Welcome to the Become who you Are podcast , the production of the John Paul Touring Nul Center . I'm Jack Rigard , your host . I am grateful to be with author Anthony Di Stefano , who's written so many bestselling books that it's hard to focus on just one .
But I have seven grandchildren and Lent is coming early this year , and I asked him to talk about his newest book , the Story of the First Easter Bunny , and I'll tell you what before you think it's not for you , this interview . I don't care if you're an adult or a five-year-old . It's a great story filled with awe and wonder . So you're in for a treat .
Buckle up , and I'll be right back with today's episode . I'm excited and grateful to be with Anthony Di Stefano today . Anthony is an American author , television host and activist . He's written five bestselling Christian books for adults . His first book , a Travel Guide to Heaven , was published in 18 countries .
His second book , ten Prayers God Always Says yes To , was endorsed by the National Day of Prayer Task Force . He's also written 16 bestselling books for children , including the Donkey that no One Could Ride and Little Star . He's been the host of two television series on EWTN , as well as the frequent guests on that network .
So today , though we're going to focus on his new upcoming book , the Story of the First Easter Bunny . I'll tell you before I get you on , anthony , I have seven grandchildren and I'm excited to have you on for that and to talk about this book .
I was just banned from one of our local libraries for pushing me back on the porn in the libraries and the school systems , and I'll tell you what it's so refreshing to be able to find books like the one you're writing . So welcome to the show .
Well , thank you so much for having me , and I think in this day and age it's kind of a badge of honor to be banned from libraries or from anywhere in the academic world , Obviously on the other side of the culture divide . So congratulations on that .
Well , thank you , thank you . So you're quite a prolific writer , anthony , and I'm going to circle back to one or two of your earlier books just because they sound so interesting . But let's dive into this . What brought you to write this book ? I thought Christians didn't like the Easter Bunny , because it's such a secular symbol .
We're crossing the bridge here between this local library I just mentioned and the beauty of Christianity and the beauty of our Catholic faith , and so tell me how you're bridging the gap with this book and I just mentioned again , with all my grandchildren , I'm excited to get this out for Lent .
Well , I'm excited to Thank you very much . You know well , you're absolutely right . We certainly have to be very careful about secular symbols . Generally speaking , as you know , the church Catholicism does not . It doesn't rigidly oppose the inclusion of secular symbols like the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus and holiday celebration .
Some Catholic parents even think that characters like like that can be useful to some extent because they can be used as a way to add , you know , some excitement or fun to the Holy Days , which can reinforce their deeper joyful meaning and make holidays more memorable for children . In other words , we want kids to have a positive feeling about these holidays .
We want them to associate Easter and Christmas with the happy feelings of childhood . And sometimes sometimes , if you're careful the addition of characters like Santa or the Easter Bunny can make things fun for kids .
However and this is a big however , I think anyone serious about their Christian faith would say that the extreme caution has to be used when dealing with secular symbols of any kind . First , parents can't be blind to the fact that there is an ongoing cultural war that we just mentioned .
We have to recognize that our deepest beliefs are on the constant and relentless attack from the media , the entertainment industry , the academic world .
So so you know , in order to make sure that our core religious beliefs are not marginalized or compromised , and the true meaning of the Holy Days , like Easter , has to always remain at the forefront of any kind of catechesis for children . You know Easter celebrates Christ's resurrection from the dead and the opening of the gates of heaven .
You know this is the cornerstone of the Christian faith . So parents have to be vigilant that this profound truth isn't lost amidst all the chocolate treats and the died Easter eggs .
So the bottom line , the bottom line is I think it's possible to judiciously permit some secular fun with characters like Santa and Easter Bunny , but only as a kind of spice , never as the main course , and only if parents are able to keep these characters in their proper proportion .
If they're not able to walk that line , then it's better to do without them , because we cannot afford to lose the religious significance of our Holy Days . I wrote my book because I thought there was a way to use the Easter Bunny for a deeply religious purpose .
Yeah , so let's talk about that . How did you Christianize the Easter Bunny ? And also , what age group for our audience here today ? What age are you targeting with this particular book , anthony ?
Sure , well , you know I facetiously say that I write my children's books , for you know kids who are ? You know , four to 104 . In that in that they're picture books and so they're meant to be read by little children in the three to seven range . However , I'm always very aware that these books are being read by adults to children .
They're being read by the aunts and uncles and parents and grandparents and siblings and friends , and so you know you don't want to miss out on on an opportunity to cataclyse them too , because they're reading these books sometimes over and over and over .
So all of my children's books , even though they're written to entertain children , they always have layers of meaning that will resonate , hopefully , with adults . I'm not interested in writing any kind of children's book that just appeals to a four year old , because you know I want to be able to reach as many people as possible .
So hopefully a book like this would , will be able to , you know , emotionally move people who are adults as well , and that's , I think that's the whole key to the success that I've had as a , as a children's book writer not to brag , but I'm saying that's what I'm aiming for .
So , but as to your other question about how this book Christianizes these to bunny , I think one of the ways we can make sure that we keep the emphasis on Jesus Christ in holy days like Easter , without sacrificing some of the fun and playfulness offered by characters like these to bunny , is to adopt them , quote unquote for our own purposes .
And just as we can easily teach children that there's a real Saint Nicholas behind the fake Santa Claus , we can also draw parallels between the Easter Bunny and the true meaning of Easter . It's not the same thing , of course , because Saint Nicholas really existed and Easter Bunny doesn't , but there is a parallel .
In my book , the main character is a bunny who lives during biblical times in Palestine 2000 years ago . He actually witnesses the main events of the Passion Week . He sees the Last Supper , the crucifixion and even the resurrection . So what I've done here is I've you know what ?
I just right off the bat , I got a goose bump . You know that's , that's perfect . I'm sorry to stop you there , but that's perfect setup .
Perfect . So what I've basically done is I've taken this secular fictional character and I made him into a witness of the gospel . It's not only Christian isism , but it also makes it makes it easier to teach children about what we celebrated Easter . You know , sometimes people ask me you know , why do you use fictional characters at all in your children's books ?
Why write a story about , you know , the star Bethlehem , as I did in Little Star , or a donkey that carries Jesus into Jerusalem , as I did in the book you mentioned before , the donkey that no one could ride . Why not just tell children's stories straight from the Bible ? And yes , it's great to do that .
We should be introducing kids to the Bible at a very early age . But we also shouldn't forget the fact that it's always a good idea to use animals in children's books , because children find animals lovable and adorable . They don't find them intimidating in any way . Children often find adults intimidating because adults are bigger than them . Kids are small .
The whole world is scary to them . But when you use animals as characters , you bypass that intimidation stage and kids are able to immediately enter into the story .
So so in many ways it's a lot easier to teach children about Jesus than the Gospels , if you're able to come up with animal characters that are part of the story or witnesses to the story , as the bunny is in this book .
So again , to succinctly answer your question , I've Christianized , or someone even say baptized , the Easter bunny in this book by placing him in Palestine 2000 years ago and making him a witness to the resurrection of Jesus , to the resurrection and a follower of Jesus .
You know that's beautiful . Look at kids . You know , just like you said , you know , from four to 104 . I love philosophy and philosophy always starts , anthony , with awe and wonder , and that's what you're getting at here . You know these kids have innately in them . You know they have that sense of awe and wonder for the world .
And that's what you're doing You're bringing them into . I can imagine this . You know they're bringing them into this lens , that they're starting to see the story unfold through the eyes of this bunny . I mean , it brings it right down to them . You know , I love it . I love the idea .
Yes , yes , lewis , and GK Chesiton . I , one of them , said you know , the importance of fairy tales is that it baptizes the imagination . There's a line that goes from the eyes and the ears directly to the heart , that does not go through the brain . And that means from GK . Yes , it's from Chesterton .
Yeah , that means that that you can learn things , you could know the truth , you could learn certain things Without studying and analyzing them , and we see this in music and poetry and stories .
You can , you can learn the truth about something without analyzing it , and it's very important , especially for children , to expose them to the truth through their imagination , through images . So again , that's that's , it's that's why stories , movies , music can be so powerful .
Yes , you know , I think back on the Gospels I have a presentation coming up on one of the lines I use . In there I said you know why does Jesus tell stories ? And he tells stories ? Because our life unfolds like a story . You know , we feel that , don't we ? We feel that in the heart , right away in the in the book . The bunny's mother is sick in there .
You know any significance there with telling the story like that .
Yeah , yeah .
Well , you know I wanted there to be some sort of connection between the bunny and Jesus and you know I've always had a strong devotion to our lady and because of that I immediately thought , when I was trying to conceive of this book , I Immediately thought that when Jesus was hanging on the cross , the last direct action he took was to entrust his mother to St
John . He said son , behold by mother and mother behold by son . Now , of course , there's a lot of theological Significance in that entrustment , which has to do with the church and with Mary , mary , who is the mother of the church .
But beyond that deeper significance , it's also true , on a strictly literal and personal level , that Jesus wanted to make sure that his mom would be okay after he died .
And I thought that if this bunny in the story had a sick mother , if he witnessed the crucifixion and heard with his big rabbit ears how Jesus had taken care of his own mother , that might provide him with an even more poignant reason for visiting Jesus's tomb afterwards and praying .
The line that I have in this book , the line is oh man in the tomb , please won't you be kind ? You helped your dear mother , now Won't you help mine .
In other words , the fact that the bunny has a sick mother who he loves and is trying to care for makes it easier for him to relate to Jesus , who , of course , loved his own mother , mary , better than any son could ever love a mother .
So that's the main reason I wrote the story in this way , because I think it adds a strong emotional element to the book that people can Relate to , and and I also wanted to highlight the sacred bond between mothers and their children .
I've been a strong pro-life advocate for decades , and anytime there's an opportunity for me to focus , even in a limited way , on this sacred bond , I try to take it and you're bridging the gap here again in a child's heart , with all of our hearts , between what's going on the gospel in our own life .
They're intertwined , aren't they ? Thank you , of course we know rabbits and bunnies have large ears , but but you put a special significance in that , didn't you , anthony ?
Absolutely , that's really the key of the whole book . You know , rabbits are famous for having large ears , as you said , and I thought that this fact lends itself perfectly and very powerfully To a profound teaching of the gospels , namely that the necessity of being attentive to the word of God .
There are several passages in the New Testament , very important passages , where Jesus focuses on the importance of listening . I'm thinking Matthew 11 , 15 , mark 4 , 9 , when Jesus said says he who has ears to hear , let him hear .
In Christian theology , in Catholic theology especially , the phrase having ears to hear means something very different than simply hearing words . It's about truly understanding them and internalizing their message .
I mean , remember the parable of the sour in the gospel of Mark with a seed represents God's word and it's received differently , based on the state of the soil , which represents the listeners heart .
So those who have ears to hear are those who receive the word , understand it and allow it to transform their lives and , as a result , they bear much fruit by being obedient to the word of God , not just with their prayer but with action .
So so in this book , the bunnies enormous ears are not just a physical attribute that rabbits have , but they equate to spiritual Receptivity . So the bunny's attentiveness to the words of Jesus highlights the importance of listening to and following God's will .
That's what the bunny does he follows Jesus , he has faith in Jesus , and then he even goes on to spread the good news about Jesus . So he's really a model of the way Christians are supposed to listen to God .
Yes again , you know you have a good imagination and you're touching on . You're touching on such important elements . I love the way you're doing this . I was just reading on our podcast oh well , now is a couple of months ago a book to save the rosary with your children . And that's exactly what this was .
You know , listen , listen , you guys , to the story and let this , let this , you know , bubble around in your heart a little bit , in your head a little bit , and then let's talk about . You know , what did you get out of that phrase ? What did you get out of that word ? And that's what you're doing here .
You know we're teaching those little ones to pray with this , with this book , aren't we ?
Yes , we are . And what you said just now about the rosary , I wish I could you know . I have so many Protestant friends working in the pro life movement and they just don't get the rosary . They don't get that . They know they .
They do understand the importance of reading the word of God , but they don't understand that when Catholics pray the rosary we are living in the gospel , we are living in all those mysteries of Jesus's life . It's more than just reading . It's every single day placing yourself alongside Jesus as he walks through his ministry . You know it's incredibly powerful .
I wish they got it . So , yes , I'm a big fan of instilling the importance of the rosary in children from a very early age .
You know I'm speaking , you know , a little off tangent , but not much , and I'm going to bring it right back to you is that I'm actually talking and discussing the rosary with a lot of my Protestant friends and the reason is , anthony , we have so much anxiety in the world right now .
You know , we feel a certain pressure , almost of evil around us , and and when they mentioned anxiety to me and I say , you know , I know you're not a Catholic , have you ever prayed the rosary ? And I said , try to do that at night , you know when you can't get to sleep .
You know , here's the mysteries , here's a book on a simple book on it , and allow those stories right to come into you and reduce that anxiety . It's amazing how it works . And so here's how I would bring it back to you .
It would be awesome You're , you know you're upcoming something you haven't started yet , but to write an upcoming children's book on it and a child who finds it .
You know it could be an animal , right , it could be some character that finds a rosary and you know , some way that you know their life isn't going really well , or you know they are anxious or whatever . You know , and there's not peace in their house . And this , this small creature , say , finds a rosary and wonders what it is and starts to discover it .
You can almost take your Protestant friends into the rosary right through those characters . So I can . I can see a book coming up .
Well , I appreciate that , and if I do write that , I'll be sure to give you half the royalties from it .
It's a great idea .
The rosary like . I love it like is like a time machine and and you know a lot of people , you know the whole world , tells you that it's so important to meditate . I have one guy you know telling me oh , you got to , are you meditating ? Are you meditating ?
I say yeah , it's called the rosary and it has the effect of centering you , of calming you and , at the same time , making you receptive to the living God who speaks to you through the Word of God , which the rosary is the prayer of the Gospels , and I'm very comfortable defending the rosary to to Protestant friends .
I love it . Well , let's as we wind down here on this , because I want to ask you a couple other questions , but let's wind down with the book here , because I really like this theme . Look , I know you can't give the storyline away , but there's a miracle that occurs at the end of the book . Tie that into to .
You know what you want the readers to take away from this and , as I'm reading this to my grandkids and stuff , you know what's what , what . What is the main idea you want to come across ?
I think the main thing I'd like to communicate here and it sounds almost pompous to say this , but it's this it's the central message of Christianity and that's the message of hope in life after death the fact that death is not the end of the story . The end of the story is resurrection and life everlasting in heaven .
That's a message that all of us need to hear over and over , and it's a message that kids need to hear every very early , because , no matter how much we love our children and how much we try to shield and protect them from pain , there's just no way to prevent them from experiencing suffering and from grieving over people and over pets in their lives that die .
You know when that happens . They have to be able to grieve with hope . Ultimately , you know that's the difference between believers and non-believers . Believers don't suffer and grieve any less than non-believers , but they do suffer and grieve with hope .
They don't despair , and that belief in the resurrection and heaven is a gift that we can give to our children that will help them over the whole course of their lives . So that's the main reason . That's the main thing I want people to come away with .
The second reason is the reason I wrote the story in the first place , and that's that I'd really like children to be able to connect the secular symbol of the Easter Bunny who doesn't seem like he's going away anytime soon , you know with the true meaning of Easter .
Again , I know that the Easter Bunny is not inherently Christian or Catholic , but I do think that it can be effectively deployed by Catholic parents as a way to add to the festivity of the Easter celebration while at the same time teaching children about the death and resurrection of Christ in a way that's not so frightening .
And that's the important thing , because , you know , teaching kids about death can be scary to them . But to be able to give kids an idea of what Easter is all about , to impart that message of hope without giving them , you know , nightmares of someone being tortured on a cross , that's a very valuable thing .
And I believe that by having the Easter Bunny serve as a witness to the events of the gospel , then you can get that very serious Easter message across and still preserve the joy , innocence and fun of childhood . And , as an additional benefit , just on the side , by baptizing the Easter Bunny .
You know , for me it's very fun because we're cleverly striking back at the secular culture that's always trying it's best to de-Christianize our holidays , always trying to give children worldly messages and this is a fun and satisfying thing for me to do , you know to take the Easter Bunny back and Christianize him .
I tell you , the more I'm listening to you here , the more I'm excited about getting this book . You know , for the kids and look , I speak to a lot of and the John Paul 2 Renewal Center , why I'm associated with we speak to a lot of young people from high school and even grade schools and down , and so what happens is they're very scared .
You know , when COVID came out , anthony , you know it was amazing fear that it instilled in people that you know I mean people without faith . They went off the rails with this . You know you saw this with and I'm not I don't wanna drag into a vaccine thing , but I , you know you just saw the fear of .
You know you gotta get vaccinated , you gotta get this , you gotta get that . Well , anyways , the bottom line was the fear . And what you're doing again with that word hope . You know this isn't our hearts , isn't it ? You know this desire for intimate life , intimate love , and you know eternity .
I always tell young people eternity doesn't mean tomorrow , eternity means forever . You guys are already eternal beings . Already we came into this world , we exploded onto the stage and we're eternal beings .
And so what you're doing here , anthony , is just a wonderful way to take those young children and bring them into this eternal story , and so congratulations on that .
Well , thank you very much and I agree with everything you said about . I think that the greatest problem people have today is fear . They're afraid . They're afraid . Not only are they afraid for their children , they're afraid about their finances , about their work , about health issues . They're afraid of death .
Most of all , people are afraid that they just that they themselves don't have what it takes to overcome all the problems of life . And this kind of fear starts at a very , very early age .
And if we can give children that hope that you just mentioned , if we could teach them that no , there's more to life than just yes , life is going to be , no matter how much you believe , life is always gonna be a valley of tears in a place of sorrow .
But if you follow God , you have that lifeline to God , then God is going to get you through all the problems of life with your faith and your hope intact and with your sanity intact . You know , and you'll be able to get through anything if you have that relationship with God .
So the quicker we and more effectively we give children that relationship , that will give them the protection , the real protection they need , not only to live on without us but to make it throughout their whole lives .
Wow , I'll tell you what you know .
This is an incredible way to evangelize and for people that I know a number of people now that are coming back into their faith because of all those things you just mentioned realize that they're a little late , you know with their kids , and so what they can do with your books here is start to bridge that gap , get them on the right path .
If they were going to look for another one , we only have about four or five minutes left , anthony . If we're looking for another child's children's book , I know that you've written 16 bestselling books for children and they can only pick one more . What would that title be for you as a follow-up to the book ?
Well , the actual . The book that is sort of like a prequel to this is called the Donkey that no One Could Ride , and it's about ? It's about a donkey that takes Jesus into Jerusalem , and he's a weak young , small donkey that no one could ride . There's a miracle that takes place in that book and it's all about faith .
So that's also an Easter book and these two books together are sort of like they work together . One is about Palm Sunday and one's about Easter Sunday .
The other book I would recommend for Catholics is a book called Our Lady's Wardrobe and it's a very big bestseller that I had a couple of years ago and it's about Mary and it introduces children to Our Lady by showing them all the different kinds of clothes she wore during her approved apparitions and Our Lady's Wardrobe , and it's a very fun way to introduce
children to the Blessed Virgin Mary , to Catholic children anyway .
Well , I'll tell you what that's not it . You say that I have a daughter that has four girls and she's not Catholic , but she allows us to take those children to mass . They live fairly close by , they've all got rosaries , they've got the statue of our blessed mother in their rooms , and so they take to this .
They've been learning this since they were a young person , young kids . I'm interested in that book for those reasons .
You know it's a , you know it's it's , it's it's . Some would say it's a sneaky way to convert people , but it's it . God works through . You know it ties very deeply God , our religion is incarnational . God became a human . God became one of us in flesh and he and so . So we're not Gnostics , we're not Maniches .
We don't believe that the flesh is bad and the spirit is good . We believe that the flesh and the world is good too . It's fallen and we believe that God uses things like sacramentals and clothes and books and crosses and rosaries to to as as channels of grace . So you give , you give someone a miraculous medal or a rosary .
They think it's very innocent what you're doing , but actually you're . You know you're giving them that lifeline and they'll be , they'll be in the church pretty soon .
I love it Okay , anthony , on your way out here . Your first book , though , was was was was written for an adult right Was written for adults .
Yes , so I read for adults .
Yes .
Travel Guide to Heaven was my first , yeah , travel Guide to Heaven .
Now this is published in 18 countries . Now I have to tell you I did not read that . It's another very I mean just the name of it , a travel guide to Heaven , is interesting . The idea that it was published in 18 countries tells me this was a very successful book . So can you take just a couple of minutes , just the ?
This has to be very exciting for an author to have his first book published in 18 countries .
I would be excited it was and it was the best seller here , published by Random House , and and I knew it was going to be . You know the the . I wanted to write a book about Heaven that wasn't a heavy theological book that highlighted the fact that Heaven is the happiest place that could possibly be . So I wrote it as a travel guide .
It has an orthodox , deep theology , but it's written in a playful way , and the whole point of the book , if I had to sum it up in a couple of sentences , would be that that that I wanted to show that Heaven is real . It's not less real than this world .
It's not just clouds and wispy angels and , you know , white , I mean if , if , think about it , if this world we're living in right now is real , heaven , the place where God lives , is not going to be less real than this .
If anything , it's going to be more real , more colorful , more active , more energetic , more things to do , more love and and and I wanted to get that the point across that after the resurrection is going to be a physical component to Heaven as well . We're going to have bodies that are transformed .
We're not going to be ghosts or angels floating all around , and that means that when you see your mother again who died and you see her for the first time . You're going to be seeing a real person . You're going to be able to run up to her and hug her and kiss her and feel the warmth of her skin and hear her voice again .
It's going to have that kind of physical component too , and that was the point of the book A Travel Guide to Heaven to highlight those parts of Heaven that are going to be familiar to us and hopefully people won't be as scared of dying or it'll help them in their grieving for loved ones who have died .
Wow , I'll tell you what . You and I have to talk some more , because I just had this come up too , that I had a friend that says Jack , you know what are we going to be doing ? You heard this , anthony , I'm sure hundreds of times . Are we going to just sit on a cloud , listen to a horror player , no matter how outstanding that horror player might be ?
This is going to be boring . And what you're saying is and , of course , when you think about what , the awe and wonder of Earth .
We know that the awe and wonder of Heaven has to be even more spectacular , to your point , but still people have this misnomer that we're sitting there twiddling our thumbs as we're worshiping God , and you know that God's going to take us into an incredible place . So , yeah , so here's another exciting book .
So thank you for that , thank you , thank you very much .
People still are reading and it's been in print for 20 years now .
Isn't it ?
Wow All over the place . So yeah . I don't think it's my best book , but I'd be very happy to have written just that book because I think that it does give a vision to Heaven . That's to people , a vision that's exciting , that's fun , the happiest place created , I love it .
I have some links to put in the show notes so that people can purchase your book . Also , I was poking around on your personal website . You have so many beautiful titles and things there , Anthony . Give us your personal website , will you ?
Well , if your listeners don't mind my long Italian name , it's wwwanthonydistefanocom , and if they go there , I don't sell books on the website . I let the publishers and the bookstores do that , sure . But all my books are there pictures of it , descriptions of what they're about , and I think it's close to 30 books now .
By the end of this year there'll be about 30 books in total . Oh , beautiful .
Hey , you're a pleasure . God bless you , anthony . Thank you so much for being on the show . We appreciate it . And when is ? The book is not out yet , am I right ? I ?
mean it's mid-January . It's out mid-January because Easter this year is early . I think Easter is the last day of March , so this book should be out in January . If it's not , out .
I'll be right around and they can pre-order . I'm sure , sure , sure , absolutely Okay , very good , we'll get some pre-orders going for you and thank you again . God bless you , thank you for having me .
It's been an honor Really really great interview , Thank you .
All right , Thanks everyone . Thanks for joining us . We appreciate it . We'll talk to you again soon . Bye-bye .