Beating The Book: Joe Peta

It's Joe Peter. Joe Peter, author, Wall Street Guy, if you will, UH, someone who has had flirtations with all kinds of things sports betting related, and we'll get to some of those, including what I feel is perhaps the biggest story around the sports betting industry that never got told over the last few years in Las Vegas and beyond. Joe was right in the mix with that. He's got all the insights, uh, and just all the different ways that he's been pulled into the sports betting arena, whether

he wanted to buy design or not. Fascinating guy, super smart, always a friend of the podcast. We're happy to have him as part of our series here today. Enjoy Joe Peter on The Beating the Book Podcast. It's a numbers game with your host, Kill Alexander. You want those unis who believe in Ana Lives. It is a numbers game on a Tuesday. It's Gill Alexander series except Channel two of four, Visa dot Com, the Visa app, Bobo Slinging Game, plus How you doing. I hope you're staying safe, hope

you're doing well. On the show today, Uh, we'll talk about baseball's latest ridiculous fifty game plan. If that's gonna be a thing, not a formal offer, but a default offer, if you will. But today is a Tuesday, and for those who have been keen observers of this show during the pandemic, Tuesday's pretty much reserved for betting profile series that I've done. If not, now when our chance to sort of get into the minds of really influential people

in the business and from all angles. Alan Boston has been with us UH for the series. Rufus Peabody, Dr Bob, Captain Jack Andrews Dink, Allen Dnkinson, Ray Marino. UH, Spanky was here last week. Today it's an old friend of mine who is fascinating in so many ways, UH, and honestly, with him, I hope to reveal the biggest untold story or story that could have been if you will, uh in Las Vegas the last three or four years. It ended up having a conclusion, but something was simmering under

for a big betty company for so many years. That's just one aspect of him, but as a Wall Street background, a major accident in his life that changed his life and uh steered him towards this industry. If you will, Uh, it's Joe Pete. Everybody, how you do a Joe, Good morning to you, thanks for spending the time. Good morning, Gil. It's You're right. We are old friends. It goes back I think to twenty uh eleven, maybe now or maybe preseason when we first we met for tacos in San Francisco.

Where did we meet for tacos? I don't even remember this? Where do we mean tacos? Taco Licious down on the chestnut that's Taco Licious which now has a different chestnut location. We didn't. That's right, we really were. Um. By the way, Joe for those who will listen to Beating the Book podcast for many years, UH and a numbers game obviously

the author of Trading Basses, which we'll get to. A Joe Peter's Master's Tour Guide from twenty nineteen, which is a whole another thing that that's the thing that makes you so interesting, Joe, is there are so many tentacles uh to this next hour with you, and and you know not to sound like James Lipton, uh from inside the actor's studio the late grade James lifted. It should be mentioned, but we always started at the beginning. Um,

where did you grow up? Did you have a financial background in your family that led you to Wall Street? And what were your first experiences with betting? Yeah? So now I grew up outside Philadelphia. My father was a professor immigrant. Uh. And as an immigrant and with a uh first name Erminia, which immediately announced his sort of foreign presence. Uh. You know, his parents didn't speak English, and and so one of the things he did to try to be American was adopted baseball. So this is

in the error of uh the thirties and forties. So he grew up in Philly, so he adopted Phillies of course, but he loved Joe DiMaggio obviously as an Italian American sort of representing the sport, and so that was passed on to me. Uh. As far as financial stuff, not really. He did teach me to read the stock tables on a summer vacation. I remembered down at the Jersey Shore and that became I then became somewhat obsessed with that. And you know, like the title of your show, it's

a numbers game, and I was. I was fascinated by the numbers. UM went to as far as Yeah, I was in the the parlay cards. UM. A body of mine. Well, I happened to be lucky because in in in uh home room in high school. His his last name was paven Uh which sat right in front of me, Peter, and his dad was known as Aggie the bookie and Aggie. So he would come in with these parlay cards and you know, I couldn't get enough of those, and I uh that that really that got me sort of hooked

on on the game UM. But it wasn't as problem back then. You know. I remember going to college. I went, you know, and then I sticking with the numbers. I went down to Virginia Tech to become a c P. A met great graduating accounting and UH then moved up to d C where I was a tax advisor UM with with some famous clients. I I think I've said this to you. I don't think I've said on the air, but one of my former tax clients was Paul mana Fort who was now in jailed for, among other things,

tax fraud. Um. But that that was the That was the type of of rich and famous clientele that was in uh d C at the time. But I remember betting on sports then again, you know you had the bookie, whether it was Legs or Tony or Aggie, Um it was it was the score of a lot, the score phone, right, that was the man calling the score phone was such

a big deal. I can still hear those recorded worces that yeah, that yeah, that that was a So that was sort of but it was always a hobby, right I. I you know, I viewed it as something to try to crack. But I understood the entertainment aspect of it too. Um. So there was never a I never there was never a stigma around it to me because like I said, I viewed it as part of the entertainment industry. Um. And But my professional path then was to get to

Wall Street. After being an accountant for so long, I wanted to get to Wall Street. And you know again similar game, right, it's a you know you're trying to allocate capital based on incomplete information, which is you know, sort of sums up sports betting as well. UM. So I ended up get got a graduate degree, ended up going up to Wall Street, and now I was really my colleagues were my people, UM, these were. I didn't realize how well established the New York City uh sort

of uh betting market was. Um so now you've got people to talk to all day about it, and it uh it became, you know, much bigger part of my life, Like you say, fifteen years into that career. So I guess that was twenty ten. Now, UM, I did get injured in New York. Um, I got as you said, there was an accident. I got run over by an ambulance while I was a pedestrian. UM. And that laid me up and had me in a wheelchair for a little bit. And that's when I had the um, you know,

sort of percolating my mind. Was this idea that the critical reasoning overlap between asset management and sports betting, UM, and then the moneyballization of baseball, they were all related to me. I saw overlaps where one industry did something better than the other two and and you know, you can find something for for points for all of them, and I had the idea to put it into a book. And that's how Trading Basis came about. Uh. I had

never written anything. I got very lucky. I was fortunate that the movie Moneyball came out in the I guess fall of eleven, just as I was pitching the book to publishers, and it had a good elevator pitch because the elevator picture was very understandable. It was, um, Moneyball meets Bringing down the House. So there you have two books that were successful books. They were both well the money Ball wasn't a memoir, but it uh um, it

was easily understood by the publishing industry. And you know that that was that was fortunate because and then because the movie was doing so well, there are a lot of publishers wanted a piece of it. Um. So that's that's how the book came about. Um. And the book came mount. Yeah. And then it gets interesting, this is

how I met you. So the book gets written in eleven, uh submitted early twelve for early publication, and the publisher liked the initial manuscript, you know, very much, and they said we're gonna need an apologue though for because if you know, for people who haven't read the book, it's essentially it's a chronological account of eleven really starting with my accident, um, and so the and it goes into

you know, a lot of stories. It is a memoir, so it's it's my stories of Wall Street, it's my stories of growing up um in a baseball family, and how you know, the fan, the fandom of baseball is in there. And then of course in the betting and the we get to twelve and they said, we're gonna need an apologue for twelve. And they said, we have this idea. We want to kind of run it by you.

What what would you think about going to Vegas with the marketing budget for the book and betting on baseball, um legally, so that you know, we could we could tell that story. And I thought, that's a that's a that sounds like a baseball betting fund, Tony. Um, that sounds like a great idea. And so that I called up family and friends, UM, and that's where I met you.

UM called a family and friends and I'm like, you know, my degenerate buddies, if they know I'm going out there, they're gonna want to be this, and so one one could say we were entity betting when we weren't supposed to. Maybe I don't know something that that would. I always likened it. My I rationalized it to the guy who collects um lottery ticket money from his bowling buddies to cross state lines and uh, you know that on the

the lot of where it's in a state where it's legal. Um, let me step in here for a second, because you know, we we glossed over something that you know it was was a cataclysmic event in your life, and that is

the getting run over by an ambulance. We just you can't really say that sentence and then just go on, Um you were, I mean you had been through a lot, right, you were at Lehman Brothers, I believe when the financial meltdown happened, and that was just its own you know, uh, just the nine eleven of that industry, if you will. And so you had and gil Gil I worked in I worked at you know, the wealth Fancial Center on nine eleven two. So that right, uh, yeah, it's yes,

I it was a very eventful fifteen years. I'm sorry, but go on, well, no, no, no, no, what was your by the way, what was your nine eleven experience? Real quick? I mean, how was that that day? Well, yeah, it was surreal. Um. Our building was attached to the North tower via footbridge. Um so, I you know, walked through that lobby every morning in about a quarter or seven um so. And and I actually had a window desk to the west Side Highway, and I remember the

first explosion, the first plane hitting. I actually looked down from my window because I thought maybe it was an exploit. I thought a car accident or so I looked down and did not see this sort of the impact um For about three or four seconds um so, it was still unclear what happened in the North tower with you just see the gaping hole and the smoke starting to build up. So there's a lot of confusion about what

was going on. I thought it was a gas line, A great person, you know, that was just my guests. There's an explosion up there, um and then you you know, you start hearing the reports was a small plane. Um. But we're still at the windows, and then we see the second plane come in. It was at forty minutes later, I think it was um and then you have no no question at all about what's going on. Um, and that was left the building and actually never walked in

that building again. Uh we yeah, And I lived I lived on eighteenth Street at the time, so walked uh uh stayed down there. And the people who know Lower Manhattan, their Studenson High School is was just north of the North Tower. H and at that point it wasn't so built up, so there were actually parking lots and baseball fields and tennis courts right on the west side Highway. So stood there out in sort of the baseball fields for quite some time watching um and uh that that

that was, you know, that's that's seared. It's uh that that was. That was tough. I mean you live, so you live through then, and so many people, you know, everyone in New York has a as a nine eleven story, and one more tragic than the previous. So you you

lead the entire New York experience. So you lived through nine eleven, uh, two thousand eight Lehman brothers, and you write extensively about Lehman Brothers in your book Trading Basis how a Wall Street trader made a fortune betting on baseball, which, by the way, I think was the second subtitle to that book of a not mistake, And wasn't there like a not necessarily in that order subtitle. My subtitle, which was on the hardcover was a story about Wall Street

gambling in baseball, not necessarily in that orders right. And the when the paperback books rights were sold from my publisher to a different publisher. They in the publishing industry, the publisher really owns the cover, the outside of the book. You own the words inside. So they changed the subtitle to make it a little more uh dramatic. I was never pleased with it. Um it to me, that wasn't the story, um, and fortune is such a I guess

relative word. Um. I would never have characterized that. But yeah, that's publishing and uh the stories inside but so yeah and so again. So you live this in it just just the quintessential New York experience. Uh, one tragedy of after the next, one of a different kind uh than the other. And then you have your own personal one with the literally and you know you glossed over it, but you were on the ground and we're gonna have to go to break here, so I want to pick

this up right after the break, Joe. But you were literally on the ground in in New York City looking down at your mangled leg um, And you know, I get chills even sort of saying that, because we all. I mean, when I ruptured my achilles, right, there's that moment where it's all surreal and it's all happened to you. This was I mean what I what happened to me is nothing would happen to you like your leg was

just destroyed, and this is where it transformed. As you point out, you what if I apply these principles to my first love of sports betting. I want to get into that summer of when we when you did the betting there, and what your biggest takeaway from your experience

for half a baseball season was in Las Vegas. From that, and then move on to what I think is the biggest single story, untold story in all of Las Vegas, and Joe was front lines for that has to do with a big betting company coming back right here on the numbers game at beast. In these sports betting now it is Gil Alexander live in San Francisco, San Francisco,

rather doing betting profiles throughout the pandemic. So interesting that Joe Peter is right across the city for me, uh, west of where I am, and you know, we'd have to arrange to even meet each other obviously at these very strange times. But going through his story, and it just gets more fascinating, uh from here, as if you hadn't lived through enough. By the way, was the use of the word mangled appropriate when you look down at

your leg when the ambulance hit you? Yes? And and you and I being of similar ages, and we certainly remember Joe thisman. I I viewed it as a Jim situation. I was. I was there for the Joe Heisman game. By the way, Yes, that was not fun. By the way, if you want to, if I can recommend anything for you, the East six the East sixty episode on Alex Smith is just a site to behold. I can't watch it,

could not, will not be able to think about that. Yeah, yeah, okay, I'm recommending it to the wrong person, but anybody out there, yeah, I can tell you. By the way, and here's a ridiculous detail. But for some reason, my my dumb human brain wants to know this. What intersection was this in New York City? Oh gosh, West Broadway and Uh, Church, I think down So it was right. Uh, it was right at the corner of at the time where the proposed mosque was going to be. Um. So it was.

I lived on Murray Street, right, We had an apartment on Murray Street for my work in New York, and it was just a blocks out. That's a West Broadway, and I think it was Church, which was a block south of Murray And uh. Because of the location and because of the police presence UM that was around there at the time, I was attended to very quickly um

by by some city personnel. But on the other hand, it was a very uh, it was a sick It was an intersection therefore that had cameras all over um and the f d n Y claimed that there was no footage of the accident. When it came to uh discussed the legal ramifications. Yes, yeah, okay, so uh you're you're convalescing. You're like, hey, I can apply my Wall Street principles to the love of my life baseball betting.

I love that as a child. It produces the book Trading Spaces and as you say, uh, a great case study for them that they were like, look, let's let's put this into action for the epilogue of the book, go to Vegas and uh put this to the test. And so you go there, and I was with you for much of this. I know you stayed. Uh, you stayed to your little kitchen at place at Trump over there and you uh, you did this every day and in the end. Um, First of all, was it a

winning or losing proposition? Let's get that out of the way. Yeah, it was not. Gil. The period I was there was July four through the end of the season. I had had a great twenty eleven twelve got off to a good start, and July in the first five weeks July through the second week of August, uh was brutal. I remember it was highlighted by the very first night there with Sabathia and Rivera blowing afore nothing lead and which

should have told me something. And I think it was July one, and later in in I think later in July. The low point might have been the third week in July when the nationals blue and Strasbourg on the mound blew like an eight nothing lead to the braves and that was that. That was that was the low point. So it's a very brutal rough three and a half

week start. UM the got me in a hold that I didn't get out of for so which maybe, of course feel bad for the outside capital that had come in UM, and which is obviously why I don't like the title of that book either, because that was something that was never emphasized. What was really I was trying to emphasize was the building of a model UM and the like we said, the critical reasoning overlap between these UH pursuits. Yeah, I can remember a night or two.

I remember once when a usually mild manner Joe Peter got into it with other people in his sports book over the outcome of a game. They had no idea. How much was writing on it for you, oh, Dan Strailing, Yeah, he got cold man, he got called up. This is this is where I'm telling because I don't think i've I think we've talked. We said it, we should tell this on the air sometime and and never did. But

I'll try to make it quick, Dan Straili. This was probably August, late August, I believe, got called up by the A to make his first start, and at the time I was using a lot of minor league analytics from one of the original Baseball prospective guys play Davenport and the Numbers did not like dance trailing and it was so they were playing Toronto that night and the thing opened. I think that at the A's of like

uh minus one and I'm I'm piling on Toronto. I'll tell you what, Joe, I hate to say that, I gotta, I gotta take a break. I want to tell the Dance Raili story. And I wanted to get the biggest takeaway from because I think the bigger point is your biggest takeaway from your Wall Street background of how ridiculous you found the sports betting industry in Vegas, obviously pre legalization.

We'll get into that, and then the biggest story ever to coming back on a numbers game at Visa with Joe Peter right here on these Sports Betting Network with you, Alexander. A numbers game proudly brought to you by man scaped dot Com and Escape dot Com is the tools for your Emily Jules. You get plus three shipping with the code of Visa and man escaped dot Com. That's off at man escaped dot Com with promo code v s I N It's Gill Alexander Joe Peter kind enough to

uh join us today on the show. The author of Trading Basses and Joe Peter's Tour Guide presents a twenty nineteen Masters preview. My goodness. We'll get to that eventually too. But let's get back into this story here. This is from This is your summer in Las Vegas betting baseball. This will start out as a very funny story but will actually lead into the broadest point that was your

biggest takeaway of that summer. Yeah, so, as we were talking before the break, Dancetrail is making his debut've I'm modeled pretty hard a getst dad to fade him, and Toronto is an underdog that night, I think it opened like minus one five plus one, and I start putting money on Toronto and and as can happen, you you you get some limits um and you know, and then you wait and then you you can go back to

the counter. But meanwhile, in the two hours before the leading up to the game, the gods keep going up on on Oakland. So it's price for me and Toronto is getting better and better. But by the same token, now that's making my my um expected as I calculated it eggs higher and higher, which is demanding to put more and more of the funding, until it eventually reached a a two percent play, which which meant it was

gonna be about a play. Um so that's what I have on on the game, maybe at a blended rate. And you're right, and I'll let you come back to that. The way I had to bet that I found aggravating in that I was being limited and then they would make the price of better as I'm sitting there. Um so yeah, well, and and that was just that's not the way we work on Wall Street when we pray stocks, and and there's a much more efficient way to do it,

and we can get to that. But so yeah, so and of course Dan Stailer is in trouble all night and but yeah, he's stranding guys that you know, some eight percent clip or something, and I think it's four to entering the night and I'm just sulking, like I'm I'm very quiet. I'm sinking in my chair. I'm at the west Gate and it uh. I can't remember who the closer was for Oakland at the time, but it was again a guy that I did not like, and

it was clear he was hanging sliders. You could just see it, and I'm like, somebody's gonna jump on one, and sure enough, one runner on two outs, somebody tied it on a hanging slider and and drilled it into the left field, and I must have come out of my seat five six ft in the air, and so it's tying the game at four and because I could see it coming, and I just exploded and and you know,

I'm sure I made some sound. And there was a group of like six guys to my right and they they're looking and the one guy goes, guy has ten dollars on the over and if the only knew that set me off, that's when it just then it was essentially me verse eight guys and that that game ended up going in the fift or sixteenth inning, um, And so it was like the it was. It was a

terrible experience. And and of course Opened won the game in like sixteen innings, So yeah, it was it was Coca Crisp threw out a guy in like the thirteenth from uh deep and left field. It was. It was painful, um. But so what it what it was representative of was the thing that I remember most from that summer, which is from your Wall Street background. Again you're like, this

is so primitive the way they do business here. Explain that, Yeah, we have something on Wall Street we call sales trading. And you know there's traders who are your market makers, and then there's people who are trying to uh there, you know, salesman brokers, you can call what you want. We call them sales traders. And what there there's an art to sales trading and and what it is, it's it's an attempt to bring buyers and sellers together and

find that price discovery. UM, hopefully maybe after the market maker has stepped in and started by maybe committing some capital and so to me. And this happened over and over in the summer, whether I was at the Win or this night happened to be at the Westgate. UM. I did almost all my business there. And the third one was The Venetian, which was a Canter book, which was my first introduction to Canter. And we can get into that and later into something in the summer Riviera.

UH turned their book over to William Hill. That was William Hill's first outpost in Vegas. UH and that was not surprisingly a bad experience, but it was what used to bother me was I would be limited on a bet and I would be sitting there and they knew me. You know, at this point I'm in every day and the odds would go up essentially at a better price than I was trying to get when they were limiting me. And I didn't understand why nobody was ever saying, hey Joe,

come here. You know, we were you know, either we got somebody on the other side like how much would you do here? You know, And that's the art of sales trading. It's knowing your customer, it's opening them up two so that you can put together a bigger trade. And I viewed that as a huge opportunity, especially if whilst if, if the state and the industry was trying to attract the entity betters. To me, one of the reasons they were never going to succeed is they didn't

know how to handle entities. They didn't know how to sales trade in my parlance. Um, So that that was, you know, among that was one of my observations the industry that summer UM and I think that was the other thing you asked for. My takeaway was it's a grind. I mean that that was a grind. Um. Cantor was the only one that that had anything that resembled mobile batting at the time, which is kind of funny story in itself. But that led me because I tried to

get to know everyone. That led me to meeting a few times with Liam Madus, who at the time was the CEO of Cantor, and I became fascinated with their business model. Became fascinated with their business model, which again I don't want to run into a break and get that started, but essentially, UM Joe's experience that again from the walls read background, realizing some of the inefficiencies uh in how Vegas. Uh sports books do businesses. By the way, UH,

that part has not changed to this day. It's not as if that model has been adopted in any way. UM sports books are going to do with sports books do. But it it, it got you fascinated in in the busines, this operations. And then maybe maybe this is a stretch to say this, but lad Jodah, I kind of wanna take over in a certain way. UM, those are my words, not Joe's. We'll get into Joe's involvement, Uh, with the story.

The biggest story that has been untold I would say in the three years of Visa and the biggest story that has been untold um mostly because most people didn't know about it. I did, but there was never a story to actually go on air with. Was the sale of CG technology that was out there for a very long time for a song was available for a song, relatively speaking, Joe's involvement with that and how its origins may have actually been in the greatest game Wall Street

ever played. Joe's got some more. Joe's got some roots in that as well. Trust me, this is good coming back on a numbers game and Visa these sports betting network. Welcome back to a numbers game with Jill Alexander. Don't forget. Now is the time to become a Visa Plus subscriber. It's free. You won't have to decide what you want to do, pay or cancel until at least one of the major sports returns. Just gonna Visa dot Com slash subscribed to sign up. That's Visa dot Com slash subscribe.

It's Gill Alexander, it is Joe Peter, author of Trading Basses and Joe Peter's Master's Tour Guide, which we'll get into, but first this story, which is okay, so you've gotten to this point. Uh, you started to meet some of the guys over there at Uh it was Cancer Gaming back in the day, then it became CG technology. Take us from there, and uh explain to us how deep

this actually got. Yeah, So, as I mentioned that summer, I saw, you know, a lot of benefficiencies, and what I saw with Cantor was, um, you know, so here so here, I'm complaining that there there's an entity betting law that that nobody is attempting to take advantage of. There is, um there are which would acquire, you know, pockets of capital, right to commit themselves to to sort

of uh to being batting entities. UM. And at the same time, you have one UM sports book in Vegas and and and let's give them credit, they sort of pioneered the outsourced uh the outsourced sports book. They probably helped the experience for everybody because everyone had to step up their game somewhat when Cantor first took over the Venetian and uh what Emerald Legati's Uh, those were good

experiences for the customer. UM so they they had some they had some innovative ideas, and but to me, the gold mine that they had was via their parent, Cantor Fitzgerald. They talked to the largest pools of capital in the United States every single day that they were trading stocks

and bonds. This would have been such an easy energy to tell them about how they were going to launch the sort of the the entity betting sales coverage in Nevada, and that all would require would be for these um you know, for somebody one of these funds to put someone in Nevada. To me, Cantor was the perfect conduit to do all this. And then also, um, as you kind of touched on, I had a hand in, you know, the creation of of some derivative like betting products, uh

markets essentially that were extremely popular on the street. And I thought, were you know, it was gonna I thought it would enhance the user experience, um if they could ever be rolled out you know, legally in a sports book. So I viewed at the time, I was like, man, Cantor is this is this is an organization that that is really well suited to do a lot of things. The problem was, as we know, um, you know they had the wrong guys in the seats. Uh they uh

you know you said they changed their name. I kind of view it as an airline that changed their name after they plow into the side of the mountain. You know they Oh, people forget that the name used to be Allegheny. Um it's um so. Yeah, they had problems, but those problems resulted in the asset essentially being orphaned um at the you know, by the financial institution. So here you have an orphaned asset that they want to spin off and get rid of eventually can and Gerald

CG Technology. That's right. And you know, because after they had run in the legal problems that I think they were viewing it as not a core business and more trouble than its worry Now me, I'm like, this is also on the cusp of perhaps of being repealed, Like this is at this timing, couldn't be better. They want

to essentially give this away. Um. So I put together um A. I became aware of it and and you know got inside, you know, I was able to as a as a serious buyer, you know, was was shown the books and signed n d as essentially to really understand the business and and I put together the financial backing to do it. Um, we couldn't pull it off.

And as I like I said, because they're nd as you know, I can say that there were issues that price couldn't remedy in making the sale, just couldn't get the the the you know sort of the money backers comfortable. And these are professional dcs, UM with some with some items and and and it was fair enough I understood.

So then I tried a different tact, which was to uh and and so essentially something for some of those items show is it is it as benign as I mean, they're not benign, but is it the leastes that were part of that or something worse than that? When you have lease's guilt, if there's something like that, you can usually remedy that with price. Right, Like it was stuff I mean, like I said, I can't go be on that.

But right if it were just something like, hey, this is an unfavorable lease, we're gonna have to lower the price, and and like if you couldn't agree on price, that's one thing. But this was just something that you couldn't remedy. Um, you know, some some items there couldn't be remedied with you know, with with and one would one would be sort of. One thing that venture capitalists are um are don't like is they don't like regulation that can change

without notice. So and to be fair to backers, um they you know, so a state anytime the state can come in and change the rules. UM that that of course it can be that that that can cause some hesitation. So you put that with then some items at the actual asset um and it just couldn't pull it off. So my idea was, Okay, I still want to run this thing. Let me try running it as it is, you know, put me and so I I went to the company and just I I tried so hard. Let

me run this. This is worth so much more than you know it is if we you know, here's my ideas for the synergy with the with the financial industry, etcetera. UM, perhaps is gonna be passed, There is going to be repealed. You've got a technology play. Essentially, this is gonna be plugged in play. This is why the vcs were so interested in it. They do it as a software play, not a you know, not a gaming play. And these guys they're really a data company, right. That was the

course data. That's that's another arm. That's another arm. It's a data element, yes, um. And you know because market makers we understand. Believe me, when I was a market maker, you wanted, well, it's there's just there's ways to run that business profitably, even if you are at an informational disadvantage. And that is something that Cantor should know as well as anyone. UM, So we don't. We don't worry, you know about you know, Spanky and Rufus can come in.

We'll still make money off that. And then Chris knows that Let the South Point is an extremely well run book. UM. I really like how they approached the business. But just all those things combined it was great. But I'm telling you Gil that the people at Cannard there were donkeys. Um. For one thing, they refused to believe. It came to me from the highest levels of Cantor that sports betting will never be legal anywhere at Nevada because Sheldon Adelson

has guaranteed me that. And I was like, you mean, Sheldon Adelson that just got clowned by Mark Davis. That that guy, that's who you're that's who weird to your weather vane. And you know that doesn't go that doesn't go through well necessarily, but it it. I couldn't get them to understand the potential that was there um and it just I couldn't. I couldn't pull it off. And eventually they gave away the assets um because it uh uh. And it was too bad, because they really did do

some innovations. Um. You know that they now the problem when I say the wrong guy was in the seat. It was astounding to be how many people within the industry um management turned off just with sort of their

approach um when they got here. Even I when I had an attorney uh to sort of start the licensing um for me um he he he laughed because he said, you know, we're just kind of talking about some stuff, and even he had a story about cancer management and and he just keeps and his words were, they could have gotten so much more done with the different attitude. And I'm like, yeah, we're gonna change that. But that was you know, never got to and but that would

have been fun. I mean I remember you describing it. Yeah, I remember you describing at the time. As it turns

out that cannor Fitzgerald hates their own business. They hate their own business arm that is CG Technology, And you know, it explains a lot for why when PASSA was deemed unconstitutional and sports betting was legalized, that we heard about draftings and every company under the sun moving in that we never heard a whisper, right, not even a whisper from CG Technology during that time, and a lot of

that explains why that's the case. By the way, I don't know if you're allowed to tell me this, um, but just for giggles, and by the way, just for a factual sake, William Hill did by the assets of a cantor gaming of CG Technology at the time. In uh, that's a vague way of describing it. They bought the assets of CG Technology, But that's what's been reported two years ago, three years ago. If I had uh twenty million lying around, could I have bought the entirety of

CG Technology? Oh I, I you could have made an offer. I think you would have been Uh, you wouldn't have been. I don't believe you would have been laughed out of the room. Well said, okay, Uh, we'll try to work on the technology. I know it's bouncing in and out and we uh, we're trying to get every little detail

at Joe talked about. We'll do one more segment, Joe, because I want to come back how you transitioned after this, uh, from your entire baseball betting experience, the flirtation more than a flirtation obviously with CG technology, and how you transitioned to golf and wrote this Joe Peters Masters Tour guide Book, which we had you on the air talking about, um, the discoveries you made. Tiger eventually ends up winning the Masters. I'm sure you had to be uh sort of uh

fortified by that or at least validated by that. We'll get into that transition, uh and maybe even get some thoughts on how you feel about baseball saying, yeah, none of these agreements come out to come to pass. We may just end up playing a fifty game schedule. That'll be fascinating. Joe Peter the guest today author, uh former Wall Street and uh Wall Street exec and uh find out what Joe is doing these days, which should probably a master earlier. But we'll we'll talk about that coming

back right here. On a numbers game at Visa. It's a numbers game with your host Ji Alexander believe in analys our number two of a numbers gape right here at Visa these sports betting network kill Alexander Serious x M, Channel two four, Visa dot Com, the Visa Boobo Slate game, plus Joe Peter with us still uh kind enough to hang out through the break here and Joe, I was just telling you off air, you know one of the nice things about you know, you try to make lemonade

out of lemons. And so this pandemic obviously has been the most surreal, strange time, uh, in so many ways in all of our lives. And you know, we gotta do a show. And you know, when this started, I'm like, I don't know what I'm gonna talk about. You know, s VP would say the same thing on Sports Center. I don't know what we're gonna talk about, but we'll figure it out. Uh. And so one of the things that I decided to do was go into this sort

of Roy Firestone mode for sports betting. And it's so you know, because if not now, when right, I'll never get the chance to do this in the middle of a sports season. But it's been so fascinating because you know, you get the originators like Alan Boston. On one end of the spectrum, you get the Spanky's of the world. I shouldn't even say the spankis of the Worldcau Spanky is one of a kind on his end of the

spectrum in what he does. UM with his network in sports betting, you're I don't know if I know a guy who does not deal in sports betting on a day to day basis that is as much a part of sports betting, or probably is more entrenched in sports betting without actively being in it as you have been over the years. For all of these reasons you did that.

You did trading bases, you had that experience, then this entire canner gaming arc that went on for years, first trying to buy them, putting it together the money, than saying, you know what, all you don't want this, let me run it. Um And so I just find that fascinating. That tells me, and you'll correct me if I'm wrong, that there's still this itch for you. And I wonder if that itch has been scratched for the last time

or if you think it will come up again. I would still like to help innovate the industry with some product offerings. UM. I still think I have that to bring to the table for somebody. That's what I would call the cell side. That that's the you know, the

the originator side of the counter. So I would uh that that is something I wouldn't that sort of back Bernard as exploring, because I did go One of the other things I did that I didn't mention about in the in the CG arc was through you know a lot of the people that I hadn't met, our entities I had met. I went to just about everybody I could that was an existing book to talk about a strategic um uh transaction, which is usually needs eminet you know,

some sort of merger or acquisition. I wanted to team up UM and there there was a case where original management at CG had burned so many bridges that just mentioning what I was trying to do make people learing and which was you know, that's take that's they made that bed um. I was going to try to change that culture. But that was that was certainly an obstacle

as well. Yeah, um, all right, So you know you go through this and then and the last iteration of Joe Peter that my audience is aware of, and this is this is what's been so amazing over the last decade, Joe is you've had so many different tentacles. I said this at the beginning. Then you go golf. Uh, and you do Joe Peter's twenty nineteen Tour guide Master's Preview, which is like this pivot where everybody was like, WHOA, what's Peter doing? I thought he was the baseball guy.

I didn't know he was into golf. Uh. And this was this was no run of the mill thing. Uh. You were you were like, I'm gonna do this the way that I do everything, and I'm gonna deep dive it. And you got access to something nobody else else has ever done, has gotten access to. I should say, yeah, that's right. So again you're always looking like, what what

would the hook for a book be? Because the first thing they when you're write in the book, the first thing you really should ask yourself is could this be a magazine article? Um? And if it could be, then you don't have a book. Uh. And so what I as I was diving into golf anel that it's and I saw a much less explored subject matter than certainly baseball. I had what we didn't talk about was. I had been writing at ESPN for three years, and I felt

like I was done with baseball. Um, let me let me just step in real quick here, let me just step in real quick, Joe, to identify ourselves. It's Gil, Alexander, Joe Peter right here in a numbers game at Visa and these sports betting at word Series XM channel two O fourth. Yeah, I completely clossed over that you wrote baseball for ESPN for so many years. Go ahead, I'm sorry, yeah, mostly,

but some of it was on the main side as well. Uh, and just kind of felt like, you know, I had been writing those previews now for like seven years, every team, you know, seven to a thousand words a team? How many more? How many different ways could I say clusterlock right? Like I was? I didn't. I didn't feel like I had. Plus, the analytics had improved so much. I didn't really feel like I had much more to add their. Um, Joe, the rubber hit the road when that Hamilton's piece ever

made the made the light of day. That's the truth. There was some bad, there was some ill. I was we were we were we Yeah, well I will put it like this. We we were there there was a there were talks about full time employment. Um. At the same time, the timing chess kept being wrong um uh, whether it was just hiring freezes, layoffs elsewhere, and then when they were ready, maybe something was going on in my profession. Um. Chad left um, which which uh you

know he was a big champion hind there um. But the experience overall was great. But I remember when we were talking about a full time job, I was and it was going to expand much more beyond chalk. I remember being told in two different by two different either editors of senior producers, et cetera, you know, we we

need the Bill Barnwell of baseball. And at the same time I was told we would like a tone, a Bill Simmons tone without the misogyny, right, And so I wrote the I So I was like, okay, I'm taking that as a marking order, and then wrote on spec a preview for the playoffs and and yes it was. It was a Hamilton's themed one, um. And it didn't

get pished at the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well I did. Yeah, I mean so did I um it uh And yeah that that was that to me was exactly what they were looking for and on top of that, as you know, you know, to to it, it correctly predicted every single playoff series in before they were played, so it could have been something that they would have you know, constantly been going back to. And plus, at this point we had been building up a pretty nice viewership in terms

of paid views and and the video hits, etcetera. For the writings, I just kind of felt like, this is the this is the staff sort of launching pad um and yeah when when that so, I kind of, you know, I was like, A, should I be as serious about this as uh? And maybe not? And that's when I was like, okay, let's turn to something else and and golf and you were mentioning, you know, I was talking

about you need a hook. Well, as I started looking into golf analytics, I could tell it wasn't heavily covered, which makes it sort of a green field for writing. But then I also found on the master's website um stroke by stroke data for uh, theen Masters UM that was comparable to the shot linked data that all you know p g A Tour analytics are based on. But because this wasn't owned by the p g A Tour or not, and not run by the PJ Tour. They

didn't have this data. Um So I took it and created the book um previewing essentially the nineteen Masters and using all the data from and that was fun, totally new area, totally new readership. And uh that was that

was a wonderful time. Um it I was. It was nerve racking before because unlike a baseball season where your stuff plays out of our hundred sixty two games, UM I had, I had a you know, I had a unique top ten for that tournament and by and especially the winner, having projected Tony Finale to win, and that was not that was a true projection. That was not a based on the value. This is where you should put your money, like this was my pick to win. Um and and his eyes kept getting worse as as

as tea times approached. UM So I was very nervous on the eve of the of the Master's UM I did have Tiger Woods. Third, I was high down on Tiger um you know, just in I didn't really liked his futures price by any means, but in terms of you know what what I thought his potential and that he had I wrote it why he had a real chance to win, um and hopefully you know, sort of keep some people into some new stuff about that tournament.

UM and you know how to handicap golf. I think it was successful because Rufus had me on his podcast and shut me down on two different topics that he did not want disclose. That's what that's exactly exactly. Do you help different versions of this Joe in the future. We didn't talk about gil Gil. I dropped the March eleventh, which was the Wednesday before the I dropped it the night before the players was supposed to tee off, which was the Wednesday night that all held broke loose. And yes,

preview is just in digital format UM. So it's more of an addendum. I sort of update any chapters from the original book that would be different. For instance, if it was data now I have all the twenty nineteen data, and if it was twenty nineteen projection now to chapter projection. Uh so, yes, that's there. We'll see how relevant it is in November. Obviously we're not gonna get you know,

current form is going to be very different. But as I you know, as I put in the book, of course history matters more at this event than any other by a mile. So you know, we'll we'll we'll see how that uh preview goes as as well. But last year, as far as any female made my obviously those first the Saturday of the Masters was one of the most enjoyable experiences I've ever had seeing him, uh play his way into the final group on Saturday. Yeah, you're your anticipation.

No one, Tony Finale had no idea how much he were into Tony Fine that day. You were more instinct in him than he might have been himself. Uh. But but Tiger ends up doing this thing. So a couple of loose ends here, uh, some of which is my fault. One. Where is that available again? Version? Yeah, that it's not. It is if you really go to my if you go to my Twitter feed, it's being sold through a an online publisher. UM. And I gosh, because it's been a couple of months, I can't even you know, the

link is there in my uh in my Twitter bio. Um. And certainly as we get closer to the event, you know, I'll come on, we'll do a piece, you know, stuff like that. But that it's that's the only place it's available. This was really too uh too for you know, for people who enjoyed the first one. Um, this was like, hey, here's the work I would do, and here I'm going to dump it into your lap as well. Yeah. At Magic rat SF tribute to Bruce Springsteen at Magic rat

SF is Joe's Twitter. I also interrupted you. You were saying, uh rufus shut you down a couple of times, and you've got excited about saying something else. Do you remember what it was? And then I veered you of version maybe maybe come into your head tell us this for people who missed it. You uncovered as part of your book, and this has nothing to do with anything but just an amazing stat. You uncovered the greatest, maybe the greatest Tiger stat there ever was in that version. Do you

remember what that was? Yeah, it was his. It's his, it's his plus stroke game streak and uncoverage unfair because Mark Brody did write about it first. At the time, I didn't know about it Mark Brody of course, being the godfather of all of all golf stats. But I did tell the story of how I stumbled on it. Uh. And he nearly had a perfect year where every single UM round that he played for the entire and it was more than the calendar. It was more than the

twelve month period. But so he had the Tiger, the Stroke Games Street, and that the calendar Stroke Game Street his entire two thousand season. The very last round of the of the year, which was involved a rama in Spain in November bordering a w GC event. Uh it, he lost it. He lost that streak of gaining strokes on the field. Um And I believe it was that it was in the eighties, eighty six or ninety two. It might have been eighty six straight rounds. Nobody ever

gets above like in the teens. It's an unbelievable streak. We had fun talking about it. I wrote about it in the book. Um I we heard when we talked about it on air, Chris the Bear Fleika called in. He had the scorecard which I couldn't find, and it turns out he went like double triple to finish the round. He literally choked. But then it turns out he didn't choke because I heard from a guy who was at

that event, and he was a Canadian guy. He was following Mike Weir, who was in the group behind Tiger. We're actually won that event. And it turns out those greens had baked out, and the seven teams at Valderrama slopes from from back to front down with a lake in front of the green, and it was apparently near impossible with the baked out green to actually put a

ball on the green. And there is a story that I later found, I think from Alan Shupnick, who who was in the locker room after tiger rooms last round of two thousand and Tiger was taking a club and destroying his bag and locker. He was so mad about the condition of the course and all those go together. And the funny thing is, I still don't think Tiger knows that that's what I was. That's exactly what I was gonna say, Yeah, like, this is such a it's

such an amazing thing. We don't know that even that he was even aware of that, And to if he had known and to have lost it like that, oh my goh my god, because you could say, oh, he wouldn't care about such a thing. Yeah, that was a pretty unbelievable streak Strokes gained, which is the foundation of everything. Uh in Joe Opeda's Master's Tour Guide. Uh So, for those wondering because I'm sort of bearing what you're doing now, and your dog wants to notice as well, what are you?

What are you actually doing with your life these days? What does Joe Peter do on a day to day, day to day basis? Now, Yeah, I have a new job in the financial industry that I that I took last summer. And that's why the book was not a full book. Um. Uh it was. It was a new role and it it uh, it was just yeah, I love it, and it was not going to allow me the time needed to actually write a full book. I'm sorry about the dog. It's must be long time, um,

but that's uh, that's what I do now. So I'm still in the financial industry and uh and that's why anything you know, these other ideas about the industry, um, and those are all sort of back Bernard. Yeah, okay, um, but you're you're you plan on? I mean, I don't know, maybe you do, maybe you don't. I know that this job is all consuming for you, but um, uh, you work for who is the gentleman? You work for a hedge fund, work for Steve Cohen? Is that who it is?

As is publicly available on some other sites. Uh, yes, I work for a firm. Uh, an asset management firm called Point seventy two, which was founded by a gentleman named Steve Cohen. That that is correct, okay, UM, so let me ask you this, UM, any insight on the New York Mets acquisition, because I know that he was named when it came to the Mets. Let me push the envelope here as they say, Yeah, well, you know, you know, we were certainly excited at the firm to

hear about it. UM. I don't know anything beyond I mean the firm, the the the from what we were told, the purchase itself would not have been made by our firm, but would have been you know, it would have been a family purchase, which means it wasn't part of our business. Uh and it but it was exciting. I think you know, I was certainly excited by remember I I love the overlap between asset management and moneyball, right. I think it would have been very interesting to have an owner with

an analytical UM Wall Street background. UM. I would have loved to see if if that would have worked. But you know, as far as the details, I read them just like you do in the paper. UM. And it uh. And one thing, you know, so as far as you know not coming together again, I know what you know in the paper. I will say that we have an expression on the trading floor, um that we say good mess. You know, maybe you relate to the counter to put

it back down. It's quickly good mess. Uh. If the reports are correct, and how that transaction did not come to fruition A good men? Right, like, oh my god. And if you're a selling partner, who you know is is uh uh missed out on a multi billion dollar sale. And I can't imagine you're I can't imagine you're happy. I can't imagine you think. And this segues into your next piece on on baseball. I can't imagine you think that that asset is going to be worth what it

was you know for quite some time now. Yeah, I just I guess you know this is And I'll just wrap it up with this, Joe and I'll talk. I'll

get into the fifty game thing with baseball. But it just seems to me that what's the expression just when you think you're out right, they come pull you back and you just end up through no real design, right like you didn't whether it's this job now that happens to have this flirtation with buying you know, the Mets or whatever it is what we see in reports, Um, whether it's you know, just the nature of the CG technology arc, you just seem to get reeled in in

a in a very I don't know, the universe. The universe just reels you into sports, betting, into sports itself. So I'm I'm guessing we haven't heard the last from me. That's just a hunch. I don't know if I have nothing behind that. But I get the sense that you also feel that way, don't you like, don't don't you think that this is not your last chapter? You know, you surround yourself with people, if you like to surround

yourself with people who have similar interests. Um, yeah, things can pop up, right and and uh, I think that's the uh, that's the well, that's that's the whole point of of networking, right, you know, surround yourself by smart people who have similar interests and a lot of times

you don't know what's around the corner. Yeah, um yeah, And I think there's a I think there's more than one person listening to this and now and this is I'm gonna touch your horn for you, Joe that has to be listening to this and has to say themselves, this dude is unique, uh and might be the guy that I need to run this because there's so many now with legalization, there's so many different uh you know, ways to uh skin the cat in sports betting in

so many different positions, so many different uh piece of expertise one needs, and so uh you know, not that you're not happy doing what you're doing, because I know it's it's bigger than most things, but that that occurs to me as well. Joe Peter, author of Trading Bases, still available where all books are sold, A great book about modeling, and then about his history, about a summer of and then Joe Peter's tour guid nineteen Masters, but

now in a digital version. If you want to stay for five minutes, Joe, we could do the fifty game Baseball because I want to get your thoughts. Can I do that five more minutes? Well, let's do it, Joe Peter. I radioed him. I said, hey, would you mind stay it? After the break? Coming back on a numbers gave it visa these sports betting that welcome back to a numbers game with you, Alexander. It is all Alexander, Joe Peter hang out with us. H the Saur Chrisie Andrew still

to come, uh Joe sad news from the NBA. Wes Unselled has passed away West Unselling at the age of seven. Four former Washington Bullets great and a guy who was beloved by team owner A Poland so much that he became the Bullets head coach. He was the Bullets GM, he was the Bullets VP and years after his playing career, but most notably was the NBA's m v P and Rookie of the Year. Uh So he's the m v

P his rookie season in nineteen sixty nine. Uh ended up played at Louisville before that in college, ended up winning a NBA championship with the Washington Bullets. He the big Ee, Elvin Hayes and Bobby d. Bobby Dandridge led the Bullets in nine to the NBA title. I was

a kid, uh a little kid when that happened. Um, And all I can say from those days is, and you pointed this out off break, because whenever I bring it up, you you made the key point that was those were the two years before Burden Magic, when the Bullets beat the Sonics in seventy eight, and the Sonics beat the Bullets in seventy nine, when the Bullets won the NBA Championship. Sports Illustrated ran the story on page seventy five. Oh, by the way, the Bullets won the

NBA champion Think about that? Yeah, defferently before and after? Yeah, west un selled. What a great guy, uh passing away hit complications? Of course, the fourth complication I was thinking about. You mentioned Dan Drakes and Big Eat and then seventy five year old Tom McMillan with the gray hair, right that Tommy, Oh no, Tom McMillan was after that. Tom McMillan played for the Bullets in the eighties. Seventy five was the was when the Golden State Warriors and Rick

Berry swept to the Bullets. Yeah, okay, I can just picture that those uniforms and and the mop of gray hair. Uh yeah, yes, r I. P. West On selled all right, Joe, Listen, A lot of our time the past couple of months has been uh filled with hair. Is the latest NHL planner, Here's the latest n The NBA really has like four plans a day, it seems like. But baseball, man, listen, I've been one of the few people this is a strike. I'm not even this has nothing to do with the

pandemic anymore. To me, this is a strike. This is it feels like there's a bunch of owners we in fact, we know from reporting that there's a few owners who don't want this to get played. Uh. They had to know, the owners that their latest offer to the to the players last week was going to fall just uh dead

to the to the players on arrival. But Jeff Passon reports yesterday he goes, look, this isn't being proposed officially, but there is this thing in motion that if none of these other plans work out, that major League Baseball is prepared as a default to play a fifty game range season that would pay players full pro rated salaries. And I've made this room work the whole time. Like, I can't believe baseball purists of all people have been okay with yeah, realignment d h in both leads like

they're like any baseball is better than no baseball. And I've always been like, what really, what do you think about a fifty game season? Joe yeah, the whole thing. You're right, they're they're stepping all over themselves. Uh. And you say strike, I would term it a lockout more than a strike, because I think you're correct and saying it's the owners who don't want to abide by the first agreement that they struck back in March, right in terms of the pro ration. They want to take it

further from there. Uh. It it is amazing to me how disorganized this industry looks compared to the especially basketball. You mean, you see you see them working together. Uh. And and this does seem certainly when you get a guy like Max Scherzer as your spokesman who would stand to lose more than anyone except like Derrick Cole right, and um by not playing. Um, he's firing heat at the owners. So it it it. I am skeptical that that anything would happen fifty games. Yeah, it's it's do

you just make them division games? I mean, I don't, you know, I don't, I don't know. It's almost like, yeah, they're there. It's so hard to kind of wrap your arms around what this would look like or how it would be helpful. Um, but you know, what are your thoughts do you think it's gonna happen. I can't imagine

fifty games happening. First of all, who somebody's gonna win the batting title with a five fifteen batting average and somebody's gonna win the home run title with nineteen dingers, right, It's like, it says, the whole thing is so ridiculous. I'm like, who wants this? Like who would even Not only that, the every day and every week that goes by baseball will get pushed into this. You know, oh, the golf majors in football, like nobody cares at that point.

Nobody cares, now, Joe, I gotta run, man, I've I've enjoyed it. I apologize for keeping keeping you over, but these commercials come when I at least want them to. Thank you always, and best of luck. We'll talk soon. We'll talk before the masters