in a world brimming with complexity few creatures embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless precision she dances from bloom to bloom each motion guided by millennia upon millennia of instinct each act in service to the whole and then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards
of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist, part poet, they move along their hives with the efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to the bees' needs as best they can comprehend, and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love Beekeeping
presented by Man Lake. Today, we're headed to the US's Pacific Northwest to discuss what it's like beekeeping in that area, in that climate. With those kinds of issues, it's not all that easy, by the way. We'll discuss everything from salmon derbies to yellow jackets, beekeeping ethics, and a whole bunch more. But first, let's take two minutes to go inside the hive. This feature presented by Primal Bee. A colony that came through winter with maybe 10 ,000 bees can
hit 60 ,000 by early summer. That kind of growth doesn't happen by accident. As days lengthen and the first pollen starts coming in, the queen ramps up laying. She might go from a few hundred eggs a day to over a thousand, close to even two thousand. The colony is betting everything on the spring nectar flow. Here's how the math works. A worker bee takes about 21 days to develop from egg to adult. So the eggs that the queen lays in early spring won't become foragers until
at least three weeks later. The colony has to build up its workforce before the big nectar flow hits, not during. That's why timing matters so much. Colonies that build up too slowly miss the flow. Colonies that build up too fast run out of space and swarm. taking half your bees with them. The trigger for all this is a combination of day length, temperature, and incoming resources. When the nurse bees have enough pollen to feed
larva, they signal the queen to lay more. The whole colony responds to what's happening outside. Experienced beekeepers learn to read their local conditions and anticipate when their colonies will need more space. Get it right and you've got a strong workforce ready for the flow. Get it wrong, and you're chasing swarms. I'd like to welcome our very famous guest today. Are you famous, Brian? No, not at all. Not even infamous. Hopefully, I'd rather be famous and infamous,
but I am not famous. Anyway... We're going to have fun today. We're up in the Pacific Northwest in the San Juan Islands having a conversation with Brian Schmitz. And good morning, Brian. Good morning, Eric. I know I put you on the spot with that famous one. Well, I am a reigning salmon derby winner at the local American Legion. So yes. Yeah. I won it in 2019 and they haven't had the derby since. So, you know, I am the reigning
champion. Okay. I promise listeners, we're not going to get too far off track of beekeeping, but how do you, what is a salmon tournament and how do you win it? Well, it was a pay entrance fee. You go out and try to catch the biggest fish over a period of a couple of days and I caught the biggest ones. So yeah, it's, uh, out in a fishing boat, trolling that kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. King salmon or what kind? King
salmon. They're the local, uh, King salmon that don't leave the area they're called black mouths and that's usually you catch them in the winter and uh, yeah Well, I love fishing. So that sounds fun Yeah, it was it was a good time my buddy co -worker. He uh, he took Third or fifth place. We we had a couple of we both got checks. That's you know, which was all right Yeah All right. Let's switch gears Let's not talk about bee hunting, but we're going to be talking about everything
beekeeping up in your neck of the woods. And let's start with the climate for a second. I know things can be very humid, very wet, a lot of rain. Give us an idea of what your whole year is like, and does it change much from summer to winter, things like that? Yeah, you know, we really don't have community like they have it, you know, on the American East or the South. I remember the first time I stepped off a plane. Ronald Reagan Airport is like, whoa, this is
humidity. Yeah, we really don't have the humidity. We are in a bit of a rain shadow in the San Juan's Olympic mountain range, which I can see out the window. It blocks a lot of the weather from the south. We recently got to Time Apple Express, that big Kona Lo that created a lot of havoc there in the Hawaiian Islands. Kind of the jet stream bent it right up and it blocked a good bit of it, but there was still some local flooding. They had some this winter as well, washed out
a road to one of our popular ski hills. It was a bit of a pain for the people who bought their season passes and couldn't get to the mountain easily. It's been a warmer winter. We really haven't had much of an accumulation of the snow as we've had in the past. So we're thinking, I'm thinking at least, that wildfire this summer could be an issue. And in Vancouver and in Seattle, they get their drinking water. supply is from winter melt -top of, you know, the winter, or
summer melt -top of the winter snow. And, uh, there's not a lot of snow to fill up the reservoirs for Vancouver or Seattle. We're like 40 minutes or 40 miles from Vancouver and about, uh, 67 from downtown Seattle. We're kind of right in between the two of those. The ocean is kind of a, an air conditioner. It's temperate, so we don't have the... Generally don't have the really deep freeze or the real high temperatures though. It can get periods of it, but it does moderate
it a bit. There are some health flows from the Canadian interior that come down through the Fraysia River Valley, which could bring some really cold temperatures from us from interior Canada. Definitely a fixed frozen pikes more than once in my house. So yeah, we're pretty moderate as far as temperatures go. Is it moderate enough, warm enough that your bees are out flying all winter? No, it definitely isn't. It gets into the higher 40s, they'll start flying then.
I like a little darker bees, but they definitely cluster up and go broodless. The bees I have definitely do have a brood break during the winter. That helps. So you have a real live winter. You're just not under three feet of snow. I can be. Oh, really? Yes. And we live on a hill about 1200 feet elevation. And I have a land cruiser with lockers and the axles and stuff. I get up and down in the snow while the neighbors are parking. That makes a difference. It does. It
does. I love my old black dessert. So Brian, how long have you been beekeeping? I've been beekeeping since 2020. Started right during the pandemic. Started seeing if I could make my own bread. And it's like, oh, it's got pretty good at doing the old sourdough. It got bee - Taylor Swift, that trend, but then it's like, no, I wonder if I can make trigger. And that's why I started keeping these. I thought about it for a while. I used to pick berries when I was a
kid, you know, raspberries and blueberries. And you'd see colonies all that hadn't been picked up yet. The school kids were picking berries in the summer type of thing. And I always kind of had an interest in it. Yeah. Well, congratulations, because a lot of people picked up new hobbies, as you know, during the pandemic, including beekeeping. Yeah, and some of them still are a lot aren't so yeah good job keeping it up You've obviously
learned a lot figured it out. You were telling me you run 30 colonies roughly Yeah, yeah, I the end of last summer going to the fall. I had 33 Yeah, I'd like to get back up there, you know, if had some some losses and uh, Langstroth Nile hives links drop deeps for now but in different size boxes, a nuke box, five or six spring. Michael Palmer, you know, brew factory type of deals, those, about five of those. And you use smaller
honey supers as well? Oh yeah, I, everything's 10 frame medium and I probably have close to 30 drawn out supers when I harvest. You know, we have such short season, I don't want to have my bees to have to drop home to be able to harvest. honey every year to draw a new comb. It just takes so much of their resources and whatnot to do that. So I just, I'll cut off the cappings and spin them out and make sure they get cleaned up and store them away nice and safe and never
have root in them. So. And about when do you harvest every year? The county fair is in early August. I'll do a couple of harvest. I'll do stuff for the fair right away. As soon as I see some cap brains, I'll just steal those out. and do a quick extraction of that. And then I'll put those back in the colony and then harvest in August for first part of September. And by the way, thanks for sending the picture with your blue ribbon and congratulations. Oh, thank
you. Yeah, it was a blue ribbon and a Bespin class. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, not just to say I'm a Derby winner. Well, congrats. Yeah, you're the winner on everything. Things work out for me, it seems. As we were chatting the other day, you had mentioned that you've got some pests that are part of the reason why all your bees don't make it through winter. Can we jump into
that? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I live in the woods, you know, right next to this huge state park, probably one of the nicest state parks in the state, Moran State Park, named after the former mayor of Seattle. The battleship USS Nebraska, and it was killing them. And the doctor said, you've got a few months to live, bud. He's sighting all school. I'm just gonna go up to Orcas and live the rest of my days up there. And he ended up living for another 40 years. Violins are just
kind of a magical place. I don't know if it's officially a blue zone. There's some evidence that it might be a blue zone where people tend to live a longer life. Yeah, we live next to this forest. And the forest, there's a lot of native bees, including yellow jackets. They could be rather pesky and I've lost strong highs and not just weak highs too. I've lost a couple of big booming double deep colonies with really reduced entrances and they're still having a
heck of a time fighting off yellow jackets. It's a little crazy. Let's talk yellow jackets for a few minutes because it's our number one pest
here as well. Yeah. When I was fairly new at beekeeping and lost my first hive to yellow jackets I was told well if it was a strong healthy hive yellow jackets wouldn't be able to kill it well you and I have both witnessed that is not always the case and it is oh man it's a horrible horrible thing to watch because you can go out there and it looks kind of like robbing and you look closer and you just see these yellow jackets taking the bees apart and and the guard bees come out
and they try to do their deal and it's not a fair fight. Yellow Jacket can just take them out. Now everybody is going to find something different that works for them. I'm going to tell you what works for me and then I want to hear some of the things that work for you. Now I know there's all kinds of great robber screens that you can buy that make it harder for any kinds of flying predators to get inside a hive. With where I particularly am, the Yellow Jackets hit
right around the first of September. So I know just before then is the time to prepare. And I use an entrance reducer, but it's not a regular wooden one. I take hardware cloth that's fine enough that bees and Yellow Jackets can't get through it. I run that. across the front of the entrance and I leave an opening that's only about an inch and that's it. Now the reason I use hardware cloth is because it's still really hot and so whether it's that or some other kind of screen
the bees definitely need the airflow. I can't just put a wooden entrance reducer in. Now with a strong hive in my experience they can win that battle with that small of an entrance. How about you? You mentioned entrance reducer wasn't even enough. So tell me what happened. They, uh, just over overwhelmed the colonies. And I do have a bunch of the, the white, uh, robber screens. I won't mention the product names. So I've had some success with that, but sometimes it's just,
it doesn't, it doesn't matter. They just, I don't know if there's a pheromone that, uh, is given off or maybe a bread. the aggressiveness out of the bees where they're just more susceptible to that because there's some bees that are right next to the ones that are having problems that may not even be as strong and they don't have any issues. Did you notice that those other bees were a little bit hotter and the ones that were killed were maybe a little friendlier to people,
that is? That's right. It's the fortel, the highest in my colony. I'll make a video. diary type of thing so I can look at it later. I'm not a very good note taker by just fine using my video camera on my phone. It's great and I'll mention that this colony is hot and that colony was hot at, you know, a certain time. I admit a pet peeve of mine is that it seems all beehives are white. Yeah, boring old white. And just when I get a pet peeve, Man Lake comes to the rescue with
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primalbee .com slash Bee Love and be sure to use Bee Love at Checkout. And it seems like the ones that I made that notation are doing great, you know. So I, it's anecdotal, but I think I'm going to be be running some hotter bees here in the future and maybe use those queens for grafting here. Makes sense. And then the other thing that a lot of us do And you may be too close to the woods, but we try to control all
of the Yellow Jackets that we can. I mean, I just barely put some traps out to try to get the Queens. We're in the spring right now of 2026. So I do that. And then in the summer, I just, I've got Yellow Jacket traps up all over the place. including around the beehives. Some people says maybe it attracts them closer to the hives. I'll put them like 10 feet away from a handful of hives. And, you know, I'm going to mention a whole bunch of things and I don't
know which ones work the best. I think a combination of things help. I have also put up those paper things that look like a paper wasp hive. Have you seen those? No, I have not. You can just get them on Amazon for a couple of bucks. They're really cheap and they look almost like a paper lantern or something. And so they're maybe, I don't know, maybe 10 inches high and six inches wide or something. And they look like a paper wasp nest. I'm told that hornets don't like paper
wasps. So I will also put those out in the apiary by beehives. Maybe hanging from a tree 10 feet away or something. Again, I have no idea how much that is helping, but I'm doing all the things. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely see some things online with different traps and the commercially available ones. I have some of those and definitely going to try the, uh, was it chicken suspended over a pool of soapy water upside down. There's a bunch of things like that on YouTube that people
can look up. I just figure the more hornets I'm taking out of the atmosphere, the better. Yeah. And it's just so hard to find their nest because yellow jackets nest in the ground. And if you're in an area like me, I mean, I'm around acres and acres of nothing. And so it's just really, really hard to find them. I do every once in a blue moon. Once every couple of years, I'll
find one and take it out. Yeah. I found one last year right by my house, right by my foundation and gave him a little dawn and water and took that one out. Still had a plague around the highs. It was crazy. Well, and you can get 5 ,000 plus, right, of yellow jackets in a little underground hive like that or nest, whatever they call them. Anyway, the chicken thing. If nobody has seen this before, let's try to describe it. I haven't done it yet, it looks like you've seen it, I've
seen it. And you take a bin, a big plastic bin or bucket or whatever, that's nearly full of water. You take a piece of wood, hang it over that, and you staple, tie, whatever, some raw chicken on the bottom side of that wood. just a little bit above the water so that the hornets fly in. They munch, munch, take some big chunks out of the chicken. They drop slightly before they can start flying out. That's when they hit
the water. And of course you've put a little dish soap in the water, right, so that They can't easily get back off of it. They drown quickly because you've broken the tension in the water. And I've seen people catch thousands of yellow jackets that way. Yeah. It looked like a good way to go, to be honest. Pick your favorite way. Hey, this is just me. We love all pollinators, but there's some that are hurting our favorite pollinators. And so I don't mind getting rid
of some of those. Yeah, my wife loves hiking in the woods and every once in a while comes a little too close to a ground nesting yellow jacket and Well, we'll find you know, I hear about it. So yeah, I don't mind doing something with those for sure Yeah, yeah, they don't belong
on this planet in my opinion. Okay, you didn't hear that from me Well, we have some gooseberries that are really like that that they're a little too early for the honeybees usually Well, and by the way, those yellow jackets, some people call bees that don't know the difference. They're the ones ruining your picnic as well. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. I definitely got a swarm call for some honeybees in a wood pile last year. It's like, can you send me a picture before I go to another
island to pick up these three honeybees? Yeah. So speaking of islands, so you're on an island. Do you take a ferry to get everywhere? Yeah. Yeah. We don't have, there's no stoplights. Uh, on any of the islands, when we go to the mainland Anacortes, it feels like we call it going to America. Just because our little kind of peaceful bubble out here. And when you started with bees, did you buy your bees from somewhere on the mainland
and then ship them over with you? Or are there beekeepers on your island you were able to buy them from? Getting started, I just found a a person who was bringing packages up from California and I went down to the Seattle area and picked them up. And of course it was during COVID, so they'd bring them out to your car, put them in the back and you'd go off. There wasn't much, you know, getting out and talking and whatever.
It was just, here you be, see ya. But yeah, and I've also gone down and picked up packages from people too in my earlier days. So the thing with the packages, we don't have small high beetles on our end. I know they're in the neighboring county. Brie Price is our local extension person there. Washington State mentions that. Yeah,
they are in Saskatchewan County. I have sold some newts to people on the island just so that we don't accidentally get small hot beetles on the island or for now, and probably triple elapsed in the future would be something to... Good reason not to head for the east of the island. You're not allowed to say the T word on this show. No, geez. Okay. Put me in timeout. No, we're, we're just avoiding that topic as long as we can. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. But, uh, forewarned is. Oh,
I forget the saying. Anyway, if you know about it, you can do, do things to try to prevent it. Yes. I'm being facetious, obviously, but there's so much hard stuff to talk about already with Varroa and other pests. Glad you don't also have small hypias. That's one less. Yeah. It's another layer of the onion to peel back with, but you don't be keeping it as it seems like. you learn something new and you feel a layer of it, and you think you're getting closer to the center
of it, but now there's more layers there. That's why it's so interesting. Again, as we were chatting the other day, you mentioned something you called beekeeping ethics. Would you explain what that is? Beekeeping is local, right? The way you keep your bees is the way you feel, you know, because you have certain beliefs and whatever. I like to treat my bees. So I want to protect our local native pollinators. We have lots of bubbles and
mining bees and even yellow jackets. But, you know, I don't want to create a mite bomb for these other bees or whatever, or hurt the environment. I definitely want to actively manage my bees. So in a responsible manner, of which to me, I feel is responsible. It's personal, right? I feel like I need to be a... beekeeper instead of behabber. And to paraphrase Greek philosophers, an unexamined hive is not worth keeping. Let's
have Plato or Socrates. I think they both may have said it in different times, but anyway, yeah, I, uh, it's just important to me. I see some people use, uh, well, actually that sounds like a tap, this might sound like a tap, but the, uh, the double bubble is like in place of an intercovers and it's that plastic with the the bubble insulation and used to be some of their videos and they peel off and said, oh, there's a flake of plastic. I think I just saw
a fall down in their eye and microplastics. That's something you hear quite a bit about being in our bloodstream and whatever. And I don't know. It's just something that I am not going to do. And that's just one of the ethical choices that is important to me, not necessarily important to other people. And I like the term that you used a minute ago which was responsibility or responsible beekeeping because let's talk swarming
for a second. Sure. I know lots of people that are into beekeeping just as naturally as possible and they let their bees swarm and that's great until it shows up at your neighbor's house and they're not so happy about it. Yeah. It takes common sense. If you want to let them swarm, great, but let's somehow make sure they're not bothering your neighbors. Yeah. And the same with Varroa and the same with spraying all kinds of pesticides and herbicides all over everything.
What we're doing affects other people too. So I'm glad you're looking at that and trying to be responsible. Yeah. And, you know, making sure they have a water source that they like better than the neighbor's dog's water bowl. Whenever I had one of those issues here a few years ago. Yeah. You don't want to upset the apple cart. Part of what's fun with this show is just meeting beekeepers from all over the place, all over
the world. And you're in a unique area. What other kinds of things have you learned that you might be able to share with other people in a situation similar to yours? I don't know. I feel like our situation is pretty unique from our isolation and the fact that there are some beekeepers on our island, but there aren't a ton of them. It's fairly unique. We don't have traditional row crops and we don't have to worry about the spring things. We do have some, I do have actually
organic apple orchard very close to me. A few hundred trees. I don't know how big your island is, but if I were moving to your island, maybe three or four miles away from you. And I was already a beekeeper, but I'm like, I'm used to keeping bees in the mountains and in the desert. What advice would you have for me there? Well, there's the universal stuff. It's like, when was your last mic count? How many, how many you
find, you know, that kind of thing. I, I, uh, I like to do the tenet singhai, which basically insulate a roof. I do wrap the outside. Get a lot of lens here. Galeforce lens, small craft advisories, that kind of thing. A lens over 50. 50 knots. I do like, I feel like the slatted racks help a little bit with the wind hitting, getting up into the brood cones a lot. It was something I adopted earlier on in my beginning career. Oxalic acid vaporization is a real popular
treatment. The first one everybody gets is the... the one you plug into the deep cycle battery and it has a tray. And I felt like I burned some cones at one point, so it's like maybe I'll put a little slider rack on there. And there's definitely other benefits too, besides a little protection from rudimentary OAV applicators. There's more
room that the cones get drawn out better. If you don't have a slider rack on there and I have some, my five frame equipment or whatever, the bottom of the cones by near the entrance doesn't get drawn out so well and you have to... pull them up and flip them and whenever you do that, disturb the brood nests, it sets the bees back a bit. So I do like them for that reason as well. It gives them a whole more room, a little more time to catch them before they fly off into a
tree as well. Do you have a chance to catch many swarms where you are? Yeah. Yeah. Last year I caught four. None from my own colonies. Three of those was from somebody who overfed their bees and just they backfilled the brood nest and they just went to the trees and there's like three after swarms and then another one was a colony over on a different island. Just started drawing comb outside in this apple tree. I do
catch a good bit of swarms. Yeah, I always put the swarm traps in and wherever I have my an apiary set up. I feel like it's a responsible
thing to do. You know, landing in the neighbor's bush, an elderberry bush is much nicer for the person whose bush it is then versus, oh I found a Dead spots in the house where there is any insulation and how you're doing a cut out and cutting down there their house to retrieve some bees But yeah, I think swarm crafts are very important for that You seem like somebody that would have a really fun wild and crazy beekeeping story Were you sure one was this? Yeah, I could
do that. I could do that. Oh, are you familiar with movie Greyhound there with Tom Hanks World War two? Sorry, I have not seen it Okay. All
right. So Tom Hanks is the captain of a destroyer protecting a convoy in World War two when there's a German wolf pack that are Set out to destroy the protection of the convoy and the convoy itself So it's a very intense movie at the end of it but they let the convoy other ships from the English mainland have come and took took over for them and They're going into port to get patched up because you know, they suffered some damage or whatever Tom Hanks goes to his second -in
-command. It's like, you have the con. That deck hostler takes over and commands the ship and brings them into harbor, and whatnot, and goes off. And that's the end of the victory. My job is similar. I'm the second command of a captain. I'm Richard Merrier. I'm in charge of a navigational watch. And we listen to different things, like air traffic control. We have vessel traffic control.
We have a radio for that. We have a different radio for making pi -dows, passing... arrangement and also in the corner sometimes we'll have a radio on we'll listen to classic rock or whatever and every once in a while it'll be during a beat club zoom meeting and i'll have that going on you know on a level where we could hear all of our other radios but we can still pay attention to that anyway so this one beat club meeting just listen to it the guest came on very respectable
randy elever It's good stuff for the beekeeping community. I think that's indisputable. He came on and lit the zoom meeting and he wanted everybody in the meeting to see their face. And, you know, I've been a darkened pilot since that night. Brian, I want you to turn on your camera so I can see your face. No, I can't do that. It's like, Brian, and he wouldn't let it go. And I just, you know, obviously couldn't destroy my
light. night vision by looking at the thing and turning on the light so he could see my face. So I just had to reach over and just turn off the volume. And I don't know, I hopefully he, he, he, he did it safer, you know, asked for me to keep doing that for a long time, but I don't know. I just turned the volume down because that's kind of what I had to do. And I just felt so, I still feel embarrassed about it. It just
like getting caught out by Andy Oliver. It's just not something you want to do as a Vkeeper, right? Oh my gosh. But that was my embarrassing moment. Your embarrassing moment didn't even have any honeybees in it. It wasn't getting stung in a weird place or anything else. No, no, but it was just getting called out by Randy Oliver and disappointing. I just felt so small, but it's what I had to do. Someone like Randy Oliver probably has the authority to take your beekeeper
merit badge away. I'm a boy scout. I guess I'm a bad boy scout. I don't know. Probably not the first one. All right. Last question and you're welcome to think about it for a minute. And that is, you know, I can tell that you just really love the bees and really enjoy spending time with them. What is it about it that you love? It just, um, it forces you to be present, to, you know, take a deep breath and be calm when you're working your bees. You don't want to squish
them, see what's going on. and react. It's kind of similar to my job. Not all the things you see out the window you need to react to immediately. Some you could just monitor, right, and see what happens. But other times there's things where you just got to act and make a change. I find it really peaceful. I guess that's one of the pitches for the Heist for Heroes thing, to help people who've faced some adversity and whatever, and just kind of help manage your mental health
a bit, you know? And I find that it... It does makes me calm. I like that calm is a good thing and you're in a beautiful beautiful place I'm gonna have to get up there one of these days if you do feel free to Look me up anybody actually anybody who comes up to work is right in the middle of two World Cup venues in Vancouver and Seattle gonna have lots of people in the area if there's me beekeepers who want to go through a hive drop me an email at I wouldn't be supply
at gmail .com and to go poke around. All right. I want to go salmon fishing too. Okay. All right. July. It's a short season these days. They haven't been running too many tournaments, but I've seen orca whales out there feeding. The southern residents were out here just last week and saw those. I actually saw a gray whale last week too. That's pretty crazy. Nice. Yeah. All right. Take care, Brian. All right. Take care. Thank you for having me. Thanks again for joining us on Be Love, Be
Keeping presented by Man Lake. Another big thank you goes to V2B Health for their support. Vita's Varroa Control Ranger products includes Epistan, Epigard, and now Varroxan Extended Release Oxalic Acids Trips. Hey, thanks a lot guys. And if you haven't yet, please subscribe to and follow the show, tell your friends about it, and click on over to BeLoveBeKeeping .com to sign up for our free newsletter. If you have a guest suggestion or topic you'd like discussed on the show, shoot
me an email, eric at BeLoveBeKeeping .com and remember If you're not just in it for the honey or the money you're in it for the love. See you next week