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Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions.
Hello, and welcome to it could happen here. My name is Dona el kurd I, am a researcher and analyst of Arab and Palestinian politics. I'm recording this on May nineteenth, twenty twenty six, and this past weekend, May fifteenth was Nekba Day. Nakba is the Arabic word for catastrophe, and Nekba Day commemorates when close to a million Palestinians were expelled in nineteen forty eight with the founding of the
Israeli state, so the Palestinian Catastrophe. Hundreds of villages and towns were destroyed, and many Palestinians were made refugees in camps around the new state. In Gaza, West Bank, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and farther afield. Within Israel, Palestinians who somehow managed to remain were put under a military rule. As the past fewers have demonstrated, and as many Palestinians will tell you, this,
Nekba never ended. Usually I use this podcast to discuss current events or to interview someone who is an expert on a dynamic I'm interested in and I think is useful for people to hear. But today I'm going to be doing something a little different and outside my comfort zone. I'm going to share my personal family history and Arnakba story. I'm a Palestinian from Jerusalem. Both sides, my mom and my dad are from Jerusalem, and I was born there.
Usually when people ask me where I'm from and I say that, they just assume East Jerusalem because that's where Palestinians have been sequestered today. They were driven out of West Jerusalem nineteen forty eight, but actually some of my family were from the western side of the city. My paternal grandmother and her family lost their home in West
Jerusalem in nineteen forty eight. My grandmother ended up spending three years in akoby Jab at refugee camp outside of Jericho because my great grandfather had been wounded trying to defend the city and they were waiting to see if they could return. My grandmother has told me details about
this time. She talked about the makeshift school in the camp that only went up to the eighth grade, So my grandmother repeated the year a couple of times and then eventually dropped out of school because she couldn't continue past the eighth grade. Now, the rest of her siblings, especially upon their return to Jerusalem, were all fully educated as adults. Many of them held advanced degrees. My grandmother was the only one, as the eldest, who had paid
the price of displacement in this way. She was trained as a seamstress later on, but always lamented that she had to leave school early. She also told me about her how in Bah, which is in West Jerusalem neighborhood in West Jerusalem before it was taken during the Nekba. This was a newer neighborhood with nice views of the city, where middle class Palsainian families were expanding their homes as
their families expanded. My grandmother's family had only moved into this house two months prior to the Nekba, and she used to tell me how the house had been newly painted and it was made of beautiful stones. Before she passed away, she would often cry over this house as if it had just been taken. That house, by the way,
still stands in West Jerusalem. The last time I visited Palestine, and my grandmother's younger siblings showed me pictures of themselves posing in front of their house, now occupied by Israelis.
Now.
My grandmother's story is very typical, but also very lucky because her and her family they did become refugees, yes, but they found their way back to the city. Most Palestinians were never able to return back to their hometowns. They were lucky in that sense that they had property and family in other parts of the city on the eastern side, and they were able to continue. We were able to continue. That's how I was born in Jerusalem
myself because of that. Look. Now, on my maternal side, I don't know as much about them and their neck of a story. I left Palestine when I was a child. I don't have a close relationship with the mother's side of the family, and they harbor a lot of secrets. I never knew much about their histories and their dramas. My maternal grandmother is divorced and the family had fractured in particular ways, so there was a lot of touchiness. Many parts of the family were estranged from each other.
One thing I did eventually find out when I was a teenager was that my mother's grandmother, so my great grandmother, was actually Israeli. This was my mother's paternal grandmother, her dad, that she no longer had a relationship with because of her parents' divorce, and I didn't have much information beyond that I knew her name Rachel, but nobody really wanted to talk about this Israeli great grandmother. It was also an uncomfortable finding for me at the time because I'm
a past Indian from Jerusalem. The only Israelis I had ever engaged with at that point were soldiers, so I didn't press the subject. It was just another family secret we didn't talk about. When I got older, I got more curious about this and I asked for more information, and I asked my dad to confirm whether this was true, that my mother did in fact had an Israeli grandmother, Like this wasn't just a rumor. And he said he
had met her himself. In fact, he had met her while I was a toddler, apparently, and I had met her,
though of course I had no recollection. My dad says that during her visit to my mother's family, so this would be Rachel's grandchildren and then her daughter in law, there had been some argument and they had harangued her over the actions of her state and her state's military, and according to my dad, she replied that it had nothing to do with her because she came during the British Mandate era, she was classified as a past Indian Jew. And he told me as much of the story as
he had been told. Rachel was a Polish Jewish woman. She came to Palestine. She married my great grandfather, who, by my father's description, was kind of a wealthy Palestinian playboy type.
They had two.
Children, and in nineteen forty eight, when Israel was founded and Palestinians were ethnically cleansed, my great grandmother and great grandfather split up. What my dad understood to have happened was Rachel left, her children joined her new countrymen.
And that was that.
So, as I said, Jerusalem was split up. The western side was cleared of its Palestinians. There was an armistice line where actually the newfound Israeli state housed recent Arab Jewish migrants sort of as cannon fodder. One of those neighborhoods where Arab Jews were replaced later birth the Israeli Black Panthers. And then the western side was under Israeli rule and Palstinians on the eastern side of the city
fell under Jordanian rule. So the story goes that my great grandmother their left and my great grandfather put his children in an orphanage. My dad says he heard they were often mistreated, possibly because their.
Mother was Israeli. And later, when.
Israel occupied the rest of Jerusalem and the city was unified, my great grandmother did go looking for her children, but my grandfather didn't connect with her, so her son and moved to Jordan. Now from my mother, I also pressed for more information. She had never told me any of the story, but this year, literally a few weeks ago, she finally gave me Rachel's last name. I dug around to see what I could find out about her. I
asked online. I got the help of people who had expertise in Jewish genealogy, and what I found was a much more complicated picture. First, I found an academic article about a quote non partisan Zionist youth group in Belgium in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties. I don't speak Hebrew, so I'm going to mispronounce this. I think it's called zeier Ham getting their members ready to make the journey
to Palestine. That's what this article was about. They were nonpartisan in the sense that they included a lot of different strains of Zionism, so right wing Zionism, left wing Zionism among the members, but the Zionism itself, of course was taken as a given. Now, the article included quotes from former members of this group and kind of grainy black and white photos of which the name Rachel appeared
in the captions with her last name. And when I first saw the woman identified as Rachel in this group photo, I knew instinctively that I had found her because she looked like a blonde version of my mother. My intuition was very quickly confirmed because Rachel was identified by her married Palestinian name in the footnotes where she was quoted. So I found her here she was. I wanted to know more about what had happened to her after these
pictures Belgium were taken. The article states that she immigrated to Palstine in the early nineteen thirties at the encouragement of her quote Zionist mother. But what had led her between nineteen thirty three and nineteen forty eight to marry and then leave a Palestinian And then why was she visiting her grandchildren and apparently me in the nineteen nineties. The second big piece of information I got was because
of a Blue Sky account puy m Und Genealogy. This is a person who works on Jewish genealogy, has an interest in it, and he helped find an article that had been written about my great grandmother in the Israeli magazine Mahrev. So shout out to this guy. Now. This article was dated June twelfth, nineteen eighty seven. It's a three page spread and in this interview that Rachel gives, she talks about her childhood in Antwerp, her immigration to
Palestine as a young woman, and her marriage. So apparently after her civil ceremony with my great grandfather in nineteen thirty five, they had traveled Acros Europe for a whole year, even meeting the extended family in Poland, where Rachel's family was originally from. Her new husband was honored by her uncle,
who was an important rabbi. Now, for reasons she does not outline, Rachel discusses leaving her husband, maybe assuming the separation would be temporary in nineteen forty eight, But unlike the story that my father had heard and I had been told, she had not left her children, and in fact there had been four of them. She left two of them with their father and took the eldest and the baby that she was pregnant with to West Jerusalem. She kept her married name, and she never officially divorced.
I can only assume that she didn't guess the city would be divided, or maybe didn't understand for how long now, when Israel took the rest of the city in nineteen sixty seven, she not only reconnected with her I guess Palestinian children, but it seems from this article had warm relationships with them until the end. Rachel had assisted my grandfather, her son in marrying my grandmother, compiling the dowry. The children who had been raised ISRAELI had reconnected with their
family to varying degrees. Some of the Pastinian children visited the Israeli children in Tel Aviv. According to this interview, Rachel even reconnected with her husband, my great grandfather, living with him until he passed in nineteen eighty three. Rachel had also maintained a relationship with her daughter in law, my maternal grandmother, even after her son's divorce. In this article, I recognized the descriptions of my mother and my aunts.
Rachel had kept visiting them until she died in the mid nineteen nineties, so that explains the visit that my father had witnessed. I quickly realized that, of course, it had been easier for many members of my family to pretend this had never happened, try to keep the truth of these relationships from their children. I suppose they preferred a neater's story of clean breaks and solid national divisions.
It is also not long on me that much of this obfuscation relies on the common misogynistic trope of the negligent mother, which was apparently easy for everyone to believe. Now, I won't say that israel Pastinian marriages are common, or that intimate relationships between the two groups are easy to find, but they aren't unheard of. Israeli political parties are certainly scared enough of this prospect. They often voice condemnations of
inter ethnic relationships of this kind. So this phenomenon must exist at some level, and I guess I shouldn't be surprised either, because Palestine's most well known poet, Mahmud Rush, was famous for his poetry, among many of them a poem he wrote to his Jewish girlfriend titled Rita. This was the same man that joined the PLO, lived through the Israeli siege of Beirut, and wrote the pawsdinan declaration
of independence. Now, Rachel's story really boggled my mind in its contradictions because she had been part of a Zionist youth group, she had actively joined an effort to facilitate the migration of your or Jewish population to Palestine, eventually
leading to the displacement of Palestinians. But she had married to Palestinian and in the interview from Ariv, she describes running to the eastern part of the city when Israel occupied it in nineteen sixty seven to see quote her friends, and she says she would marry my great grandfather all over again. If she could you see, dear, it was
a great love, she told their interviewer. Ironically, my parents and my maternal grandparents, all of which share national and religious identities, both ended up divorced, but Rachel and her Palestinian Muslim husband somehow state together. At the same time. Rachel turned a blind eye to many things, and she herself hid many things. For example, she doesn't reveal the details of her children raised as Israeli. The interviewer in the mar Of magazine interview emphasizes that they wouldn't want
their information known, especially about their lineage. It seems that neither ever reconnected with their palsinan father and most telling for me in that interview, when my maternal grandmother, Rachel's daughter in law, complains of the Israeli soldiers in the neighborhood that she lived in, the interviewer reports that Rachel feigns deafness and returns the conversation to a discussion of the children. Now, Rachel isn't abnormal. Israeli society has turned
a blind eye to many things. Many Israelis pretend that the Palestinians as a national group do not exist they prefer to think of them, preferred to think of us as the reincarnation of Nazis, or the modern day manifestation of anti Semitism, or at best, Palestinians are merely generic
Arabs with easily sever ties to this particular land. The Israeli state even grows pine trees over emptied and demolished Palestinian villages to ensure return is impossible and to hide the extent of what happened in the latest war on Gaza. Images and videos from Gaza are dismissed as Ai fabrications.
They call it Pollywood, just an effort by Palestinians to put Israel in a bad light, and governments the world over seemed to have taken this position of turning a blind eye to the oppression Palstinians have faced and assuming Palstinians would live and die never having exercised their basic rights. All I can say is I'm living proof that these silences prolong the inevitable, that the truth eventually comes out
and the return is inevitable. The longer we wait to acknowledge the reality of the situation, the more people will suffer, and the more this kind of intergenerational trauma will continue. I recently finished Molly Krabapple's book Here where We Live as Our Country. On the Jewish Bound, she quotes a Jewish Bundislivic Hodes saying that quote, belief in mankind is not popular today. In these last years, we have all
seen it become deeply debased, despoiled and spat on. But if man is at heart a beast, no amount of running away will help end quote. This really resonated with me. I firmly believe that we can't rely on silence to disappear our problems. We can't run from each other. Let my family history be a testament to that. When we understand that, then the truth and the resolution and the return is only a matter of time, and maybe then the nakba will end. Thank you for listening and hope you all stay safe.
Welcome to It could happen here, a podcast about going on strike and hopefully winning. I am your host, Mia Wong. There's a concept in You're in Organizing called a hot shop, which is a shop where everything is moving really really quickly, and people are organizing really quickly, and bad stuff is happening really quickly, and people are reacting really quickly, and today we are going to talk to maybe the hottest shop I have ever encountered, and to discuss the shop.
I am talking to Jackie May and Deja Indigo, who are members and organizers of Real You Electrolysis Workers United. Both of you two, welcome to the show.
Hi, thank you, thank you for having us, Thank you for having us on such short notice. You said hot shop, and yeah, it's been a week, very hot week.
Indeed, I had heard this was going on and it was there's an attempt to go public. The next thing I heard was like the next day and there was a strike.
And I was like, oh my god, this is wild. So yeah, not even a week ago. Yeah, it will be.
I think by the time you're listening to this it will be one week.
Yeah, yeah, okay, that's fair. Yeah.
I want to mention this is being recorded on Monday and May twenty fifth. This situation is moving very quickly. There was a chance that things have changed by then. We will try to get an update in if something really major hass happened. But let's roll this back to the beginning. And I think the place I want to start is so you all are gets real You electrolysis
workers United. So you are electrolysis workers. I know this audience specifically of it could happen here has a significantly higher chance of the general population to know what electrolysis is. But can you explain for people who don't know or only kind of familiar, what electrolysis is.
Of course, electrolysis is the only FDA recognized method of permanent hair removal. It is a technique that dates back a surprisingly long time where we insert a filament about the size of a hair into individual hair follicles, and with the use of electricity to generate either heat or lie, we basically kill each hair follicle at its root, and that hair, if all goes according to plan, will not
come back. It is commonly used in gender affirming care, and that is one of the if not the specialty of real you electrolysis.
Yeah, and can you talk a bit about this in a gender affirming care context?
Of course, you know, if you are a transgender person and you are undergoing medical transition, there is a variety of reasons you might want to have hair permanently removed, either in preparation for surgery, both in terms of a transfeminine or trans masculine surgical context, you will need hair permanently removed from some parts of your body that will be involved in that. You also may want to have
facial hair or body hair permanently removed. Again, this supplies to both transfeminine, transmasculine, and people anywhere else on the transgender spectrum, because you know, not everybody wants to have body hair or facial hair.
Yeah, and this is something that I mean, I can personally say you can get a lot of dysphoria from body hair.
It can be real bad. Oh yeah, I can't.
And not having it is such a huge difference. Yes, And I guess a thing that I should say, so my understanding of electrolysisms. I have not done electrolysists. I have a lot of friends you have. But the thing about electrolysis versus like you know, shaving or something, is that once you hit a hair follicle, it's gone, and theoretically, after you're done with you know, like a bunch of the sessions, you just.
Don't have hair growing daring. Yes, correct, And also I should note that it is also covered by most health insurance that does coverage under affirming care I know we all have kind of mixed feelings about the w PATH standards, but it is considered the standard of care for hair removal under the w PATH. So, you know, a significant proportion of the patients at the really electron this clinic are using insurance to pay for their care. Yeah, which is really cool.
Not all trans healthcare is that expensive, but electrolysis is not the most cheap thing if you are paying out of pocket and it's really long.
Yeah, it's usually out of pocket. Is somewhere between one hundred and twenty to two hundred and forty dollars an hour, depending on your provider. And these are weekly sessions, usually at least an hour. Sometimes they can be less for those who have difficulty tolerating it. Some people go for even more, like some patients may elect to get like six hours of it done. But again, this is a lot of out of pocket costs, especially when it generally takes anywhere from a year and a half to three
years to fully clear an area. So this is why it's so important to have this covered by insurance because has it really adds up quickly.
Yeah, And I think this is also gets into what's important about this shop, which is that this is one of the few Latrills's places I've ever encountered where huge portions of the staff are trans. Yes, and yeah, can you talk a bit about what that's been like doing you know, like doing this kind of gender firming care on other trans people who normally could say this is a medical setting. I can count on one finger the
number of trans healthcare providers. I mean, I guess if you count pharmacists, I can add like a second finger in my entire life that I'm extremely lucky that I've even gotten one.
Trans hectare provider who is trans.
Well, it's an honor and a privilege to be able to work with other trans people for gender firm and care for our community. Because we don't just serve the Vancouver area, we also serve the PDX area.
And further, we have patients that commute from hours and hours away. That is true.
Yeah, for people who don't know a little bit of geography stuff that will become important later. So this is Vancouver, Washington, which is just like right across a river from Portland. This amazingly the fact that technically speaking, this river is like the state border will become important in that little bit.
Yes, yes, yes, it will. Oh boy. Yeah.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna ask all of you know, put a little pin in city that is technically across the state border from another city, but is like you just drive over a bridge and you're there. Let's go talk about some strike shit. Mm hmm Okay, so I guess to start. Can we talk about how organizing kind of first started at at Real Yola Chuls's.
Yes, it first started because they hired me mi a and hied me. Ever since I was a little girl, I have been enchanted with the idea of a workers union and people working together to make their conditions better.
It is something that I have had to learn and.
Practice on my own because I didn't know about the IWW. It's a thing that I was trying to do before I moved out here. And then this opportunity just drops into my lap and it's queer people, and you're working on queer people. I've got hosbumps. It's not because I'm cold, and and how could I, in good conscience just like let that opportunity go.
Yeah. Yeah, Jackie May is very much the motive force behind getting our shit together and unionizing. I remember from the time that I started, Jackie May was talking about having a goal to unionize the shop. We weren't expecting it to be on such a quick timeline, but I was really excited to have somebody else who was into doing this because I've always been a hardcore leftist and
an extreme socialist communist. I don't know whatever label you want to put on me workers' rights, like we should own the means of production and we should be the ones receiving all of the benefits from it. Yea, But Jackie May has just been like ready to go. But we can also talk about like the actual start to like okay, what did we actually start doing things to this direction?
Right?
You want to take that, Jackie May.
Yeah, So like light to have been going on since I got there back in actually June of last year. It's always just been real light, real surface level is in, hey, do you support a union? Would you like to consider.
Being in one?
One day?
And then I go about my day like converse like that's as far as the conversation goes, because that's all the information I need at that point. Yeah, so I knew who in the building was yes, and last month one of our members, someone who was already in talks with us, was fired, and the circumstances around that person being fired, the vibes were off. Right, Like the previous week, there was a dirty cart that just happened to appear in her room that would be worth the write up
to get her fired. Huh, that cart couldn't have been hers because before she started school, she moved that cart to another to her substitute clinicians room. Like, could could not be what management said it was.
So it looks like something else fabricated to.
Clarify this union member, This coworker was going on a leave of absence to attend a certification training program, so that is why she had a substitute clinician taking over her equipment. I should also add that this was the first time they have ever done room inspections on site yea. In fact, the only they've only done room inspections twice and both times resulted in a termination. Well that's not suspicious at all anyway, Sorry, Jackie Maye, please continue, No worries.
It's okay, We're listen. We're allowed to rabbit trail.
But we come back to So our friend was fired, right, it's super duper suspicious. Yeah, And I saw an opportunity and I took that opportunity to talk to people about it. And for like a few days after this it happened, nobody knew where she was at, nobody knew what happened. So the narrative was entirely up to me and just going, this is what they did, and we all know this. We all know this person, We've worked alongside this person, we all recognize her skill and how intelligent she is.
She's going to go on to teach this stuff. It's true, and it made all of us scared that one of our best could just be removed like that and go.
This is my understanding. This is a pretty small shop, right, like everyone knows everyone else.
Oh yeah, yes, yeah, like maybe maybe fifteen or sixteen practicing clinicians at a given time.
Thereabouts, which yeah, I guess makes it more scary when it's someone you know, when you're close to, just is just suddenly fired.
And I should note that most of us who have worked there are also patients there, so like a lot of these a lot of our coworkers are not just coworkers, they're also practitioners that provide gender affirming care to us. So we don't just have like a superficial sense of the clinical skill of these people. We have direct experience,
and that makes it just that much more devastating. When it's somebody you know is extremely good at their job is just suddenly gone under very suspicious circumstances, it's devastating.
So this gets into one of the truly wildest and most distressing parts of this entire story, which is, can you talk about the I guess I would just call it. The most neutral thing I can call it is the loan. Yes, absolutely. So remember when we kind of put a pin in the fact that Vancouver, Washington, is right across the river from Portland, Oregon. So there is a big difference between how the state of Washington and how the state of
Oregon regulates the practice of electrolysis. In the state of Oregon, you cannot practice electrolysis without first going through a certification program and passing a certification exam to become certified. In the state of Washington, as long as you are practicing under the authority of somebody who has been certified in
another state, you can practice electrolysis without certification. In fact, the state of Washington does not currently have their own certification framework for electrolysis, so those of us who work at Real EU Electrolysis were all hired without prior certification. I think there may be one or two exceptions over the years, but by and large, the overwhelming majority are
people who have no prior experience performing electrolysis. So Really You Electrolicists does have certified electrologists on staff who are responsible for the training of new hires.
One of the conditions of employment at Real U Electrolysis is to agree to sign a promissory note, wherein Really You Electrolicis will basically provide a stipend and pay for all expenses related to receiving certification from a certification program in exchange for four years of work at real Electrolysis.
Those who sign this note are not required to directly pay back any money unless they either fail to complete their schooling, fail to pass their certification, resign their position within four years, or are terminated, and at that point they are immediately liable to repay the full amount of the promissory note. So essentially, as soon as you enter schooling and again this is a condition of employment. Every single person who has been hired by really Electrolysis could
not start working without signing a contract. Agreeing to sign those prom story note when it comes time to be sent to school.
Yeah, can you talk about, like, how much money is it that you have to pay back if you either get fired or leave.
At least twenty one thousand dollars in this case, Jesus Christ like, oh my god.
Yeah, it's cartoonishly evil.
Yeah. I should clarify as well that most of us who are hired are not coming into this job from
a place of financial privilege. Most of us had some manner of skepticism over this contract, but because the opportunity just seemed so great, and because we had not heard any history of, you know, any sort of bad faith actions from management, I think we all just kind of decided, well, I get to work with a bunch of cool trans people on a bunch of cool trans people for decent pay and benefits, and they probably won't just fire me once I signed this loan, Like that wouldn't be cool.
And so where this really comes into play is that the union member, the coworker who was fired, as I mentioned before, was on a leave of absence to be in school, and basically she was fired and immediately they demanded repayment in full of this loan. So not only did she lose her job over extremely spurious circumstances, she now was on the hook for twenty one thousand dollars, like immediately. I think the deadline they gave her is in like two days.
So I want to add something to all of that. Yeah, they had her sign that loan knowing that she had two write ups on the books and that her next write up within those four years would lead to termination. They knew that they have that on file.
They admitted that to our faces. We had a group of witnesses who can attest to this because we did all confront them. That's jumping a little bit further ahead in the story. We'll get there.
Yeah, I just I want to stay here for a second to just sort of just walk through how unbelievably unhinged this is.
Which is that.
Yeah, So the condition of working here is that you have to sign like what is effectively an a dentured servitude contract. Like it's like, okay, you have to work here for like four years, and if we ever decide to fire you,
you can't leave. And if you ever decide to fire you, you just oh twenty one thousand dollars, which just on the face of it is such an unbelievably exploitive situation because yeah, this is a bunch of queer and trance people like no, no fucking transperson and has twenty one thousand dollars, Like that's just not a thing, Like yeah, we should certainly not one thousand dollars, Like what are we doing here.
Like.
Taking advantage of the trans community.
Yeah, and then you have that just as the baseline condition of just everyone has just the doom of gamaicles hanging over their head. And then also, you know, like what you were describing were, okay, you get someone to sign the contract knowing that you can get rid of them after one more infraction. That's such an incredible incentive to like mistreat and fire people, because if you fire someone, you can just collect, like try to collect like twenty one thousand dollars from.
Them, financially ruin somebody, financially destroy somebody, render them homeless.
Yeah, even Yeah, it's what we call a perverse incentive.
Yeah, you can just reduce someone effectively into a debt peon and usually that kind of threat is abstract. This is how we're It's a device to work and to stay in line. If you lose your job, then you're going to drown in all of the things you need to do to survive. But no, here, it's just yeah, you're down twenty one dollars.
In debt to this company that just fired you. Yep, and again that is due and payable immediately. That the way the contract is worded does not stipulate any sort of repayment period. Now, we have attestations from previous employees who have been fired under this contract and been released from it, so we do know that the owners of Really Electronicis will selectively choose to release terminated employees from
their contract. However, they have elected not to do that in the case of this union member, this coworker who was fired last month. Correct.
Yeah, so that also that also looks like retaliation your words, like sort of deliberately your words. Yeah, you know, it doesn't look good. There aren't good answers as to why you would do that in this situation and not in others.
The story gets more fun too.
Oh yeah, yeah, we're just getting started.
Before all of this gets even more unhinged, we need to go to I don't know, maybe a source of hingedeness and security. I mean, if that's true, I hope better things happen in your lives. But we're throwing to the products and services that support this podcast. We are back. Let's continue with this story here and get to I guess the next set of fir inks because this just keeps escalating.
So before we actually get to the next set of firings, we would have our first and Dejah correct me if I'm wrong, our second meeting. You are correct, Yeah, we would have our first and second meeting before the next firing.
May second, and May fourteenth. Yes, so that next firing would take place on Monday, May eighteenth.
That was Monday May eighteenth, Yeah, so like one week ago from when this is getting recorded. Which bear that in mind as the rest of the story plays out, because the timeline here is so condensed that like it's like all of the shit that happens with like a bad union busting campaign condensed to the span of like three days.
Yes, we are speed running bad boss versus union workers story, Like.
This is like one of the fastest escalations I've ever seen before.
We get this Monday, Let's talk about what happened at those two meetings, because this is genuinely such an impressive pace, Like, how fast all of this got organized?
Yes, So the first meeting May second, we basically gathered every clinician who we believed we could trust, who was not either a manager in training or did not have direct ties to management, and also who was on site, because there were some people that we would have loved to have talked to who were off site attending a certification program at another location. So we gathered up everyone we could. That started with about eight of us and
grew to ten as the night war on. We talked about the circumstances around the firing of that coworker who was in school. We all talked about our options for how do we proceed. We voted unanimously to form a union, and to do so under the auspices of the Industrial Workers of the world, thanks in part to Jackie May having contact with them and having gotten a bit of a lowdown on like what our options looked like. Yeah, so that was the TLDR of the first meeting. Ten people.
That's like two thirds of the shop, like of the total people yet.
Yes, of the people who were active practicing clinicians there, I think we were only missing a couple.
Yeap, which is really impressive. I wish we could have got them.
Yeah, we definitely wish we could have gotten to everybody or had been clearer on who was actually not management. Yeah, that's also a thing that like management will play a lot of games with who isn't isn't union eligible? I just want to like stop for a second and be like getting like two thirds or more of a shop to show up to the first meeting and vote to form a union is like that might be the fastest I've ever seen this happen. It's like you did this in one meeting.
Yeah, speed ran the entire organizing process like one meeting.
It's like unbelievable. We put this on Gamestown quick too. Yeah, like I maybe I don't know. We could submit it for a world record with new world record category any person unanimous. As they say, nobody organizes quite as well as a bad boss. That's true.
You have, yeah, you have you have the double benefit of bad boss firing people. And also like it's a bunch of queer and trance people, is like, yes, conditions for organizing.
Yes, So that meeting that was May second. The next meeting took place on May fourteenth. Now, Jackie Maye, do you want to talk a little bit before we talk about this meeting about some of the things that happened in between the two meetings, like certain actions by management and people who are manager adjacent. Oh right, right, yeah, so.
Our tools in laundry sterilization tech, maybe specialist, I'm not quite sure on the word for it. Salem is married to our director of operations, Zeric Lee' that's no boy. But wait, there's more. Oh no, Salem actually approached at least one of our one of our union members to ask directly if we were forming a union.
Yeah, which, by the way, you're not allowed to do. You're not supposed to do that, but you know that's yeah, great, incredible stuff.
It's a lovely gray area because Huz Melam isn't management.
But technically isn't management. Is simply married. Did you married to management? It's technically technically illegal, but like management's really really not supposed to be doing that.
Yeah, I think it also bears clarifying at this point that Xeric Lee, director of Operations and effectively the HR Department of really Electrolysis has absolutely heard Jackie May express positive union sentiment. M h, I forgot about that. This goes back to summer of twenty twenty five. Like, there have been multiple instances where people in management have directly heard Jackie May talking about being pro union. Granted, Jackie May has always been properly elliptical about it in the
presence of management. Not it's hard, but yeah, but the suspicion was clearly established long ago. Yeah, that is true. That is true. This will be important. Yeah, foreshadowing is a literary technique, so to continue during these two weeks in between meetings thereabouts. Yes, we did have Salem spouse of the director of operations poking around asking questions. Oh boy.
Yeah, And I will say this is also a very common management tactic of course, as part of why when you're organizing you need to do the basic power mapping of figuring out who is close to the bosses and who is close to management and what ties they have, because that dramatically affects Yeah, you two absolutely both know this, but for the listeners, Yeah, it's very important to figure out who the person who's married to management and will report to them.
Beans.
Yes, so I treated as game theory. I have treated all of this like it has been a game. Yeah, because that's how I process it. That's that's that's all I needed to say about that.
Go ahead, deja. Yeah. So, to the credit of every union member, not a single person violated op SEC on this nobody confessed to any union organizing activity. Yeah, that doesn't change that they continued to be suspicious in any case.
We had our second meeting on May fourteenth. At that meeting, present were representatives from the IWW as well as a representative from ILWU Local five, because at that point we had not been formally endorsed by a union and we wanted to get some perspectives from whoever was available to speak to us, and those were the two shops that were available to come talk to us. At that meeting, we again voted unanimous lee to continue with organizing unionizing.
We were initially going to do it under the auspices of ILWU Local five. However, their onboarding protocols are a little bit more time consuming and involved than the IWW's and the following Monday, which Jackie May will be talking about in just a second. There were some circumstances that sort of forced us to go with the union. Who could get us on board lickety split. Yeah.
So that Monday, I want to say, it was a midday. I had just finished with like my I want to say, my first two people, and was I was on my way to the breakroom to grab a drink, and on my way out, I see my coworker, fellow union member, and even my housemate come out of her office flanked by real you electrolysis management.
And the last.
Time I saw her that day was she had tears streaming down her face and she just goes, Jackie May. They fired me, and I responded immediately, I got I want to say five for six of us to gather outside of Director of Operation Zeric Lee's office and we voiced our displeasure. We voiced that our coworkers should have their jobs back. We voice that none of us feel
safe because of the working conditions. None of us feel safe because of the way management goes about handing out disciplinary actions, the inconsistency with the different things that they will or will not punish. I just see his eyes peeking up over his monitor, and he's like, well, I can't. I can't discuss what's in somebody's personnel file, and also I can't hire them back. My hands are tied. You don't know all of the documentation on our side. So I go, Okay, who else do we got to talk to?
And xeric Lee points us to President of Real You Electrolysis on a lantry, and we go down to her office and we say the same things, and she says, I'm not what I'm paraphrasing. I cannot make unilateral decisions. Yes, And I asked who else we would have to talk to about this, and she said that would be a co president, Lea La Favor and director of Operation Xeric Lee. I turned around and right across the hallway from Onna's
office is Leah in reception. So we give them the exact same spiel of we're not happy with this, this needs to be corrected.
None of us feel safe about this. And this was not simply Jackie may speaking either those of us present all voice concerns, myself included. You know, it was very clearly not the actions of a single individual, but of a concertive group.
Yes, they may trust me to speak for them, but I also know when to be quiet so that they can voice their opinions. At that point, Desia had finished with all of their appointments and said, Hey, I'm done for the day. I'm going home. This isn't me giving you an official resignation. I need to go home and consider my options. And I followed suit with I'm not giving you a resignation. You have essentially created a family emergency for me, and now I have to go see
to that family emergency. That is important. We will come back to that interaction, oh boy later, yes.
I will say.
Being one of the two presidents of the company and someone goes, don't fire our coworkers and you go, sorry, that's not like I can't make unilateral decisions is the most absolutely chicken shit response I've ever seen in my entire life. Like it's like, it's like fucking it's fucking like verdev I'm braun. Like when the rockets go up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department. It's like you are the president of the company, like I.
What are we doing here? Like like I don't.
Make nilateral decisions, like you are the president, Like there's like three people management.
What are we doing here?
I mean, I guess that's like, I mean, the thing you're doing here is everyone in secession is trying to be like, Ah, I actually can't do anything.
It's like, yes, you can, you do run the business. But I would also like to note that this conversation held between the group of us with Hon Lantry and Lela Favor. Very early on in that conversation, on a Lantry said this conversation is over and walked away. However, Leah, yeah, they did continue to have a conversation with us, and was the person that we informed that we are not resigning. Anybody who leaves today is doing so because their schedule
is clear, or they are having a family emergency. Both of these things are acceptable reasons for leaving your shift, and that has been established through ample precedent.
Yeah.
So that was Monday. That was Monday, May eighteenth.
Jesus Christ, that's not even all of Monday, right, I want to point out or include that straight from the job site, I went home, I grabbed my other roommate, who is at the time wasn't a part of the union, because wasn't an employee of real EU electrolysis, but is on the real EU Electrolysis hiring list.
So is it a contractor situation?
Not quiet, they will work with us in the future.
Oh, it just like hasn't been fully hired.
Yeah, that's kind of the way they do things, Like they hire people well in advance of having them actually start work, Like most of us were hired like months and months and months before we started actually taking shifts.
So Monday, I go home, I pick up my housemate who is incredible and has a special interest in documentation and bureaucracy. She and Deja are my two documenters and shout out, shout out Tovey because we wouldn't have been
able to get here without you. And we went to the IWW over in Portland and we had a meeting with them, and we just walked in there with the intention of asking for help from like their solidarity network of like, hey, we have just been put into a hardship status at this point because of what has happened. Can you help us, like with rent And I want to say that meeting was like two or three hours long. We talked about a lot of plans moving forward and
instead of just having support with rent. We came away with a plan of what we would be doing next, and Tuesday came. We had all eleven people of this union meet in the parking lot and sign our petition together. We got it photo copied, we made digital copies. We
made sure it was all safe. Our person got that stuff filed away for us, got us some very nice red folders to be able to keep all of these documentation, and we were given I was given a red folder labeled management and we planned to deliver this on Wednesday. Tuesday was why Tuesday was like quiet before the storm.
Quiet. Yeah, we were all.
Braced that I was going to be fired because while I wasn't swearing or rude to management, I wasn't as even toned or level headed as I am right now.
I was also bracing to be fired because I did also do a lot of that speaking, and I was extremely emotional at the time as well. Absolutely, Oh, I do think there is one little tidbit that is important to mention about the employee who was fired on Monday is not only was this person union mem bur and one of the organizers, this person also had a fully like workplace sanctioned and endorsed romantic relationship with the first person who was fired. Oh so, like again, this is
this is not like they were illicitly dating. It's like management had a protocol, had forms and all that for when coworkers are dating. It's in the employee handbook that they're okay with that. Yes, and so it looks.
So they're like moving through the Yeah, huh, that's that's that's interesting. That's oh boy, I oh, yes, there's a thing this an FAA guy said about. There's there's a story of that guy who was like flying around in a lawn chair with like balloons attached to it.
Oh my god, I know that story.
Yeah, and then the thing about that, the news calls the FAA guy, and the FAA guy goes, we don't know what section of the Federal Aviation Cody's violated, but when we figure it out, we'll prosecute with it. And like, that has to be some kind of violation of like like specifically targeting people in a relationship, Like there's there's got to be something there, but I don't know. And admittedly, American workplace law is a complete nightmare. But that is extremely sketchy and shitty, And yes.
We're going to get it sorted out.
Yeah, oh yes, yeah, I just oh boy, Jesus Christ, that that feels not good and good lord.
Okay, so Jackie may please continue.
I slept real good Tuesday night into Wednesday morning. Let me just say that I slept real good Wednesday morning. We coordinated and we went. We went a little early. Admittedly, I got a little that there was a little bit of adrenaline and I kind of jumped the gun, just just a hair. We were supposed to wait until eleven fifty five to deliver our sign petition.
It's okay.
Yeah, we all had new appointments and we are all so committed to our patients that none of this process like interrupted patience in treatment. All of this had been coordinated around our schedules so that people got to continue getting treatment.
That is correct. There's never been a point where a patience treatment session has been interrupted or a patient has been abandoned. I'm saying this because there are some accusations from management to that effect, and I would like it on public record that that is absolutely false and that we can all attest to this foreshadowing more foreshadowing. Yes, boy, sorry, oh boy.
So Wednesday morning I have the privilege, I have the backing of the crew to go serve this paperwork. We had somebody from the union kind of send out send out a feeler text to find out when the president and co president would be in the building. It wouldn't be until after twelve thirty. We serve that paperwork to Director of Operation Xeric Lee. He took that at eleven forty eight. He doesn't really give us a response. Besides, there's a lot here. I'm going to have to read
it all thoroughly and get back to you. But we go about our days. I have to leave site after two of my appointments because I left my phone at a gas station, so I had to leave and come back.
It's okay, we got it. It's all good. Yay. Two point fifty.
One, I'm back on site. I am in my own office. I have co President Lee la Favor and one other member of management president, and they are firing me. They are handing me three right up. Is christ now The earliest of those write ups, or I should say I guess the oldest of those write ups are from May fourth, twenty twenty six, and it essentially is a write up that says Jackie, you were rude to management. Now let's talk about why. Let's talk about why that write up happened.
You see, by that point in time, we were on the third pay period where we were all being given paper checks.
After years, yeah, years of direct deposit, like long history of direct deposit only switched to paper checks.
We were given paper checks. Those checks had been bouncing.
The paychecks are bouncing. Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, that's not just Jackie May's either.
Yes, Jesus Christ, that is true. That, like I'm what I will say is on average, per pay period, like a handful of us had their checks bounce.
That will come into play later. That's foreshadowing. Oh boy.
Yeah, so my check bounced once my bank account went okay, that's kind of sus my check bounced a second time. I currently don't have access to a bank account because my bank has labeled what has happened fraudulent activity, and my bank is investigating not me, because they've now figured out that it's not me that's doing it. I can prove the checks are.
Bouncing, Jesus Christ. But yeah, but they still locked your bank account. Yeah, because the other people's checks bounts. Jesus Christ.
Yeah, so we should. We should note here that we all were aware that Jackie May was locked out of fair bank account and experiencing financial hardship to the point where we actually did have some of our union members like donating food to Jackie May.
Solidarity Network came through for me because that kept us fed.
That kept us like we were able to have gas for that for the next like to get us to the next payday. Essentially, this this whole.
Thing would set me back like a full pay period, Like I wouldn't get the last check cashed until we got to the next pay period on Friday, because we get paid every two weeks.
Yeah, and this is something we've talked about on this show a lot, is that, like you know what I mean. I think most people listening to this show understand this on an intuitive level. But it's like if your paycheck fucking bounces, that's really fucking bad, Like yeah, holy shit, And it's like, yeah, like obviously that's going to cause
like unbelievable like financial distress and it fucking sucks. I'm really sorry you've been having a deal with that on top of fucking everything else, because that's just, yeah, that that's something that can just like completely fuck your entire life. That's through no fault of your own. Yeah, it's literally your boss is fucking up.
Yep. God.
I want to note that still to this day, I do not have access to my bank account as far as I know, Jesus Christ, the last week has been really crazy and like I haven't been able to get out to like or anything to get something new set up.
So that's just in the in the background, Like you're not even getting paid because the checks are boundary.
Yes, And Jackie May was understandably distressed over this and expressed that frustration, and that was the cause of a write up that was used to justify termination. Right is that do I have that? Right, Jackie May? That is correct?
That is the first light up, Christ, that right up from May fourth, righte up is the May fourth.
I have heard of a lot of bullshit right ups in my time doing this job. Right up for being rude to management because you were talking to them about the fact that your paycheck bounced.
That is the worst right up I have ever heard that. It's like that, I like even even including.
Ones were like because obviously like people will just like make up shit to do a write up for but like that's like a special level of like, oh no, this did kind of happen, but it's because they fucked up.
And bounced your paycheck. Jesus Christ. So, Jackie May, I believe you were recounting the write ups that Lela presented to you wrote that I'm I'm just losing my mind. That's so awful.
So the second one is because they did a room inspection.
It's really weird.
They like doing room inspections when they want to remove somebody. Yeah, so there was a room inspection and they were like, your room's not okay, that's your statement.
The third write up.
Do you remember when I had a family emergency that they caused and I left sight because they caused a family emergency.
Yeah.
My third and final write up was because I left early and they tried to say, well, Jackie, you didn't ask for our permission. Excuse me, Jackie May, you didn't ask for our permission to leave for the day. You just told me it was happening. And that was my full write up.
I would like to add to this that I myself have multiple documented instances of having to leave work because of a health or mental health emergent situation. And there has never been a situation where I said, may I leave? It has always been I need to leave. And I have note noted and observed this with other employees as well.
None of these incidents has ever culminated any write up or any sort of disciplinary action, So this is clearly inconsistent with ample precedent for the application of disciplinary standards.
Yeah, they're just just trying to find reasons to get three write offs, which is also like just a sign of how well y'all are like doing your jobs that like, because like normally employers have like random code infractions that are always just sort of laying around that they can pick up and be like hey, but it's like they couldn't even like find anything. They had to just like basically fabricate complete just like absolute nonsense.
Yes, like Jesus Christ, am I recalling correctly, Jackie May that these are the first instances of any documented disciplineplinary action against you in your tenure at really electrolis. Yeah, I'm a good girl.
I follow the rules and I do so very very well.
So and then suddenly it's like, oh, here's here's three ride ups.
Like again, like the the post.
Facto right up for the Hi, I am upset that my paycheck bounce converce Jesus.
Yeah. And so I will note that even that very first right up did take place after we were engaged in organizing activity, after management had demonstrated suspicion. Yeah, and all of these right ups were delivered within a few hours of the delivery of our petition for voluntary recognition, uh.
Huh, which I will say looks not even just suspiciously like it looks like they have just like a giant polar bear sitting there, and the polar bear is union retaliation, and they've like painted a little clown face on it and gone, this is a clown nut retaliation for forming a union. Like no, that that is a polar bear, Like what are we doing here? Oh god, So what happened next, Jackie may.
Oh gosh, what happened next? Well?
Uh, you know, I had to clean out my office, so I grabbed the stuff that was important to me. I took my time. I wasn't angry. I didn't I really didn't speak throughout much of it, because at that point the best thing I could do is just take my recording not say anything. And as soon as I was out of the office, I sent a message to the union members that said, hey, I was just fired.
They walked me out of the building. If we're going to do something about this, we need to do something about this now.
And that was it. Two fifty one.
By four oh one pm Wednesday afternoon, we had the rest of the union organize a organized in stage a walkout in solidarity.
That's really quick. I'm gonna let Deja take over because I was outside. Yeah. So at the point that we found out Jackie May had been terminated, we called an emergency vote in our secure messaging platform that we used to coordinate things, and we voted in favor of doing a walkout once we had each finished with our obligations
to patients. In fact, I actually had an appointment scheduled from three fifteen to three forty five that at that point I elected to continue that appointment, and I did so. I provided treatment as usual, cleanup as usual, chart noting as usual. Not a single person who engaged in this walkout did so without completing their scheduled treatment in that
time slot. Once that appointment was finished and everything was in compliance within my room and the rooms of those who were not stuck in appointments, because we did have a couple of union members who were in longer appointments
who were not able to join the walkout. Immediately, those of us who were free did walk out, And when we did this, we spoke directly to Lea La Favor, who was sitting at the reception desk, and said that we are staging a formal walkout in protest of the wrongful termination of Jackie May, and this is not a resignation, this is a legally protected action under the National Labor
Relations Act. Leah then said that anyone who walked out that door must immediately surrender their keys and was no longer welcome on the premises.
Now, Jesus Christ in terms of like open retaliation for union activity, like, oh boy.
Yeah, we were, oh honestly, Mia, We were so gobsmacked at the just absurdity that she would take such a blatant action of retaliation that our response was, are you sure you want to do that? And the answer was yes. So initially we did not return our keys because we wanted to confer with somebody from the IWW. So we spoke with an IWW representative who advised us that their demand for the return of the keys was a lawful demand for the return of company property, and that we
should comply with that. So we did. We gathered up our keys, we sent a representative back in to return them, and at that point we were officially on strike. We reunited with Jackie May in the parking lot. We started strategizing about how we were going to do this. IWW sent some folks our way to provide support. I took off to pick up some art supplies so that we could make signs, and just general like things like water
and snacks. Our other union members who were currently inside treating patients, finished their appointments as scheduled and emerged when they were no longer responsible for any patient care also
turned in their keys. At that point, we did have an IWW representative on scene who accompanied those employees back inside to return the keys and to confirm to Lela Favor directly that this is not a resignation, It cannot be construed as a resignation, that this is a protected organizing action, and that all we were doing was complying with a lawful demand for the return of company property.
We have plenty of witnesses to this, regardless of any statement that they may choose to make do the contrary, which also I just want to know.
This is the first time I've ever gotten timestamps lockouts of the best document in one of peace I've ever seen.
Y'all are very organized. Oh yeah, Oh my god, No, no, we're not. We're not playing around. Yeah. So at that point, Jackie, may I think you can take it from here?
Yeah, so real quick, I got to go back. We got I forgot a very important detail about Monday after after my coworker, union member and housemate was fired. In talking to Zeric Lee, I looked him in the eyes and I told him, don't do this. I said, please don't do this. Please don't call my bluff on this. Please don't make me do this. And we're here now. I jumping back to Wednesday, I had to go off site.
I was meeting with some IWW members who were We were mainly discussing what we were going to do next in or what options we had in response to a mass firing. We spent a couple hours at that. I came away understanding a whole bunch more as to what we're doing. I returned to the shop, and I think I don't remember it very well because I was all emotion and adrenaline at that point in time.
What I will say is that when on.
A Lantry and Leola Favor were getting in their cars to leave site, I made sure that they heard me, that the block heard me, that a good chunk of downtown Washington could hear.
My anger and my passion.
If I don't know if you can tell in my voice right now, but I kind of went a little too hard.
On it, and it's why I sound like I do now. Well, that's scratchy. It happens. I'm honestly surprised I can speak as well because there's been lots of chanting and singing and yelling. And yeah, because we have been on the picket line pretty much since then, every single day that the business is open. That is correct.
Yeah, which I want to roll back for a second and just point out that like going from yeah, we all signed our union petitions and then we delivered it the next day, and then that same day everyone is on strike is astonishing.
The pace of.
It is absolutely incredible. And then also just it says a lot about the solidarity that you all have and all of your like you all's character that a yeah, there's just everyone does a walkout, goes on strike and then be Also, I think it speaks to like who you're fighting for here, both each other and also the fact that like all of you were so careful to
make sure that your patients got their care is. Yeah, it is something that I think speaks It says a lot about the kind of people all of you are, and it says a lot about the kind of people that management is, that this is what they're doing to people who who both fight for each other and also care deeply about the patients and the people that they're taking care of.
Yeah, yeah, I really do. I know Jackie May and I are the ones who are kind of operating as the mouthpiece, but I absolutely need to express the deepest, most sincere appreciation for all of the other union members because you know, not everybody involved in this has been as just like gung ho angry, like screw up, let's do this like this has been really difficult and nerve racking for a lot of them, but you know what, they have followed through and persevered, and not a single
person who started this with us has switched sides or dropped out. Everybody has been so brave and so committed and showing up so fiercely, And yeah, we are also like our patients are still the most important thing. Like, yes, we've been picketing, but we have not been turning anybody away from crossing the picket line. We every patient that shows up to be treated by one of the very few people who are still on site providing care at
really Lutchles's crosses the line with our complete blessing. And we are absolutely vocal and unequivocal about that that we are not trying to deny anybody care and in fact, like we are reaching out to other electrology providers out there to you know, try to offer some options to our patients who have chosen to forego their care out of solidarity. You know, we really we want to get back to work and go back to giving care or to our people, but management has made that impossible. Yeah.
I think one of the things that comes through really clearly here is like, yeah, how willing management is to just hurt people, and how dedicated all of you are to making sure that people you're caring.
For get their care. And also.
The just astonishing amount of bravery that it takes to not only go on strike and continue to be on strike, but also to do that in a situation where getting fired potentially means that you have to fight off paying the company that was employing you. Striking against twenty one thousand dollars. That is some of the worst conditions imaginable, and all of you did it anyways, and it's one of the most incredible things I've ever seen.
Thank you. It's almost pride. It's twenty twenty six. We're making history here.
This union is for trans people, buy, trans people to provide care, to buy and large other trends and queer people. And weirdly, I have to say thank you to our two bosses because if they hadn't have made the decisions that they made, things could have been so different. It didn't have to be this way, is what I have to say. It didn't have to be this way. But
they chose this. They chose this, and we have chosen it every time, every opportunity to choose each other and to choose our community and go no, you're not going to bully one of us. We're not allowing us anymore. We are sticking together.
Yeah, and it's it's been really incredible seeing the way that all of you have have taken this opportunity and taken all of these risks to fight for each other. There's a quote that I heard about you from managements about why they hired a bunch of trans people that I was wondering if you could tell the audience what that quote is, because Jesus Christ.
It's a supermajority of transition, which is super rarely almost almost the entire workforce.
Yeah.
Yes, so this quote comes from president on a lantry from the fourth of July company barbecue held at their house in twenty twenty five. Oh no, with this shit, eat grin. She says, Yeah, if you pay a trans woman thirty dollars an hour and you give her health insurance in a little bit of respect, she will march through a brick wall for you.
Jesus Christ.
Like, there's two immediate obvious angles.
One it's like, oh, so you like knew what you like, you knew what you were doing here, right, You were deliberately hiring You were deliberately hiring trans people because you thought, because you thought they were they would be easier to exploit and that's hideous.
Those are your words. Yeah, I like that.
That's that's yeah, this is this is my analysis of this is like, that's Jesus Christ. And then b also, this is this is really some like your chickens are coming home to roost. Like you you you have sown the wind and you are now reaping the whirlwind. Because it is true that trans people get treated like absolute shit, and it's very nice to get a job where you're not being treated like shit.
But it's also true that if you decide.
To fuck over a bunch of trans women, like, we will fight for each other, and trans people and preeople will fight for each other. And I think that's one of the sort of beautiful things about you know, as much as all of this absolutely fucking sucks, but like the fact that you were able to pull this many people off the line immediately and get a strike going, you know, that has like almost all of the clinicians
are on strike. It's this real refutation of what management believed about trans people, which is like, no, actually, you can't just fucking sit there and exploit us, because we will organize and fight.
Yeah, we'll fight for each other. We will, And I did want to stress to like the diversity of our workforce, like we are not all trans women. We become like a variety of backgrounds, a variety of ages, you know, Like I don't know how old the oldest among us is, but I know I'm forty three, and we have somebody as young as eighteen on the workforce.
And they're all in the picky line together. It's beautiful. It's it's incredible. What is what is the state of things sort of right now? And what are you fighting for in the strike? And I guess how can people help?
Big questions? Well, we are officially endorsed by the IWW. We are now IWW Industrial Union six'. Ten the picket is. Ongoing our fellow union members are on the picket line right now as we are recording. This at this, point
management has elected not to bargain with. Us they have sent a copy and paste letter to all of us who were present for the walkout On may, twentieth basically requesting a response and making some demonstrably materially false allegations about the nature of the walkout and the conversations that we're had with. Management so we have a letter from the union that we are going to send from the union email address and will be endorsed by all the individual.
Members but other than, that that's the only contact we've hat with. Management so they do not seem interested in bargaining or in resolving the. Strike they have not asked for. Demands our demands are fairly.
Simple having management go no contact drud to strike is not, normal like completely literally no context for one. Email that's like weird by management drud toh strike, Standards like usually they're at least, communicating like sometimes they do, this but like.
That's fucked by management.
Standards SO i can explain why that. Is do you remember earlier when djus said that on a lantry had declared that this conversation was.
Over it's still.
Over it's still. Over oh my, god this conversation is still. Over because that's what she tells herself when she needs to feel in.
Control so we would, assume SO i would assume that is that is.
True i've been treating lists like game, theory and that
opinion is purely. Speculative what's not speculative is our demands reinstatement of employment of all union, members including those terminated prior To may twentieth twenty twenty, six the expungement of all disciplinary records for all reinstated, employees backpay for all reinstated, employees the immediate cessation to any and all collections activities related to the outstanding debts owed to REAL U electrolysis by any and all union, members voluntary recognition of REAL
U Electrolysis Workers UNITED iwwiu six,' ten and the immediate commencement of bargaining for a new labor contract wherein our right to strike shall not. Be curtailed.
This is like one of the THINGS that i think about a lot in terms of just how unbelievably unreasonable management, is being which is that those are such unbelievably reasonable and, moderate DEMANDS like i, don't know like when you reach the point where like paychecks are bouncing because your bosses are, Fucking you like just just the amount of reasonableness and maturity that all of you are showing and the just mix of staggering incompetence and evil management.
Is showing is it's.
Really Staggering, And YEAH and i guess that leads me to the other part, of that, which, is yeah how can people?
Support? Y'all yeah that's sort of like an ongoing thing we're working on. Putting together we don't really have like a web presence at the time of. This recording we do have an email address for the union that we've been directing, people towards and that is, all lowercase all one Word Real union electrolysis at gmail. Dot com and that's ELECTROLYSIS IS E L E C T R O L Y S. I.
S yeah, we will we will put we'll put the email in the description and fantastic when media stuff and like social media stuff, gets online we will we'll put that in the.
Description, too yeah, right now that is the best way to. Reach us believe you could also reach out TO the Iww and portland since that's so we're. Working with they do coordinate things like strike funds and financial assistance and, all that and so we do have their resources available, to us and that might be the most. Expedient way, but yeah we are working as fast as we can to get other, things going like. Internet presence this has all happens, so quickly. It's, astonishing also do you want
people to show up to? Your pickets and, if so where? Is? That, oh please we.
Would Love that the address for that is nine Oh Seven harney Street, In, Vancouver Washington, Downtown. Vancouver washington i'll say, that again it's nine Oh Seven. Harney, Street awesome i'm out show.
Your support. Thank, You yeah and the picket does take place like at the mouth of the. PARKING lot i know there has been some confusion from some folks who wanted to come out as to where they. Meet us, you know it's On On. Harney street like just listen for the music and the cheers and you'll. Find.
Us Yeah and i've been out to visit the picket line and it's it's a really. Sweet time everyone there is great and as always are bringing, Picket lines like just just being on a picket line just in support is like get. Incredible experience and also like you if you can like bring food and water, and stuff it's always something that helps.
A lot and, oh, yes yeah. Thank you by, the, WAY yes i would like you also add as far as, support is it's not just us who, need support it's also. Our, Patients yeah so anybody who is practicing electrolysis In The Greater portland, vancouver area who is willing to provide care to our displaced patients please reach out to that email address as well so that we can direct them. To.
You, Awesome Well DeAsia jack You made thank you so much for coming on. The show, AND yeah i hope we can talk to you fairly soon after.
You win, Thank you thank you for, having us thank you for letting us tell. Our, story yeah of course. It's incredible this is such a big help and you you also are such an inspiration and such a treasure to. This Community like i've been doing so good and not thank girling over being on, your show BUT like i have a long, time listener and so this is, just like oh, my god oh, My god i'm talking to Me a walt. Right NOW well i think.
YOU KNOW a i want, TO say i think what you're doing is significant and more inspiring than me going on and doing. A podcast like the fact that you you running this strike is just, fucking incredible and the fact that you're fighting for your people and fighting for your patience is a just unbelievable credit to all of you as people, and too, you know like just like to to two trans people, in general you are a
credit to. Us all thank, YOU also i want, to say and this is more Evident something i've been saying on the show for a. Long time but like the people who form, unions there it's not some kind of just like special class. Of people it's it's, just literally, it's ordinary everyday people like you, the listener who are the people who join these things and build these booplets and fight.
For them and.
You know like you too can be the person who builds builds the union you were place and fights forward and wins. Creat end when we, work together when we, organize together when, we fight we can. Fucking win.
We, can yeah if, WE'RE done i need to get out to the front LINE so i can get back to hollering at these people because they.
Need Hollered, App yeah i'm all fired.
Up Now, SO, minneapolis hi and Welcome, to outlaw a podcast about how the law is used to crush descent IN.
The us i'm, Your. Host olive on the previous Episode, of Outlaw On It Could, happen here we zoomed in on legal repression of rapid respire bonders in Ice. Occupied minneapolis on, This episode i'm Joined, By bina Joey And, moe movement attorneys Based In, New york Illinois. And california in, this conversation we zoom out to talk about the larger trends and repression of RESISTANCE to ice activity across the country and how to prepare for the long, road ahead.
From, the north From, the south.
From everywhere Welcome. To outlaw, to start could you all, introduce yourselves the work you do and how it connects to the repression OF anti ice. Protest, ACTIVITY okay.
I guess we're gonna start with the. Oldest here My Name's. JOEY mogul i am Based.
IN chicago i am the Director Of movement Partnerships At Movement, law lab which is a national organization that is very much in the anti authoritarian fight in.
The nation prior To Joining.
Movement, LAW lab i was At The People's law office for over twenty, six YEARS where i did mostly civil rights litigation against law enforcement officials and criminal defense of police violence survivors as well as protesters, and organizers and at different points have been proud to represent several organizers
and many movements seeking justice. And liberation i'm also Part Of Chicago Torture justice memorials and a board member Of The Chicago Torture justice center and very much involved in the movement, for, justice redress and particularly Reparations for chicago police torture survivors during. The surge Here, IN chicago i was proud to work with a group known As The Black Community, care collective serving as a coordinator of their.
Legal committee and that was a group that was very much involved in the resistance and care work that was Happening During Operation, MIDWAIGHTLETS.
Joe i don't know if you're the oldest, person HERE but i was referred to today as A gen, x loser if that makes you feel.
Any better.
My Name Is Maura.
Meltzer cohen everybody CALLS. ME mo i am an attorney in private Practice In new YORK and i work in particular to defend people against the politically motivated abuse of the. LEGAL system i Also Teach Federal, Indian Law professional Responsibility and LAWYERING At cuny School of law to the world's best and most brilliant.
Law students Hi everybody bina ahfa she. HER pronouns i also have referred to as an ELDER and i don't know when, that happened but here.
WE are.
I am currently an associate at a law From in la Called hatzel stormer RUNNIGAND where i practice civil rights impact litigation and also where we are external general counsel for some, movement Groups including Muslims For just Futures And jewish Boys. For peace before going To hadzel storm and switching to, CIVIL rights i was a state and federal public defender for nearly, a decade a state Defender In
new york and a federal defender HERE. In la prior, TO that i practiced international law and animal, rights law and a lot of my motivation as well has been to support movements and organizers fighting back against the. State repression but that's been a big part of, my work giving Know your, rights trainings advising people and organizers and organizations on their rights and what they, you know what the law says.
You can and.
Can't do from a.
Radical, lens well thank you all for being here over the past, few years from the Movement For palestinian liberation to the many ways people are organizing against ice and. Authoritarianism today i'm curious to start by just hearing a little bit about what broad shifts you're tracking right now in the state's playbook for. Crushing, DISSENT well I mean.
I think that, we've seen and you're talking to people who've represented organizers and activists who have been prosecuted by state actors. FOR decades i think that what, we're seeing particularly with, this administration is the weaponization of, federal charges and we're seeing the weaponization of federal charges, en MASS and i think this is.
By design we are seeing.
That With The National Security presidential memorandum number seven Issued By president trump, and administration where they are wanting to enlist the Use Of Joint Terrorism task force to go after people they deem to be quote domestic, terrorists unquote and that means they are going after individuals who they claim have extreme viewpoints, on immigration radical, gender Ideology anti.
AMERICAN sentiment i don't believe we agree with, these determinations and, in fact we absolutely oppose and object to.
These determinations but these.
Are individuals who do not agree with this administration's views or takes, on immigration, on gender on anti, black violence and. The rest and we see though that this administration is
actually working hand in glove with. One another so after the issuance Of The National Security presidential memorana, over seven we Now have panbiani IN The Us attorney's office issuing This memorandum, december fourth, twenty five where they are basically calling On The joint Terriors And, task force they're calling on, federal agents and they're calling On the Department of justice
to go after organizers and activists throughout. The nation they list twenty seven enumerated crimes and those memos things, like, rioting looting so, called, doxing swatting conspiracies to impede or assault law, enforcement officers destruction, of property and.
The rest as well as trying to enlist the use of the.
Irs and other tax crimes to go after organizers and organizations in. Several, ways essentially anyone who opposes this administration is someone in the.
Target sites can you tell me more about what these federal charges are and what is new about what we're seeing?
Right now so now what we've seen since the onset of, this administration so for over a year now we have seen the exponential rise and federal charges being lodged.
AGAINST organizers i think that is very much a different landscape than we have seen. In DECADES and i don't want to say there hasn't been the use By the Department of justice to bring federal charges in, the past but not in this massive scale that we are currently seeing it. Right now and so what we are, SEEING is i, would say, in particular we're seeing, these assault impeding harassing, officer charges which IS. Eighteen usc section, one
eleven being brought in scores across. The nation that is not something we typically have. Seen before we are also seeing charges of conspiracy to impede OFFICERS. Eighteen usc section two. Forty, one again that's not something we generally have. Seen, BEFORE generally i, can say, for example as someone who Was in chicago who was part of representing protesters who were Protesting The Democratic. National convention generally the federal government and federal.
Agencies don't get involved in protest.
Related activity but for arson cases prior To the, trump administration that playbook is out and this new playbook. Is in so we are absolutely seeing the federal government stepping in and engaging in this policing and persecution of protesters and organizers in a way that we have not. Seen before, that said there's a silver lining here is the federal government is overreaching in so many of, these cases and
many of these charges are. Being dismissed many of these charges are being DECLINED by, us attorneys and there have been several not guilty VERDICTS in la as well As in chicago as Well. As miami, and FURTHER what i think, is STRIKING and i think that this is really unheard of for criminal defense attorneys, in particular is we're actually seeing grand juries refusing to indict in.
These cases and given.
How biased grand jury, investigations go how one sided, they are to have the grand juries come back and not return an indictment really is showing that people are resisting and they are not buying the government's slogan and lines and playbook, on this and they, are, saying no we're not going to put up. With this so while on the one hand it's a whole, new landscape we're also seeing the counterpart of, people resisting and that includes in the.
Federal courts if the term grand jury is new, to you it's basically a special jury in federal criminal cases that is appointed to decide if there's enough evidence to bring the official, criminal charge the indictment against, the defendant
but they're super rigged against. The defendant basically they, always indict and often the grand jury process is just an information gathering tool for, the government especially in, movement cases people get subpoena to testify before grand jury's in a way that often seems just like a phishing expedition because whatever they say can be used, against them and only
the prosecution gets to present evidence to the. Grand jury there's a lot more to, say there but check out the show Notes and i'll link some really important conversations and resources about.
GRAND jury's i think that's all, Exactly, right joey but it isn't one hundred percent. New right What the trump administration is doing is that they are able To Police first amendment, protected, identities beliefs and associations by trying to define, those, beliefs identities and associations. As terrorists and so there's a whole apparatus for fighting terrorism that they then can, pull in draw upon resources they, can use and legal authorities that they, can exercise as long as the thing that
they're policing is something that can be. Called, terrorism well by defining all of these things, as terrorism that lets them sort of trigger all of these resources. And authorities those resources and authorities were not put in place by. This administration they were put In place post nine.
To eleven they were put in Place By.
Barack obama they were put in Place By, joe. Biden right and so this is not a problem With the. Trump administration this is a problem with the. Surveillance state this is a problem with consolidating federal police authority and making it easier and easier for the federal law enforcement apparatus to assert jurisdiction over what we would normally understand to be state level matters such as garden.
Variety protest and so the shift.
Is not one of kind as much as it is a shift in scope where we're seeing the federal, government TREATING as, i said garden variety protest conduct as though it is militant. Revolutionary, ACTION now i.
Totally agree, with that and to underscore, your point not a single law has needed to. Be passed there's been no legislation that's needed to be changed in order to effectuate these, prosecutions whatsoever let alone this.
Immigration enforcement this all.
Pre Existed the trump administrationmistration hasn't passed the.
Sing LAW so i absolutely agree.
With you i'm just saying, you're right the garden variety level of prosecutions we, haven't seen.
And it's the scale.
Of this, but again we, absolutely know, for Example the biden administration Pursued The face act against Individuals in florida regarding one of these. False clinics, you know it's not that these tools weren't. USED before i just think the scope and scale is not what.
We've, seen YEAH and i.
Totally AGREE and i think it's important to note that the fact that the law hasn't changed, is important not simply because the laws already existed to bring, these prosecutions but because the law actually, hasn't changed which Means The first amendment remains, in effect which means that a lot of, these prosecutions as you, Pointed, out joey are going nowhere because they actually can't really be sustained under the.
Current, regime yeah the scale and the aggressiveness and, THE scope i think is something we haven't really dealt, with before.
You know in terms of it being.
NOT new, i mean we know the founding of, this country and it's not a. Just SYSTEM and i think if we just also start, from that that is the system that protects property and white nationalism and violence and power, and CAPITALISM then i think we can sort of like see where these powers originated from and where the structure. Originated from and we've also seen that used against, you know radical, black activists.
Against The american. Indian movement.
You know so like a lot of these things that we're, seeing now we're tested on communities, of color, you know prior to, seeing okay, what works what, doesn't work and then bringing THIS surge i think to, our communities, YOU know i think in addition to, YOU know I think majory was saying About The, face act that is something we haven't really seen prosecutions Under The face, act before right Because The face act is actually technically to protect access to.
Abortion CLINICS and i think that one thing that.
This administration is doing is finding creative different ways to manipulate the laws that are already terrible to go after folks in a way that we haven't. Seen before like mo, was saying like so much of the work that we've done defending protesters, and movements a lot of it. Is stayed, of course, you know some has always, been federal but
a lot is. Usually state and to then see these federal not only prosecutions For The face, ACT word, i know we'll get into the material support prosecutions but also like, civil LITIGATION which i think is something we've never, not never but really we're not prepared for or dealt with as a movement before these massive civil pieces of litigation that while on the one hand are brought mostly by private Actors like, zionist actors we know that they're really
coordinated by and with the administration because then the administration has mimicked bringing these same lawsuits against these very same activists for the same causes when we know that they're, in coordination AND so i think that's also really important to know is that the, civil component, you know. The movement, of course, like criminals where we've always been the most concerned is someone liberty is on, the lines of life is on.
The line but.
Civil is also like this slow death right of time and money and just draining ORGANIZATIONS that i think is something that we've now had to.
Really grasp katskill follow, Up, question binat can you break down for people who are listening and really not in the, legal world why a civil case impacts, someone's life why civil cases against activists are really disruptive. To, movements sure there are.
Many ways so when a civil, CASE lands, i mean first you don't have the right to free counsel like you do with a. Criminal case it's not guaranteed in. The constitution you're not facing prison time, and incarceration so you're not. Guaranteed that so one you have to find either free counsel or you can pay for someone to. Defend you and when the, lawsuit lands there's so many things.
That happen there's an affirmative obligation, for you as the one who's, being sued to preserve any evidence that could be relevant to. The case that is completely antithetical to a lot of.
Movements do we don't like save documents and then turn them over to the.
Other side we're going to, you know keep our work internal and our organizing and who we. Work with and civil lawsuits really make that really difficult because you have to turn over discovery if it gets that far in, the case and you can't, you know, delete things and you can't let things get deleted luck, on signal and if, you know you can, be sanctioned and there's all these things that could happen if they find out that, that happened and then you're, subject to, you know other things like,
being deposed, being questioned by the, other side a lot things you don't want to talk about and that are really antithetical to what we what, we do and these cases can go on for years, and years and even if, you win there can, be appeals there can, you know there's there's just so much that doesn't feel like it ever ends with, civil litigation and so much where people, you know even just have moved on in, their Lives like i've moved a, different city you have a different,
job now but you're still always tied back to this. Civil case and there's no sort of like right to a speedy trial in a, civil case right that's that's for a. Criminal case so all of, this Stuff and i'm sure there's many Other things i'm not mentioning that you have to go through or that impact your life once you're being, civilly soon but a lot, of that, you know it's it's not again like things.
That we have really dealt with as a.
Movement before and, you know, really importantly people don't have the money to pay for lawyers for years and years, and years and it's really expensive to do civil litigation and. Civil defense it goes. On forever you have to do so many different pieces of discovery and, you know motions and like all of that is so much, more involved and IT really i think part of the tactic is to. Bankrupt organizations that's a big part of why these actors are bringing these.
CIVIL suits.
I just want to intervene strategically at this moment to say that Everything that Joey and bina are talking about is true and critical, and important and we need to be so alert to the way that these federal apparatuses are.
Being deployed against.
Our COMMUNITIES but i also want to say that one of the things we have seen over the last couple of YEARS that i think is so important and we have to hang on to for, dear life is that when, we fight. We win and so what we're starting to, see now, you know we just saw some of my impressive and beloved Colleagues At counity School of law are litigating a case right now in the federal Courts About
columbia university's repression of. Student activists and what we're seeing is the court coming back with these rulings that Say anti zionism is not. Hate Speech, columbia university acting at the behest of the executive makes them subject to the constraints Of The. First amendment it's potentially violative Of The first amendment to discipline students for engaging in. Speech right we're seeing people fight these, federal cases both criminal, and civil.
And Winning as, joey mentioned we're seeing grand juries declining to issue indictments or to authorize prosecutors to. Issue INDICTMENTS so i do want, to say, you know we really do see the power of communities taking on that, legal battle fighting with, you know our, community movement legal people
and meeting that challenge. Head ON and, i think as devastating and exhausting as, it is and as terrible as the consequences and the risks, REALLY are i do want to say we do see people having a lot, of courage marshaling a lot of resources and energy and.
Winning reliably.
Thank YOU and, I know joey you started talking a little bit about what we've been seeing broadly across the country and how the state has been repressing specifically anti. ICE activity i know you've been Based in chicago and particularly tuned into what's, happening there and it's been Similar, in minneapolis where it's been a lot OF eighteen usc one eleven cases, federal charges and part of what is coming up is just unpreparedness for movements to meet and
defend against these kinds. Of charges and also similar vein to THE question i, just asked why it matters for people's lives and form of movements that it's federal charges coming down instead of STATE.
Charges FINA when i transitioned from state to, federal defense my reaction, Was, like state it's always horrible just being in the criminal system. And fighting it's Very like David, And GOLIATH but i FELT like i had a more of a fighting chance in. State COURT when i got. To federal it was shocking how much worse it felt for, my clients how restricted you are in.
A state it.
Really feels like when you're doing, a trial you have the power to kind of run. The show right, of course a judge can like shoot down many motions, for experts for like for, you know doing, certain defenses but federal is so much more constrained in, my experience where federal judges want to have to so much, more POWER and I think i wasn't also just didn't appreciate how much more power federal judges had and how much more
they were willing to. Wield it BUT also i think in terms of the charges, are heavier plea barreeting and sentencing is so much harder.
And heavier you're. Very restricted even though the.
Sentencing guidelines, for instance are no, longer mandatory that's what everyone judges and prosecutors still mostly. Go by there's so many more. Mandatory minimums it's so easy to catch a federal, charge too, you know things like even just, gun possession right because a gun might have been Manufactured in texas and then Bought, in california which most people wouldn't is a,
federal offense but it can be. Charged federally just all of, THOSE factors i THINK just i realized how much harder it was in federal court for my clients to have a. Fighting chance but you know that, BEING said i don't mean to make states sound like it's this like set, of gold like, oh great and we're.
Going to do whatever we want. In state not.
AT all i FELT like i could. FIGHT more i had more leeway to fight. In state, You KNOW federal i think is a whole is a whole. Other animal that was a.
Great answer and if either of you don't have anything more pressing TO add i would turn us back to just the question of if there's anything else we wanted to talk about trends in charging across the country of anti. Ice, PROTEST well.
I know i.
JUST don't I think i want to echo Something that moways, talked About and i'm not trying to leave, it OUT but i do think the resistance this is, so AMAZING and i think that, you know essentially people are being Arrested For first, amendment activity whether it's it's VIDEO recording ICE and cbp, agents actions whether it's foul, going officers whether it's announcing their presence. With whistles we've seen, People arrested we've seen, people detain we've seen. People interrogated sometimes,
they're charged sometimes. They're NOT but i think what's striking is we've seen so many of these cases, fall apart and to, be honest But For, Prairie, land texas which is, devastating loss the federal government has lost in many of. These cases they've been able to charge or the cases have, been dismissed but even the ones that have gone.
To trial they.
Have lost and that is not SOMETHING that i think we're used to seeing in federal. Criminal, cases generally when someone's charged in federal criminal court is being and, was explaining, you know so few of the cases go to trial because so many people need to take a, plea bargain and the idea that you're going to get to go
to trial and win seems. Very slim that landscape seems to be changing, as well AND so i think what we are seeing in this moment is the people, are resisting they are continuing to do This Important first, amendment work and they are not, being intimidated they are not. Being DETERRED and, i think, you know all of you and your neighbors and your friends and Folks in minnesota have proven that, to us AND so i think we're
going to continue to see this type of work. Go on i'm not seeing this level of surges at this point Ongoing. POST minnesota i don't know if we're going to see a return to this prior to. THE election i don't know if we're going to see this If The insurrection act, Is invoked but RIGHT now i don't see this ongoing surge activity in terms of.
Immigration enforcement it's an.
Interesting point the thing you hear about federal criminal cases is like the federal government can be investigating somebody, for years so by the time that they bring, the charges they have such a strong case against them it makes it impossible to win versus what at least we've Seen in minnesota where it felt like some of these cases were being brought like pretty quickly and kind, of sloppily which is just a little bit of a different maybe
a little bit more hopeful for people, in movements even though there's still are federal judges and procedural limitations that make federal cases scarier and worse to go. Through, oftentimes now for a depressing thing that, is happening let's talk about prairieland the recent trial and guilty verdict that recently. Came down i'd love to hear how you all are thinking about this case and what it means for movements.
GOING forward i think, right now the defense just filed post. Trial briefing i've looked at some, of IT and i think there are a lot of really, strong arguments, you know for setting aside, the verdict and, you know whether or not the judge agrees with me is of course not a, foregone conclusion but there are a lot of
really strong, legal arguments and this really. Isn't over there's so much post trial and post, conviction relief so many appeals that remained to, be done and so much support that can, be offered and so much solidarity that can.
BE offered i think that this case.
Was unusual it was a departure from what we would typically see in that so many people got pulled into this prosecution under sort of a, conspiracy, theory right a theory that all of the people at what was a really quotitian sort of noise demo in front OF a ic detention facility somehow spontaneously became a conspiracy to do.
SERIOUS violence i think this is a little bit like the federal government trying to take a second bite at the apple that they took a run At after trump's first inauguration when they tried to prosecute like almost three hundred people for conspiracy on the basis that they were all dressed in black block and in this environment politically and in that Jurisdiction, in texas it seems like that
theory had legs in a way that it DIDN'T. In dc so one of the things that happened in the j twenty case was that the prosecution withheld a bunch of, exculpatory evidence and based ON some foya disclosures that a, journalist obtained it looks like actually a very similar thing may have happened Here With, prairie land where the prosecution may have withheld evidence that would be favorable to.
The defense and That's called.
Brady material based On A supreme court case about having to turn over information and evidence that would tend to undermine the prosecution or that would be favorable to someone facing. Criminal charges all of that kind, of information if it's in the custody or control of, law enforcement has to be disclosed to the defendants and to. Defense counsel and it appears that there is some material that would fit that bill that was not turned over to the prairieland
defendants or. Their attorneys and so you know that as well as an extremely important, argument against, you know letting this, conviction stand and the, trial itself there were just a lot. Of irregularities not only was this an, unusual prosecution but it was characterized. By irregularities very, early on the judge declared a mistrial on the basis OF a t shirt that one of the defense attorneys was. Wearing right there
seemed to be a lot of conflict among. The jurors there were all kinds of inconsistent statements among the witnesses for.
The.
Prosecution right so there's all kinds of things that happen during this trial that do give me a certain amount of Hope That prairie land is the exception and not. The rule, YOU know i think the government is, boundary Testing but i'm not convinced that they're going to find that this is an effective approach to prosecuting, protest although OF course i want to be, very clear it's been devastating for.
THIS community i hear that there's some uncertainty about the long term impacts, Of this and with that, in mind is there anything any of you just want to add what you think movements should be paying attention to here. Going, forward also it's connection to the expansion of the fundamentally racist or on terror, legal regime and it's turn towards activist communities in.
NEW ways i can jump in, And start i'm really glad you brought up the War on terror as part of the history.
Of this and, YOU know I think i mentioned.
Previously a lot of these tactics that, we see like we've, all said are, not new and much of it has been tested on communities, of color the way that war weapons are tested on the battlefield and then brought to our domestic police, forces here same thing, with, Tactics right and so the war on terror like primarily Against the muslim community In the muslim world a lot Of non arab Countries like Afghanistan, and pakistan, you know, of course is a, racist endeavor but it does sort of like
give us a picture of the larger sort of like
colonial project of what, you know what. We're FACING but i think there's also just a lot then that we can take from history and take to our movements and LEARNED from, i think while, it's DEVASTATING and i AGREE with moa Think the prairie, line conviction there's a lot of bases, for appeal including being prohibited from putting on a self defense argument or friends of, OTHERS argument i think we can learn a lot from the way that our movements were targeted in, this, way right where like,
you know a lot of it was from text messages, in SIGNAL and i think it's just like it's also a really important thing To note while signals are very important app, to communicate it's, not, bulletproof right and it's only as secure as you, Make it and it is still something that's, in writing AND so I think i always try to remind, folks like if you can open your phone right now and you can see your, signal messages someone else, can't. Do RIGHT so i think a
lot of people are under the impression that is. Completely BULLETPROOF and i think it's also calls the, question, of like, you know how, we organize and also like does everything we do need to.
Go and text?
Or writing, you know is there more value to like actually talking, with people because a lot of things that were SAID casually i think in writing look much worse and much more serious than if you would just have a conversation talking, ideas through which again is an elder idea in the nineties and we didn't have.
CELL phones i want to kind of piggyback on some thing you started, to say which is you said, these tactics these strategies have been tested on communities, of COLOR and i think the significance of, that, statement like we can't overestimate how important it is to, understand that and,
you know you can watch it happening in. REAL time, i mean obviously we've seen this kind of state repression right since the days of, like, abolitionists right but we saw it really becoming very salient During the nixon administration, and thereafter and, you Know The Black panther Party And
Black liberation army were subjected. To this black communities were then subjected, to This And puerto rican independence communities were subjected, to this and you can see it all the way through, the eighties even with like the so called, gang legislation right targeting of quote.
Gang activity when you say these communities have been subjected, to this what do? You mean what's?
The, this sorry have been subjected to have been targeted and surveiled and criminalized by the state for what we would understand To Be first amendment, protected, identities, beliefs associations, and, Activities right and so people have been targeted for surveillance and criminalization on the basis of their, political beliefs on the basis of their associations, and activities in a way that we now see being recuperated against more explicitly political.
Protest movements and we saw this During The no dapple Movement At, standing rock we saw the revival of a federal charge called.
CIVIL disorder i.
Think the last time it had been used had been during the Standoff at wounded me in nineteen.
Seventy, four right.
It was like a federal charge that seems like it was only used against people struggling for. Indigenous sovereignty and then we saw it being used again During the floyd uprisings in, twenty twenty and that was the first time we saw it really being used against people who were not explicitly involved in struggles for.
Indigenous sovereignty to give like, an example, you know in terms of like what strategies are tested On the muslim community or communities. Of color the case that a lot of us within the movement at least are still haunted by is Against The Holy land foundation And The Holy, land, Five right and it's shocking now to realize how many people outside of our circles don't actually really know about
that case or even like what material. SUPPORT is i think only when it became not much bigger and being weaponized in more creative ways are people sort.
Of realizing but, you know back for back.
In the day When The Holy land foundation and founders were targeted and, then convicted and their convictions were upheld for just raising money for families in. A gaza it was so devastating and crushing to communities, into organizing but it really DIDN'T get i think the broad attention that it, should have right or this other targeting of like we're using informants In the muslim community just going back, through
HISTORY and i think we can learn from. Them NOW but, i think, you know if we had had more attention on those cases than what, you know communities of color were, GOING through i think there's a lot we can learn from or could have organized. Stronger against having now seen what is doing to communities, OF.
Color i think if there's a lesson for us to learn from this is that, you know post nine, to eleven there was this massive Persecution of muslim communities and we really saw this apparatus of the material support for terrorism being used against individuals and as, you say being
not often in isolation. Without support and part of that's because when you get charged with material support of, you know not only are you facing massive criminal, like sentencing but you know your organization is being, Taken down you're getting debateked you cannot you know be able to hold, financial funds and what happens is people don't want to get ensnared in that. Criminal prosecution that often people don't
come out and make those. Solidarity statements you become. Essentially RADIOACTIVE and, i think, you Know what i'm hopeful is that we can find new ways to resist this material support for, terrorism apparatus which is being wielded in WAYS that i think are unjust and unfair and illegal.
And WRONG and i hope.
There's ways that we can think about how we're going to, counter that whether it's In The, Prairie land texas case or in other cases. AS well i think we need to get back to the roots of, that law and we need to think about really who's, it serving who's, it protecting and who is, it destroying so that we can really rectify the harms that have come.
From it.
Material support for terrorism chargers are not the only uncommon charges for seeing being brought against anti ice protesters Here. In minneapolis we've also seen the use Of The face act and federal threat and cyber. Stocking charges just, to note the use Of The face act is Specifically Against Black lives matter protesters here who staged a protest in, a CHURCH and i don't think expected to have this random act that nobody knew existed come out and now
they're facing super. Serious charges i'd love just for listeners to understand a little bit what these. Charges are if there's other unusual charges you've seen around, the country what do people actually need to understand? About them people who are going out. To protest how much is it important to know about these different things that can.
Pop up So The.
Face act is a piece of legislation that initially was being pushed for by reproductive, justice groups and it was supposed to criminalize people interfering with folks who were attempting to access reproductive health care because at the time that it was being, lobbied for there was a pretty active, pro life, you know anti choice movement that was physically making it difficult for people who are seeking reproductive healthcare
to gain access. To clinics and at, the time people who work in criminal defense and who work with criminalized populations, Were, like hey this legislation is going to be mobilized against other kinds, of protesters and it's probably going to be primarily dangerous to people who are perceived as antagonistic to, State.
Interests and what do?
You know that is what has happened because one of, the things one of the concessions that was made in order to get that piece of, legislation passed, was that in addition to criminalizing obstructing access to reproductive, health clinics it also criminalized obstructing access to so called places of worship for specifically people who are attempting to access those
places in order to Engage In first amendment protected. Religious expression so now one of the things we're seeing is people using their churches or their synagogues to do things like have political meetings that are not particularly, religious meetings or to do things like sell real Estate in palestine to which they do not have title and cannot.
Lawfully sell and then when.
People show up to protest, those activities the federal government tries to charge them with violations Of The face act.
In like the. Simplest way what do people need? To, know like there's one outcome here that, everyone's like oh, MY god i didn't know the protesting in a church could get me federal charges for like handing out some flyers and using. A megaphone what ELSE don't? I know about, other risks the random acts that can. Come up how do you talk to people about that who are thinking about. Taking, ACTION yeah.
I think that that's, the again the changing landscape here and seeing the exponential rise of. FEDERAL charges i think that when organizers are thinking about the actions, THEY'RE pursuing i think they need to talk to attorneys and legal workers and others who have both an understanding of what their local laws and state, laws are but what the federal laws are. As well, AND again i think that's just a different changing of.
THE landscape i do want, to say.
You know there's a lot of important organizing that it has happened in churches and synagogues, and TEMPLES and i don't want to, Discount THAT but i do also want TO say i think again we're seeing a misuse of, this law.
Particularly The, face act and, it's very.
Very scary but, YOU know i think that there are some really incredible lawyers and Organizers in MINNESOTA who i think are fears and who are going to fight this to, the END and i have hoped that they will come. Out, unscathed YEAH.
And i do want to clarify it isn't just protesting at. A church they have to be able to allege that people were by force or threat, of force or by, physical obstruction, intentionally, injuring intimidating in interfear with people who are trying to get healthcare or people who are trying. To worship so it isn't simply having a protest at
a place. Of worship That Remains first amendment. PROTECTED behavior i think in addition With The, face act it has a. Civil component so again like, material support it also has a, civil component and many people are getting civilly sued and so a lot Of these zionist groups have also brought suits based On The face act for people protesting the illegal Sale of palestinian land inside a synagogue and that's
a breach international law and so many. Other crimes and just also to think of just the disgusting use of, this law and you think of sort of the historical targeting of black churches and like still to, this day
like it's just such a slap in. The face, but REGARDLESS but i think also alive to your, question, about yeah like a lot of this can catch people off CARD like i didn't what, YOU know i, didn't know and even, you know even if, they know they really, can't prove, you know access that they might still try to either sue you or. PROSECUTE you i think the thing is like none of us are ever going to know all the laws that are on the books and
the way that they might creatively try to. Use, them so, YOU know i don't want people to get paralynes into not doing anything because it's, it is, you. Know scary there's just like you, don't know, you know what what laws are out there that can, be used you know
in some way now you know a new way. Against YOU but i Think what joey and mo both have said is right about connecting to lawyers and, legal workers just being tight on, our organizing knowing what our, rights are and knowing when you what to.
Do when you encounter, law enforcement which is nothing and. Say nothing, You know like all OF that i think is, like hopefully like universally at least like minimizes the harm that can happen.
To you it's, not bulletproof right as, we know it's not meant.
To BE but, i, think like, YOU know i don't want folks to like be like AND now i DON'T, know x like this other random thing, you know could be brought, against me and that may happen and continue, to happen but that's what we, all do right like sort of like with this message, of hope is that what we do is, we fight and like we, have fought like, State repression like our answers, have thought, State repression we're not going. To stop they're going to, keep
adapting and so. Are we this resistance is not going, to stop even if we have to figure out a new way to resist based on what.
Comes next to ask, you all as a final question with your repression forecasting hats on anything you want to add about how movements can prepare to meet this repression that is already happening and that which is.
TO come i can't see, the FUTURE as i tell my clients, EVERY day i can't see.
THE future i am but, a lawyer not.
A WIZARD what i can tell you is we know a lot about what the state has done in, the past and we have a lot of good models to. Look to we have a rich ancestry of resistance and of, movement lawyering of movement lawyers who know how to work in community with people who are doing the. Heavy lifting we have made it this Far as, Bina said we're
just going to continue. To FIGHT and i do hold out a lot, of hope NOT because i have any faith in the law itself or believe that justice is on the table in, our courts but because we are actually really good, at solidarity and because we have over a century of evidence that solidarity is not just good for, our communities it's.
Legally effective. That's it don't talk.
TO cops i might go with the cheesy answer, ROUND that i think what communities and movements can do to prepare is a lot, of this right is like coming together, and strategizing especially amongst, the lawyers so uplifting what mo said is like showing solidarity with communities and lawyers.
Showing UP but i, think also And like Joey.
And moly really model this for me as well as lawyers showing up with each other and like, working together because it is a lonely fight a lot of times being a lawyer when you're not in a circle of solidarity or folks of radical politics or who like also believe in including each other, in fighting, you know and doing, this work and that is always going to be a, losing fight right if you're doing it. By yourself you're not doing it with each other and with the communities
and with other. Radical lawyers that's not what, we, Do right that's also like not the point of. This work it's like one sole lawyer to fight it.
And win it's.
About like us doing, it collectively and that's the way that. We win and, you know just uplifting like, You three like just even having this Conversation and Joey and mo for all the work that you do and the work that you. Do inclusively, you know that like gives me HOPE because I know i've had like many.
Every, day look i just SIT and i feel. Like alone, i'm like.
Oh, My GOD like i have to first with the method. OF hope i have to find some way to. Keep going it's, really hard And sometimes i'm JUST like i. Don't know and then and then we have these conversations and like, all, right yeah like we have those moments we get, you know like we, feel defeated but like we have, each other, you know and like our movements didn't come, this far, you know our ancestors didn't come this far for us to.
Give, Up, NOW yeah.
I think i would just echo What both bina and mo. HAVE said, i, mean, obviously black indigenous and other communities of color have faced fascism and authoritarianism before and have resisted. And survived this is not the first time in this country we've, seen this and it's likely not.
Going to be.
The LAST but i, THINK, again i, YOU know i would, say that, you Know As marian, kama says, you know hope is, a discipline and we have to keep pouring into hope and we can't have to.
Keep RESISTING so i do have a lot.
Of HOPE and I and I and i feel like AGAIN like i want to look at what the organiz have done and how far, we've come even in terms of this.
Latest administration, YOU.
Know i would say, last year after the onset of, THIS administration i don't think we were seeing a lot, of resistance not a lot of, Public resistance and instead we were seeing law firms cave and deciding to create agreements with. The administration we are seeing educational, institutions come, you know cave and come up with a lot. Of agreements but what we did see is we saw the.
People resisting and that HAPPENED in la and that Happened, in chicago and that certainly Happened in Minneapolis And saint Paul. And MINNESOTA so i, take HEART and i think what we need to continue to think about doing is how people are going to do the mutual aid work and the.
CARE work i think we need to continue to do the know your rights and know your. Risks work.
THAT'S essential i think a big thing we need to continue to think about Is The insurrection act and getting information out About The, insurrection act which may be invoked prior to. This election, YOU know i think that the ongoing work that people have been, doing again it's about the people and the power of the people that have
gotten us. This far but even if we look at, what happened, you know this past week and eight million people coming out to protest, and resist those numbers didn't exist over a, Year ago.
AND so i feel like the resistance.
Is happening people are coming together and despite, INSTITUTIONAL failures i think the movement has, grown SIGNIFICANTLY and i think we have to even look at the last year and a half to see how far. We've come AND so i have hope that we'll go, even FURTHER and i
hope that we're not returning to the. Status quo and in fact we are actually dreaming the world we want to, live in and that we are going to fight for the world we want to, live in and that this is an opportunity for us to let things go and for us to create A.
New well thank you all for, those hopeful hope full forecasting. Advice answers you don't always get, that twist which is, really LOVELY and i feel like it's been something that's on my mind a lot Here. In minnesota that's sometimes when things are the worst and you're of the closest to violence. And terror it's also when you see how powerful people are and how powerful resistance.
CAN be, i mean these are long fights and these are. Long, HAULS yeah i think that's.
Kind of the, lesson is, you know not to get all peer k, a vote but you are not obligated to finish.
The work but neither are you free to. Abandon it like these are.
Long, fights yeah they are fights that we don't. Win alone it's not possible or desirable to win these.
Fights, Alone right.
THEY'RE generational i mean they last. Multiple generations so you know this like the ever receding horizon of. Real, democracy right there's no forecast that could even be adequate because it's gonna go on for. So LONG but i think the advice is always, the, same right just don't.
Toxic, cups yeah what she said is generally and you're not free to just abandon.
The work mom IS.
Like i would like write that on a wall SOMEWHERE because i think things people jump, In right it's, like okay, this hot let's. Do it but like once it's not a hot, new thing, you know people kind of move on to the next say it's, like, No none that's when we need folks to stick in it and. You CAN'T and i think that's just a really important, like lesson.
Send me your.
Mailing address i'm gonna send You a i'm gonna send you.
A poster or can you? CROCHET it i know you. Can crochet you gotta with the flowers. And, everything yeah thank you all. So much you guys.
ARE awesome i love. You guys it's.
SO great i feel like got a, Therapy session, LIKE oh i feel so much, better off.
But like what, we're doing like where, we are AND like i.
HAVE hope.
I med a cake one of.
You found thank you for listening to Outlaw on it could. Happen here if you liked, the episode check out The show outlaw wherever you get your podcasts, and, rate review And follow outlaw Pod on Instagram And blue sky for anti, repression updates news and stories that you might want. To know From, the North, from south.
From everywhere.
This is It could. Happen Here, executive disorder our weekly newscast covering what's happening In The, white house the, crumbling world and what it means.
For You I'm.
Garrison davis today and Joined By, James Stout, mia Wong And. Robert evans this episode recovering the Week of may Twentieth to may. Twenty, seventh james some small widow idy bitty news items, To.
Start yeah talk about the, little things and then we talk about some things in. More Detail the trump administration has lifted a cap on refugee admissions by. Ten thousand this sounds like good news you realize it is to allow More White south africans to seek refuge In The united States.
Of america.
Great stuff hey. THIS country i Found The federal. Register thing it's still, the documents still it, up THERE but i will link to the place where the document will probably Be.
The dutch will never.
Be Forgiven The united states has also continued its campaign of strikes In. The pacific the most recent one left two survivors along with one man who.
Has Killed.
So there's guardian published a piece a while ago about what happened to some survivors who were taken BY the us. Military BOAT the us military boarded, their vessel stole their food, and beer and then Transports Them, twelve salvador where they were questioned and then released to immigration orites and eventually. Sent, HOME basically i guess effectively deported for Illegally Entering el salvador after they were brought there BY the us By The. United,
states yeah AFTER the. Us, bomber yeah so we don't know what happened to these. TWO people I Guess coast guide activated so to rescue after. The strike so hopefully they. Found them it's better than them drowning. Out There their Department Of homeland security is auto extending the temporary protected Status, for lebanon not because they affirmatively chose to, do so but because they failed to renewer terminate it, in time so.
Auto Extended Mark, wayne MULLIN the, dhs secretary has claimed That the Department of Home and security is drawing up plans to not process incoming international flights in. Sanctuary.
Cities, what yeah this is ahead Of The, world, Cup, right yes.
So let's play a.
Little clip we are currently which were not, initiate yet but we're currently drawing up plans, to, say listen these sanctuary cities where the local radical left democrats aren't allowing us to do our job and enforce, federal laws then we shouldn't be processing international flights into their into their. Cities either because they don't want us to, enforce immigration but they want us to process immigration at. Their facilities nothing about that makes sense.
To me the line, HE'S drawing i GUESS what i want to guess at is that he's claiming that in places where police WON'T support ice by removing protesters from the STREETS outside, ice Facilities The united states is not going to allow international travelers to enter at airports in. Those cities there's a lot to break. Down There like i'm not really going to because it suffice it to say that this would cause.
Absolute chaos that's not going, to happen because that's going to heavily. Disrupt capital that's that's just that's just.
Not, happen yeah it's not really possible for this. To, work like it's not that they can divert to non, woke, airports right that's not how air.
Travel works is?
This silly but, It's Interesting like mullin has been a bit less kind of crazy and he's like posting. His, policy yeah but maybe he was just getting.
WARMED up i Mean, he's yeah he obviously does not understand who his drew. Master is if he actually thinks that this is something that.
Can, happen YEAH he i don't know if he.
Does what he's just Talking To fox news and yeah said what He Thought fox news wanted. To hear mullin was talking about this in response to a large and growing Protest At, delaney hall which is a private detention Facility, In Newark, new jersey where three hundred detainees have been on hunger strike Since. Last friday mullin has versusly claimed that they chose to do This Some Memorial, day friday, of Course Not, memorial day and that they want their.
Ethnic food people in detention are entitled to religiously, appropriate food but that's not what's, happening, here right people are on hunger strike because of the conditions in. The Facility New Jersey Senator, andy kim who's been there for a
while with protesters that he got pepper balled and. Tear gast he entered the facility to, inspect it and he made a thread on egg, dot com the, everything website where he detailed horrible, abuses inside including a woman who had been denied obg wayncare and a pregnant woman who had miscarried inside. THE facility dhs has claimed in response, that quote, IN fact ice has highed detention standards IN
most us prisons that HOLD actual. Us citizens that's an incredible thing to say when someone has just detailed the fact that people are having un accompanied miscarriages in your facility and, being, like well we do worse Things to. Americans here there are really a lot of. Layers There, on monday one of the leaders of the hunger strike
was transferred out of the Facility in newark to. Another, facility right it's not uncommon for people to be moved around in immigration detention for, various reasons right to include.
In, this case.
They're, ORGANIZING finally thepcw has published documents detailing a large hall of undeclared chemical weapons that it Found.
In syria what IS the moszpw for those who may not be, Acronym aware.
It's the organization For the Prohibition Of. Chemical weapons why this. Is, interesting firstly there has been open source reporting detailing The use biaside of chemical weapons against his own population, for years and this. Confirms, that secondly there is a particularly disgusting faction of the left In The united states and elsewhere which has spent years denying that this is, the case spent years effectively running cover FOR a sad murdering
little children with. Chemical weapons we had very good evidence that this was. Happening before we now have incontrovertible proof That as sad have the ability to do this and did. Do this we already know that he, did it but it should really make you question the legitimacy of any media source that continues or ever has denied THAT a
sad used, chemical weapons or indeed any politician or. Political actor there's no instance in which it's okay to use chemical weapons, against, civilians period and anyone apologizing, for that in, my opinion it is.
Pretty despicable in, other news about two, WEEKS Ago abc news nuked the five thirty, eight archive scrubbing all the articles with links now redirecting TO The abc. Politics homepage as annoying as some of the five thirty eight type people, can be this is a bad removal of like documented informations going all the way back to two thousand. And
eight it is UNFORTUNATE that abc has. Done this there still is third party archives of these articles that you, can find but it will make actually referencing information held or previously held on five thirty eight much more difficult.
Going, forward YEAH and i also just want to say this is a continuous problem with storing information On, the internet which, Is, that yeah information On the internet is. Incredibly ephemeral it is very easy for entire people's lives work to simply be deleted because a parent company decided to make. A move, and yeah there's a bunch of people who do good work on, digital preservation but all of the work that we produce online is significantly more ephemeral than we tend to.
Think.
About, yeah Yeah As jamie loftus said in her last regular podcast that she did, for us this is a future piece of, lost, media right which is true of almost everything anyone puts up On, the.
Internet and.
There are groups of people who have worked over the years to try and, mitigate that Including The internet archive and The Way, back machine and they are currently, under attack as is from Within The, wikipedia foundation as we'll talk, About later, but, like yeah it's the only way to make this stuff not be aphemeral and to actually like keep a permanent archive of culture is to support the people.
Doing that and the people doing that are never going to be entirely, cool with, for example the people who, make movies the people who put, out newspapers and there's an extent to which they just need the backing of us and of our government to say you can't stop them from doing that because it's in the best needs of the, human race and.
That's not going to happen right.
Now anyway, Last Weekend fox news reported that socialist Live Streamer hassan piker and the leader of the Activist Organization code pink have been subpoena by the federal government as a part of an investigation into a humanitarian aid Trip to cuba with a bunch of left wing activists and Influencers. Last march fox claimed this investigation is part of a quote broader dragnet inveloping as many As forty american citizens
who Joined the marxist Convoy to. Havana unquote after Returning from cuba two, months AGO twenty us citizens were briefly detained and interrogated at, the border and eighteen of them had their phones and other devices SEIZED by cbp agents
At The Miami INTERNATIONAL. Airport yep fox supported that these new subpoenas Show that piker is now caught in a quote federal inquiry into whether activists who Traveled to Cuba in MARCH violated us sanctioned laws, through, financing coordination or delivery of Goods, to cuba including potential Contacts with cuban government personnel or entities on, the island also claiming that this investigation is part of a quote broader effort by Officials, At,
treasury State And justice departments to curb malign foreign influence operations Inside The united. States Unquote hassan piker has said that he learned about the Subpoena through fox's, media reporting and he has not yet been contacted by. The government fox referred to these subpoenas as quote unquote, Administrative subpoenas and it turns Out Neither hassan Piker Nor code pink have actually been subpoenaed by. The government they've they've not
actually been served by the. Federal government. Oh Boy, on tuesday the Leader Of code Pink Told ryan grimm that she received an email From The Treasury department's Office Of Foreign assets control requesting information about the Trip, to cuba suggesting that there is some, probe here but it's not technically, a subpoena and there's still no indication Yet If hassan piker has received a similar request.
For information, and like this.
Is bad it's not unusual if you go to a Place like Cuba that, american citizens they're certainly not supposed. To trades it too directly to be stopped in questions of the way to, the country and it's now not unusual for devices to.
Be taken none of this.
Is good like the fact that they could just take your shit at the border. Remains bad, but Yeah as garrison, has said, right now this is.
Not what a lot of initial reporting made it. Look Like.
Quite, Yeah no, if anything It seems fox is trying to, encourage this this broader drag net and manufacturer consent for there being subpoenas for people on this humanitarian age and.
Influencer, Trip, yeah james Speaking.
Of, Cuba yeah so let's talk a little bit about people seeking to become permanent residents Of The, united states and we'll get To the cuba tie in a. Minute here SO a uscis policy memorandum has a vice uscif's officers that MOST non us citizens is seeking to adjust their status will now have to LEAVE the usa to.
Do so what it's adjusting adjusting generally when somebody who is here on a non immigrant visa or on another immigration status are just to become a, permanent resident right and previously they could do that Inside The, united states or they could go to a consulate and they could apply for a green kind of a consulate Outside The.
United states now they're, saying that aside from cases of what they are calling, extraordinary discretion they're going to make people leave and apply from Outside The.
United states that.
Is bad what is worse is the way that this overlaps with their. Existing, policies right people already applying facing. Huge delays i've everbotten on, that before and now new applicants and possibly people who are halfway through their process will have. To leave that will often mean spouses leaving their spouse and their citizen children if they have them for an unknown amount. Of, time right this could take you very realistic to expect this to. Take years this
dovetails with existing visa bands on seventy. Five countries what that means is that people from many of these countries cannot obtain any. Immigrant visas there are some very small exceptions to these. Visa bands in the case of the twenty countries which are on a, complete band there are exceptions for athletes Attending The world cup Or, the olympics. For, Example, right So, like iran it's one of. Those Countries the
iranian team can Attend The. World cup they're actually Staying, in tijuana but crossing the border to come and do. Their matches for, everyone, else though if you leave and then you have to come back to collect a, green card re enter on an, immigrant visa then you get your.
Green.
Card right if you are prohibited from having an immigrant visa because you are a citizen of, these countries then you cannot re enter and thus you cannot get your. Green card and thus this is a de facto bar to people from those travel bank countries getting a green card In The united, states now which is. VERY bad i also noticed that there is not an EXEMPTION that i can see For The Cuban adjustment. Act Here The Cuban adjustment act is a special exploited Pathway for cubans
that allows them to adjust a legal permanent. Residence status it used to be, two years now it's. A year this is particularly interesting GIVEN the usa is talking so much about how terrible things Are, in cuba but also saying if you've made it here and you're safe and you feel safer and you want, to stay. You can't you have to go Back to cuba AND apply i guess it. To adjust it seems, very hypocritical but there's.
Nothing.
New YEAH so i spoke to a couple of folks who would have expertise, in THIS and i don't have their permission to sign, their name. So won't there isn't a consulate Option for cubans seeking. To adjust they can't do it outside of the country And The cuban adjustment they have to do it. The countries they think that this would entirely not, Include them but like, everything else it's a little bit unclear and we.
Will, FIND out.
I guess, LAST month uscis also removed categorical deferred ACTION for. SIJS individuals sijs is special immigrant. Juvenile status it's granted to people IN the us who are Inside The united states without status who have been subject, to, abuse abandonment or neglect as found by. A Court the trump administration has already deported many of these, young people but this policy memo formally removed categorical, deferred enforcement Which of biden
admin began doing in twenty. Twenty, two essentially some people will be told on receiving sijas that they would be safe from deportation and they could receive a. Work permit deferred enforcement is the same thing that PEOPLE under dhaka have right commonly referred to, as dreamers that has now.
Been removed PEOPLE.
With sijs kind of just to BEING the SIGs offers a pathway to permanent residency that now these people will evidently have to live in fear right up until they are able to. Become citizens if they're able to, become, Citizens, jess yeah like these are some of the most unfortunate
people on. The planet like people who get sijs use of it has increased for, unaccompanied miners right that or children, should say people who have come across in the last maybe since twenty, eighteen ish but still it's people who.
Have often gone to really.
Terrible things the, justification Cited and i'm quoting from the memo here is. That quote the criminality gangs and program. Integrity Concerns In Special Immigrant Juvenile petitions report reviewed over three hundred THOUSAND aliens sija petitions filed from the beginning of fiscal year twenty Thirteen through february twenty. Twenty five key findings included eight hundred and fifty three known or suspected gang members WHO filed, sija petitions most receiving approval
of a SIX. Hundred ms thirteen gang MEMBERS filed, sij petitions and more than five hundred. Were approved, among them at least seventy had been charged with gang related, federal racketeering, conspiracy offenses and many other charges violent crimes In The, united states including murderer. Sex OFFENSES additional soja petition approvals included more than one hundred known or suspected members Of The. Eighteenth gang at least three Trend de ragua gang members
and dozens Of nor tenos. Gang members if you go back and look at, those numbers three hundred, THOUSAND petitions i see. Seventy, charges yeah. That's absurd that is a fraction of a.
Single percent if they reviewed three, Hundred thousand even if this like eight hundred and fifty number, it's correct is, completely correct which is not which that's like less than one third of. A, percent.
Yeah exactly it is a.
Minuscule fraction if every single person who, they suspect and given what we've seen, about suspicion that could be as much as having, a, Tattoo.
Right, yeah yeah it's.
Ludicrous to join one up with the other, and, say therefore all of these, young people many of whom have gone through horrific things now will have.
To live in.
Fear again that policy memo came Out. IN april i found IT when i was looking through the policy memos ON the, uscis WEBSITE and i haven't seen any other reporting. On It maybe i've just, missed it but it's certainly something that people should be. AWARE of i want to do a scripted Series on sijas people for, understandable reasons not all of them want to get up in the media.
Right, now yeah in terms of all the immigration changes that, have happened this collection of stuff is like some of the Worst that.
I've heard you. Talk, about yeah it's.
Really bad like they STARTED deporting, sijs people and even even immigration lawyers who have been, like that This second trump administration is going to be. Really bad The second trump administration is. Really bad people did not expect them to begin going after, these people and they did when they. Were detaining another thing they've claimed is that like some of them are over, twenty one, over eighteen because they can still apply it to twenty.
One.
Jurisdictions, Right, again sure that doesn't mean that they haven't been through, Terrible things like many many twenty one year Olds in america rely on their parents. For things these people often don't have their parents or have been some cases been abused by or abandoned by, their parents and then sending them back to a place where they may be, in danger where they may not. Be, Safe right there is no moral ethical justification.
For, this really it's. Really bad it's. Really, horrible yeah pure.
Undiluted, Violence yeah, and likewise we can very clearly see if we look at the list of travel boud countries is going to be a bar and people from a large number of countries where the majority of the population is not white getting citizenship and legal public residence states In The united states rights something that has very clearly been a motivating factor of policy for a. Long, time, so yeah more shit news from me. About immigration talking of,
shit news we have to pivot. To advertisements we.
And.
We're back, oh boy well that's all been. Very depressing you know what's Not. Depressing catholicism, oh oh and, that too too great taste great together to make us.
All happy.
Oh man this week the same work that we're, Recording This pope leo the fourteenth issued An Encyclical, magnifica humanitas that warned against equating machine intelligence with. Human intelligence, he declared we must avoid the misconception of equating this type of intelligence with that of. Human beings these systems merely imitate certain functions of. Human intelligence this has, BEEN seen i think by most critics of artificial intelligence as a pretty.
Good encyclical it is. Very long it's well over one, hundred pages so this is not like a. Quick read you should think about this as like going in and reading. A book it's a really. Interesting document among, other Things the Pope. Quotes Jr or tolkien at, one, point yeah
which is a nice. Little bit he also makes a lot of references to mathematics and specifically like kind of comparing The way catholicism thinks about divinity And The holy spirit and all that to certain kind of like, geometric shapes because apparently he was a. MATH major i did not, know this but it comes through in the writing. OF this i would say my overall impression, is, like Oh the pope has a lot more understanding of like technical.
STUFF than i thought he was going. To have This isn't this is.
Not like a bad thing from a like a basic understanding of how the technology. Works, standpoint obviously a lot of this is based Around the pope's beliefs about the like what humanity is and the divinity within, human umanity
which is not something that. Everybody BELIEVES but i also have found an awful lot of atheists and just kind of like non religious people who have been sharing this because while they don't, agree, that like, you know human beings are sacred because of the Sacrifice Of jesus christ necessarily, or whatever or that we were Made. By god they agree with the fact that there's something special about humanity that is not being recreated by, these llmms And so
i've seen a lot of like praise as a result. Of, That however i've also SEEN what i thought were pretty. Salient critiques and the number one critique here is that this encyclical was released at an event that was kind of co launched with People, from anthropic And the vatican Worked with anthropic for this release and are in general kind of partnering maybe the, wrong term but working alongside them to try and have a dialogue about the FUTURE
of ai and what it should and. Shouldn't do, and specifically one Thing That pope leo talked a lot about was the need to demilitarize or disarm, artificial intelligence as in remove it from use in like, defense industries and certainly make sure that it's not making the call to actually.
Kill people and that's Something that anthropic has also took us, stand on insomuch as that now THAT the us government is trying to remove any partnership it Has.
With, nthropic, yes yes they at least were openly.
Against that now that Doesn't mean anthropics A company i like or a company that everybody. Should like they still played your eyes huge millions, of people basically anyone who's ever written. A book there's a lot of, illegal things objectively Illegal things, anthropic did and that's why there are
numerous lawsuits against. Them NOW and i think it is in fact a problem that One of anthropics, Co Founders, chris ola was invited to speak at this event In, the vatican because one of the first things he did after Thanking the vatican And The catholic church And the pope for having, him there is kind of disagree with What the pope had said that these systems merely imitate
certain functions of. Human Intelligence because ola said that These systems i'm not quote from an article In the register Here By thomas CLAPBURN quote, ai systems, he said are not the cold calculating robots we. Were promised they are made, from us from, our words and As The holy, father observes they remain an important way is mysterious to those of us who.
Train them this IS what i have an. Issue, with no.
They're not they're mysterious me in the same sense that like if you make a car that had always just been a simple. Ice engine if you make that a hybrid and you throw like a computer screen and a bunch of shit, in it you're gonna have a bunch of problems with, your car as like a manufacturer that you you didn't expect to have because you've.
Added, complexity right.
But we can't predict every single outcome of, machine learning, right yeah but but but the way the aropic guy, is using, you know basic basic facts about like machine learning and, neural networks but framing them in a way to.
These, are mysterious like the human brain, is mysterious, and, no, yes yeah but but it's also, like course you can't predict what the output is your.
Entire processes you're just multiplying matrices against each other over and over again and then checking to see if the output of the random matricey multiplication you've done is what, You.
Want, like yeah.
No shit the dumb person comparison might BE if i were to buy an empty HOUSE and i were to fill that house with random shit for, thirty years for so Long that i've Forgotten what i've put in, the house AND then i sent you into the house to grab something at random. FROM it i might be totally surprised by what you. Bring out that doesn't mean anything mysterious or sacred. Has occurred it Just means i've.
Forgotten, all this.
You.
Know. Yeah yeah or it's like it's like if you make a machine that just like spits out a, random, output yes you don't know what it's going, to, be, like.
Yes this is this is what you, have.
Done exactly a random output when it was been trained on the corpus of like.
Human. Knowledge.
Right yeah and one of the THINGS that i find very frustrating Is that olah made the STATEMENT that ai systems are made from us and from, our, Words right.
And he said that in a way as to like and.
That's good it, means, that like we all are a part of this and it's a part, of us and so there's humanity. In, it, no, NO no ai isn't like made from. Our words they stole our words that are consent in order to monetize them.
For themselves. That's different that's.
Real, different yeah in the same way that back in the DAY when i, begun teaching people would plagiarize by copying pasting things. From, books yeah those are also made by. People's words it doesn't make, them, sacred yeah makes. Them, stolen now all our lists in here three questions for discernment and he phrases, is LIKE and i Hope The catholic church can like help us figure out how we should move forward with. These things these are the big QUESTIONS.
BEHIND ai i want to quote again for that piece In the register because the author, Of, that clappert has a funny, Bit here, oh la how can we ensure the GAINS of ai are? Shared globally we do not have a mechanism. For this we have many what is. CALLED taxes i know there is litigation already. On going we also Have The french revolution And The russian revolution, among others as well as sharing models when nothing.
Else works, That's, good yeah.
That's good That's what i've got to say.
ON this, i, mean yeah obviously this anthropic guy is going to frame certain things as marketing for, the company right he that that's going to determine the way that that that he uses certain words and the way that he discusses machine learning and. Neural networks right when he's saying that this is like based on the human, brain roughly it's, because yeah it's because it's because it's a machine learning, neural network so it's that's going to frame
the way that he's. DOING it i think it makes sense For The catholic church to try to enter into dialogue with a Company, like, anthropic sure especially if, they can, you know unite against teals efforts and even maybe some of some of the Efforts Of. Open aye But obviously anthropic has their own motivations for, doing this which is to.
Enrich, themselves, yes yes BUT it's i don't think it's.
Surprising That The catholic church will will also try to enter into dialogue to influence the outcome of. THESE things i think, in General the pope statement is.
IS fine i Think the pope statement.
IS fine i do think this might be a data point in terms of in The future church may need to recognize that you can't actually work with.
These guys perhaps that will be the outcome. We'll, See WELL but, I mean I think i think that's part of what's happening, here, though right is that the Reason the church IS taking antiai positions while working with them is that they're like they're they're trying to have it both ways in terms of co opting both LIKE the antiai movement and also work like work with these companies to sort of like build their.
INFLUENCE space i don't see it, FULLY that i think for, the popes because he's been very consistent about being horrified by the growth of the arms industry and the IDEA of ai weapons. IN war i kind of suspect From the, vatican's standpoint when that all Erupted with anthropic pulling out and saying they weren't willing to work With the Department of defense on the things the deity wanted them, to do that that's probably When the vatican made. The CALL
but i don't. Actually know, You know i'm Not gonna i'm not going to say that the more sinister outcome is definitely not. What's OCCURRING but i think there's a number of ways to kind of look at what the decision that was made and why it.
WAS made, i Mean.
The catholic arch is one of the most globally influential
bodies on. The planet they do have like their theological reasons FOR opposing ai as well as sort of ethical reasons that it's illuminated by the pope in terms of like work, of protections in terms of the anti, war STUFF and i do believe he has, like actual, you know legitimate spiritual beliefs about like what, humanity is and it WAS something i appreciate is that he doesn't just take THIS like ai skeptic point of view and just to deny THAT like ai will, you know significantly transform, our,
world RIGHT because I think ai is is transforming production and in some pretty. Significant Ways that pope's not just HOPING that ai will. Go away he's affirming that we actually need to do something about this to protect our. Own humanity and EVEN though ai is not, human it humans do determine how it will, be developed and therefore we. Should ACT and i think that makes sense for. His, POSITION yeah. I don't i'm not surprised as to the
fact that he's. DOING it i guess my long term DOUBT is i don't think any of these companies have the ability on their own to make. Responsible, choices no certainly not the future of these.
Of THESE and i don't think they have the ability to contribute to.
Responsible, DECISIONS sure i think they need to be, Man, handled yeah totally by armed agents of. The state OTHERWISE armed us are going to have to, do it, you know that's that's, the reality and that's, the reality not JUST, with ai that's the reality with every.
Mega. Corporation right if.
The government does not stop them from destroying life for large numbers, of people then large numbers of people are going to do crazy things, to them. You know and if you want crazy things to stop happening to, for EXAMPLE the Ceo OF, open ai maybe he should stop saying his technology might.
Kill.
Everyone yeah on a, Related note wired has recently obtained thousands of documents FROM, THE, dhs fbi and state level info sharing. Anti terrorism they're called, fusion centers where information is shared BETWEEN, the FEDS, the stay and local local.
Law enforcement and a.
Report From The New york intelligence And Counter terrorism bureau has warned of widespread upheaval in response to the ADOPTION, of ai and has coined a, new term quote anti tech violent. Extremism unquote this is this is a this is a quote from.
This.
Report quote the chaotic atmosphere that may result FROM emergent aa technology in the next five years may fuel large scale protests that devolve into civil unrest and anti tech violent, extremist activity especially in larger bernarias Such As new york.
City unquote this.
Is, interesting also According, to Wired The intelligence bureau report Referenced the ziziants and worn that quote paranoid VIEWS regarding ai may proliferate in the Aftermath of physician's trial thanks to their quote attempt, to reason the belief that a godlike INCARNATION of ai is imminent and belief that humans must best use their time in the present to devote themselves to ensuring its compliance with, human morality or face existential consequences for failing to.
Do So.
Unquote god this is, really interesting the Stuff that roberts been talking about for quite. A, while yeah, AND like i think this report was actually written Before The sam maltman molotov, cocktail attack or at least it was written around the, same TIME but i think probably a little.
Bit before but considering the molotov cocktail attack On sim maltman's property and the gunshots fired into the home of a pro data center city, council, person like it makes sense that law enforcement IS considering antiai violence as an emerging. Threat vector but it also makes sense to be concerned that non violent opposition may get caught in a federal or state. Level, dragnet yeah.
And that's what fusion center is, to, you right they think dragnet a whole bunch, of shit.
And that's exactly what.
Centers do and most Of this wired report is talking about documents from fusion centers. And like as we have, already seen, law enforcements surveillance capacity and scope has been empowered and extended By The National Security presidential memorandum, number seven and public organizers and protesters are much easier to target than the small minority of people that actually end
up committing. Violent crimes wired reported, that, federal state and local agencies are gathering and circulating intelligence about alleged threats to. Data centers the intelligence Documents that wired quotes from outline a variety of threat actors, and models not simply data. Center protests quote, adversarial actors including state, sponsored entities, criminal groups and extremists such as homegrown island extremists or environmental
extremists MAY target us. Data centers these actors could also exploit the strategic importance of data centers TO the, us economy using them for activities like, cryptocurrency mining or leveraging third party entities such as front companies to gain ACCESS to us data and, infrastructure unquote so that outlines not just like environmental or like the general anti data center
beliefs held By the. American public like this shows like actual, you know like threats to national security by hostile state actors or, criminal groups as well as people with their
own environmental or ethical reasons FOR opposing. Ai, Domestically though wired also reported That a fusion Center In northern virginia created a Report on tesla takedown protests and in person assemblies like demonstrations In An arlington county budget meeting And A fairfax County school board meeting where people voiced OPPOSITION.
To, ai yeah and this is again also like historically what these fision centers have been, Used for exchange was, TALKING about i mean like all the way back To, LIKE god, i MEAN like i probably should have worked out in WHAT order i wanted to talk, About These, like yeah fusion centers have been used to target everything from like anti ur rock war protest stuff in like the mid two thousands through, like yeah like fusion centers are like one of the big coordinat engagents for like
all of the repression in. Twenty twenty they've been used in Like anti palestine protests and LIKE twenty fourge and the. Campus occupations, so, LIKE yeah i like these sorts of like intelligence reports are talking about like different, threat factors but going after protesters is like what these fision centers in a lot of cases are designed.
To do, so, yeah yeah.
Definitely a thing to be, concerned about given what these things are and what. They, do yeah speaking of, cryptocurrency mining, oh boy, so, yeah yeah speak speak speaking of using large entities for. Crypto bullshit so last week we talked a bit about and wash The New Federal reserve board chairman's like ties to the tech, right right ties to feel ties and recent ties to this whole sort of
world of like tech venture. Capital money AND today i want to talk about as an executive Order from may nineteenth From the trump administration that Orders The federal reserve to consider allowing crypto companies and OTHER non fdic and short entities to. Use, fedwire okay so what? Is fedwire on a. Macro level fedwire is the reason The entire american. Economy functions it is the payment service that banks IN the us used to both send money to each other
and TO. The fed if you wanted to do. An, analogy right you could say that Fedwire is PayPal, for banks but like the reality is, Not That like PayPal Is like fedwire.
For. People right fedwire.
Is maybe the single most important infrastructure piece of The entire america. A me i was gonna talk about this a, bit later but the surface on, an AVERAGE the fed estimates that it moves one point one quadrillion dollars.
Per year whoa what is a quadrillion fit then in a number of, bigness scale that's a million million dollars lot. Per, Year right like The entire american financial system moves moves through.
This service and you can also like move money to the government, through this so you can you can do exchanges With The federal reserve itself or The Different federal. Reserve, banks now in order to get access, to fedwire you have to be an, actual, bank right you have to be LIKE an fdic. Insured Bank and crypto has not had access to. This system LIKE crypto i really don't want to call them crypto banks because they're, not banks and that's why they have a net access to. The
system because they're. Not banks crypto is not money and it's not none of.
This stuff.
THE subjects, i mean IT'S subject i guess to a little bit of like, securities regulation but it's not subject to ACTUAL like fdic regulation or importantly deposit insurance, because again these are. Not, Banks now crypto has been trying to get access TO the fed wire system for years because in order for crypto companies to sort of like interface with the rest of the, banking system they have to like basically like get a bank to act as a partner for them instead of being able to like
directly move the stuff around because they can't access. The system And so trump has at least given an executive order FOR the fed to consider.
Doing This now trump cannot.
Actually, force directly like you can't just sign an executive order that says you have To let crypto do this BECAUSE of. Fed independence BUT the fed had already sort of like opened a period of public comment. On this and this is SOMETHING that i think wash, is this
this is. The way it's why it is important that this is happening after like the appointment Of Like, kevin walsh or like after he'd been, technically speaking before he'd, been confirmed but like after or like like before he'd been, sworn in but after like they knew he Was gonna he's going to get through because he is extremely friendly to.
These groups this is also a thing that's that's sort of important for the crypto industry because one of the issues that crypto has is that actually trying to like move cryptocurrency around is just. A nightmare that's like one of the reasons why, no one no one actually like uses it to purchase things because it's it's such. A disaster and getting access To the fed's payment system suddenly kind of it gives you a sort of like you can Use the fed's, playmt patform which, actually works unlike
theirs which. Do, not now the Other reason i'm bringing, this up so it's worth mentioning that even IF the fed were to allow them to create accounts With The, federal reserve they wouldn't for now have access to a lot of the services That The federal, Reserve provides like they wouldn't be able to do like they take, advantage of like repo injections and like stuff, Like that like a lot of a lot of the stuff THAT the fed uses to stabilize the, economy through like injecting money
into the banking system and injecting bonds and stuff like that into the system they wouldn't have. Access to but it's pretty clear that these shripto groups wants that eventually because that gives them access to like the actual sort of banking capacity of the, federal government which allows them access to things like very low interest short term loans,
and liquidity, et cetera, et cetera. Et cetera AND what i want to close on is is that this Is what worsh's, thing, is right he wants there to be more integration between this sort OF like i call, it, fintech right like the financial, tech things but, you know between these very fascist right wing. Tech companies they want them to be more and more directly integrated into the payment services and into the banking capacity OF the. US governments i mentioned earlier that fed wire moves again one
point one quadrillion dollars. A. Year now this this is also what's very Dangerous about trump's people being in control Of The federal reserve because there is so much infrastructure inside Of The federal reserve that if it breaks even a, little bit things that we don't think of, at all like no one like literally no one thinks about like even even if you, do stuff you tend not to think about fed wire because it. Just works and this is less of a risk now that like doge gropers aren't.
Running around but one of the Dangers of trump attempting to pay control Of The federal reserve is that his people will break something like this while doing something like
attempting to integrate crypto companies. Into it and so that's just going to be a continuing risk that we all sort of have to deal with because tech companies And the trump administration and Now the president Of The federal reserve want to fuck with these systems on which everything in all of our lives depends on in ways that we.
Never. See cool, all right.
Speaking of the things that all of our lives, depend on here are the products and services that support. This podcast products.
And services, That's, Right, leslie yeah.
All right and.
We're back so they have to unfortunately Talk, about wikipedia or at Least The. Wikimedia, FOUNDATION obviously i think everyone hears pretty big Fans, of wikipedia which is at this point has gone from the thing my teachers used to TELL me i couldn't use in projects, to like by any. Objective measure one of the most significant projects in the history of human knowledge and like storage of things that
human beings know and. Have learned it's one of the last like gasps of the promise of The, old internet and it's also the thing that underpins all OF the ai chat Bots alongside reddit in one way, or another and the answers that they give People like wikipedia is incredibly IMPORTANT, for ai which, is why like With The wikimedia foundation has made deals like WITH the ai industry in order to get money for letting them Scrape, like wikipedia which is kind of part of Why The wikimedia
foundation is currently doing really fucking. Well monetarily they've got a little under three hundred million dollars, in reserves which is about a year and a half worth of Money for so, first, off.
Wait so you're saying those little banners that fill half of the screen EVERY time I use wikipedia, ARE like i.
Don't want to actually, RIGHT now i do want to discourage people from Donating.
To WIKIPEDIA historically i, have not but yes.
You should, first, off no if you've been feeling bad about, not donating they don't currently. Need it they're okay, right now and they shouldn't get more of your money until they stop doing the Shit than i'm about to tell, you about because over the course of ten Days, in May The wikimedia foundation has engaged and what you could call major, union busting firing employees who are trying to organize their fellows and trying to like represent those values
Within The. Wikimedia foundation and my source for main source for this is a pretty good Article That jake orlowitz put Out. On, medium recently big text anti labor playbook has Come, for wikipedia and it starts with the Firing
in May Of. Brooke vibber she was the very first full time employee Of The wikimedia foundation and ITS, first cto the chief, technical officer and for more than, twenty years she's like one of the main engineers that Has made wikipedia, work right and she's also a, union organizer
so she's a very. Important person she's the lead developer for, media wiki which is the platform That runs wikipedia and had been in since two thousand, and three and it is just a very big person both in terms Of how wikipedia works and in terms of like the way in which like they're unionizing efforts. Have gone she was laid off without any like real, costs given and then a, week Later on may, twenty First the foundation Disbanded The Community,
tech team which consisted of five engineers and. A Manager The Community tech team had the job of Listening to, wikipedia editors which are number one The reason wikipedia, has content and number. Two, Volunteers right so these are regular employees whose job has been to Hear what wikipedia editors want and then help make sure that the salary employees on the team fulfill those desires and as much as that.
Is.
Possible right and so when you fire, these people you, are saying we don't really give a shit about the. Volunteer community and it's also noted in This and jake's article that most of those engineers were. Union, organizers now there is currently a solidarity Petition for. Wikipedia editor so if you are an Editor, OF wikipedia i think it would be great if you signed that. Solidarity petition this is the first time that editors have had to do
an organized solidarity action with paid. Foundation staff, and yeah it's a. Whole thing the salaried staff there are not on one side.
About this this is.
Extremely controversial it has a lot to do with the fact that a number of the, old guard including you know the folks who are a number of like some of the oldest People at wikipedia have a kind of libertarian bit, to them you. Might say And in january twentieth of twenty, Twenty Six bernadette behan was RECRUITED as ceo of. The foundation and her prior career included WORK At jp Morgan And, lehman brothers as well as a spokesperson role FOR.
The Nsc National. Security council she was On The. Obama foundation she WAS The us Ambassador.
Of chile.
Oh great this is someone who comes from a background in which fucking with union attempts are very like normal. And accepted the union's demands are. Not extreme they would not have any meaningful impact whatsoever on the pile of Cash that. Wikipedia has there's no excuse For The wikipedia foundation. Doing this you should be pissed at them and not give them more money until they make. Things, right anyway that's. My opinion i'm, done nice.
All right so we need to update once again the situation With The united states War. In IRAN the usa this week Again bombed iran and violation, of ceasefire calling it a self defense strike that means still a VIOLATION. Of cesfa the negotiations, are ongoing both sides who remain. Longwaar pot there have been various leaks and reports of
where where negotiations. Were at one Suggested that iran would exchange freeing up its assets and other sanctions relief for removing highly a. Rich Geranium IRANIAN state tv leaked details of a suppose memorandum, of understanding which would be like the meurmorandum that they would sign in order to, say,
like hey let's get back at. The table, until then these are our rules, kind of this is the rules we're operating underwhere WE negotiate themu said the blockade would end in the straight would, be reopened BUT the usa has.
Denied THAT MoU.
I don't want to go into the blow by the blow of like leak to denied things because it's just a waste.
Of time none of.
That's real it's all stock. Market manipulation like it's all.
That's sorry that's literally my. Next.
Sentence, yeah yeah it doesn't stop, people killing it doesn't stop. People dying it does change the, oil price and it does change the. Stock MARKET and i think if we report on this, too credibly we miss the fact that that that like that is the, real impact and that is how we should frame this in our not do the baraquavied thing of rushing up eight bullet points of something that someone told you would.
Never, consider, Why.
Well james you will never have a career at actious with.
That, ATTITUDE yes i.
Think that that bridge has, Been, burned garrison but my path in life has been lit by the bridges. Side burns ONE thing i do want to note Is that trump has attempted to appears to want to tie a piece seal to having other countries in the region Signed The. Abraham Accords abraham accords you're not familiar twenty twenty agreement in WHICH, The, uae Bahrain, Later sudana morocco normalized Relations. With, israel interesting that is unlikely.
To happen.
You Killed. The eyatlin now you think they're going to Sign The? Abraham, record like what are we? Doing?
HERE yeah i mean it's just going through a wish list. OF shit i guess that he or people close to.
Him.
Wan, Yeah meanwhile iran is continuing To Attack Southern curtis. DAN right i think this offer is a very clear vision Of what kurdish group could expect if they decide to alli WITH the us and serve as a, ground force and of course there are very many reasonable reasons that they would want to, do that right to include liberating themselves from an. Oppressive regime But The, united states as it has done every, other time would probably abandon
them and they would be subject. To this they are already subject to this just because of rumors that they were associating With The. United states, this week one strike injured Nine, pak peshmerger several of them very. Critically injured talking, of strikes let's Pivot, to Nigeria where africom is claiming its strikes have killed one hundred and seventy five OR more. ISIS members i KNOW that i am like the lonely voice.
On this THE second i and THE second S in isis Stand for iraq And al Sham or Iraq.
And, syria, yep, yeah, yes, yes yes it's.
CONSTANTLY Frustrated isis, corussian province that's not what. It Means Isis west africa not what.
It means so It's the islamic state Of irakanow Sham.
In africa, like, yeah incredible it's now made.
Into, you like but it.
Would be like if there was Like a christian fundamentalist Like The Georgia baptist school, of.
Like yeah.
Like The united States, of America The united States, Of, America, japan.
Yeah, come on not what the.
Word, MEANS yeah i.
Mean yeah in The new, CHARACTERISM doc i think they almost exclusively referred to it AS Isis.
K yeah So that's, corussan, province right which again Not in iraq Or else sham in what we Would call. Afghanistan today, it's fine. It's, fine yeah this is where we're. Out with the fucking acronym is not, An acronym it's just. A word i, GUESS now i. Remain, angry meanwhile Fighting Between boko HARAM and iswap Is what i'm going to. Be using And like chad continues to threaten even worse famine in, the region And hex seth is claiming that
these strikes were part of a campaign To. Defend CHRISTIANS and.
I just want to know one more thing to give you a sense of how committed this. President is maybe a year ago he heard the Call Of nigerian christians who were being targeted and KILLED by Isis, in nigeria and, He, SAID pete i Want The war department to focus on ensuring that we do everything we can to Protect.
Those christians partnerships like.
That can take time behind, the scenes but he never wavered, on it and we got the assets there and over the, last month and there hasn't been much coverage, of this WE killed isis number Two, in nigeria who's most responsible For killing christians and trying to TARGET the, us homeland and have since because of the intel we gathered killed HUNDREDS of isis members who were targeting And killing Christians, in nigeria creating a whole new.
Opportunity there so there's a lot of.
Things we do that the media pays, attention to and a lot of things That the president Empowers the department to do on behalf Of the american people that he deserves great.
Credit for so here we are paying.
IT time.
Esp asked you will notice That the african claim of one hundred and seventy five is. Not, Hundreds however hexth in that statement. Claimed hundreds maybe we are, missing something or maybe he's referring To the december twenty twenty five strikes and including all of those and rolling them. Up together it's of course worth pointing Out that nigerian government has pushed back on this narrative that these strikes are To.
Defend christians There are christian Bishops in nigeria who have pushed back on this, narrative because as With many islamist, terror groups the majority of people these people have killed Are. Not, Christians right many of Them, are muslims many of them and people of various. Other Faiths look boko. Haram right the name roughly translates To like western style education. Is forbidden, it's, Haram right like they're going after people who are in
that community who have Sought out. Western. Education like there, are, many many MANY instances i could say of these People killing. Muslim people hegcess wants to make this, a crusade and that's just not how things are on. The ground it's a very simplistic understanding of a much more. Complicated reality, but yeah that IS what i Have on nigeria. This week he is right THAT the us Media covers africa less much lesson is should but trying to do our.
Best here we have one, more story big story before, We close but first we should Mention the republican Primary in Texas. On tuesday After gaining trump's endorsement, Last Week Texas Attorney General ken paxton won the runoff election In The republican senate. Primary race paxton won by almost four hundred, thousand votes beating the fourth Term Incumbent Republican Senator john cornin at sixty four percent to thirty six percent of.
The vote this is the second week in a Row where trump has successfully intervened to steer a congressional primary win away from incumbents and toward staunch. Mega loyalists paxton will now go Up Against tall rico in the general Election.
This november should We mention paxton Calling ta? Rico?
Transgender, YEAH yeah i mean it's Not, just Paxton It's.
Miller miller.
Yeah yeah there seems to be A whole gop move to brand him as trans potentially as part of THEIR which i kind of see is some degree, of DESPERATION although i can't Really imagine paxton losing, this election so maybe it's just that they're completely out of other Ideas.
And paxson does seem to have more Aliabilities. Than cornyn, was sure But He's, he's paxton and This.
Is texas you.
Have to take this guy has been charged with crimes AND the gop tried to get rid Of him.
Texas refuses.
ABSOLUTELY not, I mean i never am putting my Faith in texas as as we. All, know yeah but IF if i were to set up, A pairing. Tallarico v paxton pairing is THE one i, would pick as Opposed to. Tallarico V the cornyn or, You know crockett. V. V, Paxton.
Sure i'm not gonna say there's no Way that. Tallerica wins it would be an Astonishing leg it would be a. Really, Yeah look i'll come on here AND admit i, was Wrong and i'll Be, TH yeah i just been too long Living.
In texas see this as like the person who's been the, Most, consistent like assuming there's an election that even sort of, functions normally this is gonna be like a two thousand and eight.
Style wave they're not like they're not Gonna.
Win texas And until i'm eve, Been wrong i've been saying this the Entire time i've been doing, the Show and i've been right every.
Single time, so like prove, Me.
Wrong texas, you KNOW when i see a Flip for, Texas coming i'll call.
It OUT but i don't.
Right, Now, nope, Yeah yeah i'm not saying it'll never happen because ghipographically, probably well at some point, like less they really succeeded their, genocide dreams but that ain't happening now on.
This, cycle.
Finally let's talk about another one of these, redistricting cases and one related To The supreme court ruling On The Voting. Rights Act, on tuesday a federal court Blocked in alabama congressional house map Drawn by republicans in twenty. TWENTY three a three judge panel found that the drawn map was intentionally discriminatory based. On race just two, weeks Ago The supreme court cleared the way for this same map to be used in the twenty twenty six. Midterm Elections alabama
republicans have since labeled the district court panel activist. To judges it's worth taking a look at who these. JUDGES are i think The eleventh circuit judge was first appointed to a district court By One. Ronald reagan the other two district judges were Appointed, by trump and this exact same three judge panel had already found this exact same
map to be intentionally racially discriminatory. Years ago this new district court order also rejects the state's claims that the twenty twenty three map was just drawn, with partisan not. Racial intent write, in quote the purpose of the twenty twenty three plan was to distribute black voters across districts to dilute, their votes at least in part because they, are.
Black unquote this latest ruling is part of a specific redistricting battle that has stretched on for, five Years with republican maps being repeatedly, struck, down, appealed redrawn and struck. Down Again now i've seen some confusion on the exact series of, events here like What The supreme court has
ruled on which maps are. Being USED so i want to just briefly go over the sequence EVENTS as i. Understand it in twenty, twenty one a district court ruled a new map drawn after the twenty twenty census Likely violated section two Of The Voting. Rights Act The supreme court upheld this decision in twenty, twenty three barring the
use of this twenty twenty. One map After The supreme, court Decision the alabama legislature adopted a new map in twenty, twenty three but a federal court again found that this newer twenty twenty three map also Likely violated, section two And The supreme court let a ban on the use of this map go through by declining to block, the order but they did not rule on the, map itself so the court appointed a special master to draw A
New alabama house map to use. Going forward in twenty, twenty five following, a Trial The district court officially Ruled that alabama's twenty twenty three congressional map did in Fact violate section two Of The Voting, rights act finding the map was quote an intentional effort to Dilute black alabama's voting strength and evade the unambiguous requirements of court orders standing in.
The, way.
Importantly The supreme court had yet to rule on the actual twenty twenty three. Map itself After The district court's ruling in twenty, Twenty five alabama did appeal To The, supreme court but they delayed consideration until After the. Louisiana case as, we know that ruling effectively nullified Much of section two Of The Voting, rights act establishing that intent of racial discrimination must, be shown not just discrimination as
an effect in the drawing of. Voting districts but after, That ruling alabama Asked The supreme court again for a quick appeals decision before the state's scheduled primary and to put the lower court's order barring the use of the twenty twenty three map on hold considering their recent ruling In the.
Louisiana case And.
On, may Eleventh The supreme Court granted alabama's emergency shadow, docket appeal vacated the order blocking the use of the twenty twenty three, district map and sent the case back to the lower court for further review in light Of the. Louisiana ruling so that's, A lot but remember that the district court already ruled that the twenty twenty three map intentionally discriminated based, on race the veried requirement set By
The Supreme court's. Louisiana ruling so when the district court reconsidered the case this, past week they found That the louisiana decision only strengthened their original ruling That THE alabama
gop map was intentionally discriminatory and deluded. Black voters this is pretty Much what sort wrote in her dissent when she argued that there was quote unquote no reason to send the case back to the district court because that court had already Concluded that alabama quote violated the Fourteenth the medment by intentionally diluting the votes of black Voters. In alabama that constitutional finding of intentional discrimination is independent of and unaffected by an any of the legal issues
discussed In the louisiana. Case unquote so that's essentially. What
happened that's essentially What The district. Court found the three judge panel also rebuffed opposition to the court ordered Map in alabama on the basis that it bears similarity to the map at the center Of the, louisiana case writing that it's their understanding Of The supreme court's recent ruling that race as a districting criterion cannot be used when, drawing maps but that, quote unquote relevant racial data may be considered for a, lawful purpose like checking that the
drawn maps Comply With Voting rights. Act precedent it's not that racial data is used in the drawing, of maps but after the maps, are drawn they can be checked against racial data to make sure they Comply With Voting rights.
Act Law The district court Wrote that louisiana's black population is not as concentrated As, in alabama requiring a black majority district to s through multiple metropolitan areas to scoop up, black voters Whereas in alabama it's quote unquote relatively easy to draw a reasonably configured majority.
Black.
District quote we are unsurprised that race blind relief is available here but was. Unavailable, there here it has been consistently obvious to us from our visual assessment of the geographic Dispersion of alabama's black population and statistics about black population centers in, the state that black Voters in alabama are relatively geographically. Compact unquote, so essentially it's actually pretty difficult to draw a map that separates out the black population to be a minority.
Force in all.
Voting districts as for, demonstrating intent the district court found That the alabama legislature only enacted the discriminatory map after knowing it would dilute the impact of, black voters and by having prior knowledge of the district print, racial impact including from federal, court findings and then passing the, map
anyway that itself. Shows, intent furthermore the judges wrote that the cases quote enormous record contains no evidence of a partisan motive unquote in the drawing of the twenty twenty.
Three map i'll quote again from the. Recent order quote in the, simplest terms the sequence and substance of extraordinary legislative events against the backdrop of the, legislature's knowledge compels us to conclude that the legislature doubled down on racially discriminatory vote dilution after we And The supreme court found that it was racially discriminatory. Vote dilution the same evidence leaves us no room to conclude that when the legislature did,
all this it had party politics. In mind the only available intent evidence tells us that consideration of race were the key. Reason unquote So the Court ordered alabama to use the alternative court ordered map already used in the twenty twenty four election for the Rest of alabama's twenty twenty six, congressional elections after which the legislature can then
create a new congressional. District plan and, of Course the State of alabama has already appealed this To The, supreme court and we will wait and see if they decide to hear.
This, case yeah this will continue to be a thing we're going to have to, report on and we, should say for some. Time, rightly yes this is going to result in. Massive, changes yeah we will continue to.
COVER them i guess it is interesting that this is the First time i've seen a court really like Interpret the louisiana ruling for like another case to a like this is this is like an over seventy page. Like, ruling yeah and they discuss like Where the louisiana case does apply and where, it doesn't and what it means
to quote unquote consider race in the evaluation of. These districts and it would, be interesting, you know If The supreme court has had to, hear this if they're going to a this court's interpretation of, their ruling or if they're going, to, say no you got it wrong and
strike down. Their interpretation but, you know, right now they did really outline like what it means to use race in reference to, these districts and how it cannot be used in the drawing of, the, district right but that it can be considered to make sure that it complies.
With the voting.
Right sack and that does not mean that it was used as a instrument in the actual drawing of.
The.
District YEAH and i think that that specificity is an interesting part of the.
New.
RULING definitely i think like, it's if like Any Other supreme, court, decision right things tend to sort of bounce around before they're.
Entirely.
Clarified YEAH like, i said this is like a a
five year, long case all stemming from the twenty. Twenty, census yeah and the maps That the republicans have tried to tried to draw, after that, which which as, Multiple Courts supreme court And The district court have, already INCLUDED the gop tried to intentionally dilute the votes Of black, alabama's right and because of the way that the black population is Concentrated, in alabama there needs to be an intentional effort to, do, That right whereas In this, louisiana
case the drawing of districts had, you know had to like looked more gerrymandered to create these black, majority districts Whereas in alabama's case that's not. Really necessary and, in fact a lot of the maps that were referenced in testimony were like. Algorithmically, generated huh. That's interesting it wasn't like then you get the crayons out and like through all Lines Like calbridge jerry did back in. The, day, no, GREAT great i. Love that i'm sure we can expect
much more wonderful algorithmically. Generated election, well, Yeah content what a time to.
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