Part Two: The Twilight Zone Movie

help even more kids. So um, if you want to help, you can go to bTB fundraiser for pd X Diaper Bank at go fund me. Just type and go fund me b TB Fundraiser for PDX Diaper Bank. Again, that's go fund Me bTB Fundraiser for PDX Diaper Bank, or find the link in the show notes. Thank you all. Uh We're back, we are. This is Behind the Bastards a podcast posted by you Evans Coma, Robert and our guests Todays Durante Comma Caitlin, it's me. I'm back hot

Dog show. Enough. Um so, how how are we doing? Caitlin? I am doing all right, learning a lot about Max. No not I know it's hard not to write, it's difficult not to He's just in my brain more than John Landis. But learning a lot about John Landis. And uh, also, I uh went to John Landis's IMDb because earlier I was like, I couldn't name a single John Landis movie, has he even made anything? And then turns out so many movies that I have seen. He's an incredibly influential director.

Actually turns out he's done some stuff good for him. Yeah, like Isis You gotta give him credit for a couple of things, for being active in the pursuit of their goals. And also, John Landis famously conquered a sizeable chunk of northern Syria. Don't talk about that as much, Robert task at hand that I'm always working on the task at hand, which in this case is talking about John landis Is

Twilight Zone movies. So the climax of landis Is segment of the Twilight Zone movie was notably the only really big action set piece of the movie. Right, there's not any other like war scenes or really like even all that action e scenes. Right, Like there's some cool ship especially in Joe Dante's bit, but like this is the this is the only thing with like big explosions and shut and stuff. So one Slate article I found alleges that it was quote an excuse for director John Landis

to capture immense explosions on film. Um. There have been allegations that the pyrotechnics that he was ordering people to use were illegally large. Um. I can't speak to that, but I found nothing that makes me doubt the basic analysis, which is that John Landis had not gotten to direct a war movie yet and he kind of used this as an excuse to do a big, gritty war movie. This is a feature film because it's one of four, it's like a thirty minute chunk of the feature film

basically less really, I think probably more like twenty. Um. Yeah, it's weird that he got so obsessed with like making a Vietnam scene that was like brutally accurate in the middle of this Twilight Zone movie. Um, it's kind of a baffling call. Um. So yeah. The dude that he has flying the helicopter in this critical scene is the incredibly named Dorsey Wingo. Uh. And Dorsey is a Vietnam

veteran who had flown choppers in combat. Right so he's you would think, pretty qualified for this very experienced pilot, but he was really new to making movies, and during rehearsals he was deeply rattled by how close the explosions were getting to his aircraft. And again, this is a guy who's been in combat in a helicopter who was

scared by how close the explosions are to his helicopter. Yeah. Yeah, And again, if you are directing a movie with a helicopter getting shot at and your combat veteran pilot is like, hey, this seems dangerous, you might be like, perhaps we're making a mistake. Because this is a movie and not the Vietnam War, things may be going a bit far um. John Landis does not have this moment of realization, absolutely not.

So in normal circumstances, Window probably would have said something about the fact that he was deeply frightened by how the explosions were getting close to his helicopter. But he's really new to movies, right. He had been working with helicopters after Vietnam for years, but he hadn't been in film. This is kind of like his first chance that like becoming a Hollywood stunt pilot. And again, doesn't want to

upset John Landis and get blacklisted. So Wingo, you know, since he can't, he doesn't feel like he can safely go to John Landis. He goes with his concerns to the unit production manager, a guy named Dan Allingham, and he tells Dan that the pyrotechnics are way too close to the aircraft. Allingham agrees, and he says, hey, obviously like safety first, right, Like we'll we'll change things to make it safer. I'll go to John and I'll tell

him we need to make some alterations. So Allingham uh later tells Wingo and the camera operator Roger Smith, who also complained that everything's fine. He spoke to Landis and during the next scene, they're just going to be flying over the water filming thick in the kids, like they're not going to have actors on the ground alongside explosions,

like they'll He's worked it out with Landis. But then later that same day, when John Landis walks past Wingo and another crew member discussing how terrifying, lee hot and close the fireballs had been during the last time they'd filmed the scene, Landis smiled and told them you ain't seen nothing yet. So Landis is well aware of how

dangerous this scene was, but he wants this shot. He has a very specific vision for how the SHOT's going to go, so he has associate producer George Folsey, who's his number two man, basically go to the parents of the children on set and warn them. So you know, they have explosions on this set, And if you have explosions on a film set, you have to have like

a firefighter dude, right who's like your safety guy. And in this case, the guy who's the firefighter dude has also worked in like child protective services adjacent stuff in the past, so Landis knows, oh shit, if this guy finds out that we have a six and a seven year old illegally working at night with explosions, he's going to stop it right like, like as he rightly should.

So he has George Folsy go to the parents of these kids and tell them, quote, if the fireman approach you, please tell them that you are not working for us, Say you are my friend, you are here to help me. Don't tell them anything about the money or the children working. Now, I'm not going to spend a lot of time focusing on things the parents did wrong because spoilers, this ends

in tragedy. But I will say, as a parent, if that conversation has had with you on the set of a film, time to time to get out, time to get time to get rolling right along, that you know it sounds like impending doom is right around the corner. I will say. Only one of the parents has is a fluent English speaker, so the other parent um doesn't

understand what Folsy is saying. So Folsey gets an Asian friend who is on the cast to repeat it to her in Vietnames, But the parent is Chinese, so so Folsi's Vietnamese friend just winds up repeating the message slowly in English. So at least one of the parents probably doesn't fully understand like what Folsy is doing here, right um, and how fucked up things are now, as you might

have begun to expect. By this point, neither Landis or Folsy had done a very good job of letting either set of parents know how dangerous the scene was going to be. Right They were not adequately informed of the risks. I mean, honestly, the pilot was not adequately like finds out how dangerous this is when they're doing the test passes in terms of exploding next to him, right, Um,

I'm gonna quote from the book outrageous Conduct again. In these conversations, Folsey would summarize the final scene, mentioning that there would be explosives, but xsuring the parents that the explosives would be nowhere near the children. Folsey was clearly nervous about the illegal hiring. He had always been an honest, decent person, and he did not feel comfortable breaking the law.

Another secretary in the office, Cynthia and I, remembers Folsey coming out of one meeting with Landis and production manager Dan Allingham. They had been discussing the hiring of the children, and as he left the office, Folsey joked nervously, will probably all be thrown in jail for this. Schuman claims that she asked Folsey at one point what the penalty was for working children without permits. As she recalled the conversation later, Folsy applied to her a slap on the

wrist and a little fine. Unless they find out about the explosives, then they'll throw my butt in jail. So Landis and Folsy and Allingham are all very aware that they are like committing a serious crime here right now on the night of July two. Vic Morrow, who's again playing like the male lead in this right, he's supposed to be rescuing these kids from the this This helicopter, Um and both children, Renee and Micah were placed in position at Indian Dunes Park for like a test run

of the scene. Uh Indian Dunes is where at this point a ton of Vietnam More movies had been filmed. Here's how a Rolling Stone article at the time describe the geography of this area. The park is actually a private property enclosed by steep chaparral covered cliffs. At the base of one of those cliffs, on the south shore of the Santa Clara River, a shallow, slow moving stream that irrigates orange and avocado grows. A few miles to the west, a Vietnamese village had been assembled out of

bamboo poles, palm thatch and cardboard. Right, so that's kind of the scene. They're gonna blow this village up. Right as the kids and in Vic Morrow are like standing in like this this stream with the helicopter strafening them, the whole village is supposed to explode, right so both kids are nervous because explosions are scary too small children

as our helicopters, and to adults, yeah anybody. Vic Morrow, being a nice guy, makes a bunch of funny faces to try and relax them, and he's so successful at this that the kids start laughing hard enough that they can't stop when Landis wants to start filming, so he has to halt the scene and yell at the kids to stop laughing. The shooting goes well this night because again there's not explosions, um and then the parents are given five dollars each and envelopes under the table and

told to bring their kids back the next night. July nineteen two is the night that they are set to film the final scene of Vic Morrow rescuing both kids by carrying them across the river while a US helicopter attacks. He was supposed to say, I'll keep you safe, kids, I swear to God, as the village explodes behind them. As the parents of both children sit watching the final scene unfold, Renee's mother asks is it dangerous and Folsey says no, not dangerous, just a loud noise. At two

twenty am, John Landis calls action. He yells fire, fire, fire, as two machine gunners pump blank rounds into the river. James Camomile, the pyrotechnician, begins setting off a series of explosions. It is immediately obvious that these are even larger and closer to the helicopter than the ones that had previously frightened the pilot. And as the pilot is zooming in over these explosions with the kids underneath them, Landis starts yelling at him, screaming over the mic, lower, get lower.

Mikeah Lee's father, Daniel, who was a Vietnam War veteran, says that the blasts reminded him of real rocket detonations. Quote. I was so horrified. I was screaming the second blast, I fell down on the ground. I cried God. I was so fearful, and I knew danger. It was not something made up, but real danger. So Landis just keeps

telling the helicopter to get closer. Two of the explosions detonate very like basically right on the chopper, close enough that they have an effect, not unlike anti aircraft fire.

The National Transportation Safety Board, in their analysis, would later conclude quote the probable cause of The accident was the detonation of debris laden high temperature special effects explosions too near a low flying helicopter, leading to foreign object damn to one rotor blade and de lamination due to heat to the other rotor blade, the separation of the helicopter's tail rotor assembly, and the uncontrolled descent of the helicopter.

The proximity of the helicopter to the special effects explosions was due to the failure to establish direct communications and coordination between the pilot who was in command of the helicopter operation, and the film director who was in charge of the filming operation. So the helicopter goes down right, the explosions damage it, and it crashes. Now, Landis had wanted the explosions to be close to the helicopter, and he had wanted that helicopter hovering right over the heads

of Vic and the children for the same reason. He wanted the scene to look intense and frightening. His vision for the movie now led to a calamity. While roughly a hundred people watched, the helicopter plunged into the river, The right skid crushed six year old Renee, killing her instantly. The craft then toppled over on its side, cutting Vic Morrow and the seven year old Mica in half. There's footage on this, you can find it on YouTube. It's not gory, but you see the chopper because the water

kind of covers it. You see the chopper hit them. It's pretty fucking terrifying. Like je, if you want to have knowledge of what that looks like, you can see it. I don't. Yeah, Um, but I mean okay, So when I said horses maybe died or maybe people, it was it was the people and it was um, two of which were young young children. Yeah, two of which together did not add up to fourteen years of age. Oh horrible. Yeah,

this is it's pretty bad, horrible yeah. Um. And also all there's six people in the helicopter, right, because there's folks filming too. They're all hurt, right, none of them die, thankfully, but they're all injured. Um, because helicopter crashes aren't great for your health. So this is about the worst thing you could watch happen as a parent. Yeah, It's not not a lot that I could imagine being higher on

that list. Um. So there's obviously in the immediate aftermath of the crash, their silence, right as everyone kind of like grapples with what has happened, and then Renee's mother begins to scream. John Landis, who, being the guy that John Landis is, still feels a need to act as if he's in control of the situation, says, that's a rap. Are you kidding me? It's it's now. It's one of those things. He goes on to say, like, leave your equipment where it is. Everyone go home, please, everyone go home?

Like right, obviously someone needs to announce that, like filming is over. I guess I don't know, someone needs doing out something for what. I don't think the right thing to say is that's a rap. I just don't. I really don't think that's the right thing to say after you have gotten two children and a stunt man killed killed. Not the right thing to say at all. Oh my god, John Landis m M. But on the other hand, we got animal House out of his career, so who can

say it was worth it? And then okay, so then I he goes on to direct, um, what did is sorry, I have a bunch of a bunch of will talk about some of the ship. He goes on to direct just a little bit. But you know what we're going to talk about right now, Caitlin, Is is it products and services? Yeah? And the products and services in this podcast, Caitlin, not once have they been involved in a fatal helicopter accident.

I'm so glad. That's that's the absolute guarantee we make, um, unless corporation winds up, uh ever, supporting us, in which case they've been responsible for a lot of deadly helicopter accidents. Um. But that's the problem will cross when we finally get that big sponsorship. But I've always thought we're more of a podcast, right Sophie. I find you to be so annoying. Well, you know what else is annoying? Not having the great taste? M m? Are you really doing an adverb? That's good

right now? Like they don't haven't done anything bad, because that's why I said the great taste of unlike the terrible helicopter crashy taste of products. So they're Sophie Robert stilling for an ad break. It sure is. We're back, Caitlin. How are we doing? I'm doing good? Um? Okay, So after this he directs the Thriller music video. She sure does direct the thriller music video. Um, what are the things I'm familiar with? Three Amigos he directs, which is

a movie. Another unpopular opinion that I have is that that movie sucks. I hate hate. There's like twenty good minutes in that whole movie, and there's a lot of ship in between. Do not like it? Um Coming to America? UM, trade right before or at least it's released before Twilight Zone movie one of the fucking um. One of the write ups about this disaster, I found, like, really ships

on Coming to America? I think just because it's like the first big hit Land has had after the accident, which, like I don't get like, I think it's my recollection was Coming to America is perfectly fine movie? One of the better Eddie Murphy movies. UM. I tend to agree. Yeah, except for Shrek and of course three, and of course Shrek and of course Shrek four. Yeah. How many Shreks did we wind up getting? There are four and a fifth?

One is I think past development. I think it's soon. Well, this this is the best chance we've had in years of getting another Austin Powers movie. Wait, Shrek five, hang on, this is we just have to pause because this is important. Shrek five. Uh oh. According to fandom, Shruck five might be released on September two. Uh it sounds like really good information that is definitely probably correct. Anyway, we can

move away from Shrek. I guess I mean no, um this the I actually plan to just talk about the Shrek movie, which has a pretty titanic body count. Um, although that's primarily because in order to get some of the shots they needed, they had to back a brutal civil war in Ecuador. But you know the Shrek franchise, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the only way you could get that realistically rendered

of a donkey. Um. So you know, John Landis gets two children and Vick Morrow horribly killed, um, really terrible debts um. And you know this is gonna cause problems, right. Um. Hollywood is pretty good at at smoothing some things under the under the table, right, but this is this is a problem, right, This is a big story. Yeah, children cut in half by helicopters are gonna There's gonna be some legal stuff that's gonna come out. Yeah a little bit. So the wheels of justice, or what passes for the

wheels of justice start to churn up after this. The first court cases that kind of get resolved at least our lawsuits from the families of the children who get killed. The Chin family file on August three, and name both John Landis and Steven Spielberg. Cause again, Steve Spielberg is producing this alongside John Landis, right, he is, he is involved in this whole thing. We will talk some more about the degree to which maybe he's culpable here, because

it's very murky. Right, he immediately leaves the country. Um, we'll talk about that more in a second. Um as does um. Oh god, what's her name? That Kathleen lady who wound up running Marvel what sort? I don't know. Let's sack. Let's sack. I don't care about that. Behind the scenes people in movies. Kathleen Kennedy who was also produce she also fucking books it, right, Like, both Spielberg and Kathleen Kennedy are like, because you know, we should probably not be around for this. I don't want to

get involved in. Um. So Yeah. The first court cases that follow this our lawsuits from the families of the Slane children. The Chin family files on August three, and they name yeah, Lands and Spielberg, as well as uh Folsy and Wingo. Um Folsey is the assist a producer and Windows the pilot in their request for damages. Michael Lees family file suit a year later. These all do

get settled out of court. Um. Now, one for an example of kind of the crapulence of big studios, when Warner Brothers is named in the Chin lawsuit, because right there they have some culpability to their law firm argues that the studio not be liable because quote, the risk, if any risk there was, was knowingly assumed by the decedent Renee shiny Chin, who was again six choking me right now? Yeah, first off, the risk if any there was. You can't have if any there wasn't there when three

people have been cut to pieces by helicopter rotors. Okay, Like you can't say was there really a risk there was a risk that everything about that sentence is wrong. Yeah, it's unbelievably like it's a strong case that entertainment lawyers should be boiled. Um. Yeah. So these civil lawsuits are all eventually settled. We don't really know like what kind of money the families get. I hope it's a lot.

Like you know, but we don't really know. But of course that doesn't end kind of the legal stuff around this, because three human beings have died gruesome deaths. Two of them are children who have been hired illegally, So the state of California needs to determine if there was any criminal liability for the accident. District Attorney John Van de Camp assigned prosecutor Gary Kesselman to the case, and an l A p D. Sheriff's detective assisted the investigation. Found

the things that I have noted already. Um, they find like Folsey saying, oh, I'll go to jail for this. They find that, you know, the children have been illegally hired, that this has been hidden from the fire safety officer. So they they're like, well, there's enough here to convene a grand jerry for fucking share um, which you know, one of the rare times I'll be like, yeah, that l A. Sheriff's deputy was more or less right. Um.

So they convene a grand jury. Um. And when you convene a grand jury, that means that there's enough evidence that there's something wrong that you're gonna bring the people involved in front of a jury. And have them be questioned, right, and then the jury is going to decide we indict, which means like do we actually charge people with a crime? Right? Um? So they Folsy winds up in front of the grand jury. Um who he says that in front of the grand jury.

Folsey says, in retrospect, it would have been better to shoot the helicopter and the actors at separate times, which, no, ship, I'm glad you can see that, buddy. Yes, in retrospect, it would have been better to not do the thing

that got three people killed. There was adequate technology at the time that yeah, you can like superimposed two there was together if you could, I mean, if you could have explained the concept of a helicopter in there was adequate technology for them to have said, no, this sounds like a bad idea. Yeah, oh no, wonder everything is

c g I these days. As much as I love a practical effect, if it puts anyone in danger, you could have had a practical effect and like puppets like there's what that Pieters have done scenes like this that did not endanger human life, right, at least not children, right, Like that one of the things that happening here is that like, no one's getting charged or even like attempted to be charged with um with um vic Morrow's death because as questionable as some of the decisions made, he

was an adult who chose to be in a really a situation he knew was dangerous. You know, UM's still wild. I mean, they're still fucked up. But like these are children, they cannot and honestly their parents can't consent to put them in that danger. You're not allowed to do that their children, and they're not given any of the information. And children are famously uh, not very good at advocating

for themselves nor fully understanding. I mean, so much of our society exists to stop people from doing things like this to children. Um. This is why you can't put them in coal mines anymore. So, UM, I'm gonna quote for more on how this grand jury goes from Crime Library quote. John Landis testified and blamed underlings for the tragedy. He said that he had assumed Stewart and Wingo had

worked out the coordination of their jobs. He did not make certain of it because I assumed if these men are experts licensed by the government to do their jobs, they've done their jobs. Kesselman pressed on as to why he did not make sure they talked, because when you get into a taxi, Landis replied, you assumed the driver is not going to drive you off a bridge. It's just assumptions. The guy is a licensed taxi driver. These

are experts. Later, the prosecutor began the final authority in terms of camera, actor positions, helicopter or whatever on that set is not mine. Land Is broken because if I asked an actor, I said, would you please take your hand and stick it at this garbage disposal? The actor is going to say, of course not. So he's accepting absolutely no accountability. No, no. The director should be the ultimate authority on set, but also should have no responsibility

when things go wrong. Right, Oh my gosh. He as you've said, was like, no, these these explosions need to be closer. You ain't seen nothing yet, like he was constantly despite many people protesting and saying this is not safe, this is dangerous, this is going to lead to bad things. He was like, but my vision realism. I must make a perfectly accurate Vietnam War scene in this Twilight film movie movie about a time traveling racist, embarrassing what a loser.

He sucks for sure. Um, he's he's definitely a thing so bad, you know what. Poopy, That's what I'll say, Caitlin to quote me, loftus p poo poo wow wow powerful powerful to the award winning Jamie loftus p p poopoo. Who I am feuding with just the hypocrisy of yeah, being like, uh no one questioned me. The choice I'm making is the best. I have ultimate power and control here, and then when something goes wrong, well I did, I don't know. I assumed it was. They didn't say anything.

If it was, it was the helicopter operator. Such a fucking fucking putting explosions and there's next to him. Definitely a case we made that the helicopter operator and the pyrotechnician have some degree of culpability here. Right, I'm not saying they don't because they are professionals, and the fact that they could have suffered career consequences from complaining doesn't mean they shouldn't have said something. Right. Um, But again, the director is the dictat e of the film set.

He has absolute power. That is less the case now because of this accident. We'll talk about that in a little bit, but at this time he has absolute power. The buck stopped with John Landis, or at least it should have, right. Um. He was the motherfucker who was making the calls here. Um. And it's kind of like he keeps he compares it to a taxi driver and like, well, look, it's not my fault if I hire a cab driver

any crashes. Like well, okay, but if you hire a cab driver and then you force him at gunpoint to do body shots while driving the cab and then he crashes, you you are responsible for that car crash. Actually, um, because he wouldn't have been drinking if you had not been forcing him to do it. Um. Which is not to say that it's wrong to force your cab driver at gunpoint to drink. That's a that's a fun time. Like I'm not party. It is a cool party time

and cab drivers love being forced to do shots. That's the motto of this show. It is not threaten a cab driver anyway. Um. It could be Sophie, allegedly, it could be so Obviously A grand jury indicts the ship out of John Landis Um, along with Folsey and Allingham. They are charged with manslaughter in the deaths of Renee and Mica. Again, they're not being charged for Vic Morrow's death.

The charges are based on the fact that the deaths had occurred during the commission of an inherently dangerous, unlawful act, and that unlawful act was the illegal hiring of children. Right, So the fact that they're getting charged with manslaughter, that manslaughter charge relies entirely on the fact that those children

were legally being employed. Right, Does that make sense? That's why Morow that no one's getting charged for Morrow's It makes sense because I understand what you're saying, But it also doesn't make sense because it should just be illegal to Yes, I'm not trying to everything that happened on this set. You know, the law is the law. It has nothing to do with mora. I'm trying to explain, like, this is legally what's going on. Right. Um So, again, the crime is not just that they got people killed.

It's that those people, the people they got killed, could not legally have been on that set when they got killed. That's what makes it not just an accident, but out it adds like the criminal responsibility. Um So, Kesselman decides not to try and get an indictment against these guys for the illegal hiring of the children itself or having them work past curfew. Um. These would have been slam dunk convictions. Obviously they were blatantly guilty. Um. But both

would have had like ten day maximum jail sentences. Um, because they're more like yeah, because it should like illegally having kids work at night and stuff isn't like a serious crime on its own. Um, it's not like, yeah, it's not like hard time or whatever. And Kesselman, I'm not gonna like make a stance on whether he made

the right call or not. The reason he doesn't go for these slam dunk convictions alongside manslaughter is he's worried that if the grand jury has the chance to like indict these guys on something easy that's lighter than manslaughter, that they'll go with the easy charges and they won't go for manslaughter. Again, it's like the prosecutor in this he's he's you're always playing kind of a game with the jury here. I'm not a law expert. I'm not going to give an opinion on whether or not this

is a good call. But this is the call that he makes right. Um. So the case churns, churns forward. And while this is happening, obviously the dead people are having their funerals because that's what you do when people get killed. Um. In one of the most unfucking hinged moments in Hollywood history, John Landis decides to attend all three ceremonies, all three funerals. Yep. Is he super apologetic? Now there was some speculation but that he was advised

too much. Did he go in he was super apologetic? No, no, Sophie, that's a fun question. Absolutely not. But he does do the opposite of that. Um. There is speculation that his lawyers advise him to not just show up, but to speak at the funerals in order to seem deeply hurt by what has happened. Um. Now, in all cases, the families beg him not to come. Right, like nobody wants, John land has at these fucking funerals. You know, not only does he come, but he makes a speech at

least at Vic Morrow's funeral. And I'm gonna quote now from a write up by Dick Peabuddy, who's one of Morrow's friends. They'd work together in a bunch of stuff before um, and he's a close enough friend that Peabuddy winds up as a pallbearer at more Morrow's funerals. So this is this is Dick Peabuddy's recollection of the funeral. I rode with them, them being Morrow's family, to the funeral, and sat with them in the section of the chapel

reserved for family. Moments after we arrived, an audible shock wave of reaction from Vick's friends and co workers who come to pay their respects, grabbed my attention. A thin, bearded man was coming down the aisle, seemingly unable to walk without assistance. He was supported by a woman and another man, Miss John Landis and George Folsey Jr. The production manager of the Twilight Zone movie. The bearded staggerer

was Twilight Zone director John Landis. His stooges helped him to the lectern, and he began a rambling eulogy, unplanned, unrequested, unwanted, and shocking to Vick's family and friends. His mere presence at the funeral was offensive to them. He did this, presumably on the advice of his attorney. The most obnoxious remark he made, among many, was that he was proud to have directed Vic and what Vic himself considered the

best performance of his career. Vic's girlfriend and his ex wife, Barbara, both said that Vic thought the movie was a piece of ship and he was ashamed to be connected to it. So I cannot confirm whether or not John Landis was telling the truth or or Dick pebody was telling the truth about how Vic felt about this movie. It is worth noting that multiple other accounts back up Dick's retelling of events. In fact, some of them sound worse. According to several accounts, Here was the full text of what

land has said. Tragedy can strike in an instant, but film is immortal. Vic libs forever. Just before the last take, Vic took me aside to thank me for the opportunity to play this role. Now, Caitlin, if you had to calculate in a lab the worst eulogy to give after getting three people killed in a helicopter accident, could you

do better than this? I think he absolutely nailed giving the worst eulogy imaginable, like the balls number one to get up and speak and say anything, but I'm sorry and my life means nothing now, um Like he's one thing to get up and say, at least he was the best thing he ever did. My movie was his best moment. Unbelievable. The I I cannot even begin to comprehend the size of the ego. You have to have

to do something like that. We need to have a law wherein if like a certain number of people vote that a situation is deserving of a motherfucker getting hit in the face with a brick, then it's legal to hit them in the face with a brick. And I think this would be my yardstick, right like if I'm arguing the Supreme Court, like what is the bricking, Like, what is like the threshold for a bricking? Like right here, somebody should have hit John Landis in the face with

a brick. That would have been fine. Yeah, I mean it was according to it seems fine that he was. He had the most dangerous film set. Unbelievable. Like so, I think it's also worth noting at this point, as we have a couple of times, sometimes accidentally, which is usually how people refer to this dude, that John Landis has a on Max Landis, who we will discuss briefly at the end. Now, Max directed the film Chronicle and

most infamously the Will Smith flop Bright. Since he was pretty active online at one point big Reddit guy Max Landis, people on Reddit would often like troll him by bringing up the fact that his dad got three people killed, and Max blew up at them at one point. In a fairly famous post among Max Landis Nowher's and one of the things he stated was that it's really fucked up for people to accuse his dad of having killed

one of his best friends. Now that's bullshit. I have come across no evidence anywhere that Vic Morrow and John Landis were close. Most accounts seemed to show that Mora was somewhat scared by the director and certainly worried about what upsetting him might do for his career. A friend I think would be comfortable telling a friend, Hey, I am worried about the explosions that you were putting next to me. Right um now, I don't. I actually don't think I'm not one to go to bad for Max Landis.

I don't think Max Landis is lying here. I think this is what John Landis had to tell his son in order to like try and preserve like some sort of I don't know what tone to use here, but like my guess is that is the lie that John Landis told Max Righte that like again I were great friends, and like he understood the risks and you know, it was just a tragic whatever. That's my guess here. So for the other funerals and for what happened at them, I'm going to turn again to that right up by

Crime Library quote. At Renee chins funeral, a gray faced John Landis, being held up by his wife and friend showed up to pay his respects. The child's relatives fixed cold, accusing stairs at the director, except for Renee's mother, who was sobbing. Landis also went to Micha Lee's funeral, the boys choir to which Mica had belonged, saying his favorite him, Jesus loves all the children of the world. There is no question that the accident traumatized the director for several

weeks after it, he was heavily medicated. At one point he called a confidante and wondered if he would ever be able to ask anyone to take even the simplest direction. So I will admit, first off, when I wrote this, I I missed understood that as John Landis asking them to sing that him. I think they're saying that that was Mike's favorite him, So I will delete my objection there um. But like it's this, he's clearly doing a bit right. Every funeral he has the same people carry

him in. He's acting right like he is. He's putting on a show for the court primarily and for his own future career to like seem less like a monster here. But it's the same show every time, like being carried in because you can can't and among other things, it's

just basic ethics, right, really minimal human decency. If you are going to a funeral and it is someone you knew that died, but not like someone super close in relation to you, you do not act more distraught than that person's parents or children or loved ones, right, Because

it's about them, right, It's not about you. If it's just like someone you knew, where it's like your friend's mom or something, you don't go there and like collapse because it's about them, and that's putting more ship on them, right, Like that's kind of fucked up to do, you know, don't act more devastated, You don't, certainly, as the director of a film that these kids you've known for two days.

Are and you don't act more distraught than their fucking parents, you know, And you don't draw attention to yourself by giving like you don't do you don't. First of all, you don't go, John, don't. You shouldn't. Obviously you shouldn't go. You shouldn't go to these these fears if you do feel some need because you actually are, are written with

legitimate guilt, which he clearly is not. Um, you slink in, you stand in the back, You don't draw any attention to yourself, and then you bail apiece out even that's questionable, but like, absolutely don't do this. Absolutely don't do any of the things that he did. What a performative piece of shit. Now, the good news, Caitlin, and I know you're concerned about this, is that killing three people and being actively involved in a manslaughter trial does not hurt

his career, does not hurt his career. Um, while the case unfolds, which takes like three years, he directs four films and takes on a number again, as we've talked about Hi, he directs the thriller video like Yeah, doesn't get a lot more high profile than that. Probably still like the biggest music video ever made in terms of it's like cultural impact. He also directs the Eddie Murphy hit Coming to America, which is somewhat less influential. Now there's a fun story with Eddie Murphy and and John

Landis that we're going to tell him a bit. But first, you know what won't show up to the funerals of its victims and make it about them, these products and our Services Corporation sher won't. We has labor activists executed in Latin America. They don't show up at those funerals. Do They bomb them? Sometimes allegedly allegedly, but they don't show up. Here's ads We're back. Uh. So Eddie Murphy and John Landis were friends at one point, right, Uh,

they've been in some stuff together. Um, you know, uh and and and they're good enough friends that in the wake of this tragedy, Um, Eddie goes to Paramount because he you know, Coming to America is like a script that comes to him first. Right, I'm not going to get into the weeds of like how it gets made, but right, he's he's wanting to make this movie, and he makes Paramount hire John Landis and give him a million dollars and final editing rights on the film, um,

which is more than they want to spend. And he does it because Landis is his friend and Eddie Murphy wants to give his friend to win. Now, I'm not saying Eddie's not a questionable dude, because this is a questionable moral decision, but it's being a good friend. You can't deny that, you know, um, which is not being a good person. But it's at least Eddie. Eddie is a guy who will go to bat for his friends.

This does show that. Um. So what's funny about this is that Eddie Murphy really does John Landis a solid and then John Landis treats him like utter ship the entire time they're making this movie. Is just a nightmarish douche bag to this guy who is like saving his career. It's a really weird call. Eddie Murphy talks about this in a Playboy interview, and I'm gonna read an exerpt from that now and again for an idea of the

tone of this. This is a Playboy interview, so Murphy is gonna be saying some questionable things later on after he got the job he brought along an attitude. He came in with this, I'm a direc actors ship. I was thinking, wait a second, I fucking hired you, and now you're running around going you have to remember I'm the boss, I'm the director. One of his favorite things was to tell me when I worked with Michael Jackson, everyone was afraid of Michael, but I'm the only one

who would tell Michael fuck you. And I'm not afraid to tell you fuck you. And sure enough he was always telling me fuck you, Eddie. Everyone at Paramount is afraid of you. So that's weird. And also again, like you really want to be the dictator of the movie when nobody's gotten killed. Um, but suddenly it's a it's a team project when three people die. Huh, that's fun.

Um yeah. Um. So I'm not gonna get two into the weeds on this interview, but it has some incredible lines from Eddie Murphy that really adds some context to the filming of a classic comedy quote. What first put a bad taste in my mouth about him was when after he hired co stars Shari Headley and all these other people, I said, I wanted to take everybody to dinner. I didn't know anybody, but Landis grabbed Headley and said, you stay away from Eddie. Don't go hear him, because

he's gonna fuck you and ruin my movie. He just wants your pussy. I'm thinking, wait, oh no, this has nothing to do with being a fucking director. He's a control freak. Just assuming that I was trying to get the pussy is one thing. Even and even if I was trying to get the pussy, for him to try to stop me getting it because he was directing the movie, He's got a lot of nerve. Plus, it wasn't even

about pussy. So again, Murphy right, like, you know, it wasn't even a plus, it wasn't even about I do kind of suspect Eddie Murphy planned on hitting on her, but it's still not. It's still fucked up for John Landis to just say that, like, yeah, he seems what a power hungry Yeah, fucking he's a ship. Now this all culminates like the only like eventually Eddie just like threatens to beat the ship out of him and things

calmed down. But they have not talked since. Like Eddie Murphy has hated John Us ever, since um, and we'll talk about him at the drop of a hat. Anyway, Um, back to the trial. So, being a giant piece of ship, Landis and his lawyers opted for a strategy in which the above the line people blamed everything on the below the line people. Now in Hollywood pire lance, above the

line workers are actors, producers, directors. That there's the big names, right, the actual technical people, the crew folks, pilots, stuntman, pyrotechnicians, all that stuff there below the line. So Landis, because again a bunch of above and below the line people have gotten charged here with manslaughter, Landis wants to blame the folks responsible for pyrotechnics and the pilot um for everything that's happened. That's his plan to throw his people

under the fucking bus. Also, no wonder there's like a director get like becomes one of these just like power hungry maniacs, because just just like language like that, Like if you come to a set and you see that there's a hierarchy like that and then you realize you're at the you're at the top of it. I mean, I guess, I mean it just speaks to how shitty a person is. Inherently if they just are in that situation,

they're like, oh, I'm above all these people. Look at all these below people there are below me, and look at how below they are, and I can exploit them and manipulate them, and also the whole system because like a lot of these lower people who get charged don't work again, or at least not for years. Right, And this doesn't have that problem because you can write below the line. People have a stink to them because three people died. Um. But Landis makes money, so there's no

real consequences for him career wise. I hate it. So for an example of how utterly crapulent these defense tactics were, I'm gonna quote again from Crime Library Ry quote Braun. His defense attorney, called Landis an artist and praised his Twilight Zone segment as a cinematographic statement against racism and bigotry. He also gave a strangely cynical reason for the casting of the children. Children are classically used in films other

than his principles. He opined in order to evoke emotion in an audience, because adults generally don't like one another, but everyone likes children. Kesselman called Shayan Hui Chen to the stand. Renee's mother spoke through an interpreter. She cried as she talked about watching her daughter die. So this is like a nasty, nasty case. Um. The jury eventually finds Landis and his fellow defendants not guilty of manslaughter.

A lot of it is like the same kind of ship you hear in like the O. J. Simpson trial, Like they're picking apart. Like someone will say, well, I heard them say we're going to get arrested for doing this, and then someone say, like, well, who said it? When did you hear it? Like as possible they like, it's it's all about like creating whatever doubt you can. There's a lot of theories as to why the jury acquits them. People will argue it's because Landis was famous or whatever.

Um uh, I don't know. Um, it's worth noting like a master manipulator. So yeah, and he's got a lot of money to put in, and so does the studio. The studio puts a lot of money into his defense. The Monday after he's acquitted, UM, John Landis appears on Good Morning America to celebrate. He invites all twelve members of the jury to attend to the premiere of Coming to America, which they do so fun fact about Coming to America if you like that film, that is wild.

Now there are some like minor fines and some censure from like industry organizations and ship after the trial, but

John's career again just plows forward. Um. The main personal consequence he faced, aside from his son getting dragged on Reddit, was the end of his friendship with Steven Spielberg, who again bounces for a while to be and they they based at the studio because like, there's initially an attempt to get him to like testify because he was the producer on this movie too, and the studio is basically like he's too important to testify, and the court's like okay, wow, okay.

I think the same thing basically happens with Kathleen as well. So before you think too positively of Stephen, it is worth noting again he is the producer of this movie as well. He is also responsible for the safety of the actors in this film UM, and for insuring things like the illegal hiring of child actors for an explosive helicopter scene do not occur. There are allegations that Spielberg

was on set that night. UM. I have not found any substantiation of them, and those allegations are printed by people who were who talked to folks who were on set. I haven't heard them directly from people who were on set. Um. Spielberg has claimed that the interviews in interviews that the tragedy made me grow a little, which is a weird thing to say. Uh. In the wake of the disaster, he issued a statement, I was never at the Indian Dunes location of Twilight Zone on the night of the accident,

or at any other time. Now. To follow up to that, I'm gonna quote again from the book Outrageous Conduct. That too sentence letter marked the complete extent of spielberg sworn statements on the Twilight Zone case. Joe Dante, who directed a segment that had nothing to do with the Landis episode, had to give a deposition in one of the civil cases. Spielberg, who was the producer of the entire movie, did not do even that much. Nevertheless, Tom Bud's argues that there

was no compelling reason to interrogate Spielberg. There is no indication that Spielberg even knew anything about the hiring of the children. So I don't know. You can feel however you want about Spielberg in this he never talks to Landis again, like they're they're they're not buds anymore. I don't know how much like blame to throw his way. A number of other directors do come out and like

basically say, fucking John Landis is a murderer. After this, like there are some directors who like really go to the mat to condemn him. In fact, I actually pull a couple of those up. Um Brian de Palma um is one. He's a guy who directed Carry Right and the Untouchables said quote, I don't think Landis was railroaded. It's difficult to imagine putting all those elements in one place. Helicopters, explosions, children, night shooting, and not treading a very thin line. That's

a combination you would try to steer clear of. Helicopters by themselves are very dangerous, even with very experienced stunt people, and as soon as you have inexperienced people in a set, you are adding to the danger. Landis's actions were definitely excessive. When asked why so many directors had rallied behind Landis to Palma answered, I have no idea. Maybe they're afraid

of being sued. Um, So that's Brian cool. James L. Brooks, who directed Terms of Endearments, also uh issued a statement if you hire children illegally, pay them under the table and then they get killed, that sounds like criminal negligence to me. So there are some people in Hollywood were like, they fucking murdered those kids for them. Um. But stating notably, although he doesn't talk to Landis, Spielberg doesn't say shit, Um okay, Steve, Yeah, that could have done a little

better there, Stevie. Um, I don't. It seems unlikely he was on set. I don't think he directly had anything to do with this, although you could argue that, like you should have been aware of what was happening on this set that you were helping to produce, you know. In theory, yeah, yeah, I mean it depends on the kind of type of producer and stuff, like some some of them don't step foot on set. Ever, this is not that case, right because they are also directing segments

of this. But yeah. In the years since the tragedy, John Landez has again had a great career. He's also signed onto a petition in favor of child molesting director Roman Polanski. Um. Okay, not surprised about that. Yeah, big Roman Polanski fan John landis um and of course his greatest crime after the murders was raising Max landis. Um. Say yeah, so he uses his clout to get his son screenwriting and eventually directing jobs, and Max puts out a mix of Some people will say that um, um

chronicle was pretty good. I haven't seen it. I watched American Ultra, which was very mediocre. In December of two thousand and seventeen, he is accused of sexual assault by former co worker uh, and then a couple of years later by seven other women who eventually accused him of rape, assault, and psychological abuse that borders He's got kind of a cult. It's like this weird group of friends that like he's always cycling people through and exiling people like all this

kind of like he's he's fucked up, dude. Max land is a bunch of fucked up ship. He is now running coaching a seminars coaching screenwriters. His career seems to have pretty much created um. So that's good. We'll see if he tries to come back at some point, very Max. Another Max lands story is the devastating Daily Beast article about the years and years of psychological abuse that he did to a number of women and how fucked up

and insidious it was. UM. As a note, if you just find google Daily Beast Max Landis, you'll get the U r L for that. It's on the paywall, but if you type it, if you go to archive dot I S and you plug that Lincoln, it'll pop up an archived version that you can read outside of the paywall. If you want to know the kind of fucked up ship that Max Landis was doing. That's beyond the story today because we're talking about John Landis, who has fucked up as Max Landis Is. His dad is worse because

Stead murdered three people. Um, it's just a whole family, whole bloodline of great m hmm. And that's the story of John Landis, a guy who sucks. What a bastard. So I don't know, show up to his funeral when he dies and make it about you. I will, I really will do that. Do you have any plausibles for us? Perhaps? Oh gosh, sure, I sure do. UM. You can follow

me on Twitter and Instagram. I've been doing this new thing on my Instagram stories where I recap a movie with as much detail as I can, um speaking as quickly as I can and doing the whole thing entirely from memory in fifteen seconds or less. It's a bit that we all love and is super cool and fun and good. So do do the movie Pie? The movie pop? Are you? First of all, I barely remember. I couldn't even I've never watched it while not tripping, and I've

watched it like seven times. I've definitely seen it, but it was like in college because I was like, I'm a film student and I need to launch Looking Deer near Nashky. It's a great movie to trip while watching. Although if you really want to funk your head up, watch Tetsuo the Iron Man because that'll, oh yeah, there's a drill fucking scene in that one. But anyway, so those so that, so I'm afraid I will not be

doing a good job recapping the movie Pie. Also, as soon as you said that, I my brain immediately went to Life of Pie and I was like, yeah, it's about a boy and the tiger in the boat. Did it yep? I guess my Pie summary would be math and judaism. M M yeah, uh yeah, that that could be again, don't remember single detail about there's a lot of both in that movie. Um so yeah. Check out

those those Instagram stories. Follow me on those social media platforms if you must um a slash, please do because the more followers I have, the more validated I feel as a human person. And then you can check out the Bechtel Cast, which I co host with Jamie Loftus and we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens. Well, follow Caitlin and find us both on Twitter. Once you've listened to this and tell us you are Max land

Is Stories. I'll bet there's a number. I'll bet like a not insignificant number of the people listening to the show we're like, oh, I had to run in with that motherfucker. There's a lot of them out there, mostly just in ain stupid ship, but also some horrifying stuff. So anyway, that's the episode. Thanks for having me, Thanks for being on the show. Behind the Bastards is a

production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.