Beating The Book: Ray Marino, Oddsmaker, Bookmaker.eu

at one of the big off shores. Ray Marino from Bookmaker dot EU was kind enough to sit with me for an hour. There were audio difficulties early, but we got them worked at and Ray was super honest. Answered a bunch of questions about a bunch of different things, pandemic specific and more macro about how things are going over there at Bookmaker. Just some fabulous insights that you really won't get anywhere else, from table tennis to the stock market to what percentage of betters actually win, on

and on and on. A rare insight. Ray Marino from Bookmaker exclusively on the Beating the Book podcast. Enjoy It's a numbers game with your host Ji Alexander you want those to believe in that limits. It is a numbers game right here at Vista, the Vegas Stats and Information Network, the Sports Betting Network. Good morning to you, Gil Alexander live from San Francisco. Thanks for tuning again, once again appreciated. UH, and we are efforting to have an exclusive this morning.

This is a real pleasure, UM, A rare glimpse from behind the desk of an offshore book UH. An offshore bookmaker going to join us this morning from bookmaker dot eu. His name is Ray Marino, so we look forward to having him on the show. I've got a bevy of questions, UH for Ray. On the way, Danny Burke is in studio in Las Vegas. Danny, are you there in studio with us? Yes, sir, I am here. How you doing, Gil, I'm doing very well, man, UM. I have so much to ask Ray. It's it's ridiculous I could do. I

could do three hours with him. Sadly we'll only get the balance of this hour. UM. But just about the pandemic where they had all worried when the pandemic hit, all these reports we've heard about the sports um or, the sort of not even sports, but simulations that have garnered so much handle. Are those true? To what extent? Are they true? All these random things that they've been booking, like the stock market, which I bet on a daily basis.

Um over there, I'd love to find out the thinking behind all this things from during the football season, like the instant replay market, which I've talked about on this show so many times, um, And just from then sacking off just macro questions for him, the things that never get answered, um, such as who actually wins? Like what's

your percentage of actual winning bettors? And if you were truly taking truth serum and got to got to say to someone coming into the betting game today in sports betting, is sports betting dead? Or there are really certain things you can beat? Um? So all of those can't wait to talk to him? Man, Yeah, absolutely looks like we got him on the line now, so you should be good to fire away. Well there you go. How about that to the magic of technology? Ray. Welcome to the show,

Ray Marino Oddsmaker over at bookmaker dot eu. First of all, Ray, thank you for joining us. Um, it's a real pleasure, man, I appreciate you doing this. Are you used to do in media at all, not a time I'll talk to people, but as a whole can I stay under the radar in general? But I'm not at a few times. You've done it a few times, all right, I'm gonna ask the folks back in the studio are we hearing that audio okay? Or we can we make out raised answers?

Or is it a little too echo? Because I want people to get the benefit of the answer, I'll have to repeat. Well, I'll see what I can decipher. Ray. Let me start with the Let's start with the present day, and then we'll work our way back to two bigger

picture items. But the present day during the global pandemic, I guess the first question would be and and and Recognizing that this is for those who are unfamiliar and were just tuning into this show for you know, and it might not be familiar with things that are done globally, You're you're a massive book, You're a massive operation. This is not some flimsy operation going on. But we're even were you even at all worried when the pandemic hit

and when sports started to cancel? Was there even something with you and your team that was like, um, this could get ugly, like we've really got to get creative here. Oh for sure. Um No, it was terrify. It's just anytime you have any kind of change in general, it's a little scary. And this is this is just a thing I said, A pandemic pile was terrifying. That annoying.

It's still scary. Um, we've found the way. It's a five for now, but we've had a very really credative and terrified the future still I am you know, if we listen antually, I don't have explode ever again, So it's kind of scary. I think we'll get past it and think in pretiful of mon still start seems some actually sports again. But until it happens, I'm gonna be able on any needles all for sure. Yeah, Um, I don't know. I'm gonna sort of rely on Danny backing

studio there dinner. Are you picking up on the audio there? Because I could. I could barely make it out and I don't want the answers to get lost on the audience. Yeah, I think we're gonna try to reset it. We'll get that,

let's do so apologies. Well, yeah, we'll start that again at some point because what he did say, by the way, just on that one is he was they were terrified, which you know a lot of people who uh, a lot of people might be surprised by that because you would think something like that, there there's nothing that could that could bring down an operation like that, And not that uh, I think they were on the cusp of being brought down, um, but the fact that they were,

that they were worried like how long can this last? Uh? For us? How long could this go on? And the challenge of keeping it sustained for as long as they have? Will effort? Ray again, let us effort. Let's effort. Ray Marino from bookmaker dot EU again, Ray, do we have you? How do you sound this time? How you hope? Okay, I don't know if we sound better, but we'll give it one more go. Let me just I'll ask again you you were you did have some some trepidation as

the pandemic hit. Have you been shocked? Well, first of all, how does that meeting go? Do you get together and say, all right, we've got an ad lib here? And have you been shocked by the success of the maddened simulations of other things that you've done? Yeah? The traders all basically got together when I started start trying to come up with ideas, what what sells, what can what can we possibly what product can we possibly put out that

people will be interested in? Um and uh, the stock market came up, the Madden simulations came up early, but we were a little hesitant because we're a little scared that people would think that they weren't on the up and up, that they weren't real. So so we found a third party provided to do with Prime Time Action and now we've developed a relationship with them, and it's

it's gone. Well, there's still some there's some people out there of a skeptical rightly so, but it's just funny when when you deal with video games, you know, it's it's scary. But I mean, I could just say that we would never do anything that wasn't completely on the up and up, and uh and no, the the interest for it is mind blowing. Um, we're not making anything near what we would be making if it was normal sports,

but um, we're keeping the lights on. Um. It's uh, it's been it's been a it's been a crazy experience because we're trying to come up with numbers for this stuff. So we're in back rooms running simulations on these games, trying to trying to formulate at least some some form of reasonable number and uh, and then put it up and then moved moved the number on on action like

like you would do any yellow sporting event. Um. But uh, I would say we were really vulnerable the first month and a half of so if somebody was ahead of the game and had some data built on the we had some pretty bad numbers up there. And now they're getting a little tougher to beat. I'm sure we still have some open and some holes to attack, but they're they're closing quickly because we're building dat or as we

run more games and run more simulations in the backgrounds. Yeah, it's interesting to me because even as you say that, right, even as you say we would only do things on the up and up, obviously, Ray, there's going to be people out there who are going to doubt, you know, the crowd that is always going to be anti bookmaker, and they're gonna doubt that you know, what you're saying

is honest. But you know, I think it's a fascinating psychology thing for betters because there was I I know some folks who were betting your sims and they were having some success early, like you said, when there might have been an edge to be had, And then there was a day where I think there was a double header of very strange finishes. I want to say it was on a Sunday, but don't hold me to that might have been a Saturday. I think it's a weekend day.

WHI there's a couple of really odd time management uh situations later game, and people will sort of chuckle because they're like, well, it's a simulation. But you make the point, which I think is a good one I've heard you make before, which is, listen, yeah, there's there's gonna be some time management issues in real life football too. And I always sort of say with the NFL, we spend

most of our NFL seasons complaining about coaching decisions. So in that respect, I guess, um, it's not that much different than real life football. Is. Here's I'm an analytics guy as a whole, and every Sunday during the regular season, I'm cursing this coach. I'm cursing that coach for not calling the time out of here, calling the time out too fast, punt instead of going forward, whatever the case. Well,

these maddened simulations truly taken to another level. I mean, the people who wrote this game is much time as they spent on making graphics unbelievably super, they really dropped the ball in the logic of the game, and um, they just and so when they do something and there's even glitches in the game. They had the other day, a team kicked the field goal on second down with eighteen seconds left to win the game. They were down by two. They lounged up for a field goal with

eighteen seconds left. Nothing wrong with that. Well, the field goal gets blocked and the kicking team recovers it and instead of them giving the ball to the other teams since they actually kicked the ball, they called it third down. The team ran to play, then they kicked the field goal, won the game, and the chat went absolutely But it's just a glitch in the game, and there's been a couple of them another, you know that there's a couple of different things the game does that. Um, it's a

video game. So you know, we had to put in our rules that we're not responsible for any you know, glitches in the game. And what not as long as the game plays out to its entirety. It's action. Um. But you know I read that I don't get involved in the chats because I don't want it to occupy me. But I watch the chats on the site, and and there's people fighting for us, and there's people let's say, this is how does that happen? This? How does this happen?

How does this team beat this team? And I mean, let me step in for a second because I gotta get a commercial here. We'll come back, we'll continue this. I want to find out about the handle of SIMS. We'll get beyond that to stock market other things that you're booking during the pandemic. It's a numbers game right here at Visa the Sports Betting Network. Welcome back to a numbers game with you, Alexander. A numbers game at Visa and exclusively brought to you by manscape dot Com.

Skill Alexander live in San Francisco on the Sports Betting Network. Chris Andrews still to come on the show, Michael Lombardi as well. We have a rare exclusive look uh into the mind of an oddsmaker bookmaker dot EU, namely Ray Marino. So I want to reset because we had some audio issues there in the first segment. Ray. First of all, thanks again for for doing this. We were talking about during the pandemic specifically right now, and I want to

get into broader issues in a bit. But as far as the SIMS versus E sports versus say, the stock market, to the extent that you're willing to share, what is sort of your daily well, in terms of the SIMS and Madden, what is your approximate handle on on those games or if you want to just compare them to a regular sport, say the NHL, what how does that compare? And then stock market? What are you doing that every day?

The guy that runs our NHL normally, But we're actually writing more business than what our NHL would normally right, Um, But in general as a whole, I think we are writing approximately of what we would normally right So, I mean it's still we still have a long way to go, but like I said, we're keeping the lights on just even the business functioning currently within anything else. But I'm still amazed at the numbers, um compared to what I thought it would be. I thought we'd be honest, waste

of time, but we had to try something. The stock market writes. You know, you said on an average. Go ahead, Sorry, no, I said, so, you said fifteen percent overall. Handle what you're doing to day versus on a normal time, a different year, non pandemic overall. Correct, that's an approximation, but it's in that general area for sure. Interesting, All right, stock market, I'm sorry interrupted, go ahead, No, Um, the stock market has written just a ton more and I

have dreamed it would write. It writes about the equivalent of the average of if I was right, if I was doing two love MLB baseball games on a given on a given day, it's it's it doesn't on a given day, it does about, um, twice twice as much as one baseball game. Um. What we're doing with the stock market, what we're dealing is we're dealing what will now genes close on that day? And what will the SMB five hunder clothes? And I mean, we know as

much about the stock market as we know about flying airplanes. UM. So you know, Yeah, we look at the number and we watch it move, and we just move our price with the number, and so that influences our number, and then the better's influence our number that is, make a bet. We move it um and assume they might know something, but uh, we're just kind of chasing our tails with it. It's a real tedious trade because you have to be

on the top of it literally the whole time. If you blink, the market caboose seventy five eighty points and you're taking back now that you don't want to take it if you haven't gotten your number. Move. But but the interest has been mind going, right, I thought we would just um, we're just taking a shot, you know. And yeah, it's the only thing I bet consistently during

the pandemic. I bet it every day. Now, Ray you said something there we're talking to Ray Marino for a book acor do you Ray you said that you know as much about that as you do about flying planes. Now, how much of that? Because even as I hear that, right, my my inner sort of uh detector of well, you know, is he being serious with that? Like understand trading, I don't understand the stock market. I mean, I've learned more about the stock market in the last two months than

I've learned in my first foye seven years. And I was just about watching things moving and talking to some different people and whatnot. But I've never played the stock market. I've never gambled on it. All My gambling has been on poker and sports my whole life. And uh, but there's so many concepts that was similar, obviously, But as far as my general knowledge of the stock market and what makes the stock market go, I mean, I've got general ideas, but no, I'm I'm pretty uh, I'm pretty

flueless with it as a whole. Yeah, it's fascinating because you know, again, I was joking with one of your cohorts yesterday. I was like, if you had over under on twenty four thousand, six hundred in the Dow yesterday, that was quite a finish. Yeah, that was that. It ended up twenty four or five nine seven and was way higher than that a mere you know, mere minutes before the closed. So some of you were over by

the way, So was I. Yeah, I was. I was root for the over two and it was a as far as stock markets go, that was about the baddest beat, the worst beat during this pandemic that there has been. Uh, we'll get into more an exclusive look behind the scenes from an offshore bookmaker that is a very rare thing to get thrilled to have him here. I'm detecting an accent to the last, Gray Marino from Bookmaker dot even about that broader concepts, fascinating stuff coming up on a

numbers game at Beast East spending them. Welcome back to a numbers game with you, Alexander, back on a numbers game, just the man said, Keil Alexander right here at Best and the sports betting network, Right, Marino kind enough to join us again this hour from Bookmaker dot eu oddsmaker over there. Uh, last thing about the stock market. I apologize to people from be focused on this, but this has been the thing that I have bet by far

the most during the pandemic. And you and I were just talking off air, Um, I've noticed and maybe you've gone back to this. So half hour before the close of the market, we're talking twelve thirty Pacific, three thirty Eastern. You take that off, and I totally understand why, because you know you're getting close to the end. Uh many of us, I'm sure I'll speak for myself bet right up to that. The farther we get to the clothes obviously, Uh,

you know, the theory being the less volatility. Obviously that hasn't been as consistent as we'd like to be. A couple of weeks ago, as we were talking about it was all over the place and in the final half hour to an hour, have you have you changed your thinking on that? I noticed some days last week it was taken off the board a little earlier than that. Are there some days that are I guess what I'm asking where they're going a certain way for you, maybe favorably,

maybe unfavorably. Where you're like, we should probably take this down sooner today to be a completely open book. What happened, I know what you should refer into now. Last week we actually closed the market at one, and what happened is I'm doing the stock market with another gentleman. We we shared that, and we also share the Madden sims, which start at one. I guess they started twelve o'clock pacific um and I had an emergency last week so I wasn't around, so so he had to do both.

So he was shutting the market down at one o'clock for a couple of days. In general, we want to keep it up to in the neighborhood of one that a twelve thirty and twelve thirty five Pacific the last half hour. We kind of just we we kind of white and wash my hands, but we definitely want to keep it up till at least half an hour before close. And um now, one thing we are doing. I don't know if you've noticed that we might forget sometimes, but are we want to um drop the limits. Cut the

limits in half the last hour of trade. And just because there's more information out there, and you know, we're noticing a lot of our sharper gamblers are coming in a lot more late late and like I said, we really are unknowledgeable on this subject. We're kind of weighing it. We we understand trade and concepts, we understand numbers, but that's about the limit. That's about as far as we

go as far as this, and it's worked out. But we know we're vulnerable at times, so UM, so we do cut the limits the last hour of trade and so generally around eleven thirty to eleven forty five Pacific time, we'll cut the limits in half so that if maybe Trump says something, Trump says something, the markets wil have to go ham four hundred points just the O this he says, Oh, I might say something good and the

market might rise three or four hundred points. Might everything's open back up, you know, But I totally yeah, No, I totally appreciate the I totally appreciate it. Right, because as those of us are betting things like this, we are constantly wondering, huh, I wonder why they cut the limits that, oh they're cutting off at this out. I mean we because these are questions that any real immersed better has on a daily basis, and it's rare that we get sort of an insight to some of these answers.

So just again, I want to review for people because they may not have they may not have heard. You're operating at about fifteen fifteen one five percent of your usual urn overall. You said the stock market on a on a daily basis does about as well as, uh, two major league baseball games? Did you say? Did I get that right? Two major league things? But just the live trading of it, not just the live the live trade of a baseball game, right, okay? And then baseball

games that makes sense. And then as far as Madden and Sims like, do they do as well as an NHL regular season game? For instance. Yes, yes, but that's partly because of the The NFL has been by far our biggest volume sims. You know, we do NBA sims, we do NHL sims, we do NBA sims, and the NFL has written more volume than all the other ones combined, um, believe it or not. The second most populous sim we have, we only run it once a week on Sunday nights

currently is UFC SIMS. We're running a tournament, you know, like the old school UFC used to have the eight men standing and one and one ends up the winner. We're running something like that every week with a different a class, and we throw a couple of women's fights in the middle of the realm of the of those fights. And that the interest there has been insane. I'm righting three times as much in that as I'm right on

the stock market. And so that's been a lot of work because we have to run sim after simonies fighters to make sure we're putting up a reasonable number because they really don't fight like the real game. There's different advantages and just advantages that there's just things that the computer does well. It seems that grapplers are stronger in other words. So we're just running sims to make sure we're putting up competitive fights. Fights where both guys have

a chance to winning. Is one we didn't put up three or four fights where it turned out one guy just didn't have a chance to win and we didn't know it, and we got beat up pretty good there and went back to the drawing. But what did some more homework And now we're putting in tons of hours before we putting these numbers up to make sure we're putting other matchups at a family competitive in price at

least reasonably. Well, you know, if people want to do some real work once we put the matchups up, they can probably still gain an edge. But but yeah, that's what we're doing. It's fascinating. I mean, yeah, it's a whole new world. And I'm sure you've been amazed by by the level of interest, or maybe you haven't been, I don't know, by the level of of people's you know, of people's willingness to bet whatever. UM table tennis has obviously gotten a lot of press. Is has that been

just off the charts for you as well? I'm glad to talk about table tennis. UM table tennis kept us alive. I mean, cable tennis is still to this day our number one earner. I'm hoping Matt jumps it sooner, but asn't. Right now, table tennis is number one. However, I am terrified. When I say terrified, I mean terrified of the future

of table tennis. This is a sport where it's a one on one competition where these guys do not make a lot of money, and now those where going markets are getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and the incentive for these guys to play with these matches are off the beyond big now and we are seeing it already. We're definitely seen Dix matches and so we're trying to when we see it we just take it off the board, or if we suspect it, we're taking it off the board.

But that's gonna become a bigger and bigger problem going forward and table tennis because the gambling markets have grown so much, and they literally grown, you know, to to I mean, I say, a hundred times what they were before this pandemic. Because it's the only live, actual sport event going on and it's a twenty minute it's a twenty minute game. It's a quick fix for the gamblers, so they're jumping on it, but it's definitely fixing going on. It's definitely a couple of guys that know about the

fixing going on. So we're um, it's tough. That is that. I hope people got that point. That is such a major point that the incentive, because we always think about it for American sports, were like, oh, those guys are

millionaires anyway, there's no incentive. But something like table tennis, part of Ray's job has become sadly for him trying to figure out who could be fixing matches, which of these players might be fixing, who might not be specifically who is and then how many betters are aware of this kind of thing because the incentive is there, the bigger these particular sports like table tennis get more segment with Ray. I want to ask about macro issues and

the notion of an instant replay market. I love that coming back on a numbers game at Vista, these sports spending network welcome back to a numbers game with Gil Alexander Uh. It is so rare to get this opportunity to get the perspective of um an oddsmaker at a big book, a legit one of the global leaders. Uh, if not one of two, it's it me. It's a very short list of books here in this hemisphere where you can count on getting paid out bookmaker dot eu uh,

second to none. And Ray Marino is kind enough to join us here for the balance of this hour. Ray, we talked about table tennis in some respects that really buried the headline right because that has ruled the day, has saved you to use your word here during this pandemic, and such a great point about now having to detect

who's fixing and who's not. What is your daily table tennis handle comp to a to a regular quote unquote regular sport booked in a normal time, I would say table tennis is writing I would say slightly more than a major league baseball Then, um, which the day of paper tennis or a dable table, a dable tenant. Table tennis is writing more than a day of major league baseball. Now, keep in mind they're talking hundreds of table tennis matches as opposed to fifteen baseball games. But I think that's

a good comparison. I think that's still that's still incredible. A day of table tennis, despite the fact there's a hundred matches better than a day of Major League Baseball. It's the only sport going. It's literally the open live sport going. Now you've got a German league just opened up soccer and whatnot. But I mean you've got the UFC bytes on Wednesday and Saturdays now which to handle.

On the UFC, the real UFC has gone up like four or five times what the normal but the UFC would have normally been and you know, in in a non pandemic stags that makes sense. What by the way, where's your accent from? Is that New Orleans? Where is that is New Orleans? That is New Orleans? Gonna call yeah,

I love the accent. Um. Okay, has there been a sport, a sim an event, something that you've considered booking ray where even your trade, your your deep trading skills despite that where you're like, yeah, this we can't book like this even this is too much. Well, I'm a live trader as a whole, you know, I'm I do a little bit of the pregame stuff, but my job is running the American live sports in general and things. An amal Um I really wanted to run live baseball in

these sims. But the way the game works in the plays too fast, and without having a model, you can't, like, we could put up numbers between endings the pro moment. That is, in order to do that, we'd have to pause the game every half of ending, and that would that would annoy a ton of the customers. So as much as I want to deal at live because it's such a good live trade in the real market, and it's an easy trade between endings, but it's not an

easy trade. Three one count men on first and third, one out, and then and then it goes and then the double play, and then there's a double play. Now you gotta hurry up in the jar, right I was here? And then way do I go? And by the time you figure out what the number is that throwing the first pitch for the next tent. And if we don't pause the game, and we really can't pause the game every half of an end and because it uh, it would just annoy too many customers, would make too many

customers skeptical or what are they doing now? They pausit a game they must be playing with something, you know. So there's so much skepticism out there now that you're doing everything and you're power. It makes sure people realize this is more on the up and up than any sport in the event you'll have a bet on because

it's not the n nine percent most on events. But yeah, so I'm talking to you you, uh, talking to Ray Marino from bookmaker dot eu oddsmaker over there who runs all the live Betty, let let me let me match you about instant replays during the NFL. This is my single favorite thing that you do. Ray. I hear you laughing, how up every time You're not the guy, I am

the guy. I am the guy. Wow. I came up with this concept about four years ago to give it a try manning four minute five years ago off again, and um, it was more of a publicity to see how it went. And you should see the tick or fly when I throw this number up. Everybody knows the years And UM, I am lifetime loser dealing this problem. Very small, but I am lifetime losers still dealing. Um. You know, people definitely have advantages over um. They can evo.

They got eight in screens that that you know, and I've got it. I'm I've got one guy that helps me looks at things. He's looking at the replay over and over again too. If he sees anything differently, lets me know when I switched the numbers up. But um, it's just the fastest, funniest trade I've ever been a part of day. You just have to you know, and sometimes you might know it should go this way, but you know, these referees think like this in this instance,

and so it's all a guest in name. And you know, I like the ones where it's incomplete or complete, wasn't was it a catch or not? Those are the ones I think they have the most variants, have the most play out of bounds are not you can normally see that by fact, Okay, that was out. That was it, and it's tough to put the true facts out. But the was it a catching not? When they take a step and a half two steps, wasn't a catching fumble? Was it? Incompletion? Those to me the best ones that

get the most two way action. And you know, as opposed to the facts, when something's almost a hundred percent, I might not put it up. But but anything that's got a chance to go either way, I want to. I want to get up and I literally right a hundred, a hundred fifty bets on that sometimes, and it's the working market where the sharp, what we consider our sharp players, they literally do not have an advantage over the other players.

That's right, It's amazing, and I wish because you know, we have computerized things that move numbers automatically based on who's betting something, and then we as traders have the power to move it back, I'll move it further or whatever. Well, I'm trying to get something built right now for the Challenge props so that every bet has the same weight. I want everybody to have the same weight, same input.

And I don't care about my professional gambles with this prople because they're just banging like everybody else and their opinions no better than anybody else is on the Challenge proplem. So I'm working on that for this year. I think I can actually win them the prople if I wait, everybody's bet the same as opposed to wait and show

guys bets happier than than your avage recreational gamblets. Please don't ever stop putting that one up, because it is for those of them who missed what we're talking about. It's it's when there is an instant replay situation during NFL games, and specifically the primetime games. I don't believe you do it for every one of them, but it's uh yeah, just the prime time games. It's a an unbelievable test of speed and uh willingness. How can I

put this to? Uh put up multiple bets on the NFL's rules rules system, which is hardly a reliable thing, but in some cases, uh, you know, if you can get there quick enough is a winning bet. And as as Rage just said, for him, lifetime loser, not not significantly so, but lifetime loser. Uh. Ray, We only have a few minutes here left, and you gotta come back another time because there's so many things I want to ask you, but just real quickly here at the end,

because I want to drive this home. If you are talking to a I won't call him a casual better, but someone who is a casual better who is thinking about doing this a little more seriously, and you're let's say it's just me and you talking here, Ray, and nobody else is listening, because I obviously you have interest in getting people to bed, but like, what's your total

percentage of winning betters? Would you say at your shop, I would say, somewhere between you one true winners, Um, there's probably another five ten percent that are really close, you know, that are on the board of line. You know, those are guys that are doing a lot of things correct using logic, um and uh, but maybe I'm missing a thing here or there. And then I would say, are almost losing the big, you know, almost a full big.

And and there's a few that probably lose more than a big because they you know, when I think what happens a line, when a line looks crazy, when a perceived good team is uh, is say, less a favorite than the market things they should be. You know, it's because it's because smart gamblers have moved it to that to that number. And there's a reason that it's you know, everybody's got this notion and you know not that you know, oh,

Vegas knows this. Vegas knows that, which would be the same thing as saying, you know, bookmaker knows this and isn't we don't know. We we put up an opener. Vegas puts up an opener. It's the market, you know, the betting market modes the number. And that's one of the concepts that that I think it's left behind and most of you know, they always they always set in the traff here, like I love that where they set the trap you know, that's a traff line. It's not

a trap line. The line got moved there because smart people think that's what the line should do, you know, and uh so, and then so people have betten against that. So what they're in general, what they're doing, they're betting against the sharp side of the game indirectly, so they're even given up more than the big in that spot.

I think. Um, but yeah, no, if if I was talking to somebody about game win seriously, I think the two biggest things I'd get across to him is make sure you truly have a passion for this, because it's, um, it's not a crystal ball. You're not gonna look at the newspaper. It's out there's the winners. You have to have a true passion for this. And you have to be willing to work more always than a normal job

to be successful. And you have and not only that, the work has to be logical and it has to you know, it has to be um, it has to be good work, which if you don't understand what that is, then you know this is gonna be a tough racket to make it in as far as making a live and you should be thinking about gambling more in generals as entertainment and something that you enjoy doing, but a shot to win. But if you really want to do it professionally, you better have some real dedication and some

real logic skills and some mathematical skills. That's the only shot you literally had, especially in today's market. You said there were two things that you get both things in there. I'm sorry, I thought you said there were two things you would recommend. I maybe you've got both things in their passion and math skills. I believe we're the two things. Right, have a passion, right, you have to have a passion. You have to have a work ethic. You have to

have a passion. You have you have to work hard. You have to work hard. This isn't an easy Everybody thinks, oh, it's great, you're a professional. Damn well, that must be the greatest and it is from the aspect of you're doing what you want to do. But don't mistake that with it's not Some of the toughest work and the longest hours you'll ever um you'll have to deal with if you want to truly be successful at it. Yeah, Gray,

I I can't thank you enough. I hope this was not so painful, and I hope that enjoy that it was enjoyable enough that you'll come back some other time in the future. I really enjoyed it well, and hopefully I get a better mic set up next time. I'm working from home and this is a last minute thing, and I'll make sure that was set up in a little bit a low, cleaner audio next time. Hopefully, I really appreciate it. Gray Marino from bookmaker dot Eu pleasure. The paper was back paper Bot