Squirrels, Feists and Mules

American wilderness to bear. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation, who will also bring you into some of the wildest country on the planet chasing battery. On this episode of the Bear Hunting Magazine Podcast, I sit down with my good friends Trail Autry and Michael Lanier and Brent Reeves and we talk about a squirrel hunt that we went on last Friday January in National Forest here in Arkansas,

and we were using mules. We were using mules as our primary mode of transportation, and we were using these fast dogs to treat these squirrels. We had a fantastic time and we actually made a film about this hunt that's gonna be released sometime next week in around uh January eight, sometime in that range, we're gonna release this film about squirrel hunting with face mules and it's a ton of fun. So on this podcast you're gonna hear a few excerpts from our actual hunt, but we're just

gonna sit down with Trey and Michael and Brent. We're gonna hash out while they hunt with feist, hunting on mules and just some good stories. I think you'll enjoy this, and many of you might, uh well, if you ask this question, maybe this is in the podcast for you. But the question would be, if this is the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast, why are they talking about squirrel hunting

with mules? And the answer is, Man, this podcast is so much fun because we've just got liberty to to to report on stuff that we're doing, and the bears are asleep right now, and man, we're having fun and other parts of the outdoors and and we're the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. We're gonna be talking about whatever we're doing and just bringing to you positive things that are going on in the outdoor world. And hey, let me tell you what's going on that's positive right now in

the Ozark Mountains. Of Arkansas. It's some squirrel hunting. It was tough. There's not much natural food this year. Squirrels are There's just not a lot of squirrels, and the squirrels that are here, they're hard to find. But we had a great time. We made this film. We cooked these squirrels that we did kill. We cooked them in some bear fat from some lard that I rendered down back in the fall. You're gonna enjoy this episode at

the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast Squirrels fice mules. How within ten minutes of dropping the dogs off the mules, they were treated. There's very little natural food in the Ozarks this winter, and squirrel hunting has been extremely tough. We were happy to get a quick treat. Here he is, he's timber, and Michael h here he is. Bam. One shot to see that Ozark Mountain gray squirrel right there.

Some people might look that I'd appreciate it. The three boys, dude, don't you Oh yeah, oh yeah, hey keep talking like he's doing you know it. Today we are all recovering from our from our hunt. Just a few days ago. We went on a We went on a squirrel hunt, and we use mules we use feists. We were trying to cap lies on a lot of a lot of different trained animals to give us a little bit of an advantage over these Ozark Mountain squirrels. But today I've

got to my left, my good buddy Trey Autrey. I've got Caddy corner Brent Reeves, who was with us on this hunt. And we got our other buddy, Michael Lanier. Um, hey, you guys, introduce yourself. Just Tray, tell us who you got. You gotta start, Tray, you gotta start. I'm try all, Trey. Uh. I live in Prairie Grove out of Cove Creek. Uh, master squirrel hunter. I wouldn't go that far, but I do like it and enjoy it. And uh, well what's a great place to live a lot of things to

do outside? And uh, you know which where I live in? I guess distance wives to that National Forks we were in, and I actually the place I live. It's kind of like a golfer living on the course because I can go outside and do anything I want to within about five minutes. Man, I forgot how rugged that country is over there. I mean, just driving down the county road

to get to your house. You drive past some bluffs that looks like something out of Lord of the Rings was a big old you know, these these these limestone bluffs and the oz artist they crumble over just geologic time, and then they if they're on the north side of the ridge, they'll just be these huge boulders the size of your car, covered in moss. But there's some pretty country out there. There's not much dirt. There's a lot

of rocks and a lot of hills. And that's why I got that new That's why you got that mule. I'm not gonna walk too much anymore if I can have it. And Michael, who tells who you are? Michael, and there living in a prairie grove? Average squirrel hunter, I mean try quite a bit. You guys are, I mean you're a big time squirrel hunters. I mean these guys, these guys hunt all the time. You train dogs, you

keep dogs. And now, Michael, you grew up on horses, but these are trays mules that we use the other day. And uh, now you'd rather you'd probably rather just walk on foot though in most cases that right, Well, I mean last week was good. Just the squirrels are so thin you're you're going so far between a tree, which is it's nice to be riding something, but when they're down and thick walk hunting, I enjoy it. Yeah, And Mr Brent Reeves, I am pretty well the brains behind

this whole operation so far. I'll do all of my own stunts and on this wonderful day, fun eventful day, I was tasked with carrying the camera and filming this for the episode that's coming to us, didn't meet Kicked by Mule. I was on a four wheeler and it was it was kind of unique as the first time I had hunted or filmed a hunt like that where my transportation was different than everybody else's. So it was

it was cool. I could get ahead of you guys and get some probably got some some shots that we wouldn't normally have gotten. You know, it would have took a lot more time. You know, I was able to go around. Luckily we were hunting where you know, it was permissible to do that, so so it was it was it was good, it worked out good. Um, we

we we can do that. So what we're what we're talking about here is that last Friday, January eight, Brent filmed and I filmed some, but we filmed squirrel hunt on mules and like, we just watched the video with with Michael and Trade. They saw it for the first time and it's a on video. It's it's a lot of fun. And it was kind of a logistical challenge doing all the filming and still hunting. But I think it'll be it'll be pretty fun. But really, what I want to talk to you guys about is your dogs.

Tell me whoever whoever wants to wants to go. Oh, they're pointing back and forth to each other. Now, so these fights, Like so inside a squirrel hunt, there's gonna be these categories of dogs and they're typically not hounds. We've talked about coup hunting in the past, and hound is a bigger animal that's gonna bark on the track and then also it's gonna bark on the tree. These fights, Well, Michael, what are what are the general categories of dogs that

are squirrel dogs. There's fists and cur you know, a fist is typically I think the max is around eighteen inches pounds. I that's like a stand under eighteen inches, under thirty pounds. I believe I could be wrong. Uh, definitely on an authority on the subject. And then occurs a little bit bigger dog. I believe the fist was recognized by the u k C. And is that right? I believe that recently. Yeah, I think so. I could be wrong, but because that's super recent. Yeah, I mean

my dogs are mixed up. Dog gets champ bread fast, uh Feller down in Alma, Bill Douglas got him from her. Yeah. He pretty much raises a lot of the chimp bread fast in this area. And then James Quick down in I hold down close to Waldron's got some Yeah, yes, sir, So kurd dogs and fights are pretty much gonna be your square dover brand. Is that your experience? Yeah? Yeah, you know I grew up in Southeast Arkansas and kurb Kur and combination of curring fast was what is all

historically always have been. You know, I see a wide a wide variety or large variation and color and size and stuff with feist. Is there any consistency like your your fast is like slid black, got a little bit of white on it? Maybe? Is that right? Will be different colors in every litter, Okay, So and then and then Susie Trays feist is kind of almost looks like a Catahoula color. I mean, she's got her little rental color tour and in her litter. She was only puppy

that looked like that. Oh really, what the other ones look like kind of look like Lanier's dog, you know, black yellow, you know, they're just all the different colors. Yeah, you kind of get the feeling that these fists are just a kind of a conglomeration over two hundred years of people breathing for little dogs and tree squirrels. Yeah, I mean I believe the Week's chance, the one that started the Champlain, he was mixed up. He was half

Stephen's cur and half moment spiced. Okay, now can you go into any more detail on the I was gonna ask you that, like there's mountain curves, black mouth curves, which those aren't typically used for scrawn. Not the mountain curves are. But I mean like Stephen spice, like Steven's curve, that's Stephen's curt Yeah, that's another line of curs. Uh now that but it's in uk C it would only be like that. I'm not sure, but it's a totally different breath of dog like a Steven's curve is different

than uh some other kind of curve. Uh. Well, they're all curves, but the Stevens curve is definitely different. You know. They're typically black, a little bit of white, open on track. Uh, I mean most all of them are open on track sports. Yeah, okay, so when I chel and that guy is wide open on a S World track, Okay, A little bit bigger dog, Yeah, I got a nail that's probably heck, that's as big as a hound. Huh So. But you guys like the

little feists you underscore, that's your favorite, now, Okay. I I understand dogs and mules and horses enough to know that in any type of situation where you're using an animal to gain advantage, there's there's gonna be lots of ways to skin the cat. But everybody has like a method that they like for maybe not even a good reason. You know. It's just like I like ex dog because and there's I say, it's not a good reason, it's actually a great reason. It might be my grandpa used

that kind of dog. Yeah, you'll find out a lot, especially in the culture where I grew up, and probably I'm serious, you know, trace from Mississippi. I'm surious very similar down there. You know, Grandma or grandma whoever you know, had one certain type of dog that was proven. It seems to be in my world the way the way you went. You know, there's an emotional connections you're with a dog, just like with a pet. I means like people like a certain type of dog, and so if

you grew up around FCE, you're probably like him. But why do you all like face? Why do you like ice tray? Well, you know if you if you get a good one and the squirrels are down and moving, you'll kill every one to because you know, with five stools, use its nose, it ties, and its ears. So the first paying seriously will dude, when you let her out of turner loose, she will just start looking up because

she figures in squirrels from that tree. Now, the other types of squirrel offs that don't do that, Or is that that's what makes him a squirrel of them? I don't know. I've tried to hind a big old hound one time, and it would it would smell him up in the tree, and they had if they had been there all night, and you know, if they weren't moving, That wasn't another alternative to pick up a squirrel. Yeah, but now yeah, I just like, uh, I just like that fast. Yeah. I didn't want to hunt a lot closer,

you know, or are some some of closer. There's always there's there's no people are gonna lose them, like, oh well that ain't right. You know, my cur dog hunts, you know, saying the value yards in front of me or whatever. But there's always an exception to everything. Why do you like the fast? I mean, squirrel ain't that big. You know, it doesn't take a great big dog to tree one. They're a little easier to keep. I mean,

I've had curs. When I first moved up here, I had curs, and it seemed like most all of my head were just a little harder to keep around the house, bark a lot in the pan. Uh. I don't know if it was the line I was hunting or what, but I've just had really good luck with the fast. Yeah, you're telling me the other day while we're noting how smart that the Jessee dog is. Oh yeah, Like, would you do you told her not to go in the

one room of the house one time? Yeah? She i mean, let her in the house, walking there on the carpet in the bedroom, tell her not to come in there. She'll stopped at the door every time. Now, I mean they just pick up on a quick so they're smart and that that makes it fun. And then now to me, what surprised me when we were hunting the other bay on mules, which I thought was really cool and I think it's a cool part of the video too, is, uh,

you carry these dogs on the mules. So we we've parked the trucks where we had just stopped, and then we were going about I don't know, probably not a half a mile, but maybe maybe half a mile to where we're gonna hunt. And they didn't want these dogs just free ranging and going and treating a squirrel somewhere where we couldn't get to because at barbware of fences. We carried these dogs just right on top of the beetle and then just pitched him off the mule when

it was time to hunt. I thought that was pretty handy. Now, you never tried it, but you're wanting to put the mule or the dog in your game pouch. I think she dried in it one time we looked up and and Jesse, Michael's uh little dog has had her both the speet on the side of the horn. He's like standing up just like he was rigging for bear. You know that these guys are bear dogs. They have these big dog boxes and they have places where the good

time to the top of the dog box. And that dog will was to be riding down the road just bothering its head. But yeah, she look like she was trying to rig a bear on that mule, catching the drafts that mule he was on. When you're back to being in front, well, and so between your mules, Willie was the Willie was the one you didn't trust as much, right, Oh yeah, I think he's got a crazy stray can and he's say shafeing h. Yeah, but he may decide you're going up this hill and he's gonna drag you

through the prods in the way. Yeah, So that's why Michael got the ride. Michael got the riding. Well, I could tell, right and I'm literally Michael with tight Yeah, he's he's kind of got that mules right now. You know, when you're when you're around the equal of animals a little bit, which I still consider myself pretty green. Really when it comes to horses and mules. I can always tell somebody that's been around in their whole life, and and you can tell by very nuanced things that they do.

And I could tell when I saw Michael get on on his mule that he had ridden in this whole lot. I knew he had. I didn't know to this this second, to both of those were trains. I thought. I thought Michael was riding Michael's mule. Now to this verious second, I was not aware that, yeah, are you? You can always tell about about how relaxed somebody is when they get on, how they throw their leg over, how they position their feet in the stirrups, because these are all

things I'm learning. But and this mainly just sound comfortable. But I could tell you knew what you're doing. We'll lose a good mule, you know. He trade and now I want to talk about dogs more, but maybe we'll talk about mules from neut here. You well, let me let me let me tell a little about you, Mr Autrey. So trade. I've scrolled with the trade A couple of years ago. We couldn't hunted a little bit, and uh,

trade just calls me or text me or something. It's like, hey, I bought some mules and we talk and uh I was I was like, I mean, I was really glad you got a mule. I was afraid you were gonna be disappointed once you got just because just like I was when I got mules, I just had this idea that it was like buying a four wheel. I really didn't. It's an exaggeration to make a point, but that's kind of the mentality that I had years ago. It's like, now I'll get a mule and then I'll be able

to ride in the mountains. Man, it's not like mine four ward. There's a whole lot more to it, a whole lot more to it. And I learned from buying a Greenbrooke mule and then break my ow mule that you got to become muleman a hand on and so trade was like me, he didn't have a ton of experience. You wrote him when you were a kid. Is that right? Now?

I'm my aunt had some horses, and I've been on her horses, but he had the first time I had all about the mule when when you said you got wound, and then I don't remember who told me this part? But they got they can see all four feet, so they're gonna be more sure footed. And I'm thinking, well, I'm sure I don't want to fall off for having following me so it hurt. Yeah, so I thought that

might not be a bad idea. Well, when you told me that you went and bought this mule like a mile from where you live, the guy that just happened to hold game, we'll eat. So you live like pretty close to this guy, you said, coming down there and bought the mule and just rode it home and you had trouble a ridge. And when you told me what you did, I was like, this guy, this guy has got some guts. Are doing enough not to know that? Well?

In fact, I was totally impressed that you were able to manage those mules like you did, because I have a lot of after that, after some of the stuff I put out about mules, I have a lot of people message me saying, hey, don't think about getting the mule. Do you think do you think it would work? And I give everybody the same spiel. It's like, yeah, it'll work if you really wanted to, and if you're willing

to get name, that was it. That was a couple of times after I thought P and I had old Willie peemed up out there and I hadn't even a pastor here, and man if it took me a while before he let me catch him. Yeah, I mean I rode into the house and all he was just as good as he could pay, you know, besides that Waterdale, And then he decided he didn't want me to catch him. So that took a little walk to thinking all that

figured out. Now when I pulled up on my wife, does both MutS just come up, you know, because I won't to hear your buddy, I guess I want to tree you or from you showed the move was loss. Well, I was still like, sure who he is? I think we tolerate each other, you know. Well, I was impressed that the regular hamm onim like you did. I really was. I don't know abody impressed. But I hadn't gotten mad enough about it that I had too much money out there on that and it was a pot hunter around

when you WILLI is, yeah, yeah, there's a lot. There's a whole conversation we had about and that's the way you put Michael one that's my book it. Yeah, but if I didn't watch somebody only well, and I was impress that they're matching mules too. That was just the accident. I got smokey because Danny couldn't keep him in the fence. He was always out in the middle of the road. When I come home there and I opened the gate and let him back in, and he had told him

me that that mule was really good. Uh, And I didn't know the difference. It was a little time and uh. He said, well you'll be able to tell the difference and then you can, I guess. Uh. But anyway, Yeah, if in fact mule hadn't kept getting out of Danny's spence, they probably wouldn't have sold him. Well you do good Now for people who don't understand mule culture, your street

crid goes up exponentially when you had matching mules. So just to let you know, I mean when I when I saw two white mules come out of each other, I was like a different He's a big deal. Boys. That's why that's why I did what I did, And now I have matching mules. Yeah, street cred, you drink care. Yeah, I had heard this though. I had learned this from a real mulemate over in Oklahoma. That helped me get matching mudles because when he had a now I have, I have two mules right now. I got rid of

my elivate mule. The first mule I had. Right now, all I've got is Izzy, and I have Issy's full brother named Banjo, who was colored just like her sorrel with white white sox. And when when when this guy had this this cold, he called me, send me a picture, and he's like, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta have this mules. He basically saved it when till it was seven months old. And I might pick it up last week. But hey, let's talk about let's talk about swirls and

squirrel halls. How do you how do you train a squirrel hall? Michael? Well, you know, start up by picking the a little bread one. I mean that goes a long way right there. You know. Hunts, what how you like? Uh? Well, if you could turn them loose till they start treeing, and then penel mop and just keep letting run looser in the place were out of get compars of boots, taking them hunting as much as you can. Where do

they do start treeing. Lasha might at the tree to where they'll stay, which is you know, when I first got up your hunting card dogs, they might go four hundred yards outside of the mountain and take me half an hour to get up there. And I really like the dogs stay with them probably about two hundred yards. I mean, if you're hunting where squirrels are, there's gonna be spore roles within two d yards of him. You know,

we get there pretty quick, at least a month. A lot of people will road hunt them down in the forest on the National Forest Trails. Get him on a hot squirrel and you want to cross out the road in front of them. Uh. Some people throw them in the training pin. Uni, let's start training, Yeah, basically just to have a corn figure in the pin. So these I think that's something that people don't understand that I didn't really understand it until I started training coon dogs.

When I was a kid, we had coon dogs and we kind of just turned the loose and if they made a dog, we were happy, and if they didn't, we you know, got rid of him. But I mean, like there's a lot of all the stuff is already inside of that dog. He's gonna he's gonna he's gonna treat, he's gonna trail, he's got the desire to hunt. I mean, there's all these things that you can't really train that

are just inside of him. But you're trying to put that dog in the best situation to bring out those positive traits and reward it for a positive behavior, which would be treating a swirtl staying on tree, showing desire, game, desire, you know, and then you would you would discourage it from bad behavior, which would be if it random deer, if it did something you didn't like, you you would,

you know. I mean, so it's kind of like you're it's kind of like you're you're trying to put it in the best scenarios possible for it to start treating, because you're not gonna really teach it to treat that. That's the way you describe it. Absolutely. Uh. You know, when they're young, if they were to bump a deer running the little ways, I probably wouldn't. I'd probably just ignore them, you know, I wouldn't shock him or anything

like that or try to correct it. I mean, once I got a little older, I mean, I wouldn't want to kill them chasing game right off the bath, right because you like that desire, yes, sir, yeah, yeah. But so do you take it out with an older dog too? That helps? I guess. I think when they're really young, it probably doesn't hurt. I mean a lot of people just hunt their dogs strictly by themselves. Locally independent dog. You know, trace dog was to go treat, they wouldn't

want their dog to go over there with him. I don't competition hunt, but I mean I don't mind my dog falling in with his. But some people they really like an independent If his dog trees, they wanted to move on down the road and find it their own squirrel. So you get that by hunting and by themselves. Yes, And it kind of just clicks for a dog when they treat it and then shoot it out. They see

that squirrel fall of the ground. Then all of a sudden they're like, I if I stay here in barn, I get the reward getting a little fur in my mouth. I had a little white dog that I hunted or would race doing with Susie. And if Susie tree first, she'd go over there about twenty yards and just pull up on the tree and start barking, and you could tell her right off the bat she didn't have a squirrel. She just sit there and look at you. No, I just want your attention, you know that. The other day

when we kill those two pretty quick. Uh, Jesse was on a tree and Susie was on a tree. Susie left her tree to go over with Jessie, and then she went back to that tree. So I figure we had a squirrel there because she said, I went pretty tight and we're shooting over there. So that's the way it's supposed to. It was a squirrel in there, you know.

I like it when you got two dollars independent and you're going to shoot a squirrel over here, and just as fast as you shoot that, when you got to go to that other dollar real quick and get to that squirrel. So that's a lot upon and when it happens like that, it just didn't happen like that all day time. How did you How did you start Susie now se five or six years old? Man, that's a great question. I had to look at the papers, but I think she's back five and back five or six.

You had her since she was a new I bought that dog I bought already started and I'm not really sure how I started. She was when I got her, But I bought her from a fellow named Kenny like them, and he's wor over now and around old East central Mississippi for being a pretty good guy with a you know, trying squirrel dogs. But the other first time I hunted

with her, she bought first squirrel I killed. Whether she barked at one time, and real code and Wendy and I'm thinking old my and darn if there wasn't a squirrel. It was a little bitty slick tree and it was just on the opposite side we were looking at. And uh, she does pretty good, But I will take her and I would maybe with a a postum or whatever, we could put him cage or even a squirrel and we would turn the squirrel out and you and a field

and there's one tree. You know where the squirrel is going when you give her a head spot and then let that doghood and watch the squirrel the dog across. The dog would chase it out of chase it out through that field up a tree. But as soon as you got really good, the first time she got bit knocked a squirrel out of the tree. Tree wouldn't dead and she got bit and from that point own maybe man, he didn't have to do any training. She was mad. She's mad at him now, she really is. She don't

like him now. Year dog is a year, she about a year and a half. A year and a half. And did you start her yourself? I bought her from Bill Douglas. She had just started tree and and she wasn't staying at all. And uh, and that's when I got her. Okay, she wasn't staying on the true No, she'd bought a few times and then try to go find out. Okay, how did you break her? That? Tired to the tree? Just get there quick, tied to the tree. Yeah, stay there with her. Here's a here's a general question

for both of you. I am not asking for specifics because this would be like asking a cattle farmer how many I mean cows it has. It's just a bad deal. You can't do that. But what is a what what does a scrom do cost? Like a like a started dog? Man, I don't know if we didn't talk about that, listen to this a lot of range? How about it from a good blooded puppet to a finished dog? What what something in that range? We all know everything is. It's whatever,

man as will. I haven't gonna guess that it's about the same as coon dogs. And I'm gonna guess too, it's about the same as mudles. I'm serious, all these animals that you're devoting a lot of time to training. I find a coon in, a kun dog, and a mule are almost on the same gradient in times of in terms of finances, five hundred dollar muddle by like a five hundred dollar Kueon dog. Yeah yeah, uh, I'm gonna go say five hundred dollars to four thousand dollars,

okay for a really copy and finished dog. Yeah, so I give four thousand, especially if I come from a town. Yeah, well, I'll tell you spend. A month ago, I had a guy friend of mind from Kansas called me and I'm looking for you know, I called you clay to be hearing. But it's got a good started squirrel dog. They'd be interested. And I've talked to several people and I got prices everywhere from you know, twelve hundred dollars to five thousand dollars,

And that was just not even trying to serve. It's real hard. Just people I've talked to and that I know, you know in the squirrel on the world. And so it's you can pay just about what you want to pay or what you're gonna forward. But he need depends on the day that fell up watching the dog. That's now that doll coming or just a red letter day and every time and stopped for picking up the squirrel. And yeah, but the near he has some he has some really here dogs. At times he he's like a

doll trigger he is. I can tell them, oh, he locks him things. So what was your what's your story? I want a good squirrel would cost like starry dog to like a finished out. I mean you get a pup that's about ready to start out of good breeding, probably five hundred dollars, you know, one that's not even start of training, and then uh, I mean one that's started twelve hundred. You find one a little cheaper and

Scott's a limit on the finished dog. Especially you get a cur dog that that's combo coon it is world dog. Yeah you yeah, yeah, that's about that's about what I figured. Yeah, that's right in the battle in Land with what you were, But that's the same way with a with a coon dog, it's just about the same way with a dog dog. It's about the same way with a bear dog. I mean, you buy a good pub from a decent breeder, and you're gonna pay two to three hundred dollars for a pub.

I mean that's kind of like standard. And now some of these top end guys that have a real specialty, a lot of name that everybody wants to pub like, they can get about whatever they want for a pub. But most times, even with good bear dog lines, it's almost like gentleman's honor that you sell six weeks old pubs for two to three hundred dollars. You start asking more than that. Your your egos getting the way. Now, women and children don't understand this. When we had we

had literally we've had two litters of plot pups. My wife's family they were not hunters, and when they had pups, they had like registered boxers and registered something else, uh, dogs that served no purpose whatsoever. And they raised pups when she was a kid a kid, and they sold them for money, you know, I mean, they sold like the point of it was, let's have a litter of pups to make money. So when I said, hey, we're gonna have a litter of plot pups, she was like great,

and uh. She was like how much we gonna sell these for? And I'm like, oh man, hey, plots are hard to come by. This line of dogs is really in demand. There'll be guys wanting these dogs from Michigan and from everywhere. And she's like, good, we can sell these things for seven hundred dollars apiece. And I was like, no, no, I'll be selling them for I can't remember what I asked. Most of them a boy, which she didn't understand. So I was like, this is bear Hunter's code of conduct.

You give a peace offering of puffs people that you want to cultivate relationship with. You know, that has gone as far as like social media too. You can find I mean you Google or Facebook or whatever you want to do. You can find whole pages and communities. There's nothing but strictly squirrel dogs. And you know, by selling trade or however however they listed there, and you go through and that the averages right along what you're talking about.

You know, it's so it's i'd say, it's pretty common knowledge. And the people on. There will be from you know, not just Arkansas, It'll be all over the United States, so you know, in Florida to Michigan or you know, Ohio. The dogs are all you know, very similarly priced or whatever. So Michael, do you you I mean, like, of all the outdoor activities that you do, squirrel hunting with vices at the top of the list or number two or number three? What what is it like? I can describe

why I like the things that I like. Like, why do you like squirrel hunt with dogs so much? Well, I mean you're not You're not confined to sitting in a stand. You get to move around, get to visit with the folks that you're going with. I mean, you can hunt in Arkansas. We're pretty blessed as far as hunting season and public land. You can hunt from May till in the February. Sometime in May to land in February.

I don't really hunt during the summer, but I mean, yeah, and uh, well, we've got two million acres of public land to hunt. I mean, it's just plenty of opportunity. There's typically this year there's not a lot of squirrels, but there's typically squirrels around for you to shoot at. I mean, I just really enjoyed that. My son loves it. We always get to visit when we're out there. Yeah, I forgot how much fun it was two see a squirrel timbering across the trees while you're trying to shoot it.

It's a whole different thing when you got a gun in your hand and you're trying to shoot. I mean, you see squirrels all this every day, you know, cotting up a tree and jumping around. I mean just I got watched him out of my office window every day, and my heart doesn't start to beat fast. But when you're underneath a tree with a dog tree and and that squirrel breaks from cover and starts just screaming down a limb, I mean, it's like, yeah, this is pretty fun.

Did you grew up she grew up doing it with dogs, Michael, No, sir, I got my first squirrel dog. I think when I moved over Right before I moved over here, I was living in Jonesboro and a friend of mine, his dad, gave me a pup. Uh, I just had bagles living in Jonesborold how many places rabbit hunt over here? So I switched squirrel dogs. You know, to me, it's a great It's the biggest thing about it that is so

intriguing is the opportunity for access. Just like you know, if you deer hunt, it's so hard to take somebody deer hunting that's never hunted before. It's it's you have to deal with, you know, a hundred pounds of meat. You gotta not a hundred pounds if you kill a deer, but you gotta you gotta deal with a bunch of meat. You gotta sit, you gotta be proficient with a some type of pretty high powered weapon. You gotta you know,

there's all these barriers. But man, all somebody's gotta do to go squirrel hunt with you is by Arkansas hunting license and borrow a twenty two of the four or ten, and all of a sudden, they're hunting and they're doing something that's fun and exciting. You don't have to be you don't have to be quiet, That's what that's that's the main thing. And and encouraging for kids. Kids out there. Yeah, don't you're not constantly be still, you know any of that.

You know, there's a lot of stuff for them to do. Yeah, I traded. You grew up squore hunting with dogs. Now with dogs? Uh? Probably ten twelve years ago my timetrist, a fellow named Dan Windham in Pearl, Mississippi, had hunted with us a my uncle Ed, and after Ed died, I've met old Dan Windham and we got to best in and man, I had more fun going with him squirrel hunting than I did deer hunting. So then he says, well, you need to get you a dog too. Ah. He

why he poked me up with Kenny like thing. But no, I didn't grow up squirrel hunting with dogs. But I do enjoy I enjoy watching the dog trying to figure out where that squirrel is. And you know what's really fun. The best part about it if and it doesn't happen too terribly often, but when that squirrel starts timbering like you were talking about, and that dog is following it, that's when it's fun. That's some high level squirrel dog action right there. Oh man, that's that's that's that's big

time right there. Yeah. Um, But the dog, you know, I guess the thing about that fast I really like that dog, you know, does develop a bond with you and it's really trying to please you. You know, everything that dog does once it hits the ground, it's trying to please you. So now they're like a lot of fun. It's it really is an amazing connection between uh, a hunter's animal. I mean it's it's you know, you see inside of the non hunting society how crazy people are

with their pets. I mean, to the point of ludicracy, you know, thinking these animals are humans. I mean giving them the same dog understands what he's saying, and I do too. You know, we may be worse than all in pot no, no, but but listen, and that's these are pests that don't do anything. So when you have that kind of connection with an animal that is serving a purpose like tree a squirrel to put dinner on your table, I think that's a higher level. So I

think it's pretty cool. Oh, it's it's a lot of fun. Hey, let me tell you all before we before we close down, let me tell y'all and and and we'll go through and I'll hit any closing comments you guys have. We would coon hunt an other night when it's snow. The day after the nineteenth of January, the day after that, we squirrel hunted. It's snow the next day, and I had never coon hunting in the snow, so I want

to see how the dogs would do. The wind was blowing probably ten the fifteen miles per hour, and it was twenty five degrees. I mean, it was a for northwest Arkansas. It was not the night you want to

go coon hunt. But me and the two of my buddies went and we uh turning the dogs out front and jed just I mean, I just took them right where I thought they'd strike, and sure enough they struck him the creek and uh and went way up this creek, and the track started out real hot and just kind of fizzled, fizzled, fizzled, and then I saw him start

circling the tree on the garment. I could see they made a big loop, and then they came right back down the creek, and I felt like they went the wrong way on the track and got to where the coon had come out of the tree. Sure enough, that's what happened. So they start trailing it back down the creek towards me, and the coon made a spin off through this real thick, nasty stuff. I guess he was I don't know what he was hunting for, but he

was hunting for something. And the dogs got hung up in there, and A pretty much felt like they were treated, except they were in about a twenty yards square area and I can just see they just weren't moving. So we went in there to see what was happening. Got there and there's coon tracks in the snow all around there, and the dogs are just going crazy, you know, but

they can't find it. They can't find it directly. Fern, my my good coon dog, kind of peels off and the track heats up, and I'm like, okay, well maybe they got straightened out. And she goes down there a hundred yards and trees is just treat Jedi, who I don't have as much faith in, not because he's not a good coon dog, but he just is always on Ferns Kurt, you know, coattails, and so you know how it is when you have a good dog, you never really know the potential of the other dog. But I

hunt them together all the time. Ferns over their tread. Jed pulls in and doesn't go to her, and he starts barking like crazy down in this creek, bank in a hole and he's he doesn't treat he doesn't get after armor deals or something. But anyway, who do I go to first? I go to Fern. I go to Fern and it's a dent tree that I really don't think has anything in it. And uh, and we've shine the tree and there's no coon directly. Jed is over here just I mean about to lose his mind, about

eighty yards away. But he's down in a little creek bank and so you can't you can't really I don't know what's going on, but I'm like, well, let's go see what Jed's got. I come around this corner and look up this creek and Jed has his head in a hole in a root ball and he's just his eyes are bulging out of his head. And I go over there and there's a coon about that far from his face. I got six inches for his face, bawled up in a hole, and Jed is chewing the roots

and and he just can't get that coon. That's that's a fun coon. Nun get out a hole. And uh, we got the kun, Yeah, yeah, we got the We got the coun out of the whole, got the kun. Yeah. Yeah. It was funny though, because it was classic of trusting this dog but not trusting the other one. You know. Oh, that's that's fine. Well hey, um, so the video. We made a really cool video of this squirrel hunt with mules and it's gonna come out sometime next week on

the Bear Hunting Magazine YouTube channel. So if somebody's listening for the first time you hear is talking about a YouTube channel almost every time Bear Hunting Magazine YouTube channel, you might ask yourself, why are these guys talking about squirrel hunting if they're Bear Hunting Magazine. Well, that's just what we do. We squirrel hunting, deer hunting, everything else. Hunt and the bears are asleep right now, are they not?

They are asleep, So we're hunting squirrels. But we got this neat video and it's coming out on Bearhunting Magazine YouTube channel sometime next week, probably to Tuesday is what I'm thinking. Maybe Wednesday, maybe Monday, don't no, no for sure, but it'll be out next week. So go check that out and you'll get to meet Mr Trey Autrey and Michael Lanear see some of Brent's videography. You get to

meet Izzie Smokey and Willie Susie jesse Man. The Castic characters is big and and and here was the cool thing that we did is that we took these squirrels too. We killed two squirrels in the morning, took the squirrels and we fried them in some barrel oil that I'd rendered down. And it was fantastic, was it not? And you don't eat you don't eat squirrels fried Barry grease. We had them. We at those squirrels. We had those squirrels.

We did a good stuff. Whoa closing comments, Michael, did we not cover anything inside of squirrel hunting that might be relevant? I mean, I know it's a giant topic or breeding dogs and how dogs hunt, and we we didn't. This really didn't cover it totally. But I don't know. I mean, I think we're pretty good. We're covering a lot of it. Yeah, I mean it was a lot of fun. Yeah. It really was advantageous to have the mules.

I mean it was advantageous because we if I didn't have my garment turned on, and see how far we walked, But I bet we walked five to seven miles. I think we did that. Maybe more because we will went in on that other road. We walked a long way as if you'd have been on foot, you had been in pretty good sho oh man, we wouldn't have made it happy day. It's too many hills. That's when hills. Too many hills. When I got the mules far and that's like playing golf without a car, what would you

want to do it? Well? And when the scrupt Michael said it before, but when the squirrels are thin, the mules are really havn't take you because you're able to cover a lot of ground. Like if we had gone into that little block of timber where we didn't treat the squirrels and we had stayed in there like all day tree and squirrels and killed two limits of squirrels out of there. You know, maybe having a mule wouldn't

have helped it that much, but probably not. We were, but we were at one point we went on probably a mile and a half end and a mile and a half back out on that other road over there, and we were hunting. We were hunting, and we wouldn't shooting them Buchem, Yeah, yeah, what about you, mister auctory closing comments, Man, We just had a good time the other day, just like we do every time we get to go outside, and you know, uh maydeing Brant and

having you there, Mane. It was just a lot of fun and UH appreciate you uh coming out there and hunting with us at any time. I told my wife after that day, I said, I mean, I travel and hunt and do a lot of stuff, and there's some days that are just fun, like you just get home and you just just everything about it, from the people you were with, how the hunt went, to the weather too, and I had just it more fun than I thought I would. I had a blast. I really did. We did.

We did, And for me, it was a combination of you know, the more I get into these mules, the more I'm looking for ways to use them and looking for ways to use them inside of hume and and that makes it really enjoyable to combine hunting and these mules. So I mean, for me, it was that was a big part of it, Like being able to shoot off Izzie again in the video people people will see me

shoot off Izzie. It wasn't the first time I shot off I've read shot of twenty two off over but it was the first time I shot shotgun, which was loud, and to me that was like a massive training win to uh to shoot off her, man, that was great watching that. That's motivating me to get one of mine where I can do. You don't even have to walk at all. If you can train your mule to shoot off, I'm not gonna walk. You won't even get off. We'll bring a lab to pick up the squirrels. Fars a

sousy'll retrieved squirrels. She runs around when them more than you were treating. It's gonna look like she's a lab. But I do have a buddy named Old Todd Turner that went hunting with Milbury and Carrolton a couple of times. And uh, myn he had this big, old, big, old black lab and we would shoose squirrels and that dog would bring him to us. Oh it was it was fun. Yep retreating does Mr Brant closing coins? Man? Uh, it

was so fun. Unlike these guys. You know, I grew up hunting, and you've I talked about a hundred times. I grew up squirrel hunting off of horses, and that I mean from when I came my first hunts were off a horse behind you know, a dog, squirrel and with my dad and our family friends, you know, my brothers and everything. So that was so meding memories that day.

It's just awesome, awesome time. And though there's one constant that I found true with with growing up, the memories I had a growing up with my um, with my dad, my uncle's and our family, uncles, you know, everybody you want to call it um. All these guys, the main thing they're doing is having a good time and the respectful one another and respectful of the resource. And they just they see, you know, what's really going on out there.

It's not how many squirrels we can put in a saddle bag, it's how much fun we can have before it gets dark. And it was. It was a good time, and we we gotta do this again. Yeah, we gotta do it again. A lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. I think that's the refreshing part of hunting with dogs for me, is that coming from such a strong, big game, kind of so low mentality for deer hunting and bear hunting like I do, it's just kind of a breath of fresh air to just go

out and have fun. And not to say we all know it's not the big game hunting and fun, that's not it. But it's just different. It's just different, and it was. There was a lot of fun the other day. It was our pleasure to hunt with you guys. Tray, I mean, really, y'all let us come along and so for that week, thank you. Oh man, anytime, let's let's do it again. Yeah. Well, hey, thanks for listening to the Squirrel Hunting Magazine podcast, I mean Bear Hunting Magazine

podcasts um a. Check out our print magazine. Bear Hunting Magazine is the only print bear hunting magazine in the world. We are the big squirrel in the small tree. You know, we we are we are we are the bear Hunting Magazine and uh yeah, you can support our cause, which

our cause is broader than just bear hunting. Our causes to continue the hunting lifestyle and freedoms that we have in this country, to see those persist through generations as we continue to steward wildlife resources as well, and then the hunters ought to be able to to utilize those resources wisely and build traditions and culture and just have a great time and the outdoors. That's what we do so hey, keep the wild places wild because that's where the squirrels live.