039 - Hack - What are Video Production Source Files

00;00;00;01 - 00;00;00;11 Did you know? 00;00;00;11 - 00;00;05;05 At Costco, a jar of olives costs less than ten bucks. 00;00;05;08 - 00;00;08;01 Is that, is that true or are you just making that up? 00;00;08;01 - 00;00;11;15 A creative on my like Instagram put out a story 00;00;11;15 - 00;00;14;18 about how she is officially going to Costco 00;00;14;18 - 00;00;19;18 instead of buying olives from Amazon because it's like $22 less. 00;00;19;20 - 00;00;21;08 Whoa. You're buying. Ah, wait. 00;00;21;08 - 00;00;23;23 You're buying olives from Amazon? That's a terrible. 00;00;23;23 - 00;00;25;29 No, no, don't. Don't judge. 00;00;25;29 - 00;00;26;29 It's you know, 00;00;26;29 - 00;00;31;05 if you have to get a big jar of olives and you can't get it at a physical store. 00;00;31;07 - 00;00;32;23 Oh, you mean like. 00;00;32;23 - 00;00;34;18 Like olives in bulk, I guess. 00;00;34;18 - 00;00;36;07 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 00;00;36;07 - 00;00;38;18 Yeah. Because we buy stuff in bulk every now and then. 00;00;38;18 - 00;00;40;08 I don't like olives that much. 00;00;40;08 - 00;00;42;21 I'm okay with olives, but not that much. 00;00;42;21 - 00;00;44;14 I wouldn't buy a big jar anywhere. 00;00;44;14 - 00;00;47;12 I take one or two in my martini and that's like, That's it. 00;00;47;12 - 00;01;05;00 You don't. Drink martinis. 00;01;05;03 - 00;01;05;20 Hello. 00;01;05;20 - 00;01;08;11 Welcome back. How's it going? This is Behind The Pixel. 00;01;08;11 - 00;01;10;02 My name is Will. My name is Kathryn. 00;01;10;02 - 00;01;12;24 And we are the co-founders of Open Pixel Studios. 00;01;12;24 - 00;01;15;15 We are running this podcast. 00;01;15;15 - 00;01;17;03 This is our second season. 00;01;17;03 - 00;01;19;03 We've been in business for about seven years. 00;01;19;03 - 00;01;21;05 Oof! In February, I think. Mm hmm. 00;01;21;05 - 00;01;24;13 And this is Behind The Pixel where we try to bridge the knowledge gap 00;01;24;13 - 00;01;27;12 between those who buy creative content and those who make it. 00;01;27;12 - 00;01;29;02 You did great. Let that sink in. 00;01;29;02 - 00;01;29;17 Thank you. 00;01;29;17 - 00;01;32;26 Yeah, I'm getting better at remembering that. 00;01;32;28 - 00;01;34;28 So this is a hack. 00;01;34;28 - 00;01;36;16 I'm pretty sure this is a hack. 00;01;36;16 - 00;01;39;16 And today we're talking about source files. 00;01;39;17 - 00;01;42;17 Source files getting down to the source. 00;01;42;22 - 00;01;46;00 You got to. You've got to look at your sources. 00;01;46;03 - 00;01;46;12 Mm hmm. 00;01;46;12 - 00;01;48;23 Get your source sources. 00;01;48;23 - 00;01;49;26 Check your sources. 00;01;49;26 - 00;01;52;07 Why don't you tell us what source files are? Yes. 00;01;52;07 - 00;01;53;11 What the heck are they? 00;01;53;11 - 00;01;56;15 And what do they do and why do they hold all the super powers? 00;01;56;16 - 00;01;59;12 I think is the tagline of this service. 00;01;59;12 - 00;02;00;12 Sure. 00;02;00;12 - 00;02;02;08 So what are source files? Source files? 00;02;02;08 - 00;02;04;07 For those of you who don't know. 00;02;04;07 - 00;02;05;10 Here's my analogy. 00;02;05;10 - 00;02;09;11 If you're hiring a chef to make a cake, 00;02;09;13 - 00;02;12;29 the chef would be the artists, right? 00;02;13;01 - 00;02;14;06 Who are making the thing. 00;02;14;06 - 00;02;17;28 Artists have tools like a baking pan or a whisk 00;02;17;28 - 00;02;22;08 or an electronic whisk or I guess that's all I now. 00;02;22;11 - 00;02;26;02 An automatic stirrer that stirs in your pan for you 00;02;26;02 - 00;02;30;27 so you don't have to use your hand to do anything. 00;02;30;27 - 00;02;33;22 That's basically the eye of the tools. 00;02;33;22 - 00;02;34;08 That's right. 00;02;34;08 - 00;02;36;24 That's so right. 00;02;36;24 - 00;02;38;20 So those are the tools we use. 00;02;38;20 - 00;02;40;04 And then there's the ingredients. 00;02;40;04 - 00;02;42;23 And then the ingredients in our line of work. 00;02;42;23 - 00;02;46;10 Usually a chef would have to go out and buy those ingredients. 00;02;46;13 - 00;02;48;19 We can sometimes do that. 00;02;48;19 - 00;02;49;24 We can go out and buy 00;02;49;24 - 00;02;54;04 some of the things that we need, but we also make our own ingredients. 00;02;54;11 - 00;02;54;23 Right. 00;02;54;23 - 00;02;57;23 We like churn better. 00;02;57;27 - 00;02;58;24 I don't know. 00;02;58;24 - 00;03;00;17 Let's skip the analogy for a second. 00;03;00;17 - 00;03;04;02 But we're making stuff in order to create the final. 00;03;04;06 - 00;03;06;28 And I think that's kind of the idea I'm getting at, right? 00;03;06;28 - 00;03;08;20 So we put all those things together 00;03;08;20 - 00;03;11;14 and we create if you're going back to the analogy, 00;03;11;14 - 00;03;13;27 if you're the chef, you're creating a batter, 00;03;13;27 - 00;03;16;19 and then the batter is the thing that you actually put under pressure 00;03;16;19 - 00;03;20;21 and under heat like a deadline and bake the final video, right? 00;03;20;21 - 00;03;22;02 Like, sure, I'm mixing. 00;03;22;02 - 00;03;24;08 Sure. My analogies here. Mm hmm. 00;03;24;08 - 00;03;30;19 So source files are the ingredients and the batter together. 00;03;30;19 - 00;03;35;13 And you can only access those, too, if you have the tools. 00;03;35;14 - 00;03;36;21 Right? Right. 00;03;36;21 - 00;03;37;14 You get me. 00;03;37;14 - 00;03;39;09 So say you work in Photoshop. 00;03;39;09 - 00;03;41;29 Photoshop is a very easy thing to understand. 00;03;41;29 - 00;03;44;05 Wrap your head around Photoshop. 00;03;44;05 - 00;03;48;12 If I make an edit to a photo, I have actually two files. 00;03;48;12 - 00;03;52;11 I have the file that I give to you, and then I have the file 00;03;52;11 - 00;03;56;06 that I created that thing with, and that is the source file. 00;03;56;09 - 00;03;59;25 And I think most marketers know that some nonprofit communication folks 00;03;59;25 - 00;04;02;11 might not know that, but that's what source files are. 00;04;02;11 - 00;04;05;04 So as a company, sometimes you'll get asked 00;04;05;04 - 00;04;08;27 to provide those source files or to not provide those source files, 00;04;08;27 - 00;04;13;08 depending on the project and the client type and what have you. 00;04;13;08 - 00;04;16;13 So is there a reason why 00;04;16;16 - 00;04;20;07 a client would use source files and ask us for them? 00;04;20;14 - 00;04;20;22 Yeah. 00;04;20;22 - 00;04;24;03 People usually tend to ask for these source files at the end of the project, 00;04;24;05 - 00;04;27;09 and usually marketing folks will ask for source files 00;04;27;09 - 00;04;32;10 because they're trying to do something specific with them in case of emergency. 00;04;32;10 - 00;04;38;25 Right now, that emergency might be the date of this event shifted. 00;04;38;27 - 00;04;41;08 It's no longer on December 7th. 00;04;41;08 - 00;04;43;15 It's on December 25th. Right. 00;04;43;15 - 00;04;47;01 And we as marketers maybe have Photoshop as part of our wheelhouse. 00;04;47;01 - 00;04;51;06 So we could just go in, change that quick date and then be done. 00;04;51;09 - 00;04;53;14 Correct. Exactly. 00;04;53;14 - 00;04;56;19 Now, this gets a little pervasive from folks 00;04;56;19 - 00;05;00;08 who may want to be taking advantage of the type of work 00;05;00;11 - 00;05;03;18 that you might be giving away as an artist. 00;05;03;20 - 00;05;06;17 So in a scenario where, 00;05;06;17 - 00;05;11;01 let's say you're creating graphics for a football. 00;05;11;01 - 00;05;12;26 Game, go sports ball. Yes. 00;05;12;26 - 00;05;15;21 You know, when you watch a football game, go sports 00;05;15;21 - 00;05;18;23 ball, you have a ton of stuff in in graphics 00;05;18;23 - 00;05;22;16 that pop up stats and players names and Africa, what they call that. 00;05;22;16 - 00;05;25;09 But it's like a sports package. Mm hmm. 00;05;25;09 - 00;05;29;20 Those are all created with templates because they all have to swap out. 00;05;29;20 - 00;05;31;27 You have how many players on a football team? 00;05;31;27 - 00;05;32;22 I guess it depends. 00;05;32;22 - 00;05;34;25 But you have all these players on a football team. 00;05;34;25 - 00;05;37;18 You can have like 300 technically. Yeah. 00;05;37;18 - 00;05;41;06 And you have to have stats for all of them and so they all have to look the same 00;05;41;06 - 00;05;41;28 and that kind of thing. 00;05;41;28 - 00;05;45;14 So you create these templates and then you kind of give them away 00;05;45;14 - 00;05;49;12 because they need to use them consistently for each broadcast. 00;05;49;15 - 00;05;49;29 Mm hmm. 00;05;49;29 - 00;05;53;12 That makes sense, because that's part of the package. 00;05;53;15 - 00;05;56;10 Now, when you're a marketer or a nonprofit 00;05;56;10 - 00;06;01;02 and you have a piece of collateral, some some sort of video that you've made, 00;06;01;06 - 00;06;05;26 it's an ad maybe for a product and there's animation in there. 00;06;05;29 - 00;06;09;06 If you use the source files for a different product, 00;06;09;09 - 00;06;11;16 but use the same animation, 00;06;11;16 - 00;06;14;21 then you're kind of skipping out on hiring 00;06;14;21 - 00;06;18;00 someone else to do a different thing for a different product. 00;06;18;02 - 00;06;18;25 Does that make sense? 00;06;18;25 - 00;06;19;20 I think so. 00;06;19;20 - 00;06;22;20 So there's a lot of power in the source files 00;06;22;20 - 00;06;26;23 because you can replace, alter or change all of the things 00;06;26;23 - 00;06;31;13 within that file to kind of create something new. 00;06;31;16 - 00;06;34;16 And there's a sort of moral question in there. 00;06;34;20 - 00;06;35;19 Should you do that? 00;06;35;19 - 00;06;36;12 I don't know. 00;06;36;12 - 00;06;38;27 It's going in a little bit into the controversy. 00;06;38;27 - 00;06;39;11 A little bit. 00;06;39;11 - 00;06;39;23 Yeah. 00;06;39;23 - 00;06;44;04 I mean, the biggest the biggest challenge to working with source files is 00;06;44;06 - 00;06;48;17 and I think this is why I think source files come in to different layers. 00;06;48;19 - 00;06;51;27 Like those source files in terms of like, 00;06;51;29 - 00;06;55;26 we give you everything that we've worked on on the project from start to finish, 00;06;55;29 - 00;06;59;23 even if you don't have the ability to even open it or work with it. 00;06;59;25 - 00;07;01;13 Which happens often because. 00;07;01;13 - 00;07;05;07 Yeah, yeah, there's, there's times you might not have a 3D package like 00;07;05;11 - 00;07;07;25 it's expensive to get it just for the sake of opening 00;07;07;25 - 00;07;10;26 a file that you then haven't had experience working with. 00;07;10;26 - 00;07;14;25 And you might look at this, you know, Maya file and be like, 00;07;14;28 - 00;07;18;15 Okay, great, I can open this character, but how do I render it? 00;07;18;16 - 00;07;19;28 What does that mean? Like, you know. 00;07;19;28 - 00;07;21;13 So there's there's a lot there. 00;07;21;13 - 00;07;25;18 A second issue is that almost every animation studio will have like 00;07;25;21 - 00;07;29;10 proprietary pipelines or tools or software that they work within. 00;07;29;12 - 00;07;33;12 So even within the tool that you're being able to have, 00;07;33;14 - 00;07;36;27 like if you have after effects, let's say, and you try to open a source file, 00;07;37;03 - 00;07;39;28 you might not have the plugins that 00;07;39;28 - 00;07;43;27 the animator used in order to be able to open it completely. 00;07;43;27 - 00;07;47;00 So there might be missing links, There might be like you might get 00;07;47;00 - 00;07;51;28 all sorts of popups that say you can't use a big one is like particular. 00;07;52;00 - 00;07;56;24 So there's things like that that just make it more difficult to work with. 00;07;56;27 - 00;08;00;29 Yeah, I think we try to see source files on two different fronts because there's 00;08;01;02 - 00;08;02;28 there's a source file level. 00;08;02;28 - 00;08;07;01 To me, that's for the purpose of repurposing for marketing. 00;08;07;08 - 00;08;12;24 So what I mean by that is like having the ability to take a pose 00;08;12;24 - 00;08;16;27 of a character that might be waving or doing something or looking happy, 00;08;16;27 - 00;08;20;26 whatever that might be in that particular that was in the animation that you 00;08;20;26 - 00;08;24;19 then want that one image for your presentation purpose. 00;08;24;21 - 00;08;28;14 That's a little bit different of a situation for me 00;08;28;14 - 00;08;31;13 that that it's still a source file that you might be giving, 00;08;31;17 - 00;08;36;09 but it's packaged in such a way that still allows you to like open what you need. 00;08;36;12 - 00;08;38;27 So it's just a it's a different way of approaching it. 00;08;38;27 - 00;08;43;14 But also, to your point earlier, you would hope that for that presentation 00;08;43;17 - 00;08;47;18 that you're also working with a graphic design team or the same studio 00;08;47;23 - 00;08;51;26 to be able to make your presentation look a lot better because they'll also 00;08;51;28 - 00;08;56;02 as the creators of that, they're going to be able to more easily 00;08;56;05 - 00;08;59;22 go in and make changes and like extract things as you need it. 00;08;59;22 - 00;09;01;15 So yeah, it kind of depends. 00;09;01;15 - 00;09;01;21 Yeah. 00;09;01;21 - 00;09;03;21 If you're going from video to print, oftentimes 00;09;03;21 - 00;09;08;21 what happens is you're our our video files are like ten htp for print. 00;09;08;21 - 00;09;12;00 You need to have like a 300 DPI 00;09;12;01 - 00;09;15;22 like file that's like huge and like, I can't get that unless you. 00;09;15;23 - 00;09;17;19 Unless we're animating everything in 4K. 00;09;17;19 - 00;09;18;04 Exactly. 00;09;18;04 - 00;09;18;26 Like, you can't get that 00;09;18;26 - 00;09;23;06 unless you make larger renders and like, you still need the tools to do that. 00;09;23;06 - 00;09;25;08 So those are very specific examples. 00;09;25;08 - 00;09;29;16 But you know, there are other times when I've heard artists being like, 00;09;29;16 - 00;09;33;15 Hey, like they're asking for source files to charge for these. 00;09;33;15 - 00;09;37;05 Like they contain so much more information 00;09;37;05 - 00;09;41;09 that is in a way detrimental to my business, right? 00;09;41;09 - 00;09;42;09 Like it could be. 00;09;42;09 - 00;09;45;09 You're taking me out of the you're taking me out of the loop 00;09;45;15 - 00;09;47;26 and you're giving away, like, all my stuff. 00;09;47;26 - 00;09;51;03 On the flip side, I've had clients ask for source files 00;09;51;07 - 00;09;56;20 for projects that are older, that are consistent on a yearly basis. 00;09;56;23 - 00;09;59;22 Mm hmm. And, like, they're not helpful. 00;10;00;00 - 00;10;02;13 You know, like, the source files 00;10;02;13 - 00;10;04;26 that come in from last year, 00;10;04;26 - 00;10;08;01 because this year is an entirely different design. 00;10;08;01 - 00;10;12;02 And like, it's an entirely different visual thing. 00;10;12;05 - 00;10;15;27 It's not going to help you to have those because it's a yearly event 00;10;15;27 - 00;10;17;08 that changes every year, you know? 00;10;17;08 - 00;10;20;07 So the last piece to 00;10;20;07 - 00;10;24;16 about source files that you can expect, I think I had a friend 00;10;24;16 - 00;10;28;19 colleague say this to me is that we provide source files for free, 00;10;28;21 - 00;10;31;05 but we do not clean them up. 00;10;31;05 - 00;10;36;01 So and by that he meant all the layers are whatever they are, 00;10;36;03 - 00;10;40;04 There's no renaming, there's no folder structure. 00;10;40;06 - 00;10;42;09 Like, whatever you got. 00;10;42;09 - 00;10;44;10 Have fun with that organization. Yeah. Yeah. 00;10;44;10 - 00;10;46;27 If you want to pay us to clean it up, because it does take some time. 00;10;46;27 - 00;10;48;22 It takes some time to clean up files. 00;10;48;22 - 00;10;49;09 It can, 00;10;49;09 - 00;10;53;02 especially when we're working on deadline and we're churning out things 00;10;53;02 - 00;10;53;27 really quickly. 00;10;53;27 - 00;10;56;20 We're not naming things necessarily the right way. 00;10;56;20 - 00;10;59;10 So you're supposed to you got to do it. 00;10;59;10 - 00;11;01;02 Got to stay clean. 00;11;01;02 - 00;11;05;02 I'm I'm of the mindset that you clean it up after you're done. 00;11;05;04 - 00;11;07;05 Like, I'll I'll work through it. 00;11;07;05 - 00;11;08;17 We have two different organizations. 00;11;08;17 - 00;11;13;01 Do well, because I think I don't know exactly if I'm going to use that layer 00;11;13;01 - 00;11;16;05 sometimes I make a layer for like measuring purposes 00;11;16;05 - 00;11;18;01 and it gets left in the file. 00;11;18;01 - 00;11;19;29 And then I'm like, you know, who cares? 00;11;19;29 - 00;11;23;01 So this is a side note, but I think that comes from our different 00;11;23;01 - 00;11;26;16 like artistic backgrounds because like for me it's like the idea of 00;11;26;16 - 00;11;29;24 like knowing that it's quite possible 00;11;29;24 - 00;11;33;05 that another character animator has to work in my shop for some reason. 00;11;33;12 - 00;11;38;01 And so, like, it needs to be cleaned so that they can go through it 00;11;38;01 - 00;11;40;21 and be like, Oh, I know what to take from this. 00;11;40;21 - 00;11;41;20 I know what to change. 00;11;41;20 - 00;11;44;19 Like, especially if they're dealing with match on actions or things like that. 00;11;44;19 - 00;11;47;19 So it's just a it's a courtesy to other artists, 00;11;47;26 - 00;11;50;28 but it's you're not thinking about it necessarily from the client perspective. 00;11;50;29 - 00;11;51;10 Yeah. 00;11;51;10 - 00;11;55;00 And in a weird way, you're kind of talking to the other artist if you're 00;11;55;00 - 00;11;56;28 if you're going to if you're going to give your file 00;11;56;28 - 00;12;01;15 to someone else, you're like, you're kind of secretly like 00;12;01;18 - 00;12;04;23 having a this other language that you're giving away to someone else. 00;12;04;23 - 00;12;08;07 Like there's, there's, there's, you know, there's like thoughts in the file. 00;12;08;07 - 00;12;12;05 You're giving me ideas to know, throw secrets into my source files. 00;12;12;08 - 00;12;15;07 I just. Oh. I think I've done that. 00;12;15;07 - 00;12;17;08 Yeah, I have totally done that. 00;12;17;08 - 00;12;20;26 Like, I've renamed all the layers. So. Yeah. 00;12;20;29 - 00;12;23;01 So anyway, those are source files. 00;12;23;01 - 00;12;24;25 So I think you talked about all the problems. 00;12;24;25 - 00;12;27;24 We talked about proprietary tools and how they get in the way. 00;12;27;24 - 00;12;28;27 They can be expensive. 00;12;28;27 - 00;12;30;22 There's messiness in files. 00;12;30;22 - 00;12;32;00 Do we charge for them? 00;12;32;00 - 00;12;34;06 That's kind of up to the artist or studio. 00;12;34;06 - 00;12;38;22 I would say my advice to anyone who is thinking about getting source files 00;12;38;22 - 00;12;44;19 from their creative house, just establish what your goals are with them beforehand 00;12;44;21 - 00;12;48;13 because it depends on the relationship you have with them. 00;12;48;16 - 00;12;52;16 The intention behind the source files that's going to determine 00;12;52;16 - 00;12;56;18 whether a creative comes back and says, okay, well we can give you this, but 00;12;56;20 - 00;13;00;10 or they say, okay, here we've packaged it in such a way. 00;13;00;12 - 00;13;01;17 This is how you can use it. 00;13;01;17 - 00;13;05;26 Like I think it's a testament to being communicative 00;13;05;26 - 00;13;11;07 about your approach to things and why that's going to change. 00;13;11;07 - 00;13;12;21 The file type that you get. 00;13;12;21 - 00;13;16;04 So yeah, just just be open and have a conversation 00;13;16;04 - 00;13;19;03 about what types of source files you need, why you need them, 00;13;19;03 - 00;13;23;21 because there might be a better way to package what you're looking for, right? 00;13;23;29 - 00;13;24;15 It might be. 00;13;24;15 - 00;13;27;15 You might say, Hey, I just need that pose from that character 00;13;27;21 - 00;13;30;07 to put into my our other marketing campaign 00;13;30;07 - 00;13;31;24 because this character is going to be used throughout. 00;13;31;24 - 00;13;34;02 Maybe it's a mascot. In that case. 00;13;34;02 - 00;13;36;11 I don't necessarily need to package all of 00;13;36;11 - 00;13;39;22 the Maya files that are used to animate it because you can't open that. 00;13;39;29 - 00;13;44;03 But I can send you a couple renders that are just that individual frame. 00;13;44;06 - 00;13;47;22 So, you know, it's just having conversation about that. 00;13;47;23 - 00;13;48;12 Yeah, yeah. 00;13;48;12 - 00;13;51;10 The Y is really important. That's a good point. 00;13;51;10 - 00;13;51;17 Yeah. 00;13;51;17 - 00;13;56;13 The other thing that I'll mention lastly here is locking source files. 00;13;56;15 - 00;14;00;07 So there's technically ways to bake 00;14;00;07 - 00;14;04;04 in animation so that no one really can change it. 00;14;04;04 - 00;14;07;28 And that's where the sort of the chef is making the batter, 00;14;08;00 - 00;14;09;05 like the way you make them. 00;14;09;05 - 00;14;12;05 If I just handed you over some batter and you made a cake, 00;14;12;05 - 00;14;16;06 it would taste delicious because I'm a good chef or whatever. 00;14;16;09 - 00;14;20;05 But if I gave you the ingredients to that batter, 00;14;20;07 - 00;14;22;21 you might not make the same batter, Right? 00;14;22;21 - 00;14;26;07 You might make some other okay batter. 00;14;26;10 - 00;14;28;15 And that tastes fine, you know? 00;14;28;15 - 00;14;29;17 But anyway, so. 00;14;29;17 - 00;14;31;11 So there are ways to lock those files. 00;14;31;11 - 00;14;32;23 So be aware of that, too. 00;14;32;23 - 00;14;34;16 Some artists might be doing that. I don't know. 00;14;34;16 - 00;14;38;14 We do that in specific situations only because we use proprietary software 00;14;38;14 - 00;14;42;12 and our animations that require kind of that to be the case. So. 00;14;42;14 - 00;14;44;00 So it just depends. Yeah. 00;14;44;00 - 00;14;48;15 Be honest and transparent with your goals behind source files. 00;14;48;22 - 00;14;52;07 They shouldn't be intimidating or scary per say. 00;14;52;09 - 00;14;56;18 We don't want you to have source files and then be like, Oh, what do I even do? 00;14;56;18 - 00;14;57;11 How do I do this? 00;14;57;11 - 00;14;59;21 Or like, it's a pain in the butt to work with. 00;14;59;21 - 00;15;03;26 So I think it's just, yeah, be mindful and have those conversations. 00;15;03;29 - 00;15;06;16 Cool. Well, I think that's it for this episode. 00;15;06;16 - 00;15;10;28 Thank you so much for listening and we will see you in the next episode. 00;15;11;01 - 00;15;11;28 You know? You're welcome. 00;15;11;28 - 00;15;13;17 I'm happy to listen any time. 00;15;13;17 - 00;15;15;25 So are we just talking to each other? 00;15;15;25 - 00;15;17;08 I get it. I see what you're saying. 00;15;17;08 - 00;15;19;02 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00;15;19;02 - 00;15;21;17 I did a a riff. 00;15;21;17 - 00;15;23;26 A riff, but good improv. 00;15;23;26 - 00;15;28;00 I kind of something. 00;15;28;02 - 00;15;34;06 See you next time. 00;15;34;08 - 00;15;37;12 A big thank you, as always, to E Media for producing this podcast. 00;15;37;13 - 00;15;39;10 Our producer is Jackson Foote. 00;15;39;10 - 00;15;43;10 Our music is created by hidden and licensed through premium FT.com. 00;15;43;10 - 00;15;46;14 And as always, stay honest, stay creative. 00;15;46;16 - 00;15;49;03 Stay open. Open Pixel Studios. 00;15;49;03 - 00;15;50;16 Thanks. We'll see you in the next episode.