class. You know, we pretty much lived, I think, when I was as a kid, when I moved back to New York, we were in Section 8 housing for the most part of what it's looked at right now. And, you know, it was, you know, separated from my father or not really separated from my father, but it was like every other week that we got to see each other for a period of time until it's like.
until you're done with it. You know what I mean? It's hard to say, but once you hit a certain level of maturity, you're just kind of like, I'm done going with this volley of back and forth with different households and three different Christmases and all this other stuff where you're just like, I'm good. And then, you know, I think with just the adjustment and being alone or finding
myself involved with sports. That gave me the ability to kind of align myself with friends and the people that I would care about or have that type of communal bond or tribe to overcome adversity and bounce things off of because I was around them more so than some of my family, or I would rather have been around them more so than some of my family in those instances. Absolutely. Well, speaking of tribes, walk me through your journey into the fire service. How
was that transition into that profession? Well, the transition into that was it was not as not as not what I expected initially for me being just, you know, green coming out. I was like, hey, look, here I am. I'm ready to do this. There was a big hiring freeze for 2008. through 2009 or 2010. And, um, that's right around the time when I was going to school. So I was like, all
right, this isn't too bad. So I went to a couple of local, local departments, put in my application, got brought in and I was just straightforward. Like, Hey, this is what, this is where I've been. Here's my most trying time. Now. Um, I think at one point when I was, I actually was like, Hey, let me check out law enforcement side, maybe be a cop, do something. Almost had a panic attack inside the thing because I forgot one thing on my application that I didn't put in. And I was
just like, oh, my God. Like, wow. Like, holy shit. Like, can't believe that. So bombed that interview. And then when I got brought in for another one, I was just kind of very open. Like, hey, here's everything that the VA has given me. Here's all the things. Here's my experience. Here's a. a moment in time when I had to, you know, on the battlefield, this is what happened, this, that, and the other thing. And they're just kind of looking at me like, yeah, this is
never going to pass. Like it's never going to happen. So I ended up going on and volunteering with the department, working with a chief who kind of brought me in and understood like where I was at, what my headspace was, and really kind of gave me the opportunity to surround myself with that group and then be able to kind of learn the culture. And then from there on, it was a little, it was much easier. And at that point, I had an opportunity to go overseas and contract.
And I was just like, well, I'm either going to work here or I'm going to go over there and make, you know, what it would be working here three years to one. So the dynamics of it were. I'm going to be back in a new place where I hadn't been, where a war is still going on. I was like, all right, well, this will give me a chance to
see something different. And then that's when I was just like, all right, let me put, because I was with that department for close to three years, three and a half years, I was with them. And then left there to go overseas. And I was overseas for like the next eight years. And it was one of the best jobs. that I could ever have because I was finally getting paid at an acceptable rate. I was able to buy a house. I was able to
live a life. I was able to do the things that, you know, while incurring so much debt previously, going to school and just trying to figure life out, you know, I think that was one of the hard realizations of getting out of the military because everything was covered. Everything was paid. And now you have like real expenses and real budgets and things that you have to put together. And if you don't, you could, it's a slippery slope. where you can literally wake up and you're
$80 ,000, $90 ,000 in debt. And you're just like, well, how do I get out of this? So for me, it was really cool just to have the opportunity of like, all right, well, I'm a paramedic. I'm a nationally registered paramedic now. You know, they needed that skill set overseas. I had the experience in combat. You know, it wasn't. My experiences never led me to, or the PTSD that I had never led me to be cognitively impaired.
It was more of, I don't want to say guilt, but it was a lot of heavy thoughts on what could have been done differently. A moral injury side. Yeah. And being over there at that time, you're
around. different breeds whether they were an sf there were you know different mindsets and temperaments for the operational tempo that we were doing there as as protectees that suited me that suited us and you know it it kind of filled that void of tribe you know community and you know being well paid to to to do a job that you know you expected you've already signed the check and when it gets cashed it gets cashed but at least you're doing it in a way that you
know you can see it coming versus being here in the states you're just kind of like this is fucking chaos like what is actually happening here um so that's when i found like i really had to work on who i was and really started looking into other programs looking into psychedelics looking into um different needs of of who i was as a person um because when i i'd go overseas you know my blood pressure was i think call it you know 120 over 80 i come home like 190 over
over 100 and i'm just as as i am right now just whatever and just but quick to quick to ignite a fuse um and that wasn't good it you know it really hurt a bunch of relationships along the way for who I was versus now having more of an understanding and actually have done the work to get to the next level of where I wanted to be. Well, it's interesting going back to what you were talking about in the interviews. When I put my very first pre -app in, it was actually
down your way. It was one of those kind of conglomerates where you do one EMT test, one fire test, and they send the results to all the agencies. And Miami Beach was there. And they had a pre -app. And again, like you, I was like, oh, well, obviously, honesty is the most important thing. So, yeah, years and years ago, I tried this and this, had a great time, never lost a job. And they literally, the guy screwed it up. And I remember him just
throwing it at me. And I was like, you're disqualified. And I'm like, huh. Okay, so you have to lie to get in the American Fire Service. Got it. And then ever since then, I lied through polygraphs and all these things. And I'm not saying it to
be an arrogant dickhead. I'm saying that. Basically, all the assets that contributed to me being a good firefighter and a paramedic were completely ignored from this one little box checking bullshit, which now, by the way, those compounds are used for PTSD and we'll get into psychedelics, but MDMA and psilocybin were the only ones I'd ever done. And yeah, disqualifying. And this is what
is so broken. I've talked about this a lot. In our professions, you have the MMPI, which is that psych test with all the thousands of questions. And then the polygraph. The polygraph is a magic show. Done by some fucking tool bag that pretends to be the FBI's greatest profiler. And he gives this little speech. It's a beautiful monologue. It brought a tear to my eye. And then he does a smoke show. And then you go, no, I haven't done any of that stuff. And he goes, oh, wow,
you beat the polygraph. Congratulations. And then you have the MMPI, which is psychology world. I said, by the way, that was never meant to be used as a standalone test, certainly to verify if someone could be a first responder or not. So both of those are bullshit. So I've been saying a lot recently, why not take the money that you're
wasting on those? do a solid background check, of course, but then hire people that have had some of these things, knowing that so many of us have got shit in our past, and then give them counseling sessions. So now at the front door, Anthony Longo has the ability to start processing his early life, his time in Iraq, and then becomes an asset to, you know, aforementioned fire department.
but instead we got oh no check that box oh no no no you're going to be a liability if you can't have you negating the other 99 of your lifeline that's going to be an absolute asset as a first responder yeah yeah i mean it it's it's an account it's an accountability issue that i think a lot of the higher -ups when you get to that to that level that that they face i mean even now even even looking at what suicide rates are looking at the demographics and and what the recruiting
pools are for each of those services right it's they're not far off from one another there's some sort of emotional baggage that these individuals that we all carry bringing into the fire service that we either admit to or don't admit to um and it just i you know just falls on to you know how much is your chain of command willing to go out of their way to put their neck out there for you. And it's not going to happen when they have a cushy salary. Yeah, but it's the culture.
This is the thing. We've got to reframe that completely and stop pretending like it's only altar boys that become police officers and firefighters. Bullshit. We are people. And again, the conversation is you can have shit in your past, but if you work through it, if you find your toolbox, now that becomes an asset as a police officer, as
a firefighter. You're going to be... better you know under stress you're going to be more compassionate you're going to see yourself and some of these people are struggling in society and you will simply be there but if we've got this box check and bullshit that's how you end up with this promotional thing leaning towards all you've got to have a degree what the fuck is a degree What does that actually mean as far as being boots on the ground, good at your job? It means
nothing. So that's how disconnected we are between what we need to be doing to create great first responders and this academic box -checking bullshit that we found ourselves in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you look at the kids that just were able to go to school. They were able to complete a task, and they did another four years. It was just like, all right, great. Yeah, I've got a degree. And the only real value to that degree is that I can tell people I've got a degree.
So who the fuck is this guy? Well, he's got a degree in ex -phys. So he must know something about it. No, I learned all the stuff from coaching, from coaches, from actually coaching, from getting hurt, rehabbing injuries, not from that piece of paper that I got in a classroom. Yeah. yeah it's interesting dynamic all right we'll go into the other side so before we get to some of the things that you know you were doing in afghanistan you mentioned starting your own healing journey
and exploring this toolbox. And I think people don't realize how vast this toolbox actually is from canines and, and, and, you know, horses all the way through to psilocybin and, you know, Ibogaine and everything in between. What was that journey of healing for you? Where did you find yourself finding success with some of these modalities? Yeah. So, so for me, it started off with, you know, obviously having a great schedule, great work schedule, 105 days on 35 days off.
And, you know, being with a close -knit group you start hearing what their travel experiences are and where they're going you know parts of the world that they're finding themselves in because we're all trying to make money and we were all trying to preserve that money by staying out of our country for 330 days so we were not taxed and um you know finding those opportunities of listening to what they did on their leave block and seeing who they were when they came
back you're just kind of like wow this is like it's deep And that attracted me to being able to have that much self -awareness of the process. And it led me to start reading more books on mindfulness and just the neurocog side of what can we do to develop these things or put systems in place that help us to be better. and to improve our relationships, to improve communication. Because I think a lot of us, that's the one I think that sticks out to me the most is communication.
I think we all have this huge void in our ability to effectively communicate without feeling as though we're either having somebody tear us down or tearing somebody else down, like making it so like we're losing our own identities when that's not the case. It's just a matter of like, okay. How many times do we have to do the same thing to really understand like, hey, this is a problem. And then what can we do to change
that course? So when I started slowly, gradually getting introduced to psychedelics, I first initially started off with like microdosing and psilocybin and doing mushrooms, not in any controlled way, but just like exploring. And it was the post. session that I really felt like the squelch box and the squawk box was off. Like it was the one time where my mind was not continuing to run an ultra marathon where I was just like, Oh wow. Like I'm at peace right now with this. This is
amazing. I can actually enjoy being around people who would, who would. I would generally just have a lit fuse being around and it would help me kind of really understand what that relationship was for what it was and how I could be better for myself and restructure what I was doing to kind of fit that box. And I recognize that, Hey,
that only goes so far, right? Like there's only so many people that you're going to travel the same path before it bifurcates or it goes in another direction where it's just like, okay.
we were just meant to do this fantastic we can go this way and we're still going to be close but we don't have to be you know we're not in like a a deep relationship where we have to feel you know pissed off that well we're not friends anymore because we don't all do like the same um and and that's what it helped me kind of understand and the more that i went through and between you know psilocybin and then microdosing with lsd and the nuances between the two of those
where you know mushrooms that'll take you up and take you down you got these ebbs and flows that are you know high highs low lows and waves um where lsd was very you know kind of like hitting the the seek button where it just goes from channel to channel that's that's airing so it was a cleaner more just level -headed um therapy session for me and then it was all about the post where i was like really able to like what when i was in that space what stood out what did i have
to work on what did i have to earmark and say hey this is what's resonating with me this is what's really kind of the ember of my fire that what aggravates me how can i chip away at that and find new ways and be more productive with my own space and my healing and um which Fast forward a couple years later, you start hearing everybody doing ayahuasca. You start seeing aboga and everything else kind of coming out. Then you hear about DMT, and you're just kind of like,
oh, shit. I don't know if I need that. You're just like, whoa. And I felt as though with... with only being able to get so far, I was just like, I got to go deeper because I'm still holding on to shit. And is it, is it me or is it the people around me? What am I doing? Because I feel like I'm still sticking square peg round hole. Like this is not, this is not what I want to have. And, um, my, my first time doing five, you know, DMT, I was just like, what the fuck
was that? Like. wow like not so much the setting was my vibe because it's kind of like being you know in a in a group setting the circle everybody's around you and um i didn't know anybody there except one of my buddies who who was like hey man this is good so i was like all right i'm following your lead i'm gonna lean on you and um ended up being the my deep dive it was just like crossed over went completely went completely black really really small speck of white far
off into the distance and then i kind of popped up and i was just like after about 20 minutes of that i popped out and i was just like wow and i i you know i kicked myself in the ass now because i felt like i should have just stayed in and wrote it a little bit longer to to really kind of conceptualize and and gain more insight but i was the first time where it was just like I didn't have that blast. I blasted off, but I didn't have that, like, mental cog of hold
on, keep holding, keep holding. Like, it was gone. It was like, let go. And once I figured that out, I was able to really, I was like, wow, I'm happy for this. I'm happy about that. And then I was absolutely petrified following the
next, like. 15 sessions that we did because it was just still like i was trying to hold on and finally i went out and i i did a session by myself outside of the group and i was really able to like you know with being in nature and and having you know just taking a deep breath in and feeling the wind wash over me in unison of me you know expelling a breath i was just kind of like i was able to felt like you know those rubber band balls in the office Back in the day, it felt
like an unshackling where it's like you were, if that was all of my anxiety, it was like taking a hot razor blade and just slicing strand by strand of where my mind was and being able to navigate that and control that to then being able to come back home and falling into just new habits and making myself And learning how to love myself is really what it came down to. Not putting so much of your ego into you're a piece of shit. You didn't get this done. You
need to go harder. You need to be harder than everybody else there. You need to do this. And it's like, that's good for a certain point, but you still have to be able to look inside and still love yourself and give yourself some grace
for some of the accomplishments. and i can say that now but i still battle it every day where it's not like yeah dude you're not where you need to be you need to still go but it's not as not as extreme as what it was but it gave me hope that i was able to find something where it wasn't like i wanted to abuse this in any way because i was just like petrified to even do it again where i was just like nah i'm good like that was i got a lot of it it you know it
lasted you know, five or six months. It really lasted up until, you know, to now for a lifetime, I would say, because it gave me a lot of true value of insight. But the ability of just like feeling things that would piss you off normally, it's just like, why, why allow it to hold that real estate in your head? Why are you going to like, for what reason? And then it translated
to different relationships. And it just gave me a different sight picture set alignment of, you know, What my needs were, where I needed to be, who I needed to focus my energy on, who deserved my energy, who didn't. What relationships were just, you know, hey, that's a wash. There's no reason to hang on to this animosity towards people anymore. Where it's like, whatever, because they're not thinking about me. And if they are, so what? Big deal. So that was a huge turning
point for me. You know, even with my dog, you know, who, who I've had at that point up until, I mean, he was probably, I would say five or six years old at that point. Um, you know, I saw a vision or something of him. And then when I got home, um, from that experience, which was a whole other, you know, you're coming off five, let me have DMT. Then you got to go integrate with people. You know, it's like, dude, like, oh, fuck. Here we go. Now I'm in, you know, the
airport. And I'm just like, shit. I had to call up a buddy. I was like, hey, dude, I don't know, like, how I'm going to do this. Because I got five hours on this flight. And, like, I got to fly all the way back here. This is horrible. I definitely didn't plan correctly. So next thing you know, I'm in an aisle seat, like, just strapped in and had my hands all tucked in. I'm just like, oh, man, like, this is going to be bad. Like, I feel bad for the dude next to me. He's like,
he's just a psychopath. But when I got home, it was like, I was, I just told my mother, I was like, Hey, look, don't ask me any questions. I'm not, I don't know anything right now. But I do know that I just need, I just need a minute. I just need time. And my dog, I was just looking
at him. I was like, was that you? And for the first time, like, you know, there was an experience and connection that, you know, With back and forth to Afghanistan, coming home, there was never a like being reunited with him in a sense of from that day. Like he was literally, after I asked that question, spinning all over me in the front passenger seat, blowing his coat all over the vehicle. Was that you? That was you, wasn't it? And he's just like, he would go even
more. And I was just like, this is wild. And
we got back to the house and I literally. slept for probably two or three days after that of just trying to like all right let me walk outside let me let me reinstitute some of these um these tasks that i had planned for myself as far as my journey goes of here's what i want to do here's what i want to build on um to be able to take that in and i was just like you know i could really sense the difference of who i was and what i wanted to become and that gave me a lot
of hope of like okay it's it's going to be fine life is not that bad anymore like this is life is actually very simple people make this very hard you know it's it's just one of those things where you get that that 50 000 foot overview of like okay we're all just plugged into this system with this matrix like what are we doing how do we stop it um and it was just it was it was a really a breath of fresh air that i was able to get from that experience As I'm hearing
more and more and getting deeper into all these different healing modalities, especially when it comes to the psychedelics, the plant medicines, one thing that's now, I think, the next phase is, and I just had Kagan Gill on the show, who's a friend of mine. We went around the world together on 7X with Patrick. Yeah, great dude. And he's got this thing, I think it's called Mind Dojo.
I might have that wrong. But anyway. so you do a psychedelic journey you have these eye -opening experiences but then there's a lot of people that just oh and then six months i go do it again and his whole thing is and i'm sure the people he surrounds himself with is all right you've opened the door but now you need to work through all the things that you just found and so you have meditation and breath work and you know time in nature and you know time with animals
whatever the things are what has been your experience of that the the awakening that you had with the psychedelics versus what needs to come next Yeah, I think the, the awakening was, you know, again,
it comes down to self -love. What is the, what is the underlying thing that, that motivates you that where you're happy in your own skin, you're you're, you're at peace and you understand, and you kind of have this, this seventh sense or enhanced sixth sense of just being able to see the right people that you want to align with.
And you just. you all right i'm going this is this makes me happy i feel comfortable here or they're pushing me in a way that this is conducive to my growth um and it really just came down to what were those deficiencies how hard are you going to work on them what are the steps that you're going to put into place because like you said it's like hey yeah you can go do this six months and then six months later you're finding yourself having to go back and do it again because
did you even work on Or did you just fall back into thinking like this was going to be a one -off and I'm good, I'm solid. It takes everything away. It's no, it's, it's a lot of, you know, relationships. Like what is the toxic relationships that you find yourself in that you get involved with and that you don't want to get away. And that's communication. It's just like, there's so many things that I was able to take away from that to understand, like, I didn't want to be
involved with toxic relationships. I didn't want to be a contributing factor to that in any way. Um, you know, so there, there were some, I mean, bro, it's like a, it's, it's hard to explain like the, the, the number of lessons that were learned, um, because you still, you come back normal when it all settles. Like you're still a normal human being following that. You just learn ways of how to digest it and what you need
to digest. And, and, you know, If you're just in a shitty situation and you're just lying to yourself and you're going to continue lying to yourself because you're trying to make something work, you're not going to find yourself healing. You're always going to find yourself compromising for another individual or for another situation versus standing up for yourself and being like, hey, as much as this is going to fucking suck to have to start over, here are the potential
outcomes if I do. And here's where I'm going to be happy. So you have to weigh those out case by case. And fortunately for me, never married, no children. Most of my adult life has been spent overseas. So for me coming home, it was just always like, all right, hey, this is all fun.
This is great. But then starting the organization, coming back and working with individuals who have a lot of multi... multi -system traumas and just trauma mental mental health issues um knowing that i could bear the weight of of assisting them and helping them through their path through the dogs that's really kind of where i felt my need because it was like look here's one tool the dog is a tool it's not an end -all be -all like you know it's it's it's it can be life -changing
if you want it to be Um, but looking at a proprioceptive neurocog dog and what we were building out and how we wanted to see things happen for an individual with a TBI, brain injuries, mental, whatever the case is, it gives you that, that moment space and time of just nothing fucking matters except for this moment that you're with your dog right now, troubleshooting and problem solving and to having a, a, a hand in a purpose to what you're doing for yourself. Because it's my dog. It's
my property. It's my thing that I'm working for myself and my overall mental health. Nobody else. And it gives you that time and place of just shutting down and focusing on what your needs are. And a lot of us don't ever admit to, what do I like to do? Like, it's hard for me to say, well, I like to do this. I like to do a bunch of shit. But what can I say? Like, I really love to do and sitting down and where it's not work. It's, it's like this, whatever, man, I'm, I'm
training dogs. I'm having a great time. I'm, I'm helping people. I'm coordinating, I'm plugging holes and doing logistical stuff. Like I'm able to help people get to the next level in their life and save a couple of lives here and there where I can, or if I can in that process. And that for me was, was what I found with the dogs and, and to be able to just, you know, Think about being in a shitty relationship with your wife or just constantly fucking by just getting
yelled at all the time. Now it's like, hey, I got to take the dog outside. Hey, I'm going to take him for a ride. I'm going to go. We're going to go here. We're going to go train. You know, and I think it's for for the programming that we built. It gives that person the the ability to to take a pause in the day to go focus on themselves and to find that that meditative state. Because for some of us, meditation for me is
very hard. My flow state is chaos, I guess, in a sense where I have to have a bunch of things going because I can just naturally just move through and find the resources and solve for X where, you know, sit me down. say, hey, go to the beach. You're going to hang out here all day. I will be crawling out of my skin like, fuck, I'm sweating. It's so fucking hot. I'm getting all sandy. Like, I don't want to be here. This is terrible. Seeing everybody run around,
dogs going crazy. I'm just like, oh, God. So that's kind of, I guess, an essence of being able to identify solutions for yourself. It comes
down to self -love. What about performance? I think one of the most powerful tools when it's the naysayer, when it's the guy or woman who kind of doesn't buy into the whole mental health conversation in the fire service, for example, and say, all right, then, Rockstar, if you truly want to be the best version of yourself as a firefighter, firstly, you need to change your work week. And I know Palm Beach with Pat is, you know, they've gone to the 24 -72. So I'll
just slide that in there. The department is finally getting it. But secondly, if you want to get in the flow state, you've got to have 10 ,000 reps, you've got to have high stress, and then you've got to have a clear mind. So if you look at Delta and some of these tier one operators, they are working with all these organizations that ironically work really well with mental health, also for performance. So it's a win -win
situation. What were you seeing as far as your ability to operate as you were on this healing journey? Good question. I was able to itemize and what I needed to compartmentalize what needed attention and what didn't need attention. And for me, that was, you know, the ability of, hey,
go to the gym, go do this. go go work out um it was you know establishing new relationships it was being able to to sit and have peer support groups where you're talking to individuals who you admire, you look up to, whether it's in business, whether it's in your occupational field, whether it's in just a simple area of interest. It's diversifying that portfolio to find new tools for the toolkit that you could put into your
everyday system. It's like a software update of being able to say, oh, I learned this from this guy. Let me try this. And oh, this is working well for me. Let's continue to roll with this. I think it's like those small little victories. To be able to appreciate small victories is probably
the biggest thing that I think I learned. If I'm understanding the question correctly, I think that was where... we all kind of get lost in the sense of especially if you're running your own business if you're doing something and elon musk said it great it's like as a ceo or an executive in a higher level you're always eating glass you're never really celebrating the wins of what you do accomplish because you're always faced with the problems you're always faced with what
didn't go right how do i fix this how do i increase these different spends and whatever i have to do to where you're never really looking at The, the, the, the momentum that everybody sees of like, oh, well you helped this. Oh my God, you put this dog here. You've done this. Like we've had some, some great individuals that we were able to work with who. who have helped me grow in so many different ways. And I was just happy to be like that one speck, a part of their life
to help them change their thing. And that's created a, you know, a brotherhood in itself of always being able to have someone to reach out to and call and respect and, you know, understanding those, those different relationships and how they can, I don't want to say be transactional
to a degree, but to be able to. to have a true meaningful friendship in a way that you're it's mutually beneficial absolutely well i want to get to the dogs obviously the impact on yourself and then create a non -profit but just before we do talk to me about the us compound attack so that was in 2005 uh we had just stood up a um new team up at alvarado off of um uh at the airport in kabul and we were all out there just kind of hanging out doing whatever you know i
think we just got them playing freaking cornhole or something like that and uh it was right around 1700 maybe even like 1800 whatever um you felt this explosion go off and this was just like oh and it's like you know you're kind of like damn whoever's on that like they got fucked up like you knew that there was like there was there was like all right hey we're just waiting to see where that was and um it just so happened to be just outside of abbey gate um where this
v -bid rolled up through this alleyway and just deaded and then it was in between um two compounds one was an american compound which literally i mean you're looking at 20 foot T walls on nobody has an understanding what that is. It's think of the, the T walls on the side of the road that they put in for, for crowd control or whatever, but just add, add another, you know, 15, 15 feet onto that dusted like gone. you know, windows blown out, shipping containers that we used to
live in. Those were just dumped over, peeled over. The majority of the infrastructure inside that, I mean, it was just, like, vaporized. And then you see this, you know, this monster crater where it's, like, 15, 20 feet wide, freaking almost 10 feet deep. You're just like, fuck, okay. You see the driver who skipped off one of the other T walls that was still there and
his body was over here. And, you know, you just, you roll through, you know, and being that it was a mass CAS, you had guys that were stuck under equipment, you had things. So there was a lot of, a lot of logistics. Unfortunately, our QRF team, you know, we were, we were responsible for that type of incident if it were to happen.
So when we rolled in. set up a perimeter move in and then from there it's just a matter of like hey jumping on bodies and like hey you'd start just mass triage this person's got to go here this has got to happen here um and at that point everybody was just getting shuffled out and going right to the uh the hospital that they had at the airport um and then from that it was just the next few days um going through debris removal trying to get things set up and you know
holding perimeter holding security to make sure that that void that was just created was was protected and secured um so for the most part it was just a it was an incident that we responded to it it was um lasted all throughout the night for the next few days uh just pulling bodies and you know fortunately there were only minor injuries sustained for some of the americans there were only a few deaths on the local national side and some of the other embassies or agencies
contractors that were in that in that vicinity experienced some casualties as well but um we were able to the the people that we were able to work on we were able to get out and and that was pretty much the the sum of some of that incident That's horrendous, though. Especially triage. I haven't actually had a mass cash that size, at least. I had one in LA, but I wasn't on the
triage team. But just to have to walk around and tag people appropriately, and even if someone is circling the drain, putting a black tag on, basically, I can't imagine, especially if children are involved. I mean, that's one of the most brutal things that any kind of first responder or emergency personnel are going to have to do.
Yeah. yeah and it's like you know you you train for it because it's like you're with a bunch of capable men and women um for us our team was was predominantly uh male infused so for us it was like you know in the event even if we did get shot it's like hey man if you can walk you can move put your shit on let's go like so systematically you get it you get it down and you're so you know from experience it's like you know you're just just structured compartmentalized like hey
this you just quick look over glance like hey now this isn't this dude's got to go we got to move this guy um so yeah it was uh it was it was definitely a an interesting time i can imagine well let's get back to the dogs and i just i meant to ask that earlier so i wanted to put that in there um you have this moment where you come back now your dog's putting fur all over the car and spinning around you in circles Talk to me first about your kind of awakening when
it came to that connection with your own canine. So interestingly enough, I secured my dog four years in advance to that. So for me, I picked him out at three days old. He's like this little hamster, literally just born. Didn't even have his eyes open yet. And we started doing NeuroStem, which was, you know, adopted by the military to induce stress on an animal so that this way later on in life that that dog would easily be able to handle stress more efficiently than dogs
that don't have it. And, you know, from that point, you know, he and I were connected together. It took some time for our relationship to develop. Within that process of working him through those years, it gave me that purpose of being able to focus on myself. It gave me the interest. It gave me essentially another hobby of being able to look at and read and break down what the animal was telling me versus the everyday relationship. Hey, man, you want to go outside
and throw the ball? It's like, of course he does. but really like what were his needs too and where I was deficient as a handler to really kind of map out and look at ways of improving our relationship by being able to clear up my communication. And, you know, with that, it was, you know, understanding the reward cycle, being able to mark and maneuver and do a whole bunch of different things. And
I always try to tell, you know. individuals like guys I work with, or even some private clients, you know, what you want to focus on today is going to be looking into a kaleidoscope. It's like, oh shit, what do I got to do? Where do I start? Well, you just start small and you work your way up. You perfect one thing and then you kind of move on, but you add pressure. You're always kind of going back to that one thing.
From there, it was just it laid the groundwork of being able to be present, be mindful, be understanding and coming into that space of, OK, this is something that I can that I can resonate with. It wasn't something that was just given to me. I had to earn that relationship with my animal and obviously with the with the people around me as well. But it really just kind of brought. my ability to escape and go be with my dog, do what I wanted to do in a way to connect with other people who
had similar interests. And, you know, traveling with him for the first time, you know, we went to, went to Costa Rica. He was seven months old. So we, we did a flight from, where did we go? We went from Palm beach to the 2014 all -star game. where it was Derek Jeter's last all -star game. So I was like, I have to go. And I'm finally on leave. So we went up to Minneapolis. First time I've been home. First time I've ever, like, well, second time I've been ever in Minneapolis.
First time I've ever been there where I actually know what the hell is happening, what's going on. And, you know, I have my dog. We went to the Home Run Derby. Then we went to the all -star game. And then following that trip, we shot down to Costa Rica and spent like 14 days in Costa Rica. Well, little did I know, like my first Malinois, I didn't know any different. You know, we're getting ready, you know, having a great
time. He's running around and doing a whole bunch of, you know, bad dog shit, just having a good time. And, you know, we're getting ready to leave. Next thing you know, we have the whole house locked up downstairs. we thought everything was locked up downstairs or upstairs, went downstairs, started cleaning up, getting ready to put stuff in our rental. Next thing you know, we're outside just doing a quick, uh, quick, you know, final, final walkthrough. And next thing you know, he's,
he's opens a window. We come to find out scales, a roof hops on, on a vehicle. And it's just running around like, Hey, where are you guys going? Like, don't leave me. Like I'm here. I'm just like, what the fuck? Like, dude, do you need locked up? I don't want to lose this dog. He was running off into the jungle. And, um, No, it was just like my first time there. I was just like, okay. And then at the airport, we're delayed for eight hours. Didn't get out of the airport for like
eight hours. So we're just sitting there. I'm just like, oh my God. But it was just so refreshing to kind of have that escape and be able to have that animal there where nothing else mattered. The situation didn't affect me nearly as much because I had something that I could lean into and lean on. That was there for me as much as I was for him. And, you know, fast forward a couple years, I ended up getting another dog. And that ended up being our breeding bitch for
our program. And right as I got out, I started
the organization in 2016. didn't take it live until 2017 2018 where i did the my first litter and then that first litter was a whole learning curve of having a bunch of little malinois puppies running around and i don't know too many people who know this but they're little terrorists that straight up will ruin anything that you like they'll destroy it if you're not paying attention to them if they're quiet they're just tearing up like you have like all right where are you
um but it allowed me to really reflect on hey, you know, using the hypervigilance and all of those things that kind of equated towards PTSD and what we're thinking about, it gave me the ability to focus on my dog and it gave me something to worry about or to constructively utilize that tool I was given to place that into my animal and into the work that I was performing. So with
the puppies, it just came out. it was awesome it was just a unique experience where you know we were able to to link dogs up with some some really cool individuals and people that needed them and then that just kind of slowly progressed into into where we're at today um and tying guys in with coming in literally living with us for for up to five weeks in my own home you know learning how to cook dinners or do stuff and doing events recreational activities um that
that were interested or they were at least at one point in their life interested in and um you know to be able to give that back to them and also on top of that give back a dog that would be able to change them in their direction trajectory of life that was like something super meaningful to me um you know because as a medic you want to help somebody you want to you know you can read a person it's like all right well sick not sick that's easy go through everything
that's learned and then you just kind of map out and start tailoring dogs to you know what this person's needs are going to be where you can see deficiencies and in the dog and in the person in the handler because you have enough experience with enough dogs under your belt to know like okay this is going to drive this person or this isn't so they kind of set the tone for us absolutely i i've i've had two german shepherds now i had them growing up and then there was
a period for a long time i didn't have any then we had shih tzus with my first wife Um, which didn't, I mean, there was sweethearts, but when I had my little son, the, the kind of, uh, pack mentality became dangerous. So we ended up giving them to, um, a couple that we knew and they had them right away until they passed away, which is amazing. But so yeah, I had my first shepherd and she absolutely has been, you know, my foundation.
Cause as you hear a lot of people say, you know, even if you're deeply depressed, that dog still needs to be walked. It needs to be fed. It needs to be watered. And it gives you a purpose outside yourself. But I want to put a question to you. I've got a little three -year -old German Shepherd now. I lost my other one a couple of years ago. And she is a sweetheart. And I do a lot of walks with her. And then we do the balls and the games.
And she's, I would argue, pretty obedient. But my God, the anxiety before a walk and the anxiety in the car, the whining and the spinning around. I know it's always us that we're doing something wrong. I've tried written stuff. I've tried the dog whisperer stuff. When you look at all these people and all the right ways of doing it, all the wrong ways of doing it, when it comes to that kind of anxiety, what is the kind of common
denominator that we're missing? Because, I mean, obviously that's a barrier to that particular animal being. you know, a service dog at the moment. They can't be out in public or on a plane if they're going to be spinning around and whining for nine hours. So what are some of the issues that you see with us as far as creating some of these behaviors? I think brass tacks is anthropomorphizing
with the animal. I think it's like you give animals human traits where it's like you find a sense of like trying to give them the attention you would to a human. And it's recognizing, all right, how do I break this down? How can I reward behaviors where if I did something different to change up what was causing that anxiety or finding a way to harness that drive and make it work for me? In a constructive way, especially if it's something where it's like aggravating, where
you're like, fuck, just stop. Like, all right, come on, let's go. You know, I get it. You know, it's really being able to communicate with the dog of like, hey, let's take a step back. Let me maybe put you on place. Let's hold you here. I'm going to come up to you when you settle and you're quiet. I'm going to come closer. I'm going to give you what you want. And then you slowly
take those wins and you gradually progress. And being able to put the brakes on the dog, because a lot of people, you know, their animals are all gas and there's no brakes. So you have to be able to manage, you know, those expectations and those realities, even, even with your dog. Even our dogs have, have, you know. I don't want to say liabilities, but they have tendencies to do X, Y, and Z. So it's like, hey, you need to be cognizant of this. And this is how we work
through these problems together. But in essence, if a dog's super excited, you know, you give them the possession by working in closely once they've settled. And you have to make sure that they're clear with that. So it's like, you know, when they know that they're going for a walk, they're super excited. You have that routine
down. Maybe it's switching up the routine. Maybe it's getting away from what's already previously known to maybe doing something a little bit different to where you capture the dog off beat, but they're paying attention to you. And then now you have that capture where you can begin doing what you want to do and changing or modifying those behaviors. What about as far as rewarding what would be the animal's correct behavior? Are you using
food normally? yeah so we generally have food driven dogs um that that at least we we i like to use food driven dogs uh but if you have a ball or if you have something it's just it's making sure that the transaction um is very clear and what they're doing and um what i mean by that is like hey when they're down and say yes boom here's your ball or yes boom here's here's here's your food you know we use clickers i think clickers are easy because It's easy for me to
transfer the dog over with a clicker so that the end user knows and can understand the reward system. But I think once you have a dialed in reward system and you understand left and right lateral limitations, then that's any relationship, right? So I think you get a better product with just defining what that reward system looks like. Brilliant. Well, I appreciate that. That was
just personally for me. All right. Well, then before we talk about where, wherever you can find the nonprofit and we'll talk about some closing questions. What are some success stories that really kind of resonate with you as far
as this program so far? Oof. Man. I think the successes that we've had in being able to put out close to 46 dogs at this point, a number of medical retreats and just retreats in general, the end users of who we've been able to work with, whether it's, you know, MARSOC Marines, Navy SEALs, Green Berets, you know, whoever from the special operations community, it's just finding that they're, they're bought into themselves like you've given them the ability to have some
level of independence and that they're going to be okay and you know sometimes it doesn't work out i i had a really really close friend who took his life last year um and that shocked me because it's like we had normalized these conversations of suicide to the point where it's like dude just call me whatever come i don't give a fuck if you show up day of just come to the house and you'll be fine don't worry about anything whatever so that really rocked me um
because we thought we had that open dialogue and it's like the successes i think is knowing that you can't you can't save everybody but as long as you're helping one person at a time um and and you see the difference of how it translates them and how it impacts their lives that's been a large success, all the personal stuff, man, like been awarded for certain that, that doesn't mean that doesn't mean shit for me. Cause it's not about, you know, the, the awards, you know,
and the glory of it. Cause to me, it's like, I'd rather put myself out of business now and not have to worry about this shit so that we know that we're doing the right thing and it's being, you know, and it's effectively managed. Um, but I'm just happy that The people who we've been able to touch and the people who see our program, see what we're doing, knowing that we're not a one trick pony, knowing that it's like really it's your choice to be here because we
don't owe anybody anything. Like the reason why you're coming to us is, you know, whether it's for a dog or whether it's for, you know, some of the other services that we offer, it's just a matter of you wanting to be in that headspace to heal and being open enough to receive those lessons of whatever you might be able to take away from that to implement and strategize into
your life. so i think that's been that's probably that's that is the the probably the the the most gracious gift that i've been able to to value as you know proven performances like hey man i've worked with some bad dudes and they're good right now like they're they're they're in a position where it's like you don't have to worry about them or If you do, we have a tight network where it's, hey, man, I'm struggling. And it's just
like, all right, well, what can we do? So I think that's probably the most glory that I can take away from any of that. Because it's a shitty thing, man. It's like you're constantly dealing with, you know. that space in your head where it's like, you're not good enough. You're not this, like, what the fuck am I doing doing this? Like, I need my own help. I like, you know what I mean? It's just like, it's, it's always a back and forth. It's always moving the goalposts,
always trying to strive. Um, so I would just say that the people that we've been able to work with and the people who believe in our program and who understand it, who have reached out, would communicate, um, that's probably the base success. Beautiful. Well, where can people find it if they want to actually be part of the program or if they simply want to donate? Yeah, so if they want to find us, it's www .warriorschoice .org. You can find us on Instagram at Warriors
Choice Foundation. Social media, whatever else, our app around Facebook is at Choice Warriors. We have an event coming up next weekend, which is where I think we were first supposed to link up with the CrossFit Seadog Summer Showdown, which is a fitness competition where this will
be our third year. hosting the adaptive athlete division so it's one thing that we wanted to bring to this where it's like hey man we got dudes that have been blown up it's like no you can still compete you can still do this um where you know it's really about giving back to that to those individuals who you know hate to say it like they feel like they can't do that but it's like no you can let's let's go let's see you know every year same time but um Yeah, social
media, Instagram, you can call us, reach out. And that's pretty much if you want to get involved with us, that's how you do it. Beautiful. Well, I want to throw some quick closing questions at you if you've got time. Absolutely. So the first one I'd love to ask, is there a book or are there books that you love to recommend? It can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated. Yes. The Talent Code, I think it's by David Coyle. Um, tribe by Sebastian Younger.
Um, I do like Jocko's book. Uh, let me see what that was. The extreme ownership, that one ownership. Yeah. Yeah. That one. Yeah. I think that, yeah, that would be, those would be my top right now. There's a lot of, there's a lot to take away from that. Absolutely. Well, what about films and documentaries? Films and documentaries. I think it's just find the voice that connects with you and listen to that. Was it Dr. Hubert? The dude that came from Cali? The Huberman? Huberman,
yeah. I mean, to listen to him talk, it's great. Um, you know, find a podcast that, you know, that, that resonates, uh, around the same people in the same thought processes that you have and, and try to dive in and just, you know, continue to learn and teach yourself. Um, movies though, man, I love movies, but it's so hard to like, you know, be stunned theatrics. It's just like, um, yeah, I don't know. I'll have to get back to you on that one. I'll send them to you. Yeah,
no problem at all. All right, well, the next question, is there a person that you recommend to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders, military, and associated professions of the world? Oh, 100%. I think Pat Burrows absolutely needs to get on. I think a buddy of mine, Tom Heaton. I think another buddy of mine, Andrew Arabito. I think Morgan Stahl. I'll definitely call out Morgan again in a heartbeat. And yeah, I can definitely send you out a list,
man. There's, there's a, there's a bunch of good dudes that I've been able to surround myself with who can really kind of tell their story and, and, and give out some new light and hope is, you know, we're all going through some shit, man. It's just a matter of who resonates, who do you resonate with? A hundred percent. Yeah. And you hit on the word hope. That's it. That's the project I'm working. I'm turning my book
into a show at the moment. And I say I'm at the moment I'm beginning the process, but it's going to happen. And that's just it. You know, I think this mental health story in some areas has become a very doom and gloom kind of portrayal. And it was stuck on the word stigma, which doesn't fucking mean anything. And I think what we need is the hope, the hope of post -traumatic growth, the hope of the version of you that's done the work and is now a beacon of light for others.
Yeah. Cause you know, I think about it and it's like that, that led me to this, right? Like my, my traumatic experience of being on the battlefield, being shot at, being in a, in a really fucked up situation when it was all said and done led me to never want to be in a position where I couldn't help somebody or I couldn't perform. to give somebody the type of aid that they needed. And, you know, maybe that's my survivor's guilt of whatever. But for me, it was a reflection
of I could still function. I could still do what I wanted. I was still very clear cognitively. Now, next step was, what could I do? Because I didn't have any medical training other than, hey, put a tourniquet on it, take your pill pack, and that's it. it's total different story when a dude needs a crike and this, and you're like, what the fuck do I do? I'm in the back, like, uh, keep the red shit in the body. Okay. You
know? So I think it comes down to taking those, those moments that you think compartmentalize you or drowned you in finding the good in it and the lesson that was supposed to be taught and strategizing and how to build from that. Absolutely. All right. Well, the last question before we just kind of reiterate where to find you, what do you do to decompress? What do I do to decompress? I go out to the woods with my dog and do absolutely. I try to like get out
of cell phone range. Like I try to like put my cell phone in the microwave and just go somewhere where like, dude, I just, whether it's fishing, whether it's, you know. Going up having breakfast with Pat and his family in the morning and just, you know, with my girlfriend and his family, it's just like one of those things that go out and explore new cuisines. And I just like to do a number of things kind of like just roll
through it to find, to laugh, to cry. You know, it's one of those things that you just got to be in touch with yourself to know, hey. it's okay to break down once in a while and, and, and have that moment. And, you know, you're not a pussy for it. It's just a matter of like, dude, you know, watching a rom -com or watching some sport movie that you can resonate with. Like, Oh man, that's a tearjerker. That's fuck. All right. You know, I can see, look at the good
in humanity, you know? So it's like, you know, for me, it's just a matter of trying to whatever way I can unplug and not, and just try to focus on myself, which is. a daunting task at times I think, but, um, I, uh, yeah, that's, that's pretty much it, man. Just travel and being around people that you care about and that you love, you know, surround yourself with, with quality, high quality people for high quality outcomes. Otherwise, you know, you're, you're square peg
round hole. If it's not working, you're not going anywhere with it. Fuck you doing with it. Get rid of it. it's funny about the the stigma with crying like i've got go -to songs and films if i need to get some shit out that i'll put on but you think about you know obviously war But you think about sports, you know, whether they won, whether they lost, you know, the raw emotion
that comes out then. But yet there's this bullshit facade like men don't cry, which I would argue came from the John Waynes and Schwarzeneggers who had never actually served in their life. You know, they're actors that, you know, and no disrespect to them, but they are not manly
men at all. They are. portraying manly men in a terrible way so you know and we bought into that our generation totally bought into that kind of Hollywood facade of masculinity versus that you know you look at the real men of Easy Company talking on Band of Brothers they're in tears numerous times relaying that and that was 70 plus years before so that's what a man is yeah I mean those dudes were built different too like that's a whole other fucking breed that
was just like because I mean when I went to Normandy I was just like you did what like just thinking back of all like the movies that you've watched you're just like fuck that like no thank you yeah no gps no no you know overwatch none of that doors open go in and germans the fortified bunkers like to see the bunkers to like that's one of the things that one of my one of my favorite trips was being able to to go to normandy and look at some of the world like world war ii and
then world war one when i went to bellwood um Or it was just like, it's unbelievable what these men had gone through to, to get us to the point of where we are today and to see the types of infrastructure, see how fast it was built, to see all the engineering that went into it. And you're just like, wait, we just, just bodies and droves just came into swarm and overwhelm.
And, and to get us to this point, it's just, it's, it's remarkable to just the tenacity of, of who we are as humans to, to overcome that for a belief and just, yeah, a moral. Yeah. So it's just like, wow. It's interesting because I've had so many conversations now and either if it's an older guest, dad, but more often granddad.
was in the war and we romanticize about that generation what they did was incredible but we romanticize and then they just came back and they rolled up their sleeves and they went to work and no they were a fucking mess listen to what granddad was actually like that absolutely took a toll and that environment they weren't able to talk about it like we do today so we owe it to that generation to heal ourselves because i was just having a conversation with someone
right before you and i sat down what i see now in a lot of the things that are wrong with our society, is broken people at the helm of whether it's a presidential seat that they're occupying, whether it's the head of Purdue Pharma or William Morris Tobacco, where their decisions are costing, in some cases, hundreds of thousands of American lives, and they sleep like a baby at night. So left unaddressed, the trauma from World War II
and beyond is still rippling today. And so if we really want to honor the men and women of the World War II generation, we bind back together and we start healing our communities. Because I see the opposite as a real kind of push. And that's such a spit in the face for the men and women that fought for the liberty in the first place. Yep. Yeah, it's wild, man. If you've not been to Normandy, I recommend it. And any of
the viewers who haven't, go. It's a vibe. to witness that and to and to just see the remnants of what it was it's just like it's it puts a whole new like it's like life's not that bad right now you know with with all that's happening with all they're finding right now with you know not having to get too political but it's just it's astounding to see like it's gone that long for this country to be this much in debt and all this fucking chaos of you know what so yeah
yeah I think, again, if we refine that community that they had back then, where it was truly a selfless service mentality, I think we truly could make America great again. But it's not going to be from a politician. I tell you that right now. It's going to be from us. Yeah. No, absolutely. As a community, being able to bind together and understand that there's a better alternative way to see things done. look at the numbers based on suicide deaths for first responders
and how that gets reported. How many reports have you been kicked back with over the years where, oh, this is off, this is wrong, this is wrong, but okay, let's go find out how many firefighters just killed themselves. What are the reports and statistical values for us to be able to look at in real time, not wait four years later to then be like, oh, maybe we got to do something about it. It's like, okay. How about after year one, we come to the table and look at it. Okay,
here's where we need to change. These are the different programs that we can explore and look at. Even just having a dog in the fire station after a significant event might be able to do something. It doesn't cost anybody anything other than the fucking dog and whoever's handler is to bring it in. So it's like even just changing up one thing, but dude, some of these guys are just stuck and they're in their own way of actually
making real changes. because they don't want to piss off the mayor or they like, it's whatever. Yeah. It's a cycle. Yeah. It's going to change though. It is. I mean, I think firstly, the work week conversation is, is a revolution that's begun. Um, the thing that I'm working on this show, I hope will, you know, put our story front and center in every living room and cell phone.
in the states at least if not internationally and then people are going to ask a lot of questions wait a second i thought that you know the firefighting you know it was easy and they just sat around and you know dalmatian and and people are going to realize it's not the case and then hopefully like i said that hope conversation too like if you know whoever's out there whatever level of struggle you're at that there are solutions and
here they are. So, yeah. But I mean, everyone that's part of this puzzle is doing this for the right reason, not for their own career, you know, or personal gain. I think that's going to be the next renaissance, the renaissance of kindness and compassion. As I see the fractured, you know, the Jenga blocks starting to wobble in this whole self -serving monopoly, you know,
I'm the most important person in the world. bullshit that to me is the opposite of what we just said that the world war ii generation so i'm looking forward to seeing kindness and compassion you finally win again yeah yeah it's gonna be nice all right well then just for everyone to reiterate where are the best places to find the non -profit and also if they want to reach out to you personally yeah best place to find us is warriorschoice
.org or you can find us on social media at Warriors Choice Foundation or at Choice Warriors between X and between Facebook. And then personally, if you want to reach out to me, a .longo at warriorschoice .org is probably the best way to get in touch with me. I generally don't answer numbers that I don't know. So if anything. Shoot me an email. I'm pretty responsive at that point. Now I'm stuck on a computer most days, so I don't really
get to do the fun shit anymore. Now it's more management, delegation, all that other stuff. But yeah, reach out to me anytime. Anybody who's struggling, just go to our website, put in an app, put in a request, and we'll be in touch. We have a phone number there. We're actually going to be relaunching the website. So there'll be more ways of being able to find resources and get plugged into where you got to get plugged
into. Beautiful. Well, I want to say thank you, firstly, for your vulnerable, courageous storytelling and being vulnerable yourself. And then like so many people, having served and worn multiple uniforms, still wanting to continue to serve. I think even in the transition conversation, the people who ultimately do well, I think, realize that you were always a selfless servant, that you always wanted to help people. And the military costume or the fire costume was just that. It
was a costume. It was clothing that you wore at that period. But now, you know, so many people that leave, you know, the first responder professions or the military and they end up doing what you're doing, that they still serve in whatever capacity. So I want to thank you so much for everything that you're doing for our community and the military community. And also for being so generous with your time and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today. I appreciate it. Thanks for having
me on. Thank you. Thanks, Pat.