#461 From Trauma to Healing: With Special Guest Nancy Charles! It Is A Story You Will Want to Share With Young People This Lent!

You won't want to miss it , so buckle up and get ready for today's episode . I am excited and grateful to have Nancy Charles on the show . Nancy , welcome .

So , with the John Paul Tour Renewal Center , where I'm the director of , we focus on young people , teens , marriage , family , and I keep my eyes open for witness stories .

Nancy , you know the reality of a change of heart , transformation and the change of heart , for witness stories can act like a bridge that connects someone that's searching , someone that's hurting , and it's a bridge just to open up to the possibility that there might be someone out there that can help heal them right .

And so I experienced that in my own life with my own brother , and he was he was my little witness bridge to opening up , you know , to an incredible journey . Well , I found you and you hit an amazing journey . So I reached out . I asked you if you could share part of that story at least with us , your personal story , and you said yes .

So we're excited to have you here . So if you could just start out , tell us a little bit about yourself now we're two hour difference , so you're on the West Coast . So tell us just a little bit about where you live , what , what , what you're , where you grew up and anything else you want to tell us about the kind of just an early family .

Just give us a couple of minutes on Nancy Charles .

You know , and so did you , didn't you ?

You don't really know how much they're going to affect you later on in life or actually how they kind of shape you . And I wouldn't say that was the only indicator of what ended up leading me down the path that I went down . There's , that was one of , I would say , many things that probably contributed , but that was a big one .

It's really interesting Because my whole life I ended up telling my mom again , because around 18 years old the trauma started festering up in a way that I just could not handle it anymore and I had a major meltdown , I mean like a mental breakdown , where I finally was like I got to tell my mom about this because I had a lot of resentment towards my parents ,

to be honest , because I thought like , how come you guys never you guys knew this happened ? I remember them knowing it happened , because I remember the day that they found out and that was the whole thing .

And I had a lot of resentment towards them because I felt like , well , it never was really brought up again , we never talked about it , nothing ever happened . So I kind of grew up thinking like , well , they didn't love me , like that was something like .

I , it must have been like not that big of a deal , and if nobody thinks it's a big deal then I don't think it's a big deal either . And so I kind of just didn't . We , yeah , I tucked away , I never thought about it and it just kind of life went on .

Well then at 18 , it was crazy because I actually ended up telling my mom she was like I had a feeling one day this would come up and your mom said that , nancy .

You would just play with the toys and you would just kind of like , you know , until we tried our best . And then they said they had told them that it's really important that you don't plant false memories in her brain .

So they were really careful about how to bring it up , because as long as I was saying , I'm fine , they were , they couldn't they , they were doing the best they could with the information they had . And so it was sort of like okay , sort of kind of where that came from .

He was abused in the church and he never told anybody . And and so he was . He got into drugs later on and then and then into a gay lifestyle and he never , we never , knew why you know , and then it came out later on and you just go holy cow , how come you didn't tell us , you know ?

but there's all kinds of reasons , which I won't get into , for that , but all kinds of but anyways , my point being there's , it does cause havoc in your heart and you know he tried to .

I think I think you know you , you had said in a , in something that I heard , that you also went through some , some drug episodes and stuff and and I know with my brother I , you know I , he never really said why he he did the drugs . But you know I part of it's . I'm numbing , you know , just the numbing of your heart , you know .

Because , because I felt like I had to stay silent about that stuff and I created a real resentment towards family and , like you , talked about my parents and they will tell you that the consistent theme , I mean I was always very angry as a kid .

I'd have like anger outburst and , like you know , and nothing was ever like good enough because I just didn't , I could not allow my , I did not know I was loved . I could not feel that at all .

I just felt very alone , nicely , at all the time and like there was just this thing that was , you know , hovering over me , and there was other things as well , but I mean that was the biggest thing was just I .

I was a very angry child and I grew up into that and so I think that followed me and then the hole in my heart , which is where drugs came in , was , yeah , I mean you can't if you . I mean there was always a gaping wound in me , always I . In fact , it was so normal to live that way that I thought that was just life .

That's why I wanted eventually to end my life . Because I just thought like that's what life is , just this gaping hole of emptiness . I don't want it . I can't do this anymore . It's too painful .

You know I run into grade school kids too , unfortunately , but certainly high school kids . When we go into do a high school retreat , it's I . I could almost say that I don't know any high school retreat we did that there wasn't some classmate that committed suicide , and if it wasn't directly in that class , it was certainly the class before or after .

So so you know , we get into these dark places , don't we ? With these pains today . And I don't think the culture is doing us much , much good . Can you describe that a little bit ?

I mean , that's a dark place right when , when , you know , and I'm and I I don't know what we could do sometimes with these kids , because we're only there for a day and what we're trying to do is lead them to the light , right when .

I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist , so we're not going to pretend that we are , but we do want them to open up their heart to this , this crazy guy named Jesus Christ , you know . But at the end of the day , that's a process sometimes because there is anger , you know .

I mean , you know , if my brother was abused in the church , the last thing he's going to do is want to talk about Jesus . And and my wife just quickly grew up with an alcoholic father and he started to talk about God , the father and you had these father wounds , you know .

The thing I , I , in my experience , the I mean really God had to change my heart and there was a lot of seeds that were planted along the way that sort of set the stage for him to be able to do that , but that darkness I mean I don't know how I could have . I mean , so Look what was the exact question you asked .

You know , part of it was the abuse , but then part of it's this crazy Culture . You know , I think at the end of the day , look at , we need a lifeline , don't we ? We need a lifeline . And if we don't have a lifeline from somebody or someplace , life can get dark really fast .

And I know that I know a lot of people that get that way right , and so , yeah , so I , yeah , I'm trying to , I probably go ahead of the story here , but you need , we all do you know we come into a broken world . Sometimes they don't tell kids that . Right , it's not just your fault , nancy , you're broken , I'm broken , we're all broken .

Let's family , let's , let's heal , let's help each other heal and and you know , and let's open ourselves up to to the great healer . If we could just have these open conversations , right , you know , but somehow we all are in our silos somehow and we're trying to share .

It's like a husband and a wife that are not getting along and and they're ready to get divorced , but at the end of the day they just needed a lifeline like so they could start the conversation again , you know right , you know , yeah , I mean , well , the darkness for me was it was hopeless .

But what I will say is that that you know , when somebody's talking about you know I always I was the craziest thing because a lot of times I would tell people when I was suicidal , you know , because I was desperate , because I was scared to be alone .

In my head I felt like , imagine being in a room and there's like somebody in the room trying to kill you . Would you not scream out and tell somebody you know that's , you know it's . I think for me I can only speak to myself , but for me it was a very unsettling feeling , like I could like I didn't trust myself , like I was gonna do something .

I didn't want to do it and in which I think there's also part of what led to the . The , you know , the drug abuse and things like that was one .

It subdued my own will to be able to do something like that , but then also it kind of also played with my life in a way where it was like , well , if I died , would it be the worst thing you know , like then I could just overdose or something like I had really dark thoughts like that , like it was , you know , take away the pain .

And let me ask you this in the back of your mind , was there ever the thought , like you know , because I , you know , I'm talking to different people and they said , well , we'll take away the pain , but then you're , you know , does it take away the pain ? Am I done or is there an afterlife ? Does that come into this ?

Or are you just at a place where you just go ? Nope , I'm done , it's painful , I don't know what's gonna happen . I'm just doing this thing , you know , or whatever .

I didn't , I didn't get too deep , and it wasn't until I had like my first overdose experience that I started having a really consider okay , actually there are like things that can happen out of this and I would say , slowly but surely , the more in trouble I would get , you know , the more in danger I suppose I put myself in .

The worst things got , the more I had to be confronted with that question Of like it , what does happen after this you ?

It was I was really okay with leaving at any point because my brain couldn't . It wasn't really thinking that deeply about it , it was just . It's really simple when you're in pain , you just want it to be gone , and I would say I would actually argue that I didn't .

Actually , I would always tell people I it's not that I don't want to live , it's that I it's not that I want to die , it's that I don't know how to live . I don't know how to live . I never wanted to die , I just didn't know how to live .

You know , with these gender ideologies and all these things going on in the sexual exploitation of children , you know I'm in Illinois . You know we're like you're in California . You know we're in the belly of the beast when it comes to public schools . I mean , we're pushing these ideologies on kids .

You know , probably not much older than when you were traumatized , you know , sexually and and , and so we're pushing this on Kids and it's gonna have an effect on all of those children , isn't it , nancy ? I mean , oh yeah , you know , what do we ? What do we do into them ? Right , and and so .

So we go in , and , and you know , with the John Paul to renewal center and we'll ask , you know , people , let's talk about identity . You know , and , oh my gosh , they can get in the weeds on that . And here's to your point . You know what's the meaning of purpose of life , what is the meaning of purpose for life ? And we , we have to .

You know , human being wants an answer to those questions , nancy , and if you don't , it's not good , is it ?

We'll put them out of their misery or , if they're , if they're suffering . So , and when you compare it like , I thought all the time I was like , well , I'm suffering . If there's really like , think about it , if there really is no point to life , why wouldn't I take myself out ? If I'm just suffering , I've given it a good shot . What ?

What's the problem , you know ? I mean like other than the fact that you know people , it'll hurt a few people and you get that , but then you can kind of actually , you really selfish in your thinking . I should think this too is like , yeah , I know it'll hurt people , but if they knew how much I was suffering , they would be .

It would help them get through whatever pain they're going through , like you know . I mean like they would want that . I convinced myself in a weird way that my family would be okay eventually if they knew how much I was suffering because we , I mean we put the dog down , we put the cat down .

You know , I mean , and that's how like , that's how I thought about it , like you know , when , when you don't have God , I mean when you seriously there's , I mean that's how dark it gets , that's why I get so dark think about .

Look , you know , at one time , euthanasia was something that that people knew the word , but they certainly weren't going to do this to anybody . And now we're doing mercy killings , and and we're not just doing mercy killings for old people now we're starting to do them for young people that are confused . You know , I and you just go .

This is , this is kindness and compassion , right ? This is what we think , right ? So this is , you know , you have to . This is so important , nancy . Young people have to know their identity , don't they ? You know ? and if and if and if you , you know God , him is special . This , this is this . Your brother would know this .

This is one of the four Vatican to constitutional documents . Got him is best . Number 36 says when God has forgotten , the creature itself grows unintelligible . In essence , we don't know who we are . And when I first read that years ago , nancy , I go well , you know , I don't , I don't get that really , you know .

But now , now , because you know , now you say , yeah , these young people were never told there . See , I grew up , you know it's a cradle Catholic . I got away from the church for over 20 years but I , but I knew my identity somewhere in the back of my head was a child of God . Right , right , you mentioned this .

Right , you know , if you don't have God , and and then ? But people don't have that today and they're told , kind of compassionate , to get rid of us . And , oh my gosh , we're doing it , we're doing it , yeah .

In many ways that made sense to me because when I look backwards I was like , because I wasn't with God , everything contrary to God . I just got further and further away . Whether I was conscious of it or not , it didn't matter .

See , the thing is , we can sin without our awareness of it , in the sense of like , being fully conscious of like , what it all means and how . I mean you can let things into your life without knowing . It's kind of like you know and you open doors . I used to think this all the time .

We have Hollywood right with all the like , demonic films and stuff , and you think like well , I don't have a demon and you know what I mean . That's how you think about it when you're not Catholic . You've never been privy to like , you know all this kind of stuff , and so you're like well , thank God I never opened any of those doors .

But it turns out I was actually severely attacked when I came into the faith , overtly in many ways by those things , and so I actually did I opened a lot of doors that I had no idea had you know ? Because it's self like we don't realize . All these things are good .

So I don't want to just brush by this too fast , because you're really this is a gift that you're really expounding on right now and that's when , in essence , is this John Paul II ? You know , he's my mentor , you know , and he would say that . You know , we have free will .

We can choose good or evil , but sometimes you're right , you know , if you don't have a base of what that even means , you can choose small things at first . You know small things that are . You know , when you look back , you go , oh my gosh , you know , how did I , young guys , how did I ever look at porn or whatever ?

Well , you can be just watching stuff on television today and opening the doors , right and so anyway . So you start to let evil in in little different ways and then you start to do evil . You're not kind to your , you know , to people around you . You said you were angry as a child , you know . So you're pushing people back .

You know you're probably doing little things , but then you start to do some evil things . You know , because you're hurting people without knowing it sometimes , and then you do evil . In essence , you become evil and you can take this very far . You know , most young people I meet do not take it very far and they don't want to go very far .

But you're exactly right , they've opened the door and they don't even know the oppression they're under until until they try to stand up and move the other way . Now I want to choose to good and do some good . Ooh , that's when you're going to get attacked , right there .

But nowadays , like I remember growing up in like I remember specifically being in Mexico once and seeing like you would see like street prostitutes excuse me and things like that and that was very you know , that was very shocking to see in many ways in certain bad parts of Mexico .

But now you have things like Onlyfans and you have it's widely celebrated as a legitimate form for women to make money . And so it's like that went from being this closeted sort of shameful thing to now you're seeing it like open up and be like this mainstream thing . That is the door that was open . It's like it's like the slippery slope .

It's like we let one little thing in and then you see it expound . It's like the gay rights movement and the open loves you know in the 60s , and now we have transgenderism . We're cutting children's it's like that moved quickly .

Now we have , we don't even know what a woman is , we don't know what a man is , we don't know how to make distinctions of these things . Why ? Well , because we left God a long time ago and there are consequences to that , you know .

I mean , look at you know , just like you said , there's a lot of points . You can't just say one thing happened , yeah , it was sexual abuse for him , whatever . But there's other factors in the culture and all kinds of things . Right , yeah . And you know he said to me one time he goes , jackie goes , I would have never chosen this , you know .

So I have these attractions . And then he started to . You know , it wasn't until he was in drug rehab , nancy , that he actually acted on those attractions . In other words , he felt those as a young guy . He said probably what a predator saw in him something and actually sexually abused him . So there might have been something there .

And the reason he didn't come after me or my other brothers I'm the oldest of five and yet , yet he had never chosen it . You know he felt it but he never chose it . But then in drug rehab you know how rehab is now or therapist , I should say , not rehab so much , but therapist .

You know they just go along with your brokenness , nancy , they just go , okay . Well , if that's your attraction , let's just do this thing , and maybe that's your problem . You just need to you know , walk into a gay lifestyle and that'll make you happy . And it didn't , you know .

This isn't my understanding of the natural law , which I didn't even know there was a natural law , cause you know what ? I mean I just , wasn't raised Catholic , so I never had this terminology , this language , so . but my version of natural was if I feel it , then that must be the truth , and so my I can only discern what was real based on how I felt .

No one ever taught me that I wasn't what I felt , you know . So , yeah , I for me , when it flipped over , you know , I did have , I did , you know , I guess , my family , my parents , divorced . And at that point , when I was about 18 , going into college , that's when I came out officially because I kind of had this I don't care anymore . Attitude .

I'd get very angry at my mom because , once again , when I confuse my identity with my sexual locality or my sexual urges , I should say I , when she would say , you know , I love you , it felt more of like a condescending love , like you know what I mean Like , cause I , you know , it gets weird because we still want the same things and you see this .

Now , that's why gay love really can't work , because and I know that now because the rest of society has to sort of bend to the whims of that in the unnatural thing , For instance , I still wanted a family , I still wanted to be married , I still wanted all these things that you know kind of already doesn't align with this one desire .

And so I , I mean I had full belief one day that I would have children that were like in vitro you know what I mean Like and that to me was fine . I didn't think anything of it . But now I looked at them like wow , like that's , like it's kind of desecrating the whole , like Purpose of everything , like you know what I mean it really . That's as well .

You know , when you buy into one line , you have to buy into a million other lives to make that one .

Because of exactly what you said , nancy . It's so important if we leave them in a vacuum , right in this culture , in this , this , this depraved culture . Can you imagine these poor , innocent ?

I do a presentation called stolen innocence for parents and grandparents Just to tell them about what you're saying right now , that you cannot leave these poor children in a vacuum because the Culture will eat them up . They're , like you know , innocent lambs thrown to the wolves , aren't they ? And and so you're right , we need a barometer , don't we ?

People will say , well , do I need the ten commandments ? I said yeah , so you kind of can gauge where you're at . Otherwise , you're right , it's just feeling .

So love , love in today's culture has been reduced to a feeling , right to it , to romance , and there are feeling , and then that's further Been reduced down to an act , to a sexual act , and and then you just shake your head because you just go oh my gosh , I just I want to give that person a hug and say sit down with me , let's just have a glass of

wine or a cup of coffee and and let's just talk to this , you know right , right .

That's the other thing you see a lot of the society doing is they're changing language , they're desiring language , because if you can control language , you can control the narrative , and that's the . That's just .

It is language is actually really so what I didn't realize I had a moment in adoration after I had my coming to Jesus moment and the Lord really Sort of just like came upon me and made me under , help me understand that natural , on a way that just blew my lines here . I was at 33 years old and I'm like , how is this so simple ?

Yet I never knew this , I never understood it , and when I understood it , I it was like everything fell into place for me and it was , you know , this idea that and I'm probably not gonna say it's gracefully I know many Theologians and , like you know , philosophers have talked about it , but it's like using , like we have a nature that has a purpose and so

when you , you have so to use ourselves in the best way possible , essentially as to as to meet that purpose . So anytime you use yourselves outside of that purpose , you know , I mean like I that's actually another thing is like God , I used to think that Role sends in the rules and like all these commands were just rules .

But here's the thing it's like , and I know a lot of people think that's right . That's why people think God's a tyrant . They're like you know that's what ? Because they don't know . They're like , well , you know , you hear things like well , why can't I just do what makes me happy ? And it's like .

It's like because we don't really know what happiness is right , and so we're , we're basing it off . We have to define happiness first , and you know a lot of theologians have already done that for us , thankfully . But I mean , to use ourselves in the most correct way would be to follow the natural law . That's what we're created to do .

It's we're , you know it's . Does that make sense , you know ? Am I saying oh , yeah , for sure .

done I'm gonna jump in the shower .

Before you jump in the shower , you look down at your body , you go , you know what my body doesn't make sense without an opposite sex , without a woman , right , and , and you would do the same thing , right , so , so , so , that's a clue , but there's even more of it , you know , it's within our hearts now , right , so , so , these are , these are Multiple things

going on , right , we could see it in the clues and stuff in there , but there's also , you know , there's a piece that we find in a happiness that's in with within our hearts , you know , and so you know we have , you know , the doctors of the church or brother would be good at this , you know , like .

You know , like like Thomas Aquinas , you know , and you know he took Plato and then Aristotle , and you know he took their philosophy . They're searching for the transcendental's , what's true , what's good , what's beautiful and especially right the beauty of love . And now ? So Thomas Aquinas takes that and then he adds , he adds the divine revelation .

Right , and this is what we're talking about here , nancy , is that that you sense this , it within you , you know , like a cognitive dissonance , right psychologists would call it right and so something's not right within you .

You know we need parents and mentors , and , and , and , and people that have our goodwill and mind to say Nancy , I think this might be what you're looking for . It's not a rule per se . This is God . In other words , god doesn't kill , god doesn't lie , god doesn't steal . This is just , if you think about it like . Which one of those don't you like ?

You're right . Right , because I don't like the rules . But , lucky , tell me which one you don't like right ?

I don't know if you've ever heard that you know , and it really actually transgenderized that you transgenderism and it blew my mind when I saw this way is like my priest was like you know , imagine you were created as an axe and your , your job is to be able to chop things , you know . And so when you but then you just but you feel like a hammer .

So you start pounding away on nails , but over time you pound so much and you in your , your blade gets dull and almost ignore Existent . And then when you look at yourself in the mirror , you start to see yourself as an , as a hammer , but not real , not a real . You were like like a hammer in the sense that , like broken axe .

But you see it now you've confused yourself . You're like that's what I am . And then when you stop sitting which would be the equivalence of stopped using yourself as a hammer , you're , you start to start from back up again . You start to see yourself and you start to be like oh , I am an axe and that's what God is . It's not I mean , it's a rule .

I suppose I only like that word . It's almost like no , this is a guideline , for I'm telling you how to be happy . It's like if you , if you know you're an axe , you live like an axe and you do what acts is do you're going to be better for it's like a good parent telling us you know what I mean , it's his son or daughter , not we know it's .

It's a loving , it's the most loving thing to do . And so you know we , we were very , you know our an election so dark and from using ourselves as hammers for so long that we it's hard for us to you know . Because our desire is to do that be a hammer , you know .

You know , one of the things that always stuck in my mind , john Paul the second said at World Youth Day to young people and and this really helps me define kind of what we're getting at for our purpose , you know . And so he would say young people , you know . You know he had that beautiful way that , young people , you know , your life has meaning .

To the extent that it's given away as a gift to others . Young people , you know that your life has meaning to the extent that it's given away , to , to , to others , and of course , we can't give what we don't have . And so that's what I wanted to .

You know , find out where you filled your tank , nancy , because at the end of the day , I could just see this beauty of a glow coming out of you .

And Look at , I just if I was there with you , I'd give you a hug , because you know you got this warm look to you and it's beautiful , and you know you got that from someplace , you know , and and look at where we're all human beings . We're in this tension between , you know , healing and being redeemed , and and we're not at the heaven yet .

So we are battles , right , but we need to be there for each other , we need to share our stories , we need to love one another and the young people you know . So so I get filled , in essence , I get filled , and then I become right . So love God and love your neighbor . It's , it's the two great , you know , commandments .

If I , jesus , put them together as one great commandment . Right , and it's not brain surgery , but it's hard because we're proud . We're too proud to . Become an axe , right ? I know you're not gonna tell me what to do and then you give your life away . That's hurts , right , because I'm selfish .

You know how many selfish , narcissistic people there are around today . Be a gift to other people . No , I want to take grasp , you know , give me this . But when you do it , nancy , it's something changes . So , so , how did ? How did ? How did you get on this during what was as we ? You know , I'm cognizant of time . Yeah and I want it .

I want you to just bridge this for us . You know you're looking for healing and look at , we're on a path . You know on a path . Yeah , where did you find that spark ? Well , you know , where did you ? Where did you come out and say , Okay , something's gonna change ? And who did that for you ? Or how did that come about ?

I Actually was at the darkest place I'd ever been in my entire life and that feeling , when we talked about earlier in the episode of people who want to die I would tell people . This time I didn't tell people , but I and I wanted to die , but I was ready to do it , and people who are ready don't tell people .

So I actually had written a note to everybody my family and I was ready , I had everything kind of ready to go and I had . I was done . Life had beaten me down into a place where I was too painful . I could not go on . I was such a wreck and you know . But yeah , by the grace of God , right before I did what you know , the inevitable take took .

The end of the last walk . I had a thought that popped into my head think Thankfully , like it saved my life . I don't know if it was my guardian angels , you know . I don't know exactly to this day , but I know it was God , no matter what .

It literally made me feel like a Suffocated animal , like I felt caged now with no way out , because this out that I had , which was supposed to end the pain and my head , the only reason to kill yourself , was because the pain was too much , I couldn't deal with it .

So if I can't deal with the pain to the point where I'm gonna kill myself , you can guarantee that I can't deal with the suffocation , the suffocating feeling of thinking of like , how is it gonna get worse ? I couldn't afford it for it to get worse . That's what I could not afford , that to take that chance . And for some reason , this question was so .

It's just like it was so real to me in that moment and I I felt like I was suffocating , because it was kind of like you're drowning . You're like I'm drowning , but also my way out is no way out .

And then you know , I had that great moment of desperation , which was the best thing that ever happened to me my entire life , and I literally fell to my knees and I begged God to show Me he was real . I didn't have any idea at this point in my life that he was real .

I I assumed he was just a story or you know some weird missed school thing that we all talk about and you know . But I begged him . I said God , if you're real , please show me . You have to show me , you have to make it clear , I told him . I said I'm very stupid . I said you need to spell it out for me , like I have to know .

And I'm like please . I said I'm suffocating down here , I don't have , I don't know what to do and if you're real ? And I told him , I said you're real , I'll follow you for the rest of my life Because I was . I always knew God was the good and the devil is the bad . If these are real , I'm gonna choose the good . That's just .

It always been in my heart , always in my heart . I was a little girl . I always wanted to choose good and so , anyway , I Ended up falling asleep that night and I don't remember falling asleep . I just sort of passed out from exhaustion .

I mean , I was crying , I screamed at the top of my lungs over 30 times and it was just the ugliest night of my life , but also probably the most beautiful night of my life , because it was the night I really believe , I truly surrendered and my heart was just like I need you and If you're real , please show me that you're real . And so I did that .

I did up falling asleep and the next morning I I woke up and I found a rosary in the side drawer of my nightstand . Mind you , I didn't know I had this rosary . I know my brother gave it to me a few years prior or at some point prior , but I didn't know .

And all from that point on when I asked God for it from to show me he was real , everything from that moment on till he actually showed me was a sign . It was . So I I said I knew how to read the mat . He made it very easy for me to understand that he was speaking to me , even though I couldn't quite it's hard to explain .

I thought I was being pulled in the direction and I couldn't say no to that direction . And so it was almost like like it was almost like a mystery game and I had to like he was giving me clues and I would follow those clues and it was that's how that's .

And so , anyway , I ended up figuring out what the rosary was and I had to pray , and I pray this rosary , and it's the most peace I had ever felt my entire life . In that moment I didn't know peace like that existed first of all , and that prompted me to continue to keep praying . I was like , well , I'm certainly gonna keep doing this .

I don't know what this is , just that I wasn't convinced God was really it , but I knew I felt peace and it was such an overwhelming One piece I couldn't put it down . And I still not , this day , put it down . I prayed the rosary .

I pray the rosary every day and , you know , a few days later , after praying the rosary , I get this overwhelming urge to call a priest and so you , you're praying the rosary .

He's not gonna technically hold back and say Nancy , doesn't know exactly what , but but but in your , in your mind , did you kind of what . How did you , you for somebody ? Really say how did she start just pick up the rose ? You start praying the rosary , you know .

I found where they read it , but the reading was actually really hard for me . So I actually ended up on YouTube where they say it out loud , because I didn't know the difference . You know what a mystery was like ? I didn't . I thought at first , all four mysteries was like you had to say the whole thing , and that was the rosary .

I didn't realize that you could just say one thing until I saw the videos , I saw him broken up , and so I was like you know , and to be honest , I'm gonna be very honest I did not know how I was doing it right and I might .

I don't know if I did completely do it right , but I remember reading through on the website the different stories that were attached to them . Yeah , and I chose the sorrowful mystery and I only chose that because that's the only story I really knew . I Kind of you know that was , you know I knew about Jesus die on the cross . Doesn't everyone know that ?

That's part of like the whole point , and so I was like , well , I can go with that one to kind of remember .

But at the end of the day , the power , the power comes from that sacrifice on the cross , doesn't it ? So isn't it amazing that you started that ? You knew that story , you know as a kid we can know all kinds of beautiful stories , jesus's birth and this is Christmas , but no , the story that stuck in your mind was hey , think about that .

That's pretty , that's pretty wild . Right that I know . Sacrifice , you know .

So I was , I was saying yes to the grace as I was receiving , even though I had no idea I was receiving grace the grace to even want to pick up to figure out what the rosary was , you know , the grace to pray the rosary again and again for three days , mind you , I mean , I'm somebody who , like I , look like I belong at a pride parade at this point in

my life . I don't I'm fully like a gay person as far as I'm concerned . Like I have no reason , you know , he said , to go for one extreme to another in such a short period of time . It's quite miraculous , and so it even threw me off . It was weird that I was praying .

I knew it was weird the whole time in the sense that like this is so , not me , but I can't stop .

I get this overwhelming urge , for whatever reason , to want to talk to a priest , and that's why I'll tell me , because that is , I've just never wanted to talk to a priest in my life . I've heard the fact that I wanted to talk to a priest .

And when I , when I get goosebumps , when somebody's telling the story , that's like the Holy Spirit , that's the gosh . It's been happening for years as I'm listening to somebody and something will happen , like it's almost like goosebumps , I guess , like going up my spine , and at first I just thought , well , it's just because the story is so powerful .

But then I realized God was touching me and just say listen , listen , listen to her right now , because this is powerful . So thank you for sharing and I didn't mean to break in keep , keep , keep going .

I didn't want my brother to know , I didn't want my I didn't want anyone to know because I Just I didn't want the pressure of having to feel like I had to find God . You know , yes , all I knew is that I asked God a couple days ago .

Like , mind you , in a weird way , I still have this belief that if I don't find God at the end of this , I'm still ready to kill myself because I was the pain's still there . I just didn't know that . You know , if there was a God , I wouldn't do it and I would follow him and I would do something different , but I couldn't do life anymore without God .

So , you know , it was really , at this point , it was life or death for me . So these graces that that I'm operating with , you know , which I , like I said I wouldn't know , I wouldn't have known that they were grace at the time .

It was weird , it was I'd get overwhelmed with like these , like these like physical , sort of like ideas of seeing something that I need to see , and it led me , like I needed to go see a priest that I don't Like . I don't know where that came from , but it was powerful and it was so powerful that I needed to see someone that day .

It wasn't like this weird kind of like semi . You know , it was like life now , like call priests . So I called one right right then , and I Didn't even know what I was gonna talk to the priest about . I actually didn't . I had no idea in fact . Yeah , he'll tell you the same thing .

I mean , I called him and they said you know , the priest is busy , he'll give you a call back . He called me back in an hour and I literally told him . I said I don't know . I said I really need to talk to a priest and I really need to talk to someone today If you can make that happen . And he did and I said I don't , I'm just letting you know .

Right now I really don't know what I want , what I have to say to you . I just , but I really still need to see you . And he met with me . And so when I got there , I think I'm pretty sure I said something along the lines of like I just need to know God's real .

And I was hoping that he would tell me , like Give me a good enough reason to be to believe . And of course he affirmed that God was real . He's a priest , you know . I mean yes , but even his words weren't like convincing to me , but it wasn't . I didn't feel like it was . I'm fruitful , I was .

You know a good priest senses those things dance .

I think it's very important to to talk about ourselves in a way we don't call ourselves by our sin , you know . William the same as that . God calls us by our name , though , and so that's what I do now . But for the sake of the story I told priests at that day I said , you know , I'm gay . You know I don't know where I fit in all this , or if I .

If I do , you know , but I don't know why I'm here . I just needed to talk to you and I and I was called . I just you know , and kind of fumbled my way through it . We talked for a little while and at the end he we basically talked about .

He was like why don't you know catechisms classes have already started , but I would be happy to go through private catechesis with you if you'd be interested in that . And I was like I have no idea what you're talking about . Like , what is that ? Sounds like another language . He explained it to me .

He's like well , it's where we talk about the faith , we can explain to you what we believe . And I was like you know , I was really hesitant still , because I was like I don't know , like what I don't want to have to , like be forced into converting and something I don't want to , and but I'm open , I want to know about what you're talking about .

I just don't what if I'm not convinced ? By the end of it , like I don't want to waste your time either . And he was just not worried about all that , he was just like , if you're interested , like let's see what happens , right .

So I was like okay , and so I left him that day and I thought that was really interesting and I was happy I wouldn't talk to him and I just go back and I keep praying my rosary . I just kept praying . I don't know why . That was the only thing holding me Under life at that point . It was literally the only thing was the rosary , was it , was it .

I couldn't understand it , I couldn't explain it . I had no understanding what , the real depths of the rosary or what , what weapon I actually had in my hands , what spiritual weapon I had in my hand . I couldn't have .

But you know , I still , even in my ignorance , I , I couldn't put it down and I I knew very well it was my lifeline , because it was the only thing that made me feel so my same .

And so I kept doing that while I figured , you know , while I'm on this journey to figure out what , who god is , if he's real , and then a couple days later , after meeting with the priest , I get this other urge to go see a mass Out of nowhere . Just like this random urge is like pushing again . It's almost like this magic .

I feel like it was , like I could be wrong , but I feel like it was my guardian angel , just like shoving me in the back and just like , okay , it's time to go . Like we got things . We got , you got to . You know , be somewhere else . And you got you know , and so I wouldn't have seen it that way at the time .

You know , this that's pretty wild , that's pretty cool .

You know , I was there just to fulfill like an obligation very different reasons , you know and so this time it's like no , there's something there and you know , I felt called to go and so I look up the same Parish which is my Latin mass parish and second and California , and so I ended up Going to the church .

It was the first service of the day it was , it was 7 am Mass and , mind you , I'm not gonna lie , I was terrified to go .

I was absolutely terrified because you have to remember to when you live in the gay lifestyle for for 15 , you know , plus years , you're also indoctrinated to a community of people who have it all wrong , and what I mean by that is like there for our Perceptions of like Christians .

Even though I was raised Christian , I had many perceptions that impacted me over the years , like they hate us , they don't like us . You know they . They're gonna . No , I'm gonna stick out like a sore thumb . They're gonna know I don't belong there . They're gonna reject me and I and then I'm gonna feel stupid because I how could I ?

Once again , it's gonna beat down on that one wound that I already have . I'm not good enough for God to love me . Yeah , and if they see that they're there , the if God is real , they're the real people . You know , they're God's people . I'm not and they're gonna know that they reject me , then I'm gonna , I'm gonna believe again .

God rejects me and and that was really the , the fear I couldn't afford being rejected again , not by him , you know , I mean .

Second word for love is mercy . That's what you see on the cross love and mercy , huh .

And so , yeah , how beautiful is that , you know , and I'll just back my brother , danny , as he was dying , you , he had AIDS and as , not on the very last minute he was dying , but he had come back into the church , you know , looking for meaning , purpose and and Same same types of things , you know . I mean , are they gonna accept me , is it ?

Well , no , blah , blah , blah , blah . Right , it's yeah . Yeah , he will , yeah , he will Right .

I'm just picturing in my mind and God wants you there , yeah .

Yeah , I'm just walking to church that I'm feeling pulled to , and so I . I get to this parking lot and all the sudden , like I'm , I have the biggest spiritual pack in my life , which I wouldn't recognize as a spiritual tax . I didn't know anything about all of this stuff then , but the spiritual pack was just like . It was like my whole life .

It was like the way I would see it now and describe it now . It was like you know , I for the world , my whole life . But once again , with kind , what we talked about earlier , even though I didn't realize I was working for the opposite team , I was , you know , even though I was ignorant of it , I still had , I had no order .

I was working like you're not working for God , you're working for the devil , whether you consent to it or not , or whether you're aware of your consenting , and so you know he's not happy about that . I'm getting close to the sacrifice of the mass .

You don't belong here , you know You're not supposed to be here . And then this other , you know this other voice that was like no , keep walking , keep walking , come in , you know . And so I followed that voice .

That voice is stronger than the negative one for some reason , and I kept one foot in front of another and I just kept walking and I finally made to the prayer of store . And , mind you , I want to really reiterate for the viewers , because I don't think they can see me right now , but it's this idea that I look , you're like your typical butch lesbian .

I'm gonna be really honest because you know it's important , because what you know , what , if people like me walk in the church , I don't know , I already didn't feel like I fit in , but , mind you , win the Latin mass parish , everyone's very Orthodox . You have your the veils . It's like a whole different , it's like a whole different world .

And so I walk into this parish and I'm very I mean , I stick out like a sore thumb just by how I look , no matter what , like right off the bat . I'm horribly embarrassed and I you know it's absolutely beautiful and I it's weird because I can see the beauty all the sudden .

I know I can see the beauty in it was and I just didn't feel like I was supposed to be part of that . I thought I was ruining . I felt like me walking in there was staining when I was witnessing and I didn't feel like I belonged in that and but I came in anyways , like I had this calling and I was like , just sit down , sit down .

So I ended up finding a place in the very back of the parish . Maybe it's packed . There's the every seats full , all the pews are full , but there's this little seat right next to the door , essentially on the very back , which is great for me because I wanted an escape route . If I needed it , I was ready to run , you know , down and sit in that seat .

I don't really understand what that means or anything about the Eucharist , but that was the candles that was lit and so I'm looking at this candle and , whatever reason , the only thing that can be sat At all , because I was in still so much fear that the only thing that kept me in my seat Was I just kept tearing over and over in my head Not auditory , it's

really , I just want to make that clear . It's in my head . It's these thoughts . It's like keep looking at me , keep looking at me , and that was the candle , and I didn't look anywhere but that candle . I couldn't look away .

I was like the fear was so overwhelming and I just kept looking at this candle and it was just like keep looking at me , keep looking at me , and that was the candle . And I kept looking at the candle and all of a sudden the organ starts playing and it was game over . I changed instantly . I don't know how to explain .

I literally Fell apart everything in my body because it , when it felt like in that moment it was like all of a sudden I was being , I had never felt a love so intense , so encompassing , so it was breathtaking it changed the instantly that like I was like , oh my gosh , I don't even know what love is like . At first , I had no words .

I was a blubbering mess , like people had to . Like people were looking around , like Are you okay ? Like I could not hold together . I was absolutely bawling in my eyes out , like I , even if I wanted to like you know people who are crying a lot that they can kind of like hide it a little bit I couldn't hide it . I was really trying to , I couldn't .

It was so overwhelming . It was the most overwhelming thing I'd ever felt in my life . It was like instantly , instantly . He had to show me . He was there , instantly . It was the most powerful experience in my life .

Really , this , is the wedding feast like you know , do you know the picture of the divine mercy right from sister fosthena , jesus I trust it on my wall .

So you see the white and the red coming right , yeah , so now the white is baptism and also reconciliation , right , confession , right , and so this is the nuptial bath , this is getting Nancy and jack wedding ready for a wedding and then , and then we get washed , and then we step in and we receive .

The red is the , is the Eucharist , you know , the body and blood of of christ , and so he makes love to us . We become one flesh with god , right , this is a real union , and and and people Miss it , they don't get it , you know , and you , you think about the gift . You know , if you were never broken , if none of us were ever broken , we would never .

You know , like adam and even the garden , before sin , they still , you know , were tempted because they didn't know how powerful that was . So you and I and millions and millions of others know something powerful I was broken and .

I'm starting to heal , but in my healing by love , I'm healed by love and , like you said , beauty and the beauty of the , of the mass , but the beauty of the masses like a small beauty leading you into big beauty , right To God himself .

And look , I don't want to put words in your mouth , I just get excited because I know what you're describing and and it's , it's , it's like you just know , you know .

I love , love , love and all this stuff and it's like no , no . Instantly I knew I had no idea what love was , because when I felt that love and I never , ever felt anything like that in my life not from . I couldn't feel it , I was incapable of giving it , I was incapable of receiving it . I didn't have . I've never felt that in my life .

It was , and it was not just like a slight , like you know , trying a new , you know cookie , for that you never taste or anything like that Over . It literally was like my whole body fell into alignment to what this was , whatever . This was my I knew I was made for it .

I knew I was made for that because I was the most I felt whole and before I even knew the teachings of the Catholic Church , I hadn't started cacus yet . In fact , I ended up starting that the very next week . After this experience I was like , OK , I mean , my priest actually told me something funny .

He was so weird , you never pushed back against any of the teachings . And he's like , usually we get a little bit more pushback against teachings or not understanding , because what he didn't know at the time is I , he didn't . I already accepted the teachings .

I accept it all because if I didn't understand a teaching of the church , I recognized that I was the broken one , and if I didn't understand it , it was not that God was not , it was that I . He will help me understand , I think . I think I just didn't know he existed and he showed me my question and ever since then , my whole life , it's been .

I came in September , 29th Feast Day of San Michael . That was my confirmation day , my conversation with what year .

I still would always say , well , I'm a good person . You should ask my brother . It's hilarious . He'll be like , are you ?

It was like , oh gosh , I can just accept what I am and know that this is what , this is who I am without him , and I don't ever have to be like that anymore , like I don't , like I somebody saved me from that Like I don't know , there's something to me . It was , it was profoundly . I was okay with that .

I was like , yeah , I am , I am broken and this is who I am . These are the things I'm capable of doing without our Lord . Yeah , thank God for him . You know what I mean , because he provided a way and I'm going to follow that .

You know , even though I understand it yet , I'm going to follow that He'll make me understand what I need to understand , what I need to understand it , and I believe that , as long as I stay close to him , Nancy , that was one of the most breathtaking outstanding .

I kept you a lot longer than I said it was going to and it was well worth it . So thank you for your time . I really appreciate your time . You know you have a brother there that came into the church ahead of you , so you have somebody to share with . I bet you and you know .

Let me just say this with look , we're already over time , so let me just say this . Yeah , of course I bet you it's fun for your brother . You know why ? Because , as a brother so I'm the oldest of five my other brothers , we all left the church during the sexual revolution and all this kind of thing .

So I was brought back by my brother , danny , but the other guys didn't come right away and it took a while , you know , and always praying , praying , praying . Well , the brother that's closest in age to me is only 11 months younger than me . He was away from the church until about a year and a half ago and his wife died of cancer .

I'll just tell you this real quick . He couldn't go to sleep and his anxiety and his grief was so bad and guess what ? He found the rosary . He found the rosary and then he came into the mass . You know , look at , we all have our own stories . But he found that rosary first and he gave him that piece that you described .

And then we were always close , we were close in age , we grew up as friends . But there's what , when one person has that depth of encounter like you're describing , the other one doesn't . There's a separation there . But when the other person found it , I mean it's amazing .

Now , when we're telling stories , we're talking about God all the time , and I never did that with him before . You know what I mean . Like you don't feel comfortable , like you know , I keep talking about God to somebody who doesn't want to hear me . Well , now he's bringing it up and saying , hey , you know I'm not going to do that .

And saying , hey , thank you for the piece , thank you for the piece . You know , thank you that to our precious blessed mother . He calls her now . You know that she brought me this piece so I can go to sleep again and reduce this grief . And so the story you're telling is just so beautiful , so powerful , that again I was getting back to your brother .

I bet he's excited to have you as someone that can share this journey now , because we need to share the journey together Right .

Our relationship is just tremendously grown in a way that I just could never imagine possible . Like , honestly , it's the greatest gift ever . And he , yeah , he often pinches himself because he loves to say who are you ? What have you done with my sister ?

Now it's not like you know , but there was an obvious change that was undeniable and it's really actually in many ways healed my relationship with my family and we were very broken and so , yeah , if that hopefully can bring some hope to people , because it's you know , if somebody , if God , could save me , I'm telling you , don't worry .

Just pray , just be a good Catholic . Don't worry , god has got it . We have no idea he's the perfect author . We have no idea what he's doing , what he's up to , but it's going to be okay . Like you , just kind of stay faithful . You know , I really believe that .

Look at you , know , I'm not going to . You know , just plan any seeds for fun here . But on the other hand , if people do want to know more or read more , have you ever written an article about this or no ? Or would you just say , hey look , I just told you the story . That's enough for every story ?

It takes away time from him and really I came into the church so I could be closer to him and so if he wants me to write a book , I know he'll let me know that . You know what I mean , I don't worry about that .

You said in the beginning , god , you're going to have to hit me on the head , right , and then he pours the wisdom into you and you start expounding and telling these things and look at the wisdom coming out of you is amazing . You know , john , at St John of the Cross and and he was dear to John Paul II he wrote his doctoral thesis on on St John .

But anyway , st John is saying where do you get wisdom from ? And he said love , you have to be a person of love . And then you have to be in silence , you have to be in prayer , right , so this is the rosary and the sacrament , and just listening to God .

And then he said you have to , you know , go through some mortifications , and mortifications are like fasting or whatever , right , so so we have to detach , and that's what you do when you're on drugs , when you're on , when you're sexually active , and and you know , and you shouldn't be .

You know blah blah , and so you have to detach from this world in a way . Right and so . So you're right If you start writing a book right now , you know it's , you know God is . This is the honeymoon and he wants to take his bride on vacation for a while first .

But he's taking the on vacation and he says we'll get to all that work later on , you know .

And I can only express my appreciation for for sharing your story . So God bless you , nancy . Thank you so much .