It Could Happen Here Weekly 28

are falling apart and how to maybe put them back together. Obviously, the biggest story probably in the world right now is the ongoing invasion of Ukraine. In a major corollarrea of that story is how dramatically things in Russia have taken a turn for the totalitarian um. The country has become

increasingly isolated from most of the global community. This is due to a mix of sanctions to a lot of businesses pulling out just because of the social consequences of not doing so, uh end of policies that have been put down by Putin's government in order to crack down on dissent and further remove Russia from any kind of contact with the West. UM. As a result, it's kind of difficult to get in touch with people who are

resisting Putin's government from within Russia. UM anarchist activists in particular, UM are not easy people to reach. However, we did recently sit down with one of these individuals and talk to them, so this episode will both be an interview with that person and a bit of history about the anarchist movements within Russia. Russia has actually a very long history of anarchist organizing. Two of them in generally considered

foundational thinkers and anarchists political theory. Mikhail Bakunin and Peter Kropotkin were both born in Russia. Both lived and agitated under the Tsars. Bakunan was an advocate and a major theorist of political terrorism. He fled the country, was returned, and ultimately spent like ten years in prison there. Kropotkin was the author of a seminal anarcho munist text titled The Conquest of Bread, and he was only able to return to Russia after the nineteen seventeen Revolution. He died

there in nineteen twenty one. It's also worth noting that Peter Kropotkin is canonically the ancestor to Tommy Pickles of the rug Rats, but that's something you can look up on your own now. While some of the most influential anarchists in history were Russian and anarchist organizing was a potent part of pre nineteen seventeen Russian political history, the success of the Bolsheviks after nineteen seventeen led to the

movements near annihilation. Um Emma Goldman was yet another major anarchist, activist and thinker who was born and educated in Russia. She immigrated to the United States in eighteen eighty five, where she promptly helped try to assassinate a steel magnate in revenge for his brutality against striking workers. Goldman grew to prominence as a labor activist and women's rights activist

in the last decade of the eighteen hundreds. In nineteen o one, her work helped inspire Leon Chogosh to assassinate President William McKinley. While Emma Goldman had no direct connection to Chogash, she defended his actions by saying, as an anarchist, I am opposed to violence, but if the people want to do away with assassins. They must do away with

the conditions which produced murderers. There's much more to say about him, Agoldman, but for our purposes, what matters is that she was arrested for opposing the draft in World War One and eventually deported back to Russia. Right after the revolution. Goldman was initially psyched that the czars had been deposed, but quickly became disillusioned by the violence of

the forming totalitarian Soviet state. She considered this a betrayal of the revolution and wrote a series of articles for The New York World that have gone down as one of the first expose as of conditions in the Soviet Union. Goldman's work was criticized by many left wing intellectuals outside of Russia, but she was correct about political repression in the new Bolshevik workers paradise. Matters did not improve for anarchists in the first twenty years of the new regime.

In nineteen thirty seven, in his History of Anarchism in Russia, E. Yorroslansky wrote, in the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics, at the present time, the anarchists no longer enjoy any influence over the masses. They are met with only as isolated individualists. The fall of the Soviet Union, the coming of democracy, and the slow rise to power of Vladimir Putin did not enormously alter this state of affairs. Russian anarchists still

exercise relatively little influence over the masses. Most of them struggle towards autonomy as isolated individuals. In March of twenty twenty two, in the third week of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I sat down with one of these people. We had been chatting online through Reddit for a couple of weeks, and the process of setting up a proper audio interview was difficult. To say the least repression of

all political descent under Putin is extreme. More than thirteen thousand people were arrested at anti war protests in the first two weeks of the war, so you will understand why our source was paranoid about his identity. I had to download a secure app I'd never even heard of before, and he only agreed to speak with me while using

a voice changing application to further disguise his identity. Due to the difficulties this created, I will be paraphrasing him and quoting his words myself at a couple of points here in order to make listening to this a more comfortable experience. But here he is okay, polytics or what years or so it's bicycle and into weak two years ago. Was so, just to make it clear, he's saying that he's been involved in anarchist organizing for more than a

decade since around two thousand eleven. The initial cell he organized with was affiliated with an umbrella organization called Autonomous Action. We'll talk about them more in a minute, but it's important you understand his cell, at about fifty people strong, was considered quite large for Russia in Moscow inspects. I guess in the artists in links whatever, or they were worked for rent of course, and there were more or I wasn't considered even in two thousand eleven, organizing as

an anarchist was rather risky. As a result, our source actually started his career in activism on his own. As a single protester. He would stand out in public places, sometimes during other protests, sometimes on his own, holding a sign that said in Russian peace to the world. Now I'm reading you the English translation of what he put the literal Russian words that he had on his sign were a reference to a famous Soviet slogan officially adopted

in nineteen fifty one. The phrase actually has a much older origin in the country, which begins under the Orthodox Church and grew more popular among revolutionaries after the February Revolution. The first leftist to use peace to the World as a slogan in Russia may have actually been a f Krinsky, who headed the brief democratic government that ran things after

the czar stepped down. In our sources case, his sign was an act of protest against a number of things, including the recent Russian invasion of Georgia and Russian military operations in Syria. Oscar Pass questions against the stuff stuff uh almost or Winter sent home. After he'd been seen doing this for a while, members of a local anarchist self found this person and started asking them questions, Hey, who are you, what are you doing? What do you

think of this? And that he was not specific about the individual political questions they answered, and we probably don't need to get into that. They invited him eventually to a building where a number of them tended to gather and prepare for actions. In short order, they started organizing together. At the time our source started organizing as an anarchist. The most notorious recent action was the Kimki forest conflict. In brief, Kimki is a forest with a long history

as in nature preserve. It's kind of outside of Moscow. It's so densely forest that in the sixteen hundreds and then in the early eighteen hundreds, when the Russians were resisting Napoleon, it was used by partisans and insurgents as a base of operations. When the Bolsheviks took over, it was preserved to act as a sort of open air therapy center for tuberculosis patients. In the early two thousands, local city planners started to advocate for a toll road

to be built through the middle of the forest. Their argument was that a large amount of traffic passed through the Leningrad Highway and that had caused huge amounts of air pollution in the city of Kimki. Since the forest was protected by national environmental codes, turning it into a road was a long political process. Activists protested, arguing that

it would be an environmental disaster which spoilers. It was like anarchists in the United States in the period before the Green Scare, Russian anarchists carried out a series of occupation actions to try and protect the wild lands. So it was ver it was against lance podcast or inflection, oh fascists, the shield someone in the trains once in the end, it was in two twelve, shortly after our source began participating in anarchist demonstrations, the government carried out

a major crackdown against certain anarchist activists. They focused primarily on groups and individuals who were doing things like making Molotov cocktails and engaging in property destruction. Now our source participated in food not bombs and other non aggressive types of direct action, most of which involved handing out food and supplies to people who are helping them to get resources.

He did not disavow insurrectionary anarchists the kind of people who threw bombs, but that wasn't the kind of thing he did, and he didn't have a lot of connections with those people because roughly a year after he started organizing as an anarchist, most of them in his area at least got cracked down on and either killed, forced out of the country, or arrested by the government. This crackdown on insurrectionary Russian anarchists led to an even more

paranoid security culture. Among those who remained. Our source and his comrades mostly distributed food, but they also provided support for a large number of children whose families had abandoned them due to crushing poverty. Even though these things were not illegal, they had to maintain intense security culture to avoid being part of future crackdowns. First, don't talk to anyone or special companization. No, don't care, don't get them.

Infresition means no one. Long standing tradition among Russian anarchists was a sort of defensive isolation. People gave each other as little information as possible about their real identities. As a result, despite the fact that he has participated in multiple protests since the invasion of Ukraine and people have been arrested at those protests, our source insists that he doesn't know if any of his comrades have been taken

into custody. Now. Some of this probably has to do with the fact that he's not organizing in a major city, um, but a lot of it probably has to do with the fact that he just doesn't particularly know any people by name. Polls, which are imperfect but cannot be entirely discounted suggest that most Russian civilians support the war and their military. Even so, the scope and scale of the anti war protests in Russia have beggared anything from recent memory.

Our source says that this has actually helped to mitigate some of the despair you might expect Russian anarchists to feel, given the Titanic increase in state repression. From what I know from what I see, monitor uh Alsto came to get to get help at last. An artists there if maybe won't hear go or real they were just like, oh, come on, we can do it all everything and we'll just again the NFSP won't find us whatever. No, there is no despair at last, we don't see it. There

are lots of action. There are lots of preparation from what I understand, or not only artists, but all the radical firms or gathering in Russia or in Moscow, in Saint Aspera obviously because the most epicenter of everything there not not on the ragons. I guess, oh yeah, soustraints. So it's probably time that we talk about autonomous action or a D. The Revolutionary Anarchist Federation that our friend and his comrades are affiliated with a D actually has

members in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine. It was founded in two thousand two and briefly had affiliates in Armenia before they disbanded in two thousand five. That's a story in and of itself. A D advocates direct action in order to quote create a tradition and basis for a new humanist culture, social self organization and radical resistance against militarism, capitalism, sexism, and fascism. They consider the existing government of Russia as

entirely illegitimate. They refused to take part in Russian electoral politics, seeing even left wing opposition parties as essentially controlled by Putin and only existing to provide a sham vision of choice. A D activists called themselves the Autonomy and see their calling is twofold, to exist as autonomous, free individuals within an unfree system and to spread revolutionary sentiment and weaken

the state. Much has been said in the West of Alexei Navalny, a Russian opposition politician who, whatever else you might say about him, is certainly not controlled opposition. He has survived an assassination attempt by the Putin regime and is currently incarcerated after leaving his exile in the West to return to Russia and fight the sham case against

him in court. No one can doubt that Navalny possesses significant physical courage, and it seems fair to say the man believes in what he says, AIDI Activists, from what I have seen, do not fault him in his willingness to suffer for his beliefs, but they believe that he is at the very least deeply misguided. Navalny, they say, holds to a fundamentally errant belief that Russia could ever

be a parliamentary democracy in the Western tradition. Their argument is that corruption, investigations and electoralism are useless in Russia and always have been, and from a historical standpoint, it

is difficult to argue with these claims. Autonomous Action members do not support the Ukrainian state, and I have read articles from them where they describe the conflict in the Dawn Bass, which simmered for eight years before exploding into the current conflagration, as two fascist paramilitary forces backed by two capitalist governments. However, they have been consistent for years that the proper stance of Russian anarchists is to support

the Ukrainian people against aggression from the Russian state. Before Putin commenced his broader invasion. In February of this year, Autonomous Action published an article with the title why we should support Ukraine quote Putin is not just the gendarme of Europe, but the gendarme of the whole world, from Syria to Myanmar. Whenever a dictator tortures and kills thousands of his old people, Putin is there to support him.

There are no elections in Russia anymore. Even the most moderate attempts to change something results in criminal cases and persecutions. I do not believe that the result of this yet another round of threatening declarations and building up pressure, is a full scale war, But as the conflict is not disappearing, a full scale war may start after five to ten years, even as a result of a cycle of escalation, even

if no one really wants it. And in case of a full scale war, we should be on the Ukrainian side. As Mala Testa said, for me, there is no doubt that the worst of democracies is always preferable, if only from the educational point of view, then the best of dictatorships neutrality and a war between Ukraine and Russia would mean neutrality in an invasion of a democracy by a dictatorship. Now our source concurs with the extant evidence that Russian

citizens still broadly support the war. As I stated earlier, nant attacking Russia with Nost don't know. He was certain to acknowledge that there's still a great deal of propaganda, largely pro NATO propaganda on the anti war side of things. Given the information situation within his country, he admitted that he'd had difficulty parsing some things out, while acknowledging that his side also lacked perfect information. He felt that their stance against the war was safe because in the end

it opposed blood letting. We can claim on the kind of waganda or the West are crowing, sam If even if you're under some kind of waganda, even West Western is basically a case as well, you're still of this

your side because you don't want to. He did admit that a number of people in his life, family and close friends, knew about his political sympathies, and he claims that the outbreak of war are in the massive futalitarian swing Putin has taken over the last month have caused some of these people to be more open to his beliefs. So I'm kind of open just on talking to one w one of the people much pants. Oh my friends, do you know what what kind of stuff what I'm

into or the war or the just came to me. However, personally, Hey, you've been precurring for that, so for years you've been telling us, hold us for years. I thought you BERNOI and not understand. You're right, wander water. So we don't have people know about what gives no the picture At the moment. The political situation within Russia is tremendously uncertain. All manner of dubious sources have claimed that a palace

coup is in the offering or has been attempted. Some have even spoken of the possibility of a revolution, or at least a massive protest campaign that forces Putin from office. Our source did not consider that likely in the unlikely event the government collapsed entirely. He was not particularly optimistic about what might result. You mentioned the central Wist governments and there is no they just just or oh, it's

a science. He mentioned me that a number of his loved ones had come forward recently to ask what they ought to do. I asked how he responded it to that question. Right now, we try to organize and help you all because there is a there is a chance or currency local stuffing, and we'll just need to survive. That's the first thing. Quick, So organization and interactions are available than any currents or now for well, I see it with the way. Uh. Second thing is that we

need to training or start. I guess there is there is a term in English case the very weak don't pour when you have all infrastructure. Basically, for now we need to have from enough folding of water points we all can train even with the form rooms people to cularly mentioned the revolutionary importance of finding some way to

either smuggle or produce medical supplies and medications. He knows one person who already had to flee the country because his wife could no longer get the medicine she needed. He mentioned the sanctions levied against Russia as a major issue for regular working people, but when I asked what he felt Western countries could do in this conflict, he

was actually quite focused on something else. Entirely. He believes the United States has access to high quality satellite images of what happened in the immediate lead up to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Putin's government justified much of their invasion on so called attacks from the Ukrainian government that

they claim it escalated against the separatist regions. Our source believes his government is lying about this law or point many states, so here's the same thing, or yeah, we need to cover of course it's been goin So it's I don't believe that Ukraine or being with let's say,

let's a military power compared to Russia or not. So she stuff yea, so we didn't need those things covered published at least maybe not as long as possibly canst still walking on would at least it's helpful people see you get there are points queer from crom It's pretty good. Since the invasion, it has gotten notably harder, but not impossibly hard for Russian citizens to get information about the

conflict that does not come from the Kremlin. Our starts explained how he does it a combination of using VPNs and understanding the nature of authoritarian propaganda. In short, even when the government is lying to you, you can get an idea of what the truth is by understanding what they want you to believe, work stuff, all sources, what science I saw it, or Korean side, Russian side, great side. Oh so find and staff as well. I don't really believe me. Let's see firsts because they are past. They

say what's goins? What's they're trying to contain to points? Or if you have a say okay, let's put this one. Uh. When Russian Ministry of Foreign offers selling or solution and at the same time we hear all the Syrians, Syrian or mercenaries are going to rail uh. For for me, it means one thing they want to us Paul or the pointing to get some time, so professional sources or

council racially. He felt that one way US activists could be helpful to Russian activists was by continuing to document and study the different munitions and tactics used by police in cracking down on demonstrations. He noticed that Russian police used similar and sometimes even the same weapons to the ones that the US police used on out in protests. He believes the documentation done to study these weapons is

helpful to people all around the world. He expressed some frustration at friends and colleagues of his who after years of failing to truly grapple with the degree to which Putin had centralized power. We're now fleeing Russia to avoid living under an increasingly totalitarian state. A swampoint colleagues, I guess of her radio whatever trying to support me like

stuff scoring along the sports Russians. Yes, if that's for him, trying to blame him expence, And that's why against this, before against the commons, he has decided to stay and

to resist. While he has admitted to now studying martial arts and military tactics, he did not have high hopes for any kind of confrontation with the Russian state, and as a generally peaceable person, he has decided that he will continue to resist in the way that makes the most sense to him, by helping people and providing them with things that they will increasingly need. Is the economic

situation in Russia degrades further for me? How many people most kind of since constant sense of that's for at least six years or one. Uh. But then understood that once a thing about archists and wish I call myself and you before I call myself an larchists, then I should make once a thing. Oh we need to before it's all ah, welcome to it could happen here the podcast where this Today I sit down with my buddy Jake Hanrahan and we talk about Corsica Jake, are you

how's the showy? How you how you feeling? Yeah, I'm all right. Thanks. I got a bit of a flu, but otherwise everything's really good. One Yeah, um, we you just took a little reporting trip um down to the island of corsica Um, which is not a place I know much about, and I'm going to guess not a place most of our listeners know much about. So why don't you Why don't you start with kind of like what what brought you down there? Yeah? No, it's a really good point. A lot of people don't even know

it exists. I sent the documentary made Um with Pular Front to a friend of mine today and he said, brother, that's the first time I've ever heard of Coursico. Like, a lot of people don't know about It's so it's a very old island, um. You know, in more than two hundred years people have inhabited the place, but generally for the last kind of two hundred years there's been an on again, off again independence movement. They're people that don't want to be under the control of France or whoever.

They want control of their own island. Because Corsican is quite a specific culture. Um, it's very different to French culture, it's different to Italian culture. They even have their own language called course. Unfortunately, it's kind of dying out, as you know, a lot of languages do in kind of contested areas if you like. Um. But yeah, so so they've always kind of wanted to be independent in some way.

Not everybody, not the whole place. I'm sure you'll find some course because that will say their course of Confrench. But generally the majority of people if you go there and say, well are you there to are you with Corsican?

We're not French with Corsican. So in the nineties seventies, that kind of coalesced was rebirthed, if you like, with the backdrop of you know, guns, bombs and independence movements of course Europe and a group called the f l n C formed the Nationalist Liberation Front for Corsica and they arrived with twenty one bombs on the island in

one night. I mean not arrived, you know, they were already there, of course, but they bombed twenty one times in one night, mostly French infrastructure, and they were all

very very well armed. There was literally hundreds of members and at one point I have to I don't want to say this because it's been a while since I looked at the research, but if I'm right, at one point in the in the late seventies or early eighties, the Effllency was actually the most active militant or terrorist group in the whole of Europe, even even more active than the provision i RA now privileged IRA called a lot more people the FLNC. Their targets weren't really to

kill people. They were to blow up holiday homes and blow up French infrastructure. They didn't have open gun battles, and they did assassinate the the highest ranking French officer on Corsica on the island eventually. But yeah, so so there was this real backdrop of very militant um independence. When I say nationalists, it's not it's not what we

might associate with like far right nationalists. You know, when an independent movement doesn't have its own country, you know, the ultra nationalism in their sense comes out in a very different way. It's not we want to ban everybody else from here. It's simply we want our country, you know what I mean. So when I say ultra nationalists, that's not to be confused with fascist ultra nationalist. It's very different. Not to say that couskins all believe in

in leftist causes and that that wouldn't be true. A lot of them do. There's a big socialist element to to the cause, and there's also quite a right we element to the cause. But ultimately they all kind of want the same thing, autonomy or independence of Corsica. So yeah, So that that's the kind of history very briefly of

militant independence movements in Corsica. FLNC put down their guns and recently one of the fln C was suspected FLNC militants who shot this this high ranking French official that I told you about. Um this this guy is called Evan Colina. He was arrested m after the shooting in the nineties and sent to a French prison for life. And on March the sixth, I believe it was, he was no very much. Second, he was attacked in a French prison by a Jahadic inmate and beaten into a

coma yesterday or two days ago. Now he died of his injuries. Ever since he was beaten into this comma, the youth would just kind of lit the place on fire, you know. They were really clashing very violently. And for for the last kind of seven years, since there was as a was a relative calm on the island in terms of collectivism and militancy. The politicians, the more moderate parties have tried to do this politically and for the first time in a while, the youth have gone, no,

fuck it, We're not playing that anymore. We're we're going to knock the place about. We're going to smash the shop up. And basically it's kind of worked, which we can go into. But yeah, so sorry to go on a lot, but there's quite a lot to it because obviously, like you said, a lot of people don't know. But one thing I always say is courtA is just one of the most beautiful places anybody will go to. Like objectively,

it's idyllic. It's not really had this horrible holiday home vibe there because genuinely, when when some contractors tried to kind of gentrify a course to come and turn it into the next ib through. I believe one of the quotes was from one of the people doing this. The f l n C kind of waited for them to build their homes and then blew them all up and blew up all their hotels. So it was like they're like,

you're not going to do that here. A lot of these companies were infringing on the environment, which is beautiful there. And yeah, so there's a lot more to it, but generally, you know, this all kind of revolves around militant independence. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I I I think it's fascinating the idea of targeting, like the degree to which a lot of this seems to be focused on stopping this place from turning into another vacation destination or like rich

people's second homes push out the population that's born there. Um. I think there's a lot of places that, like, uh, organizer complain about that sort of thing. Um, But I'm not aware of anyone who's gone to these kind of lengths to stop themselves from turning into another a visa. Yeah. Yeah, And honestly, if you go to Corsica and see how beautiful it is, not just I mean, it's one of the few places in Europe where you can see the mountains from the beach. You know, it's the incredible island.

I've been obsessed with this place since I was about twenty four years old, firstly from the nature and the beauty there, but secondly I was very interested in the militant group there, um because the culture there was so different. But yeah, if you look at the place, you go there and you realize, like, right, this place is very much worth preserving. I don't want to act like there hasn't been businesses doing their thing there. There definitely is,

but certainly it feels preserved. There's no high rises. All of the old buildings are still there and they're still intact. And you know when when these big businesses came in and a lot of these businessmen were almost showing off like yeah, we're gonna turn course of Carns waib Etha, which as a brit Um I would apologize to anyone living inever, you know, like having sex in the street and throwing up at bars and everything. Here you go there, Um, it's kind of been turned into one big not the

great club, yeah yeah, not the great club definitely. Yeah. So so you know, it's it's one of these ones where it's like I could kind of understand. I'm not saying anyone should bomb anywhere, certainly not, but I do understand the sentiment there. And one of the one of my course and friends said, um, some people were calling it like the cold bed policy. So you come to our island, you buy a holiday home, and if you leave that bed cold as in you're not even living here,

it's going to get blown up, you know if you like. So. Very militant, very violent, but effective. I mean, it doesn't mean that you have to agree with it, but no one can deny that it hasn't been effective. But at the same time, there's a very big mafia presence on the island as well, so that you know, it's not to say that everything is all for the people. I'm going to guess that the mafia is more or less on the side of, you know, turn this place into

a vacation destination because that's where the money is. That that would be my essentially. Really that's interesting. No, so the unfortunately the independence movement, not all of them, but there is an element to it that is very hand in hand with the mafia. Most definitely. Perhaps some people that were independent militants are now mafia if you like. Um, and people have been killed on the island quite a lot. There's quite a lot of you know, unsold of murders

that it's quite sad um. But no, they they were more for keeping their own interests. You know, Um, we have this island, we can run the docks, we can run this, we can run that. And whilst what you said like makes sense, right, you would think, oh, no, they'd be for this money. I think what they want. They're still nationalists. At the end of the day. They won't control, but they won't control in their own way.

And the big business comes in and start saying, oh, yeah, we're doing this and that and the other, and we're bringing all these people in by the docks. I guess they lose control of that essentially. So they were very much on the side of yeah, do what you like sort of thing, and I think fascinating, so very unique, very specific place. You mentioned that this action you shut up for people bombed twenty one targets in one night. In one night. Yeah, when you say bomb, are we

talking like your standard malatabs or were they are? Were they kind of like more elaborate devices. Shall we say, how would you describe what they were using? Yeah, a good question. I mean when you think of twenty one in one night, you think, right like monotor small night, something simple. Yeah, yeah, no, No, there weren't even pipe wombs.

You're talking fertilizer bombs. Yeah, like blowing the whole buildings, you know, not all of them, you know, there were some smaller ones, but some very significant ones um and very very big. The way of Corsica is the way it's laid out. Like I said, it's a small place. I think currently like three people lived there roughly, and there were mountains, there were beaches, there were very rural communities,

eight's and islands. It's quite far away from France, actually, it's very close to Italy um and Sardinia is just to it south. And it's just for them. If you were you couldn't ask for a better location, if you wanted to be a kind of guerrilla group, you know, you really couldn't. It's kind of built for them. So they just got away with it, you know, farmers whatever, they went into the mountains, build bombs dropped them off.

And not to say that everybody was for them, but there is some It wasn't just we want independence, there was there was subjugation by the French. You know. Firstly, they're like, we don't want to be a French colony or whatever you would call it anymore, which I think anybody that wants their determination to not be held by our former colonial power, it's fine, or current colonial power if you like, I think, yeah, fair play to them.

But secondly, they're one of the most poorer regions, despite having all this holiday stuff, despite having a lot of produce, despite having a lot of reasons to be there. So there's definitely something. I won't claim to know too much about the law situation, and I'm sure a lot of French people get angry whatever, but it is genuinely doing very badly in many different aspects. Is that mismanagement by them? Is it because of the French? I couldn't tell you.

I don't know enough about it, but I certainly find it very weird that all of these beautiful things that happened on the island and they're they're constantly in you know, the lower bracket of situations economically, culturally, they're getting kind of sidelined a bit so I do. I do understand, and certainly when the clashes or even protests happen in the seventies, the police, you know, French police. I'm sorry, but there's some of the worst fucking police ever, you know.

And I've been in front of Turkish police, like French police are fucking up there. They're horrible, and they beat the ship out of a lot of people in Cortica just for peacefully protesting, you know. So it didn't come from nowhere, you know what I mean? There is there is more to it than just nationalism and independence. There's a lot more to it. They wanna, they want to they want to deal with their own affairs, a lot of them, you know, most people probably now want to

do it democratically. But like I said, the youth were said, no funk, that we're not getting anywhere, and they've Actually it's actually worked because the day after the riots that we filmed on March thirteen, the Interior Minister of France basically said, right, we're willing to discuss this with you. We will go as far as autonomy. That's literally a quote he said, which is quite significant. Yeah, after seven

years of basically stalemate through the politicians. So the youth in a way, one of the very few examples of this, specifically in Europe, the youth, what they're doing kind of worked, you know what I mean, Like directly action got got some goods, started the process of getting the goods hopefully. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, it has. And the thing about the course scan youth is they're very intelligent, they're very they're very authentic in their political activism in the sense of it's just they're

born into it. It's in them, you know, from the age of like twelve thirteen, they're understanding it. They're getting told about the legends of blah blah, you know, um, there's there's militant group and whatever whatever. So there's very much in them in that sense, kind of in a you know, like the Kurds are kind of you know, not on the same level, but that kind of vibe. So when they go to students, when they go to UNI and they become students, they're not really forming their

political opinions. They already have them, they already got them, and then they they sort of higher, they sort of germinate together. So that's from what I understood anyway, that's from what I gathered and you know, your average trendy young man and woman on the street there is very political.

It's kind of like Greece in that sense, like it's cool to be political, but in the sense of not the kind not like um, you know, not not something you brought into as a teenager, something that was already there and then which which there is nothing wrong with it. You know, most people fall in their political opinions in unis or whatever, but for them, it's already in there, you see what I'm saying. So they already have they're

already united in that sense, you know. So when they get to the UNI, they get there it's like, okay, well we all want independence or autonomy, but then the other things are lesser, so you know, for that in that really, in that sense, I think that was quite interesting.

And we saw eight thousand, nine thousand people marching maybe and then when the clashes started, you know, it is well, but like normally it's like what a hundred three people stay talking, like two thousand people help clashing, and men and women like young girls, young men, like many many, you know, So it was really I was like, wow, okay, and one one thing that I've never I have seen

for a very long time. I've very rarely seen it. Normally, when the clash happens, everybody, you know, your grandma's, you're working man, you know, the people that support what's going on but are not able to clash or don't want

to clash, they normally step back. In the Coursicum protests, everybody just stayed like we were getting tear gas next to like fifty lads with balaclabas on, next to like grandma or auntie, you know, and we're like helping people into the side street to get away from tear gas. It's very weird. They just didn't leave. They just were there the whole time. It's weird when you're talking about like tactically, what is this, How are these kind of

bombings being pulled off? As so you've got like this huge crowd and they're just kind of like marching from target to target. Um. So the youth are not really I mean, they have some small kind of I D s you know what I'm saying, that youth student youth protesters, but generally it's Molotov's bricks, burning barricades. But they very clearly know the island inside out. They know their streets,

you know, obviously because they lived there. And most of the police, from what I understand, are actually French called in from the island, from the mainland, sorry to the island. A lot of the CRS riot police, thousands of them were brought in. There was that they were actually completely outnumbered. They had to retreat at one point in in the evening to go back to the prefecture kind of cultural French administrative building where the main the main target of

violence was. They had to retreat to get more ammunition because they just they just shot so much tiggas um. They just couldn't, you know, they couldn't do anything. There were some teams, like the youth. Some of them had green arm bands or green leg bands, so they were very clearly like a different unit, and they were very well organized. They didn't have walkie talkies, mind you normally that that shows a closer sign of organization. But some

of them were like that. Some of them were just turned up to fight, and some of them were splitting off into different groups. You would see one come in, they'd fight, fight, fight, and then they'd leave and as they're leaving, another load would just come in the line. It was. It was really quite interesting. You know, they'd really thought about it. Um, it wasn't just a free

for all, which it might look like. But you know, after a while of covering riots, there's certain things you notice where you're like, Okay, they're planning this, they're planning that, you know what I'm saying. So it's quite interesting in that sense. Um, but yeah, man, it's yeah, thousands of thousands of youth fighting. Um, it did get messy. I think forty four police were injured, thirteen protesters and one pedestrian.

That was the official figures. I saw at least three pedestrians injured, and I think probably more protesters and definitely more cops, I would say. Yeah. I mean, obviously it also depends on like what you're raiding as an injury for that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah, And a lot of folks probably are avoiding the hospitals and being dealt with at homes and whatnot because they were committing some crimes. Yeah, just like you know, at home with superglue in seat

of stitches or whatever. Yeah. Do you have a sense of like how long? But the kind of the back end of this was the preparation process was for this. Yeah, so the classes have been ongoing before we got there for about a week. So even Colinar was beaten into this coma. He was he was attacked in prison. There's some rumors that he said some kind of Islamophobic thing to the inmate, and don't know how true that is, but all we know is the guy was actually, you know,

convicted jahadist. It's not kind of hear say that the guy the inmate was a convicted jahadist because obviously even Colinar is in the type of prison where what the state says is terrorists are there, you know what I mean, anybody terrorists is there, So it makes sense he's amongst these people. And I think he was attacked in the gym when he was on his own and he was strangled, and this this is where yeah, yeah, this is where

there's a weird point of contention. He because of the special status he had as such a violent militant or whatever, he shouldn't have really been in on his own like that. And some people were speculating did something happen, But generally most people we spoke to were like it was probably just negligence, you know, They weren't very conspiratory. There was someone like, oh the French, the French plan is I

doubt it. It doesn't make much sense to do this right now, Like you know, they would knew what would happen to be on calling to the people. Sorry if he've on Colling. I was hurt because he's a big you know, a big name there. There's also some you know, maybe interesting arguments around the case, the way he was arrested. Apparently the gun doesn't match up. I don't know. I didn't really get into that, but either way, he's like a you know, people they love him, you know what

I'm saying. He's like a matter for them, even though you know, he shot this guy in the back in in cold blood essentially, but for them that was a political assassination whatever. So so for about a week, the youth were fighting, and I saw a video and anything that happens in course, I'm like, right, I'm looking at it, and I was like, okay, this this is a little bit different. Okay, molotovs are out again. Hasn't haven't seen

that for a while. And then the next day and then the next day, and then it spread one night to like five different cities or like sorry, three different cities, like big, big places, and then they burned like a very specific monument, so that was like, oh it's on. So for at least a week they were they were planning something, you know, and there was enough kind of

um momentum there, I think for them to organize. Certainly, we know that there was people from a jat CEO of the capital city in Bastia where we filmed it, like a lot of people drove in, they came you know, specifically for this clash, so that was quite interesting. I think the youth movement have a very strong network there, and there's also quite a big football ultra scene there. So the day before the clashes, Bastia and the JATSO

had a derby. So obviously I imagine a lot of the ultras, or at least I know a lot of the ultras were also part of the independence groupings and part of the clashes, so I imagine that a lot of the football ultras kind of organized you know, you know, the match the day before or at least a week before, so I think there was quite a lot of organization there. You know, what do you feel like is next? Is

this the case? Do you get the sense that because the government has announced their willingness to sit down and talk, that maybe folks are going to wait to follow up this or do you get the sense that they're going to kind of keep the pressure on. Well, the thing is, there was one option before Evan Colonard died, and now there's a new option that he's died. You see what

I'm saying. Before, I think what you're saying would have would have happened, like I mean, I don't know, but I think that youth would have they would have held off the fact that the Interior Minister of France, who answers directly to mcron within one day or less than one day, said we're willing to go as far as autonomy in these discussions. Stop being violent. I think the youth was smart enough to realize, all right, let's stop,

let's see what he's got to say. I'm sure if things faltered, if things didn't move quick enough, they would have very quickly stepped up the stepped up the violence again. However, now that even Colin has died, I don't think that they're just gonna wait now. From what I understand from speaking to contacts and friends in Corsica. There's a period of mourning right now. You know his funeral. He died in a prison in Marseille. He wasn't even transferred to to Corsica to die, So for a lot of them,

that's incredibly offensive. That's the kind of spark that started these clashes. It's all about independence and autonomy on one level, but the thing that drove this and sparked it was even Colonize attack, and and the fact that there's a lot of course cam prison prisoners, which are political prisoners, are in prison in Frances at the Corsica anyway. So now that he has died, I really think that there will be a moment of calm due to the funeral

and respect for even Colin arm whatever. Then I think maybe a week after this week, I think it's almost inevitable that we will see some form of violence again. I've spoken to some people that are maybe going a bit far, maybe being a bit dramatic. I don't know, but they speculate that there will be a little bit more than just clashes. One one person I know said, I think they're going to blow something up again. Do I think that, probably not, But certainly when we were

in the streets they were using. There's there's photos of it as well. They were using very crude but very small, improvised explosive devices. Now, when a group even starts to do that, you know, okay, it's a very small device. It was in a kind of like a basically a tennis ball type thing with it with whatever in it. But it was fucking loud. It wouldn't really do much unless it probably blow up right next to your foot.

But when they're even considering that, in my experience, that tells you that people are there's an element that are ready to go further up the ladder to the next level. Does that mean they're going to blow somewhere up. I don't know. I don't see it personally. You know, these these young people are very clever. I think that would be in an insane decision because it would France would have no option but to basically flood the island with a lot more police and maybe even military type police.

I don't know, maybe not, but but yeah, anyway, we'll see what happens. But again, my point is not not that I think this is gonna happen, But there's that talk which we haven't seen that kind of talk in Corsica for quite a while, you know what I mean, And there's actually people now genuinely worried like Okay, where's this going to go? Which can never be a good thing.

I guess the French state really has to be careful here, and I think the fact they've now said we're gonna go as far as autonomy, maybe they at the very least have to be shown to be doing that very quickly. I think, you know. Otherwise, for a lot of people in Corsica, it's like even Colin Colinar died in Vain, I guess, and it's not just the youth, it's everybody, even people that perhaps really don't like that the youth

were fighting, really don't support that level of violence. They still support Evan Coliner and a very sad he's dead, you see what I'm saying, and the way he died, And even even past DNFC, the football team and one of the main football teams in Courtsco, they said, are you know, we're very sad that he's dead. You know, hero has died that kind of thing, so he's a very He's seen as a Martineau definitely, Yeah, I mean

that's a predictable outcome from killing the guys in prison. Um, right, right, right, right, So we're kind of in this like waiting to see what the next step is. Then I guess, like the it's it's kind of this weird sort of like political liminal space. I guess where the next steps are. There's a number of things that could happen. Um, yeah, definitely, it's this very everything's in transition. It's it's very it's it's either calm before the storm, or it's calm that

turns into something positive. But I I just don't see, you know, after almost two weeks of extremely violent clashes, very well organized, after seeing them on the ground as well, these are brave lads, these and women as well. These are not your kind of average weekend warriors. They're very, very up for it. Um you know how people clash in Paris, like French people, they're very up. As soon

as final they'll fight, you know. Um, it's like that times ten for from what I experienced, because it's got the the kind of incubated nationalist identity separate from France, but whilst also having kind of fiery French culture and fiery Italian culture influences and fiery Corsican culture. Um not to say that they're not very nice people. Everyone was absolutely lovely, very very friendly, but you can tell they're you know, there are fiery people. They're active, they're about it,

they mean what they say. So I don't think that the youth will just go quietly from this essentially a political prisoner m A. Martin now and then for them to just go, Okay, we'll just relax now. I don't

see it. You go. You're talking from like you know, probably in the full week of clashes, maybe four or five thousand people together throwing rocks, burning barricades, throwing small improvised devices at cops, to then just to go to nothing after even Colonarde dies, I would be very very surprised. I think the only way that that would happen would be for France to go, okay, here's your autonomy, and then that energy could be turned into a celebration. What

I'm saying that should or shouldn't happen. I just think theoretically that's the only way that it could avoid violence, because the energy is there. Now, you see what I'm saying, not on like an essterry level, it's just the level of like they're revved up, they're ready, you know, in the attitude, the kind of it's in the air. It's

in the air right now. So you published just a couple of days ago, your a little documentary like short documentary from Popular Front which footage a little dispatch which has footage from this um, which people should definitely check out, especially if they'd like to see some of the tactics that we've talked about UM on this this episode so far.

Is there anywhere else you might recommend they go for further reading on this subject UM not not to be um, oh you're only Popular front um, but we we have. It's just something that I've just been specifically fascinating and obsessed with for a long time. So when the time came,

I was very well prepared. Everyone has said like, oh, you know, this is this is crazy, like, you know, how did you understand all of this so quickly, because I've been reading about it and and the problem with a lot of the French reporting is, you know, it's it's naturally very fresh, skewed. It's a little bit sneary, like all the island people are kicking off again, whereas it's like, no, come on like this, it's an incredible,

beautiful place. Of course they want to preserve it. Of course they want to control it in whatever way they want to. So again it's very difficult, but I will say that there are some really good reporters um there. There's a a friend of mine from Corsica, Lionel Doomus. He runs like a thing called um Corsican passport or were used to, which was kind of kind of humorous but at the same time in our news about kind of course and related um patriotic stuff. And then who

we worked with, Jean Colinar. He's not related to m Yvonne. Like it's it's quite a you know, common COmON last name, Yeah exactly, yeah, so us it sounds quite you know, right, you must be related, but over there it's like not Smith, but you know it's quite common. Um, so yeah, Jean Colinar, he's great. And there's also the local papers in Corsica course, Mattin. They're really good. You might have to translate stuff, but they're very on the ball, you know what I mean

that they're focused on everything. So if people are interested in it, honestly, I would say like seek out local French reporters. From what I gathered as well, there's there's a quiet, but really thriving kind of youth media. I wouldn't say it's a it's a movement, but there's something growing there, you know. I spoke before I went out. I spoke to quite a few reporters, really nice people, really enthusiastic, really you know, love loving their island, but

not full of hatred or anything like that. That that's something that I've seen a lot of French people say, oh, Corsicans are really full of hatred, their racist, They're blah blah. And it's like, I didn't experience that. And at the same time, it's like have you been to Paris, right, yeah, yeah, you know, like it's like the end of the day. I think the whole region probably has a has an issue with that, but certainly the youth are very open minded, very nice. Um And like I said, this isn't just

me basing it off of one trip. I've been fascinated with this place for about six to eight years and I I have not experienced anything like that. Sure you'll hear the old comment like you know very yeah it's Europe, Yeah exactly, exactly Europe. Not to minimize it, but like it's just Corsica exactly whatever. Generally, you know, for a

small island, it could be way worse. And so I had a lot of French people, like they're really nasty, they're really violent, and it's like they're not actually like they're very angry, but they don't hate. They don't hate the French in that sense of like, oh you're a French person, kill you. It's the same thing as we hate the state, you know. Like and at the same time they have a very quite a few people brought up Ireland and the Basque situation and Sardinia, and so

they have this they have an internationalist mentality as well. Actually, and in fact, years ago there used to be a youth conference in Corsica hosted there. I don't think it goes on anymore, but it was hosted in Corsica by what was a very well organized radical socialist youth movement in Corsica, where people from northern Ireland, people from the

Basque country, people from um, uh, what's the one in Barcelona, Oh, um, Calonia, Catalonia. Yeah, people from there would come, you know, all people from different breakaway regions or whatever, and they would all come and they would all meet in courseco and they would talk about tactics and politics and whatever. So it's a very very interesting culture place, amazing history. Fucking the Poland is from Napoleon is from there. You know that's what

you want. Um. So yeah, it's a really cool place. And you know, we only documented one side of it, a very radical side of it, because that's what was happening that weekend to dispatch. But there are a lot of moderates as well. There were a lot of like political, very smart political moderate moderates that are like, look, we don't want violence, but we do want autonomy, we want something.

And they you know, they said, oh, you only showed the militant side of It's like, well, you weren't on the street that day, you know, these kids were, so obviously that's how it works. But yeah, I would to actually a question again. Sorry, I would say just if you're interested in the region, um check it out. And they're there's there's a film if you can find it in English subtitles, send it to me. But there's a fictionalized film about the effllency. I think it's called A

Life of violence. Um, that's actually like quite good. It's a bit romantic size, but it's quite good in terms of explaining this situation there if you speak French. Checked out and just check out like course Martin and all these these other kind of local reporters there. People are like, oh, it's too hard to find them. It does feel like that, but once you find them, you find them all. So yeah, awesome. Well, Jake Canrahan, thank you so much. Check out the new

Popular Front dispatch on Corsica. Um, by the way to YouTube. Yeah, so check out all the Popular Front stuff on YouTube. You've got a great documentary out also about the territorial defense militias in Ukraine that you're filmed right before ship went. Yeah you know where it is. Yeah, yeah, we're standing it because we're a bit like how do we yea, how do we make this most relevant? But it's it's coming that it's it will be quite interesting. Excited the

perspective before. Yeah, the ship you're posting on Twitter was really interesting. Um, so yeah check that out when it's out. Check out all the Popular fronts other stuff. Um and yeah, thank you Jake. Let's uh, well we'll have you back on soon. All right, thank you very much. Welcome to it could happen here the podcast, the podcast, every episode. When you open too many podcasts, you you lose the ability to open podcasts anyway. Uh St Andrew, UM, this

is your episode, so I'm gonna let you. Let you take it, take it away, take us on a journey. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello, Hi, good afternoon, and good night. UM. Today we just wanted to cover rather broad topic. I don't even know if it's gonna be released before the end of February, probably not, But in honor of Black History Month, I wanted to cover the history of Caribbean resistance to slavery and the

different ways that manifested across the Caribbean. For those who don't know, UM, slavery in the Caribbean took place for several hundred years, beginning with the enslavement of the Amerindians the and continuing up until the abolition of slavery in three four, at least in British territories. UM. Before then, there were multiple struggles UM against the institution, both passive

and active, and in every step of the process. UM. And then, of course post slavery, they were also multiple rebellions and insurrections and strikes that took place in the region. But I can't cover the well they about seven thousand islands in the Caribbean, give or take, but I can't cover the histories of all of those for the past

couple of thousand years. But I will try to cover fairly generally the different forms of resistance that took place, starting with, of course, the resistances took place in Africa. I mean even before and state of people were put on these ships, even before they were captured. They were measures they were taken to protect themselves from enslavement. There was of course flight in the sense of running away um.

But there was also evidence of Africans moving their villages to inaccessible areas like mountains or um or deeper into the forest were less accessible for enslaved people UM sorry for enslavers to try to capture their people. One of the more famous enslaved people um Luada Equino. He founded a society in Britain after being enslaved and taken to the Caribbean and eventually moving to Britain after becoming a

freedman and starting the Sons of Africa abolitionist group. He had written his own autobiography, The Interesting Narrative of the Life of Daquino, and he detailed some of the horrors of slavery from an enslaved person's perspective and to a lot of what we knew about slavery and how it could ah comes from his personal account, among others. Of course, so he spoke about some of the measures that were

taken in his own village to defend against capture. But um he after being captured, of course, from the Kingdom of Indian around he ended up being taken on the slave ships, separated from his families and carried with four other people across the Atlantic to Barbados, and then eventually taken to Virginia, and then from Virginia being bought by

a Royal Navy lieutenant and eventually being freed. During the voyages that it could, and they were multiple during the whole Triangle trade, it has been said that one in ten of all Atlantic crossings through the Middle prop passage had some kind of rebellion, whether it be through taking control of the ships and attempting to seal them back to Africa with the assistance of the crew without all of Africans battling against other ships um or in one

case in Amistat, in some Africans were taken captive above aboard a cargo ship and they free themselves, killed the captain and the cook, and forced them to take them back to Sierra Leone, but instead the owners of the ship ended up taking them to the United States, where they were captured by the coast Guard. Jesus, yeah, it's a lot um one slaveship surgeon guy named Alexander Falconbridge

became an abolitionist because he's so well. The first of all, he saw the horrible conditions that were present on those ships in the Middle Passage, where you know, hundreds of people were shackled together and crammed into these tight enclosed, dark, wet infected spaces for weeks on anger being taken across, and of course a lot of the so called cargo, the people who were on route to be enslaved, were

killed by the conditions presidents on those slave ships. However, despite the fact that you know, so many people were dying from the terrible conditions of the ships, the slave trade was so profitable for the enslavers and for the economies of the colonial nations that it was still there was still they were still not only able to break

even but profit massively from the excursions. And even though the Middle Passage got more and more dangerous for cruise as rebellions became more and more expected, production for more shackles, more weaponry to keep captives secured a rose in England and helped to secure some of their travels. Of course, they were also times where Africans would burn the ships they were on, or where they would jump off of the ships. As I'm sure many people remember kill Monker's

famous Final Woods in Black Panther. And from what I remember, the first and slaved people who arrived in Hispaniola immediately ran away and we're able to escape before being recaptured once Um and say people arrived in the horrible conditions at the various colonies in the Caribbean. One of the major projects of their colonial overlords was to convert them

while in the process of you know, enslaving them. Of course, a lot of enslaved people were dying very rapidly due to the diseases and the terrible working conditions they had to endure. Right for those who did survive, Um separated from their families, from their ties to kinship, from really

their home and everything that came along with it. As displaced indigenous people, they had to figure out ways to maintain and protect their cultures um from you know, naming conventions, to craftsmanship, to the language, to philosophy, to believes to music to dance. These are all elements of African cultures

that would provide psychological support for captives. We need to resist the process of enslavement because enslavement is an act of breaking the will and erasing the humanity of the enslave.

Practices like voodoo um in Heity or obia in Trinidad and Jamaica, we're able to strengthen the revolutionary efforts of rebellious Africans and so in the Haitian Revolution, you know, they were fueled by voodoo and the ceremonies that oc could then and we're able to eventually, you know, free the people of Haiti and established the first independent black

republic in the New World. You need to know for so other forms of cultural resistance, and one of the main forms of culture resistance was the preservation of African culture through pre realization, through the melding and the hiding in some cases of elements of African culture with um European cultural forms to create these new cultures and new languages. Um Quol is one example, particularly Antilian Creole, which is

related to Haitian Creole. These languages helped to maintain um some measure of identity for people who will be actively being stripped of it. Women in particular play a major role in this process of culture of resistance and cultural

preservation because in African societies they were. African societies often made trilineal and mature, local and women played a key role in passing traditions onto their daughters and other young women and to the community at large through storytelling and through um the sharing of skills and beliefs and ideas, and so African women played a major rule in keeping the tradition going and at lineage going, maintaining the memory of people like a Nancy and Rare Rabbits and Mamadalu

and Sukyans and all these other folkloric figures who bavy marks of African traditions. Women under slavery also had to do what they could to resist the consist consistent UM violence, sexual violence that was um being done to them. By their cool your masters, UM abortion and UM birth control, UM and other forms of resistance against sexual assault, resisting

their masters, feeling illness. All these things worked too, not necessarily protect them, but two keep them going and try to steve off the worst elements of violence it was being done to them. As I mentioned the Haitian Revolution and being fueled by voodoo and whatnot. It really scared planters across the Cribban and across the world, really like this is the first time something I did sort of happened before. And I'm sure, uh the U s audience knew.

Is a bit about the consequences in the US. How you know Southern slave masters were so terrified by the Asian Revolution, how France um imposed restrictions on heity, and how the US and other European powers were complicit in that attempts to strangle the first Black Republic. But there were cases in other parts of the Caribbean where planters um in their terror, used the Asian Revolution has an excuse to crackdown on the enslaved um, for example in

Trenidad in the Christmas of eighteen o five. The Hassian Revolution ended in eighteen o four, so in Christmas of eighteen five, UM, the planters were so fraid and had really seen some acts of poisoning that we're occurring on some of the estates, because part of the cultural resistance involved the passing down of certain recipes and poisons and concoctions, and so many enslavers you know, fell victim couldn't quote to poisoners, and so they had to try to find

a way to prevent what they saw was a planned uprising. They basically invented this idea of a conspiracy in their paranoia that was meant to wipe out this entire slave

owning population during that in one go. So of course, as historians have uncovered, the conspiracy most likely didn't actually exist or maybe perhaps not today the scale that um the slave owners thought, but it was more so an attempt by the planters to impose greater authoritarian rule as Christmas Day needs, you know, five approached the details of this conspiracy, of this plot sorted to be uncovered by

the planters. UM they thought that, you know, at this place called Chance Estate, enslaved people we're organizing to launch their revolution. And of course this terrified them because at that point in time, the enslaved population was somewhere around whereas the white slave owning class it was like half that number. And so the authorities declared martial law and apprehended those involved if they were even involved. Oftentimes they

were not. But it does bring attention to an important part of enslave resistance, and that being the conspiracy and

actual existence of slave secret societies. Secret societies are something that, ah, It's something that's common in the African Madan land where tribal rights and initiations and advancements through those rights um in secret groupings would occur um to sort of denote levels of ranco maturity and so in slave society, as different tribes mixed and mingled and plantations for security reasons. These secret societies continued but had assimilated some European systems

of order and designation. So they gave themselves names like major or Captain and described their societies as regiments and the echoes the descendants of those societies still exists to this day in Trindad. They are highly obscured. I honestly

don't know much details about them. I just know that I have some friends whose relatives um are involved in those secret societies, and in some places like for example Grancouver where and stay people seized the land and sort of held that land and kept it and passed it down across the generations. Um, such secret societies and membership in such secret societies is not unheard of. So is what the the modern ish versions of them do? Like

what what what? What what are they doing? I guess like these days if if there's something that is, I don't know much about about them or how they operate. Yeah, and so I don't think all the secret societies and turned at are descended from enslave serious societies like obviously not. There are other um secret societies, their societies of doctors

and of lawyers and different treads um. There of course Mason groups as well, and I well, you know, the most um superficial details of most of these groups essentially thing that comes up a look that there there's a whole bunch of like these sort of secret society groups that like wind up being part of an engine leven revolution in China, but they sort of, like most of them,

kind of go bandit like after the revolution happens. And so it's just it's interesting to see I guess, like different contexts where they don't seem to have like just over itly turned into organized crime groups. Right, what's the like organized crime groups descended from secret societies in China, the Triads, for example. Yeah, I actually don't think the

Triers send it from them. A couple of them joined the Communists, a lot of them kind of got wiped out in the sort of just general warlord fighting, and then some of them kind of got stumped up by the Communists because they were basically turned into organized their own organized crime things were sort of distinct from the

other ones existed. But right, there were seven major rebellions in the Colony of Jamaica between sixteen seventy three and sixteen six, and several others in Antigua, in Nevus, in Fujian Islands, in you know, Barbados, in just across the Caribbean. There was continual African resistance and rebellion, and that really is what struck fair in these stave woulders at the time.

In one case, um in seventeen thirty three, during the Amino Rebellion on St. John, which is part of the Danish Fusion Islands, or was part of the Danish Fusian Islands. The African inslusions to controlled the island for six months before being defeated, and the most slave rebellions really occurred in Jamaica, in fact, more than all the other colonies, more than all the other British colonies in the Caribbean combined.

One of the most famous of the Jamaican rebellions was one of the Sudden seventeen six day by a man known as Tachi, had lasted for over a year before being suppressed by British colonial forces. Because Jamaica's population was massively overwhelmingly black in comparison to the very small minority of large slaveholding white, they were more likely to launch

and more likely to succeed in slave refools. Um. Slave refolds are more likely to happen, of course, where slaves outnumber white, where masters are absent, where there's economic distress, where they are split within the ruling elite um, and when large numbers of Native one Africans from one area of brought in one time, which is why they often have to split up. There the people that they captured so they wouldn't be able to collaborate with their king.

We often remember the flashy of forms of revolts such as the revolt in St. Joseph in seven led by Dagger, who is a former African chief in Guinea and the leader of the first British West India regiment Um. He mutinied along with two men, and although they were taken into custody and sentenced to death, they marked just one example of this sort of bold actions that were taken by in state of people in Tobago um in the

year seventeen seventy. There were numerous armed the volts over the next eleven years, from seventy sev one, six armed revolts, one by led by an enslaveman named Sandy in seventeen seventy two in seventeen seventy one, one in June lyet in August one in seventeen seventy three, another in seventeen seventy four, another eighteen o one. And so these revolts to that constry didn't one specific year of the island. They would happened in some cases over the entire island.

Tobago is of course separate from trained Dad until eight nine, where it became a ward of Trina Tobago. But and so their history is the history of Trian Island history of Tobago. We're separate, running separately for the first couple hundred years of the age of colonization, but Tobago's history of resistance is still connected in some ways to trend dads history of resistance in the sense of the bold actions that would taken by a slave people. Of course,

not all resistance to slavery was so bold. Day to day resistance was by far the most common form of opposition to slavery, whether it be through feigning illness, staging slowdowns,

pretending ignorance, deliver a carelessness, awsome sabotage, breaking tools. These sorts of expressions, while they reinforced previously held perceptions of enslaved Africans at the time, they also ways of enslaved people to express their alienation and to sort of corve some level of space or breathing room, or to give

themselves some sense of catharsis in that brutal period. And so what we see is a sort of continuum of resistance from that sort of individual level of slowing down or failing ignorance or what or whatever, to the sort of broader cultural methods of passive resistance, such as you know, cultivating and passing down culture and cultural memories to the more bold aspects of resistance such as revolts and rebellions and revolutions. And of course there was the practice of maroonage,

both petite and grand maroonage. Petite maroonage was an effort by individuals or groups of unstated people to escape from their plantations permanentally sometimes but usually for a limited amount of time, to escape mistreatment, to nick sheet better treatment,

or it's even just catch a break honestly. Grand moonage is more commonly understood and recognized where communities of fugitive slaves would establish communities on the fringes in the swamps of Louisiana, for example, or in the mountains of Jamaica, and these moon communities have been established since the very beginning,

since the early sixteenth century. When the fust and slave Africans are brought to the Caribbean by the Spanish, they would often unite with Amerindians, whether it be you know Tinos or Kalinago's, or go to base and unite with them in their resistance in carving out settlements or strongholds of safety. For example, in fifty forty six. In Hispaniola, there were over seven thousand Maroons among a slave population

of eight thousands. After the island was split between the French santoming which is later which is now known as Haiti and the Spanish Santo Domingo, which is the Dominican Republic. In Maroons took advantage of the hostility between France and Spain to maintain settlements along the border between the two throughout the period of slavery. Addition, there were the Ruins in Cuba, in Puerto Rico, and in some cases with

Puerto Rico. Fugitive slaves from the Virgin Islands would literally set sail to Puerto Rico to settle and escape the enslavemands there. In Jamaica, of course, there are many ruined communities, and in fact, there is still an active Maroon community in Jamaica to this day that has persisted and maintained their traditions. Um Insane Kits in Antigua, in Barbados, in

Martinique and Guada Loup. All of these islands have had Moon communities established um However, as European cultivation the islands increased.

As Europeans ventured further and further into the islands, into the depths of the islands, it became more and more difficult to establish moon settlements because if you look at some of the smaller islands, it's kind of difficult to hide or to establish any sort of sustainable community on the fringes of an island that you could easily jog from one side to the other, or you know, walk

from one side to the other. Of course, even on those smaller islands, there were still attempts to maintain moon settlements, such as in St. Vincent or Dominica. In St. Vincent, the Garifuna, which an indigenous group mixed who mixed with Africans, preserved they depend their independence against both French and the British, and they ended up spreading to um if I recall correctly Central America as well, and so the Garifona community is still very much alive and well to this day.

In Jamaica and Cuba and Guadeloupe and Hispaniola, Marion communities were able to last longer because they had um more mountainous terrain to hide in, particularly in Jamaica. Um but they were also Maroon communities on the South American mainland. You know. In Brazil there was the famous Moroon community or quilombo known as pal Mares, which has existed for

nearly years. From sixteen o five to six, there is a certain invasion by both the Dutch and Portuguese and had at least ten thousand organized UM members ready to defend their operation. They were governed by a king who used the political traditions drawn from Central Africa, but they unfortunately were eventually destroyed. In the Guyana's French Guyana UM, British Guyana which is now called Guyana UM Dutch Guyana

which is now called surname. Marion communities were also able to establish themselves and they still persist to this day due to the um Amazon rainforest and the river wheels that allowed them to conceal themselves from colonial encroachment. Of course, in the US they were all Summaron communities, like the Black Seminoles of Florida or the Morion communities in Um I believe it was the Louisiana It's most places. Of course, Maroon communities were not very large UM or often did

not last very long. They're usually small thriller bands led by an elected chief. But of course these smaller bands in there. Although they were small, that sort of protected

them to some extent from detection and from recapture. In Cuba, for example, they were hundreds of small Maroon communities and they were guarded, and they were and they had their settlements guarded by ditches and steaks and secret paths, and these settlements communicated with each other while remaining isolated, so they could grow their own crops and hunt and fish and trade in peace, sometimes with other islands. In what's

to prevent again capture and destruction. I think there's a lot that we can learn from the different forms of resistance, small and large that instead of people, and it took throughout the period of colonial settlements and expansion and enslavement, elements of their practices and I think could be applied to these struggles. Do you have any thoughts before the wrap? Yeah.

One thing I kind of want to plug is Russell Maroon showed wrote a really interesting I I don't know exactly what the name for essay, I guess called the

Dragon and the Hydra, which is a study. Yeah. Yeah, it's called Dragon the Hydra study of historical study of organizational methods, and it's about basically a comparison of like different different kinds of resistance to colony Linsman Enslavement that talks a lot about the Roan movement, talks about sort of the problems that these sort of like highly centralized, top down movements ran into versus the kind of stuff that the that these sort of more decentralized, less hierarchical

momber movements face. And it's it's really interesting and it's pretty short, so everyone should just read it because it's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He covers the us p T, Suriname and Jamaica, and you know how those different Moon communities dealt with their conditions. I'm pretty sure you brought this from prison too, if I'm remembering my timeline history correctly. Yes, I highly recommend

folks without to read. I mean, I don't want to give the impression that Uron communities where these like valiant utopias. I mean, in some cases Mouron communities who manipulated UM against the other and often in exchange for maintaining the autonomy, they were made to sign treaties where they would have to turn in UM fugitives. So it was not, by any means are perfect situation to be in. But they were trying to cough out their survival. Yeah, I guess

do you want to plug your stuff? So you can find me on Twitter, at on discore seeing True and on YouTube seem to on tourism, where I have lots of stuff. I mean, if you were interested in, for example, the details of how spirituality played a role in African resistance, I have a video on that. If you're interested in, you know, how Wada Equa New established the Sons of Africa group and how that was one of the foundations of what eventually became the Pan Afganist movement. I have

a video on Pan Africanism that you could check out. So, yeah, that's it for me. That was great. I didn't know there were still marine communities actually yeah, yeah, the one in Jamaica, the one in Suriname. They are still very much alive. And well, yeah, it's fascinating. Ah st Andrew, thank you for that. That was wonderful. And uh, that's that's our episode for today. So go home and doom scroll for several hours probably, or or do something productive

or something. I had a cat, big some cookies, hand out food to people who were hungry, you know, big some cookies and then handled the cookies to people who need or doom scroll, you know, all productive things that are some significantly productive. Alright, friends, that's h that's the episode piece. Oh that's how you start a podcast. This is it could happen here. That's right. That's Robert talking. That's right. Also with us, Christopher Wong and Garrison Davis

do your podcast. Yeah, So we're all gathering today on on the day after what I think we'll go down as the single most momentous moment in the twenty one century. Will Smith slapped Chris Rock on stage at the Oscars. So the entire world has pivoted from obsession with the massive land war in Eastern Europe to discussing how Chris Rock getting slapped is like the massive land war in

Eastern Europe or or eleven or nine eleven. Yes, yes, yes, So it's a it's an amazing, like an unprecedentedly incredible time to be on on Twitter right now. That said, we're going to talk about Nazi cat boys today. I've seen everyone's post on the subreddit being like, why aren't you guys giving blow by blows about the war in Ukraine? Then this is this is pressing topic, and we're going to talk about Nazi cat boys previous to the Chris Rock slap. This is the most pressing topic of the

twenty one century. Um is why there's Nazi catboys? And now we're going to talk about it well, because I mean, the roots of the crisis in Ukraine are the different kinds of cat boys that Zelinsky and Putin are. Yes, Robert is fan art. Up, It's gonna be fine. I'm sure. I'm sure we'll find some horrible fan art. Yes, m yeah, we have. We have to figure out if if Putin's ever watched Helsing, and then we'll build to know. So I don't know what that means, but okay, you're you're

about to find out. So great we we have. We have gathered here today to talk about to talk about the curious case of why there are Nazi capboys. Um throut through one TikTok and Twitter pushed from boys and cat boys into kind of the cultural mainstream, plunging these once much more niche subcultures out of the dark depths of fortune, Reddit, Tumbler and discord and uh the latest rebirth of these kind of gender bending communities. It's pretty

socially progressive and affirming. Uh. Like generally most most fem boys catboys are are lefties. There's a whole bunch of like Twitter communists. I'm sure there's a whole bunch of cat boys who like stalling or something. Um, but they're they're generally more generally more on the left. But but but for for those who've dug deeper into the history and origins of these Internet subcultures, you may have found a dark, racist, and hateful underbelly. So we're going to

talk about that today. I do have to note, Garrison, as soon as you said that, I found a Stalinist catboy the Twitter. It's an incredible account. So the their their background image for their Twitter account is a picture of Dang Xiaoping and the Ayatollah of Iran having a meeting. Their their PfP is a lavender haired Uh. It's like a it's like an anime pic here avatar cat boy, yeah, with like a Soviet hat and then Marxist Leninist bisexual

catboy stalin did nothing wrong at North Korea. Stand incredible. This is this is this is why the Left will never win. That's perfect. I'm pretty sure this is like illegal in those countries. It's it would have had this person shot In the second someone tried to describe a catboy to Joseph Stalin, he would have had this person executed. Oh yeah, oh wow, yeah, I see, I see it. Now, that is that is intense. You know. The thing is, this type of thing is not going to be uncommon.

We're gonna be again, We're gonna be going into like actual fascists who are also cowboys, and obviously they would have been would have been killed for being degenerous as well. But now we're gonna kind of talk about how this how this kind of came to be. And I've been writing this for like over a year. Actually, I've interviewed a few people for this that I've kind of contributed to the script. And initially this was going to be

conceived as a video. Um, and you can't really talk about these things in a video format without dressing up like a silly character. So I am. I'm wearing a very actually a very very high quality catboy outfend right now, which the audio will just have to you'll have to You'll have to see it through the audio, So good luck with that synesthesia. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, so you are at the same time, You've done that enough that I don't know that anyone really noticed. I've never dressed

as a catboy for recording. Before you dress is something every other recording. That's true, I addrest as something I generally addresses something. So first section one, Section one, what is what is a cat boy? What? What is what is this? Um So? But first of all, of a few ground rules will be circling back too often. UM One, not all catboys and femboys identify as LGBT or queer.

Um and two, gay people can still be racist. These are these, These are these, These are two points that we're gonna be coming back to over the course of these of these deep type episodes. So first things first, let's let's just define what a cat boy is for all of the boomers in the audience. Um And if you are, if you are a boomer listening to this, how why how did you find this? Why are why

did you choose to listen to Garrison? The instant I became a boomer was the first time you tried to describe explain cat boys to me Like I I suddenly developed a strong opinion on hr Halderman because of because of me, you so administration Joe, but most simply, um, a cat boy. Is this what I'm doing right now? So someone who is kind of kind of boyish, who who? Who? Who sometimes enjoys dressing in cat like apparel? I guess it's like cat ears. It is different from furries from

and we will we will get into this, um. I mean, but I'm I'm definitely less boyish than I first was when I wrote this like a year ago, now that I'm on recreational estrogen. But nevertheless, someone who's a boyish and dresses or likes to dress in cat like kind of uh outfits generally on an anime trajectory of aesthetics. Uh. Now this is this is this is different from furries

from multiple reasons. The physical cat like attributes on catboys are mostly confined to ears and pause sometimes with tails, but it's it's iffy um. Whereas you know, furries like to have like the full first suit thing going on, whereas catboys they still have like human faces and they

wear like human clothes. So this is actually a very key difference, which will lots of made costumes like and yes a lot and the other other big kind of recurring trope um is that is that well they well catboys you usually wear clothes, is that they usually dress up in something similar to like a French made outfit um or or like different outfits like anime girls will where so like the tennis skirt thing, but generally on

a made outfit to anime trajectory. So despite despite the animal ears, right, despite like the furry cat ears, the catboy or cat girls saying has much more in common with the fenboy community than the furry community and a lot of instances but more more more on that later.

So after some initial research into the Nazi cat boy meme, I decided it would be useful for tracing back the roots of this kind of odd online phenomenon to broaden the scope of research to include fem boys as well, which is syccimctly just cat boys without the cat part. It's like boys who or generally male identifying people who dressed in like feminine ways. Um. Not a lot of fen boys will turn out to be trans and not all of them do a lot of fen boys and

identify as straight. But you know, i'd like to wear you know, boys generally kind of in the twink of variety who likes to wear skirts, dresses, whatever. So I have a much of it a dissection to which gets a little bit more silly. Um but but yeah, so m boys, it's excited this. This doesn't get less silly as we go on. But but yeah, catboys, feen boys. Feen boys identify as male dress up in more stereotyptically feminine ways. There's a lot of similarity and crossover between

fen boys and catboys. Um. But since fenboys have more of an established online history, uh, including them in the research seems like the best way to kind of dig

into like the fascist femboy nazi catboy idea. So, speaking of section two, the racist femboy meme the past the past few years, there's been kind of a growing meme and perception across social media that fem boys are like really racist, um and just kind of pretty fashion in general, um, even really homophobic and transphobic and a lot of in a lot of senses, as much as a homophobic or transphobic femboy may see them contradictory at first. But again,

more more on this later. Um. So when I'm talking about this going forward, I'm probably gonna be mixing words in terms like nazi and fascist all right or far right. Now, not not all of these racist femboys are what I would call Nazis by any means um and not not not all advocate for even joke about genocide, but there were absolutely recruitment attempts from self described Nazis. And you know, the line between jokes and actual beliefs is intentionally very

foggy in this kind of internet subculture. So I'll kind of be lazily lumping together everything from racist to far far right wing folks for the sake of simplicity, because it's all like in the same spectrum. And like I mentioned at the beginning, not all femboys and cat boys identify as being queer, um, and gay people can still be racist. These there are these are points we're going to be circling back to a lot. So at this point the alright femboy meme has kind of actually overshadowed

the actual phenomenon of it happening. Right in the past few years, the popularity of leftist fem boys has skyrocketed. Yet if you still do digging on like Twitter or Discord, you can indeed fed users who appear to be fem boys, but are also everything from racist to just openly fascist. Now, naturally, that leaves people wondering how can one have such a kind of contradictory lifestyle and belief system, which leads us to Section three. The Internet and that's it. That's kind

of that's kind of the answer. We that's we can kind of pack it up here. Um, that's the answer. It's the Internet. That's that's why that that's why this has happened. That's what I'm getting out of this. Yeah, sure, whatever, whatever, it's it's Garrison. Are you are you are? Have you been caught up on why people say, I'll Gore invented

the Internet? On where that joke came from? Are you? Oh? Boy, you have to you have to remember Chris Carrison's no was so there was like al Gore was among a bunch of different people who like voted to fund some of the different government kind of projects that became the Internet, right, like you had the rpnet and ship all that stuff.

Like he was one of the people who like pushed that and then in the debate with George Bush while running for president in UH two thousand, he uh like basically made some claims that you could uncharitably translate as him saying that he invented the internet. Um, he didn't actually say that. It was more like he was saying, well, I, you know, supported from an early stage the development of

the Internet. But it got turned into like al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet because it was funny. Ab yes, and and so now that's that's that's the joke is even though he didn't really, he just was not you know, but anyway there, so, well we can we can blame not the cap was on al Gore. Well that that does it for us today. Um, you can find us on Wait okay, we still have a we still have like half an episode to do. Alright, well here's here's speaking of of of al Gore and

the Internet. Here's some ads brought to you by the Internet. Ah boy, those ads were so good they made me wanna be a cat. Okay, all right, wow, moving on. Uh. If you're in any way familiar with facism, you are probably aware that one of it's more consistent traits is that it's notoriously ideologically inconsistent. Um. So, for for this project, I interviewed multiple people who have a more personal history

in the cat boy and femboy online communities than I do. UM. So those interviews plus my own online digging through like hundreds of threads from various form websites, I've I've literally looked through hundreds hundreds of the cat boy posts on Fortune. But doing doing all that has been very helpful for understanding kind of this intersection of politics and subculture. And since I did all this research, you don't need to,

so there you go. Um. But one of the first kind of big takeaways I had after the research and interviews is that the nazi femboy catboy thing is not actually unique at all in terms of Internet radicalization. It just has some aesthetic abnormalities that can confuse on liquors or normal ease, which makes the internet phenomenon seen more

outlandish than that actually is. But before we dig deeper into this litter box of hate, I would like to divide the femboy and catboy kind of racism spectrum into actually to two assistinct categories. First, um, we have we have type one, which I'm calling the fem fast people who are initially into the femboy community and aesthetic and

then got introduced into far right politics online. And then we have type two, the fasci fem people who were already into far right politics and only then got introduced to the femboy community online. So I I usually break down lots of instances of fascists mixing with various subcultures into these like similar like to two categories of people starting off with politics and then getting into the culture, and the people starting off with the culture then getting

into politics. I think it's actually kind it's useful for understanding a whole bunch of how there's like differences between different types of fascist people in various subcultures. So these two types I'm gonna I'm gonna be using to help to help talk about these different kind of strains of of the fascist femboy. For for now, we're gonna focus on the first one, the fem fast. So let's let's

let's wind let's wind the clocks back. Let's say a decade. Broadly, gay people can't get married, and to most kids, trans people are ostensibly a myth um. So what kind of person is going to become a femboy in this in this type of in this type of environment. Simplest answer is like a certain sect of social outcasts and anime nerds, as well as some people who maybe don't consciously know

or accept that they're queer yet. Really the only way to get initially exposed to the fembo aesthetic back then was via anime, manga, anti porn, and you know, select video games, specifically multiplayer games, and random and internet browsing. Right this, this is, this is how you're gonna get

exposed to this type of aesthetic. In fact, one of the probably the old example of a Nazi catboy is from an anime called hell Singh where they had they had this Nazi catboy character who is the who was the source of a lot of Nazi catboy memes on fortune Like, it's a very very popular meme figure um, And this is I think a lot of where that

aesthetic tied to fascism actually really starts from. But of course there's a lot of fascist fans of anime in general, so that the type of aesthetics that the type of aesthetics of femininity that anime kind of presents get used by fascism a lot. Even among like they're more like a cottage core styles, it's still a that very like patriarchal um type of inity that is popular among Japanese animation. So now, the reasons that someone might be drawn to

this specific community can vary from person to person. Maybe they just don't feel as connected to like the hyper macho masculine style that American culture promotes. Maybe it's a way to get attention and validation, or maybe you just like wearing skirts or find it kind of hot. There's, but there's, and there's there's always the possibility that someone is transfer gain they just don't fully know it yet.

This is the case with a lot of these people actually, Um, but some of some of you may be surprised to hear that before our modern TikTok femboy craze, most fem boys did self identify as straight ancests. Uh. There is a lot of reasons for this, including like increased omophobia and transphobia back then, plus like non binary was hardly even the thing like culturally at that at that point. UM. One of the people I interviewed for this project talked about how some of the cis straight fem boys he

knew back then now do identify as trans or queer. Um,

but back then that wasn't really the case. Um. The other person I interviewed before this called themselves asis gender femboy at the time of the interview, but has now since come out as trans. So, like it says, it is definitely a recurring pattern, but it's not a thing for everybody, Like there is definitely like a lot, like a lot of these people do call themselves straight even still now, UM, and that is something that a lot of kind of people don't have a don't have the

easiest time kind of comprehending that's gonna what I'm gonna kind of try to get into. So let's let's let's say you're a kid, young teen and like eleven, you're getting into anime and video games. What kind of websites are you gonna gravitate to? Right, You're gonna gravitate to read It, You're gonna gravitate to four Chan, especially in right. These are the these are kind of the cultural mecchas of of those types of type type types of subcultures.

So what is prelevant on these websites? Well, on four Chan, we have a slash B which is their random channel UM, which also has a not safe work designation, and it's was often flooded with femboy picks um, and since there are so few female users of that site, you see a lot of hentai and occasionally boys dressing up like not safe for work female anime characters, just because there's people still like femininity, but there's so few actual girls

using those sites. At the femininity that you see is either through anime or it's through kind of cross dressing um. And then there's also the slash d page which is just completely dedicated to henta I. So you get a lot of a lot of a lot of that type of like anime style of femininity through kind of that that type of appropriation and and fetishization on the slash d page. So there's there's a decent chance that anime and gaming nerds that browse their interests online will get

exposed to fen boy staff at some point. Right nowadays, it's discord, used to be fortune and used to be read it. So it becomes this type of figure right infinity loop of people who are exposed to something and then start propagating it and get exposed to new people to it, And it's just like continuous cycle. Because if if you're a kid who discovers they kind of like the super niche almost taboo thing. Where are you going

to go to find other like minded people? You're gonna go back to online multiplayer gaming, Reddit and four chane. It's it's it's it's all. It's all the same circles.

So if if even if you don't get exposed to it in places like four chun, you're probably gonna end up there or somewhere similar regardless, and the other other and and the other thing that's important to talk about, which is going to talk about like how how the femboys start getting into politics is like who else is very prevalent and actively recruiting on these types of sites with on like on multiplayer gaming, on Reddit and four chan.

It's it's nazis right that the people who are who are into very far right politics trying to mask trying to mask some of their beliefs initially in like humor and memes. You know, a lot of large, large part of an Internet radicalization is done through is done through memes, especially especially back in there's like so so many like memes. Memes as a social and recruitment tool, we're very very common, especially on like you know, if you're on like an

image board. That that's the whole point is that you're sharing images. Um. So a big part of this overrepresentation of racists in the femboy community was simply the online proximity between these groups of people, between the femboys and then the fascists on four Chan or they read it

in certain online games. Will it be like Second Life, whether it be like mms, you know, all these types of places and in any place that you can design your own character as well, You've got got a lot of this type of like anime femboy type thing, because a lot of a lot of these games that are main in Japan can like give like more feminine options for like male characters, or just have like cowboy like

years and stuff available as a cosmetic option. So a lot a lot of this fetish fetishization that we see on four Chan and on the and in the early two thousands and twentieens is now is now applied to Discord. Like this, you did kind of carry over four trans obviously not the kind of cultural behemoth that it used to be. A lot of this stuff just happens on Discord now, um, where you can kind of cultivate online

communities that are more self contained. So throughout the entirety of the twenteen's, fascism was pretty successful infesting among nerd spaces right nerds and geeks of many types, whether that be gaming or anime or these more like esoteric communities esotericism like niche um. But these communities generally they attract people who are more disenfranchised right and them boys generally feel disenfranchised in one way or another, which just pushes

them into these, you know, less mainstream subculture. At this point, they can be pretty easy targets for fascist recruiters to start suggesting that maybe some of their problems in the world are actually coming from feminism, immigrants, dealing jobs, affirmative action, and slowly leading into talk of like i Q and

racism and anti semitism. So for those who found these ideas initially like abhorrent, uh, it can be explained at all this talk and simply edgy jokes in irony attempting to trigger the enormies, which is a big part of that type of propagation of this type of humor and then politics masses humor on these sites and on these like gaming chats. This isn't unique to fen Boys or cathboys in any way. Right, the more people I interviewed and the more kind of old forms that I read,

I started to actually see stuff that seemed much more familiar. Um. And there's a lot of parallels between this far right fenboy thing and the far right Fury phenomenon, which I know Robert and the Worst Year Ever podcast put together two episodes that do a great job kind of talking about the far right episode of the Worst Year Ever

that we ever got to do. Yeah, yeah, it could do because I guess just briefly kind of talk about the furry the furry kind of thing and how that because there's there's a lot of there's Even though these cultures are different between fen boys and Furies, the tactics that fascists used to get into these communities is exactly the same. Um, and it kind of plays on the

same same tropes. Yeah, it's weird, so you've got I think it kind of hearkens to the fact that like whenever you have a fandom, no matter kind of what the fandom is about or the message of the media it's about, you're going to have like Nazis in it. Um. And and that's obviously like Star Wars, right, where the point of Star Wars is Empire, bad empire. Basically space

Nazis bad guys. And there's a whole bunch of people who have just like made that into their life and get tattoos of the imperial sigil or whatever on their fucking chest. Or you've got like Disney movies where like there's these there's weirdos who will take far right nationalist messages at it, like every like everything everything has its Nazis.

The punk community, right, punk music is supposed to be anti authoritarian um and kind of inherently left wing, but there's Nazi punks, so like it's all like every community

has their Nazis, and the Furies are no different. One of the things that does make the Furies different is, I think because of how and this this is something probably you're a little too young, and I guess a lot of our audience may have missed out on aspects of but like early on in the Internet, and I'm talking like the first decade of actual Internet culture, from like ninety six to two five or six, which is really the first decade of like mass Internet culture. The

punching bag of the entire Internet was was furries. Like they were the people that like it was the safest to make fun of, um, jokes about like killing them, all sorts of really fucked up shit. Um. And so I think they developed kind of this um very strong defensive impulse within the community. And so while every subculture has their Nazis, the Furies have gone kind of the furthest in documenting and um working to like ostracize those people.

And they've done. They're on the level with like punks in terms of the degree to which they have Like that has become kind of a guided principle for a lot of Furies. Um. Yeah, is that kind of what you're looking for? Yeah, because a big a big and the thing you mentioned about like furries being such the punching bag, that's something that's that's something that Nazis even definitely kind of grasp onto as a way to do

grooming and recruitment. Right is if if if, if, if fascists can present themselves as friends to these people who are always punched down upon, then they can kind of put them into their in groups, right, they can they can support them, give them, give them a sense of validation. And give them a sense of a community, tell them like they they they belong. You're you're, you're you're always going to be kicked out of like like real life social groups. Right, you can only exist here with us.

We're gonna we understand you. Like right, they can. They can kind of foster this thing, even though obviously it's dealing with things that are not the most like not the most like systems straight thing in terms of like regular heterosexuality. Um like at a lot of a lot of furries are straight, but like in terms of like the way they approach that is is definitely different than

a lot of regular people. But they so white corom of systs and different fascists can like grasp onto this gr respond to this kind of disenfranchisement and offering this sense of community. Um be you know, be very friendly initially, be being very being very kind of open these people and start and start you know the term would be like red pilling them, right, um to talk about that a lot of their social issues are actually you know the fault of straws talking about these you know, all

of these Jewish bankers. You know, it can start, you can start crafting the propaganda very carefully if you're friends with them first and then only starts slowly introducing them

into your more extremist kind of view of politics. Yeah, it's just no one's really surprised when an anime nerd or like a capital G gamer starts spewing far right talking points, but when a femboy does, that just seems off because like, aren't they also a degenerate right like like it's like what there is a bit of a cognitive distance there um and like yes and no, Right, you may be over estimating some people's commitment to the fascist cause here because an occurring pattern I found, we're

talking to people with history in these communities, especially if they're more of like the fem fashion variety, right, starting up starting off with them boys headaches, then getting into being racist and and and like like pretty racist and

then getting into fascism. Is that look looking back these people and they say, like themselves and others, all of their kind of parenting of racist and fascist talking points, especially online, was like they claim much more due to having to like fit in with these with these already pretty reactionary online spaces um and make friends at seemingly one of the few places that people with similar interests gather.

You know, some people deep down don't really care about the political beliefs that much, and we're we're still looking for a community. And it just so happened that back then, in the early the places where these communities of outcast found each other were also places that other outcasts used racism as a lazy attention seeking shock comedy and like the triggering of normies, which was basically like a sport

on these on on these forums. Now obviously this is not excusing any horn behavior and or horrible things, but that whole idea, plus the active like grooming and the active recruitment from Nazis made the nerdy outcast to fascist pipeline that we see today. That's really how it built up and became such a powerful tool, you know, in around um. But there is there is the other. All of this just generally more applies to the people who were into fen boys edicts and then got kind of

railroaded into into nationalism and too fascism. Right, it's because they they're fem boys on these platforms. There's also racists on these platforms, so these things start to kind of mix, But there's still that other type of femboy nazi um, the one who started off online with far right views and then discovered fem boys and started to feel things when we're starting by talking about them next on on

on part two. But I guess does anyone anyone have any any questions at least to close off part one about the more kind of fem fast variety of people who are generally kind of more regular politically, um, but are into into like femboy and cowboy kind of aesthetics and then and then get put into into into more reactionary ideas. Mm hmmm, uh stay off the internet. Yeah, that's not a question, but yes, that is that is a that is a good uh, there's a good mission statement.

But yeah, in terms of like, in terms of like the you know, this topic can whenever whenever I bring it up. I thought about this a lot when I've tried to explain it to people, there's always a bit

of like that, how that doesn't make any sense? And I'll be gett into some of the more kind of semantics of it um in in part two, but at least at least for like the initial initial kind of dive into how the online community aspect is used as such a powerful tool for people who are feeling so alone that just the the idea of their being an online unity, whether it be racist or not, can is

just super appealing. Because if if everyone thinks that you're weird in an outcast, if these other people who are also weird and outcasts start kind of trying to make friends with you, then it can be a very powerful like recruitment tool, um, which is then of course they'll they'll they'll be people, they'll be people who eventually try to like take them out of the whole femboy stetics in a lot of in a lot of ways, um.

But a lot of fascists also get into the fen boy stetic because of the because of the proximity issue, right, because these things are so like next to each other. Well the thing you're the kind of important broader realization there. And this is something that a radicalization scholar named Scott Atran has been talking about for ten years now. Probably

more is that people get radicalized in communities. People like when we talk about radicalization, like why Like I guess the other half of the explainer that I started this with being like, you know, every subculture has their Nazis. It's not because like the reason every subculture has their Nazis is that subcultures are like people get radicalized as

part of communities, as part of subcultures. They don't get radicalized as individuals, just like people don't aren't just walking out in the world and decide to become a Nazi. They become a Nazi because a Nazi reaches them in something they're already into, right, Like that That's just the way it happens. Yeah, there's definitely a large part of this is like a group of like group dynamics, especially in places like forums where you're you know, trying to

trying to get like this like a tension battle. Um And I guess the other other big part of about the femboy kind of idea, especially on image boards, is like it is such an attention seeking, in validation seeking place right you you want to you want to post things that gets you a lot of comments, likes, upboats, whatever. The kind of the metric is. Um, So people will

do things that get them visibility. Even if even if half the people interacting with you are calling you a degenerate, at least there's people still looking at you at least you feel seen, um, and then the other half people will be like, no, it's actually fine. You know. So as long as there's that visibility, like that sense of community, than a lot of the more cognitive cognitive dissonance aspects can kind of be passed by. But we'll we'll we'll

get into more of that for for for for part two. Um. Anyway, Uh, you can find us on Twitter and Instagram at to Happen Here podon Coole Zone Media, you can find me uh talking about catboys occasionally on Twitter at Hungry bow Tie and about it. Well it's you know, I've I've been I've been trying to edit down this episode because the script was way too long. I be trying to make it more siscinct the past few days. So my, my, my, my, my, I have. I am pretty excited to be to to

to close this Google doc at the end of the day. Well, congratulations on all your hard work, Garrison and listeners at home. Go dress like a catboy. Yeah, and and don't be a Nazi. Yeah, I mean that's also important. Recording in progress. All right, Well that's my opening. Welcome to part two of Why They're Nazi Cowboys. Um, what is this podcast, Garrison, it could happen here talking about that together? The cowboys have Nazis? Which did which did actually happen here? They're

actually we'll talk about how they actually happened. Um. But before we before we get into the topic of fascists becoming fem boys via exposure, because I do, We're gonna start off by talking about kind of well generally the book book the episodes can be talking about people who are fascists who then get in defend boys toepics. Right, last episode we talked about the fem fast, people who are fem boys who they get fascism. Now we're talking

about the fascists who now getting defend boys. Um. But before we get real into that, I think it's gonna I think would be helpful to get a bit more into what these online communities were like in the um Now, all the infos like a combination of what I've gleaned from interviews, UH, direct messages, my own pulling up of old like four China Reddit threads. It may not necessarily reflect you on experiences perfectly. What is the most in

depth I can do on an audio only medium? Um, some won't be thrilled about this, but we do need to discuss traps um at their place within the online community at the time. UM which means we must divine, which means before we first must to find another term for the blissfully unaware. So really heartbreaking because when I was a child, Garrison trap was was just a house where you hit your drugs. It is it is not a trap house. This is a different, different, different type

of track. This is, this is this is before trap house turned into a PODCASTA and a bunch of people didn't know what a trap house was. Heartbreaking the term,

but the term traps were using it here. UM, at least on the Internet, originates in the in the early two thousand's on image boards UM specifically for Juan UM, and it got to be as as it got more popular as a term got more kind of widely recognized as a slur, specifically usually a slur against trans women UM or a slur for like any like feminine presenting

person who was a signed mail at birth. So it's it's it's use and origins at least when the Internet comes from people posting pictures usually from anime very like feminine looking boys UM alongside the meme of Admiral Akbar saying it's a trap. Right, So this this is this is how this idea of the trap kind of started, at least online. I talked with some like other trans

friends of mine. They say that it definitely they in their opinion, they remember it being a term even for the two thousands on the internet, of being kind of more of a slur towards trans women. Um. I can't find any kind of stuff online about that specific angle, but the term, the term may be older than that offline, but at least the online use of it really comes

from the Admiral Actbar meme. Um. So, of course, the it's a trap idea kind of implies some form of deceptions at play, right with these drawings that are pure feminine but may actually be depicting adolescent males or you know worse trans sexuals right woo very scary. Um So this this soon got transferred over from being applied to anime drawings to being applied to pictures and then in

person encounters of real fem boys or trans people. Um. So you know, it's as in like if you found someone that looks female enough, as the meme would go, Um, if to be attractive and later found out that they were actually a boy or they were a trans woman. The idea was that, like, you were deceived, Thus you must be on the lookout for any kind of potential attractiveness of fem boys trans women, or else you two

might be trapped. Um. So this again, this is it's it's it's often it's a very transphobic and it's like it's comparing fem boys to trans women because these are not the same thing. Um. Obviously, there's is very very hashtag problematic for a lot of reasons. Um. But there's also the the the meme the of our traps gay, which is referring to a kind of like satirical debate around whether or not it's gay defined a femboy, a

male cross stresser, or even a trans woman attractive. Um. Now the meme does riff on the whole like fellas is it gay thing? Um? And gee whiz am I glad the fellas meme has surpassed the R traps gay meme. Uh. Obviously. Obviously, not only is the R traps gay thing pretty homophobic and transphobic, Um, it's also tied to a lot of like real world violence against trans women by men, all of the trans panic defense, right, the whole the whole trap idea kind of does tie you into the trans

panic defense. A lot of you know, men who claim they simply had to attack or killed trans women once they found out that that she had a dick, right, or maybe used to have a dick, not even anymore, right, it doesn't even matter more commonly or commonly called the trans panic defense. Yeah, yeah, so, and like the mere thought of that was so scary that they just they use the trans panic defense in court when violence against

trans women is enacted. Now, obviously this is also much more attacks against trans women in this vein are much more common on trans women of color than than than white trans woman. That's another that's another important thing to mention. But circling back to fortune Nazis and fem boys in the in the two thousands and tens, trap was almost like a badge of honor and self descriptor for many fem boys as well. Like being able to trap or like you know, pass for a woman while having a

dick was like the highest level of femboy nous. It was like it was like hop shelf fem boy was being because was being able to to achieve this feat UM. Usually this was you know, for the purposes of taking like loot pictures of yourself and then having them be

you know, well liked or spread across online forums. UM. In my interviews with people from these online spaces longer than I've been around, UM, it was it was like described to me by them that being like fem boys are just trying to look feminine, whereas traps are really trying to look like girls. And that is kind of like the distinction in these in these places at the time, UM. Now, you know, all while calling yourself trans was heavily discouraged

and ridiculed. UM in two thousand and eleven, you know, four chun it was it was, it was. It was hard to be it was hard to even be openly gay, like, let alone transgender. So but being self described as the trap was much more accepted. So a lot of people would actually self describe as this or want to be self described as this, like want to be at the point where they feel like they could say this, UM.

And it's it's interesting. It's like a lot of a lot of the attraction to traps UM was in a lot of ways genuine, but also all wrapped in this like joking, ironic kind of exterior being like, oh, it's all like it, it's all like a bit that we're that we're all in on the joke for right. That that's kind of how this was explained away. Another quote from the interviews is like quote, if you actually admitted to being actually actually romantically attracted to traps or femboys,

you would be heavily ostracized. People would say things like, oh my god, you actually did it, like you actually did the thing, um because it is it is. It was like wrapped in this sense of of of of like irony and and and any hint of sincere attraction was masked in this like ironic joke like facade. So at this point four chan is basically an amateur porn filled suesspool of anime h gaming, edgy jokes, and increasingly bad politics, with pole really taking the shape of like

the Nazi machine that it is today. So close proximity and probability is all it's necessary to make these racist and fen boys have this you know, uncomfortable awakening once they start seeing a whole bunch of pictures with people's

dicks wearing like made outfits. Um So, with with all these like edgy, ironic and not so ironic jokes, the racists populating these chans forums, online spaces, it's only a matter of time before they get exposed to boys posing in Japanese tennis skirts and pink wigs, which helps create this infinity loop idea of like fen boys to get into racism and then fascism, and then and fascists who discover they like dick girls and when boys were addresses,

and then it's it's because they're because these things are happening right next to each other. It's this whole phenomenon of self contradiction that just keeps itself going. So we were now we were now done this section, thankfully, um I did not want to get into having to talk about all that stuff because I know it's not people don't like talking about it. It's pretty, it's pretty. It plays on a whole bunch of extremely like transphobic like tropes, but it is it is a big part of this,

this this kind of phenomenon. Um So, now we're going to the next part, which is in cells, gamer gait and anti feminism. So I I'm I'm not going to focus a lot on the idea of repressed queerness here, right, the idea of like raging homophobes being secretly gay, because I think that idea gets a little too much attention

when we talked about this sort of thing. Now, don't get me wrong, this absolutely does happen, but I generally view sexuality, gender identity, and gender expression as much more fluid attributes, even among people who consider themselves as systems straight. So I I don't like defaulting to this like explainer of being like, oh, they're homophobic, that means they're secretly gay, and like that's I think that's kind of lazy and stupid.

But when when, when we're talking about the curious case of Nazi cowboys, most individuals involved not only identify as straight and sis gender, but are also very homophobic and very transphobic despite their overly like queer behavior here because it is it is like queer and like the original sense of the word um, And I think I think there's much more interesting ways to analyze this beyond the repressed gay trope we've already we've already already are talked

about some femboys and femboy appreciators adopting reactionary and conservative social beliefs to fit into the larger culture around four Chune and parts of the online gaming community to find this sense of belonging and you know, shared shared community among other people. But in order for the fascist femboy to be such a lasting meme and trope in and of itself, in my mind, there needs to be a bit of a stronger justification for the inherent contradictions beyond

just finding community itself. And we will we'll talk about that when we come back from from from our break. Here's here's some ads that that are hopefully about how you two can go on Amazon dot com and buy a made outfit and we're back. Okay, we're going to talk about in cells. What of one of my yeah, uh um in cells or like can voluntarily celibrate people whatever. I assume people who are listening to this know what

in cells are. Um. But the in cel movement gained traction in the mid twenty teens alongside gamer Gate and the growing kind of anti feminist and alongside of mass shooting there was there was there was also the Toronto attack when the in cell round over people in that van there's been multiple mass acts of islands tied to the in cell idea, and how they A lot of us just call them horny Isis I've never heard anyone call them that before. Well they are, I mean immediately.

Also this is This is also the same period where just isis is on Twitter so cold they share where I really want Isis to chime in on the Will Smith to face No you don't. I would love that here. No, I'm waiting for the Taliban's take, no no, no no, no violence against his violence, Comedians is violenc comedians justified. The Taliban weighs in at six Taliban are you could get the Taliban arguing with isis K. By god, it could be done. What a what a what a better world? That?

Especially if Trump was still on Twitter and conmdiate. Oh god, that would have been so funny. If Trump had been around on Twitter too. It's the only time I've missed him, just like, oh yeah, yeah, that would have been that,

That would have been the good ship anyway. Um yeah, in cells there it's a pretty obstensibly violent movement because it's it's all about making young men disenfranchised about their future, right, It's this fatalistic idea that they were promised things and now those promises are no longer being kept by society, so you are kind of doomed to live a pathetic life forever. Right, So it is a very fatalist idea

that really kind of encourages acts of violence. Um But the in the moment was gaining traction around this whole time, right right beside gammer Gate and the growing antifeminist movement. And I think the key to putting this puzzle together is in the hatred and resentment of women itself, um as like a thing. I think think this is actually a key part of why the femboy and femboy fascist thing kind of caught on. Most of the loose organizing of these movements were happening on four Chan and Reddit

right eventually eventually discord as well. These were the same places that were home to the anime posting femboy amateur porn community, and one of the most common viewpoints at the time was that feminism is ruining women, right, that's it's it's disrupting the natural patriarchal order that many boys were taught existed, you know, with promises of girlfriends and wives that are like, rightfully, there's as some kind of like obligation. Yeah, I mean this is when we talked

about like promise people being men being promised. Men were generally talking about like the way in which fiction kind of complicitly promises women as as a reward for heroics, org just being good. It's like it's it's just specifically like a cultural idea. That is probably the best example of this Star Wars, Luke Skywalker becomes a hero and gets to gets to kiss his sister, you know, yes, which is just the which is the driving driving motivation of many many in cells said they took in one

day because their sister. Thank thank you Robert for that for that stinct analysis. I used to I used to be a film's reviewer, Garrison. So like if you're taught and raised like thinking that something like this exists, right like this this this this correct patriarchal order, like it's like it's it's it's almost it's almost like this like

righteous truth. Um and you if you then discovery like that's kind of a lie, and that like women are actually individuals with value not tied to the ownership by man um. Some men have a very very unhealthy, often violatile reaction to this realization or confrontation. So some people

then decide to do mass shootings. Some people, uh, kill people, some people just do you know, some people might just do you know, like um, intimate partner violence, right, say that they do get a partner at some point and it's not going the way they want and they just become abusive. Right. So there's a whole bunch of ways

this this type of thing can manifest. Um. So, faced with the work of like not being a dick and trying to combat this ingrained misogyny and then having to like actually put effort into being attractive and desired, a lot of men instead opt to either like attack outwards or withdrawal inwards, and sometimes the mix of both. So with the with the fascist from boy thing, a lot

of this is like withdrawing in words, right. A lot of these people are too introverted and to kind of cowardly to actually do like a mass shooting, which is like that's that's that's that's probably good. Um. But then them and drawing in words, we're gonna it's kind of manifest in this in this in this different way. So when dealing with this almost like misogynistic nihilism. A lot of dudes really lost hope in the prospect of a

future romance with women. So instead of putting in effort to adjust their personality, adjust their behavior, change the partrict, change their patriarchal outlook, and improve their physical appearance, many guys insaide will retreat to their online communities full of other guys facing similar issues. All Right, it's easier to live in front of a screen and not have to

face other humans in person. These these people don't really have much substantial experience in real life interacting with the opposite gender. Um. So these perhaps, you know, these these so called straight guys that were drawn to fend boys also may have had just had like bad experiences with women. They may have faced rejection, and that rejection may have

really brought them down. Um, and then they assume that they're always going to be rejected by women because of like a few bad experiences and the kind of guys who are on these chans forums and at it online gaming they tend to be generally more socially outcast people who aren't necessarily super physically naturally like attractive and masculine. Right, you have to like people. Everyone, almost everyone can be attractive.

You just have to like put in work if you if you just never do that, Like a lot a lot of boys are never taught how to actually make themselves look good, so they're just kind of like just like, like attractive isn't much like they if you go on these in cell forms, they'll focus a lot on like, well I have you know, there's these folds in the creases of my eyes, or like the way that my nose is very physically impossible for a woman to be

into me. And it's like no, like more than people Like there's all sorts of different preferences people have for physical things, but overall, like the number one thing you can do to be attractive is to be a person that people like be confident their life if you have like have like a good personality, like learn how to do a variety of things and just like have have

a life. Lot of the all these people like that seems neat They think that they can achieve, you know, they think that women should flock to them even if they put in like new effort at all, right, if they just do what they're doing, they feel like, why is this not working, or the effort they put in. It's like Ellie again, Eliot Rogers the perfect example of these kind of people. Like the effort that he put in was he like made his dad buy him a

really nice car, and he dressed in expensive clothing. And it's like, well, that's actually very few people are attracted to that. And yes, the people who are attracted solely to someone having a nice car and clothing probably have

really weird, specific like physical things. They're also only looking for, um, But that's because you were like like that, that's not making yourself attractive as opposed to I don't know, learning how to cook or or learning you know, a foreign language, or you know, being an emotionally available person who's not purely viewing relationships into transactional nature where you're you're paying

for sex by being friendly. You know. But you know, you know what, but you know what's easier than doing all that is just hating women. That is, that's a much easier thing for these for these people to do default to this. So the Internet taught me one thing. It's that it's quite easy to hate women. So while these like all right, hell holes like four chune um and you know, read it online gaming, right, online gaming is full of misogyny. Um, all these all these places

like really hate like actual women. It's they still heavily fetish size femininity, right, it's still viewed as this like glorious, like like thing that's put put put put put put on a pedestal, even though they hate like actual women themselves.

So feminine dudes can be fem boys or cause play anime to garner attention or social praise, you know, amidst some you know standard you know, like people like oh your faguetes, you're disgusting comments, But you can then they can still like cause play and dress up and post pictures without being totally shunned by their fellow edgy writers because it's kind of funny and some of them may actually find it cute, even even though they may not

admit it. Uh. Fem boys often do have you know, I generally think cute and effeminate features they can in For these people, a big part of the goal is to like trick the brain into thinking that you're just looking at a girl, um that might just so happen

to have a penis. So therefore, when like viewing these pictures, these guys are also like getting a sense of familiarity with girl like imagery, um while thinking that like they also might have a shot and with interacting with this individual because they don't have a vagina, so that makes it makes interacting with them like easier because there's like

more things to relate to. I guess, um, you would see a lot of like role playing and like role playing of sexting and like role playing of dating girls through this femboy framework just actually a really common occurrence as like and it was it was explained as like it's like a sort of practice for imagining their future of dating women. It was like it was like they're doing this to like practice interacting with women. Um, so they're just gonna be role playing dating fem boys while

being Nazis. But they're doing it so that it's like a practice so that they will be better at dating women in the future. It's like so that that's that's actually a really common thing um or like yeah, like sexting as as as like yeah, I'm just doing this for practice, Like I'm not doing this so that I will be good at sexting in the future, just doing it with these fem boys on you know, discord on

for chat whatever. Um, because like all of like the whole femboy thing is still dealing with the patriarchal views of beauty. Right. It's it's femininity as this sort of

performance put on for the enjoyment of others. And because it's about that, like appreciating femininity itself, it's seen as a lot safer than full on homosexual attraction, right because it's it's allowed if if you're if you can appreciate the femininity, then that's allowed to propagate despite also kind being degenerate because the person generally fem boys usually self ideas male. But because it's wrapped in this feminine package,

it's allowed to be appreciated. Um. And for the people that did eventually come to terms with their queerness, the four Chan femboy thing allowed them to safely dip their toes into exploring how like exploring homosexuality, bisexuality, exploring like gender bending without like abandoning the typical masculine feminine rules that were kind of raised to be comfortable with. Right.

It's still in the regular masculine feminine like rule sets, but it's approachable because it's allowed to be done through this both both this like ironic joke, but then also it's still it's still based off these patriarchal views of

feminine beauty. So it's it's it's it's a weird thing. Um, it's it's that's a that's the other part of it that I like to explain to people because you're like, oh, that is like trying to picture fascists fake dating each other online so that will be better at dating women in the future. It's just a very absurd idea. It's I it's fair. I'm actually fine with this, but like it makes like it makes sense, like it like it, like I understand it, and you can like, yeah, I

get it. Um. And it did help a lot of people eventually realize maybe I'm not the straightest stick in the shed, or maybe not the straightest stick in the fascies. Yeah.

I mean everyone needs a safe space to figure out what they are, and I guess that even includes fascists, maybe because like not because I want fascists to be fascists, but because maybe some of them, through this weird role playing role, will like get over some stuff absolutely recognize that like oh maybe maybe I'm just like gay and I need to like work on myself, like I'm I'm maybe I've been barking up the wrong tree with all

this Nazi stuff. Yeah, because like amidst like the gamer Gate and the height of the insult era, these guys felt more comfortable exploring their burgeoning sexuality in these male dominated online spaces right there. It's easier to relate to other males when they're when they're all like growing up coming of age, dealing with dealing with these like feelings

of it like abandonment, loneliness. Right, they do this in these male spaces, they feel lot safer to express themselves, um, you know what, whether or not they're full of fascists or like other people who are like very like reactionary, because at least they can understand male desire um and that's they can relate to that and internact with people who are you know, they can eat in act easier with people with dicks while wrapped in this feminine package,

which is so much easier than the much more scary and much more elusive of like females out there. Right It's it's that that's kind of the framework that this was propagated through. It's it's it's really interesting that it's like you have these people who like they're they're like they're they're they're transmisogyny is such that like they they've escalated to a point where it circles back around. Yes, it is so intense. It is such a it's there's

so much going on. Yeah, yeah, it's like it's like it becomes this like like I don't know, it becomes like the fact that it's like conceptually impossible for them for just like a woman to have a dick like that has like circled back around and just completely come to define how they have gender in such a way that someone who is like just is performing gender like as a woman, like to the extent that like they're trying to like they're they're trying to have people use

like to transcellors against them. Yeah, there's it's it's an interesting there's there's there's so much going on because yeah, it's routed in a whole bunch of it's people exploring gender in this weird way while also like relying on heavily like misogynistic, trans misogynistic, homophobic kind of ideas. But it's it's also it's like it's very queer in this and like the way in the way they're going about it, because it's a whole bunch of like self it's a

whole bunch of like self justification. It's a it's a whole bunch of like stuff around like what they view as feminine, what they've us masculine, what what they view like being a woman means, um it is it is it is. Uh, it's it's a lot yeah, like as as like a more as like a gender queer, transperson.

I like, I like look at them go through all this work and like, wow, they could have bypassed a whole bunch of bullshit if they just like less of a like, if they're just less of if they work as horrible people, they could have experienced these same things. But again, like they were, they're in their own isolated communities, They're they're dealing with the same ingredients just from this

weird backwards way. So like it's it's obviously very transphoblic and in a lot of senses, but a lot of a lot of these pop will eventually realized, oh, maybe I've actually trends. So it's this it's like I don't know, it's obviously not great in a lot of ways, But I don't know how to discuss it when saying like, yes, it's obviously not great for how like trans misogynistic it is,

but they're all working through some stuff. Yeah, well you know, I don't want The one thing I will say about this is like, yeah, like if kids were actually allowed to be queer normally, like this ship mostly would not happen, Like you, you wouldn't get so many people who get locked in these like who are queer, who get locked

into these spaces. But then also like the only way that they could express themselves in these like narrow, isolated waping spaces is to like this ship or they're into the like just let people express themselves normally, and this this you can deny the fascist recruiting ground, Like yeah, I mean it's it's interesting, Like it's like when all all these people are looking at interacting with them boys, I think a lot of those is why they they were able to play with these ingredients is that they

did not experience the same like anxiety or like heightened stakes or neative or like negative connotations in their mind that that they normally do when thinking about women, because women are just so other so especially like if you can rationalize this this attraction defend boys as simply a prelude to dating like quote like real women in whatever like fantasy cottage core future they might imagine, then this idea is a way more approachable. You're gonna need to

explain cottage core for the I am not. I already have we have we were having an add break I still in brief it is this like return to tradition obsession. You see among like chunks of the far right who were obsessed with the idea that if they if culture was the way it was in the fifties or in like the they would live on They would live on a small farm with their wife and children who would be utterly submissive to them, and everything would be perfect.

But like, the only thing in between them and happiness is that they're not able to live in a in a in a small all like farm with a woman who they essentially own. That the gist, I will say a lot of college course are also used by liberals and people on the left as well. Just as like an aesthetic thing, we all want to live on a

small farm in the world. That makes it the cottage core that we're talking about is specifically the idea of I want to own a woman and and own my children and have like no no power capable of like stopping me from yeah whatever, because like cottage cottage, corn TikTok is pretty sanitized and pretty much like more of

an aesthetic thing, less tied to those patriarchal structures. But anyway, like everything we're talking about, there's the version that's Nazis, and there's the version that's, like, boy, it sucks living in a four thousand dollar a month apartment in New York City that I share with nine people. I sure would like to live on a cottage in the woods. Anyway, speaking of living in college in these woods, Um, if you buy these products, it'll get you closer to your

college core lifestyle. So give it away. Sponsored entirely by the concept big cottage, big cottage, the cottage industrial complex. Alright, we are back, and now we're talking about the point of the Nazi cat boy debate that everyone I think who is familiar with the topic knew was coming. No, no breakdown of Nazi cat boys and the Nazi catboy phenomenon is complete without talking about Nick Flintez and Catboy Cammy.

So Nick Flintes, Yeah, this is uh, this is this is part of the part of the show that ever that everyone's been waiting for. Um. I don't know that most people would know to be waiting for this, but broadly recognized by our audience. So in short, if George Lincoln Rockwell has the permanent body of a seventeen year old boy, um, that that's Nick Flintest as many if you know, Nick Flintes is a white nationalist livestreamer political

activists that runs the Fascist America First organization. Uh. He's known for fostering a farther right conservative base than say and Shapiro or Turning Point USA. Um, and has pulled stunts like sending his fans called gropers to Turning Point USA events to take over the Q and A sections and basically asked Charlie Kirk why he isn't more fascist? Um. Yeah, And so he runs this whole organization mostly known by doing his Daily Lives streams. He's been doing this since

he's like sixteen or seventeen years old. Fucking nonsense. Um. And it's kind of a running joke or widely acknowledged secret that Nick is kind of gay. Um. Based on the way he talks about women, and based on what he said about his own dating history and snide comments from fellow home Homo Nazi friends has led a lot, has led a lot of people to to this conclusion that Nick may not be again the straightest stick in the fascists. UM, thank you, thank you, thank you one.

And as as a significant contributing factor to this like question, the nixt sexuality um is due to his catboy arc. Um. So so this this arc begins in January, UM, finally giving our audience the important important news. This is what you need to know people. That month, Nick created a catboy themed channel in his own America first Discord server with Nick, with Nick messaging post catboys in here, please

with with weird capitalizations throughout the throughout the thing. So Nick cheered on along with other people, posting pictures of various cat boys from pop culture and cat boy edits of Nick Fintez himself. UM. One America First Server user posted cat boys are trad and which means like traditional list in kind of the sense that like Nazis are traditionalist. That's that's what that person is saying. He also posted very funny. He also posted cat boys were like cath boys.

Oh god, so like again Yeah, yeah, so that's that's that's the that's the joke. I'm you're, you're, you're out of control right now. This is it is so I've I've looked through this discord. He's arguing, this isn't very funny. I've looked through this discord server multiple times for the for the screenshots when you have the cathboy channel, and it always makes me happy. It is. It's one of

the most funny things I've ever seen. Yeah, as as your friend, I'm always warring between wanting you to be happy and worried that this is a cry for help, but please continue. Eventually, Nick faced some pushback from inside the server for fostering degeneracy um with with others with with others defending the Catboy channel by saying, brother, we love is Christian amazing and standing see this is this

is this is exactly, this is the good ship. This is what we've been building towards as a civilization, right there, baby. Other people other people defended the Catboy channel by saying, women don't respect Christianity. Your tribes thoughttery always leaks out eventually. Good God, yes, that's that's that's the good stuff I got. I got no comment, just just perfect thank you. But but because Nick is fundamentally a coward, he did cave

under pressure and deleted the catboy channel. Um, we we lost. I think the American First movement today could be so different if he kept this is this is why the cause of Americanism is doomed, this kind of cowardice. But but but as as we will see from Nick, oh absolutely this this whole, this whole sections about Nick Fintest

being thoroughly cocked. But as as we will see, Nick continued to use um the exact rhetoric I laid out in my in Sales gammer Gate and antifeminist section while defending what he calls attraction to traps um and we can, of course, we can apply this this defense broadly to catboys and from boys, as Nick does. Um, I'm going to try to I'm going to try to play a video of about about Nick fuentas um our traps gay? Yeah, traps are gay. I've always maintained traps are gay. Of

course you have sex with the man, it's gay. There's no getting around now. Now, that's said. That's said, Look, it's gay. I get it. I agree. Now that's said, it's you know, we're in times where the women are not really meeting their obligations. So I'm not saying you're not. Look, if you have sex with the trap, you're game, no doubt about that, and you should be ready killed, you should be made fun of. But it's a little bit different than if you did it like twenty years ago.

That's all I'm saying. If you in the nineteen sixties, in the nineteen sixties were banging a trap, I would say what's wrong with you? Like I would say that now. I would say that now, I would say, well, you're some kind of sick freak. We have all these beautiful girls and they're normal, you know, and you have sex with a trap. What's wrong with you? But in nineteen it's like, well, it's it's different. It's a different circumstance,

different options. There're still disavowed, I disavow, it's condemned, it's gay, it's all that. But you know, it's just different. I think everybody understands that. But I'm still listen to half a little just have to have a little nuance all right, it's just a little nuance different times to different times. It's I maintain strong disavowal, strong disavowal, do not do not do that. It's gay, it's immoral. You're going to hell, and it's weird and it's gross. Oh my god, what's

wrong with you? Yeah, I haven't heard that one in a minute, person, I'm upset. That was horrible. You don't heard femoids since the David Sereni days, which looks at home if you don't, if you if you missed David Serene, you missed the one brief moment where the far right was purely funny. That was bad. So so being the worst. So yes, being being attracted to traps makes makes it gay, according to him, But not really, because the female race isn't carrying their burden like it once did back in

the sixties. It's like back in back in back in the old days of the nineteen sixties. It's it's like they've almost gotten back to the like the I mean, I guess it probably still sor but like the thing you got with that just sometimes where they were like, yeah, like I fucked, but I'm a top. So it's not gay. It's like like so close there, They're so close, and

it's like it's not like Roy Cone kind of yeah. Yeah, it's like I think I think like I think once we get like just slightly like maybe like twenty more years out from like the evangelical evangelicalism as I don't know, I mean maybe maybe maybe it's resurgen is gonna be like a big enough heyday thing. But it's like I think, if you had like twenty years with the right wasn't completely dominated by a certain evangelical homophobia, like I think you would just get back there and well, we're already

on that way. And it's but the Nick Funt has kept by saga, let's not stop here. No no, no, no, no, no I am It is funny, maybe the wrong word, but fascinating that we are heading inevitably barreling towards this future where simultane neviously homophobia is still a massive part

of conservative politics and conservatives are gay as hell. Like that's that's absolutely something where we are speeding towards like a drunken family on the back of a four wheeler about to break all of their necks at once and crash in the woods. So Nick Fuentes love tweeting about cat boys. He didn't a lot, And for a while, Nick's cat boy jokes and like a memory was tolerated under his banner of like irony poisoned reactionary comedy. But every ironic joke has a stipping point that makes that

makes enough people wonder is this actually ironic? Uh? And for Fuentes, that moment came when he live streamed a ten hour date with a fellow fascist live streamer who went by the name cat Boy Cammy. Now, first let's let me explain who cat Boy Cammy wasn't at the time. Then we'll get into the date that that we'll get into Nick went as his brief altright cancelation, so Tour Brooks a k a. Cowboy Cammy, formerly going under the

user name lolly Socks. So that's fun. Um is an Australian fascist live streamer who first came to prominence by uploading clips of himself harassing users on the popular video chatting site Oh mowgli Ogilby. I ever know how to say this? One mogul little emogli people here, people, people will know what I'm talking about. It's this it's this randomized chatting app that does video chatting with the randomized users. Oh yeah, it's O M E G L E. I

never know how to say it, but it's this. He would he would upload himself videos of him harassing people via via this chatting app. UM. In one of them, he dressed his up in black face and while brandishing guns and trying to he was trying to find like black black kids to taunt on this platform. Another one he dressed up as a policeman UM and kneels and an effigy he made likeness of George Floyd. Um, he it's it's he is, he is. He is pretty gross. Uh,

he's he's he's he's a pretty horrible person. But for a long time, his bit was dressing up in anime costumes and dressing up as a catboy. Uh to then talk about like neo Nazi rhetoric. Well, dressed as a catboy and this this was his funny bit that he would do. UM. At one point he was streaming like twenty four hours a day, uh, for ten days, for like for the for the days and days on end um and he was earning thousands of followers from places

like US and Russia. Uh and he became the seventh highest earning streamer on d live and d live was a popular live streaming platform used by fascists um in and so in late twenty nineteen was when Cowboy Cammy popped up like in America, initially catching the attention of Nick Fuentez. Over over the course of a few months. UH he kind of made friends with various people in the American far right internet sphere, like Milo Richard Spencer Baked Alaska, but but Nick Fuentes was his original kind

of entry point into this. Nick saw Nick saw his videos online and was interested in like what he was doing. Uh. Nick said that he had a good sense of humor, and he's good looking, and demonstrated and demonstrated his repeatability that he's able to achieve viral moments and retain a streaming audience. So Nick became friends with him because he thought Cowboy Camy would be like a growing internet presence.

I wanted to kind of move his his type of like his type of pretty like racist and horrible like joke pranks, and tried to give them more, give them

more of a platform to kind of frontline reactionary ideologies. Um. So when when Nick was getting familiar with Kawboy Cammy Cammy on online activities were mainly consisting of dressing up as an ANIMI cowboy to do random like political debates or live streams or show it like anime conventions to harass people, um and doing like various gags and pranks. One of the most infamous incidents was when he was deep throating a massive horse cock dildo hooked up to

a bucket of fake semen. Um good, okay, yeah, so in December, in December, Catboy Cammy flew from Australia to go visiton No, the semen was fake? It was? It was Oh okay, gotcha it was. It was a massive horse cock dildoo hooked up to a bucket of like fake semen. Right, okay, so just like corn starch and I'm happy. Yeah, if we want to go of a recipe's later, I'm sure we could make that a whole episode.

But now I know how to make fake come. In December, Catboy Cavy flew from Australia to go visit Nick Fuentez and then just proceeded to live stream the ten hour totally straight hangout session with Catboy Camy dressed up as a cowboy the entire time. I mean, this does sound very straight to me. They go to they go to an arcade, they play games together, they get food and milkshakes. They go clothing shopping and try on matching outfits, um,

all while laughing and giggling the entire time. Um well, while uh well, uh while driving and listening to extremely gay pop music. Catboy Cammy says to Nick that he reminds them of an X. It's great and by the end of the ten hour stream, it's implied that they it's it's the end of stream. It's implied that they share a room for the night. Um. Sure they did. And it's ten hours of pure horrible Nazi flirting and

it's it's pretty. It's it's a thing. It exists. Um But as so as news and details of the live stream uh started to circulate, a wave of a wave of infighting among the alt right and the gropers spawned some amazing articles and headlines from neo Nazi news sites. Uh. There's a headline from the Daily Stormer called the Rowing for a Revolution is canceled after Nick Fuentes reveals to be a catboy and gay Fayett. It's just pretty pretty astonishing. Yeah,

that sounds that sounds about right. And other other great headlines. We have a Fuentes disavows catboy after a pressure from trad news. If you're if you're sitting down and for your movement that you want to take over the government typing down Fuentes disavows cat boy. Perhaps you need to think about some things. We got another headline as catboy Candy versus Richard Spencer because Richard Spencer trying to cancel

Nick for this because Nick was getting more popular than him. Um. And we have then another great headline just a Nick Fuentes catboy BFF is a mockery to his sexuality anyway, it's uh, it's pretty good. There's this this great this is this this great? Um. A bit from one of these articles, which which which which which I'll quote. So it starts to start off by saying, is Nick Fuente is attracted to women? If you trusted the plan, you

wouldn't ask such questions. I will say that I don't think the ten hour live stream helps King Nick of the Grappers. At the moment he had a good thing going by trying to promote a more Christian and normal presenting nationalist movement and was getting a lot of traction until he ruined his image by associating it with this. None of his various enemies did this to him either.

He did it entirely to himself. So yeah, um but like, obviously, like the point of this is not to like, not to like put Nick Fuentez's sexuality on blast, like I do, do not care one way or the other. Um, it's not a problem. The problem isn't is that. The problem

isn't that Nick may find cat boys incredibly hot. Uh. But the problem is that he's like a Nazi and stuff and calls for the extermination of gay people while also doing all of this ship um and you know Nick, Nick still maintains that he isn't gay and gay people should be exiled from society and he would never associate with homosexuals blah blah blah blah blah, um, all while doing all this incredibly straight behavior. Um. Uh. For update

on Catboy Cammy. Later, Catboy Cammy made multiple appearances That's Trump rallies and various other political events, going viral multiple times for screaming incredibly racist, anti Semitic and openly fascist rants. Um. You probably saw footage of catboy Cammy in Um. He was just just, he was just he was just dressed as like a regular person. But he there was a few clips of him at Trump rallies that went very very viral. Um and Nick even u disowned disavowed catboy

camy for bad optics. Uh. During during during these incredibly racist rants, he would he would go on at at at Trump rallies. Um. And then of course we have a mayor America First and uh and and Nick Fuentez then being you know, an escalating part of the protests in d C leading to January six. Um, we have the person alleged to have stolen Nancy Polosi's laptop being in those America First discord servers and uh and grooming

young boys by dressing up as a cat girl. Um So all part of all, part of this will get talked about later in like these articles and stuff. This has not been talked about. Some people already know about it. But but yes, um, so it's all part of this same like Nick Fuentez catboy sect of things of these these like people who who call themselves tread cats who

then do all this weird cat boy shit. And yes, the the person who stole people laptop who was like an open Nazi, UM was was grooming like miners on on discord by dressing up this cat girl, by by dressing up with a cat girl. Um. Yeah, so there's a whole buch of this, this whole sphere of stuff.

You can find some incredibly dark dark corners. Um. But nowadays, uh, in the Year of Our Lord, UH, fem boys are way more of like it's like generally acknowledged to be like a kind of like a leftist like communist thing almost um like and and I think the reason why this debate got so I think the reason why the fascist like the fascist femboy debate got so kind of heightened in the past few years, like ever since, like tumbler band porn, Uh, there's been a migration of tumbloy

users onto Twitter, and a part of part a part of this migration is not sake for work users and content um, including fem boys and people who fetishize fem boys and even fetishized racist fem boys moving moving on to Twitter, right, Twitter has become the new has become the new de facto tumbler in a lot of senses. So the past three years, more and more normalies have

been exposed to these types of like off the cuff people. Um. Then, of course TikTok has sent fem boys into the mainstream because TikTok is also it's not an image ward, but it is a visual medium right where you're posting small videos of yourselves. So a lot of a lot of

cat boy and fenboy content on TikTok. There's even this horrible article from two from August by Vice called introducing fem boys the most wholesome trend on TikTok, as if fenb boys were invented in mind boggling article of But yeah, fenboys are now much more. If you take the Vice article as an example, fen boys are now fully mainstreamed. Right. Fenboys used to be a small subculture, but among gen Z kind of culture as a whole. Now fen boys

are very popular. They are they are kind of they are one of one of like one of like the hot new pokemons to collect um And I'm going to har that's cultural appropriation from millennials. You're not allowed to talk about pokemons. I don't I don't care. We we own those. I just just to talk about like scale of memes here. I have some Google have some like Google trends, um on like Nazi cat boys and not

see fem boys. Uh, and we see the mass The biggest, biggest spike in Nazi femboy is January of one, which makes sense that that's when I started writing this this script. Actually, um, you say yeah for for Google trends, we got a massive spike in January one, and it's kind of been

decreasing since then, but still still like it was. It was like you would see blips every once in a while, like there's a small blip of Nazi fem boys in a small blip in and then a small blip at the start of the pandemic in March because people are alone and isolated so they're doing this instead. Um. And then yeah, January one, massive massive spike. UM the same thing with a very similar to racist fem Boy. It's

basically the same exact trajectory. We do get a pretty big spike and racist fem boy in June of um and then another big spike of actually of November one is the highest. The highest searches for racist FM boy. So it's still very much an ongoing meme of like a thing I'll being like, yeah, femboys are pretty racist. It's still completely completely ongoing. Oh thank god, Yeah it is. It's don't worries, it's not. It's not a closed case. And that's good. Garrison. I was really worried for a second.

No people, people, and this, Like I think, I think if you're not extremely online, you probably even like you might not know about this, Like this is like this is an actual discourse on Twitter, like like this there will be like a week We're the only thing people argue about is whether fem boys are inherently racist, which obviously they're not. Like it's it's so. And the last thing I'm gonna mention here is enemy is in the

Is it the unicorn riot discord leaks? When they leaked a whole bunch of information from lots of different fascist chattels. We have over a thousand mentions of cat boys inside that you know, couldn't riot fascist discord leaks? Garrison. I have a question for you, Yes, do you think God stays in heaven because he too lives in fear of

what he's created here on Earth. So if you want to have a fun time, you can go to Discord, Leaks dot Unicorn, Riot dot Ninja, um slash Discord slash search, then put in, put in catboy and scrolls skulls scrolls through thousands of posts from these Nazi channels, not mend cat for here we got stuff from like sar god of a cod the We have the Discord channel, Domestic Terrorism Planning, Discord Catboy channel, we of course have we of course have Nick Fuentez. We got every whatever you

would look for, you can find it here. Um. And that is that is the curious case of Nazi catboys. So there there you go. Any any questions, Class Garrison, why why did you do this to us? Because I

thought it would be funny? It is on the on the inside, it's funny anyway, happy Well that is uh so yeah, Now I hope, I hope you all have a better look into why the fascist femboy meme exists and how people can have the cognitive distance in their own heads in terms of you know, fetishing, fetishizing feminine attributes while still hating women and then leading into the Nick Fuentez catboy craze that has swept the nation as a whole. So just okay, just just just be queer

and a leftist. You don't have to do the ship. You do not have to wrap your brain in fucking seventeen layers of bullshit of like weird misogyny. You can just just be gay and a leftist and as as we as we showed you can, you can. You can be a leftist. You can love Stalin and be a catboy. It's totally fine. I think you can be anything and be a catboy. That's that's the main message of the twenty one century. Vladimir Putin is going to come out as a catboy when he releases his next unhinged rant

and support of J. K Rowling. That's that's that's where the discourse is headed. It's inevitable, it can't be stopped. I wanted to be Nick Fintes and Vladimir Putin holds cans being a cat boy. All right, Well that's where we're going. That doesn't for us today, everybody. If you wanna follow the show, you can follow us on Twitter and Instagram, at happen here pod and cool Zone Media. You can follow my catboy posting at Hungry bow tie. Um, yeah, yeah,

yeah Hey. We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the Universe. It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.