Part Three: America's First Fascist Governor - podcast episode cover

Part Three: America's First Fascist Governor

Oct 15, 20241 hr 6 min
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Episode description

Garrison and Robert return to discuss Eugene Talmadge’s takeover of state finances and his fight against the new deal.

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Transcript

Speaker 1

Also media.

Speaker 2

Oh, Sophie, one of these days, I'm gonna do that, and it's gonna sound like I'm doing another like a tonal shriek. But then I'm just gonna like jump right into the opening soundtrack from The Lion King, and you're gonna be fucking amazed.

Speaker 1

What's so wild is when you did that, I was immediately thinking of Lion King, like I think you're almost there.

Speaker 2

Were I was very very close. I was very close.

Speaker 3

I wasn't thinking the Lion King. I'll say it. I'm not going to be grit ced.

Speaker 2

You grew up with the bad Lion King, not the good one.

Speaker 3

That's not true. Fuck off.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I assume you were raised on the Donald Glover Lion King. What a mistake, What a horrible mistake.

Speaker 3

Why would you ever do another version? Garrison was not born last Thursday? What are we doing?

Speaker 2

I don't remember when the new Disney movies come out. I just know they have off putting cgi versions of all together for four years.

Speaker 3

It's terrible. Sound right, I think it doesn't sound Wronger, No, it's been four years. Sophie's well, yeah, slightly.

Speaker 2

I'm going to tell you right now, my mental health is going to plummet the day you're able to rent a car. It's going to be a disase.

Speaker 3

It's coming soon. It's coming soon.

Speaker 1

The the the Donald Glover Lion King predates predates us, because that was twenty nineteen.

Speaker 3

Okay, okay, all right, all right, all right, anyway, welcome to behind the Bastards. I guess we have this new cold open thing, which I'm still not super familiar with. But uh, it's pretty pretty chilly. So it's pretty chilly in here.

Speaker 2

It's pronounced chile Garrison, and it's it's correct. The difference between you know you you're yeah. Sorry, I don't have an additional bit beyond that, but I got you there, nailed it.

Speaker 3

I really set you up for that one.

Speaker 2

He really did. What are we talking about today, buddy?

Speaker 3

Oh? Just a normal guy from the nineteen thirties, seemed to Eugene Talmage.

Speaker 2

Hell yeah, let's get back into.

Speaker 3

It right where we left off. Jean had as little racism convention to try to oust FDR. Right, he has his eyes set on the presidency, and he was really.

Speaker 2

The only tactic for ousting FDR was it was racism.

Speaker 3

Yeah, ever shooting workers, Yeah, because everyone else loved him. They're like, well, he's not racist enough. Let's try that.

Speaker 2

Let's see if that works.

Speaker 3

The other pressing problem for Gene at this junction is that in the previous year, the state failed to secure an appropriation spill, so there's no way for the state's finances to work going into nineteen thirty six. And this is kind of Gene's main problem, especially after his little failed racism convention. So at this point we're kind of early in nineteen thirty six. The state does have money, it just has no legal process to divert or spend

that money. So in order to use the cash, Gene needs to convince the treasurer to sign checks on unappropriated funds, which is technically constitutional, but by I would say, creatively interpreting the law. Gene claimed that he could write check some money appropriated as far back to nineteen thirty three, using funds that were not paid in full. He also requested that various state departments hold on to their tax collections or just give them directly to Gene and fully

bypass the treasury. So this was his plan to kind of hold on to money. Now, Unfortunately for Gene, the treasurer had already begun receiving tax payments from the various state departments, and by February thirteenth, the state had begun to run out of operating funds. Now days later, Gene proclaimed the state would have the exact same appropriations bill as in nineteen thirty five, arguing that since the legislature already approved that budget, it was thus legal indefinitely, which

is not just not how state budgets work. Now, the Treasurer was of the opinion that this whole affair was veering on unconstitutionality.

Speaker 2

He was worried, Garrison, I need you to say that word again.

Speaker 3

Okay, all right, it's it's a long's there's a lot of syllables in here.

Speaker 2

Unconstitutional, unconstitutionality is unconstitutionality, Okay, okay, okay, unconstitutionality. That's probably a word.

Speaker 3

Yeah, it's mostly a word. It was, it was he was scared of his unconstitutional word. I'm pretty sure this is a word, Sophie. You've no.

Speaker 1

I'm so tired. I'm so tired.

Speaker 3

I can't it's a word. Unconstitutionality. That's a word.

Speaker 2

Robert and I are.

Speaker 3

Both so fucking tired.

Speaker 1

You can just tell.

Speaker 3

According to according to the Cornell Law Institute.

Speaker 2

So there you go.

Speaker 1

Shout out Cornell. My grandma went there. Now.

Speaker 3

The treasurer, a guy named George Hamilton, was also worried that Talmage might just try to personally seize all the states cash kept in banks around the state, possibly with millions falling falling into the direct control of Gene. So treasure Hamilton asked FDR to secure state bonds in federal vaults so that Gene couldn't legally access them, and FDR was apparently happy to make life harder for Eugene Talmage.

I'm going to quote from Gene's biography by William Anderson. Quote, the Treasurer carefully drilled his staff on what to do in the event he was thrown out of office. They were to remove all collateral bonds and cash from state vaults, set an eight hour timelock on the empty vault, and run for the Federal Reserve and the local banks where they were to deposit both cash and bonds. Speed was essential because of the closeness of the treasurers at the

Governor's office. Unquote. It's just like they were basically had their offices just across the hallway. We don't they have enough.

Speaker 2

You know what we don't have enough of in modern politics is capers. You know there is the capers. That's a caper.

Speaker 3

Yeah, there's some good capers in this episode, so uh speak. Speaking speaking of capers, I love bagels. Now, Talmidch wanted to test his own power by asking the school superintendent, a guy named M. D. Collins, and the asylum warden to put in requests for money, pressuring the treasurer to

write the checks. Now, the treasurer caught worded this ahead of time, and, not wanting to be caught denying funds to schools and mental patients, he contacted the superintendent ahead of time and made secret arrangements to send him into hiding, putting him up in putting him up in an Atlanta hotel. So, as expected, Jeane went looking for the superintendent and was quite pissed when he just couldn't find him anywhere in the city.

Speaker 2

Again, what happened to Caper's right? Why don't we do this anymore? All we got all we have now is like fascism and very disappointing. Governors want to I want a caper, Tim Walls, go steal the declaration of independence, you know, get out there.

Speaker 3

They didn't have like sell phoes, they didn't have like email. You couldn't send official requests digitally. You had to actually you had to actually find five physically.

Speaker 2

And then it was very easy to just put someone in a basement and gape them there.

Speaker 3

Yeah, just keep someone hiding in a hotel in downtown Atlanta and you just like can't find us.

Speaker 2

No, they might as well be on the fucking moon.

Speaker 3

Yeah. So, on February twentieth, as Gene was still looking for mister Collins, the Comptroller and the Treasurer publicly announced that they would not be signing checks for the governor, claiming his proclamation was invalids having a grandfather clause which avoided the old unspent appropriations, and declared this now a

constitutional battle. The press had basically all turned on Jeane at this point, tired from his antics, and an Atlanta Constitution headline read the Governor's legal attempt at dictatorship Now four years later.

Speaker 2

You got to have some respect for a title that tells it like it is.

Speaker 3

There's some this some pretty good like nineteen thirties headlines that we're going to get to today.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean journalists made a comfortable income and had like support staff and stuff back then. So yeah.

Speaker 3

Now, four days later, Jean wrote an executive order firing a comptroller Harrison and a treasurer Hamilton, and both of whom declared that they would have to be literally thrown out of office. I'm going to quote from Anderson again. Quote. This tactic was designed to make Gene look militaristic, a bully, a dictator who ruled not by law but by force. Since Jean's martial law order from September nineteen thirty four was still in effect, that's like a year and a

half later. He just had the state under marshal law for like a year and a half. He had the National Guard at his disposal. Upon hearing the men would not leave, he ordered the adjunct to General Lindley Camp, who had been waiting for this, to take a couple of plainclothes men and get Harrison out of his office. It was early in the morning. Camp was not a violent man. He asked Harrison politely but firmly, to leave. You're no longer comptroller, and you'll have to leave this office.

Camp said Harrison, and seated behind his desk looked disappointed that no armed force had shown up. He asked, where are the soldiers? Camp leaned long over the desk and drawled, I'm some soldiers. Harrison got up and incredible. Some soldiers is pretty good. There's not all all of.

Speaker 2

The riz in every single elected leader in the country right now doesn't add up to that line. I'm sorry, we just we just we don't have that kind of we don't have that kind of juice anymore.

Speaker 3

Oh, Treasurer Hamilton put up.

Speaker 1

Sophy say, it's the quietly getting up and leaving for me.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like, you can't respond to that. You just have to get up to leave.

Speaker 2

You've lost You've lost that engagement. It's time to just leave the room now.

Speaker 3

Hamilton, the treasurer, put up a bit more of a fight, at least according to Jean's assistant Henry Sperlin, who recounted the ordeal quote, I went in in fan Hamilton sitting at his desk. I told him he would have to leave his office at once. He pulled a large pistol out and placed it on the desk and said, I am my favorite negotiating tactic. It's good, he said, I am constitutionally elected to this office, and I have the means to protect it.

Speaker 2

You just convinced me to run for office, because man, that would be fun. That would feel good, That would feel good.

Speaker 3

Continuing from Spurlin quote, I turned around and went back across the hall to the Governor's office and told him that George had a big pistol on the desk and was refusing to leave. Jean blew up.

Speaker 2

Knowing the Times that was like a thirty eight.

Speaker 3

Jean blew up and started yelling for the adjunct to General at the top of his lungs, Lindley, Lenley, Lenley. About that time, the Adjunct General came walking through the door and said, to keep quiet, Governor. I heard you all the way across the street.

Speaker 1

So fine.

Speaker 3

So the actric General, along with some some soldiers, went into Hamilton's office and literally picked him up out of his chair, and while being carried out at his office, Hamilton yelled to his assistants who were running around with the last of the Treasury's bonds in cash.

Speaker 1

Wow.

Speaker 3

Anderson says that that the guardsman just.

Speaker 2

The wrong turn in this country.

Speaker 3

We took, we took a wrong turn in this country.

Speaker 2

So much more exciting. We used to do it, right, That's a democracy you can be proud of. Right, then you're reading about.

Speaker 3

Yeah oh yeah. Now. Anderson says that the guardsman brought his assistants were just like running from the capitol in fear, when in actuality, they were taking the last of the

state's money to be deposited in FDR's federal vaults. So after Hamilton was read from the Capitol, he contacted the bank telling him that he was still in fact the legal treasurer and instructed them to not pay out any money and told the post office to not deliver any mail directed to the Treasurer to Jean's new replacement, a guy named Toby Daniel, and the post office complied with this. I guess people justked Hamilton. I'm Nico from Maerson here. Quote.

It had been a long and busy day in the state government, a day which ended in total confusion about who controlled what. Hamilton was seen just before dark attacking his nameplate and title on a door across town as Jane prepared to move on the state vaults. Unquote. I dislike that Treasurer. Hamilton just set up his own like fake office across town be like, you know, I'm obviously still the treasurer. I'm gonna make myself my own office.

So the next day, Jean's new treasurer, Toby Daniel, went to the vaults and he found them sealed shut with this eight hour time lock. Jane was never known as a patient man, so he ordered locksmith's to cut open this safe with gas torches. As soldier stood. Guard men cut open the vaults to find nothing. They were complete. That's completely empty. Oh that's fun. That's that's a good God. Damn,

it's a good image. Yeah, Eugene talented with a cigar and some soldiers looking at people cut open a vaults gas torches. Do it find nothing? Yeah? No, It's like it's a fantastic caper. So Gene was extremely upset at this, and he said, seemed.

Speaker 2

Like the kind of guy who would take that in the spirit of good fair play.

Speaker 3

No, no, no. He sent Toby Daniel to the Fulton National Bank to cash out one hundred grand, but the bank refused to honor the check. Every sequence of events left Gene just getting more and more pissed. He wrote an angry letters to bank president, telling him that the bank would have to now pay seven percent interest on this state's nine hundred thousand dollars, and if they didn't want to deliver cash to Toby Daniel, the governor's executive assistant,

would be authorized to accept the state's money. The bank continued to refuse to hand over any cash, saying that it was the quote unquote unanimous decision of the council of all the clearinghouse banks that they could not feel entirely safe until there had been some judicial determination over the question of the state's financial situation. To quote Anderson

here quote Hamilton's strategy had worked. Gene exploded in anger, turning his fury erroneously on the legislature and the federal government. He said a clique in the House of Representatives had hatched a plot a year earlier in Washington, trying to force the state to call an extra session to drain off money and force Jane to raise taxes. He said

the mess was deliberately brought on by the new Deal unquote. Now, the Georgia Constitution required that the treasurer be bonded before assuming office, but no local bonding company wanted to be anywhere near this shit show. But Jean's friend John Whitley, found an insurance company all the way in Fort's Scott, Kansas that would bond Toby Daniel for three hundred thousand dollars.

Jean asked the highway board chairman, a guy named mister Wilbur, to put up sixty five thousand, which he quite reluctantly agreed to, and John Whitley covered the rest. Jean's lstreak continued when it was learned just days later that seventeen million dollars in federal road funds were being held because Jeans spent three million dollars of this money on other state expenses, which not allowed. Not cool. You can't do that.

Speaker 2

I mean, I feel like you should be able to do whatever you can get away with as the governor, right, like that ought to be the rule. It's like cheating at poker. Right, as long as they don't catch you in the act, you're good.

Speaker 3

The problem is that that they is that they always caught him. That was the problem.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that is an issue.

Speaker 3

And George Hamilton at this point was promising to fight to the last to see that the law shell rule and not a tyrannical despot who has gone mad with egotism Now, According to the Atlanta Journal, thirty six out of forty four state papers were now against Talmage, with the Gainesville Eagle writing he has out heralded Herod in a despotic dictatorial action that transcends the throttling of Louisiana

by Huey Long. Anderson writes. A survey of newspapers from across the state reflected the shock and repulsion many had felt for this latest example of Talmadge enforcing his will. The Cordell Dispatch worried he's gonna be worse than Hitler or Mussolini, which which isn't true.

Speaker 2

That's not that this is this is nineteen thirty gotta get At this point in twenty twenty four, we could confidently say not as bad as either of those kids.

Speaker 3

Cornell Dispatch debugged, Sorry, your prediction was wrong.

Speaker 2

It would have been pretty funny if, like his his term had ended with the United States Marines occupying Atlanta, like the just bombing it to craters.

Speaker 3

Yeah, so that that would has that would has been debunked there. The nineteen thirty six prediction did did not come to pass.

Speaker 2

That's a tragic situation.

Speaker 3

The Columbias Inquirer wrote that he is a quote paper machet dictator, a sort of amusing political clown who slipped into the governor's office during the storm of the depression, which is I would say is more accurate. The Brunswick News asked how long Georgia would have to be quote misruled by this crazy governor who suffers hallucinations of grandeur

and imaginary greatness. Gene's answer to all of that was that this was a political plot to keep him off the campaign trail, saying, this invasion of states rights can hold me in Georgia, but the New Deal is going to be defeated this year. So at this point, Roosevelt's and supporters were trying to get the state Democratic Chairman, Hugh Howell to call for a presidential primary to further embarrass Gene during the financial crisis and add to the

pressure facing Talmage. But Howell and Talmadge knew what was up and didn't take the bait, especially since Roosevelt was absolutely dominating Talmage in even like the most like rule polls. He was not very popular during this whole financial crisis. On the first of March, the third month into this crisis. Gene met with all the banks and asked for the state's money to be released, which they again denied. Anderson notes, quote it was the kind of request he did not

like to make, particularly since they refused him. He stormed out, saying he would scorch the bankers. His plan was to write checks to pay for school bills. If the bankers refused to honor them, public pressure would be directed away from Gene. It didn't work, unquote, so in response to this, Gene quote unquote fired the banks, and the bank's attorney asked the Fulton Superior Court to rule on which treasurer

could legally sign checks. Gene filed a lawsuit with the Post Office for not delivering the Treasurer's mail to Daniel, and Daniel filed a lawsuit in a lower court against Hamilton and hopes that would force him to reveal where the collateral bonds were being kept, as still nobody could find where they were. So at this point, you like all of the business leaders for calling for a special

legislative session to end this crisis. The editor of the Constitution of the newspaper privately promised a glowing editorial of Gene if he called for a special session to pass an appropriations bill, prompting other papers to do the same, with a Gene then emerging from this crisis as a hero. But the editor warned that if Gene refused to call a session, the newspaper would do everything in its power to get him impeached the majority of the state Senate signification.

Speaker 2

Imagine a newspaper having any juice at all in an election at this point the constitution in simple period of time.

Speaker 3

At this point like this, this specific paper held a great deal of power in the state.

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, no, no, I mean that used to be. There were a lot of papers that were powered both like regionally and in the cut. Like, it's just we're in a completely different media situation now.

Speaker 3

Nowadays the AJAC is still like an influential paper in like city and state politics in Georgia, but it's not what it was and then I.

Speaker 2

Thirties, No one you would not have I mean, it'd be fascinating to see someone try, but like an editor go out and say, like, we will write you a great editorial if you if you carry out this policy, right.

Speaker 3

But if you don't, we're gonna get too beached.

Speaker 2

Yeah, like that's just a completely different planet in terms of print media influence.

Speaker 3

At this point, i'm majority of the Senate sign a petition pleading for a special session, but Gene claimed that there was no emergency, thus no reason to call for a special session, and on March fourteenth, the court ruled that neither Hamilton nor Daniel could withdraw money that had not been appropriated, but did not yet rule on which

man was the legal treasurer. When Gene tried to get checks written on oil tax money, a judge legally prohibited money from being paid out to the new comptroller, and on March eighteenth, the oil companies threatened to withhold their tax payments until Gene removed their monetary liability to quote Anderson quote. The next day, Hamilton asked the courts to a judge him as trusure, and the state's labor leaders saw an injunction against Daniel. On March twenty third, the

state revenue commissioner quit. By the end of that week, Jeane had bought radio time to defend his actions and explain his reasons for fighting FDR. On air, he said he was no dictator, but that he had no alternative but to run the state's finances in order to feed the sick and the insane. Unquote, he's not bad at spin.

Speaker 2

You knownforunate nothing. I think that probably would work today on a disappointing number of the people.

Speaker 3

Yeah, people are very susceptible to dictators, as I'm sure everyone who's been looking at politics the past eight years is well aware. The financial crisis neared its end starting April eleventh, when four out of the six judges overseeing the case disqualified themselves by having affiliations with the banks. Now, this was Jane's saving grace, as it was his legal duty to replace the judges, so he just picked four of his friends, and a month later, the judges formally

ruled in Gene's favor five to one. The banks released the money, Hamilton returned the collateral bonds hidden in the federal vaults, and the flow of federal highway funds went back to the state. Talmadge supporters were a static. His secretary, Carlton Mobley later said, quote, the man was unbelievable. We used to all worry like hell when he'd get himself into these situations. There would seem no possible way he could come out on top and then at the darkest

moment he would land on his feet unquote. So that that that is how Gene navigated this little, this little financial crisis and some and somehow came out on top. Do you know what also likes topping?

Speaker 2

Well, Garrison, whoa, whoa. I'm gonna know, I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna correct you there, because when Sophie and I started this podcast, you know, we had big story session. We're working out what we were going to accept from advertisers, and I remember it was like hour eight or nine.

You know, We're both sitting across the big table at the office and we both turn at the same time and said, only bottoms, you know, And that's been our guiding principle in terms of advertisers from the beginning here. You know, that's that's that's really our only standard. We'll take X on mobile, clear bottom. We wouldn't take British petroleum, that's a top.

Speaker 1

Obviously, we wouldn't take X on mobile.

Speaker 2

We would take X on. We wouldn't send us some money.

Speaker 1

Guys, they tried, that's a switch.

Speaker 2

Chevron's a clear switch. We're not taking them, Chevron asked us.

Speaker 1

Both it was both.

Speaker 3

It was both.

Speaker 1

We've gotten, but we've gotten We've gotten requests from both to do like sustainability campaigns for both those guys.

Speaker 2

Yes, we do turn down money people. Yeah, not often, but we do.

Speaker 3

Yeah. No, Okay, we are so back, man, George. George is doing great right now. We just had a massive chemical fire, which makes my throat feel terrible, and I still have to I still have to read through three thousand words.

Speaker 2

I made this the other day. But you're really a Southerner when the town you live in has been blanketed and poisoned because a chemical factory has exploded because it got bought by a private equity company who then gutted the operations staff and completely fucked all of the safety procedures.

Speaker 3

The air is terrible.

Speaker 2

I lived in West and it was the same thing where like they had a fire they had not like they were reliant upon like a volunteer firefighting team that had not been properly trained in chemical fires. They put water on said fire, and it exploded and wiped out the whole fire department.

Speaker 3

Yeah, Georgia is strong right now. We're really hanging in there. Case.

Speaker 2

No, I was looking at the map of where all of the chlorine gas is going to be tomorrow has his lofts end down?

Speaker 3

It sucks, It sucks. I woke up today with my throat being on fire. Now. Jean was still eyeing up an office in Washington as he couldn't run a third consecutive term as governor, But as Gene observed just near total widespread support for FDR, he got too afraid to directly challenge the man and backed down. As a backup plan, Jene was considering a run as George's favorite son to stoke a brokered convention, but only if Roosevelt did poorly

in the primary. But Roosevelt ran completely unopposed in the primary and basically won the presidency by default, ending Jane's presidential ambitions. To quote Anderson here, what seemed like a year long camouflaged chase after the presidency came to a sputtering end. On Wednesday, June seventeenth, the State Executive Committee meant to choose Roosevelt delegates for the national Convention and

to witness the political death of Gene Talmadge. Not to be upstaged, the corpse came striding briskly through the lobby, grinning broadly shaken hands and slapping backs as he moved through the crowded lobby. One man refused to shake his hand, saying sullenly he didn't want to meet any new acquaintances that day. The explosive Talmage called the refusal and insult

and order the man to remove his glasses. Jean's instant theory betrayed his real feelings over The meeting, mainly ensued between the man and Jean's entourage, scattering people over the lobby. Gene was pushed away from the scuffling, and it ended quickly. Unquote that's sad. A good old, good old fashioned state democratic fist fight. Love to see it.

Speaker 2

We again, we need it. Like if the if the VP debate last night had involved a fist fight for one thing, I do think Walls would have very clearly won that.

Speaker 3

He would have want ye.

Speaker 2

Ja d Vance obviously probably is an endurance edge. He's much younger man. But jd Vance, there's no way he's ever been hit in the face. He should have been anyway. I I I support this.

Speaker 3

We need to, we need to return now. With the presidency beyond Jean's grasp, he decided to challenge the popular Richard Russell for his seat in the US Senate. Meanwhile, the long term Chalmage loyalist Hugh Howell was hoping to

succeed Gen as governor. Once Gan announced his run for the Senate, Howell made statements in the press talking about how he could continue Jeane's legacy and was dropping hints for Gene to endorseh but Gene eventually broke the news that he was instead backing his personal friend Charles RedWine, and Howell was quite upset that Gene was unwilling to return any political favors and was caught in a weird place since Howell still wished to kind of remain in

the Talmadge orbit, but in doing so it was inhibiting his progress as a politician. More on him later now.

Jane threw another one of his big like kickoff barbecue rallies in McRae on July fourth, where he announced red Wine for governor and his run for the Senate, unveiling his platform to quote unquote protected Georgia, which included outlawing a national debt, cutting the federal budget to under a billion dollars, removing members of the cabinet who try to change our form of government, which I think is like an anti communist thing.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it may have something to do too with like voting rights.

Speaker 3

Yes, yes, yeah, yes, because that becomes a big thing later on when the federal government was pushing for no more white only primaries, and he also pushed for like, you know, other like lasi faire capitalist policies. Now, Jean finished this rally by symbolically passing the governor's torch by gifting RedWine his own trademark red suspenders to quote andrewsand Quote, though suspicious that Talmadge had become a living political party, were interested to see if the voter loyalty could now

be so manipulated. Could Jean project his authority onto others unquote? Now this is a question I've certainly had regarding like what will happen to the Republicans in twenty twenty eight, Like depending on how this next election goes, Like how are they going to survive up like a post Trump party? Will Trump be able to pass his authority onto someone else or will they go in a completely new direction.

That's certainly been a question on my mind. Now this this same day, State senator and KKK member Ed Rivers announced his candidacy for governor, running on the most liberal platform in the state's history, which he called the Little New Deal. So despite being in some ways economically progressive for white people, he was like all these guys just

insanely racist. Gene decided just to do one speech a week while Russell mounted an intense statewide campaign to keep his Senate seat away from Governor Talmach, branding Gene as a trader to the Democratic Party for his previous like you know racism convention and all of his appeals against FDR. Now, this campaign was essentially Gene against both the state and the National Democratic Parties. Jean had no campaign manager, he had no headquarters, and was opposing both both the state

and the National Party. He was set to make a campaign stop in Monroe, Georgia, the site of the strikes last year that Jean suppressed with concentration camps and the National Guard. The union workers were planning to make Gene know just how welcome he was with a gold old fashioned egg throw in which god we should we should bring back now word a head.

Speaker 2

In Australia, they've been doing it, at least they were for a while.

Speaker 3

Yes, there's been some in the UK as well, but I guess like milkshaking has kind of become the new egg throwing.

Speaker 2

Yeah yeah, I mean it did for a while. I feel like that stopped bringing all the boys to the yard, yeah a while ago.

Speaker 3

Sad.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's tragedy.

Speaker 3

Now, word of this made its way to made its way to Gene and the National Guard arrived early to secure the area. The rumor was that one hundred and twenty five armed men came down from Atlanta, with locals witnessing car loads of strangers arriving carrying pistols. Now, Lindley Camp denied that the guardsmen were sent, saying that it was actually local boys armed from the area who volunteered

to keep the peace. But the police chief claimed otherwise and saying that they were in fact guardsmen from Atlanta. Whatever the case. To the union workers, governor Challemage had once again invaded their town with armed goons to do his bidding. Like this level of like security for a politician was uncommon for the time. It's kind of more normalized now, but back then this was like really odd.

Speaker 2

It is interesting the degree to which Americans had to be taught that you could shoot your politicians. Like, we learned that very rapidly, and then things had to change.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I mean, wasn't if I remember correctly, wasn't Huey Long Shot? I think long was shot and they might have been.

Speaker 2

He might have had two attempts on him, but yeah, I think he was. I think he survived at least one. Let's double check that though.

Speaker 3

Yeah, no, he was. He was assassinated. Yeah, so like and like for Jane. Because of how much this security was uncommon for the time, it certainly did damage his reputation as like a wanna be military dictator, although kind of now we are very used to this type of security. During during the Senate race, the recently promoted editor at the Constitution, a guy named Ralph McGill who later became

a prominent anti segregationist journalist. He began writing about Jene's relationship with John Whitley, the highway construction guy, and insinuated some kind of ethical financial arrangement between the two regarding

highway construction contracts. Now twice that summer, John Whitley found McGill at campaign events and brutally beat him to a bloody pulp while threatening to kill the man if he didn't stop writing about him, and Gene just kicking McGill on the ground, dragging his body around in the dirt and smashing his head into hard columns in a hotel lobby. It was it was pretty it was pretty grisly stuff to quote Whitley quote, I beat the lion bastard until I got tired. I'd rest, then beat him some more

until he was bleeding good. Then I told him McGill, next time I see you, I'm gonna have a pistol and I'm going to kill the hell out of you quote, which you could just it's it's good to know that, Auntie, that anti journalist violence does does go back far.

Speaker 2

We really, I mean, you're not really doing your job as a journalist if if people aren't saying that kind of thing about you occasionally.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Anderson writes that McGill wasn't too badly hurt in the kerfuffles, but he was energy to quote unquote returned to his typewriter with a vengeance unquote, which yeah, that yeah, that makes sense, returned to his typewriter with a vengeance.

This race, Gene was kind of forced into playing political defense for one of the first times in his career, Russell would go would go after Jane for using racism to distract from his otherwise empty politics, saying, when a politician runs out of arguments, knows that in the minds of the people, he is convicted of pure custness in keeping the old people of Georgia from getting their pensions, then he comes hollerin N word, N word, N word.

Gene responded by saying, quote, you hear false interpretations in my service to you. Russell says, I go around yell and N word. Well, I don't believe in sending Negroes down here to rule over the white people, which he's not really refuting what Russell is saying.

Speaker 2

No, no, you are.

Speaker 3

You are not killing those rumors like it's it's again, this is everyone racist. At this time, Russell was also a raging racist. He was a segregationist right like. He just didn't like how Gene was kind of not very classy about it. Jane was so like like open and like brash. Russell was also a racist guy, but he wanted politics to be something other than just blaming black people for everything like that. That is where the bar

was at this point. Now in August, Senior Sonator George Walter joined the Russell campaign in an effort to finally beat Talmadge and the background politics he represented. By mid August, Hugh Howell was refusing to campaign with Jean, and one of the first to join team Talmadge, lamar Udeau from McRae had become an advisor to Ed Rivers in the governor's race. So Jane was bleeding support and losing allies. Now that the two candidates agreed to some kind of

back to back speech showdown. On August twenty sixth thirty high school girls escorted Russell onto stage in parody of Jean's platoon of armed guards. Anderson writes, quote, Russell thought he already saw the tide turning when farmers began taking off their red suspenders at his speeches and symbolically laying

them at his feet. Unquote, Russell addressed Talmage as old Republican gene and this is where we start to really see like this is the beginning of the Southern Democratic Party stopping being Democrats, right like like FDR's forced liberalization, and people like Talmage, these kind of old demagogues who are like Democratic Party men are becoming more like the

northern conservative Republicans. So like, I think Eugene Talent, which is kind of like the is one of the last of these like real like southern Democrats, and a lot of his politics very clearly paved the way for the Democratic Party to kind of split away and do this like kind of fabled like swap right where most of these kind of supporters would would later in like ten twenty years be voting Republican even though they forever had always been had always been Democrats.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yep, I mean this is this is the beginning of I don't know if it's the end, but it's the beginning of our current hell right, this is where it all starts, and it all starts because people were like, what if black folks got to enjoy some of the benefits of the social safety net that we're constructing in this country Old Republican Gene yep. So Russell came with a list of questions that he demanded Gene answer when

it was his turn to take the stage. Base They were mostly about like how his programs would actually help people and how he would get money to help farmers with his ultra conservative economic plans. But upon taking the stage, Gene immediately discarded these questions, saying, quote, it would take a Philadelphia lawyer all day to answer them quote, which I think is an amusing old timing remark. Now, the Russell staff took this day as a victory for their candidate,

and Gene later actually agreed. On the second to last day of the race, a massive fistfight broke out at his rally in Dalton, Georgia. From the podium, Gene tried to stop people from breaking up the fight, saying, don't pay any attention to them. The Talmadge boys can whip them, let them fight it out. About half their crowd was listening to Gene's speech, the other half were in this

ongoing brawl. The local deputy sheriff was severely beaten by five of Jean's National guardsmen and then had all of them arrested. We really loved to see cop On caught violence. At the end of his speech, the open melee was still raging on, and Governor Talmadge quickly left town. Come election day, Gene lost in a massive landslide, one of the biggest in the state's history. Jean carried only sixteen counties to Russell's one hundred and forty three and was

beat two to one in the popular vote. The governor's race had very similar results, with the New Deal candidate Ed Rivers beating Talmadge Stooge red Wine by over one hundred thousand votes. Longtime Talmage man Tom Linder lost his race for Agricultural Commissioner, and George Hamilton the Treasurer, got his revenge by just utterly destroying Toby Daniel in the election that Daniel even lost his street that he lived

on in Lagrange, according to William Anderson. To quote Anderson, it had come to be said that Gene Talmadge had a guaranteed vote of one hundred thousand, and that statement rang true to one hundred thousand Georgians. Gene Talmadge was almost a deity. His hold was hypnotic and unshakable on

this core constituency. But while his stand against the New Deal did not affect the vote of his own constituency, it lost the election because of the fact that it had on the swing vote, though the bifactional electorate either for or against Gene seemed stronger than ever in undecided one hundred thousand or so votes, swung the election. This swing group was not polarized for or against Gene, and these voters cannot be placed in a particular group that

had a predictable behavior. Most of them were simply convinced that the new deal was helping them more than herding them. Another influential factor was the high voter turnout to the largest in Georgious history. Jane drew from a hardcore group, and the numbers did not sluctuate much above one hundred and forty thousand. The wealthy and the very poor had once again combined for Gene, but he had lost the labor vote, which was growing, and also much of the

middle class unquote. I find this kind of political breakdown to be quite interesting both how even still we find conservatives are able to get both the ultra wealthy and the ultra poor to vote for them in a counterintuitive way, and how Gene had this like very hardcore group of supporters that viewed him as like a god and would vote for him regardless of like anything. But he did

lose in the swing vote. Now, as for the governor's race, Gene was able to pass off his hardcore supporters to red Wine, getting over one hundred and twenty thousand of these votes, but he completely failed to attract any of the one hundred thousand anti Talented voters and was unable to move any of the importan swing voters to red Wine on his anti New Deal Talmadge inspired platform. Jean's grip on the state Democratic Party was slipping, and he

had begun to lose to the New Deal. So, for the first time in over ten years, in nineteen thirty seven, Jean was out of a government job. He now spent his time building his cattle herd, doing little speaking engagements, and using his newspaper The Statesman to project his message

across Georgia. As he planned his next move, his eyes were still set on the Senate, but this time on the even more respected Senior Senator Walter George Anderson writes, those who questioned Jane's good judgment in thirty six questioned his sanity in nineteen thirty eight. Basically, George was like

the archetypal respected elder statesman. Going against him was like crazy. Luckily, Jean brought his twenty five year old son, Hermann Talmadge to serve as campaign manager, who actually did grow to be a pretty good political navigator. His new nineteen thirty eight platform differed from his previous bouts against the New Deal.

Instead of using vague nostalgic rhetoric pointing towards the old ways, this time Jeane sought to address the consequences of the New Deal as he saw them, attack the new big institutions,

and uplift the little guy. He called for a migration back to farms and promised to stop a government waste by using fedral relief money to buy land to give to citizens willing to farm it, and to convert the civilian conservation camps into vocational education campuses to provide a practical job oriented training in contrast to the frivolous liberal universities,

another conservative mainstay. His campaign speeches this year were described as like increasingly protectionist, isolationist, nationalist, and much more populist. We're getting closer to the full breakout of World War two, and Gene was pretty pretty firmly like an isolationist and a nationalist. Yeah, I'm not surprised to hear that.

Speaker 4

I mean, yep, yeah, it is entirely unsurprising. Yeah to town, which tried to frame Senator George as a trader to small farmers, particularly because of his support of coconut milk. That was one of the main ways he attacked George as betraying as betraying US dairy farmers. Now Gene wasn't

the only guy targeting Senator George, though. FDR was increasingly beefing with the southern wing of the party, and by the late nineteen thirties he sought to unseat some of the old Guard from the Senate that were inhibiting progress. Senator George was a particularly influential member of this group,

and so FDR targeted him for removal. Not many Georgia Democrats wanted to go up against the popular Senator, but the Roosevelt Dems finally settled on a Russell's nineteen thirty four campaign manager, a man named Lawrence Camp, to take

on George. FDR made this really confusing public appearance with Senator George in early August, where Roosevelt delivered a quite polite attack on his personal friend George, calling him a fake liberal and dismissed Talmage as no kind of real concern, and then endorsed Lawrence Camp.

Speaker 2

FDR, we don't make him like that anymore.

Speaker 3

No you invite your friend to like a campaign event, and then you just suspended the day.

Speaker 2

Attacked shit talk him, just just rat fuck him.

Speaker 3

He's really good.

Speaker 2

FDR was maybe our most effective rat fucker president. He really knew how to rat a man.

Speaker 3

He didn't care. He don't care.

Speaker 2

You know, that's the benefit of dying of polio is you don't give a round fuck.

Speaker 3

Like Gane tried to reprogize this speech to discredit George and brushed aside Camp as like a coattail writer and an un serious candidate. Now Roosevelt try to just We're worried that his campaign against George might give Talmage the election, but that outcome didn't really concern FDR. He thought that even if Talmadge got in the Senate, Jen would just make a fool out of himself. The problem with George was that he was influential. If he went a certain way,

forty other senators would follow suit. Tal Imridge, on the other hand, was unlikely to attract followers in the Senate, and Jane was quite happy with what he saw as liberal infighting and became even more certain that it would lead to his victory in the county unit vote. With the liberal vote being split now three ways, as long as his hardcore of one hundred thousand supporters went out to vote, he saw no way for him to lose.

I'm going to quote from Anderson here on this kind of anecdote about what the southern voter was thinking about going into the nineteen thirty eight election. Quote one old offensive sitter in Warm Springs told a reporter he was voting for Senator Talmadge, Governor Rivers, and President Roosevelt. Quote Talmidg is promising forty acres of land, Rivers promises to exempt it from taxation, and Roosevelt will rent it from us. Why not vote for all of them and sit on

the porch and collect a steady income unquote. Okay, so they voting very It's like they're totally fine voting for conservative talentage and progressive FDR. Like that's that's totally fine, And the policies can actually work in conjunction just to help these like guys eating up all the slant. Do you know what I enjoy eating up?

Speaker 2

Robert well Garrison, I've i've i've I've heard some rumors, but I don't like that.

Speaker 3

I don't like that absolutely not. Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1

Remember remember that meal we had during the DNC where there was a literal metal screw in your food?

Speaker 3

I remember that?

Speaker 2

Yes? Do you remember that riot where afterwards I got us like two hundred dollars worth of Popeyes because we were all so depressed.

Speaker 3

I think it happened a few times. We had a lot of really late night Chinese food and a lot of Top Eyes. Oh, the good old days, the good old.

Speaker 1

Turber Gears likes to eat foods with literal meneral screws in them, and Popeyes got it.

Speaker 3

And of course these products and services.

Speaker 2

We drinks over that screw. That was great.

Speaker 3

We did get a lot of free drinks over that screw. They were really really worrying. Someone was like attacking, attacking these DNC journalists. Oh God, okay, we are so back. Come election day, early results gave Talmadge a small lead. Stop the count, Stop the count, But Jean Jean's initial celebration was premature because the next day after after election Day, it was clear that Walter George actually beat Jeane by forty thousand votes. Urban migration was affecting Jean's ability to

win elections. Some of the county races were quite close, and a difference of just over two hundred vot in certain counties would have given Talmage the election under the county unit system, but Gene wasn't going to back down this time. He refused to concede the election and announced he would contest the vote. Stop this deal, Gene filed complaints with the Democratic Committee in thirty four counties, claiming a recount would qute unquote clearly give me the election

to quote Anderson. The Talmage office had been literally flooded with phone calls and letters complaining of voting irregularities. Many were sworn affidavits. People claimed that dead people, children, and non residents had voted for George, payoffs, had payoffs had been made, counting falsified, and ballots pre marked unquote. Time is a flat circle.

Speaker 2

Yeah yeah, so nothing does change?

Speaker 3

Yeah, no, absolutely not. As a backup plan, Gene hatched another scheme to overrule the county unit election by making enough of a big fuss over the recounts and voting irregularities. Jene hopes to pressure the domnatorial candidates, Hugh Howell and Ed Rivers into having their delegates name Talmadge Senator at the October convention using this little piece of party law.

This was an odd strategy, considering that Gene was not currently in the good graces of either man, but he was getting desperate, and when it became clear that crucial counties were going to reject his complaints, Jen began sending letters to friends in the counties asking for assistance. One such letter read, get all the evidence of regularities in the election that you can. If you can get any evidence of money being used, get this in AFFI David form.

We will then appeal it to the convention in Macon on October fifth. Now, the counties did not like having their elections questioned. Gene's accusations of misconduct were near unanimously rejected, and counties billed him for the trouble. At he cost, which is also a good thing. We don't see as much anymore, being like you made us do all this extra work here, We'll just send you a bill. His appeal to the State Executive Committee was also rejected in

a sixty one to four vote. Gene responded to the ruling by saying, the very resistance of the State Executive Committee to recount bears out our contentions that something was wrong. Sure, sure, buddy, of course. Yeah. As his grasps for power continued to fail, Jean became increasingly angry and desperate. He called on his supporters to march on the Macon Convention to demand that Jane's accusations be heard. He tried to planet Jasis.

Speaker 2

Man, Really, there is nothing new under the sun. I mean, one of the heartbreakers here is I had thought Trump was a little more original than he really is. And you know, it just hate. It sucks when you find out your heroes are aren't Robert Robert.

Speaker 3

You know that just hurts.

Speaker 2

It hurts.

Speaker 3

The night before the convention, some friends of Jean staged an intervention in his hotel, begging him to a admit that he lost. But wow, how the times a fucking changed. But supporters crashed the intervention to convince Jane to keep fighting, which he did. He immediately doubled down. He sent Tom Linder to tell Hugh Howell that if he released his delegates to Gene, Gene would help him win the nineteen

forty governor's race. Now, Howell was still mad that Jean had turned his back on him in the last election, and it was now Howell that refused to help Jeane. The convention came, Gene and his cronies were going around trying to course a roll call decision on Jeene's election denial. Governor Ed Rivers actually allowed this to happen, confident that the result would serve Gene one final humiliation, and he was correct. Jane's call for a reconsideration of the vote

was firmly shut down. Jane went into a tantrum, telling supporters that it was Hugh Howell's fault that they had failed at the convention, saying, quote, we had stacks of evidence at the making convention, but they refused to even look at it. The great trouble there was that Hugh Powell sold out the talent which people and appoint and appointed George men as delegates unquote again just flat circle shit. We had, we had all, we had, all this evidence.

They refused to look at it. It's been stolen, et cetera, et cetera. Basically, what happened here was that Jean's disinterest and periodic disrespect of the machinery of party politics, as well as like state and county power structures, finally began to damage him. Politically, what once helped to get him into power was now self sabotaging his ability to hold

onto power and effectively navigate party politics. So after his second Senate defeat in a row, Jean wished to return to his comfort zone and retake the governor's office in nineteen thirty nine. Gene kept relatively low profile, but he would still travel around the state to speak at local clubs and organizations, nothing too notable, but ensured that he remained a presence to his core base at like rural

barbecues and church socials. Meanwhile, a loose organization of Jeane's political allies spent the year quietly lobbying courthouse gangs and promoting Jane as governor across the state. Ed Rivers couldn't seek reelection, so Jane's biggest competition was his friend turned rival, Hugh Howell, who tried to run for a third time. I'm going to quot from Anderson again quote. A number of factors made the return of Talmage possible. One was the scandalous debts run up by Rivers the state was

almost bankrupt. Another was the shadow of a world war and the anxieties that fear produced a crisis was created. There was a need for strength, a desire for the simple solution in a complex and confusing world. A future that no one wanted made the past a psychological crutch. Gene Talmadge, the iron man of action, would once again ride on to the political stage to save the day. He saw no way he could lose. He had in two elections been recognized as a man disjointed from the times.

That fact that had been his strength in earlier races but became his weakness, now again would be his strength. Unsettled times had thrown the people out of sea depth. With war threatening, they began to look for that well worn path. They dug back in their past and found the certainty they had been seeking. Old Gene. He was their crutch in a way, only this time it was war and needless bankruptcy that demanded an aura of toughness.

Now I find this quote to be one of the more like unsettling in how it kind of shows how the backwardness can like flip flop, like how things that are your strength can become your weakness, and then as times get tougher, that can be your strength again. And considering the current economic situation, in this country as well as raging wars in the Middle East. It does not leave me with tons of comfort.

Speaker 2

No, I mean, if you're reading history right, it never should. Yeah, but yeah, that is a particularly because you're never safe in a democracy, right. The upside is you have a degree of agency over the political system, but you are always waiting for the worm to turn in such a way that the very worst people are empowered and it

will always happen. Yeah, never, there's no getting away from it, Like, there's no Somebody made a post on the subburn at the other day where they were like, is it just are we just going to every four years be worried about becoming a dictatorship? And like, yeah, bro it feels so to homie, that's how that's that's how it is.

Speaker 3

Speak speaking of dictator some of Jeene's advisors wanted him to give his opening campaign speech from above the crowd through his office window in Atlanta, but Jean thought this would make him look too much like Mussolini.

Speaker 2

You can, really it says a lot about the period of time that that was no longer a good thing because there was. Yeah, there were several years where they would have been like you should do it. It'll make you look like Mussolini.

Speaker 3

Yes, yeah, I mean you're like in nineteen forty now late, it's become a little cool date Like Jane likes Mussolidi. She just knows that it's not going to play well in this moment.

Speaker 2

So intead, instead, that's what I would have said, That's how I would have taken him down.

Speaker 3

Instead, Jane dawned his red suspenders and stood on a chair outside the Capitol to officially announce his campaign to an excited crowd of supporters. To draw up an interest in the campaign and demonstrate the return of like personality theatrical politics, the Talmage team wrote a song and turn it into a record that would play before every Talmage speech. I'm going to read some of the lyrics here that

that are that are in this book. And Apple Jesus Christies are so bad, and Apple for the teacher is very fine, indeed, but sad to state, and apple is not all the teachers need, the needless of state employees and the government so wild had a very marked effect on every Georgia child. Unfortunately, these are all of the lyrics I can find. But it's just a song about how big. How about how big a government is hurting children?

And this saw everyone became sick of this song because this was now the only song I would play before all of the talentage speeches, just on a loop. This was the first. This was like the first ession of hell. Like usually before campaign speeches, they had like live music. They they just to have like you know, just some some like local band would like play some tunes. This now they were hooking up a record to like to like loudspeakers and it's blasting out hell bad bad. Now.

Jean's son, Herman Talmadge, was growing increasingly influential within the Talmadge machine and provided his father a newfound political savvy. Though Gene was reluctant at first, Hermann struck a deal with the Georgia New Deal Democrats for their backing in exchange for an ever so slightly more liberal Talmage platform focusing on education and the economy. The resulting platform was widely deemed the most like, legitimate and practical out of

Talmadge's whole career. To quote Anderson, a Talwich victory was so certain that the race took on a great deal of boredom. Fistfights at speeches a common occurrence, began getting as much press attention as the speeches themselves unquote. Kind of. The most emblematic day of the nineteen forty race was on July twenty seventh. All of the candidates held rallies

in Warm Springs. Gene didn't arrive on time, but his customs song blared over the loudspeakers on repeat, drowning out the other candidates.

Speaker 2

Oh Man perfect on stage.

Speaker 3

Jane's opponents took turns attacking him, with one targeting Gene for quote boasting he had read Hitler's book seven times, although he said he was too busy to read any other books on cost and.

Speaker 2

Look, I'm one of the very few people who have read mind cop because that book is not seven times, not a readable book.

Speaker 3

Seven times. This is literally a joke in the Boys. This is literally a joke in the Boys.

Speaker 2

That's nuts.

Speaker 3

That's too many times to have read mind comp. No, They're like, there's there's a great episode where they asked their like Tucker Carlson analog, have you ever read mind comp It's like, yeah, like a few times, I guess, And they're like, there's a few times.

Speaker 2

I will say my favorite mind comp joke is in the movie Churchill The Hollywood Years, in which Christian is Winston Churchill, where one of the one of the King of England's servants sees a copy of mind comp Bias bed and goes me and camp f, what's this a gay prison novel?

Speaker 3

That's great? Perfect.

Speaker 1

They did that exact Tucker Carlson thing and in succession with with yes as a scene in succession And.

Speaker 3

Maybe this was Succession, not the boys. Maybe I'm confusing it, or maybe it's both. Who knows. I could be confusing Tucker Carlson analogs because they're always Tucker.

Speaker 1

It's it's always Tucker.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Now No. Gene arrived late from a hemoroid operation and literally upstaged one of his opponents who was in the middle of a speech, and this disturbance sparked a massive brawl beneath the stage that only got worse when Jene tried to speak to quote William Anderson quote. The crowd was now full of devilment, and while supporters spoke for Gene, a car was set afire in the back of the crowd and people swirled to watch it burn. It was

just like the old days. About the only punches Gene's opponents were able to land that summer were in regard to Talmadge's early admiration for Europe's rising dictators. They all honed in on Gene's propensity for militaristic action and pointed to where that type of action had gotten Europe. Gene ignored them, unquote. The election for the Democratic primary was held on nine to eleven, and the results handily gave Gene a clear and decisive victory. Just truly, truly the

worst nine to eleven. Jane got like three hundred and twenty county unit votes. He just completely swept the race. Gene arrived late to his own celebration party and left early to pass out in his hotel room. He was getting old, he was having hemorrhoid operations. He wasn't the same kind of fiery young man that that started his career.

Speaker 2

Yeah, by the time you're having Yeah, hemorrhoid operations make you fiery, but maybe a different kind of fire. Different fiery, Yeah, different, different sort of fire.

Speaker 3

The Georgia Democratic convention next month was referred to as a Talmadge orgy and was full of over four thousand Talmadge fanatics in red suspenders times of Flat Circle.

Speaker 1

So much.

Speaker 3

Yeah, man, and four thousand, that's that's not a small amount for like.

Speaker 2

Oh, that's it for like decent crowd today, for like for like a local.

Speaker 3

For like a local political convention.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 3

Now, Journalist Ralph McGill wrote, quote, Talmadge has something only few men have. He has that quality that makes men want to follow him, to fight for him, to defend him unquote. Now, Jean sent his son Herman to promise FDR that they were going to bury the hatchet quote unquote, and that they would be fully cooperative in the war effort, but Jean's personal feelings differed. I'm going to end this episode with one final quote from Anderson that kind of

lays out what Gene was like going into World War two. Quote. The Nazi devastations in Europe brought out the isolationism in Talmach. He saw the conflict as a potential drain on the American economy. There was for him, little value in foreign aid taking money from the hungry farmer's pocket. Talmach singled out FDR as the main force behind America's growing involvement in the war and This increased his hatred of the man. He felt that if the United States remained strong, the

country would be left alone. He said in November, quote, if you lead a bulldog around with you, nobody is likely to jump on you. Unquote. In the same breath, he warned, quote America cannot take the stand of being permanent guard for Europe. Some thought Jean's isolationism had gotten out of hand when he wrote some highly favorable editorials about to Japan in The Statesman after that country had

just killed thousands of Chinese. Japan thought it had an ally in gene and invited a member of his newspaper to quote, witness the real life and the scenic beauties of Japan. They represent them to the American people through your newspaper. Unquote.

Speaker 2

There's no more natural ally for the governor of Georgia than the Empire of Japan. Let's just say it.

Speaker 3

Let's just fascist Japan. He literally sent over his employees to tell no, his employees were invited to Japan by the fascist party to like give it a glowing, a glowing review in his in his own newspapers Unit seven thirty one.

Speaker 2

Thing, Really, Sam's interesting, Why don't we try a local version of that.

Speaker 3

Oh my god. Jene was an innocent duke who was so desperate to keep attention from leaving the poor farmer that he would even try to syctify war makers. Others saw this as indicative of the dark side of Gene. When people were calling him a dictator, he said, I'm what you call a minor dictator. But did you ever see anybody that was much good who didn't have a little dictator in him? Unquote He's not wrong that.

Speaker 2

He's actually not wrong about that.

Speaker 3

I mean this is like a little yeah, that is healthy.

Speaker 2

It's not just politics. Like everyone I've ever worked with who's who's a good like manager, has a little bit of that something.

Speaker 1

I feel you have to write, I feel attacked.

Speaker 2

That's how movies dior. Yeah, you need a little bit of dictator. He's not He's not wrong about that, right, Like it's the same thing, Like there's a degree to which you need that. I mean, yeah, like that's that's how.

Speaker 1

I'm being a complimented.

Speaker 2

And that's both it's accomplissent.

Speaker 3

But I mean no, like this, he like embraced this like minor dictator refrain and then to conclude from Anderson quote Jane's early admiration for Hitler, the fact that he had read Hitler's book seven times, and his tendency to surround himself with huge military staffs and nonchalantly call for martial law gave it an eerie backing to his words unquote, so yeah, that's Gene circa nineteen forty. He's sending his employees and I believe actually his own son to Japan

as special guests of the Japanese government. He's reading Mine com a few too many times. I would say little.

Speaker 2

Six too many times. Yeah, I'm fine with up to one.

Speaker 3

And certainly embracing the dictatorial attacks on him by saying, I mean, come on, you, you got to be a little bit of a dictator. So, yeah, that is a big That is Gene.

Speaker 2

That's that's how I podcast. You know, a little bit of a dictator.

Speaker 3

Yeah, that is that is Gene. At this point, he is he's getting old, he's getting a little worn out, but he's he's he's still hanging in there.

Speaker 2

Yeah, Yeah, he really is. Boy, this man has some staying power. Well, he's an innovator. You got to give him that.

Speaker 3

We will, we will finish this. This this four part series on gene Uh. In the next episode, where we are going to where we are going to discuss just as as a little hint, something called the Cocking Affair, which is kind of one of the last of of Jean's scandals. So get excited for that. We're gonna have a lot of a lot of good cocking uh jokes. I guess yeah.

Speaker 2

Talk out with our talk out, That's.

Speaker 1

What we're going to do. Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube, new applepisodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash at Behind the Bastards

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