¶ Intro / Opening
Hola , soy Daniela . Bienvenidos a mi podcast . Porque todos tenemos una historia que contar . Este es el espacio donde las historias de las personas encuentran un lugar para ser conectadas , compartidas y recordadas , porque nuestras historias son el lenguaje que nos conecta , así que comparte , conecta y disfruta . Porque sí , todos tenemos una historia que contar .
Hoy tengo el gusto de conversar con Luis Alejandro Ordóñez , un escritor y politólogo venezolano con una historia fascinante de migración , identidad y creatividad . Lo más bonito de este encuentro es que Luis Alejandro fue mi vecino en Caracas , el cafetal en Venezuela , y , después de 34 años de haber dejado Venezuela , me encontré con un libro de él .
Su estilo de escritura me fascinó . No podía dejar el libro Y por eso quería que estuviera en el podcast para que nos contara su historia , compartir nuestras vivencias y descubrir cómo su voz y su inspiración han evolucionado en tierras extranjeras . Vamos a disfrutar su historia .
Bienvenido , luis Alejandro Ordóñez , al show de Porque Todos Tenemos Una Historia Que Contar .
Gracias , gracias por la oportunidad , gracias por dejarme participar , un placer realmente .
Sí , estoy muy contenta de que estés aquí . Of course , how do we know each other ? We were neighbors , but you're much younger than me so you didn't pay much attention to us . But you're a friend of my best friend , Carlos Alfredo Guzmán .
I saw him a few months ago and he showed me a book that is written by you , so I took it off , I've been reading it and , well , I decided that it would be great por ti se lo quité .
Lo he estado leyendo y , bueno , decidí que sería buenísimo que estuvieras aquí con nosotros para que nos contaras tu historia y cómo llegaste a ser el escritor que eres ahora .
Gracias , gracias , sí , excelente , Me encanta la oportunidad . Y qué bueno que primero que hayas hecho de nuevo contacto , porque había sido muchos años , sí , sin saber nada uno del otro . Y Carlos siempre es bueno , él es el amigo de todos , ¿no ? Entonces él mantiene a todo el mundo en contacto de alguna u otra manera .
Entonces , bueno , es un lujo contar con él porque , de verdad , gracias a él , el libro está en Alemania , Gracias a él este contacto siempre es como un lujo tenerlo de tu lado .
Sí , buenísimo de que seas el escritor que eres ahora . Quiero que cuentes cómo empieza tu historia . Yes , great that you are the writer you are now . I want you to tell us how your story begins .
I thought a lot about that question , because from where to really start ? And I think that I like to say that the writer I am now begins with my move to the United States , precisely because , at the time I moved to the United States , I had to make decisions .
And one Precisamente porque en el momento en que me mudó a Estados Unidos , tengo que tomar decisiones , y una de las decisiones fue hacer contacto con la comunidad literaria en español de Chicago . Eso fue lo que reseteó el camino hasta hoy . Cuando yo llegué a Chicago , agosto 2008, .
En septiembre 2008 , estaban entregando un premio literario de una revista , la revista Contratiempo premios for a story , a story written in Spanish . Well , I went to the award ceremony . Luckily , they had a whole award ceremony event . There are other awards that are simply administrative right .
You find out by email that you won or that you lost it , and there is nothing else .
This had an award ceremony , so I could attend , and there I met a number of people who are still part of my network of friends in the United States , and there began a path of reinvention , yes , of reinterpretation of what I was doing , but also a new path , because being a writer or being in the cultural community , in Spain , in the United States .
That puts you in contact with a series of issues , problems , claims that were not present when one was in Venezuela . And I also like to mark that path because , although I have written all my life , all my life I have worked in my writing .
It was always like an activity , like who says annex , it was other thing that I did was here , where that became the main thing tell me , because I chose chicago chicago . well , it was a mutual decision with my wife , because my sister lives in chicago , in the outskirts of chicago , in naperville , then I knew the city .
When you have a opportunity to do a postgraduate degree , it has three positive answers and they were precisely San Francisco , new York and Chicago .
It was an important decision to choose because there were three extremes , to say it like that no coast to the west , coast to the east , midwest and in reality , there was no way to decide between the programs as interesting as the Chicago one . To be able to make the decision , we resorted to the personal .
No había forma de decidir entre los programas tan interesantes como el de Chicago . Para poder tomar la decisión Recurrimos a lo personal , la presencia de familia cercana en una ciudad que yo , en mi caso , conocía más que cualquiera de las otras dos . De hecho , en Nueva York , solo vacaciones .
San Francisco no la conozco , Y esa decisión fue lo que me permitió también hacer una investigación de qué iba a hacer yo , me iba a ensartar yo en esa decisión que me permitió , which also allowed me to do an investigation of what I was going to do .
I was going to get stuck in that decision that allowed me to quickly and I knew more than other cities to get to the centers that interested me .
And what did you do before leaving ? What is the story , a little bit , of when you were living in Venezuela ?
I am a political scientist . I graduated in political studies from the Central University of Venezuela and at that time I worked in political studies from the Central University of Venezuela and at that time I worked in political communication . I worked in the mayor's office in a department called Strategic Analysis .
It was a department of advisory on issues of opinion , of public opinion , at the office of the mayor and I also taught classes at the Catholic University Andrés Bello in political communication , at the School of Social Communication . I taught political communication Very good en la Universidad
¶ Moving to Chicago and Literary Beginnings
Católica Andrés Bello de Comunicación Política , en la Escuela de Comunicación Social de Aba Comunicación Política Muy bien .
La otra cosa que también he escuchado , bueno , carlos , dice que tú eres un hombre sumamente inteligente ¡Ah , caramba , gracias , gracias , gracias . No bueno Sí eso no es fácil . No es fácil que uno tiene , que sabes , una responsabilidad muy grande .
Sí , sí , sí , Bueno , pero la inteligencia no es muy práctica . La verdad que no soy un tipo así muy práctico . Entonces , ¿cómo es eso ? Los problemas de la vida cotidiana , suelo no resolverlos demasiado bien , sino más bien problematizarlos muy bien , no resolverlos .
La inteligencia a veces tiene sus contrapartes , el lado filosófico , a Exactly the side of the project of well , if it works , we continue . Venezuela was already offering few opportunities for growth and , yes , it worked . Here we continue .
Yes , so they decided to stay . They stayed in Chicago or they moved to another place .
At the age of 8 or 9 years of living in Chicago , we moved to Miami , and I continue here .
Is this because of the climate , or what ?
Well , yes , because of the climate . The truth is that Chicago is a very beautiful city with many things , but it's a city of four or six months . The other months of cold are difficult to manage . Miami also offers more opportunities for professional growth . In literary terms . Miami in Spanish is also very active , very attractive .
Miami in Spanish is also very active , very attractive , and an element that it does not have perhaps in Chicago is that it is much more connected with the rest of Latin America . In Chicago , the city itself is a city that presumes a lot of being self-sufficient .
Chicago is Chicago and that permeates into all the things in the city , including the cultural movement in Spanish . We triumphed in Chicago and then , well , the world knows us and that's very interesting , that's very important . That gives a vitality to that movement that is difficult to find and a singularity too . But in Miami , miami is very close to Latin America .
So there are many people thinking about what happens in the rest of Latin America , what happens in Spain , much more than what is thought in Chicago .
So in that sense it is another very important , very interesting , but completely new , different for one two different movements , two different postures due to the shape of the city and the way the city is conceived , I think , very interesting .
Thank you for and in fact , I had semi-published because I worked for magazines or did some things , participated in some events . I published a novel on my own , but it was always like an additional adventure . Yes , I always wrote , I always participated in workshops . In fact , all my training as a writer is in Venezuela .
But here , as I say , my perspective changed a bit too . Here I write and do other things , which is also , again , a change of perspective . Everything perspectives are important it changes the point of view . Yes , you have to change the points of view because things change .
I think I understood that you decided that you were going to be a writer and dedicate yourself more to that . How did you feel ? Because , of course , being a writer is not the same as having a job that you know from 9 to 5 , that they give you a salary . So what are you know ? Do you have fears ?
¿Cuáles son sabes ? Tienes los miedos o… Claro , claro , no . Ese la gorra de la migración te amplía también la disposición , ¿no , a hacer cualquier tipo de cosa . Yo sí sentía que , del lado de mi profesión , remontar el tema de la formación era mucho , porque , al final , estudiar el sistema político es estudiar a un país .
¿no , it was a lot , because , in the end , studying the political system is studying a country , right ? So being a political scientist is one of the professions perhaps more geolocalized than one can have , right ? Once you leave your country , your references change so much that , well , it wasn't much of my interest to go there . So much so that , well , it wasn't
¶ From Venezuela to Miami: Career Evolution
much of my interest to go out there . But also , but also , that the decision is also a fan , and today I explain it . I explain it like that it seems direct . Right , it was one of so many things that I had in mind . I don't remember any other , but that was one of the options and that worked .
Well , I got there and I got into a cultural world that interested me , that I liked , that received me with open arms , that made me part of it immediately . So , well , the results were there . But , yes , it was one of several options , right , because well , that's another one that I have repeated on some occasions .
They tell you that you don't have to make two rabbits at the same time , because one burns . En algunas ocasiones te dicen que no , hay que hacer dos conejos a la vez porque se quema uno . No , bueno , cuando migras , hay que hacerlo dos , hay que hacer cuatro o cinco conejos a la vez , a ver cuál , cuál queda bien .
Sí , ya veo . Bueno , hablemos de tus libros . ¿cuántos llevas ya ?
El tema es difícil porque cuatro libros míos y dos antologías que también considero mías . Pero bueno , antologías siempre hay algo de título prestado , ¿no ? Porque es el trabajo de otros . Entonces , bueno , cuatro libros , uno de relatos y tres novelas , y estas dos antologías , que son de micro relatos ¿Cuál fue el primero ?
¿Cómo te sentiste cuando terminaste ?
El primero se llama Play y es un libro de and editor , who was the first person I approached at that event after it ended , and I approached him . That relationship still remains .
In fact , I have published four books with him and that first book is a book with more Venezuelan stories than American Because , except for the first story , the others probably were gestated in Venezuela . But that's the first book I published here .
Of stories I still come back to one or another way with tension , and I have always been filled with a lot of satisfaction those stories that are also written with an intention to see , in the sense that I wanted my stories to be like personal crises of people who did not know what was happening around them or how to react , and they wanted it to be written
with that feeling . Many times people tell me that they did not give me a breath . Well , I wanted it to be written with that feeling . Many times people tell me uy , you didn't give me a breath . Well , it's that I wanted the character to not have a breath , like who says , overpassed by the situation .
Are your books translated into English as well , or only in Spanish ?
Only one is translated into English , which is the last New York Times , which was translated as the Last New York Times . It was translated by José Ángel Naveja , un editor mexicano-estadounidense . Que bueno , yo le mostré el libro con la idea de si le gustaría participar en el proyecto de traducirlo , y realmente le gustó . Y publicada en español y en ediciones
¶ Writing Process and Creative Routine
por dos editoriales distintas .
Ok , entonces tenemos .
Play el último New York Times . Si me muero , abre estos archivos , que fue el que leíste y el más reciente aquí .
No encontrarás a Weeping Sally ¿Cuál es tu rutina de escritura ?
Mi rutina de escritura es escribir cuando se pueda , donde se pueda¿ . Así Como sea , sí , porque la verdad que , al final , todos queremos ser Paul Auster , ¿no Que le preguntaban a Paul Auster ? Right that they asked Paul Auster , what is your writing routine ? Well , I went to the office and worked from 8 to 12, .
I went to lunch , I returned to the office and worked from 2 to 6 , and such .
And you say well , wow tremendous .
Thank you , most writers , fantastic . Meanwhile you are stealing time from other things , so my schedule changes so much according to the work I have that I cannot have a writing routine , because the routine is marked by things that I cannot vary . I can vary the writing . I can write at night , in the morning or at noon .
So when it is available , it is also available to do things like always having something at hand the notebook . I prefer to have a notebook at hand to be able to write .
For example , my husband wants to paint . No , I'm not inspired , no , it's not the time , no , no , I mean he always has an excuse . So I always say well , but if one doesn't sit down and it's kind of forced , then it never comes out .
If one waits for inspiration , that can be eternal . I don't know who said it the first time , but inspiration has to grab you . Working , I always separate two processes the process of generating ideas and the process of elaboration . For me they are two different things .
But besides , the two things are creative because when you are sitting writing , things arise that would not have arisen except by writing . The process of writing is in itself . Obviously , when one says it it seems obvious , but it is not .
It is creative too because there are things that arise in writing that were not foreseen , or that you had not thought about , or that you had not thought about it and you went there . That kind of thing happens , but that's when you've already generated the idea , when you already have the project .
Sitting down to write without a project , without an idea , has never happened to me . That is to face the blank page . Well , the blank page is blank because you haven't started . But when I sit down , I already have something I want to do . Right , what I want to say ? What is an idea that I want to explore ? Does it work or not ? That's another topic .
That's the process . So the idea , the idea , has to be attractive enough . You have to like it so much , it has to seem interesting enough for you to go to sit down to write it , and that's where I think there shouldn't be an excuse , right , tiene que parecer lo suficientemente interesante como para que vayas a sentarte a escribirla .
Y ahí es donde creo yo que no debe haber la excusa , ¿no , Tu idea tiene que ser tan atractiva para ti como para querer hacerla . Y si ya la quieres hacer , bueno , siéntate a hacerla , pues hazla . No funciona , o la cambiaste o you abandoned it . That's another thing .
But that the moment you have to be producing ideas that provoke you to carry it out , it's very interesting how you do it to get your characters . Well , yes , ideas arise in many ways . The last New York Times came from reading the Year of the Death of Ricardo Reis by José Saramago . José Saramago tells an anecdote in his book .
José Saramago , the Portuguese writer , writes the Year of the Death of Ricardo Reis , a novel , and in that novel he tells the anecdote of the New York Times that John D Rockefeller receives . I read this anecdote and I look for it . I want to find that New York Times , rockefeller , and that is the germ of the last New York Times , my novel .
So there is clear that the inspiration , so to speak , as specific as that here you will not find Whipping Sally . The process is much more intricate
¶ Character Creation and Inspirations
because it was born from a project that a friend of mine proposes to me . Rafael Franco Crips to write a story for an anthology that he was preparing for him . The theme is the lost writers of Chicago . That is such a specific topic that , unless they propose it to you , it is not that . Ah , look , here I have three stories about lost writers of Chicago .
Específico que a menos de que te lo propongan . No es que a mira . Aquí tengo tres cuentos sobre escritores perdido chicago . Me interesa el tema , me encanta y me senté a producir la idea . No sabía cómo la iba a hacer , como venía y cosas que tenía en la cabeza .
Bueno , chicago , para mí , hay dos cosas de chicago que siempre me han interesado , me han fascinado . Primero , el sí me votó . El clima de la ciudad Es un clima muy traicionero , es un clima que tú estás en el día bonito , y de pronto viene una tormenta de la nada . El lago se transforma de una manera impresionante .
Hay veces que es un plato azul , cristalino , y otros días es un lago tormentoso de unas olas terribles , de unas olas grandísimas . Eso siempre me ha gustado . And other days it's a tormented lake with terrible waves , with very big waves . I've always liked that .
Another thing that impressed me , perhaps because I'm Venezuelan , because I'm from Caracas , when I lived in Caracas it was the most dangerous city in the world , so you didn't do many things outside , you didn't take care of being outside in Caracas . You walked , looking back and forward and everywhere , and preferably you didn't walk In Chicago .
During the summers , which are very short , there are many photography sessions in the streets , in the avenues , in the squares , of wedding photographs . The girlfriends with a courtesan , with the boyfriend or alone , take photos of the wedding in the squares , and well , and the summer lasts two weeks , so it's two weeks of photos of photos , photos sessions , sessions .
You see girlfriends everywhere . That caught my attention a lot and with both things I built Weeping Sally , which is the widow's girlfriend of Lake Michigan . The story of Weeping Sally is what the novel ends up being . Here you will not find Weeping Sally , lo que termina siendo la novela . Aquí no encontrarás a Whipping Sally .
Juntar dos cosas de mi experiencia , pero es una experiencia visual . No , es algo que me sucedió . Yo veía las bodas y , bueno , el clima me impresionaba , ¿no ?
Y con eso construí esta Whipping Sally que , además , la novela siempre es otra cosa , porque está el factor del escritor perdido , que era la idea que tenía had to try to carry out , because the proposal was that so well , that was a puzzle that I built .
That's how you build characters and ideas , a process that is not easy to predict by the results , that the results are very dissimilar . What produces the spark of the idea ? You don't know when that spark is going to come . Why . Qué va a venir ? Pero uno tiene que estar listo .
Me imagino que lees mucho , sí , sí . Entonces , cuando lees , ¿son cosas que te inspiran ?
Bueno , generalmente es más por esa vía de último New York Times . Esta anécdota una pequeña parte , una mínima parte de la novela , a small part of the novel . Wow , this interests me right , and I go there also with movies . The movies usually interest me a lot . I have several movie stories , for example Truman's show . I liked it a lot .
I wrote the show of Hannah Hill , a story that is a kind of sequel to Truman's show , about what happened to his wife after the show in Truman's show .
Because he left and he set himself free and such but the wife who did that instead of wife .
Well , she ran out of paper and she ran out of work and she ran out of life also . That was my reflection when such . Then I wrote a story about that . I also have a story called Back to the Past . After watching the trilogy of Back to the Future so many times , I still had the idea that , hey , but Marty , marty has .
He was schizophrenic because he remembers something that didn't really happen . So well , back to the Past is a story of what happened to Marty the day after everything was supposedly solved . That I never thought everything was solved there , but that's something that always stays with me with movies about the trips to the past . The trips always generate me .
No , this was not solved , this is not there . And then that type of thing , yes , they inspire me because I'm a little . That kind of thing inspires me because I'm always active , reading actively and looking for things , looking for elements , looking for ideas .
That's why I also like to see art , because it's something that puts me in another plane , in another sensory plane . My process of generating ideas is never very visual , although I talk about cinema ideas . But it's the story , it's not the image , that is generating the ideas .
But then that's why I like street art a lot graffiti , dista Bills , which makes murals , breaking the walls , which seems to me just thinking about that . Breaking the walls is like making the mural , it seems fantastic . So I'm always very aware of those things . Miami had a very interesting thing that I think has lost a bit , which was street art .
There was a lot of street art in Wynwood , which today is well as always . Behind the hippies always come the yuppies and that's a terrible reality of life , of society . So well , that very artistic , very graffiti area would become a commercial corporate area that has some graffiti . It's not the same anymore , but I could see some of that when I moved .
Graphic novels also generally tell me wow , why that ? Because it's history with an image in a way that I don't usually recreate it . I'm looking for things too .
If we go to your childhood , you were very interested in reading . How did you get into ?
political science . Political science , like some deviations , the constant has always been narrating , telling stories on paper , because I'm not a speaker , although . I have 40 minutes talking and saying that you are not a speaker is like weird . But I am not a talker . I am the quiet type , telling stories always on paper . I liked it since I was little .
There must still be some things written there since I was little and always reading , although they have always told me that I am very intelligent but very lazy studying . So I was never a really outstanding student unless I solved it . But never dedicated , never to study . I never dedicated myself except what interested me .
I am always interested in deviations because I think that is where he finds things . For example , I had a knowledge of a very large geography that was due to football , to club football .
I was very aware of's football , so I wanted to know the 1FC con , the Colonia , the club's football , where it was , where it was , the such and such Boca Juniors , why Boca Juniors ? Where it is such and such kind of things . So that there was always like a feeling , a search , interest .
And you also collected baseball cards .
I still have them there . I don't buy many nuevas , pero todavía están ahí en la casa . Sí , las barajitas de béisbol .
Otra historia que me dijo Carlos era que hicieron un proyecto para ciencias con unas bacterias que tenían que poner en un sitio .
Bueno , sí , porque no era , como te digo , nunca muy visual , nunca en casa . Pero hicimos la visual . But we made the bacteria three-dimensional . We made a three-dimensional model . That evidently didn't look very nice , but making it two-dimensional making a drawing or plasticine crushed was very simple too .
We were inept but ambitious , and that combination is always good . But it also breaks the heart a lot . The results don't go with ambition , they go with ineptitude . It was very frustrating because the only three-dimensional model of the salon was ours . It was the one that got the least marks .
How comical . I think I'm going to try to use that Inept but ambitious .
That's a good insult , really . But it's also one thing that , well , we're going forward . We don't know , but we're going to know it in the process . Let's see if we know it . That's a lot of what has always guided me . Well , let's discover it . That's important . In creative work Test , you
¶ Childhood Influences and Future Projects
have to force the limits , the personal limits and the limits of things , of ideas . Sometimes it doesn't work . Well , let's go for another one Next time it does work . If you met Luis Alejandro , younger than now , would you say ? something different now that you're a are . Yes , I don't think that way much , because , in the end , those winds are these storms .
But perhaps I would have tried to tell him well , make the most concrete decisions , but the feeling that I was reaching the same point along a much longer path . How it would have been shorter . Maybe , when it comes to making certain decisions , logic asked me for one thing and the result was the other to be more intuitive , less logical .
That is very interesting More intuitive , less logical , and do you think you've reached that level ?
I don't think so . The issue of rational decision is always imposed Sometimes . I think it's still a piece of advice that I could give myself today .
I'm more intuitive and more emotional . I've always criticized being so emotional , but in the end I'm learning that it's not bad either . No , no , of course , sometimes being very logical , like avoiding a little more , having having more satisfaction with life , or what do you think ?
The matter of being very rational can mean leaving aside things that were important , because rationalization always goes for the matter of resource optimization , for the fastest way it is not necessarily the only way to achieve things that over-rationalize cost-benefit analysis , all that kind of thing at some point given to me , it did not work for me .
More intuition , perhaps it would have been better at some point . Perhaps it is better now Ok very good .
What's new ? What is the future now for you ? What ?
else . At the moment , there is always a new story , a new project that one does not know if it is going to come to an end , because that when you raise the ideas first , you do not know if you are going to be interested enough to carry them out . But you have to develop them and take them into account .
Right now I have two big projects , perhaps a third , that are ambitious , complex , working on research , reading , also introspective research . Right , how do I feel in this type of situation , this story that I am considering as a reaction ? I probably have a book of stories ready , but I don't have any publication project yet defined with it .
One is always like taking one more step , taking one more step , taking one more step , un proyecto de publicación todavía definido con él . Uno siempre está como dando un paso más , dando un paso más , dando un paso más .
Entonces tengo estos dos proyectos porque uno va por un personaje actual de la actualidad , una idea relativa a los memes , y el otro es un personaje bibliográfico .
Tienes muy buenas fotos en la internet que he visto , y también tiene una página web¿ . Cuál es la página web ?
wwwlaoficinadeluiscom . Ahí puedes encontrar libros , los trabajos , ahí , bueno , tengo un boletín de noticias donde te mantengo más o menos al tanto de lo que estoy haciendo . Hago reseñas de libros , hago escritos sobre alguna cosa que encuentre interesante , a veces about something that you find interesting .
Sometimes I put short stories , also videos reviews , and that if I make a video , this conversation will be with your link there too , okay , Is there anything else we haven't talked about ? I think . Well , the truth is that I managed to talk about a lot of things just that .
Well , I hope it'sinda invitación para leer , para que nos leamos y para que sigamos conversando .
Sí , es verdad . Muchísimas gracias , luis Alejandro , por estar aquí conmigo y contarme tu historia .
Gracias a ti , daniela , y gracias gracias a ti por la oportunidad , gracias a tus oyentes . La verdad es realmente un placer . Espero que hayan disfrutado de este episodio y los demás que comparto en este espacio .
Si fue así , los invito a tomarse . It was a pleasure . I hope you enjoyed this episode and the others that share this space . If so , I invite you to take a moment to think of someone who could enjoy what you just heard , or maybe someone who has a valuable , very interesting story to share .
When that person comes to mind , send this podcast , persona venga en su mente . Envíen este podcast . Con ese simple gesto , ayudan a seguir compartiendo historias , creando magia , y que estos mensajes sigan llegando cada vez más lejos . Gracias de verdad por escuchar . Hasta pronto .