#501 Transforming Relationships Through Divine Love

And St Athanasius , an early church father and a doctor of the church , said the son of God became man so that we might become God . You know I make a wild guess at this , but I bet you , most of us , are a bit disconnected from this divine life that these saints are pointing us to .

Yet Saint John Paul II said there's an echo of the story of this divine life that we're created for , inscribed in each human heart , in your human heart , and if you put on the proper lens if I put on the proper lens we can get in touch with this echo within us in such a way that we have that aha moment .

See , that's the genus of St John Paul II's theology of the body .

It connects our lived experience of life to the gospel in such a way that our life takes on a whole new meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today . Who am I ? What's my purpose ?

Why were we created male and female ? How do I find happiness here on earth ? How do I find love that satisfies forever ? Hey , glad you're with me , I'll be . I'm excited to be with Linda Piper in Pennsylvania . Linda , good to see you . How are you ?

Oh my gosh , I got to take out the garbage . You know these time stamps right . Give us this time that we came from someplace , we're maturing . Now it reminds me like , okay , where is this going ? It's good to do that , it's good to look up and I think that's part of today's episode from John Paul II . He gave this on September 1st 1982 . This is podcast .

This is number 92 , linda . We've done 92 of these and at the end we are going somewhere . We started in the beginning , created Imago Dei , created in the image and likeness of God , and where are we going ? We're finishing that . We're heading toward the marriage of the Lamb , and what happens is , and what we're going to be talking about today .

Those are telling one story . Those are the two bookends telling one great story that we were created in the image and likeness of God . Literally , sometimes people in today's I think in today's culture , linda , we are sensing something weird going on .

I mean , so many people I talk to they don't know always what is going on , but something powerful and weird is coming on right . You know this battle between good and evil . We see it out there , right . We see it out there so clearly . We see the attack on marriage and families and especially children .

I mean it's really diabolical and at the end of the day , we have to keep in mind where we're going and that this image of who we are as human beings , we bring the good into the world . We literally bring the good into the world , and this is to be filled with the love of Christ . Bring this into the world and change the world .

Now , when we don't do that right , when we don't do that , the evil just takes over , and so this is a battle between good and evil , and so our marriages , our marriages , are the same thing . You know how do you love imperfect people , linda , who grow old , who don't always have your back , who lose their looks and their youth ?

You know , get out of shape . Don't get personal here dozens of annoying habits , right , that were kind of cute and then after 40 or 50 years they're not so cute anymore . And and you know I I do this analogy for engaged couples where I say , yeah , it's kind of cute . You know your .

You know your fiance is comfortable enough to cut his toenails on your couch right and you think it's so cute . Well , 40 years later you won't think that's so cute , you know .

But he does , you know he loves us in our brokenness and just asks that we love him back , and so that's , I think , where we're going to dive in here today . You know that true love of Christ for his bride , the church , as expressed in our marriages and families , and if we don't link those two together , good luck .

Good luck with trying to live in this crazy world that we come from Exactly .

You know , we're body and soul and we the expression of what we're feeling is happening in various ways and various actions that people are taking , but we're feeling it at the deeper level because we're looking at what's going on ?

Yeah , you know all the brokenness and we're feeling it at that spiritual level , which just reminds me once again that this is a spiritual battle that we're in and if we only just keep it at that surface level , we're not going to get it .

Because the Pope talks about again the analogy of the spousal bond that unites a husband and wife with the spousal bond that unites Christ and the church , and so how do I keep going , year after year ? It's questioning , perhaps at a deeper level . You know , has that bond that is supposed to be there ? Is it there ?

You know it should have been there from the beginning of my marriage and yet if I haven't worked at strengthening that bond with my husband , all those exterior things make it very difficult .

But if I have been working at that bond , which is that understanding that we have become a one flesh union , that I belong to him and he belongs to me , and that's something the Pope impacts a lot as we go through this but this idea that we are in this together at a deeper level than just all the extraneous things that require us to do to get through life

, so I get through it . Answering your question is by understanding that he and I , together , must be on that journey towards eternal life . And how do we get there ? You opened with the marriage feast of the Lamb eternal life .

There are many ways we express what it is with being in heaven , but in this analogy the Pope makes it very clear that he's saying what Christ is trying to do is to cleanse the church .

He gave himself for her to cleanse her with the washing of water accompanied by the word so as to present the church before himself all glorious us , so that he could present all of us back to himself holy and immaculate . What does that mean for me in my day-to-day life ?

It's like am I on that journey with my husband together to become holy without blemish or spot or wrinkle ? And it just makes . It brings all the philosophical way of thinking about it down to a very practical level that I need to deal with , be open to .

Yeah , he's imperfect , so am I , and we're going to accept that and we're going to try to work to make it better , right , to eliminate some of the annoyances between each other . But what is the purpose of it all ? As you said in the beginning , where are we going ? What is this all about ?

To become holy so that we will one day be joined with Christ at that marriage feast .

Don't forget again that we're linking this together , and so that journey , that reciprocal love that a husband and a wife are supposed to have with each other , is a tiny reflection , a created version of the relationship , the reciprocal relationship that Christ has for us , and so this is the idea If you don't link these two together , you'll never understand it .

You know we live outside . You know we hear that so often . You know I don't want God in my bedroom . You know , in other words , I don't want really God in my sexual life or in my marriage per se , and that's exactly where you don't want to throw God out of is in your bedroom , is in your life . When you do , you're living delinked like cut flowers .

John Paul would say and this is what St Paul does in Ephesians husbands love your wives , wives love your husbands , as Christ loves the church and gave himself up for her . This is one great sacrament . In the very beginning , before sin , in Genesis , this was one great sacrament .

How did we make visible the invisible God in the world , that love story in the world ? We did that through our reciprocal love , which is a tiny sacramental sign of the inner life of the Trinity . When you said earlier that we're sensing something evil , sinister , maybe , perhaps in our spirits , in our souls , this is tingling from that , you know .

And here this is an important point , I think , when you look around the world , you see , I think we're split in about half . Half the people I talk to seem to be sensing something , and the other half are just angry , crazy . When I say crazy , they're apathetic , they don't even look around , they just accept everything .

They're , they're , they're apathetic , they don't even understand , they don't even look around . And you know , they , they just accept everything . They accept the gender ideologies , the , the climate hoax , that the , you know , give me another vaccine and a booster , and blah , blah , blah , blah , right , we can go on and on and on . Right .

And you know , put trump in prison for 150 years , you know when , when we're letting criminals that actually murdered and raped and pillaged , and we're letting them off the hook , and so all this insanity goes on . And so who's tingling ? Where does that come from ? I was just reading 2 Thessalonians , 2 . And it's really the coming of the lawless one .

So St Paul is talking about that , you know and the lawless one will be revealed , and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming .

The coming of the lawless one , by the activity of Satan , will be with all power and pretended signs and wonders , with all wicked deception of those who are to perish because they refuse to love the truth and to be saved . Therefore , god sends upon them a strong delusion .

This is what's so important to make them believe what is false , so that all may be condemned who do not believe the truth but have pleasure in unrighteousness . So why do I bring that up ? Because this is the same thing that happens in a marriage . When we refuse to bring Christ into our life , we put on a false image .

We start to get so selfish , so self-centered , and I look at my spouse not as one that I'm supposed to be pouring myself into , as Christ did on the cross , but one that I'm taking , I'm grasping . It is as if Christ was grasping us on the cross to try to suck our life out of us , to bring his life back in right , to restore himself .

But that's not what he did . He poured himself out , and so he initiates this gift to his bride , to all of us , pouring himself out . All we have to do , linda , is really get down on our knees and say yes to this , pour yourself into me , ask , seek , knock . And again I bring up this little thing that you said we sense this , we want the truth .

Well , who senses it ? And why do people not sense it ? I think that St Paul says it here because when you walk away from God , when you walk away from the truth , when you walk away from that love story , you lose something there , and God allows you to lose it .

You know , you lose your reason , you lose your willpower and you give yourself over to evil , and that's what we're seeing today .

But is it true that the answer then is just to go ahead and change yourself , which cannot be done , you see . And so there's a delusion that creeps in because of that spiritual blindness , maybe never taking the initial thought of well , there is some truth here , and saying does the process go all the way to the end of truth ?

And without that awareness or that lack of that spiritual blindness , you can't get there . So I think some of the folks you're talking to , you know , are stuck in that blindness and the delusion and will want to grasp onto that little piece of what may be true , but never go all the way to the logical end of it .

And so when we pull this back to our marriages and you look at your spouse , what is the truth ? The truth is that I am to be a gift to her and as a man , I think this is so important . You know , when I found this out as a man , when John Paul said you know , why do we call God father ? Why do we call Jesus the bridegroom ?

Because he initiates the gift of love . And I realized , walking into my house from work , I was waiting sometimes for my wife to run up to me and say , hey , great , I'm so glad you're home . You know , blah , blah , blah , go say hi to the kids or whatever Kind of invite me into my own house , you know .

And when that didn't happen , I felt like down , like nobody really cares if I came home or didn't come home , or whatever . Yeah . And when I realized , no , I have to initiate the gift , I have to go over . It's not about her trying to soothe me .

Yeah , I had a rough day at the well , she had a rough day too , and and so so at the end of the day , instead of trying to see how little we can give to each other , I realized it's the opposite . How much can I pour into her Right ?

And I and I got in the habit of trying to say and I and I'm pretty successful at it through all these years , as many years ago now something kind , every day , something nice . I mean , I I'll find something , you know .

Hey , you know you're here , I re , I love the way you put your hair up in a bun like that or whatever it is , and these little things , and that's that's my job , you know to do that and it breaks , it refocuses this whole thing , and if she's distracted , I don't get mad about that anymore .

You know and here's the last thing I'll just say to this because you have to move yourself out of the way . The more you can move yourself out of the way and let Christ come in , the much better off you're going to be .

Allow the bridegroom to initiate the gift to fill you and then walk back into the story and see if you are not different and if it doesn't change your relationships and doesn't change the world in some way .

But he says it expresses itself in the reciprocal relationship of , of course , the wife loving back . But the pope brings out and this caught me because I , I am the wife , not the husband that the perspective that saint paul is giving from the husband's side , that you know the husband's side , that you know the husband is to love his wife as he loves himself .

And he goes on to say that what follows , the husband is above all the one who loves and the wife , by contrast , is the one who is loved as wife . Jack , that strikes me because of course it's not saying well , the wife doesn't love , right ? That would be absurd . It's a reciprocal relation , but , as you said , you be the initiator .

The husband is the one who loves and the wife , in that reciprocity , is the one who is loved . And I have to quote him , I have to read here from paragraph six , because I've got like five stars in my margin here Okay , good .

It says one might even venture the idea that the wife's submission in quotation marks to the husband , understood in the context of the whole of Ephesians 5 , 22 to 23 , means above all the experiencing of love . So I recall from class with Christopher West that kind of the way it was stated . Is that my submission ?

What am I submitting myself to as wife to my husband ? I'm submitting myself to his love , to his task of loving me . And I'll get a little personal here because this goes back many years . We were going through some struggles in our marriage , ordinary things that every marriage goes through .

But I know that my husband got very frustrated at one point and he just said to me why won't you let me love ?

And theology of the body helped me a great deal . But this kind of put it all together for me that my job is to accept that love , because his job is to be the initiator . If I don't accept it , or he perceives that I'm not accepting it , then I'm stifling what he's supposed to be doing and our level of frustration , you know , goes off the charts .

So again , if women understand that idea , then this terminology , this verbiage that St Paul uses about submitting , becomes an absolute beautiful task presented to us and in order to accomplish that , linda , over time .

I remember when I came back into the church , I knew something was stopping me from a deeper relationship with Christ and I would start to pray to our Blessed Mother almost by . It was just natural .

You know , just to start to pray to our Blessed Mother , just to open a small crack in my heart to allow me to be open to Christ coming in , I knew that there was something within me that was stopping right . It's not Christ that's holding back , so it's got to be me . So what am I doing wrong ? I prayed for that .

So I know what you're saying from a man's standpoint , because I get filled . I know what you're saying from a man's standpoint because I get filled . In other words , how do I just initiate a gift over and over again ?

Well , it's because I've gone to the bridegroom himself , because I'm the bride now in this relationship , a sacramental relationship , and I have to humble myself in a way and not to hold back , to humble myself and just allow myself to be loved . This is what I give back then to Christ and in receiving that , I give it back to him .

Then , when I walk in the door and initiate the gift with my wife , if she allows me to love her right and you can sense this it's already returning that love . Then , because you accepted it , you receive again in a giving manner . I gave in a receiving manner . So it's not a one-way street . This is a very much a reciprocal action .

So it's an initiation , but it's a receiving and giving back at the same time . So there's a flow that happens here , right's , it's not like just I give to you , you give . You know , it's not some kind of calculated thing , it's a flow .

I give to you and you give to me true love , Right , Right , and so we've known this , but so much of it has been lost , I think , in our modern culture of Christ pouring out his love and just turn that a little bit , If I'm there and he's pouring out his love and I'm rejecting it , you know not your will , but my will I can see Christ in that outpouring

saying to me why won't you let me love you In that rejection ? You see , that's what we're doing If caught up in that spiritual .

This is the the , the , what we're facing here , right , when , when , when an anti-creation right say it's an anti-creation .

Well , no , I'm going to reject that and I'm going to say this is what it looks like , you see , and our sexuality is one man , one woman , becoming one flesh . And no , we're going to reject that too and create other ways , you see . So it's like variations of just one theme , right ?

As we're recording this , we recorded the day before On Monday of this week , we had Charles Luanga it was the memorial for him and 23 other young men who were burned , who were burned or martyrs from Africa , and they were on the court of Mwanga .

His name is I'm just going off the top of my head from this , but he was a warlord in Africa and they were on his court serving on his court .

Well , he sodomized young men that were on the court and when they became Christian , they no longer allowed this right , they no longer wanted to have any , they never wanted anything to do with it , but now they stood up for themselves .

They never wanted anything to do with it , but now they stood up for themselves and he was so furious that he told them that either they give in to his sexual advances , sodomy right , and so this is how far back this goes , you know . And they wouldn't do it , and they were burned alive . I mean , this shows you the lust and the selfishness .

And they were burned alive . I mean , this shows you the lust and the selfishness . This is why someone like a Father James Martin , who's a Jesuit , goes around the country promoting sodomy and homosexuality and stuff , and you just go . It's so disgusting , and you could see that even within the church itself that we have these issues .

And so it's very important for us to be talking about these things , linda , so that we all have confidence to stand up and , like Bishop Sheen would say , it's going to be up to the laity to stand up and make sure our he said this , this is his statement who's going to save our church ?

It's not our bishops , it's not our priests and it's not the religious . It's up to you , the people you have the minds , the eyes and the ears , to save the church . Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests , your bishops act like bishops and the religious act like religious .

And so it's very important that we understand what Christ taught and what we're unpacking today , not only for a practical standpoint , so that our marriages and our families can become untwisted and undistorted and become healthy and whole again when so much dysfunction is going on , but then to proclaim that out in the culture because of these trans ideologies and all

these things . Well , why should we care ? Because children are getting hurt because young people are getting hurt . You know , look at if an adult gets so crazy that they really think that they can become an opposite sex . You know I feel bad for them , but there's sometimes you can't do anything for them , right ?

You know you can be their friend , walk with them , talk to them , try to bring them into the church , try to let them be healed , right . I mean , these are complex issues . You's a mental illness at the end of the day .

But I feel bad for the kids elementary school kids that are picking up with these ideologies and twisting and distortion to the point where it's the impossible . We've lost ourselves so far that now we've twisted it to the point where it's impossible to really happen , but yet we're still giving kids puberty blockers and mutilating their bodies .

And it's just , you almost have to hold your head and just go . You know somebody has to stand up and speak the truth to protect these kids .

It's because we are the church , we are Christ's body and we then have to be the ones to live in that truth .

You know , I think that if you see a family so here in the TLM church that we're attending , there are many young families , many having large families , and mass is pretty noisy there's many little ones , and yet they are , they're living their lives . Accepting the understanding of this is what this is how I express accepting what Christ did for me .

We have a marriage that we're working together and we have the duty to raise these children in the faith , and they're working very hard at it , and so it's an expression of how we will save the church , and it isn't in a violent way , going after anybody who believes differently .

It's just a peaceful , loving expression of this is what Christ has done for us , and this is how we're giving back , and it's really a beautiful thing to see . And the children do need to be protected and they do need to understand this story from the very beginning , and that's what I see many young parents doing .

I wish I had had this perspective in a much clearer way when I was raising my own children , because already going back okay , so my son's 49 , so going back almost 50 years where this was all starting , but I didn't have the clarity of mind to really see it as the spiritual battle that it was , and so I , you know , wasn't able to express why we were living

the way we were living or what we believed as strongly as I wished I had . And I think we've awoken to that and know that parents need a lot of this understanding now .

For example , the Love Ed program that you have going is designed to do just that to help parents understand , because we're so far down the road in rejecting God's plan for us that we really need to wake up and get our act together , so to speak .

And so , as we understand God's plan and all that we've spoken about earlier , it gives us the opportunity to fulfill exactly what Fulton Shane says that we , as the body of Christ , need to do .

I mean , we voted for a president that said he was Catholic , that voted his first day in office to render marriage meaningless and to make abortion easier , to kill our kids , right . And so if we don't stand up against this and I know people that stopped receiving our newsletter because I stood up against that , but if you don't , you see the corruption .

It doesn't stop , linda , it just continues and continues . We unleash evil . The same thing in the church . If we don't stand up against people like Father James Martin and say , no , you're a priest , so act like a priest or get out .

Get out , and why your order allows you to do that shows how crippled the Jesuit order is now and I'm not saying every single Jesuit , of course , right , Actually , I know some pretty good Jesuits , but in general , their order has just come off the rails . It's really sad to see that .

St Ignatius of Loyola , who I've done many , many series of podcasts about spiritual battle and his 14 rules , and it's incredible and what an incredible man he was , you know . And he's got to be looking upstairs saying somebody needs to speak out about this stuff . And , like you said , try not to have too much vitriol .

But don't forget , linda , that this guy , like Father James Martin , is a very well-educated person .

He's doing this , he knows exactly what he's doing , and so when you stand up against someone like that , this is not like a child child and we're not children and so when you confront someone like this , you have to be ready for some you know pushback from him and you have to stand your ground because at the end of the day he's doing a lot of damage to

young people and people in the church also .

In our audience , the Pope says that , you know , this whole analogy of the spousal bond is very vast , and he says there are attributes and qualities of the moral , spiritual and supernatural order that are all being considered in this . And I think you know you gave some examples of some of the things you know with Father Martin and how .

Yes , you gave some examples of some of the things you know with Father Martin and how . Yes , specifically , you know each of us are going to feel more comfortable addressing certain elements of all the problems .

And if one thinks , you know , well , I just can't deal with that particular argument or ideology , but there is one that God is calling you to consider and to deal with and to do some pushback . You know how you're raising your own children , if you're a parent , but also the effect that you have with other parents and so on .

So I would say that each of us needs to kind of do some soul searching and say you know , how am I fighting this battle . Where can I fight it , you know , with the gifts and talents that I have and the knowledge that I have .

But this underlying , as we're going through these audiences , jack , I think , continue to tell us that we must look at , you know , with the spousal bond We've got to make that real for strengthening our own spiritual lives and then going out to fight that battle .

And he said all of the evils in the world that I see in the gulags and beyond all started in the battle of the individual human heart . And John Paul talks about that a lot . When I was praying to our Blessed Mother , I remember opening , say praying to open up a crack . How do I do that ?

Right , and John Paul brings up in this episode and I want to finish with this , this is from Romans 6 , he brings up dying and rising with Christ . So this is exactly what happened to me . I remember being on the fence , just sitting on the fence . I think so many people do that .

You know , like I don't want to be really holy , you know I don't want to be a really bad person . You know that's kind of rough too , but I don't want to be a real good person either . I want to stay with some of my sins , you know , and some of the things that I you know my habits , that I like to do , but that's not what we're called to do .

We're called to be one union with Christ . Well , how do you become one with God , who's perfect ? You have to open yourself totally to him . And St Paul calls this dying and rising with Christ . And he said do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death ?

We were buried , therefore , with him , by baptism into death , so that , as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father , we too may walk in newness of life . For if we had been united with him in a death like his , we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his .

We know that our former man was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed and we no longer be enslaved to sin . For he who has died is freed from sin . But if we have died in Christ , we believe that we also will rise with him .

I remember distinctly , linda , having this picture in my mind where I was being called to die with Christ , and I remember saying yes . And then it got painful . I remember this experience . It got painful and I just was going to walk away from this . I was in a chapel and I was just going to walk away and I heard so clearly are you walking away again ?

You've walked away so many times and this time I remember I fell back . I stretched out my arms like I was being crucified . I fell back and I felt in my mind and my heart that I fell back to him , you know , on Christ , and I felt like I died to him .

And when I came out of this I don't know how long it was , maybe not more than a minute or so I came out of this and I looked around and the blues were a little bluer and all the greens were a little greener . I realized .

I looked down for my stuff , my baggage , all these sins that I had been carrying along , and they were gone and I felt very light . I felt free for the first time since I was a little boy and I was light . I felt light on my feet even . You know , something had happened .

I knew something had happened , and so when you experience those types of freedoms this is what we're talking about here , you know . This is why you can't give in to , you give into these gender ideologies and all this stuff . Go back to what you said in the beginning . Look up at the crucified Christ and who is the truth ?

I am the way , the truth and the life . Open your heart to him . You'll be filled with the truth and then you'll be able to walk into the world and proclaim the truth , which is not your truth . It becomes your truth only because you died and took on Christ . So you become the messenger of his truth , but then you become Christ to the world .

You know , and that's something that happens , it's very special , right , and look , this is a battle that we have to fight daily .

I was just going to say that you know , and and I did have an experience once , jack , of helping a friend through some , uh , certain real serious difficulties and that Christmas she gave me a little gift and she said you are Christ to me and I was like whoa , you know , it's like she actually expressed what I was trying to be for her .

You know , and that was a great experience it doesn't happen too often that someone will really express that this is what I felt you were doing for me being Christ to me . We have to do that with our families every day , every day , daily battle , take up that cross and follow me every day . Battle , take up that cross and follow me every day .

But your experience that you described what a great way to describe a real conversion of heart , a real turning of my heart towards Christ , and that's the goal for all of us .