Welcome to the Become who you Are podcast , the production of the John Paul Tour Renewal Center . I'm Jack Rigert , your host . I'm glad you're with me . I am excited to have Aurelio Porfereon the show today . Aurelio is a composer , conductor , writer and educator . His music is published in Italy , france , the United States , china and Germany .
He's published more than 60 books . I have one that he published on the Catholic Mass with Bishop Athanasius Schneider , of which has now been translated in several languages , very , very good . But today Aurelio will be talking about a book that he assesses on as an editor with Cardinal Zen .
Cardinal Zen , you probably know he's what an incredible life that he's led . Cardinal Zen's Lenten Meditations just in time for Lent . Highly recommend this book . So buckle up and get ready for today's episode . I'm so excited and grateful to be here with Aurelio Porfere . Aurelio is a composer very accomplished composer , I might add , conductor , writer , educator .
His music is published in Italy , france , the United States , china and Germany . He's published more than 60 books . I have one here . I didn't get too long ago , I didn't finish yet , but I want to touch with him with Bishop Athanasius Schneider on the Catholic Mass .
It's so beautiful , it's been translated in several languages and today we want to focus on a new book coming out , cardinal Zen's Lenten Meditations . He was also the editor on that , so welcome , aurelio . Good to have you , aurelio Porfere .
Thank you for having me .
Yes , and I know that you're in Hong Kong now right .
Aurelio .
Porfere , yes , and for me it's six o'clock in the morning and for you it's eight o'clock at night . So , aurelio Porfere , yeah , so welcome , Welcome , well , let me ask you this how long have you been here in Hong Kong now ?
Now I've been in Hong Kong for around nine to ten months . Yes , I am doing several things and collaborating with Cardinal for his books , but also I am enjoying studying about Chinese culture . So I am studying Chinese language and I'm studying Chinese painting and I'm studying the Gu Zhang .
Maybe some of your listeners don't know what it is , but the Gu Zhang is a very beautiful Chinese musical instrument . So I'm doing several things because I really love Chinese culture and Chinese people . I think it's a really great culture and deserve to be known .
Thank you for that . How did you come to know Cardinal Zen ?
Did you meet him in ?
Hong Kong .
No , no , indeed , I met him many years ago , maybe twenty years ago . I will make it short , but in any case , at the time I was one of the organists of St Peter Basilica in Rome and the pastor of St Peter Basilica , because maybe the people may not know , but St Peter Basilica is also a pastor because he's also a parish church .
He knows about my family connection with Hong Kong and he said , oh , do you know that the Bishop of Hong Kong is now here in our house ? And I said , oh , that's good , I would like to meet him .
And so the bishop was Cardinal Zen now not Cardinal at the time , it was Bishop Zen and so he set an appointment and I met to him , and it was really enjoyable from the beginning , because something that for me was very surprising is that Cardinal Zen speaks Italian perfectly .
He is one of the very few Chinese people that I know that speak Italian almost with no accent .
Isn't that something ?
He speaks like me , so because of his story , that , if you want , I can tell you something about that , but he speaks Italian so good and I was very surprised I mean , it is really something that you don't expect with the person that , like me , I speak English but everyone can hear that I'm Italian because I have an accent , but he has no accent .
So that was .
Isn't that wonderful . Now , where were you born ? What city ? Rome , in Rome . Okay , yes , so that's your home . Rome is your original home .
Yes , not far from the Vatican also .
Cardinal Zen , how did he learn you were going to say maybe let's talk about just for a minute or two on how he learned the language so well .
Yeah , Okay , Because of his history . So when Cardinal Zen was a very young child , maybe 13 or 14 , the mother bring him to the Salishan in Shanghai . That is his native city . And he brings the young Joseph to the Salishan because he wants him to study with them with the perspective of becoming a priest .
And the Salishan in Shanghai were of many countries but there were many Italians there that run the house . So they teach him Italian since the very young age . So he learned Italian from when he was a very young adolescent . So he learned it so well that now he can speak so well Italian . And also his time with the Salishan is in Shanghai .
It's a time he always remembers because he learned so much and he was so impressed by the very good priest that he met in that occasion .
Isn't that beautiful ? So even as a young boy , Cardinal Zen wanted to be a priest .
Yes , most is the father , because the father of Cardinal Zen won't himself to be a priest , but he was advised that it was better to marry for him , and so the father really wished for the son to become a priest .
And so of course the Cardinal has a vocation , but I'm sure also the father an influence , because the father bring Cardinal Zen , the young Cardinal Zen , to five masses every Sunday , five masses , so he really was a very pious man .
That's , that's unbelievable . Huh , unbelievable Did Cardinal Zendis . He have siblings , brothers or sisters .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , yes , brother and sister , they , they , some of them , mary , that he was the Holy .
Priest . Okay , well , you know before , right before we go on to the book , we might as well finish a little on Cardinal Zend . How old is he now ? He's in his 90s . Now January 13 , january 13th he will be 92 is this health pretty good .
Yes , yes , some kind of issues , because you know that one year ago when Benedict 16 passed away , he visit Rome to participate in the funeral mass of Benedict 16 and at that time he was not very in good health and he has some problem in the following month . But I have to say now he's in quite good health , he start to work again and , yes , he's also .
I am a very good spirit .
Good , well , let's talk about his book and I'll put all the links in the show notes here so people can get that book . I tell us a little bit about so Cardinal Zend's Lenten meditations it's perfect timing right now will be coming up soon into Lent , so tell us a little bit about the the book and how you came to edit it .
So we have to say first that this book follow another book that was already released , that is about the advent and Christmas Meditations . That that was a and so this book follow the same format .
So Mmm the cardinal has published many years ago in Chinese several books of his homilies , the three year cycle homilies , so that there was , there were all the homilies that he gave to for the people here in Hong Kong and where in Chinese .
Okay so these are for anybody that missed that . So these , these are homilies that that he gave , and so the new book . The new book is also a series of homilies , no no , no , the new books .
Basically , I take this text and I arrange the text around certain teams . This , this work I did , was reviewed by the cardinal that make corrections and say things that he likes or the like . So he review and approve the final version of the book .
Okay , very good , give us an idea of some of the themes that are will be in the book .
Yes , I think what is very important in this book is basically that give a side of Cardinal Zen that is maybe different from what the people usually hear about him , because we don't , we don't have to forget the Cardinal Zen , first , is a spiritual man .
He's a man of God is All its other actions are coming from his being a man of God , a priest , a bishop , of Someone that put God at the center of his life . So I want to be this books , but that the people can see the , the the spiritual side of cardinal zen . That , I think , is the most important part of what Cardinal Zen is .
So in the book there are several themes , there are several meditations around the liturgical themes or around the certain important character of the length season . That is always this Call for us to repent . I think this is also very important . In the book , cardinal remind us that is very important for us to repent , to return to God . That is our true home .
So I think it is very important for people to read this book , to have also , we may say , a Chinese perspective , okay , on this very important season . And of course , the title of the book is about length , but there are also meditations about Easter is length and Easter .
So I think it's very important because Maybe people don't know but the cardinal is a true lover of Catholic liturgy . He really enjoyed Catholic liturgy . He enjoyed Gregorian chant , so I think that the people will . Really I like to see also the side of the cardinal .
That is a side maybe people don't pay much attention because of other issues , but I think it's the most important side of Cardinal Zen .
Oh , that's beautiful because , yeah , I think you know most people . I think you know good Catholics in the United States . We've heard of Cardinal Zen . We've probably read some articles about him , but we don't really know his heart like that .
So I think that's important , so the theme you know , when we start to look out in the world , really today , I mean , we see a lot of evil , you know , all over the world . So this idea of returning to God , repenting , does he have a ? Do you have some space in there , I would imagine , for prayer liturgy ?
prayer Of course , of course .
You know , this is something that I'm talking about a lot myself is , you know , we have these anxious hearts today . You know , we feel , I think we feel the pressure of evil around sin and evil . So what you said , the steam of repentance .
You know , when we think of repentance , sometimes I think we think about just our head down and just wallowing in , you know , in this kind of a low point in our lives . But in reality , in reality , sin is something . If we release this , if we repent and we release it , we free ourselves , we free our inner life . John Paul speaks about this too .
We free ourselves , you know , from this liberation from sin . He said the number one , john Paul , and I'm going to ask you about this from your perspective with Cardinal Zen . He would say the number one liberation that human beings need is liberation from sin .
And then , once we move this weight outside right to offer this up with Jesus to you know , and offer this oblation of Jesus at the mass and to be there and to be taken up into the liturgy , our soul starts to move up . It's so beautiful , huh . We become free . We start to feel this weight come out from inside of us and on our shoulders .
The evil is still around us , but then we don't participate in evil , we bring good into the world , huh , and so the liturgy and prayer . It's so beautiful . So I know I said a lot there , but talk to us a little bit about your perspective with Cardinal Zen , with those things .
Yes , so my perspective . I want to quote here an Italian actor that was not really Catholic , that was called Carmelo Bene . He said that the true revolution is the one against ourselves . So , it's the one that we make , winning all the demons that take us far away from where we should be , so that there would be God .
So I think that what Cardinal Zen is suggesting is book , and I want to connect this with the other book you mentioned before , the one I did with Bishop Schneider about the Catholic mass . And the important thing is that we , to put God at the center of our lives , we have to return .
If everything is going around , that If we don't put God at the center of our life , we can make many speeches about the environment or many other issues , but that are not the important issues we should care for .
The thing is that we have to remember that putting God at the center of life is what also gives Western civilization is big impulse to become great , not only for our spiritual life , but for our artistic life , for philosophy , for many things .
So if we don't understand that the people don't need so much many speeches about sociology or psychology , but need to return to God , I think and return to God is indeed what Is the land theme return to God , convert and believe .
So I think this book , as the book we did on the mass , is to give basically this message we should return to God if we want to Time again ourselves .
Mmm , that's beautiful , that's , and you're exactly right . You know what , when I read Alexander , schultz and Nitsen and , of course , john Paul II , those themes come out the really , oh , constantly . You know , you know , schultz and Nitsen said that .
You know , at the end of the day , I found out that , you know , it all comes down to this battle of the individual human hearts . Huh , between good and evil . John Paul spoke about that often . He spoke about it often to young people too .
He said you know that the fiercest battle being wage is on the battlefield of the human heart , between Good and evil , between love and lust .
So he's trying to wrap you , but just I want to say that the problem is really there , because today , what was done is what is done . Is they they most evil ? Because today what they do is not .
They say , oh , we should do what is good or what is bad , but they Blur the difference between what is good and what is bad , so that we never know If what we are doing is correct or not correct . And so , if you don't know , everything is possible .
This is really the evil , because they um Send away God From the place he should be in our lives , in our society , and they blur the difference . So we don't know what is the that ? That that's discrimination between what is good and what is bad , because , of course , we are all sinners .
I'm a sinner , I don't know you , but I'm a really yeah , I'm with you , are really all .
We are brothers there .
Yeah , and I can tell you that For me , what is important is not that I know that I have my nature that sometimes Bring me to do the things , but to know when is the the line . So I have to know that I'm crossing a line so that I can go back . But if there is no line , there is no boundary .
So everything is possible , everything , and isn't really what we are living today , not only in society but unfortunately also in the church .
Yes , yes , yes . Godium asbestos talks about that . When god has forgotten the human creature , huh himself becomes lost . Right , he becomes lost . And you're exactly right . We live in this age of moral relativism and when we're finding out , you know , and and it's accelerating , isn't it a really old ?
It's accelerating this sense of Evil and that's where this comes from that we have lost . When you throw god out , when you remove god , we , you know , we we kind of stand at that tree in genesis three , the , the tree of the knowledge of good and evil . We reject god and and then we really don't know anymore .
It's , it's amazing to me as I speak to people , if they've rejected god in their life , or just apathy , you know , they just left him out . That really don't do this . They cross the line all the time , you know , on things like abortion and same-sex marriage and all those things become confusing to people when god is removed .
And I think that's such an important theme . If you want to find the truth and if you want to know good in your own heart , you have to bring god back in , don't you ?
Yes , and also I think it is important to notice that this , this kind of issue , should not only concern Catholics , but to concern everyone , because our civilization , I mean , it's Something that you , you , you have not to be catholic to be proud of what we achieve in the art , in science , in philosophy , in many , many fields of Many disciplines .
So I think that we really should understand that things that people like Cardinal Zen or the bishop slider or Cardinal Sarah or other people say , and and also late people that say those things Should be listened from everyone , because here is not just about A problem with the Catholic church , is a problem with our civilization that is in a condition that is , you
know , if talking like from a Human type of you , you say , oh , everything is lost , I mean is that we are going down and down , and down and down and he's never stopping . He's never stopped .
Yeah , yeah , and I think , I think that's true , I think it is . It won't stop unless we bring god back in . So so I I want to shift just a little bit too .
So so Cardinal Zen's book sounds , it's tremendous and something we need , and I think , I think , just to see this other side of Cardinal Zen , I hope people will , will , will go out and and buy this for lent and really take it seriously .
And the other book that that that they should buy , I would love to have them buy now I didn't read the whole thing because I I found it a little late , but I just started to read it a week ago Is the book that you did with at the Bishop Athanasius Schneider , on the Catholic mass . I'll tell you what , aurelio , this , this is a beautiful book .
I , this is so beautiful I . You know people will ask a lot . You know what's going on in the church right now .
All different things , but I think , individually , first of all , I would say individually , we have to return to God ourselves , no matter what goes on in the world , what goes on in the church , because if we don't start there , we were not going to do much good in the world .
So this book on from Cardinal Zen and Bishop Athanasius Schneider that you've helped with . Both of those books , I think , are a good way to start .
So let me ask you this , because you know Bishop Athanasius Schneider , we'll talk a little bit , maybe , about the , the book , the Catholic mass , but also what's you know , his perspective on this new I don't know if you want to go there or not fiducia , a supplicants from , you know , pope Francis , on the blessings of same-sex marriage .
Of course , you know that's a lot of things going on with that and I and people are very confused with that . Any thoughts on what's going on in the , in the church today , the situation in the church and and should should the average person or really , oh what do you think the average person that's confused with some of the signs coming out of the Vatican .
Now Should we just try to ignore that and push it aside or , you know , as good Catholics , or should we stand up ? And you know this is very tough for people , you know , because people are worried about saying something bad against the Pope . But on the other hand , we know , we know Catholic teaching , right and so what ?
What are , what do you have feelings on that ? I know they could be complex , I realize .
So of course , I speak for me and not for Cardinal Zen or Bishop Schneider . On this . I can say that you you see many kind of Position on this issue . So now you say the people that say all the pope Do this or the pope is great , or what have . So I myself , I think that we live in and I use this word that Really consciously .
So we live in a dramatic situation , a dramatic , exactly what you mentioned before , because we , of course , know what is the role of the pope in our religion . But the problem , you know that the thing that I think is really People don't get , is that they think that Pope Francis is like the Because of the origin of what we are living .
But if you study true history , you understand that this we are living is the . Is the , not the end about this , the manifestation of a very long process ? Yes , this is even 200 years old . So what we are living today is not because Pope Francis became pope , but he started .
So I always say that some people think that Pope Francis is the problem , but it is really not , not the . The truth . Pope Francis is just Certain acts of Pope Francis not not everything , but certain action are the manifestation Of what we are living now for hundreds of years . So when the people start to talk , I have to say a lot of your country .
There are people that speak of the pope in a very Disrespectful way . I really like . I really like because he is still the pope yeah , he's still the pope and as we have to respect the role , because if we start to make fun of the pope , then we are not only disrespecting Francis , but we are also this was disrespecting the papacy .
We always have to maintain the papacy in with great respect , and Of course we see things . I mean , we see things . We cannot say all these kind of things . We , for us is , are good , but we don't have to focus Pope Francis . The problem go way back , way back . And it's not even the Vatican too .
I mean , of course Vatican too is a moment of you know , of change , but but it's not the starting . Some people say oh , before Vatican to the church was not . No , is really wrong to say like that , before Vatican to we have all the Modernism . I mean modernism , I , it was a huge thing in the church , a huge movement . I use woman movement .
The same pie to the 10 , try to defeat . But he can only maybe , like he , win a battle , but certainly he didn't win the war . So all these things we should see in perspective . And , of course , you , you ask me all what is the solution for this mission ? We have now my answer . Maybe it will be upon you , but there is no solution .
I mean , I mean , we are stuck . We are stuck , we , we cannot do like people do they ? They create their own church , they're created . I mean that's not possible , but that's really not something we can do . So there is no solution . We can just be Like , suspended , we are waiting , and I don't know what you know .
We can just say , oh listen , we are going in the wrong direction . But what ? What you know ? If we want to be , remain Catholic , we cannot reject the pope . I mean , for me this is a full solution .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , no , I , I agree , I agree , I , I I'm very careful . I have to be careful myself because I can get , you know , angry at some of the things coming out of the Vatican . So what I try to do is I try to just speak the truth . We know the truth .
John Paul left us , and so did Benedict and and , of course , popes all through history of the left us , some beautiful and cyclicals , and we know the truth , we know that . You know that this beautiful , the positive faith , this positive faith has been coming down to us .
We have to get the cat mechism , we have to go and read scripture every day , we have to pray every day and we have to do what ? How ? We started this earlier , don't we ? We have to realize that this starts in my heart .
You know , when Jesus came into the world , it was an evil , a lot of evil going on then , and and of course , they crucified him , and so this battle , like you said , between good and evil has been going on for a long time . Do you think that it's going to continue to accelerate until the say you know Jesus decides to come back at some point ?
You know we , you know Jesus himself said don't try to predict the exact time , but it seems that the difference is the whole . The whole world is caught up in this . You know right , it's almost at the same time .
Undeniable that in the last decade there was in the church an acceleration Toward the certain Progressive liberal agenda . This is clear , no one can deny . Some people now start to think about the that what will be the next spoke , because there will be a time where there will be a next spoke , we don't know when .
We we honestly and sincerely wish that Pope Francis can live as much as Possible , because is the pope , we have to respect him as such . But of course we see what he is doing in certain fields that you mentioned before , filouza's upligans . So there are other things .
But the point is I don't think that that that the next pop will , whoever will be , can do so much in the situation we are living now , because it's not only about the pope but it's Like so many bishops that are like him , so many cardinals that are like him , so many priests but are like him , so many lay people that follow this kind of ideas that we know
that lead us and we lead us to destruction . So what we can do it I always say , if I get to pull from a human point of view , I would say there is no hope from a human . So we can only Trust God that he will do something , I don't know what .
Honestly I don't know , because that you may judge my own Point of view like a point of view of one that is kind of desperate .
But honestly , after having studied a lot , after having Written a lot or talk a lot about this , I have to say there is at the moment no viable solution , because all the made up solution so like how I make my own church , or I say the pope is not the pope , or I say that the pope is , was Benedict and still Benedict was still Benedict so all these for
me are Ways that people find to deal with the problem and I think I think our solution you know it was Saint Augustine that I think say that is better to link on the right way that to run on the wrong , wrong path , wrong way .
You know , we know we are , you know we don't know what to do , but still , if we want to stay because there is the question , you know that the fundamental question is the question of the truth .
The truth yes .
Yes , if we think that the church is the true church . So even if the situation is like this , we cannot just leave and say , oh , I will Create my own church with the , with the right I like , with the theology . I mean it seems Nice , but it's not working like this . We are not protestant , you know .
They split and split and they do their own own form of protestantism . We cannot do like this .
Yeah , it's not . I agree , I agree , and , and and I . The other thing I think that you said that's so important for people to understand is this didn't come just out of Vatican II either . You know , that's that . You know the post-Toc fallacy , you know be , you know . That says , you know , since event Y followed event X , then Y must have caused X .
You know it's like the rooster crows , you know , in the morning before the sun comes up , so the rooster must have have have something to do with the sun rising , you know , and it doesn't work like that . And so I know that . You know , and maybe I want to switch to the mass just for a few minutes before , you know we go .
Our time runs out because of this , because we did see what , when I read Vatican do documents , and especially something like sacrosanctum concilium , you know , on the liturgy , and when I read that , it's a beautiful document to me .
You know , I was a kid when I was young I'm older than you are really old when I was young , I , it was the Latin mass and then the novice ordeal came in and it was a big change and it really affected me as a child . I , I , I walked away from the church . After a while , a rock band you know music , rock band came in .
Everything changed and and and I thought , wow , maybe the church , to your point , maybe the church doesn't have the truth . So I have to go out into the world . I read philosophy and I traveled and I tried to find the truth . Right , it's on our heart Really .
I tried to find the truth and I came back to the church because there , you know to to this is important because at the end of the day , the church had the truth in it .
But something happened after Vatican II , to the beauty of the mass , you know , with novice ordeal and , and and I'm not a , I don't pick on the novice ordeal , I , I'm not negative all the time on novice ordeal , it is what it is out there now .
But I have friends of mine that that get me to go to the Latin mass and I'll tell you what you're you're involved in music . When you hear beautiful music again , you mentioned Gregorian chant , you know all of these things they do lift you .
Hey , there's something beautiful that happens in the mass , in the , in the traditional Latin mass , or even a novice ordeal mass that's maybe ad oriantum , you know , facing the east , with beautiful music and incense , maybe some Latin in it , kind of out of sacrosanctum concilium , closer to that document . It's really beautiful .
There is something about that and I know you know all about that from not only from your book but from the music from your work that you do . That's so beautiful . So maybe , as we start to wind down here , any any thoughts on all of that coming up as whatever's on your heart .
You know , this is of course sacred music is all my life , so I can say many things . But I just say one thing . You mentioned sacrosanctum concilium . So the people that defend a certain way to celebrate the novice ordom mass they say , oh , we are defending Vatican too .
You traditionally start people that look backwards or you are people that are rigid , or things are there , blah , blah , blah . So they say they defend Vatican too .
But when you go and read sacrosanctum concilium , when the documents speak about sacred music , say , oh , gregorian chant is the proper chant of the Roman liturgy , latin should be preserved , the organ should be played , polyphony should be incremented , the , the , the part I would say the treasury of sacred music should be implemented .
We have to form singers , organists , directors . So all of this is said by the council . So how come . We have this situation today , where choir were thrown away from the church , that pop music is played instead of the Gregorian chant . So what they defend is not really Vatican too .
Yes .
But his own version of Vatican too , that does not exist , exists only on their . This is also what Cardinal Ratzinger say in a famous book he wrote with Vittorio Messori called the Ratzinger Report in .
English oh yeah , yes .
And the problem is these people make a Vatican , too , a sort of of a sort of a mega dogma , something that they interpret in the way they want , and they make the council to say things that the council has never said . So this is really the danger . You know , these people that don't talk anymore of the council .
They talk , they say , oh , this is not the , this is the spirit of the council . But of course , if you say in the spirit , you can say everything , yes , you can yes .
So we really are dealing with these unreasonable people that unfortunately for most , in most situations , are running important diocese , important office in the church and we have to deal with this .
Yes , yes , no , that's well said , well said . So let's do this . We're going to have to unwind because it's getting late by you and I promised 35 minutes or so and we're up in that time . But I'd love to have you come back to talk about the Catholic Mass , to talk about the book with Athanasius Schneider .
I know that book came out a couple of years ago , but I'll tell you , you know it's . I'm sorry that I didn't know about it until I was getting ready to do some research on you and I saw the book , so I got it and it's just beautiful . I it's . It's everything I'm reading so far .
It's just beautiful , it's something that's needed right now and you take a very generous approach generous you know I just want to say something for your listener that a DCR will come , another book written by me , bishop Schneider , and Italian Physicologist that will focus on sacred music . That will be in a certain way a continuation of the Catholic Mass .
So if you are so kind to invite me back again , we can talk about these two things together .
Yes , that would be beautiful . When is the ? When is the new book coming out that you just mentioned ?
For what I know , it will come in the second half of this year .
Okay , good , Good , good , good . So maybe we come back and talk about the Catholic Mass with the book that you wrote already with Athanasius Schneider and then follow that up with with the when , the music , when the book on the music comes out , it would be beautiful .
Okay , it will be my pleasure and I'll tell you why because everything you said is so important to to people today to get our bearings , you know , to get our bearings , to realize I think it was so important what you said . This isn't God's hands really , you know , and it always was in God's hands . You know , we , we , we .
And it's good for us to remember this , because I think we get anxious , we get nervous . I see young people get anxious and nervous and and they look out at the world and it seems hopeless . And , of course , if it's up to human beings , it is hopeless , you know , to your point , but it's not up to human beings , it's up to . God and he has a plan .
And will it get worse before it gets better ? I think so , but , but maybe this is the only way that it wakes people up to turn back to , to God .
You know , I do know people now that are waking up and coming back , and that's why this conversation is important , because they need books like Cardinal Zenz , they need books like the one you wrote with Athanasius Schneider , because they're looking again for their roots . You know , like , like you know , what can I do , what should I do ?
And I think , when you bring the sacred in to music , to the liturgy , through good books , to prayer , through the rosary , all reading scripture , all of those things come together , huh , they all lift our spirits and we need to do this together . A really old you know what can we do ?
We can help one another find , find this path and walk together , huh , walk together toward God , and that's where we're going . Anyways , you know we're not going to be here forever . Yes , I agree with you . God bless you . Hey , thank you so much and thank you to everyone that's tuned in today .
Take a look at the links in the show notes and please buy those books .