Part Two: The Andrew Tate Story

And I want to start this episode by getting a shout out to a friend of the pod, former mayor of the City of Portland, Sam Adams. Now y'all may not know Sam. I think he was briefly on the show Portlandia, but he was fired from being the mayor because he had a set true relationship with a teenage staffer. Um. And then got rehired by current Mayor of Portland, Ted Wheeler, who's a giant piece of ship, to be the mayor's

body man basically um. And then this week Sam announced that he was retiring because he had an iron deficiency. And then Ted Wheeler told everyone though he's retiring it because he wouldn't stop threatening and bullying women in the office. Both of you guys suck and it's very funny that's happened. Um. Also, I gotta say shout out to Sam Adams honestly, going from sexually harassing teenager too being a bully to adult women. That's a step forward. Um. Okay, disagree, Sophie, You're fine.

I don't know. One of the two things isn't a sex crime. So that's a real, real person growth for a former mayor of Portland's Sam Adams. Um. Anyway, Ted Wheeler, what the fun is? Great great hiring. Look, honestly, fox Sam Adams, he's a piece of ship. But incredible hiring decision from Ted Wheeler. Yeah, let's get the guy in here who had sex with a seventeen year old stafford. Let's let's get him back in city hall. We really

need his insights. Um, great, great work. It really shocked about you know how how well liked he is in the City of Portland. Yeah he I mean he's not. But you can let him know how you feel about his decision to hire and then fire Sam Adams at at Ted Wheeler on Twitter when he got the tear gas thrown on him. I do remember that. So I started talking about Ted Wheeler and sad Sam Adams because

they're both toxic men. And today we are finally getting into the direct personal story of one of the most toxic men of all time, Emery Andrew Tate the third. That's quite a name. That's quite a name. Um. Now, Emrie Andrew tap the third was born in Washington, d C. On December one, nineteen eight six. Now that fancy name might lead you to think that he came from some like British ash British British ass uh noble family or some ship that sounds like a duke's name to me, um,

but very formal. It sounds like he is not um. Now, most of the texture that we get on his childhood comes from Andrew himself, which is not ideal because he is a liar um. But there's just not a lot of other Again, I haven't found no one's done like a critical biography. There's not like a big, long New Yorker piece that really delves into his back story. So I kind of had to do that myself to the

best extent that I could do. Now I did find one, and this is Honestly, the only texture you get on his childhood that I have come across is from an article he wrote for a web site for kickboxing that sells kickboxing gear um and the title of it is the Life of Andrew King Kobra Tate. So again, this is not a credible source. But the way in which he writes about his childhood and what he wants you to believe about it does tell you a lot about the man. So we're still going to be covering it.

But do not take this this literal truth that that should be obvious. Here's how he talks about his birth. I was born in Washington, d C. At Walter Reed Army Hospital early one morning, December one. The doctor wanted to award me a perfect ten on the birth scale, but settled on nine point five already already. That's the saddest thing anyone has ever bragged. That's so pathetic, absolutely heartbreaking. Oh my god, that's on somebody's fucking like dating profile

for sure, two weeks overdue. But I was a nose. I was nose breathing already as the doctor held me upside down by my heels, and my right fist was in side of my mouth as I suckled. The doctor pinched my thigh to get a response, and I growled, knitting my brow and trying to crane my head up to see who had attacked me. The doctor paled, shocked at my defensive powers. I did not cry. Oh my god,

I hate this. That's so funny though, bragging about how tough you were is a baby as a baby, like unbelievable. And I was re reading what you what you just said, and it's I'm gonna tell you all right now, because again, everything I found just kind of glosses over his his childhood, because we don't have a lot of like like detailed, like somebody hasn't gone through, like interviewed a shipload of people that he knew was a little kid. And it right,

that hasn't happened yet. I'm sure it will um And I was thinking, we're just gonna have to brush over his childhood. And then I found this article he wrote about himself on a kickboxing website and it it made my week. It made my week. It's so funny about your own birth, like you did fucking anything. So if you're curious about Andrew's parentage, his mother Eileen h is indeed English's ship um, and she's a white lady. She worked as a catering assistant. His father is Emrie Tate Junr.

Um and Emory what was Emory Tate Junior? Emory Tate Jr. Was a Black American man and a Chicago chess prodigy. Actually, up until a year or two ago, Emory Tate was much more famous than Andrew Tate. Um. We actually had in in our work chat. Mia was shocked to learn that Andrew Tate was Emrie Tate's son. Um. I had not heard of this guy. But I don't care for chess, um or for yeah chess. Yeah. The Washington Post describes Emory Tate Jr. As a trailblazer for black chess players.

He was like one of the first. I don't know, he may have been like the first, like soup, we're famous, really well known, like black professional chess players. Um. Again, I don't understand chess. I don't understand why you would play a war game that doesn't include orcs. But a lot of people who love chess say that he was

one of the most fun players to watch. I did read a lot of like writing, like fans and like read it and stuff talking about Emory Tate, and one thing they also to agree on is he was just super entertaining. Twitch you why does when you type in Emery Tate into Google, why does the first suggested thing come up as CIA? What I typed Emory Tate into Google and the first thing that auto fills is c I A m hmm, it was Andrew says that he was in the c I that was happening. Yeah, he was.

So he was in the Air Force as a sergeant and he served as a linguished linguist. Um. There's not actually hard evidence that he was in the CIA that I have seen, Like this is based on again, Andrew is kind of when we're about to get into this, he's really plumping his dad's reputation to make him into like not just a chess guy, but a bad as may or may not somebody. I have not seen any

independent confirmation that he worked in the CIA. Maybe he did a lot of guys in that period who like did some sort of like weird work where they would have just been listed as a State department employee. So it's not impossible, but I have not come across confirmation that he was in the CIA um so the Washington Post and most sources who write about Andrew's dad will call him a grand master at chess. This is not entirely true he was. I mean, this is not true.

He was an international master, which is a lesser rank. He never quite made it to grand master. I found again chess discussions online by nerds about chess who will say that he didn't make it to grand master um mainly because he wasn't able. He wasn't willing to do like certain things that you have to do to do that. But he was. He had a really good record. He regularly beat grandmasters. Some people say he was as good

at Bobby Fisher. Again, I have no way to evaluate any of this, taking a big anti chest chess approach here again, there's no there's no battle tanks and chess. There's no Titans with chainsaw hands. The ultimate game of strategy is still Warhammer forty thousand. I think we can all agree on that. Yes, of course it's been true for generations. Um. But anyway, Emory Tate great at chess, um at chess his story and wrote a book about him, which gives us some idea as to where Andrew Tape

got his sense of style and personal branding. The title was triple exclam with three exclamation points. The Life and Games of Emory Tate Chess Warrior Um, which is kind of fun um. I think he literally died at the table in two thousand fifteen playing a game of chess like this man, This motherfucker loved jess Um. He wears a white fedora with a gold band on the cover, which also gives you a little bit of insight into

where Andrew Tate gets some of his taste in style. Um. And Andrew idolizes his father, and he does it particularly. I'm not going to pretend to know the man's emotional state, but in his public writing he particularly celebrates his dad. And that kickboxing website article, Andrew Tate noted this about the male side of his family background. My grandfather, Emrie A. Tate Esquire, fought in World War Two before becoming a lawyer in Chicago, doing racially charged times as a black man.

That shaped his worldview, and he was very strict, very hard. Indeed, as a boy, he pushed a plow with mule through the hard clay dirt of Georgia, forced to work on the farm. At age twelve, he pushed a plow that only grown men normally handled. Then he ran away, never to return to the farm. He did some bare knuckled fist bites as a young man, and distinguish himself hand to hand during the war years. And again I'm sure

parts of that are true. Everything about his dad and his grandpa always veeers into how good a word hand to hand combat, and there is no evidence of this. Um. Like the stuff about working on a farm, Yeah, that's that seems plausible. The stuff about how we fought the Nazis hand to hand. I don't know, maybe, but that actually happened often. That just gives me, like, my dad can beat up your dad vibes like it sounds like something like a kid would say about his own birth.

I mean, it's like, you don't have to lie about him fist fighting Nazis. It's okay if he just shot them. A lot of dudes did and that was rat Like, he doesn't have to be great at punching just because you grew up to punch people for a living. That's kind of a weird thing to focus on Andrew, Um, But he loves talking about how good. His dad and

Grandpa were at fighting. Um quote. His son, my dad, Emrie A. Tate Jr. Was a young athlete, learning wrestling in school and developing the early forms of take shinkai strikes as a youth, which I guess is his own martial arts thing. His job in the Middle Terry for eleven years took him on many adventures, and little is known for sure except that my dad never loses. He is my role modeling when he in many ways, even

as I write poetry like he does. So. I mean also, I think his dad would have been in the military. Let me let me double check here, Uh yeah, during Vietnam, which would mean that he did, in fact lose. Um So sorry Andrew, But um I I don't want to be mean to Emery take because well this is a little bit his fault. Um So. Yeah. The closest thing that Andrew has written or said that comes close to being emotionally impactful at all is when he writes about

his father. I will give him that he writes with like some amount of actual um sincerity about his feelings towards his dad, And I'm gonna give you an example of that now. I never learned to cry for attention. I only used grunts to indicate hunger or discomfort, but mostly I was silent. I had a large new crib, but most every night I spent a sleep on my dad's chest. He would place me there and sleep still, never moving in the night, and our heartbeats were and

are as one. I just could like, yeah, just too angry to now. Bits like this do contrast with passages where Andrew will relate stories about his dad that sound kind of abusive. Quote. I learned to defend myself soon after I could walk, long before my first punch into a pillow. I learned to balance, how to step backward after being pushed gently in the chest. Dad made a game of it, a game which ended with a savage shove across the living room, sending me into a dramatic

back pedal. I stopped myself with my head one inch from cracking into the far wall. That was the final test. Kind of sounds like your dad was just shoving you because he was pissed, Andrew. That kind of sounds not great. Do you need to talk about this, man? Yeah? No talking, just yeah, just I mean, look, if I was going to raise a child, I will I'd be lying if I said that the shoving method didn't hold some appeal, because I do a lot of other things by shoving.

It's how I moved my furniture, it's how I record podcasts. I'm shoving a walking desk around the room right now. We actually Daniel spends like thirteen hours a week editing that out before we can even get the audio off off to Chris, um, that's most of his job. It's it's really um, it's a good part of our work. And remind me to tell you about the time when Robert got a foot massager and he refused to not use it while recording, and it would go directly into

the mic and like, there's no there's no hazard. Pay that's enough, truly, don't take it. I'm sorry. And that was my fault for bringing it up. That was your fault for bringing it up. But more importantly not my fault, because nothing is speaking of toxic masculinity. Let's get back to Andrew Tates cool So. Andrew was raised initially in the DC area and then Indiana, uh and he seemed to want to follow in his father's footsteps. He started

playing chess at age three. He started competing at five, and he eventually competed in adult tournaments while still a child. And this is where we get the very first news article on Andrew Tate, who at that point was referred to as e Marie A. Tate. It is a local news piece, and this is the first like objective ish piece of journalism that like, it's not just like him writing about his background. Um. And it's really the only insight we get into his childhood that doesn't come directly

from a Tate. UM. It's again a local news piece. The news in his town, which is like South Bend, was talking about the release there was a movie coming out about Bobby Fisher, who I guess was good at chess, UM, and so they were writing about that, and they wanted a human interest piece, so they talked about young Andrew Tate, who was six when they wrote this article. UM. He had started a chess club in South Bend with some other kids, and he had taught them chess because he

wanted people to play against. It includes the article a couple of quotes that are interesting. Every kid wanted wants to be like his dad, the elder Tate said, but father had recently limited sons playing time encouraging other activities. I don't think that a kid his age should spend so much time playing chess. As a parent, I'd like to see him become a top level player, but I realized there's so much more to life than just chess. He learned how to swim this summer, and he plays

with his friends and stuff like that. Andrew, however, says he plays because he's bored all the time. Most of the time, I am bored, and that's the only thing I want to do most So Yeah, interesting, there's some insight into the actual kid there. Um, that is a response I understand from a kid like I am bored all the time. This is the only thing that I like.

It Also, you know, gives you a little bit of a look into like there's For whatever reason, one of the things I take with him this article is that Emory Tit didn't want his son to follow him as a chess guy. It might have been some insecurity about not wanting his kid to be better than him, or it may have just been understandably, like, you know, I never made a lot of money playing chess. I want you to do something else with your life. I don't want you to like be locked into this thing. I

don't know. There's some interesting questions that answers or asks.

The author of this article notes that Andrew had just competed in his first adult chess tournament where he had and again Andrews later on, when he starts putting out propaganda trying to make him do a badass will point out that, like at age six, he was playing in adult chess tournaments, he did lose three out of five games, um, and his dad eventually had to pull him out of the tournament because, quote, he got very upset because he

thought he was failing. So Emory withdrew his son from the game to quote save him from crying in front of all those people. And uh, we're not keyed into what precisely happened there. Whoa, whoa. I thought he didn't cry. Why are we worried about that? It sure seems like his dad said he did. Yeah. Fact and again, I'm

gonna guess one of two things happened there. Either Andrew was just throwing a fit because he was losing, and his dad was like, well, you can't be at a chess tournament if you're gonna throw a fit when you lose. Or Andrew was doing okay and wanted to keep playing, and his dad was angry that he was losing and didn't want him to keep like risk losing again. Um. Even though three to two is not a bad record for a six year old playing six either way, we

don't know which of those is the case. Either possibility is interesting to me, UM. Andrew's parents had another boy, Tristan, two years after Andrew was born, and the two brothers have been inseparable their whole lives. They played chess together, but Tristan never competed. Uh. They would later kickbox together, but Tristan never competed. He's like always is there, But he also doesn't seem to get to live a full life because he exists purely in his brother's shadow, as

like an agent of his greatness. It's kind of a weird relationship for Tristan, UM, but I don't think he's self aware enough to understand that it's weird. One photo in the news are in that news article shows six year old Andrew focused in the picture frame, face taking up a third of the frame, playing chess. Well, just Tristan's hand is visible in the right third, and as the brothers grew up, Andrew would consistently stay in focus will Tristan would always just sort of be off to

the side. Is that and that's true to this day, right to this day, I have I don't have it in the script we could play, there's a very funny video of his brother like telling him to go out to like film their cars for this video they're doing about how nice their life is. And then when his brother goes out, Andrew cuts the feed just to be like, ha ha, fuck you, this is my show. I don't have to like let you do anything if I don't

want to. And it's like weirdly abusive because they're both men who were in their thirties, Like Tristan, you don't have to take that. Like. Um, things got harder for them after South Bend Um because they their mom and dad. It's not a good marriage and they divorce. Um. I have found very little to tail about why that divorce happened. We can infer though, that it was an extremely painful time for Andrew, and this is all he's willing to write about it. Dad was working minimum wage jobs over

time since his military career had been ended. Both mom and Dad worked so that we could survive. Things became so hard that we decided to go to England and try a life there only minus dad. And uh, he's not willing to write like, you know, the marriage didn't work out or and again we don't know why. I'm gonna avoid like theorizing what might have happened there, but this is clearly he idolizes his dad and he's taken away from him forever basically, um, and obviously mom might

have had a perfectly good reason for doing that. I'm not trying to be critical. We just actually don't really know. Um, but this is definitely like the fact that he's not willing to even acknowledge the basics of what happened kind of suggests this leaves a pretty profound impact on young Andrew. So by age eleven, he was, in his words, man of the house, looking after his younger brother and now sister. The town in England they live in was called Luton,

and it is still. I think it's usually pronounced by English people Luton, but you know, you know how they are. I didn't think we would get an accent this episode, but I'm glad we did. Worm from Luton. That's how they sound. Um, you know how when I do my when I do my accent, should I do my Boston accent to get him back on board? Your Boston accents really joy even from Boston and Oi, Lloyd Caffey and Shielda. Yeah,

an Australian person underwater being strangled. Just just Western Australia, Sophie. Anyways, Robert, it's time for an ad break. It is time for an ad break. So good Denkin Donuts and have you a caffie bost It's so bad, it's pretty good. It's so bad, it's impressive, Like thank you. I feel like that takes a lot of skill and control to be that bad again. I'll take any kind of praise. I don't care. Um, bad attention, good attention, it's all the

same to me. Welcome to our podcast about toxic masculinity. Uh, and we're back. So Luton is um it's not an easy place to grow up. It is in fact close to, if not the very hardest place to grow up in England. Um. It is one of the poorest places in the country. It has been repeatedly voted the worst place to live in England. UM. I actually found a poll from like seven days before I watched the script from the from Bedfordshire Live that voted the worst place to live in England.

It is a tough town, um. Andrew and his family have basically no money. They live in public housing and they are just barely getting by. We know this for certain, Like this is a confirmed fact about his upbringing. Now Andrew again definitely acknowledges that they were poor. This is actually an important part of his own self mythology. Um. But he also makes some claims that we do not know for sure or true. He claims he got a job as soon as I was old enough, although he

does not say when that was. Um quote, as soon as I was old enough, I got a job moving eighty pound boxes of frozen fish into the market at five am. Then a full day of school. We cans found me at the market stall, where it perfected my knife skills, flawlessly fileting fish at blinding speeds. After some time, I never cut my hands at all, not even a nick. I learned to play drums and yeah, that's that's interesting. Um. I'm sure some again, I'm sure pieces of all of

this are true. I don't know about his knife skills or the blinding speed. But I'm sure pieces of this are true. UM. Now, Tristan or Andrew interestingly says that the only one of them who got into a real world fight when they were kids was his brother Tristan. Some kid was bullying him and he beat him up. UM. I don't know if that story is true or not, but it is worth noting that Andrew claims in this article,

I have never struck a person in anger. Now we know that's not true because he has beaten at least what like Yeah, we know that's not true. UM. We will talk about that later, but this is the claim that he is making in this thing that he writes in UM. When he was a young adult, he was introduced to a kickboxing trainer and he started training, as

did his brothers soon after. By two thousand and eight, he was the seventh highest ranked heavyweight kickboxer in Brita, and a year later he won his first championship and became the number one ranked kickboxer in Europe for his division. Two weeks two years later, in two US and twelve, he was the second best heavyweight kickboxer on the planet. That sounds very impressive. Right, Yeah, yeah, I mean second best kickboxer on the planet. That means you can kick

to death anybody but one guy. Um, yeah, that is not what that actually means. So I'm gonna be honest. All of the articles about it, we'll just say he was the second best had light heavyweight. Sometimes I'll just say the second bex kickboxer on the planet. Um. They'll talk about his championships and like, list the numbers. I was the first draft of this, actually, I just wrote that and then moved on and was like, yeah, he's really good at kickboxing. Um, lots of bad people are

really good at something. I assumed he was, as like, I figured that that was true. I looked at his Wikipedia page, which says he has like seventy nine wins and nine losses and lists his championships, and he did

win a bunch of what are called world championships. However, that's not how box thing works, because I also looked up a bunch of discussions of boxing fans analyzing his actual performance, and one thing they'll point out is that, well, there's not just one guy who's the best in kickboxing. Kickboxing is actually an incredibly fragmented sport. And there are a bunch of different and I don't know if they

call him leagues or whatever. There's a bunch of different like types of kickboxing championships, and some are more impressive than others. Right, Some are people who are really good at kickboxing, some are people who are more amateur, and Andrew kind of stayed doing the more amateur stuff, and he was really good at beating amateur kickboxers. One of the critiques people will note who are into kickboxing is that the league that he became world heavy or light

heavyweight champion in only covers Europe. So you guys might notice there's a couple of places that are the world that aren't Europe that I assume, I assume there's some kickboxers in those places, at least one of yeah, at least a couple. Um. The other they'll point out is that of all of these fights that he had and he claims like seventy nine wins, they can only verify

like forty something fights. Because and this is that may not mean that he's lying at it's all of the ways that the ship gets reported are weird, right, and there's so many different weird leagues and ship he might be lying about the total number of wins and games he was in, but of the things that we can verify only this is something kickboxing fans will point out.

Only five of his fights are against guys with Wikipedia pages, and that based sounds but but it means like guys who are notable enough that they have called like are good enough at kickboxing. So he lost fights were against like nobodies or you know something. Of the notable five fights he was in, he lost three of them. Um. The allegation kickboxing fans will make is that he mostly

fought amateurs to pad his record. Now, everyone agrees he's still that's still pretty good at kickboxing, but he is not the second He was never the second best on the planet Earth at kickbox in. Um, that's just simply not the case. Um, And I think it's it's fair to say, yeah, he's pretty good at kickboxing, he was never as good as he claimed. And this is a part of the self mythologizing that he engages in kind of vastly exaggerating his competency at kicking people a bunch

with his feet. Um. So yeah, it's also worth noting that like the level Tap actually was at did not pay terribly well. The per fight amount is impressive. He can make between fifty and a hundred thousand dollars per fight that he was in, but he was having like one or two fights per year, um, which is not terrible income. But you you're paying for a coach, you're paying for Jim access, you're paying for the medical care that comes from this, and he's going to have several

serious injuries. So he's not living well off of this salary.

And in fact, he and his brother are living in a cheap apartment um I think in Bedfordshire and eating as cheaply as they possibly can in order to afford to keep being in kickboxing, because it's like, that's kind of what it is when you're competing at this kind of awkward level that he's at um And Tate relates aspects of this himself in a video from and I'm gonna play this so everyone can get a look and listen to the guy before we can go any further.

This is from his video on Rumble. This is his like you like Rumble, his right wing YouTube, and his his channel is called Tate Speech as in hate speech. But you guys get it right. I don't need here. It is first the first first clip world level athletes with no money. We invented a dish that was so bland. We called it Flavor because it was the only way you could add flavor to the dish. So I had the name flavor, but it was extremely bland, and it

was white rice frozen piece. MR Cheap kidney beans. Kidney beans have more protein per d grahams than minced did you know that? I found out when I was broke, walking the aisles of the grocery store trying to find the cheapest protein money can buy. I couldn't bring myself to be a vegetarian, so I'd add a little bit mate minced beef, and if I was really rich, I'd have hoole sauce. And I actually suspect he's probably not lying too much there. That seems like a reasonable story.

And I know some people who are professional athletes at that similar awkward level where you're like a pro but you're not rich, who are like, yeah, you do whatever it takes to like stay fueled, or that means cooking giant pots of like not delicious things just to stay anyway, that that that seems broadly speaking like, he's probably not lying entirely about that. Now he is lying about he and his brother being world class athletes. You might say he was. That's going to be up to what you

define that as. But Tristan is not competing in kickboxing. He is working as like a coach kind of um. Although people will criticize in ways that are too weirdly nuanced and involved knowledge of kickboxing. So we're just gonna move on now. The height of his career as a guy who kicks people for money comes in like two thousand twelve, two thirteen. Um, he two thirteen and thinks his last big championship, and not long after that he decides to leave professional sports as a full time thing. Um.

Injuries play a major role in this take. Does not like talking about vulnerability, but he was worse at taking hits than he likes to pretend. Um. He suffered detached retina's in several fights and had to have surgery for his eyes, so he would like, he's I mean again and again. That's the I'm pointing this out because he will never admit it. Like, if you're a professional kickboxer,

at some point, you're going to get hurt. Enough that you can't keep doing kickboxing, like we all saw like Mohammed Ali go from you know, Mohammed al Lee to you know a guy who has severe injuries as a result of being a boxer. All this stuff is bad for you, like you either quit at a certain point or it destroys your body and mind the same way

that like football or whatever does. I mean, we all just got a reminder of that a couple of weeks ago with um oh, the guy who had a heart attack on the Yeah, this is all pretty like normal sports stuff, right like you you are when you're watching guys do these kind of combat sports. You are watching people like mortgage their bodies in the hope of getting rich, and take kind of had to accept at a certain point, my body is going to give out before I get

rich doing this. Um. So you know that's the thing that he recognizes, and he decides I need to let most professional athletes do. I need to find something else I can do that's easier on my body that I can support myself with. You know, some people open car dealerships. Some people decide to you know, sell ads for different things and and be be pitchman. Um. Some people go into professional baseball. Um, Tristan decided to become a webcam

sex pimp. UM. So that's that's an interesting call. I do think history would have been different and fascinating ways that that's the choice Michael Jordan had made. Um, Sophie, don't give you that look. I m hm anyway, what I'm just saying that look? You deserved it. I I usually do so. For three years, they run a rapidly expanding business finding women to act as cam operators. Now,

this is not an inherently dishonest business. I guess if you are, you know, building a studio and building like a platform by which you can, you know, bring these these cam workers attention and they understand their contracts and like it's a reasonably fair split. I don't have an ethical issue with building a company that allows sex workers to do cam work, right, that's that's fine, um. But the business that take interest in operated was not fine.

It was fundamentally pretty toxic. The Grunt Brothers didn't have a environment alright cool. Yeah, I'm gonna quote now from an article in The Mirror, which is not an ideal source, but it's who entered them about this. And I don't know why they would lie about something this shady and gross, because it makes them seem like sex criminals. Quote. Some of their customers fall for the belief that they can have a real relationship with the women they see on screen.

But Tristan brazenly told the Sunday Mirror it's all a big scam, and bragg that he doesn't feel any guilt because no one cares and it's their problem, not mine. The more punter's handover, the more models earn. Some women will claim to have crippling university debt, a family member in need of private healthcare, or a dream of moving to the UK, sometimes even telling men they want to meet them. Whatever the excuses, it is a lie, Tristan said,

so he tells it. He tells a story in this article about this guy who wanted to give a cam operator twenty dollars his life savings, and Tristan's like, and I tried. I talked him out of it. I told him, you know, he shouldn't do that. She was actually making good money. And then he came back a couple of months later and fell in love with another And this time I was like, yeah, man, we'll take your money,

which definitely a lie. Tristan and Andrew Tate have never turned down twenty grand that a desperate man offered them for lies. But there's no way they're trying to absolutely bread and butter. Yeah. Um, I am going to continue that quote from the Mirror. But first, you know what I am going to continue first is capitalism. I am. I am keeping this nightmare engine alive on my own by advertising for products on this podcast. So on your own. That's it. That's I am. I am the lynchpin holding

the global economy together. Look after Facebook fell apart, it's just me, baby, Oh my god, name another company, Sophie, It's just this podcast. Just run the ads. He's out of control. Uh, we are back. So um, I'm going to continue that quote from the from the Sunday Mirror of Tristan Tate being interviewed. He believes he is beyond the reach of the authorities because of two lines in the terms and conditions. He said, One is broadcasting is

for entertainment purposes only. That means if a model says she has a sick dog or a sick grandma, it doesn't have to be true. The next is that all cash given the models is a voluntary sign of gratitude for their time broadcasting. Now I'm not a lawyer. That kind of sounds like the tick and their money. It does sound like you're taking their money. That said, he may be in the right there that the mirror did a journalistic thing and they reached out to a lawyer

to be like, is this true? And the lawyer said maybe. But also generally UK laws say that you can't defraud people and take their money on fraudulent terms. But also the laws haven't kept pace with technology. There's a good chance he was in a legal gray area. They did not get charged, so probably is fair to say they were in enough of a legal gray area that they were reasonably safe. And to be like, perfectly honest, I suspect they could have done this indefinitely if Andrew Tate

hadn't been a sex criminal. Um, which is which is what we're getting to here. Um. So, Andrew Tate later wrote this on his personal website slash Shady Business, teaching men to run their own webcam porn studios. This is a thing he does later. Um, but this is how he talks about his webcam business and how he makes it work. How did I become rich webcam? I've been

running a webcam studio for nearly a game. I've had over seventy five girls work for me, and my business model is different than nine percent of webcam studio owners. Over fifty of my employees were actually my girlfriend at the time, and if all my girlfriends, none were in the adult industry entertainment industry before they met me. My job was getting women to fall in love with me. Literally,

that was my job. My job was to meet a girl, go on a few dates, sleep with her, test if she's quality, get her to fall in love with me to where she'd do anything I'd say, and then get her on webcam so we could become rich together. Whether you agree or disagree with what I did with their loyalties, submission and love for me doesn't matter. You cannot reject the results, and the results are simple. My girlfriends would do more for me than nine percent of men's wives

would do for them. So what does that's really gross? And like voluntarily listed on his own site, It's just yeah, he bragged about this. Now this is potentially him describing sex trafficking right especially, that's what if you're if the women are not getting Again, there's not like a law that says you can't have someone fall in love with you and then contract with them to do sex work. Right,

that's not a thing that there's a law against. However, if they are not getting paid for it, and if they are not being allowed freedom of movement, well then what happens is that you have like entrapped them and you are sex trafficking them. Right. This is what's called law enforcement calls this the lover boy method, right, where you get someone to fall in love with you. And also this is this goes on. This is a very

old tactic in like shall we say pimping. Um, We're like, yeah, you make a woman feel like or a person be in love and dependent on you, and then you kind of emotionally abuse them into doing sex work. This is a thing that happens that is like a recognized part of a criminal enterprise. UM. Now, obviously, getting charges based on those words on his website is going to be

hard to do. UM. But just kind of the stuff that he had published for a while was enough that people at the time should have known that he was up to a what was a likely illegal business. Now, if you came across articles about Tight twenty two and they went to any to tail about his webcam career. The most you were likely to learn was what the Mirror wrote here. After three years they moved to Romania, saying the UK had gone downhill. They have women on

a number of CD sites. Operators take at cut and the rest goes to the studio. So that's that's what they claimed for years had happened, like you know, we did it in the UK and then the UK got woke and so we switched to Romania. That is not what actually happened. So they started running this can business in two thousand twelve, three years after two thousand twelve

and they moved to Romania. It's two fifteen now. Just a few days ago after his arrest, a story dropped made it clear why they actually left the UK, and it had nothing to do with wokeness to the country going downhill. Andrew Tate was arrested on suspicion of sexual

assault and physical abuse in two thousand and fifteen. Vice broke the story quote two women told Vice World News they were violently abused, one raped, the other repeatedly strangled by Andrew Tate and that UK police in the Crown Prosecution Service mishandled their case, leaving him free to rise to global fame on the back of his unchecked misogyny.

Police took four years to pass their investigation to the Crown Prosecution Service, whose job involves assessing whether there is a realistic prospect of conviction, at which point the CPS declined to prosecute. So that's the reality of why they had to leave the UK. Fucking vile, disgusting human beings, and it it makes the the timeline makes a lot more sense when you know that, when he's like, yeah, we had to bounce because you know, things just got

to woke for us in Romania. And he would also he later made the claim that, like, I had to leave Romania because in the UK a man can get accused of rape for anything, right, and uh, you know Romania it's much harder to get accused of rape. And so I moved to Romanian not because I'm a rapist, but because I like freedom. No, man, you were you were accused of rape by multiple women um and then investigated, and you decided to leave because you didn't know if the UK was going to come for your ass at

some point. Um. And the story is actually a bit more fucked up than that, because back in two thousand fourteen, a woman who Vice refers to as Amelia filed a police report alleging sexual and physical abuse by Tate. She claims that she and Tate met in two thousand nine. They were friendly for years until two thousand thirteen, which is when Tate was transitioning away from kickboxing to webcam pimping.

The two decided to go out on a series of dates at the end of that year, and after several weeks, they were in her room when Andrew forced himself on her. Now she describes him stopping like she tells him to stop when he starts like trying to go to have sex, and um, she tells him that she doesn't want to have sex, and he tells her she She says that he like sits quietly for a moment, and then she asked him what's going on, and he says, I'm debating

whether I should rape you or not. What the oh boy, howdy, it's um, it's bad. Within an instant, he changed who he was. He wasn't the same Andrew that I knew. That was funny that would make me laugh. It was like his eyes went and I didn't have a clue who that person was. Terrifying, disgusting. Oh that's that's horrible. I'm so sorry that happened her. Yeah, and it's so. Here's one of the things about this is she goes to the cops. He rapes her, and it takes they

have after that point, she consents to sex. She says a couple of times over the next six months um,

which is not uncommon in situations like this. But eventually she goes to the police to make a complaint UM, and the police are like, do you want to do you want to proceed with charges, right, because that's an option that you have in this case, And she decides, obviously, I don't I hopefully I don't think I have to explain this to this audience, but like, there are a lot of horrible personal consequences that can come to charging

your rapist right to to pursuing the criminal charges, she decides, And there is, and this seems like a positive things. There's an option in the UK where you can just log a complaint and say this guy raped me without proceeding with criminal charges, which she decides she doesn't want to do at this point, and so that's what she does. UM. And then that this is again two, is when those two women who worked in his cam studio, UM push press charges against him and the police and this is

a positive step. It's about to get less positive. But the police find out, oh, there's a report locked against this guy two years earlier, and they reach out to Amelia and they're like, more women have come forward saying that this guy assaulted them. Do you want your charges? Do you want your allegations basically to be added to

theirs in this case that we're building, right, um? And she says yes, and she hands over her phone to the cops, which contained numerous audio notes because she had told Andrew and like texts and stuff like hey, you know like you rape me. That's why I don't want to know you anymore. And he had responded to her, and he had responded to her using voice notes where

he admitted to what he had done. UM. And yeah, I'm gonna play a couple of notes of Andrew Tate UM here for you, because before we hear him in his like fifteen year old boy influencer voice, we should hear how he talks to somebody like Amelia when he doesn't think it's going to be on the news? Am I a bad person? Because the more you didn't like it, the more I enjoyed it. I fucking loved how much you hated it turned me on. Why am I like that? Why? I am one of the most dangerous men on this planet.

Sometimes you forget exactly how lucky you were to get sucked by me. Would you rather me pin you down and make you do things you didn't like? Or would you rather fun you didn't like that? I was thinking, I can do whatever I want to. That's what it is. I'm the smartest person on this fucking planet. Are you seriously so offended? I strangled you a little bit. You didn't fucking pass out. Chill the funk out, Jesus Christ. I thought you were cool. What's wrong with you? Oh

my god? So that's not great. That's not great. That's so upsetting, that's so upsetting. Yeah, that's pretty bad. He's he's a pretty bad dude. And what's vile? Disgusting, despicable? This, Like again, normally self diagnosis is the thing we avoid on this but like, that's just very obvious textbook narcissism.

I am the smartest man in the world, you know, like he is, It's not hard to see what's going on with this guy, um, And I don't know his dad or like how that all went down, But there's there's there's this if you look at the way he talks about his dad and his grandpa, there's this need

to like associate himself with greatness. Um. And I don't know, like every everything that's going on here makes sense, but it's also so bleak, um And I I don't know that there's probably a better better writer and thinker than me.

My people to draw a more trenchant connection between the kind of stuff I was talking about about out how lack of connection to other men and two older men, and how not knowing what your places in society leads young men to feel disconnected and that that can be the root of of of some bad behavior, and the fact that Tate idolizes his dad and is separated from him and becomes so needful to kind of convince others of his greatness while using violence and threats against them.

I don't know that there's a connection there, um, but it's it's I think kind of worth thinking about. I guess in in in the same continuum. I don't know, this is still stuff like that. I'm kind of muddling through to UM. But it's it's not it's not surprising to me that this guy has this, um, this kind of obsession with his because that's what it's about, right. It's it's never about like that he wanted, you know, sex or whatever. It's about that. It's about power. It's

about power. He had this and it's about the fact that she didn't want to have sex with him. Is like an attempt from her to exercise agency, and no one else in the world gets to exercise agency, just Andrew Tate, right, Like that's the way this guy thinks about things. UM, I don't know. There's a lot going

on there worth worth pondering. UM, And I guess we will ponder it for a while while we wait for part three of this series, where we will talk about the fallout from these cases and the social media presence that tape builds. When again, nobody knows this at that I mean this, this this young woman knows it, and a couple of police officers know it. But um, as a spoiler, the police don't proceed with the charges. Um,

and in fact they it's really fucked up. Um. The police say that they believe her, or Amelia says, what she said to to Vice when they talked to her, is that the police told her that they believed her claims, but they couldn't go forward with the case because there was a shred of doubt about Tate's guilt. Um. Now there's a shred of doubt. And see it does seem like he admitted it, he being a sexual predator. What

are we? What are we really cops? There's some fucked up cop gas lighting here because they tell her like, look, going through the process of of pressing charges against a rapist is so traumatic to the woman that we don't do it unless there's no shred of doubt. We're trying to protect you from the ugly court, which is like cop gas lighting is on another level. Um. But that's I'm so sorry, Amelia, That's yeah, it's fucking Bleakum. This whole story is bleak. And after this point, Andrew and

Tristan moved to Romania. They move their sex trafficking webcam business to Romania, and we will pick up that story in part three, where it gets a lot bleaker in some ways, but also we get to make fun of Andrew tape videos, so you know something to look forward to. Take your wins where you can get them, kiddos, Um, what do we? Who are we? Who are we here? We're the bad boys and podcasting obviously. Uh well right, Robert, you're I think I think both shows are actually sold out.

But you will be at s F Sketch Beest this coming weekend and you'll be doing Behind the Bastard Show, and you will also be doing Francesca Fiorentini. Yeahi's the Bituation Room Show. Yeah, great? In episode out something why why? Yes, Robert, it is a week from when we are recording that. All right, well, we will finish recording the Andrew Tate episodes and then I will figure out what the funk I'm doing for this live show that apparently a bunch of you assholes have decided to show up at. God

damn you, thank you all for buying tickets. Before we close out, I want to thank again April Clark and Grace Freud of Girl God The Girl Got Podcast. Um, both great comedians. They have an upcoming show at JFO Vancouver on February. People can get tickets for that at Girl Gods Show dot com. They were on the early version of part of this, but I had an emergency and we had to bounce, And now we are recording this late at night because it is the only way that we can make this show work in a way

that is we are contractually obligated to. So thank you April and Grace, Thank you Ian and Sophy for being guests on my show last minute. And yeah, you're fucking welcome, Robert, thank you, Thank you. Everyone else can go to hell though. Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.