Becoming Letterboxd Users: with Liz Purchell

These filmmakers, the ones that really cared and were really trying to do good work. They were using sex as a way of exploring these ideas of gay liberation. We're still arguing about the merits of promiscuity versus monogamy or you know, polly relationships or you know, I only have one partner, Like, none of this stuff is new, and I think people don't realize that.

It wasn't an AMC, so I unfortunately am a loser. I did not see Dune Too at AMC. I thowt at one of the you know, just one of those off label theaters, and I loved it.

It was fucking amazing a theater that only serves like doctor like not fuck, what's the off brand, like mister Pib, Like like Doctor Spicey or something like that, like all those like, well, mister Pib is the off brand. But there's an even offer offer off brand of a Doctor Thunder. It's called Doctor Wait, no, I think that's the off brand Mountain too. I think my parents bought Doctor Thunder one time and I was punching holes through the wall, like, Mom,

Yeah, I fucking loved it. So I went in a whole Dune journey this weekend. I watched Obviously, I went back and rewatched the first one.

You said you watched the mini series too, right.

Well, I didn't watch the mini series no, but then I watched the David Lynch mm hmmm, absolutely terrible. Well, you know what, one thing I will say about the David Lunch, one thing I will say about the Dame absolutely terrible. It wasn't absolutely terrible. The visuals were actually stunning. But one thing I will say about the David Lynch is it was really really fucking good at explaining the

That's one of my problems with it is that it's weird for a David Lynch movie on a lot of reasons. But yeah, one of them being that David Lynch doesn't explain things like that's like very key to like his artistic process. Yeah, but in this movie he's just explaining everything to you the whole Well, time. Have you read

It wasn't terrible, But I do agree with what you told me, and you said that it gets bad once they get to like the Fremen village.

Yeah, once they get to the seat, it's like it all falls apart. It all falls apart because they're just rushing to the end at that point.

Yeah.

Yeah, the DNI did it a much smarter way by trilogy having Yeah, well the first book is like two books technique, and yeah, it ends more or less where the first movie ends and ends more or less where the second movie ends too, And also same with these

It was so Yeah, I just want to know how they got off the worms. I just wish that they would have shown that, because are they tucking and rolling? Is that what's going on?

They're just like they've had its head they're like, oh, I don't I don't know. Actually I don't remember if they explain that. I think they do. I think they like slide down it somehow okay with the hooks or something. Well, I went down another rabbit hole this morning. In the way, I wanted to ask you one more thing about it. What did you think of Austin Butler? Which one is that guy? He's the freak ass the freak ass Billy Corgan from a Tool music video that is so funny.

I mean I thought he was hot looking like a freak he played Elvis. Oh wow, he's super hot. Yeah.

He's a very funny person too, because he's very weird, like he's he's really weird in interviews. He's really like, I don't know, he's just a very like truly like weird little guy. But he's like beautiful in every single way. Yeah, I don't know. I thought his role in it was so fun like him, he was so I loved.

The kiss the kiss between him and where they where he kissed him and I was like, oh, that was kind of gay, and then like he kissed him back, and I was like, oh, that's a realer guy.

No, I'm kidding. Well, you know this is interesting because a long time ago we were talking to some trans girl. I don't remember who it was, but she was asking us. She was saying like, yeah, I love sci fi and I think Sam was like a dueler Dune because Sam's like an obsessed with Dune. And she was like, no, yeah, She was like what's that? And I was like, how do you not know what you just said? You're obsessed with sci fi? Like how do you not like, how

Eda.

I mean, but if you need the media, you consume to be queer, like kill me? No, I agree, you know what I mean. But I do think that's an interesting question because part was Paul. But Paul is like non binary code very because.

Oh, and isn't his dad like a eunuch in the book? Where am I making that up? Okaysky made that up. I want to talk about Hodorowsky in a second.

Oh, I haven't watched that Hoskis too well, his dad has a penis. Oh, okay, okay, No, there's a documentary called Hodowski's Do.

Yeah, I watched it this morning. I want to talk about it. So I at five o'clock in the morning, when my dog was shitting blood out of his bee hole and throwing up on my linen duvet cover, I got up and I started watching Howderoski's Dune and it blew my fucking socks off. Okay, this movie, the fact that it was never made is so infuriating, and it really just comes down to the fact that, like Hollywood didn't trust Howtorowski to direct this huge movie. They gave

Oh take a guess, crazy Spanish speaking crazy person. Fuck uh, Javier Malay and Penelope Cruise. No, you have to think of the era of the era. I don't know Gloria Estefan and.

I don't know is going to be played by Salvador Deli and the Princess was going to be played by Amandlayer. And if you know anything about me.

You know that I'm waiting the trans woman.

Well, Janie, that's controversial, okay, because she, yes, is probably definitely most likely a trans woman. She's never officially.

Yeah, people say that about me too.

Yeah, she never officially come out, but so for all we know, she's a sis woman.

Bad.

She was in the documentary. She like she like spoke in the documentary. She was interviewed. It's really good. You should watch it.

I don't really like Kodowski.

It's oh my god, I actually thought we were gonna I it's not I actually likes I have a complex feelings because I enjoy The Holy Mountain. I think it has a lot of cool visuals in it, but it's I rarely say this about movies because I generally like stuff like this, but it is very like I hate using this word, but it's like it's very weird for the sake of being weird, and it has a lot of stuff in it that I just know is like just there to be like weird.

And make you feel uncomfortably. Yeah. That being said, I think there's a lot of cool shit in it that I do like, but I just think he's up his ass a little bit. And I also don't like that he filmed a little literal like rape, like an actual rape in one of his movies. I think, Yeah, in the movie El Topo, there's a rape scene and they like didn't like tell the actress like what they were about to do.

End.

Yeah, it's really gross. It's really fucked up. So thank you for educating me on. Yeah, I don't like him for that. I think that's really bad, the same reason I don't like Bertuluci. I think I think it's gross, but.

Actually explains a lot about he actually in the documentary because he's still alive and he's interviewed in the documentary.

He's made some he's made a few movies in like The Two Thousand Tons.

Yeah, I will I will say he's not my favorite Spanish speaking director. That would go to the one who uses red and everything. What's his fucking looking?

Oh my god, I'd tie me up, tie me down and volvert that guy Pedrama Dovar. Yes, and he's got that new movie with We talked about the skin I live in with Hassa. I think, yeah, okay, anyway, or no, we talk about it with Liz, I think yeah, yeah.

Well, you know what, this has been a fun little ramble down dune, dune corner. We had a duney corner, dune lane. Should we talk about about what we're getting into today and who are guests is? Since we just mentioned her, yes, I would love to. Liz Prischelle is a queer film historian, film preservationist and you'll probably hear me say a lot of this again in like a second, but she's awesome. She was someone I followed on letterbox

Listening to us. I think this is going to be a treat for you. She's going to give you a lot of good education, a lot of very good recommendations. And this is a really fun one. Hell yeah.

Finally, it's the episode we've been leading up to. It's our Letterboxed episode, the big gay Letterboxed episode. So Michael becoming letterbox Users. Okay, that's the title of the episode right there. Well, everybody, enjoy our conversation with Liz Perschelle. Well, we're very excited about our guest today. Please welcome to the pod.

Everyone.

We have Brooklyn based queer film historian, programmer, filmmaker, and creator of Ask Anybody. Her name is Liz Perschelle.

Hi, Liz, how are you doing good?

How are y'all?

I'm good. You're like the fifth person from Brooklyn we've then this is just interviewing people.

Yeah, now, this is just the Atlanta Interviews Brooklyn podcast quite literally.

I mean I was thinking going into this, I I think it's funny to be on a podcast about transness in the South, given that I just moved to New York two months ago, you know where, from Austin, Texas, and I'm from Campil, Florida.

So you've got you're a person of Southern experience.

Yeah, I had shared trauma.

Yeah yeah, I mean in like the show description it says that, like you know all that, but since I joined the show, we've really like derailed what this show's supposed to be of. I single handedly of derailed like all the like seriousness of what this show is supposed to be about. So all her Twitter shooters, now, yeah,

That's the stuff that gets the grants and the sponsorships.

True. Actually, actually, can you cut that out and replace it with me.

Saying please, Atlanta is so bad. All these non binary baristas are so mean to me and.

Made no one, no one has any rights, help us, No, I got too many rights anyway, Hylas, how are you doing? How are you doing. That's good. Good. Well, I've been following your letterbox like almost like since I started my own. You actually put me onto a movie that I really loved that I know you're a big fan of called Lady Terminator. And yeah, I don't know. I just I wanted to talk to you about like movies, tran stuff. I don't know, we keep it kind of loose around here.

Sure, I do a lot of different things. My day job is I work at the American Genre Film Archive, which in and of itself does a lot of things. We have a physical film archive collection of about three thousand, thirty five milimeter film prints. We restore films, We release films on home video on Blu Ray, and we also distribute films that we own and also that other home

Even the plaza. Yeah, I was gonna ask have you been to Atlanta before? I have?

I mean, growing up in Tampa, I was in Tampa and to I was I think like twenty six.

I'm so sorry.

I'd always I know I'm saying, I always have to either go to Orlando or drive all the way up to Atlanta to like to shows or movies or not even a Savannah. I've never been to Savannah.

Now really for the first time. I love Savannah. It's exactly like the way the movie May December like portrays it. Like everyone is very everyone in Savannah is very weird. Like it's a very weird place. But it's it's cool, it's it's it's a little clear too. It is there's a lot of like gay little like uh Art Savannah College of Art and Design kids, and also night clubs

They played Dracula last year visit. I was fucking what's not brom Stoker, Francis Ford Copola. Francis Ford showed up too, Yeah, brom the Stoker showed up.

Francis Bord Coppola is kind of doing that thing that like Kanye did where he like it's just like taking up a residency like in Atlanta, like filming his new movie. Literally, No, I actually I actually know someone who's like working on that movie. And uh, they said there was someone that like got like hit by like a car or something, and like they filming in Georgia.

I don't know, they like really like fucted her over, like really badly.

I don't know. I don't know enough about it to like go on like a full tangent about it. But did he shot?

You're saying, fran you wait, hold on, what's that you said? Francis Ford Coppola shot somebody?

She was driving the car.

Yeah. Yeah, they're making a movie about Caitlyn Jenner. They're making speed Racer with Caitlyn Jenner. I'll get you there in a jiffy, kid. Yeah, herb be fully loaded. Oh my god, Kaitlyn Jenner just derailed.

I mean if you want to see the best Kaitlyn Jenner thing. I would just say, watch Can't Stop the Music, which is the Village People biopic, which trandition. She is the co star, she is the male. She is the male like romantic like lead of the movie. She's the Village People's lawyer.

Oh my god, that is so fucking cool. Watch that. Thank yeah, I do have to watch this. Thank you for putting us onto this awesome. We talked about we bring up Caitlyn a lot on the show. I think I think every trans podcaster just always has Caitlyn on the brain.

I just want to say about Can't Step the Music. I mean, you think of the Village People, they're gay icons. What is the Village People movie is gonna be like, it's gonna be them hanging out. It's gonna be fun. Yeah, it's actually about the straight people who created the Village People.

So it's kind of like the Bohemian Rhapsody movie.

It very much is, yeah, because the guy who produced it was like, I'm gay, but we cannot make a twenty million dollar gay movie. So we have to make to sell the Village People just like straight America. So we have to turn them into like friends to children. So they try to so that that movie. They're trying to like present the village people in the most like hetero way they can. They try to make them straight.

They all have girlfriends, the leather daddy, yeah yeah, but they all have such straight jobs firemen like cop.

So the first half of the movie it's them trying so hard to be straight. And then when the village people all get in the same room together and they are finally the village people, it just becomes the gayest fucking movie ever made. The YMC A musical number will shot at a y m c A and it is this like celebration of masculinity, Like they're trying to roticize Caitlin Jenner, like doing like exercises in swimming and diving and playing basketball and short shorts.

And that's so cool. Got to watch that. Yeah, we're adding that to the list.

I mean, this is a big day for beauty translated because we talk about movies a lot on the podcast in general. So to have somebody who's a queer film historian, big day for us, big day for us.

Here, Yeah for sure. Shit, Uh, is there is there anything you guys are like working on now to like restore or anything, like I don't know, like what's what's kind of what's kind of going on in your world in the world of queer film restorations and stuff.

Well, we have something that we just acquired fairly recently that I can't really talk about, but it is a very exciting trans movie from the seventies that I'm excited to.

Okay, get back out one.

Of course, I wish it was my reckin Ridge.

But I remember a long time ago we like I mentioned something about how like I don't know, we've talked about like like like representation and movies and stuff like that, and I remember bringing up like how if you're willing to just like look a little bit, like there's so much like I don't know, there's just so many movies like from like throughout the world, Like if you're just willing to like look for it, like there's so much good stuff out there, Like there's so like I don't know,

I mean, I think it's a combination the things. I think part of it is just that this stuff is not readily available. When I first saw a Funeral Parade of Roses and twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, it was a very hard film to see in the US.

Yeah. Yeah, And I do, like I don't want to say that, like, like I don't know, I have like mixed feelings on like the term like representation, because like I feel like it's not you know, the end all be all of like liberation, you know, like like it's

I think, especially with trans I think with trans people especially, I think there is a power to seeing that people like us existed seventy years ago or eighty years ago

Yeah, even before that, Like that's the movie that what's his name? Uh? G I the g I like God, the Christine Story.

Yes, sorry, yes, Glenda, Yes, who was the guy he made fit planet?

Edward?

Yeah? God?

Yeah, yeah, hero famous crossy you know yeah.

Yeah.

One of my favorite one of my favorite things I discovered last year is I was I've spent a lot of time going through like old cross dressing and like trans magazines and newsletters and stuff like that, and like when I started getting into that a few years ago, like I always had in the back of my mind, like I wonder if I'll ever find Edwood in one of these And I finally did under his under his cross dresser named Shirley, including like a letter that he

That's that's iconic. Yeah, I I think like a lot of like this is something that really like bothers me a lot about, like especially a lot of like newer kind of like trans movies and stuff is like how I don't know like a lot of the times when like people like want to make a trans movie, it's like or queer movies too. We're just kind of like now getting to the point where we can just have like normal like queer relationships and shit like in movies.

And I one speak for yourself. My life is pornographic, depressing.

And yeah that's true, true, But that's maybe why I don't want to see that I cry.

Like looking in the mirror every day, Jane, what are you talking about? I just I would rather like watch I don't know, I would rather watch like like Funeral Parade of Roses is about like so much more than just like this trans woman who had a horrible life and then was beaten to death. Like I hate movies like that. Like that is just so like I don't know, like I just I never like find myself like wanting

Yeah. I mean I think the thing like that that like really bugs me about a lot of new trans movies. And I guess this kind of extends somewhat to like new or queer movies too, is that so many of them they're not actually about the transperson. They're about the person reacting to the trans person movie Mutt about the trans guy. And I think Brooklyn.

And it's not about him.

It's not about him or his transition or his you know, his life. It's about him coming in contact with his ex and his like father and like all these other people, and it's about like them struggling to reconcile with him. It's not about him, it's about them, And I hate that.

Yeah, well, how do we feel about Monica? That's like a newer trans film that kind.

Of I haven't I haven't seen it. That movie got me. I really do love to it a lot. That kind of reminds me. I liked this movie, but that was also kind of like A Fantastic Woman a little bit

If you look at movies, I think your your perception of trans people is that all they do is stare in the mirror and like softly caress fabricks. Yeah it's not I have to wake up at six am to go to the DMV to try to get my license changed, or I have to do electrolysis, or I have to do laser or.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I think stuff like that is pretty interesting because that is something that like, uh yeah, that like that that's a side of like the trans experience that like this people like probably wouldn't be incredibly aware of. And yeah, I don't know. I think I think it's like like I said, like it's like it's

It's overdone. It's like there's enough there's enough film and content about that at this point. Like I think the movie like for example, Soldiers Carl is a very important movie. It is depressing, it is traumatizing, it is horrible, but I think it's a very important movie because it tells a.

Real who's the guy in that he looks lee pace, Yeah, says Calipoernia Adams. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's just to me, like that's an important movie because it's a real story. But yeah, it's like traumatizing. But to an extent, when do we start seeing things that are more just normal and like uplifting.

You see, like in the early two thousands, you could have like the L word and like queer as folk and like just stuff that's like are a normal kind of like mellow drama but with gay people. Yeah, and now it's at the point where like you can have like I mean, I can't there's so many horror movies where it's like it happens to be a gay couple and it's like it's not like really related to the plot.

Yeah, well, I guess there was that like, uh like trans mask and on Evil Dead Rise. I thought that was pretty interesting. But you'll know I'm talking about an alien, right, there's that like seeing an alien the like it's very very brief where they look at one of the women, like and it says that she's female transsexual, and like.

Yeah, I do, I do know what you mean. Yeah, she's just never mentioned normal Normalize it, you know, right right, normalize the aliens?

Yeah?

Yeah, but what do we get our guest thoughts on that. Let's see what let's have to say about it?

Yeah, I mean I guess of two minds about it, like one, Yes, I'd love to see it more normalized. I'd love to see more kinds of storylines and films. I would love to see more messy trans characters. Yeah, perfect, pretty little angels I'd love to see a trans woman in a movie for once. Yeah, But at the same time, I do think there is some power to seeing, you know, those kinds of basic stories on screen. You know, I've seen a lot of movies about transition. There's I Want

Yeah, Oh I love Second Yes Serve. It's about the tennis player, tennis player.

Yeah, tennis player Renee Richards played Vanessa Redgrave. So like I'm going back to like the idea that like trans people were this new thing. It's like, no, this was a TV movie from the late seventies, Like millions of people saw this. It was a normal thing.

But then it's almost like it becomes both sensationalized by like current modern day media, and then it also becomes commodified in the sense of like, here's this trans character that we're selling you as like a product for you to buy. I feel like a lot of Disney and like Marvel and shit like that, Like those nods often ring hollow because it's like, Okay, you just want me to go see this fucking movie, so you put a trans character in it.

Yeah.

I think that's the thing for me is I want there to be substance for the characters. I want them to have something to do and not just kind of be there.

I mean, I know people that went and saw the New Hunger Games because Hunter Schaeffer wasn't and they'd never seen The Hunger Games before, and I I get it. I probably would watch it too. Yeah, but I don't know. I guess like I'm not really entirely immune to that either. I feel like we're also kind of like dancing around the whole like evil trans woman archetype, which is something that's kind of like horseshoed back to me to being really fun.

Well.

I mean, that is a series that I've been trying to that I've been kind of working through mentally over the past couple of months that I want to find a venue to do sometime this year. Call it trans Panic, and it's five, six, seven, eight. Trans horror movies from the seventies, eighties, nineties, Dressed to Kill, Dressed to Kill, sleep Away Camp, Homicidal from the sixties, which I love. Look this up Fatal Games, which is about trans people in sports from the eighties at the slasher movie.

Oh my god, I think of anything more horrifying. Wow. And of course Dressed to Kill is like the most famous one. Of course, that's the well Psycho or Sounds of the Lambs probably, well, yeah, Psycho too. You talked about Sounds of the Lambs a long time.

Well, the funny the funny thing about Sounds of the Lambs and Dressed to Kill both of them is that both of them were controversial in their first release. But the controversy wasn't about the killer trans women in them. The controversy was these movies are endorsing violence against women because because the killer trans woman in Dressed to Kill kills Angie Dickinson. Right, Yeah, that means this is a

That's interesting to me for two reasons because one, like I mean, isn't like horror as a genre like killing women is. It's bread and butter, right, we love our

Though, because there's a lot of the gin I hit to be gen z I hate to calms, you know how they're all against people cruising and having sex in public.

That's why it would be against cruising.

That's two things. One, I'm still waiting for someone to make the transversion of cruising where Alpacino has to get on hormones. There's a killer trans woman who was on the street to New York targeting cisman. He likes to get on hormones and go undercover, join in with the dolls. Winds up in a teaper tea couple with the killer.

Before the sergeant can even like finish describing the case, he's like, I'll get my dress.

I've got him the closet already. Maybe maybe start with some surveillance or summer. He's like already putting on makeup.

Like what.

I'm talking. He's like looking up like voice training videos, heat from fire, fire from heats.

It's like.

To use.

Like we caught the killer weeks ago.

It's like, I will give that movie to someone to make. Please make that movie. I think that movie would be incredible.

Yeah, that movie sounds fucking awesome. I would love that.

But yeah, this is something that I was researching pretty heavily. Last year. I did this series at the Almo in Austin called Village of the Damned. The album a draft house and it was called it's Village of the Damned. And it's to bring all this full circle. It's the four New York queer movies from nineteen eighty. There's Can't Stop the Music, which is a village people movie. Yeah, there's Dressed to Kill, which is a killer trans woman movie.

Oh my forever. Yeah.

So the same year you have a killer gay movie, a killer lesbian movie, killer trans movie, and the greatest queer horror film of them all, the Village People straight Wow. And it's interesting that, like all those movies were controversial in different ways. Gay people hated Can't Stop the Music because they thought it was trying to straight.

Wash the Village People, which it was. It was absolutely.

Uh. Lesbian hated Windows because it was a movie about insane lesbian who is, you know, paying someone to rape her friend so that she can get her in her arms. Gay people hated Cruising for a couple of different reasons. Like I think a lot of younger people look back at the protests for Cruising and they're like, oh, they're so wrong, their sex negative or whatever it was. It was a couple of things. There were there were gay serial killers targeting gay men in New York at the time.

The Highway right, Like.

There's the freeway Killers. There's a Doodler in San Francisco. There's a couple of different gay serial killers.

I'm sorry, and the Doodler.

The Doodler. This guy is called the Doodler because in San Francisco he would be hanging out at gay bars and he would offer to like draw a portrait, like let me let me draw you. I think you're handsome looking, let me draw you. Here's the sketch. Now let's go over to the beach or whatever.

And then I mean it's just most serial killers get a name, like the Ripper, the.

Freeway Killer, the Doodler, sights than like the dude. Yeah, that's all of these came out in nineteen eighty.

They all came out in nineteen eighty, which is insane.

That's interesting.

But I think to an extent, the gay community had a point with the cruising stuff because this was coming right after Anita Bryant, this was coming right after the murder of Harvey Milk. Gay people were increasingly becoming the targets of gay bashing, and to have this movie which they thought would portray them in a bad light. And I should say I've seen like an early draft of

I've seen Cruising a lot. They actually played it at Plaza like a few years ago, and I like dressed up in like leather year like to go watch it. And I remember they like did like a thing at the beginning, and the girl was like, who here has seen this movie before? I was like the only one that raised my hand like in like a leather like suit. I'm like, oh, this was a bit unnecessary. I'm kind of unnecessarily sticking out here, but everyone else is in there at leisure.

Like.

Yeah.

I showed it a few years ago in Austin and it was the only time I've ever seen someone in a leather jock strap at a movie theater.

Oh yow, yes, we would get along, hold on the fucking seat.

Just yeah. More thinking about Cruising real quick, like every time I've watched that movie, Like, I mean, I didn't know that about like the like rewrites and stuff, because like it always strikes me that that's like one of the most anti cop movies like I've ever seen like.

It people didn't care at the time.

Yeah, yeah, like it is a seriously like uh, I don't know, it's such an indictment of the police force and like the way that they will like use like minorities and just like step on them and I don't know, I just I I find that interesting because like I didn't know that about like the rewrites and stuff, but like it always like struck out to me, like how

If you want to see the bad version of Cruising, it's this movie I showed a few weeks ago in New York called Partners from nineteen eighty two, and it's the creators of Lakaje All Fall, which was remade in the US. It's the bird Cage. It's the creators of that saying what if? What if Cruising was a comedy?

It's it's it's a rush hour, but with a straight guy and a gay guy. I love that.

I think I might have seen I feel like I've seen clips from this or something.

I would recommend anyone listening to this watched the trailer because I think the trailer is like a perfect, like horrible piece of art because it's like three minutes long. It's three minutes long. It opens with a card saying this trailer has been a proof for all audiences, and then within thirty seconds, Ryan O'Neill is calling someone a faggot.

Yeah. Ryan O'Neill is very hot too.

He just looks uncomfortable and miserable the entire movie, And that's why we showed it a few weeks ago. It was like my edge, lordy, like Ryan O'Neill memorial screening to mourn his death.

He died recently. I didn't even know that. Oh I love Paperman. That's like, yeah, amazing movie.

He was a great actor, a beautiful man, a terrible person. Okay, so that's why we celebrated with partners. Yeah, more or more and him with partners.

M huh, something you'd probably rather erase from his CEO.

Well, something I was going to ask you too, was I mean, well, just I guess you were kind of well we've moved past it already, but I was just going to talk about how, like the whole gay liberation movement pretty much depended on, or at the time, depended on like gay people appearing as like normal and like cis hetero normative as possible. So yeah, I can totally see why people were like up in arms about cruising and like you said, I need a Bryant. That's why

Before?

So people were aware of this film being made and they demanded like so this is like pre social media. That's where I'm thinking, like movies like Sonic and Shit Today can get remade. I'm interested to know more about that story, Like what do you know about that?

Yeah, there is a man named Arthur Bell who was a journalist at the Village Voice, and he was the one who was basically leading the protests for this and someone leaked him an early draft of the script, and he read it and like went to the Village Voice, into the Advocate and all these other publications and like wrote these pieces saying like, I have read this early draft of the script, this is going to be the most homophobic movie ever made.

Wow.

And he had a point.

Yeah, I mean the most homophobic movie ever made. I feel like that's going to be a hard feat to accomplish. Yeah, that's a big shoot a film.

I will I will say, Carmen, going off with what you're saying. Something I love about gay liberation stuff from the seventies is that they were so desperate to show that being gay was like a natural, normal thing that if you watch a lot of gay documentaries from the seventies, they will interview people like out in nature to be like, no, this is this is natural. This person is like sitting by a lake, they're in a park like this, this is normal and natural.

And that trickled down to plant in Today. We have plant gays and fucking hiking gays and it's okay, you can just be in the house gay, okay. Ari I co op Yeah, the ARII co op gaze. You know, Wow, that is funny. And that's like a little bit of like subliminal messaging in a production there for you.

Yeah, there's this really great documentary from nineteen seventy seven called Word is Out, and the whole the whole thing with that movie is that they interviewed twenty six gay men and lesbians and it's just bysically them talking for two and a half hours telling you their stories. And in the woods there's there is one person who's like interviewed by a lake. There's someone else who's like in

That's so cool.

That's you know how they should say, you know how they should interview us. I should put us in like a test tube and like a lab and like I like have like twenty six trans women and has been interviewed and like the most like clinical looking we could be like we're not natural, we're.

Free, yeah, or or they make it like look like it's just like a normal like house or something, and then at the end it like pulls out and you see like we're in like this like an invader type of thing. It pulls behind you can see like and the transsexuals were safely behind this one way mirror being interviewed through the power of technology. None of the straight people had to be around them. I mean the.

Version of that is like when you see like trans girls on Twitter whose rooms are just like fucking filthy. I'm just imagined. Yeah. The positive representation is to have like a nice clean room.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean my room's not looking too good.

Right.

You didn't turn on the sign either, I didn't. I fuck, You're right for the listeners, I normally do have a little neon bar sign behind me, and that's how she signifies that she is on air. Yeah, that's that's how my that's how you know my brain isn't working to that she's not locked in the bar sign is not turned on. Liz, have you seen the movie What Gender Am I? From like nineteen eighty or something like that. This sounds good.

It's like the documentary Sea.

Yeah, Oh yes, What Sex Am I? Yeah? I remember I watched that on Criterion Channel a long time ago,

And then it was too late, and I felt the gas and I woke up and I didn't have a penis anymore, and now I just have to live like this.

I was like, what the fuck, Like, I mean, it's like it's hard for me to like have sympathy because you went through a lot to get to this point, Like at any point you could have stopped, like, at any point you could have thought about this a little bit more until you're going on anesthesia.

Yeah, he was the first turf detrans person.

Yeah. Yeah, he was in the New York Times. Yeah, like the first one of those like like British women. That's like, like it says like I was coerced my whole life getting my breasts removed, Like what are you talking about? Like, I don't know, like that that's just I Also, I always like you can also kind of understand the visceral horror, like waking up and being like, no, oh, yeah, that movie's cool. Well I have news for your sex change is actually scheduled for this evening.

Whether you like it or.

Not, okay, depend depending on the day of the week. I'll probably be like.

All right, I mean that's all. Motivar is the skin I live in.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Do you like that movie?

The first time I saw it, I was like very really into transition, and I went to see the local theater and someone was like laughing through the whole thing, and it made me feel really uncomfortable. Yeah, And then like a few months later I found out it was a transcirl who was laughing, so like I was.

Like, okay, I I thought that movie was pretty funny and kind of stupid. Honestly, Like I had a lot of like straight friends recommend it to me just because they know I like movies. Well, yeah, they're like this you should watch. This is great. It's really really good. And then I don't know, Like I remember they were saying, like it's like a really fucked up movie. And then when I realized it's basically like it's basically like a mad scientist movie, but like his mad scientist scheme is

Can I recommend another movie? Yeah, a film from the late sixties by the director of a Christmas Story, and it's called Bob Clark, right, Bob Clark. It's called she Man, A Story of Fixation, and it's a black and white forced them basically like erotic softcore film.

Whoa, this looks hot? Yeah, it's from this Oh this looks cool, dude, Bob Clark was a freak. What was that guy's do? Yeah, he loved Christmas. He made like five movies about Christmas.

He made genius movies.

He made baby geniuses. Yeah, Like Porky's is one of like the worst movies I've ever seen. Like that that is easily like a contender for like like when people ask me, like, what's the worst movie I've ever seen? That's always one that pops into my brain.

I wanted to ask you about. Well, this is just a movie I personally love, but have you ever seen Southern Comfort?

Wait?

What is it called? Yeah, Southern Comfort?

Yeah, not the water able movie.

The documentary, a documentary. It's a really great documentary. I love it.

And that's one that I would love to see back in circulation and the in the theater.

But that's neither here nor there. What is that? It's a great about bottom surgery getting comfort and you're no, it's a traumatizing, sad It's a very documentary.

It's about this trans man from the South who was dying Georgia.

Actually, oh gosh, that's awful.

And no one would give him a hysterectomy to save his life. Basically, no one would treat him.

Yeah, he's like he called over twenty something doctors in the state. Every one of them turned down because they didn't want to work. They don't either want a trans man in their office or they didn't want to be associated at all. It's like, cool, Well that is terrifying and depressing. But I think that that kind of falls into like I don't know what, like we're saying earlier about how like some of these stories like are important even if they're I don't know, like like it's on YouTube.

That's cool.

Yeah, So it's kind of It's an incredible film. It's very sad, of course, but I think things are things like that are okay because they just make you angry and they want you to they want they make you want things to change, and I think that's powerful. Another thing I would recommend is a documentary called Transsexual Menace by one of my favorite filmmakers.

About the group.

Right so it's technically about the group, but it's basically using the group as like a jumping off point to explore you know, transnis in America in the nineties basically, and a couple of the people from Southern Comfort are in Transsexual Menace. And there's there's a section at the beginning of the film which is basically about the Southern Comfort Conference.

Yeah, yeah, which was I mean, I've had this on my watch was for like a long in the movie.

That's hilarious. What nineties fucking trans movie? Was RuPaul not yeah for real?

Forcing her way into have you seen Dressed in Blue? Yeah? Dressed in Blue is awesome? Went to it. Yeah, we went to a showing of it. There was a wasp in the theater.

Oh my god, it was I was so scared the whole time. I was terrible. It was scarier than what was on the screen.

My god.

Okay, I did have to look away during the breast and plant scene because I was not Oh yeah.

They got in there. They got in there for real.

I was not ready for a full on surgery, like just out just like a surgery shot.

There's also I've mentioned this this movie on the show a lot because a lot of it's in Atlanta, but Cocomo City is kind of a I don't know, it's kind of an interesting kind of like sister movie to to Dressed in Blue, because it's like they're both kind of like trans hangout document memories, you know, like they're very like and I think I like that a lot more like I feel like it's less dramatic, like there's less to kind of like hang on too, but it's

Like I think that's the best way to get the trans representation I mean is through documentaries, right obviously, And then I don't think people really watch that many documentaries.

Though, I mean, I love trans documentaries. They're some of my favorite things I did. So I have a series that I've been doing in Austin that I'm still doing even after I've moved. I've been doing it for two full years now, and it's like a queer film. It's like a general queer film series, but kind of focus on like deeper cuts. And something they let me do

Yeah. Yeah, those are definitely like my favorite's Like that's yeah, that's why I like like Cokona City and Dress in Blue so much. So you're gonna love Southern Comfort. Yeah, I'll check that out for sure. So Liz, I have well sorry, what was your question? Oh I was I was gonna try to piv it to our little game, but if you have a question, yeah, this.

Will be my last to my last little question, then we can pivot to the game. I just wanted to ask you, Liz, what made you want to get into into this career field and like why did why did you want to do what you do.

For me, it's just a being kind of obsessed with movies and fascinated by movies and be like wanting to help get them out there or help show them to people, or I mean, the thing I've kind of built my name off of is this project I do called Ask Anybody, and Ask Anybody? Was anybody Buddy, b b U, D D Y right, And it was basically just me researching and exploring the history of gaye porn. And the thing that got me into those.

Movies is that every night, every night.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, but I mean this goes into everything we've been talking about. Gay porn movies in the seventies and the eighties were the only way that gay filmmakers could really make gay movies and tell gay stories and actually explore like gay ideas in film. You know, in gay porn we see the first coming out stories, we see the first gay romances. We see gay horror movies and gay westerns and gay comedies and

Yeah, yeah, so I think that's what it's like. Uh, Like Burt Reynolds and boogeyn Its. But yeah, yeah, like I want to make actual arts. I think that's very cool. I've noticed you and some other people. I've seen a lot of like people reviewing, like a lot of these movies have been added to the letterbox recently, and I've seen a lot of people like, I don't know. I'm glad you kind of explained that because it took me.

I think a lot of people when they think of these things, they think it's just gonna be like an internet porn video where it's just fucking yeah.

Yeah.

These film these films had stories, they had characters, and the gay movies they were so little budget that they often shot in like the actual spaces, so these movies are the only places you can see certain like famous gay bars or certain gay porn theaters or there were a couple of movies that were shot at New York's Cruising Peers, which are now long since demolished. And here in this movie you can see a depiction of what

Powerful about that, yeah, for sure.

And for me, like as I was kind of like like as when my egg cracked and I sort of transitioning, seeing transporn from that time was really powerful to me because you know, I think a lot of people nowadays would look at that stuff and be like, oh, this is made for cis people like who fucking cares about this?

Thank you for that. I don't know, I really like, uh, I don't know. We're very like discourse oriented a little little subgroup of people now and I feel like just so much of this is like I don't know, just so much of this is so like unnecessary when like you said, like a lot of these like arguments are just very like sick look stuff that like has been litigated and litigated long before like tumblr was ever invented.

Yeah, I mean there's there were gay filmmakers in the eighties complaining about how, in like mainstream movies, the camera would always have to pander the window when people had sex. Yeah, very very calmy by your name. It's like, why why can't we show the people actually having sex or show show their relationship in terms of the actual sex instead of having to you know, be very tasteful and not have it all be part of one thing.

Oh I love tastelessness. Yeah, huge fah speaking of tastelessness. While if, if, if you still have time for it, I put together a little game for us to play. Sure would you like knowing knowing knowing you uh from your letterbox presence. I went I went through UH. I went through the task of combining a list in a little game that I call porn comment or letterbox review. And I've got a list here and I'm just gonna read off some of these statements made by real people.

Can I just say something real quick? This reminds me of one of my favorite old school games, which is gay Bar or Steakhouse.

Oh, that's good. That's good. That's good.

And there was there was there was a website called gay Bar or Steakhouse. I don't know if it still exists, but it was like a game of like Longhorn the Longhorn or like the Ramrod Is this steakhouse?

No?

I love games like the first one we played in the first episode of the season. We had Domino, Presley and like her girl group with us, and I found a list of all the like saw traps, and I found a list of just like weird like either sex positions or like sexual objects. And it was called like sex or saw and it was it was pretty good. I think everyone had a pretty good time.

We've been we've been talking about movies to the past hour. I am a little disappointed. We did not get to talk about how trans the Saw franchise is.

Oh wow. We talked about Saw a lot on and there.

There was this period last year when I started dating someone and she showed me all of the Saw movies and this was like, right when you were watching all the Saw movies?

Yeah, yeah, earlier friend.

My friend Vera Drew was watching all the Saw movies and like, I knew three other people who are who are all watching Saw movies and like losing their minds over.

Well, it was because Saw X was covering, so I wanted to like brush up on the lore.

Because I see, I've.

Seen like up until three when I was like really young, and then I don't know, My like taste is such like a bell curve. It was like a lot of stuff when I thought was really cool when I was young that I as I grew more taste, I was like, this is stupid, and now like now I've kind of regressed into like a pre like hormonal state where I'm like, this is awesome.

I saw one through three or fine Soft four through six, Now that's that's no.

Yeah, I saw a lot of people hating on Soft four, but it has one of the funniest scenes in any movie ever when Donnie Wahlberg's headed the eyes blocked is one of the funniest, like the truly like fall out of my seat laughing moments I've ever had watching a movie.

The insane transition where the woman is thrown into the mirror and the camera goes through the mirror.

And that is so cool. That's I know that is that is that Saw four as well?

Four?

Yeah, oh yeah, dude, that ship is so cool. I completely agree. It's very like, uh, I mean, I know that one's not directed by James Wand, but that's like something James Wand would do, like now, yeah, like in like a like an upgrade type movie or something like that.

One of my projects that have had kind of on the back burners, I want to recut the entire Soft franchise in chronological order and just see how much of a clusterfu that would be.

Oh my god, how much more confusing it would be. I didn't really when I watched Saw X and I realized that, like I like leaving the theater, my boyfriend's like, you know, that's like supposed to be like before the events of Saw two. I'm like what.

So before Saw two he went to Mexico and did all of the what like, that's kind of easy. Letst we forget Saw five. Saw five only exists to show how the new character from saft wour was there the entire or time and not my least favorite.

Saw five is my least favorite. That one just feels honestly, all the like Hoffman centric ones are are not as good for me. He's just such. He's so boring like franchise. I like him and Saw Saw six obviously is the real the real saw heads know that Saw six is kind of the best one. I mean, seeing like healthcare executives get like tortured is just.

That's the incredible because I've been battling and going getting my fucking f fs covered by insurance.

I just hope that the next one, when it comes out, will have a scene where Jigsaw force someone or Yea causes someone to like do their first shot of estrogen.

You you've been gooning to get to transport your whole life. You can name all these transport saws off the top of your head, but can you cut your dick off to save your life? The camera's like cutting like all around him. He like picks up the scaff.

You have to perform a perfect vaginoplasty on yourself.

In front of you are two silicon breast implants. You was standing on top of weight. You must have them into your skin and sew them back up.

The key is in your testicle. You must give yourself a.

Working Yeah, there's there's a lot there ship. Yeah. Wow, I shouldn't have brought up Saw. This happens every time every time. While you guys were talking.

About Saw, I was checking my Instagram really quick and fucking Dylan mulvaney started following me, and I was having a mini heart attack. WHOA, she was gonna start looking at me discoursing in my stories, but she didn't.

So, yeah, you better behave. I better behave.

I was discoursing about the fucking lesbian bar drama that a bunch of teenagers who have never been to bars seem to have a lot of opinions about.

I have no idea what you're talking about, but we can. I feel like we can put a pen in this. Yeah, we can put a pen in it. Sorry. Yeah, well, okay, go to the game. Okay, you know we.

Made it a full hour. We did not start talking about day fabs or whatever.

No, we yeah, no, we don't. We don't do that. There's certain things that on this show that I know if I bring up is just going to like really like I mean, there's just there's certain trans discord stuff like we're just talking about discourse a few minutes ago, like this is it's so like it's just so toxic because like yet, I have my own opinions on things, but one, like I don't want to like piss off anyone that like is ostensibly on my side. And two

All right, this one reads sometimes you just have to bottom your way to the hop.

I'm gonna say that's a I think it's a letterbox.

What do you think, Carmen, I'm gonna go with that sounds like a letterbox. It is it is. I started off as an easy one. That is a review for Saltburn. Fuck that movie. I knew that I was going to be that all right. I love this girl. She's actually an amazing actor. Fully believe her characters massive props, porn comment or letterbox.

See porn comment on that one.

I'm also gonna go with porn comment. I started jewel off easy and I've only I'm only adding one of these. But I thought this was an interesting theme when I was you need to tell us which porn video that's about listen. Oh, I don't know. I did. I did make a note when it was straight porn, but all the good ones were on straight porn. Because people don't really comment on like gay and trans porn. I feel like they're a little too embarrassed, a shame of shame.

There running thank you for your Yeah, you know, I do what.

I can for it's all for the show. There is a running theme in a lot of transporn where people are like, fuck, I'm gay. Now It's like, you know, damn well, you didn't just like stumble in here, like you know what you're doing, Like you didn't just trip and fall and now you're like, yeah, yeah, you didn't, just like yeah, anyway, hey guys, quick question. I'm stuck

Are there a lot of porn comments that are like those YouTube comments were like I'm a thirteen year old and I know this is real rock and roll.

Yeah, I didn't find I did find some that were like, yeah, who's still jack into this in twenty three or like who's who's busting to this during the pandemic?

Like who in lockdown right now? So, yeah, there's there's a lot of solidarity in the in the porn community, and there's a lot of more like social aspect to it that I like. I think that's cool. It's very reddit, though. I don't like how red it it is. But what are you doing? All right? Uh? They are not getting the cleaning deposit back on that cabin. Oh that's I'll let you answer first.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that's a letterbox review. It's pity.

I'm gonna say the same thing. It is a It is a letterbox review for the film Antichrist. I love that movie. Another Dafoe, Yeah that is I love that movie too. All right, rat Now I'm hungry for food and cock. It's gotta be porn and it's gotta be some type of food.

I'm gonna say.

The letterbox Carmen was right. That was pornography. Was it somebody like getting fucked with food or something? I'm gonna I didn't like write down. I don't remember that. I didn't really write that down. I wrote down the letterbox movie. It was with the movie. I just wrote porn from when it was porn. Uh, this makes me hungry for let's see letterbox. That's gotta be a letterbox review for the menu. This was porn. Okay, Damn, this was porn.

I'm gonna say letterbox.

I'm gonna say, Okay, you're wrong. Correct. That was a that was for the movie Tempopo. Oh I didn't. I never even popped a boner. That is a letterbox review.

I bet there's a letterbox.

It's a letterbox for the movie the Gaspard Away film Love that Sucks? More like? More like enter my ass? Is that in a letterbox review? For Interstellar? Uh? It's Enter the Void another gas Away film. Excellent cinematography, amazing camera work and sound design. Somebody give the actress a Grammy or something. Well done with the production.

Porn porn definitely, Yeah, when they don't say the name, I tried to like work around that, but that was a comment I did write down because this person had a cool name.

This was Alpha Pussy Assassin. Whoa we need comments on pornhub?

Whoa?

That was another thing. I had to solicit most of these from porn Hub, which wasn't a fan of doing. But you know, again, the things I do for the show, all right, this one I really like a lot. It takes a long time to get into, but that's what makes it. It's much like the Phil Collins song Something in the Air Tonight, Letterbox, I'm gonna say porn. That was pornography. That was that was pornography. They were thinking about Phil Collins, what they were dooning. Pussy is just not that interesting?

Is that a letterbox review for Benedetta Liz?

What do you say?

I'm gonna go ahead say letterbox.

Correct. It's for the movie Anatomy of Hell, which there's another movie that I hate. It's way way too French, way too French. Don't like that movie. Life sucks. And then you come it's so.

Pity that, like, my mind immediately goes to letterbox. But I'm gonna say porn.

Your mind is on the right track, and it is. You're right, the pissiness it is. It is a one sentence letterbox review. It's for the film the Todd Solon's film Happiness Wow, which is which is an awesome movie, hilarious film, way more come dialogue than initially expected.

Oh my god, letterbox.

That is also a review for the film Happiness Wow. Uh that movie. Todd Solon's is h such a freak he should be put in jail. But he makes some cool movies.

All right, Uh, she's a Catholic, she'd be shunned in the eyes of God. He's going wait, fuck, I wrote this one weird, fucked.

I'm just gonna skip this one. It was porn, Okay, I wrote that one weird. Uh, I'd kill myself if I wasn't a part of that fire orgy. Letterbox Yeah, which mode is that? That is a letterbox for the film Ken Part another movie made by someone who should be put in jail. That it is not very good. This one was fucked up. I like, don't like this one, but uh, I hope she gets locked in a dungeon and fed dick and balls twenty four seven, three sixty five.

God the phrase dick and balls. I'm gonna say porn.

Yeah, this is fucked up. This is a one and a half star review for the movie Megans. Really fucking stupid.

This person should be put in jail, Like, for real, that's horrible.

I did not see one single person smile.

Porn letterbox.

This is a letterbox review for the Matrix Reloaded. And finally, I feel like this guy wakes up every morning and says to himself in the mirror, this is my swamp. That's gotta be porn.

Porn.

It has to be porn, and in fact it is. Liz. Thank you for joining us, Thank you for playing, Thank you for playing a game. Do you have anything you want to promote? Any any links you want to send, will obviously keep in the show discribtion.

Sure early March. I am going to be well On March six, I'm gonna be at Nighthawk Cinema in the Prospect Park, Nighthawk in Brooklyn showing One of my favorite movie is Pumping Iron to the Women, which is incredible, incredible documentary a about like big strong women and b it's a film that I think has a lot of a lot of queer themes. It's about you know, who defines what femininity is? What is too masculine for a woman? You know what? What? What is? Uh? What is too masculine?

In?

What am I thinking? It's a film with big strong women, and it's a film I.

Think you can enjoy.

You can enjoy as a film about big strong women, but you can also enjoy it as a film that has a lot of trans allegory. And it's incredible.

So yeah, that's great. Yeah, Yeah, go on out go support our girl. Also, yeah, we can the links to your website and everything down there. Follow Liz. She's great, very knowledgeable all our movie heads out there. I hope you enjoyed this one, and Liz, thank you for joining us. It means a lot.

Thank you, No, thank you. It was a lot of fun.

So we just shot a music video this week for Janie's new song on her new album, East Atlanta Sober that comes out pinning.

This fall a summer summer.

Okay, it's going to why did.

I say fall?

I was literally thinking spring and I said fall? Why did I Anyway.

Maybe spring mid spring, early summer. But yeah, new album coming out. I have a new single. For all of my albums, I want to have like one really really heavy, aggressive, like grind corey song on it, and this is the one for that. So it's it's very very aggressive, very short, blistering, angry political and yeah, so I got a bunch of girlies together there to help us tie up an effigy of a man and kill him. And yeah, it's great. I'm very excited about it. I'm very proud of it

But yeah, shout out to her. She's really great. And yeah, especially she did our photos.

Yes she did. Yeah, if you've enjoyed our little like new like promotional like photos and stuff, she did those two. So she's very talented. But yeah, it should be out probably next week. So maybe by next week's episode, we'll have it linked in the description for you to check out.

So yeah, keep an eye on the keep an eye on the Jaming Danger YouTube channel. I'll link that in the description below so that people can subscribe it and whatnot.

Yeah, yeah, do we have any desperate colors that need help? We do have one desperate callers today.

Let's queue it up, he translated Beauty, recent listener of the show love It. I don't really have a problem or like a specific question, just wanted to share something and get ill thoughts. Uh. So, I was assigned mail at birth. I'm currently identifying as non binary, and you know, experimenting with like different ways of like gender expression and

Right?

I I think the thing I wanted to get your thoughts on was a number of them have sort of made comments about you know, unprompted.

Like I knew it. I knew it was like I was about to have.

You considered transitioning you know, your gender? Right? Have you considered, you know, taking hormones which you know? I don't I take a compliment? Yeah, I mean I don't know magic shouldn't I do? You know? There are times I enjoy I enjoy like, you know, dressing up and like more fun clothing, and it's kind of nice when like someone like calls me like ma'am or something in the street.

Yeah.

I'm just curious if like this is like a thing that you heard about.

Or oh, we've heard about it, honey.

I like this question people who have had similar attitude.

I have some thoughts that I want to get.

Out before you do great work with the show.

Okay, so first thing, I know that you're new at this, Please stop saying assigned to mail at birth. We do not need to know that you're a mab afab whatever we can tell. Oh my god, it's just annoying, you know what I mean. The whole point of being non binary is to not like establish your sex in every conversation, So stop doing that please.

And uh.

The other thing I would say is we're not changing our gender, We're changing our sex, and that's an important thing to keep in mind. Hormones change your sex.

We are.

Already i think, confident in our gender prior to that. But it really just comes down to, Yeah, if you feel like you like being referred to as a woman, ma'am moving through life as a woman, and you see yourself moving through life as a woman, then yeah, I think that's something that you should pursue. I also don't think hormones are that serious of a deal where you need to be, like, you know, super afraid of trying

I'd say if you give it like six months or so, you're not really going to get anything that you can't undo, and you'll definitely be able to get like at least like a taste of like what that experience is like and be able to see if you like it or not.

But I will also say that, you know, hormones are just one part of it, you know. I mean, I would also experiment with, like, you know, presenting if that is something that you want to do, because also keep in mind that being a woman really does not come down to the clothes you like to wear. It comes down to how you feel about your sex at the end of the day, you know, like do I you know, and so you can wear whatever clothes you want to wear.

I support that as well. I have some kind of maybe maybe differing opinions from my lovely co host here though, please and that well, for one, I want to address the uh like the trans people making comments, because this is the thing that especially lots of younger trans women like to do where they do this very like r slash egg irl bullshit where they're like, oh, I'm cracking the egg. And I also kind of want to talk

Would say, if you don't, like, if it makes you uncomfortable that trans women that you're making up with or yeah, are saying that too, I think you could you could respond with some I think you're well within your right to respond with some caddie bullshit like oh well, maybe I'm happy with who I am or something like, because that's not their business, Like that's not someone else's business to like be your fucking indochronologists, you know.

Or you're like your fucking therapist. Yeah, yeah, like I think if I think again, though, that's like a thing that you have to decide. Like, I think you need to decide, like, if you're happy with who you are being non binary, then you should be happy with that. That's fine.

But I always encouraged, like, if that's being said, yes, I always encourage people just trying it out if they're curious.

But I was gonna say that too. There would be nothing wrong with like identifying as trans for a while just to try, Like, I don't I don't see anything wrong with that. When I first came out, I said I was like gender queer for like a year, and to be honest, I kind of knew I was trans like the whole time, but it was kind of my way of like dipping my toes in the water before I like actually like dived into the deep end.

Yeah, because you have so many like societal pressures to be a man, you know, if that's what you're born as or whatever. You have so many pressures to be person. So really the first step in becoming a trans woman for us is just like learning to accept that we're not those people for anyone, and we have to be yeah,

Yeah, I wouldn't call you sis quite, but like I think if you're if I think, if you want to experiment with like hormones and stuff and like consider yourself like non binary or like like a thin boy or something like, I mean, as long as you're not like being annoying about it, like that's that's fine. I don't see anything wrong with that. So I would also add like if you want to like kind of keep that like identity the label, but also like maybe experiment with

You know.

It's it's it's because I definitely relate to like the confusion of kind of like when you realize, like when you get that like splinter in your mind and you realize, like, Okay, I'm definitely not like sis. I'm definitely not like being comfortable being referred to as male as a man or whatever. Yeah, and just like having this kind of like culture shock,

Your I'll be honest too, can I can I say, like I'm sorry, well, just to like play Devil's advocate here for the trans women, I will say, you know, uh, just to say, like fucking like fucking trans women does not make you trans, you know, and being trans. You know, there's other and I can't we'd have to play it back. But I can't remember if this person is even necessarily questioning their gender or if other people are just questioning

Gonna crack the eg.

But honestly, it's like we just need to accept that like nobody determines anyone's gender or secon expect themselves.

Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, this is something we've talked about a lot in regards to like, yes the Kirk. Yeah, that's a classic example because it's something that like really goes against the kind of modus operanda being trend. Yeah, you're deciding for someone else, like like that's not like that's you can't do that, and that's something that I will

It just depends on you know, you gotta just break through all those barriers of like I don't know just what other people around you expect to you.

I mean I feel like one of the big things is like, oh, like I'm gonna like sterilize myself. But it's like it sounds like you're gay already, so I mean it's kind of like God already did that for you. I mean you can also like you could come in a ziplock bag and keep it in your freezer, like it's you can always do. I've heard that works. Oh, I've got an ice tray full come from when I was three at your house. Oh, it's clearly labeled it's clearly labeled not ice. Something else, sir, it's not ice.

Oh my god, I'm terrified. I have a friend who keeps a fucking dead cat in their freezer, and I have a friend who keeps the fucking ice tray of com in their freezer.

This is I don't Actually I do sometimes kind of wish that I, like save my sperm, but it's a very very expensive to do in Georgia. Yeah, don't you have to like pay rent on that? Yeah? No, it's really really it's like a monthly fee or some shit. Yeah, I'm not sure. I know that. Like just like doing the deposit is like incredibly expensive. It's like, I'm the one who's coming.

I didn't want to wait.

I didn't want to wait. I was like, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna start hormones. And I think having kids like stupid. I'm just gonna say it. Also, I'm adopted. I could adopt.

Exactly my point.

And also I've come to realize I'm more into like long term relationships with men and uh just making out with girls because they're pretty. But uh, yeah, can we really quick talk about do you know about the twitch streamer guy Finn girl be, I don't know. I mean she's not. I think I think they're in any pronouns person. So, but I think that's an interesting like cultural tie into

Can I be mean?

For a second, I watched the coming out video and I was I'm very happy for.

I was shocked that they were like Australian or whatever. That was hard. I think, oh god, which is like even worse. I thought they were America.

It's like even harder to get HRT and like, if you're in America, try it out. But anyway, England, it's a fucking arduous process to get.

HRT over there. I'm sure.

But it's all camera angles. Can I just say with Finn it's all that camera angle.

It is the so it is all this.

Camera angle and I'm going to hold my my laptop up like this.

That is all it is.

Because when Finn shoots to camera, there was like a couple of shots where he she they were shooting a camera like face on like this, bricky, bricky, bricky.

Wow. I don't really care about you being means of herd because I'll be honest, there is someone I'm fine with Finn. There was someone I was aware of on Twitter for a long time because they there was a lot of this is they they like, yes, like rage bait, I want to get to that. But there was lot of trans people that were very like annoying about him, Yeah, because like they were annoyed that this is like I mean, honestly,

That's when I started to I don't care be a fimboy, be a Twitter, be a whatever. But the rage bait stuff at a time when got trans women are being murdered, it's just goofy, you know what I mean.

It's insane. It's goofy. And it shows a really like detached level of like privilege of like like not realizing that like I'm like making like content off of something that like gets trans people fucking killed. Like that's insane to me, I know.

Yeah, And that's when I started to like was like I don't know about that. But then I want to say, you know, I don't want to be armchair psychologists here because that's not our job. But some of that, I feel like comes down to like internalized trans misogyny. You learn for so long that trans women are so disgusting they are the most vile, like worst person, type of

But no, I think I know what you're getting a yeah, like being like, oh, well, I want to like cross dress or I want to like present myself like this because I like doing it. Yeah, but in a way to like kind of like misdirect from like me saying that I like this and I'm comfortable with it, I say, I'm doing it for a joke. Yes, yes, it's Halloween. I I had to dress up as it's like I don't.

When I went to Alta, we used to have this creepy old guy who'd be like, hey, I lost a bet with my wife and she she wants me to go out this weekend dressed up like a woman. Do you do like make up for drag there at Alta?

And I would be like, yeah, you can use makeup for anything. Yeah.

I'm like in my head like cancer, Like I'm like thinking to myself, like, dude, first of all, you there was never a bet. You're just a fucking weirdo and you want some type of like yeah wait, yeah that's awesome.

Yeah.

So a lot of it, I feel like comes down to like just like internalized trans misogyny and just like a hatred for a trans woman that like I can't be I can't be that.

So yeah you know, yeah true, So I guess to the club, Yeah, I guess. I guess we can tie that back to uh, to the listener's question a little bit, assuming there's still like an uncertainty there, which I'm not entirely sure if there is or not. That's something you have to like also kind of like deal with for yourself.

Go back and listen to our very first episode together when we talk.

All about that. We've actually talked about a lot of those Yeah. So I don't know, I like that question, and I like this listener. And if you uh, I don't know, if you come to some sort of conclusion or something, I'd like to hear back from you, even if we just like play it off, even if we just play it off air like I would like to, I don't know, I care about you. Yeah, yeah, let us know how things are going. Yeah, And if you

I think we did great today. I think we gave I gave some constructive criticism. I gave some genuine love and care and concern.

Yeah, I was very motherly of Yille. Yeah.

All right, y'all, thanks for listening to this week's episode of Beauty Translated. Catch us next week we're going to be speaking with oh h oh erm Yeah, we're having a real political episode next week.

Oh yeah, another another smart one. Yeah no, I'm very excited for next week's episode.

Two.

We have josh Aka et Injermentum from Twitter substack. You've probably maybe heard him do appearances on Chabou Trapals and

Actually it made me feel better. I went in feeling very doom and gloom, but then at njer Josh he put a lot of things in perspective for me that made me feel a lot better and really made me feel just kind of better about not covering all the stupid legislation bullshit anymore, because it really is just intended mostly to be rage rage bait.

We cover a lot of stuff in this episode that we don't normally talk about. So if you've been kind of waiting to hear us weigh in on Florida and Ohio and all these presidential nominee yea, all these hell places and hell topics, listen next week's episode. Those is gonna be a fun one. Yeah, it's a good one.

Thanks y'all.

Thank you, say beautiful bye bye bye. Thank you for listening to Beauty Translated Beauty Translated is hosted by me Carmen Laurent and Janie Danger, produced by Kurt Garon and Jess Cranchich, so special thanks to Ali Perry and Ali Cantor. Our theme music is done by Aaron Kauffman and Beauty Translated is proud to be a part of the Outspoken network from iHeart Podcasts. For more iHeart podcast visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.