M what's exposing my genitor? Oh no, no, no, I gotta stop myself on that one. Sophie's not here, Uh, Cody and Katie are, And I am ashamed that I even tried that one. In my defense, we were talking about chat roulette. We were that the whole context of that joke makes it better. We were just talking about because then you just let it fly real quick. But we will not be informing the listeners at the context.
But I will inform them that my co host today are Katie Stole, Cody Johnson, some news and even more news news of a network dot com integer. Yeah, we were really creative when we thought of these names, and yes we are all creative geniuses. Um. Well, if you have a show and you're like, how to do that, but more of it? Humble, humble, creative geniuses, humble, sexy creative geniuses. Uh sexy of well, sexy, unstoppable, creative, unstoppable, Yeah, powerful,
you should probably had a second humble in there too. Um. I mean what we were, what we really are is is news grifters. But today we're talking about a less ethical kind of grifter. Free speech grif yes, but free speech is important. It is. And also this is behind the bastards, the body in all history. And forget to announce things because I'm hanging out with my buds and not doing my job. We're doing against. Sophie is not here,
which is why I have a podcasting machetes. Does not let me bring my eighteen inch long machete, but I have it. Let fly with it in your hands. Oh yeah, you can fly with machetes. You can before you all know, he's justesturing with it. And I said, when he said, oh yeah, you can fly with machetes, he pointed it right at me. Well you're a good two three ft away. It's true. Yeah, like this this paper. Yeah, it's just it's gesturing. It's a tool. I wouldn't describe it as
wildly brandishing your machete. No, no, no, because I have not started drinking. When I will be drinking is when we do our election year podcast, and then I will be drunkenly gesturing with machete. Perhaps at Sea Pack, maybe definitely, it's maybe definitely at Sea Pack. It's going to be a I got my lanyard. We're gonna phone record at all Yeah, yeah you can. We can name the video
masch Saniard. Well, we should probably get into content that will be enjoyable for people who aren't the three of us. If you're not interested in the Machanyard podcast, then okay, okay, um, how are you guys doing? I didn't that on this? Thank you talking for hours? Alright, yeah, okay, good, good, good,
We're good. We're well cool. All right, Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna get into this and it's not focused around a person, which is my norm, but it's focused around some people, and I think folks will find a bastards beastards. Over the last few years, particularly since two thousand sixteen, the cause of free speech has become one of the most vicious and blood soaked battlegrounds in our national culture war.
It's a unique one, too, because while most of America's political fuffles revolve around issues like abortion air gun rights, where there really is little common ground, free speech is a thing that everyone, at least in theory, supports. Big Fan, Big Fan, I love speaking freely, Big Fan love shouting freely. Fran over here with their shouting big Fran BF now uh. In August third, two eighteen, famous tabloid The New York Post published an article titled how Liberals turned against free speech.
It opens with this line, why is it considered liberal to compel others to say or fund things they don't believe? That's a question raised by three Supreme Court decisions this year, And it's a puzzling development for those of us old enough to remember when liberals champion free speech, even advocacy of sedition and can servatives wanted government to restrain or limited. So that's the that's the opening of the article. And
the three cases were. Two of them were one California case overturning the statute that required anti abortion pregnancy centers to inform clients of where they could obtain abortions uh and the reversal of a forty one year old president which stated that public employees didn't have to pay union fees to cover the cost of collective bargaining. And the third was one of those stupid fucking cases about a Christian bakery not wanting to of course for gig people.
Classic at least of all these stories confuse me as to how, like that abortion thing, what about that's free speech? Like not informing That's a great question, that's a great question.
I'm gonna I'm gonna dig into that one specific um, but I do want to note that the Post article quotes Neil Ferguson, who argues that liberals are increasingly authoritarian, and it ends on this line, like the liberal Supreme Court justices who see no constitutional problem with compelling crisis pregnancy centers to send messages they find repugnant, or acquiring union members to subsidize political speech they disagree with, or
force and people to participate in ceremonies prohibited by their religion. They seem not to have noticed Yale law professor Steven Carter's observation that every law is violent because behind every exercise of law stands the sheriff. Carter calls for a degree of humility in passing and enforcing laws that compel speech against conscience. Something today's liberals seem to have forgotten. Liberals is in quotation, Yeah, I gotta get those square quotes, and yeah, so it's easy to see you, I can
see how someone might be convinced by that line of reasoning. Um, Like if if someone believes abortion is wrong and they open a clinic to help pregnant women in crisis, it's good to help pregnant women in crisis, and people who think abortion is wrong shouldn't be required to push people towards abortion doctors. That's an argument you could make, and it's an argument that if you have exactly that much evidence available to you, is there's logic to it on
the surface. Yeah, Now, when you read a little bit more into these centers, it becomes easier to see the authoritarian liberal argument as to why that maybe doesn't include all of the relevant facts. I mean a quote from a report by the a M, a famed liberal lobbying group. All of the doctors. Drive down any highway in America and you might see a sign pregnant Scared called phone number first. Often these signs of advertisements for crisis pregnancy
centers CPCs. CPCs sometimes known as pregnancy resource centers, pregnancy care centers, pregnancy support centers, or simply pregnancy centers, or organizations that seek to intercept women with unintended or crisis pregnancies who might be considering abortion. And then a little further down it notes CPCs as a rule not only discourage abortion, but also refused to provide referrals to abortion clinics, although they often provide counseling about dangers associated with premarital
sexual activity. Women who visit CPCs typically do not realize that they are not in an abortion clinic and are surprised to find that abortion is not considered an option at these centers. As obstetrician gynecologists, we have had several disgruntled patients come to us who are disappointed and felt deceived by the care that they had received at CPCs. It's not as it's not I'm not going as simple as these do gooders being forced to speak against their will.
It's somebody dressing up a religious mission as a medical exactly. Yeah, yeah, cool cool. So if you're pregnant and you go there and you feel like you're in crisis and you're pregnant, one of their solutions is to teach about the dangers of premar Yeah, is that affect. It's It's kind of like if you go into the doctor with lung cancer after life of smoking, the doctors will say, well, if you try not fucking smoking. You know smoking is bad for you, you know, but you know those cigarettes aren't
good for you. Put on this film strip real quick about how smoking is bad not doing you know favors. I love doctors that are helpful. There's a lollipop on your way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that specific story bugs me. Yeah, it's frustrating. That's why that's the one I chose to focus on, because it frustrated me too. Um So, yes, if you read into a little bit, it becomes clear that, despite how it was framed by The New York Post, this is not a pro or
anti free speech argument. Instead, it's an argument over whether or not religious organization should be allowed to masquerade fraudulently as medical practitioners and lie about health care options, which is maybe maybe a little different than see maybe mumb mumble, mumble mumble. Now, the fight over Christis pregnancy counseling centers is emblematic of the broader debate over free speech currently
consuming our national discourse. Take a serious political issue that has nothing to do with the First Amendment, rap it in that cloak intard the other side of being anti free speech, so they have to defend themselves on that front rather than actually debate you over the harms of what you're doing. Strategy smart works. It's like if you're hunting a deer instead of camouflaging yourself. You dress yourself up as another deer, but with a gun for a mouth.
This may not in fact be an analogy. It's perfect. Then you got to argue with that gun mouth deer instead of well, you're clearly you're a hunter and you're not a gunmouth, dear. But now I'm I want to debate that gunmouth to dear well. And you know that old, that old, that old chestnut of country wisdom. Nobody ever wins a debate with a gunmouth to dear well, you can't because as soon as he tries to talk a bullets exactly exactly. That's a good, good argument from the gunmouth, dear.
Thank you for embracing my I still don't think it's an analogy of perfect analogy. My perfect analogy deally lost the thread, but I'm on, Thank you, Thank you. Also, just full disclosure. I mix up analogies and similes to metaphors, all of it. Metaphors. Oh my god, participles dangling. Those aren't related at all. No, no they're not, but it
makes me uncomfortable to think about things dangling, particularly participles. Yeah, anyway, the free speech grift as it's been coined by some critics, has risen to become the centerpiece of right wing politics because it is so much easier than actually arguing the merits of aggressive policies and abortion, racial justice, or anything else.
It is brilliant strategy because it allows them to co opt the support of a sizeable number of moderates and liberals who are either too dumb to see what's happening or who are eager to capitalize on the grift themselves. In fact, the origins of our modern free speech grift trace back to a two fifteen article in The Atlantic titled the Coddling of the American Maya. Yeah you like you know, like that? Yeah, you're almost touching your nipples cotting. Yeah,
I'm very exciting now. The article written by Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Hate. Or the article is written by Greg Lukianof and Jonathan Hate, And the thrust of it is that political correctness has completely overtaken American campuses, assuring in a terrifying new era where art is censored and languages destroyed to please howling hordes of liberal zombie I so
obsessed with these college campuses. They are big fans of college campuses, you know how like college, this is where like you learn and like you do some dumb stuff and like maybe you make things uh to be more than they are, and then you sort of grow out of it, and then like you go into the world. Yeah maybe you try. Yeah, maybe you put cocaine up your butt a couple of times you realize it's not good, and then you can go into the world and you snort cocaine like an adult. Point is how it's done.
That's how it's done. This is the one problem facing America today. That's what I was getting a college. College and PC culture and culture. You know, Let's not try to be courteous and empathetic to other people. Let's not try to listen to other people in their perspectives. It's just fuck them because it's it's violence to me. If you say that kind of made me feel bad. Yeah, I'm deeply offended that I offended you. I'm gonna quote
from the article. For example, some students have called for warnings that China Chebes Things Fall Apart describes racial violence, and that f Scott Fitzgerald's The Great catsbeat or trays misogyny and physical abuse, so that students who have been previously victimized by racism or domestic violence can choose to avoid these works, which did they believe might figger a recurrence of past trauma. Some recent campus actions border on
the surreal. In April, at Brandeis University, the Asian American Student Association sought to raise awareness of microaggressions against Asians through an installation on the steps of an academic hall. The installation give examples of microaggressions such as aren't you supposed to be good at math? And I'm color blind I don't see race, but a backlash arose among other Asian American students who felt that the display itself was
a microaggression. The association removed the installation, and its president wrote an email to the entire student body apologizing to anyone who was triggered or hurt by the content of the microaggressions. So that's the that's the that's the what they're what they're what they're complaining about, the coddling in the American mind. Yeah, okay, that, um, that one small story, Um has changed my mind about this about this issue.
Well yeah, yeah, see that that's what they do in the articles they pick out a couple of stories where it's pretty easy, Okay, yeah, that's a group of that's a group of people may be behaving in a way that I would consider a little bit unreasonable or like that's or at least the way that it's characterized makes it seems like they might be a little unreasonable. But it's not interestingly enough for logic ration people like the
folks who tend to be on the script. It doesn't delve much into actual I just tapped my papers on the table for influence UH statistics to tell us maybe if this is a I wonder if that information is available. It is here. I do have it right here courtesy of I didn't do the research myself, being a hack and a fraud, but I did find the research done by the Nscanon Center, a nonpartisan than tank dedicated to
fostering an open society. They collected data from a number of studies on the beliefs of the Eye generation a k A. Generation Z a k A the kids who are in high school and college currently, and it turns out these kids are less likely to strongly favors free speech bands than any other age group. So actually kids in college right now are the least likely to support any restrictions on freedom of speech. Quote. A decade of data from the Night Foundation on high school students tells
a similar story. Support for the First Amendment is currently at its strongest level yet recorded, with a majority of high schoolers fifty percent disagreeing with the statement the First Amendment goes too far in the rights it protects. Note that there is no change during the years when Eigen
would be entering high school. And contrary to hates theory about the relationship between social media and free speech, the Night Foundation survey also found that high schoolers who actively engage with news on social media, discussing stories, posting comments, and leaking to articles consistently demonstrate greater support for free speech, not less interesting. So maybe taking isolated incidents that are
sort of like charged with emotion. Yeah, of the thousands and thousands of campuses in the country and hundreds of thousands, and then pinpointing and saying like this is a nation, this is every college scientific Yeah, maybe it's complete nonsense. Maybe he's intellectually dim, Yeah, maybe just lying. Can we say playing on a podcast, I think we can, well, you can bleep it. We can believe it. You know, I'm gonna make a bleeping noise by hitting this empty
Lacroix can with a machette. And we can just we can put that in a post. It's a good idea. Don't worry, it's fine. Can Well, we'll post that every good. It's the best I've ever heard. Thank you. Okay, And now you've got a place to put your knife. I know now, it's not that. It's a nice little machete holder. Yeah, I made a little pocket for it. Everything works out. Yeah. I like that about the world now. Uh. The NIS
Canon Center Uh. Summary also notes that in a later article Hate and another writer's site that two thousand seventeen Night Foundation study that was just quoted above to make the same point, noting a rise in the number of college students who say the climate on my campus prevents some people from saying things they believe because others might find them offensive. The rises from two sixteen to six
in two thousand seventeen. But Hate and his co author and neglect to mention that two thousand sixteen in two thou seventeen are the only years for which data on that question is available, making it essentially meaningless as a way to identify a trend. They also insinuate that this increase in censorship is driven by liberal and leftist students. However, quote this increase is being driven by perceptions of self
censorship among about crats and independence. The number of Republican students who reported a cinsorious climate on campus actually dropped from six. Cool. Uh you love to laugh, you love intellectual honesty. Yeah, Um, this is uh wholly unsurprising. I don't think I've seen this data you referring to. I saw a similar report about this, and there's actually quite a lot of data. Yeah, um, basically yeah, saying the same thing that like, uh, the perception is actually the
opposite of reality. Yeah, and uh and this is like you can see this kind of generally throughout history of like a lot of the left gets censored. People who actually want society to change in massive fundamental ways often censored themselves often. Um, and uh, even just like professors, Like definitely professors get censored a lot more than any
of these people. And we'll get into that. Oh good, yeah, yeah, Now, that nis Cannon study does also note that, according to a two seventeen YouGov study, conservative students were more likely to report censoring themselves in the classroom versus and outside of it vers But even this data does not tell the entire story. A survey conducted by CATO and YouGov notes that fifty percent of Americans nationwide reports self censoring
their views among other people. Conservative college students are actually less likely to report censoring themselves than conservative Americans outside of colleges, and liberals on college campuses sinser themselves more often than liberals in the general population. Um so are you suggesting that that is the opposite again? Yeah, maybe maybe a little bit the opposite. I'm just clarifying. I
I'm just clarifying. Thank you for clarity. Is important? Again, unsurprising? Yeah. So, In other words, the entire story of free speech suppression on American college campuses is a lie. The reality is literally the opposite. In spite of this, right wing groups like Turning Point USA, Cody's Favorite, My Favorite, my Favorite fellows Yeah, have raised hundreds of thousands of dollars to influence political elections on college campuses and crusade against safe
spaces at their campus clash events. Uh. Their two thousand nineteen tour include speakers like tp USA founder Charlie Kirk, Donald Trump Jr. Candice Owens, and Kyle cash Of who recently got his Harvard invitation assented for writing racial slurs in several text messages to classmates and an open Google doc. Cool. Are you suggesting that the president's son is being censored? Oh? Yeah, that point saying that the president son has a free speech problem and the suck to be the president's son
and to be so rich. It's a shame when millionaires funded by billionaires, Uh, just say lies and someone gets angry at someone, and that is the death of free speech. Someone getting angry at a millionaire being paid by billionaires to lie. That censorship, That censorship, criticism, oppression, guys, call it what it is. I should also note that free speech bastion tp USA donors include such luminaries as Greg Ganforte assaulted a Guardian journalist for asking him questions. I
didn't know Greg was involved with them. Thousands and thousands of the guy who assaulted a journalist for asking a question. You guys want to hear an unrelated quote from Thomas Jefferson. Absolutely, we're left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. Interesting, you know, it goes well with those gestures. Products services also,
but yes, products, Yes, you were right, Katie. I was so excited to get one right. You did, you got it, you nailed it. Would you like to throw in a free ad for something? This is your this is your time. I'd like time in here. Well, right now I'm craving gummy bears, so I'd like to throw in an ad for gummy bears. The concept of gummy bears, bouncing, hippie hopping it all around the forest, fantastic, filled with juicy flavors, juicy flavors, gummy bears filled with juicy flavors. I love
eating candy I find in the forest. Yeah, forest candy
the best kind of candy. But also it's when you wanted the most, Like I imagine you hungry in the forest and you're not sure when you're with some friends years back in the Texas in the summer and we had a big bag of gummy candy and we left it outside and it all melted together into one giant, like four pounds like ball, of so good, beautiful, fucking so tasty, all the flavors in one, well, if you want all the flavors in one by the products advertized,
We're back for a flawless ad pit. Really, thank you, Katie. Oh you're you know what, You're welcome, You're you're so much better. You are nailed it. Humbly good, humbly good, humbly good. Uh yeah, So, Turning Point USA doesn't just sponsor speeches and debates on college campuses to foster free speech. They also compile and maintain a professor watch list, which is definitely a thing that sounds good for free speech. As a watch list of professors, yeah. Typical of the
list is the entry for Professor Betsy Stevenson. Quote. Betsy Stevenson is an associate professor of economics at the University of Michigan. Stevenson made the list after making the claim that the lack of women found in economics textbooks is the reason so few women pursue economics as a major. In a study she conducted with Hannah's Latnick, she found that seventy of people found in the leading economics textbooks were mail. That sounds like a reason to be on
a watch list for her research and speech fire her. Um, yeah, this is uh now, maybe it's a watch list of good researchers. Stuff that's true. Maybe I should read the next paragraph. Maybe you should, Maybe I should. Can't agree
with you more. When the watch list was originally created in November of sixteen, t p U SA writer Matt Lamb described its purpose thus, Lee, we aimed a post professors who have records of targeting students for their viewpoints, forcing students to adopt a certain perspective, and or abuse or harm students in any way for standing up for their beliefs. Okay, do you want to read your example
again from earlier? Oh my god, Well she's sensitive little tweets she claimed that women were unrepresented in economics textbooks and then proved it with rigorous data. Well that's threatening. I feel attacked, and I think you should apologize to us both, Katie, because I'm a woman, exactly, I refuse. Wow. I think I think I know a watch list you're going I always wanted if you want to watch it. I feel need now to join Turning Point USA, which
incidentally has them. I feel the need to go up to Gregg Gianforte ask him a question to get hit in the face. Uh, well, that's uh. I'll leave that to you. I'll get on the watch list of speech. We can all do different parts of it. Yeah, we're all. We're all just different free speeches. Cool fitness. Cannon study also looked into the frequency with which college faculty members are fired due to criticism from the left and the right. The results are fascinating, and I'd like to quote from
that study again to begin to answer this question. I gathered together all cases from two thousand fifteen to two seventeen involving number one, a faculty member and an American degree granting post secondary nonprofit institution who was fired, slash, resigned as part of a settlement, or demoted, denied promotion due to speech that perceived by critics as political. Okay,
it seems reasonable. What remains are forty is from two thousand, fifteen, two and seventeen where a faculty member was fired, resigned, or demoted, denied promotion due to speech tamed by critics is political. Of these, more than half twenty six occurred, seen the clear majority nineteen being over liberal speech. This disparity persists even after removing terminations occurring in private religious institutions.
For liberals, the most common types of speech to result in termination where those perceived by critics as anti white or anti Christian. For conservatives, that were anti minority or anti diversity, now because their diligent this. Cannon notes that the higher frequency of professors being caned for left wing speech may have more to do with the fact that there are more left wing professors than right wing professor is absolutely a factor. Um so because they're let's not
be mean with our facts. Facts are facts. Do care about their feelings? I got it. I got a D on my history paper because I'm conservative. That's why my history of paper was just why was Hitler the bad guy? He shouted at the people, I shout at the whole thing about how the Civil War was only about states rights? And they gave me a D. And I was like, what is because of my I voted Republican. It's censorship. I agree, it's censorship because as far as I'm aware,
there was never any slavery in the South. I learned that from my sheltered upbringing. I guess, well, you know, I my history textbook went from the founding of humanity to one and then started right back up again in you get all the key parts. Yeah, skip the nonsense, skip the skip all that bullshit, Yeah, get right back into the good stuff right in the roar and eighties. So yeah, Well, there's no evidence that conservative voices are
being silenced in academia. This data does not necessarily suggest that the opposite is happening. However, quote the size of the disparity in two thousand seventeen Bears Watching is it may mark the beginning of a trend in precarious liberal speech. A proper assessment would also need to take stock of the data ugorization issues surrounding religious institutions. Determinations for political speech especially difficult to capture. So, like actual researchers, you
care about facts. Even when they have a lot of data that this canon, people hesitate to draw conclusions that are overly broad based on the information they have because they're trying to do actual research, as opposed to picking out a single issue on a single campus and saying, look at what these liberals are doing to free speech. Well, now I don't know what to think. Now you don't know. They seem like two equally credible people yeah. I mean,
on the one hand, whatever dumb ship you said. On the other hand, this report, So we're going to do join TUSA. Yeah. Now, while we're on the subject of professors, we should probably talk a little bit about Cody's favorite professors. Doctor Jordan's fucking Piers was waiting because as soon as you said professor watch list, like yeah, it was the only person to talk to about after this. Yeah, now doctor professor Peterson describes some Stordan Peterson bad boy Peterson.
He describes himself as quote a classic British liberal who defends individual freedom from collectivists. Now he has a particular hatred for the Ontario Institute for the Studies of Education. The organization's mission statement seems mild enough, which is, you know,
a little bit confusing. It says that its goal is to prepare scholars, teachers, and other professional leaders to be equipped with the skills in global awareness required by an increasingly challenging and complex society, ready to influence policy and practice in their fields. But Peterson takes issue with what I suspect is that last line, claiming the o I
S is basically a training ground for dastardly social justice warriors. Sorry. Uh. In a two an teen interview with Epic Times, he stayed at the Ontario Institute for the Studies of Education. That bloody thing is a fifth column. The people who are producing the educators that emerge from that institute, they should be put on trial for treason. Like it's serious stuff.
The idea is that the purpose of education is to get them while they're young in kindergartens, that this radical postmodern Marxist ideology can be so thoroughly inculcated when they're young they have no chance of escaping from it. And that's what's happening in the education system. This paranoid maniac. They need to be tried for treason. Precise in your speech, Cody takes off his glasses and puts his head in
his hands. Just everyone is the visual I have. You know how you know when you play like an Xbox and you're playing a video game and they've got all these different like little awards you can win for doing shooting people in the head or whatever. My my one for this podcast is going to be giving Cody an embolism getting there god quote Yeah, it's his entire self in sentence. Yeah, Yeah, these people are teaching things I don't like. They should be on trial for I love
free speech. This is like yeah. Additionally, back in two thousand seventeen, to Canadian Broadcasting Corporation reported that doctor professor Jordan Peterson planned to a build a website listing university courses in Canada that had what he claimed were postmodern, neo Marxist course content. He told CTV, We're going to start with the website in the next month and a half. That will be designed to help students and parents identify
post modern content and courses so that they can avoid them. Yeah. Now there's created a bit of an uproar. According to the website Inside Higher Education quote and a YouTube video posted to his personal account, he highlighted English literature, anthropology, sociology, women studies, and ethnic studies as the types of courses that quote that have to go. Professors at the University of Toronto expressed concern that they would be targeted by such a list, which also led to fears of harassment.
Instructors of the potentially targeted courses believe that they're auto to me as educators maybe under threat. The proposed website has created a climate of fear and intimidation, the University of Toronto Faculty Association set in a statement to Canadian media Now. Shortly thereafter, free speech warrior doctor Professor Jordan Peterson, professor doctor announced on Twitter that he had shelved for now his plans to build a website listing courses he
thought should be banned, like women's studies. Good, yeah, I was about to ask you. You did say women's right, who would need to study women? You did say anthropology, right, yes, Also sociology, also ethnic studies. Also English literally English literature be banned. The fact they don't that should be bad. Have to go to Okay, let's not say that would be the wrong word. Band, have to go. He's being censored for his and we should be taking him seriously.
Famous censored millionaire doctor, Professor Jordan Peterson, who only eats meat, who only eats beef and salt and water coops. I'm sure fascinating, unbelievable. They are unbelievable poops. Yeah, they're unfathomable poops. He's got um. This is the man who um had literal apocalyptic dreams about the end of the world and wanted to start a church and believes that his wife has prophetic dreams. If he is the special boy who's going to save the world from destabilization to destruction. I'm
not making this up now. In a different era, this man, while he is scary, would be a worldwide threat of some sort. Yeah, it sounds a little I don't want to say hitlery, you know, That's what I was going at, dreams of you saving the world from a one could say cultural Marxism. He might have a different word for it, savior syndrome type thing. Because there's a natural there's a
natural order. Um. I think we need to spell out really directly why you and I see Nazi peralilels and someone what's going on, because it is a little bit obscured. I had actually an argument with this about my dad recently because he doesn't understand like that when people talk about cultural Marxism, Um, when they when that, which is a big thing for Jordan people, that's what he's saying.
That's what he said it before. What's the exact wording he says postmodern neo Marxisms, like he talks about how they switched it and stuff like that. But there are other clips of him talking about literally cultural Marxisms. Yeah. Yeah, so it's like he clearly used one term and then
switched to another term. The idea cultural Marxism comes from fucking Nazi propaganda in the twenties and thirties when they called it cultural bolshevismos or something like that, and the idea was both that Marxism was infiltrating society and specifically that it was infiltrating society through the Jews. And we're trying to like undermine this is why we we see when we make snide comments about Dr Jordan Peterson may
kind of bascists, we're not like reaching super far. There was this ideology that was this attitude of cultural Marxism. That's the thing that exists that was created by the
Nazis to justify what they did to the Jews. And then a new generation of people has just sort of cut the Jews out of cut the Judeo out of Judaeo Bolshevis, and but they're like, no, there's still cultural bolt It's now like it's like the liberal academia and the left like radical leftist and their cultural like and how like it's uh an amalgam of of these groups
that are doing this instead of just the Jews. Yeah, um, and uh, it's the it's yeah, the line is very clear and like it's it's one of the things like, no, Jordan Peterson isn't a Nazi. He would have been. Yeah, but it's not. Even so there's that, but even beyond that, someone that says that, oh my wife had a prophetic dream that I am this your type person, or someone that says, you know what, yeah, only eating meat that'll cure depression. And I want to open up church and
want to open a church. We need to ban women's studies at studies that for apology, which is just like that's absolutely nuts. So that's somebody that's a maniac. I don't know how else you describe him. And if you get into power, this person gets into a power, it's terrified. Yeah, he's got I don't want to I don't want to oversell the state of the threat, but if Dr Jordan Peterson gets his way, we will lose the best season of Community. Are we really willing to Absolutely? No, window, No, no, no,
it's a good show. It's great. It's a great show. A high note. Yeah that was actually really except gone but yeah, that was that was Oh yeah, no, that both of all the actors they brought in for the azing. Yeah. I enjoyed it a lot. Writing is perfect, really yeah, nice note cheers me up a little bit every time. Yeah, we've gotten well. Love of dragon. Now let's talk about free speech warrior Dr Jordan Peterson, who was a big fan of free speech, big fan of free speech, clearly
huge lover of free speech. In June of two nineteen, the Doctor Professor was invited to speak at the Brain Bar in Budapest by Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orban. Mr Orbon wanted to speak with a doctor professor about current political issues. According to New York Magazine quote, The Orbon friendly news outlet Hungry Today described their meeting as an amiable conversation about the dangers of a legal immigration, political correctness,
and Jean Claude Junker's apology. As for Karl Marks, Peterson and Orbon also touched on a current tendency to minimize the crimes committed under communist regimes. They cited an infamous speech by European Commission President Jean Claude Junker, in which they said he defended Carl Marks. Now, if you lean a little bit more towards the conservative end of the spectrum, and you have not kept a pace with Hungarian politics, you may not immediately see what's so funked up about.
Victor Orbon is an avowed advocate of what he calls alliberal democracy a k a. Not really democracy at all illiberal. In his two thousand eighteen acceptance speech, he declared, an into the era of liberal democracy. We have replaced a shipwrecked liberal democracy with a twenty first century Christian democracy which guarantees people's freedom security. It supports the traditional family motto of model of one man and one woman, keeps anti Semitism at bay, and gives a chance for growth.
M free speech lover Victor Orbon now after his election he passed a series of punitive laws and launched a propaganda campaign that forced the Central European University to withdraw from his country. New York Magazine describes them as a liberal institution whose avowed purpose was to protect the open society from a from authoritarianism of the right or left. They also note that at the nation's remaining colleges, Orbon has banned fields of study that conflict with the state's
conception of truth. And will Orban identifies as in the Liberal Democrat. His party has insulated its power against the threat of popular rebuke to such a degree that many scholars describe his regime as a creeping dictatorship. Now, in a teen interview, Dr Peterson himself agreed that Hungary's assaults on academic freedom were unacceptable, yet he agreed to sit down with Orbon and have a convivial talk about the
danger of cultural Marxism. Meanwhile, Peterson decried the idea that people ought to accept different gender pronouns for trans and non binary people as being dangerously in line with quote the Marxist doctrines that killed at least a hundred million people in the twentieth century. What what Dr Professor Jordan Peterson there expert on the world? The world? UM it's so interesting to hear him talk about UM and it's like one of those things like you don't hear him
talk about the other side of this. Um are the people that die from uh fascist extension of sort of what he espouses, You don't. It's just interesting. It's only communism people um on. He doesn't feel compelled to talk about that. It's his right, it's his right spear point
of order. Uh. Jordan B. Peterson, who's a clinical psychologist Dr. Dr Professor J. Peterson, clinical psychologist UM, has on more than one occasion on camera claimed to be an evolutionary biologist UM and a neuroscientist, two things he is not, two things that a respectable uh A professor or doctor wouldn't claim to be if they were not. UM. It
seems like perhaps he's uh adult, dishonored, dishonest. Also, he's once asked if he supported gay marriage the cultural Marxists are supporting, and he was like, well, if culture Marxist supported I wouldn't support it. So oh cool, very cool. That's a solid intellectual line to take. Now. Earlier in this episode and we started talking about the Good Doctor, I noted that he identifies personally as a classic British liberal. Probably heard that, Kay, yeah, this is not an uncommon
statement from intellectual figures on the right. Many of them identify as classical liberals. When they do so, they are putting themselves in line with an intellectual tradition that is descended in large part from a nineteenth century philosopher and British member of Parliament named John Stuart Mill in his influential essay on Liberty, Mill wrote this, there ought to exist the fullest liberty of professing and discussing as a
matter of ethical conviction. Any doctrine, however immoral, it may be considered. If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. Now on classical liberals like Peterson talk about free speech, they are calling upon the ideas they inherited from Mill, or at least the ideas they believe
they inherited from Mill. I found a great article about this on The Conversation titled the Strange Origins of Free Speech Warriors quote in truth, thinkers such as Mill were far from being libertarians, and what's more, would never have embraced the borderline absolutist position of today's free speech warriors.
Based in what is called the harm principle, Mill argued for a big government approach to situations into situations in which the exercise of liberty might result in the harm to others or even to the individual practicing it, and on liberty. He argues that parents of poor moral fiber may have their children removed from the home, and causes and calls for similar state and intervention to stop the
harms caused by gamblers, prostitutes, and the drug addicts. Even more broadly, he decides that the uncultivated cannot be competent judges of cultivation. Those who most need to be made wiser and better usually desire at least, and if they desire it would be incapable of finding the way to
it by their own light. They've got to go. Yeah. Yeah, Now, I'd be a little bit remiss in talking about the harm principle without getting into a little little bit of the history of US Jewish prudence as it relates to free speech cases. In March of nineteen nineteen, which is about a hundred years ago, Oliver Oliver Windell Holmes, Oh Homie, Classic wind Holmesy, Oh Windy, A good names whimsy. That's
a good nickname for whimsy. Supreme Court Justice wrote a series of unanimous opinions on three cases upholding the convictions and prison sentences of members of the Socialist Party. These people's crime had been writing and distributing some fifteen thousand flyers too, men who were in the process of being conscripted. The flyers argued that conscription was in voluntary servitude and
prohibited by the Thirteenth Amendment. Also involved with the court cases of Eugene Debs, a socialist presidential candidate who protested
against World War One. In a speech, Deb's and his comrades were found to have violated the Espionage and Sedition Acts, and justifying their incarceration, Holmes wrote, words which ordinarily, and in many cases would be would be within the freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment, may become subject of prohibition when of such nature and used in such circumstances as to create a clear and present danger that they will be bring about the substantive evils of which
Congress has a right to prevent. Free speech. Free speech sounds kind of Peterson, sounds a little bit petersonny. Now, Holmes went on to write a line that has since become famous. The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. That's where that comes from.
I'm gonna quote next from an article in the l a review of books by Stephen Rhode about sort of where all this ends after we we jail all these socialists for a free speech that's too dangerous to be allowed.
Only eight months later, in November nineteen nineteen, joined by his protege, Justice Brandeis, in the case Abrams v. United States Homes, would signal a dramatic and pivotal shift in his approach to the First Amendment, as recounted in the illuminating essay write Skepticism and Majority Rule at the Birth of the Modern First Amendment by Vincent Lassi Coreless Lamont, Professor of Civil Liberties at Columbia Law School, which explains
why the year nineteen nineteen deserves to inaugurate the free speech century. Holmes descent planted the fertile seeds of our modern day First Amendment jurisprudence. Holmes declared that the ultimate good desire is better reached by free trade and ideas, that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that the truth is the only ground
upon which their wishes safely can be carried out. He saw the Constitution as an experiment, as all life is an experiment. But he warned that we should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe and believed to be fraught with death, unless they so immediately threatened interference with the lawful, impressing purposes of the law, that an immediate check is required to
save the country. Okay, this is what he does. Eight months after agreeing that those socialists A would be jailed for saying the traction people slavery, now Holmes his views. The new views that he shifted to JA they would be codified in American law. Fifty years later, during the nineteen sixty nine Brandenburg v. Ohio case and another unanimous decision, the Supreme Court overturned the conviction of the KKK leader
who had led a rally of armed men. These klansmen had burnt crosses and talked about taking revenge against the Inwards and Jews that in claimed that the US government
continues to suppress the white Caucasian race. They announced plans for the fourth of July march on Washington, d C. In his pure curium opinion for the Court, Justice William Brennan wrote, the constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a state to probid or prescribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation, except where an advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and as likely to incite or produce
such action. It's interesting to me when we talk about the history of the evolution of free speech in this country that when socialists told draftees that being conscripted violated their human rights, that speech was too dangerous to be protected. But when white supremacists carried guns and promised to take vengeance on black people and Jews, the Supreme Court decided
that's explicitly protected. As long as they do say that vengeance should occur on this exact day, I would say it's unbelievable us right, yeah, man, the people threatening lives are fine. This adds up to me. Don't if you don't say a date, if I don't say if you don't say date, just say we should take revenge against the Jews. But don't say we should take revenge against the Jews on July. That's where so as long as it's not like an organized flash mob type situation. Then yeah,
good to know. Cool? No, what else is cool? Both? Oh boy, I I hope it's a dick pill ad. We really could use some dick pills. Hims, great dick pills him him. You sure about that? There's a new drug being developed for for women to make women aroused, and like that seems like incredibly it seems like complicated morally. Its like it's like like a dangerous kind of try to make available to just like two women. Um, I think it's a dangerous ring to make available to. That's
what I'm might wearing. I have no issue with women taking whatever drive all for women taking control of that. I'm concerned about men getting hold of that drug. Yes, I hear you, But you know what, I'm not concerned with services products. I was going to say, just erection drugs in general. Yeah, sure, because I don't know if you guys know this, but the climate is collapsing and sex is zero emissions. Uh the rise, it's on the rise.
It's good, it's good to have and some with all these horrible facts we read, sometimes it's hard to get an erection. So you guys should be women slipping their your dig pills and two drinks. That. Yeah, the one thing I I don't I don't know where to go. It's probably gonna be a Microsoft ad after this anyway, which oh perfect, Oh yeah, talk about it one way or the other. Buy some dick pills. That was a
free addict be Microsoft. That was so good. I think we get like like twice as much ad money from that. We get millions of dollars, millions of dollars. We'll be like Dr Jordan Peterson, I'm going to tell people to only eat meat. I do not want to be like, no, no, all right, go here's some ads. We're back from our digression. Jesus, Cody's pretending to Peter again. Peter, I've never done it a lot. I'm working on it. He's working on it.
He's doing it, getting his tight five with the comedy seller. Now, we just talked a little bit about, you know, the worrigins of free speech low and how it's evolved over the less inury. How maybe four on one side and not so much forgiven when it's really really extreme and yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe that's when it's related to human rights sort of
like the other way. Yeah, yeah, Now let's talk about the organized and well funded campaign to make sure freedom of speech continues to evolve in a very specific direction. Freedom of speech law, I should say, the concept itself, although that too. Ye ever heard of Brett Weinstein? Sure have. I was going to bring him up earlier, And here we are, and here we are. He was a biology
professor at Evergreen State College. He went viral online for opposing a protest that asked white students and faculty to stay home as part of a symbolic protest against white supremacy. Now, he was not fired for this, but he was criticized for his actions. So he resigned, sued the school, and got a bunch of money in a settlement, and then did the rounds talking to Ben Shapiro, Joe Rogan, David Reuben, and the other icons of what is now called the
intellectual dark Web. Now, another member of the intellectual dark Web, and a guess on literally all those same podcasts, is a guy named Jonathan Hate, co author of the Atlantic article The Coddling of the American Mind. Yeah, you know what I'm building to right now? The legs lately? Do your thing? Do it? I like he's explosed to it's exciting. Yeah, we can do a whole episode like this of ours talk like, we'll get you some thorzine. We'll get Cody
and I. What kind of drug makes your voice high? Helium? Helium and thorizine. Day. That's how we do the Autism one conference episode, nailing it, making plans. We're making plans, folks, is gonna be a great podcast. Let's continue the podcast. The world the current one? Yeah. Now. The intellectual dark web itself was first coined and defined by Barry Weiss, staff editor of the New York Times Opinion section. She has also been a guest on Joe Robin's podcast Now.
We noted earlier that the claims of that coddling of the American mind article don't hold up to evidence. Uh, four years of college, of course, makes people less supportive abandoning any kind of free speech, and young people are more tolerant of offensive speech than older Americans, no matter
what academic free speech grifters like Weinstein may claim. The Foundation for Individual Rights and Educations found that in two thousand and eighteen, there were a grand total of eighteen disinvitation attempts across all colleges and universities in the United States,
not all of those succeeded. Given that young people are more likely to tolerate offensive speech and that college students are less likely to support free speech restrictions in the general population, one is left wondering what all this hubbub arose from. It may have something to do with the fact that Generation Z, or the Eye generation, is further to the left than any other group in this country.
Seventy percent of them believe the government should be more involved in problem solving, say racial and ethnic diversity is good for society, compared to forty nine and forty eight percent of Baby Boomers, respectively. That yeah, Now, Generation Z also prefers socialism to capitalism by a marked majority party. And this, you might expect, is terrifying to several small but influential groups in our country. And when I say small,
I mean like two guys the Coke Brothers go. I'd like to quote next from a fantastic article in The American Prospect by Aaron Friedman, which inspired this episode. Quote. Dave Reuben's influential podcast at the Reuben Report has a financial partnership with Learned Liberty I think Tanks started by the Coke funded Institute for Humane Studies i h S,
where Charles G. Coke himself sits on the board. When the Canadian government denied Jordan Peterson funding for his work, Rebel Media, a group funded with Coke money and headed by Ezra Levant, a far right islamophobe with ties to the Coke network, raised cash for him. Peterson has since
returned the favor. Fundraising for the i h S. Ben Shapiro has collected speaker fees from the Coke funded Young Americans Foundation and Turning Point USA, and Brett Weinstein was hosted by the University of Wisconsin stouts free Speech Week, a project of their Center for the Study of Institutions in an Nations, funded by you guessed it, the Charles G. Coke Foundation. It's not just the I d W itself,
some of its key popularizers also get Coke funding. Barry Weiss and The Atlantic's Connor Freezerdorff, who has been one of the most visible defenders of Peterson in the mainstream media, have both received cash prizes from the Coke funded Reason Foundation, where David Coke himself sits on the board of trustees. And remember the coddling of the American Mind Well. One of its co authors, Greg Lukianoff, is the head of that campus free speech watchdog Fire. That organization is funded,
of course, by the Coke brothers. For good measure, at the Charles Coke Institute also did a laudatory right up of the piece. Did you mention the Daily Caller? Not yet? Oh no, yeah, they also there. The Atlantic is perhaps the worst defender. Last year, it launched the Speech Wars Are reporting project that seeks to understand where free speech
is in danger and where it has been abused. Even though the magazine had just been bought by billionaire Lareen Powell Jobs and was seeing all time high circulation web traffic, the Atlantic solicited funding for the project from none other than the Charles Coke found The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press and the Fetzer Institute were also underwriters. When I asked The Atlantic for comment, a spokesperson replied that the editorial control for the series, as with every
piece of journalism we create, restlely with The Atlantic. But the magazine refused to tonither reporters and editors with the Speech Wars Are ever in contact with the Coke Foundation editor in chief Jeffrey Goldbrick did not respond to my request for comment, and The Atlantic is not disclosed how much money it is received from the Coke Foundation. That's
actually pretty surprising for me. Yeah. The first half I was like yeah, yeah, I was like wait, what I know, and then that excuse me, I just kept going yeah, interesting all together. And they're terrified. Yeah, they are scaredy young folks. They're I mean, they're like really going forward with funding a lot of like uh centrists for the and like, yeah, they are terrified losing of literally losing
like two to of their wealth. Richard Fink, president of the Charles G. Coke Charitable Foundation, has explained this whole strategy in talking about his Structure of Social change philosophy. The basic idea is to spend Coke money in strategic waste to influence broad social change. I think believes college campuses are one of the most important places to spend money in order to institute changes. And that's why all
this is happening. The Cokes and their billionaire friends who help fund their foundation directly to fund the free speech grifters because they see what's coming a generation who wants to take their money and use it for such violins as clean water in American cities, roads and basic healthcare. They aren't scared on behalf of free speech. They're scared on behalf of their bank accounts. I mean that's it. I mean, that's it. Right there reminded me of you know,
the Daily Beas is obviously very liberal. Yeah, the thing half the time, not half the time, but every so often you go on there and they've got an article and ad mass grading as an article by the Koch brothers. They're like the Koch Brothers plan to make the world, to save the world. I think that's actually the headline where one of them was the Koch Brothers plan to save the world. Who may be advertising on this episode,
like you, there's a chance, there's non zero chancing. The um, it's always it's it's always so obvious and interesting and keeps going and going. The just the amount of projection from these people. UM. Obviously the free speech thing and the sense of ship on campus is the opposite, as we've discussed. But then like you have all these people who really go hard in on like George Soros is using is billions of dollars to like stay like all
the all that kind of stuff. But everyone who's saying that is funded by these you're show man, how did you get that idea in your head? The personal experience and like also like just even if you take it on face value, like well, who's like, what are the what's the purpose? One is like for humanitarian reasons, and one is to protect their money. Yeah, it makes me crazy that this age we live in is like not me, you know you. Yeah, it's very frustrating. It's very frustrating,
very frustrating and frustrating. I love that the media is constantly attacked for being liberal and left leaning, but even very liberal sites will regularly host op eds about how the Koch Brothers are great and libertarian is good and limits on emissions are bad. But you know you're not gonna see on the Atlantic. You know what you're gonna see in the Daily Beast is like an article on
why workers should control the means of production. Yeah, the framing of like the far left media, it's just so frustrating. I haven't seen an article about how profits are theft from workers. Yeah, I haven't seen that in a while. I haven't seen anybody. Also the media, I mean obviously
there's a bias against Trump and everything. But even at that, even talking about stuff, they're so concerned with not appearing biased that they you know, oftentimes, Yeah, it's like the fucking these people who call themselves fucking journalists and I want to just punch in the face for even using that word, who like say, look, it maybe accurate to call them concentration camps, but like it really offends people, and in order in order to have a productive conversation,
we should like, that's not journalism. That's not that's not how it works. Journalism is looking outside and being like, oh hey it's raining. Oh hey, there's a concentration camp. Look at it. It's a concentration camp. Let me describe what I see at this concentration camp. It's going to hurt the feelings of all the dry people, so make people jealous hashtag dry pride. I didn't realize Verry Weiss was also fun. Yeah, that was a surprise too. That's
a real real cool. I didn't realize the Atlantic got coke money either. Yep. Very disappointing. That's wild. Um, this is probably a torpedo in my chances to write a not bed for the Atlantic. Just give them some mad money. I'll give them some mad money for my dick pills, just like even separate from a company, just of the concept of pills that give people erections advertise what about that? It's like, what about pills for your dick? And then I'll sneak in a line about how if you if
you pay attention to the way the economy works. Whenever wages rise, the stock market falls because it's fundamentally outside of the interests of the capital holding classes for workers to make more money because that money, uh that goes to them in wages does not go to the stockholding class in profits, and as a result, that people who actually own stocks have dimetrically opposed interest to everyone listening
to this podcast, Dick Pills penises. That's I love whenever that happens, Like, oh, the stock markets on the rise, So like, how many stocks you got? Any of these people? If I know you, like you prob probably have enough money for rent and a couple of six packs, And I'm like, yeah, you're not, probably not gonna if you have a four oh one k you got out the way I did, which is not knowing you had a four job and you're like oh okay, thank you, thank
you for this understand. Yeah, anyway, that's the episode. That was a great episode, frustrating all the things that are expected. Glad I stopped myself from going on. Alright, various tired. I'm gonna do a dangerous thing and then I'm gonna have you guys plug your way out. I've got the half smashed Lacroix bottle and I got a machete and I'm gonna try to hit it into the sounding boards as if as if I am batting a tennis ball.
I don't know what kind of ball you bat this way, but that's what I'm gonna do now for this audio only podcast. Yeah, manute a decent distance, didn't hit the sounding boards, got close. It was fun. Yeah, good time. You could do it again if you practice. You guys want to plug your plugables? Yeah, you know. Check us out. We have a podcast called even More News and also a YouTube show called some More News. That's correct. My name is Katie Stole. You can find me on Twitter
at Katie Stole. My name is Kady Johnston. You can find me on Twitter at Dr Mr Cody. My name as Katie Johnston. And Robert Evans and actually you can find me at the internet. Sophie's not here. I am not doing well. You're doing great, You're doing great. Thank you. Don't worry about it. Behind the Bastard's dot Com is our podcast where you can find all the sources for
this episode. You can also find us on public dot com, where you can buy shirts and cups, and that will make someone's stock market price, someone's stock some some stock will go even it's sucking cotton stocks anyway, and then everyoneman will leave Vetter, is I understand the stock market? Um? You can find me on Twitter at I right, okay, you can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and at bastards Pod.
At the fucking episode go home or riot in the streets, one of the two good patroon dot com, Slash said, oh yeah for stock, Oh yeah, for stock. That's kind of stock I can get bought exactly stock m m m