Whitetail Warfare with Rusty Johnson

you need to go on with your life. Interstate Batteries outrageously dependable. My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into the world of hunting the icon of the North American wilderness. Prepare. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation. We will also bring you into some of the wildest

country on the planet. Chasing their Rusty Johnson. Rusty Johnson is a longtime friend of mine and I've always had a ton of respect for him as a white tail hunter. I don't there's there's not another person that puts in more energy, that has more passion and love for bow

hunting whitetail deer than Rusty Johnson. So we have a really good discussion, a timely discussion because it is go time for white tails, and we have a timely discussion about all things dear hunting, his philosophies, my questions and philosophies, and uh, just a fast paced conversation that you're gonna enjoy. Hey, I've been carrying for the last week in the Arkansas musloader season, my c V A Accurate Man. I had a tough hunt. I did not shoot the gun at

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this stuff. Um. Bear baiting is for the most part over even though we have I have successfully baited bear in early November here in Arkansas, and if I was going to do that, I would absolutely be using some north Woods gold Rush product, grease additive, and any any part of their product line you could use right now to make a loud scent on a bear bait to attract bears. Check him out north Woods Bear Products dot net. Hey, let's get to the conversation with old Rusty Johnson, the

white Tail Ninja. Rusty. They have an Instagram group called white Tail Warfare, so you can check them out on Instagram. Man, Rusty, this is uh, this has probably been a long time coming having you on the podcast because you you have been an influential figure in my white tail world for sure. Uh. We were just Kobe. We were just looking at that buck right there. That's the way I met Rusty Johnson two thousand seven. You how long have you scored for

Poping Young? So a score. Yeah. I started for Poping Young in two thousand four. I also score for buck Masters, and I started with them in not teen ninety five. It was the very first year that they started the record keeping. Uh yeah, and I started with him. I was in the very first class with the Masters in I'll be done. It was in the very first class. My score numbers number nine. Yeah, and uh I've done a lot for them and uh enjoyed every bit of it. Yeah.

Well so this is the way this. Let me tell you how Rusty so he scored that deer for me back in oh seven, and that was the first big deer ever killed, Rusty. I mean I'd killed it. I guess I'd killed the uh, you know, a hundred twenty five inch deer before, which for us is a big deal for Arkansas bowdive inch deer Northfolk, Arkansas. I'd spend my whole season every year trying to kill a deer like that, just to set the record straight. But that

deer was a hundred and sixty inch plus, dear. I remember I brought it to you and your dad up at uh what was the name of that sporting good story sportsman's warehouse. We used to call it the Temple. Yeah, we called it. We called it the Temple. Let's go to the Temple. That was back before the internet when we ordered everything online. But going to a sporting goods store was like a big deal. And you have me meet you up there. But anyway, we've been good buddies

ever since that. We've never really hunted together, but we've Every year we stay in touch about what's going on in and we sport some we score some contests together. Yeah you're you know, your official score now and everything. And yeah, we started doing that and I enjoy that every year when yeah, that's kind of annual rendezvous. Uh, when I meet up with you and your son. Rustin, who's a friend of mine too, is a good deer hunter. Um. But now, hey, Kolbe, this guy is a very good

deer hunter, like top level deer hunter. Really, he puts in, he puts in as much effort as anybody into inside the hunting seas and I do put a lot of time in. Yeah, and that's I mean, that's what I want to talk to you about. So, like, the cool thing about this conversation is it's gonna air tomorrow, which what's today? They of October sounds right, Um, So it's gonna come out on maybe the twenty ninth of October, which is like, I mean, this is the time that

we wait for all year long. Yeah, you're lucky that I'm here exactly. Yeah. Yeah, this was just to give a little context. This was totally spur of the moment. I knew something that Rusty was doing. I knew it was raining, and I was like, hey, would you come over here and let's talk about white tails. Yeah. I've been hunting daylight to dark pretty much every day, rain or not. And uh, I was gonna take just a little bit of a break and it was perfect time.

And yeah, well right on that. Uh man, what okay, let me ask you a question. Do you I was thinking yesterday because I've got a dear story. I want to tell you, Okay, that happened on October yesterday. Do you do you remember dates really well when it comes

to deer hunting? Uh? Not really, not specific dates. Okay, Like with deer, Like, could you like go through a catalog and say I killed that deer on that day, that deer on this day, saw that deer on that that Yeah, I could probably like take you to my trophy room and pointed each deer and say, hey, I killed that when November the seven, that whatever. You know.

I could probably do that, But as far as like seeing deer, I've either got to write it down or log it in my phone or something, cause I don't have that good memory. Well, I was gonna say, there's about a fourteen day window during the year that I remember dates really well, and that's from October about November t fifteen days there. And I can recall like like when close hunting buddies saw a buck, like my father in law followed him real close in white to Huney. Well,

I remember a deer that he killed on October. I remember like sightings and like anyway, well, I don't think I do. I just I think it's it's really interesting to me how like you can key in under this one little little little section of the calendar and be so focused on it. Here's what I Here's something I did yesterday resting was like, we're looking at some of the deer that I've killed just here in the office.

Like those deer easy to remember. What I want to remember and learn from is the big buck encounters that I had that I didn't kill the buck, like yesterday and last night. Because I came home from this encounter yesterday and I just thought, man, that was awesome. It was heartbreaking. And I know you've had some heartbreaks over the years. It was heartbreaking that I didn't kill this deer and I'll tell the story, but jeez, this buck read the script. Everything was perfect. It was a beautiful day.

I mean like it just Almo's just kind of like waters slipped through my hands and I I got I wrote down seven let me see one, two, three, four, or five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven dates of deer that have happened just like that over the years, some of them not to the day, some of them just to the year in the general time frame. But I started thinking about the big buck encounters that got

away from me. You've followed me, because you can learn just as much from those as you can the ones that are on your wall, Because like, I didn't kill that deer yesterday, but he he was there ready to be killed, but not. When's your favorite time to What's what's your favorite three days to hunt? Favorite three days? Yeah, I'd say, um, October thirty one, Novermber one Novermber second, that's my favorite, really, and that would be specifically for

northwest Arkansas places. I would say Arkansas. In Kansas, of course, I hunt Kansas law. I didn't draw this year, but I hunt Kansas almost every year, and those three days right there are my favorite. The money days. Huh. I mean that's that's just my favorite days. I mean I've had the most encounters. I probably killed the most dear

during those three days. Um. I probably couldn't nail down and tell you exactly why, but probably because it's right before they start really running around, you know, running five miles this direction, five miles that direction, because you know the days following that they really get wild. I mean they go to running around and stuff and they're not really there, you know, And to me, those three days

are my favorite. So you think you can kill there that you kind of know about almost are just they're a little bit more predictable. Like is that what you're saying? I think so, yeah, yeah, but that's my favorite three. I would I would have to totally agree with those dates. I mean, like, especially if you're here, have you have you heard people talk about the peak conception dates for northwest Arkansas? I've heard a little bit about do you

remember any of that? Because I know, okay, I just before I said this, I wanted to see if you had updated in Intel because there was a study that was done I don't know, ten twelve years ago maybe longer where they did a fetus study like road kill deer like pulling fetuses out, and they could track back conception and the peak conception dates in northwest Arkansas were like, uh, I want to say November the fifth through like November eight, which is sort of early, but it lines up real

well with what you just said and what I would would see as well in terms of you know, from about right now through about November the sixth or seventh, it's really good. Yeah. Now if you opened it up, not just pin it down to three three days, you know, it would be just what you said. Well, we go like October twenty five through you know, November the six seventh,

somewhere long and there. I mean there's a pretty good gap right there that I would like to be in a tree, you know, all day and you know I like to hunt all day long. I just don't like to get down. But that's that's what I would know you of as probably more than anything, Like there's characteristics of guys hunting. You love sitting all day? Tell me tell me your well, um, I don't, I don't know. I mean the strategy, My strategy goes really deep. You know.

I like to shed hunt and that right there is the key to my strategy. When I'm shed hunting, I'm picking up antlers, but I'm also looking at potential hunting spots, even kneeling down a tree, because I mean, there's no more proof than getting a shed in your hand that there's a big buck in that area. So I mean, he could be in a mile radius, he could be in a five mile radius. But when you picked that shut up, you know he was there. So I started

looking from that point. He was standing right there. So I started looking from that point, and I start looking at, you know, the lay of the land, and you know, you know, looking for their travel routes. And so if you can tell a whole lot, you know, like in February March, you can tell a lot about what they're doing. And that is where my strategy starts right there. So what do you tell me about what you're looking for

inside of your honey? If you could still it down and even describe the train a little bit rusty, just because I mean people are listen to this, you know, if they're I don't know, there's no people could be from anywhere listening to this, but like, what's northwest Arkansas? Like what are you looking at so. I mean, you know, these those aren't killed. Country bucks are really tough to hunt. I mean, I mean, if you're out there hunting, you're

not gonna see twenty thirty deer. A see, you may not even see a deer on an all day hunt. They are really tough. But you know, everybody talks about the traditional you know, pinch points, saddles, all that kind of stuff, and you know they're good, but that's not what I'm looking for. I mean, these bucks like to travel on the side of ridges. Uh. There may be a lot of ridges that come together and they travel through that where there they may not be on the top.

There may be scrapes on the top. You know, a lot of people like hunting scrapes, and I do hunt scrapes too, But I look off the beaten path. I mean, if you see like a really beat out trail coming around the edge of a ridge, you need to look either above it or below it. There'll be a real dim trail and that's where your buck is, and that may be fifty yards from the main trail. So you

gotta look at things like that. I mean, it's not as simple as just going out there and finding a pinch point finding a saddle, although they're good, but I look for different things like trails on the side of the hill and uh a lot of times that's tough to bowl hunt. You have to, you know, put a game plan together to see how you're gonna you know, intercept that dear, because it's tough to hunt on side of a hill or like in the bottom and a ditch or something. But I try to hunt different things

like that, and it's it's worked for me. What about doing like the the chase phase there up when these deer moving around so much, would you not hunt these real generic travel areas then? Uh? Yeah, I mean when they're chasing doughs and stuff, you know, the does are gonna be where food is. And when they're really chasing, I mean, I focus on food. I mean that's just that's just what I do. But I mean, I mean they're gonna go They're gonna run through pinch points and

stuff like that and saddles. I mean, is still down what you're saying, because like like like right now, I feel like I need to be hunting it just the dough you know, just like hunting where the does are and the does are going into these kind of normal areas. So like, right now, are you hunting down like hunting

kind of more obscure. Well, I'm right now, I'm hunting really close to a betting area, and I know the dos are beding there, and you know the place where they're feeding the most, it's probably about two yards from there. But I'm hunting really really close to the betting area, almost inside a little bit of the betting area. So, I mean, they got They're not gonna stand up all day long. I mean, they gotta bed at some point, and a lot of times they'll they'll just bed down

where they're eating. But I try to. I I really push the limits. I mean I don't really hunt traditionally. I mean it's it's hard to explain. Really, I mean, I just kidding. But now I'm not holding out. I'm just saying that, you know, I pushed the extremes. You know. I I times I hunt right in the middle of the betting area. And a lot of people say you're stupid for, you know, for just going in there and blowing deer out, But you know, and I may be stupid,

I don't know. But let's describe what you like this beding area that you're in. What does it look like? It's just a really high stem count. I mean, you know, you've got really open woods. Uh, and it's it's terrain driven to I use on X a lot. It's got topo on it. And you know they'll bed down on the side of ridges. It may not even be a high stem count, but they really like high steem count because it makes them feel safer. Yeah, but a lot

of times, uh, you know. And another thing is catching these big bucks in in the daylight and when they're chasing. I mean, they're gonna be chasing all day long, but why right before that those dates that I give you, you know they're not you know, cashman. Daylight's tough, I mean really tough. And you gotta get close to where they're bedding down to be able to catch them in that window right before they go back to bed in this big timber of the country like we're hunting, though.

I mean, it's hard. It's hard for me to just pin down right where they're beding though, Rusty, you know what I'm saying, Like just because it's like there's like you take this terrain like right here by my house, like there's real thick stuff just like right there, and then there's some open woods, but there's also real thick stuff like five yards from here. So it's like it's hard for me to know like exactly where they're bedding lock in open woods where you've got thousands of acres

and there's no like per se betting area. I used to own some property and it was just in Missouri, and it was just big timber, and when we bought it, the very first thing we did was cut. We've done some selective cut, but we also drew on the mout areas where we wanted to create our betting area and we just basically clear cutted it and made a bedding area. But in this hill country and these those arcs, you can't do that. So I mean you just have to

look for like specific terrain types. I mean like when I'm shed hunting, I find all kinds of bed and you would not believe the places where I find where they're bed And I mean some really steep ground, there may be a log they like laying by logs, uh, you know, blowovers, you know stuff like that. I mean I find all kinds of stuff like that, and and it gives me good ideas where to get when when

deer season gets here. Any consistency, and I mean, I guess shed hunting though you're finding that these are these deer's late winter. It is bad, so maybe they could change a little bit. Do you do you find consistency? I do, because I mean, you know, basically the food that they're eating now and they're eating late winter two. Okay, I mean that's just what I found. It's pretty similar.

It's per Then is there a consistent uh slope that they like would you say, out of ten times, would a buck bed on the south side five of those times? I mean, is there any consistency that you've seen? Well, I've heard people say south slope, north slope, all that, But in my my experience, I find sheds on on all of the random random couldn't kind of micro terrain feature, vegetation feature driven like so it's like it may be on the north side, but it's because there's cover and

the winds. Yeah, it may have been what the wind was that day, or you know what the weather conditions were that day. I mean they may bed on the north slope or the south slope could be weather driven to I don't know how to explain it, but I just say, you know, there's fifty fifty and I found a lot of sheds. I mean, that's one of my passions is shed hunting. That's that's probably second behind bow hunting. Is think about this like off and think about these

places that I hunt. And if you had to, if I told you, Rusty, go out there and sit down in a place while I where I will never find you. Like uh, because like where I hunt, and I'm learning. The older I get in, the more mature of a hunter become that I'm usually my own worst enemy, like in terms of actually executing strategy, Like on this farm I hunt over here, Um this hunt one bigger farm. It's about six acres. Man, I would do the same

thing every year. Now it's produced some success, but I mean what I want more success, Yes, But like I pretty much like if you were to map over the last I've hunted his property for almost twenty years, if you were to map my movements on that property, there would be big holes where I don't go, not intentions,

not like trying to preserve the place. But like I do the same thing every year, Like I hunt this stand to hunt this, then I scout here, I scout here, I scout here, and like if you kind of stepped back and looked, you would see these big holes. And I think probably that's dear no that. I mean like they they they respond to human pressure and go to places where humans aren't and it seems like kind of rational. Well, if you're a good deer hunter, you go into the

places where the other hunters won't go. I mean, we hear that on Facebook at all time. It's way harder than that, because it's not just walking further. It's more nuanced than that. Like there, I'm quite certain that deer use that terrain over there on that six nard acre property, Like I understand about twenty of their movement there, and that's probably made me an above average deer hunter. My point is I really the deer using that property in in in ways, and I don't feel like I'm capitalizing

on it as as I could. Does that make sense? Well, I mean, have you went in there in the off season and walked around and just looked. I spent a lot of time on that place in the winter, I mean, just because inch of it. Maybe probably not. Well, that's that's one thing that I strive to do, like the areas that I'm hunting, whether it's private, public, whatever. In the All season, I go when I learned every square inch of that property, and then after going in there putting.

It's a different than looking at a map than putting boots on the ground. In all Season, I put boots on the ground and I look at every square inch. Then I go back and I look at my mop and I'm I'm thinking, I'm putting everything together. It's like pieces of a puzzle and you look at it and you think, you know that deer is traveling this direction. I've been hunting over here. I move around a lot, just like yesterday. I was in the stand all day long.

I saw one really nice, really nice eight point, but it's the spot I've never hunted. I had never hunted this particular spot, and uh Rusting had some game cameras in there. My son and he said, can you go pull the cards out of that? And I said, well, I guess after I get down from this. I was hunting a different area and it was already dark. I

go in there. I check a lot of cameras at night, I mean, because I hunt daylight, were dark if I'm checking cameras during hunting season, it's at night, and a lot of times in the summer, i'll go at night. I won't get into all that right yet. But um so, this spot yesterday is a spot I had never hunted before. I like to move around a lot. We got a lot of different places and we've got them all mapped out, We've got them all pinned on on X and I've got trees picked out already. I hunt a lot out

of a climber space flee on public. There's a lot of mature timber, and you have good trees to climb with the climber, and it's really mobile. You don't have to put up a lock owner whatever you know. And I do carry lock owns into and put them up and then take them down when I use them. But uh yeah, this spot, your study spot I've never even hunted before. Wow. Yeah, yeah, Pretty saw Us had some cameras in there. He had some good bucks on camera, and uh so I said, I'm gonna go in there

and hunt. He's like, well, we've never even been in there hunting before. And I'm like, well, there's deer and there we got We've got videos to cameras. Two questions I've got. I want to talk about moving stands. I want to ask you a personal question. But but before that, how are you getting pictures of bucks? Because I know you're not using feed or any kind of scent attracting or anything in these places you're hunting. How are you getting pictures of bucks? Uh? A lot on scrapes. You know,

deer run scrapes a lot at night. Yeah, a lot of that activity at night. And that's and if you'll notice on our page, a lot of our videos are at night of bucks running scrapes. And that's not necessarily where we're gonna hunt. Where we're getting a good place to get inventory. It's it's a good place to get inventory. Is is primary scrapes and Uh, that's where we get a lot especially well, actually, we get a lot of our content as far as buck inventory on scrapes year round.

We have cameras on scrapes year round. It's not just they work on year round. I don't care if it's July. We've got bucks running scrap uh, working scrapes with velvet. I mean they work on year round. Man, I left a camera out last year, Um and it just so happened. You know. I changed the batteries like late winter, and I just was like, I just leave it up, and it was over scraped, incredible pictures of all stages of antler growth. Those dear work in it, like putting their

scent on that licking branch. I don't I don't necessarily know. I saw him paw on the ground. Do you see them? They're mainly working the licking bround and especially in the summertime. They won't pull the ground you seldom, but I palled the ground for him. I get that good, the soul of a roma coming up and stuff, and uh, I go ahead and brake it out and stuff. But you won't ever see them. But they even in velvet, they'll they'll put their antlers up in those licking branches and

stuff and work them good. I mean, we've got hundreds and hundreds of videos. I said, just yes. A couple of days ago, I made a post and I was sitting over a scrape. It was October the twenty or fifth, and uh, and I made mention it was like an Instagram story and I may mention I was sitting over a scrape. And after I said it, I wanted to come back and qualify my scrape idea. And that's like, and it's this, I'm not setting over that scrape hoping to kill a buck working that scrape. Now he might

do that. I'm I was setting in that spot because that was an area that that's a travel area, and bucks make primary scrapes in travel areas. I mean, it's a it's a scrape that's designed to communicate to the whole dear herd. And so they're gonna put that scrape not in some obscure place. They're gonna put it in a in a place that there's a lot of travel, a lot of movement, And so you're hunting there not for the scrape, but for the reason that the scrape

is there. That's a travel area. And because there used to be this idea that old bucks checking his scrapes as if he's gonna go out of his normal routine to go check a scrape, like like as if that buck put a scrape in like a weird spot that he usually wouldn't go to. No, you know, And I think that's also I believe a lot of bucks check scrapes and not even go up to the scrape Yeah, you know, they'll they'll go down into that scrape. It may be fifty yards and they'll they'll checked that scrape,

but they won't be on that scrape. So that that comes into some you know, hunting strategy right there, and that goes back to the like on the sides of heels and stuff. I mean that I think a lot of people are missing. I'll put a camera on a scrape, and I also go down you know a lot of times scrapes on top of a ridge or whatever. I'll go down below that scrape and find some of those real damn trails and put another trail camera out. But since trail cameras have come up, that's a lot of

our strategy right there. We run trail cameras three hundred and sixty five days a year, and we run a lot of them, and I mean we spend a lot of time, and that tells it tells a big story right there. Yeah, you know, there's a place that I hunt that is so it's it's super tough to hunt. But I've got I've got a bunch of trail cameras out over there, and I've almost decided that I'm just

happy getting good camera pictures of deer over there. And I'm not even worried if I ever kill a deer there, just because it's so much fun getting pictures of these deer. But now and in that place, I leave cameras out pretty much year round as well, and have been learning a lot. Um. Okay, here's here's where I was wanting to go back to you with. Is Okay, here's a question that a guy would have. He hunts in a

place more let's just say morning and evening. Maybe he doesn't sit the whole day, you know, he gets down and he sees moderate deer activity or or maybe not much deer activity. But he's got a lot of confidence in the spot because of sign because of the data he's gathered about this spot. It's the it's it's prime time. It's like, right now, do you move to another spot?

But let me build, let me build the case Even bigger is that James Lawrence, my old hunting buddy down the wash Toalls, that's kind of a master mountain deer hunter. He he's had this philosophy for years and uh and he said he likes to hunt a spot three days from daylight till dark. And he says, if you do that, you'll kill a deer. And he realized that now that

there may be that's not always the best way. But my other buddy, who is a very good deer hunter down in the mountains down there too, I have a ton of faith in. He wants to move. He's like Clay. If you go into a spot and sit for a morning hunt and don't see a deer, get the heck out of there and go somewhere else, even if there's hot sign. And I mean he he really likes to move, and so you know, he capitalizes on this like first time. And I'm not saying he wouldn't hunt a spot over

and over. I mean he he might, but like if he gets skunked, he's moving, and so he's capitalizing on this like first time. So he hits it because we all know the first time in is often really good. Where James would be like, find that sign and just stick it out. He said, you may not see a deer for two days, but on that third day you're gonna kill that buck. What do you think? All right, So there's a good question. There's people on both sides

of the fence on this deal. So one of the best deer hunters that I know was my dad, and he would go along with the three day philosophy, and that's kind of what I would. That's where I would lean towards. I like moving. Uh but I will if the sign is good and I know for a fact there's good bucks in that area, I'll stick it out. Yeah, I will. I mean, that's that's just what I do. I see, that's my philosophy to rusty is to try to just stick it out and not be validated by

deer sightings. I mean, like, because man, when you you gotta be able to sit through some tough sets to kill one. But listen to this, I've been doing that for a couple of weeks. I've hunted hard over here, and there's been a couple of reasons. I hunted hard early, which I usually don't quite as much. But I was getting pictures of this a big deer, and I felt like I could get him kind of in the pre rut on a feeding pattern. I hunted him a lot. Well, I I don't know where he's at now. He's not

anywhere around here that deer I was after. And uh so just yesterday, maybe this is a good time to tell my story. I just was like, I'm getting out of here. I'm going to a totally new place. And so I did that, drove over to another property I have access to, hunt, went in there, hung my tree saddle in a brand new spot. And that's the spot I had a lot of history with. Don't have a

single camera up over there. I mean, I don't mess with this far much just because of the I just go over there and hunt and I and I scout, and but I have twenty years of history, so I kind of knew where I wanted to go. Climb the tree. At three o'clock yesterday, the temperatures here yesterday, we're just incredible. It was high. Temperature was like forty five degrees. It was it rained most of the day. You were out in the rain. I didn't get in the stand till

three o'clock yesterday. And uh, I'm and where I was sitting is that. Okay. There's three features that funnel these deer into this pinch. It's the back corner of a pretty big field, okay, And we all know that deer rather than you know if they're going from point A to point B and there's a field in between them, and they don't want to walk across the open field. They'll hit the back corners of these fields, you know,

to a back corner. Usually there's a lot of deer sign so there's a corner, but there's also a big deep holla that comes up from the other side of this field. That so there's a big deep draw that heads up right there, deep enough that funnels deer. And then there's a mouth that is on a third feature that funnels these deer into about a probably an area that's a hundred yards wide by eighty yards wide, So it's not like a tiny little thirty yard wide pinch.

It's fairly good sized pinch. But I've got kind of in the center of it, and I climbed up in my tree saddle. I'm using it. I'm using a tethered phantom saddle. Have you looked at those at all? I've not. I've actually been thinking about getting the saddle. I started pretty cool, But they're pretty cool there there. I've used them a lot this year and last year too. I like them because their mobility. Um So I just got up a seventeen eighteen feet three o'clock was in the

tree hunting. At three thirty, I see a doe coming down the hill just I mean coming like right right to me, you know, within shooting range. And uh, the way she was moved moving I could it didn't strike me as odd. But what struck me as odd was how of a direct line she was taken, and at the time of day she was. You know, like your first the first time you see a deer, you you

gather so much data. I thought it was unusual that she was on her feet at three third in the afternoon and that she was moving with that much intentionality at three thirty in the afternoon, because she was headed towards kind of these fields. Well, I see movement behind her about forty yards, and I see a deer, Rusty, that was big enough that immediately, without even seeing his horns, I knew that it was a shooter buck. And for me, a shooter buck is a pretty good one. I'm not

I'm not measuring inches. I'm probably a lot like you, Rusty. We're not We're not necessarily saying we're after a hundred and forty buck. We're after a mature ozark, four year old type deer. I mean, is that what you're after in I saw this deer, and I mean without even seeing his horns, I said, that's him. I mean, I grabbed the bowl and and then he comes into full view, you know, it probably sixty yards and I can just see a full rack, I mean, just a good rack.

And it I ended up watching him for a long time. It's a nice probably point which is for around here is I'd spend my whole season to kill that deer, big body, big neck. And the wind was blowing out of the north. And so if I'm sitting in a tree just like this right here, the wind has hit me in the side of the face, so it's blowing. The winds blowing off to my right, okay, and so I'm looking at all this in front of me. It's

not an ideal wind, but it's a pretty good wind. Well, just the way that deer was coming, she came in the worst possible way for my wind. And if the buck had been right behind the dough, like if he had been right on her, I think I would have had a shot at the deer. But the dough was about forty yards in front of the buck, so the dough cuts my wind. She slams on the brakes and she she doesn't freak out, She just she stops. And what does the buck do? Obviously he stops, and so

he's forty yards behind her. The dough is at thirty ISHU yards right here, and I mean, I'm locked and loaded waiting for this, but I'm ranging, you know, because this does coming. I'm ranging the dough because I know that buck's gonna be right there. I mean, just the epitome of a white tail situation. And um, but she slams on the brakes and then I looked back to him and he is actually forty five yards from me,

but I mean he's on red alert. And long story short, she milled around and never spooked, but she just turned and just kind of cat walked back out of there. And uh, the buck jumped the fence and milled around, and I probably watched them for a total of five minutes, and finally they just went back the way they came. She absolutely smelled me and I never had a shot at the buck. I mean not even a chance of a shot. I mean it was just too thick. Um. But uh, I said all that to say that was

my new spot. You know, I jumped to somewhere new and was just amazed at the the deer activity. Now, I end up seeing seven deer throughout the evening, which to me for that area was just average. I actually anticipated seeing more dear than that there because there's a

lot of deer over there. Um. But anyway, because we were talking about do you set in the same spot over and over, because I thought about back here, just setting back and just like, no matter what, I'm hunting back there for thirty days straight because I know there's a good one back there, but I don't know. That's my story, So I was I benefited for the jump move. That's why I like bowl hunting so much is nothing is a given. It is a huge challenge and you know,

just small things. I mean, if you had a gun, my dear's dead. I mean that's why I like bow hunting so much, because everything has to go right. You have to get them in close. And I like that challenge. Yeah, will you both hunt through the rifle season. I will, Yeah, I will strictly bowl hunt. Uh. It's not that I'm against gun hunting. I mean I love gun hunting, but I am a bowl hunter. I did draw a tag special tag this year. For a two day muzzloader hunt

that I might do. But even with that tag, I can still go in there with a bowl and I probably will because yeah, because I mean, I'm just I just like the challenge so much. You know, if I kill that buck with a bowl me personally, it just means more to me than if I kill it with a gun. Um. We were raised in the same vein rest of you know my history. But in the last seven years I have hunted with a hunting with a muzzloader and with a rifle more than ever had in

my life. And and I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed the liberation. Like my dad is just like your dad. Like my dad didn't even own a dear rifle. He wouldn't let us hunt with guns when we were growing up. And I I love that, Uh, I I enjoy I enjoy carrying a muzzloader or something. But I'm I'm gonna be getting back to my bow hunting roots a little bit more. Let's say, I might be giving away my age here, but I think I started shooting a bow in nineteen

seventy seven. No, you didn't, not seventy seven. You're not that old. M I wouldn't have guessed it. How old are you? I'll be forty nine in November. Okay, So you were like, Okay, I'm not mistaken. I believe because I asked him a while back, when when did I start first, you know, start shooting, and he told me about around that age because he he's a huge, huge bowl hunter, huge bowl hunter, and I just that's how

I was brought up, you know, So it stuck. Well, I'm ten years behind you because I, Uh, I started shooting the bow when I was in the third grade. That's when Dad bought us compound bows. And uh, I would have been in the third grade in like seven. Yeah, uh, but I'm forty one. Yeah, I'm pretty old too. I started rusting, I believe when he was five, just a little stick bowl, you know, and then he just kind of graduated up. I think the first animal he killed

with the bowl was a turkey. Yeah. I thought that was pretty pretty good. I think he was ten maybe shot a turkey with a bowl. I just draw uped him off. I had a blind set up and come back, I said, well, did you say anything? I went to pick him up. He said, well, yeah, I killed the turkey. I'm like what at that point, I don't think I'd even killed a turkey with a bowl, But yeah, he shot a turkey and he's shot deer ten years old with a bowl. Yeah. He's bigger than your average kid though,

I mean he could pull back pretty good poundage. You know, he's bigger than your average kid right now. Yeah, he's six three, about three fifty. But anyway, man, that's awesome, Kobe. Do you have any questions, I mean, like specific hunting questions for him or anything, Um, you think about it. If you don't, then don't you think about it. I mean I did have one thought, like, what if you go into an area, like I'll just go and hunt

with my dad some somewhere at some point. So if you don't have time to scout or anything, if you're just going in and just gonna hang something or sit somewhere, a look for If I didn't have time to scout it, I'd go strictly by the map. Okay, I'd go strictly by the maybe looking for train features. Yeah, just train features on the map. If I if I had zero, if I'd never been in there, never had time to scout it or anything, like you said, and I just look on the map and say, hey, we're gonna hunt

right here. Yeah, that sword for me. Yeah. We Uh. One time, my dad's got this habit of find calling the local game warden, talking to him, getting some information, and so there was this one spot we were hunting for the first time. He was like, the game warden just said, you know, it's public land, but there's only like you have to walk a long way to get to the other side of this this water feature. If you're just hopping the water feature and jump over, you

probably do pretty good getting the boat. Yeah, He's just like getting a boat and hop over, And so we did that and it worked. On the map. I saw the spot where, uh, the water feature kind of horseshoes around and so it kind of pinches at the top, and there's like a lot of white oaks in the horseshoe area. And I just walked in there and saw a buck and didn't get a shot at him. But I end up getting a dough that afternoon and and

a hug. So if you, I mean, if you didn't have any time whatsoever and it was a shotgun hunt like that or whatever, you can just go by the mountain. You probably do pretty good. And back to the game warden deal, that's a really good idea. I do the same thing. I know all the game wardens, and I talked to all of them all the time. They see a lot, they know a lot, and most of them will share some information with you. I mean they're on

they're driving these roads, you know, all day long. If they say a big buck across the road and they're like, hey, i've seen a big buck a cross back there, that'll give me a starting point. And usually because of the nature of the their job and the time when they have to work, usually a lot of them aren't big hunters. Well I don't want to I'm not saying they're not big hunters, but they're not hunting at normal times, so they might be willing to give you some intel because

they're using it for themselves that weekend. You know, some guys I know some good game hunter game wardens, but I know my dad starts hunting a lot heavier when you start seeing more gear hit on the road too. At the little factors. Yeah, um, what about Colin Rusty, what's uh like? What do you what's your what's your give me your bullet point? I'm a huge fan of calling. Uh, I use a grunt call. I use a little rattling bag.

I never get real aggressive unless I'm in Kansas. Around here with a rattle bag, I'll just barely like just like tickling them. You know, I never get real aggressive in Arkansas. I just don't. In Kansas, I do. I mean, I just smash that thing and they'll come running. But uh, around here, I haven't found that. I know that I know the answer. I mean, like I could tell you the answer, but yeah, it doesn't add up. Why doesn't work here? I really don't know the answered. This dear fight,

these dear breedes. We got the fighting on camera all the time. We set all our cameras to video mode, and I like a lot video mode a lot better. But I mean, we've got buck fights on camera on game camera and stuff all the time, just all out. You know, it's not because what what the typical talking point would be would be, well, the buck doe ratios are so bad in Arkansas or wherever that you know, the bucks just aren't fighting as much. They're not responding

to fighting sounds. Where if you had like a one to one buck ratio and there's some of that, that's true, but we have decent buck to Doe ratios and lots of places like It's not like it's not like totally off kilter here. Uh yeah, I mean, I just I just haven't had much luck aggressive rattle bag. I mean just a lot stuff. You know, it works better. I don't rattle a whole whole lot in Arkansas. I just I just haven't had to say us Kansas different story.

But here and I've got I've had every grunk call you know that has been made just about and there's one grunt call that I've got that works better than all the rest. I'm not gonna say what it is. I gotta tell us. I'm not gonna say I've got my truck right now. I'll show it to you in

a minute. But but there there is I mean, I don't know if it's just me or what, but there's this one game grunt call that I mean, I I will not use any other, but this time in the market for a good grunk call, well this is a good Actually I actually looked into uh a grunt call today. It'd be interesting to see if it was the same one you're talk It's not it's not a mainstream, but this one is really obscure. It's this is different than any other grunt call that you've ever I like, I

like the sound of that. Um okay, what about when doy? When do you call dear when? Uh? Well, like yesterday I called to that I saw a big hunting forty eight point I mean that is I mean, it's a it's a monster for an Ozart hill country buck. So uh, I called to him with a grunt. And these bucks are not dumb when they get that big, they are not dumb. And I'm a lot of time real hesitant

about calling tom when they're in sight like that. But he was headed away from me, and I thought, well, you know, I what if I got to lose, I'm gonna try to get him to turn and come back. And when I he I got his attention. He took a few steps towards me. And what is it? What do you think he did? He craned his neck and looked and looked and looked. He looked and looked and looked, and then he just started circling down Winn And I knew. I knew as soon as he started that direction, I

knew i'd messed up. I mean it has either just let him walk out of sight or or try so you feel tried in it. And so he got you know, you didn't see him, but he got down windows. What what he did? Here's what he did, Clay is when I grunted at, I just done a lot grunt got his attention. Then I've done a like a like that like you. And he started walking to me and these are open woods and he stops and he's looking, well, he doesn't see that, dear, and he's not stupid, so

he starts circling down Win. I believe if I'd had a decoy, I don't hunt with a decoy, hardly any in Arkansas. In Kansas it's a whole different ball game. I don't think a decoy would work. I think a decoy would have worked. He was looking for that buck. If I'd have had a buck decoy there, I believe he would have come in the decoy too much. Even in Arkansas, you think it would have worked, I think it my I think there would have had a better chance.

But would you have not spooked every dough that came within sight of that decoy before the buck got there? Na there'll be some little spook ill spook bucks and everything, but man, when a mature buck, when a mature buck gets out there, they can't stand it. See, that's the hard part I have with decoys. And it's at least Arkansas, and I understand how they work in the Midwest, but my experience it's limited. But I have said over a decoy and it's spooked every single deer I've ever since.

It will mess with your as much as I've I've I've spent a lot of time in Kansas, and when I'm hunting here in Arkansas, like this year, I did not draw Kansas tag, so I'm gonna hunt arks. If I tag out in Arkansas, I'll go buy me in Missouri license. It's over the counter. But it messes with your mind a little bit because I've had so much success in Kansas. And then when you're grunting at a deer like a deer I saw yesterday, and you're thinking in your mind, Man, if I just had a buck decoy,

would he come in or would he not? What he spooke? Would he come in? I don't know. In Kansas, it's a no brainer. I would have that decoy out there, But in Arkansas, it's it's messing with your mind a little bit, you know, because I've not had success in Arkansas with a decoy. I've tried them, and I just don't. I've just stop using them in Arkansas. Okay, let me tell you. Let me tell you my thoughts on calling, or at least a simplistic like section of thought on calling.

I pretty much grunt at every deer that I see that is not coming within bow range. I mean like like and again this is like one little like if I'm if I'm sitting there, my instinct like, if I see a deer that is skirting me that is not gonna come within bow range, I'm gonna back, I'm gonna hit him. And most of the time it's gonna And what I find strange enough before the rut, most does will come to a grunt call. Yeah, Like if you grunt if you see a dough out there at sixty

yards that's not coming by you. And I may not even be wanting to shoot a dough, but I'm wanting to draw all these deer as close to me as possible, just in case there's other deer with them or dear. I mean you know, And so I've just had a ton of success, especially pre rut, like before October the twenty, when they're just on kind of feeding pattern, does responding to grunt calls. Um. I've grunted plenty of big buck, you know, some of these deer right here, we're grunted

in um. But here's but it doesn't always work. Yesterday, now, I tried to salvage the spook deer yesterday. Once I knew they were for sure leaving, I you know, grunted at that big buck and it didn't work. You know, he craned his neck and looked, and but they ended

up moving off. An hour later, I saw a younger buck that I was pretty certain I wasn't gonna shoot, but just I just saw it racked kind of probably two year old type deer skirting sixty seventy yards away, not gonna be within both range, perfect candidate to grunt in. I grunted that dear, and he stopped and looked at me and then just kept going like yeah, he he didn't want he didn't hunt a bit about it. A lot of times two year old boy they'll just come running.

They'll run right to the base of your tree, you know, and they're looking around. Yeah man, mature bucks. Man, I'll tell you gotta be really careful. They're super super smart. Yeah. Um. Talking about rattling, I was about to say, and if I had time to think about it, I think in Arkansas, I've rattled up two bucks like mature bucks, like straight up rattled them up, um, but kill. I couldn't have killed either one u them with a bow I tried.

I mean, because they come in on full alert, stop out there at thirty or forty yards facing you, because you just you're the point source of this sound. And they stand there for ten seconds and don't see another deer and they turned around leave. So it's not effective. If we were an open, big open country, and you know, maybe could had a decoy, and that's a place where a decoy would have worked, but I wouldn't trying to

kill a deal. I was trying to. You know, every time I rattled in deer, I had set of rattling horns, and both times was with horn actual horns. You know, it was like the hunt was kind of dead, and so I was like, I'm just gonna clack these horns together and no telling how many times. I've done that and it didn't work. Twice and thirty years of bo hunting worked, you know. Um, but neither time did I kill the deer because I didn't have a decoy out.

I and and I wouldn't had a decoy out because it's just I was hunting a travel area like I was expecting to kill a buck just walking through. I didn't need a decoy. You see what I'm saying. It's kind of like mishmash strategies some some of these big bucks,

even in the Midwest. The biggest buck I ever killed, I was hunting with a decoy, and two days in a row he stopped eighty yards from the decoy and we just would not come in, and oh yeah, he saw the decoy and everything, and you know, I got to thinking, you know this, every time I had a sighting of this deer, he was always by himself. He's not got any broke nothing, or he's always by himself.

He's like a loner, a real passive type deer. So two days in a row he stopped at eighty yards from a decoy and just would not come in at all. He just skirt around and and leave like he was scared of it or something. So after two days of that, I took that decoy and I throwed that thing in the woods and I killed that buck the next day. Killing the next day. Now what did he want to come that way and the decoy was bumping in the way. Yeah, so he just walked by it. Yeah. I didn't even

have to call him in or nothing. It was in a trail. I was in a travel corridor I was at. I mean, I was hunting a field edge and there's a trail coming across this field. And man, I had I passed up I think nine or ten poping young class deer are bigger because I was hunting this deer. He ended up scoring one, six and eight. So, I mean I had passed up several really nice bucks. I was video on them everything. They were interacting with the decoy and everything. But this buck here, the one I

was after, he just would not come in. He's real passive. And I took that decoy, I throwed that thing in the woods, and I killed him very next day. I'll be daring. Yeah. So this that's all podcast is about. How don't use a decoy, ye, don't rattle, don't do all this. No, that's good intel man. I've called a lot of deer in by grunting or using a bleak call to Yeah, yeah, man, that's good stuff. What do you tell me, you're don't. Don't tell me what you

think people want to hear. Tell me the truth, rusty um about scent control. Okay, because listen, here, here's my here's my philosophy. Like there, when scent control products first started coming out, the good hunters that were already doing a whole bunch of stuff right that were taking white tail honey really serious, started using the stuff because they

wanted to become the best that they could be. So the guys that were using scent control all of a sudden were the guys that had a ton of success in the correlation point. Oftentimes there's correlation between things between data points that seemed like they're connected, like white tail hunting success equals using all the commercial scent control products success, and so you make this connection, But really the correlation isn't that. The correlation was that these guys were doing

a whole bunch of other stuff right now. I'm not anti scent control. At different times I have been. I made it. I made a facebook post commented on it, Well, and I'm not I'm not totally convinced because the last eight nine years I have used basically zero cent control. Let me ask you this. You believe science, right, Okay, I heard you say it on a podcast one time. I love science. You know what this is, don't you. It's chemical signs. I mean, so it works. I believe

it helps. I'm not gonna say, you know, and go out and buy all this stuff and you're guaranteed that a deer is not gonna til you and it all and it. And it goes back to the argument about wind. I mean, I mean there's I have a lot of I guess off the wall or whatever opinions, But like the spot I hunted yesterday, I'm not even worried about the wind. I didn't even pick the tree that I

was in based on wind direction or anything. I I picked the tree that I hunted out of where I thought I would get a shot at a deer the wind. I mean, if it's a perfect If I've got a perfect north northwest wind or whatever, and there's a perfect tree here, and I think all the nine of the travel is going to be in this one direction. Yeah, I can use the wind in my advantage. But most of the time I don't even worry about the wind. But it's not because of these products. Well, okay, so

what do you do though, Well I do. I stayed to try to say it's clean as I can there is does that mean by Washington? So you you're talking about like sent free showers, literally taking cent free showers, but not necessarily a hunting industry sent free soap and not. I do not use a hunting industry deoderant. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say what deoderant. I use our anti Prussian whatever you want to call it. I do

have a few secrets, but I do use some stuff. Uh. But there is one thing that I do use a lot of. And I learned this in the eighties from my dad. I always told him, you know, you should have back in the early eighties, you should have started you've been a millionaire now if you'd have invented some of this sent control and stuff. But he started using baking soda. And I do use a lot of baking soda. Yeah, in your clothes, my dad, in my clothes, I've done

the same thing. Maybe put it on on myself. So that is one thing that I use in bacon soda. You know, you just go to the grocery store and bike because it absorbs sent It absorbs scent. Yeah. What about your club? Okay, if if we were to go hunting together this afternoon, would you hunting these clothes you're wearing. Rusty's wearing camo right now? He just came out of the woods. Yeah, done some scouting today and uh, I just happened to these are some pants at a company

sent sentis to try out. And but would you go sitting a stand right now? Where? No, So you do you have do you carry do you have sent controlled boxes in your truck with? Okay, that's why I want to get out. I keep my clothes clean, uh, and I wash them and I use a lot of baking soda to wash my clothes. And I do use some

commercial uh scent free wash for clothes. Uh. And it's so as I get them out if I can, I like the air drome outside if I can in the right place, and then then I've got our either bags or containers that if a deer had come down wind of you yesterday would have smelled you. Uh. May or

may not. I had a few deer come down wind that did not smell me, and uh, it's it gets a little deeper than just uh, you know, sent controlling yourself, you know, like I mean the wind direction, you know, what drifts, you know, all that kind of There's a lot that goes in here. Here's my thoughts on it. The thermals, Like the way I don't get winded very often in the morning when thermals are rising because of heating,

you know, raising air temperature. You know, A lot of the hunting that I'm doing, especially not around here, is uh mountain hunting where I'm walking back into place is a riding a mule in warm temperatures. And sent control is just a joke. If you come hunt it, if you hunt it with me back in there, you might as well smell like a toilet. I mean, like it doesn't matter. That is really what I was poking holes at. Like, you know, don't tell me you gotta use sent control

to kill deer back in there. Or bear. I mean a lot of my bear hunting is that way. I mean, I am covered and sweat multiple times per day. Can't take a cent free shower, can't my clothes. So but now that I'm so, I'm kind of coming back. So basically when I my dad instilled in a so deep about I mean, it just made hunting so hard to be sent free. You know, keep washing clothes, only wearing

clothes one time. It's keeping them sent free boxes. Like I was in that for so long at the peak of White Tail sent control stuff when it first came out, and the late nineties through the two that when I started kind of getting out on my own, I was like, man, all you gotta do is hunt the wind and you don't have to worry about all that stuff. That's really the way I've operated for the last fifteen years, and that it's not I don't feel like it's costed me a ton of deer because I've killed a lot of

good deer hunting that way. But I'm starting to go back to the other direction, especially on this hunting that's you can control things. And for me, I live in two different worlds. I live in this like public land, backcountry world that I love, but also live in this world where I'm hunting like farms that I'm driving my truck up to and walking two hundred yards to a deer stand like in in in that controlled environment, I'm beginning to come back to, I might as well do

sin control. What do you think at why not just say that? I mean, it just helps just a smidge to me, it's worth doing. Well, let me play the Devil's out of here. I want you to convince me of something different. So I'm not trying to like squelch your idea. But I've done everything to a t and

still had a deer smells you. You cannot if it's like all the energy and effort that I put into white tail deer hunting, if thirty percent of that effort is going towards scent control, that that doesn't work a lot of the time. I'm just like, I'm cutting that thirty percent off. Do you understand what I'm saying? And so that's basically what I've done for long, for ten

years or longer. But I'm coming back to a place where it's like, well, like in yesterday is a great example, like if I had because I did nothing for sent control yesterday other than walk through a cow pie on the way up there to come to my ground cent because I was hunting the cattle farm, which is stellar ground sin control, Yeah, just that the deer don't smell me where I walk. I'm that farm. I walked through Colpivers.

You know, I had the thought yesterday if I had done everything to a t because I didn't sweat going in there. It was cold, I was close to my truck, I didn't have I didn't have to you know, I wasn't covered in sweat. Uh. You know, would that have? Would that dough have walked through my scent which she had just kind of spooked just a little bit and walked through and then the buck come through. And I think the answer that question is maybe she would have,

But I'm not. And I could have done everything and spend all that energy and time and then they got the exact same results. So yeah, I mean I can agree with everything you're saying. You know, I do a lot of scent control and do everything that I can do. You spray, I do, Yeah, and I and I it's proven that that stuff kills bacteria. I mean, it's proven that it kills bacteria. Will it kill all of it? Probably? Will it killed all of the sin on your clothes?

Probably not? What if it killed just twenty of it? And that just a little bit was just enough to get a deer five yards closer for a shot. Do you what's your view on carbon clothes? Man, I don't have a lot of recent intel. I've not paid any attention to it in a long time, so, you know, I was really skeptical of it. And I had a friend of mine at work say, we were talking about stuff like that. He said, Man, when I was over in Iraq, he said, we wore carbon suits. He's like,

they were just real thick carbon suits. And he said we would wear them things for like two weeks without taking a bath. And he said nobody stunk. But he said, when you took that thing off, he said it it was just about making puke. I mean, the odor was so bad when they took the suit off, it was containing all that sent I'm just thinking, man, I mean,

there there must really be something to it. That's the science. Yeah. So, and I got to thinking, if you went the carbon route, I feel like you would need the you know, the pants, the shirt, the head cover. I mean, you'd have to really cover everything up. But even if you covered say fifty of your body with it, and it's absorbing of your scent, that might help just enough. Yeah, And I

think that's a great argument. And that's why i wanted to talk to you about this because I'm wanting someone to I'm not happy with my sent control regiment for when I'm in a controlled hunt. A lot of my hunting is uncontrolled. I'm back country stuff. You just in warm weather stuff too. Boy. I mean, if you do all that sent control and you break a sweat on the way in there, all that is like you are a Merino wool, don't you. Yeah, that's a natural odor in hibit or, isn't it. Yes, it is so. I

mean I do wear some too. I don't like the way it stays wet for I mean, like if you get it wet, it takes forever to dry it out. But I mean I do were especially undergarments, No, I don't that was actually known for drying out quick. But that's what it's known for. Absolutely drying out quicker than cotton, way quicker. I know. But I mean, if dry out faster than cotton, but it won't be Some synthetic material

dry really fast. I've been wearing the synthetic material under on skin undergarments, and I mean they dry out just like that, and then I put my marino wool on it. It seems like it takes forever to dry out compared to cotton. Yeah, I agree with you. Yes, yes, well, Rusty, me and you both need to well you make you're you're still kind of drying out from along along couple of days of hunting. Yeah, I'm gonna try to go

hunt this afternoon, last couple of hours. Uh but uh no, man, So you're you guys on Instagram or White Tail Warfare Yeah, White Tell Warfare so you can follow Rusty and his son Rusting. And our marketing manager is Dalton Clink Skills. Yeah. Yeah, it's us three and uh, we have a very successful page. We're mainly Instagram. We are on Facebook two, but our main deal is Instagram right now, and we're working with

some great partners and it's it's going really good. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, you guys post a lot of uh video footage and stuff and truck camera truck camera footage. Our main deal is is trail camera stuff. I mean, we really have a lot of trail camera content and it's pretty cool stuff and and viers really like it. So everything white too,

everything white till yep. Well, man, I'm glad. I'm really glad I caught you, just barely caught you in the moment when you come by, and anyway, awesome to have you on And not like I said, I have a town of respect for you, Rusty, I've always said it for you as a as a as a hunter, as a as a man, I I've I've learned a lot from you. Your you really every year you inspire me, man, because I'll text Rusty it like noon and He'll be like, I'm in a tree yeah, and I'll be like, god

it I gotta get in the tree. Yeah. I'm I'm pretty hardcore. I mean I live for this stuff. We do it. Yeah. You take off a lot of time this time, do Yeah? I have. I still have a full time job. Uh Dalton has a full time job in rusting, is in his second year of law school right now. So uh so do you take off like right now? Yeah, I've basically right now, I've got thirty days in the row off And so I mean I will be blogging the hours yeah. Yeah. And I'm I'm pretty picky. I mean, if if I shoot one, it's

gonna be a decent It'll be poping. Young size are bigger, you know. But yeah, thirty days of vacation right now, just started hunting. Yeah all right man, Well good luck to you, and uh I appreciate it, man, Yeah, thank you for inviting me here and discussing some stuff. Yeah, keep the wild lass wild, because that's where the big bucks love. I try