Trans Trailblazers: Monica Helms & Darlene Wagner - Part One

I woke up one morning and the image of the flag came into my mind, and I got up and threw it out, and a week later I had the first trans flag.

Hello listeners, and welcome back to Beauty translated. This week marks the end of another beautiful season of our show, and I can't think of a better way to close out than with a two part interview with a major trans trailblazer, the woman who created the trans Pride flag, Monica Helms. Her wife Darling Wagner, also joins us for an enlightening chat with those who have made history and brought us to where we are today. Without further ado,

Well, thank you for inviting us.

Yeah, thank you. Monica had been working with Dallas Denny, who was publishing Monica's writing in Chris and Tapestry TSTV Tapestry magazines, much of which you can easily access to Dan thanks to digital trenched into archive dot net. She quickly became a well known activist and thought leader on trans issues in the late nineteen eighties and into the nineteen nineties.

I spent eight years in the Navy, served on two submarines. I was married and had two sons, and now I have four grandsons. I transitioned in nineteen ninety seven, so I've been living this life for quite a long time my true self and I was an activist in the trans community, mostly for trans veterans. CO founded a organization, the Transgender American Veterans Association, and also oh yeah.

Created the transflat Yeah absolutely created the trans Pride flag, which is huge. Yes, Monica Holmes was the first person to create a flag that would unite the entire trans community. The entire LGBTQ plus community was already represented under the famous rainbow flag created by Gilbert Baker in nineteen seventy eight, and today the community has more than ninety individual flags to represent the individual communities under the rainbow flag. You've

I was born in South Carolina, but I wasn't raised here. Spent most of my life in Arizona.

I think I read that you returned to South Carolina and the military. And was that around the time you started transitioning.

No, you don't transition into villagary. Well, that's true, that's true, especially not in the nineteen seventies. But I discovered who I was.

When we say back then, it wasn't even that long ago that trans individuals had to fit a certain mold in order to be given treatment to begin transitioning. It's thanks to activists such as Monica Dallastinni and many before them that we have the freedom from medical gatekeeping to access treatment for ourselves as trans people, a freedom that is slowly being reversed in this country state by state, just like many other freedoms that women have gained in the past.

But I didn't have a name to it, There was no name for it back then. But I did know that if the Navy caught me dressing as a woman, they would kick me out.

Around the time that you discovered who you were and you realized that this was your true self and you had to keep that hidden for a while, what was that like for you.

Well, you know, just to had to make sure that any of the things that I had for dressing up would be well hid in someplace. But you see, at the time, I didn't realize that I was a train gender woman because one of the things that would have given me away would have been my attraction to men, which I was not. And so in the nineteen eighties, I thought I was a heterosexual cross dresser. But my wife wasn't too thrilled about any of that.

Yeah, and back then there was a lot of gatekeeping around who could transition exactly, and if you were attracted to women, then they were less likely to give you access to transition, right. Yeah, And of course that's changed for the better now, but yeah, that's a challenge that you had to live with for a while. Exactly soon Monica would find herself in Atlanta and close to the home base of Dallastani and aegis, the American Educational Gender Information Service.

One day, I believe it or not, something tell me I had to leave Phoenix and the job that I had there was a long distance operator for Sprint, and I see the writing on the wall that long distance operators were not long for this world. So I looked around and found places in Atlanta that was still far to Sprint, and so I transferred. But I had already created the flag before that. Well, first of all, I didn't create it for the trans community because I didn't

Back then, they were stitching the individual yeah colors together.

And so about two weeks later, I woke up one morning and the image of the flag came into my mind and I got up and drew it out. It looked really good, and I contacted the people that made the Bisexual Pride flag and they sent me swatches and I picked the swatches out and a week later I had the first trans flag. Everybody was asking what's that? What's that? And I had to explain to him just

At all, gender non conforming. Yes, yeah, but.

See some of those terms were invented back then, right. Yeah. Along the way, I had to change the meaning of the white stripe to be with whatever is the current today.

Yeah, because now there's its own non binary flag, yes, which I guess there wasn't when you made the trans flag exactly.

Yeah, there's like ninety different flags that represent people in this community.

How do you feel about the significance of flags for a movement or for getting a point across? Is there importance?

There? There is importance. And I'm also on the board of the Gilbert Baker Foundation. Gilbert Baker was the one that created the rainbow flag, and this board is to help to promote all the different flags and to promote the rainbow flag. And I feel that it's a very important organization because it helps to fight the hatred towards LGBTQ people, and the flags are some of the things that help us to show our loyalty in ourselves.

When you debut the flag in two thousand and people were very curious about it. It caught on quickly. How do you feel like we have progressed or even maybe regressed as a community since then, and since everyone's like adopted it, how do you feel like things have changed since then?

Well, I didn't realize that it was being popular until twenty thirteen when I started looking at pride across the world and I started seeing the trans flag in places and colors, the trans colors, and I'm going, WHOA, this is interesting. I mean, it really surprised me. And now I've seen the flag on every continent, including Antarctica. The only two flags that have been shown on Antarctica are the Rainbow flag in the trans flag.

Seeing her flag's colors in every country, on every continent even proved that what it stands for is in fact present in culture is worldwide. Monica knew that what she had created was a significant symbol of a moon men and had earned its place in the history of human civilization.

So in twenty thirteen, I said, oh, no, I have the original flag. I need to find a place to put it so it'd be safe. So I decided to start at the top and contacted the Smithsonian. And the Smithsonian was just starting to collect LGBTQ items, and so they were interested in this and I had to tell them all about the flag and all about me, because they don't just want you to give something. They want to know about the people that donate. They want to

For maybe like trendsday of visibility, or remember.

Very yeah, various things of that nature. And August nineteenth is the day I created the flag, and was actually the day I ended up donating it to the Smithsonian fifteen years later. Oh that's a transgender flag day.

That's awesome. August nineteenth.

August nineteenth.

I wanted to ask you about another flag that is a newer flag.

I know which one you're gonna be talking about.

We're going to take a quick break here, listeners. When we come back, Monica and I talk more flags and we're back. I wanted to ask you about another flag that is a newer flag.

I know which one you're gonna be talking about.

Is it okay if we talk about the progress flag?

Yes, And you'll get negative responses from me, that's.

Fine because I personally don't love the Progress flag myself, and I want you to share your honest opinions. About it because I have some opinions about it too.

Well, there's more than just opinions. There's the fact that the guy that created it, Dan Quaysar, and what he did was he made it a copyrighted flag, so people have to pay more for the flag, more for the design. Companies can't use it without you know, paying money for it, and every other flag that's out there is was given to the.

Community as free to use public domain.

Second of all, he didn't even have the courtesy of contacting me and said I want to use your colors in my flag. I probably would have been okay by if he asked, but he never did. And now he's making money off of something that I.

Created, right, which you never even sought to see a profit on to begin with.

And so this is not a we're we're not very happy that people those of us at the Guilt Baker Foundation, though officially they don't see anything about it, but it's definitely something that everybody is upset about.

Yeah, and I think even I'm a younger trans person, I'm a younger LGBT person, and I've seen the introduction of the progress flag, and initially I wanted to be excited about it. But once you learn about the fact that it's copyrighted and you have to license it for a fee and all of that, that is very It's kind of the antithesis of what we want as a community, right.

Yeah. Well, see, now there's something that I have an analogy for that. I look at the rainbow flag like the American flag, and all the other flags in the community are like state flags. So the rainbow flag includes everybody, and then you have your own individual flag for your own personal right.

So it's almost like it was an unnecessary addition.

Yeah, he was trying to be inclusive and and he ended up with something that looked a little ugly.

The other thing about it too, is that it was updated within the same year to include the intersex flag, and then it was updated again to include the Umbrella for sex Workers on the flag. And in my opinion, and I think a lot of young people that are watching this happen, it's almost like it's never going to be inclusive enough, Like we're just going to continue to update that Progress flag until it looks like a quilt of some kind, you know, yeah, does it feel that way?

Or I just like I didn't like it originally and I'm not going to like anything that's updated. So you know, it's a to me, it would be very useless to use it, And you know, stick with the rainbow flag. And if you know, you want to show your own colors or bisexual flag or trans flag, whatever those are, it's important too.

The spirit that lies behind a symbol is important. It is this spirit that allows the message that the symbol represents to fully wrap its arms around a group of people. While the Progress Flag was created with a spirit that was about personal, notoriety and profit at the expense of the message, it is no surprise that it ultimately failed to be as inclusive as it was trying to be.

I feel that it. Yeah, it definitely helps. I see it at all these protests that are out there, you know, protesting bands on gender confirming healthcare, and and now Florida has gone to the point where they get band gender confirming healthcare for all adults and every every trans person.

Yeah yeah, and everyone is losing their healthcare providers in Florida. Texas is trying to do the same thing where it's they're making it basically untenable for doctors to perform gender affirming care. How do you feel like, what do you think is a way forward for us as a community in all of this?

Vote? Yeah, don't vote for anybody that has an R and in front of their name, Okay, because you know we're looking at I mean, I'll just say it. Ronda Santis is a Nazi. Yeah, he is a full out Nazi. He's doing things that Nazi Germany did in the thirties. Yeah, banning books, and he wants to have a register of transgender people.

Yeah. So, which is an alarmed you know what?

You know what that leads to?

Absolutely, Yeah, it's a it's alarming, and it's it's terrifying, and I think in twenty twenty four, we're just going to continue to as the presidential campaign ramps up, it's just going to continue to be more and more difficult for trans people. I think as these things get talked about in the public.

Yeah, we're even thinking of moving really out of Georgia.

Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that. And how long have you? How long have you lived here?

Since two thousand and Darlene's been here most of her.

Yeah, because this is where you were raised, right, Yeah. Wow. Darlene Wagner is Monica's wife, and as we're both lifelong george Natives, I felt connected to her. Here's Darlene.

I have lived in Georgia for an overwhelming majority of my years. I spent a little time in the Western States between undergrad and graduate school, and I started Georgia Tech just down the street from here graduate school in two thousand and four, and in twenty twelve, I graduated from Georgia Tech with a PhD in bioinformatics. Bioinformatics is basically computer science applied to biology and DNA sequencing. Tell her when you transition started your transition. I'll get around that.

Type computer person. Yeah. I was reading about you and I saw that on your blog I think you had from like years ago, you said that the two books that you live your life by are the Bible and Nature. Do you care to talk a little bit about that?

Yes, Well, I have really been into nature in the outdoors since I was very young. Everything dealing with all the dysphoria I had growing up, Being out in nature had a healing effect on me, so I tried to spend as much time as much of my free time camping out and hiking as possible, especially in my late

It was beautiful that tiary.

She is carried away something.

No, that was great. That was great.

Well, there are a few things that are worth getting carried away on. And I also wanted to bring a little bit of good tidings during this time of fear.

I think we need it. Darlene, do you want to talk a little bit about your transition story or Oh?

Yes, As I said, I went to grad school at Georgia Tech between two thousand and four and I graduated in twenty twelve. I transitioned in two thousand and nine. That was in the middle of grad school. That was around the time I was taking my PhD qualifier exams, and my professors were none too happy with my decision to change my appearance, change my name. But I had the deans and the college administration on my side. I am fairly skilled at working through bureaucracies.

Which is kind of half the battle as a transperson is working through those bureaucracies and getting what we need.

We must be master diplomats, master negotiators, because that is probably our superpower. We can always put on a charm offensive. And so two thousand and nine I transitioned or started transitioning. It was the middle of grad school. It was rough, however, I had the advantage of being a grad student. They can't fire a graduate student. Soon afterwards, soon after starting transition, I met Monica and it was my life has been so much and more stable and happier since.

So you two have been together now for how many years?

Two thousand and nine, fourteen, fourteen?

Wow?

And are you married or yes? Okay? When did you guys get married?

Twenty sixteen?

Wow?

It was already legal, but a certain orange haired fellow won the election to the White House. We were afraid that gay marriage would be taken away, so we figured we'd run and get married in the courthouse as soon as we could. It's sad and scary, but it is another one of those things that points to the strength and adaptability of our community. We are more than just bodies and minds and ideas or ideology. We are a

Thank you, Darlene for those powerful words. We're going to take the last break here and we'll be right back. And when back, beauties, you make music for transliteration, Is that right?

Yes?

Suh?

Well, I try to. I'm very shy I'm not into the gay bar scene. I'm not into the drag scene. Since I think of myself as full time living as female, it feels kind of it would feel kind of silly to me getting all gussied up in a sequine gown and then sing my folkloric, rustic type music in a glitzy, glamorous downtown bar. It just it just aesthetically, it just doesn't all fit together. So I really haven't really found much of a venue in which to perform my songs.

And where you raised Southern Baptist.

Yes, Southern Baptist slash Methodist. As soon as I got my driver's license, I said goodbye to my parents Southern Baptist church and went over to the Methodist church down the street.

Gotcha, Yeah, it's a lot more chill there, I'm assuming, not as a hell fire and brimstone.

I much preferred hearing sermons about baseball than hell.

Yeah. I grew up Catholic and that was about the same.

I also was raised Catholic. Yeah, so I say that I was religiously abused when I was a kid.

Yeah, I'm traumatized by I say, I'm traumatized by religion. You know.

Yeah, well, we ought to have we ought to have a trans group for recovering Catholics.

I agree. Actually, I know a lot of recovering Catholic trans people that have really been through the ringer in the church. I'm always interested on the subject of spirituality and transness because so much of religion, or mainstream religion and people that preach it are preaching an anti trans or an anti gay idea of their religion. But I'm always delighted to see other trans people embracing their spirituality in a new way that is accepting of their identity