One thing I don't think people really realize about transman is we lose our first queer affirmations. If not all, but most of us, I would say start out in the lesbian community.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Beauty Translated. Keeping with a theme of talking to guys, this week, my guest is Blake Dotson, a transman based out of Seattle, who I came to know by his Instagram handle a Queer Cowboy. In this episode, we discuss Blake's upbringing in the Pacific Northwest, his work in oncology, doing drag on horseback, the horses that are a part of his life, the concept of being partially stealth, and trans discourse from the
trans mail perspective. Please enjoy my conversation with the lovely Blake Dotson. Hello, Beauty trans listeners. This week, I am here with yet another friend that I made through that horrible little app that we call Instagram. But I've made so many wonderful friends through there. He is known online as a queer cowboy, but his name is Blake Dodson. Blake, Welcome to the pod. How's it going.
It's going well, pretty much rolled out of bed since it's my day off today.
And you're you're over there in Seattle, is that right?
Yeah?
How's the weather?
It has been beautiful up until today it decided to show its Seattle so where it's crappy and rainy outside.
Well beautiful. That's why I want to move there one day. Well, Blake, can you give the listeners a little bit of an introduction to who you are and maybe even tell us about the backstory of your Instagram name.
I am from Seattle, not from the city itself, but from a little farmtown known for soccer, which is weird. It's in the middle of nowhere, but the biggest thing it has is it's soccer community. I didn't play soccer growing up. I played baseball, and so, yeah, rural, small farmtown. It has more gas stations and churches than anything.
Yeah, so Washington sort of sounds like Atlanta in that way where you say, like Seattle is like very liberal. It's like the blue bubble, I guess. And then like everything outside of Seattle is very conservative. I'm assuming.
Yep, there's still Trump signs all over everything, but I've lived in the city for a couple of years now, and then yeah, I guess some story about my Instagram name is obviously very gay, and I appreciate that cowboy culture does not acknowledge how gay it is and found some nuance in that. And I was like, well, I'm just I call myself a queer cowboy because I'm really gay, and I appreciate like cowboy culture is like naturally Rhinestoned's the way I like to think about it, but they
don't like to think that. So that's kind of where I found the source of it.
Yeah, and it feels like there has been kind of like a revival I guess of like the queerness of more country or rural roots like that. So it's really cool. I love your page, I love your content. I love seeing you with the horses and all of that kind of stuff. Can you tell us a little bit about the horses?
So I used to have too. I had Ted and Fred, and I did not plan that. I had ten first, and then Fred was a gift to me from an old boss of mine that I used to clean her stalls because that's what I did for a long long time. And after my last show horse passed from cancer and she gifted me him as a companion for its head.
I had the two of them for five years, and then I moved into Seattle, so I can't afford to board too because PASTI living is crazy, and so I just have Ted now, and I've had him for eight years. He's the only child I will ever have.
Yeah that's a big child.
Yeah he's fourteen hundred pound toddler. But yeah, I just have Ted. I've shown competitively for my whole life. Basically, I do discipline called Western pleasure, and to a gay person that probably sounds like something else.
I love that.
Yeah, But basically it's like pageantry on horseback. To look really disciplined, everything has to be groomed in pretty we go slow. We don't do the barrel racing or any of that. It's all slow, pretty.
Uncontrolled, slow, pretty uncontrolled. Okay, yeah I can relate.
Yeah, it's very much like, you know, like drag centric. That's what cracks me up. There's very much a tie between like horse showing and drag.
Like that culture of like pageantry.
Yeah, yeah, I do the version of it that's probably the most similar to drag as well. Before I transitioned, I was showing presenting as female, and it's very much like doing drag on horseback because you do all the rhinestones, do your makeup. Here, everything is very draggy. And I've shown some of the pictures of like show wear or retire to some drag queens, you know, and they're like, wow, I would do that, and I'm like, yeah, I know.
I didn't never realize how much pageantry was involved there. But tell us about like the connection between horse shows and like drag culture. Is there any more overlap there.
Even how much the horse It's kind of dragged for them because ye gets all of his whiskers clipped, his ears clipped, going from springtime to summertime, he gets a full body clip, so his coat is short and shiny, and he gets bathed about three times before a show. We call it banding, where their main is in tiny little ponytails, like all the way across, so it's all like together and groomed, and then he gets hair extensions as well. Wow. The first time I showed that to
my girlfriend, she lost her mind. Was like, oh my god, he has a freaking wig.
And I'm like, yeah, he has a piece, yeah, a little pony piece.
Yeah, it's literally a piece that goes in his tail. That's like as long as his tail, and it's basically literally yeah, to just fill it out so it looks prettier.
So yeah, he's doing drags.
Wow.
I am never going to look at a horse show the same ever again, knowing how much goes into the drag of it all these and the performer as well. That's amazing. Thank you for that. Yeah, I want to move on to we haven't mentioned this yet, but you work in a cancer clinic, correct?
I do. My official title is a Certified Nuclear Medicine Technologist, which is really just fancy for doing medical scanning. My degree allows me to work and a lot of different kinds of imaging, but I took this job that is strictly cancer imaging.
What drove you to go into cancer work in do oncology.
Probably from my last horse having cancer and we didn't know how bad it was until it was bad. And I am lucky enough to not have a lot of cancer in my family, so that's not where it comes from. But horses are an integral part of my life, and I guess that's what you know was the driving force.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, And I'm really sorry to hear about losing your horse. That way. That's horrible to lose anyone that way, much less an animal that's a part of your family. So one thing I wanted to ask you was have you encountered other trans people in your work in cancer and do you feel like there's any way that trans people get left out of conversations about cancer.
Oh yeah, definitely. I don't have any trans coworkers, or a very little amount of career coworkers. In fact, I've never actually had one. I've just met other people, like especially going through school and that kind of stuff, But I do have very few, but they are there trans and queer patients, and that is the main reason that I went into healthcare is it's getting larger as we age in this generation, but there are there are elders
out there, and not even some elders. I have a trans paper that is my age that has an aggressive throat cancer that I've been dealing with through their treatments, And yeah, that is probably the reason that I chose to go into healthcare. And back to touching on kind of how small the population is, the hardest part for me is when I do get the very few stragglers left from the HIV pandemic where they have HIV related to them fomo. Those ones are usually where I go home cry and drink.
Yeah. Yeah, that's hard, but I mean it has to be meaningful that somebody who actually cares, genuinely is there treating them. I was just going to ask you, do you feel like a lot of the people you work with are like older and like of a different generation. I know when I was a teacher, for instance, I worked with like tons of older people who are like maybe a little bit more conservative and stuff, and nurses sometimes can be that way. Is that something you encounter.
Yeah, definitely. Luckily in Seattle it's not so hardcore, but they are still very much a big band of straight white people that they have no idea what my actual life outside of work is like, and that kind of stuff our fair issues. I had an accounter one time where a gender queer patient I think came through and they didn't want their sex specified, and it became a big deal, like, hey, do we scan this patient male or female? And I was like, no, it really doesn't matter.
The radiologist is going to interpret it as a body no matter what, So it doesn't freaking matter. And I don't like being out at work so much, so I didn't like, you know, center it back to myself and be like, well, I'm a queer and transperson. I don't like drawing attention to myself at work in that way. So I just did my best not to make it about me. But I just had to make them see this is something that people deal with, and you just have to you make yourself see it for what it is.
You can't just like beat around the push about it.
I can especially relate to feeling like conflicted about those types of things in a work environment, because how do you bring that up? Do you bring it up? It's always conflicting. All right, listeners, We're going to take a quick break and when we come back more from my conversation with Blake, and we're back. I wanted to get a trans man's perspective on inner community discourse, so I
asked Blake to share his thoughts with us. Well, Blake, you and I obviously we met on Instagram, and you know on Instagram I have I have a reputation of being a ship poster. I'm trying to change that. I'm turning on there or a new leaf. I'm being a nice girl. Twenty twenty three. I'm day one. I'm doing really well so far. But you know, I just sometimes we have a lot of opinions, right, so sometimes we
get into the the discourse. One thing I notice is that a lot of the trans inner community discourse is led by a lot of white trans women, and we don't often get people of colors perspectives in there, or even like trans mail perspectives in there. So I wanted to ask you, as a trans man, what is your take on a lot of the inner community discourse that we face.
My perspective as a transman, I don't often get to vote my opinion, and neither do a lot of other transmen because in the interpersonal part of the community, like especially trans women often tell us well, you're a man, so shut up, and yeah, that's pretty much how they address it. But also we have a different socialization, I guess, compared to everyone else, especially a lot of us that didn't transition until our twenties or later on in life.
We were socialized as women growing up, and so there is this hard thing for us where we're thrown in the middle of Okay, well you identify as a man now, so these people are going to perceive you as a man and tell you to shut up, and you don't get to have an opinion because you are a man. And then it's like, well, wait, I'm dealing with the same discrimination as you, so like my opinion is valid.
But since we're thrown in that middle part, I don't see a lot of transmen pushing to voice their opinion because they're constantly fighting against other trans women or transphems, being like, well, you'd identify as man and that's toxic masculinity or whatever, so shut up and don't tell us how we feel or what you know.
Obviously I don't advocate for that, but it's interesting because I think it's like almost projecting the way that society treats us as trans women onto trans men now that they're men. And I think we just need to kind of like smash that all together, because you know, I've touched a little bit about this on the show. No gender identity is more superior than the other sis people, trans people, trans women, trans men, all of that, Like
MBI's all of that, Like no one gender identity. It's just almost like religion, right, like no one religion has the final say. But yeah, it's interesting to me, because we as trans women face that from sometimes CIS women who tell us like not to have masculine our male traits, So it's wild for us to then reflect that back onto the trans men in our community. And then there's also like I'm in the community where an event will
be like, no CIS men welcome. You know, I don't know if that's something that you've ever encountered, but like, if you're a trans man who passes really, really well and people assume that you're SIS, then you know, how is that going to make you feel?
I encounter that a lot because I've passed one hundred percent of the time. There's no one that ever assumes that I'm not SIS. And I deal with that in all aspects basically of my life is that I deal with that in the assists world, that they think that I'm just a CIS man and have all this privilege.
I'm white passing, but I'm not necessarily white. I have a lot of Native heritage, so a lot of people, yeah, just assume I'm this CIS white man, So what does my opinion matter because I'm so privileged and all this stuff, right, And then I deal with it also in the inner workings of the queer community entry community. Because I'm a by transman and dealing with gay men and whatever. I get that part of discrimination because I'm a trans band.
And then one thing that I have been talking about a lot with people online is that one thing I don't think people really realize about transman is we lose our first queer affirmations. If like, not all, but most of us, I would say, start out in the lesbian community and once you know, we come out, we're pushed out of that and basically kind of are abandoned from that, and so we lose the first queer affirmations and sense
of community that we have. And that is one big problem that I have with you talking about people thinking their identity is superior to the other is, you know, we're the most oppressed in that kind of stuff, so only our opinion matters and everyone else needs to shut up. And that's kind of what I feel, as a transman has been happening to us, is that this part of our perspective is being lost because we're being silenced in
that way. And that's kind of my biggest thing on what I'm having a problem with.
And you know, sometimes even I'll admit, like I'm guilty of playing up just like how much trans women go through and all of that, you know, I'm guilty of acknowledging how just how much trans men equally go through as well, because transphobia affects everyone in lots of different ways. And as you said, you get it from gay men, you get it from trans women in the community, and so it's like, what is community, you know at that point.
Yeah, And that's one thing, Like even some of my friends have mentioned this to me, that they don't see me having a lot of other trans male friends and I never really have because of that. And honestly, from what I get from most of the trans mass support groups off board is that most of us don't really feel like we have a sense of community, Like most of the time I don't, and it's hard to find
because a lot of us feel that way. And this is just my perspective and what I've lived through, especially coming from a small town and that kind of stuff, is that it's hard to find community as a transman, especially like I've said about not being a lesbian anymore, and so like we lose that grounding from women and then other transmen, A lot of us like to stay stealth, so they don't talk about it or anything. So yeah, for us, it's like where do we go?
Yeah, and it's that last part you mentioned is actually one of the reasons why I've had a hard time getting transmen on the show is because I know transmen that are stealth that wish to like stay that way completely, and I respect that. But yeah, there's a lot of reasons for that. Something I wanted to touch on that you said there. Does having a partner who is a trans woman? Does that at all affirm your journey or your experience? Is that comforting to you at all?
It isn't. It isn't. Especially I never thought I would be in at fort relationship, especially when I was single
and that kind of stuff. I was not seeking it out, especially for me, you know, being mostly stealth in my life because like I mentioned before, I don't really talk about this kind of stuff or do interviews or any of that, because for the most part, I do live my life pretty stealth, like I'm not out of work, except for the ladies in the office figure out that I'm gay, so they like that, but they don't know
that trans. But yeah, in my relationship. It doesn't really do much for me affirmation wise, you know, in my transnist or maleness and that kind of stuff, but it does do things I never really thought it would. Just being able to relate to somebody else who is trans and understands the same things that I go through and that kind of stuff, and I never thought it would be nice to have the same shot day as someone else.
That's nice and cute sometimes, but it does doesn't do the things for me that I thought it was.
Going to do. And that's understandable because, as you said, there are times right now, like even I'm conflicted with the fact that I'm so out and open about how I'm trans because prior to even making this podcast, I was I guess there's not really like a word for it, but it's something that I think we should talk about
because it's something that a lot of people experience. But it's like partially stealth, I guess, and that's being like stealth at work, stealth to my entire partners like family and friends, and all of that aspect of being actually stealth. That can be conflicting because yeah, sometimes I have to have people to talk about these things. Too, you know, but it's hard to when you are living that life.
It's kind of like good and bad because sometimes you're also like less absorbed in it and you don't care about it as much. And then part of you is like, well, I do need someone to talk about this.
Also, I very much relate to that. I'm like, oh, I don't need anyone, this is just me and that kind of stuff. But then there are those parts of you it's like I do need someone to talk to about this, And I think that's kind of unique to the trans male experiences. All of us kind of go through that. You know, I'm a man, I don't need anyone or that's kind of what I've experienced with the testosterone is that it makes me way less emotional. So I'm like, yeah, very much, I don't need anyone to
talk to. I can deal with this myself. And then you get to that point it's like, oh, I need to talk to someone about this. Does anyone relate to me that kind of stuff? And I guess that is what is kind of special about having a translationship is that you do have those points where it's like, Okay, this person gets me on a fundamental level.
Yeah, absolutely, because, like I have a sist partner. If I bring up any of this trans discourse to my sister partner, he's like, what the fuck are you talking about? And I'm just like, look, this is some economy he doesn't even have. He doesn't even have social media, so he's like what And I think you know you and I that's like one thing that I'm glad that we
connected over because you were one of those people. Like, even though I say I hate Instagram, you know because it really does ruin my mental health, it connects me with really awesome people like you, and we have these really cool conversations that make me realize, Okay, I'm not alone. Somebody understands what the fuck my perspective is, and so I appreciate it for that. I appreciate the horrible little
app for that. And I'm glad that we followed each other because I need to know more about about the trans mail perspective myself, because there aren't really, even in my area, a lot of trans guys, and there's a ton of trans women here. It's crazy. So it's like the doll Capital.
It's interesting how different regions do that. And that's another thing that a lot of people don't really think about how transmit integrate into society, because like, there are a lot of transmen in Seattle, and I know of them, but I don't speak to them, especially the ones that I don't necessarily relate to their experience, because in Seattle, something we've been messy in the DMS about as the
non binary experience. But in Seattle there's a lot of non binary transmen and I'm a very binary male and I really don't relate to that, And it's kind of one thing I also think is another discourse in our community that needs to be dealt with, is that there is a big difference. I think more people are finally starting to talk about it, that there is a big difference between non binary and binary trans people. And I
think it is especially pertinent to men. That I don't think a lot of people are thinking about is that No, I'm a man, period, Like there's nothing else to me. I don't identify with any of the you know, envy
or trans as. They say, no, like, yeah, that's none of that is pertinent to me, And for me in Seattle, that feels really isolating for me, and I haven't really seen a lot of other areas, I guess, especially like for people that are out because they don't want to be out, especially people that like live in the South and like Texas and your area and that kind of stuff. It's like, why would they? Which I totally get it.
There's probably so many transmen here that I just don't even like, you know, they just ourself and I've never even thought about it. But yeah, I'm sure that is
very isolating. And I want to ask you about that too, because this is something that I notice, like with that whole kind of language, this shift in language that we've been seeing, and I think it's perfectly fine, like there's no harm being done, and saying that the trans experience and the non binary experience are different experiences, both valid, but different experiences. And I just think at this point we need to refocus on the people who are transitioning,
whether that be socially or medically whatever. And what I find interesting is I feel like there's a lot more people that identify as trans mask on that spectrum than people who identify as trans femme on my end of the spectrum. Do you notice that too, and why do you think that is?
I do? And one thing that I think a lot of people don't talk about because they don't really give a space to is that a lot of these people that identify as trans mask and then they don't do any performative mass presenting traits or any of that kind of stuff. Like a lot of these people that are still feminine presenting but want to claim hate him pronouns or they hear or whatever they're doing, are rejecting being identified as women because of the way that they're treated
in society. And that is fine, Like, if that's the way that you know, you're dealing with trauma around that and that kind of thing. But I think people need to talk about that more because I think these people aren't necessarily trans identified. They're just dealing with their own social traumas in society, and that piece of it I think is inherently harmful to the trans experience, because no,
not all of us are doing that. And then, like something that I've dealt with is the people that have been transphobic towards me have said, oh, you only identify as a man because you must have been raped or you must have had all these traumatic experiences in your life. No, that's not why identify as a man. I just am. That's why that I've always been, And that is what
I think needs to be talked about. Because we're not identifying as men because something bad happened to us, or we just don't want to be women, or it's too hard to be a woman, or that kind of stuff. That is what I think needs to be talked about. In the differentiation of the trans maile.
Experience, that is a very distinct differentiation. And it's hard, like when we have these conversations because like it's hard to be like it's just remind people we're trying to be as nuanced as possible, because there is a difference between somebody who plans to wants to make an effort to transition socially or medically, and then somebody who just wants like a switch up of the way that they identify.
That is like the transphobic argument against trans men is like, well, you're just trying to escape, you know, the female experience or whatever. And like we say, with certain people of the trans female experience, everyone's different. It's all case by case and each person is their own unique case and it's hard to talk about with a broadbrush, but Ultimately, those of us that are transitioning socially medically are having a totally different lived experience.
Yeah, it's something I think about a lot because it's something that's been used against me quite a bit, especially where I come from, so not actually being in Seatutle outside of Seattle, it is very red and conservative and small town vibes, and that's where I come from. And so I came out in twenty thirteen, which was totally different time than what we're living in right now. I didn't know what a trans person was. I had nothing
on TV. My parents are the straightest middle aged white people you can imagine, So I had no exposure to anything clear whatsoever except for when I hit middle school. And that's when everything kind of changed for me and came up in a time where, yeah, people didn't know what trans was. They barely understood what being gay was really and there was no language for it. And that's what I think is so interesting to living in now ten years later, is that it's like an attack on
everything I know in a way. And that's what I think is the biggest distinction between trans and non binary people is that the basis of it is gender dysphoria, And for someone to tell me that I'm transphobic for thinking you need to have gender dysphoria to be trans is wildly interesting to me because in a way, why else would you transition, you know, especially being trans mask.
That is my opinion on the biggest difference which we in terms of non binary men is that if you don't experience gender dysphoria in that way, why would you fight to transition to mail especially for the social controversial things that we deal with as if you don't feel that sense of dysphoria and the sense of you're not a woman and you want to distance yourself from all of that kind of stuff, That is where I find the biggest discourse in the transmansque experience is that these
transmansk envs that are like, well, I'm not a woman, but I'm not a man either, but I want you to treat me as such as a man. That's where it gets the hardest for me. And then being limped into that whole situation as trans mask and that kind of stuff, that's where I get lost in it.
Yeah, lost in the sauce, and we start reclaiming our roots again, are transsexual roots once again, you know, And I think that it's important to have that distinction of language, to be able to speak about our experiences so that the average Joe Schmoe can understand our experience as well, because I think if we lump it all together, it just becomes really confusing for people, especially trans people. I'm confused,
you know. And I've been like transitioning for like more than fifteen years, and I say that like I'm trying to understand every day. I'm trying to understand, like truly, truly, truly, because I want us to be able to move to a point of peace. And really, what I want us to do is just be able to combat this horrible wave of legislation and transphobia and violence that we've been facing. But I would love it if we could do that with people being honest about how oppressed they really are.
Maybe we should take a quick break and we'll be back with some closing thoughts from Blake, And we're back, all right, Blake. I really appreciate you for coming on sharing your perspective because I do believe that more transmen need to be heard, and I'm trying to make an effort to do that. Also, I'm sorry that being interviewed is not your favorite thing. That I really really appreciate you for coming on today. It was a fantastic chat.
Yeah. Thanks, I appreciate you trying to do that, because I do think that it is an issue that a lot of us aren't being heard or given the space to do this kind of thing, especially when it comes to like we talked about the kind of what people are viewing as the hierarchy of oppression in our own community, which isn't a thing, but they're making it out to be exactly exactly.
We create like this artificial dichotomies and artificial hierarchies, and then they become like this thing for people to gain social clout from, and it's like kind of crazy because we're all just looking for community. Again, thank you for coming on. Can you tell people where to find you? Follow you? Do you want people to find you and follow you?
You're really cute to be honest, because I also don't care about social media. The only thing I use is the Badman's app on Instagram, which you mentioned per Cowboy. Yes, I never found out how to use Twitter, and I've got that I did it because that is accessful something else agreed.
I don't even want to get involved, and I was just talking to somebody else about this earlier today, Like if I was on Twitter, didn'ld be a shit show. Okay. Anyway, we'll close out there. Thank you so much for coming.
On, Blake, Yeah, thanks for having me.
Beauty Translated is hosted by me Carmen Laurent and produced by Kurt Garon and Jessica Crime Chicch with production assistance from Jennifer Bassett. Special thanks to Ali Perry and Ali Cantor for their support. Our theme song is composed by Aaron Kaufman. Beauty Translated is proud to be part of the Outspoken network from iHeart Podcasts. For more iHeart Podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.