Also media.
Welcome back to Behind the Bastards. Our guests for this week, Molly Hunger Molly, Welcome to the Poor gam.
Oh, I'm excited. I'm excited, Molly. What do you know about kent Hoven? When you first brought ken Hooven, I had him mixed up with a different creation as with the same initials. I was thinking of ken Ham. Oh, yeah, it is.
Weird that they have the same initials.
So I have been to ken Ham's Creation Museum. We are animatronic dinosaurs, but I have not been the kent Hoven's dinosaur Land.
It's really weird now that you bring it up. I mentioned hamm in here because he's like ham is the good creationist park, right like if you've seen in terms of like they put some money into that thing, Like if you've been there, you've like if if you've seen photos and stuff of like online, it's the one with like you see like the diet there's like a stegosaurus with a fucking saddle on it and stuff, and it's like, oh, Robert.
I will have to send you the picture of me riding the trice Arato.
That's like a decent quality model, right Like at least in the photos. It looks like they put some money into that point.
I learned a lot about how humanity used to coexist with the dinosaurs.
That's great, Molly, we'll be talking about that today. Kent Hovend is like not even the Kirkland brand version of that guy. He's the dollar General ken Ham right.
Signature.
You're right, he's he's the dollar General uh like brand of that guy. Because he also has a dinosaur amusement park. But it's dog shit and it killed a kid. So we're gonna have fun with this guy, Mollie. We're gonna have fun with this guy. So our subject to this week is doctor Kent Hovind a real doctor.
It's never a real doctor on this show, mall.
Third of the time. Maybe it's a real doctor. Yeah. He is a Christian educator with a passion for debating evolutionists. He believes that evolution is a religion and arguing that there were dinosaurs on Noah's Ark. He also runs, as I said, a dinosaur slash Bible themed park that doubles a compound for what is kind of a cult, a lower case see cult. I will say, as cult leaders go.
He's not good at it.
Maybe he doesn't really want that much control because he doesn't seem to exercise as much of it as a lot of them. But it's still pretty bad.
Right, I mean, if there's no automatic rifles or child marriage, is it really a compound? Molly.
I will say there's probably automatic rifles because it is an Arkansas, but as for the rest of it, I don't know. He did get a kid killed there, so I'm not gonna say it's very good. Hey, everyone, Robert here from the future, and I fucked up. I wrote this both ways. The reality is that Kentovend now today
lives in Alabama, not Arkansas. I don't know why I said Arkansas so much, other than I was very hungover from a variety of gas station drugs when we recorded this episode, so you can chalk that one up to me being gas station sober these days. Again, Kent Hoven lives in Alabama now, not Arkansas. I might argue that some of this is the fault of people in both Alabama and Arkansas from being two different states when we all know they should be the same state, but that's
rather beside the point. Kent E. Hovend was born on January fifteenth, nineteen fifty three. I think he was born in Pensacola, Florida, but I don't feel great about my Yeah, not a good start.
He may not have been.
This may just be like bad AI summaries of stuff, although I found it in places that are not AI generated. But he seems to have immediately moved to East Peoria, Illinois, and spent most of his childhood there. He's there until he's like a young man. So I don't know if he was actually born in Illinois because I haven't really found a good direct source on that, but probably born
in Florida, moved immediately to Illinois. I've come across basically nothing solid about his childhood or his parents, except for the fact that on numerous occasions he has said that he accepted Jesus Christ as his savior on February ninth, nineteen sixty nine. So he's about sixteen. Yeah, yeah, that's great.
Now.
We talk about this on the show occasionally, but it bears reemphasizing that, like in our cultural memory, sixty nine is like the summer of love, hippies and weed and anti war protests and all that good stuff. That's a pretty reductive picture of what's going on because right alongside all of that stuff, the civil rights movement in Woodstock, et cetera, there's the birth of a subculture known as Jesus People. Right, That's also a thing that's happening here.
There's a huge surgeon like really unhinged Christian evangelism. Right, some of this is a reaction to the bad side of the hippie years.
Right.
You've got with free love comes a lot of people getting STDs. You have a lot of people overdosing on drugs. You have swarms of young people who don't really have any money crowding into San Francisco and winding up basically living on the street. And a lot of these people get like disillusioned and desperate. And one of the first of them to get disillusioned is a guy named Ted Wise. Wise was a saale maker who had a bad LSD trip in nineteen sixty five and heard the voice of God.
That'll get you, Yeah, that'll get you. I I you know, as a kid when I did drugs. You know, now, I'm straight edge except for you know, the stuff you can buy in gas stations. But as a kid, when I started doing drugs, I had this like evangelical belief that a lot of young people get that, Like, man, if we could just put this shit in the water supply and fix everything, that is not how drugs work. I was very wrong to nineteen year.
Old were you in the CIA, Robert, Yes, yes, briefly.
Yeah, that's what everyone says. No, it turns out drugs can lead you in very bad directions, and that's what happens with Wise. He starts working with a bunch of pastors in the Bay Area to take in runaway hippie kids and turn them into evangelists. This thing that kind of becomes the Jesus movement starts in northern California, but soon there's coffee houses and soup kitchens, churches and farms with communal living spaces, all real bent on Jesus all
over the country. Now, Kent doesn't graduate high school until nineteen seventy one, which puts him at the old end of the Jesus People generation, and the evidence we have suggests he was always more in the conservative end of the Christian spectrum than some of the Eastern mysticism inspired Jesus People, because, like you get a lot of in some of the Christianity that comes out of the Jesus People movement. You get a little bit of like, we've thrown a little bit of Buddhism in here. We stuck
a couple of Yo him pisses in here. Yeah, we're still hippies, you know, we are still smoking pot, right, But the cultural weight of that swing towards evangelical Christianity is definitely an influence on Ham. The preachers he's drawn to, though, are men like Jack Hiles. Hiles is an obscure figure to most Americans, but starting in the late nineteen fifties, Hyles is kind of the He kind of invents megachurches.
That's who That's who Hiles is. He calls his church the Independent Baptist Church, and he it's crowned a super church by time in nineteen seventy five. Because he it's not just a place where people will go on Sundays. He builds a Bible college there, unaccredited obviously, he builds what becomes one of the largest Sunday schools in the country.
So there's all these like ancillary buildings and programs attached to the bigger chure, and so thousands of people become members and it's this is kind of like the first precursor to what becomes the megachurch, right, this is like the Austrolopithecus of megachurches. Cool, So, yeah, that's Hiles's the's that's who Kent is going to be kind of like obsessed with as a kid.
And like a very triggering last name. For some reason, I feel like.
He should be British with that last ye, right, he should be played by the guy who played Niles in Frasier.
Does it feels like it feels like there'd be a villain in some movie with that name.
Yeah, so played by christ He is kind of a villain, and Christian Slater might be able to handle this role. He can handle most things. He's a great actor. But
Hiles is a fundamentalist. He taught that people could not be born again unless they were brought to Christ using the King James Bible, which is that's a big thing for I don't know, like a fifth of Christians in the country today that like the King James Bible specifically is the Word of God and all of the other older or newer you know, translations and whatnot are wrong
in some way. You just have God came back to do to drop like a mixtape, a remix of his old hits, and this is the only thing you're allowed to listen to now.
I love this stuff.
Hovind also admired a guy named Bob Jones, Sr. Who I'm gonna guess you've heard of, Oh.
I've heard of Jones University. Absolutely, yeah, Well this is a fine institution.
Yeah, one of the great college one of the great learning centers in our nation.
You know, I've always said, can you really be learning if you're not wearing pantyhose? No?
No, And Bob Jones Senior would say absolutely not. He was an American evangelist, one of the first Christian radio stars, and as you said, he founded Bob Jones University. He was also a segregationist and one of the people who felt like having a Catholic in the White House was going to doom this nation to papist domination.
Right.
He's one of those guys who would like rant about the papists taking control of the government and me in every word, oh what a different time. I almost have trouble getting in the head of someone who is like specifically scared that the Catholics are going to take over this country, like we have one in there now and he's like barely holding on.
Well, that's only because the power of the pope has waned. Robert. If you had a more powerful pope, I think would be would be really in trouble.
Yeah, we need the pope needs a thousand blood sacrifices to get his power level back up to where he can he can cast Mammon out of the temples that we've built in Capitol Hill. I think that's right, mammon. Yeah, that's the God of money. So Kin's personal pastor was Lauren Dawson, whose gospel tape ministry was a groundbreaking Christian business, sending more than ten thousand taped sermons ten thousand individual tape sermons out to anyone who wanted to buy them.
This is like before the Internet. This is if you want to spread your shit in an Internet like way. This is kind of how a lot of shit spread mimetically throughout the kind of what becomes the Christian right. And Kent is going to devour every one of these tapes he can get his hands on as a young man, and this is where he learns the secrets of public
speaking and preaching. As a business. In fact, if I had to draw together the similarities between the different guys Kent admired as a boy, it would be that they all succeeded in turning their faith into an industry or industries instead of just a church.
Right, he's.
Right, money changing in the temple Jesus favorite thing.
We all know. He's huge into stuff. The Word of God is for sale.
Yeah, absolutely, Why wouldn't it be. He didn't come back to rewrite the King James Bible for you to not make a buck.
Off of it, you know.
So these guys are Kent's guiding light, and he saw this like decides his future is in Christianity, not specifically as a belief system or a way of life, because he does not live a particularly Christian life, but as a way to make a living. Specifically, he decides he's going to make a living in Christian education. Here's what he writes about his development past this point in twenty twelve on a website called Creation Today, one of my
favorite news sources. Molly his keen interest in math and science throughout his high school career prompted his enrollment at Illinois Central College as a science major after two years of undergraduate work there and feeling God calling him to full time Christian service, he completed his Bachelor of Religious Education degree at Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan, in
nineteen seventy four. For fifteen years, Hovan taught high school math and science, during which time he completed his master's degree in education. While researching and writing his doctoral dissertation on the subject of creation versus Evolution, he saw the tremendous need for exposing evolution as a dangerous religious worldview and for arming Christians with scientific evidence that there are
no contradictions between true science and the Bible. In response to these needs, shortly after finishing his PhD in religious education, he began a full time ministry.
Now, so he's teaching high school science. Not at all, Molly, all of that's lies. Every word I read almost was a lie.
Yeah, yeah, no.
No again. Seventy percent of the time. If I introduced someone on their show as a doctor, they are not in fact a doctor. And yeah, basically everything he put. He may have done two years of college trying to get a science degree, but he didn't get a science degree, which is about as impressive as the two years I spent considering getting a history degree, right, Like.
You didn't get it.
It doesn't matter really, But let's start with the most basic claim up there, right, that he taught high school math and science for fifteen years. This seems like it would probably be true. People usually don't lie about being a high school math and science teachers. And like, there's a lot of teachers in the country, right. Teaching is not an easy job, obviously, but it's not impossible for cranks and weirdos to get teaching degrees.
Right, it happens. I've had a couple of them time times and places where you don't even need a teaching degree. Yes, yeah, well that's exactly where Kent comes in. Right.
He does do some teaching, but it's not what you or I would call high school math and science teaching. The reality is that he gets teaching gigs at three private Christian schools, none of which you're accredited, all of which you're run out of churches, and one of them is run out of a church that he founded. There is no public record of him having a teaching career or evidence that he ever taught at something the government
recognizes as a school, so there's no nothing behind that. Really, he may have lectured about dinosaurs to some kids for fifteen years, but we can't prove it.
The real science class is the friends we made along the way.
That's right, Molly, that's right. So Kent worked as a pastor and a not really a teacher teacher from nineteen seventy five until around nineteen eighty eight. While he was still in school. In nineteen seventy three, he married his first wife, Joe. And I need to put emphasis on the word first there, because for a man who believes divorce is a sin, Kent Hoven does a lot of getting divorced.
Not yet though.
He and Joe are going to have three kids from nineteen seventy seven to nineteen seventy nine, which is too fast to have three kids us. That's quite a rate, poor Joe. Yeah. But in that time he started one private Baptist school and he worked as an assistant pastor at two others. In nineteen eighty nine, dismayed by the growth of scientific rational thought in popular culture, he moved to Pensacola and created a new ministry, Creation Science Evangelism.
The goal with this ministry was to promote creationism, and he begins traveling around the world delivering lectures about how to argue with evolutionists. He also sold merch, most of it dinosaur themed, and this becomes a surprisingly successful business ultimately. But it's a slow start at first, and we're going to cover what happens next. But first, Mollie, you know what didn't get a slow start.
Away? Is it these products and services?
It's these excellent products and services that support our podcast and or program. Ah, we're back, and Mollie, you were just telling me that some other iHeart hosts have been getting sent allergy medicine which I could sorely use right now. Do you know what drug it is?
Is that I'm being honest with you. I skip the ads, but I have the tail end of a couple of them. Some of our colleagues.
No, they're not giving us money yet, don't shill for that.
I know. I want to know what it is. I want them to give us. Colleges are getting allergy pills for free?
Is it the stuff with methan? It because I missed that ship that was good, that was the stuff that worked. Everybody bullshit, I don't think.
I don't think out of a tin treats allergies. Literally, that was.
The best allergy medicine. And then and then you they put them behind the pharmacy and.
Because they're plusted people doing shaken bags, it's bullshit, Like, what's the harm a little bit of picher?
Come on, that's the best I could ever breathe, to be honest. And then all of a sudden they were gone, and or you would go and buy them and you'd buy a box and those were not the right bills.
Yeah a time.
Yeah, it's it's it's we need to have like, if we're going to have all of these guns be legal, we need to have a standard where if you can't prove something is scarier than an AR fifteen, it has to be legal, right, Like shake and bake biker meth, like that's not nearly as dangerous as guns. Let's let let it. Let people buy it over the counter.
Come on, enjoy.
Yeah, yeah, come on, guys. We probably still have seat belts, but maybe we get rid of air bags for those weird air bag fundamentalists. I feel like that's a voting block. We might be able to conquer that kind of guy. Oh yeah, Molly, that's absolutely there's about a million of those guys in the country, and if we get them on our side, we can legal lies the good allergy medicine.
Again.
Anyway, back to Kent, hovind So. Kent starts his new ministry in between earning his master's degree in Christian education in nineteen eighty eight and his PhD in Christian education in nineteen ninety one. Now I know what you're asking, Mollie, because you asked this earlier. Are those real degrees? Don't worry, We're getting to it. So for the first years of his career, though, he lectures dozens of times at schools and Sunday schools and churches and Bible colleges. He says
he lectures at public schools. It's Arkansas and Florida, so there's a good chance he's not lying. And his focus is in laying tactics out for arguing against evolution.
Right.
He's particularly obsessed with public debates and arming his audiences with this arsenal of gotcha lines that they can use to win public confrontations, and a lot of it has to do with like setting the terms of the debate in a way where you're not really arguing about evolution or like trying to lead people into these logic traps. He thinks he's built. But here's an example of the kind of shit he's doing.
Just you're gonna say, and where did God come from? I don't know, but you said twenty billion years ago there was a big bang, and you don't know where the dirt came from. So basically, I believe in the beginning God and you believe in the beginning dirt. Don't tell me my theory is religious and yours is science. Oh no, sir, they're both religious. The news media tries to make it look like it is religion versus science.
I did a debate in El Paso, Texas here recently, and the media wrote an article they said religious and scientifically to urge debate evolution. What is the unspoken message in that title?
What are they trying to imply?
Can you catch that? They're trying to imply that evolution is part of science, aren't they? No, evolution is a religion.
It sounds like he's about to start rapping. It does sound like he's about to drop a bar. Really, I could feel it coming.
No, he doesn't have that Ben Shapiro level of versatility.
He's the bench of Bureau of Dinosaurs.
He is, he is. The background music is such a choice.
It's fascinating stuff. But like he's he's like why did he do that? Singer?
Yeah, you see what he's doing there though, right, he's like number one, he's starting this is he's not starting by talking about evolution, like he's he's literally immediately taking the rails off of the debate because evolution has nothing to do with the Big Bang, right, Like he starts by talking about the formation of the universe, and there's actually always going to be a degree of unknown, right, like we're never going to get perfect. Now I would
disagree with him. There's actually quite a bit because of the way that like looking at shit in space works, there's quite a bit that we can observe about the early days of the universe that we simply cannot observe
about like his beliefs about a god. But that has nothing to do with evolution, which is like again like mutations and changes in time over species, you know, aggregating over the course of incredibly long periods of time, right, Like that has nothing to do with like the Big Bang, and it's separate things.
But like at the end of the day, like, I'm not an astrophysicist. I cannot tell you how dirt accreted in the emptiness of space to form Earth because that's not my business. That's not my business. But I can tell you that a child never wrote a dinosaur. Okay, I can't tell you a child never wrote a dinosaur.
And I can tell you that just like you know, when we get into like the the arcana of astrophysics, Yeah, that's a lot of that's over my head. Will we get into the basics of evolutionary theory, all of that makes complete sense. I understand that quite well, Like, because you can see there's variance in just.
Like the people.
You know, if you've had a bunch of different dogs and cats, there's variants in them. And some of the different variants that occurs naturally as animals breed are going to be more adaptive to their environment than others, and over time that will change the species, and that will
lead to like the splitting into different species. Right, you can see it on a micro scale in your own life if you have animals, and you can understand how, over the course of billions of years, it would lead to much more drastic changes than you see in like a few generations of goats.
Are Yeah, but who invented dirt, Robert, But who invented dirt? Gotcha? I got you. I find it very frustrating. Yeah.
Anyway, I want to play one more clip to you of Kent before we move on. And this isn't him talking about evolution, but I came across it in my research, and I do think it sets up some things about the kind of man he is.
This clip is called Kentoven goes Bananas. It sure is. Molly, I was about six years old.
I was raised in East Peoria, Illinois.
By the way, I know, I'm in Tennessee. But are there any more Yankees in the crowd? Any Yankees out there? Five?
Six, seven?
Okay?
How many Southerners do we have?
Ooh?
Well, just remember who won?
If you would, I know what over you.
I couldn't help that.
But I did move to Florida as soon as I got smart enough to figure out you know this.
Again, So I just I needed to play that little bit.
About to sell rising again to let people know that he's down with the Confederacy, that he didn't all wasn't always, but now he knows they.
Were remembering who won. But it's not over. But it's not over. It's such a weird splitting.
I enjoy his five six seven hand motions.
Yeah, I mean that's that's those are like workmanlike public speaking, you know, tech tactics.
He's not bad at he's good at it. Actually you have to give him. Yeah.
So one of the nice things about Kent, about writing about Kent, and also one of the frustrating things, is that he started reaching for prominence as a creationist debate bro effectively in the nineties.
Right.
And if you if you remember the Internet of like particularly the mid to late nineties early two thousands, a huge thing on the Internet back then was inner atheists, and this community sometimes called the skeptic community. It's split in a number of directions. In the modern era, some of these people have gone in very heartbreaking directions.
Right.
We can talk about Richard Dawkins being like, now I'm a cultural Christian because I hate Islam so much. Right, But there was this there was this kind of not even brief, like a decade period where like there was an army of everyone from like forum trolls to like guys like Dawkins who were just committed, like like pitbulls, to like hanging on and like latching onto arguments with Christians over creationism.
Right, I'm going to get.
One or both kinds of pitbull people angry at me for that comment. Look, I've been attacked by.
Either way. Bill Maher is gonna becoming for me.
Yeah, he's another one of these guys. Right, And because because he was so prominent during this period of time, there was like a whole information ecosystem dedicated to attacking Kentoven. There were entire websites that are just picking apart his whole life and backstory with surgical precision because he pissed off just some of these these maniac internet atheists who I love, I have very fond memories of, but who like clearly were the kind of damaged where they would
spend seventy hours a week writing about Kent Hovind. You know, like it's the thing we don't really have that anymore on the Internet, Like Kiwi Farms.
We have Kiwi Farm, but I feel like these people have the same sort of mental derange the Kiwi Farms user, but.
They're not, you know, it's it's much more ethical because they're never going after harmless people like kitimately a bad guys the.
Same level of fixation, but targeted in a good direction.
Yes, and targeted much more narrowly. Right, we just can't focus the way we used to, Mollie.
So it's just information overload. Yeah.
One of the most detailed sites to pick apart Kent's life was kenthovend dot com, run by John Steer. Today the website is most accessible through the wayback machine, and if you want an idea of its age, there was a running tally at the top of every page counting up the total cost of the Iraq War. So it's like again, like just for a snapshot of the time.
This was written a beautiful time capsule.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's magical stuff. It really brought me back to my teenage years. So on that website, one of the there's like a Q and a portion and one of the questions is is doctor Hoven a real doctor? And Steer writes yes and no. So it turns out Hovend did get a religious based PhD from Patriot University, which then changed its name to Patriot Bible University. They throw a Bible in there, Molly, how does that not work better, it's worse. It's better because it makes the acronym PBu
instead of PU. Right, Like, that's just not great for they should have thought about that, but I don't know. Despite that questionable name, PBu has been authorized by the Colorado Commission of Higher Education as a seminary or Bible college, which means it can grant religeigeous degrees, but only religious degrees. It wouldn't be entirely fair to say these aren't real
in the legal sense. But also Kent is going to spend decades identifying himself as a PhD in education and authoring scientific papers and calling himself a doctor, both to insinuate that his PhD has something to do with science or evolution. It does not, Steer writs quote. Patriot University also claims to be accredited by an unrecognized American Accrediting Association of Theological Institutions, which operates from the same po
box as a as Christian Bible College. Both AAATI and CBC are run by Cecil Johnson, and CBC is only accredited by you guessed at AAATI. This blatant conflict of interest could be a litmus test for the quality of AAATI. So I decided to look into this AATI, this accrediting organization that accredits the organization that runs.
It, right, and it's just a diploma mill. Right.
For years, it would offer you if you wanted to start your own Bible school, they would accredit your Bible school for one hundred dollars plus seventy five bucks a year. But the federal government does not recognize AAATI accreditation.
Right, didn't unders Bravik run a similar scam for years?
Oh god, he might, Yeah, I think he did. I don't have much enough recollection of that to want.
To get into it. But we'd make fake diplomas, so yeah, I mean, good company, good company. We need to get into the fake diploma business, Molly. I'm getting a doctorate right now.
I think I could offer degrees, and I feel like we should just try for medical degrees. Like, let's just see if we can get people putting out pills. You know, I think it's worth a shot. So if we'll debate this in private, Molly, Molly's on my side, though I can tell she thinks this is a.
Good speaking of idea.
Mollie, would you like to see Patriot Bible University? Because it started as a Bible college in Dallas, Texas, but it moved to Colorado and it is currently based in what appears to be a double wide trailer. No, it's it's beautiful where they have parking. Year My college didn't have nearly this good parking situation.
This is like the front office, like where's the where's the rest? This is a man's house, Molly.
This isn't even a front office, is uh? And having lived in trailers, I can say this isn't a particularly nice one. Where does the students go, Yeah, they don't, Mollie. They send their money and in letters and they get degrees in the mail.
It's just a guy with a xerox machine. It's a guy with a Xerox MASSIONEID. Yeah, solid, So I could be I could be a doctor. You could be a doctor.
It costs about nineteen hundred dollars, or at least it did twenty years ago. I'm not sure now a steal. It's a good price. So Patriot Bible University teaches youngerth creationism and charges monthly, which Wikipedia notes makes it unlike most universities.
They're on the deca semester system.
Yeah, that is Unlike most real schools.
Students can be predo decamesters.
Students can prepay for degrees, and in two thousand and two they offered a buy three, get one free credit deal, which definitely sounds okay.
I found a copy.
Of their internal magazine from two thousand and two, and this is a little off topic, but they have a whole page dedicated to suggested church signs. I want to go through some of these, moll you want to.
Just read through these?
Oh?
I love that because you see these. You know, you guys aren't in the South, but yeah, when you drive drive, you drive a rural road, you know, through the country South, and you gotta wonder, like, are they getting these from a magazine? And I guess the answer is yes, some of them. Yes, let's pop.
Let's let's popcorn. Read.
I'll go.
I'll go first. God answers email Jesus at.
The best vitamin for a Christian is B one? What does that even mean? Like vitamin B one? Like B two, B twelve? Yeah? But what is what is the put?
Oh?
Like, the best vitamin for is to be is to be one Christian. That's not a good pun to.
Be one with Christ strawberty.
Yeah, is B one even one of the B vitamins.
I don't know if it is. I've never heard of it. I think I think this is just a bad joke.
Yes, there is a vitamin there that's good.
That shows how much we know about vitamins. Here's another one, tithe. If you love Jesus, anyone can honk, which seems kind of desperate. You don't even have to love Jesus.
Wow.
Oh, I know they're saying, tie if you love Jesus because honking is too easy, like you, if you're just honking. Yeah, give us money, fuck you, give us money.
A clear conscience makes a soft hello.
Mm there you go, prevent truth decay. Brush up on your Bible.
I'm sure there are people who are brushing their teeth with their Bibles that read this magazine. Christians keep the faith, but not from others, and don't don't keep let everybody into Christianity. And what part of thou shalt not? Don't you understand you didn't yell.
Thou shalt not. It's in all caps.
It isn't all caps. It isn't all caps. These aren't even good like I've seen. Of course they're not good. I've seen a lot of these, and these ones aren't even funny.
No, these are terrible. And it's filled with letters from like students and graduates, this magazine and like inspirational little essays on how if you want to be a good writer, the best book to read is the Bible, which is a professional writer. I have not found the Bible particularly helpful, not saying it's not useful. It's a it's an incredibly important historic document. I have gained value from reading the Bible as historic document, but I didn't get value in
like learning how to write from it. Right you'll, yeah, yeah, there's also a lot of bullshit like Leviticus you can mostly cut, Like if I'm editing that thing, I'm chomping down like half of those chapters.
Right, well, you know that what is it?
Like? What is it?
What is it from? I think it's from Proverbs about like you know, the the idiot returns to his folly like a dog returns to its vomit.
You know, that's that's not that that's not that's a good line, Like you wouldn't keep some of gold? Like if I'm I might, I might do what Thomas Jefferson did and like do my own version of the Bible, and we're just gonna cold open on Jesus fucking up those money lenders in the Temple and then like freeze frame and Jesus is like looks that look to looks to camera and goes wondering we could make we can make a solid nineties movie Jeremy Piven plays Jesus Christ.
Uh oh, yeah, probably shouldn't cast Jeremy Piven in anything anymore, but I watched PCU recently, so anyway, I find this kind of stuff fascinating. As a young, angry atheist, magazines like this kind of terrified me. But now it all seems so quaint compared to a lot of what's gone mainstream on the right. So I don't know, I don't
know where I land there. The essay that closes out the issue is titled Age of Reasoning question Mark, and it features a lengthy complaint that today's kids all know about Snoop Dogg but not the Constitution.
Then it is I'm always saying this.
I will say I got a given credit. I learned something maybe from this, And because it ends with an insane story that I hadn't heard before, The story is told of Franklin Roosevelt, who often endured long receiving lines at the White House. He complained that no one really paid attention to what was said. One day, during a reception, he decided to try an experiment. To each person who passed down the line and shook his hand, he murmured,
I murdered my grandmother this morning. The guests responded with raises like marvelous, keep up the good work. We're proud of you. God bless you, sir. It was not till the end of the line, while greeting the ambassador from Bolivia that his words were actually heard.
Nonplus.
The ambassador leaned over and whispered, I'm sure she had it coming. Now that's a fun plead story.
That's true. Please tell me that's true.
Unclear, Molly, because I had the same reaction as you when I read that, I was like, well, I want that to be true.
That would make me like FBR so much more.
But I googled around. Snopes has looked into the matter, and the answer is it's like a maybe, it's kind of right on the line right. It seems to have originated this story in a nineteen fifty three book titled The Complete Spelled in a Weird Way Practical Joker by h Allen Smith, who was a journalist and a comedy writer. And like, it's unclear if this is just bullshit or a thing he actually heard or witnessed. It may have just been a story that went around.
I don't know.
My guess is this is probably not literally true, but we can choose to believe this.
Yeah, this could be our episode about faith, right, Yeah, and I have faith.
So back to Kent Hoven, his first PhD. He's going to get three more and all of them are equally bullshit. Did require him to produce a doctoral dissertation? Yes, these are an important part of real life PhD programs. And a key aspect of like writing a thesis, right, is that to get your doctorate you have to publish original work that expands, to some extent the frontier of human knowledge, or at least attempts to write. And it is something
that is reviewed by a committee of relevant experts. They have to eventually sign off on it, and it is published somewhere that everyone can read it. Right, This is this is the basics of like how that's supposed to work?
Right? Yeah, now let's see it.
Because Patriot Bible University isn't a real school, no one could actually find a copy of his dissertation for a long time.
Eventially double wide.
Actually it was somewhere in that double wide And eventually there's now a copy. It's got posted on like WikiLeaks. Eventually it's an agree to which the internet was out for this guy, loaded for bore.
Wiki leaks came. Oh, it's so funny.
But eventually, like an actual scientist reviews this thing and points out a number of things that make this not a real dissertation or thesis a when a real thesis is reviewed by a committee of three to five people with relevant expertise. Kent was only reviewed by doctor Wayne Knight, who runs Patriot Bible University, and sounds like a Batman character, like, yeah, that's a guy from the Batman cartoon.
Don't tell me that man sence academic. He sounds like a guest on the fourth hour of Info Wars.
There's actually there's there's a substantially higher than zero chance that doctor Wayne Knight has been on it, but Wars I didn't think to look into that. Honestly, now that I think about it, that's almost certain. Yeah, So, since Kent is going to make his career badly defending creationism, it behooves us to look at the kind of claims he made in what is ostensibly the springboard of his
academic career. One academic who reviewed his thesis noted, even the undergraduate honors thesis at my institution require the signatures of two faculty members. This fellow goes on to note that misspellings are rampant in cite several examples, including Canaan, which a Bible doctor really ought to be able to spell, and Shinto he meant shinto. Other criticisms include the fact
that the thesis does not have a title. It has one illustration, which was a is a diagram of the electromagnetic spectrum, literally cut out of an actual science textbook and taped badly inside the thesis. The reviewer notes it does not fit the page, and so what did he
prove that evolution is a religion and creationism is great? Well, actually, we'll talk a little bit about his academic assault on the theory of molly and maybe convince you to give up your life of sin for the cleansing peace of Bible believing Christianity.
But first I'm diving right into that baptismal font we come back from this break.
Yeah, my only Bible and my only baptism is in the cool running rivers of commerce that supports this podcast. All right, we're back. Kent is going to build, you know, his career attacking evolutions. Let's look at how he attacks it. In this thesis quote, Hovid begins with a non standard definition of evolution that with time, things left to themselves can improve, and a ramble about thermodynamics. For the first time, evolution is described as a religion. Hang on to your hats.
He then proceeds to a long pair of inaccurate definitions of microevolution and macro evolution. He finishes this section with a second misstatement about evolution by pinning the idea of evolution equals progress on the evolutionists. Now there's a lot.
That's wrong there.
I mean, for one thing, evolution is not things improving over the time when left to themselves. It's again like random changes, some of which are going to prove adaptive, some of which won't. And that leads to like change in differentiation in species over long periods of time. Right, it's not inherently improving. Things don't always get better. Species don't always get better because of this like that. That's not what anyone's arguing for when they're talking about No,
of course not now. Despite what guys like Hoven say, the theory of evolution is simple and hard to argue with because it's such a reasonable thing. Hovend has to come Like the Catholic Church hasn't had an issue with it and longer than any of us has been alive.
Right, and it doesn't preclude the existence of a creator God. You could just say, no, God invented evolution. Done.
There's plenty of perfectly fine, like fucking YouTube arguments you can make for evolution being integrated with a belief in God. I don't care how convinced saying you as an individual find them. They're all more convincing than what Kint is saying.
Right, you can still believe in your God without being silly.
Yeah, the pope does, and he believes in a lot of silly shit.
Yeah, but we have a woke pope now, we do, we do hu woke huge problem, a real issue.
So Hovend has to come up because evolution is such an inherently reasonable concept. Hoven has to come up with his own straw man definitions of evolution to argue against, and they're always a little bit different. Later in his career, he's going to offer a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars prize to anyone who can promise empirically his word that evolution is real. And here's how he defines it
for the purpose of this argument. When I use the word evolution, I am not referring to the minor variations found in all of various all of the various life forms microevolution. I am referring to the general theory of evolution, which believes that these five major events took place without God. Number one, time, space and matter came into existence by themselves. Number two and it's and stars formed from space dust. Number three, Matter created life by itself. Number four, early
life forms learned to reproduce themselves. Number five major changes between these diverse life forms And like, that's not evolution, man, you're wrapping a bunch of different things into like all together. Like the theory. Darwin's theory of evolution did not involve the Big Bang.
No, that's a way later. It's way late. He was just.
Looking at some fucking, uh fuckingches, yeah, finches and shit, and going like, oh, it looks like species differentiate over time.
He tasted a bunch of different birds.
Yeah, he ate every animal that he could and worked out a basic theory. So far, what we've got here is with Kent is a local pastor and teacher who's built a nice business for himself lecturing at churches and Bible schools about creationism. Now that's not a good thing, but on its own, that's not noteworthy enough to make
him a subject of this episode. Right, there is something that makes Kent special, which is that he is one of, if not maybe the first of these kinds of guys to realize that the internet is about to be a huge deal and how to use the Internet in order to make a shitload of money for himself and build a following.
Right he is.
I don't know if he's the first of this kind of guy, but he's the first I'm aware of that really starts this with a website called doctor Dino. He makes me the mid nineties, Yeah, and he starts selling and collecting and whatnot a whole archive of creationist media all over the United States.
Oh, is that dinos we're breathing fire? It sure is, Molly, wait a second for that one. I don't care.
His main business is himself. But he basically sees, if I film these presentations I've been giving it churches and edit them into videos and sell those videos or let people you know, eventually stream them online, that will expand my audience. And there's ways to get money out of those people. Right, I'm gonna pinish a clip from one of his Yeah, he pivots to video. He does it first. Right, here's one of his doctor Dino videos.
Now, this one is called a parasofis had a weird bump on the back of his head. Some people think the parasol office was able to breathe fire. Who thinks that because that bump on his head was hollow and it's connected to his sinuses. I don't know about that, but interesting theory.
It is not.
I like the parasol office. But there's one thing about him I do not like so and I'm going to tell you about that in just a minute.
Okay, The whole speech is like that, he like introduced a dinosaur, usually get things wrong about it, and then be like, I like this guy except for one thing about him, and then he'll move on to the next dinosaur.
He didn't accept the Jesus as his Lord and savior.
That is kind of where we're going here. But I do want to let you know, folks, there are not fire breathing No, no one thinks there were dinosaurs that breathed fire. That's not a thing that science believes. That's not a thing anyone has ever suggested, except for mediac phoven.
Yeah.
I think this is part of like you get some of these weird creationist guys trying to where like both dinosaurs and myths about dragons together. Maybe that's where that comes out of. But anyway, here's how that whole speech thing culminates, right when he finally explains what he doesn't the one thing he doesn't like about all of these great dinosaurs.
The one thing about all the dinosaurs I do not like. I don't like the way every time you pick up a book about dinosaurs, you open up to the first page and guess what it says, tillions of years ago dinosaurs lived on the earth.
Man, that is not true.
What you have to do, you have to get a little buzzer in your brain and whenever somebody tells you something that's not true, he say.
Man, not true, I'm gonna have to go. Man, I can't hear, because that's not fair to the dinosaur. I like this dinosaur, except I don't like this one thing about him.
The dinosaurs never said, They never concept of age, as far as we're aware, didn't write that book.
Just wondering. Do you think that the costume department on Friends based Ross Guelers like work clothes off of Kent?
Yes, yes, they're both dinosaur scientists.
Well, and I also I refuse to consume anything either of them make outside of their wheelhouse. Right, Ross is not allowed to be Ross from Friends. I'm very angry. I watched I watched some insane television show. I think it was about like climate change and ship it's on I think it might have been Netflix. And Ross from Friends is in a couple episodes because it like veers from.
I've never seen him in anything but Friends. Does he still work?
He was?
Yes?
Apparently, yes he was, he was. He was. He played Robert Kardashian in the o J series.
There's the It's this, It's this show that sounds like
a fever dream. It starts with like like climate conferences about like the impending disaster, and then like you know, the disaster really gets going in earnest and suddenly everything pivots to being I thought it was going to go like be hardcore like Zionist, but actually the point it seems to be making is that the real Jewish homeland is Miami, and there's like a synagogue they're trying to save in southern Florida from flooding, and Ross from Friends as to bribe congressman to do it.
It gets arrested.
Is it called Little Death?
No, no, no, It's one of the weirdest shows I've ever seen.
I don't think that's real.
It felt like a fever dream. And then the entire show changes after the Ross.
From Friends port called Little Death.
It is definitely not called Little Death. Then it's called Extrapolations.
Oh then what else Sissy ben in it's not on his IMDb.
I think he might have funded the fucker. It's weird. He's weird in it.
A few years back it, Yeah, I got it.
It is an off putting show. I found it off.
Oh my god, John Snow is in it.
John Snow is in fact in it. Yeah, a lot of guys are in it. Edward Norton's a big part in it.
Yes, okay, I'll do this all my own time. Sorry.
I was like, what a cast.
It's a baffling show, Like, are you a guy who will always be known as playing one guy on a TV show? We'll cast you in this.
We'll cast you. Edward Norton is more than that, not much more.
He's Fight Club.
He's in the only movie about the shitty town in Oklahoma. I grew up in Leaves of Grass.
Good movie. It's also got one of the guys from Deadwood in it. Check it out.
He plays himself and his twin brother. Anyway, So Kent, oh dinosaur, Yeah, we're talking about dinosaur.
We got ross from Brinded.
We got ross from Friended. You can't stop when you get when you get a little dose of vitamin R. So anyway, As a public speaker, Kent has a whole host of lions. He's got locked and loaded to get an audience's attention, and one of his favorite lines is one drop of water will cover the whole world if you spread it real thin. Kent states this as if it's a scientific fact.
Don't worry.
I found a again, because there's a lot of guys who are obsessed with Kent. I found a crazy person who seems to know math, who did a breakdown and calculates that this Kent is off by roughly a factor of one trillion here, which sounds right. I can't check that math.
I don't know how to spread atoms. I don't know how big those are.
But yeah, it does seem like that would have to be off by about a trillion or so. Honestly, that might be low.
Guess if you're talking if you're talking about like baptismal water, I think it's more of a metaphor.
Yeah, I think that's But he also there's nothing that's a metaphor for Kent. You can't have metaphors.
In Kent's world.
Everything has to be literally true, otherwise his entire conception of reality collapses. Kent also claims that birds are not descended from dinosaurs. Dinosaurs are also big, cold blooded lizards that live in Eden, which we know they're not. The reality is that dinosaurs really have very little to do with modern reptiles. But Kent has to deny the sweep
of time necessary to allow birds to come about. So he claims, for example, that the Triceratops is just a Jackson's chameleon that got extra big because there was more oxygen back then. Like if you were to hook at Jackson's chameleon up to an O two tag, you could get to be huge.
Why are we doing that? There is some some scientific credence to the idea that, like the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere. Sex used to be bigger because they break through pores in their skins, so they could be larger because of the different amount of But they're the same insects, you know, And it's like.
You can't just if you just like you can't just make a common big oxygen I'm gonna I'm gonna put a pet chameleon inside of a hyperbaric chamber and I'm gonna grow.
I'm going to one.
Like. Look, if it worked that way, I would be psyched that the creationists were right, because then we'd have Triceratopsis to ride and that would be worth it. I'll lead a lot of crow to write a tri Serratos.
Only inside your special oxygen chamber.
Yeah, you would have probably have to keep the chamber. We just make the world a hyperbaric chamber. Perfect.
This guy is just Christian science Alex Jones. It's very weird. Yeah, yeah, he's a little worse than does he start selling products.
He's already selling products he's got.
I'm interested in the.
Merch videos and t shirts and toys, and obviously, like a lot of creationists, one of the things that helps stitch Kent's beliefs together is the existence of cryptids.
Right.
If the Lockness Monster exists, right, it means that dinosaurs didn't die out all that long.
Ago, exactly right.
Yeah, Yeah, Now, I know what a lot of you are asking at this point. Kent is clearly a ridiculous asshole. But is he really noteworthy? And I assure you he is. We're going to talk about his his real evil shit in part two, but I want to start by laying out how much fucking money he makes doing this grift. In two thousand and three alone, Kent earned more than one point six million dollars in doctor Dino merchandise sales.
From nineteen ninety five to nineteen ninety seven, his income tax bill alone was more than half a million dollars. And we know that because Kent was a tax protester and refused to pay his taxes for about thirty years.
Yeah, of course, of course he's a tax protester. I feel like, if you're truly only committed to God, is that like its own kind of sovereign citizen.
He is a sovereign citizen, Molly, That's where this is headed. But yes, also he's his own kind of Christian sovereign citizen too. He does both. So in two thousand and one, he creates his first Bible based theme park, dinosauran venture land tagline where dinosaurs and the Bible meet. I've heard these described as being built in his backyard in Pensacola, but his backyard is like seven acres, so it's not
like tiny. The park has an indoor science center filled with illustrated versions of the arguments Kent makes in his lectures. There's also an outdoor space with what can crudely be described as rides. One I've heard of is the jump Asaurus, which is just a trampoline next to a basketball hoop. Kids have a minute to make all the baskets they can, which will teach them that they have to be coordinated in order to spread God's message.
No that's not said skid, that's nonsense.
That's not all right. That's a trampoline next to a basketball court.
This is.
No I mean, look, I'm all for.
Children risking their lives in dangerous games, but also, you know, they should be more fun than that. So for a while in the early aughts, some skeptic publications did a decent business making fun of Dinosaur Action Land. But what actually brought Kent down wasn't being wrong about everything, because that never hurts people's career. It was tax fraud. To describe what happened, and again, folks, this is a constant
lesson in crime. Do whatever unethical shit you can get away with most evil things in the United States as long as you pay your taxes like just and the irs is not picky. You know, they don't care if you're a drug dealer. Just pay your taxes and you will avoid the easiest way to destroy your life as a person who is breaking the law.
Because they'll get you in the end.
They always say will, they will. They're actually know what they're doing. To describe what happened, next, I want to read a quote from a book by Professor Samuel Brunson called God and the IRS, which is about the difficulty the IRS has dealing with the religious right. It actually
sounds very interesting. It's like seventy dollars for the kindle edition because it's a textbook, so I have not read the whole thing, but I found excerpts that yeah, because there's just a portion of it that deals specifically with Kent.
Quote.
Though creationism was Hoven's professional passion, it was far from his only interest. Hovind was also deeply dedicated to not paying taxes. Hovind was as dedicated a tax protester as in it he did not file a single federal tax return between nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety six. The IRS noticed and demanded that Hoven provide them with certain
financial records. He refused. In fact, in his attempts to impede the IRS's investigation, Hovind went so far as to file a lawsuit against the IRS, demanding that the court order the IRS and it's a by court order, demanding that the court order the IRS and its agents stopped contacting and harassing him, and that it ordered the IRS to stay off his property. So, you know, taxes are complicated,
but the IRS is a simple organization. They just want their money, and they've spent enough time as the bugbear of the Republican Party that they are leery of having public fights with religious conservative tax protesters, so they don't go hard after again. He stops paying his taxes in eighty nine, and they don't really come for him until
two thousand and six, you know. And there's back and forths going on before then, in like the late nineties and early two thousands, but they don't really go for Bore until he makes it very clear that there is no other way for them to resolve this, right.
I mean, he he could have just all this time but just been doing his taxes, but like doing them wrong and paying like ten dollars would have been fine, and they wouldn't and they wouldn't have wanted to come after a church. But if you go out in public and you say I don't have to pay my taxes because God said so.
Right, right, And the big mistake he makes series Kent stakes the I r S's hesitation to go immediately nuclear on him as an actual victory. And so during this kind of awkward period where he's fighting back and forth with them, but they're not really coming after him, he decides he's like hacked the system, and he starts lecturing and selling book and video guides to not paying taxes.
Oh, they love those times when you do that. That's the easy way to make free. There's this whole industry of guys who will like sell you their system for like, oh, if you just do this one secret loophole. Yeah, it's not real, it's not real. I think the.
Easiest way to make a lot of money doing unethical things would be to like become that kind of guy, but pay your taxes scrupulously, like run a business on how people can avoid taxes.
But actually it's still funny to sell that shit.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well that's what that's what's going to happen to kin. So some of his new beliefs come to be based on the arguments of what are called sovereign citizens.
Yeah.
I think there's a decent level of like at this point, kind of background osmosis information the average person has about sovereign citizens. But in brief, sovereign citizens are people who believe that the arcana of tax law and constitutional law is a magic spell to make the government go away. Right if you figure out the right way to cite legal precedent, then you can make the federal government not in charge of you, you know, which it doesn't really work.
Sometimes the law can be like magic, but it never makes you not a subject of the state because it has a lot of guns. Ultimately, I've only ever.
Seen it in person once, but I was sitting through docket call and this woman had some sort of like relatively minor traffic ticket that really got blown out of proportion because she refused to produce a driver's license. And so, you know, she comes up before the judge and she says, well, I do not contract with the Department of Motor Vehicles, and she just like every time the judge asked her a question or tried to get her to see something, she just kept saying, I do not contract with the
Department of Vehicles. And it's like the judges like, it doesn't really matter if you do. No one really cares.
Lady, I don't contract with the fucking us with the Department of Homeland Security. But that's not going to stop him from coming after me if I do certain things, you know, like you don't have to contract with the ATF to have to obey the rules They put in place.
I do not contract with the Internal Revenue Service.
Yeah, they don't care. They've got a lot of guns. Ultimately, it does come down to that.
I kind of love that she was like, that's my line.
Yeah, gotcha.
I mean she got that from a guy like Kent, right, because absolutely kin gets Obviously I don't know who he gets brought into sovereign citizen. It's kind of like a decentralized cult ideology. But he starts spreading it too, like after he gets into it. Right, And here's a quote from one of the videos he puts out during this period of time that gives you an idea of how these people talk. I do not have or use a social Security number. Actually, no real person has a Social
Security number. Notice on your Social Security card that your name is spelled with all capital letters. This designates the straw man business trust or corporation, not a person. Right, so you can you can sue or imprison the all caps straw man that my card is for. But that's not really me. So I don't have to go to prison for all of these crimes. Again, man, even if you were right, which you're not, this is nonsense, Like, there's not actually legal president is there. Even if there was,
they all still have the guns. That's the like, as an anarchist, I also don't believe in the legitimacy of the state, but I recognize that they have more guns than me, you know, like ultimately, yeah, I'm going to try not to get them too angry at me because I don't want to get shot. I don't want to get a ruby ridge on my ass or something, you know, like the all.
Caps and the all lowercase version of you neither wise bulletproof. Yeah.
The one where I agree with them is that like, yeah, I mean the government is a big mafia, right, and I don't think it's very good. But you know, I recognize the reality that they don't care. If I can quote certain things like there's no magic spell to make them go away.
Pocket constitution, Yeah.
Yeah, your pocket Constitution's not going to save you on this stuff. In nineteen ninety eight, Kent filed a document with his local Clerk of Court where he claimed to be a sovereign citizen, not a citizen of the corporate government he believed was legally in control.
So not real. The notary was like, I mean, I'll stamp it.
But quote this, in Hoven's eyes, severed all ties between Kent Hovend and all caps Kent Hoven. In two thousand and one, nevertheless, he signed Kent Ehovend above a Kin Ehoven cap all caps signature light. So you're not even consistent about your nonsense.
Kent gotta file a new form.
Kent declared he and his wife immune to all previously incurred debts, including the money they owed to the irs, by revoking their power of attorney with the Clerk of Courts. They argued that Social Security was a Ponzi scheme which covered up the factor of the US government, or in their eyes, the government that ran corporation or whatever that
ran the US government was bankrupt. They referred to themselves as natural citizens of America, which is sovereign citizen language that basically means I am a citizen of the literal land, not this fake thing masquerading as a government. Now, that's
all pretty standard sob sit ideology. What's interesting to me is, in all the years after he filed this paperwork, he starts to mold his ideology and begins packaging it in new ways to audiences full of Christians who are just sure that can't legally be required to pay taxes for other people to use the roads right. Kent's method of justifying this was novel and a lot easier to sell to a wide audience than the kind of arcane sovereign
citizen mythology that he buys into. Here's Professor Bronson again. He ultimately rests his belief that he owes no taxes, at least to the extent anything besides bald greed underlies that belief. On his status as a Christian and a minister. He believes that something about being a religious believer makes him different from the vast majority of his fellow citizens. This difference, he believes, is it self sufficient to excuse
him from paying taxes. That is, in Hoven's mind, there is something about the economics of religious practice that materially alters the secular assumptions that underlie the tax law. Hoven's understanding of the difference that frees him from the clutches of the taxation that his fellow citizens face comprises two parts, one descriptive and one normative. Descriptively, he argues that he is a minister, and as a minister, everything he owns
belongs to God. Normatively, he argues that he should not be subject to earthly taxation on money he earns doing God's work. True, and this is there's still a lot of people who will argue this in different ways, and they get away with that actually a lot of the time, right, Like churches do a lot of shit, they shouldn't be aga if he.
Just hired an accountant, If he hire real accountant and did a little paperwork, half of that could be true.
He could get away with a lot of his tax burden and the iris wouldn't be willing to fight him on it.
But he just refused to do the paperwork.
I think the professor gets it right. He's just too greedy, right, Like he's not. He's a smarter man would recogniz that. Like, well, I'm a greedy asshole, but my greed has a limit, and like I don't want to. I know the government can only be pushed so far.
Right, Like Jim Baker at least pretended to pay some taxes.
He still did go to prison, by the way, where Kids' story's at it, But Molly, that's all gonna come in part two. Do you have anything to plug here? At the end of part one.
Oh, gosh, I don't really, I don't really have anything to plug. I'm on the internet.
It sucks on there, Molly's on the internet. We're raising funds again here behind the Bastards for the Portland Diaper Bank, which provides diapers for free to people who do not have enough money but have babies. You can go to go fund me Portland Diaper Bank, behind the Bastards Portland Diaper Bank. Go fund me and you will find the new GoFundMe for that and you can donate money to it and help out some people who don't have enough money for diapers, which is a good thing.
Diapers cost a fortune. Surprisingly are just crazy for babies. Babyhower. Yeah, like how are they getting away with this? I don't know, I don't know. I think big diaper, big diaper.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's really. That's the new military industrial complex. After Vietnam. They turned all of that body bag material into diapers and they're just making more money than ever.
That's my and we had.
Cool Zone Media have a couple of new shows that you should check out. The first is Offline, hosted by ed Zitron. Once or twice a week. They show about the tech industry and tech world and all things happening there. It is wonderful. And we also have a new new weekly show hosted by Jamie Loftus called Sixteenth Minute of Fame. It's all about the Internet's main characters and what happened to them after they went viral. So check that out
and everything else for cool Zone at cool Zone Media. Molly, you're at Socialist dog Mom on Twitter at Craig and that's me. Did I forget anything else? Starboard? Did we do all the things?
Nope?
Yes?
Yes, great bye, Go ride a dinosaur.
Yeah. Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.