Part Two: Kellogg: The Great American Cum Doctor

to run. But yeah, you have like a exerciser's glow. M Yeah, I don't know if that's that's that's exactly what you're supposed to say. You have a colonizer's glow about you. Oh, thank I could go for some colonizing Miles. Just like, I'm just gonna throw some names out there. El Salvador, that seems like a place that hasn't been colonized. Well, yeah, spoil it. Well never mind, I'm like, I don't want to look it up and find out how we've talked about El Salvador in our in Our School of the

America's episode All the Death Squads, We're back there. Yeah, And then we're confused about MS thirteen. Huh, which started in the United States. It's all good. It's like, huh, it's so good ship. You know what else is good ship? Miles James Harvey, John Harvey Kellogg, which one was he? James, Jesus's James And they would say John Harvey Kitel. Yeah, I didn't know where you were going there. To be honest,

I wrote, I wrote a Harvey Kitel episode. But so he said, three hundred and thirty six pages was too long for a podcast script. Oh my god. So well, um, it was almost as long as the Will Wheat the script. She wonte won't let me read. That's not accurate. You can read that. I ever told you you can't. Sorry, legal told us I can't do the Will Wheaton script because there's no evidence that he was the son of Sam Killer, the internet's most very rich child. Uh, speaking

of children, you know who was terrible with children? M John Harvey Killock. That America's great come doctor. So if you can we have the title of these episodes be America's Great Come Doctor. I mean, if it's what your heart desire, I've never stopped you. Magna come doctor, Magna doctor. Magna come loud though, No, Okay, so let's let's let's I actually scripted the start of this being let's start this episode by talking a whole lot about masturbation, and

I guess we got an early start on that. Yeah, we're depraved, We're depraved. I didn't. Most people would agree that masturbating is among with some exceptions, is among the least problematic things that you can do as long as you're private about it. It's low carbon, it's available to people regardless of their income level, and it brings with it a whole bunch of health benefits. You know, people with penises who masturbate regularly have lower risks of variety

of cancers. People with vaginas who masturbate regularly often find climaxing makes sex easier. Everyone who masturbates can benefit from pain relief, better sleep, lower levels of cortisol. It's pretty much a win win, is what I'm saying. I'm really glad you said privately because Louis c K J Yes, I was. I was thinking about Louis c. K when I wrote that paragraph and made certain to insert privately mm hmmm mmmm into a plant, into an innocent plant

in front of innocent people. I'm gonna go ahead and say, if you're private about it, it's fine to come in plants. Yeah, it's fine their plants. They don't know what's going on. They don't know what you're doing to them. It's like having sex when a cat's in the room. The cat doesn't understand, and if your worried scoop it out after that seems worse for some reason, do you really care? You care that much? It's like you're gonna bust on the soil. But then you're like, well, I don't want

to fully. I think coming on a plant, it's like it's like having sex in front of a cat or a dog when they're in the room, and it's like, yeah, they don't know what's going on. It's not like sucking in front of a monkey. If you've ever sucked in front of a monkey, the monkeys know what's happening. I don't think you're right about that one. I think I'm right about that. I don't like eyes on me, even animal or otherwise. Well, my old roommates dog used to

hump along on the side. Oh yeah, I mean, but that that doesn't mean he knows what's happening. That just means he knows the motion, but just at a young age or shout out, shout out to the young legend rocks. He that's the dog's name. Wow. I once fucked in front of a couple of hundred monkeys and it was very clear that they were all well aware of what

was happening. Seven. Yeah it was he Robert is now the all like Takata, like most interesting man in the world guy, rather as just yeah, it's you just like hitting a forty in an alleyway, like the same setup, and he's like in front of three monkeys. Have you ever even fucked? It might have been a few dozen, It's hard to tell. In the it was a lot of when he did that bit, just give a nice cheers and a cocktie brow. You know. It's just if

there's an energy to it. I feel like if Steel Reserve wanted to advertise with me, I could sell a lot of Steel Reserve. That is yah extra gravity to eleven, Baby, where's the two eleven crew at Steel Reserve? When was the last time you vomited on another person? Steel Reserve to eleven? Also armed robbery? Who knows whatever? Still Reserve the perfect size for holding a six shooter in your other hands. The California penal code. Yea. Yeah, so this

was longer than I intended the introduction to be. But the point of it is that you have to work pretty hard to make masturbation be unhealthy. Um and this is how people, I think in general feel now because of overwhelming, rigorous scientific data showing that it's pretty good for you. But in John Harvey Kellogg's day, scientific consensus was less about what the hard data said and more about whatever a bunch of weird white dudes with sexual

hang ups figured was right. Kellogg was the latest and one of the biggest links in a chain that stretched back generations. Sylvester Graham and many of the other scientists of his day believe masturbation would lead inevitably to insanity if it continued long enough. Kellogg agreed and extended the dangers of coming further to a breathtaking list of maladies. Here's how scholar Verne Bullog captured the different ailments Dr

Kelov Kellogg blamed on masturbation. Quote general disability, consumption like symptoms, premature and defective development, sudden changes in disposition, lassitude, sleeplessness, failure of mental capacity, fickleness, untrustworthiness, love of solitude, bashfulness, a natural boldness, mock piety, being easily frightened, confusion of ideas, aversion to girls and boys, but a decided liking of boys and girls. So I guess you like you like

tom boys too much? If you masturbate, round shoulders, a week back and stiffness of joints, paralysis of the lower extremities, a natural gait, bad posture in bed, lack of breast development, and females capricious appetite, fondness for a natural or hurtful or irritation articles such as salt, pepper, spices, vinegar, mustard, clay, slate, pencils, plaster, and shot. You might like spices and chock if you come too much? Oh what is this list? How convenient?

Disgusted it? Simple food, use of tobacco, unnatural paleness, acne or pimples, biting of fingernails, shifty eyes, moist cold hands, palpitation of the heart, hysteria and females clorosis or green sickness, anemia, epileptic fits, bedwedding, and use of obscene words and phrases. I will say that last one is accurate. People do do do cuss a lot when when masturbating. I mean, who knows who have thought a teenage with pimples might

also be masturbating? Yeah, there's a real correlation. It's not there. And actually, Myles, you've keyed in on how all of this nonsense really got going in the first place. Because scientists of the day I didn't want to think that they weren't empiric, basing their conclusions on like empiric reality even though they weren't, and they found ways to convince themselves that observation backed up their fears about masturbation. Here's

how it worked. Nineteenth century physicians would observe patients and mental institutions and make a note of what behaviors they engaged in. The idea was that whatever behavior unhealthy people engaged in must somehow cause that unhealthiness. And since the number one thing inmates and asylums did was masturbate, doctors conclusion that masturbation caused insanity. What the fun I mean, it's not funny, because no, it's century. Asylums were just

unbelievable crimes against humanity. But God, good Lord, how simple, and we were calling these people fucking experts. These people we lock up in a room and never let out our masturbating. That must be why we locked them up, damn it. Huh. And then what have you that people

that are always looking at them masturbating. Yeah, I don't think any of them ever analyzed themselves a little there, like apply that same logic path to anything else except for this one thing, like they did, but like they did with like kids have pimples and kids masturbate, it must be a cause, you know, but everything well then also, let's see this kid's also he walks funny, all right's a weird gate and his posture is bad because he's a teen who's like awkward in their own body or

their awkward in their own body. And you know, it's just but I love late the lazy science of this time. It's amazing, just like it's so fucking ridiculous and unchallenged it is. And based on this unbelievably shoddy data, like huge chunks of the scientific community conclude that masturbation is not just bad for you, but a public health menace.

And as a result, and since it was like a menace, doctors developed a variety of ways to treat it, because obviously this is a life threatening problem, so almost anything is justified. Ap Ointments were applied to the hands or genitals of the masturbating youth to make touching their genitals painful. Uh, stuff like icy hot. Basically do they put like at

on people's genitals to make it hurt to touch. Some surgeons would actually put holes in a person's foreskin and insert a ring into it, not unlike a Prince Albert, but in such a way that if you were to if you were to get erect, it would stretch the foreskin painfully. Yeah, these are torture devices, like the club for you. Yeah, like the club for your foreskin. That is so fucked up and violent, it's horrible. What's the horrible? What?

And did they have any like success stories that the success story, this one knocked off the masturbating and now they're completely Uh, they're they're they're they're much better now we've seen market improvement. I would imagine the way a lot of the success stories work is that, Right, You've got this kid who is has some sort of behavioral problem. Right, he's not paying attention in school, He's he's lashing out or something. He's doing something and you're blaming it on

the masturbation. So you put a torture ring in his dick and he stops doing the thing that got him punished because you're torturing him, right, and he doesn't want to be tortured. It's not because he stopped masturbating, because masturbation wasn't causing the behavior, although he probably doesn't masturbate as much because you put a torturing in his dick. But through the same kind of logic they were using earlier in the mental hospitals, people conclude this helps. Wow,

it's great closed loop. Um Castration was ordered in the most severe cases, but circumcision was much more common, and in fact, in the United States, circumcision first gained purchase among gentiles because it was believed, I mean accurately, that it would deadened sensation and thus reduce masturbation. So circumcision first became popular among like non Jewish people in the United States because it was like an anti masturbation treatment.

How did that go? Nobody's ever come, myles. I don't know if you're aware of this, but it doesn't happen anymore. It's like I'm gonna get some more of that beef fat from earlier. Be right back, are you guys rendering that lard? So today? Uh, you know, as with today, like for every popular kind of health ailment boogeyman, even like COVID nineteen. You know, there's the stuff the doctors actually prescribed for it, and then there's a whole bunch

of like mom cures. You know what I'm talking about when I say mom cures, Yeah, homespun remedies cooked up by parents. This is the case today with every kind of public health problem, and it was the case in the nineteen hundreds with masturbation, as this section from a study in the Journal of Technology and Culture lays out quote. Some parents, however, preferred to develop methods of their own,

many of which were patented. American inventive genius quickly asserted itself through the development of a wide variety of gloves, guards, and other devices designed to make it more difficult for a child to masturbate. Gloves, for example, we're tied on child children's hands when as they went to bed, and parents were instructed to have their child sleep with the gloves on top of the blanket to make certain that there was not even gloved contact with the genital area.

Gloves were also advised for mental patients and were widely used in mental institutions. Especially designed bed cradles were manufactured in order to lift the bedclothes from the genital area so that the child would not rub against the blankets. Girls were discouraged from spreading their legs, and special hobbles were designed to prevent them from doing so. They hobbled young girls legs to stop them from spreading them because

it was thought that that would cause masturbation. Oh most ubiquitous, however, were the various harnesses designed to protect the genital area, usually patented under the to the term surgical devices. The female harnesses usually had perforated wire type meshing so that the girls could urinate through them and never touched themselves. All of these devices were fastened in the back, many with locks for which only the parents had the key.

For males, there were similar devices, but most popular were sheaths with metal teeth that fitted over the penis. If the penis became erect, the teeth pierced the flesh and made any erection painful. Each new breakthrough in technology seemed to lead to a new kind of device. Appliances that gave electric shocks, for example, came on the market after the elopment of batteries. From patent office records, I have been able to identify some twenty devices intended to prevent masturbation.

Twenty devices. Yeah, that's just the ones that got patented. How common would you say this was as a percentage? I have no idea it was. It was obviously this was a thing that wealthier parents did to wealthier kids more often than it was for the poor. Because it costs money to get these kind of medical treatments, that costs money to buy these kinds of devices. Um, but it was not uncommon, right, I think is clear it was.

And and the idea that even if these devices weren't, the most method of treating with it, punishing some sort of punishment, often involving physical pain for masturbation, I would say, was the norm like when it was caught, because there was a very widespread idea that it was harmful. Right, So that's that makes so much sense I think in really trying to look at sort of the practical experience of how puritanical American society is and the averse to

sexuality is you have it. You have generations of people who are you know, receiving punitive treatment, you know, punishment, uh, physical punishment for exploring their sexuality. And how that just sort of keeps manifesting and iterating. Yeah, it's pretty great, Um, pretty great. I mean it's wild because some of the devices described you can now still find on sale, but for a very different purpose. Um. But I suspect that

probably has something to do with that. A lot of weird kinks are born during this period because of the medical genital torture industry. It's good stuff, Miles, it's good stuff. So thanks for having thanks for being on here. It's gonna get a lot worse. As a heads up, yeah, this is the best it's going to be. So just saying just savor, savor the moment where we're just talking about a torture cage for a penis. Um. So John

Harvey Outlogue. The reason I go through all this is to point out that he was not the origin point for the war on masturbation, nor was he the only prominent voice urging abuse of treatments to discourage perfectly natural self pleasuring. He was, however, the most prominent physician in the country. By the early nineteen hundreds, the sanitarium was one of the most advanced and respected medical facilities in the nation, and since Dr Kellogg was an experiment er,

he experimented with new treatments from masturbation as well. One of these treatments involved what he called skillful catheterization, using his considerable surgical abilities to insert a catheter up the aurethra of the offending masturbator. Next, he would electrocute the catheter going up into their aurethra, often while shooting water up into the urethra at the same time to make

it more conductive. Yeah, I guess, or just because he fixed shooting water into every hole is the solution to problems. It might not have been a tort it that might just have been because like, well, if we add water, it will make it better, because water is the medicine that I prefer. Water and electricity the great these electrifying baths. So it's not a huge jump for the man Jesus. But yeah, shoves a catheter up there urethro and then

shoots water and electricity up it again. It sounds like something the CIA would do, right, Like that's some Guantanamo shit. Is there any evidence, like we're the writings on the success, you know, because I'm sure they probably had to manufacture stories to make it. Like how could you just like okay, yeah, because okay, because I'm just like, you know, this is

just so fuck up. A big part of this is it is not quite universally accepted that that this is bad health wise, and it was, but it was nearly universally accepted that it was morally wrong. So it wasn't just does it work? It was this needs to be punished, right, so this is what you do. It's just like parents beating their kids for thousands of years, nobody like there. You could find a lot of different people writing about how healthy it is to hit your kid. Nobody was

doing studies on it. There wasn't empirical evidence about the value of slapping your get around, but they did it and they were certain that it helped. So I don't know, Yes, so this is just the are just sickest urges in this, you know, morally quote unquote justifiable? Way absolutely? Um so yeah that that was one of Kellogg's experimental therapies, and he would he wouldn't when he would have people brought

into his facility for chronic masturbation. They would often be interned at the sanitarium for long periods of time, where a variety of therapies would be tried on them. We talked last episode about his specific painfully uncomfortable betting requirements to avoid stimulation. This was in part because Dr Kellogg viewed comfortable, healthy sleep, the kind where you you know,

enter a rim cycle and dream as inherently dangerous. He declared in writing, in perfectly natural sleep, there are no dreams. Consciousness is entirely suspended, and for some reason, that is one of the most frightening things I've ever read. Just like, if you're dreaming, you're unhealthy. Someone's dreaming, someone's having weird dreams, aren't they. Dr John Kellogg is having some dreams that

he does not like. Hey, if you're having dreams too, then you're just as Based on this logic, yeah, that's why you want to make sure they're sleeping. Arrangements are as uncomfortable as possible, so that nobody ever gets a good night's sleep. And did he practice what he preached? He did. He did practice what he to to the extent that we can verify as far as we know, he practiced what he preached. Interesting, John Harvey didn't just

think dreams were unhealthy. He thought they were immoral. If a child or a woman with a masturbating problem claimed to be unable to control their dreams, he would call them a liar. Erotic dreams, in Kellogg's understanding, were choices acts of deliberate defiance against morality and against the medical establishment. Dr Kellogg also urged his patients to avoid consumption of quote sexually aggressive food. And here's a quote from Kellogg.

Tea and coffee have led thousands to perdition in this way, candy, spices, cinnamon, clothes, peppermints, and all strong essences powerfully excite the genital organ and lead to the same result. You know how when you're drinking coffee and you just can't stop yourself, just just just pounding it like a beach at oh Maha before the ground assaulting did cinnamon might as well call it? Oh no, No, they didn't have spices in his day. Remember he broke up with his brother because his brother

puts sugar in the corners. It was part of part of why they didn't get along. Yeah, I really appreciate that D day visual to thank you. Yes, it's a someone furiously masturbating, like on a hedgehog on the beach. Uh So, all right, here's the ads. We're back, we're back, and we're all having a good appropriate work day. Um, let's get back to talking about how this old man punished people for masturbating. So it will probably not surprise

you to hear that. John Harvey Kellogg also forbade his patients from reading romantic literature, which in his mind, was as deadly as any hard drug. Quote. Storybooks, romances, love tales, and religious novels constitute the chief part of the reading matter which American young ladies greedily devour. We have known young ladies still in their teens who had read whole libraries of the most exciting novels. The taste for novel reading is like that for liquor or opium. Wait the whole.

Guys like Kellogg, he wants a world where nobody eats spices, everything is planned, nobody sleeps a full night's sleep, and people are tortured for masturbating. And if a girl reads a romance novel, she might become aware of the fact that it's possible to enjoy life and that would be

devastating to John Harvey Kellogg's worldview. What a fucking he is Just it's just so ridiculous when that earlier quote, when he's said it would be like an act of you know, you know, transgression against medical establishment, and he coupled that with morality, you know, just sort of this you know, Oh, they've been ordained from fucking by God to be the enforcers of his law. However they see

it through their fucked up lens. He believes that struggle, you know, he gets into medicine through the Seventh day Adventist Church to him dedicating him to God. And now like it's just like, what a fucking that? Just what shows you though too, Like I'm sure you know how again that's something else that reverberates in medicine culturally. If this is if this is part of you know, like I'm I'm guessing this was the medical establishment. Like quite

this is not universal. There are, as we talked about later, there's doctors a lot, there's medical like a not insignificant amount of medical professionals. And in this period, even who disagree with these conclusions but this is a fairly mainstream attitude. Yes, um, you know, John Harvey Kellogg is kind of like a Doctor Oz figure, but he is much more respected among mainstream doctors than Dr Oz was imparted because he is

actually an excellent surgeon, right like he isn't. Yeah? Um, So I found a lot of the quotes that I've read so far, and a wonderful why write up by Jezebel It will be on the show. Notes that I really recommend reading. Um. That article summarizes Dr Kellogg's arguments against romance literature. Thus Lee. The problem with this sort of reading, explained to Kellogg, is that it takes a girl beyond the wholesome dreadfulness of her reality and transports

her to a place that triggers passion. Passion so great that some girls quote discovered the fatal secret themselves. And the fatal secret is, of course, that it's it's possible for women to orgasm. Oh my god, you don't. You don't want to learning that? And this here that I should note that John Harvey Kellogg bragged his entire life about never consummating his marriage. He was married for like forty something years and would grag his entire life, that

he and his wife never fucked. I'm so sorry to her, but I have a feeling he was probably bad at sex. I think she might have dodged a bullet there. Yeah, yeah, I think so. She's like, yeah, what is how do you like? You're like, oh, you know, I'm not fine dry for fucking ages, man, baby, it's just oh my god, kidney stones. I don't even get my dick wet when I take a bath. A special copper submersible diving bell for my genitals, Oh god what ah? No, definitely not

a genital diving bell. Yeah, a genital that's very fun. I mean, I don't know what do you even say to that this is this is this is like like the fact that you would brag about being married for forty something years and never once fucking is give some And the fact that he's a man who thought that dreaming was unhealthy. Like both of those facts together like, oh, you were profoundly damaged, just an incredibly unhealthy person. Yeah,

it's unbelievable. And then really amazing this like his place in our culture and being so like just unwitting about the entire history about him. Aside from just vaguely being like, like like I said in the beginning of like, yeah, dude, I know he was like about masturbation. Yeah, no, no, it's it's real bad. It's about to get real worse.

So John Harvey Kellogg, if questioned on any of the things that I've read, any of his like statements that I've read earlier, if questioned about any of this, would have defended himself by pointing out studies like the research into masturbating mental patients. He would have claimed accurately that the dangers of masturbation were widely agreed upon by experts of his day. But most of his specific claims about how children were impacted by what he called the secret

vice were not tied to any specific research. He was convinced, for moral reasons that masturbation was a danger, eclipsing almost anything else. There was no research to show that electrocution, uncomfortable beds, and mental abuse actually stopped masturbation, but they punished the crime of self abuse, and John Harvey looked no further than that in justifying his treatments. And again you have to remember that this guy is like the

pop doctor of his day. Parents listened to him. Here is a checklist he published of different behaviors that, in his mind, were signs that a parent's child was secretly engaged in deadly masturbation. Bed wedding quote. Masturbation causes the entire genital area to become lax and undisciplined changes in behavior. When a girl naturally joyous, happy, confiding, and amiable becomes

an unaccountably gloomy, sad, fretful to satisfied and unconfiding. Be certain that masturbation is the cause for it will rarely be found to be anything other than solitary and indulgence. He listed insomnia as a justification for a suspicion of evil habits. Trouble in school might also indicate masturbation, as doctor as Dr Kellogg claimed, it damage children's memories and their ability to focus. Masturbation caused lying, bashfulness and an

unwillingness to meet the eyes of adults. The eye is a wonderful tell tale of the secrets of the mind, he warned parents. Boldness a child acting out, in other words, was another sign of secret masturbation, as was fearfulness quote. Easily frightened children are abundant among young masturbaters. The victim's mind is constantly filled with vague forebodings of evil. He often looks behind him, looks into all the closets, peeps under the bed, and is constantly expressing fears of impending evil.

Such movements are the result of a diseased imagination, and they may give right justly give rise to suspicion. Another sign, z Miles, it's like he's just listing everything a kid would possibly do. It's so fucked up and unfair. It gets worse. Another side was unusual vaginal discharge or a stretched vaginal cavity in little girls. Most worrisome, Kellogg wrote,

was seductive behavior from young female children. A forward or loose manner and company with little boys is suspicious conduct, especially in one who has previously shown no disposition of this short sort. Girls addicted to this habit usually show an unnatural fondness for the society of little boys, and not infrequently are guilty of the most wanton conduct. Now you already noted, Miles, that a number of these symptoms

of secret masturbation or just things kids do. But it gets worse than that, because, as that Jezebel write up notes, a lot of the things that Dr Kellog laid out as signs of masturbation are also today commonly recognized signs that a child may be sexually abused. Oh my God, yeah, buddy, yeah, Jesus, here's Jezebel quote the Delaware Department of Services for Children,

Youth and their Families. Because it gives a very succinct list of similar behaviors, which also include changes and behavior inappropriate sexual behaviors, changes in school performance, and vaginal discharge. Modern medicine and psychology identifies these conditions as potential signs of a child being sexually abused. The two lists match almost word for word. Now, the thought that countless sex

abuse victims were brought to Dr Kellogg. Child sex abuse victims were brought to Dr Kellogg and punished for masturbation is horrible enough, but it actually gets a lot worse than that. A particularly dire case study would be one that Kellogg himself wrote out in his nineteen o two edition of Ladies Guide to Health and Disease, a book he absolutely should not have written. He writes that a mother brought in her ten year old daughter to him for treatment. The young girl was a rape victim. Dr

Kellogg identifies her as such. He knew that she was a victim of sexual abuse, and he wrote quote her first instruction, and by instruction he means her first Like she first learned about sex by this guy who abused her. Was received from a hoary headed fiend in human shape who had enticed her to a secluded place, and they're introduced her to all the nastiness which is depraved and sensual nature could devise. Now, so far, that's not horrible. He's putting the blame on the abuser, which is good.

But the problem is that Kellogg didn't see this little girl's chief problem as the fact that she'd been abused and assaulted and robbed of agency over her own body. In his eyes, the problem was that she had been introduced to sexual sin and that was going to make her masturbate. Oh my god. So again he gets brought a ten year old sex abuse victim and his first concern is she might start masturbating. Yeah, yeah, and like

this just horrible feedback loop. That's impossible, Like all roads just lead to this no matter what, and there's no empathy or anything. And it's the thing where even if this person is a victim in being a victim leads them to this what he believes as an evil behavior. The solution is always some form of abuse to stop

the masturbation. He wrote, quote, a little girl, naturally bright, an unusually attractive and intelligent, had become the victim of this soul and body destroying habit, which had brought on a serious nervous disease and threatened to destroy both body and mind before she had reached the age of ten years. So you see what he's doing here. He's identifying that she's traumatized, but he's blaming it not on the assault, but on the fact that she's masturbating. That he assumes

she's masturbating as a result of the assault. As a physician, Dr Kellogg saw his job as not helping this girl with the trauma from her assault, or even treating the physical symptoms of her rape. His job was to stop her from masturbating. In cases like these, he had a standard procedure. Step one was that the parents needed to

catch their child in the act. The best way to do that, he believed, was to wait until a few minutes after the child had gone to bed and sneak up on them, throw off their blankets and quote under some pretense forcibly examined the child's in to tal you for evidence of sexual excitement. So again he's brought in a rape victim and he tells your parents, what you need to do is assaulter in the night of the night. Yeah. Yeah,

hard to define a worse thing to do in that situation. Yeah, and again no matter, Oh, it's presumed masturbating is the reason that they have are displaying trauma on top of or displaying their signs of their trauma on top of acknowledging but not understand. It's just so vile. Yeah, it's

it's really bad. And like to know that again whatever if this is the majority or whatever, that it's mainstream enough that there are generations of parents that ingested this, Like how like what the reverberations of that are and like down like in our culture and where like where we're at, like this is, yeah, this is thee of

the seeds of that. Yeah, you you think about just how fucked up things, how how clearly fucked up both not just like the things revealed by me too, but sort of the the reaction to it and the lashing back against it, all of that um, this is a part of that, right, because a lot of the generations that created what are today is sort of like the

conservative moral code, were raised in this stuff. Their grandparents were raised in this stuff, right, and they passed some of that down like this is a piece of that horrible puzzle. It's pretty bad. So back on this subject of inspecting kids to make sure they're not masturbating. For children with penises, this was as easy as looking for

an erection. For children with vagina's, Kellogg wrote, quote, if the same course is pursued with girls under the same circumstances, the clearest will be found congested with the other genital organs, which will also be moist from increased secretion. So let's recap. His advice to the appearance of a teen year old rape victim was to throw off her covers by surprise and the dead of night and forcefully inspect her vagiant. His prescription for the each parents of sex abuse victims

was to abuse their children. Further. It's yeah, like what again, what's the that? What are you saying at that? But again it's like they don't get care about evidence, because this really isn't about no improving their lives. The The real threat is it's telling that like he's obviously disgusted at the rapist, but his real horror is that the the young girl might take some sort of agency over her body. That's the actual thing that he's he's frightened of um or boys. He was he didn't like boys

taking age. He didn't be believe people had He believed like I think it was more like like your body belongs to God, right, it's the seventh Day. I mean, it's not just the seven day eventus that believe this, But that's where he gets it. It's this idea that your body is not your own and it is my job as a physician to stop you from abusing it. It's pretty bad and what a morbid responsibility to think, Yes, yeah, um,

pretty dark. Uh. And I should say that everything we've just outlined was the least invasive deterrent that John Harvey Kellogg suggested for the cases of masturbation. The goal here was to shame these kids by embarrassing them. They didn't like that was that was the actual goal, was that, like, if your parents catch you in the night, you will

be ashamed and you won't do it anymore. He believed that what he one instance of what he called morally justified violation would deter most children, for those who soldiered on his prescription grew more severe. Quote. Bandaging the parts has been practiced with success. Tying the hands is also successful in some cases, but this will not always succeed, for they will often contrive to continue the habit in other ways, as by working the limbs or lying upon

the abdomen. Covering the organs with the cage has been practiced with entire success. Like many doctors of his era, Kellogg prescribed circumcision to his most severe patients. He was adamant that in these cases painkillers should not be prescribed. Quote. The operations should be performed by a surgeon with without administering an anesthetic. Is the brief pain attending the the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as

it may well be in some cases. The soreness, which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed. Jesus So surgery with yeah genital surgery without uh, anesthesia is your punishment for masturbating? I don't. We are now in the territory of like I think some CIA guys would be like, whoa hold on someone, get the Geneva Convention really quick. We've never read it,

but I'm pretty sure this isn't. This definitely is over the line. Huh yeah, damn yeah so And I'm just thinking again that will accepted that kind of treat it is, and like how the pattern of inflict as much pain as possible to solve the problem yep, still exists to this day. It shure does, mich you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, it sure does. Surgery was also prescribed for little girls. Um, and I'm not going to prevaricate here. The surgical option

was what we now call female genital mutilation. Um. They did not call it that then. They called it the severing of the clitterests and the labia minora. Kellogg himself wrote in one of his case studies, quote, a little girl about ten years of age was brought to us by her father, who came with his daughter with his daughter to have her broken of the vile habit of

self abuse into which she had fallen. Having read an early copy of this work, the father had speedily detected the habit and had adopted every measure which he could devise to break his child of the destructive vice which she had acquired. But in vain, it finally became necessary to resort to a surgical operation, by which it is hoped that she was permanently cured, as we have heard nothing to the contrary since and since, and as the

remedy seemed to be effectual. So that is a father who is a fan of Kelly Kellogg's books, reads them and becomes obsessed with the idea that his daughter might be masturbating, become convinced that he's master, that she is masturbating, that he can't stop her um and after repeatedly assaulting her in the night, takes her to Dr Kellogg to have her genitals mutilated. That that's what happened in that case study, and that's a success. That is a success.

And one of the good things that Jezebel article notes is that, as you can tell from that like in that right up, Dr Kellogg doesn't check in on the child. He says it is it is hoped she was permanently accured because we haven't heard anything to the contrary, since he doesn't Yeah, he doesn't check it in. He doesn't be like, yeah, look, look back in after four or five weeks after this surgery to see if it did anything. Like,

he doesn't do a follow man, it is it's butchery. Yeah, and it's he's treating it like it's some kind of tumor. It's like, yeah, yeah, I know, I just do that and then uh, don't worry about it, like that's that's problem. That'll that'll, that'll take care of it, Like you're not. It's not again, it's not like you're saying it's butchery. It's not actual. There's nothing. There's nothing restorative or helpful

or healthy, no about sucking any of it. No. And it's because it's it's not really based in science, it's based in morality. He doesn't need to study how his patients do in the long term when he does stuff like this, because he knows he's right. It would be

a waste of time to confirm it. Many doctors and Kellogg's era prescribed female genital mutilation as a treatment for masturbation, but Kellogg pioneered another treatment the application of carbolic acid to the sensitive parts of the sexual organs in order to burn them badly enough that all sensation was permanently deadened. Jesus Christ, I know this. This is the This is in some ways maybe the worst one since Georgia Tan. Yeah. Yeah, it's bad. It's real fucking bad. Didn't we do Georgia

Tan with Sophia? We did. We're just scarring left right, Yeah, we're gonna break them down. Yeah. Please associate my stoner reality podcast with this. Check this show out nothing being high and watching TV like profoundly abusive practices towards probably tens of thousands of children. Do you think that's that's the number? I mean, not just we're not just talking Kellogg here when I I really have no idea, but

it was, it was. He was not the only doctor doing this like and will because this was you didn't want to talk about sex. Well, we will never know how many little girls in this period in the United States were mutilated in this way. Here's some ads. We're back,

We're back. Um now. I have noted that Kellogg was not alone in using female genital mu relation is a treatment for masturbation here, but I should also note that a huge number of medical professionals railed against the practice, and that even in Kellogg's day, a significant amount of legitimate, documented scientific literature pointed to it being a wildly harmful procedure. This was not uncommon. It was also not universally agreed

upon as healthy. In eighteen sixty eight, when John Harvey was just fifteen, a gynecologist named Charles Rest wrote a book called Lectures on the Diseases of Women. In it, he recalled the story of a fifty three year old

woman who went to a surgeon for anal fissures. The surgeon, in this case, without getting her permission or asking at all, also removed her clitterist west In eighteen sixty eight, a male gynecologist condemned this behavior and wrote it will I imagine scarcely be contended that proceedings which we should reprobate if practiced on the one sex, changed their character when perpetrated on the other. And he's saying, if they'd cut a guy's dick off, you wouldn't be okay with this.

Why is it okay when it's a clitterist. So there were people who recognized, there were doctors who recognized how horrible this was. It was not just the sign of the times, you know, I mean, like, so what was it take, Like did the general public need doctors like that to like even stimulate that kind of thinking for them to be like, yeah, hold on, maybe that is bad.

Or do you think there were people who I'm sure I'm hearing that we're also like what the fun I'm sure there were I'm sure there were plenty of even like poor illiterate dudes who are like, I'm not going to let you cut my my my kids up, like fuck you, like stay the hell away. Yeah, I'm certain that happened. But obviously those people aren't writing books, and those people aren't giving lectures that make sure medical schools

like John Harvey Kellogg. You know, John Harvey Kellogg kept up his devotion to clar erectoms his entire medical career, even after nineteen twelve, when mainstream medical textbooks began to condemn the practices not just completely ineffective but liable to cause the kind of mental health problems that James Harvey Kellogg blamed on master Nation. The fact that he was wrong about a great deal of very important things had

no negative impact on John Harvey's sanitarium. This was, unfortunately due partly to the fact that he was right about an awful lot. Kellub was a major early proponent of exercise, which at the time was not widely recognized as beneficial. He was also way ahead of the curve on gut bacteria.

Medical scientists are only really now starting to get a handle on how important gut bacteria are to your overall health health, but in lately, in the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds, doctor John Harvey Kellogg understood, you know how big a deal it was. He partnered with Henrie to say, I'm probably some guy, some French fucking guy, a scientist at the Pasture Laboratory in France, and together they would study acidophilis, proving he understood how to do

actual rigorous empirical science when he wanted to. Kellogg and his partner found that people whose guts had acidophilis suffered far fewer digestive diseases than people who did not, So he was capable of doing science. Yeah, in that very strict way. Yeah, all right, if all these people got it, then that's that means that you know what I mean, if they're all masturbating, then that's that's a sign. That's all I need. And then you know it's like the

clock is broken. Clocks right. Kellogg became a huge advocate of yogurt's health benefits. He became rightfully convinced that the bacteria and yogurt protected against disease and believed those bacteria quote should be planted where they are most needed and may render the most effective service. This of course meant eating yogurt. But that isn't all at meant miles and you know the guyness was right, you know what he's this,

He's gonna put it up there. But Kellogg had been convinced for years that auto intoxication, which we discussed last episode, was beyond behind all bowel disease. Once he realized that yogurt could populate the gut with good bacteria, he saw yogurt as a cure for auto intoxication and the best way of administering it would be via enema. He would use his enema machine for this whole court court of water first, and then gigantic quantities of yogurt up the

ass second. Wow, I mean, at least he had evidence and that was. There's a lot more evidence that shooting yogurt up your ass is good than anything than anything he's ever done in his life. But that's where we're at with this guy and his patented machine. Obviously, because he did shooting stuff up his own ass machine which absolutely wasn't a kink, No, not at all. And this

is custom, custom machinery or not, maybe just repurposed industrial machinery. Yeah, the machine that he designed to shoot yogurt up his own ass. Because he started every single day with a regular enema and a yogurt enema if you're ever expensive, I mean, he was really wasted. He runs the enema company, you know, I know, but I mean, like, how much yogurt are you going through a day there? I think less than the water, right, I mean like, yeah, gallons

of yogurt. I mean maybe that's a flex if you're saying like that, I can shoot gallons literally do a half barrel. Yeah. As a rule, if you're ever wondering what doctor James John Rvey Kellogg was getting up to on a specific day in history, you would be safe in guessing shooting a variety of liquids up his own ass gut problems were at least as big a part

of the sanitarium's treatments as abuse of sexual procedures. McGill University writes, quote, There were other options for those who didn't see the appeal of being pumped full of yogurt through their rear portals. The Sands mechano Therapy department had come up with the vibratory chair. This was a spring loaded device that shook the patient violently to stimulate intestinal peristalis.

Once the toxins had been dislodged in this fashion, headaches and back aches would disappear, and according to Kellogg, the body would be filled with a healthy dose of oxygen and the Sand's coffers would be filled with a heavy dose of money. The Sand off also offered a variety of baths cold, hot, and electrified. If this did not shock the disease out of the unfortunate victim, then Dr Kellogg resorted to surgery, removing the offending part of the intestine.

Kellogg carried out over twenty two thousands such operations during his career with a remarkably low complicate complication rate. Probably not necessary procedures, but at least he was good at it. Out of him. And what was that based off of people who were did a lot of off road bugging. We're really healthy because they were just I just had the rockiest set in town. I have no idea what that one was based on. They were just try and ship past a certain point, you know, like fuck it.

John Harvey Kellogg's pioneering work played a major role in popularizing yogurt within the Western diet. He was also one of the first major advocates of soy milk, which he found was an even better way to propagate acidophilis than yogurt, and this brings us to Dr Kellogg's most famous and popular contribution to mankind kfist. John Harvey Kellogg had a brother, will Keith, who for a time worked with him at the sanitarium. Together, the two spent years developing foods meant

to replace meat in the diet. Who created a number of different nut butters, experimented with soy, and looked for more ways to work whole grains into the American diet. Dr Kellogg was a big fan of zwyback, a twice baked biscuit that he felt felt helped people purge toxins, but Zwyback was so hard that at one point, an elderly patient at the sanitarium broke her dentures on it and threatened to sue him if he didn't pay for them.

John Harvey didn't want to pay for more old people's dentures, so he and his brother Will set to work developing a way to pound grain and fiber into their patients without damaging their teeth. Through an incredibly boring process of trial and error, they arrived at corn flakes. Miguil writes, quote John Harvey was only interested in the health properties of the new products. Could these serve as an antidote to the passion stirred up by meat? But Will was

a businessman and was bent on commercialization. Now I found a write up on encyclopedia dot com that actually gives find a good explanation of the fallout that resulted between John Harvey and his brother Will, who seems like the only sort of decent member of the family. Um, John Harvey absolutely comes out as the asshole in this relationship. Quote. Will, often known as W. K. Kellogg, never had a very good relationship with his older brother. According to Benjamin Klein,

Hunnicutt and Kellogg six hour day. Famous for his energy and untiring work, John Harvey cultivated the image of a superman dictating the secretaries for eight hours at a stretch, performing operations through the night, conspicuously working at meals and on trains. John Harvey expected w K to live up to this myth and berated him for being lazy if

he stole some time at home. When Post began making millions of dollars through aggressive advertising and free giveaways, w K wanted to develop a similar large scale advertising campaign. When his elder brother said no, w K began looking for ways to take control of the company. Because of his notorious frugality, John Harvey had convinced employees to accept lower pay along with stock in the serial business now

known as the Kellogg Toasted corn Flake Company. W K secured financing from a wealthy St. Louis insurance broker and quietly began buying stock. By n six, he controlled the company. So they make a serial company together. But Will does not get along with his brothers is one thing. His brothers just shaming him constantly for like having a life outside of making cereal. You mean, oh I heard you

use pepper. The other day sick fuck well, and Will is seeing like other serial companies have started develop at this point, and Will is seeing them advertise and seeing them add sugar, and he's like, we can make more money if we do this, And John Harvey Kellogg is like, no, it's about keeping people boring and yeah, So Will buys up the company in secret and takes it over from his brother. The break between John and Will came in part because Will wanted to add sugar to corn flakes

so human beings would enjoy it. John Harvey thought sugar would make people come, and he violently opposed the idea. It is hard to overstate what a huge deal corn flakes were for society. I found an NPR interview with an author who wrote a book about the Kellogg brothers, a guy named Markel, and he does a good job of explaining just why this was revolutionary. Quote. Making breakfast was an ordeal. So even if you made porridge or mush, these whole grains took hours to melt down and then

make into a mush or a soft form. And so these poor mothers were getting up very early, and they were probably taking care of their children all night. They had to start a wood burning fire, and so making breakfast was a great ordeal. But John Harvey Kellogg invented them for the involuted people who came to his Battle

Creek Sanitarium. It was his little brother Will who realized, you know, there are a lot more people who are healthy and just want a convenient, tasty snack than those who are ill and eat it need an easily digestible breakfast. So he had added a little sugar a little salt to corn flakes, and it just took the world by storm in nineteen o six because you could simply pour

breakfast out of a box. Even dad could make breakfast. Now, even dad's suspecting you of jerking off, yea, even dad who's tired from breaking into your room at night, who doesn't know how to break his own cycles of abuse and mistreatment. Ken corn flakes, Jesus. But yeah, that's so fucking wild, you know. It's it's something like that just creates all this cover for the name. Now, it's amazing.

I don't know if anyone else we've ever covered with this incredible mix of outrageous harm done to society and also helped create things. Every single person listening to this enjoy it, Like, no matter who you are, he either created or helped popularize something that that you use regularly, that you ingest regularly. And that's like, you can't say that about Hitler, Like overall, right, it doesn't matter that it's the brand is just at a certain point, it's

just a brand. And then you're back and think, I don't know, Kelly, genital mutilation, that's serials, cereal, you're not cutting up people because there's even like that movie The Road to Wellville, Yeah in the nineties, that's like such a like I remember, Yeah, they left a lot of part out that whole thing were really weird. They didn't

include him abusing children. Yeah, yeah, it's just but yeah, but that's I think, Yeah, we just have this blind spot for certain ship at times, or maybe they did see him like we can't do that. It doesn't matter because nobody knows about podcasts yet where someone will take the time to research this and it's you know, it's fucking um. It wasn't easy to research this. It's not easy to read it to you. Nobody on the call was having a good time during the portion of the episode.

I expect a decent number of listeners for perfectly reasonable reason will be like, I can't, I can't do this. Yeah, I can't. I can't do it, Like whereas a funny video of a funny movie about cereal man has an issue with that and thus things get whitewashed and it has you know, modern consequences. Right now, there's a bunch of bills being debated and I think some of even being passed that will allow doctors to like act with

their conscience and refused to treat LGBT people. And it's the same thing the idea that medicine and morality can be tied. They shouldn't be exactly like morality and medicine. It means doing your best to alleviate and treat the symptoms and and and illnesses of your patients, right like morality in medicine means nothing more than doing your best to ensure the health of the people who come to you for treatment. Your personal opinion shouldn't matter what being

a doctor is. Well, but sometimes you're like, oh, I'm a monster that you need to use the occupation. Actually, yeah, i'm a monster. I'm just smart and I'm so cunning that I realized this is the profession. I need to get in proximity of people to do what I do. I think when that guy wrote people first, do no harm, what he meant was cut up little boys and girls, right, yeah, uh yeah. And again the reverberations just in our culture.

You know, it's like everywhere, this same mentality of punishing for getting close to being liberated or understanding something or something that's counter to what has been biblically preached, um, and how that leads to just the absolute dehumanization of people. And like we're still it echoes in the same way as like you know, slavery does in certain ways of white supremacy, that if your medicine is was entrenched in religion like this on some level, that's not going to

still be you know, part of the culture. We're having a reckoning with ye but I mean yogurt. Yeah, honestly, I need to know how much and if there was like if he was he was he cutting the yogurt. He's telling his pure yogurt, But was he cutting you know what? Was he pouring in some cocaine with the yogurt to wear steing? Hey doc, I heard you're stepping on my yogurt. With buttermell uh. So. Yeah. There were a number of other significant positive developments that Dr Kellogg

and his sanitarium played a major role in. They were probably the first major business to make calorie counts and nutrition facts available for all of the meals they served. This would be decades before the practice was mandated in the United States. John Harvey was also a philanthropist. In

three he decided to expand his operation into Chicago. The city police chief advised him to set up his new sanitarium and quote the dirtiest and wickedest place in the city, So he built it in a slum that was heavily populated by impoverished black people. Um. But the satellite facility included a free pharmacy and clinic, free baths, free laundry, and evening school for Chinese language students, and a visiting

nurses service. His cafeteria offered a penny lunch service and fed an estimated five D six hundred people a day. So it wasn't all mutilation. You know, free clinics are good free, well, I don't know. His free clinic is a mixed bag. Free laundry is good, right, Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure he had very evolved ideas on bi racial We're getting there. Yeah, I was gonna say, I can can you imagine what this fucking guys doing, being like I'm gonna service this immunity, Like, We're getting there, buddy.

The success of the sanitarium swelled Dr Kellogg's ego and led to conflicts with his church. By some accounts, his break with Ellen White and the Seventh day Adventist faith started when he caught Sister White eating a piece of fried chicken. Um. The conflicts between the two of them went on for years and are more complex than I can easily summarize, but a lot of it has to do with Kellogg's occasional embrace of the scientific method. The bottom line is that he allowed his scientific beliefs to

sometimes contradict the teachings of his prophet. He was accused of blasphemy and this fellowship in nineteen o seven. One of the beliefs that got Kellogg and trouble was a partial acceptance of evolutionary theory. Unfortunately for everyone, John Harvey's embrace of evolution was mainly a corollary to his embrace of eugenics. From a wonderful and comprehensive write up in

Dr Kellogg's own local paper, The Battle Creek Inquirer. Quote kellogg support of eugenics was tepid to begin with, likely due to eugenicss ties to Darwinism, and his connection to the Seventh Day Adventist Church, which teaches a literal interpretation if the sixth day, sixth day creation story in Genesis. It wasn't until his break from the church in n

seven that he began to truly embrace the ideas. Kellog combined his belief in eugenics his the improvement of human functioning by improvement of living conditions to come up with his own brand of eugenics he referred to as race betterment, the things he had advocated avoiding through his biologic living meat and alcohol redeemed race poisons. Race, that's some Nazi ship poisons, race betterment, race poisons, of course, that's what

you know. I mean, like, it's so, honestly, is he one of the I'll let you go on, But I'm like, I wonder, deep down, we would have been fine if this motherfucker died, Like we would have been absolutely somebody was going to give us. Somebody was going to figure out serial Yeah, he figured out the acid ship with some other dude. Yeah, you know what I mean, I would have figured that out with that. You know what, this is such like you know it? Fuck, you know,

you're not special. Getting into the fact that he basically created the cultural space for guys like Dr Fell and Doctor Oz to the celebrity doctors, he's a big bay that as well. You know, um, not the only race betterment, race betterment, race poisons races. Oh thank you, yeah baby, to save these people. Now, yeah, it's interesting that that last line I just read was basically word for word

Nazi propaganda, because Dr Kellogg was not a Nazi. Now, the precise nature of his racism is fascinating to puzzle out. He is a We can talk a bit about the kind of racist that he is. He's an interesting kind of racist, say that. Yeah. Yeah. Dr Brian Wilson, who wrote the book that was a major source for Part one, seemed to have seems to have framed his bigotry as a natural evolution of his theories on biologic living. He saw selective breeding as the same thing as avoiding meat

and masturbation. Quote. Overall, Kellogg was worried about the ultimate fate of the human race. Kellogg believed quote, if we continue on with our bad habits, we would eventually become extinct potentially. So there was this larger issue of the human race. But if you drill down a little bit more in his public statements, it's pretty clear that he was really concerned about the white race. John Harpey agreed with Teddy Roosevelt that white people were committing race suicide

by allowing inferior races into the country. These races included Black and Asian people, but also people from the bad parts of Europe, like Italy. In the nineteen teens, Kellogg melded a warning against race mixing into his theory of biologic living. The Battle Creek Choirer notes that his beliefs on eugenics were often at odds with how he ran his business in personal life, which is part of why

I think he's an interesting kind of racist. Quote. He rejected segregation of blacks at the at his sanitarium, where African American doctors and nurses were trained. He and his wife Ella Eaton fostered more than forty children, among them African Americans and children from Latin America. Kellogg took great care of sojourn or truth during her visits to the sanitarium, reportedly grafting some of his own skin to her leg to treat an ulcer, and he personally invited Booker T.

Washington to visit as a guest in nineteen ten. So again that's not how do you ever see on that skin graph? I desinitely some pre internet you could be like, you know, I got your skin disjournal treat so I'm not. I literally put my skin on her. I took my skin and donated it. I mean, the point when I say he's not a Nazi isn't to like whitewash him at all, is to say that, like, you can be extremely racist, did not be a Nazi like Teddy Roosevelt. Not a Nazi monster, you know, just because it's not.

It's because the hate is warped in this weird you know betterment exactly your bedroom. Oh no, I'm not saying I'm saying it's racist. That I'm saying you're flawed to begin with. And then what I'm saying is I'm hopeful for you we can make your race better, not as good at white people, but better as opposed to Nazis who say we should exterminate you. I mean, if you guys would stay off that race poison. And I think

that's what that other facility is for. Even though he's running it, he's observing and collected data, and I'm sure that's for him. It's not really it says nothing charitable about it, Like there's clearly something that yes, he'll be like, well, it's fine outwardly that it's a help, but really I'm here to make observations that reinforce my racist worldview. Yes, yes, and yeah, it's one of those things. Yes, he was

a he was a monstrous bigot. Um. He wrote in nineteen o two, quote, the intellectual inferiority of the Negro mail to the European mail is universally acknowledged. This guy you knew book or T Washington it um, Yeah, you know what, you know what you know who book or T.

Washington was smarter than the guy who thought sleep was poison. Yeah, I mean this is, but like it's also like the you know, dawn of like this insidious sort of you know, will later be like deracialized concerned troll racism, because it's still the same thing. Even though you're not espousing violence to begin with it. When you start from there, the premises violent, that's where it's just like, come like really though,

the Race Betterment Foundation, come on, yeah, the Race Betterment Foundation. Yeah. Now, under Kellogg and under his Race Betterment Foundation, the Sanitarium would actually play host to three international eugenics conferences. At these, Kellogg advocated for eugenics registry nationwide that could be used to establish what he called racial thoroughbreads. He advised p well to consult medical records to determine their racial makeup

before getting married. And like all eugenicists, he supported the sterilization of defectives, including criminals. Under his advisement, the Michigan State Legislature passed Public Act thirty four, which authorized the sterilization of quote defective persons. Under this law, at least thirty eight hundred people were involuntarily sterilized. When I guess what that law was repealed, Miles, probably not to like the last thirty years at at Night Teams seventy four.

I guess we did better than you thought. Yeah, yeah, because it's so I mean, and again that's another thing that look, how long the fucking takes like something that's so on its face disgusting that it's like, yeah, oh yeah,

we should probably stop doing that. But then also thinking of how like even you know, women and especially women of color, the pain thresholds are not taken seriously by doctors to this day, And you think, oh wow, because we were fucking yipping with doctor corn Funk over here. Dr corn Funk, I mean I don't I'm not enough.

I'm not an expert on Dr Kellogg, so I don't know if he ever, like we talked liter earlyer, he definitely thought that if you are giving someone like a surgery to stop masturbation, you shouldn't use pain medication because

it's a healthy punishment. I wonder if maybe some of the belief that you don't need to give black people the same amount of pain killers was rooted in that idea too, that idea of like, well, if they're unhealthy, it's their fault and we should correct them by not I I have no idea, or it's just a habit that becomes like culture, a cultural norm within medicine, with

no examination of what that actually means. It's like this, that's why it takes people so long to fucking like stop for a second and look at your patterns and be like, oh, ship, where is this from? What does this mean? But so many people are unwilling to do that. Yep.

I mean, it's one of those things. And it gets so deeply because like black doctors under prescribe pain killers to black patients, just like black ops when they do these like they'll have these games were like you have to shoot someone who There's like a bunch of people flash on the screen. Some have guns, some don't. Black cops are more likely to shoot unarmed black people, like

then they're unarmed white people. It's just like that's how it works because mental colonization and internalized white supremacy, you know what I mean, that's what it does. It's it's that's how fucking pervasive it is. Yep, yep. The conferences that Dr Kellogg held were bizarre affairs. One featured booker T. Washington, who gave a speech on the Negro race to a white audience where he begged for equal treatment and argued

for the common humanity of all men. At the same event, John Harvey Kellogg said this, if the human race is degenerating, then we should know it. We should let the people know, and we should see what ought to be done about it. Okay, this isn't climate change, motherfucker. Yeah no, I bet it wouldn't have believed in climate change the way he said the other thing before that. Yeah, he said he said

that before Booker T. Washington got on. So book Or T goes on on his friend, Yeah, and gives a speech that seems to have mostly been about being like, hey, if you if you like, help black people out. We we can contribute to society. We're Americans too, like we want to we want to contribute to the country, but we need to like not be as as horribly abused by the system as we currently are, right because y'all

aren't past slavery still, so that we're still getting this version. Yeah, and that was the same thing where I mean, I guess he got booked by Kellogg. But Kellogg went on to talk about, like we have to talk about racial degeneracy and race poison and race mixing. It. It's weird. He's like I said, he's a weird kind of racist, but he's definitely a racist, yeah, because he's just all

over the place. But he's just like because he's just he's a concerned roll racist, he's and he's Yeah, there's some ways I know that you mentioned that where he is a lot like the modern racist to be like, well, no, I have look at my black friend, like I'm advocating against white genocide, but I have I'm friends with Ali Alexander whoever, Like like, yeah, maybe maybe he was just the first, Like really, post Nazi white supremacists first got to figure it out, like no, you can't do all that,

you can't look at that, you gotta be like no, well, all all I'm saying is maybe the white race is degenerating, okay, and maybe we need to look at that and then maybe then we can figure out what to do about that. I don't know, I don't know. I'm just saying what do I know? Well, fucking just demonic fuck. And I will say there were other eugenicists in this period Nazis who were saying similar things. So I'm not gonna say

Kellogg was the first person, but he definitely not. Like now that the more I think about it, the more his racism feels extremely modern to me, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. The First Race Betterment Conference, which is what these These events were called included a Better Babies contest, where five thousand children were inspected, measured, and judged based

on their purported race characteristics. Wait, someone listening is going to have a great grandparent who won the Better Babies contest, And I'm excited to learn that, like a fucking Westminster Abbey dog show. Yeah, it seems like it like it's you know what it sounds kind of like is that? Um uh, I think you should leave the sketch where they have the baby off the Year award, but you're saying they're using but it was all kinds of different

races of babies. Yeah, where they were like assess, yeah, how well they write so like a dog show. So there's breed of human being based on my physiognomy chart here, Uh, this is what this? He's got the perfect Nordic lips. Yeah, what the fuck? Yeah. The conference was a huge success, which convinced Kellog that he needed to host the next one on the West coast because eugenics didn't really catch on on the West coast the same way did on the East coast. Um, which I guess it's good for

the West coast. Yeah, congratulations California. We just have Yeah, it's a little bit different here, it's the same brand, different style. The conference was hosted in San Francisco, and it was part of a wider effort by Kellogg to inculcate his eugenic ideas throughout the nation. As time went on, he grew into more of a hardliner, increasingly committed to

sterilization and segregation. Gradually he fell behind the times, do largely to a little thing cold World War two, coming face to face with Nazi ideology, which was inspired in large part by American eugenicists like Kellogg, led to a collapse in American support for eugenics. You see the Nazis doing Nazi ships saying the same thing American eugenicists are, And suddenly a lot of people are like, oh, you

know what, Wait, maybe this is bad. Wait a second, hey man, this you this you It looks like this ends with people in ovens reconsider something. Maybe if we just look around, our race is deteriorating and maybe there's a problem we need a solution to. I'm just saying, you know what I mean, seems like it inevitably leads there. Now. Harvey Kellogg was also a very old man by the upbreak of the war, but Nazism did not change his

opinions on eugenics whatsoever. He grew only more convinced that Christian civilization was at risk and that the white races were on the edge of genocide. He wrote in nineteen forty two that he believed God quote, working through eugenics and the marvelous germ plasm, which is like sperm, may save the race and even improve it. So he had faith that eventually people would figure out how to save the white race. Kellop was in the middle of planning capitalism.

He was in the middle of planning his fourth Race Betterment Conference set for June of nineteen forty two when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. The conference was canceled, and so too was John Harvey Kellogg his own life. He died on December in Battle Creek, Michigan. He died, of course, a virgin, despite being married for more than forty years. John Harvey Kellogg brag that he had never actually consummated his marriage. So if I had to pick one purely good thing about his life, I'd say at least he

didn't breed mm hmm, wow. True but fuck if he didn't completely funk up kids. Amazing, one of the worst people we've ever talked about. When is there, like, you know, some kind of reckoning do they just say, oh, it's it's actually named after his brother. You can go to any grocery store in the country and see his name all over the place. You know what I mean. I guess you can also think that his brother hated him, and he would have hated the fact that those are

now filled with sugars, So I guess that's good. Like John Harvey Kellogg would be horrifically disgusted by the fact that his legacy is now incredibly sugar like candy for children to eat in the morning and and mash surbation is through the roof. If masturbation is at an all time hot, if he thinks sleeping comfortably and eating spice, I'm gonna, you know what, tonight, I'm gonna eat the hottest fucking thing I can imagine masturbate on the most

comfortable bed. Yeah, all of you at home, come and curry. In order to really really fully shame Dr James Hart, break his break his undead spirit eats spice, come hard. That's a T shirt. There you go. You're welcome, snice, come hard exactly, this big middle finger to him. Can we put come on a T shirt, Sophie, that's a

loaded question? Yeah, loads, Uh, I feel like not. I think we do it, eat spice, come hard exactly and now and now because I think that's the next thing is come as an accepted thing on a shirt you are. That's how that's our little act rebellion against John Harvey Kellog.

If I had a time machine, top of my list now would be to get uh like to archive a bunch of Red Tube videos along with information and how many hundreds of millions of views that it gets in a year and just present those both like, hey, John, in the future, more people than exist on the world right now are masturbating on just this one website. Buddy, you lose that war. And I would bring a fucking

like a military foot locker filled with sex toys. Yeah yeah, just like, First of all, dude, this thing this is tenda. You ever heard of a tenda? All right? So this is from Japan and you might remember them from Pearl Harbor. So they got so this is some really sick technology. This is another one you can use your app. Hold on, I've even shown you the VR goggles yet, motherfucker. Like who knows. It's just this is a plastic butt that people make just to have sex with. You can buy it.

You can. There's two different stores that sell them within walking distance of my house. You can. And if you want to make a mold of your genitals and have it replicated mid millions of times like a fucking you know, like the Guttenberg Press. You know what people did with the Bible in your day, they do it with genitals

in the future. People are so horny John Harvey that when a boat got stuck in the Suez Canal, you you know the Suez Canal, it's do in your day, when a boat got stuck in it, people immediately turned the boat in the porn. Yeah, exactly, straight off the bat, John Harvey. That's how it works. Yeah. It's funny. When you search Kellogg's for the Wikipedia page, it's will Keith Kellogg, who which makes sense because he did steal the idea, But then they can't avoid in the first sentence that

it is his brother. John Harvey. Kellogg became blah blah blah blah blah. So yeah, what a fucking yeah, you know, it's like everything there's so many corporate like just like every fucking bank you know has had to deal in slave money, but everything bank at some point supported the nazis pretty Yeah, it's just what you know, like, this is where we're at that they can people like, I don't know, it's a want. Look, it's just a serial now.

But yeah, I mean in some ways you could you could say that Kelloggs is his legacy is less fucked up than the banks because there was a split over, like like the reason the Kellogg's company became what it is is his brother fucking hated him, right, so that's good. Yeah, Yeah, anyway, Yeah, we're what's what's JP Morgan? What's his? Uh? What's John Pierre Morgan's brother? Like, Oh, I don't know, but did you have a brother? Morgan Jr. Was a big part

of the fascist attempt to overthrow the business blotto. Yeah, what a time, what a time, good times we're heading And again you have a bunch of people, in their own way, found their own attempt to try and steer the whatever the fucking course was of this country based on what these fucked up ideas they had, uh, yikes, a lesson to be learned. Perhaps, Yeah, you know, Miles, I guess if I had one last request for our listeners.

I know a few of you were great artists. What we could really use is some just filthy John Harvey Kellogg themed pornography, just absolutely depraved. And by depraved, I mean him having missionary style sex with the woman he was married to for decades. It's him, it's him masturbating by candle light. Yeah, yeah, John Harvey Kellogg masturbating by candle light to I don't know, the crucible. What fucking bastards. You've done it again, Robert, you've done it again. How

you doing, Miles? How you doing? Sophie? I hate my life. This was a rough one, right, this was a real bad one. Yeah, I mean, but you know this is again, this is These are the things. I think that's that's the benefit of this show, you know, like, yeah, if you have to really look back and know how bad ship was truly to be able to us work, give yourself some context, you know what I mean, And to know like how people move and operate in the social

forces they used to justify and popularize their methods. Yep, and I I don't know. Some great news just on that front today for the first time, a gallop pole just reviewed us membership in a church, synagogue or mosque has fallen below Only scent of millennials belong to a church. And of course the drop in religious affiliation is directly correlated with the rise in support for same sex marriage, and one has to assume the rise and support for

master baiting. Yeah exactly where generation come? Yeah? Generation come. That's a t shirt John Harvey Kellogg masturbating to the Crucible by candle light with generation come right on. That's busy or just some dog tax generation. Let's make it happen people. All right, Well, Miles, you got any plug doubles man, just check out the podcast Daily's like Geist and also look, if if you want something that isn't tied to maybe the news and politics, check out the

other podcast four twenty Day Fiance. We're talking about ninety day Fiance. But you know, like hi, so yeah, just chill with Sophia Alexandra, you know, one of the one of your your fan favorites. Yeah, we we love Sophia. Um, I'm glad that it was you and not her on yet. Another horrible child abuse episode, because that would have been a war crime. Yeah, alright, well we're done with the episode. Go stare blankly into the setting sun and try not to think about all of the horrible things that John

Harvey Kellogg did in the name of medicine. Eat spice, come hard, Eat spice, come hard.