Part Two: The First American Yoga Cult Leader - podcast episode cover

Part Two: The First American Yoga Cult Leader

Apr 27, 20231 hr 13 min
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Episode description

Robert is joined again by Katy Stoll to continue to discuss the founder of Bikram Yoga. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Wow.

Speaker 2

Wow, Wow, that's what we're starting with. Katie Stole admitting to committing a crime. Sophie, can you get the DEA on the horn real quick? Just just call them up. We gotta we gotta report this now.

Speaker 3

It's legal behavior on your speed dial, not on mine.

Speaker 4

I love Robert reporting me the DEA.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I'll show him your book on my bookshelf about drugs.

Speaker 2

Hey, hey, hey, hey, whoa. You can't. You can't prove ship just because it has my name in it. You know that doesn't mean anything. Books are lies all the time.

Speaker 4

Love Robert front page.

Speaker 2

That doesn't prove ship, Katie. What have you heard about Chowtury?

Speaker 5

Uh?

Speaker 1

Not that much, Robert? Just really okay, okay, I actually haven't.

Speaker 6

So they did commented from So there was a billboard in Los Angeles on Olympic and like Barrington for Bickram yoga my entire life.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, I feel like more it's it's a I definitely have seen Bickram. I do have some sort of vague association with negative association with the person. I don't think it's because I'm here on behind the bastards and I understand the uh what happens here.

Speaker 4

On this show. But yeah, I don't got I haven't got any information on him.

Speaker 2

Yeah, uh okay, well that's this is great. That this is great. You're coming in cold. He used to be, as Sophie mentioned, like there were billboards for this guy, like an entire style, like probably one of the most like like famous and prominent types of yoga literally bear like in you know, the American conception of yoga literally bore his name for decades. And he is a fucking monster, very bad dude. And uh, I mean obviously I started this.

I initially been planning to kind of do a two parter on Bickram, honestly, like I felt like in order to do that, we would have just been repeating very similar stories about abuse in a way that was not productive. And then I found out about you know, Pierre Bernard and was like, oh, I think this is actually a really useful way to lead into the story of Bickram, because there's a lot of continuity between the two guys, and obviously they are not the only kind of yoga

cult leader abusive types. In fact, there was a one of Bickram's students is currently like his yoga you know cult that he created in New York City is like falling apart under allegations of like horrible abuse. So like this is there we are. That's part of why I wanted to do it this way. It is like there's a chain of these kind of guys taking advantage of the sort of trappings of yoga and you know, Hindu and Buddhist mysticism in order to abuse people. And that's

that's bad. You know. We talk about we talk about people doing that with Christianity all the time. It's worth talking about that when people do it using other you know things. So from the very beginning of the physical asana component of Hatha yoga, there was an element of exhibitionism to it, right. We talked about this a little bit in the last episode. This is like the yogi's laying on beds of nails. That's a prominent example of this.

As yoga in India became more centered around physical movements and the early prescriptions against halfa faded, exhibitionist elements of it became more common. A good example of this would be Rebo Rakshet, an Indian bodybuilder and yoga advocate who studied under a teacher named Bishnu Ghosh, who we will talk about more in a little bit. Riba immigrated to Kolkata after the partition of India and with the withdrawal of the English menace, and by the early nineteen fifties

she was winning titles and bodybuilding. She also started to perform for circuses, where she would lift the legs of elephants onto her chest and let them stand on her without crushing her. She also like, let fully loaded. I'm sure there's like some probably it's a lot that like elephants are smart and don't want to crush people. I don't know. I'm not an expert on like how this works. She would also let fully loaded cars drive over her body.

And I bring this up because number one, it's pretty cool. I think this stuff is neat. I'm a big fan of like circusy shit, and it's also interesting to I also bring it up because like to make the point that, like you might say, the kind of circusy vibe of public yoga has a pretty proud tradition back in India. Right. Bikram Chowdery was born in Calcutta in British India in nineteen forty four. I haven't ever seen a credible exact date for this guy's birthday. That's not really uncommon given

the time record keeping wasn't perfect. It's also the case that Bickram is an inveterate liar, so I'm not sure I would even trust a birth date if he gave it. But nineteen forty four is pretty seems like a pretty good ballpark estimate for like when this guy was born. We know very little about his early life life, save that he claims he grew up quite poor. This is certainly possible, even likely. In the version of his life that he spun for interviewers, Bikram Chowdery describes the foundational

moments of his existence this way. I remember all the Bengali kids used to play a little ball, and somehow I crossed the alley and I saw Gosh's College of Physical Education. About fifteen or twenty kids there are doing the postures. So I said, wait a minute, I can do those things a lot better than you are doing it. There's a man who was sitting there. He says, hey, you come here. What's your name? I said, Bikram. He said, wow,

come every day here, I will teach you more. And that guy is Bishnu Ghosh we mentioned a little bit earlier. He's the guy who trains Riba and Bishnu. Gosh is the younger brother of a famous guru and an author named Paramahansa Yogananda who wrote a book called Autobiography of a Yogi that was published in nineteen forty six. This is generally seen as the book that helped to widely introduce yoga and meditation to Westerners in the sixties and seventies.

Steve Jobs found Eastern philosophy as a teenager by reading Autobiography of a Yoga and he was a vocal about rereading it every single year. Mark Benioff, who is the current CEO of Salesforce, has set on record that ad Jobs's memorial service, you know, during his funeral, everyone who attended was given a copy of the book. Like That's

how central Jobs considered this. In his own life, George Harrison read Autobiography of a Yogi for the first time in the late nineteen sixties when Ravi Shankar gave him a copy. Elvis Presley readit it around the same time. Now, obviously, I bet, I bet my grandma read it.

Speaker 1

I've been hitting on this nugget that my grandma, my great grandma, a white woman.

Speaker 4

Well taught yoga in the sixties, started.

Speaker 2

To oh sure, oh yeah, Like there's not even a question, there's not even a question that she read that book like it. It was it was like foundational to the to not just like yoga, but just in general to like the New Age movement, right is it? It's just a massively influential text, and as you might expect among religious scholars, as among like historians who study yoga, among people who are like experts in in like the actual like like uh study of the religious traditions that kind

of autobiography of a yoga is talking about. There are very mixed opinions about this book. There are some criticisms that it's basically pure mysticism, filled with stories of miracles and other things you know, seen as impossible. But you know, critiquing what is essentially a religious belief is not the place of this podcast, so I'm not going to get into it. Obviously, this is like an incredibly popular and

influential text about spirituality. Of course, there's there's a myriad set of opinions on it, so it's worth giving this overview of like Bishnu Gosh and his brother, because you know, his brother, who writes autobiography of the Yogi, is a little bit more of a high level kind of spiritual guy.

Whereas Bishnu, while he's he's definitely using some of his brother's ideas, he's very grounded in like physical sciences, and his application of yoga is like really kind of relentlessly focused on both like physical fitness and also physical rehabilitation. And I'm going to quote from the Yoga Pedia here. Bishnu believed that the root of all disease is stress. He thought that the body's energy centers around the spine, so spinal health is key to physical, emotional, and mental health.

He combined weightlifting and bodybuilding with Hatha yoga practice to promote physical and mental wellness. Bishnu Ghosh would work one on one with a student, diagnosing the problem and developing a specific program to promote healing. His program was founded on the eighty four yoga postures that his famous brother caudified. And like, he seems pretty rad. Actually, everything I've read

about him is pretty good. He was a very big advocate for a specific set of abdominal muscle ass isolation exercises traditional to Hatha yoga that his brother taught, and Gosh has kind of like he's got this very academic and even scientific attitude towards integrating this stuff with modern physical education. He trained at the University of Calcutta, and he mixed these kind of ancient teachings about diet and

lifestyle with modern bodybuilding techniques from the West. And in fact, as much of an influence as his brother's book was, Goosh was also influenced by the book Muscle Control by a German bodybuilder named Max Sick. And I don't know, like it's one of those things when I read about it, it makes sense to me just in terms of like

what's worked for me. A big, a major focus of my own exercise is just like lower backshit, because I just kind of noticed as a kid that all of my older male relatives like the thing that aged and like them the most and cause them the most problems and misery in their life was like fucking lower back pain. I think that's not an uncommon story.

Speaker 1

Yeah, And what most people don't necessarily know is how important core strength is to lower back and vice versa, and that absolutely if the back those muscles are actually part of your core or if they're not there, you know. So there are some a lot of like I do a lot of different types of activities. I know, I kind of shit on my yoga practice in episode one. I see it's important, but I have it incorporated in everything I do and that deep.

Speaker 4

Yeah anyway, Yeah.

Speaker 2

No, I mean it makes total sense to me. The idea that like you would kind of look at what makes people get old and be like, oh, well, the back is the key to all this makes total sense to me because like that's what's going to fuck up your mobility more than almost anything else.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so yeah, pretty rebish, new Ghosh, Pretty reasonable dude. So this is the guy that little kid Bikram finds and learns from. And yeah, it was Ghosh who kind of first put together this list of twenty eight asanas and two breathing techniques that Bickram would later take to the West. But for a time he was Bickram's teacher, and,

according to Bikram Chowdery, Bickram was an excellent student. He credits Ghosh as being the greatest health culturist of the twentieth century, a rare compliment for a man who most frequently compliments himself. Oh yeah, oh yeah. I think it's one of those things where like you got to talk up your teacher because like it makes the case that you're extra awesome.

Speaker 4

Yeah, it is. That's a self serving compliment.

Speaker 2

Yeah, for sure. Bickram claims he was such a good student that at age eleven, he entered and won his first major yoga championship, becoming the All India Yoga Champion that year. In competitive yoga is like a thing in India, although as we'll talk about, not really in this period. So he and Gosh, Bikram claimed later toured around the country showing off various feats of yoga prowess as a mix of like Carnival act and evangelical revival for the

religion of yoga. Bickram claims his Guru told him to refuse any payment for the work they were doing and that he lived without any material possessions at this time. If this is true, it's not a habit he's stuck with. Yeah. Bikram also claims that he won the All India Yoga Championships for the next two years in a row. When talking about this three years of purported victories, he said unbeaten. The whole country complains if Bicctram competes, nobody else ever wins,

so they make me retire. Now, this is definitely a lie, like the claim that he was just so good that he was forced to quit by, you know, the yoga powers that be in India. There's an Indian journalist named Chandrama Paul who dug into his backstory with rigor. She was unable to find evidence that there was any sort of All Yoga Champion All India Yoga Championship in the

country at this time that matches his description. The best evidence I found suggests that like it was several years later that like the first competition that kind of matches this came into existence and he probably just sort of retroactively claimed that he'd won it because he knew the record keeping was bad. The Internet wasn't a thing, you know, when he started doing this, it was an easy lie

to get away with. In other versions of the story he would later tell, he would claim that he was asked by the head judge of the competition, yoga luminary Bksi Inngar, to retire from competing in order to give other contestants a chance. Now, most of the version of the Bickram story I'm giving you is from a recorded interview he gave that was used by the producers of a Netflix documentary about the man. But Bickram's claims about himself are not consistent over time, and I'm going to

quote from a write up by NPR summarizing some of them. Here. In some accounts, he started training at three, sometimes at six, other times he won the championship at eleven, twelve or thirteen. And his famous yoga sequence, the very core of Bickram yoga was actually not so much developed or designed by Bickram, but largely observed it with only the slightest of changes from a longer series of ninety one postures that have been firmly in the public domain for the last hundred years.

So you know, this is like not an uncommon kind of grifter backstory that you would like.

Speaker 4

Like a real George Santo's.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's Santo saying pretty already here. The most common Bickram story after this point says that he became next a professional bodybuilder. Again, you always have to double check everything this guy says, because he's an inveterate liar, But there is some evidence for this, namely, there's photos of him looking super jacked and lifting heavy weights. So I can confirm at least that Bikram Chowdery was once yoked as absolute fuck like yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely definitely

was swoll at one point. Yeah, it's like Alex Jones, where it's like, well he was. He was in fact shredded for a period of time, you know. Uh. So he claims that b Ksi Nngar, who's he says is the guy that told him to stop doing yoga so other people could win, advised him to do this, and that he quickly went on to break records in powerlifting. Now, this is probably a lie because there's no evidence of it, and whenever he says something without evidence, it's definitely a lie.

NPR continues and these are you know, his claims. He ran marathons with no training, he became a competitive weightlifter and broke records. He continued public exhibitions, drawing larger and larger crowd, stretching out over a bed of nails, dragging automobiles up and down Calcutta streets, and slowing his heart rate until he could be buried. Alive around this time. Yeah, and this is like he's not the only guy doing this kind of stuff. These are these are like common

sort of like I don't know, tricks. Seems like a little bit reductive, but you get what I'm saying, Like these are common like at performances that that people are doing in the country around this time. It's not He's not the only guy doing this sort of stuff. I'm going to continue that in pr quote. Around this time, Bickram learned he didn't need to sleep. From here, things

get weird. At age seventeen, during a routine training session, Bickram slipped and dropped a three hundred and eighty pound weight on his knee, crushing his patella like a seashell. Doctors who were rushed to the side of the young celebrity declared he'd never walk again. Now, like, that's about what I deadlift at this present moment. I don't know how you would drop a weight because I think in other things that I've read, well, I mean, that's not

really that much. I think in other like it because I think it was like he's claimed that he was basically like deadlifting at the time. He may have been doing like an Olympic lift though, but like I either way, I don't know how you actually crush your knee with the weight, Like I just difficult. It seems hard to drop it on one knee like that, Like it's easy to injure yourself doing lifts like that, but like I don't know how you shatter a single knee that way.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't know how you do it.

Speaker 4

The mechanics are eluding me. That's for you.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, it's a little baffling to try to like work out in your head. He claims that, like the doctors, because he was, like he's in his version of events, he was a super famous weightlifter, and so all these doctors run up to the stage when he hurts himself and they you know, do a scan, and he says his knee is broken into a thousand pieces. And he gets told by these doctors always never even going to be able to walk again, and he's like, no, I

won't accept this. I will learn to walk again. And so he claims that, like you know, is in kind of this journey to prove them wrong. He heals himself by discovering this mix of asanas and breathing techniques that he's later going that are later going to become what's known as bickram yoga or you know in some cases hot yoga, right that he invins it in order to

heal his shattered knee. This in almost this like supernatural fashion, and like I'm not going to say, like, if you've got bad knees, I think there's there's different things in yoga that can be helpful with that. I don't think doing hot yoga is gonna heal your knee if it shattered into a thousand pieces. I question that.

Speaker 1

No, honestly, Yeah, hot yoga gives you a risk of injuring those muscles because you don't you're so lu you're so warm that you don't know when you've gone too far.

Speaker 2

Yeah. AnyWho, Yeah, then yeah, there's a bunch of risks of overtraining with it. Yeah. But he says that in six months of doing this yoga his leg is all better. But he's sadly is no longer jacked because he had to give up weightlifting. So that's tragic. We hate to see it. So Ghosh told him to travel to Mumbai next and open a shop and teach this marvelous new healing sequence to all comers, using his injury as proof

of his prowess. His yoga techniques exploded in popularity and in short order people were calling him Yoga Raj, the Guru of Mumbai. He continued on this path for several years until Bishnu Goosh got sick or in some versions of the story, Gosh decided to die and induce a heart attack and himself at age sixty nine. I don't know, Bickram is like, yeah, he decided that that was the least painful way to die and he was done being alive, which, honestly, boss, move if that's the case, if.

Speaker 4

You control and you're able to do it.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, man, Hey, I'm gonna go worse ways to leave the world. Sure, And also sixty nine pretty funny age to make it too, so yeah, yeah nice. Bikram claims that before he went, Ghosh made him swear an oath quote. My Guru took my hand and told me something in English which he never spoke. Promise me you will complete my incomplete job, he said. He meant bringing yoga to the rest of the world, to the West and America, and I replied, yes, I promise I will.

And again there's no evidence that, I mean, he definitely worked with Ghosh. There's no evidence that Gosh was like in the you know, at the end of his life. You must you must promise me that you'll go to America and teach them yoga. You'll go, You'll go, please, like your sacred duty is to go to Hollywood and teach fucking you know, what's his name? The guy from Er George Clooney had a fucking stretch better here.

Speaker 1

It's also like, if this Ghostbella is as enlightened and wonderful as he's being made out to be, and I'd like, we haven't gotten to the specifics of Bikerm yet, but yeah, I've got an idea of where this is going.

Speaker 4

Hi, Yeah, I don't think that he would be this.

Speaker 1

He must know this person's character, like no any him as wanting money, all the money, and yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean you have to assume, you know, at this point, Bickram's claiming that he's, you know, he has no money. He's just kind of living, you know, off of donations and refusing to accumulate any any kind of wealth or possessions. Again, there's also no evidence that this is true, but perhaps it was. People go on go through journeys. It is kind of worth noting the yo he is doing, the yoga that he like that Ghosh is doing that he kind of like takes is not

really hot yoga. Yet he's doing it. Obviously, he's doing it in like Calcutta, which is an extremely fucking hot part of the world. He's doing it in Mumbai, also very hot part of the world. But it's not they are not heating up where they're doing these sessions specifically, right, That's not a part of it. Yeah, So it's it's worth kind of looking at the story as we kind of go into this next phase of Bickram's life of Bikram Chowdhurry as not just the story of a guy

who you know later becomes an abusive cult leader. That is an element of this, but the way that he's crafted this kind of story about his early background also owes a lot to kind of long held storytelling traditions in Indian culture. Chandrympaul, who's that journalist I quoted earlier when interviewed about her research into Bickram, is always careful to point out that The fabulous and often impossible stories he weaves for listeners are reminiscent of the many tall

tales in popular Indian books, movies, and folklore. We grew up with characters like this. To actually find someone in the flesh and blood who was capable of spinning these yarns was quite something, and you know, yeah, it's it's it's like if you if you spend a lot of time, like in India, talking like just like about different kind of historical figures and stuff, you'll encounter some pieces of this.

Like I under like, it makes sense to me that like she's kind of trying to integrate him into this this kind of tradition of sort of like local folklore, because you can't really understand how he's portraying himself sort of without that. It's not it's not quite the same as as like the way in which like a George Santos lies in.

Speaker 1

The United States and you know, me little bit stand there's a cultural suspension of disbelief.

Speaker 2

Yeah maybe maybe a little bit, yeah.

Speaker 1

You know, an acceptance, And it's not it's not the way we see a George Santos as just being a liar.

Speaker 2

Yeah, he's also not going to do most of this lying over there, So maybe I think it might it might be more. I think what Sandrina is saying is more that like, well, he probably gets to some extent, he's probably kind of inspired in like how he's framing himself by the way these stories of these other kind of folkloric figures are told. Yeah, which makes sense. You know what else makes sense, Katie?

Speaker 1

Uh, using podcasts to sell stuff.

Speaker 2

Using podcasts to sell Who better to tell you what to spend your money on? Then two people whose primary job is sitting in front of a microphone and you know, talking about shitty people. Where else can you learn what products and services are are going to finally make you happy?

Speaker 1

Absolutely, this is probably the only place that you can possibly be advertised to, I think these days.

Speaker 2

Oh absolutely, Yeah, It's it's very hard to find, you know, people whose life experience, uh is largely limited to the entertainment industry, who can tell you, you know, here's here's what you can spend your money on to finally be happy. You know, this is this is it folks.

Speaker 4

But you can trust us.

Speaker 2

Yeah, you can trust us. We we have your best interests at heart, that's all, Katie and I talk about, you know, in private, is your best interests? What do you think? What do you think is good for for our fans? Katie? You know that's what we ask ourselves. Anyway, spend some fucking money, you you sheep. Ah, we're back.

Speaker 4

I hope spend your money.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I hope you sheep are happy.

Speaker 4

Well, code bastards. I don't know.

Speaker 2

Yeah, Katie, I've got I've heard this new technique that I'm using with the fans. It's called negging. You heard of this? Have you seen this? Have you heard about this? It works great?

Speaker 4

Heard about it? Yes, it does work very well, unfortunately.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I'm big into it these days. It's a it's it's great. Really, it does work so groundbreaking. Yeah, yeah, it's good. I'm trying it everywhere now. The other day, I was at the gas station and you know, in Oregon, you're not allowed to fill your own gas up because that's considered dangerous and sketchy for for reasons that are impossible to explain. But I'm at the gas station and I just kind of started, you know, negging my gas station attendant as he was filling up my car, and uh,

you know, I gotta I got a dollar off. Yeah, I think you just want to rest me. Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1

See everybody get out and Robert, what are you doing. Everyone's going to become absolute assholes.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's that's the world. I want to say that ship's disrespect Sophie, Sophie, it's the it's the only way to destroy the power of the pick up artists. If everyone is negging, then their teachings will have no worse behind them.

Speaker 3

Be nice, to be nice to the gas station workers.

Speaker 6

Wow, okay, yes, last time I got gas, I got a great boomer joke from my They were like, do you want to receipt? And I was like, no, thank you. They're like, that's cool. Receipts are for boomers. God, that was a product and a service, Thank you, sir.

Speaker 2

It is so funny, like this fucking state, like an Oregon, like you can open carry, you know, a sword, should you wish, completely unregulated. You can buy still basically any kind of firearm that's legal in the United States. But if you want to pump your own gas, that's a problem. Yeah, the state's got issues with that. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 4

I love it. I would it would take me a minute to adjust. But I think it would be thought I would hate it. It's delightful.

Speaker 2

See, I hate it. But I like pumping my own gas.

Speaker 3

Because you're knowing WEIRDO continue.

Speaker 2

I like to get out, you know, the start pumping gas, light a couple of cigarettes. You know, sometimes I just toss lit cigarettes around the gas station. It's a good time. It's a good time. So we're talking about Bickram Chowdery. So at any rate, we can say with some certainty that Bickram next left India for Japan, and this is where he would make what is, by some accounts, the only real breakthrough of his career. He found the winters

in Japan horrible. Again, This is a guy who grows up in India in particularly hot parts of India, and Japan has real rough winters. Right, large parts of Japan get extremely fucking cold. So he is miserable there and he has difficulty. He finds he has difficulty performing a number of his the postures that he's trying to do because he's like shivering so badly. So he decides to

bring yes fucking shattered, ask me. He decides to bring in space heaters to class first, just to keep himself warm, and then he notices that, like, the students who are kind of nearer to the heater are like having an easier time, So he puts more heaters in the room, and he notices that the warmer he makes the room the easier of a time, his students have locking up their knees and touching the floor with their palms and

doing you know, a number of the movements. Over time, he keeps turning the room off hotter and hotter and hotter, until the temperature in the room matched the vicious heat of Calcutta, where he'd first trained, And he seems to have started at around like ninety five degrees, but eventually settled on one oh five, although sometimes he'd crank things

up to like one ten. Now there is an extent to which heat, you know, you can like it like you put a heating pad on, like if you've got like a stiff knee or something, and you'll notice that it like makes it easier to move. Heat can benefit movement and make it easier for people with conditions like arthritis to move. But as you noted earlier, Katie, that

can there's sometimes that can be helpful. It can allow people to do the kind of stretching and exercise that can you know, help deal with and entreat and improve their condition. But also it makes it easier to overtrain, right like if you're because like maybe you'll go a little like too hard, harder than you ought to than you would if you like.

Speaker 4

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1

The yoga that I have perhaps the most well not the most I've done some heated yoga, and there are absolutely some benefits to it.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, you get a hell of a workout.

Speaker 4

Yeah, hell of a workout.

Speaker 1

It make it made me incredibly nauseous though, oh yeah, multiple times. Uh, And you're like so far away from the door and there's all these people dealing with their own issues in the heat, and you're like, how do I get out of here?

Speaker 4

Byfore I throw up over everyone?

Speaker 2

No, And that's the that's the part. So there are again, like there's benefits to like doing yoga in warmer rooms, the actual medfical benefits well, uh, where off will before one hundred degrees and like by the time you get

up that high you are like there. You know, there are some benefits to it, but like there's serious risk of like heat stroke, of overtraining people die doing this, you know, and in part because like it is a it can be traumatic for your body to exercise like that in that kind of heat, especially if you're not drinking enough water, if you're not like you know, taking proper precautions. Not that it's bad for everybody, but like a number of people are going to have problems in

that kind of environment. That said, when you're when you put people in that kind of situation when it's one hundred one hundred and five hundred and ten and they're doing these intense stretches in this like boiling heat with this group of people and you've got you know, as you as you stated, Katie, it can make you feel like you're like locked in and trapped. But also if you can, if you push through that, there's a kind of physical elation even euphoria that a lot of people

experience when they're doing that. And also because it is so difficult, there's like a kind of trauma bonding that you can get with other people you're doing And so it it's addictive, right, yeah, you know, like there's a yeah, there's a degree which it's just deeply addictive. The inciting incident for Bickram's rise to power, wealth and influence, and his version of events was a long trip that President Richard Milhouse Nixon took to Southeast Asia that included a

visit to Japan in nineteen seventy three. This was to shore up the increasingly toxic relations between our two countries due to his agreement to visit China. He's like, you know, in a number of parts of the region at this time. It's kind of unclear where Bickram is supposed to have met him, but Bickram claims that during Nixon's time in the region, he's you know, he's riddled with phlebitis, which is an inflammation of a vein that can It's usually

not serious, but it can cause serious health issues. And you know, Nixon is you wouldn't call him our healthiest president, right. I sure Nixon is, like he claims to have like that his phlebitis is like reared up to such a level that he like might lose his leg at some point. You could find like news articles about this, but they don't come out until he's like getting pardoned by Gerald Ford.

So I think there's a degree to which it's like, oh, was Nixon just sort of pretending that he was super sick in order to get people to like, you know, maybe want to lay off him to get like sympathy.

Speaker 1

But really that's a pr move I've ever heard one.

Speaker 2

And Bikram doesn't start making these claims about Nixon until kind of like years after this would have happened, So

it looks like what happened. Nixon is in Southeast Asia before his like visit with Mao, and then a couple of years later when he gets forced out of office, he he like talks about how bad his pholebitis is to get sympathy, and Bickram is like, oh, yeah, you know, when he was in Southeast Asia, Nixon like his people brought me to him, They like flew me out to him so that I could like help him with his phlebitis and I got him in a swimming pool and

we did yoga together, right. I think in one version of the story, he spends like four days with Nixon and that like he like basically teaches him a set of asanas that Nixon can do in order to like make his flebbitis better, and it works so well that the President can't tell any longer yellow, which was his good leg and which was his bad leg. Because Bickram's just so good at this stuff. And Bickram says that, you know, tells Nixon, if you do your yoga regularly,

the problem won't persist. Which number one, the idea, the very idea that Dick Nixon ever did yoga, I find inconceivable, Like I simply don't believe it. But it's also like, you know, after this point he will continue to complain about his phlebitis, which I guess if you're Bickram, you could be like, well, you know, Nixon didn't keep his yoga up or whatever, Like I don't know if you're if you're a kind of liar, you can find ways

to explain this away. In any case, Bickram claims the president was so great that he expedited and signed off on a special green card just for Bickram. In some versions of the story, he like greets Bickram on the runway when the yogi flies into the United States to start his first school. I gotta tell you right now, we're talking about like all of the different like timing shit on this. There's no way this happened, Yeah, right,

like this absolutely did not occur. There's no evidence the two men ever met Researchers have talked to the Nixon Library and were like, hey, this like very prominent yoga guy is claiming that like Nixon got him a green card and he like cured Nixon's phil bidis with yoga. Is there any evidence that the two even talk to

each other? And the Nixon Library folks like went through their records looking for any evidence that the two men ever met a correspondent and there's just there's absolutely nothing.

Speaker 4

Now you feel like there would be something.

Speaker 2

You feel like because like, look, Nixon covered up a lot of shit about his presidency, but I don't feel like he would have fought to cover this up like this, This couldn't couldn't be a priority for Dick to like ide yeah, And it's like it's it's it's fascinating because I.

Speaker 4

Would watch a movie about this relationship though.

Speaker 2

I would, Yeah, I would like a little buddy comedy Dick Nixon and is like yoga guru hanging out in whatever, Indonesia or something.

Speaker 1

Like yeah, yeah, Nick k I don't know why, Nick Cage, but.

Speaker 2

No, Nick k Oh Nick Cage as Nixon I feel like we do deserve that.

Speaker 1

Like I basically I think that's the level because we don't want to do any reverence to Nixon.

Speaker 4

No, no, no, let Nick Cage do his thing to Nixon.

Speaker 2

Nick k like Nick Cage just doing drunk Nixon, like learning how to do yoga like that's yeah, that's a that's that's perfect.

Speaker 5

Maybe that would be casting. Okay, continue again, Hulu hit us up. You know we've got this ship. So Bickram, he does make it to the United States, he does get a green card. I just there's no evidence that fucking Nixon signed and Bickram launched his Yoga College of India at a small North Beach studio in San Francisco in nineteen seventy two, which again doesn't seem to time out with when Nixon was in Southeast Asia.

Speaker 4

But whatever that, it does time out with my great grandma.

Speaker 2

It does time out with your great grandma. I've also, again, there's always multiple shit. I found some articles that say Bickram's first studio was in Beverly Hills. I think it was in San Francisco, but it's a little unclear either way. You get the idea.

Speaker 4

Pretty sure she was still in San Francisco at that point.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, there's a good chance she was aware of this guy. So his yoga studio, with its heaters and boiling temperatures, an intense series of stretches and breeding exercises, took the new health conscious California set by storm. He hits the California New Age community like a fucking bomb.

I'm going to quote from The Guardian here. From the mid nineteen seventies onwards, he drew in a celebrity clienteleading Michael Jackson, Jeff Bridges, Shirley Maclain, Barbara streisand and Raquel Welch. His classes, heated to a regulation forty degrees celsius, designed to mimic conditions in Kolkatta, offered a combination of constructive hazing, cosmic wisdom, and pantomime eccentricity. He would wear speedos and

issue bizarre commands. In two thousand and seven, a writer for GQ magazine went to a class and reported him telling a student, you miss teeny winnie bikinis, spread your legs. He loaded the color green and banned people from wearing it. He had never seen carpet until he arrived in America. And believing it represented the height of luxury. Had all

his studios carpeted, hygiene be damned, which is horrible. You do not want a room, Yeah, you do not want a room designed to be sweated, to have carpets.

Speaker 4

Oh no, that's so bad.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's not great, that's not ideal.

Speaker 4

Carpet didn't last a week before.

Speaker 2

No, oh horrible. So it was actually actress Shirley Maclain who he credits with convincing him to give up the esthetic, possession less life of a yogi that his guru had advised him and to start charging for instruction. She had met him in Mumbai years ago at his first yoga shop and told him that while taking donations might work in his home country, Americans couldn't possibly understand the concept, right.

I think there's some example of like, they won't respect it, they won't like take it seriously if they're not spending money on it, YadA, YadA, YadA. Speaking of which, Katie, do you know what is worth taking seriously because it costs money?

Speaker 4

I don't know, Robert. Is it products and services.

Speaker 2

To be average as products and services? It is? Yeah? Just you know what? Don't even look, I'm going to need something from the audience here, which is a little bit of faith in us. You know, don't don't even listen to what the ads are for. Just go to the first URL I read to you during the ad break, figure out their bank routing number and wire them your life savings.

Speaker 1

Just do it.

Speaker 2

You know, what's the horm code? Yeah? Yeah, use the promo code. You get five percent off of your life savings, you know, do ith There we go ads, Oh we're back. I yeah. I hope you're all enjoying the possessionless life of a yogi now that you've given your life savings to I don't know, fucking Blue Apron or whoever who sponsors as Sophie is at Blue Apron HelloFresh, Hello Fresh Yeah yeah, send him the money. They need it.

Speaker 6

So.

Speaker 2

Over the years, you know, Shirley Maclain kind of tells Bickram that he has to give up, you know, living without possessions and taking you know, funding his his yoga based on donations and start charging people. Over the years, as his actual contact with celebrities expanded, Bickram starts telling lurid lies about other famous people he'd worked with. He took credit for opening the Beatles up to Eastern Spirituality, claiming that he had worked with them in nineteen fifty

nine and helped like bring them, you know together. The Beatles did not exist in nineteen fifty nine, so like this definitely did not happen.

Speaker 1

Well, I mean maybe the early version of the Beatles, back when they still had Pete Best do on the exact timeline, but they were so far.

Speaker 4

Off in this stage.

Speaker 2

Yeah, definitely drugs. Yeah, no, they hadn't. They weren't doing anything cool. Like it's like, actually, the Beatles, like getting into Eastern Spirituality is super well documented and none of the ah bitram jottery we would know, Yeah, it would not be it would not be hard to prove. He claimed to have taught his yoga to astronauts at NASA's behest. There is again no evidence of this in reality where he did have a lot a lot of famous people

are doing Bickram yoga. You can find like clips of you know, like fucking George Clooney and shit talking about doing Bickram in various like late night shows and shit. But while he you know, winds up a lot of famous people do his yoga. His first follower in the United States is a reggueler dude named Tony Sanchez. Tony started taking Bickram's yoga in nineteen seventy six while he was still in high school n PR Rights. After his first class, Sanchez approached Choudhury to thank him and asked

what his philosophy of life was. He said, be good to others, so others will be good to you. Chowdhury was already heating his studio, but only to eighty five or ninety degrees. Sanchez started coming in every day, then began working the front desk part time. He felt that yoga was sacred, says Sanchez, a discipline that would actually help people not only physically but also mentally, spiritually, and morally.

And this is where you get to kind of a thing that's unclear to me, which is like, was Bikram a khan man from the beginning or was he someone who developed into a con man over time as he got influence over people, as he got like exposed to wealth, like did he kind of degenerate? And part of why it's unclear is that from the time he becomes prominent, he's lying about his past. He's lying about all this stuff.

That happened, and I think that can kind of like back words cloud the story of the guy that he is when you get like one of the things that's interesting about what Tony says is he's like, yeah, you know, it's like eighty five or ninety degrees, which is like a reasonable temperature for to do a hot yoga thing in, but he keeps bringing it up up up up to a degree that's like a lot less healthy and a

lot less reasonable. I think over time he realizes, like the intense impact that this has on people, that it kind of the unpleasantness makes it more addictive, and I feel like there's a degree to which that's something he's

absolutely conscious of and like purposefully doing. I also think it's possible that like he comes in with better motivations at the start, and as he gets famous, he becomes sort of more Number one, having money changes you, and number two having that degree of influence over people, like people following you, treating you as a guru. That's not like good for you, Like it doesn't make you a better personally.

Speaker 4

And we can all blame Shirley McLain for this.

Speaker 1

I guess, yes, greatest monster, you you what was his teacher's name, Ghosh.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Guru Ghosh.

Speaker 4

He I mean you specifically said that.

Speaker 1

He specifically said, we cannot accept money for these teachings. Yeah, And I don't know, maybe I've just seen this movie too, not this specific movie, but like the story of the person that, you know, the younger person that says, but it can be this way or whatever, and or you know, really I wants to go to America.

Speaker 4

Whatever it is. I don't know, missing pieces showing. I don't know. I think that there is. It sounds like the origins of his training were legit.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but.

Speaker 4

Yeah, he's not contaminated.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's certainly. It's like it's unclear like was he always this kind of guy or did it happen later? You know, that's a little bit of a mystery. I think guys like Sanchez seem to suggest that, like he was a better person earlier on, which isn't surprising to me if that is the case, Like that's not the only time that's happened.

Speaker 1

Yeah, we just did a whole episode on money and how to fix people over at our other show Some More News.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so that's that's definitely a part of the Bickram Chowdery story. So when Sanchez meets this guy, he says the yogi was attached to his strict Indian diet, but as Chowdery began to make some money, he found a fellow Indian immigrant to emulate the controversial Ashrom leader Bogwan Shri raj Niche. If you watch that show Wild Wild Country, right like that that's the guy and ra you know, there's a number of things problematic about him, but a big thing that he's doing is he gets super rich.

He has this very large colt and he's like always he dries everywhere he goes. He's in the fucking Rolls Royce. Yeah, he's ye Rolexs And Bickram sees this and is like, oh shit, that actually looks pretty dope, right. Rajnische is also like a sex guru right now. Sanchez claims that when he meets him, Chowdhurry is in. He's in. You know, he's got a couple relationships over time, but they're always monogamous. He's interested in like massages and stuff, but he's not

really like motivated by sex. Sanchez claims that even told him, like, I'm not really sex doesn't mean much to me. This is not always going to be the case for Bickram. During a trip back to India in nineteen eighty four, he met Rajashri, a teenaged girl who became his wife via an arranged marriage. She was a yoga champion at the same school he'd studied at, and the whole situation is kind of problematic. But as far as I've been able to tell, she seems to have been an active

and engaged part of his business. There are a lot of allegations that she is a huge part of the fucked up shit he does later. She's certainly an enabler right of this, that is, that is at least something that people will allege. It is, in fact, after marrying Rosistere that he got really serious about expanding his business. By the end of the nineteen eighties, Bickram was making good money and steadily expanding both the size and the

notoriety of his business. As the money rolled in, Bickram equipped himself with the trappings of wealth, a Rolex watch and a fleet of Bentley's. He would try to like claim that this didn't mean that he was, you know, as rich as he was, by telling interviewers like, oh, these Bentley's were like Rex, and I restored them all, you know, you know, and my my main job is helping restore people to health. But my spare time I fixed Bentley's. Again, zero evidence of this.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's really hard to square this spiritual kind of a thing with wanting Bentley.

Speaker 2

Yeah, especially multiple Bentley's. Right, Yeah, you get rich and you get one Bentley. Like, I don't know, maybe you could still be like when you by the point you have a fleet of Bentley's, It's like, I don't know, man like that. That seems like it seems like there's probably some something shady going on here. Yeah. So it is around this time that the first signs of what we might call clt shit from Bikram become a parent.

It started the same year as his marriage, when he excommunicated his first student, Sanchez, after Bikram demanded that he break up with his girlfriend and Sanchez refused. So that's we've got some cults. He's trying to isolate his followers from, like their loved ones and stuff, you know, you can's that's that we're starting to get into that good old fashioned cult shit. Right by the early nineteen nineties, Bikram

had expanded to Tokyo in San Francisco. He started holding teacher training classes each three months long, and he would accept just twenty five trainees per year, although eventually he increases that substantially. People paid somewhere around ten thousand dollars for the privilege of learning from Bickram for several weeks. Classes were intense, including hours of stretches every day in blazing heat, long dia tribes from Bickram that had to be listened to in full, and late nights of Bollywood

movies in Bickram's hotel. He still claimed that he didn't really need to sleep, so nobody else should either. Bickram was extremely discriminating about who he allowed to open schools and who he allowed to use the Bickram name. He was also proactive about policing what he saw as his brand. In nineteen eighty five, Raquel Welch published a book that he claimed was a copy of his different yoga teachings.

He settled with her for enough money to buy a house in Beverly Hills, and look, maybe Raquel Welch was stealing somebody's from Bickram. I certainly, like it seems like there was enough there that he was able to force a settlement on the issue. In two thousand and two, he's like, I don't I'm not invested in Raquel Welch's intellectual honest. Yeah. So like it's whatever.

Speaker 4

Yeah, but also it's like you're scummy too, like.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, it's what. Yeah. So he settles for her. He gets a house in Beverly Hills. He says some like wild shit about her like that, like she's in terrible shape and like has horrible muscles, and it's like, man, she is Raquel Welch in the nineteen case, like we like nobody's kind of bond. Yeah, nobody's buying. Yeah. In two and two, we have eyes, Yeah we can. We

can go watch a series of nineteen eighties movies. In two thousand and two, he started registering trademarks and applied for a copyright for his yoga, which you'll remember was based on a series of asanas and breathing patterns that were generations old and had first been organized in the structure that Bickram used by his matester bishnu Ghosh, who'd made no attempt to like copyright them or limit who could use.

Speaker 4

Them, right, Yeah, you very much do remember that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's super fucked up. He starts this process of trying to be like I own this kind of yoga and you can't do it without paying me in two thousand and two. Uh. That eventually led to a long series of lawsuits, which gets settled in twenty twelve when the US Copyright off and a federal judge say like, no, you can't do this. You can't copy your ideoga like it's which is fine. That's yeah, a good good call.

Speaker 4

Yeah, it seems like the right choice.

Speaker 2

Yeah. It would be like if you developed like a mix of like squats and like weightlifting, and we're like, I own this. No, man like people, you can't copyright how people use their bodies. Yeah, yeah, you can copyright I don't know having Richard Simmons do it, but you can't copyright the movements themselves. So it is unclear when precisely Bram started to sexually harass and abuse students, but we do know that this was a fairly regular occurrence

by the early two thousands. When Sarah Bond took her first class, her first Bickram class in Washington State, she was a sophomore in college and had suffered from scoliosis since high school. So obviously, like, this is the kind of thing that Gosh developed, you know this, this mix of asanas and breathing technics specifically to treat Here's how Vanity Fair describes what happens next. What happened next is

the archetypal Bickram story. She loved the yoga, and as it healed her spine and spirit became consumed by it, dropping out of school and taking out loans to attend teacher training so that she might devote her life to this thing that had changed her life. She was pretty and enthusiastic the first week, with Chowdery presiding, every trainee introduced herself for himself. When it was Bond's term, she said, this yoga saved me. Now I'm happy. I don't get sick,

I don't get pain. As Bond recalls in an interview, I looked up to Bickram and said at Bickram, I love you more than chocolate, and everybody laughed, and he laughed. The third night, as students were demonstrating postures, she says she found Chowdery staring at her, then watched as he dispatched a young woman brushing his hair to bring Bond his diamond spangled rolex. She returned it after class. She was flattered by the guru's attention. I had a very

deep backbend. I thought he probably just noticed my spine, but also found it uncomfortable. After class, he kept her behind, she says. He told her they knew each other from past life and kissed her on the cheek. On the fifth day of training, According to the lawsuit filed this past March by Bonn, Chowdery called her into his office and said, should we make this a relationship? I have

never never felt like this about anyone. Shocked, she protested, made her way out of the office and broke into tears, She says. After telling her boyfriend what had happened, she approached Greg Vlani, who ran teacher training and, according to Bonn's legal complaint, revealed Chowdery's overture to him as well. In an interview, Bond told me that Villani said she should separate the man from the teacher and not tell Chowdery's wife what had happened. So that's you know, that's gross.

There's a lot of that too, and part of it is that, you know, some of these other teachers all had like some of the different kind of physical problems that were helped by you know, this yoga they're doing, and then like Bonn, they kind of turn it into their life because they get you know, they feel both the sense of gratitude to it and maybe even kind of an addiction, and it also becomes the way that they make money, and so so over and over, you hear this idea that like a woman will come in

with a complaint and like everyone will be aware that Bickram is a creep, but they'll kind of be like, just just don't be alone with him. We'll all stay in the room when you guys are together, We'll make sure that you're never alone or whatever. And they always fall short of that. There's kind of maybe some suspicions you get reading it that sometimes they know that they're abandoning her, right, Like it's unclear.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it is an unfortunately very classic story of a man in power using that abusing that position, and people enabling it. There's a myth there's a magic to him, even though it is more modern. We're not talking about the last episode, whereas you know, turn of the century, nineteen hundred, but like it.

Speaker 4

And you know that still exists. It's a little bit better now, but not much.

Speaker 2

Yeah, not much at all. And like you know what, honestly, like as much of this is based in like yoga and mysticism. The abuser, one of the abusers that most reminds me of Bickram is fucking Weinstein.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's like this. He's this big industry figure. They are all working for him, their careers rely on his approval. And that's the center of the abuse that he's able to do. And that's in a big part of the abuse he's able to do is a lot of people around him. They're not all entirely aware, but like they know enough and they just kind of like avoid making it there, letting it be their problem, you know. Also, which means throwing a colleague under the bus, you know.

Speaker 1

Yeah, And as we've established with this copyright thing, Yeah, you know, I'm trying to it's he does. He is he has successfully positioned positioned himself at the center of a practice that actually is very helpful for people that actually he can be life changing.

Speaker 4

Yeah, but that's not him, He's not.

Speaker 2

No, he's taking the teachings of you know, his his guru, who was a much better, like actual expert on physical health. He's tweaked them a little bit, but like he's he's pretending that like he is the font of these techniques that have benefited people, when in reality he's just kind of like enclosing them and capitalizing on them and then using his perceived control over them to abuse women who guy.

So the entire world of teaching this popular brand of yoga is basically close to you without Bickram's approval, and as someone whose serious spinal problems had been treated to a substantial degree by this yoga, someone who also had decided to like make this her professional life, Bond more or less took the advice of her colleagues at first, right where she's just like, I'm just going to try

not to be alone with them. Yeah, I'll try to separate, you know, the teachings from the things about him that are imperfect. You know, nobody's perfect, right like she's doing. You know, this is not an uncommon way to react to this. She continues to attend events while he's present, and you know, just tried to avoid being alone with him.

Bram had picked. Bickram had picked another mistress by this point, which helped on the few occasions when he did try to make advances on Bond, she was able to get away. So for a while things are fine. She's moving up in yoga. She's an extremely prominent person in the community. She's doing great, and eventually Bickram's wife invites her to a Thanksgiving dinner at their home. This was a big event within the professional community, so she chose to attend there.

Bickram waited until other folks had left and his wife went to bed, and he assaulted Bonn again, like he comes after her. He's, you know, putting it on her and stuff. He's like going in with his hands. She reacts negatively to his advances. He complains about being lonely and calls his wife a bitch. And then when Bond still didn't buy it, when she somehow didn't find that endearing, he said, you will never be a champion without me.

Sure enough, at the next year's Yoga Championships, she came in second, despite what she claims should have been a clear victory. Now I can't judge that statement. I'm not a yoga expert. NPR talked to one of the judges. There's one judge who like bound claims, was like tells her you were robbed, right, Basically, Bickram came to the judges and told us not to give you the win. NPR talked to that same judge, and the judge kind of waffled. They didn't back up Bond's claims, but they

also like didn't deny them either. So I don't entirely know if that's accurate, but there's significant evidence that he harmed a number of people's careers directly when they would not like yield, and including Bond, when they would not like yield to his sexual demands. Later that year, at a training camp in Acapulco, Bond was assaulted again by

Bickram and again managed to get away. From this point on, he stopped letting her teach advanced classes and contacted studios that had booked her for sessions and advised them to drop her. And when I say, as salt, we're generally talking about like you know, going in like like not you know, we're talking about like sexual harassment, right, like sexual harassment on to a degree that's legally actionable. So yeah, there are numerous other stories of Bickram's behavior with other women,

many that unfortunately went even worse than Bond's own. As a rule, Bickram seems to have a pattern. He will invite promising new instructors into his inner circle. At some event, they will all wind up in his hotel room watching Bollywood movies. At a certain point, everyone else just kind of knows to leave, and then Bikram has his way

or attempts to have his way with someone else. Vanity Fair describes what happened to another instructor, Larissa Anderson quote one day after dinner, when Rajastri had gone to bed, chowder asked her to give him a message while he watched a Bollywood movie. Eventually, Anderson says, she started to nod off from fatigue, but Chowdery asked her to stay, then tried to kiss her. She said no, she wasn't

interested in that. You are my family and I want to go to bed now, but Chowdery persisted and raped her. According to Anderson's suit, Larissa was horrified and went into what she now understands was trauma shock. She simply froze. Larissa could not find her voice to cry out for help. Defendant forcefully spread Larissa's legs apart and ejaculated. It did not last long. That's a very you know, clinical police way of talking. But you know that's a sexual assault.

You know that's rape. Like Bonn Anderson was unable to leave the environment, right. She has spent a huge amount of money making a profession out of teaching yoga. This is her job. She can't just like bounce right. It's not like, you know, not that it's easy when it's like someone that you're socially related to with. But like her ability to like survive is reliant upon being involved

in this community. She believed that her life would be effectively over if she lost Bickram's favor entirely, so she tried to continue on keeping her distance from the man. This was, as covered basically impossible. Bickram's other instructors seemed to have been at least passive accomplices, clearing out with surprising regularity when he wanted time alone with a new victim. Again, it's unclear what they knew what he told them, But yeah, it seems a little sketchy when you read a bunch

of these stories kind of in sequence yeah quote. The pattern allegedly repeated with Jane Doe one, who liked Jane do two, filed suit early last May. When Jane Doe one assisted at the Fall Teacher Training in twenty eleven, she says Chattery flattered her by saying he had a gift for her, a transmission, because they thought the same. According to the suit, on another night soon after, he told her, I have never met someone who had a mine quite like my Guru. You have the divine in you.

You have been touched by God. One morning, her legal complaint asserts, when she was doing her duty of tidying his suite and making sure there was fresh fruit, Chottery surprised her and forced her onto the bed, pulling her pants off. As she told him she didn't want to do this, he called her idiot over and over. She says, he forced her to perform oral sex, then raped her. According to the suit, defendant Chowdery force fully manipulated her legs into a yoga posture and laughed at her, saying

you are a yoghini. As with the other women, Jane Doe Well number one says walking away from the Bickram yoga community wasn't a simple choice for her. She was broke. She had spent what was for her a lot of money to attend teacher training and had invested the last five years of her life in teaching Bickram. She stayed at the training and kept working, though she broke down crying at a staff meeting, then cleaning Chowdery's room. Days later,

she says she was attacked again. The plaintiff could not feel in her body. She felt dissociated. Jane Doe's Number ones lawsuit says she could not run erect. Plaintiff remembers feeling that his sexual assaults were incestuous, like a family member attacking her. Eventually, she borrowed money from her mother to enable her to leave the training.

Speaker 4

Yeah. Yeah, and it's he's horrifying, really yeah, I mean it's terror.

Speaker 2

He's a fucking monster. Like these are. I do want to talk a little bit because this is a very common thing that you will encounter from like shitty people, particularly cops when someone is raped, is like why didn't you fight back? Right? Why didn't you? And like these these are you know, Bickram is an older guy. These women are often like physically taller and even sometimes stronger

than him, you know, why don't they fight back? I And to tell to kind of talk about that one of the things that comes up in my mind a lot. I interviewed a man years ago who, while he was a marine stationed in Iraq going out and combat missions every day, was raped by his male sergeant. And he was like, he was not bigger than me, Like I was a I like fought for a living. I was very, very physically strong. He describes it the same way that

Jane do Won. He just associated right, the fact that this person who he had like been in this trusting position with the fact that this person he was like relying on to keep him safe out in combat like assaulted him. He just completely lost the ability to physically act.

Speaker 1

Right, because you also don't know what the ramifications of reacting might be a bigger picture.

Speaker 4

Who's going to believe you x y Z my job? There's but also just in that moment, yeah, to give uh.

Speaker 1

I mean probably a lot of your listeners already know this. But it's not fight or flight. It's fight flight, fawn or freeze. Yeah, and especially when someone is attacking you in a position of power. Uh, You there's something in you your body business, assist you.

Speaker 4

You don't know.

Speaker 1

You might want to like appease the situation. You might want to try other tactics than fight. You're not fighting somebody you respect necessarily, You're still figuring out what the fuck is happening to you.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and again we're kind of bringing this up just to note that like everything these these women have said is completely consistent with I mean, god knows how many millions over our time of sexual assault. These are not uncommon store There's nothing about this that is that is abnormal in terms of their reactions or

how they how they handle this. Eight women in total would eventually accuse bitrum of rape while or various other kinds of sexual assault and while all or harassment, and while all this is going on, he would brag loudly and often like kind of like weirdly about his sexual prowess in interviews, claiming stuff like that he had seventy two hours of marathon sex while my partner has forty nine orgasms I count. He also claimed this was I think this was him kind of trying to protect himself.

He would tell interviewers that women begged to have sex with him. Like from his classes, and that would they had threatened to kill themselves if he said no. And again I suspect that was him like trying to like set up like, oh so if somebody later accuses me, I can say, like, oh, no, it was that, you know. I that's my guess as to why he was doing that. So all of this is fucking nightmarish, but none of it's what brought his empire down. It started with simple racism.

In May of twenty eleven, Pandora Williams and it's spelled p A N d h O r A Pandora Williams sued him over a training session she had attended the previous year. She claimed that during a training he had started ranting about how all gay people should be put on an island and left to die of ades. After training, she was like, what the fuck?

Speaker 6

Man?

Speaker 2

And I think her exact statement was like yoga's isn't yoga supposed to be about love? And he responded to her, we don't sell love here, bitch, And then he told an assistant, get that black bitch out of here. She's a cancer, so that's pretty bad. Williams was forced to leave and the eleven thousand dollars she had paid for training almost was not refunded. So that's awesome.

Speaker 4

Pretty my jaws on the floor.

Speaker 2

He's a real piece of shit, So you'll get in this documentary there will be moments where he's like he's making jokes about people. He'll like give him little nicknames and stuff, and it's a little bit insulting, but like in a way that like people do with their friends, and you can see in the reactions of other people they respond well to it. And then other times, and there's again documentation of this, he'll he'll be incredibly abusive.

And I think part of what makes the abuse both more baffling and kind of it takes people maybe sometimes longer to figure out what's happening, is that, well, sometimes he does this in a way that's not abusive. Sometimes it's kind of playful and like fun, and then he'll turn and it'll say it's very suddenly not at all playful. And that's part of classic abuser shit. Yeah, very very

classic abuser shit. Right when she sued Bitcram's legal representative for the company, right, you know, because he's got a corporate entity, was Mickey Jaffa Boden. She had started recently and found the company to be a mess. There was what she'd called a total commingling of personal and corporate assets.

Bickram would regularly do rich asshole shit like refuse to pay his hotel bills in one case to the tune of one point eight, which is like, you know, we can talk about like the things that are not financially appropriate he did, But I don't really care about that when we're talking about like a serial rapist, like the fact that his finances weren't in order, It's not my primary concern. So Jaffa Boden kind of gets hired to do this job. He gets her like a green card

or whatever. She's because she's an Indian woman. So she comes over the United States, and again she's in a very vulnerable position because she is reliant upon this this state of employment in order to stay in the country. So she finds this kind of mess and she's working on fixing it, and these allegations that woman Pandora Williams sues him, and she's kind of as she's trying to work through the financial problems within the company, kind of

shaken by this. And I'm going to quote again from Vanity Fair here and this is them talking to Jaffa Boden. I realized that if half of this was true, we were facing a very serious situation. Jeffa Boden tells me now. She conducted internal investigations and challenged Chowdery on his behavior. She found him unremorseful. He would pick on someone in the crowd. If someone got up to go to the toilet, he would say, where are you going to change your tampon?

He uses profanities, he's anti Semitic, he's homophobic. He'll say things like blacks don't get my yoga. And once he starts on his ti rate of profanity, he doesn't stop. Once he's picked on you, then you've had it for the entire class. Why did no one stand up to him? There's very little you can do. He's up there on a podium, he's miked up, and it's really hot. Many trainees feared losing the thousands of dollars they had already spent on their fees. Their livelihood depends on putting up

with it. The problem was that Bickram had set things up in such a way that without his continued patronage, you can't teach anywhere else. Some of his victims would come back to his training and just try to take precautions. Eventually, Bickram started sexually harassing Jaffa Boden. She quit in part because he'd also asked her to shut up other witnesses. And then she got together with one of the lawyers who'd been representing Bickram's other victims. She sued him, and

the lawsuit ends. To make a very long legal story short, the lawsuit ends with her in legal control of Bickram, the yoga entity, which is now generally brand Yeah. Yeah, she's and he has. He is not It's not like he's not like in jail or anything like. He has not been charged criminally, but he has lost a number of legal cases. He owes a shitload of money to a bunch of different people. So he's yeah, he's still alive.

He just fled the country, like he's been. He's violated a number of court orders to be deposed basically in order to avoid being like held legally to account for the things he's doing. He just like bounced, He like left the United States.

Speaker 6

Uh.

Speaker 2

He spends a lot of his time in India. He does a lot of training still in Mexico. He is still doing teaching sessions and young yoga instructors still like pay huge amounts of money for him to teach them. Uh, he did like a tour of India after he left the United States. So like it's one of those things where his reputation is fucked for sure.

Speaker 4

That blows my mind.

Speaker 2

And he lost control of Bickram, like the corporate entity. But like, you know, he's not over. He's not like in jail. He's not all of his money's not gone. You know, he has like a divorce with his wife, but it's so that she can protect their assets and stuff. Like, it's not I don't know, it's not the worst story we've had in terms of you know, a bad guy like not getting what they deserve, but it's not the best.

So it's not great. Yeah that's the story that I mean, it's yeah, it's not nothing like that.

Speaker 1

He doesn't have control of that company. You know, it's not nothing. It's fine, but it does make me think, you know, everyone's like just in general the age we live.

Speaker 4

In, and maybe I guess it's just always true.

Speaker 1

But like he can't get canceled you're gonna have other opportunities. You'll just go find the people that are like, yeah, fuck people that are two PC or whatever.

Speaker 4

Fuck women, I hate those people.

Speaker 1

Whatever it is, like, that's disappointing, but he legally lost that thing.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's I'm not gonna say it's the best case scenario, but it is consequences, and that is better than you and a lot of it's it's better than a lot of these stories.

Speaker 4

And so I don't know, and I was surprised by that.

Speaker 2

So yeah, yeah, there's that's something, Katie. You want to plug any pluggables?

Speaker 4

Oh boy, I do, I do.

Speaker 5

Uh.

Speaker 1

I've got a show called some More News with Cody Johnston. We have a whole YouTube channel with lots of long, funny videos. I mean I think they're funny, informative, and a podcast called even more News. And we've also take the audio from the YouTube channel and it's a podcast.

Speaker 4

Lots of options. But yeah, that's that's me.

Speaker 2

Well, I am also me. I have a book. It's called After the Revolution. You can buy it wherever books are bought. Uh. You should also check out other Cool Zone podcasts like Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff, which is the opposite of the show, and we'll do a nice job of making you feel less shitty after hearing stories like this shit.

Speaker 3

Katie's been a guest, she was wonderful.

Speaker 4

I have I love that show.

Speaker 2

It's a great show, very fun, uh not depressing. So check that shit out. It's yeah, it's like a c just like hot yoga for the soul. Oh yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1

I'm thinking i might crank my heat up to one ten pop. Okay, yoga class, I'm not going to do that.

Speaker 4

Don't do that.

Speaker 6

And on that note, peace out, motherfuckers.

Speaker 2

Yeah, motherfuckers.

Speaker 3

Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. More from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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