Hello, and welcome to another episode of behind the madness. I'm your host, James Roberts, founder, and owner of method, a growth agency who are hell bent on unlocking company's potential through creative and marketing techniques. We're back and I'm again, joined by jamie and Paul, mainly because we are recording two episodes in one day, so we can get more out to you guys and it's the only way these two can actually pin me. So today we are talking about business in 2022.
What's changed and what hasn't. This is going to be very much a seat of the pants episode, where we're just going to talk about the things that we've heard of, we've seen changing and we've seen not changing and do a very much a conversational piece.
I'm going to jump in straight away with what do we think of Meta and metaverse.
Oh, you've gone straight in with the big guns, Jamie and I liked the way that you're asking the question rather than us throwing it to you.
Having the social media background compared to me and Paul, I think obviously there are going to be some big things that are coming I think Facebook, as it was had to change, they're obviously getting a lot of other apps, a lot of other kinds of organizations included in their business and it didn't really sit under what Facebook was when they first created it. When was it? When was it invented? When was it founded?
2003, it kind of went to 2003, four, went live and then came over to the rest of the world out of the colleges and schools of So, you know, when I was 10, 11,
So if we think about that, then yes, it's been around a long time. I think it had to adapt. I think what they certainly were finding was that a lot of the older generation were using it and the younger ones were thinking, this is very uncool and obviously that can't go on as we in the last podcast, I think it ties in quite nicely there that they had to look at their goals and what they were wanting to achieve. And it wasn't achieving that so much anymore. Paul, what were your thoughts?
Yeah, I agree. I think Facebook, we're getting a bit of flack for their privacy, so I think moving name-wise moving away, probably deletes a little bit of that history. But yeah, I think with other apps coming along taking their business or especially advertising along with users they've obviously acquired WhatsApp and Instagram, so they can fight other apps like TikTok and adapt there are ways that way, but yeah, I think umbrellaing all underneath one name will help them.
From a business point of view, I think it's actually really smart because but you guys alluded to that instagram is a beast it's the one at the moment and obviously they own that. So they've almost bought themselves, especially with the kind of incorporation of reels, short form video. They bought themselves two to three years of kind of trend time to rebuild their original platform. Because as James said, the products, it's just not very good anymore. Is it.
I quite like the logo, I think they've done well with that. And I think it obviously does seem to make a lot more sense of what they wanted to achieve. What else is on the horizon then Jamie come on give us some, give us some insight, what they're going to be doing next.
Facebook or in business in general?
Facebook, or Meta. Let's have a look at them. Let's see what they're going to do.
So I think massively with Meta, obviously trying to own the space of the Metaverse is going to be really important because it's, it's this virtual world mainly through stuff like you think they got the Oculus, which is AR VR, which straight away they are trying to own a space, they are Meta. They have Oculus, which allow you to enter the Metaverse.
Which Martin has just bought. We should have got him in.
That's awesome. What we should probably do then is if you guys want to see either video or some Instagram stories of Method in the Metaverse, then pop that down in the comments and then we can we can sort that out with our Northern Irishman. Going back to the kind of other questions, Facebook, I think it bought itself some really good lead time. I think reels, Facebook has to do something about TikTok.
TikTok became an absolute mammoth and came to Europe with 500 million daily active users being a kind of a Chinese company. It had a lot of people in Asia using the product. So when it came over to Europe and America, Facebook And Instagram teams kind of went, wait a minute. This is taking a lot of our market taking a lot of our attention. And obviously as people know, attention means currency in that world.
So by bringing in Reels short form video, that's going to be a big move and that's going to be the trend that really kicks on in 2022 in terms of for marketers, for entrepreneurs solo business owners, it's going to be a really important aspect to build into your strategy and make sure that you are delivering that more authentic, entertaining and educational piece through quickfire digestible content. I also think social shopping is going to keep exploding.
We've seen it more with shops and stores on Instagram. I think that's going to be a move that is going to be interesting for Meta. I think being allowing people to almost go shopping in the virtual world, try things on imagine doing something, whether it's like Ikea or B&Q and you can go into the Metaverse, you can see that product in your living room. That would be a really interesting thing.
I will admit, I stole the Ikea reference from a podcast I saw with Noel Mack and Ben Francis at Gymshark the other day, so thanks for that one guys.
Are you just mentioning Gymshark again? We just trying to, is that the second
Yeah, well, I give credit where credit's due. I think it's great point about the Metaverse. I think most of us is going to become massive. We just need to go and check the hashtag numbers on Instagram. See how many times it's mentioned and then social shopping. They're the two big things that are going to really push on, especially as people, are still. Getting out of the COVID mindset.
We've got obviously all of the various elements of restrictions, vaccinations, all of those things, which we are not going to talk about here. But it's making sure that people still feel comfortable enough to go, commerce and e-commerce and social commerce is winning that race.
If we look back to, let's say Christmas, I do a lot of my shopping online, anyway, Christmas was no different this year, just gone. I bought mainly through the likes of Amazon and the like, certainly for the kids. I think this year though is probably the first time I've actually bought through Instagram or through an Instagram shop. I think it was the first time that I have, I think it's always, it's kind of been
Go on then , who was it want to mention them,
it was Hexxee socks.
out to Ben Cox and Johnny Hollway.
There you go, I'll have my discount on my next pair. I got some donut socks to try them out which appear to have very, very good reviews, but it's one of as I said. One of the first times I've actually done it. I saw it, it popped up looked great, boom job done. And it took me, I mean, it was almost as nailed, as easy as Instagram. And I think that is going to be the route to market for a lot of people now. And we have, we've seen over the last few years increase.
We are more receptive to it now, I think, you know, we're starting to see the older generation who don't like the internet, whereas now wanting and understanding it a lot more, they've had to over the last two years, they've had to change. They've had to do all of their accounts and everything online. So I think having that removed from them opens up this digital way of shopping too, to just about everybody.
So yeah, I completely agree with it with the e-commerce I think it is a, a massive marketplace and something which is only going to become easier to get to your consumers.
I'm going to pick up on something too. You just said James and pull Paul in. That you're just mentioning about tools and stuff like that. So I just want to bring Paul in on tools for business owners that we've seen the growth of zoom, we've seen the growth of slack and all of this, like this HubSpot out there, these kinds of online tools. Paul, what do you see for that kind of landscape for business owners in 2022?
I think it's just going to become more, more used. We work remotely at Method, we've honed in certain apps that we like. We use Slack, obviously, Zoom. We use a time management or job management Wrike. We've moved away from them and moved to ClickUp because they've adapted maybe two things that we would you use more? We didn't always use Slack. We started using Slack we moved to a different app when Slack was doing what we wanted it to do.
So when these apps are getting updates more people are using them. They get more feedback, They're adapting. So we could see apps becoming more useful, better rather than just being particularly functional for one or two reasons.
They're growing much quicker. They seem to be getting a lot of seed money in more than often, I think ClickUp has just received a, another huge amounts of money to, to invest into that platform because of the uptake. And reliability now, I think has to be key, but they are, they're changing at a huge rate before that it's tools would, would be very much stuck at what they did or the goals that they were achieving and wouldn't change that quickly. It seems that now the rate of change.
It could backfire because the expectations of the consumers and the users of these tools, but these tools are coming about very, very quickly and being developed very, very quickly with new features, with new updates, which is great from our point of view, because we're getting new stuff that is helping us become more productive. Certainly in terms of, you know, the likes of ClickUp.
One thing I was going to say about social commerce is that we've seen A shift from massive influencer advertising. So you get someone like Kim Kardashian, they were advertising big brands. They were getting paid millions and millions to do it which is brilliant for them profiting off their social media. But as far as our target markets are going, they were hitting millions of millions of followers, tens of millions of followers, and probably 2% were company's target market.
So they're bringing their advertising now to more relative people smaller accounts, but they're more targeted.
Yeah. hundred percent I think. And that's a really, really interesting point because in the last, I'd say 12 to 18 months has been a big swing by social platforms, but also by brands looking to work with more engaged audiences rather than higher follow accounts, I think we will realize nowadays that follow the numbers can be bought. They can be unengaged, they can just be a vanity metric. Whereas if you have a smaller audience or a more engaged, that is so much more valuable to brands.
So the inception of nano influencers and micro-influencers even though this influencer world seems to be lingering about, will just help brands reach who's important. and kind of really tap into brand's buyer personas. So even more reason to get your buyer persona right if you're looking to go into the influencer marketing space, because then you can identify with who they're looking for, and also a little bonus point.
If you're going to work with any influencer, make sure you get that media care so you know what you're getting.
I think you completely, right. I think, I think it's more legit now as well like having real-world stories, if you look at the new Apple advertising that they've done with the apple watch, which one person is unconscious. I think the other one's in the car, they are very much. Pulling on emotions. So they're very much gone for that emotional state, but you seeing yourself in that position. Whereas I think with influencers, you, aren't going to see yourself.
Certainly with those, with those bigger celebrities, you can't see yourself in their shoes, but you do see it and kind of like all, if they've got one, I want one, but I think now we've shifted. I think we're a lot clever. I think we want to really engage with, with the real and see, well, actually they've.
Because of having that problem and that need, and I think coming back to that, and it's what, you know, inbound marketing, what we've always focused on is proving over time and time again focusing down on their needs, their requirements and their challenges. You're always gonna win. And yeah, I think it's just now becoming more social media is going that way again. I think with social commerce,
I think while while we're on there if Heights or Whoop want to reach out to James, I'm sure he would happily test a nano influencing,
Absolutely. Yep. Will, want to get on the next podcast or anybody from Heights, then just tap me up. We'll get you on the next podcast.
What do we think hasn't changed guys? Because there's a lot of, there's a lot of rate of change. There's a lot of speed of change, but what do we think that business owners, entrepreneurs, even marketing teams what can they stay true to?
Being personable, staying human. Being able to contact a company, speaking to a real person, that's never going to, I always want to speak to a real person if I've got a customer service enquiry. That, that sorts my problem out because it might not understand fully and talking to a bot firsthand, it's fine as long as then you get to a real person afterwards.
Yeah. So with that, I think you're exactly right. I think bots can, they've got their place, which is very much to take the masses and filter that down to the right relevant people in the particular departments. I think that's where they've mainly got that place or to give you a quick know, I can't log in or this isn't working well, here you go, here's your answer? Did that help? Yes or no?
No. Here's somebody I think is going to help because these bigger organizations, when you get to that level, you're getting so many enquiries it's tough. We though had or I had an interaction with bringing up Heights again where I wanted to know whether some other some other pills that I was taking would have any effect, so it was actually some some pre and probiotics that I take daily. I wanted to make sure that when I was taking Heights and their supplements that they weren't going to clash.
So they said, oh, reach out and we'll help you. And you know, when you're thinking in the back of your head really, are you, but I filled it in, sent it off. And I got an email back from one of the nutritionalists saying, yeah, we've looked into both of the products that you're using. There's no crossover you'll have absolutely no issues, blah, blah, blah, and sent an amazing email back that I was completely blown away by.
From a customer relationship point of view, I felt so much it kind of gratitude towards them for taking my query seriously enough to spend a decent amount of time to come back to me. And I've already bought from them, but they wanted me to be satisfied, but it was beyond that. This was very much what we always come back to.
You know, it was spending that time on helping I was absolutely blown away by that as a consequence for them, you know, what's going to happen if you're doing that to consumers, are you then just going to. We've mentioned them now, four or five times within the podcast. It's going to happen because you're going to then pass this on to everybody who you speak to. I've had a great experience. I can't believe how good this was. I can't believe how good the product is. It's a no brainer really?
When it comes to marketing, if you're looking after your customers, Which I think is, is generally the little businesses know it because they have to, they survive on the, on the lower numbers. They have to look out for those customers as companies grow, this is often forgotten about, but I think Heights in this instance were really showing off that and showing the power and how it should be with customer service.
So I think obviously that really nails kind of personalization and the importance of it going forward and can't really see that changing, something else I want to kind of get both of your opinions on, because one, you know, more about that. But automations and how this can save people, business owners time, and actually just allow business to run better. What are your thoughts on that? I know you're obviously you're both big advocates of HubSpot rightfully so. Jump on that topic.
Let's open that can up.
So automation has its place for anything that is repetitive anytime the boring stuff. We don't want to do it time and time and time and time and time again, and rinse and repeat. All it is is wasting our time. Not everything can be automated. But if we focused on what we know very, very well, and that is around nurturing it's around that type of automation in terms of marketing, digital marketing, lead generation, all that good stuff.
Pretty much all of that journey of turning somebody from prospect into an opportunity into a customer, and then further on from that into essentially an evangelist almost if you like, what Heights have turned me into, that whole process can be automated, all of those touch points can be automated if they've done something over so many times, or they've downloaded something, then they should go into some kind of automation where we are, we're communicating with them.
But, exactly as we've touched on before. I don't want stuff that is unhelpful. I don't want stuff that isn't relevant. It has to still come back to that, that being personal. And we're not talking about being robotic here. We're talking about, you know, we want automation to be super personal and super helpful, and that can be automated. You could also automate those sales emails that we all send all day long.
It's the same thing, we're asking the same questions, we're trying to get the same goals. We're trying to get the same information from a prospect or a lead, but we will type that email out again and again and again, and again and again, when, if actually, if we change that into a sequence or into a template, we can use that, but then what's, what's good about automation is we can report on it. So it's not only saving us time and effort in the process itself.
But so once it's done, we can rinse and repeat it, but we can then report back on it because we have got data that is going through these processes that we can say, do you know what this is working, this isn't working, why? Whereas if you're doing that all manually, you can't step back and understand that data and realize yeah, I mean, Paul, you help us out a lot with the, with the automation with HubSpot, what are you finding we're doing a lot of, at the moment for some of our clients.
I think a good example of the automation that we do which is partly robotic and then turns into personable is if somebody downloads one of our resources once say filled out a form an automatic email goes out to them with the resource on where they can download, a couple of days later, they'll get an automated email through a workflow that sends them another resource that's relevant. That could be a good follow-up to the initial resource that they download it.
Couple of days after that, we can also send them another resource or just to check in email, or if you've got any questions. A couple of days after that, maybe a week after they've downloaded the resource, so it's given them a bit of time to look at it. A task is set up then for James to give them a call.
So then they've gone from very automatic robotic emails a few days after each other to somebody's ringing them up and asking them if they got any problems, if that certain problem they're trying to figure out, it's not a sales call, it's very much have our resources helped you solve your problem. Is there anything else we can do to help you? So I think it's a bit of half And half, so it starts off automated and with a friendly phone call to check in and see how it's going.
And I think they can grow as well over time. So you can have ifs and buts, if you like where you can drop in and out of those of those automations, if certain actions happen. So as we grow or understand a customer or a prospect or lead, we can change what actually happens to them through that nurturing journey. So it doesn't have to be this linear pattern.
It generally starts very linear because you've got to start somewhere when you're building up these automations, but over time it can become very organic that they are dipping in they're dipping out depending on other actions that they are taking or things that they're doing in a digital environment.
I think it's yeah, like you say, it's not set in stone. We're learning all the time. And if something's not working or if we think something else would work better, we can then edit the workflows add stuff in take stuff out to make it more relevant.
So for anyone who's listening, who has found that really, really interesting, but may have completely gone over your head do by all means, look to book a call, to speak to James. He loves talking about HubSpot. He loves talking about automation and he can sort that stuff out for you. So if it sounds great, but you're thinking grrrrr okay, but not sure where to go now that's probably your next move. One of the things I want to discuss and get your guys' opinion on is value added.
There's been a lot of noise on social media and traditional media, whether it's email marketing, whether it is in-person event and it's all about making sure that people are adding value to their customer's lives. Obviously we've banged on a little bit about buyer persona which is really important because how you identify what's important to the people who matter. Value creation is something else that hasn't changed.
The most important thing as a business is that you add value to your ideal customer's lives. There are various different models for it, but like a very simple thing on social media is you should be adding value, 80% of the time and then the 20% of the time, maybe promotional stuff like sharing a link to a new downloadable or a new blog post or a podcast. So make sure you check out socials that's pops then.
But it's making sure that whatever problems, whether it's using a product or if it's just in their day-to-day life, but around your product, around your industry, you are adding that bit of value that is being helpful. You're building that relationship that trust is getting greater. And then when it comes to buying time, your customers will only be going to one place. What are your guys' take on value?
Everything we should do should help our customers or people who are leads to try and sort of identify and help with their problems. James and I were in a HubSpot Course, which is all about sales. And the teaching basically was you don't phone up somebody to sell them stuff. You phone them up to see if they've got a problem. See if you can help them. If you don't get a sale out of it, that's fine.
You've helped them in the future when they have a bigger problem or they haven't been able to solve their problem. Where are they going to go to, they're going to go to somebody who's helped them before. And if you're that person who's helped them before they'll come in this, help them before they're, going to come back to you because, okay, you didn't make the sale the first time but a year down the line, you might have a bigger sale, they might have grown as company.
So yeah, we've all had sales call on our phones where it's just somebody talking at you for five minutes and you've just not got time for it, and it's wasting everyone's time. They know that 99 times out of a hundred, they're not going to make a sale out of it. So why not just be helpful?
I agree. I think, I think we've had one scenario that happens all the time with us. If people will phone up and they have heard about us and they want us to help with some strategy or it could be anything actually, to be honest, We've had people phone up and they're kind of going, right. We want, we've got X amount. We're doing this with it at the moment. And it's working. And we will say, well, hang on a minute.
If it's working, if it's all going very, very well why'd you want to take that budget and give it to us to come up with some kind of strategy or something else and they just wanted reassurance that what they had done by themselves was the right way of doing it. And in this instance, I'm thinking of it was all around. It was all around pay-per-click and they were putting their money into pay-per-click to target their, their buyer personas.
And I said, absolutely nothing wrong with what you're doing, but they didn't have any other budgets at that time because they were very small and to be able to improve that would mean reducing their pay per click campaign, allocating that money somewhere else. So which I said, well, hang on a minute, you are hitting your capacity just through this one pay-per-click campaign.
If you're looking for growth and you want to change your business and you are taking on somebody else, then you could possibly just increase that pay-per-click campaign, if it's working well, then you should bring in more customers and the more business through it. Why change that? And again, I think it was, as I said, it was just down to them wanting somebody else to tell them that what they were doing was right.
So I had a call with them to understand the business, to understand how it was working for about an hour. Didn't charge for it. And we got absolutely glowing review from them on Google reviews and in the future, when they do grow. I would quite happily put down some money that, where they're going to go for that advice. Again, they're going to come back to us when their budgets have increased and when they are looking to grow that company. And that's what it's about.
I'm not upset at all that I have just helped a local company grow. And increase their turnover because it's what we have always set out as our goal, our goal, as odd as this is going to sound isn't to make shit ton of money, it is to help companies grow. Now we have to make. Because unfortunately I need to pay bills as does everybody else, but that isn't our goal. Our goal isn't to make money. It's kind of almost a by-product of our real goal, which is to help companies.
But to be a company, to be a successful company, you have to add in some kind of monetary system to that, but we're sticking to our goals. We are helping companies and as a consequence our clients pay us money to help them because they can see that benefit.
So jumping in, I lost count of the amount of times I've spoken to friends or leads about Method. I'm sort of proud to work for the company. Like James said, it's not all about money. I've spoken to so many people and I said, we can help you, like James said if you've got a small budget and you ring up and say, this is working I want to pile more money into it. James will say, well, where are you having problems?
What's blocking you from doing other stuff and he'll dig down and find problems in the company or their strategies, and almost redirect that money to something that is going to help them more. I've had friends ring up James, just to have. And James is happy to have a chat with them for an hour or two, just to sort of give them advice. If it's something we can't help with, we're honest, we will say look we can't help you with that, or we're not the best avenue to spend your money on yet.
Which is adding value because other companies, will just take the money and run and you will get nothing from that, whereas we can help you along the way we can give you the advice. If it's not spending money with us, it's not spending money with us, down the line when they've got a bigger budget, they might come back and say they were really helpful. Well I want to give them the money to help get them to help me increase my business.
I think there's also a big point here, which is time-wasting and I think we're long in the tooth now and understand the difference between somebody who genuinely will give us something back through spending an hour of my time with them over somebody who I can spend an hour talking to who is just reaping as much as they possibly can out of our expertise. And there is a big, big difference there genuinely.
If we are helping companies grow, who wants to kind of learn, of us and appreciate what we're doing. And I think that comes back to any company. You know, if you're working with people who don't appreciate what you're doing or what you're trying to achieve with them, then it's probably not a good fit. Now we will have people phone up who you can tell straight away. You just want to get something for nothing that's not what we're talking about here.
We're talking about helping companies who really have a desire to do something and want to flex their muscles, but don't necessarily know how, or can't really get on that journey straight away. Now we will also talk to big organizations around some strategy and spend some time with them, but that is a completely different conversation because again, they want our expertise, but are in the position where they can actually pay for that hour or pay for those two hours.
so I think Understanding the difference between helping somebody who is not a time-waster, and helping somebody who is genuine, you will always get something back, even if it's a review, even if it's. It's there's the traditional, you scratch my back and something will always come of it. Again, it takes time to maybe understand where those time-wasters are. And who just wants to take advantage of you and I think a lot could be said about that throughout the whole of life.
Yeah, I think that's a really interesting insight from both of you. In terms of that value added and making sure, obviously you're giving it to the right people, but you're also not pigeonholing anyone. So it's kind of wrap this one up keep it brisk into the pace.
I just want to kind of go around and see what you're thinking is the most exciting element for business in 2022, I'll kick us off and say, I can't wait to see how businesses innovate, how they adapt to the next normal that the world's entering, we see more businesses digitise online experiences from tasting sessions to cocktail making with their friends, to digital experiences, safari via zoom.
All of these kinds of things are really interesting so I can't wait to see the mix great people and what they do, that's kind of from me. So James, I come over to you. What, what are you looking forward to?
I agree. And I think you've probably nicked everybody's idea there of of what everybody was just about to say Jamie I think you're exactly right. I think all businesses have had to change over the last two years. I think some people have had to get things in place very, very quickly. I think now we've had a chance to step back.
So all I'm doing on this is just adding the cherry on top of exactly what you've just said, we haven't had time to implement things, we've had to rush into a lot of business changes very, very quickly. So I think kind of building on what you've said, I think now we've had this time and we've now got this time to, okay. It's in place. How can we improve that? What's next for that particular business. I'm genuinely quite excited about 2022.
I think a lot is going to come out of it in terms of a digital avenues, a dead end. So not a lot's going to come out of a digital avenue. I'm excited about what's going to come out of 20 22 and all of the, the new innovation that's going to have to appear. So. Yeah, I think from my point of view, I think it's businesses, which now I've got that room to grow.
They've done the initial, what we had to do that they've done that firefighting it's now that next level, this is where the clever stuff was going to start that.
Yeah, I agree straightaway with Jamie and James that there were enforced changes over COVID. There were businesses that had to change or they would collapse. Now they have changed and they were forced to change. They can realize that they are able to change their business. The fears gone in change so I've quite excited to see what happens with the innovation of companies changing now through choice rather than a necessity.
Another thing quite excited to see is a lot of startup companies over COVID, a lot of people lost their jobs or were furloughed. And a lot of people weren't just twiddling their thumbs at home taking the 80% of their wages, they were thinking of new businesses or that little dream that they've had for a while, or they've had the time and money to realize those, some of them are going to take off a lot of them are going to fail.
That's just business, but it would be interesting to see what started in lockdown as a project that it could become a national multinational company.
Well, they went and finally say subscribe to the podcast. Right?
and follow their buyer personas and their smart marketing goals.
Excellent.
Lovely. Cheers. Both. Thanks for your time. Hopefully again, it was something useful, slightly longer episode this time, but obviously when you get three guys talking generally what happens if you have any questions for me On my email, james@hellomethod.co.uk. Also jump onto our website where some of the stuff that we've been discussing today, I think buyer personas, there's a nice little resource on our website, which is hello, method.co.uk. Make sure you follow us across the social media.
I think we're on pretty much all of them, some of which I don't even know exist. So until next time stay open-minded and we'll see you again soon.