Motivation with Aron Snyder

I'll also be your host into the world of hunting the icon of North American wilderness. There, we'll talk about tactics, gear, conservation, but will also bring you into some of the wildest country on the planet, chasing the better. Like what are you? What are you trying to do? Aaron? What would what would the end goal of Aaron Snyder? In twenty years everything goes away that you would hope it would? What

what would that be? You know? Somebody asked me this recently and I don't think they got the answer out of me. I wanted, honestly. Might We stopped in Denver at the Kafaru International Headquarters to talk with Aaron Snyder, Colby and I were on our way back from Montana and had an awesome conversation where we've talked about some of Aaron's motivations, some of his background and hunting, why

he does what he does, his definitions of manhood. We talked about his motivations for being as driven as he is and as disciplined as he is. We talked about traditional archery and some of the methods that he's using, but also kind of contrasted it with other methods that worked too. We had a fun conversation that's probably different than some of the other podcasts you've heard with Aaron Snyder. Be sure to check out the Bear Hunting Magazine Patreon

page where we are. We're gathering patrons for the Bear Hunting Magazine YouTube channel and this podcast. Check out Bear Hunting Magazine, the world's only print bear hunting magazine. And good luck if you're still spring bear hunting. It's like prime time right now, first weeks of June, and without further ado, Aaron Snyder Toofaro, here we go. We're rolling,

all right. Welcome to the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. This is one of the podcasts on our Montana tour Colby Moorehead and I are coming back from Montana on a do it yourself bear hunt. We hauled our mules up to Montana and we were coming back through Denver. So Colorado is in between Montana and Northwest Arkansas. And uh, we are here at Kfaru and Wheat Ridge, Colorado. Is that right, Aaron? That's correct? Wheat Rich Colorado, the Kafaro

World headquarters. Because it's pretty stinking impressive to really is. But I've got we're here with Aaron Snyder, and uh, for people who wouldn't Aaron, you're a hard guy to describe. But for for people who wouldn't know Aaron Snyder, which some of you may not, but I figured a lot of you do. Aaron, first of all, he works for Kafaru and Kafaru is a is a they make backpacks that make shelters there. I'm gonna let you describe what is.

But Aaron hosts a podcast. Aaron does outdoor writing. Aaron is a prolific archer, got into traditional archery the last several years. He's a heck of a hunter. He's a heck of a shot. Kind of you got got started on rock slide the forum a long time ago. I us A lot of people knew you through that, Aaron, through gear related stuff. I started that website, you started rock Slide, and now you are the infamous Aaron Snyder

probably a good way to describe it. Yeah, but hey, you're also a big bear hunter and an honest podcast. We don't always just talk about bear hunting. But h but Aaron Man, how would you introduce yourself? Um? Well, I'm the I'm the now president and CEO of Kafaro International. Um I yeah, I got started just doing gear review, started a website, rock Slide. Uh, got on a different podcast, Gritty Bowman kind of was a co host there. And

I'm a bit introverted. I'm not too good at being in public with a large group of people, which to my probably downfall. But I get to spend, as you know, a hundred and fifty two hundred plus nights a year in the wilderness. I end up lucky enough to go on hunts a year. Um, and so you know, for for me, I try to just help people as much as I can, both with the gear obviously designing gear not just for KAfari but multiple other companies as well. And uh, you know, my goal really wasn't to get

into the industry like a lot of people's. My goal was to get into the woods and stay there as much as I could, and in the industry ended up being a byproduct of it. Um. So yeah, that's probably not the best description in the world. But what were your original introductions to hunting there and you did you grow up in a hunting family. Oh? My my home No, not really no, um a little bit. My hometown is um a couple of hundred people in the middle of

the Pacific Crest Trail. It's an organ it runs kind of right by my hometown. It's a logging community. And my dad hunted a little and you know, got me into fishing and the outdoors. But I'm one of those guys from from birth with it was just eating up alive with hunting, survival fishing. I picked mushrooms as a kid Ford school clothes, um, you know, instead same thing to for my first bow, um, and it was one

of those things that um I got. I don't know what that is beating, but anyway, it was one of those things I literally could not get in the woods enough and that never never left even to this day. UM, I mean, you see how much I get to to hunt and I can't. You can get sick of hunting. I will say that you can't get tired of it where you need a break. But UM, you know, if I had a choice, whether it be photography, which is something else I'm really into, or hunting, as long as

I'm in the outdoors, I'm I'm in my element. Yeah, what was So? What was the first animal you took with the I mean in the Oregon what were you hunting? It's probably illegal, be honest with you, UM, not a lot of law in a statutes, you know, I'm trying to remember. I'm I'm quite certain that probably, you know, being honest, it probably wasn't the most legal method of take at that time. But there's not a lot of people or anything like that where I'm from. But I

I think it was a black tail deer. Actually, no, it was legal. The first one I shot was a black tail fokard horn. I was probably eleven or twelve years old. Um, I had just taken my Hunter's Safety card or got my hunter safety card, so I was probably twelve, and I didn't hunt as much when I was uh younger. I was on a trail crew team, and I got to do a lot of backpacking through the wilderness. UM learned a lot about what ended up

being backpack hunting. UM. I fished a ton when I was younger, and I hunted a bunch of me and A hunted during seasons. But it wasn't very good at it. I didn't have a great mentor. UM. You know that came you know later, where I you know, got better and better better the more more I hunted. And I definitely more self taught, you know, which is probably why I tried to take so many people under my wing. It's a rough road when you're self taught. So you

got a lot of bumps. Tell us about somebody who doesn't like I wouldn't have Probably five years ago, I didn't know. I didn't know about Kafara. But it's pretty incredible company. I mean, you just gave us a tour, a short tour the headquarters here, and everything is American made. Everything is made right here in Colorado. Every component of the packs, the shelters, the clothing, all the stuff that

you're making. I'd say that's super unique. And I know that everything I think I've heard, maybe you said before. But I mean there's no there's no corners cut really on anything. You're trying to use the best possible materials, the lightest white materials, and just not always the lightest weight. Definitely the best bang for the buck. It may be a little heavier sometimes but more durable, but the most functional. Sometimes sometimes it is the lightest weight. Um yeah it

it uh uh. Cafar Oh actually was started by Patrick Smith, who who started Mountain Smith, which is back in the day was an extremely large mountaineering or backpacking company. Um. He sold that and then started Kafaro Internet. Sal uh he isn't put it's a rhino and Swahili so rhino tough gear when that comes from and Patrick, who's basically like a father to me. Now, um you know the short version. I came in here to test the pack and write a review about it, and I was like

a bad penny. I guess I never went away. He had daughters. Um, you know all daughters and their husbands aren't early into hunting or the outdoors, and um it was a good fit. I think he uh saw in me a lot of him and his youth of um from survival or eating marmots or you know, it's one of those. I just did a podcast with someone else and they like one of the things. Patrick's like, you know, you ever had a mormaot And I was like, well, yeah,

of course I've had a mormot. Well, most people this day and age haven't eaten marmot or squirrel or e. Yeah. We talked about that on the podcast. You gotta skin him from the leg up. By the way of they taste kind of panty in Alaska, that's all I know. Yeah, they do, they do everywhere. Um, they're not great either. They're a little tough sometimes, but I've eaten just about everything. But those were things he was maybe quizzing me before

I worked. Here. We're backpack and we're back back into a lake, you know, keep minding seventy six now, um, so sixty nine and we'd hike in and I think, as uh, he's a he should have been a teacher or a you know, professor. He's very intelligent. His I feel dumb when I'm around him. His vocabularies off. He's been on the podcast some Yeah, I hadn't listened to

it yet, but I want to. I want to hear him. Yeah, yeah, he's I was trying to get him liquored up, because he's much funnier when he's whisked at a little whiskey in him. But uh, he would uh you know, I think he wanted to be able to teach me more, but I had had had good Um he's taught me more about being a man than he taught I didn't. There was a whole lot because that that phrase could mean a lot of things. Well, you hear people a lot of people talk about let's say, you know, like

extreme ownership. Well that's not just some stuff you put on a T shirt. You know that that means owning up to you know, whether it's your fault or not. And as you take over a large company one way or another, it's your fault. Whether it's your fault or not, in the end, it's your fault, right. So and and obviously I had some leadership um uh skills behind me before. But he also taught me to you know, calm down.

Um a pretty high strung guy, and uh he taught you know, he also, you don't need to take over the world. You need to be happy. And you know he even worries about me now stressing out and and he is the kind of guy that if I was super stressful, no matter what was going on, he'd walk in and be like, you need to go out in the woods. And he's like, you know, take four or

five days and uh, you know, get away. And also that when you when you test things, um, you know, not answering this question very well, but he would not come out with some products for ten years of testing. And so he you know, never rush anything like take as long as it needs to be to be tested, which is why we don't have a lot of failure years, um, you know. And so I just uh, you know, as far as taking care of family, uh, everything like that and just being a better person. Um, you know, he's

been very good at me about that. As far as the outdoors, there wasn't a whole lot for me to learn. I'm not not saying that on a bragging aspect. It's just I've been able to do so much what I did need to learn or what he wanted to teach me. I'm not a gun guy, and so he's a reloading fool. I might as well be talking about golf. It's just not my thing. And I he actually made fun of me a bit for being a bow hunter. He's like,

why do you do that? Not youren't gonna kill anything, and he didn't say it like that, but basically, and I'm like, no, I'm pretty good with this thing, you know. And I think the first year I worked here, I think I put a flipped over seventeen or twenty animals and he never brought it up again. Um So now he's very intrigued following along because I'll go on hunts like that our dad hunted. He's out dad hunted and

was like, man, that's almost in possible. And got him with a stick, him with a stick on first day. Basically run a mile to get him, but I got him either way. Hey, let me let me go back to Let me go back to uh the question that you said, because I liked what you said about you learned how to be a man. What would you say, Aaron is like inside of that process? How are you forty two or something? Working on what? What have been

your biggest struggles inside of life? Not not even talking about bow hunting, but I mean you, I appreciate your and I think this is why people like you and respect you even if they don't like you is is your your your It's clear that your passion and extreme dedication to the things you commit yourself to are legit and honestly, most people don't have the internal technology or architecture inside of them to really commit themselves to something.

Um what so what? What would have been struggles inside of your life that you have overcome that? And that's a broad, sweeping question and a personal question. That's a good question. I tell you what I haven't overcome is over commitment. Um. You know, and you hear all kinds of stories about me that I'm like a royal a hole to some people, and then you talk to guys that are close to me and they're like, He's the most giving dude I've ever met in my life. I

mean to a point. Jake Jake Downs is a guy that recently and I come friends and he's like worried. I've been so nice to him. And one of the things when you're that nice, sometimes you over commit. I'll overcommit on hunts. We just talked about that, where, Um, you know, I I get I want to help so many people and then I end up letting some of them down. That's a problem I price struggle with was my whole life because you just can't, you know, with

a busy schedule. I do my best. But one of the things I've said I've i've overcome the most is my I have a temper. I have a when I say temper, not fly off the handle all the time, passive aggressive temper. I'll let things slide and slide and slide, and the next thing you know, I'm choke slimming a dude.

Um true story, Like that's happened many times to where and Patrick's helped out with that where I really have been able to take a big step back, look at the giant, broader picture, um assess and then get everyone together, whether it be just me and another guy or me and twenty other people, and kind of assess and look at it from all sides of the fence, if that makes any sense. Like there's always if you and I have an issue and you talk to a guy, you're

gonna be right. And I'm looking at kolbe Jack here and if I'm gonna be right if they talk to me. I've gotten really good at taking a step back and say, hey, I'm I'm owning up to this part of it. But this parts yours man, and and and that's been something I've really tried to work on as a leader in a person, just being direct with people. Yeah, and it's it's hard for people. It's very hard for people to be I like people to be very direct me. Um

that people do not deal well with that. Let me ask you something about I think part of part of manhood is also humility. And what's interesting and I think what people perceive about you is that you're because I mean, some people could say, um, well, there's a there's a part of just knowing who you are and confidence in your identity. Just as I just am what I am and I'm not gonna undersell it and I'm not gonna

oversell it. I just am who I am. And I think you're good at uh, you're good at just saying hey, I'm a good traditional archery shot. I've committed the last three years of my life to becoming that. And if some people said it, they would say that guy is arrogant, that guy is blowing smoke. You know, people still say that about me all the time. I think they do. But and they may, they may, and maybe they have

the right to say that. But I think that what you have that I have seen dealing with you on a personal level is I think you're I think humility is inside there, which is good. Let me just put it that way, because I talked to a few people about this, because I'm like, I don't consider myself arrogant.

I consider myself very confident. But from what I know of arrogant people, they're not able to say I suck at this, or this was my fault, or where I'm the first guy to say I suck at guns, or man, I'm horrible a paperwork, or hey, Clay, I'm an idiot. I forgot to send you this article. You know what if And I think that's what I'm saying is that you're you take responsibility, You're you're just confident in who

you are. And I think that's what I think, that's what all of us really are are are trying to do, is just walking our identity. One thing that we talked a lot about inside of our church and stuff is identity. Knowing who you are. Identity is power. Yeah, really I didn't know, and who you are in in and not trying to be something you're not and not trying to you know, just you are who you are and and utilizing all the things that that you have for for

the minute what you're doing. No, I agree, And I'm as far as on the spiritual side, I'm a bit of an odd duck because I am not the most spiritual person in the world. But I watched Joe Alstein the blinker um and he he didn't think that this was gonna happen, was going to come up. I'm a unique dude when and I you know, I say, as I say that, I'm sure I'll get arrogant comments about that. But like I've read the book The Five Love Languages like three times to make sure I'm a good husband.

The first time I read it was because I got a divorce, um, and it actually helped me pick up chicks. The second time I read it because I didn't want to lose one. And the third time I read it motivation there I don't know, you know, and it was I mean being honest. And the third time I read it is to make sure I keep the one I got um. And there are times and and things that

I will like with Joelstein. Am I watching it for maybe the same reasons you two are, Maybe maybe not, But I'm definitely watching it to become a better person. And when he had talked about that, and and Amy is a bit of enamored my wife from time to time because I'll I'll say, yeah, man, I can shoot, you know what I can shoot? And then you talk about Turkey combat. Man, I suck with a diaphragm. I just can't. I can't do it, man, that's all you.

I don't find that. I like people that have those characteristics to where one of the reasons I Frank and Jake down some Cody, three guys that are I'm super close with is they'll do the same thing. They'll they're gonna tell me they're strong points, and I want to hear them, and they're gonna be honest with their week

because those are just important as a strong ones. Like if you think I'm all all not me, someone is all everything in the world, and then you find out pretty soon they they are deficient in in half of them and excellent in the other half. That's bad. You need to know the deficiencies. And so I try to just be as upfront as I can of what I'm good at or not good at. That's a good that's a good segue to maybe, uh, a couple of other things.

Let me go ahead and say just for because we I've already got off track here, but I don't really have a track. I wanted to talk to you about kafaro. I wanted to talk to you about some about your traditional archery. There's We've got quite a few listeners that I think listen to this podcast because we don't focus on traditional archery, but you know, we end up talking about it because I've hunt quite a bit with trad equipment um. And then thirdly I want to eventually get

two bears. Um. But but it's good to hear a little bit about the you know, kind of your backstory and uh and really some of your maybe motivations and maybe maybe that's a good question. We'll take this question and then we'll go to trad archery. Okay, all right? What what are your what are your goals inside of hunting? Mean? Like if you get to hunt as much as you do And that's even a broader statement from even a professional, because I know you're in the outdoor industry, Um, like

what are you what are you trying to do? Aaron? What would what would the end goal of Aaron Snyder in twenty years if everything goes away that you would hope it would. What what would that be? You know? Somebody asked me this recently, and I don't think they got the answer out of me. I wanted, honestly, my my number one goal is to be able to go hunt all the time and be off social media. I do not like social media at all, but I'm forced. I mean, I like, as I say that, I love

afflicted a bit on that well. I love helping people, and I like telling people the story because it motivates him. I don't know how many emails I've got about saving guys lives diets, Um, guys are talking about committing suicide. Before you came in, I spent twenty minutes talking on the phone with a dude that was ready to quit his job because he was freezing running a jackhammer. And

his buddy said, you gotta listen to parroadcast. This dude was a construction worker, and he said, saved his job. He listens to no any it's from Montana. I don't know who he was, um, but those things keep you going. But I also I'm not a limelight person, and sometimes I'll get flak about that, and I'm like like thinking, if you knew me, like lander will tell you, like he laughs, because people come into camp and I'm like shining and going in the corner. I'm just not good

at that. I look down a lot for whatever reason and public and I have trouble looking in people's eyes. It's just not my thing. Remy Warren seems to be a lot like that too from what I've seen. But Mike, really my goal is just ton as much as I possibly can, spend as much time in the field as

I possibly can. I've got no goals of the the super Slam or certain you know, like whatever like they're I'll have a goal like we're talking about, I'm really wanting to shoot, um a really big mountain goat, try to shoot the largest with a stickbow. But that's not because I'm an enter in the record book. That's just because I'm a goal oriented guy. Really not, you know, That's just what I'm going in with. But it's the

way my brain works. Like when people said I couldn't kill an now dad with a stickbow, I really was like, yeah, you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna figure it out. You know and if I don't get it done, yeah, I'm I And it's so just from where does that come from? Aaron? Like? Because it it? It's it. Do you have something to prove? You know? Because Lander has so Lander was a shrink, right, did you know it? All? Right? So?

Landers had me on the couch multiple times. I've got some dad issues in this talking about we're talking about Jeff Lander with Primitive Outfit and British Columbia, my dad who you skipped out on me because I'm gonna be there next week and Aaron was supposed to be there. You're supposed to have this podcast in British Columbia over the hot of a dead bear with the smell of bloody hands. But it was the one outside. We do have a bloody we do have a bear hide in

the mule trailer. Aeron. We're clo man, We're totally get out track. We're training mules as we speak. Did you know that I've got a bear hide trailer with with my young mule who wouldn't let me put the bear hide on her, and so she's been riding with the bear hide in the trailer for the last five or six hours. It's been below forty degrees, so anyway motivation, no, no, no proven something that got something to prove a man, I would say, um m m. And hopefully my mom

doesn't listen to this. I do not have a great relationship with my dad at all, um, and he not a great dad and it wasn't really you never got a good job from him ever. And if I was to guess, that's between him and then my coach football, coach Perkins in a good way, My coach Perkins. Uh that um, you know one basically left me to like, is anything ever good enough? In the reality was he just never paid enough attention. But and then Perkins showing me you can anything is attainable as a human if

you work at it hard enough. Because really influential. Oh yeah, I'd kill building full of people to keep him safe. He's the guy for me and uh and I do a bad job of keeping up with him, but he's he's been on the podcast before. But really a turning point in my life because as a pecker head, as a kid, I fought a lot um to where he you know, he he made you want to be a better person. And when you succeeded or you failed, he was there to say, suck it up, man, butch up,

You're gonna have to try harder. And when you succeeded, he was there to say, hey, man, that's what happens when you know you put the work in, and that work ethic is what carried through. Now as I say that I have trouble filing my taxes, I can't remember to take the garbage out. But if you want a race to the top of a mountain, or you tell me something can't be done, I'm gonna find a way

or I'm gonna try. Um. And I think, uh, that kind of discipline, you know, and and and that ability to not do very good at failing came from those one my dad who's and then sorry you might want to write down and then uh perfect, Um, you know, in a lot of other people along the way. But I think that's what you know at that young of an age. I'm amazed how much that in a good and bad way? So where where does that Where does that stop? Aaron? I don't know if it ever will,

probably till the day I die. I mean it hasn't yet. Well you know what I think, I think, insight, it's probably the most powerful tool that we have as humans to be able to perceive the things because everything that's happened to us does have influence on us. I mean really, like I mean I think about I think about my hunting because I mean that's a big focal point inside

my life. I mean, aside from obviously my family and my wife, my children are absolute number one priority, but I mean from a outside of that, I mean, hunting is a focal point. And I my dad was he was a great dad, and he he was a bow hunt or he was bo hunting before bo hunting was cool. But I received a ton of validation. The most validation that I received as a kid was when I killed something brought it home and Dad was like, good job.

I mean, And so sometimes I look at that Aaron now and say, am I still you know you gotta you gotta monitor your motivations, Like am I Am I still chasing validation inside of this? And is that the correct thing for my life? And you know, these are things I think about all the time because the decisions you make inside of your life and motivations for what

you do are significant, you know. But now I'm glad the podcast is going down this road because sometimes we're not very serious on our podcast all the time, and there's a lot of quite honestly, your listeners may not want to listen to it. It's explicit and and there's not a lot of serious talk on there. And and

I'm not very good. I'm not uh, Donnie Vincent or Brian call where I'm gonna write a poem, right, I'm not gonna do it, right it when it comes to motivation, um, like I think people uh, without coming off to two ar again, I mean in the at the bottom line, you've got you, right, and that's all you've got. And that's one thing I like about bow hunting is I can't rely blame anyone else, right, it's all on you.

And when I say on you, meaning you can buy the best gear in the world, right, mine is paying for outfitters. You can buy gimme hunts, but let's just publicly and hunts. Um. You know, it's all what you put into it, and it's common sense and field craft and in the whole nine yards and at the end of the day, right, I mean, you've got you and

you're the only one to blame. And I think that's one of the reasons I like, um, solo backpack hunts, not necessarily solo, but backpack hunting is it's it's it's all on you. Um. I prefer that so. But I think though, if I was going to give people, you know, advice, is um, you know you get uh, you know, getting into the industry stuff? What am I get? You know?

How do I get into the industry? And and and all these different questions and you know, really, if you just focus on what you're doing, being the most successful hunter, if that's what you want to do, the most successful hunter, the most successful shot, the best shot you can, industry is probably gonna come to you. Um. Well, when you need an article, you go to guys that shoot bears. Right, You're not going to guys that go on bear hunts. Generally,

you're going on the guys who going bear hunts. In success people want to hear a success story. Well, if you focus on bear hunting, you shoot bears, Clay, maybe getting a hold of you, right, and rather than focusing on selfies and in the gym, right, nothing nothing wrong with going to the gym. I go every day, but focus on what you're wanting to do, and if that's be a greater, better hunter. Probably me forget some part of what what you said originally was that your goal

is just to be a hunter man. I'm just like you in terms of getting into the outdoor industry. I never had a goal to be in the outdoor industry. I never had a goal to make a living in the outdoor industry. But my passion for it it found me, you know. I mean, I built my life back when I had no intentions of ever being at full time in the outdoor industry. I built my life around a prioritization of being in the woods when the white oak leaves turn maroon around October. That's what I That's what

I built. Aside it from other motivations inside a family, I've had my own business because of that, and then things began to happen. But to this day, Colby and I were talking today Guys a lot of guys that do video. I hear them talking. It's it's like their passion is video and they love to hunt, so they do hunting videos. And and to me it's you know, and I think to you as well, and I think to a lot of people it's reversed to that. My

passion is hunting. And then from that stems, well, we are gonna make media, We're gonna do video, we're gonna do photography, and so. But it's fueled from this place of man, we're hunters, and and I think that's a good that's a good core motivation. Not I want to be a famous hunter or not that I want to be well known, but it's just, man, that's I want to hunt. I wanna be a good hunter. I constantly respected growing up, just guys that were the real deal,

legit guys that weren't looking for validation. I mean, they weren't looking for fame. They weren't looking to take their buck down and show it off at the parking lot. Even though I like to do that. That's good, but but the guys that were just legit, well, that's where that conflict internally comes from. For me, the first thing I do social media not bringing the deer down to the same thing though, right, The first thing I do is because I kind of I don't have to, but

I put it on social media. Well, I mean, I'm in the business of selling backpacks and I have to get my name out there. And if you don't post what you've done you're kind of become inconsequential. You you become non existent, and so you have to I want to get to a point where I don't have to, all right, I just can go hunting and not have to worry about it. So, um as I say that, I have been very blessed, obviously, I just I started

a narrow company with a guy broadheads of this company here. Um, I get to hunt more than i'd probably anyone day there, you know, I get to hunt a ton, and so I've been very blessed. It's just at the end of the road, I would like to just be able to go hunting and photography. I'm about as addictive to photography as I am traditional archery, and that's some great stuff. I love your Instagram, Yeah yeah, but liking your princes and stuff like you can really tell to a passion.

Does that Does that ever help like bring calmerce slowness to you? Uh like hunting sometimes? No, not somewhat, you know what. I what It's kind of weird with photography. For a few years there I helped more than I hunted by far and the way the industry works. And there's a couple of guys specifically who like talked Craps saying and well, he never kills anything, he just helps people. And I'm like, man, what does the industry come to to where it's bad that I'm helping so many people?

Because I I had shot enough stuff that I just like going along and taking pictures. Well, obviously in the position I mean now I kind of had to do a little bit of a role reversal and just start piling up animals. Um, but I'm lucky enough now where I'll take the camera with me and photograph my own hunts as well as many others. And uh, you know, you start talking about the reasons why you're out there.

If you're out there to get more social media likes, you're out there for the wrong reason in in my opinion. If that's a byproduct of it, great, but you should be out there for the love of the animal, the love of the outdoors, the love of the sport, whatever you wanna call it. And for me, I think that shows. Uh, with the guys I hang out with it, they could care less if you know they're out there to hunt

and and everything else that buy product of that. Yeah. Yeah, I just think like a lot of your still images really capture something, you know, I definitely I wrote an article about it, and you know, stopping time, that's what I try and do, you know, and and video is much better bright and I suck at video. Like my my meal deer hunt was horrible as me looking like I was in a concentration camp daily in my tent because the only time I turn it on. But I

had amazing photos of the hunt. And if I can get um, you know, the best time is like in the misery of the hunt, if I can get a photo of that that really shows like like there's a photo of of my wife and she's got baggy eyes. She just woke up the stings coming out of the coffee where in that she's got her head lamp on, and it truly stopped. You could tell, like Jesus, she's tired.

It's first thing in the morning, she's drinking coffee. I find nothing more gratifying than as much as shooting an animal, almost as being all, yeah, yeah, there's one on the wall back here of a of a of a doll sheep that I that I took that as another time where the guy's coming over the hill. Anyway, it's one of those where I'm like, I remember that like it was yesterday and was able to stop that time for a moment and for guys to remember it. So yeah, right, um,

traditional archery, Aaron. Um, So to three years ago you started shooting trad archer thousand six, I'm gonna make a I'm gonna make a claim here, um, and we're not gonna test it. So it's just gonna people are just gonna have to make their own decision. I think at ten yards I could shoot with you with a trad bow. I think if we could go out in the parking lot right now by my mule trailer, ten yards, I

could shoot with you. Aaron, I agree, Um, because I know, I know that you're you're you're a gap shooter, So ten yards is probably a little tough. Well, actually, ten yards you'd you'd be in trouble. Um, eighteen to twenty two, you might have trouble. But I don't shoot gap the whole I shoot gap out about twenty eight and and out.

I shoot gap. I shoot instinctive inside of that, and uh, you know, with with traditional archery, the first thing I'll say is I was catapulted ahead of everyone else because of the clumps with brock Hume out right here. I was just there shooting before it came over here. Um and I started shooting a stick bow actually more as

to prove a point. Did a podcast I've told this story about the meantime, did a podcast on ethical shooting distance because I was the the a hole dropping bombs in a hundred yards and animals sometimes or even further with a compound and anyway, um wait, I can't even say a hole. Um, I'm just the uh. I gotta remember that for the when I keep talking. Um, I

an acronyms are sketchy, Okay, gotcha. So I pretty much had broke down, you know, as far as what's ethical for a compound and a stick bow and and and I had made fun of stick boy hunters forever um and was about the farthest thing from a traditional archer. And I got a bunch of emails after that podcast about your your crappy hunter, your you know, pick up a stick bow and see how successful you are. And the way my mind works, which is I think Tom clumb is, I don't know if I enamored, but he's

amazed by how my my brain works. And I sold every piece of compound equipment. I had literally inside of a week, I had a giant water of cash. I walked down to Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear and well the rest is history now. So yeah, that's how you got into it. Well the errand I had a so thirty seconds about my traditional archery career. Grew up compound hunting in two thousand five, started shooting a stick bow with

somebody gave it to me, but never hunted with it. Uh, killed my first gear maybe in two thousand seven, but it was just like a half hat, you know. It was just like, I'm gonna try this for a couple of hunts, had been shooting, but then in two six It was a long story, but I ended up. I ended up through a unique situation, ended up giving away my bow two weeks before season, my compound bow, and and it wasn't really intentional, it was just something I felt like I needed to do, so I did it.

And so the only thing that I had come in two weeks into season and sen was the stick bow, and I had killed by that time, I guess I had killed. I had killed two bears with it, and I had killed a deer with it. Killed the coyote with it, you know, but just peddled, never never committed. In sixteen is when that's all I had. And so I went into the sixteen season and uh and and killed seven animals in a row, two bears, four deer in a mountain lion with the traad bow that year.

And it was a unique situation just like what you did. It's like when you have no other choice and you're a hunter, I mean you it almost it almost felt like I was a caveman that they dropped out in the woods and you know, you had sent you and some juniper and uh, some stone points, and you were like,

you gotta survive. I mean that's why I felt, I mean even inside of from an outdoor media position, I mean like I understand, you know, I mean we're hunting and we're gathering content for It's like I needed to I needed to take some game. Yeah, and it but it but it was such a powerful experience to just be like I will either be successful with this or not. And I had a good streak and uh but anyway,

so it sounds like that's what you did. You went cold turkey there for a year and then you got out of it for a while per year, well eight, you know whatever part of one season. It's um was for a couple of different reasons. One, the amount of money I lost in endorsement contracts is crappy, right, And you don't get paid to shoot a stick from okay, from compounds from compound. Yeah, and uh, there was a lot of a lot, a lot of pressure. But even

today there's pressure to shoot a compound. I can shoot one pretty well and and um be successful with it, but how much the really the like the end of it of the compound was in in with Jeff Lander and we're in Alberta. I made a ridiculous stock, I mean like a one in a million chance to pull this off, and I made it, shot a buck and not much excitement was going on adrenaline with the compound. And then Brian Broderick was with me. He's a guy

partnered up with on day six Um Broderick. The same day that afternoon we went on a stock and the adrenaline level I had when he had his longbow in my hand and he knew what he could see it in my eyes. He's like, yeah, he's coming back to the dark side or the bright side. And everyone look at it. And when he shot that animals, I don't know, seven yards or something. Um, I was you know, in my mind, I didn't tell anybody. In my mind, I'm thinking, man, this is what is my passion? Like, what am I

doing shooting the compound? Um? And I you know, there's always there's a lot of compound guys that hate on stickbow guys. I was one of them, and you know they used as an excuse to suck um. And I thought, you know, I, um, I think I can be a success will or more so with this stick. I just have to buckle down. And and I've never said this before on a podcaster to anybody, but in my mind, I thought, I'm going to prove to myself I can be more lethal with a stickbow than I ever was,

or anyone can be with a compound. And I'm again I sound arrogant. I'm doing a good job. We got first this podcast we talked about, but I I wanted to be at a position and it's happened where if a stickbo a compound guy is making fun of a stickbow guy, I can be like the most Now I've kind of been humbled the last year with my stickbow. But before that, errand when I came out of that, the streak of I may have been seven. I think it was seventeen when I had the the seven animals

in a row. You've got no choice but to feel like and this is the way that I've said it, when I pick up that stickbow, I have got to feel like that I can kill any critter on the planet in any situation or or or I'm not gonna be successful because the thing that with the big transition for me, um would have been that for years because I told you I gotta well, I actually gotta stick bow. In two thousand one, uh, David Albright Bowyer in Arkansas gave me one. But for ten years I wasn't convinced

that it was an efficient killing weapon. I mean, I was just like, I'm not gonna kill stuff because this bow won't kill stuff, which is ridiculous. They're extremely efficient weapon. The mankind has been birthed on the meat harvested by traditional boats for the last ten thousand years. Killed in combat with arrows, and they have bullets in history, and that's before a compound. Because nobody's died in combat from a compound so giving an idea. Yeah, yeah, but that

but that attitude. So I'm identifying with that attitude of man, I've got to know and not not doubt myself because when you because so much a traditional archery is mental, I mean massively mental, and only as good as your last shot, and if your last shot was a bad one, you be able to be able to take it on the chin and get back up, or you're gonna have a long, long bad streak. Um. And that I mean, that's really just how it is. Um. There's not really

you know, any way around that. Um. I think Landers brought up to me, He's like, what are you gonna What's gonna happen when you have a bad year? And I'm like, I'm not gonna have a bad year. It's like it's not in me. You know, I probably will, right, but I'm like I can't let that go on in my mind. I'm like, I got it. I'm just not gonna have a bad year. Now. I've had some bad hunts. You know. That mule deer hunt was one that UM was was rough. Um. I pissed blood. I shouldn't have

said the P word p blood twice. UM had some kind of fungus on my hand. Um growing from whatever in twelve days into it ten days a hunting whatever it was, I still hadn't had a buck on the ground. Without a doubt, one pent season would have been over the first day with a compound. Um Lander had told me you will eventually get to a point where you won't go on a stock and say I could have killed it with my compound, and I didn't believe them, but it has happened. It will still cross my mind.

But the feeling I get after I finally pulled it off with a stick boat is far greater than anything I've felt with a compound. It's more self fulfilling, I guess you could say, um and so being driven our goal oriented like I am and everything else. The stick boat is just a good, good fit, and I have had a good streak of success and hopefully that continues. Okay, here's my next question is I'm I ask you a

question and then I gotta tell Colby something. But I don't want to forget the question what comes after this once you've accomplished it, because I know that happens inside of me. I set a goal to do something, whether it's a specific type of hunt, a specific way to do it. So that's the question. You've got five seconds to think about it, Kobe, why don't you go check on our mules. We got our mules out in the

out in the parking lot. I had to do this last podcast too, but I didn't do it on the air. I think that, uh, probably, once I get to a point where I'm fulfilled enough, I guess with the stick bow, I'll probably just help other guys and photographed their homes. I don't know that it will be another hunted. Do you ever see yourself going more primitive? I mean, is

that's something you're interested in? Not not now, you know, I mean like stone I mean because the progression you know, is to go to like a self bow with a stone point and stuff like that. Yeah, no, not not now. I might go to a long bow at some point, which really might maybe a lateral transition. You know, it's not really that different the um I don't not so much um right now? That could change. Um really, if I didn't have the love for photography and in photographing

other people's hunts, that might be different. But if I get to a point where, um, you know, I'm like, yeah, you know, this is still fun, but man, I'd really like to go with you know, Clay on a hunt.

I probably just travel around photographing hunts and occasionally hunting. Um, I don't think that that's gonna do You hear older hunters talk about this transition, this natural transition inside of hunting, and I bet you're just like me that when you were thirty years old, you said, there's no way that

that's ever gonna happen. So the transition would be originally you're just like interested in harvesting game, and then you go to more goal orientation, which is like I want to kill a specific animal in a specific way, in a specific place. And then you get to this place where you want to help others and and I've heard some people talk negatively about that, like, man, I'll I'll

fight to never lose that drive to kill stuff. And that's probably what I would have said ten years ago, Aaron, because that's to me, that's a definer of a successful hunter, is like this no quid attitude. And I mean, inside of hunting, the goal is to harvest the target animal. But and so I kind of feared that transition. But I'm I'm thirty nine. I'm I'm thirty nine years old the up check birthday here, and I sort of feel it now I have I have four kids that hunt.

But I'm still massively driven for to harvest. And I'm not saying that I don't want to, but I can kind of see where, like and it's not something to be afraid of, like getting to where you're talking about, like where maybe there comes this point where you've proven and I I track it inside of my help myself by the goals that I've accomplished over the years, you know, Like there was a point when I said, my goal is to kill a three and a half year old

buck or older in Arkansas every year with a bow. That was my goal when I was twenty five, and at the time that was a massive goal in Arkansas hunt is pretty tough. And I did it. I did it for ten years and I was like, you know what I can do that. I still enjoy killing the buck in Arkansas with my bow. Um, now I've I've transitioned to bears. I mean, like and then that's been

a lifelong thing. But like especially the last six years with the magazine, it's like my my goals seemed to be to travel all over North America killing bears in different We just came back from Montown on spotting stock mule based rifle hunt. I mean, and like that was pretty thrilling to me, even from a long range. I mean, we're carrying a best of the West long range husky moss scope that I could have taken a bear at a long ways And that was so different from what

I grew up in. It was kind of intriguing and uh point being like, I've got this new set of goals, but so are you afraid of that transitioner? No, it could be a no brains, no headache thing, but um, I don't think I'm gonna hit that transition. I'm different in that way. If if as far as like being uh without coming off sounding like a Neanderthal and I'm desk Lander, He'll tell you you got about put a shot caller on me. I haven't you know, people like, oh,

you'll be better trophy hunters you get older. Not so much. It's not hitting me too much. I mean, being as honest as I can be. Um, it's pretty bad. Um, it's still bad. Like I haven't calmed down much and but if it evolves, I mean, you know, that's maybe my brain doesn't work quite that way. And I think that in some ways, I guess it has evolved to a little bit, but some of it's just by the

structure of the hunt. Meaning if I go to Oklahoma and they say don't shoot a five and a half year or a four and a half or younger buck, I'm very very good obedient. I don't want to screw that up. I shoot a five and a hal af year old deer. The problem is, if I didn't have that rule, there's no telling what I would shoot. Um. I mean, I'm not saying I'm gonna shoot a for key, but I probably would have some trouble maintaining that five

and a half year old. That's just me um And and Landers will be the first guy to tell you that I am the happiest guy alive, whether it's a hundred fifty a hundred ninety in deer, and I just like hunting. Um. Now, I want to get beat up in the middle of it. I don't want to give me two deer. I want to work for one. And it's hard for people to understand because everybody's brains work differently. I would rather see a guy earn a hundred and fifty inch mule deer than shoot a gimme two hundred.

The deer doesn't matter to me, it's the story behind it, and a lot of guys didn't believe that until they hunted, with me Lander being one of them, I truly wanted to see. I. I like the adventure of the hunt, and the animal is kind of I'm not taking away from the animal. I'm just saying that the animal is a byproduct of the hunt. The hunt is what's important. But I also think that if you're out, they're not

taking animals. You know, maybe take up golf or maybe put some more effort into it, unless you just like to hike around. Because a lot of people seem to hunt. To just go hunting, there's nothing wrong with that, but you also have to you know, you can't. You can only blame yourself, and so maybe you should focus less on buying the coolest, newest gear and maybe focus more on theo craft and shooting your bow or something. Um. Not to get off the subject to that, but you

get out of it what you put into it. And you can't believe anybody but yourself. Okay, last traditional archery question unless you want to talk about something else there. So inside of all this, uh, all this talk with the clumb method, which I've been I've been just recently kind of following some of that, and and and and it's influenced some of the things that I'm doing some of some of it. I told Colby some of these things. I mean, I was kind of I mean, I didn't.

It wasn't a dramatic, dramatic shift with a few things, Aaron, what would you say is the most impacting thing inside of your traditional archery form and shot? So we're getting like tech nerd traad archery because I know there's all these there's all these different things that you could say. What would you say it would be the most the most critical component of an accurate shooter in terms of mechanics. Man,

it'd be hard to pick just one um. In fact, I'm not gonna do it because then that would like sell it way short. But I would have to say, just um, the general shot execution, as far as the proper steps um that you take initially, meaning you know, having this I'm gonna simplify it, having the same anchor point every time, having the same clean release every time. Repeatability is extremely important. But I'm gonna squirrel, I'm gonna

rabbit hole really bad. I just read an article in a magazine that basically pooh pooed on three under and gap shooting, and you can't be success full that way. Um, that's what I do. And I've shot more animals and again, sound and arrogant anyone I know of in two years that humble comment. And this is where that's where I get in trouble is is statements like this, And I'm not saying it is a bragging thing. What I'm saying is if one guy wants to snap shoot and swing shoot,

I'm not gonna stop him, right. But to say that the method that I was taught by through Tom Clumb can't be successful hunting, well, I'm living proof that that is a lie. That is wrong. And how many snapshooters do you know? They can't hit a bullet. I'm about to cuss, I'm gonna rewind. They can't hit a barn wall. Yeah, they can't hit a barn wall from the inside of

the barn. I know a lot of them. A lot of them actually give me crap about the strugglestick comment when I know they can't shoot worth the crap, I mean it, it is what it is. I think that if you get taught correctly out of the gate, you can choose to snapshoot if needed. If you get taught to snapshoot out of the gate, you cannot choose to shoot correctly. And that's not really an argument. The sun will come up tomorrow, It is as sure as that.

How many snapshooters do you know? They have to close their eyes to hold a full draw pretty much everyone? I know how many guys that to that go to full draw and operate a c clicker correctly? Can you say, hey, will you snapshoot quick? And they can snap shoot? Yeah? So you're saying if you build the foundations right, then you have totally a lot more options inside you're shooting. As long as you've got mental control. Um, you can do.

I mean, I snap shoot white tails all the time if they walk by and I gotta I'm not saying run by, but walking by, I can snapshoot. I'm not pulling through the clicker. Um, if it's a noise situation where there's a chance that that buck might I know when it's going to go off. To a certain degree. If I have to, you know, just start my back tension and fire a little early. I've made a conscious decision when to shoot that bow. When you're a snapshooter,

there's no conscious decision. It hits your face and it's it's gone. There are some people that are decent that way, but for the most part, Um, the swing snap shooting is in my very short career, is a recipe for disaster. For longer, instinctive shooting by fred Aswell, I'm talking about fred Asbell. Yeah, don't follow anything that says um in my opinion, Okay, okay, if you if you want to have a lifelong history or a lifelong career of snapshooting

and target panic, read that book and memorize it. And I'm not taking away from anything he's done for the sport. The guy has been amazing for it. I'm just saying, if you don't want to get target panic and you want to be accurate, I would follow what That's the

book that Tommy had to shoot traditional archer here. Yeah, and I can't say that I totally follow it, but the the ideas of instinctive shooting that he like, I still I did snapshoot for years, and dude, just I do to some degree still today and I and I want to tell you just my little just a short spill, but some of the ideas that he gave me gave me some foundations about bow arm A draw that was going to the same place every time, clean release. Now

he was split fingers. At one point I saw Barry Winsell, I think, shoot three under. I had trouble for ten years with accuracy shooting split fingers, and one day I saw, I think it was Barry Winsell shoot with three under, and it just made snit sense. I literally got out of my turn the TV off of watching the DVD or something, went and got my bow and my shooting was like incredibly better. But let's see where am I going with this. I so that did give me some

good foundation, just some mechanics. The idea that that bow will you the same every single time if you do the same thing every single time. Um, But that and I'm not arguing that can't be argued. And that's what There's things he says that I agree with. There's other things that are a recipe. Well, let's say he's got the strongest mine in the world, which he must have if he's never had target panic, um, the snapshooting letter, riptater chip. If you can do that, yeah, you're not

going to have a problem. The problem is that most people can't. I think it's close range. And this is what I was gonna say. And my focus inside of traditional archery has not has been to kill game inside of fourteen yards. That in in in the way that I've done it, that's worked for me. I've I've I've wounded and missed less game with the traditional bow that

I have with my compound. But it's because I've I've the style of hunting that which I'm not hunting out a way trying to stock a muleteer and get a forty yards shot, not hunting mountain goat. You know I'm hunting. So so I go back to that to say, you know,

it does work if you have certain limitations. And that's the one thing I remember fred Asbo in his book saying is that and this doesn't go against you, please don't take it that but don't worry about that, but that you can either become a better shooter, you can become a better hunter. And so he was like, get closer. I mean, that's what I remember him saying. That's a twenty five year old reading that book. It was like, yeah, so if I can shoot this bow, and really for

years it was ten yards. If I gotta get within ten yards a game, and then I can tend ring them. And so that became this cool concoction for me. That was fun and and and so. Anyway, so when I see guys like you, which i'm uh, you know, shooting at forty yards, man, I can't shoot at fort yards. I did challenge you jokingly on Facebook the other day and said that I could teach you something about traditional archery. I think knew that was a joke private message, of course.

But it's never been my goal to shoot forty But I have been tried to be as good as I could out to fifteen killed some game out past twenty. But you know, and I don't and I'm trying again. I'll say it, I said it earlier. I'm not taking anything away from what that man has done for the sport, right yeah, I mean, but what I am saying is, um, if you, um well, I could pick a ton of different other athletes, but let's just focus on this. If if well, we're gonna use me for an example, and

I'll take the brunt of it. And inside of a year with Tom Clumb, I was shooting paper plates are smaller at forty yards, winning pretty much every tournament I went to and shooting very well and having some success with hunting animals all over the place. I don't think that could be argued that that will work. Now will it work? And I and I've talked with the guys at Black Widow that um aspell whole to class there and it's ten fifteen yard shots. If that's what you're into,

I'm not gonna man. I'm the last guy to tell you to shoot farther. But I'm also I'm not going out there too. I'm going out there to shoot something. And uh, if I'm proficient at thirty four, that's gonna up my odds the forty yards a bit far. I've taken two animals at forty and it's certainly not what I prefer. But um you know, if there's a dear bed at thirty two, I can shoot softballs at thirty two all day. Do you want to close that distance by half? Or do you want to kill it where

it lays? I'm gonna kill it where it's laying. UM, and if I can shoot closer. I've shot animals at four ft and at forty three yards and pretty much everywhere in between. I just don't think you can do it consistently past fifteen to eighteen without Tom's Yeah, I agree with it. I mean, that's been so before, and I'm starting to be influenced by I'd love to go do a class with him. UM, but what you just

said is exactly right. I with the methods that I've used, I have been very proficient out the fift eighteen yards. And I mean, and that's problem maybe the limitation of a guy that is shooting that, and there's plenty of guys that could shoot better than that, because I think inside of that, then there's like the individual talent and skill and hand eye coordination and ability of the individual archer, which varies greatly. There's some guys that are just naturals,

some guys that are not. I think I'm probably in the you know, I'm proficient with it. I'm I'm I'm in there. I'm not gonna say where I think I'm at point being I think I think that sometimes, especially the traditional archery world there's so much uh. Well, I think a guy's goals have to be factored in, and you're such a you're such a great uh and dominant personality inside of it. I guess you know it's not

the only way. You know, what I'm saying, What you're saying the thousand percent right to be accurate out to forty. I'm totally convinced after what I've heard that, but a guy could still be successful inside of snapshooting just getting into fifteen yards. Yeah, and the big thing, just so

I'm not taking too far out of context. How many people do you know are gonna be on the ninth they have a mule deer hunt snapshooting consistently or whatever you wanna call it, and have an animal at twenty and not take the shot, not more than any And so for for me, and again, I'm green, right, I just started doing this. That guy's been in here longer

and I've been alive. Okay, so again, but it's gonna be hard to convince me that the most that that what Tom teaches is not the most proficient way, because you can choose to snap shoot with Tom, sister. I like that. I like what you just said that, and I think it probably is, but only that's all I know. But what I you know when I say that's all I know, I know of a bunch of thirty eight forty five year old to sixty year year old men that can't hold the string to their face without closing

their eyes and literally short draw. And they tell me their bows seventy pounds at twenty eight, but they're drawn to a solid twenty five and a half because they're snapshooting. And I'm going off of what i've seen, and again I'm very blunt and very open. You can't take away what I've seen because I've seen it, and you can't take away the fact that I see guys that can't hit the bail at twenty yards and I'm not This isn't just the compound guys, the same way I'm not

picking on trad archers. What I what I what I've seen, though, is tom take a guy brand new green, mold that guy into someone who's proficient in a very short period of time at twenty yards. He may never shoot past twenty, but he's also not going to suffer from target panic as quick. He's not going to suffer from short drawing is quick and when you um, well you're overbowed. But when you use the snapshooting method, it is very own to short drawing. Short drawing is bad. And um, trying

to keep me out of this too too much? Um, I look at um the god, how' m gonna put this back in too much trouble? Um. There was a reason when I got into traditional archery, I didn't want to get into it. Okay, there wasn't really a spokesman, and I'm not saying I'm a spokesman, but there wasn't a spokesman that made it cool. Um, there's a lot of spokesman that make it cool. Now. That doesn't mean distance.

That just means it's a cool thing to do. Um. And it's highlighted the the the reasons why you should be doing it to make it I say cool, but really, for two people want to do. What I always said was that trad archery. When I was growing up, shooting three D targets with my dad was all the old men's shot trad It was an old man's sport. But but now we've got this, this this cast of people that are making it cool. Yeah, I mean I'm excited at about it because it's changed me. It's not only

just a hunter, but as a person. And I'm and I don't know if I'm hunting for different reasons, but I'm I'm certainly um out there for the challenge, you know. And and and I don't want to think that I'm picking on the old crowd or as Bell. I'm just stating what I've seen. And it would be interested to have Tom and fred Is on a debate. I would like to hear them go back and forth. I'm not gonna be able to do it. I've done long enough. They're gonna be like this guy's I bet they would.

And I don't want to pit them against each other though, Aaron, you know, I mean like their methods are different, for sure, but just like in anything, there's different ways to do stuff with different goals. And and man, both of those guys, in my mind are are iconic heroes the traditional archery, I mean, you know, But and I certainly wouldn't look

at it as putting them against each other. What I would do is it gives to people to you know, waste, okay, Republican Democrat for guys green and just getting into you know who am I going to vote for. You're not putting two people against each other. You're just hearing and then they can choose for them. So I don't think there's any I don't think there's any conflict really, like in terms of I think people when they see Clumb's method, that makes sense. I mean to me, and and I am.

I told you, I was absolutely influenced by Asbell with his book. I've got it on my shelf. It's like it's like an iconic book taught me, got me started. And when I started seeing this stuff with Clum, I was like, yeah, that makes sense. What he's saying makes a ton of sense. And and and I and I'm and I'm kind of gradually moving that direction. So I mean, and I think what we're seeing inside the traditional archery world is a natural progression that we find inside of everything.

I mean, there's there's people that there's a way of doing things, and then all of a sudden, there's a new generation of people that say, hey, there's a there's a better way to do this. And then there's gonna be some people for the old that pick on that guy and get mad at him. But you know, and I think that's not really the the part to focus on, you know, but I think I think what you're doing is awesome. It's helping me that That's all I can say is that, Um, it really has. It's inspired me

to be a better traditional archer. Uh. And I think it's working. It is because the stuff that I'm following and checking out clumb and Tyler Friel a friend of mine, uh, rights for Barony magazine something I know he's been with clumb And Uh. Now, it's cool stuff. It really is. It's cool stuff. I like it. I like the fact that it Um. When I started, there wasn't anyone to

go to. Okay, there wasn't any social media guy. South was one, but South South like South a mule deer guy, not a When I say, I've never can rem a lot better now than he did when I first met him. He shoot pretty good now? I mean does he do it? Is he? He's got a clicker on in the whole nine cards? Colby, How are the mules fantastic? They're just chilling out in there. Just should pellets? You should have

given some pellets. Uh. I think that Um, when um, you know you're never going to be able to make traditional archery a long distance sport. Um meaning it's just just capabilities of it, right, I mean, you just can't. You can't shoot far accurately no matter how I mean. There's times that I'll shoot a paper plate at fifty sixty yards of have something I can hold on with my point over not a shot I'm gonna taken. I mean, I guess on a second arrow, I might attempt that,

but you hit it the first time. Yeah, exactly. If I've made a shot and I think, man, this is I need another arrow in it. But um, well, Randy and Denny, Randy Cooling and Denny Sturgis said you should at least have a plan for a longer shot. I agree with that. You know, it's not a bad idea. You get one and you need to get another one in it. You should at least have a decent idea rather than just gripping and ripping. Um. They they face walk the different anchor points, which I never messed. That's

not my cup of tea. Um well, have you ever read like Fred Beresfield notes, Okay, shot at forty went under it, shot at at fifty went under it, shot at sixty went under it hit it in the fomorl at seventy Okay, Well, obviously the founder of archery was winging him out there. Okay, if it doesn't take too long to read that. I think he shot his leopard at a hundred in some yards. I don't remember. It's far. Okay. I'm not saying follow that footsteps or you should do that.

They can't do that anymore? Um right? For what why is that? Why can't we why can't we follow up? Well, I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm not saying we should say because the world is so much more transparent than it used to be because of social media. Yeah, so I'm agreeing with you. No, I'm just saying I wanted you to say it. Everything's out there now, right right, So it's should we or shouldn't we? We should certainly shouldn't post it, okay, with that's without a doubt, no

one should see that, should we? As far as accuracy, probably not, because I don't think very many people are that accurate at that distance. When I say that distance past forty forty and n forties uh ten percent of the time five percent of the time, meaning right person, right place, right time, probably let maybe five inside of twenty. Yeah, it's an eighty percent right inside a for the most

part that forty it's all on each person. Most people, if they're in the woods, are gonna be accurate after eighteen or twenty they probably shouldn't be in the ones. Again, pretty hard to get closer than ten yards. My looking at this, starting out with a compound where I could shoot over a hundred consistently, I had to immediately change my hunting style, right, I totally war reversal. I had

to become more patient. I had to see animal behavior. Well, when the animal stands up at seventy and you just shoot it, you're not seeing a lot of animal behavior now at seventy that maybe four were more hours before I get to take a shot. So it's it's made me and what I would hope that it would help other people is become more of an animal afficionado. You're becoming a better hunter as you do this. Does the

forty yard thing help? Oh? Yeah? The fact I can shoot forty in paper plate the softball sizes, it puts me a step above where I can take that shot in the right situation. That right situation is generally a bet animal because yeah, yeah, and the bows are quiet enough that they generally don't hear it go off. Um. And I've got a point to all of this. I think that when people look at traditional archery, I think they should look at it as you say, progression. You know,

that's one way to look at it. If you're bored with the compound, you should pick up a stick book. If you suck with the compound, pick up a stick bow. You are already suck, right, um, stick bost funder and And I hate to be that blunt, but it's true. If you're just on a good shot with a compound,

pick up a stickbow, start from scratch, get coaching. I can tell you now, it's a hell of a lot fun or to suck with a stick bow than it is with a compound, because with a stick bow you can stump shoot, you can shoot squirrels, you can shoot things you just can't really do with the compound. Um. That probably sounded harsh, but it's true. You know a lot of know a lot of guys that aren't real

proficient out the thirty with a compound. I'm like, dude, pick up a stickbow, start over you've already got all these bad habits and grain in your brain. With a compound, you can start from start fresh. Yeah, exactly. And I think I try to point people in that direction. And there's some guys that should shouldn't have a stickbow or a compound in their hand, you know, there's some guys that they should maybe not be hunting. Um when I say that mean they need to put more effort into it, maybe,

is what I should say. So anyway, I'm going down to rabbit hole here. Well, the to me, what I've always liked about traditional archery is that, and I think Aaron is the reason that I got into it originally. Now it took me a while to get like deep into it. Was because you cannot fake being a tread bow shooter, I mean, and and that's the thing. Like compound archery is so proficient, Like compound the technology of

a compound bow is so proficient. I can take my daughter out and within two hours of buying her a new compound bow, she can pretty much be ready to bow hunt a white tail deer inside of fifteen yards and probably two hours minus adrenaline proficiency hit a target and uh man, you can't fake being a tread archer and be successful. Now you can get lucky, you can, but I mean you, and I think that to me is probably one of the bigger things that I like

about it. And what I respected about these old traditional archers that I didn't know is that they were authentic.

And I think, to me, that's that's probably in me, like the magnetism that I see that I that I like inside of people's when I see somebody that's authentic and a lot and some of the traditional archers and specifically I'm talking about I doubt he'll listen to this podcast, but my brother's father in law, David Albright of Bowyer in Arkansas, Man, when when he talked to me about bow hunting, and I was a compound archer when I was in my early twel in my early twenties when

I was talking to him about traditional archery, and I was like, man, that's the way to bow hunt. And and to this day I still shoot some compound, but but I recognized that you couldn't fake what he was doing and be successful. That's what I like about it. I'm looking up David Albright, where have I heard that name before? What he's he's a bowyer. I don't even know if you'll find David online. David is a David is as he's my brother's father in law. Have been

making bows for years and years. He killed a hundred and fifty five inch deer on a public ground and the Washington Mountains of Arkansas with his trad bow this year. First I've heard that name before, and there's only reason why. That's why I's playing with my phone to look it up. But man, I I agree. I just met Marv Clinky, who's like a legend in Colorado, for the first time,

like an hour and a half ago. Um, and uh, I just said, hey, it's it's an honor to meet you in not knowing the guy, and I'm I'm you know, I'm not taking away he's done more for traditional archer and called bow hunting in Colorado than anyone in my opinion. It's the fact I know what he's killed and I know how close he's killed it, and that's amazing to me.

I'm enamored by that, especially coming from the compound and then the first year kind of having the you know, pit for stumbling and everything else, and then gaining more and more success and knowing what it takes, the fact you might be laying there for five or six hours at sixty yards to hopefully get shot. Well, how many times has he done that? The dudes seventy eight years old? Okay, so he's done that a lot, right, Who knows how many times? Because he's gotta pile a big deer on

the wall high country bucks. Um. And so I agree. I mean to me, like, um, some of the guys that are super are successful with the stickbow. Um. You know I'm looking at there's a lot of admiration there for what they've done. And they didn't have Tom's clinic, so you know you're there shooting at close. I mean, you know when I say Tom, there's other the push guys are really helpful. Joel's kind of a brain doctor turner.

And and then you know there's um a coach that Randy and Denny use a lot, and he's kind of the same as Tom as far as that goes. Uh, I just forgot his name, good, Uh Rod Rod Jenkins. He's another coach down south that's um, you know, great for you know, kind of teaching more of the Tom and I argue sometimes I'll say that right now when it comes to his methods and what I he taught me and how I've morphed him. Do you want to talk about this at all? As I'm running at the mouth,

what whatever you want? Man? Um all that? I want all that. The next thought I have in my mind is I want to talk to you. I want to tell you about my bow. Okay, the uh the thing with Tom is there's things that he taught me more Feta style shooting that I have not done. I hunch over right, I can't, Um, I don't curl the wrist this much, and and and do uh draw into the clicker like he teaches? Because I think it's harder to draw into the clicker that way consistently with an animal

in front of you. So even though I should be drawing that way, I draw differently because my clicker goes off at a different time and I wanted to be consistent. Um, I don't think that alignment. UM you know, the release things like that can be argued, whether it's as Bell or Tom. That needs to be the same every time, Right, you got to do that? UM. Where I think that um,

people uh struggle not necessarily as just the coaching. They get a bow their six ft one and have a twenty nine inch draw, and their buddy gives them a fifty six inch bow and the arrows aren't flying right and they don't know what to do. So the moral of my story is here, whosever path you follow, find someone to you need help in the beginning. You're not gonna just walk into it like a compound. You can

wing it and still be successful. You can't wing it with a open you can't wing it with a stick bow. But go ahead and tell me about your bow now. So the bow that I'm currently shooting and have shot for several years now, or the brand would be a timber ghost traditional bows. And we talked about it at one time, and I tried to get Can't to send you one at the time, but you we didn't. It just didn't work out. But what I'm shooting right now

is a timber ghost. It calls the G three S S. It's a takedown bow, it's a it's a it's a um bell, a belly mount limb limbs or belly mounted, kind of like the Black Widow eron, but it has a superstatic The S S of the G three S S stands for superstatic and it's one of the fastest bows, recurved bows on the planet. It looks like it'd be fast. It's got some curly tipped limbs on that. Yes, and it's uh man, it's it's it feels super good in hand,

it's quiet, it's pretty short. Um, he makes different sized risers. I've got the thirteen inch riser. I think I'd rather have an eleven inch riser. But super sweet bow Man for real, Kent. I think it's doing some stuff that's pretty revolutionary. Um inside inside the tread bow, you know, the bow of your world. But anyway, uh, you ought to shoot it. I got it out in the truck. Yeah, yeah, I got my targets in the back, so um, we can do that. I'm looking at it now. I I

definitely have fallen in love with the widow. I've shot a pile of different bows, though. Um, I uh, I'm one of those I say, weird guys, but like five inch feathers, I get crap about shooting five inch feathers. Well, I've killed a lot of stuff with five inch feathers. I'm free to switch. I mean I said that on a podcast the other day, They're like, why don't you shoot smaller feathers, And I'm like, well, I'm not dropping bombs at eighty yards. Wind isn't really first and foremost

wind drift. In my mind, I'm trying to shoot things sub twenty, so I don't worry about it. But yeah, that looks like that is a slick looking bow. Yuh. He gets a good guy, cancer really kinds a good friend of He's a bow you're there in Arkansas. He's actually the My favorite bow that he makes, though, is the Smoke Smoke Bow, which is a fifty six inch hybrid longbow, and I feel like I just shoot it really well, but the riser is really small and I'm not I'm not a big guy, so I like a

smaller bow. But anyway, I'd love for you to just hold it in your hand out there, Aaron. You could. You can shoot Narra out of it. But man, when you ditched me for in British Columbia, um, I actually hadn't planned on shooting trad in my spring bear season. And so like three weeks ago, Jeff Lander was like, Hey, Aaron's gonna be in camp. You got to come. That's okay,

I'll come. So, Kobe, what did I do? I started shooting the trad bow out of the global headquarters of Bear Hunting magazine lot and and I'm being completely transparent, man, I had put the bow down and and hadn't shot that much. But but I carried it to Montana on this rifle hunt. And we were planning on shooting every day, but I ended up stinking chasing bears so hard. We we had a tough We had a tough hunt. Awesome, incredible adventure, incredible monumental thing for me. Uh, Aaron, I've

had a goal. I trained mules, and that's a new thing in my world. Didn't grow up doing it. But three years ago train the mule. My goal was to take the Montana and bear hunt on it. And so this was, uh, this was the completion of that quest. And uh, long story short, we were in the back country so much I didn't even get to shoot. But I'm going to British Columbia next week and I'm gonna have to do some clean up. But I'm I'm gonna have to shoot. I'm shooting good, but yeah, you're stacking

him in there. But yeah, Jeff, we gonna have to get closer. Funny. He called me and said, uh, can you not shoot one? It's I grew super quick. And I'm like, I don't. Yeah, whatever, man, I don't. I've shot a bunch of them. When you what do you want me to wait for? You said, Clay's coming up. Can you wait to shoot one until he gets there? And I'm like, yeah, man, I'll wait if you want me to. I've had good success. We were gonna fill

me man, which is good because I hate being on film. Um, it's funny the first uh, And I'll try and keep this short. The well, I shot a turkey with my bow and sixteen was the first animal. But when I had had gone up there, um, you know I had all these things people were telling me, the clums and anyway, all these different Uh you know that your hunt begins where it ends with the compound, and you know, yeah, yeah,

And it was true. Went up with this stock and I'm looking at this Barrett forty yards and I'm thinking you would be so dead if I had my compound right and and came back out, went back in on a different approach, and I don't know what I was forty something from it, and um, I'm like, I just don't think I can hit it, you know, And even now I wouldn't take the shot, and I can shoot forty,

just bad angle and everything else. So I mouse squeaked and it came right in and um, they're kind of blind and it stood on this log above me close and I thought, I'm just gonna shoot it on a frontal you know. I taken lots of elk on a frontal deer and a shot and uh, whether I collapsed or crap my pants or whatever, shot between its feet. And Tom Senior told me, you will kill multiple animals on your second arrow, guaranteed. They don't know what's gone

off with a com pound. That's a done deal. They're they're gone. Bear kind of picked up his paw and looked at it, and I thought, what I shoot his toenail off cheese and put it back down, turned broadside and I'm like, okay, okay, I got another chance, and I hit him on that one, and uh, it was a big thing because you know, picking up the stick and am I gonna be able to do this? And it was great with landers and it was ended up

being a big bear. Did I write an article that was in magazine the first traditional archills in Bear Honey, Big Gamekiller, Game Kill, so you know I had done that, and then uh, you know, fast forward a little bit did pretty well at tournaments and I'm like, you know,

this isn't gonna be that bad. Well then opening DAYA of season elk and deer, Um, I missed a deer three times at seventeen twenty something and I don't know, and uh so we hunted some more for elk after that, and I think I clipped an elk in the leg and I had lots of other shots I didn't take that I would have but I just didn't feel comfortable with.

And we came back. Um, you know, it's probably September five or something, so six seven days in the season, and um came back for a couple of days from the elk hunt, and Frank and I went out for a day hunt and I end up shooting a mule deer at four ft um like literally my broadhead was pine between its antlers when I drew back like close close. Frank's on all photos and that was the super addicting thing. I would have never done that, you know, it was one of those I'm in my socks and uh end

up standing on the rock above it, shoot it straight down, unbelievable. Well, by some miracles, end up killing an elk short a few days after that. Well, anyway, fast forward, I'm in Alberta with with Jeff, and I didn't know the success right up there with a stick bow. It was like point one per cent, right, So I get a shot on the second day that I missed and I end up killing a tank. It's on the wall out there on whatever day it was. And and Jeff says, you're

the third one. And I'm like, third one? What? And He's like, a third one to kill a guy? Kill one with stickbow up here in like eighteen years. And I'm like, well, you didn't tell me that crap when you told me to come up here and a hunt. I and ended up being a big deer. And I'm like, all right, I can do this right, And I think that, um, the the help I guess what I'm leading up to is because of Lander and Tom and other guys, my

buddy Paul and many other people. The help they've given me has been I mean, it can't be quantified in with shooting a stick bow, right, And I try to be that person for other people now, because it is something that will I mean, it'll change your life in my opinion if you if you really stick with it. Yeah, yeah, that's all I have to say about that. Right on, man, right on? How long have we been going, Kobe? One hour and four minutes and seconds? Thanks, thanks for taking

the time to meet up with Aaron. I really appreciate it. Man. No, I appreciate you guys having me on here. And I'm yeah, I'm sorry. I had to be an adult for a little bit and be at work, so I'm sorry I stood you up in BC. But look at it this way. That's more bears for you. More bears, more bears. Well, um, close, Kobe. Any closing questions or anything that we had. I mean, I didn't really have a massive agenda there, and I

just wanted to come by and see Kafaru. I want to see some of the stuff, wanted to wanted to outshoot Aaron uh in the back here just quickly now, I'm kidding. We probably got to go pretty quick, but we're driving home to Arkansas tonight. We got about a twelve hour driving front of us, all right, I think, just to summit up just from like listening and stuff. It sounds like one of the things you really do is just surround yourself with like good people and mentors.

You know. It sounds like you grow a lot from just taking away positive aspects from other people. I think. So that's a good trait to have, definitely, and guys that keep you in check. If you surround yourself with people that tell you you're awesome all the time, pretty soon you can do no wrong. I between Brian Broderick and Clay and Tom and Lander, I am I am constantly put in check, which I think is also a good thing. So yeah, I've got I got one more.

I got one more thing, you know. So So I just moved to Arkansas from Texas and my legs are not uh up to part yet. So we went to Montana and man, I was just I was struggling, and so I remember one part like we were doing something on the mountain and your voice came in my head and just had suck it up. Buttercup, I don't even know if you've ever said that. I say it all the time, but there's a lot of other things I say to Did it help it? Did it? Did it?

Did well, it just I realized that I realized that my fitness isn't gonna get me up this mountain. I just gotta get tough, you know, you gotta have some mental toughness and pushed through. So yeah, because I was pretty sure you had actually said that, because the first podcast I think I ever listened to was to put it on your voice, smel suck it up, butter Cup, Suck it up, Buttercup. Hey, Kobe only fell off the meal one. Um good mulet eight miles on mules in

less six days. Uh yeah, I'm not not so much for me. I'm not not. I mean, what is uh their dodgy in the front and back and untrustworthy in the middle. Um yeah, yeah that's about I rode one with with bar to horse on the goat hunt, and I ejected off at several times. I got really good at ejecting off, which, um no, I uh, I know. I'm glad I can help, and I truly, Um, I hate to say it, I know more overweight successful hunters than I do skinny ones. So there's something something to

be said about mental toughness. Um, it goes a long way. I think that's a massive thing. That. You know, there's so much of a trend inside outdoor outdoor world right now about physical fitness, which is fantastic. It's a good thing to be physically fit. It's a good thing to take care of your body. But it's not the only thing. I mean, and I'm not in any way trash. I mean, you know, we gotta we gotta be physically fit to be able to stay stay doing what we're doing as

long as we can. But that's my goal inside of physical fitness is just I want to be I want to be hunting, you know, when I'm sixty and seventy years old. That means I got to take care of my body. Means I can't be you know. But but you don't have to be an ultra athlete to go hunting and be successful. But it helps, it help you look at well like ultra like with Cam Cam pretty much on hunts on private land now and he's still extremely fit right right, So, but you know he was

getting it done backpack hunting years ago. He didn't do it as much now. But the thing that I try to explain to people, if you were gonna tear importance, Okay, shooting is important. Animal anatomy and is important, bushcraft is important, and physical fitness is certainly not up in my opinion,

in the top three. They're important, but well, i'd say fit fitness is mid road because if you're smart, you know animal behavior, you can go up some mountain help out slower than if you suck um animal behavior because you're gonna blow it out and you're gonna have to need physics. You're gonna need physical fitness. You know animal behavior and you're smart and pushcraft. Physical fitness isn't important because they're a good chance you'll get it done the

first time. And that's what I try to explain to guys. And so you need you do need to have to try to have the total package, right, Yeah, you know for what the mule the reason I like hunting off mules are and it is totally a I mean, I'm from Arkansas and the ozark is kind of the mule epicenter of North America and many rights in terms of training and breeding, so it's kind of a cultural thing, you know. I kind of enjoy that. I enjoy the

training of it. But on this hunt, and this was the first time that I've done it myself, brought my own animals and hunted. It was. It was massively successful in terms of us of getting on game. Especially Cobby just self admitted that he wasn't physically ready for Montana. I told him we were going a week before we left, Okay, so are disadvantage. I'm afraid to lookie and I here. So he wasn't ready and and uh, and that's not a shameful thing, it's just that that that's just the truth.

I wouldn't have been ready if you told me a week before we went. But the mules compensated for that. Now he had to be tougher in other areas because he had to learn how to write a mule and stay on it and not be afraid of it. And uh, and he did awesome and that. But so anyway, it was fun though it was. It was a ton of fun. But Aaron, Hey, thanks a lot, man, I really appreciate it. Uh, everybody knows where they can find Aaron Snyder's podcast Kafaro podcast.

Um and at least my bad Aaron writes, for the last three or four years, you've written at least one article, Yes, which is amazing because um, I write really for no one else because I don't have time. But you like me enough to write for you, or I like you enough to write right. Well, Hey, you've been on the cover of bar Hunting magazine twice. Thereon there you go. If I write one on this predator hunt, will you

put me on there again? Well, if you kill a bear, I can't put a mountain line on there, even though I want mountain lion article. Are for real? Do Yeah? I love mountain lion hunting and I think it ties directly on with our bear houndsman. Uh like bart I mean, anybody that's bear hunting with hounds that's gonna be interested in big game hunting with hounds. So I totally want a mountain lion article. Maybe I'll maybe I'll get a big one with Barton June and I can wrap them

all together about hounds and everything. And I think that's important that people understand the dynamic of hounds and how important they are with predator control. Right on, right on? Well, hey, thanks Aaron, And uh keeps the wild places wild because that's where the barriers live. Thanks again,