It Could Happen Here Weekly 180 - podcast episode cover

It Could Happen Here Weekly 180

May 03, 20253 hr 22 min
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Episode description

All of this week's episodes of It Could Happen Here put together in one large file. 

  1. The Old Economy Is Dead

  2. Cosmopolitanism feat. Andrew

  3. The Canadian Election: NOTHING EVER HAPPENS

  4. May Day Special: The Gang Reviews Andor Season 2, Ep. 1-3
  5. Executive Disorder: White House Weekly #14

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Sources/Links:

The Old Economy Is Dead

https://www.versobooks.com/products/2222-carbon-democracy?srsltid=AfmBOop1btGiR59VH99WTMZMzuAgua2p9xgWyT8zbZzAhET-DEwjImqw

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-11/china-raises-tariffs-on-us-goods-to-125-in-retaliation

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/us/national/business/2025/04/11/tariffs-shipping-china-port-of-la-declines

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/trans-pacific-blank-sailings-soar-as-ocean-shipments-plunge

https://gcaptain.com/massive-surge-in-transpacific-blank-sailings-amid-u-s-china-trade-tensions/

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/air-cargo-faces-22b-revenue-hit-when-china-tariff-exemption-ends

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/modifying-reciprocal-tariff-rates-to-reflect-trading-partner-retaliation-and-alignment/

The Canadian Election: NOTHING EVER HAPPENS

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/federal/2025/results/#/all-parties

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn4jd39g8y1o

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/the-ndp-is-set-to-lose-official-party-status-after-canadas-election-heres-what-that/article_ac2e10a8-98f0-412d-81dd-a3408b07c6b4.html

https://abacusdata.ca/2025-federal-election-final-poll-of-campaign/

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

Executive Disorder: White House Weekly #14

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/restoring-equality-of-opportunity-and-meritocracy/

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-justice-department-reassigns-about-dozen-civil-rights-attorneys-amid-shakeup-2025-04-22/ 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/strengthening-and-unleashing-americas-law-enforcement-to-pursue-criminals-and-protect-innocent-citizens/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/protecting-american-communities-from-criminal-aliens/ 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/enforcing-commonsense-rules-of-the-road-for-americas-truck-drivers/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/advancing-artificial-intelligence-education-for-american-youth/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/investigation-into-unlawful-straw-donor-and-foreign-contributions-in-american-elections/

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/10/politics/political-fundraising-elderly-election-invs-dg/ 

https://bsky.app/profile/jameeljaffer.bsky.social/post/3lnxyq7teck2e

https://knightcolumbia.org/content/federal-court-says-first-amendment-bars-government-from-deporting-students-and-faculty-on-basis-of-political-viewpoint-says-challenge-to-trump-policy-can-go-forward

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2025/04/29/trump-border-militar-zone-migrants-charges/

https://bsky.app/profile/reichlinmelnick.bsky.social/post/3lnxqhgvlzs2a

https://calmatters.org/justice/2025/04/border-patrol-injunction/

https://www.aclunc.org/sites/default/files/UFW%20v%20Noem%20PI%20CLASS%20CERT%20RULING_04.29.pdf

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?webmap=35bc713ede854401a475cb9957dd2765 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/live/trump-tariffs-live-updates-china-eases-tariffs-on-select-us-goods-as-trump-says-beijing-will-eat-the-costs-191201015.html

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trumps-china-tariffs-are-shutting-the-big-loophole-that-make-shein-and-temu-so-cheap-234229735.html

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Also media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions.

Speaker 2

Welcome to it. Could that be here? A podcast where the ancient leftist adage there is power logistics has finally been realized by one Donald Trump. I am your host, Mia Wong, and with me is Gere. How are you doing.

Speaker 3

Gear Just another great day in America.

Speaker 2

It's great, it's great. There were resting judges. It's a good time.

Speaker 1

It's great.

Speaker 3

Something that Mia has probably called for before, but under different circumstances.

Speaker 2

Hey, look, have I ever publicly called for the arrest of the judge?

Speaker 1

I'm not sure I have.

Speaker 3

Maybe probably not, because like a resting power itself is a little bit problem hashtag problematic.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean this is this is this is a car sural solution to this is garrison, Like we kind of using carcialism to solve the problems of the cultural system. Sure, speaking of carceral systems, there is the economy that we're all living under, which is also quite literally a cucural system, because so much of it is based on prisident and slave labor of various kinds across the world. Now I have good news and I have bad news about this.

I don't remember what the good news was, so we're only getting the bad news, which is that, well, the good news and the bad news is that this the system that we all grew up on. That the economic system that has, you know, supported us our entire lives, or not supported us for our entire lives. The thing, you know, the system that encompasses everything we have ever known, is fucking dead. It is dead as shit. The economic system that existed literally at the end of last year

does not exist anymore. It is it right now in the process of dying. And the thing that is emerging has not emerged yet, which means we get to go to Gramsy quote where he says, this is the time of monsters.

Speaker 3

The Chinese century. My favorite whatever Gramsky, how do we say this guy's name? Gromski, Gramm gram sheet, see you fucked up too. Yeah, my favorite gram Sheet quote. We're entering the Chinese century.

Speaker 2

Look, okay, So here's the thing I I, on a fundamental level think that Gramsy is like the harbinger of the entire retreat of the twentieth century left. So I hate him and therefar if you say his name properly. Also, we're gonna get into a little bit about white. The Chinese century is going to also be a complete shitcho for them too.

Speaker 3

But you know, the Canadian century, I don't know. Finally, the Yugoslavian century with God Emperor Mark Carney in charge, he will usher in a new era of Canadian progress and global supremacy. As climate change worsens, the Canadian economy will suck up all of the independency and resources from the US in the late twentieth century. And finally, we will have a Tim Hortons in every country in the planet.

Speaker 2

I'm so excited for us to finally get our first war between two countries with Tim Hortons in it.

Speaker 3

That will be exciting.

Speaker 2

So there is a story that we have told on the show many many, many, many, many many times, and it is the story of the structure of the modern world economy, the birth of theoliberalism, the ascendancy of free trade, the decline of the US as the world's grand manufacturing power, the collapse of the clower of the global working class, and the generalized ascension of capitalism, and this specific form of capitalism as the structuring force of the world system.

It is a story of how structural forces and contingent choices, technological changes in class wears, domestic politics, and grand international maneuvers and international relations built a political and economic structure that ruled the world for half a century of American hedgem. And we are going to tell a very very abbreviated version of that story for one final time because that world the world.

Speaker 3

Because you'll probably do this again in two years. But okay, the.

Speaker 2

World that we were all born into, that world is fucking dead and Donald Trump has killed it.

Speaker 3

This is how it died.

Speaker 2

Garrison. Yes, in the beginning, there was war, sure, in the ashes of a continent's read by the flames of fascism. Two army's stood triumphinch over a new world. One of them, unfortunately, was the United States. The second one, unfortunately was the USSR. Now it's also worth mentioning that very briefly, both the French and the British assumed they would also be like superpowers and no jokes, washed, failed, failed powers, zero out of ten absolute dipshits destroyed.

Speaker 3

Oddly enough, Japan walked away with more power than either of those countries. Yes, yeah, a little bit, a little bit odd considering the conditions that led to this happening.

Speaker 2

Well, you know, I mean, but the actual shift here though, and this is and this is you know, like this actually is a lot of what this episode it's about, is that the thing that World War One or World War two did was was one also do this, but was fundamentally break the power of the old world empires, right, because the world had been ruled for several hundred years by various combinations of the French, the British, and the Germans.

And you know, this is some extent like Spain, but Spain was sort of gone, right, But like those old world empires had been what had structured everything in the world, and at the end of World War Two that suddenly wasn't the case anymore. And the product of this was that if if you look at the places in the world that had the largest remaining industrial reserves, right, you know there, I mean, there was obviously some industrial production

in Latin America, particularly Argentina. There was some like Chinese manufacturing belts that were run by Japan in China that weren't destroyed. And then there was the entire manufacturing power of the United States. And this meant that alone among countries, right, the US was in the most dominant position, like one of the most positions of great power has ever been.

And even though there technically was a second great power, right, they had an unbelievable percentage of the world's total manufacturing power. We had an unhinged percentage of the world's total gold reserves. We had I mean, I guess, like the second largest army in the world, but you know, like we were

significant the more technologically advanced than the USSR. And this had a bunch of extremely weird consequences because there was really no way for the amount of like concentrated industrial power the US had to go but down because we controlled so much of the world's wealth and so much of the world's manufacturing capacity that the only thing that could ever possibly happen was that the rest of the world would catch up and this was the thing that

was actually necessary. And this is something that was that was spurred on by the American industrial class, right because they suddenly had all of these like jeep factories you're trying to make cars out of, and they needed people to buy the cars, and the only way to do that was to rebuild Europe and to rebuild Japan in order to sort of rebuild these places as markets and

so for like a very brief time. And this is the sort of like golden age that all of these Trump people and all of these like weird dipshits like harkened back to. Was this like part time of like unmatched American power, but also it was it was a time in the world economy where you could have multiple powers industrializing at the same time without it being zero sum.

And that just was not going to last because at a certain point, and this is accelerated by things we've talked about in other episodes, like this attempt by a bunch of what we're called the non Aligned Movement or sort of the G seventy seven, you know, also like the Third World Movement, a bunch of these countries that were non alliance to like Yugoslavia, India, Pakistan, which you can immediately tell how this alliance is going to ship

because these two countries are like in the same alliance, right, like you know, this is the Chido's Yugoslavia's in this with like Saudi Arabia, these countries sort of like economic strategy was to create something that actually is in a lot of ways kind of like what Trump is trying to do, which is like using their control of resources, although again the resource of the US has now is like moneyasually took all of the fucking world's resources, right,

but using that to develop your own local industrial basis so you can have your own local manufacturing economy. And this is something that like a lot of countries pursued this, like Venezuela pursues this, like Bolivia pursues it. This is this is something that like everyone like kind of across the political spectrum is trying to do in like the

sitties and seventies and through the eighties. But the thing is it's destroyed by the second thing that's sort of a model for what these people are trying to do, which is what Reagan was able to do to the

American economy. In the sort of nineteen eighties. And what Reagan is able to do is Reagan actually does something that sounds really bizarre now, but he was actually successfully able to temporarily for about maybe like six years, six or seven years, was able to actually like dramatically ramp up American like like industrial production and like was able to do the whole sort of like we're bringing the

jobs back to the US. But the thing is, the way he did this was not the way the Trump administration is doing it.

Speaker 4

Right.

Speaker 2

What he did was, on the one hand, he blew a smoking crater in the entire world economy. And that garrison will sound familiar to you because these people are trying to blow a hole in the American economy, right, like you have seen this.

Speaker 3

Yes, I have seen the stonks and the trade and the shipments, yes I am.

Speaker 2

Yeah. But but even like like Elon Musk would like deliver like post about this right like very deliberately about how he wants to destroy the economy so that there could be like a oh yeah, brief economic hardship and that a golden age, right.

Speaker 3

Necessary hardship will have to endure for a short period of time to then reach the like Utopia, which surely around the corner.

Speaker 2

Yeah, And it's interesting because when when when serious people have to defend this, like Fox Okay, I say serious people, I'm taking this and I'm saying Fox News because like Sevi serious, Look look here's.

Speaker 3

A serious clouds.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I don't have to defend this, right, Like, Okay, you know we're not dealing with like you know, we're not dealing with like intellectual titans here. But like when someone who is mildly more intelligent than Elon Musk has to defend this, it is Reagan, they point you, because Reagan and Carter was also had a hand in this.

But Reagan does this thing called the Volker shock, right, like working working hand in hand with Paul Volker's the head of the Federal Reserve, which, notably, Trump just spent a bunch of time threatening to fire the head of the Federal Reserve and then had to back off on that because all of the markets were like, this is our fucking rubicon, Like we don't give a funck about

any of the other thing. Well, I we kind of give a fuck up the other things you be doing, but like if you fire the head of the Federal reserve, like we're going ape shit. But like you know, the the FED and Reagan work together in order to do this thing, which is the jack interest rates to just like unhinged levels, causing everyone else's debt in the world to become like unbelievably unsustainable to repay. This like annihilates

boast of the world's economies. This also creates like a double dip recession where the US has like almost twenty percent unemployment.

Speaker 1

But he's able to.

Speaker 2

Write this out specifically because like this thing actually benefits a bunch of sections of the American capitalist class. Like if you are someone who holds debt, right, this is fucking great for you. And this is something very different from what's happening right now because nobody is winning the trade war, Like everyone is just having the very worst time I've ever had.

Speaker 3

It does seem like a globe of losers.

Speaker 2

Yeah, But the thing that Reagan does that actually allowed him to temporarily restore the profitability of a lot of American manufacturing. And there is still a lot of American manufacturing. We'll get to that in a bit. But the thing he was able to do was the thing that Garrison

I was threatening at the beginning of the show. By the time I am done doing this, pot like maybe not this podcast, but I finish doing it could happen here when I like die on the battlefield in fifteen years, everyone will be able to fucking explain the Plaza Chords and the reverse Plaza Chords because they're they're the central thing that got us to this alt to this fucking place, which is that Ronald Reagan goes to Japan and goes to like West Germany, and the subtext of what he's

saying is like you are American military protectorates and because you are American build or Japan by the way, it's like the great industrial power of the nineteen eighties right and through the nineties, Like they are like the defining like they are the thing that everyone thinks about China today.

Like if you want to find every argument people make about China from the entire political spectrum, like all the way from like people in the one hands going like this is they're gonna destroy American hegemony to people on the other hand being like this is what socialism is, you can find all of those same arguments people made about Japan in like the eighties but you know, what Reagan forces these countries to do is to increase the

value of their currency relative to the dollar. Right, So the dollar is suddenly worthless, and because the dollar is like worthless relative to other international currencies, it makes US

manufacturer more competitive. And this like temporarily restores American techleological production, but then they have to reverse them because that nukes the entire Japanese economy, and the Japanese economy becomes an entire thing of real estate speculation, which you know, I Gars, I know you may be too young to remember what happened the last time that we based the.

Speaker 3

Entire economy of speculation.

Speaker 1

But that's not true.

Speaker 3

You're like a few days older than me. Come on, that's unbelievably not sure. I am over half a decade older than you.

Speaker 5

Is that real?

Speaker 6

No?

Speaker 3

Yeah, real, Yeah, we'll talk about this afterwards. I don't I don't think that's true. Let me pull up my mea wong docs file to check once, all.

Speaker 2

Right, while Garrison checks to be a wog docs file. The economy that is built up from all of us, though, right, is an economy based on a few different things. One, it's based on an entire network of global supply chains with you know, like very very minimal tariff barriers between them.

Speaker 7

Right.

Speaker 2

It is based on the sort of doctrine of free trade, which is you know, not really free, but obviously like the ways that these were written structurally benefited the US, right where like the US is allowed to do all of this shit for like its corn production that nowhere the country is allowed to do. Like all of the market tampering that all these people scream about is just

what the US does with corn. But you know, the entire canoxicism was based on being able to cheaply produce different components of goods in different countries, assemble them, and then move them across the world cheaply in order to sort of avoid the localized power of workers movements. It is based on the US running a series of bubble economies, so the tech bubble, the housing bubbles, heata, et cetera.

And it is based on the US dollar and the bond as like the fundamental aspects of the like as the world reserve currency, the fundamental thing that drives the system. And when we come back, we will talk about this literally all exploding and what it's going to do for all of you, which is not good. Yay, okay, we

are back now. One of the things that have in a lot of ways locked the system in place was that because of the way that these these manufacturing like networks are set up, right, because they're all so interlinked, because they're all dependent on like exploiting differences between production capacity and like labor costs in different countries. They are all so interconnected that if you try to pull one thread out of it and do a major change to

the system, the entire thing is at risk immediately. And this meant that there has always been an enormous structural incentive to keep things the way they were, even if everyone can also already like realize that they're kind of fucked up. And this days all the way back to

like things that most people largely have forgotten about. But like, oh, Alma, for example, ran on renegotiating NAFTA, and he never like intended to do that, but like even if he had the moment he got into power, you know, like Trump renegotiates NAFTA too, right, But he renegotiates NAFTA and it's just like the same trade deal because for a long time, right, if if you were going to run the capitalist economy

in a functional way. The only thing you could possibly do was run it the way he had already been set up, because there were so many structural factors about how this is snow production works, that this is only that this is the only way you could run it and still like have the economy not explode. But now we have finally produced a group of men so stupid that they are unconstrained by the structural limits of the economy.

And this is where we get into the lebrond of turf terrasom'er on right now, and we get into something that is very important to understand about this, which is that this shit is not about economics right in the sense that you or I were understand them. This is none of this stuff is about like we want the economy to grow. It's this is not something that like really any of the major sectors of capital want because

it is just nucleus whole thing. And this is why you've seen a split between even Elon Musk has like openly criticized the trade policy, even if he's been sort of hedging it. What we've been seeing is this widening rifted.

And we talked about this in the last executive disorder, where like different factions of the Trump administration were literally trying to like isolate Trump from like Navarro, who's the guy who wants to do all of the all of the tariff bullshit they've been, you know, like literally try to get them alone in a room so that they can they can implement their trade policy. But the actual

underlying urge here is completely ideological, right it is. It is this idea that like if you run a trade deficit with a country, or if you're if you are buying things from a country, they are ripping you off, and you always need to be selling more things than you're buying, which is just like so okay on one level, like this is just so fucking nonsense that like attempting to explain why is bullshit is kind of pointless, But we're gonna do it anyways, because someone fucking has to somewhere.

And this actually does also reveal something about the way that money has always worked under these systems. Okay, so before we get to like what this is going to do to the entire world economy, we need to talk about Garrison. Do you know what balance of payments.

Speaker 3

Is that sounds like something I would ask my accountant about.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so this is a technically an accounting thing, right, But the balance of payments of a country, it is like a leisure thing, right, But it's the measure of like their accounts, right in terms of all of the money coming out of the country and all of the money coming into the country. That's you know, that's like trade balance stuff, right, And the balance of payments is actually very important for a lot of countries because specifically most countries in the world need to buy things in

a currency they can't print. This has always been the structural limit of things like modern monetary theory, which talks about how like your country's ability to like have things isn't constrained by just like the pure money supply of your country as long as you're buying things in your own currency, right. Like the purpose of money is the thing that move assets around. But inflation isn't a product.

I mean, like, yeah, okay, if you just like hammer the fucking printer button, right, Like, yeah, you can cause hyper inflation, but substantively because money is something that is a production of the government, because it is literally government debt, right, It's not a commodity in the conventional sense where you have to like figure out how much of it there is, and there's like a limited supply of it, and you have to like manage limited supply and make sure the

economy doesn't explode. You can just use the money that you have, and you can use debt like deficit spending effectively to continue to circulate goods around the economy. The problem is if you have to buy something that is not in your currency, that's where you need trade because you need to find a way so you know, I'm gonna taken example that we're gonna come back you later, which is Bolivia.

Speaker 5

Right.

Speaker 2

If you are Bolivia, you need to get American dollars so you can buy like gas, right, so people can like fucking fuel their cars. And the problem is you can only buy oil in American dollars, so you have to find something to export to a place where you can get American dollars for it. And in this sense, balance of payments actually matters enormously, right, And balance of payments is also just like a function of all of your trade deficits and all of your trade share pluses

sort of combined. Right, But think about the US. This is a notable thing. Everyone uses the dollar to buy shit. There's like nothing that you can't buy with the dollar. So for the United States, none of this shit matters at all, none of the balance of payment stuff.

Speaker 3

It is completely.

Speaker 2

Irrelevant, like literally completely totally and utterly irrelevant. Right now. If you are like Bolivia and you run out of dollars, then what you have is a spirally economic crisis where like people looking suddenly can't buy food because no one can buy oil, so no one can move things around, so like the entire economy literc collapses. This is a

very very very common mode of economic collapse. But you know, none of the things that the right is talking about, like in terms of like, oh you have like the United States has like a trade deficit with China is like yeah, great, that means that we're buying things from them. Like the one good Rand Paul quote ever, was like, yes, I have a trade deficit with my grocery store, like and that's fine.

Speaker 3

Mia goes full Rand Paul on the podcast today.

Speaker 2

Yeah I know what. But the thing is, the thing is, it is very very funny that Rand Paul is now complaining about this because it's like well, yeah, I don't know. If all of you motherfuckers hadn't spent all this time like fucking polling around with like Alex Jones and the Klan, like we probably wouldn't be here right now.

Speaker 3

Yeah, zero falls is definitely like the Tea Party does have a sizeable chunk of the blame here.

Speaker 2

Yeah, like like that's the thing, like this, this is your all of your fucking fault. Lock them up quick, zero to ten, zero to ten, Get him out, Get him out, gethim out.

Speaker 3

Now.

Speaker 2

Do you know what else we need to get out? Gett a stock?

Speaker 3

Oh it's these fucks and services. Yeah, get them out of stock.

Speaker 2

Get them out of stock while you still can.

Speaker 3

Well, we still have an economy.

Speaker 2

We are back now again, as I was saying, like this attempt to make the American economy function in a way that it has trade surpluses with every other country. And also, and this is also important, these people don't think that like services are real and a lot of what the US exports as services. But because they're all these really weird like me, because they're all fascists, right, they all have this all of this weird ideological shit about masculinity and about the favoring of the concrete over

the abstract, because the concrete is like masculated. It is like it is the nation, right like this, like steel workers and people who fucking hammer coal out like this. This is what masculinity is. This is what nationalism is. This is what men are supposed to do.

Speaker 3

Yeah, you have the materialists on the evil side, and you have the post materialists on well.

Speaker 2

No, okay, so this is a long time ago. I did a bunch of episodes called The Class and the Culture War, and one of the points that I make in that episode is that one of the arguments that the Canadian Jewish Marxist historian Moish Pistone makes about what the Holocaust was was this attempt to pit the concrete

part of capital against the abstract part of capital. Right where the concrete part of capital is like the nation and the worker and the factory and like the boss, right and all of these like concrete things were pitted against the like the quote unquote abstract part of capital, which is to say, like quote unquote like Jewish financiers and all of the sort of like weird collection of like modifiers that gets associated with like you know, the

rootless positive politanism, like the globalism, like all of this shit, right, And what the Nazis did was embody all of that stuff into just the figure of the Jewish person and his arguments. And this is arguing about like sort of structural anti semitism and what the Holocaust was was that

the like that was what the Nazi revolution was. That's what the liquidation of like and this is how episode describes, like liquidation of Jesus is what this is what the hall, this is what the genocide was, which their attempt to destroy the like abstract part of part of this thing by pitting it against the concrete part of this thing. And this is what these fucking people are also are also doing in their own way, right, Like.

Speaker 3

Yeah, they're just doing it with like the price of eggs or like the availability of housing.

Speaker 2

Right, and you know, and it's also knowing like these people are like unhe and anti Semitic, right, because this

is all part of the same ideology. They just sort of like they're doing the shit in different ways and they haven't like yeah, I don't know, like if these people are in power for like a decade, we might just get this right where they're literally doing the Holocaust again, but like we're not at that point yet, but we're at the point is where like this this kind of like under like this kind of fascist understanding of the nation and masculinity and like the concrete versus the abstract,

and like these figures can be like embodied in anti these things. And this is also what like what the like this is what the administration is doing with immigrants, right, is like passing them in that role of like the abstract, like the foreigner, they the national, the like the anti the anti national.

Speaker 3

Those things are are is causing our economic problems, our housing problems. And then you have other instances like with like Mexico and Canada where they tie in the trade war with this like ventanyl thing, being like you know, like immigrants are bringing fentanyl over the border and we're

using tariffs as a negotiating tactic to stop ventinyls. Like they're they're bringing in even more like aspects regarding like immigration and tying it directly to like our trade wars with these with these you know, massive massive countries some of our most important trading partners.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and this is causing an interesting split because Trump's like political coalition right has a bunch of kind of different kinds of fascists in a lot of ways. We're like Trump and Navarro and like, i mean, Trump is instinctually pro tariff and like he can be talked out of it because again this guy's brain, like we saw this last administration, Like the last person in the room

with him can convince them, but basically anything. But you know, those people are structurally committed to like thisacivic version of masculinity. And there's a lot of portions of the right that are and that are committed to like this trade policy is like the America first American nationalist thing. But like

someone like Elon Musk isn't that committed to this. And like even a lot of the people who are like the inner circle sort of like Jarvin like tech fascist right are like okay, but hold on, like we make all of our shit in China, so like you know, and this is why, like Elon is coming against the terrorists because like, yeah, they're gonna fuck him, like because he has to import stuff and export stuff from China because that's where a bunch of his production facilities are, right,

and you know, and if once you get out of the circle of of like that kind of like tech fascist right, and the tech people are the people who are the most closely aligned with this administration, right, like an internships of like all the sexus of the capital,

tech is the most closely aligned one. But you know, you can get out into like places like fucking Walgreens and Walmart, right, and these are also like like the Waltons as a family are like traditional backers of the right for ages and ages and ages right, there've been backers of far right causes. They also don't want this because also their entire supply chains work you fucking China and work through moving a bunch of like commodities around, and the further route you go when you when you

start getting into like actual finance capital. These people are fucking terrified because they're looking at this and like, holy shit, we're about to lose all over goddebt money. And the consequence of this is that all of this stuff is shaping out in a sort of political battle in the administration over who can get Trump in the room last to try to figure out how how the economy is

going to work. But the problem is, and I have been vindicated in this In the very brief amount of time between when the episode of Friday came out and when we're recording this, there are no negotiations with China, Like they haven't started. There's no process for starting them.

Speaker 3

Trump does keep lying about starting negotiations, and yeah, he's just lying about this, right, Chinese government says, no, we have not started negotiations.

Speaker 2

It's like, no, there's no negotiations. Yeah, and there and and again, like structurally there can't be negotiations because there's no actual way for the US to like not have a trade deficit with China, Like there's no way you can do that. And that's the thing that will satisfy these people. So all of this means that the economy

is fucking dead, right. This is the sort of like free trade economy we've all grown up in that functions off of like you know, like fucking drop shipping and all this cheap production of a bunch of other countries and you know, like assemblies of a bunch of different like goods in different places, and the US is like the economic center of the world is just fucking gone. Now.

Speaker 3

One of the reasons I.

Speaker 2

Started writing this episode in the first place is that I have read so much fucking analyzes of these goddamn turf tariffs, and do you know how many of them, for a single fucking second considered what this was going to be like for anyone who doesn't live in the United States.

Speaker 3

What the fuck is wrong with people?

Speaker 2

Why does nobody fucking care about a single goddamn person who lives outside the United States. I have read so many fucking analyzes of this fucking shit. I have read these things from I have read these things from the business papers. I have read these things from fascists. I have read these things from the center left. I have read these things from leftists. Do you know how many of these things have said anything about actual fucking people who do not live in the goddamn United States. Fucking

none of them. Every once in a while you'll get like, this will be bad for the economy of China, and this is this is a catastrophe because the people who are going to be most affected by this when when the fucking turf terrorists some liberation they come back into effect over the summer are the working classes Sri Lanka.

Speaker 3

This is going to be the.

Speaker 2

Fucking apocalypse for a bunch of people who have been going through hell for years and years and years and years. It's going to be places like fucking Bolivia, who which is already facing a dollar crisis and is struggling to import fuel.

Speaker 3

It is going to be places like Bangladesh. It is going to be places.

Speaker 2

Like Vietnam, which is, you know, structurally in a better position than a lot of the rest of these countries, but like fucking won't be in a structurally better like balance for a structurally better position when it has like ninety percent goddamn tariffs on it. And yes, the US is going to be real fucking bad, right. Everything is going to cost a lot more money. All of us are going to have a lotless jobs. The people who are in jobs are going to make a lot less money.

There is going to be a lot of people fucking homeless. There is going to be a lot of people who can't get fucking food. It is going to be a catastrophe. And also at the same time, the US is going to look like fucking fully automated, luxury gase based communism

compared to fucking Shri Lanka. This kind of sort of wrote American nationalism that has consumed the brains of basically this entire goddamn country on a level so deep Americans don't even fucking think about it, Like, is the reason why we fucking have all of this bullshit in the

first place. And this is why, like in like four fucking months, literally no one in the entire country social security is actually going to show up because nineteen year ol grow up doesn't understand sequel, because nobody in this fucking country gives a single shit about anyone who lives outside of the country enough to try to do a single goddamn word of analysis about how this is going to affect everyone. Because the death of the global economy will be felt here, it is going to be felt

so much fucking worse everywhere else on goddamn Earth. And I am, like, I am losing my fucking mind at the extent to which everyone is just fucking refusing to

engage with this completely. This is gonna be being unbelievably fucking angry because, like I don't know, a bunch of my family doesn't live in this country, which means I have to deal with the fact that, like everyone else who lives in another country is a human being who's exactly the same as fucking we are, and this is the thing that nobody else appears to want to fuck

deal with. I am losing my shit. Please God, stop talking about the tariffs as if they only affect the United States and aren't mostly going to be born by

everyone else. I didn't write a transition for this, but you know, I will transition out of this by again going back to the fact that all of the reason this is going to be so bad is that the global economy is based on, you know, a combination of resource extraction and a combination of logistical supply lines that all rely on there not being one hundred percent tariffs

on goods and importers to the US. And when this shit goes through, and when the rest of the tariffs go through and make it you know, the thing that's happening right now is an attempt to avoid this stuff is everyone you know, and this is something like Nintendo has been talking about right where they were, like, okay, our plan to avoid the tariffs on China is to

move a bunch of our production into Vietnam. And that was happening anyways before the tariffs because of sort of rising labor costs in China, and you know, a whole bunch of sort of factors like that, but none of that shit, none of that stuff that's like to sort of like keep the current global economy on a lifeline, is going is going to be able to function once the tariffs on basically of the country on Earth go

into effect. And there's a second problem here, which is that, Okay, so what is the new economy going to look like? These people, like the people running like the administration, right, like people like Navarro and people like Trump, and a lot of the sort of like, right, who is driving the policy thing here think that that the production that's happening everywhere else in the world will just be replaced by the US. And there was a trap that people

fall into with Chinese economics. And I do this too sometimes because it's, you know, it's a fast and easy way to think about the Chinese economy, and it's not accurates. Well, it's not like, isn't capital the whole picture of what's

going on. But the way that people think about the Chinese economy tends to be that the reason that things are made in China is because labor is cheap there, because either the culmination of exploitation and poverty, and that's true to an extent, right, But the actual sort of genius from capitalist perpective of capitalis returned to China was that, you know, from a capitalist perspective, the Chinese workforce, and this continues to be true thirty or forty years into

the transition, is highly educated and highly skilled. And the education was paid for not by capitalism, right, it was paid for by the sort of socialist system like this, This combination of things of a highly educated and an increasingly highly skilled as they've been, you know, working these jobs, means that there is an extremely high skilled migrant labor population that knows how to do a bunch of shit like circuit board assembly and like stuff with like chip assembly, right,

that is vital to making electronics. And the US does not have a couple of one hundred thousand migrant workers that you can just have and like exploit and not pay healthcare costs to to know how all of the chip manufacturing shit works. Right, There are people in the US who know how to do some of these kinds of things. But we're talking, you know, even though the US does have a manufacturing economy and it is very high tech, it is not on the scale of these things, right.

And the second, the second big reason why things are producing in China, and this is the reason why production didn't just shift all shift out of China after twenty eleven when there were huge protests there and huge riots there over sort of labor conditions, is that there was an unbelievable amount of like capital outlet, like this physical factory infrastructure that is in China that you can't easily

just move out to another country. And this is this is the basic things like the power grid functions right, and you can't really easily replicate that, and you can't just have this thing that there's all these people want to do where like the US will just suddenly, you know, have all of these factories, right and well suddenly like all these things will just like come back and miraculously like there will be all of these jobs because like who the fuck is going like we don't we literally

we don't have the technology for this. We'll not technlogy. It was like, who is going to build all of the factories? Right, Like the factories don't exist here, the like the inter technical systems for them don't exist here.

Speaker 3

You don't want to switch to costing fifty thousand dollars available in ten years pre order now Sorry, no available in twenty years. I forgot about the environmental impact surveys.

Speaker 2

Yeah, iPhone, iPhone twenty years.

Speaker 7

Yeah.

Speaker 2

But like you know, and like and like a lot of this is because like you know, you're hearing a lot of reports now with like small business owners. We're talking about like, yeah, it's so much easier to work with Chinese manufacturers, is like impossible to work with American manufacturers, And part of that is just exploitation, right, Like, yeah, there's a lot of things that like there there were like labor conditions that are very common in China that do happen in the US, but are much easier to

do there. But also, like I don't know, like China has like an entire network of like the ability to basically do this sort of like pop up light and media manufacturing that can like retool itself really quickly, and the US doesn't fucking have that, right, Like, we do have a bunch of manufacturing in the US, right, Like that is the thing that we have, but it was largely pushed into like the suburbs to get rid of sort of like the masses of workers that are rose

and cities like Detroit to like atomize them, right, And this is actually like also happening in China right now, weirdly, Like China has been pivoting to a service economy for a long time, but think this thing as those service economies, A lot of that shit is like also like drop shipping production, right but like, you know, there's no actual way for you know, befure like capital atl like costs

and things like that. There's no actual way to replicate the conditions in China that make it like an effective like source of global production in the US or even in like a country like India, Like there's just not the infrastructure there to do it, and there's not the sort of like migrant labor population. It's not the sort of things that you need. And what this means right now, right is that like there is not a future lined up to replace the one that we're in right now.

We literally don't know what this is going to do because no one has ever bothered planning this shit out. Because this is just like taking a sledgehammer to fucking everything, like they are trying to extract the copper wires from the house and in order to do this, they like, you know, A, because they think they think that's how the economy works, is they attract the copper wires, and b their plan to extract the copper wires is to

blow the house up with dynamite. And now, no one's ever done in environmental impact statements on what if you blow the house up with dynamite?

Speaker 3

Because why the fuck would you do that? Right, Sometimes the police do that.

Speaker 2

It's true, it's true, but I guess, I guess they is the world's police force. But go, you know, like, no one has planned for this. But the second thing is there isn't another model of capital waiting in the wings in the way that there was when the sort of Reaganites did this the economy, because the Reaganites had an entire ideological apprightus, they had a like a functional way for the economy to work and be worse and be more exploitive. But there's nothing behind this, right, there's

just a vision that literally cannot work. And so the place that I want to end as we head into the end of the economy, and as you know, I like I've been trying to grapple with what is it going to look like after this is that we just

don't know. Things in the supply chain are going to break that we have never thought about before, Like medical systems are going to start breaking down, Right, The supply chains for like like really really basic goods that we don't even think about the production process of is going to start breaking down because it relies on being able to cheaply import one very very specific kind of like I don't know, like ball bearing that's made in one

factory and suddenly cost like four hundred times as much as it did before, And we don't know what that's going to do. And this is on the one hand, absolutely horrifying, right, like this is going to mean an unbelievable amount of suffering for people across the world. But on the other hand, there is no plan, right, They don't have a fucking strategy, And that means that the future of the global economy is up in the air, and it's up to us to make it a fucking

better one. Right, It's we either drive these people from power and we and we destroy the basis of their power on such a fundamental level they can never return to power, right, Like, we just we just fucking kneecap them. We physically seize all of the fucking assets and all of the things, of the productive capacity that they have that has been allowing you to do this. We make sure they can never get it again, and we make

sure that we fucking control it. And we either do that or we all get crushed for a generation and we enter a period of just unmitigated global suffering the likes of which only a few people in the most hideously wardone parts of the world have experienced today.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I for one am very excited to see the the anarchist liberal reglobalization Alliance finally fighting in the streets of Seattle to regain globalization full circle.

Speaker 2

You know, I will point out the reason they all called it alter globalization and not anti globalization was that like one of the one of the original line of them did say anti globalization of them did, right, but like, like like a lot of their argument was like the West Coast teams, certainly this is true, but like like it's also it's also true that like like what like one of the arguments they were making was that like neoliberal globalization meant that people couldn't move to places, but

capital could and The thing that they want was a world where people can move between things and like, fuck capital, what.

Speaker 3

The fuck like eat shit?

Speaker 2

Right, And that's a world that we can build, right, We can build a world where fucking nobody gets arrested by the immigration gestapo, where like there isn't a fucking line on the ground that dictates whether people can disappear you to a concentration camp.

Speaker 3

And that is also globalization.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 3

We just have to fucking do it and ar co Clintonism one day we can look at a beautiful world.

Speaker 2

Look, if Bill Crystal can admit the radicals were right, all of these other motherfuckers could come around.

Speaker 3

We've been right all but we've been right the whole fucking time. Fuck you assholes.

Speaker 2

All of you broke this world and it is now our job to put it back together. And you fuckers are going to back us or we are all going to be killed by fascism. And those are the terms.

Speaker 3

Deal with it. It's a strange world. Do we live in.

Speaker 8

Boo, Hello and welcome to it could happen here. I'm here to ask you if you can imagine a world where national borders don't define our identities. This internationalist idea has historically been known as cosmopolitanism, and it has some deep roots, including interestingly some connection to anarchism, and of course that's what we're seeking to explore here today. I'm joined once again by the one and only.

Speaker 9

It's James James Stout. Thanks for having me, Andrew, I'm excited about this one.

Speaker 8

Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to have this conversation. Are you familiar with cosmopolitanism.

Speaker 9

Yeah, and like, look if there gets the more broad sphere of like anarchist internationalism, something I'm very interested in, right, Like, we had an interview on the show maybe two weeks ago, for a few weeks ago, and people hear this with people explicitly calling themselves internationalists fighting in Mianmar. Of course, I've spent time in re Java and with internationalists there, So, like internationalism is something I'm really interested in for sure.

Speaker 8

For sure, I think it's a very compelling and inspiring idea, especially in a world that lacks many of those ideas. At its core, cosmopolitanism is just the belief that all human beings belong to the same shared moral and political community that transcends national, cultural, and political boundaries. In the book, Cosmopoulitanism, ethics, and the Wilders Strangers. Philosopher Kwame Anthony Appia describes cosson Politanism as quote two strands that intertwine in the notion

of Cossopolitanism. One is the idea that we have obligations to others, obligations that stretch beyond those to whom we are related, with the ties of kith and kin, or even the more formal ties of shared citizenship. The other is that we take seriously the value not just of human life, but of particular human lives, which means taking an interest in the practices and believes that land them significance.

People are different, the Cossopolitan knows, and there is much to learn from our differences, because there are so many human possibilities with exploring. We neither expect nor desire that every person or every society should converge on a single mode of life. Whatever obligations are to others or theirs to us, they often have the rights to go their own way. So basically, we have obligations to others beyond just our immediate infiliations, and that human diversity is something

to be valued, not just tolerated. So it's not the idea of assimilating all of humanity into one singular culture or society or government. Is the idea of recognizing and embracing the diversity of humans, but recognizing our shared affinity all the same. A couple different versions of cosmopolitanism. There's some moral cosmopolitanism, or the idea that all humans have equal moral worth. There's political cosmopolitanism, the idea that global

governance or international institutions should supersede national borders. And then there's cultural costopolitanism, which is the blending in exchange of cultures through migration, trade, and shared histories. But costopolitanism fully embraced has I would say an inherent tens with power,

especially nationalism, the states, and capitalism. And while it's true that liberal cosmopolitanism relies on global institutions like the United Nations and reinforces hierarchies, anarchist cosmopolitanism envisions of world where solidarity, cooperation, and mutual aid emerge from below through free association, rather than being imposed from above. So today will be unpacking the history of cosmopolitanism, how anarchists have engaged with the topic,

and why it remains somewhat of a battleground today. Yes, the term itself comes from the Greek cosmopolitis, which means citizen of the world. The earliest articulation of this idea is often attributed to Diogenes of Sinope, who is a Synic philosopher who, when asked where he came from, simply replied,

I'm a citizen of the world. According to Martha Nusbaum, Greek stoics like Xeno of Citium, Seneca, and Marcus Aurelius expanded on this idea, arguing that humanity shares a universal reason and should live in accordance with nature, not artificial divisions of state or tribe. Of course, many of these philosophers didn't have any issue with patriarchy or slavery in Greece, so there is some inconsistency in their concept of a shared humanity.

Speaker 9

Yeah, the two counts as human I guess, isn't it like? Which is pretty bleak.

Speaker 8

Indeed, But let's pass forward a bit. During the Enlightenment we see a more structured political philosophy of cosmopolitanism. Emrgin Emanuel Kant was one of its most famous proponents. In the book Perpetual Peace, kan't imagine a cosmopolitan condition, where individuals, not just states, had universal rights, and where a global federation of free republics would ensure peace and cooperation. However, his version of cosmopolitanism still relied on legal structures and

state based governance. Another Nightman thinker associated with cosmopolitanism was Dni Dederu, who criticized colonialism and argued for a cultural exchange free from that kind of domination. He also argued against monarchy, the church, and aristocratic privileges, as they were obstacles to a truly free and universal human community, which then brings us to the French Revolution, which brought these

ideas into the real world. Revolutionaries declared the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, which proclaims universal rights beyond national or social status, but the revolution soon became entangled with nationalism, early under the Acabins, who suppressed descent and waged wars in the name of France. Meanwhile, the Haitian

Revolution provided a different example of liberation. In practice. Enslaved Africans, inspired by the French Revolution's rhetoric of liberty inequality, revolted against French colonial rule and established the first free Black republic. The revolutionaries, led by tous Saint Levitire argued that liberty was a universal human right, not one limited to European citizens,

and declared Haiti a refuge to all enslaved persons. But despite its radical implications, the Haitian Revolution was largely ignored or outright opposed by European powers. Their so called enlightenment only extended Europe, ignoring our racial and colonial realities. Seeing this time the emergence of nationalism, which on the one hand promoted self determination for homo pressed nations, but on the other hand, saw the nation state as a superior

form of political organization. So anarchists were among the earliest critics of nationalism. Patrons of Pradawn, for instance, rejected both the nation state and centralized cosmopolitan governance, instead advocating for federation, a frequently misunderstood concept that refers in anarchist literature to a decentralized network of freely associated individuals and groups working

in solidarity. Similarly, Mikhil Vicunen attacked nationalism as a tool of ruling elites, arguing that states use national identities of press, class struggle, and international solidarity. Bi Cunin did back national liberation movements, but he understood the danger of nationalism as

a force that often replaces foreign rulers with homegrown oppressors. Instead, Bcunen promoted an gist internationalism where workers and oppressed peoples across borders would unite against both capitalists and state powers. By contrast, the Bolsheviks would eventually developed the idea of socialism in one country, and the ever paranoid Stalin would

famously deride Jewish intellectuals as quote rootless cosmopolitans. This, of course aligned him with the rest of Europe's nationalists in their anti semitism inaccurate cricketerization of cosmopolitanism as opposed to cultural identity or sovereignty and ramid defense of national borders. Honestly, I would not be surprised if Trump or Putin used some equivalent to rule less cosmopolitanism today.

Speaker 9

Yeah, yeah, I did see. It was like a pro Trump account. I guess constantly or unconstantly paraphrasing Stalin this week.

Speaker 1

So that was great.

Speaker 9

Really, will they say it's like, how many divisions does the judge command? Which is a I think there might be a quote from Startin if it's not quotes a paraphrase, right, But in this case, it's a reference to the attempts by a district court judge in GC to block the rendition of people to El Salvador who are accused of being members of various gangs, and Mirosalva culture being the two main ones.

Speaker 8

Yes, so just being expelled. What's the connection to Stalin?

Speaker 10

Though?

Speaker 9

The quote how many divisions does the judge command? Let me, I'm pretty sure how many divisions does the pope command? Was the staling?

Speaker 2

Quite?

Speaker 1

That's right?

Speaker 9

So, like it's referencing this idea that like might makes right and like that, you know, if you have the bar of the state, then you're not accountable to morally or even even within the confines of the state, like separation of powers that we're supposed to happen in the US, right, like if you have the monopoly on coercive violence and you're no longer constrained by those things.

Speaker 8

Right, Yeah, I see, I see. So of course anarchists suppose all those things. They opposed what is happening now, and they oppose what was happening then. From its inception, anarchism has been an internationalist movement rejecting the artificial borders

imposed by state and champion in global solidarity. Unlike Marxist internationalism, which has often relied on the centralized structures of the First, Second, or Third internationals, anarchists emphasized decentralized horizontal networks of struggle the connected workers, revolutionaries, and stateless peoples across continents. The anarchist Saint Emir Internationale, which ran from eighteen seventy two

to eighteen seventy seven, was one such network. As discussed by Lucian van der Waldt and Schmidt in Black Flame, that group explicitly rejected nationalism and state power, and throughout history anarchists worked a bridge linguistic, cultural, and national divides from multilingual anarchist newspapers in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries such as La Protester Argentina, their Camp in Germany and The Libertaire in France, through transnational cynicalist movements like the

Industrial Workers of the World, which organized workers across race, nationality, and language in the early twentieth century, and including contemporary mutual aid networks where anarchists coordinates across borders to support refugees, disaster relief, and addigenous land struggles. Anarchist networks, contrary to popular belief often extended beyond Europe into North Africa, Asia and Latin America, where anti colonial and labor struggles intertwined

with anarchist thought. If you're curious, by the way, about the anarchist histories of Egypt or the rest of Latin America, they could check out my series on it right here on the canappen Air podcast. And if you've listened to that series, you'll know that because anarchists were constantly persecuted, exile became a defining experience which further reinforced the internationalism. Folks like Michail Bi Cunan, Pieter Kropotkin, and Erikomana Testa

moved across continents, spreading anarchist ideas and connecting struggles. Mal test in particular was basically a common San Diego. He touched multiple continents over the course of his life. So bout the late nineteenth century, anarchists like Groulph Rocker developed an alternative to both statist nationalism and liberal cosmopolitanism, which sorts of balance cultural diversity with global solidarity from below.

Rocker argued that people should be free to maintain their cultural traditions without being bound to the state or nationalist identity. So liberal Costopolitanism was pushing a global order through state

led interventions, international institutions, and legal frameworks. And while this form of Costopolitanism has led to some games on people in human rights, international refugee protections, and anti genocide treaties, well, for one, we see the failures of these institutions in practice daily, and for two, they ultimately reinforced the state power that creates so much harm rather than dismantling it.

The UN and the WTO often uphold the interest of powerful states above and before the international laws and obligations. Whilst sideline and grassroots movements, while liberal Costopolitanism sits on its hands waiting for elit driven reforms to the system, anarchists engage in direct action to support migrants and other

marginalized folks without waiting for such reform. I have to give a shout out here, of course, to the No Borders network, and also a shout out to the work that you do, James on the side.

Speaker 1

Thank you. Yeah, yeah, I've see a lot more people than me doing.

Speaker 8

It of course. So the sad part is, even if it started with some noble ideal the concept of liberal cost of politanism today doesn't so much manifest in the freedom of people, but more so in the freedom of markets and money, the globalization of markets and money. So we will bring McDonald's and Netflix to your country, but you can't come to our country, or will kill you.

Speaker 11

Yeah, that's about it.

Speaker 9

It was really interesting to like the moment I sort of became aware of libertarian left politics was in the early two thousands in the context of the movement against like the G eight as it was then and at the time it would be referred to in the legacy media as like anti globalization right, which I don't think it ever was right by definition, it was very global, like you had people from all around the world tending these protests and rallies and speeches as such, Like it

was a very global movement. The problem was not with globalization costopolitanism internationalism. It was with the nature of neoliberal capitalist globalization, which let capital move and stop people from moving.

Speaker 8

Exactly. It's some old opposition sugg as the free reign of exploitas across the.

Speaker 9

Low Yeah, exactly, we let people take their money and employ people at lower wages, but God forbid those people ever want better for themselves or attempt to come somewhere where they can materially benefit themselves doing the same labor in a different nation, for instance.

Speaker 8

Yeah, And to be honest with you, I've never really been a respect of borders. I think they're just I think they are really really blatantly foolish imposition. I don't even think you need to be a radical to see the issue with this idea that your sor one point has to determine your entire future.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that some.

Speaker 8

People in the past could cut up the earth and then decide where you can roam freely.

Speaker 9

Yeah, I think anyone. I see a lot more from people who are not by any means radical or even on the left, like this, like within Europe, right within the Shanngen area, which the UK has decided to remove itself from for reasons that are largely racism, Like we could move freely. When I grew up, my identity and experience was much more European than necessarily British. Right, I could go for the weekend to Spain if I wanted to, or France, and flights were cheap then.

Speaker 1

So it did.

Speaker 9

Like I used to get on Friday night, take a train to Belgium and raise my bike in Belgium and come back on Sunday night, very very often, and like you see it here too in San Diego, where like the border is just a line and a delay. But

for most people, like we were a very binational community. Unfortunately, the one way that that manifests itself is that the cost of living in San Diego compares to the average wage is vastly disparate because we have this over pressure valve where like people can't afford it here, they can live across the border where the cost of living is cheaper, and that allows people to exploit working class people in both contexts sadly.

Speaker 8

Right, Yeah, as you mentioned the UK, by the way, I'm not sure if you've heard the news, but trend Ad has recently been imposed visa requirements by the UK.

Speaker 1

Fuck sake.

Speaker 8

Yeah really, thankfully we still have Shangani area access. Yeah, but just recently the UK was like, due to yeah, the usual excuse people abusing the asylum seeking system that they're not removed of visa exemption. So our colonizers have now decided that you know, we don't want you to move free in our country. We want you to pay. And visas are not cheap Theyan ever cheap, especially when there's no guarantee other than being accepted. Yep, it makes it all the more frustrating.

Speaker 9

Yeah, and like this just comes after the British government attempting to deport Afro Caribbean migrant kmes, part of what we call the wind Rush generation, which is just one of the most disgusting and like, yeah, it just it just wanted one of the most venopathetic things I've ever seen a government do, Like these people who the UK asked to come so that it could rebuild this economy after Second World War, and then taking advantage of the fact that at that time there was no process for

regularitation and then trying to deport these people who have lived their whole lives in the UK.

Speaker 1

It's just horrific.

Speaker 8

Yeah, it is. It's horrific, it's frustrating, it's infury, it's in really yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it makes me really angry.

Speaker 9

Like if we didn't have a wind Rest generation, not that like you need like popular music to justify their existence as part of our community and they should be able to stay. But we wouldn't have punk music if we wouldn't have scar music. We like so much of what is like integral to even like quote unquoite British culture. It actually came from these people because they are British and they belong there.

Speaker 1

Just as much as anyone else.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 9

I used to teach a class about music and colonial culture and colonialism, which is why that comes to mind.

Speaker 8

I actually missed an opportunity to go to the UK earlier this year. I didn't want to pay the cost to fly to go at that point in time. I deeply regrets it because I'm like I could have gone. Honestly, I think if you're the UK and your your country has stolen so much like I think the UK has the least right or justification out of any country if you had to concede that a country should be lost.

Speaker 3

And I don't.

Speaker 8

I don't give any country that concession. But if you had to give that concession, you could be last to receive that concession as far as I'm concerned. You don't get to go on roam across the entire planet and then shut yourself off. Yeah, you don't get to go on steel and pill fall from across the world, shuffle it all into your national museum and then block people from access in it.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 9

It is just like it's just the most clear and pathetic like two level standard or whatever, and it like it's I mean, the UK has a very I'm sorry you didn't get to visit in one sense, and I'm sure we have lots of listeners who are in the UK. Every time I'm home, I feel this like profound sense of like post colonial melancholy that the UK it's just sort of it's getting worse and worse and worse.

Speaker 1

And the way.

Speaker 9

Britain is responding is with our government blaming everyone else and like trying to strip posterity. Yeah, stealing everything they can just mass Yeah.

Speaker 8

Yeah, I think that frustration for me as well as that it's not to watch the country itself, although I would have loved to have visited like Scotland and you know, we Ls and that kind of thing, but and all the stuff there is to see in London. But the biggest frustration for me is that it's a it's a connection point. You know, when you impose a visa like that,

you block people's connections other areas. One of the few direct flights outside of this hemisphere you know, to the European and African hemisphere is through a flight to the UK, and so by adding that in position, it's like it's like the world feels like it's being closed.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, you can see that.

Speaker 8

One more where there was almost a time in the recent past where it felt like or the world was opening up to people, you know, with the internet, the rise of the Internet, and then you had, you know, the introduction of things like the Shangan Agreement. Our access the Shangan area was fairly recent. I think it was twenty fifteen we got that access. Yeah, okay, But to go from that point to like just so quickly, you know,

the tide shifts. So now there's extremely hostile global order towards something as fundamental as the movement of people.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's it, definitely.

Speaker 9

We definitely are entering it in like an era where things are becoming more closed off again. Then many of us grew up with right, many of us. You know, I saw what most of my experience that I can remember was being able to move freely through Europe and that's not the case anymore for British as citizens. Yeah, Like it's getting visas and everything else is getting harder.

And harder to move around the world, and despite the Internet somewhat connecting us like, our physical mobility is certainly much more limited.

Speaker 8

Indeed, I think the idea of cosmopolitanism, getting back to it, I think it's valuable. I think, you know, the idea that we have obligations to others beyond just our mediate affiliations is important. You know that human diversity is going

to be valued, not just tolerated. That that's fantastic. Carl Levy, an anarchist scholar who wrote two pieces on cosmopolitanism that a link in the show notes, has argued that anarchism's history offers a third way between the hierarchical globalism of liberal cosmopolitanism, which relies on state driven global governance, and exclusionary nationalism, which weaponizes identity and borders, often in service

to the far right. And that third way that anarchism presents, not third way in the sense of fascism, third way in the sense of anarchist possibilities, is a kind of federated pluralism, the web of self organized groups that interact freely without a central authority. This version isn't just theoretical. We've seen it in recent history through antiglobalization protests, the occupying movement, the Square movements in Egypt, Spain and beyond,

and so flawed. They show the potential, not yet fully realized, for diverse place based struggles that remain connected through mutuality and transnational solidarity. We have to avoid this sort of abstract universalism that can be found in cosmopolitan thought. We must incorporate decolonial struggles and crown cosmopolitan practice in the

voluntary cooperation of people acted in solidarity across differences. Ultimately, the question isn't whether anarchists should engage a cosmopolitanism, because they always have. The real question is how anarchists can cultivate a cosmopolitanism that is truly liberatory when the connect struggles without eraise in difference, foster solidarity without enforcing uniformity, and builds a world where cooperation and not domination, defines

our relationships. That's what happened today. All power to all the people.

Speaker 3

Peace, dark woke is back. Ten more years of liberal supremacy, bankers in control in the great Nation of Canada. This is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis, I'm joined by James Stout. We are discussing the twenty twenty five Canadian election, which I maybe slightly exaggerated in the opening there. But the election did happen yesterday or two days ago.

Whenever you're listening to this, I was up all day on on CBC and on Elections Dot c A checking in on all the charts and all the stats to see how this how this kind of upset election went, and oh boy, did it did it go? James? How much do you do you know about Canada and elections?

Speaker 9

But both of these things are things that I have some knowledge about. I've been to Canada twice. That's a fellow Commonwealth member.

Speaker 3

I guess, yeah, we are both citizens of the Commonwealth. So there we go.

Speaker 5

Just kind of have the Queen on the money. Queen is dead, dead.

Speaker 3

Queen Queen is dead, but yes, we do have Queen on money money.

Speaker 1

So that's another thing I understand.

Speaker 3

We have a parliamentary system like like yeah, liket do I say England or like Britain or UK.

Speaker 5

It's a yeah, it's a United Kingdom I think would be the institute that Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Speaker 3

Well we have one of those two, but it's less confusing because it's just one country. We don't try to be three countries like like you in the UK, Britain in England did.

Speaker 5

Where a continent, let a mini continent. That's what we're going for. We've left Europe where we run away to the Caribbean slowly.

Speaker 3

Oops. Yeah, luckily Canada is doing just fine. Debatable, but certainly this election has has gone probably slightly better for global stability in stopping the advance of far at populism than certainly what it looked a few months ago. Yeah, for people wh don't know, Yes, Canada has a parliamentary system. People do not elect the prime minister directly. They elect the MP in their district, which is called a writing.

It's a first past the post system, so whoever gets the most votes in each writing they get their representatives. Since to Parliament, the party with the most representatives they take control of the government and that is who the Prime Minister is. And the next Prime Minister of Canada will be Mark Karney, who assumed the prime minister rule like last month, winning the Liberal election after Justin Trudeau

resigned in January. And before we get into some of the results, at first a little bit of an election. Kind of background. So Liberals have been in power for nearly a decade, slowly getting less and less popular as the cost of living has risen. Less election in twenty twenty one, the Liberals kept their minority government, but the leader of their party, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, continued

to decline in popularity. By the end of twenty twenty four's approval rating was just twenty two percent or net negative fifty two. Conservatives were up twenty five points in the polls. It was a near certainty that they would sweep the next election. Trudeau announced his resignation on January sixth, kind of the January sixth of Canada, if you think about it. Former banker Mark Karney won the party election

in March of twenty twenty five. Carney quickly called for an election to write off the peak of anti Trump sentiment sweeping across Canada. This was following Trump's talk of annexing Canada and the global trade war and tariffs directed at the American neighbor upstairs, next door, I don't know, yeah, downstairs south, No from America. It's a oh I see yeah, okay, yeah from yeah, got it. Understand, which is maybe a northern standpoint, but who cares.

Speaker 1

Now.

Speaker 3

This election or an election, would have happened by October twenty twenty five regardless, but calling it early was a smart move by Liberals as this was the first time in three years that they had led in the polls. Support for other third parties like the Keebuquad Bloc and the National Democratic Party the NDP had slowly been shifting towards the Liberals and we saw this in the results

Monday night. At this point, the Liberals are projected to win one hundred and sixty eight seats, falling barely short of the one hundred and seventy two majority. There's still, as a time of recording, still a possible path for them gaining a majority government, but it's fairly unlikely. It'll probably be a minority government. The Conservatives have one one hundred and forty four seats, the Blackabiquah twenty three, and the NDP a measly seven, with the Green Party snagging one.

Liberals also secured the largest vote share, forty three point six percent of the vote compared to the Conservatives forty one point four percent, though because of a vote efficiency basically how spread apart certain votes are. This has still led to much more seats for the Liberals than the Conservatives. Right, if you have more Conservatives voting in a district that's going to go conservative anyway, those extra votes don't necessarily

mean there's going to be more representation in Parliament. That's the vote efficiency idea.

Speaker 5

Yeah, plus plus supposed to is a very bad system as electoral systems go. It leads to an awful lot of votes not counting for any representation. Like, for instance, to Garrison Davis, party could have fifty one percent of votes.

Speaker 1

In all writing and.

Speaker 5

I could be there at forty nine and I would get zero MPs base.

Speaker 3

Hey sounds fine.

Speaker 5

Sounds fine by me, Garrison Davis in control.

Speaker 3

Well, this is kind of what happens in Canada. The election system in Canada is pretty swayed towards the Liberals because of how much more dispersed they are versus you know, most Conservative supporters in the Western provinces Saskatchewan, Alberta in BC and a growing presence in Ontario. But yeah, the Liberals kind of always get a bit of a boost in the election. Now, we did have record high early turnout in Canada, seven point three million people cast their

vote early during Easter week. The full turnout is higher than it was the past few elections, but it matches pretty much to the twenty fifteen election. So to get a majority government you need one hundred and seventy two seats. This allows you to not have to worry about like no confidence votes which trigger new elections, and you don't

need to work with other parties to pass legislation. Now, this will probably be a minority government, with the Libs having to work with a small number of remaining in DP and block seats to run the government, which one could consider a good thing in terms of being pushed maybe towards some better policies rather than just like liberal supremacy. But it also in its government will be more unstable and it kind of gives the Conservatives more room to wiggle,

So it's definitely a mixed bag. As reporting first came in for Atlantic Canada, it showed that this would be a tighter race than what the Liberals were hoping for. During election night, it seemed Conservatives were on track to pick up two seats in Newfoundland, though in the end the Liberal incumbent barely kept their seat, beating the Conservative challenger by twelve votes. In Terra Nova the Peninsulas. The Libs did fare much better in Quebec, though they flipped

eleven seats. This was the best performance by Liberals in Quebec in years now. Conservatives gained some seats from the Liberals in Ontario under Doug Ford, with Conservatives flipping seats around the Toronto suburbs. One of the biggest stories of this election was just the complete NDP collapse the progressive kind of democratic socialist New Democratic Party. They're currently projected to lose seventeen of their twenty four previously held seats.

The NDP basically gave Carny this election. Jack Met Singh lost his seat. That's the leader of the NDP. He lost his seat to Wade Chung, a Liberal, and stepped down as leader on Monday night. Part of what makes this such a big setback for the NDP is that because they failed to win at least twelve seats, they actually lose official party status in Parliament. Parties have to win at least twelve seats to be recognized as an

official party in the House of Commons. Official parties get to have offices in Parliament, extra staff, They get to ask questions legislative sessions and can sit on committees. Now, the NDP did previously lose party status in nineteen ninety three, winning only nine seats in that election, but this performance was slightly worse, hitting only seven. So this is going

to be a big shake up. The NDP is going to have to be forced to rebuild, which is maybe necessary based on kind of a degree of NDP stagnation the past decade. They're kind of caught in like twenty seventeen politics in my opinion, though saying did lead them to pass some significant legislation and progressive policies do have a degree of popularity in Canada. The NDP was polling about the same as the Liberals just three months ago.

The movement that we're seeing is from NDP voters scared of Polyev and Trump, so they moved to Carney to avoid splitting the left vote, as Carney was seen as more capable of beating Polyiev than the NDP leader Sing and certainly justin Trudeau. Now, Funnily enough, some of this quote unquote STRICTGIC voting actually did end up splitting the vote in a place like b seen specifically Vancouver, which

recently has gone strongly NDP. But this year the Conservatives were able to snag three seats because enough previous NDP voters ended up going liberal in an attempt to gain a Liberal majority, but that resulted in neither the NDP nor the Liberal candidate actually individually getting enough votes to win the riding. Let's talk about vote share compared to the last twenty twenty one election, so Liberals did fairly

well this election, especially compared to previous ones. They gained over ten points compared to the last election in twenty twenty one. Conservatives also didn't do badly actually like they actually did. Okay, this certainly wasn't the result they were wanting, but they did not do bad. They gained over seven

and a half points this race. Reliable Conservative voters still voted conservative and they were able to siphon off some support from other parties, with Conservatives doing slightly better than what polling predicted, but a lot of very close races across key districts. Now where all those extra votes or vote movement is coming from is all of the third parties, the Green Party and the Black EPIQUA both dropped over

a point. The far right People's Party dropped four points and the NDP dropped eleven point six huge huge losses for the NDP. Most of those voters probably going liberal, although some may just not have voted. One of the more interesting parts about this election is that the Conservative Party leader Pierre Polliev lost his parliamentary seat. He lost to Liberal Bruce Fanjoy by about four thousand votes four

point six percent of the vote. So this is going to probably cause a bit of an upset in the Conservative Party. There might be some maternal in over whether Polyiev should continue as party leader, though he did not step down from that position during his concession speech Monday night. James, do you have do you have any thoughts here before we pivot to ads.

Speaker 5

It wouldn't be such a like scene, as such a humiliation for the Conservatives if it wasn't for all the polling until maybe like a couple of months ago. Right.

Speaker 3

Yes, The reason why it's such an upset is because they were like destined to win, as almost like divinely written into fate like three months ago, and the fact that they fumbled this is gonna be like a massive, like historical footnote, not even a footnote. This is like a historical topic. Is how the Conservatives fumbled this election?

Speaker 9

Yeah, like people, the thing is that the Liberals want despite people having been pissed off with them for a long time and wanting something different. Yeah yeah, because people would just like mad at Trump.

Speaker 3

And we will talk more about the background of the lead up to this race and in those dynamics that James mentioned in the next segment after these ads. Okay, to talk more about the lead up to this race and Trump's influence on this election, I talk with Lance from the Serfs, of fellow Canadian who talks about politics just as much as I do. So here is that interview that I recorded just a few hours before the polls closed in Canada.

Speaker 10

Hey, my name is Lance. I run a number of different channels, usually under the banner of the Serfs. There's YouTube, dot Com, Slash, the Surf Times, and at the serf TV. On most other social media, I cover news, politics, internet slop, usually from a dumpster fire like perspective.

Speaker 3

And you're Canadian importantly, Yes, I am Canadian, but I have been resigned to living in this States for quite a while. I actually just had some Canadian family visit me, and they kept making fun of me for living in the States, specifically because the States are trying to, you know, take Canadian territories seemingly. So now I'm getting a lot of hate for my Canadian family members for living in America, which is interesting.

Speaker 10

I was gonna say, it's got to be a scary time to be living in the United States as a Canadian citizen.

Speaker 3

A little bit, I am. I am dual, but we'll see how long that matters. So I want to talk talk a little bit about kind of the background of this election, because I think this is maybe the most interesting Canadian election in the past ten years, specifically because of how much the results have always felt it inevitable, but the actual results have like flip flop. Three months ago, four months ago, I'm sure that me and you may

may have predicted probably something resembling a conservative sweep. Not to put words in your mouth.

Speaker 10

Well, Minorti or Jordi government led by the Conservatives, know no question that that was where all the major polling was trending. And then the exact opposite on this roller coaster election in both directions. I think it's pretty easily explainable, especially to your American listeners who might have been wondering

what was happening. Essentially, the country had a combination of burnout on Justin Trudeau and the person who replaced Justin Trudeau, Mark Carney, effectively took the number one campaign it was the actual campaign slogan of the Conservatives away from him immediately after being crowned the new leader of the Liberal Party, which was ax the tax, which is what you know,

fascist Millhouse, who we call Pierre Polievro over here. That was his big campaign promise, the Conservatives were going to ax the carbon tax, and that had a lot of people excited, a lot of people didn't like Justin Trudeau. And then along comes Mark Carney and he takes both of those things away from the Conservatives. He's not Justin Trudeau and he acts the tax and so they had to kind of completely reset. And this was before the wild card of Trump shows up. Yeah, which of course

now is airing not only Canada but the world. I would say like most countries now are kind of having to completely reset how they think and want to do geopolitics into the future because of his policies.

Speaker 3

Well, and I know, like a decent chunk of the Alberta economy is now in great jeopardy because they can't self fuck Trudeau merchandise.

Speaker 10

Which was propping up their entire economy outside of the oil.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Well, you know, if you ignore the oil, which will probably be fine. Yeah, yeah, I guess you could talk a little bit about kind of what led to this universal hatred of Justin Trudeau in like the past like like five years, just like ever so briefly.

Speaker 10

Yeah, for conservatives, a lot of it really became increasingly more intense with COVID, and I think internationally there was an association with very basic safety protocols and tyranny. So I guess some people the United States and Canada both saw the idea of wearing a mask gra having to wash their hands as some sort of dictatorship akin to some of the worst war crimes ever committed on any population.

That made a schism happen, where a de sentiment kind of really started accelerating towards less of you know, blaming Trudeau for everything, kind of like Obama that used to be a joke, like a Trudeau to actual fuck Trudeau merchandise, and the idea of you know, Trudeau being an enemy of the state and a communist dictator that was on the right side of things. On the left side of things, everyone got burnt out from Trudeau because the performative progressive

politics of his entire character. He was very vocal about standing up for a lot of issues that on one end he would you know, pretend to care about, such as indigenous rights, land backs, stuff like that, and then he would be suing the survivors of residential schools in federal court to try and prevent them from getting too

much money from the federal government. So there was a lot of Trudeau seems to performatively enjoy being perceived as someone who's enlightened and progressive and trying to steer you know, the society and a good direction where his policies are effectively exacerbating wealth and equality very rapidly, because that's effectively what you get with neoliberal centrists, right.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I mean, like to go back to that COVID thing. Like I was in Calgary in like spring of twenty twenty two, and I was getting like made fun of in like bars and clubs for like wearing a mask at that point in time, like and that is that is Alberta. But yeah, no, that was definitely like strong. We certainly saw degrees of that here in the States as well, but yeah, you know, it's a little bit

of that. Like general anti incumbent sentiment was growing so much last year, which which we saw levied against the Democrats in the States and certainly against the Liberals. And the way that the Liberals in Canada have kind of been able to maneuver away from that in the way that like the Democrats haven't is super interesting. It's not necessarily like replicable, especially for US politics, but it's still

as interesting, I guess. Like on the Conservative side, their leadership changed in twenty twenty two.

Speaker 10

Right, yeah, I think so it was it was twenty two or twenty three, but I believe it was around them.

Speaker 3

That's when Holly they became leader of the Conservative Party, which is like you know, closed ranks and like coalesced the past ten to five years or so, and they've been they've been gaining a large it had been gaining you know, a large degree of popularity the past two three years, not necessarily because of who their party leader is, but because they are simply not the Liberal Party at least That's kind of what it seemed like to me, because like, approval ratings for Paul of Aara's never been

like great, but the Conservative Party has still been gaining popularity, at least previous to the past few months.

Speaker 10

Yeah, I don't want to play, you know, give the far right any kind of kudos or points, but I think from an analytical standpoint, something that people should realize is that within the last i'd say year and a half or so, Pierre was really really effective at doing faux populism in a way that a lot of people

were starting to get very worried about. Yeah, and that he was starting to see a lot about the working class, you know, the housing crisis in the country and the fact that the Liberals are out of touch elites who only care about enriching themselves, and you know a lot obviously, you'd have a lot of the right wing kind of nebulous terms like woke ideology being tied into that kind

of stuff. But he was for a long time kind of starting to gain a lot of ground and traction as more of a moderate style conservative who was concerned with helping the working class, which is astonishing considering the man is a lifelong politician like that, that is who he is. He was making fun of people like the leader of the Social Democrats here, drug bet Singh. He was making fun of him for just working for a pension and not even caring about the people or the

working class. The man is never marched with the union. I'm talking about Pierre. He's never marched with the union. He is a you know, his voting track record is decidedly anti worker. It's decidedly exacerbating wealth in the quality. Has worked his entire life to make houses more expensive.

But marketing and branding really work, especially like you know, there's compilation clips of him saying things that are JK rallying tier in terms of both their nonsensicalness, like talking about how electricity is crafted by harnessing the power of the lightning bolts into the wire that the electrician holds up.

Speaker 3

Very cool, Yeah, very cool for like powers.

Speaker 10

I'm on board, but like, unfortunately that's just not how we usually generate power in this but like it works on some people. They like to see a man who fakes owlean like different kinds of wood and tools, you know, like at Tucker Carlson esque.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I've got a wood shop.

Speaker 10

In my back and it's like that, Well, no, I think this is the first time you've ever seen that lumber, sir. But as you know, again, some voters, they really started his rebranding in that respect actually worked pretty successful for yeah, the last year and a half against Trudeau.

Speaker 3

Yeah, he had a pretty substantial makeover the past the past few years to make himself like presentable in this way. Yeah, very like Carlson esque, very like Ben Shapiro goes to

home depot and gets some wood. It's definitely pulling from that vein, although maybe a bit more successfully and like, at least from my perspective, it feels like the degree to which Pierre kind of hitched himself to like the Trump populist wagon the past few years, especially like with like sentiments like growing in like the Western provinces, that kind of mirrors some of the Trumpian rhetoric, that type

of stuff was getting popularity. And now because he put if not all his eggs, but some of his eggs in the Trump basket, this is like backfired in like popular opinion when it comes to his ability to succeed as like a politician and like gaining support because We've seen so much anti Trump polarization based on like the fifty first state stuff based on the tariffs, and like Carnie has been able to weaponize that pretty effectively against

against Pierre absolutely like it. Initially, like the way like popularity points shifted was like by like twenty points, which was like huge. Those have gotten closer, But.

Speaker 10

I think it's one of the biggest reversals or if not the biggest reversal Incadian political history. Was the dominating lead they had from having it almost an a shirt majority to now perhaps losing to a liberal majority, which again is unheard of.

Speaker 11

Yeah.

Speaker 10

One thing that people are also kind of missing is that he also really closely started associating himself with Elon Musk prior to leader of you know, the US or whatever you want to call him, the real president of the United States. But he had a number of rallies and on the record praising Elon Musk prior to Elon Musk. This was pre Elon Musk overt Nazi era kind of more just like Nazi light era version Nazi.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 10

But around that time, Pierre was asked, like what do you think about being endorsed and praised by Elon Musk, and you know, he started making jokes about how his kids want to go to Mars, so that's pretty cute, and started talking about how he wants Elon Musk to build more factories and plants in Canada. Well that's all really coming back to hurt him now, because the very idea of there being a stronger Tesla presence in the

country is decidedly rejected by the populace. Like, you know, the protests that are going on in the United States against Tesla's are going on here as well. Maybe not as large scale or perhaps as fire based, but a lot of them are occurring here, and so like that I think is also really hurting him. So there's been this really funny, strange political dance that's kind of happened in the last couple of months where everyone is trying to say Trump loves you more. It's like a circular

fine squad. Like at one point the Conservatives were trying to market themselves to saying Trump was making fun of Pierre in this clip, so look he hates Pierre more. Yeah, And then another it was like oh no, no, no, look he's talking a lot of smack about Mark Karney. He hates Mark Carney Moore, so that that has actually become a very strong dynamic of the Canadian election is who exactly does Trump like Moore? And that's not going to be good for you if it turns out you're the one.

Speaker 3

I guess I'd like to talk a little bit now at the end here about Mark Karney himself and kind of what this means for the Liberal Party. He was the Governor of the Bank of Canada starting in to US in eight then he became governor of the Bank of England and managed them through the Brexit fiasco. Brexit was not his idea. He was not pro Brexit, but he just had and to be holding the reins of

of the Bank of England during that time period. Returned to Canada, has served as like an informal advisor to Trudeau and now is the is the leader of the Liberal Party. He's a very I don't know, he tries to like project this sense of like he's like a like like a reasonable man, which which which he you know, in some ways is like he's like he's like kind of boring. He works in banking, right, like he's he's not like overtly charismatic, but he doesn't have like the

the like youthful, like bumbling presence of like Trudeau. Like he just he seems he seems kind of basic. I don't know.

Speaker 10

Uh yeah, I mean that's a good way putting it. Yeah, you're you're totally right. I mean we're talking about a lifelong banker. I mean, he's even worked for gold Mill Sacks.

He has a yes, a very long and sordid Uh well, I mean, in some view, it depends on your worldview, right, if you were as a person who thinks that the solution going forward, especially in the face of actual manifesting fascism, is more neoliberal policies, austerity and measures, then you might be very, very excited to perhaps get your own, like honestly Joe Biden style election here, where we are once again going to be choosing centre to center right economic

policies that are going to undoubtedly exacerbate wealth and equality more. They are not going to solve the housing crisis. The housing crisis of Canada, while it is portrayed constantly as complex, really goes down to fundamentally, there are a lot of houses, but there are also a lot of houses being built

in luxury markets that most people can't afford. Speculation is not addressed, and so speculation usually gets blamed on foreign investors, which in turn kind of brings up the whole immigration fears, which are very successful. But with Carney, I mean, I don't see anything dramatic. Not only did he acts the carbon tax when he was in power initially, and that was again, I think, strategically to remove the power the

Conservatives had on that policy. He also is getting rid of the capital gains tax again is just going to be funneling more money towards the ultra wealthy in Canada. So the problem for me is that, if anything, I'm happy that Pierre it looks like he might not win. I don't know what by the time people are listening

to this, what the results are. But I also recognize that this does not solve these crises for simply putting band aids on a pause before you know, finally a Trump of our own gets elected and then yes, people after the facts start realizing, oh my god, he's doing a lot of the horrifying things that he promised he would do. He's actually trying to enact Project twenty twenty five,

all these terrible things are happening. Well, I mean, if this was an election where it looked like Pierre was going to win, I would say he is going to follow through on all the aggressive measures and more that he's promising right now, which include, you know, suspending the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to people that he deems should be worthy of receiving freedoms, specifically because, like Donald Trump, he wants to begin silencing people for their

speech in relation to protesting against Israel and their genocide of Palacidians, especially if you are an immigrant toward someone on a student visa, and these policies, you can see they're a disaster after the fact, and people I think wake up to them like Americans are right now when

they realize Trump's actually doing it. But you know, make no mistake, it doesn't require, you know, too long of the increase and we ought wealth and equality for people to look for an answer because they're not being listened to by the libs.

Speaker 2

Are the liberals here? No?

Speaker 3

It is interesting that how much this election has almost mirrored the American two party system with the block QEBUQUA as well as the MDP, like probably most likely right this is before the results, but probably going to be losing seats to both the Liberals and the Conservatives. Yes, and like I think like a big part of this election I think is similarly looking back in the past ten years, is how much I think the NDP is frankly fumbled and probably needs to do a major overhaul

to really regain trust in the voters. And yeah, it's going to be tough because I think, like for the progressives in Canada, it's kind of been convenient for the Liberals to have a minority government because then they need to work with ENDPT.

Speaker 1

And they've gotten the law accomplished.

Speaker 10

To be fair to Chuck Means, and you know, they're for American listeners, the Social Democratic Party of Canada, they accomplished some great things working in a minority government setting, including a pharmacare program, including a federal feeding program for children, a school lunch program, you know, working on paid families sickly even extending it. So they've done a lot of

good and sort of enacting progressive policies. But it's the Liberals who are also equally as good at taking credit for all the things that people have come to really like such as having dental care for the first time and having cheaper farmercare and stuff like that.

Speaker 3

Thanks to Lance again for talking with me about the Canadian election. It's time for one more ad break and we'll come back to discuss the future of the Canadian government. Okay, we are back. Let's talk a little bit more about Trump's undue influence in the twenty twenty five Canadian election, because it is a little bit for a foreign leader to be exerting this much influence in the votes of

you know, a separate country. Now, this was an election that was previously about liberal stagnation and wanting change in economic policy. This was kind of leading the Conservative popular support the past two three years. And very suddenly this whole election changed and it became about who Canada trusted to oppose Trump and who Canadians wanted to be like the face of Canada in this new like global trade war and this fight against a hostile neighbor. And Trump

did not help this. On election morning, Trump released his statement basically endorsing himself as the leader of Canada.

Speaker 5

Oh great, saying quote.

Speaker 3

Good luck to the great people of Canada. Elect the man who has the strength and wisdom to cut your taxes in half in increase their military power for free to the highest level in the world. Have your car, steel, aluminum, lumber, energy, and all our businesses quadruple in size with the zero tariffs or taxes. If Canada becomes the cherished fifty first state of the United States of America, oh no more.

Artificially drawn the line from a many years ago. Look how beautiful this land mass would be, free access with no border, all positives, with no negatives. It was meant to be. America can no longer subsidize Canada with hundreds of billions of dollars a year that we've been spending in the past. It makes no sense unless Canada is a state man.

Speaker 1

Trump the border abolitionist.

Speaker 3

This is the rhetoric that really produced a liberal victory. And Trump did kind of back off this stuff in the past few weeks. And it's very funny to see him go like full throttle the morning of the election in case anyone was like on the fence about whether they really was worrying about like Trump. This just this

says like such a crazy hell Mary. And we can see this in some polling stats on Trump's Inauguration day, the Conservatives in Canada were leading forty four point eight percent in the polls, compared to the Liberals twenty one point nine percent and the NDP's seventeen point six But as Liberals searched for a new leader and as Trump

took office, the Conservative lead slowly started to slip. The President began referring to Canada as the fifty first state, called the prime minister quote unquote governor, and threatened to impose huge tariffs to stop a non existent fentanyl smuggling crisis through the Canadian US border. By April, the Conservative lead had fully flipped over to the Liberals, who rose to forty four percent in the polls, Conservatives falling to thirty seven percent and the NDP around eight point five.

And these are pretty close to the final results. This number is very accurate for liberal support. Conservatives got a little bit more than thirty six percent of the vote and NDP got a little bit less than this eight point five. This is according to data from CBC and ABAGUS. This was very much a leader's election, meaning that one of the biggest factors driving votes was who people wanted the prime minister to be and Mark Carney is much more popular despite being kind of an unknown figure, which

kind of actually helps in popularity. Carney's was so much more popular than Poliev. The past three months, Carney has steadily gained in popularity, getting forty six percent approval, whereas Polyiev has slowly declined in popularity. I talked about this a little bit with Lance, but the degree to which he's aligned himself with this like anti woke, like far right populism rhetoric really bit him in the ass these

past few months. He would have done fine against Trudeau, certainly, he was really writing auth that like anti incumbent wave, but he is not like a loved figure across Canadian politics, even among some conservatives. The two most important factors driving Canadians vote, according to Abacus, was reducing cost of living

and dealing with Donald Trump. Younger voters seem to be more focused on cost of living and changing policy around fifty seven percent of voters eighteen to twenty nine, while older voters around fifty six percent of boomers were more concerned about stopping Trump. The very first topic in the Canadian Prime minister debate was tariffs and US threats to Canadian sovereignty. This is seen as like a very real issue up there, and like hatred against the US is

genuinely growing, Like people are very upset. Canadians are very upset about what Trump and the US has been doing. It's being seen as like a genuine like intense betrayal. The by Canada movement's been gaining a lot of support with people trying to only purchase Canadian products and this has resulted in a real cultural moment in Canada united against the United States.

Speaker 5

It's genuinely remarkable, Like the Canada of the US have always had pretty good relations for it. Well not a waste they have.

Speaker 3

Well ever since that one, that one, yeah, yeah, no one time, yeah, but the things they have improved it in and like it's what's also remarkable is it seems to be having an effect in Australia as well.

Speaker 5

And if you've seen that, but like I think I saw an ad the other day that just said, doesn't wants to make Australia like America, like straight up, you know this is our Trump and he wile to align with Trump. Like yeah, it's incredible.

Speaker 3

The degree which Trump doing this global trade war has catalyzed negative sentiments around this, like far right populism, global global wave that we've been seeing has really been a boon to neoliberalch enemy the past few mins.

Speaker 9

You'll see like any I mean obviously, like I take voter interviews in like legacy media with a huge pinch of salt right, it's pretty easy to find someone who wants to say what you want them to say. And often, you know, certainly some of the US interviews are just been ridiculous, but like people saying, Oh, I just want to go back to how it was, Like I want to go back to you know, the things that we're

used to. And obviously Trump is trending that for a lot of people, and like in a very negative way. And so you and as Garrison said, like the politics of personality is becoming more important, like voting specifically for individuals who they think will have like the negotiating ability or just bravery or like whatever it is to stand up to Trump.

Speaker 3

Right, Yeah, And like in Canada, I think it's less personality driven, like actually Canadians are very against personality politics. Yeah, I guess it's more like competency driven. And this is where Carney was really able to succeed. It's because he's not a compelling personality, but he is like a professional, and that is why he was elected. Carneie helped Canada whether the two US and eight financial collapse better than

almost any other Western nation. He is genuinely good at his job of being like a neoliberal, like bank economy guy, and specifically with these tariffs. This is the guy that you want to handle this global trade crisis because this is like what he has done his entire life. He's never been elected to office before. He is just an

economy guy. And we saw this in like head to heead matchups with Carnie versus Polier, rating certain things like finding common ground to solve a dispute, where carne was twelve points ahead, standing up to a bully, Carney's eight points ahead, managing household expenses Carney six points ahead. Sitting beside you on a long airplane flight, Carneie six points ahead. Captaining a ship through a rough storm Carnee five points ahead.

Speaker 5

That's what you need, You need a seafarer five ahead on seafaring.

Speaker 3

Hosting the best party Carney one point ahead. And you will see.

Speaker 9

It's this reminiscent of that like was it like Tim the plumber shit from like the bush Pailian election, like the people I would want to have a beer with.

Speaker 3

Well, this is the The funny thing is is the Conservatis are still better in like those types of like physical things like putting out a kitchen fire, polyev is up to and putting up a shelf. Polyev's up six. This's the only two ones specured where the conservative candidate edged out the liberals is putting out a kitchen fire and putting up a shelf. But all other things like solving disputes, standing up to bowlies, managing like expenses like

household expenses. Carnee Carne came out. I'm gonna read a few lines from Carney's celebration acceptance speech here, and I'm just gonna read them and not play clips because he blends English and French and that's gonna be annoying. No offense to our French speakers out there. Yeah, Garrison, it's gonna be annoying to play for a podcast. It's not gonna do for quote. America wants our land, our resources, our water, our country. These are not idle threats. President

Trump is trying to break us. So America can own us that will never happen. We are once again at one of those hinge moments of history. Our old relationship with the United States, relationship based on steadily increasing integration, is over. The system of open global trade anchored by the United States, a system that Canada has relied on since the Second World War, a system that, while not perfect, has helped deliver prosperity for a country for decades, is over.

But it is also our new reality. We are over the shock of the American betrayal, but we should never forget the lessons. We have to look out for ourselves and above all, we have to take care of each other. When I sit down with President Trump, it will be to discuss the future economic and security relationship between two sovereign nations, and it will be with our full knowledge that we have many, many other options than the United

States to build prosperity for all Canadians. We will strengthen our relations with reliable partners in Europe, Asia and elsewhere.

And if the United States no longer wants to be in the forefront of the global economy, Canada will quote and yeah, this is the type of rhetoric that's going to be I think successful in Canada right now and probably in the next few decades, is Canada's going to try to take the spot that America used to used to hold as like the center of like global power, especially with climate change, with you know, crop crops slowly

slowly needed to be moved north. I think as as as global warm progresses, Canada is in a spot to be a like a new emerging like world power. And with the degree to which America is just kind of giving up that role under Trumpable, someone like Carney is very interested in in gaining that that degree of superiority. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna read a few comments from from our listeners who I asked to send over their

thoughts on the Canadian election. And yes, this is a limited sample, sask It's based on the politics of people who listen to this show. But I still think there's there's some interesting points here outlining what's happened in this election. Quote Mark Karney might not be far enough left for my tastes, but he immediately made gas cheaper a tangible

improvement for my brokeass. And with the way he's been pulling, I'm settling on voting for him to keep the Conservatives out with their stated anti woke agenda, pritesis, bigoted, not like I have much choice. I would have loved to be picking here about my vote, but I don't feel confident in the NDP or the Greens to come out on top of the cons Another person said, quote, I can't believe the country seems to be rallying around a

neoliberal central banker in the face of American fascism. But our resentment to the US seems to kind of override all other political considerations. So much of the way this election is panning out is a display of our culture's profound inability to take necessary risks. We're running scared to the serious administrator, man in the blind hope things will be safe and normal again. When he fails, will take

a late and stupid risk again unquote. And this is something I've seen other people express, is like with this kind of Obama esque, you know, serious man in charge, this like return of neoliberalism. Will this just set the stage for, like the material conditions for someone like Trump to emerge in the next ten years. This is a fear that I've seen people express. I don't think it is an inevitability, because this is not America in twenty

twelve or twenty sixteen. This is Canada in twenty twenty five. The world is different, but I can understand this fear. Lastly, i'll read from one other comment or from Blue Sky quote. I understand the drive to keep the Conservative Party out of office, but I'm also terrified of what the Liberal Party will do to this country if they can keep campaigning on that very basis in perpetuity. It's good that

we will probably avoid the worst. It's terrible that progress is on hold until the Conservative Party is no longer a contender, which could take decades. I also do not expect the Liberal Party to meaningfully change the conditions that are pushing voters towards reactionary politics. To be again with

unquote so kind of a similar sentiment there. I think that the role for progressives in Canada right now is either to rebuild the NDP or infiltrate the Liberals, probably rebuilding NDP in most cases, because they are going to have to have new leadership and seriously reevaluate their strategies going forward. James any notes here. I guess, yeah, I.

Speaker 5

Think like I guess kind of to echo what a lot of those people said, Like in the US, we had Biden for four years, right, essentially because he was elected on not being Trump, and he was able to get away well, he thought he could get away with more than he actually was able to get away with as it turns out electorally, but like we were admonished to vote for the person who wasn't Trump, right, and what we got is open air detention for migrants, what we got is inflation, what we got as a genocide

in Gaza, right. And this fear that a lot of other nations in the global north right, like these neoliberal economies are feeling, is going to lead to lots of that like, yeah, we need a serious man, we needed, we need a statesman's stand up to Trump, and that's going to reinforce a one of that neoliberal orthodoxy and that's going to make it very hard to make any meaningful progress to electoral politics in those countries for the next few years, which sucks.

Speaker 3

I think this is why some people are excited about the minority government, although it is less stable. They could be swayed by some more of the progressive agendas from the NDP because they'll need NDP or block cooperation to run the government.

Speaker 5

Yeah, they can't do a by the date, which like I mean.

Speaker 3

Also like Carney isn't Biden like and the Canadian Liberal Party is not necessarily the like American Democratic Party, like.

Speaker 5

They're they're different.

Speaker 3

Stuff on Gaza is different, like that the Canadian Liberals have have restricted arms, arms trades and arms deals to Israel the past year. Carney has not thrown trans people under the bus the same way some Democrats have the past year. Like these are these are different people. I think, you know, Canada is a different country than the United States for now. Garrison and I think what we can see here is that this Canadian election, although it was close,

it still was a rejection of Trump's style politics. Most Canadians do not want Canada to go the way of America. There's there's been a subset of Canadians, especially in Alberta and and and Saskatchewan, who have been trying to push for this like mega style like Canada first rhetoric and and this was denied. I think you were seeing more support for Conservatives under Doug Ford with this more like moderate conservatism. I think that's something to like watch out

for more. But like this, this Trump style of politics was was rejected across the country. Yeah, and and and Carney was able to figure out a way to make people trust him to be a genuine like combatant against against Trump and and usher and a new a new golden age of neoliberal trade in the face of Trump's Trump's chaotic and and anti market sentiments.

Speaker 9

Hopefully it does put an end too, like this, this tendency among liberals, especially in the US but also in the UK, to like feel that they need to engage on right wing culture war talking points and like, I guess quote unquote give some ground, Like we've seen that in the UK right with with like really transfer a big ship coming out the Labor Party, And like I would hope that like people can see where this leads to and that they're not going to vote for liberal

politicians who are going to throw trans people under the bus, and like that that will be like a deciding factor in their support.

Speaker 1

But I guess that's just my hope right now. Yeah.

Speaker 3

Well, and and frankly, you know, a better liberal party or a liberal NDP coalition would would be would be willing to engage with the idea of like taking trans refugees from these extremely hostile countries sighly, which is just something they've they've not like you know, publicly talked about. But as things get worse than the States, we will we will see. So yeah, but that is what I have to say as a as a Canadian who lives in the United States, my thoughts on the Canadian election.

You know, it could have been worse.

Speaker 9

It is.

Speaker 3

It is odd to see Canada almost accidentally replicate America's two party system. So even if this was a rejection of trump'style politics, this this this climate of fear did result in replicating America's two party system, which is kind of interesting the amount of which, like the third parties lost support, with support going just towards conservatives and liberals. That is, you know, one of the big stories of this election, the the NDP blowout one of the big stories,

and poliv losing his seat. I think is is is at least, at the very least a nice cherry on top for this for this election.

Speaker 1

Whoa welcome back to it could happen here a podcast about you know it happening here, which is what we all what we all you know, we know what's happening.

Speaker 3

Yeah, well, and the it being rebellion in the here being a galaxy far far away, and then now being long long ago for this episode.

Speaker 1

Yeah we are. These are our may Day episodes and nothing could make more sense on May Day than talking about and or the new season of the show and or if you're not familiar with and Or it is a Star Wars show, and if you don't like Star Wars, or you just don't like the Disney Star Wars, if you've not enjoyed a Star Wars since you were six,

This is not that kind of thing. This is a treatise on how revolutions do, can and should work, written by people who have a deep bed of knowledge, including a degree of on the ground knowledge of what some of this looks like. And it is an immensely important piece of media to be getting out right now. And we'll start by saying Disney evil, bad corporation. I'm not saying pay them for Disney plus Torrents exist.

Speaker 3

Yeah, raise the black flag, Raise, raise the black flag.

Speaker 2

Once again.

Speaker 1

I don't care how you get this. And you know what I'll say this, I suspect the people making and Or don't really care how you get this. This has been the most financially successful show and generations. Fuck it. Get it, like, don't don't pay Disney money if you don't want to. I have no issue with that. I don't know whose login I'm using it. I haven't for years. Garrison can vouch for that. Just just watch it.

Speaker 3

Be like Cassie and Or and Liberate and Or season two from from Disney, and watch it however however you feel comfortable doing so.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, use your f.

Speaker 2

Movie is use your here's your whatever. Yeah.

Speaker 1

This is a podcast about the current season of and Or, which is coming out in three episode blocks every Tuesday. The second three episodes, we're now up to six episodes, came out yesterday as we record this Tuesday of this week, and there's two more weeks of and Or coming. So this episode we're going to be talking about episodes one through three. We should probably start with a little If you haven't watched it, go watch it. Just watch season one, and then you know, you can watch season two and

listen along with us. If you're not, if you're a crazy person who's not going to do that will summarize season one for you, which is that there's this guy who grew up on a planet that was destroyed by

the Empire. He essentially like lived as a hunter gatherer until you know, the war came to him and he was forced out of his home and grows up very angry, is taken in by some people who are kind of like petty criminals and petty almost petty rebels, you know, but not in the rebel alliance sense, just and that well, we're going to commit some crimes around the edges and

try to get by. And the show is about this guy getting inducted into a revolutionary organization run by a man named Luthen that that is simultaneously very centralized around him and also very decentralized, and that it's primarily him arming and getting information and attempting to direct cells that are themselves autonomous and often in conflict with each other, which is very realistic to how things like this start. On a historical level, everything that's happening in and Or

is based in real history. Tony Gilroy, who is the showrunner, has stated that the kind of bank robbing years of Joseph Stalin were one influence behind this, But there are a lot you can see, and in fact there's a little bit of Portland at the end of season one. There's a number of things that have influenced this show, a lot of moments in history the IRA.

Speaker 3

Some of the IRA like post al Qaeda, like prison resistance rebellion. Yes, for how terrorist cells like form underneath and.

Speaker 2

Also very explicitly he talks about this in an interview like the Revolutions podcast by Mike Duncan. Is an influence on how on how this one is?

Speaker 1

Yes, was an influence on this Yes. So that's all to set this up. We're now going to talk about what happens in episodes one, two, and three of season two. You want to summarize them, gear.

Speaker 3

Yeah, let's start with the first episode. So, undercover rebel agent Cassian Andor steals in experimental tie Avenger, crashes it on a jungle planet, and then finds himself in a sectarian split between this other rebel cell who just had like a DISASTERUS operation.

Speaker 1

Their leader got killed, so no one's really sure who should be running things.

Speaker 3

They capture Cassian because they think he's an Imperial pilot, and he tries to negotiate with them as their infighting continues. Meanwhile, Imperial intelligence agents converge to develop a plan on how to squash potential resistance on the planet Gorman as they plan to extract calkite minerals from the planet's core, potentially endangering the stability of the planet to build a dust star by the way, Yes, to build a dust star.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So what's happening is these minerals are necessary to collect the system that makes the death stars big planet destroying gun work. But at this point, basically no one knows that, and the imperial like intelligence yeah, and they're being told that it's part of an energy independence project.

Speaker 3

Mon Mathma, the senator from Tandrella who eventually becomes a rebel leader in the Star Wars movies, is helping to plan the Traadcath wedding for her daughter against Mathema's own wishes, and she runs into some difficulties with someone who helped her clean up some of her financial blemishes to help finance the rebellion. So this is most of what happens in this first episode. We have some of and Or's previous comrades and planet Ferriks are on this like farming

planet and they're nervous about potential inspection. So I guess specifically, do you have anything we want to talk about on this first episode.

Speaker 1

Yes, I want to talk about the scene where they talk about clearing out Gorman, because when they talk about mining it for this mineral that's necessary to make the Death Star, they're talking about basically doing deep fracking at the core of the planet that is going to make it uninhabitable, right Like, they're basically tearing out the core of this world that produces high quality textiles, right Like, it's famous kind of a luxury goods exporter. That's really

all they make. There's these spiders there that make a nice kind of silk. That's what the planet does. And it's got this population of people who are used to being given a lot of autonomy because they make very this nice, this like luxury product that all they're rich people like, right, So that the folks running there are public and in the early years when there was still more the public, the Empire was still more on their

republican side. Still people didn't want to talk with them too much because they make a luxury good.

Speaker 7

Right.

Speaker 1

There was a massacre there kind of early on in the Empire when Tark and the target Yeah, landed a cruiser on a bunch of protesters killing them. But other than that, it's been pretty quiet for a while. There is like a small and not super competent or armed rebel cell starting up on the planet, and they have this big meeting the Empire does, where everybody gathers at a castle with the guy who's in charge of building the Death Star to talk about how to clear off

this planet. The meeting itself in this part of the episode is based off of the Vonse Conference, which was a conference held in nineteen forty two by Reinhart Heidrich and kind of managed by Adolf Eichman to plan the holocaust. This is where they actually sat down and talked about how are we going to build death camps, how are the death camps going to operate, how will we evacuate people to the death camps? All of that right, there was a meeting. A bunch of guys showed up. There

are minutes of the meeting. Tony has stated, if you've watched there's a great TV movie it's like twenty years old at this point, called Conspiracy. It stars Kenneth Brannaw as Reinhardt Heidrich, who is the architect who was like the guy running the Holocaust. Initially it's stars Stanley Tucci as Adolph Eichmann, an incredible iikman by the way, and this scene is deeply influenced by that movie. Right, There was another German movie also that, like the movie with

Brannaw was based off of. But but Tony Gilroy has said that that movie was an influence and that this is based on the Bonse conference, and there's a couple of lines that are almost word for word. One of the big differences is there's a point at which they bring in a couple of PR agents who are outside of the empire. That's like an outside PR corporation and arm. Yeah. Well, I think they're an outside contractor who does marketing normally and is doing propaganda if I'm remembering right.

Speaker 3

I think they're part of the Ministry of Enlightenment is what they call it. Yeah, yeah, credimful name. They have some of the best bits, yes, from this meeting.

Speaker 1

Their job is to put out propaganda that makes the Gormans look arrogant and unloyal and bad to everyone else, so that when they're massacred no one will care. Yeah.

Speaker 3

Quote, hasn't there always been something a little arrogant about the gour.

Speaker 1

Yeah, very good. It's it's very good.

Speaker 3

Yeah, they're talking about how they like create false news stories and like influence public opinion to be weaponized in favor of the imperial project the Ministry of Enlightenment. Stuff is very good. The other line I really like is from Dedra, one of the main characters from like the previous season, who has this like female isb agent and.

Speaker 1

She's sort of being made the aikman of the the Gorman Project.

Speaker 3

And like she talks with a chronic Ben Mendelssohn's character like about how propaganda really only gets you so far, and instead what they will need to need to work on is actually like controlling the Gorman resistance from the inside, Like you need to count on rebels to do like

the wrong thing at the right time. So about like like like astroturfing some kind of insurgency that can actually in the end service the Empire's interests, and like this is what she's talking about for her project being is actually like helping to influence the way that the resistance operates on the planet instead of just just focusing on like public opinion and propaganda and like military might.

Speaker 1

Yeah, What I really appreciate about this scene is the degree to which it shows, Number One, how information is siloed in a situation like this, how people are on a need, Like this room is informed at the start. Whoever, your bosses, if they're not in the room, they don't know about this. Yeah, and you don't tell them, Like we do not want the tightest of closed services. We are doing a genocide and we're not talking about it to other people.

Speaker 3

They report directly to the Emperor. No other people beneath the emperor knows what's happening. Yeah, and even the Emperor doesn't really know all of the details at this point, Like yeah.

Speaker 2

And this is like like the people are cutting out, like like they're cutting out, like the director of Imperial of the ISP, Like they're cutting out, the director of Material intelligeny're cutting off, like grabbing off Tarkin, like they're cutting out, Like the most important people in Star Wars have no idea. Like it's not even going to be the Vader. I mean, Vader probably knows, but there's no fucking mention of him at all either.

Speaker 1

Yeah, he can read mine, so I assume he's been able to like glean some things, But Yes, he's.

Speaker 2

Not not involved in any of this shit because he's not a Dutch star guy.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and again, this isn't like a massive population, so they're viewing this primarily as like a pr problem. So both you need to get out messaging that these people are arrogant and bad so that nobody supports them when we start killing them. And we need a terror cell that can be trusted to carry out attacks against the empire that will justify what we need to do, right, So that that's the point of this meeting. It's very

well shot, it's very well done. There's a lot of understanding of like just history in it that I appreciated as a Holocaust nerd. That's a bad way to frame it.

Speaker 3

But yeah, that is a bad way to frame it.

Speaker 2

Yeah, nope, nope, nope.

Speaker 1

Anyway, No, if you've watched these episodes and you loved them and you found that scene chilling, go watch Conspiracy with Kenneth Brannaw and Stanley Tucci. Oh, the Tuc, the Tuc, the Twoch playing Iikman Garrison.

Speaker 12

Dad.

Speaker 3

Alright, let's go on a break and then come back to talk about episode two.

Speaker 7

Yeah, we're back.

Speaker 1

Did you guys know Stanley Tucci super pro Palestine.

Speaker 3

That's cool.

Speaker 1

Oh nice with an actor like that that I've really enjoyed. I always am like white knuckling it if I when I decided to google that, and I was pleasantly surprised with the tuc All right, that's what I got here.

Speaker 3

Let's do Episode two. The Empire arrives on this farming planet to complete inspections on Coruscant. Our little slimy weasel Carril Karn keeps rising through the the Imperial ladder at the Bureau of Standards. Man Mathma's financial schemes to help secretly fund the rebellion start coming undone as one of her like backers or like the.

Speaker 2

Guy who's moving the money around for.

Speaker 1

Her, yet he's helping her wash her money.

Speaker 3

One of her collaborators, take Kola, starts to kind of back out or ask for ask for some assistance, and is getting a erratic in his behavior as he's going through a divorce.

Speaker 1

And is making kind of vague threats about well, maybe I'll talk to someone about what I know.

Speaker 3

Right, Yeah, if I if I don't get something out of this relationship, I might be forced to do something else to ensure like my safety and financial security. Meanwhile, Cassian is still on this jungle planet, held captive by these by these sectarian leftists start firing at each other and totally totally break down.

Speaker 1

Literal circular firing squad and it's beautiful.

Speaker 3

They go full, they go full Red.

Speaker 1

Army, Japanese Red Army, thank you very.

Speaker 3

Much, Japanese Red Army, and Cassie and barely barely escapes. Over the course of this like multi day like conflict with the UH, with the remnants of this rebellion cell, let's talk a little bit about this UH leftist infighting plot point.

Speaker 2

Yeah, this is something something I've never actually really seemed to pick it in you kind of like mainstream media thing, which is something that that happens in real movements, which is that when when movements suffer serious setbacks or when you know, and we see this more commonly in real life, when sort of like you know, the tide of a movement falls and everything starts falling apart. And these are people who just got absolutely obliterated in a battle of

their leaders dead, a bunch of their comrades died. One of the things that happens is in this is that this is when the this is when social movements evolve into infighting, you know, and this this is what was happening inside of like the American Left roughly from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty four was you got you got this giant, really vicious cycle of infighting, because this is this is what happens when there's no longer grow

threat to hold. They'veyone together, and people have this tendency to because they've just lost. Right, everyone's trying to process the emotions of their defeat, of like the really serious psychological damage that they've suffered. Like in these battles, people lash out at each other because it's easier than trying

to fight an enemy that has just defeated you. And you know, there's a complicating factor in this, which is that, like you know, these are also the periods when like rapists tend to get ran out right and when like abusers in the scene tend to get ran out. But on the other hand, yeah, it turns into these really really nasty sort of sometimes just sectarians. Sometimes they're just sort of like, you.

Speaker 1

Know, I never liked this guy. People are getting in trouble for being bad I'm going to just accuse this guy of some.

Speaker 3

Shit personality conflicts stuff.

Speaker 2

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And this is something that happens like every time there's a cycle. I mean I remember this God like, I mean you see the shit and scenes are like from like like two thousand, like thirteen twenty fourteen, there was like a huge cycle of this. We're kind of cycles of this in like twenty nineteen. What they we're kind of falling a part as occupy isis this is just like something that's a reality of social movements that you don't ever really is.

Speaker 1

He depicted it.

Speaker 2

And the everything I think is fascinating about it is because and Or is the person who's watching it right, Andor has no idea what the fuck is going on with the chulton ams of this group.

Speaker 1

No, No, my pay is famous.

Speaker 3

Yeah, he knows who like the leader is because Lutherin's team has been like supplying them with weapons, but they don't know about like the internal structures of those groups for like op sec reason No.

Speaker 1

And the leaders dead, like the leader got killed in this ambush. Right, there's you hear about her. She's named in the first season My Pay. She's one of when when Forrest Whitaker in season one gives that very famous rant where he's talking about all because he's the anarchist militant leader and he's talking about all the different groups.

Speaker 3

Separati galaxy, they're lost, all.

Speaker 1

Of them, clarity of purpose. He talks, he names my pay along with the other different So she's clearly a fairly well known I think she's a republic restorationist kind of person, So basically a social democrat militant leader, and her group's just gotten fucked and she is dead. So he knows of them, but he doesn't know them.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and because of that, you get, you get, you get, You get two things at the same time that I think are both really important. One is that you get to see what this kind of like infighting looks like, right like like actually depicting television. You get to see what happens when when movements fail and when people start to invite. In two, you get to see what it looks like from the outside, from Andrew's perspective where he's looking at these people, He's like, what the fuck is

wrong with you people? All of you guys are clowns.

Speaker 3

These are fucking children, Like I'm doing a serious job.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and this is also a thing that you get this. This is a real movement dynamic where it's like, you know, you're watching people who after twenty twenty or something, you know you've been through your first movement and you're in your first movement cycle collapse, right if you've been doing this and I'm like, you know, if you're doing this for like a fucking decade and you're watching all of these people do this shit again, and it's just like, oh god, fucking damn it. Like the kids are like,

you know, they haven't been to this before. It's really traumatic, and they're doing all this like completely incomprehensible bullshit, which is also like on the outside, if you look into this as someone who's not part of one of these scenes and you're seeing all this drama, it's just like what the fuck is wrong with you? People? Like why are you doing this? And the fact that you're getting all of this like you know, fucking Disney show is fascinating.

Speaker 1

It's why, I mean, And it shows the depth of knowledge and the the sheer amount of understanding that the people writing this have of how movements go. Again, it's granular and it's to a degree like based in some real experiences that some people on this team have had, Like you don't understand stuff like this otherwise.

Speaker 3

And as this group is like interrogating Cassie and try to trying to figure out who he is, Like they keep trying to dig into like what rebel group Cassiine is like a part of, and like who he's working with, and he's like refusing to give them this information because that's good security culture. And they're like, but you know who we work with, and he's like, yeah, you shouldn't have told me.

Speaker 1

Yeah, she didn't have said that.

Speaker 3

That was bad, very very good stuff.

Speaker 1

And it's got it starts, you know, we didn't say this with with episode one. Episode one starts with another beautiful Cassian speech when he's because he's he's infiltrating as a tie fighter pilot this base where he's stealing an experimental craft and there's a young woman there who's like a technician, who is his in right and who's clearly just made her break with the Empire, and she like meets him briefly. She's like, sorry, I know I'm not supposed to look at you. I'm not supposed to talk

to you, and he like grabs me. He's like, no, this is what it's all about, is the moment of connection between us where we both after all of like this being frightened and alone in the dark, were together and we know that we're doing something. This is what every this is, This is everything.

Speaker 3

And this is the moment you find yourself.

Speaker 2

Yeah yeah, from yourself and this is an everything that that That was the moment in this season where I was like, oh, okay, so the people are it's still the same people. It's like these are people who are just of the left in a way that you don't really ever see even with like old communists who are

writing stuff. It's like I have given this speech to people, yeah, like dozens and dozens of times, like this is the thing that if you do this work, Like you have literally given this speech to a new person about like yeah, yeah, like this is the reason where and like it's just fucking I'm just like that mind is blown that this shit is just like appearing in mass media where people who aren't from these movements are just like encountering this.

Speaker 1

And the reason why again when I say and or is like historically profitable after the first season. Every year afterwards, for a couple of years, the number of people watching it increased, which by which I mean each year after it came out, more people watched it than had watched it in the year it came out. And that doesn't happen to TV. Yeah, it simply is not how television works, which is why Disney was like, here is a quarter of a billion dollars make and or season two.

Speaker 3

Man, this is the first time Star Wars has like visually looked good in like a decade.

Speaker 1

Yeah, oh my god, and it looks incredible.

Speaker 2

It looks gorgeous, gorgeous.

Speaker 3

There's so many super long like tracking shots this season where they're going through like massive sets yea, with all like like singular like one takes and like you know, all the previous Star Wars shows are filmed on these like digital sound stages with like you know, led screen backgrounds, but like you cannot achieve this level of like in real life like fidelity on like a digital background screen. Like these are huge sets, Like specifically the Chandrilla set

is like massive. As you walk around like modern mathma's like Senate estate or whatever for this for this Tradcath wedding that we'll talk more about in the next episode. Yeah, just like, really really like excellent craftsmanship going into this.

Speaker 1

Yeah, just beautiful. Okay, speaking of beautiful set design. All right, we're back.

Speaker 3

Let's talk about the nally of this little three episode arc. Cassian's trying to contact Lutheran and learns that his friends on the farming planet are actually being subject to some kind of imperial inspection. He's advised to not go there, but of course he does anyway to check on his friends as his Star Wars tradition a lah Luke skywalker. In episode five, people on this planet are trying to evade this inspection by forging emergency work orders, but their

scheme falls apart. They might have been rated out by one of the top guys running the silo, and imperial officers arrest and interrogate people for not having proper work visas.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and the people on this planet are Cassian's friends from season one who he lived with, like the guy who was effectively his big brother, Brasso.

Speaker 3

Yeah, Brasso, the guy who hits the cop with the brick in the finale season one.

Speaker 1

Your goddamn righty, Brick's a cop And then Bicks, who is his girlfriend partner type person kind of off and on, and the because of her connections to him, gets horribly tortured in season one.

Speaker 3

Yeah, and as well as young terrorist Willem, who throws a pipe bomb into a crowd of stormtroopers in the finale of season one. So these three are in hiding on this farm planet and are now in trouble because these Imperial Inspections and immigration officers are are on their tail. On Triandrilla, Man Mathma talks to Luthen, who's there for for work because he's like he's like an he's like

an artifact, like a dealer. But she tells Luthen that the guy that that they were working with to to help Man Mathma secretly fund the rebellion is showing some erratic behavior and and and may and may need to be like, you know, bribed to keep quiet. Luthen, being smart and serious, knows that no, no, no, no no, you cannot simply bribe this man into silence. This man needs to get taken out right now. You need to close this.

Speaker 1

He brought in the cops like he brought in the fucking cops like he brought He has to die. That's the way these.

Speaker 3

Threatening to snitched. This guy needs to get dealt with immediately. The other plot point that I don't think we'll have much talk about but is very excellent. Our slimy weasel Cyril Carn and his new abusive girlfriend Dedra have have Cyril's wonderful mother over for dinner in just a fantastic, fantastically uncomfortable seed In less happy occurrences, as the Imperial officers investigate and search this farming planet, one of them tries to sexually assault Bix inside their little r V home.

Bix kills him, and eventually and Or arrives with a tie. Avenger takes out this this Imperial battalion and Bix and and Or and the kid are able to escape, and Brasso unfortunately dies in a in a high speed speeder chase.

Speaker 1

He dies. It's it's it's an under It's like a believable move. Someone would make it under fire. But like, man, there's tall fucking grass. Just drop go to the ground, don't get on a motorbike. Well you're above the fucking crops. Like, get on the ground, high stressful environment.

Speaker 3

Right, It's it sucks, but it's but it's really people.

Speaker 1

Do stuff like that all the time in gunfights. Yes, so it's it's one of those where I was like no, but also like, yep, that's what happens. Yeah.

Speaker 2

One of the things that isn't really being talked about with the show, but I think it is actually is very important, is that it is absolutely unflinching in its depiction of patriarchy. Like I mean there's you know, there's this sort of obvious, horrifying scene of like this ice guy. I mean, increasingly over over the course of this thing, like just going from like hey, if you like date me, you can not get deported because we have to maintain.

Speaker 3

The I know you're illegal, and that's fine.

Speaker 1

We know we need a bun. We're not here to arrest everyone, right because we need the crops from this planet. But I am going to arrest some people, and I can make sure it's not you if you go on a quote unquote date with.

Speaker 2

Me, yeah, and then you know, and it's just and escalates from there and is just straight up like sexual assault, right, And this is really really I mean obviously it's jarring because it's you know, like it's an non sconscript depiction of a tempt of sexual assault and then she like

does a fight and she kills them. Right, But this was also very very jarring to a lot of people because people are very and this is a Star Wars thing too, they are very used to seeing fascism depicted through its own self perception.

Speaker 4

Right.

Speaker 2

People are very very used to seeing fascism as something that is strong, that is ordered, as discipline that is dangerous. And the problem is the reality of fascism is that, like a lot of it is just a bunch of tipshit rapists who are like pretending to be those guys. Yeah, and you know, and this is one of the things Andrew has always been very very good at. Is you

saw this last season right with with Dedra. Who is her thing is that she is, you know, of the very common amerror an archetype of the cop who breaks all the rules to get the job done. And then you know, and then like that that's how she first is first introduced, and then you see what that actually looks like in public, which is, you know, she is just straight up torturing bis with like the screams of an entire the death room of an entire species.

Speaker 3

And that's in season one.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, that's the season one And and what's powerful about this is something and Or also does into the prison Break episodes is like this this fascist self perception, right of this sort of strong ordered, discipline, unified thing that is just propaganda. They are not actually like that behind the scenes, right, It's just these fucking incredibly violent,

like petty losers doing this fucking shit. And then you know, I mean the other thing about about the sort of patriarchy side is that you see this on the other side with with mon Mathma's like, you know, her sort of like money cleaner, who's who's what her old friend take Coleman like like literally is is demanding that like Ma Mathma have sex with him in order for him

to keep keep doing this money washing shit. And this is also something you see in bits all the time, which is like guys with resources using their access to resources to force themselves on women, like in the movements and this, and you know, and there's there's like a third dynamic here with with take Homa, which is like another thing you see all the time in movements is guy going through a divorce who goes completely off the fucking rails and starts doing shit that dangers everyone and

you know, starts doing sort of like weird predatory shit, and I think, I don't know, there just hasn't been much analysis of like, yeah, this is these are all ways things like if you have been in movements, you have experienced patriarchy in all of these ways, you have experienced cops doing shit to you, you have experienced stuff from inside the movement.

Speaker 1

Fuck. A big part of how the major Greens organizations that were dismantling the Green Scare were taken down was through members of these different groups who had been doing direct action who were misogynists. Right. That is always an easy, easy way to break into and shatter a movement is find the guy who's got that going on about him and turns.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and you know, and you have that on one hand. On the other hand, with like the cops, this is like a very very common like cops just like sexually assaulting people for fun. It's like a thing that they do all the fucking time. And same thing with ice because I mean this is obviously like I don't think it say like this, this is just literally one to one.

They're doing ice raids and star wars. Yeah, and the heroes are the people who like and or coming back with a tie fighter blowing them up right, like you know, yeah, Also I do want to someone landa know, I do want to point out that like this show also quietly has had like the most realistic lesbian relationship in all of Star.

Speaker 13

Wars, and this season is like, oh, someone on this crew is a lesbian because they have depicted my culture perfectly, which is uh the you know okay, so like the rich girl lesbian and the like broke.

Speaker 2

Non white like gorilla lesbian who came from nothing, his family was killed by the Empire, get together as an intense item dread in operation and then the moment the operation is over there broke girl was like, fuck, this was a bad idea. And now they're keep running into each other in movement things that are like they're sort of avoiding each other, and one of them is still the perfect in fiction to lesbian culture. Incredible, No notes loved the lesbian rebels. I'm happy for them.

Speaker 1

Oh incredible, Yeah, it's it's it's beautiful stuff. The quality of the writing, like everyone was worried who loved or season one, like well fuck how could it? How could they possibly how could they possibly compare with season one? And uh, it's just getting better. It's just they did it again somehow, you crazy bastards, You did it again.

Speaker 2

The thing I want to close on was with this wedding, which is there's a bunch of really fascinating things about it.

One is that, okay, so on the very nonsubtle level, like they are cutting back and forth between everyone dancing to this like sort of tech upbeat techno thing, like they're cutting back and forth between like mon Mothma dancing at this wedding, and like the ice raid that's happening, which is like, you know, this is the level of political subtlety that you need to be working on with

the American people. You have to just be like I'm hammering you over the head with the point which is like all of you motherfuckers are going to brunch and like, yeah, the ice rays are happening.

Speaker 3

Well, that is an aspect. I think it also proves there you can operate in that zone because men Mouthma is still a very important figure.

Speaker 1

Yes, starting is not just a useless lib right, She's critical.

Speaker 3

And you have someone like like Lucian who can put on nice clothes, can can do this persona and extract intel at this party. In one in one of the previous episodes, he's like talking with this guy who introduces his son who is in the Imperial Navy, and he was talking about like like like a like a recent operation on a planet, and Luten was like, oh, really tell me more, and like it's like you can, you can. You can still extract information at these like places where

power is like flaunted and exchanged. Yes, they are still bad. But if you are like an aspiring rebel, yeah you can use these places to your advantage. But no, there absolutely still is. This is this juxtaposition of yeah, this like you know, riotous party with with like this horrific ice raid and yeah, like the material conditions in these

people's lives is very different. Even even if man Mathma's doing good stuff still as like an Imperial senator, her everyday life is very different to complete someone who's having to hide from like ice agents.

Speaker 2

Now.

Speaker 1

The other thing though, that is going on in this scene. It's not purely these are the wealthy partying as these nightmare raids go down. The other thing that's going on is mon Mathma is emotionally accepting this guy who was my lover for a long time and who is a dear friend of mine is going to be killed. And I have accepted the necessity. And the only thing for me to do right now is to get so drunk that I can't feel it.

Speaker 3

Yeah, is to do drugs, wreck drink. And that's how you exist under like the horrific conditions that the Empire forces you to live under.

Speaker 12

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah, And there's this fascinating thing. And I know this especially watching back season one. If you look, if you go back and watch those scenes and you look at the way it's lit. You look at the way that there's just the stark like white light coming through the windows. This is not how it's lit in season one, right, This is a very deliberate choice. Almost everyone else who does this scene would do this sort of like warm, rich, like golden lighting, because that's like that's how you do

these sort of like fancy wedding things. And this the way that it is lit is the same way that they're lighting all of the like like the stark white imperial corridors, and there's this very you know, and so like like it's working on like all of these sort of like levels of like like visual metaphor of of all of this, just like oh yeah, this is also imperial space, right, and everyone here is operating either like regardless of what side they're on, they're operating like in

imperial terrain in this sort of like thing. As Asma Motha also was just dealing with like her kid becoming a tradcath and like trying to talk her kid out of being a tradcath or a kid FU share at her for being like, hey, maybe you shouldn't do this like weird marriage thing when you're like.

Speaker 3

A chire like twelve year old marriage.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, I think I think the place I want to end on is there was a really interesting thing where like the Disney account like just posted a video like I think it was on Twitter that was just

one the like one hour of Mathmaed dancing. Yeah, And there was like a fascinating reaction to this of like like cause on the one hand, there's always people like who I know, Victoria Zeller, who's a trans writer, who I follow, who up probably we're talking to on the show at some point soon I had this thing, but like oh yeah, like there are also there's just gonna be weddings that are like based on this Chandulaine wedding thing, and like in like two or three years, we're gonna

be seeing this And there's just interesting dynamic where like on the one hand you have the people who were just completely focused on the aesthetic, and then the other hand you have the people who were like, oh yeah, I like this is this is fucking me getting just absolutely fucked up as like all of the fucking horrors play out around us and having to like deal with and fight all the fucking horrors, while like all of the people around me are just like kind of just completely checked out.

Speaker 1

And I thought it was just like fascinating.

Speaker 2

Watching that's to play out on social media and on in real life like this. You know, they're being very very literal about how it works, and it's working.

Speaker 3

I'm seeing people do it.

Speaker 7

Yeah.

Speaker 3

The last thing I do want to mention is just a big shout out to Cyril, to Cyril Karn's Italian Jewish mother.

Speaker 1

Yeah, oh yeah, the best, the best villain in Star Wars, Darth Vader ain't got shit.

Speaker 3

Not nearly as scary as Cerrel Krn's other No.

Speaker 1

I would take him in a fight over her any day.

Speaker 3

How However, one of the interesting parts about this little like like dinner party is how Cyril Krn's like FBI agent abusive girlfriend. The moment Cyril is out of the room, she like takes control of this mother, using like all of her like imperial interrogation and like intimidation tactics, and it's like, no, no, no, you don't understand how this relationship is going to go. I am in charge here.

I will dictate when Cyril can see you, how I will dictate how your relationship with your son is going to go, because like Cyril is like my like pet, like I run everything and things will go according to my wishes.

Speaker 1

See. I had a very different interpretation of that really, because number one, she is not on board she's going to be doing part of the Gorman genocide. She doesn't like the plan. She doesn't like that she's involved. This is not what she wants to be doing. She wants to be hunting Luther. Yes, I agreed, And I think part of it is that she doesn't like and I

think this will become increasingly clear. She's not thrilled that Cyril's going to get involved in this shit because it's dangerous what I thought they were kind of showing we've been seeing her like abuse him. I don't think we've seen her be mean to him other than like initially when that before they were dating, she didn't take him seriously until she saved her life.

Speaker 3

Well, I know, he's like a weird stalker beforehand.

Speaker 1

He is a little bit of a stock and.

Speaker 3

She is, like I think you can absolutely interpret some of some of her behaviors as like a degree of like emotionally.

Speaker 1

Abu says, it's not just a couple before their dating.

Speaker 3

Yeah, maybe I don't know fascist for fascist couple. I think there's elements and including like the earlier scene of them in the apartment, where like both of them are like very uncomfortable around each other.

Speaker 1

They're awkward people, but like they're I one of the things I appreciated about this is that, like she is a monster. We see her doing exclusively evil things. And then Cyril, because his mom is so cruel to him, does the most relatable thing anyone does in this show and goes and lies down on his bed and has

a panic attack in the middle of their dinner. And that's when she and that's when she says look, bitch, this is how shit's and she's being a good girlfriend in that moment, she's getting his mom off his back.

Speaker 3

I definitely interpret this scene differently. She did also threaten to arrest his uncle, like she does threaten to send his uncle to forever jail. Yeah, no, I can see how you would read it that way. I think I definitely do interpret this scene a little bit differently, And I I think the beauty of good writing is this ability to look at this relationship in multiple ways.

Speaker 1

What I like about the way The Empire is written is that they're not caricatures, but not in a way where they're being like, well, the Empire's got a point, but in the way that like, yeah, these are people, and I understand how folks, why folks would want to be a part of this system outside of just like the cruelty that it does. Like Partigaz, who is like the leader of the ISB section that we're watching, is a really good boss. He listens to his subordinates, he

tells them when their ideas suck. He does not spare their feelings, but he's he rewards initiative and he's willing to like be proven wrong or argued with like when people are forceful against him and make a good point, He's like, all right, well let's try it. And I love showcasing that in the same way that like, if you talk to people who worked for like work for companies like Raytheon, they'll be like, yeah, it was a nightmare evil that we were making, and like a very

healthy working environment. And that is often the case with some of the most evil organizations on the planet, Like people who are very good at managing people often wind up like That's what makes fascist systems so dangerous. It's not that everyone in this is incompetent. It's that there are sometimes people who are very good organizers and very competent leaders who wind up in these systems, and that's part of what allows the evil to happen.

Speaker 2

The point of Android, the point of Star Wars is that also you could out organize them and beat them. So message of hope.

Speaker 1

Yes, yes, I mean fundamentally the show is very hopeful because the empire number one, we know the empire falls, but number two we're seeing we're seeing like why right, which is this attempt to control everything that inevitably creates more fires than you can put out. Yeah.

Speaker 3

The tighter they hold their grip, the more systems will slip through their fingers. Yeah, yep, which is the line from the theory twink in season one.

Speaker 7

Yeah.

Speaker 3

And I think what makes Androws some specials is this does fill in this gap of like when we jump into like a new hope, you have this fully like complete like rebel alliance, right it is. It is an alliance of different rebel cells that have come together to do like like a large scale military action. It takes a lot of build up to get an alliance of rebel cells, a whole bunch of like individual like rebel terrast cells have usually have a very hard time working

with each other. Yes, and it's very hard forget them to coordinate. And and Or is the story of watching these like many different cells slowly start to figure out that maybe it would make more sense if we work together instead of just doing random small crimes and like hits on individual planets or imperial processing plants. The ability to see these cells come together is what makes I

think and Or so special. And And for the rest of the season, We're going to move forward a year at a time all the way up to the beginning of rogue where then we do have the like the completed rebel alliance. So I am I'm excited to watch that development.

Speaker 1

Yep, all right, well see you next week. This is it, sorry, Garrison in you.

Speaker 3

It's we have a whole thing that we've been doing.

Speaker 1

Happen we have been.

Speaker 3

This is the first episode that started differently in like twelve.

Speaker 1

You're right, you're right. Why don't you why don't you introduce erectile dysfunction or whatever we call this?

Speaker 3

That's not what it's called. This is it could happen here. Executive Disorder, the weekly newscast where we cover, you know, everything happening in the White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. I'm joined by Federal No No New Mexico, State.

Speaker 1

Magis Mexico, Municipal Judge.

Speaker 3

Municipal Judge, Robert Evans. That's right, Neil Long and James Stout. We're recovering the week of April twenty fourth to April thirtieth.

Speaker 1

Yes, and we're sponsored by Hymns. Not yet, but hopefully.

Speaker 9

When they release THEMS, we will we will accept that contract money one day.

Speaker 3

Robert, what's going on? With your fellow judges.

Speaker 1

I want to get to that garrison. Some very important news just dropped from the real raw news Twitter account. Oh boys, sharing what you don't want shared one hundred and seven thousand followers. Special forces that accompanied President Trump to the Pope's funeral arrested Biden for treason afterward, but it turned out to be a body double.

Speaker 14

So breaking news turns out breaking us. Joe still has a trigger two up his sleep. Patriots not in control.

Speaker 3

What a beautiful world people must live.

Speaker 1

I desperately want to lift in the world where like Joe Biden is a Saga Rara type rebel figure, like tricking special forces with body doubles, hiding in the mountains.

Speaker 5

They called him Joe the Jackal for a reason.

Speaker 3

Yeah, he locked up in a Vatican vaults where he's scheming his return.

Speaker 1

He just stolen nuke from Fort Leonard Wood.

Speaker 9

Oh boy, he's in a tiny submarine making its way to keep it right.

Speaker 3

Now, I guess you know, speaking of the Pope, But Trump himself has announced his running for the pope ship paper.

Speaker 1

Why not let him have it. Let him have it.

Speaker 3

We will keep a close eye on that.

Speaker 1

Let him have it. But make Stanley Tucci do whatever job Stanley Tucci had in conclave.

Speaker 3

Make him the lib A cuck cardinal why not?

Speaker 1

That's right, that's right, speaking of lib No, speaking of judges who actually exercised a great deal of personal courage. There have been two cases in the last week or so of judges being arrested and charged by the Trump administration with crimes that are all related to aiding and abetting undocumented immigrants. Right, yeah, I'm going to start with the case of Hannah Dugan. Hannah Dugan is is a Wisconsin She's a Milwaukee County Circuit judge. She was sworn

in in twenty sixteen. So she's I wanted to say, I wanted to say she hasn't been doing this very long, but no, that's literally like nine years, eight or nine years, so she's been doing this a spell. She's sixty five years old. And on March twelfth, there was a fellow Flora's Ruiz is his last name, He's thirty years old, who was arrested after basically there was a confrontation between him and his roommates for him playing loud music. He was confronted for this on March twelfth, and he allegedly

fought with a male roommate in the kitchen. A woman I'm not sure if she was a roommate or just there, tried to break them up. Two women eventually did. One of them got elbowed in the arm, allegedly by Flores Ruiz. One of them was struck while trying to break them up. It is unclear to the degree to which I'm hearing a lot of people like I went to the centrist subreddit to season they're like, well, a serial abuser of women.

That's not really what he's being accused of. There's like a fight between him and another guy, and it got chaotic. One person elbowed in the arm. I'm sorry, I don't consider that serious domestic abuse unless it's part of a pattern. If it's literally he was fighting a guy and other people swarmed in and some of them one of them got elbowed. I don't know about this woman that he's

alleged of striking. To what degree did he haul off and punch he or was it again, there was this chaotic struggle and several people got struck in the middle of it. Right, this isn't like great, but this is certainly not. The evidence that has been provided by the state here in this case is not that this is a serial domestic abuser of women. It's a guy who was involved in a chaotic fight with a roommate and a couple of other people. Right, So he's being charged

with misdemeanor domestic battery as a result of this. He faces up to nine months in prison and a ten thousand dollars fine on each count if convicted, and he has not been convicted and is innocent until proven guilty. So he went up in front of Judge Dugan literally a few days ago when we record this, and while she was in the midst of like having this like court meeting. Basically, I think this was kind of like a pre trial deal right where they're where they're kind

of like setting the ground rules of things. She finds out that Ice is in the courthouse and that they are looking for Flores Ruiz, and so she gets really angry because based on what Wisconsin has stated, like the actual like law in the state, they are not supposed to be interfering in actual court proceedings. And part of the reason why is that the courts don't want people to be dissuaded from dealing with their state level court

issues by the fact that Ice might pick them up. Right, It will stop people, It will make people go on the run. It makes it very difficult to enforce law and order.

Speaker 9

And it also think victims, right, Like I've said, at least to have some makes it difficult.

Speaker 1

For victims to get any sort of justice. Yes, yeah. The FBI FI David describes her as getting visibly angry when Immigration shows up and she leaves the bench, right, and she retreats to her chambers and I think confers with another judge, and she and that judge then approached the arrest team inside the court courthouse. The affidavit describes

her as having a confrontational, angry demeanor. She basically keeps saying, show me a fucking warrant, right, And they don't have a quote unquote real warrant, right, They do not have a criminal arrest warrant. They have an administrative warrant, which, based on the actual law, they do not. She does not have to let them in, right, That is not the way these things fucking work right into the courtroom to like interrupt the proceedings. On the strength of this warrant.

She tells them to speak with the chief judge, and she leads them away from the courtroom. Right. Once she sends them to the chief Judge's office, this is where the thing that may in fact be criminal behavior comes in. Dugan goes back into the courtroom and says something along the lines of weight, come with me, and then takes Flora's Ruiz and his lawyer through the jury door into a non public area of the courthouse. Right, this is not normal behavior. And Ice is alleging that this is

interfering with the duties of federal agents. Right, that she's basically hiding an undocumented immigrant who is being actively tracked by Ice, right, and that that is a federal crime. And so that is the situation. Right when it was found out that this was happening, the FBI and ICE arrested her. She has since bailed out. She is facing several federal charges, and it's, you know, kind of unclear

where this case is going to go. In terms of her initial behavior, she was absolutely legally in the right that administrative warrant did not give Ice the right to interrupt the court proceedings. She led them to the chief judge that was all entirely within the law. We're going to learn how the law adjudicates what she did afterwards, right, taking these people through, because it's not illegal to lead people through a backdoor. It's not a crime to tell

people to leave this way. But what may be adjudicated as a crime is that by doing this, she was helping to aid in a bet the escape of a fugitive. Right, And that is the argument that the federal government is making here.

Speaker 9

Yeah, they didn't leave the building at that point, right, because in the charging documents, then an ice agent gets in the elevator with them, yeah, and decides not to detain them at that point for some reason.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah, I believe that's what happened. And that part of is why I think they picked this case, because they thought it was close enough on the edge enough that they could charge a judge. And I think that is the purpose of this more than going after this,

And that's why they've been going to these courtses. They have been looking, they've been shopping for a situation like this, right, And part because one of the first things that happened is the Wisconsin Supreme Court suspended Judge Dugan right because She's been charged with two federal counts, and this is

a normal thing. If a judge gets accused of federal crimes, you would, in normal terms, want them to be suspended because those crimes are probably something like they were selling children to a child prison, which is a thing that happened to Trump. Pardon the judges responsible, right, you would want those people not trying cases while this was going on.

But what's going to be done here, and what's already being done here, is that judges that are friendly to and sympathetic to undocumented people and who are not gigantic pieces of shit. And Judge Dugan comes out of a public defense background. This is somebody who defended people like the defendant in this case in her previous life as a lawyer, and I think acted with tremendous courage in

this situation to try to protect somebody. They are going after her because number one, they want to chill other judges from doing this, and number two, they can keep her off the bench right and assume she will be replaced with somebody worse, or that they will just clog up the system, either way of which works in their favor. So it will be unclear how things are going to work out in this case. I can't tell you legally

what's going to happen. That could go either way. I can tell you, and I think this is a very important point. It's a point Jared Yate Sexton, who's a scholar on fascism, made online about this particular case, is we shouldn't give a shit if she broke the law. She did the right thing. These people are doing the wrong thing and they need to be stopped right And that is my overall stance. What she did was heroic and we should support her and fuck these people. I

don't know, yeah, yep, yep. I don't have a complicated take on this.

Speaker 3

Solidarity with the Wisconsin judiciary or at least one of them. At least one of them.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I have a friend who knows her and says she's a very nice person, and her actions in this case certainly would seem to suggest that she's a very nice, good courageous person.

Speaker 9

Yeah, and like just to there's conceivably like a person listening who thinks that I know, these deportation things are okay.

Speaker 1

I know if you are, fuck you, why this isn't for you? Go away?

Speaker 2

Yeah?

Speaker 1

Well, yeah, we don't make it. You know what, you put rocks in your pockets and yeah, there's bodies of it. Whatever the.

Speaker 9

Even if you fucking like the deportation for whatever reason, you should be able to understand that doing this in court houses is bad. Like if a let's just take an example, right, Like, if a woman who is undocumented is subc to domestic violence, right, going to testifying court could lead to her being deported, Like, this is fucking bad.

Speaker 3

It could subject her to even more violence from the state from yet wherever she's trying to flee from, yeah.

Speaker 5

To being detained with people, yeah, yes, if you believe in the judicial system, right like, this stops it functioning.

Speaker 1

Also, I want to say this too, if you're purely coming at this from a perspective of like, well, I'm still a law and order guy, this also vastly endangers Wisconsin police because if every undocumented person who gets accused of a crime knows that, well, the instant I'm accused, I'm going to be sent to a fucking concentration camp, might as well start shooting, right.

Speaker 3

Yeah, It's why you don't see very many of these things happening in states where people regularly carry firearms.

Speaker 1

Yes, so again you know that's all I'm saying. No, that's not my primary concern, but I'm going to make that point.

Speaker 12

Yeah.

Speaker 3

What about the other like weirder case of the New Mexico case, the judge in New Mexico.

Speaker 1

Yes, so now back to my fellow New Mexico municipal judge. Actually I think he was in a missige yeah, county magistrate. Yeah, so he and I basically the same. So there's this guy Nancy Cano who's a former police officer, his wife was a cop. And Joel Cano, who is the Donna Anna County magistrate judge. These two are really you wouldn't have expected what happened from this group. These two are a cop and a judge.

Speaker 3

Couple radical lefty lunatics.

Speaker 1

There are wealthy landlords who own at least eight properties and they hire three men to do like you know, contracting work. And those men included a guy, Christian Ortega Lopez twenty three years old, right, who is a Venezuelan migrant. And first off, because these are cops or a cop and a judge, they like check his papers which saved, do not deport right like he is in the the system not subject. This person is not subject to removal. Right,

those are on his papers. They check his papers. They work for these three guys, work for them for a while and develop a close relationship with the Canos to the point that they refer to them as the boys. And when they get kicked out of their apartment, they let them live with them, I think for free or at least for a nominal fee. And as they describe it,

they came to consider them part of the family. And there's like photo evidence of that, including photo evidence of them like going to the gun range together as like a family day at the gun range and shooting, and like this guy Artago Lopez like posts pictures of these people and these like family outings on his Facebook, Like

they really do seem to have all been very close. Yeah, earlier this year, Ice comes for these guys, the boys, these three dudes who are living on their property, in a small guest house on the Canos property, and they allege or Tega Ortiz to have been a member of trind Agua. And it's based on and I hate most of the reporting on this because it's all just like the alleged alleged gang member alleged trind to Agua member.

And you look at it, well, well, he has tattoos, and there's pictures of him with guns, pictures him with guns that are legally owned by Americans at a gun range.

Speaker 9

Yeah, he's a twenty three year old guy coming to America. Like there's a high correlation with those people and people.

Speaker 1

Going to a gun range. Yeah, nothing illegal with that, but they're like a gang member. Photos of guns on his Facebook. Oh my god. So these guys get arrested, right, and it's initially and this is like a month or so ago. It's a big scandal. Canos resigns from his position as a magistrate, right and gets permanently barret serving as a judge in New Mexico because these guys had been on his property, even though again there's not any evidence that I have seen anywhere that he actually did

anything illegal. At this point. Now, yeah, here's where things get problematic. At this point, the boys are being you know, the government is treating them as people who are here I legally, and they are trying to kick them out and they are accusing them, these three guys of being evolved in Trindagua. At this point, Nancy Kno provides them with legal assistance in complying with the procedures of their

pending immigration cases, right, which shouldn't be illegal. She's literally helping them abide by the law.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

But there's some other things, So Joel Cano, this is where this guy turns from like fucking married a cop, he's a landlord. He smashes or take a Lopez's phone. He admits, he's admitted that he's done this. This is not an allegation with a hammer to stop Ice from getting it. So, first off, based illegal, super illegal, super illegal, but not a like a good person act, I would argue. Secondly, Nancy tries to help, and this is I think a

grayer area. Tries to help Ortago Lopez delete his Facebook account, and I don't actually think there's any evidence of him doing anything illegal on there. I think it's just they knew the photos he'd posted of him not breaking any laws would be used as an argument that he had I think that that's defensible in court, although they will allege that it's destruction of the evidence, they may win on that breaking the phone is. You know, that's going to be a tough one for them. That's just going

to be a tough one for them. Now the knos are currently being charged and they have been released. They can't leave the county. There was the prosecutors were attempting to have them separated so that they couldn't talk about the case. But thank god the judge ruling was like, they're married, they have a constitutional right to be together. You don't get to do that. But obviously they have to like hand in their passports any guns they'd had,

which they seem to have already done. The good news is that these are rich people, right, Like the judge even makes a comment that, like, these are the wealthiest people I've ever had in my courtroom, So they have the resources to fight this. And again fucking politics making strange bedfellows.

Speaker 2

Yep.

Speaker 1

Yeah, critical support to the landlord, judge, cop couple who tried to protect these EMM grits. I don't know, like whatever, they did the right thing, you know, in my opinion, again not the legal thing, and I'm not urging you to follow them and breaking the law, making very clear it is illegal to break the phone of somebody that you know the police are looking for because they've been charged with crimes. That is a crime. I'm just saying

I think what they did was out of love and brave. Anyway, That's what I gotta say.

Speaker 3

Speaking of love, I love these ads. All Right, we are back. I am now going to discuss a I believe the word is a flurry of executive orders that half in the past week, because there was a ton This was a huge week for actions through through through executive order. We've tried to summarize a few of these that have like or a few orders that have come in the past few months, but but yeah, definitely the ones that happened last week are much more notable, and

I will go through them one by one. Starting off with an attempt to possibly repeal large sections of the Civil Rights Act, Trump side in order to quote eliminate the use of disparate impact liability in all contexts to the maximum degree possible. Disparate impact is a legal theory that seeks to address discriminatory policies that, on their face may appear neutral but actually continue decades old discrimination and segregation.

This order from Trump provokes presidential approval for Title six antidiscrimination regulations from the sixties and seventies, and orders all agencies to quote deprioritize enforcement of all statutes and regulations to the extent that they include disparate impact liability. The order calls for the Attorney General to quote initiate appropriate action to repeal or amend the implementing regulations for Title

six the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four. Cabinet members were also instructed to review all pending investigations, civil suits, consent judgments, permanent injunctions, and government positions rely on spared impact theory. That includes Titles seven and eight of the Civil Rights Act, which protects equal employment and fair housing. This is kind of part of a larger attack on civil rights in general, like obviously the past few months,

who've seen this with like DEI stuff. But last week the DOJ essentially closed its existing civil Rights office, resigned a dozen senior career attorneys, curbed investigations into police misconduct and violations of voting and disability rights. Plus, the Education at Discrimination Division is now being directed to protect women's sports, and the Immigrant and Employee Rights Division was told to investigate companies that quote unlawfully discriminate against US workers in

favor of foreign visa workers unquote. So that's how they think they're going to be defending civil rights is by keeping trans girls out of sports and going after foreign visa workers. Basically, they're trying to turn federal civil rights infrastructure against those whom they were meant to to protect in the first place. The next order kind of outlies

something I'm calling cop Nation. It's called quote strengthening and unleashing America's law enforcement to pursue criminals and protect innocent civilians. This is kind of like a proto martial law order. It's what you would do beforehand to strengthen police, but not actually like declare martial law. It's setting kind of the path towards that, or at the very least like strengthening law enforcement to the degree to which it like butts up against what martial law would be.

Speaker 2

The order calls to.

Speaker 3

Quote unleash high impact local police forces, protect and defend law enforcement officers wrongly accused and abused by state or local officials, and surge resources to officers in need unquote. It directs the Attorney General to create a mechanism to have private sector law firms provide pro bono legal defense to police officers who quote unjustly incur expenses and liabilities for actions taken during the performance of their official duties

to enforce the law. So this tries to make it harder for police to be held accountable for a civil and criminal misconduct, basically extending qualified immunity to the criminal realm. According to Business Insider, quote, following previous executive orders targeting a number of elite firms, nine law firms have agreed to deals with the President and collectively agreed to provide nine hundred and forty million in pro bono legal services

to support the President's policies. This order also calls to use federal resources to increase pay, expand training, and strengthen legal protections for police officers, as well as to quote seek enhanced sentences for crimes against law enforcement officers, promote investment in the security capacity of prisons, and increase the investment in and collection, distribution and uniformity of crime data

across jurisdictions. The Attorney General is directed to review and remove any previous accountability restrictions placed on to local or state law enforcement agencies that might unduly impede the performance

of law enforcement functions. And then, finally, quote, Attorney General and the Secretary of Defense, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security and the heads of agencies as appropriate, shall increase the provision of excess military and national security assets in local jurisdictions to assist state and local law enforcement.

And shall determine how military and national security assets, training, non lethal capabilities, and personnel can most effectively be utilized to prevent crime unquote, so moving more national security resources over to state and local law enforcement, and directs the ag to go after state and local officials that struckt criminal law by quote, prohibiting law enforcement officers from carrying out duties necessary for public safety or unlawfully engage in

discrimination or civil rights violations under the guise of DEI do you want to discuss anything with this you know, anti ACAB executive order here and what it might actually like do in reality besides you know, expanding like legal protections for cops.

Speaker 2

I mean, I think the worrying one to me is that they're very explicitly talking about using military national security assets like in the US against Americans, and the thing right now we are doing is like to prevent crime. But like I think, very obviously everyone is look at this is immediately gone. Like part of this obviously is about like trying to defeat any attempt to even moderately reform the police, but a lot of it is also like, yeah,

they're expecting giant they're expecting giant protests this summer. Yeah, and they want to be able to use military assets here. And what they're doing with this, the Secretary of Defense is developing a plan to use military assets like presumably against protesters either that or you know what I mean, Like cercific thing here is like used to prevent crime, which is just like the deployment of the US military against like US Right, that's I think a pretty cut

in dry. They are developing the apparatus through which they are going to attempt to deploy the army against the US citizens in the US.

Speaker 3

Well, and it's also specifically like empowers like individual police officers against any like received restrictions that like local or state officials might be putting on them. Yeah, And I think that's what makes it more super worrying for me. It's like it's like enabling like the police state aspect of like of the of the executive branch saying, hey, like individual cops, we support you more so than whatever

like local jurisdiction you are like under. And if if the local jurisdictions start to like restrict your ability to like to to to do violence, restrict your ability to do your job, we are going to help you to make sure that you have the legal and like physical capacity to continue your job as you see fit.

Speaker 1

We will throw the high dollar lawyers that we have threatened into working for us at these states and municipalities.

Speaker 3

Yeah, both to like defend your individual actions and then also go after the people in charge of you, like like like both of them.

Speaker 8

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah, So it's more like CPD black site shit, like yeah, Nazi gang shit, like you know them just like shooting people. Yeah, Like that's the kind of shit.

Speaker 9

The torture the data sharing, I think is something people should be aware of. The Like that seem to be what I would imagine we'll be funding for more federal fusion centers and then equipping them with like home land security assets, intelligence assets that are already used outside the US. Like that is concerning especially in a climate of like migration crackdown, right, Like this data sharing will help them further target migrants well.

Speaker 3

And this relates to another executive order for protecting American communities from criminal aliens. Basically, it targets sanctuary cities. The Attorney General and the DHS Secretary will publish a list of sanctuary jurisdictions that obstruct the enforcement of federal immigration

law and federal funds. Those districts will be suspended or terminated, and if those districts remain sanctuary districts after officials have been notified of their status, then necessary legal remedies and enforcement measures shall be pursued to quote end these violations.

Section one of this order lists several federal criminal laws that they say are being violated by these sanctuary districts, including quote obstruction of justice on lawfully harboring or hiring illegal aliens, conspiracy against the United States, and conspiracy to

impede federal law enforcement. Assisting aliens in violating federal immigration law could also violate the Racketeer, Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act unquote, So they're even rapid and rico here for state and local officials who are trying to protect immigrants in their communities. There's a few other executive orders I want to mention, including one that requires professional truck drivers

speak English. I think this is actually just to mask the consequences of like the tariffs, with the.

Speaker 1

Fact that a lot of truck drivers are losing their jobs.

Speaker 3

Yes, yeah, so this is to like hide those layoffs or trying to force people to get laid off if they don't speak good enough English, or to like to create pretext to have these layoffs be justified as we see, you know, the shipping industry slowly collapse because of the tariffs. Another order that's just more frustrating, I guess to me and like worrying long term about the future is quote

advancing Artificial Intelligence Education for American youth. And I'm actually going to play a video here of Trump's signing this order.

Speaker 4

This next executive order relates to artificial intelligence educations. There, you've obviously done a lot in the artificial intelligence space already. The basic idea of this executive order is to ensure that we properly train the workforce of the future by ensuring that school children, young Americans are adequately trained in AI tools so that they can be.

Speaker 1

Competitive in the economy.

Speaker 4

Years from now into the future as AI becomes a bigger and bigger deal.

Speaker 6

That's a big deal. US AI is where it seems to be at. We have literally trillions of dollars being invested in AI, and there are some money today. Very smart person said that AI is the way to the future. I don't know if that's right or not, but certainly very smart people are investing in it heavily.

Speaker 3

This clip is super interesting to be he said, demonstrates just how little Trump knows what's really going on. Like this is the first time he's seen this order. He has to get explained to what it is before he signs his name on it. They're just handing him these things and he's just signing papers. He is not like dictating which things he actually wants to happen. He just gets handed stuff and there's cameras on. He's like, hey, this is to help AI with kids, and you're so

smart about AI, mister President. He's like, yes, I am. As he signs his name. The actual text disorder is really freaky. Quote. By fostering AI competency, we will equip our students with the foundational knowledge and skills necessary to

adapt and thrive in an increasing digital society. Early learning and exposure to AI concepts not only demestifies this powerful technology but also sparks curiosity and creativity, preparing students to become active and responsible participants in the workforce of the future. To achieve this vision, we must also invest in our educators and equip them with the tools and knowledge to not only train students about AI, but also to utilize

AI in their classrooms to improve educational outcomes. Unquote James, how do you feel about that at a as a as an educator yourself.

Speaker 9

Probably fifty percent of my time in the classroom right now is trying to explain to people where they shouldn't copy paste the assignment into chat GPD And like every year for the past three or four years, we have dealt with like bots, like students in my class who are not real people. I've dealt with more and more

and more use of AI. It's from people who I think, like the folks who are coming through my classroom now, like many of their like high school years when they should have been getting good solid like writing tuition work during COVID lockdowns, right and so like. I'm not entirely blaming like the folks coming through my class here, but it is it's a fuck situation. That's only getting worse.

Speaker 1

It's fucked.

Speaker 9

It's the like I've been educating people for nearly two decades and like I've never come across anything this bad. It is fundamentally damaging people's engagement with education and their ability to learn.

Speaker 1

It's giving them permanent brain damage. It is life altering their ability to think and in a way that may never be recoverable for a lot of people. Yeah, I don't want to be a boomer. There's data on this. The AI companies have. Microsoft has data on this. It damages people. It needs to.

Speaker 9

Be finding good solutions for that. Writing assignments AI can't write like it's not that hard. But before people come into my mentions right saying like, oh you can use this to detect AI. I can detect it because the assignments it submits a shit. The problem is that people keep using it, like because it's Roberts said that, they're running out of other options, right.

Speaker 3

And they're like really committing to this. The end of the order directs the Secretary of Education to provide grant funding to quote improve educational outcomes using AI, including but not limited to AI based high quality instructional resources, high impact tutoring and college and career pathway exploration advises and navigation.

Speaker 9

Yeah, I mean sadly like these federal and to extend state level too, Like dictats, I guess do impact what you're supposed to put on your syllabus, right, Like, especially for like high school students, these can genuinely impact what high school teachers are supposed to teach. It changes a little bit like once you get to the university level.

And I guess we'll we'll see how this goes. But like this, this genuinely could have a very damaging impact on and it already has had a damaging impact on the US education system.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I have one more thing I want to read here. This is actually a presidential memorandum, not an executive order, but this cause to investigate Democrat and grassroots funding platform Act Blue, a legend quote schemes to launder excessive and

prohibited contributions to political candidates and committees quote. Actlue has been the target of conspiracy theories for years, starting with James o'keef and Elon Musk has recently targeted Act Blue with with bizarre theories on how Act Blue functions and is used to funnel money to like Antifa, and and you know, George Soros money get getting moved over to

all of these you know, Tesla Vandal's crazy stuff. But specifically, Trump is calling the Attorney General and Treasury Secretary to quote investigate allegations regarding the unlawful use of online fundraising platforms to make straw or dummy contributions or foreign contributions to political candidates and committees, and to take appropriate action

to enforce the law unquote. I think this whole thing beyond trying to you know, harm the Democrats' ability to like win elections in the future as a form of collection meddling is also just like a spig smoke screen away from a CNN investigation last year into deceptive practices used by political fundraising platforms Win Red and Act Blue, which found that the Republican platform had more than seven times the fraud complaints sent to the FCC than Act

Blue during the period of twenty twenty two to twenty twenty four, with the fundraising platform targeting aging seniors who thought they were personal friends of the Trump family with propaganda and emails that trick them into signing up for recurring donations. And what they thought was a personal correspondence to President Trump. It's a really worrying investigation. It'll be

linked below. And like, you know, meanwhile, you have Elon Musk literally offering people millions of dollars to like get people to sign up to vote and sign petitions. And and yet they're gonna try to try to investigate, you know, fraud in Democrat and grassroots fundraising, which I'm sure there is a little bit of, but according to this investigation by CNN, so much more fraud on the on the

on the Republican fundraising platform. You know, there is actually one Democrat who we can verifiably claim did a bunch of weird fundraising ship and did straw donations from foreign donors. And it is Eric Adams, who is Trump's favorite Democrat. Trump is personally keeping out of prison. Oh gotastic. Anyway, that is the that's the flurry. We're gonna go one more break and then come back to close out on some immigration and tariff updates.

Speaker 12

Hell yeah, we're back.

Speaker 1

And wait, what's that? Do you hear? The dulcet tones of an angel?

Speaker 5

Sorry locking jazz rocky jazz Bart Sorry lock.

Speaker 12

Locking jazz rocking jazz.

Speaker 5

Bo We're gonna get to the rest of the class catalog.

Speaker 1

We got four years. Yes, yes, I'm really looking for secrating the temp. We're working on a cover of Lost in the supermarket where there's just nothing in the supermarket because of the terriffs. It's actually very easy to find my way around in the supermarket now because there's nothing on sone.

Speaker 2

So, all right, what's actually happening with with the Turff tariffs. I'm gonna I'm just gonna start by reading Trump's incredible cope about why everything's going to shit. This is Trump, This is a truth from true social This is Biden's stock market, not Trumps. They didn't take over until January twentieth. Terrorifts will start kicking in. We soon start kicking in, and companies are starting to move to the US and record numbers. Our country will boom, but we have to

get rid of the Biden quote overhang. This will take a while, has nothing to do with the tariffs all caps, only that he left us with bad numbers. But when the boom begins, it will be like no other.

Speaker 1

Be patient.

Speaker 3

This is Biden's stock market.

Speaker 5

Yeah.

Speaker 2

So the reason he's saying this is that So today we got a report that the US for the first quarter suffered the first like actual economic contraction of the economy since like twenty twenty two, and that basically there was like one quarter in twenty twenty two. We're contracted, and and it like basically since like the lockdowns, it's

been expanding. We are probably already in the recession. And the other thing there's think that's very important to note here, right is you're seeing a lot of reporting about this being a contraction, and a lot of the reporting we'll talk about how like, yeah, this is because people are like rushing to do their all their imports right now before the tariff's hit. The thing is, right, this economic contraction is like before the actual substantive impact of the

tariff's hit. So this is just the beginning of like the rolling economic collapse, and all of these turf tariffs

are going to generate. There's been a little bit of movement in the sense that like, Okay, so when I last talked about sort of the declines in like shipping from China or just shipping in general, it was mostly like sort of I don't know what you'd call them, chipping industry, trade press this has hit like the mainstream press now that you know, and some of these indicators are doing sixty percent import drops from China, and it looks like China is maybe kind of starting the preliminary

things to figure out how to figure out negotiations, and that they've been the Chinese government has been going behind the scenes and talking to a bunch of like high profile American companies and has been like quietly repealing some of their one hundred and twenty five percent retaliatory tariffs in the US on like very specific goods. We'll see what happens there. There hasn't been more movement than that.

What is also very interesting is that so okay, so like obviously like a bunch of prices are just increasing already in places like like Temu and like Sian And Amazon was going to have like a counter that showed how much additional money you were spending because of the tariffs, and they announced they were going to do this, and then President Trump like got on the phone with Jeff Bezos and yelled at him, and then Jeff Bezos said

he wasn't gonna do it. But this is also an interesting thing because we're actually starting to see cracks between Trump and like people like bezis, like the tech people can really have been his like closest basis support right for this whole the entire project in terms of like sect like large scale sectors of capital, it's been these

people who've been backing him. And I think as as the stuff continues, we're going to continue to see rifts between them and the Trump administration over shit like this, because you know, like people get really really is something we've talked about a lot in episodes we've done on pricing and inflation, is that people get really pissed off and prices go up, and that's a way to like, you know, this is a problem for these companies because this is the way you lose sort of brand loyalty,

and that's like how everything goes to shit. And Trump has to is doing all these deflections to be like it's not actually the terrorifts that are doing this because people are gonna be really pissed about this and yeah, I don't know, welcome, Welcome to quarter one of the recession. This is going to be the best quarter of the economy for a long time.

Speaker 9

Yeah, tariff talk, Okay, so it's cuds out with immigration update. I'm just gonna run a few speed run a few of these, and we'll get a bill deep in some of them. The New York Times is reporting that once again, the Trump administration is separating, has separated a child from their parents.

Speaker 2

Jesus fucking Christ YEP.

Speaker 9

A federal court denied the government's motion to dismiss a First Amendment challenge to its policy of deporting pro Palestine anti genocide activists. So that allows the case to go ahead, right, So it allows a First Amendment challenge to be mounted, which is a good thing, right, given that this is like their policy right now, is a frontal assault on

the First Amendment for people who are not citizens. In the Brego Garcia case, both sides agreed to a seven day pause in the discovery process after the passing of sealed motions. Then on Tuesday, Tuesday this week, the DOJ filed another sealed motion. We can speculate, and you will see people speculating if you go into the blue skuy or Twitter or whatever. I don't think it's beneficial to do that in this case. Right, what we should be focusing is that a man is in a prison camp

who did nothing wrong. It doesn't matter that justice system is continuing to fail him, because he is still there and so are hundreds of other people. The experimental quote National Defense area in New Mexico. So we spoke last week about the Roosevelt Reservation, right, and they are starting this militarization of the Roosevelt Reservation with an area in New Mexico. And we've seen the first charges that are

filed against migrants. According to Washington Post, at least twenty eight people have been charged or added to their charges a penalty for violation of security regulations in addition to the mad charges entry without inspection.

Speaker 5

Right.

Speaker 9

Hegxeth visited the area this week and he talked about how they were going to post signage in English and Spanish to indicating that crossing the area would be trespassing on US military property. Increasing numbers of migrants over the last few years have not spoken either of those languages. It doesn't seem to be something they've accounted for here. The US Attorney for New Mexico allegedly, according to the Post quote can't wait to begin charging people who cross.

So that's great, and so it does seem that they are using this. As we talked about a week or so ago as a way to quickly charge and then deport people who are entering the United States between ports of entry.

Speaker 1

And other court news.

Speaker 9

A judging Colorado places attentative restraining order on the use of the Alien Enemies Act there without twenty one days of notice in a language of person understands advising them of their right to bring a Habeast challenge. So that means if someone is going to be removed under the AEA right, they have to get three weeks of notice, and that notice has to advise them that they have the right to bring a challenge and then as opposed to what they're doing right now, which is deporting people

extremely quickly. Right And this was upheld by the Tenth Circuit, so that's in place there. It'll be interesting to see how many of them are able to bring. Still, bringing a habeas challenge is complicated. It could be expensive and require a lot of legal time, and I know most lawyers who work in immigration are overwhelmed.

Speaker 1

Currently.

Speaker 9

Yes, in California, a judge has ruled that CBP can't carry out warrantless stops and arrests after the ACLU filed a suit in response to the CBP sector's operation returned to sender, which happened in late twenty twenty four. So people, this is one of the things that people may have already forgotten about. But in December of twenty twenty four, CBP started detaining residents, migrants, laborers outside a home depot, a grocery store, and at road checkpoints up in California

Central Valley. Right, people are thinking, oh, the Central Valley is a very long way from El Centro, what are they doing up there. I've included a map of border Patrol sectors in the sources today so people can see. But although the l Center sector only spans seventy one miles of linear border, it goes a lot further north. So that's what they were doing out there. The judge in this case, who is US District Court Judge Jennifer Thurston, quote, you just can't walk up to people with brown skin

and say give me your papers. There's a very good reporting on this in cow Matters, which I have also linked in the sources today. Notably, I looked through the order today, the core order, and one of the things we get is kind of a vision into how border

patrol is expediting these deportations. Right, So I'm going to quote from the order here, quote, once Border Patrol agents transported the people they're rested to the El Centro station, they would quote extract voluntary departure agreements from as many people as possible without explaining the consequences.

Speaker 2

And this is all that.

Speaker 1

This is the Plaincliff's contention, which is aclu.

Speaker 5

Right.

Speaker 9

So we've seen this a lot, right, like we saw it in the case when they detained a citizen in Tucson not so long ago. That they're trying to get people to sign these documents. Sometimes you're not actually, in most cases, I believe you're not actually signing a physical document.

You're signing one of those little pad screens, and you might be given an iPad to read the document on, but you don't get a chance to look and flick through the document and then sign it left, sign a physical copy of the document.

Speaker 3

Right.

Speaker 9

The injunction that happened here only applies in the Eastern District of California. The judge also ordered Border Patrol to record all arrests and stops and report them within forty days. The government argued this would be too burdensome, which is odd because they're already required to do paperwork when they're arrest or stop someone, right, but that was a rule by the judge. Despite this, so the old Central Sector has still been carrying out operations way north of land border,

including recently outside a home depot in Pomona. So this is CBP not ICE, right for people are familiar with that distinction. But at least in the Eastern district, they can't be stopping people now without warrants, So that's a good thing from the courts. I guess those are I know, we've got a long episode today. Those are the most

important immigration things that I've come up with this. I'm sure something will happen between us recording this coming out, but yeah, that's what I've got for you.

Speaker 3

The last thing that we'll mention is that Mosen Motowi, the US screen card holder who was arrested by ICE at his citizenship interview, has been released from ICE custody as of April thirtieth, by order of a Vermont judge. This is really the first piece of good news we've had in relation to Trump's crackdown on Palestinian protesters and student protests. So yeah, Motowi's case will still continue, but you will not be in ice custody for the duration of this case.

Speaker 5

And I think we saw in the Mapood Khalil case the judge has ordered that New Jersey is a correct jurisdiction for that case to proceed. So that offers a possibility of the same that it's essentially the same charge that both of them have right or the same reasoning for trying to remove them, So hopefully we will see a similar result there.

Speaker 3

We'll be following up on both these stories as the progress. But that does it for us today. Here at It Could Happen Here, We reported the news.

Speaker 1

We reported the news. Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the Universe.

Speaker 15

It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com for check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could Happen Here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.

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