It Could Happen Here Weekly 153

A Zone Media.

Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. Oh, welcome back to It could Happen Here a podcast about it happening. Here.

Hello, Thank you for having us.

Hello.

You can bring us on to tell you things that every other expert in the world will say are wrong.

Yeah, yeah, Well.

It's nice to know that we are once again at that point where shit is looking that bad for Alex yep, that it's relevant for us to, uh yeah, get to start.

Doing your media tours.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, hey, well we're I'm enjoying this because I know we're gonna see you next year to have the same conversation.

And I was flashing back to earlier times we've talked. We've probably been like, hey, things are looking bad for Alex.

Oh yeah, my fingers are crossed that he gets a bad batch of supplements and goes on like not a sad murdering spree, but like a cannibal spree, Like he eats three or four people. And then the news like you guys, you guys are on fucking CNN talking about well, actually Alex has been discussing eating people for quite some time. Sure, this is this is really a long story for him. Really, anyone should have seen this coming up. The lighting was

It turns out this supplement, it didn't make him a cannibal. It just brought out that cannibal that was already there.

Yeah, that's what the iodine does first before we get into it. You know, elephant in the room, by which I mean Dan, you look like you're ready to lead the Union Army in a series of Civil War battles. That's a compliment to your facial hair.

So by elephant you mean the tusks. Yes, well, thank you very much. I'm learning to accept compliments. Yeah, I've got a ridiculous handlebar situation that I did as a joke. I got this as a joke to go to undercover to a Tucker Carlson event.

That's an incredible decision.

And then the positive feedback spit too much for me to handle.

It's good.

Well, I mean, this is really changing things for me because prior to seeing this, Jordan would have been my go to if I needed someone to help me burn Atlanta. But now I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, could be either of you.

There's a lot of Civil war jokes, a lot of hitting home runs in the seventies, sure, sure jokes.

So okay, I have a whole subreddit full of people that just photoshot my face on the pictures of rass Button.

So it's what happens.

Speaking of ras Button, he was psychic, and so is Alex. According to Alex. Yeah, yeah, what do you guys want to start here, because like, obviously the big news right now is all of info Wars is up for auction, including apparently Alex is twittering. It sounds like will probably be part of the deal, although I guess that's a little unclear right now.

He's trying to fight that inclusion of the Twitter handle in his bankruptcy estate. But I think almost anybody could make a pretty solid argument that it's company property. Yeah, Like he uses it to broadcast his show. He takes calls on it for his show, Yeah, from Twitter spaces, So like, yeah, he's probably going to lose that fight, and it's probably going to be part of the auction.

Yeah, But I mean, at the same time, him not having it makes it valueless, so it's worthless.

Yeah.

So if I were going to auction it, it would be worth zero dollars, But if I were going to give it to Alex, it would be worth to him millions upon millions of dollars.

And that's the issue here.

Yeah, it does kind of seem and I listened to Alex primarily through you, but it does seem like, from what I'm here on your show, he's kind of more concerned about the Twitter account than the multimillion dollar studio space yeah time.

Yeah, yeah, which actually is kind of funny because I think it belies a lack of confidence. Yeah, because I think if he loses real Alex Jones on Twitter, he could have reeler Alex Jones. Yep.

It doesn't seem like that would be a problem for him. Actually, do you think.

You can't gather this audience back together.

I think that's the problem. He's worried he can't get it back.

Yeah.

Yeah, well and specifically him, Like Elon would tell people to follow him, there'd be a bunch of people with huge accounts saying this is the new Alex yit Like, I really don't think it would be much more than a speed bump. Actually, unfortunately you.

Can think that, but these aren't your friends.

Can't trust Elon fucking Musk help you out.

I do think that there's an abandonment fear possibly, yeah, or some some sort of lack of confidence that like, if this speed bump does hit, I won't be able to rebuild.

Yeah.

No, And it makes sense.

Yeah, I think it's delusional. I think he's totally fine. Start one hundred new Twitter accounts. You'd get a million followers on all of those, agreed.

Yeah, yeah, But I mean he's delusionable about just about everything, so it makes sense that in this case he would be delusional in the wrong direction.

That's true.

Yeah, So yeah, how does this seem to be going? My big concern when I'm when I'm thinking about it, is like, well, there's probably someone rich out there, some like rich asshole, you know, think tank funding oil billionaire that would consider it chump change to buy all this shit up and just give it back to Alex. But my understanding is that that's not actually like a thing you can do in these kind of situations. Although I'm not not an expert.

On it, Oh, I think you can. Yeah.

The trustee has the ability to even say, like if there is if there was like a bid that was from whomever you want to say, like out of nowhere, George Soros, if you.

Like, fucking William Regnery the fifth or whichever rignary were on now, Yeah, yeah.

Ten billion dollars more money than God could imagine. But the trustee you wanted it to stay in right wing billionaire hands. He could give it to somebody who bid six million dollars for it or five, don't.

I don't think that that's actually accurate, fully, And I also don't think that the trustee is beholden to Alex in any way.

I'm saying that.

I'm just saying that there is that level of control that is not just like it's going to the highest bidder.

I understand it. The trustees control in terms of that is more about a minimum bid. Like, if there were higher bids, it would be very difficult to rationalize not taking them if they are from people who have the actual money. Sure, aren't I guess involved with terrorism, sure or something. Unless there is a concrete reason not to accept it, I would be surprised. Yeah, if they didn't accept Soros if he made a bid.

I mean I would be too.

But also, currently we are on surprise number seven and a half thousand.

It's not more.

Yeah, so that would be the least surprising thing if it was a surprising thing.

Yeah, I guess.

So.

I think we're all agreed. Alex isn't going to just shut up and ride into the sunset. He's physically incapable of doing that. Like he would literally literally explode like a soda with mintos dropped into it if that were

Well, I don't know about like specific details, but because his judgment was deemed to be like malicious and intentional, the amount that he owes personally is not dischargeable by bankruptcy. Yeah, so he's in chapter seven bankruptcy now personally, and so he's liquidating all the assets. So he has to sell off the company, which is how we get to the auction in the first place. And so he will sell off these assets to go towards the payment of these people.

Or I mean, if I was him, and based on how things are going for him so far and the direction things are taking, then once this is handled, then he's going to move all of his money to Alex jonestore dot com. And then once they catch him there, he's gonna move all of his money to Alex jonestore dot com two. And then once they catch him there, he's gonna move his stuff to Alex Jones dot com three.

Yeah, Because and him and his lawyers explained that even as part of their legal strategy early on, which is that you exhaust people with delays and to the point where someone's just willing to settle because you're such a pain in the ass. Yeah, And that's just kind of his mode of operation.

Yeah, And every time people have been like, well, clearly you can't continue to be a pain in the ass this way anymore. It won't be allowed. It has instead been allowed, so you can do it.

It's fun.

I don't want to get like in the way of people's you know, celebrating the downfall of Alex Jones. But it does kind of seem like nothing realistically is going to stop him from being rich and being able to talk to an audience of people who are dangerously devoted to his shit. Like none of this is actually going to I'm sure it's unpleasant and stressful, right, but it's not going to stop him. It's just not possible.

Yeah, this is why you get other experts, because I do want to get in the way of people enjoying quote unquote info.

I'm just talking about like when I'm when I'm watching people celebrate on Twitter, like you can't correct everybody. It's like whenever, whenever there's like this info about Alex Jones that people listen to your show, know, like there was a period of time where I would correct people about

Yeah? I see people like posting videos of Alex crying, yeah, and like changing the context of what it is for some post and it's like, you guys are just it's not worth the energy to correct here. Yeah, to your point, though, Jordanan does want to stop people from celebrating and ruining everyone's fun. I'm in the middle, okay. I would like people to be a little half at the time to

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's kind of been a massive waste of everybody's time. But but a lot of lawyers are ever going to make a lot of money, so that's good.

It does seem if I'm going out of my way to kind of look at what are the most positive results of this, Like if I mean, it does look like he's probably going to lose control of all all of the shit that they have to film Info Wars, Right, that won't stop them from filming and doing videos, but maybe they'll look like crap, and maybe that will have an impact on like the degree of credence people give them, you know, like maybe the fact that info Wars has

I think it's also psychologically important for him. Yeah, that might be the most he wants to think he's doing a real show, and without the trappings of a fake CNN studio. It's harder to pretend that you're not just reading Twitter headlines and then getting mad about them. But I do I do feel like this idea that it's a waste of time and everything has been a waste of time. I just want to give a little bit of voice to the fact that it may feel like

Yeah, well, I mean, I just I think we all needed to understand clearly from the beginning what this was, and that would have altered kind of the way that this is perceived. Like if we had all known from the jump, Like if all the lawyers and everybody and all the media had gotten together and been like, listen, this is going to be a moral victory, and it's gonna be good to have this like in public, to have this airing for all of us to see and for the families to have.

I think we would have been fine with that.

The problem was all the rest of the stuff was a waste of everybody's time.

Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah, No, that makes sense to me.

Yeah.

I think if we had just had that, this could all have been banged out in a day.

Really.

Yeah, Like we get everybody in court, everybody gets to say their piece, and then we're done, and Alex gets to remain rich.

It's basically the same thing.

All right, Well, We're gonna keep talking on this, and I'm gonna ask you guys for an update on how Alex is handling the election too. But first, what's all handle some ads and we're back. You know, this is one thing, this is gonna right.

I got to stop you. I can't believe you're running an ad for doctor Jones Natural.

Well, that's just very different, very different naturals. Though, very different naturals. Not we are, we are using that in the porn sense. My okay, My Alex Jones deep fake pornography website is off the ground. For seventy dollars a month. You two can have a subscription Doctor j Jones Shrunk Natural.

Yeah yeah, doctor doctor Jones Supplements.

You have some real trunk naturals.

Honestly, most of what I do is just take clips from the graduate and uh and put him in as the as the male elite. I don't know why.

I don't know why to give people what they want.

Anyway, we made forty million dollars last month.

Damn.

Yeah, we should. We should have stopped with this whole no ads thing.

So I I I want to talk a little bit about how Alex has been handling the election. Because you know, one of the things that's always interesting to me is how his sense about whether or not everyone's doomed to be, you know, murdered by the New World Order and have their corpse disposed of by a robot is not related at all to like how conservatism is doing, how how

Well a spoiler alert in the next episode, he's had a euphorium moment because he's realized that they're gonna win.

They've already won. You've you're far you're way too far behind. Now Tomorrow, of course, they will be losing, and we're all gonna die.

He's a rapid cycling kind of guy.

I don't do that We're gonna win.

Yeah, but I mean I think I think that, you know, we've even talked about this before, this dynamic of like your enemy has to be uh, super strong and then super defeatable and super weak, like all of that must exist simultaneously or else. Yeah, you know his game doesn't really work as well. Yeah, so that that energy is going to keep going until the election.

And also it makes sense.

I mean, I can't imagine the idea of a bunch of professional people coming into my home or place of business and just like cataloging things, just taking each individual pictures, the amount of stress and nervous energy that that would provide. Yeah, like I'd be like I did, I didn't know. I don't know if I needed to clean that. I don't know if I needed to clean it.

She would be getting real.

But yeah, I just like cleaning up my dad's place after he died was like this whole thing of all of these are items that have meaning to our family, and I would be okay burning them all in a fire in.

A pit, right yeah, right, Like I'm just I'm done.

I'm done. So I can't imagine like the sense of fuck it I would have and Alex is, especially if I had Alex Jones money, like he really it's just more evidence that there's a deep sickness involved in all this with him, like he can't stop himself, like yes, go fish or something, bro like go on a nice fishing trip. What are you doing sitting in your office watching your life get picked apart? What a miserable place.

Give everybody the day off. It's great.

Fishing's not going to stop the devil, and that is really uh, you.

Know, fishing is actually how the devil gets out. It's every water is a portal to the fifth dimension of Hell, which is actually the lower fifth. There's a higher fifth dimension where good demons come I mean, angels come out of but then the lower fifth dimension comes up through the pond, and that's where catfish come from.

This is not an Alex theory, but it plausibly could be.

Yeah, I feel like I wasn't far off.

No, no, So how are we? How are we doing with Alex in terms of like one thing I've noticed maybe I have a You can tell me if you agree with my kind of interpretation here is that he seems to be at a little bit of a lower ebb in terms of getting invited on and talking with like much more popular creators. I haven't seen like last year, I felt like I saw him on a lot of stuff, and this year. I don't know if it's just that he's not, you know, as sexy as he was to

I think it's fifty to fifty because I think that there is something to that, Like he was on he's been on more fun stuff before in the past, and it's been it's been a little bit limited this year, but he was just on Tucker's Live show in Pennsylvania, which is about as big as anything he's done. Probably it at least it feels pretty big.

Yeah, it wasn't the two drunk sports guys.

Yeah, no, flagrant two flagrant too. That might have been a few years ago too.

Yeah, my memory is terrible.

He hasn't been back on Rogan. Yeah, you know, there's some big there's some big gaps in terms of like where he feels like he should be appearing. But you know, if you look at the luminaries that were on the Tucker Carlson tour, like him being included in that list of people is pretty you know, that's that's rarefied air.

I mean, unfortunately, I guess it is in a way.

You got RFK Junior, Yeah, you got the vic.

They're consequential people, which is the most desruning part is that these are the dregs of humanity and yet they are very consequential people that we should be paying attention.

It's absolutely infuriating that, Yeah, I have to care about especially fucking Vivac. Yeah, because I ran into him at the fucking RNC and he was being surrounded by a cloud of guys who all looked like Nick Fuintes. Like the only reason I didn't assume one of them was Nick Fuintes is that any one of them could have been Nick Fuintes. And I had to fight this urge.

Just start swinging.

You are my weapon.

So like, where do you where do you see Alex a year from now?

Right?

Like, do you have any kind of expectation for where he's going to be, because like, at some point his dad has to die, which I understand is a pretty important part right now of how he's able to keep money flowing well to his operation the face of the judgment, right.

His dad and his brother in law both run. Okay, the Doctor Jones naturals, So even if Old David Jones catch the bucket, his brother is still going to be there. So I think, I think Alex is fine. But he almost killed his dad with COVID.

Yeah yeah, I am surprised Doctor Jones lived through that, given alexis.

Yeah gorilla sitting on his chest, Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think it is a little bit of a testament to how insane and how the best torture for Alex is just being cursed with being Alex is. Like if I was in this scenario where I plausibly have a reason to never touch or talk about money again, and yet still make the almost exact same amount of it.

That would be perfect. That's just taking a job away from me right now.

It's my dad's problem to look at the sales numbers.

Dr tr anywhere else.

That's not a good ad man. That's the thing you can do a good read.

Yeah, if Alex is the face guy, doctor Jones handles the business, that means that Alex doesn't have to do both.

It makes perfect sense.

But to your question, though, like I really do feel like right now we're in the most chaotic possible moment because you have these two things that could go any direction that are happening around the same time. Like you have the election, and then you also have the auction, right, and if Trump wins or loses, there's a lot of

Yeah, and that's just because of him. He's just a real miserable piece of shit.

Yeah, I spend a lot of time thinking about his bee cast and how they might do because I again, I I don't see a world in which Alex gives up what he's doing. But I do see a world in which he can no longer pay Owen Schroyer.

Uh.

And that's that's the truth, that's the true goal, when it's.

Not making what a heartbreaking amount of money. I'm sure more further into the six figures than Owen Shrotier ot to be.

I wonder what the deal with him would be though, Like he went to jail for Alex.

God, it's true, he sure did.

He did. Time, Like what could he tell if he was off the payroll or you know, like or how much do you pay to keep him on the payroll? Because he's the kind of guy who went to jail for you.

I mean, if you look at a I mean, David Knight's not going to jail for you. But if that's if that's a comparable exit for a personal popularity, I don't think Owen's got much of a shot.

Yeah, I think he can be tossed into the ocean.

But I think Chase Chase Geyser is more of a beat player than Owen.

We just have a personal he just Chase Geyser is a new character who's popped up in the later seasons of the show.

Yeah, and he's.

Really brought a new He's brought a lot of a late season juice to it that I think we needed.

Yeah, it's better than No One though, that's fr Yeah.

See I was going to say, it's like when Fraser brought on all those British people. But speaking of British people, our sponsors might be British. We don't check and we're back. Okay, guys, So I guess, kind of closing stuff out, what do you think this year have been the big pieces of Alex misinformation that you've seen people spreading online? Like, what's kind of been your biggest I'm guessing this is gonna be a Jordan heavy question, but.

Like stuff about Alex or stuff yeah, yeah, yeah, stuff about Alex that's like specifically, what kind of stuff have you heard, like people in media saying about Alex this year that has pissed you off the most? I Mean, the funny part of this question is that I've actually left the Internet about as much as possible because of the rage that the rage that I feel at this very situation.

A wise move.

Yeah, So, I honestly, I think I think the big thing for me personally is just the if we are going to talk about Alex's auction, then to me, what we're talking about is how much money the families are going to receive. That's to me in my head of if we're gonna talk money, then what we should talk

That's just that's just probably.

True, I would say, if not guaranteed true at this point, unless of course Mark Cuban or somebody a billionaire shows up and showers them with money. But for the most part, it's it's like, the end goals should be the families, they should be first, but that's the wrong thing.

They're the last. So it's very annoying, it's very frustrating.

Yeah, that is especially given that, like that's the whole reason for the suit, Like that's.

The whole reason for the season.

But I mean, obviously the system is not conducted to benefit family last who are suffering. That's not who makes the rules, that's not who operates the system. The system. Yeah, okay, we don't need to rant about that. It is a bummer, Dan, what about you?

I mean, maybe it's recency bias and stuff, but like, I do think that the conversation around the auction is missing a little bit of the point, whether it be in terms of you know, what the sale is, like you were bringing up Jordan, or like people thinking that there is a solution to the problem that Alex represents, Like this isn't going to be like a ding Dong

Yeah.

Yeah, it's almost never it.

I mean, I want to say this and I want people to recognize that this is true in regards to this scenario. You are never going to come. You're never going to come. It's never going to happen. You're going to be perpetually close, and then you're not gonna make it, and then you're gonna come back. That's how it is.

If you're into edging, Alex is the guy to follow.

Yeah, it's perfect.

So I think that that's actually really good advice. Like if you if you just as a layman, are hearing people talk about Alex Jones on social media or like seeing some sort of like opinion column or whatever and some you know, left wing or liberal rag and you

I don't even know.

I wouldn't believe that article. I wouldn't believe a word in that article.

They're lying, well, you take that illness with doctor Marbles to.

Get out, Yes, exactly.

The deposition of them, so like he you know, fu fuck even that. Yeah, I think I look at it slightly differently, and that is that I do predict that there will be a massive change. We just don't know what it'll be. Sure like there'll be something. He's got to do something, because his content is really stagnant and a bit uninteresting in the Trump sense. Yeah, and I do. I think that there is a change that will be

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I imagine that predicting anything in the next sixty days is going to be a ridiculous proposition. If you had predicted a new hurricane fucking two weeks ago, people would have thought you were crazy.

Yeah, well I think that's all I had to ask. Guys, anything you wanted to plug will bring up before we close out.

Uh no, just we exist to where we have a show.

I'll check out Knowledge Fight. It's my favorite podcast. It's the only only reasonable way to keep up with Alex Jones and a whole network of other con men and grifters who who kind of latch onto him like that fish that lives on the underside of a shark, except for Alex. Alex is also a remora or remera. Right, So it's just like a It's like a just a series of smaller and smaller ones, each sucking each other off.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

And Alex is latched onto the side of a crew ship toilet. Yeah, there were more on the cruise ship toilet.

Yeah, you've now turned this into a human centipede situation. I have, I have.

I don't know why again again, it's all this is all viral marketing for doctor Jones's Big Naturals.

Now figured out an appropriate punishment for defamation of character human centipedes.

Yeah, I've been saying that for years years.

Yeah, I feel like and I do have to point this out. Sure, that is both cruel and very unusual.

It is perhaps the most unusual thing you could imagine.

Really, I hate to say, but somebody, it would it would take like some of these people three months to have several thousand people convinced that human centipeding is like a mental health hack, like it's it's it's like getting rid of seed oils. You know, that's how you accelerate muscle development.

Right, yeah, yeah.

Ancient cavemen were always eating each other ship you know what You've also you've also made a very good point.

If you this this whole thing. If you want to stop Alex, Alex is a symptom. Alex is a symptom of the larger problem. You need to regulate supplements, Yes, FDA approved supplements.

We'll get rid of most of these guys every podcast episode we can. We are pushing the line. In my dream. If I accomplish one thing in my life, it would be getting this to become widely agreed upon by liberals and the left. Regulate supplements, allowed direct sales of cars to consumers yep, and ban MLMs, and prosecute people criminally for trying to operate them. Do that, and you fix a lot of other problems.

I would do something about precious metals businesses too, I would throw that.

Well. Hey, now, hey, now, Mike Lindell's giving us some gold money. Sir, right, you just wait wait right there untill he runs out.

Dan, pillow sales are illegal, also, I should.

Pillows are illegal? Makes your neck week Yep, all right, everybody listen to knowledge by Thank you, Dan and Jordan. As always, we'll be back tomorrow with some other episode of this podcast that we do every day.

Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison. This is a little special episode today. I'm joined by Alex from Corvalis Antifa and Hank, who's using a pseudonym for personal safety from the Left Coast Right Watch Team. Hello to you both, and thank you so much for joining me.

Hey, what's happening? Thank you so much for having us, Thanks for having us.

Good to be here.

So today we're gonna be talking about this group called White Lives Matter. I guess originally White Lives Matter was like a slogan and like a very a very loose group from like twenty fifteen, or at least it kind of started in twenty fifteen as a reaction to the

Al Right, Yeah, so there was a formation that was kind of like an NSM splinter formation that happened in an in reaction to the initial Black Lives Matter protests in twenty fifteen. The White Lives Matter that we're talking about today is a different formation entirely that utilizes sort of the same slogan. They are a group that started in like twenty twenty one and have been organizing primarily on telegram and have grown really rapidly across the country of the years since.

Yeah, like we can see the early use of this phrase spread by you mentioned the National Socialist Movement, along with a few other kind of collection of neo Nazis, the Aryan Resistance Society and the Aryan Nationalist Alliance. But then things kind of like died down. It was just it was like a slogan you could see at rallies, but it wasn't it wasn't anything like too prominent, honestly.

Yeah.

So White Lives Matter as a national organization is extremely like conscious of what they would describe as like their optics. They are very intent on like radicalizing who they perceive to be everyday white people into sort of fascist politics. And in their national level manuals and the materials that they provide the leaders of statewide organizations, they specifically talk about stuff like not displaying Nazi flags or using like

Yeah, and like one other thing that's pointed out in the in the Crabalis and Tifa article is like they don't just do agit prop, Like they're not just a group that is composed of only doing stickering. There's been multiple instances when their online propaganda as well as their like in person stickering, escalates to real to real violence. Last year, a twenty eight year old from New Jersey

It's also important to talk about like the ways that WLM is organizationally connected to like more like scary elements of the neo Nazi right. Recently, Left Coast Right Watch published proof that Matthew Allison, who was one of the leaders of the Terrogram collective who was recently arrested, was responsible for some of the national WLM like propaganda that

Like terrorists yep, specifically try to like groom people into becoming mass shooters. Yes, I mean, and like that's why I think specifically with both these guys who did physical violence, you can see violence as like it as like an escalatory thing for the person who's like doing it right, you start off with throwing am al top cocktail, and then later you might do a mass shooting. It's like a testing ground. You can see the same thing with

Yeah, So, the way that WOLM works as a national organization is there's like a series of groups that all kind of are extant, like they there are groups, and then people would like apply to be with the national org to be like a leader of a state group.

Yeah.

Then earlier this year we noticed that somebody had taken over the chapter and had started engaging in some stickering and some propaganda. So we were like, well, you know, we may as well join this group and see what's up. So we infiltrated the organization, gathered information about the membership, and published that information online in order to warn the

So it looks like, according to a research the new leader is this guy named Cruz. Dean Walters.

Yeah, yeah, so Cruz is marine kind of wash out who lives in McMinnville, Oregon. Until very recently was living a double life. He was living with his mom and his fiance, neither of who knew about his racist beliefs and now knew he was a highly incompetent leader who you know, really had a tremendous number of security flaws in his organization, you know, as is evidenced by the fact that we were able to you know, infiltrate and destroy it in a matter of just a few months.

I wanted to ask specifically about Cruise's radicalization. It's written in your piece that he was radicalized in part by the GDL, the Going Defense League, and participated in the city council desk squads, as reported by our own Molly Conger, and then just seemingly like just getting bored of just calling into city council meetings to Yelsler's he then like

Yeah, so he, I think was just kind of like sitting on the internet as like a fucking, you know, dorky, lonely, sad little man, and you know, got into the GDL. For those who have the fortune of not knowing, the GDL is sort of this network of like really grotesque, highly cringey racist Twitch streamers or not on Twitch anymore, but like you know there's streamers.

Nonetheless, they've been banned from Twitch. But yeah, but.

Yeah, so they have this program called the City Council Death Squad where they will like call into like your local city council meeting and just like yellow slurs at the bleeder municipal employees that have to sit and watch. They did one Corvalis and like watching the footage was just like watching like these like grown men acting like children, like you know, hollering at like random like city councilor

Yeah.

Absolutely, it definitely feels like the lazy person's option who doesn't want to go through the work of being vetted by like actual, like larger organizations.

Yeah, and he he took over the chapter from an even lazier Nazi named Christian Coats who lives in Portland, Orion, who is like this old school bonehead from the two thousands who like has some hate crime charges from like I think like attempting to and failing to assault some black teams in like two thousand and seven. So Christian had in the interceding years between us destroying the initial iteration of w Olm taking it over and basically done like zilch with it. He posts like one photo on

Yeah.

One of the other guys that you've identified is I don't know how to say his last name, but Casey I want to say Nutson.

Oh yeah, Casey Knutson, who.

After being kicked out of both the Proud Boys and Patriot Front, made his own group in twenty twenty two, the Rose City Nationalists, which is kind of the laughing stock of all white pharmacist groups in the PNW, and the group has the group has largely fallen apart after being just extensively investigated and exposed by local antie fascists almost to a comical extent.

Yeah, ourselves, Rose City Antifa and the Stufftown Research Collective have been kind of going through and just you know, ripping apart. RCN and RCIEN is at this point more or less just Casey and this fella named Jared Huber who is an absolute like freak. He's got a bunch of tattoos all over his face. He was arrested for kicking a puppy nearly to death and beating up his grandfather. Just real scumbag.

Jesus Christ.

Yeah, they all have like domestic violence charges and you know.

Are just yes.

Real nightmare folks. The funniest thing about Rose City Nationalists is they gotten this conflict with the Proud Boys that I believe it was in Oregon City where they got just absolutely washed by some drunken Proud Boys on the street. Not because of like ideological issues, but just because they like have you know, interpersonal issues between Casey and the Portland chapter of the Proud Boys.

It was.

You know, they are truly just a laughing stock and are just like you know, I hate to use the term, but kind of like locals at this point.

No, I mean and one thing that you do, like document is just how many of these guys are like domestic abusers, and like this is not uncommon for like these types of fellows. But also Cruise like both admitted to stealing a gun and also abusing his wife and threatening other family with firearms. And this is like a trend across as so many of the people exposed in these articles. Is the extent to which they're all in

Yeah, misogyny is you know, one of the very very core parts of neo Nazism and white nationalism. And yeah, there's a really really horrible like section of texts in art article that where Cruz discusses like physically hitting his fiance and then threatening his brother with a firearm. And yeah, it's really really common that these people have domestic abuse charges. Multiple people in w lam Oregon have histories of domestic abuse, including Jaron Huber and Casey Knutson, who are the two

I'd like to talk now about the second in command of White Lives Matter Oregon, this small business owner in Couse Bay named Michael Witt Gaiton Byne who usually just goes by Wit. Now, Witt has been a part of the White Lives Matter Oregon banner drops, and that was also responsible for a lot of the stickering that gets done as he leaves stickers across the truck stop bathrooms up and down the coast. Now, WIT's kind of a

Yeah, so what is a Nazi?

And I believe his mother is actually you know, he said at one point his mother was like quote awakened.

To the truth about the Jews or something like that.

So he seems to come from at the very least an anti Semitic family. But he himself is certainly a Nazi, and I think he has believed he can operate with impunity in kous Bay. So I think it's less that he has bad op second, more believes he seems to think of himself as living in a world where it's okay to be a Nazi. Sure, we can talk a little bit more about that, but yeah, he runs a company called Wit Industries, which he's claimed does business from

That's just what we've found so far.

It can be pretty difficult to find, you know, even though this is public money, it can still be sort of a pretty difficult process to get public records and things like that.

But you know, we know that the Port of kus Bay.

Alone has awarded him like two hundred nineteen thousand dollars in contracts for work ranging from hydraulics repairs and replacements on vessels on the bridge. He's also pained the state dredge and the trailer and things like that.

You mentioned him using his work vehicle.

So he he has.

Stated, and this is from you know, information we have from the Cornellis INTI for infiltration. He stated that part of his goal is to build a white supremacist called in Coos Bay. He wants to get guys elected to mayor and city council and things like that. And he actually was using White Lives Matter to recruit guys to come and work for him. He was recruiting a guy named wand And Calhoun, who is also an alleged pedophile.

And as far as we know, it does.

Appear that Landon has moved there, who's planning to move there in this fall, and we believe he's currently there.

Yeah.

I like to kind of go by some of these points one by one because he's he's certainly like a worrying figure. The fact that he's using his income, which is largely derived of government contracts, to like specif defictly, like fund white Ermas detectivity in the PNW, and like use his own company resources to grow the number of far right extremists in cus Bay, specifically his plans of like having them eventually like occupied positions of local government.

I know.

He stated that one of his employees like prints out all of his White Lives Matter stickers and has gotten help from employees to do one banner drop outside of Roseberg, and has a history of hiring far right people, conspiracy theorists and like monetarily supporting them to like help them continue their own far right activism.

Yeah, and you mentioned his employees that were printing the stickers for him. That was before he hired Landon, So yeah, he already has guys that are that are doing this and the port. I think it's important to point out that the point of cou'se bay, it's public body. The commissioners are elected by the governor and they're confirmed by the organ Senate you know, or yeah, the Moorgan.

Senate, I believe it is.

So this is a state body that is giving state funding to this Nazi and I think that's really important to name.

It's also like just to give people a.

Little bit of the geography, because it's a small town that actually geographically takes quite.

A while to like drive from North Bend to Coos Bay.

And Witt lives right over by the Charleston Marina, and we know he's pretty in bed with the marina folks.

There.

There was a big organ Department of Transportation grant to the state level that the port had written that Wit would have been one of the.

Like people making money. He was like written.

Officially into this grant for it was a three point five million dollar grant that.

Wit was written into, right, so.

They're like his friends, you know, like they're like, yeah.

They're writing him into these grants. Witt's office is.

Over there on Ocean View Boulevard, which is right next to the Confenrated Tribes of Kuzler m Quan sayslaw Indians tribal housing office, and right next to one of their casinos. And just to give folks the terrain of where he's living and kind of operate and too.

Yeah, hello Garrison from the future, just to cutting in to say something that Hank said, but I got a little bit garbled in the voice modulation. So I just want to stay at a little bit more clearly here, there's some other events that can help contextualize what WIT is doing in Kuse Bay, because currently in Kous County there's this sort of intense far right power grab that is slowly happening. Some people might know of this radio

Yeah.

I think one thing that is important to just like throw onto what Hank is saying about Who's Bay as a contested space is like it's not entirely unheard of for neo Nazis to kind of try to do these projects of like moving a bunch of people to certain usually rural areas to you know, try to take them over, you know, most notably like Leaf, North Dakota, where Crane

Yeah, and especially with someone like Michael here, because he's like hiring people who advocate going much farther than white lives matter to actually engage in like paramilitary training, hiring someone who is like not just accused of being a pedophile, but has admitted to Michael that his family like hates him because of an allegation that he's that he's touched someone and that Michael himself witnessed this guy Calhoun being quote unquote hands on with an eight year old girl

And then there are.

Multi million and multi billion dollar government projects to improve the port that is expected to receive funds from. And I feel like this is something that's pretty pretty objectionable and it should be easy to stop, but it requires like attention and it requires a degree of public pressure to make sure that the government, both state and federal, are not giving funds to like an explicit neo Nazi who hires alleged pedophiles to fund like right wing activism across the Pacific Northwest.

Yeah, totally.

And I think it's important to point out too, like you know, kus Bay is in this process. They have the intermodal Port of Kus Bay, which is like a two point three billion dollar project where they want to become like, you know, they want to be as big of a port as Oakland, California or whatever. And you know, one of the things, I mean, my understanding from talking to folks in Cuz Bay is that it's just greenwashed capitalism that will be destructive to the environment.

It won't actually bring the community the.

Kind of like are like what about bike lanes, you know, like there's like community infrastructure people want in cus Bay and dredging the port is not that, you know.

And I think there's also like a couple of examples of that is it.

Will destroy eel grass, which is a really important marine habitat and also source of storage carbon. It will destroy indigenous cultural resources or impact those spaces. And you know, we haven't seen the exact financials yet for what this project will be, but it's a two point three billion dollar project that involves dredging, you know, which is sort of deepening and widening.

The port and the channels.

And we know that Witt has gotten money, for example, to work on the state dredge and do work on it so I think it's very possible that wit would be until the Port takes the stand and says, hey, we're not funding this nazi who uses his work truck to do Nazi stuff. I think people should be really concerned about this port money going back to help build or not community that he's trying to build there.

Yeah, and like to your previous point, like the fact that he's able to be so flagrant about his white supremacist beliefs, the way that he doesn't feel like he needs to care about OPSEC because he has a job that's like irreplaceable, Like he provides a service to this community that he feels like no one else can do.

Yeah, you know, I think just to add to like, like groups like the Organ's Bay Area, which is like a popular Facebook group has been doing a really great job like raising.

Just talking about and what's going on.

I think largely we really haven't seen much response from the Port of Cosbe or the governor who's confirming these commissioners, Like largely the sort of institutions of power are not yet responding, and so I think that's something that with local folks in KUSBEI could be pressuring. And also at a statewide level, right Like this is state funding and the Port of Caussebae development has.

Federal funding too.

But I think those are places where where there could really be a lot more pressure being applied, and I think a lot more people should be talking about all of this as well.

As we mentioned earlier.

You know, WIT claims to have a reputation and work and contracts all up and down the entire West coast. So certainly if there are listeners in here in Oakland or Alaska or Washington.

Or wherever you might be who know the name.

With GAT and Bne or WIT Industries and you want to send in a tip to Cornella's Antifa or whatever Marco's right watch, we would be really happy to hear what you know about this guy, because we know we know he's working in other communities. We we would love details or any tips folks might have.

Yeah, would either of you like to kind of add anything else?

Before we close out and point to people towards both your work and where to send.

Yeah, I guess the thing that I would just close out with is WLM is not just an organ problem, it's a national problem. I know, this podcast reaches folks all across the country. If you are somebody who is Antifa curious or is interested in making a difference in your community, it's a group with really terrible security culture, and it might be worth taking a gander at that. And then, you know, God, it feels so silly to do a podcast plug, but please check out our work

Thank Yeah, I'll just add you know, if you want to see the of course, the LEFTUS Right Watch article gives a really deep dive on what and also information for public.

Use has posted like the financials, so if you.

Really want to like get into the numbers, it's worth looking there. And yeah, just to reiterate, I mean, I think kus Bay and so many other places are really contested spaces, and I think these Nazis want us to believe that they're in charge and that they're powerful, and they have this idea that they can operate with impunity, and it's really not true. Like we've seen small and rural towns take down Nazis all over this country, and

Colonization, that's the history of Oregon specifically. So yeah, it's a time to do something else.

Yeah, And Antifa isn't just for you big city folk, you know, those must live in rural communities can and should be involved in these struggles, and it is something that like is not just something that happens in Portland.

People in rural orient are.

Doing anti fascism and will continue to do it and will continue to win.

Thank you both so much.

I will leave links to your orgs and your and your articles in the description below. Thank you for listening. And yeah, if you are antifa curious, give it a shot. It is indeed fun.

What Brett my cavanaughs. I'm Robert Evans, and this is it could happen here? A podcast about it happening here with me today is Sophie Lichterman and Mia Wong. We're going to be talking about a guy who is near and dear to my heart because the second to the last conversation I ever had with my mom was about Brett Kavanaugh. Mia, what are we gonna learn today?

Oh?

Boy, God, have you done the what's breading my Kavanaugh before?

Like?

I'm certain I haven't. Why would I have?

I don't know if I oddly familiar? So if he has, somebody let me know. Thank you.

Yeah.

Tell us the good and the bad.

Yeah, we already know the ugly. Yeah, I'm body shaming Brett Kavanaugh. Yeah that's right, motherfucker.

That's right, motherfucker. The worst thing he consequences he's ever going to suffer are this bad news cycle and me saying something that's not legally defamatory, and if he wants to fucking prove it, you could sue me over it.

He has a sweet gig for life. Yeah, he's set, is set, bro.

Yeah, Yeah, he sucks so bad that even like you know, Midwest dads hate him, so at least there's that.

Yeah, he's he's really rad sid And so I think I think the place to start with this actually is not with Kavanaugh, but with Trump, because what we're talking about today is a thing that we kind of knew was true but didn't know the extent of until now, which is that the supposed FBI investigation into everything that Brett Kavanaugh did was like fake and deliberately fucked by Trump specifically, Like this is Trump specifically told them to just like not do the investigation, and so they didn't

Yeah, he sucks the worst guy, a real dick.

Yeah, But I think the everything about him is like I feel like everyone has forgotten what it was like to live under Trump. I agree, because there was just so much shit happening all the time, Like every single every single day was like a new one of these things. And I want to go back to what like one week of Trump was like, because every single fucking week was like this, and it was the most miserable thing.

So love that these guys keep getting jobs as opposed to I don't know, getting the punishment for treason.

And he's only fifty nine years old. Yeah, he's so young for that job. We have like forty more years of him.

If you ever wanted like a clear reason why we shouldn't do things like the death penalty for treason, it's because when people commit treason, nothing happens to them, and when people I don't know agitate for Puerto Rican independence, they get executed. Like that's that's what happens with those laws. I just bad avoid laws existing.

Yeah, and especially avoid all of your laws being dictated by a bunch of a bunch of fucking serial predators. Yeah, and this gets us too. So Kevinaugh's appointment was very very close. The Republicans at the time they controlled the Senate, but they had a fifty two to forty eight margin, and a lot of those kind kind of marginal senators were like.

There was there was a more realistic chance of it not happening then typically Yeah, but they still fucked it in the end.

Oh yeah, of course. But you know the reason, the reason why it was close. Is as I think most people probably remember, Kavanaugh is a serial sexual predator. He has sexually assaulted so many fucking people. People saw him do it. There were times when he was the only fucking person there he did there were times when we did it in crowds. He definitely one hundred percent did it. And if he wants to fucking sue me about it, like, I'll see you in court, motherfucker.

And while we're here, Clarence Thomas also a predator, thank you.

We're going to get to that.

Let's let's be clear here, Like if we're doing an Olympics of predators, Clarence Thomas is up in the number one spot. Brett Kavanaugh's down in place three. You know, Thomas is a much, much more I don't know, expansive predator.

Yeah, there was some belief at the time in this is sort of like every single article about this like talks about how this is peakb too, but it is of important that like this, it was a real possibility that he was going to go down in flames. Yeah, it has happened before, it can happen again, and it

Horrific.

Yeah. The thing I stuck with b was like he was laughing while he did it. It's just like, this guy is a fucking monster.

I Mean. One of the things that you do have to take into account is that, like the media infrastructure that world up to defend Brett Kavanaugh to ensure that this didn't take him down existed in part because about a third of right wing media, like about a third of that whole infrastructure system exists because of the Clarence Thomas hearings. Ye, Like that and Nixon's resignation being for are kind of the two two inciting incidents of modern

Yeah. Yeah, And also, I mean it's worth noting too that like Roger ayles Off, who is like one of the people responsible for building all this infrastructure, was also himself just a serial predator on a like frankly incomprehensible scale. Yes, And so all these people were also just defending themselves because they also are all fucking their own sometimes miniature capital,

Yeah.

It's like it's like thirty pages. It's actually not third it's more like twenty pages because like a bunch of the mergercizations, so it's pretty easy read. I'm going to read some of it. And also I do want to point out the fact that the Senate Judiciary Committee member who wrote this thing is named Sheldon white House. Incredible name, incredible center.

That is a great name. Where does that come from? That can't be a real name. That can't be a name that existed. That can't be a name that existed before the White House, right, Like it has to have at some point been named after the White House, right, I mean, why else would you have that name?

Well, it could just be that this family historically lived in a White House for seven hundred years.

You'd have to be in a White House for a long ass time to get.

That last name. So here's from the report quote after hearing the testimony by Ford and Kavanaugh, the Judiciary Committee agreed to request the FBI he knocked a supplemental background investigation quote limited to current credible allegations against Kavanaugh, before the full Senate voted on his confirmation. And so there's an important detail here that wasn't clear to anyone at the time, because fucking no one knows how the minutia of FBI investigations work. But this was not actually a

Yeah.

The administration directly ran the investigation, killed it, and then used its political power and the FBI itself to you know, illegitimately railroad a serial predator or on at the Supreme Court to take away of when's right to get into abortion. And then after that they stonewalled the investigation for six years. So this is how that sort of process worked. I'm

Which white House was it? Sheldon White?

Sorry?

No, white House? Bad, the one with the president White House.

Yeah.

By the way, I was, I was trying to debunk his last name. He comes from the longest line of nepotism of that he.

I was like, I was like, oh, they must have gotten named that back when like the fact that they had a house at all was noteworthy.

Yeah, these people have paint it literally kept going.

I was like, okay, one level, okay, two levels okay, three, okay for this, Okay, when does it end?

And then I got bored? And the funny part of back of this again is that, like this is the good guy in this story is my NEPO baby like like corruption Junior Senator of Rhode Island. Yeah, okay, yeah, And I want to kind of focus in on this statement in and of itself, because this is just like an absolutely hideous a view of just like the hideous power of the unitary executive just do whatever the fuck

And like, yes, so this is the kind of thing that like should be serious crime, right, like yeah, you go, you get locked up for forever, Like this is a forever crime. Yeah, it seems much more serious than I don't know, robbing a bank to try and fund the Puerto Rican independence movement.

Yeah, it's not clear to me whether this would have been a giant scandal for a normal administration, just because the American presidency has so much power. But it should have been like this was just like a thing that would happen every week under Trump, was like he would just do shit like this. Do you know also what you should do? Shit like I don't know. That was not my best pivot.

No, no, but but do shit like.

Yeah, like like these products and services that support the podcast, we are back. We've gotten to the point where again the FBI's tip line is not actually being used of the investigation. They're sending it all to the White House. The report found that so the FBI, like and I talked about the public at the time, they talked to ten people who they said had like direct knowledge of

Well, I mean, you know, why would you need to do that, right, Like.

Wait, what the fuck? This is so insane. No. Oother part of this is so the FBI's initial background check didn't turn up any of this, and so the supplemental thing is being done in place of like the normal background check because the normal background check was also done like shit, and so they never figured out any of this incredibly obvious stuff about him. And meanwhile, like the supplemental one just they just kept being like, oh, well, we don't actually need to talk to the people who

Right.

Everyone thought that the FBI, which is doing a normal FBI investigation, right, And part of what's going on here is that the media is just these like absolute credulous idiots, right, because every single day the media is reporting that like Trump is allowing an open investigation because like somehow again this is this is like two years into him being in office. Right, none of these people have figured out

Sure have a nice fake tip line.

Yeah, they never used any of an investigation. They sent it all the Trump Yeah. And the reason they did it was that they were sick of people calling their regular tip line, so they set up a specific tip line so they could just have all the stuff that they would never listen to, and the same sense of the White House so they could do I guess like oppo research bullshit on it. So this is just straight

I love, I love they do a greta, which fucking liberals like have concluded politically at least that they have to be as like vociferously pro law enforcement as they can, and all cops ever do is say, we are just waiting for the chance to kill you. Like, yeah, it's great, cool, good stuff.

I'm going to go relign from this. It's so insane. When the Senators followed up, they faced the challenge of aligning FBI, DOJ, and White House equities. They sent like requests for the emails between Trump and the FBI right figure out whether Trump was doing the thing he was doing, which was like directly running the investigation himself. The FBI claimed it cannot answer without authorization from the DOJ in

I just like it also took so many years, Like yeah, Havanat has has been able to take away and fuck up our rights since what twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. Yeah, and the damage he's done is permanent.

Yeah, he will be around in office, possible, very likely for most of the rest of our lives.

Yeah.

Like I said earlier, it's only fifty nine years old.

Yeah, he could have another thirty years there at least.

Yeah. And if this stuff had been known, she absolutely would not have gotten nominated.

Right.

There were two unbelievably close votes to get him appointed.

Right.

There was a first vote where the Republicans trade a bypassed the Fillow Bobster and still almost lost. And it turns out that, Okay, the actual final vote ended up being fifty to forty eight with two abstensions, and one of the essensions is this guy was going to his daughter's wedding or something. But the other abstention was Lisa Morowski, who's the senator from Alaska who's like the most sort of liberal Republican senators and she does like a coward

Yep.

And it's deeply grim that he could take power again and we could get back to like the stuff he was doing at the end of his administratory. Who's just like having protesters killed with federal worshels, Like.

Yeah, That's the scary thing about it, right, is there's not any kind of like functional resistance to this. Right, the left has no power, has no serious organizing capacity in the United States, and can't get on the same page about anything that matters, whereas liberals, when they have four years of control of the federal government cannot adequately prosecute an attempt to overthrow the government and murder them. Yeah, so I don't know, you know, make sure you got

It's just so bleak because, like I said earlier, everything is so permanent.

Yeah, you know what I mean, like.

Just lasts so fucking long.

Yeah, it lasts so long, and like and like we we don't even know the damage that Kavanaugh is going to do to our society because of Trump. And it's also just terrifying that, you know, Trump was able to manipulate the system in this way and that so many people were silenced and now our rights are gone, yeah, or our rights are going to be taken away. We have no idea what else is going to be taken Yea, we have no idea. What else is going to get fucked up? We have ideas we have.

The idea is that that Again, the problem is the root of the problem is that liberals work tirelessly in this country to stop the left from gaining any power, and the left works tirelessly to stop itself from having any kind of influence by having no capacity to organize or compromise with people who do not agree with whatever

Yeah, like this. The other terrifying thing about this story is that it's not fucking everywhere. It's not everywhere. Ten years ago, this would be the scandal of all scandals, and it's barely barely a headline.

No, because no one's going to do anything about it. It's like, it's like Elon Musk paying people a million dollars a day to vote in Pennsylvania, Like that should be illegal. Like you can at least make a strong case based on existing laws that that is election interference, the kind of which that can land you in prison. Everyone knows, nothing's going to happen to him.

Nothing's going to happen to him.

If Kamala wins, right, if the Dims have a blowout and wipe up with both Houses of Congress, nothing is going to happen to Elon Musk.

It's yeah, again, just like we have no idea how how long this is going to get throw on and how much worse it could get.

And uh, yeah I have some ideas, but I podcasted about those back in twenty nineteen. Sophie.

I was there. I was quite literally there.

Yeah.

But yeah, so thanks Miyah.

That was a boomer, Thank you, Mia. No, this was good. I uh, this is solid.

And again when.

I started this by saying, my second to the last conversation I had in person with my mom was about Kavanaugh. It was hers almost screaming at me because of how unfair what the Democrats did to Brett Kavanaugh was because of the good man that they and she felt the same way about Clarence Thomas right that like these guys were the victims of media assassination attempts. She feels the same way about Bill Cosby. By the way, anyway, whatever,

Tomorrow's episode will be more fun. I promise we're gonna We're gonna yell about why the Kunda Wild Prizes fake and read some of the dubbest things you've ever seen in your life.

Hell, yeah, there we go. There we go, back to the good stuff, Back to the good stuff.

Yeah. MEA has been deeply excited to do this episode, So look look out for that one. And I don't know, uh, touch grass and peta dog if it wants you to.

Yeah bye, no.

Bell prize, welcome to it could happen here a podcast about Nobel Prizes. I guess I'm your host via loog with Me with Me?

Is James Himia excited to hear about the dynamite guy prices.

Yeah, so, as people I think are aware, the man who invented dynamite established a bunch of prizes to be like the pinnacle of human achievement. Right, every years decided I'm a bunch of judges and you know, and this year in the Nobel Prize in physics, right, Nobel Prize in Physics went to two guys who did a whole bunch of the sort of fundamental basic work on what

Huge groundbreaking shit. It's like economists don't discover shit. They just they just say shit, and then other economists are like, yeah, cool this okay.

So I when I was originally planning this episode, this is going to be an episode about the fake Nobel Prize, which is the economics Nobel Prize wich We've talked about on the show before, but it's worth saying again this is not a real Nobel Prize, Like, this is not one of the prizes that was established by Alfred Nobel. This was a thing established by the sweetest central Bank as a way to push neoliberal economics new classical economics.

As also a paper that you could write for my history one ten class at community college.

Okay, some of the discourse about this, right, the Marxist economist Sharramazar pointed out that, like these fundamental observations were made by another guy we've talked about on this show, the red again Marxist economist Paul Baran. And that's a good point. But also what I was thinking about how to do this episode, right, This isn't a thing like with like Donald Harris, like we talked abou Kabal Harris's dad's book, right, and that's that's a book where there's there's like ideas in it.

Right.

You can go through it and you can watch them developing ideas. You can't do that with this because these people are not developing ideas. They have discovered the most obvious things. They have read a single book about history, and they have attempted to use a bunch of regression analyses to prove things that like you can just read a Wikipedia article and discover about the course of colonization.

Yeah, and then you can go back and to a bunch of aggressionalities to prove something that everyone already needs.

Yeah. And the place that I got to about this is I have the shoke about Maoism where all the things that people get from Maoism are things that you should have learned in elementary school. Like one of the most common things you get from maoist is like, ah, you have to read no investigation, no right to speak, And like, my friend, okay, if you needed maose done to tell you that you needed to research something before you talked about it, what the fuck happened in your

It gets like an extractive colony, where you have more about extracted labor, raw materials and settling.

Yeah, like that changes the kinds of institutions that are set up. And like, okay, you can if you want to credit Paul Baron for the discovery that like the settler colonies and like extractive colonies have different legal institutions and they function differently, and that has had long range economic impacts, like stretching into the future. But like this is something again that you you can just you can find in a history book and immediately understand. And these

They're doing a fucking Jared Diamond. Yeah, they're doing a West and the rest.

Yeah, yeah, it's wonder a Jared Diamond bullshit, except you know, with China standard of living in Europe, if you actually go back to the historical record and aren't doing their like stupid weird like using population density as an index for stuff, whether they start bringing Malthus into it. If you don't do that and you look at like the actual historical record, like the average quality of life in China like is not eclipsed by Europe until like the

Then, like life expects in the midic and hundreds didn't it took decades to go up after the Industrial Revolution right lately.

Yeah, Oh, this is this is sort of drawing to what they're trying to do here, is that like a lot of this is it's just it's directly it's the product of colonialism, right, and they sort of acknowledge that colonialism existed and that it was like extractive. But their job is to take the basic insights of history and

Yeah, these are the kind of people who I have to deal with on a daily basis on list serves, Like these are the economists emailing the entire list serve with a unique insight into something that we all you thirty ye, like the old faculty email list is plagued by this kind of individual.

Yeah, and like like this is a thing where so they're absolutely convinced that, like, like the one hundred percent convinced that the thing that leads to economic prosperity is like the safeguarding of individual property rights. And like I will give them a little tiny bit of credit where they're like, well, yeah, so direct colonial institutions were attractive

They're just trying to make like a moral judgment because God forbid.

Yeah, well they said, they're saying it's extractive and they think that like attractions bad because it's inefficients. Yeah, but basically the things like that, they think that like, Okay, so like if you if you set up like regimes that like safeguard private property, this will like make people like richer. But I want to read a quote from

No, now me, like they didn't go on to say how like yeah, but Britain built the railways in India, like like like.

This is what he says, right, because what's happening here. You know, this is something that economists love to do. It's like economists love to go into other fields and to have to colonize them, right, Yes, Like what they're doing here is there they've gone into like this field of history. Yeah, and their attempting to colonized them, right,

Jesus Christ, thanks for trying guys like this.

And shit that they gave these people a Nobell prize for inspiring this is insane.

You're right, economists due just love to tourists in someone else's discipline and like fucking have the most basic insight possible. Like all of these are things that would be like an interesting undergraduate paper, right, Like.

Insane that these people are getting Noble.

Prizes for this. So it's not insane, it's economics, but the same difference, I guess.

All right, So speaking of economics, we need to go to ads because so it'll be a long term detrimental consequence for us. We don't, but when we come back, there's some more unreal bullshit. We are back, okay, So speaking of undergred bullshit, Well, what of the big things in their like initial paper where they did the whole Oh my god, they discovered that there's difference between settler

They had a looked at skull measurements because I felt like, I feel like we're heading down that pod, like econophrenology.

So bad, incredible. That was actually a whole thing in fascist Japan where they had all I can't remember if I ever talked about this in the episodes that I did on Bachelor's episodes, but they had this whole thing where they had like racial categorizations and like biological characteristics of like the races, and they would use them to like determine allocated efficiency of which slaves you should use

They just missed that time. Those people could kick the shit out of a Nobel price. In like twenty twenty five, they came back with that stuff.

Yeah, I get, like, you know, I mean, one of the things we were talking about, right, is like you were mentioning, is like these these are like these are like such obvious insights. And I remember, so I went to the University of Chicago, right, and that means that I fucking know all of these fucking ghouls, Like I met all the people who are going to become these econ dipshits. Yeah, you at ground zero for that shit.

Oh, that one is fucking like.

Jesus wept and it's so funny too. And this is this is like one of the biggest most obvious problems with their models, right, and this is this is this is from all the way back to like their whole thing about like how the institutions that were set up by colonialists being different affected like the long term trajectory of these countries. They treat these entire process because one of the things that they've discovered is that there are

Right.

Okay, but what they're trying to do is depoliticize how this actually works, because the thing you're trying to present is that all extraction happens through the state, right, Yeah, Like the state is the tool that at least use And now if you think about those about five seconds, we like, well, no, obviously, like there's an exploitation in like the workplace that's actually in these right military statorships,

Right.

But but what what they're doing is attempting to sort of depoliticize the deep plicize this entire process. This is what I'm talking about. Like they are the most advanced bushwiw economists, and being the most advanced bushwise economists, they have finally figured out that the whole they call it modernization theory. That's not really what modernization theory is. But

This is like an entire field of international relations, of political science.

This is shit. Not notice that there are literally multiple disciplines. This is an entire field of study, right, like I have read it, Like obviously, this is an entire matcho political science. This is an entire branch of international relations. This is an entire branch of sociology. There's like there's like an anthropological school kind of that that's about this.

They're interdisciplinary fucking institute, So that exists for this reason. Like this is shit that I studied from people who wrote books about it in the nineteen fifties.

Like this is like like you and The funny thing is they are they literally quote people who are writing about this from the ages. People have been studying this for fucking it as long as they're it has been democracy. People have been studying this shita their ECON thing. They always was like, oh, nobody ever did formal analysis before. It's like, have you ever fucking read have you read

This is seven years after the Arab Spring, just twenty nine.

Yes, insane, they discovered this. Yeah, so they do form an analyzes.

Is the Arab Spring famously the first and only democratic transition that's ever happened?

No, that's like two recents. Okay, they're all all their stuff. Is what they call the quote the second wave of democratic transitions, which is the second wave of all because they're two social idiots, so that they're talking about the protomocracy movements in the eighties in Latin America and you, Sasha great, Yeah, which they also were just thunderously wrong about like all of the time. Yeah, I was gonna say, I can't wait to hear what they have to say

I'm just looking up a very insightful paper that Ali Khadeva wrote, who I've been feuded several times, so different things.

It's called stick stones and Molotovs cocktails that it.

Is a fantastic analysis of democratic transitions. It's about like the strategic use of violence against property and the correlation it has between like successful democratic transition movements.

It's good paper read that. Yeah, there's a lot of great like analysis. We'll put that in like the notes here. There's a lot of great analysis of this. But what they're trying to do is they're trying to build this model where they're like looking at like basically bargaining between like the masses and elites to decide whether you do

Right.

They make stupid assumptions like this literally all the time. And again, this is one of the ones they're making in one of the papers that was cited in here as the reason they want to know what price in economics.

Yeah, I want to read this models off Cocktail's paper to everyone. Here's a fun little sentence, and event history analysis finds it, right, so positively associated with political liberalizing in one hundred and three non democracies from nineteen ninety to two thousand and four attacks by civilians on police stations during the January twenty fifth Egyptian Revolution illustrate one way in which un noncollective violence can bring about a

Yeah, we love this. That's a pretty normal thing from like, I guess you would call it like the center left of like Democrats edition studies stuff. Right, Yeah, it's the sociology paper. Yeah, that's like a pretty normal it's like a good life, a good paper. This is from one of the books written by the people who won the Economics Nobel Prize. Quote. Chapter six explains why several European countries have managed to build broadly participatory societies capable but

Oh god, me.

Is so depressing.

I spent ten years getting a PhD in history and they've just given these people a Nobel Prize.

But like Jordan Peterson ship, they have discovered. But this is the thing, Like these people have discovered the concept of history. Yeah, and they've read like four Wikipedia articles and they've used those Wikipedia articles they started doing regression analysis. Yeah, and this is this is what they want a Nobel prize. Yeah, this is fake Nobel prize. Like again, like I've been thinking about, like you know, in physics, what you have

Shout out to the economists like I guess I'm eagerly awaiting you discovering some other ship from my one oh one class. Feel free to sign up at anytime if you want to get a noble fi prize in economics.

I guess ah. All right, well this has been. It could happen here. I will return.

Yeah, next time we give an economy's surprised for tying the issues of.

Something this is it could happen here today. I'm your host, Garrison Davis, and they're sure has been a lot happening this past year. I am kind of feeling emotionally exhausted and just numb in general. It's a different feeling from the political desensitization that my job usually provides me. I'm frankly still recovering from attending the DNC, even more so

So to cheer.

Myself up, I decided to go to a Charlie Kirk and vivek Ramaswami rally at Georgia State University. Now to some that may sound just completely bat shit or perhaps some form of bizarre self harm, but look like I've been covering far right rallies and writing about these weird conservative influencers for years now, it's almost second nature to me. Going to these events can feel paradoxically relaxing, even though it may trigger some stress. My body just kind of

So that's not good.

At this point, Charlie has kind of taken the place of, if not surpassed, the role that was previously occupied by Stephen Crowder before his fall from grace isteming from his breakup with Ben Shapiro and the allegations of abusing his ex wife. Through the Turning Point Action organization, Kirk is more tight with the actual mechanisms of the Republican Party then even the Daily Wire is just This past Wednesday, Turning Point Action hosted a rally for Trump in Duluth, Georgia,

Now.

The event that I attended on October twenty first was a part of Charlie Kirk's You're Being Brainwashed tour, where Kirk and friends travel from swing state to swing state to debate college students on camera about why Trump is

So there you go.

I can't believe I've seen the vek Ramaswami like four different times this year. That doesn't feel good. But do you know what does feel good? That's right, these products and services that support this podcast. Okay, we are back. It's time to finally talk about this fucking rally. So I'm not gonna go over like the whole event play by play, because there was over two hours of quote unquote debating that I have neither the time nor the desire to recap, but I will mention some of the

You're misquoting him. But let's just look at what he did, not just rhetoric.

Nice little quick pivot there from Charles. But yes, technical Trump didn't say suspend. He actually said terminate, which is like worse.

I don't know.

In twenty twenty two, Trump posted on truth Social calling for the quote unquote termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution unquote, in response to the twenty twenty election. I don't know how Kirk thinks that saying terminate is better than suspend. Of course he doesn't.

Okay, sure, but.

Now part of Kirk's just flagrant January sixth revisionist history was claiming that Ashley Babbitt was suddenly killed with no warning as she was retreating from the Capitol and just none of that is true.

That just isn't what happened.

The only person to die on January sixth is a Trump supporter killed by one of Nancy Pelosi's bodyguards.

Okay, even that part isn't true. Two other Trump supporters died of heart attacks, and another died holding a Don't tread on Me flag after being trampled by fellow rioters. Now a student countered Kirk's claim of Babbitt's innocence by confirming that he believes in stands your ground laws that if you're breaking into property you can be shot hold on.

But Ashley Babbitt was unarmed. Isn't the whole kind of stick of the American left, like, don't shoot unarmed people. If I break into your house, then I was unarmed, but I broken I was.

Breaking into your house?

Was George Floyd? Was that a rightful death?

Okay, first of all, incredible deflection, but oh yes, as if these two situations are in any way comparable, a black man being pinned down and choked to death for over nine minutes and a woman leading a mob intent on killing US politicians right up to the last line of defense protecting set of politicians as they try to evacuate the capital. Kirk tried to make this same gross George Floyd comparison like an hour later, again to booze

So Donald Trump is talking with enemy, then he's talking about the cartels that are here that are poisoning our streets with drugs, that are bringing illegal guns into the country. That is the enemy within. Yet we say Russia is an enemy. Russia has never attacked the United States of America.

Curious Russia comment there, certainly, But like for this enemy within thing, we know that's just not true. Trump has specifically named multiple Democrats as the enemy within. It's not about cartels, it's not about people shooting him. There's just non stop lying coming from Kirk and Vek and none of the students are like equipped or researched enough to

Donald Trump's going to negotiate an end of that war. That's reasonable.

Kamala Harrison and Joe Biden have created that war and escalated that over the last three year.

Trump did not really end any wars in his first term. In fact, he increased US troop levels in twenty seventeen and raised the number of civilian deaths in Afghanistan from drones strikes by three hundred and thirty percent according to Brown University. Still, the Veck tried to frame Trump as the much more principled anti war candidate, But which candadate?

Was there a major war in the Middle East? Was there a major war in the Middle East or Donald Trump?

There were multiple arms deal packages to Saudi Arabia for the war in Yemen, and the US increased its involvement in the series of a war under Trump. But to the Vek's earlier point, I really don't see a way Trump would end the war in Ukraine. That isn't just giving more territory over to Russia. But to Charlie Kirk that might not be such a bad thing, since he seems to be kind of fond of Russia.

You know who is the enemy. China is the enemy.

Russia.

Well, Russia's not the enemy. Exactly how many of your friends have died because of Russians?

Here's another SoundBite from the Veck.

Joe Biden and Kyple Harris along with some Republican help.

I'm gonna admit is sending more money to escalate that war that otherwise would have resolve itself if we had just negotiated peace back in twenty twenty two.

Resolves itself. Sounds a lot like Vivek just means that Russia would have just seized territory, and like later on, Vavek argued that Ukraine just shouldn't be getting any native protection at all.

So the US actually made a commitment back in nineteen ninety to say that NATO would expand not one inch past East Germany.

Hmmm, I wonder what may have been different geopolitically in nineteen ninety in relation to Russia. Vivek, I wonder if anything has happened since nineteen ninety that might affect certain Slavic territories. Avek, I wonder, Oh my god. Now, the topic discussed probably the most during this event was immigration even the liberal college students seem to believe that an influx of immigration was the biggest problem currently facing the

Though, like JD.

Vance, Kirk considers most immigrants illegal regardless of their actual status. Kirk claimed that the quote unquote nine million immigrants seeking asylum that have come into this country under Biden are all illegal because they are quote cartel sponsored fraudulent asylum claims unquote. Kirk said that these false asylum seekers pay cartels ten thousand dollars to be smuggled into the United States.

They're all illegal because they're we know it's actually, we know it to be true. It's not the question nine they're frauds. That they're defrauding the American immigration system is what they're doing.

When pressed for proof on this, Kirk just stumbled, and Viveck took over and later just plugged his new movie about illegal immigration.

Yes, I mean, so, for example, what is the asylum claim if you're coming from from George, Korea.

Actually, wow, wow, very very convincing stuff happening. Viveck argued that most immigrants lie about seeking asylum in order to enter the country, and since that's illegal, that makes them more likely to commit other crimes once in the United States.

So right now, our immigration system literally selects for the people who are most willing to lie to the US government to get in. And that's why it's no surprise that the people whose first act of entering the country breaks the law often continue to break the law while they're already here.

I don't think that's racist or xenophobic.

I think it's a fact based on who we're actually selecting to come into the country in actuality.

Immigrants and especially undocumented or quote unquote illegal immigrants, are far less likely to commit crimes than US citizens. Most research puts it between forty to sixty percent less likely, at least according to Stanford, the Texas Department of Public Safety, and the Cato Institute, all famously liberal organizations. One thing that Kirk kept trying to do is pander his nationalism towards the racially diverse audience of Atlanta.

Students.

The people in this audience, which is a very diverse audience, specifically Black Americans, should be incensed that they're being replaced by foreigners. Black Americans are now being put aside so that a bunch of foreigners can come, undercut wages and fill your city. The black community, which you obviously both care a lot about, is actually not being prioritized. Instead,

The worst part is that this seems to work. The audience seems to resonate with this grossly fascistic framing, seemingly unable to recognize what Kirk was doing. And at this point I was just like fucking losing it. Vivek said that if you don't know English, you shouldn't be allowed in the United States, and like no one cared, no one pushed back on that. A pro Kamala person repeated false migrant crime wave rhetoric in her question about the

Politically charge you fair enough, what are you doing.

You're trying to debate about access to abortion or if all immigrants should be rounded up and deported, but you don't want to get quote unquote too political.

What are you talking about?

I'm sorry you couldn't get a fast dunk on Charlie Kirk, but come on. But perhaps the most disheartening moment was when Charlie Kirk was challenged on his opposition to the Civil Rights Act. Someone asked why Charlie thinks that the

The fanfare that the Civil Rights Actor is met with. It's almost like the new Constitution. We talk about the Civil Rights Act more than the Constitution. Is it is cited more than the Constitution. We almost had a new American founding in the nineteen sixties with the Civil Rights Act.

So let me share a couple of couple hard facts with you, which is that turns out that you're much more likely to end up in prison, you're much more likely to end up in poverty, you're much more likely not to graduate from high school if you grow up in a single parent household versus the dual parent household.

Oh god, do you know what that can actually be attributed to. It's the massive increase in policing and the carcinal justice system that was specifically intensified as a conservative reaction to black people gaining more civil rights in society.

The Civil Rights Act has nine different titles in it, and you have this this leviathan that was created, and something that most Black Americans dunt support is men in female sports. Would you agree men playing in female sports? I have no, Yeah, I know, no, no for sure, right, but believe it or not, the Civil Rights Act is now being used to keep men playing in women's sports.

How sad is it that this kid was convinced that the fucking Civil Rights Act is bad through transphobia. It's so fucking predatory what Kirk is doing here. This was so fucking gross to watch in person. As the day went on, things just started to get more and more kookie. A whole batch of like libertarian Austrian trained economists went back and forth with Charles and Viveka on tariffs, free markets, and the validity of the economic philosophy of Frederick Hayek.

They were wrong about everything. They were wrong about six feet to solder spread. They were wrong about the vaccine safe and effective.

They were hey, they we were wrong about whether the Arthur revolves around the sun.

What are you talking about?

Oh my god.

One student just got so fed up with Kirk's endless rambling about topics unrelated to their question and decided to walk away, which then, of course, Kirk claimed as a rhetorical victory.

How to biden laptop misinformation? Where did the virus come from? Biolabs? It's exactly how fine? That's okay, go to your fics class.

I was losing it and frankly just shocked at how little pushback Charles and Vivek were receiving for what I saw is very clear lies and manipulative debate tactics. The majority of some people clearly did not think too hard about the question they were going to ask, or let alone research the topic of debate beforehand. I saw people in line to ask a question using chat GPT to generate questions to ask using a prompt about how to debate Charlie Kirk at a Turning Point USA event, like

Here's Vivek.

The number one human attribute that our legal immigration system selects for isn't who's smart. Isn't who's going to work hard, isn't who loves the country. It's are you willing to lie to the US government or not. If you are, you get in.

If not, you don't. That's the way it works.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

And here's another example from Kirk.

Black Americans are treated far worse than illegals in this country, and we have violated our social contract to our own citizens. And I just want you to think about that, okay. Is that if you into America, you get a flight to the country the city of your choosing, You get taxpayer funded luxury hotels, you get a taxpayer funded phone, taxpayer funded food stamps, whereas many Americans are struggling to even make ends meet, So thank you so much for coming.

Yeah, what a convenient way to say a bunch of bullshit without having to back any of it enough. Now, of of course, welfare programs like food stamps and even assistants to get access to smartphones, since they basically are now a requirement of everyday life, those programs do exist, right, Those are important programs. But those free flights to any city, that's actually a reference to New York City's reticketing program, which offers one way bus or plane tickets out of

Let me ask you just one more question. Can men give birth?

Can men give birth?

Yeah?

If they're transgender? Q?

The audience's shocked response. These people probably don't even know if this refers to a transgender woman or a transgender man.

Whatever.

For another example, here's how Levek responded to a question about voter fraud allegations.

Do you think dal Trump committed a coup against the US government?

This was part of Kirk's response to a question about US aid to Israel.

What is your strong opinion about the civil war happening in the Central African Republic.

For another example, a student asked Kirk what should be done about hate crimes against Venezuelan immigrants in cities like Chicago?

Chicago?

I think that we should do.

I have a question, so what part of Chicago from?

So these are all just classic red herricks. Here's another.

Do you admit that the Hamas tried to commit genocide on October seven?

Also simply not what a genocide is. Now, Sometimes students can catch what Kirk is doing with red herrings and deflections, but even when drilled down on the original line of questioning, Kirk will try hard to pivot away whenever the momentum is not going in his favor.

You guys are super focused on technical things that we could talk about forever. Let me just ask a question. I asked you, what is Kamala Harris's greatest accomplishment? Can you tell me what that would be?

Perhaps the most common tactic Charlie Kirk employes to maintain control over the interaction is instead of just stating his opinion, Kirk will throw a question back to his opponent with the intent of getting them to say something that's in

If there was a policy that made markets more free but hurt your country, would you support it? Do you believe that FDR was right and partnering with Joseph Stalin to defeat Hitler?

Yeah?

So I guess two questions with tariff's how do you avoid a tariff's? Ask another moral question, then, is it ever okay to do something evil after an l under abortion? Do you carve out a new morality? Is there like a different kind of morality that we apply only to abortion? At what point does it get human rights?

Let me ask you just a question.

Do you know which nation is the biggest supplier of the US military today?

You could probably guess it.

Is your phone, paid for by US taxpayers. Let me ask you, did you have a big this summer in a luxury hotel paid for by taxpayers? Ten people are murdered in Chicago. Out of those ten, how many of those cases will be solved on average?

Do you think?

Okay? So you said wanted to suspend the Constitution? Did he do that when he was president?

His argumentative style looks pretty goofy when it's all broken down into its respective parts. Now to circle back to my stance of just never engaging with these bad faith debate spectacles. Lastly, I'll show you what happens when you

Let me ask you this a first principal question. Do you think the Jewish people have a moral rights to their religions?

Do not have?

Kirk then failed to accuse the student of anti Semitism. Kirk then tried to trick the student into saying that Hamas is more morally good than Israel, But the student saw what Kirk was trying to do with his bizarre moralistic framing.

Do you think that Israel as it's currently constituted is morally equivalent with Hamas?

The student quite wisely did not answer Kirk's precariously worded yes or no question and instead reframed the question in their own words and only then stated their opinion that both Hamas and the IDs actions can be constituted as evil.

Still, Kirk wouldn't relent.

So which one is better? Which one is good is better.

His nonsensical framing was once again rejected, but then Kirk accused the student of being propagandized and then asked if they had personally been to Israel to assess the situation.

And this is when everything fell apart.

Let me tell you this that you know that.

There's Arab serving in the Kannesset, you know that, and there why you're a point of Jews saying I don't like Jews because Israel absolutely.

Saying I'm just gonna I'm gonna go back to this because I think it's so interesting though, which is that I believe that the Jewish people do have a rights their ancestral body.

Well, first of all, that you believe that they should be leveling buildings because that's their ancestral home.

I'm not I'm not defending every decision they made, but that's exactly what they're doing. Interrupt every you're interrupting. I'm gonna ask for our next question because you're not arguing.

The more questions.

Not much to debate, because I believe that Israel should exist in its current form, you do not, thank you very much. Okay, last couple the moral confusion on the Israel topic. Is it's it's hard to clear up in a vendy like this.

Again, like these aren't real debates. If the conversation goes any way other than how Kirk wants it to go, he has complete control of the environment and can move on to a more desirable apent because, like, beyond convincing any gullible people that might happen to be in the crowd, the real reason Kirk does events like this is to make content.

It's YouTube debate.

These debate videos rack up thousands and sometimes millions of views on YouTube and TikTok, and every single person that participates as if these are real debates is directly helping Charlie Kirk make money and grow his brand. This TPUSA Brainwash Tour will continue into November, and I'm sure Charlie Kirk will keep doing events like this in the years to come, regardless of who wins the election. So what's the options to counter something like this? I'm of three minds.

They might come work. Skibbity Biden, skibbity Biden, give me buy one. This was probably my favorite moment of the DNC.

This strategy of complete confusion doesn't just deny the subject

Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat Death of the Universe.

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