#610 How To Compare Religions; Unmasking the Uniqueness of Christianity - podcast episode cover

#610 How To Compare Religions; Unmasking the Uniqueness of Christianity

Apr 09, 202551 minEp. 610
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What makes Christianity fundamentally different from every other religion in human history? Matthew McKenna, Ph.D candidate in theology at Ave Maria University, joins Jack for a fascinating journey through G.K. Chesterton's masterpiece "The Everlasting Man" to answer this crucial question.

Read Matthews Article "How to Compare Religions" 

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Transcript

Speaker 1

I'm excited to be with Matthew McKenna . Matthew wrote an article how to Compare Religions with the Catholic Exchange . Those of you who follow the show I know that I like to write for the Catholic Exchange myself , so I like to stay up with those authors , especially these young guys that are reaching young hearts .

Before I bring Matthew on , I want to just touch on a sponsor of ours for today's show . I want to introduce AIM Utility Advisors , owned and operated by the Lally family , who are local Catholic friends , supporters of our work at the John Paul II Renewal Center .

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See the show notes for my friend TJ Lawley's direct phone number . I'll have a link in there for their website and be sure to tell them that Jack said hello . Just spoke to him not too long ago , matthew . It's so good to be with you , brother . Thank you for having me on .

Speaker 2

It's good to be not too long ago , matthew . It's so good to be with you , brother , thank you for having me on .

Speaker 1

It's good to be here too . Yeah , so we were just talking before we came on . Why don't you tell everybody where you're at right now and what you're studying ?

Speaker 2

So I'm a PhD student in theology at Ave Maria University in Florida . I'm about to defend my dissertation in the next couple of months , and that is explaining why only men can be priests , based on , well , what masculinity is . So , basically , I'm writing about the priesthood and masculinity .

Speaker 1

Yeah , and I just I got you know . Everybody knows that we launched Claymore for young people . I was just telling Matthew about it before we came on , so I have to have him back to talk about what he calls the masculine genius and the priesthood . A very , very exciting time . And you know , matthew , the same thing with today's topic , though .

When we're speaking to young people , old people , everybody . It's a confusing time . And you wrote this article how to Compare Religions . It's really showing that Christianity is different . And you did so by visiting one of my favorite friends of all time , who is GK Chesterton . For people that aren't familiar with GK Chesterton , he's kind of a one-of-a-kind guy too .

I mean an incredible way that he expresses himself , the thoughts that he has . He only had a high school education at GK Chesterton , but a mind was just all over the place Amazing . So , matthew , how did you end up writing the article ?

And , of course , tell us a little bit more about your background , because they'll know why you're also enamored with GK Chesterton .

Speaker 2

My love for Chesterton began quite unexpectedly . I was told by my boss , the head of my theology department that I work for and teach in . You're going to teach a class on Chesterton in the spring , and I was like well , I read Orthodoxy once in my life I read . Everlasting man once in my life . Do I remember what they're about ? Not really .

Let me go back and read . And so I just prepared to teach a class . I dived in and started reading . I think I read Orthodoxy about a dozen times in the three months leading up to the spring semester so I could teach it well and a ton of other books about him and I just absolutely fell in love .

That fundamentally changed my outlook on life and fundamentally changed my theology , my philosophy . Just totally fell in love with Chesterton , his way of thinking . I think it's extremely practical , extremely useful , extremely timely . He was writing 100 years ago , an absolute prophet .

He foresaw the Nazis coming to power and almost everything they were going to do , hitler's hatred for the Jews . He foresaw it all . And then , of course , he died before World War II ever started , in like 36 or 37 . He died something like that , but he foresaw everything . He was a great prophet , a total master of the Catholic tradition .

Like you said , he only had a high school diploma but he read everything . He was just a vicious reader read everything . It seems to have kind of had a deep understanding of everything he read too , if you read some of his books in the time he was writing .

The mode wasn't to constantly mention your sources and mention oh , by the way , I'm responding to this person . Oh , by the way , I learned from this person . Mode wasn't to give citations , but you can see he's involved , like referencing everybody ever Aristotle , plato , thomas Descartes , kant , nietzsche .

He mentions Nietzsche by name sometimes , but he's thinking and engaging with everybody . So when you read something like orthodoxy , you're engaging with the entire intellectual tradition of the West in 200 pages .

Speaker 1

Wow , that's a great way to sum that up . I never really thought of it that way , but you're exactly right . That is huh how did he get all that Matthew into that brain right Just by reading . High school education . But yeah , he must have been a ferocious reader , huh , yeah , so I love Chesterton got into ferocious reader , huh , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 2

So I love Chesterton , got into Chesterton tremendously and ever since then I've taught the class multiple times now and Chesterton comes up in everything I do . My students are always hearing me talk about Chesterton and everything I write Chesterton shows up somewhere , probably . And so what ?

He has the kind of point of the bigger book , his main , his magnum opus , his great work , everlasting man , which is also like the only book he really thoroughly edited Orthodoxy . He didn't really edit , he just wrote it and sent it off and published it .

But the one book he really worked on for a longer period of time and thought through a really , really deep layer and edited is Everlasting man .

That's like his main work , so to speak , and the point of Everlasting man is to show , well , christianity is one true faith , the Catholicism was one true faith , and so in the process of that , he gives a method for how we can compare religions , compare belief systems , and I think that's just incredibly useful for us today , when there are so many ideologies and

things being put out to us as live options , options , and there's so much discussion of what's the truth , faith , where , where's the truth be found , isn't an orthodoxy , isn't catholicism , proselytism , islam .

I had a friend who was grew up a prostitute , went to iraq as a soldier , converted to muslim , to islam , then came back to america as an islam muslim , then eventually became orthodox like a greek orthodox christian and then eventually went back to pros as a Muslim , then eventually became Orthodox like a Greek Orthodox Christian and then eventually went back to

Protestantism . So just all over the place people are just so many options out there .

Speaker 1

I'm surprised you could go back to and look it , we have evangelicals and Protestants listening to this show , yeah . So I'm always careful . They're good friends of mine . I gave a presentation last night with a good , a great , actually evangelical friend , but I'm surprised , after all that richness and tradition , that he would go back to being a Protestant .

But I don't want to get you off tangent too far you know , because usually it goes the other way once you're immersed in that . But hey , to each his own . But you make some really interesting points here and you said his main argument comes in two steps . First , he compares mankind to all other animals and finds that mankind is radically different .

So that's number one we want to explore just at least briefly here . And the second , chesterton compares Christ to all other men and he finds that Christ is radically unique among all religious founders . So you know , this is a confusing time . in the church we get some crazy ideas all the way at the Vatican , you know , all the way through .

So this is a great time to be talking about it . So why don't ?

Speaker 2

you go— I have no idea what we're talking about .

Speaker 1

Yeah , I don't want to put you on the line , I don't even want you to comment , I don't think , until you're done with your dissertation and nobody's going to pick on you there . But how about the first one ? Should we hit that at least briefly ? How's mankind ?

If you want to sum it up for people , a couple of things we have that the animals don't have , and sometimes the reason I say this , matthew , and I want to take a couple of minutes is because a lot of the times the young people don't really think about this right .

They've been told hey , we're all just a bunch of biology and you know blah , blah , blah , and it doesn't take you much to sit in a forest preserve and find out that , hey , we're a little different than the rest of the creatures , right ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , so so the Chesterton divides the work of the Everlasting man into two parts , part one and part two . And part one is about the uniqueness of man among the animals and part two about the uniqueness of Christ among men . Part one is bigger .

Speaker 1

Part one is bigger , it is oh you know what I forgot ? About that .

Speaker 2

I forgot about that , and there's eight chapters in part one and six in part two . Uh , because a big air of our time is first of all like , yeah , materialism are all . Are we just animals ? Are we just fancy monkeys ? A lot of people , that seems to be like the implicit , assumed position of most people we're just a bunch of animals , matters all there is .

There's no such thing as a spiritual soul . God , you know , we all just made that up . So chesterton begins like tackling that on . It's like no . And so the mode in which he engages this question is he says let's assume man is just an animal . Well , for sake of assumption , for argument , let's just assume man is just an animal like all the others .

Well , then you start looking around and comparing us actually to other animals . You realize there's not much to compare . Instead you can almost only contrast . Like we have this thing called like speech and animals really don't do it like there's all .

Every year you see some article in some science journal oh , the language of dolphins , it's just they make a couple sounds and like not , it's just not very impressive at all . Like animals just don't have speech and language like we do . One proof of that chesterton doesn't say say if we can like , add to it is that we have to learn language .

Humans learn language if . If you don't learn language , if you don't learn to speak by the age of like eight or nine or 10 , you actually never learned to speak , so like if you're like Tarzan , born in a jungle , raised by animals , you don't learn how to speak .

It's actually impossible for you to then learn how to speak If you don't learn yeah , if you don't learn , by the time you're like eight like eight , nine or ten , you never learn .

Speaker 1

And like the examples , we're in trouble with these government schools .

Speaker 2

Matthew , yeah thankfully , like reading and writing aren't the same , but , uh , speech is that way and the the examples we have are horrible situations where a child has been like abused and locked up in the basement their whole life .

Uh , so if those kids aren't rescued from their parents and brought to ordinary society by the time they're eight , nine or ten , they just never learn to speak . But animal , and also like our languages , are different . We have hundreds of different languages in the world . Right and like , as history has progressed , our language has progressed .

Like shakespeare's english is different from our english , which is different from early english . So even the same language like changes actually into different languages . Really , animals aren't like that . Even among like one species of animals , the basic sounds they make are all the same .

So you can take a monkey , raise it in isolation with other monkeys , and it's the language , so to speak , that he speaks is exactly the same as the monkeys . The sound , the sounds , the sounds for fear , for pleasure , for pain , are exactly the same as the air monkeys .

So what this proves is animals sounds is pure instance , but for us it's not instinct , we have to learn it and there's different languages , so it's more than instant . So that's like one thing you look at , but also just like obviously you reason capacity to reason . Animals don't have this every like . You might see a monkey use a stick as a tool .

I'm not impressed Like you might occasionally see , like one in the middle of one in a thousand monkeys .

Speaker 1

You're not easily impressed , are you , Matthew ?

Speaker 2

That's just not reason .

Speaker 1

You know , when you think about reason . I think this is what we see these young guys , these young Gen Z guys , because reason is always seeking the truth . What is the truth of things ? Yeah , and this is . Don't you think , matthew , that this is dawning on these young guys ? Something's wrong and somebody's lying to me . You know something's wrong .

Speaker 2

Yeah , we want the truth . This is uniquely human . Yeah , because we want the truth not just for usefulness sake , not just so I can use it to make better tools , but just to know the truth . Yes , the truth . We desire truth for its own sake , not just for application . So that's a huge difference between the monkey . That's a great point .

Speaker 1

I remember distinctly as a young man and that was some years ago , but I remember distinctly I went out on my own , I left home and I was seeking the truth . I remember perfectly well and it is exactly what you said , matthew , not so I can pontificate on it , but so that I would know how best to live . Right ? What is the truth of things ?

Yeah , so powerful . And then let's hit on one last thing here at least , which is this thing called free will .

Speaker 2

Huh , yeah , we just are free . Free will , huh , yeah , we just are free , no matter how many arguments some materialist scientist puts up against free will to say no , no . The atoms in your brain , the chemicals , we all find them extremely unsatisfying . Because our own experience of freedom I experience the capacity to choose , to choose good and to choose bad .

I experience , late that , regrets of my choices and judgments and condemnation of myself for past failures I have . I experienced free will . Animals don't seem to have such a thing like that and part of my free will then uh , that chester points to is the choice to worship religion , the , the judgment that I should worship something .

The idea of religion is radically unpractical , actually , like it doesn't really help us in this life . Chiefly , the point of religion is not to live a good life . Now , the point of religion is to honor the deity , to honor the supernatural . You kill your cow to honor God . That doesn't necessarily help you .

Some forms of bad religion , like the classic air of natural religion , is always going to be I kill cow and this convinces God to bring the rain , and even , like Plato and Aristotle are likeato and aerosol . Like this is stupid . We shouldn't be trying to control god with our cows , with our sacrifices and our prayers . God is god . We are not . We serve him .

We don't control him , that's , that's a common error in all religion yeah , and I don't know if a religious instinct of man is radically unique among the animals we're the only ones ones . All men , chesterton points out , feel this religious instinct . We want to worship , we want to bow down and kneel before God .

Animals don't have anything resembling that at all .

Speaker 1

Yeah , and I think we should just dwell on that for a second before we go too fast with that that there is something that's touching us , to move us right , to transcend , of course , what we would call sin and death . Right , we want to transcend that somehow . We know something's not quite right , something's reaching our heart .

This is a big problem , I think , obviously with the technology today . Right , because it spends all the time with this noise and distracting us . The natural man , let's call it , you know , without all the distractions has a natural inclination , when he's sitting in silence , to say there's got to be something more . You feel this movement , right ?

I mean the ancients you mentioned . They would call this often eros , which is , we think of , just erotic or sensual , and it has some components to that . But it's really what is true , what is good , what is beautiful , right ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , some great thing beyond me , like the idea of wonder at the universe that , like the beach or a great mountain view , gives to a man . It seems like birds should have awesome views all the time whenever they fly , but they never just stop and look at the sunset .

But they , the bird , definitely has a better view of the sunset than we do , because it's like flying up there in the sky watching the sunset , but it doesn't seem to stop and then also paint pictures of the sunset . But all humans ever the . What chesterton does here is points . What's the early ?

What are the earliest records of the oldest humans we have as it ? It's paintings , it's art on a wall in the cave , art somewhere . These are the oldest records of human civilization we have . The oldest cave art , I think is something like 50,000 years old . And so he points out art is the signature of man that nobody else , no other animal , does .

Birds build nests , beavers build dams , but they all make them exactly the same style , with no variation . Different species of bird make different types of nests , but within the species they're all the same , and this again proves it's instinct , not choice , and so not art .

Speaker 1

Yeah , you know , it's amazing . I remember Chesterton saying and you know , don't quote me exactly , but he said every time that you discover a prehistoric man , he's already civilized . Yeah , he's already doing art and drawing pictures of things , clay , pottery , you know all those things that we're finding already , right .

So we know , we know mankind is different than the animals and you know that we're unique and it's it's unique right that somehow we're created different and it's not changing . You know , we , I , when I was a kid , matthew , it was that missing link . Right , it was evolution .

It was a missing link and the more we find out about it , the more that link is getting bigger and bigger and and and bigger , right yeah it's been refuted really at this point , so let's in every way .

Speaker 2

We're just so different . We're the only ones that are naked . We're so weak . We're actually , as animals . We're quite bad animals , right the only ones that are naked . We're so weak . We're actually as animals . We're quite bad animals , right .

The only thing , the reason we can survive , is because of our reason , which is , again , unique and different from all the others .

Speaker 1

Really , without your reason , without being able to make weapons , we're pretty yeah , pretty defenseless against almost all the big predators .

Speaker 2

Yeah , yeah , even taking down a deer would be killing a simple deer , white-tailed deer it . Yeah , yeah , even taking down a deer would be killing a simple deer , white-tailed deer .

Speaker 1

It would be hard without a weapon . Yeah , yeah , it would .

Well , we put that out there and I think it's important for young people all of us again just to sit out , go out and sit in the forest , just your neighborhood forest , because you don't have to go on vacation someplace and just sit in silence and you'll experience , I think , everything that we're talking about here . It's so very real .

And then , once we do that , he starts to compare . Now , okay , we have this movement right of the heart , we're looking for something more . And then , matthew , he gets into your second part of this thing and Chesterton's second part , when he compares Christ to all other men . Let's get into that , because it's really fascinating .

And the way that you caught up on breaking that down too , with him into those four categories , it was really beautiful .

Speaker 2

Yeah , so the second part of the everlasting man is , of course , well , christianity . It's going to be Christianity , and so therefore we have to look at Christ . So , chesham , before he directly looks at Christ , he gives us a fourfold distinction or classification of different types of religions .

So , instead of naming every religion and all their doctrines or whatever things he said , there's four types , there's four species of religion or genuses of religion , so to speak . First we have monotheism .

This classification , this division , he says , is a psychological division , which means it's a division how this type of religion affects the person , what it reveals about their outlook on life , what it reveals what type of person , what their temperament is . It's not exactly the four temperaments , but that type of thing .

So first we have monotheism , where God , the idea is God is holy , as in other , god is transcendent , he's really far out there , he's really really different from us , god's not like us , he's really far away , he's really really powerful and really , really awesome .

Now , in the state of original sin , in a fallen world , it's hard to know much about the one true God , because we're fallen , because we have darkness of intellect and weakness of will , and so it's hard for us to know anything about God , except that he exists . And so what do we do ?

Well , the pious thing to do , instead of saying wrong things about the one holy , true God who is so far beyond us , is we don't really say anything at all . And so Justin points out that monotheism was probably the earliest belief , because , well , the earliest humans actually , like adam and eve , were like new god and their kids were told about god .

Uh , so monotheism was like the first belief , he points out . In a fallen world , the pious thing to do is kind of to forget god , because if you try and say anything about him you're going to say something wrong . And so monotheism kind of deteriorates . In a fallen world , like where original sin abounds , monotheism kind of deteriorates into polytheism .

He calls this just basically paganism . Paganism , he says , is the second type of religion , and in paganism we know we don't know about God , we're aware of our ignorance about God , but we know there must be a creator of all this thing . Everything we see around us , there's creators . We observe providence .

We know there's a natural law Right is right and wrong is wrong . Certain things are right , certain things are wrong . If you read the agents carefully , you always find some kind of reference to the moral order from the heavens , the moral order from gods like cicero is especially big on . This is very , very clear about this .

We're also seeing some of the greek plays , and plato sometimes too . And so but we know , we don't know anything , we , we're aware of our ignorance . So what do we do ? Well , in order to satisfy our religious instincts , we kind of make stuff up , we tell stories . We have myths . We tell stories about what God might be like .

So Chesterton says paganism is mythic and it's not a description of what is , but a description of what could be or what might be . We almost fantasize about what could be , how great God could be , and we tell stories about that . And over time the stories kind of deteriorate themselves and get less noble and less true .

Speaker 1

But you know , it's really interesting , though , again , just , you know , there has to be a moral code , right ? I mean , somehow we realize that it can't just be chaos . But you know , you look around the universe and you say , wow , there's an order to the world , right , yeah , there's an order to this .

And now I have to live with an order too in my own heart and in a culture . You have to live with it .

And this , matthew , I just want to stop here for a second because , again , when we're speaking to young people , we live in this age of moral relativism , right , I mean , 90% of the young people surveyed today , whether they really understand what they're saying or not , but 90% would say they're moral relativists . But you can't live like that .

Speaker 2

They don't really analyze this ? They don't really , they're not really .

They say they're moral relativists , but that seems to be a defense against moral norms which they find oppressive , so like when somebody says , hey , you shouldn't sleep with your boyfriend or girlfriend , which they're told are oppressive I don't know if they actually understand it or not yeah , actually that's bad , that's wrong , you shouldn't do that they say well , I'm

a moral relativist , that's your opinion , that's not mine . But of course that young man knows that if somebody else touched his girlfriend he'd be angry and he would say what they did was wrong . Somebody else forced themself upon his girl . They'd say that was wrong , you should pay because that was wrong , no matter what you think about it .

So we actually all , everybody believes in some moral , like absolute moral norm . So like , yeah , moral relativism isn't really possible . And this is CS Lewis's point in Abolition of man . You can't actually live as a moral relativist .

Speaker 1

Yes , it's true . So in the pagan mythologies , you know they're look , they're all over the board , right ? But a lot of them taught these , you know , know these values of life and virtues and heroism and courage and and all these things , these manly things that you were talking about . You know what does it mean to be a man ? You know these things .

You know you , we might have made them up , but a lot of them were good stories , weren't they ?

Speaker 2

yeah , yeah , they were not like terrible stories . We're like we're imagining good stories at first , at least at first like good stories , iliad theodosicy , like stories of heroism . Well , there's some good thing here .

Speaker 1

This goodness must come from god in some way yeah , but of course there's some problems , and I think you you mentioned it here right , the mystic religions are not complete , neither do they attempt to satisfy the whole person .

This is really important when I was when I was studying , even things like you know , even outside of , say , pagan , you know like , like buddhism , hinduism , you know , that's what I found at the end . Nothing against that I . I thought there were some great qualities there , but at the end they just left me like man , it's just like not enough .

Not , there's got to be , another step , you know . So , so , so that that degree of not this completeness right , there's just I , man , there's gotta be something more right . So we go on , don't we ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , we do .

Speaker 1

And then you mentioned witchcraft and and I love the way it starts out in your article just a sentence witchcraft is essentially a bid for power . It's true , isn't it , when you ?

Speaker 2

really think about that , yeah , so yeah , this is chesterton's third like type of religion . You have a witchcraft religion which recognizes there are divine realities out there , there are supernatural powers , forces , beings out there . They're powerful , like by definition supernatural .

They have more power than us if and the point is , if you make a deal with the devil , the devil keeps his promises , kind of like , you can sell your soul and you will get rich from it .

If you sack , if you make a deal , the devil will sacrifice babies to you if you give us victory in battle , devil's very happy to make you victory victorious in battle . if you do all sorts of horrible things to it like , the end result of this course is he takes your soul . You do horrible things .

He takes your soul , but he's very happy to make you rich and powerful and famous in this life and of course he can like . Christianity , especially new Testament , is very clear the earth belongs to Satan . When Satan offers everything , christ says like I will give you these things , christ says , and they're not yours to give , he's well .

No , you should only worship God . So I'm only going to worship God . But he doesn't deny that Satan does have the power over the earth . He does .

Speaker 1

Well , it's interesting . It reminds me , of course , of that famous , you know , ephesians 6 from St Paul . Right , you know you're not dealing with just flesh and blood , you're dealing with the powers and the principalities .

You know , matthew , I'm going to just dwell on this again because you're saying so many good things and I don't want people to go over this quick . These powers are real in this world too , you know , so we can talk about . You know there are real witches out there and they're actually growing . There actually are a lot , you know , just like Genesis 3, .

You know you can be like God and you can decide what's good , what's evil . We want that power , don't we ? You see that with the world elites , you know the world elites , look , I'm not going to put you on the spot here , matthew , but I watch them speak sometimes and I'm thinking , man , they have been possessed .

You know whether I'm not talking about a total possession or not , but something's up with that . I mean you talk about , you know , selling your soul to the devil . You know this stuff can really happen .

Speaker 2

Oh , it's real . Chester makes a great point about witchcraft . He said it's a religion for practical people where you kind of abandon the worship of the supernatural and use the supernatural for benefits here and now . So it's a practical religion , oriented toward practical results .

But of course you do that by trying to control the supernatural powers , by making a deal with them . He says this requires sophistication or civilization , intelligence . He kind of said so , justin kind of flips . We have this idea from I don't know where , but some kind of false idea from modern universities , but that witchcraft is a thing of savages .

The savages were , or the uneducated , the dumb idiots of the past . The unsophisticated , uneducated savages , uncivilized people did witchcraft and human sacrifice and cannibalism . And Cheston flips that and says no , no , no , in order to make a deal with the devil you have to kind of be smart , you have to have a level of intelligence .

So witchcraft type religion , trying to make deals with the devil , you need education . In some sense you need to be like a rather advanced civilization . This isn't the earliest civilizations , like the man in the state of nature , as we're so might put it .

But actually this is only possible for some kind of high level civilization , he points out historically well like the mayans , tons of human sacrifice . That's witchcraft . The babylonians similar things . Carthage he has a whole chapter on carthage and the the war , the punic wars of carthage and rome as the witchcraft religions versus the pagan religions .

That didn't practice witchcraft . Rome did not practice human sacrifice and such things . They told their stories and offered sacrifices , but not human sacrifices . But Carthage did a ton of human sacrifice actually and we always forget that .

Speaker 1

Yeah , unbelievable , right . And so now , and I could stay there for another half an hour , easy , but let's . Unfortunately , time's going to tick and I want you to talk about philosophies and other kind of religion .

Speaker 2

Yeah . So Cheston's fourth type of religion is the philosophical religion , which he says isn't really a religion at all . It's just you seek wisdom for a good life . So he names things like Confucianism , buddhism . That's like not really religion . It's not really concerned with worshiping or even interacting with the supernatural .

You're just trying to have a good life here and now . You recognize some basic moral values , you try to do what's right , have a good life , have happiness here and now , but that's all it is . It's philosophy , not religion . And he says usually in the ancient world these four different types of religions got separated .

They would not be united to each other , they were separate . They were never unified , they were always separate . Things Like Aristotle , who probably had the best idea of God , naturally knowable by reason , so you might say one of the best philosophers , still practiced the pagan mythic cults and stuff like that .

Speaker 1

So they were they were they were separated , even in his mind , even in his life yeah , you know , you're trying to say what's a practical way to live right and you know , philosophy is usually . It's really an awe and wonder . Also right I'm , and I'm seeking the truth , but then it's not enough . And you know , you had that divine within you .

And just to make this point , because you study right now , you're studying St Thomas Aquinas too For people that don't know , I don't realize , or I don't know how many people actually realize , the beauty of our Catholic faith . And this is kind of segue into what we're going to be talking about next with Christianity is , you know , is also eminently practical .

You're right here , but but ? but the Thomists right , they built on Aristotle , you know so they took those ancient Greeks , Plato first , and then , and then St Thomas comes and says you know , let's , let's , let's try to fit Aristotle in here , Right , For for some obvious reasons we won't have time to get into .

But then the divine is built , Christianity is built there , and this is a stable foundation , right ? Yeah , it makes this awe and wonder that we search for this practical idea of philosophy and the divine all together , and it all comes together in this person , doesn't it ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , yeah . So Chetan's point then , about how Christianity is and Christ is only in Christianity . In Christ do we see the unity of all four of these elements . Christianity unites what's never before even been attempted , even been tried to unite it . So , of course , Christianity is .

Christianity is , of course , monotheism , one God , but it's also kind of mythic , like we care about the stories . But Christianity , the story becomes real . God actually comes to earth . The Greeks told stories about God coming and walking among them as like a cow to seduce a girl or whatever , like weird things .

But Christ actually came and walked among us , like the myth became real , so to speak . But also , it's not witchcraft , but it is eminently practical . If you think about the biggest issues , what are the biggest issues we actually faced ? Well , sin , our own evil , evil in the world , moral evil in the world , and death .

And that's what Christianity came to solve . Christ comes to conquer death and give us grace to enable us to live a good , moral life . So Christianity isn't super practical . If you want to get rich , powerful and famous in this life , it is the most practical thing .

If you want salvation and eternal life , if you want perfect , utter bliss and happiness and fulfillment with God , it's the only thing that'll get you that , and anybody that actually tries to conquer sin in their own life realizes that you can't do it on your own .

Speaker 1

Yeah , and talk about a practical thing , matthew , and this is important too . Pope Benedict XVI said our faith is never going to be an ethical decision or some lofty philosophical idea .

It's always going to be an encounter with an event , an encounter with a person , and that encounter will give you a new horizon and a decisive direction for your life , and so this is important . You think about all these ancients . They sensed something , even in those stories that they told . Right , it's almost like it was in us .

Matthew , we're fallen again , so we don't grasp it , but even those ancients right in telling these myths about this God coming into Earth . It's almost like man . We need this to happen , and then it happens , and it changes everything , doesn't it ? But my point being , you can encounter this person , and so that's the power of the story here , that's the power .

Speaker 2

Yeah , yeah , you can encounter him and then your life can be changed . Like these things can be united for you . Your desire , he says , like all these things are united in the person monotheism , like the desire for the , the knowledge of the one true god , the one , one source of everything is there .

But also like all your , your imaginations , uh , the , what you wish could be true in the myths . When we talk about the myths , what , everything , all your imaginations , what you wish could be true in the myths , what we talk about in the myths , all your dreams can be met and also you can encounter God . You can be part of the myth .

It's no longer just a story that other people do . It's not just talking about a kid .

Speaker 1

Wow , what a beautiful way to put it .

Speaker 2

Yeah , we get wrapped into the myth . It's not . God doesn't become just . He's not just the God of Abraham . Like part of this is the Old Testament idea that God is the God of Abraham , isaac and Jacob . He is the God of us . Our names are now important . How we name God is he's God of Abraham , isaac and Jacob .

But then in baptism God becomes the God of Jack and the God of Matthew . He becomes like our God and we get united into that story . And the story , like Chesterton , ends the everlasting man by talking about the church . But now the church is us . We are members of the church .

Speaker 1

We're caught up in the mythic story , in the real myth . You know I just got goosebumps when you said that , and usually to me that's like a little Holy Spirit moment when I feel this that means I got to stop there just for a second again , you know . I mean Again , say that again . Just you know how we get caught up and we become part of this .

We know we want to be part of this bigger story .

Speaker 2

Yeah .

Speaker 1

It took something else called revelation right to actually unpack this , but it took revelation of the person who actually came in , you know .

Speaker 2

Yeah , because Christ , like revelation , started the story , like Christ came into the story . Christ came into history Originally like God , not just Christ . With Abraham , right , he chose a people . He chose a person and a nation and made a people out of them . And then their history becomes our history , the salvation history , the history of Israel .

We're incorporated into it , we're grafted on branches , grafted onto the vine that is Israel . We are participators in the story of David . That's our story now . And then , of course , christ comes . God enters the story himself . The author of the book has come into the book as a character .

The creator of the video game is now a character you can play with and go on missions with , so to speak . But now God's here and we get baptized into his life , shares in his life , baptized into his death . Christ's death on the cross isn't just a story , it's something we re-present . We make presence at the mass and then we unite ourselves to that .

Our , our lives are united to Christ's life . And also just the whole church , like Acts of the Apostles , part of the Bible is just the story of what the members of the church did . But then , of course , acts of the Apostles ends , but the church doesn't end there . The church keeps going . We are the church .

We are continuing what the apostles did in Acts of the Apostles evangelizing the world and worshiping God . The life of Christ continues in us .

Speaker 1

You know , what you just did so wonderfully I mean really beautifully is and this is probably Chester to his point , but I think you did it even clearer in my mind you know , we had this desire for everything that you said , everything that you said . We have this desire .

This is really important when those young men , again , this Gen Z men , are waking up and saying something's wrong . That's what everybody was saying , that's what we're saying here .

Speaker 2

Yeah , and they all . We all want to be part of something bigger . We all want to be part of a bigger story . Whoever your hero is , probably most of us can't be on tom brady's team . Only a hand , only 10 of us can play with tom brady at a time .

If , like , I'm not a football athlete , but if I was , like , my greatest dream might have been I'll play with tom brady . Yeah , very few of us actually get to do that . Yeah , very few of us get to storm the beaches of normandy with patton or patton wasn't at normandy but very few of us get to serve under these heroic generals .

Very few of us get to serve under these heroic generals . Very few of us get to fight alongside Achilles or America's great , most decorated warrior oh gosh , what's his name ? The guy from World War II . He was America's most decorated warrior . I forget his name now . It's embarrassing , but , like , very few of us get to fight Now .

Speaker 1

My dad is still alive from World War II , so I was going to say my dad , but it wasn't him .

Speaker 2

Audie Murphy , eddie Murphy .

Speaker 1

You know , I'm ashamed . I should know those things , you know .

Speaker 2

I think it's Audie , something like that , something like that . Anyway , like America's most decorated , he's America's most decorated soldier . Very few of us get to do these epic things , but actually . William Wallace .

Speaker 1

Yeah , william Wallace , exactly , braveheart right .

Speaker 2

Yeah , very few of us get to attack Mordor with Aragorn , very few of us get to defend Helm's Deep with Gimli . But we actually do get to live with Christ . We actually do get to die with Christ . We actually do get to evangelize with the church . We do get to be characters in the story of Christ .

We get to be involved with this great captain and savior and king , jesus Christ christ . We get to be his servants and his brothers . We get to call his father father . He came and made his father to be our father and his mother to be our mother . So we get to be brothers with the humanity of christ and so sons in the son of the father .

We get incorporated into this story . And you know , matthew , I wrote an article , boy , it was probably a couple years ago it might have been in the catholic exchange .

Speaker 1

We get incorporated into this story and you know , matthew , I wrote an article about it . It was probably a couple of years ago . It might've been in the Catholic Exchange and I quoted Chesterton in there .

Because we're looking for heroes , you know , and it reminds me , you know , the power that you're describing is rising us up to the point where I am the hero , you know , in my own story , as a father , as a husband , as those people and I don't create , I don't say I'm the hero , but I see the way my kids or my grandkids now look at me .

And if you rise up with Christ , you give them a model , even in our fallen nature and I'm very , very fallen , right and far from perfect , and they don't expect me to be perfect , but they still say , hey , if we need something or somebody's on our case , we know we can go to grandpa or dad or whatever . And we all become that hero .

If we take on Christ , if we live as great friends , good husbands , whatever that is , whatever that role , a good priest , a great priest , a bishop you become the hero of your own story , whether people know it or not , they don't see it or not right .

Sometimes you climb pretty quietly on the cross yourself , but you become a hero in the story and I think we all want that , don't we ?

As men , I mean who wants to look back at your life , matthew , when you're 85 years old , sitting on a rocking chair sipping lemonade , thinking about all the things you could have , should have , would have done right , yeah , yeah , it sounds horrible . It does sound horrible . Yeah , but that's where we're going if we're not careful .

Yeah , right , yeah , fearful , yeah , yeah , look at , look at how many . How look ? I'm from chicago 80 of those young boys in the minority homes are grown up without fathers .

You think about the effect that that has on the , on the , on the absent fathers and also on those sons , right , they say most of the , the men in prison it's like a holding pen for children without fathers .

Speaker 2

Yeah , yeah , like 80% of people of men in prison didn't have a father at home , something like that .

Speaker 1

Right , so we need those . My point being and your point right we need to be the heroes in our own stories . Yeah , so I never finished my Chesterton thing . So Chesterton was asked the famous question you know what's wrong with Christianity ? And he said I am . Yeah .

I think in the article I said something like I think if GK was around today he would say the same thing . He would reply what's wrong with this culture , what's wrong with what we see ?

Speaker 2

I am .

Speaker 1

Do we have to all step up ? What you're saying is if we can get everybody , or at least a lot more young people , to stand up right and say I am .

Speaker 2

I don't know what that means , but I'm , I'm willing to walk into the story , right , yeah , to walk in and then live , live as part of it and partake in it and do it .

And this includes , like , the difficulties of it , of living it , but it also includes , like believing and embracing the philosophy of the church , the , the truths of the creed of the of the church , which , of course , protects the truth of the church , the truths of the creed of the church , which , of course , protects the truth of the story .

No , jesus literally came and literally died and literally rose from the dead . It wasn't just not , it's not something we made up later on . It's not something Christians , 200 years later , made up and wrote in a book . No , christ literally came and walked in Nazareth , in Jerusalem .

He literally died under this guy punches Pilate , and then he literally rose from the dead body and soul three days later anthony , as we start to get run out of time here , I I want you to stay with that .

Speaker 1

What you just said there , because you know . You say here christ claimed to be god to come among men , but he did it in a different way . He he didn't come to to leave a written text , you said . You know he didn't come to write a book . He didn't actually even come just to teach us things , even though of course that was part of it .

He came for what , matthew ? Before the last segment of today's show , I just want to thank our sponsor , aim Energy Group . That's aimenergygroupcom . You know demand for electricity and natural gas is growing tremendously across the nation . Is your business prepared for the resulting cost increase of 15% or more in the coming years ?

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This is unique . Nobody else does this . First of all . You say in here , I'll just say it real quick , so I don't goof you up , but he's the only one to claim to be God first of all . Yeah , you say in here , I'll just say it real quick , so , so , so , I don't goof you up , but but you know , he's the only one to claim to be god first of all .

And people don't realize that . The buddha , you say in here , abraham mo , muhammad confucius , they didn't say they were god , did they ? So he says I'm god , and then he comes into the story , but he comes in for a purpose . That kind of blows your mind , doesn't it ?

Speaker 2

yeah , this is . This is just his point that the founder of the religions , christ , is radically unique and unlike all their founders of religion , he exactly said he claims to be God and also he doesn't come to teach Abraham . What was Abraham's mission or task ? Have children , have descendants as numerous as the stars . So what he did ?

He had Isaac Confucius taughtdha , taught different things with a philosophy or enlightenment muhammad and conquered and fought christ . Yes , yeah , he taught a lot . Christ the teacher very important , certain amounts as crucial , but christ didn't come mainly as a teacher . They they called him teacher , but he came mainly as the Savior .

This , of course , when Gabriel appears to Mary , who used to celebrate his feast day yesterday , march 25th , you will conceive in your womb a very son and he will save his people from their sins . Christ came to save us from sin and death by the cross .

So of course , fulton Sheen says Fulton Sheen was also a huge fan of Chesterton says Christ is the only man ever born to die . Christ came to die . His mission three years long not very impressive . The lives and careers of all your religious founders were a lot longer than that . Christ was his mission , his public ministry three years and aimed at the cross .

He comes to the cross . He predicts his own death and resurrection and then does it and says on the cross it is finished . This is what he came to do . He didn't come just to teach us moral truth . He wasn't just a moral teacher .

He came to die and save us from our sins and then overcome death in his resurrection , so we could also overcome death in his resurrection as well .

Speaker 1

And this is the power . You know , Jesus didn't come to manage our sins . He came with power and this is what we can encounter that power and the only way you're going to encounter that power , Matthew and this is so important for young guys , right , why should I believe in this guy , this Jesus Christ ? Because he came with power .

You know , if you get down on your knees and you really ask , right , Matthew , 7 , 7 , huh , Ask , seek and knock , huh . If you do that , he's not going to look , he's not a vending machine , he's not going to just spit out the candy for you . It may take a while .

It may take , because Jesus says hey , Matthew , I want your heart , but I want your effort too . Right , In order to get your heart , you got to put some skin in the game too , but I will give you the grace right to complete that game . And this is something we can encounter . So it's not just like boom , it's over here on the shelf .

That power of the cross that you're talking about , Matthew , we can experience it , we can . The cross is the power of the cross that you're talking about , Matthew .

Speaker 2

We can experience it . We can . The cross is the way Christ overcomes death . He could have done it other ways , but the way he did it was to die . And the resurrection is like the proof . He says the Jews ask him for a sign . He says , well , destroy this temple in three days , I will raise it up . And then he does . And it actually happened .

And the historical proof of the resurrection is that the apostles preached the resurrection at pentecost , 50 days like after the ascension , so something like less than a couple months after the resurrection happened . They preached the resurrection . They said , hey , christ rose from the dead in jerusalem . Jerusalem was not it's not like a modern city .

It was really small , a couple hundred yards across . Everybody there could walk over to the tomb and see the empty tomb so is that right ?

Speaker 1

I ?

Speaker 2

I didn't even realize that yeah , because ancient Jerusalem is something . Diameter is something like 500 yards . It's not very like , not very long . It takes a couple minutes to walk that far and of course it's a crisscrossy streets busy streets so it take longer to go through the city .

But , like the ancient cities , especially drusum , because the whole city was walled in and because you want to have a walled in city and it's really hard to build walls and build rocks and stuff , so you have a smaller city right and so that's why , like , you sit at the gates of the city to do things , because you don't have these big .

Ancient cities were smaller . Especially drusum was a small city . Everybody could just walk over in a couple minutes or like in an afternoon to go look at the tomb .

Speaker 1

Is that right ? You know , I never really thought about that , I don't know why .

Speaker 2

Yeah , you could possibly preach the resurrection of Christ like a couple months after it happened , if he wasn't actually risen , if the tomb wasn't actually empty and the Roman soldiers who were the guards of the tomb were also there . They were still in jerusalem at this time .

You could also go over talk to the talk to the roman soldiers , be them in the tavern or something , and talk to them over a beer , so like and those , and saint paul when he was talking about those 500 witnesses , that some of them were gone then at that time .

Speaker 1

But they were still walking around there too , right ? They could tell you too .

Speaker 2

Isn't that crazy . The resurrection was like a provable fact back then because you could go look at the tomb very easily .

Speaker 1

So this is so great , Matthew , but we're going to sum it up , brother . I got you over time already here . Hey , give us a short summary . I've got your article here in front of me . It's summed up really well , but why don't you give us your last thoughts on this ? Put a bow on this for us .

I know there's a few things you could probably say , but yeah .

Speaker 2

So we're at a time where there's so many ideas available . Any one of us could study any religion we wanted to over the internet . There's so much information so we need to understand how we can compare and figure out which one's true , which . What's the true faith ? Where do I actually find salvation ?

When you try to compare Christianity to other faiths , you end up not being able to compare much because they're so different . You end up almost only being able to contrast . Christianity alone claims that's the founders of God . Christianity alone has the way to overcome , even claims to have the way to overcome sin and death .

Christianity alone combines monotheism with a rich philosophy in Trinitarian theology , with the robust ethical system , with also a real historical story . The vigor that comes with myth and story , because it's a myth come true . Christianity alone does all these things . It's so unique among other faiths the , the .

The vigor that comes with myth and story , because it's a myth come true . Christianity alone does all these things . It's so unique among other faiths , that unique because the self is a big argument in support of its reality whoa .

Speaker 1

Honest to goodness , matthew , that was awesome , brother , I'm gonna , I'm gonna , I'm gonna . Definitely can this . You know , the beauty of a podcast is they can . They can go up on your shelf and keep pulling them down , just like Everlasting man or Orthodoxy . We can keep pulling it down and looking at it . I'm going to link your article in the show notes .

Anything else you want me to put in the show notes no , no , that's good . All right then . Thanks for joining us everyone . Hope you enjoyed today's show . Talk to you again soon . Bye-bye .

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