First Lite Layering with Kevin Harlander

go to Lacrosse Footwear dot com. My name is Clay Nucleman. I'm the host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into the world of hunting the icon of North American wilderness to Bear. We'll talk about tactics, gear, conservation, but will also bring you into some of the wildest country on the planet chasing betterment. I was in Bozeman, Montana last week, and Kevin Harlander and I sat down and we had a great conversation. Kevin is the First

Light community manager. We get into the nitty gritty of layering systems, Marino wool, and how to effectively use first light gear. So this is kind of a technical podcast with with with gear stuff, clothing stuff, but Kevin and I also have a great time. You'll get to learn about Kevin some of his hunting. He's a he's a super elk hunter. Grow up in Minnesota. You're gonna enjoy it.

I want to bring your attention to a code, a code that we're gonna give out where you canna get five dollars off of subscription to Bear Hunting Magazine right now, we're working on September October issue. If you go to our new subscription section at Bear hyphen Hunting dot com, bear dash Hunting dot com, you can type in the code b h M twenty, So that's like Bear Hunting Magazine acronym be a GM twenty. Get five dollars off a new subscription. Lastly, I want to talk about our

buddies at the Western Bear Foundation. Western Bear Foundation is a nonprofit hunting conservation organization that's situated right out there and uh in Cody, Wyoming, right amongst right in amongst all the the some of the difficulty that they're having with with with the grizzly bears, black bears, a lot of things going on out there that that we need a voice and The Western Bear Foundation is creating a new narrative for hunters out there by a lot of

the stuff they're doing their membership based organization. So they're they're they're fueled by the funds brought in by members. So I want to encourage it. Joined the Western Bear Foundation. Check them out. Great organization fighting for the rights of hunters and the the good the black bears. Hey onto the podcast from Bozeman, Montana. Kevin Harlander all right, welcome to the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I am in Bozeman, Montana,

also known as the Bozone. I've learned that Bozeman, Montana today and I've got I've got with me Kevin Harlander of First Light. Kevin is the community manager Community manager First Lights. Yeah, we are, man, this is really cool for me. We're at the Meat Eater Global Headquarters. Now, Kevin, you may not you may not know this about Bear Hunting Magazine, but we have we call the Bear Hunting Magazine where we're where we're at the global headquarters. I

like that. That's what it says on a signed the global headquarters at first like two over and catch him yeah, first like global HQ. Yeah. Yeah, So man, we're at. We're actually in the podcasting studio of of Meat Eater,

which is a cool thing. And to give a little context of why that we're here, is that First Light, as everybody would know, has recently been acquired by meat Eater and uh and so Kevin it was in First Like it's based out of Catchum, Idaho, about five hours from here, and you guys came down and our are are showing some of the new products, talking about some of the stuff with uh, with with the people here

at meat Eater. Yeah, that's correct. So we've been working with meat Eater and Steve specifically for a long time. He's one of our our longest partners, and so yeah, we've been recently acquired and nothing's changing on our end, and UH, it's been really positive just to be able

to collaborate with these guys on a closer level. So we're up here with Bridget and Forward in a bunch of our marketing team and I'm just kind of showcasing some of our product that we're putting in a gear testing for these guys help out a lot with that, um, since they're in the field so often. UM. And then yeah, I just kind of kind of seeing the home home turf for these guys. And it's always fun to come to Bozeman. It's a kind of the the heart and

soul of of the outdoor industry. So it's gonna catch up with I don't know that people people outside the industry would necessarily know them, but in Bozeman, right here is you. You tell me the companies you know that are right here in Bozeman, Sick Gear on x Mry Ranch, Um, I'm gonna forget a bunch more. But obviously meat Eater, Stone, Glacier, Ums Boots is a town of about It's just not like this. It's not like a massive city. Yeah, and I'm not the best expert obviously on on Bosen, Montana.

If used to roll through here on the way to fire season. I was in college a lot. But um, it's a great place, great place and a lot of good people too. It's fun to we're out at dinner last night and you run into olks from like the Wild Cheap Foundation, and then there's guys rolling in from two Percent for Conservation. It's kind of just this revolving door folks. It's fun here they are. Yeah, yeah, we're actually gonna go over there stephan un and trying some

of their boots. So I've actually never worn SNAE boots. Uh yeah, so we'll check them out. Nice. Well. Bozeman is in neat town. I've never spent much time here on our way to where we hunted in Western Montana for Spring Bear. This year, we pulled in with our mules and our trailer and parked like directly in the alley behind says we were. We were like making blocks around, trying trying to we just wanted to pull in there

just to say. We went to and right behind the store, it's like this downtown area, like a really nice downtown area, like old downtown with these small shops along main street, you know, just buzzing people. Yeah, yeah, just buzzing with people. And so we pull up like right behind their back door, and I was like, they're not gonna tow us. So we're in there for like fifteen minutes with mules. So man, we just put the flashers on, went in there. But that was my first time. It's a neat that's a

neat store. Yeah, I'm excited. Excited. The Bozeman is uh, I mean, I guess for a western town. Maybe this is like standard, but I mean basically in any direction that you look, you're seeing these big snow cap mountains. I mean here it is July. I mean that's pretty spectacular. You guys out west are used to this kind of stuff, but we're pretty lucky that way. And it's, uh, it's a beautiful place. And especially as you get into sort of the inner mountain West and and uh in the

Rocky Mountains. It's just it's rugged country and beautiful and we hold onto our snow. Although this year has been pretty hot, um midsummer, so we'll see it's uh, hopefully we won't get too many fires. Yeah, other's I mean it looked like a lot of snow to me, but any snow is a lot of snow. Rkanzas. But hey, before we jump into so what I want to do on the podcast, let's I want to talk about some of the First Light stuff. But but but before we do that, I wanna I want to learn some stuff

about you. I just met Kevin like this morning. They basically this morning, and the only reason I recognized and because I watched, uh, I watched on Facebook First Light's Uh, you guys recorded a deal where you were cooking elk burgers. Yeah, we're doing this. It's called Fuel the Fundamentals, and it's uh, it's awesome. It's just guys from the office and uh, we're cooking up just just really simple basic recipes, but easy, easy recipes to kind of mess up. So yeah, but

I learned something though. I mean, like really, when I went into a burger cooking video, I mean I really wasn't thinking I'm gonna learn something. But the butter, Yeah, that was that came out of lift for me. But

I get it. Man. Yeah, but crispy, you know, crispy gun and then also right on the burger itself, right, you just kind of crisp up the exterior of that burger, and it just helps with We had, um, my girlfriend and I last summer raised some hogs, so we we mixed in the bacon ends into that into that elkrine

and it just turned out really delicious. But the butter on top, right, and especially when you're putting on like a hot fire, like instantly crisps and it's just like a little I'm not crunchy, but just a little bit of crispiness on the outside. Yeah, I'm definitely gonna everything is better, definitely gonna do that. Yeah, I want to hear about your hogs too. We raised some pigs. Yeah, cool, but it's all. But I want to introduce you. I want to hear about your history and uh so, and

it's cool that you work for first Light. I mean, that's my question. What I just personally wanted to ask you is how the heck did you start working for first Light. That's a lot, but it's kind of a long road, you know. Yeah, but give me kind of a I know you're a hunter. You know you're a good elk hunter. I know that if you were a firefighter, you're you're tough and mountain warn That's good. But now just give me a little history of just your personal

history where you grew up. But yeah, that sounds great. I'm from St. Paul, Minnesota, so born and raised there and lived there until I went to school and to college in Northeastern Iowa. School called Worst College, kind of in the heart of white Tail Country. So I grew up white Tail Honey, and we had a family place up in northern Minnesota right on the headwaters in the

Mississippi or near it Um. I spent a lot of time up there as a kid, and it was always interesting growing up in the city and and and then being outside all the time in our neighborhood and kind of in our in our area, and then going up north. We called it going up north. Every every time, every chance we get it seemed like every weekend, my mom would kind of get everything rolling and my dad would roll home from work and we just head for the hill.

Is there a culture, I know in Michigan there's this culture of everybody wanted to go to the up vacation. Is it kind that everybody but yeah, and everybody other neighbor has a place on the lake, right and they call them cabins and just cabins on the lake. And that's really the heart and soul, I would say in Minnesota summer culture and winter culture. So it's everybody in the in the Midwest, specifically in St. Paul in Minneapolis and and the surrounding area seems to have a place

up north and with a place up north. So there's like a my grace into the North country every every so most of the population would be further sound. Yeah, certainly, you know, Minnesota a long state right to the tail, but the heart of the population all resides sort of

in that central to south central part of the states. Um. Yeah, we spent a lot of time going up north and learned to fish and hunt from my dad and my mom as well, and my grandfather and my brothers and so we we that was always a part of who we were growing up. And we we always ate a lot of fish, ate a lot of medicine, um and Grallison ducks and geese. So it was so grew up we did. Yeah, And it's totally different than any of the deer hunting I've ever done in the West end

in Iowa too. So we were hunting in northern Minnesota with you know, basically I think my first, yeah, the first gun I ever shot a deer with, UM was that thirty thirty lever action. So everything's brushy, thick country. Um. All the deer are really big bodied white tales. But you wouldn't like if you shot at what would they would call in northern Minnesota eight point right four by four and in the west pointer don't get Okay, that's

about this Western stuff, man, that's right. So the truth it's an eight point four if you shoot an eight pointer in in Minnesota. That in northern Minnesota. That is like a dandy in a small basket act. So small small rack deer, but tough northern deer. Yeah, because it's cold hunting up there. But now they do a lot of drives or a little bit terrain features and mostly just corridors. You're in the rut, so you're just hunting

travel corridors for the most part, but thick country. We drive once in a while, usually like on a Sunday afternoon where you're heading out go home. Yeah we do. Yeah, that's right. Um so yeah. And then so we spent a lot of time up there when I was a kid, and we're always enjoying sort of the the way to up north to there's a lot of great state parks and rack areas in Minnesota, and they do a good job of keeping those places wild, which is I'm really

fortunate to have grown up there. Um So, then I went to college in Iowa, played baseball down there, and and uh and whitetail hunting quite a bit really and Iowa public land well, actually the the doozy about Iowa a little bit. There's a lot of public land, not compared to the wester or even parts of the Midwest. But what's interesting about Iowa is there's a real culture around, like agriculture mixed with wild land or watching is a

wildlife habitat. So there's a lot of people, especially when I was coming up through some biology programs, they're trying

to change the way they thought about land use. Rather than just a sort of um reap the land situation with pure agriculture, they're trying to work in sort of this regenerative, regenerative, healthy ecosystem management with um some hunting, and I think what was really cool is I got to be a part of a couple of different farms that were transitioning from strictly just agriculture to wildlife management

as well. And I did kill some decent deer. Yeah, like I think, like a decent deer and I was probably like one, right, And then they talk about these seventy inch deer as you get farther into in the southern than Iowa, but we were just a little bit farther north from where the real like boomer Boomer bucks go down. So that was a great experience and it was cool because everybody, like my baseball coach in college was an avid deer hunter, so he took me out a few times and I sort of relearned how to

how to white tail hunt. That it would be totally different than northern Minnesota certainly forced yeah, exactly. So you're hunting a lot of field edges, a lot of like travel corridors, UM, managing different chunks of ground. You know, I never really knew what a food plot was, UM until I until I went to Iowa. So then in the summertime when I was in college, I was heading out to Oregon to UH to fight wildland fire. So I did that's that was just like a summer job.

It was. Yeah, it's the greatest summer job ever because you're you're on the road a lot, and you're working a lot of hours, can't spend any money. And then then in the summer we just hand to check over to school just like back to it UM. But met a lot of my greatest friends doing that UM. And then what's really interesting is that's how I introduced Alka.

So I stayed a couple of seasons later into September and just started going with these guys and hunting with these guys, and the greatest part about that was I just had this real opportunity to learn from people that lived in this country all the time, and so we're out cutting and and that was a great gift and something I'm really grateful for. So just a phenomenal state. Oregans wonderful. I lived in Eastern Oregon for the better part of ten years on and off, UM and just

really fell in love with that place. And um, yeah, now I'm now I'm over in Idaho. So the short of it is like, yes, I suppose we're gonna get this, but um, I was working after I was done fighting fire, I was managing the marketing and sales for a brewery in eastern Oregon. UM. And while I was doing that, I was guiding al khnts with my good friend James nash Um. He runs outfit called six Ranch Outfitters. So

we worked together for a couple of years. And then I was also doing some film work um for Ben Potter at con Outdoor. So we did some waterfowl projects together, and I was kind of I was like dipping my toe into the outdoor industry because I was really scared about like, Okay, I love this so much. If I go in full on Um, you know, am I gonna ruin it? I'm gonna get burned out on this? Or is it not gonna be fun? And um, So I've always been kind of caution or cautious I should say,

about mixing my passions in my work. So um, but it's been the best decision I've ever made. Man, this has been the greatest. I started like in beginning to May and I's s been a whirlwind, just been awesome. So you you're jump into full time outdoor industry. It's just been just this year. Yeah, just this year, and it's been just phenomenal. So my role, I get to work with so many different cool people and managed a team of the best pro team in the in the country.

I think they're just awesome guys. We've got great guys and outfitters and just a really solid, solid team put together at First Light. And so so you were doing marketing and media and photography and some video and learning from some really good guys like this can Outdoors And so how the heck did that translate into I mean you just applied for a job at First Light or did you know some of the First Light folks? So um. Through James Nash My friend I just mentioned he uh,

him and Cody Rich became pretty good friends. And Cody runs a podcast and a bunch of other businesses. That guy's a genius marketer and a and a really good dude. Um, So Cody and I have become pretty close and and Cody and I have worked together a little bit. And a job popped on First Letting and I've been trying to think about my girlfriend and I were like, we

should We're gonna move, We're gonna do something new. Um, and we're actually in Norway, of isn't in her family and her families from from the country in Norway, and um, I just saw this job pop and I was kind of I was just laying in bed and I was like, I'm gonna apply for this thing. And so I called Cody and he's like, yeah, man, I'll talk to those guys. And we just set up a meeting and was able to kind of secure the deal and it's been just phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah,

So you've been at First Light since May? Yeah, awesome, pretty quick, it's been quick. Well that's great. Um, now I know, so are you you're hunting public land Elk

and I don't know. Yeah, I'll that's where you learned your Yeah, and I will say, like, you know, I've killed a few off with my bow, um and the majority of it's been on public land, but there are a lot of it's been on private too, just because um, I think one of the things that's interesting growing up in the Midwest, you know, we had a skill set that I developed from learning from other folks of how to ask for permission, you know, and not just coming

and taking right. It's like, hey, I see mr, you've got some fence down, Can I rebuild that for you? Can? I can I get you a quarter? Will can rebuild fence? Trip? Yeah? And it. You know, the thing is, it's like those guys work their butts off on their ground, you know, they take a lot of pride in their in their property and things like that. So I wanted to try to figure out a way to uh utilize that skill set of talking with people and doing that to to

gain some access. So I've learned and and sort of um facilitated some relationships through through that. So that's good. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, Well maybe this is a good place to get into some of the first light. Well, I think we can we can say this is that the meat Eatier acquisition of First Light. For those in the industry, it was pretty I mean, I mean it was kind of like, wow, that that's surprising. Um. But then once

it happened, maybe it wasn't surprising. But uh. Steve Ronnella obviously has been the kind of the main First Light media guy. For sure. He's not he's not had any he's not owned first I mean, he's just been somebody that has Warren first Light helped them build their brand, and I mean somebody that the outdoor industry. I mean, in my mind he's at the top of the heap. Yeah, certainly. I just his ability to just to bring people into

the fold is just incredible. You know, we're talking about guys that maybe and women and men that have never picked up a rifle and never spent any time in the woods, and they're being they're attracted to this model that that Steve's built. Um. One of the things I talked about Ben O'Brien a little bit too, was just like how many how much opportunity Steve's brought for so many people in the industry to have a voice to

talk about what they want to talk about um. So it's been awesome to get to know him a little bit as well. So did you start working for first Light It was before the acquisition, Yeah, just pretty quick before actually yeah cool. Yeah. Well, what I want to do is I kind of want to act like nobody knows anything about about Could we categorize first Light gear

It's like technical hunting gear. That would be the most simple description of what it would be, because I think, I mean a lot of my listeners would be probably from the South and Midwest mainly, and I mean historically and still that those hunters are massively dominated by cotton yea, honestly, I mean but it but it's I mean, it's uh And when I say that, I mean just you know, kind of standard hunting gear that we've all used and survived on. It still works for people. That's what I

grew up using here. Yeah I did too. We didn't know any different that week. In my mind when I was growing up, wool was like this itchy stuff that your dad would make you wear sometimes I didn't really want to. So it's so different. But so let's pretend like people don't understand what technical hunting gear is and how it can help them and and and what it's like. UM. But I also kind of want to talk about some of the new first Light stuff that some people would

be but talk to me about, like a basic layering system. Yeah,

and we call them our kids. So the way that UM people should think about first Light is it's a full service apparel company, right, And what the goal of everything we make and everything that we've tried to develop from my understanding in the last ten twelve years, has been UH to try to to try to allow the hunt to stay out on the field longer, UH to sit in that tree just a couple more hours, UM, to be dry, cool, UM warm when you need to be.

That's right. And and so those sort of the ethos of this whole company has been started in the idea that we can make a piece of gear for every situation, for any climate, for any part of the world. UM. And it started with Marino wool. So they're the first company ever. We were the first company ever, I should say, to print a pattern on Marino wool. Historically, Marino will have been used in the ski industry and outdoor industry, but have been solid color because they couldn't figure out

how to Yeah, for some reason. Um, so that that's kind of where it started, right, was we understood that there was this high quality material um that could be close to skin, next to skin, that could serve as sort of your base layer for all activity, whether it was ninety degrees in South Texas or twelve degrees in northern Minnesota. And understand, Um, so when you talk about a kid from first, let me stop right there. In both of those situations, that's what you want is a

marino wool against your skin. Yeah. It keeps it cold when you're when you're in hot temperatures, and keeps it because it's quicking. And and maybe we could even just stop right there and talk about marino wool, which this is this is something that people typically in the southern hunting culture don't understand, but actually, what you want to be wearing when it's eighty five degrees and you're on

an active hunt is marino wool. Yeah, that's exactly because you guys make all sorts of super light stuff that's gonna wick moisture away. Number one, It pulls moisture away from the skin, but it drives quickly number two, So it drives way quicker than cotton. I don't know that it would be interesting to actually hear the science of why or how, but it does. It drives much quicker. So all of us have been wearing a cotton shirt and just drenched it and then it stays wet and

damp the whole day, certainly, And I'm familiar with that humidity. Girl, And I said it was brutally hot. And I actually just got back from a hunt in Texas. Um. We're down there twice this spring, and we're in deep like South Texas, right on the border, and it was hot, like a hundred degrees not even sent human any brutal,

And I'm wearing that. We make a piece called a wick hoodie and it's it's a hooded shirt and you wouldn't really think man of hood and that hot of temperature would be brutal, but it's the hundred fifty weight. It's called our wick. Um and I was reasonably comfortable. And I think the biggest part is, yeah, you're gonna sweat even if you're you know, wearing nothing, You're gonna sweat, right, But the ability for that garment to take your sweat and pull it off your skin hold on it and

then get rid of it. It's pretty incredible, and you know you're drying pretty quickly, set and quick, Yeah, certainly. And then and then the third thing is that it holds much less odor. I mean, certainly, and you don't even realize it until you begin to compare the two fabrics after you've wore them. But I mean, like you take a cotton shirt and you sweat in it all day that night, whether you're back at your tin or back at your house or wherever, you pick up that

shirt the next day, it smells terrible. Yeah, I mean, you're getting a friend of mine. We're just talking about James now. She wrote his motorcycle in a wicked T shirt for a thout, like I think, in the same T shirt ten days, and that dude stinks usually and he didn't smell at all. He's really impressed. So there's examples like that right where if you did that in the cotton shirt, you'd be it would be pretty brutal.

So those two, those three things are there are the fundamental things that you gotta understand if you're gonna wear Marino. That that's why you do it versus cotton. Now, cotton is comfortable. I mean that's probably the primary Cotton is comfortable and cheap and comfortable when it's dry anyway. But the thing about this Marino that to fill in the gaps from somebody like me who grew up in the in the wool that my dad used to make me

wear sometimes was like prickly. This Marino wool is Um, it's basically comparable to cotton, and its softness in the way it feels against the skin softer too, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. And the reason there is so the Marino wool comes from obviously a different sheep, the Marino sheep. Um, it's just a softer wool, and it feels good on your skin. You know, it's not agitating at all. Um. The nice part about Marino as well as in our garments, we mix out with just a little bit of stretch

material so um. You know, classic marino or any sort of wool, over time sort of wears down. But if you implement these these little bit of synthetic and just a little bit of stretch, I mean, that thing holds up for for a good lifetime. So you know, I heard this is interesting to me thinking about the biology of it. But I heard I think I heard Scott

Robinson say that, but the marino sheep. The reason that marino wool on a human is good to wear when it's hot and also good to wear when it's cold is because the temperature where these sheep are can get ultra hot but also ultra cold. So this animal can't molt and shed to this degree of actually what it needs, so it had to it formed this this covering that

would thermal regulate. When it was hot, they it would draw heat away and draw moisture away, but when it was cold and insult So it's kind of cool to think you're taking this natural resource that was designed to do this very thing and spin it into yarn and

making garments. And I think probably the biggest complain, if if we're just being honest about it, is that the durability of just a hundred percent marino will which I've had, and I want to go back to just educating people, because I think if people are educated, there there more they understand. And I heard Scott say this is that, Um, you know, I've had I've had some hund percent marino wool stuff that started to get some holes in it after time and stuff um, but when you spin in

the synthetics, it does make it stronger. But Scott was saying about how you're really dealing with a natural commodity that has differences. I mean, like it's like it's like being a logger and you're cutting down a forest that like had really fast growth and wide tree rings, and the lumber is just a little bit different than like this old slow growth stuff. Maybe it's the same kind

of tree. And so he's saying that there's even variations in wool from different years and different suppliers, and I mean think you'll get it off from the same supplier, but yeah, certainly, And I mean those sheep if you think about it, like the um, the difference in cheap one versus sheep three is probably the bit of a difference because they're different individuals. But that's a pretty cool process too, to be using natural fiber um, you know,

to to create these garments, for sure. Yeah, but it helps me to think that, like you know, we just we just buy clothing and put it on and you don't ever think about like this is actually it's almost like a an art as much as it's a science. And making this, making this gear and Scott was also

talking about how they've gone too. I'm pretty sure he said they've gone to New Zealand and met these farmers and and uh and the commodity it's a it's it's a commodity that can become scarce and so they have to have relationships with these guys so that if if it is scarce, that they'll sell to you guys rather than to sell to someone else anyway, and it was yeah,

and it's an interesting world, you know. I'm just kind of diving in where, like we mentioned, we're getting into sort of our testing cycle for our years down the roads gear. Um, so I've been learning a little bit more about that process and it is interesting because it comes down to relationships and especially on the gear test side, all the way down to the raw materials. You know. That's what's cool about a small company. Um. We have the ability to go and meet those people you know,

on the ground, which well anything else too. Well. So the foundation at first slide is this is Marino. Yeah, so we've yeah, we've expanded past that way past, but that is sort of that is the foundation, and I think that's the most important component any kit, right, Um, you start what's actually touching your skin. Yeah, you start the skin and you work your way out. Arguably, I would say that the most the two most important pieces early in your kid are your boots and your bass layer. Um,

just because it spends the most time on your body. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So what about what about talk to me about just some of the other outerwear and gear. And I mean, like, so you were talking about the kids, So walk me through a kit there which I stopped. I interrupted you, Kevin, I'm just talking nerd and out about Marino will no, I I hear you. So, um, well, we'll probably do like a let's let's just go through

like my everyday ultimate kid right there we go. So, I think the biggest thing to start with in any kit is, like we mentioned that sort of that bass layer, um, and the main component of my base layer it starts with those wick long boxer briefs, um, just because that is something that's next to my game all the time. It's wicking that moisture away from arguably probably one of the hottest regions of your body, your upper legs and

your crotch. UM. So I usually mix that in with a men's wick hoodie which is our our basse layer. I was talking about that a little bit. I've been wearing that down in Texas. UM, that's a great piece. I like the hood feature too, because that hood feature allows you to conceal and also keep some sun off your neck as well. UM and I can wear that all the way through. With the base layer, it's not it's not even uh temperature control as much as the shade yea in some places, which I guess would end

up being temperature control, but in the wrong way. Usually think of a hood is trying to keep you warm, but man, sometimes glass and when it's seventy degrees you just want to get away from the sun. And I'm sure we're talking you know this. This base layer stuff is some is a piece that I would wear, whether it's you know, ninety degrees in Texas from my start all the way to five degrees in Minnesota or whatever. UM, and I would exchange certain pieces obviously with different temperature ranges.

We make some heavier duty have your weight UM long sleep pieces to specifically the fuse and things like that. The Men's fews crew. So I start, you know, with the with the basic long Johns, the Men's Wick Long Boxer brief and then the men's Wick Hoodie. UM. On the pants side, we make this these pants called the corey At Guide Pants, which I think are just bomber. They're they're tough pants. They're they're four way stretch d w R, which means they're a little bit water resistant.

It's kind of my go to. UM. However, we just released a pair of pants called the Guide Light Pants, which UM I wore down in Texas last two weeks ago. UM. It's a really light but durable material and it almost feels like you're not wearing pants at all. UM, But they're tough, so they held up in that kind of Mesquite country. Um. That's a great pair of pants as well. So those are the two that I'll probably cycle through. Um and then um, you know, as we as we

build our way through that stuff. And let me let me say something about the Corean Guy pants. Yeah, the U I don't want to well, okay, I'm gonna take this into the third person here. Let's say that there was a man and his wife had a pair of yoga pants. Yeah, okay, you're with me, Like the stretchy yoga pants that that are that women like, they're so comfortable.

I'm not gonna say that anybody has ever any man has ever put those on, but if they had, they would recognize why women like to wear those so much, because they're very comfortable. Yeah, basically I'll paralong underwear right long, right, right, But but the stretchy material mainly what I'm talking about is a stretchy, lightweight material that fits fairly close to skin. Okay, to me, the core Guide pants are like hunting and I don't want to brand these wrong ways. They're comfortable.

I don't want to say hunting yoga pants because we're gonna all of a sudden, man cards strong enough that I'm I'm I'm okay with saying that. But no, they they're just comfortable. What I'm saying, they're just very comfortable. You don't you feel like you're not wearing a pant? Yeah, And that's why I think those Corey Guide pants. They satisfy so many different terrains elements parts of the country as well. Um, it's a great pair of pants for sure. A lot of guys like the cidity of Marino pants

for for all purposes. Um, and I think those are great pair of pants too. So really the core lineup that we've introduced is the Corey Guide pant and the Marino wool pants. Um, we've got our guidelights, and then the ones that I'm really excited about are called the Sawbucks. So that's basically a core Gate Guide pant, but it's got reinforced almost looks just like an upland pant. Would we call this briar Bridges? Briar Bridges, that would be

that's a great name. Should have called you, should have called you? I mean, that's that's what I I mean, I would say would be a pretty common name in the South for a pant like that. I mean, they've got a briar quote unquote briar resistant front. It's different than the back. I was crawling around and those things in South Texas in this like Mesquite and this cat Claud just nasty stuff and they held up real well. So I'm stoked about those things. And they're actually doing

in Texas. Man, well here doing a lot of things. But I was with Cable Smith and we're hunting nil guy, which is crazy animal. Just be familiar with those things. Yeah, yeah, the little horns, big African animal introduced into South Texas crazy looking animals. Um, they're huge, Like when were you there? I was there and with Cable in May, I believe, And then I was just back in the hill country hunting access here with a couple of dudes. So did y'all kill a naga? Oh we did? Yeah, Cable didn't.

I hear there. It's really good meat, delicious, buddy, actually coolby Colby moorehead the Bear Tech, as he's known, works works for with me the Global Headquarters HQ. He he's from Texas originally, and he wants to go on a now Guy hunt because he he thinks it's a financial decision. He thinks for the amount that you pay to go on one of these hunts, that you get that much. I see they meet and return. Yeah, I would agree.

It's delicious. I've been really fortunate. The last two animals we we got to kill in Texas are both delicious access here and Nil Guy. I mean, how big was the Neil guy you killed? It was big, you know, on the hoof. I don't know. They must be between like five and six hundred pounds. They're a giant. It's like a elk basically a little bit bigger than it alk at times, and this is a good bowl. So they must be upwards of you know, between five and

seven hundred pounds. I'd imagine big beasts. Yeah, I've never seen I've never been around them, but I've familiar with them. Yeah, they're crazy, but that was a good trip for sure. So yeah, I guess on on the kits side, those those pants out, they held up really well. Um those will I'll be available now too. That's new for twenty nineteen. The sawbucks are They've become my new go to pant for just I'm not necessarily incorporated into well let's let

me think about that for a minute. That I wasn't able to use them for some reason when I was in Montana this spring. But I like the toughness of them. You feel like you can work. I mean, sometimes hunting trip is more than just about slipping through stocking an animal. The whole backside of it is actual work. Like you're moving stuff, you're you're getting dirty, you're you know, And so I like that that sawbuck has that rough front that you can just it feels more kind of like

a work pant, even though it's not. That's not a good description of it. Yeah, but I think it trends that way right, Whereas like the Guidelight is an ultra light pant made for spot and stocking hot weather early season. The Sawbuck, you know, you could you could stack wood in those things, you could split wood, you could do some work around your ranch, but you can also go through the briars and your briar bitches. Yeah, that's awesome.

I love that name. Um. And then I guess the next piece when we keep going up top right, um, I usually I love the Klamath hoodie. It's a great piece. It's a good fleece product, just really awesome. It's durable, keeps me warm. Um. And then we just came out with the Men's brook brooks Down sweater, which is ben phenomena. I was wearing that this morning and um, it's a super lightweight, puffy, puffy peace puffy jacket. Um fits in like a water bottle, super tiny, but carry some great warmth.

I love that, um. And then you know, to round it off, I really have been enjoying, like in the springtime, especially before it gets the summer, that Sawtooth hybrid Jacket's pretty awesome, kind of a lightweight. I think you've borrowed that one a little bit too. Um. And then when it gets super cold, when we're talking like and this is one of the things we've sort of delved into, I guess the last few years is is into our our down jacket program. And um, the men's chamberling down

jacket is just absolutely proof. And I'm sure you probably wore that bear hunting this this a little bit. No, I took it up. There wasn't cold enough, you know. I wore it like while I was traveling. I find those jackets to be really comfortable. Oh man, It's it's almost like you're wearing a sleeping bag. And while we were traveling it was super cold going through South Dakota. When South Dakota and and eastern Montana we're driving through, like the snow and stuff like getting out to get

gas and check on the wheeles. I would slip that on because the smooth I like that down stuff with the with the smooth. I don't know what synthetic water shell it is, but just you just put it on easy, take it off easy. Yeah, just like that that Brooks jack And I've got one of those two Brooks or Brooks. I like those because They're just easy to put on off, you know, extremely paccable too, you know, and they throw

them in the bottom of your pack. And the nice part about that Chamberlain, it is bigger, it's very warm, very but I wore it in Canada's where I put it to the tests last year Manitoba on some all day sits when when when noise wasn't an issue, I was rifle muzloader hunting, so it wasn't like I was trying to get within twenty yards because it is you know, it's not made for to be quiet necessary. It's a lasting jacket, right or col Weather that I truly love

that jacket. Yeah. It's got more down to than than the than most of the jackets on the treated down. Yeah. So the way that I understand it, like this one is is truly the down jackets that eight hundred phil power down. So it's it's coated for sure, so if it gets wet, it doesn't come flatten. Yeah. And we're coming off a great video on how that synthetic down works, um and and that should be out pretty soon. But it's it's pretty pretty remarkable how that stuff can take

some water and still perform. Um yeah, it's an incredible piece for sure. Yeah. Yeah, um, you know. And then on the other thing too, is that I was gonna mention really quick because we just have and just an outstanding um lineup of of gloves this year. Um. Specifically, there's these We've got those um down mittens that are really cool. That is like sleeping bags for your hands really and uh, those are great for just what do

they do they call those? Let's yeah, I think I think we're calling them if I pull these up correctly, Um, I think we're calling them the brooks Yeah, the brooks down glassy mit. So they're great. What was it before, the big like three fingers. Yeah, so we have those are the grizzly triggerments and we re up we updated those again this year. Um and those are sweet too. Those are like extreme yeah yeah, there you go. So

they're right here. And see when I was in Ottaho uh in tw it was like we would get on snowmobiles in the morning. It would be like below freezing zero and uh man, I wore those snowmobile because you can actually punch a trigger. Yeah, it was they were perfect. Yeah, that's a good piece. I've been pretty impressed with those. I haven't actually worn them in super cold weather yet I can tell they're going to be bomb proof. The ones I have worn are those shale touch hybrid gloves, which, um,

they gotta reinforce knuckle patch. Those are great for crawling around, like if you're doing some dipping in dodging, there's they're just a bomb proof glove of And then of course just some updated Marino Marino gloves which incorporate sort of the ability to touch your phone and sort of navigate with your phone if you're using on Actually, so those

be really great too. You know what I find most of the time when I'm hunting in Arkansas, with the temperatures we have, even tree stand hunting, I don't like to wear gloves. I would rather keep hands in pockets and feel like I'm just nimble with my hands. That being said, my go to glove most of the time is those lightweight like Marino wool ultra thin. Yeah. What do they call those? They call those the the touch

liner glove. Probably yeah, certainly not something you'd want to you know, they don't they don't take a lot of wear. I mean, you don't want to like load firewood in

your truck with them. But they're just enough, just enough warmth that they take the sting off the cold if your hands are out or if your hands on a boat, like you know, when you're a hunting a lot of times you're holding your boat, one hand has to be out of a pocket and so you're like rotating between hands and it kind of takes this thing off, but it feels like you're not wearing a glove. You're still really have a lot of dexterity and come move around. So I just find I go to those a lot.

I'm with you, and I never was a glove guy myself either, but I've been wearing those, the fingerless Marino gloves, and they're pretty awesome. That just cuts right off above kind of I can say I don't have I don't have those to get you down there, sweet. It's nice to have just some feeling. I seem to like lose feeling in my fingers pretty quickly when it's cold. But these things help because they keep that warmth sort of the core of your hand, and it's it's a great

piece for sure. Yeah, for sure. I think that's about all for this for the for the new gear that I wanted to highlight with you. So what about what about the bibbs that are coming out? Yeah, so I'm let me pull those up because they're they're really awesome. Want to show you a picture. We've been trying on

some of that stuff now. But so you guys are producing some new white tail more White Tailed Trees stand branded stuff, and last year it was some of the catalysts stuff, which the catalyst would have been a soft shell, so it would have been quiet for bow hunters. A lot of the I mean, any white tail guy I was just telling, uh, I was just telling some of the guys earlier, Like I think that's the on the forefront of most white tail tree stand bow hunters minds

is quietness. Yea, well, which is I think sometimes people use the wrong stuff, like because the ultra light like Western hunting stuff like you guys would have that would have these synthetic shells, like it doesn't matter if that's

quiet or not. And to get that ultra light, you've got to have this kind of stuff that's a little bit louder correct And so I think sometimes people have I've seen it, Kevin, where guys have bought like a puffy jacket and wanted to bow hunt with it, you know in Missouri and be like, oh man, that stuff is loud. It's like it's wrong application exactly. Everything's got it. There's a certain tool, right and every kid that makes

it work. And the nice part about the stuff we've been doing in the white Tail world is we've addressed the, like I mentioned before, the core components of how am I going to stay in that tree longer? And how because the buck of the lifetime might walk by one thirty four pm and you you might be freezing. So what we've tried to do is adjust our program to to identify and try to solve those problems. And one of the things that comes from that research is the

ability to stay quiet and stay out there longer. So the system that we're coming out with now that should launch pretty soon. It's gonna probably early August. It's called the Men's Solitude Kit Solitude Yeah. And that Solitude Kit is made with the same fabric, the brushed two layer fabric, which is silent. I mean, you can swish your legs together all you want, it's not gonna make a sound. Um.

What's really cool about this kit? Um, there's a few things when it comes into You have a jacket and a and a in a bib um and it's got this kit link system where you can basically get from It's sort of hard to explain without seeing it, but you can get from the external side of your jacket into that bib front pocket, which is sweet for white tail white tail guys because you can essentially utilize your whole system without having to take a jacket off or

zip a pocket or whatever like that. So the idea would be you could have a jet, well, you could have bib bib overalls underneath you, and there's pockets on the on the chest part of that bib that you're gonna want to have important stuff inside of. And you put this solitude jacket on. I just saw it this morning, and you zip it all the way up. Historically you would have had to zip it all the way down

to get back into the chest bib. But what you guys have is these little zippers over here about mid rib, Like if you're split from the chin to your navel, it would be about yeah, halfway, you have zippers so that you can get into that chest pocket. Yeah, and that's it. We're just talking about like the worst thing ever when you're in the tree is like kind of bending over, you're looking around and something falls out of your pocket because I'm not going to climb down and

get it. There's no way. So yeah, this is a great way to be able to keep everything sort of internal and also manage your heat too. So what happens is with with a lot of this stuff is when you open a pocket, you're releasing heat or letting you know, hot air in or whatever. So this this is going to allow you to sort of manage that. So the zipper fits around your hand really nicely, and it's a good system for sure, And I'm excited. I'm excited to wear this in the tree this year. We're gonna try

this out. And it's a it's a it's a mid level between. So for a couple of years, you guys have had the Sanctuary stuff to white, which I would describe as a very much so cold weather gear, which is awesome. It really is that it's it's thick, heavy stuff, But you're not gonna want to wear that unless it's below thirty degrees. I would say, I think that's right

in there. And yeah, what the Solitude does is mesh year early season, of year, late season, so the heart of the rut in the Midwest anyways, you know, November six then maybe so you can get some pretty variable temperatures. The nice part about the solitude it could be warm, it could be freezing. You can get twenty below um.

So the nice part about the solitude is it allows you to layer underneath and still be silent on the top layer, which I think is probably in the scheme of of trying to identify like what works the best in the tree stand, you know, being quiet, staying warm,

I'm staying out there longer. Three components that are pretty essential because if it doesn't matter if you're uh, you know, toasty warm all the way to like we said, one thirty four pm and you draw back your bow and it goes cook that buck of a lifetime skirts off into the timber. It's like, well, glad I was warm, but I wish I was cold and quiet. So he was trying to address all those problems in one piece, and I think we did a pretty good job. Let

me say something about that. The solitude bibbs, which I saw him and put them on just this morning. I wouldn't expecting it was. So let me just describe so everybody,

we're all on the same page. Historically, a bib would have had zippers from the ankles to the hip basically, and so like if you're putting on it, like the Sanctuary, you know you would so you could have you would have clothes on and your boots on when you put this bib over it, so you open it up as wide as possible so that your boots don't get clogged up and you kind of jump into them. Well, the Solitude has zippers that it's got. It's got a double

zipper and I don't know the term. It's got a it's got a zipper that goes basically from almost like your armpit the highest part of the bib that goes down and the zipper that also comes back up, and so you can really open up the top of that bib to easily get into them, right. I mean, that was That was my favorite part of the That's great to hear because I think that Ben and Greg spent a lot of time working through that and and excuse me,

figuring that out. And I think the biggest the other thing that we think about in the white tail world is maximizing your time. Right, A lot of guys are ripping out after work trying to get to the tree or whatever it may be. Um So trying to ease that you used to make it really compatible throughout. We don't want to have to take your boots off to put that on, because that's gonna be the last thing you want to put on, like you're gonna you know,

you're gonna be wearing. I mean, you just don't want to put that on because it is insulation and you're gonna be moving, like maybe even want to put it on at the tree stand. That's what I do a lot with my insulated bibbs, is I'll carry them to the stand because I might have a little bit of a walk and don't want to break a sweat, and man, if you can not have to do like, you know, a circus act getting into them. So I thought that was really innovative to have the zippers on the top

of that bib. And I love bibbs. You heard me with you. I like bibbs. I appreciate that. That's awesome. Well, yeah, and those those pieces, like I said, will be available probably early August or so. Wait none, but I think

that's gonna gonna do good. And all the all the white tail pieces have the holes in the top upper back for for safety straps to that's right through yep, and that that's gonna be sort of a mainstay and all the white tail stuff going forward just for that safety element because we don't want anybody falling out of a tree. So yeah, and it works great for for

all harness types. So yeah, you know, again, somebody who's never heard anything about first light or or to me, what when you put it on and you don't understand this until you put it on, is the is the shooters cut, which is like a typical jacket. And and when I was growing up, my dad was always putting me in his old stuff. None of it ever fit, you know, and it was always real bulky and I

could hardly shoot my bow out of it. So that would be like the worst case scenarios that you got this super bulky stuff that when you get the bow drawn, there's fabric sticking out in between the line of where the bow is gonna drop, you know. So with all of these garments, first, like just the design of it, and I think this gets into like a high end, custom designed clothing like has a shooters cut, which means

and I don't know the mechanics of it. I mean, there's gotta be mechanics, like there's more fabric here and less fabric here, But I don't know what it is. But I just know that it works. Like you have no restriction when you when you make the move to either draw a bow or shoulder or rifle. No, no restriction. You don't feel it, you know, and it's and when you draw back, everything is just in line with your body and not sticking out on on clothing that fits you.

I mean, obviously had something that didn't fit, you wouldn't do that. But that when I hand a jacket to a buddy mine that's never put it on, put on something for like that, I'm like, you're gonna notice the shooters cut. And then every time they go, wow, it doesn't. There's no there's no drag, there's no resistance when I and I'm I'm doing my hand like I'm shooting a boat.

Yeah yeah, but yeah, I agree. And I think that the coolest part is, you know, the first and foremost first, I was founded by guys that hunt and I think that's the coolest part of it is, you know, they're actively involved in the development of each piece and that that's a perfect example, is a slenderness. That's even I think that's a word. But the sleeve sort of tapers so you don't have that bulk, you don't have that

like um, sort of sinching up of material. Um. And uh. Yeah, they've they've done a great job of addressing problems that you know, have been found so to speak, um while hunting, right, trying to correct problems that they've experienced. That goes from western elk hunting to bear hunting in the BC to

to um deer hunting in South Texas. Right, they're addressing all these issues through first and foremost the sort of the foundation of the company, and then all the people we work with two to gear test this stuff through and through. H Yeah, exactly. Well I think I'm I think I'm really gonna like the solitude stuff. I mean, this is a Barony Magazine podcast, but everybody knows white tail hunt and and most bear hunters are going to be white tail hunting, tree stand white tail hunting and

U and so this is good stuff. You know, I think probably the biggest, the hardest thing maybe a barrier to entry if you could say from getting some of this stuff is just the cost of it and then not knowing the fit of it. And I hope that maybe even people listening to stuff like this, maybe it'll give them a little more insight, a little more confidence

when they go and buy. What I usually tell people is a and I've had people directly directly asked me to say, Clay, if you were going to spend X number of dollars on First like here, what would you buy. My first answer is always bass layer stuff. Get that.

Start start with start with the marino wool bass layers, start using that, utilizing that, and then from there you can go any direction of your needs from all the way from rain gear, I mean, we hadn't talked about stuff, you know, like the full scale like really breathable, good rain gear, all the way to the sanctuary, super thick, super cool weather true stand white to hunting stuff. But anyway, I just say, that's like the that's like the the gateway,

the gateway piece. Certainly. Yeah, And I think the coolest part about well, one of the coolest parts about First Letter is our customer service team is die hard hunters. I mean, those guys are as soon as five oh one hits, they are out the door and in the hills testing our gear. They know our gear tip to tail. They can offer you the sort of the best rendition, so to speak of of real life anecdotal um information

about how a piece performs for your specific area. And so those guys are really helpful and and figuring out, you know, what is the first piece I should get, what's the fourth piece I should get. I'm going on this hunt in the Northwest Territories. What what rain jackets should I take? Um? So those guys are around all

the time. I'm ready to answer your questions, and I think, um, that's one of the coolest components of first Light as those guys are just dialed really and they're able to help those anybody out really Okay, Now, let's let's pretend like nobody at first Lights listening to this podcast, which maybe they won't. They probably I don't know, maybe they will,

maybe they will, maybe they won't. If you could give a hot tip to somebody wanting to get in on some first light gear, like on some historic sales, because I've noticed some trends with first light of wind stuff goes on sale. What would you say, Oh, man, that's a good question. I think you should always peek around, like we just did a pretty big flash sale. Um, and that's what you're asking, like when it's a hot tip, man, I think just keep keep watching these flash sales where

just randomly you'll put a percentage off. Yeah. Yeah, And I think the best thing to do is just keep keep track on social. You know, we're always like we do all these incredible giveaways to partnering with go Wild. Right now we're giving away a hunt with cables f and Jordan Bud, which is crazy. I mean that's just a really easy way to engage with First Light for sure. Um. So yeah, I follow al on on social for those giveaways, and then um just fall along the on the individual

folks too. You know, a bunch of people on Instagram and they'll they'll be breaking that down. You know. Then in what I'm alluding to it, I'm I'm joking. So you guys want people to know this stuff. I'm not. It's not like a secret, But don't you usually have like the new stuff is usually coming out in June, July, August.

I mean like that's like when the like the new lines come out, so you have some of the older stuff and often goes on sale, Yeah for sure, and that's usually happening, like all the new stuffs out by August typically August. Yeah, so you've seen we've we just did our big flash sale. But it'll it'll come. You call it then, you call it something. It's just a

summer flash sale, you know. Okay, maybe that's what I'm telling We did a bunch of like we have a bunch of new logo wear coming out and wearing on their right. Now, that's a good bunch of hats. Thanks um and uh yeah, so they'll be And like I said, I think the best way to get in on that info is like we'll we'll sort of sneak peek that stuff on on Instagram for sure. And and again going back to the idea that you just can't get away

from it. I mean, the stuff's not cheap. You can go buy stuff at Hunting Gear at other places for cheaper. That's just that's just like with anything though, everything we do, there's always like higher and stuff that's better materials, it's more, it's better designed, that's gonna last longer. So it's like one of those things. But I find, you know, sometimes it's hard for people to to bite the bullet and

try something. Um but if they could get in, you know, maybe may they get it and they say, yeah, I like that piece for sure. And I think I think one of the coolest parts too, is we we try really hard as a company to you know, be in the UH. We're obviously like making very expensive, high high apparel or high level apparel, um but it's still at a at a price point that I would say is a little less than the competitors out there. For sure,

try to we try to in the arena. Anything I'll say too is like for folks that are on the guiding outfitters side, first responders, we offer great discounts for people for their service and for their their line of work. Um So I feel free to to hit us up if you're in if you're in those categories, and we want to try to respect those folks and and make their jobs easier for sure. So that's good stuff. That's good stuff, um Man. I think we've we've we are

almost two our hour man. We've build nerd and out on the gear stuff. You know, Kevin, I I would historically have called myself such a minimalist that I didn't I don't like gear, if I could say it that way, like like gear to me is like a necessary evil, if I could put it that way, Because I do meet guys that just nerd out of and but I'm becoming more But I find that maybe like at some subconscious level, I identify with that. But I'm a serious hunter when I get into these places, I want gear.

So I find that I'm having to be more conscious because of of of why I do what I do, if I could say it that way, And I'm finding that I'm more of a gear guy than I thought. Yeah, there you go. I appreciate that. And I think that there's all types of gear guys, right. You got like trinky guys that have every little thing from you know, super cool pocket knives all the way to like the latest head lamp. And there's people that get by with killing elk and flannels and jeans every year in Oregon.

You know, there's a whole spectrum, right. But I think that for the amount of days guys like you spend in the field, and and for guys that really want to stay in that tree stand longer or whatever it may be. Uh, first lights of the way to go for sure. Well it's it's when you find that guy that really is just a minimalist and wanting to use

the gear that helps him get the job done. And then but you that guy can really tell a pretty good story a lot of times, because I mean, I mean give you insight, because this is what I've learned. So I think sometimes people they enjoy gear so much that it becomes a big part of the of their hunting experience because they can't they're not in the field every day, but they're thinking about gear like I see people and uh, and and maybe I'm that way sometimes too.

But but I'm becoming a lot more conscious about my gear because the older I get, the more I do have stronger opinions. The more I realized that, you know, there are kind of these nuances inside of gear that can really make a They can't make a difference inside of your success. Ultimately, that's what we're after is to be in the field and be successful. So if you can go further and stay longer, then uh, that's a good thing. It is a good thing. Yeah. Well, hey,

closing closing thoughts anything you wanna. Yeah, it's exciting to be on here. Man, I'm excited what we have to do. Uh. And you know I've never killed a bear, right, We talked about this and you've killed an Oh no, So I think what we probably trade hunts. I'll take you all kind of you take me bear hunt. Let's do it deal, do it spring, spring, and then fall. It's a good idea. I like it. It's a good trade. That'd be a sweet trade. I'll take it. Appreciate I

appreciate you having me on. Yeah, right on. Else we we always said the same thing at the end of the podcast. Keep the wild places wild because that's where the bears live. That's awesome, all right,