First Lite & Captured Creative

You won't be persecuted for, you know, posting meat or whatever like they do on You'll get some haters every once in a while on Instagram and uh Facebook, but I think it's a really good place for you to not only share what you do, but join a community and that allows you to meet other people, and who

knows what happens when you meet other people. A specific example of is I posted a comment or something about shed hunting, and I met a guy who shed hunts near me, and I think we're gonna team up and go on a shed hunt together this this fall, so or this excuse me this spring. So, if you haven't had the opportunity. Go to the Google Play Store download the Go Wild app, and if you want some more information, you can also go to their website Time to Go

Wild dot com. Get outside, It's time to Go Wild. My name is Clay Nucleman. I'm the host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into the world of hunting the icon of North American wilderness. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation. It will also bring you into some of the wildest country on the planet chasing.

Thanks are listening to the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. On this episode, I have with me at the global headquarters Ford van Fausen of First Light forwards the conservation director of First Light, and also with him is Jordan Riley of Captured Creative. These guys were in Arkansas for about a week and in this conversation we talked a little

bit about what we were doing. We tell some couple of epic squirrel stories that aren't your classic dedicated squirrel hunt type stories, but we hear most importantly about what these guys do. So Ford van Fausen has has been with First Light for several years, but he took Ryan Callahan's spot who was the former conservation director of First Light. Ryan's now with Meat Eater, so Ford took his spot, and Jordan's is a is a videographer photographer is part

owner of this media company, Captured Creative Man. They have some great insight into their both of their fields and it's just a fun pie cast and you're gonna enjoy it. I want to make mention of something that I'm doing with with several other groups and podcasts, but we're doing a hashtag called trash trophies. Okay, hashtag trash trophies. And what we're trying to get people to do is when they're out on public land, take a Walmart bag or some type of little grocery bag with you and pick

up the trash that you see. We think is hunters one of the pretty pretty functional impact that we could have on public lands. It's just picking up trash. I know in places that I hunt, trash is a problem. And parking areas, along trails and different places we're gonna see trash. And so take a picture of your trash trophy and hashtag it on Instagram hashtag trash trophies. Additionally, I want to direct you guys to the bare dash hunting dot com store. We just released a new shirt.

It's our mule Riding Bear Hunter shirt and maybe one of the most epic shirts ever created. If you're gonna want to pick one up at our at our web store and bear dash hunting dot com. And it's uh, it's it's classy. It's gonna keep you classy. It's gonna keep you uh, you know, kind of in the in the trend. Check it out. All right, we're gonna jump right into it. You're gonna enjoy this podcast. So we are at the Bear Honey Magazine global headquarters here in

West Fork, Arkansas, World HQ, World HQ. It's February, and I have the privilege of having in my office tonight forward Van Fassen first Light. And I'll go ahead and tell the other name before we get into these two guys. The other the other gentleman sit in front me, is Jordan's right captured creative. For everybody who who would follow much of what I do, would would know first Light

from well, from maybe many different sources. But Ford, why don't you, uh, why don't you tell us, I don't know, give us an introduction to tell us you are to tell us what you do for First Light. I'm Ford N. Fawston. I am First Lates Conservation and Content Manager. Okay, yeah, okay, new title out thinking it's always so Ryan Callahan went to meet Eater. Ryan Callahan was the former conservation director first he was. He was, so I've assumed some of

his conservation are You're gonna grow a mustache? No, no, because I'm still Actually I'm hoping here in the next couple of years of Pubert he's gonna come through for me. But until then not, yeah, loustache less, not yet. Okay, Well, we're gonna get into more detail, and what we're gonna talk about is we're gonna I want to hear something about really what you do forward and uh for First Light and talk a little bit about that. But quickly

I'll introduce Jordan's Riley have Captured Creative. So Jordan's introduce yourself. Oh you didn't tell us where you're from. Ford, I am from Trapped, Maryland. I live in Catchum, Idaho at first Lights Global International World. Yeah. Yeah, okay, so Jordan's yeah, tell us who you are? Yeah, well, Jordan Riley, I am one of the owners of Captured creative Taylor Coleman is back in Minnesota right now. But yeah, Minnesota based

UM Production Media production company. We shoot photos and video for a bunch of cool brands and get to hang out with a lot of cool people along the way. Yeah. So these guys are here in Arkansas there, they've been here for four days and we've been doing some I've been doing some hunting down here. We uh we squirrel hunted with mules on Wednesday with Trey Autry, Michael and Ere. And then on on Thursday we did a little bit of deer hunting, is that right? And we also went

raccoon hunting. And today we did a little scenic tour of the Ozarks, got out in some of the rough country of the Ozarks and I saw some pretty cool country. And uh So it's been a absolute blast having you guys down here. It's been fun. A lot of first these last couple of days. What okay, what what would have your first? What would your first have been? Now? Ford is from the shallow South in Maryland, as we have defined, which which is a total shock to me.

I did not realize it. But it's very true what he says. And Ford feels like a Southerner to me. Sometimes he sounds like a Southerner too. Yeah, he doesn't really know what his accent is. Yeah, he kind of goes all over the all over the board. But no, So what were your first Jordan's I think just about every day there or something. First. I've never been on a dedicated squirrel hunt before hunt a dedicated squirrel hund

as opposed to squirrel hunt. Had with Mr Ben Fosson earlier and this year he missed a squirrel and dropped his I shouldn't say, I shouldn't go this far? Should we go there? How did this come up again? The same? This came up quick too. Yeah, years would have been an incidental squirrel hunt. Certainly that ended in a bizarre way, Yes, certainly. Yeah, so just quickly go ahead and tell us what happened. The long and the short of it was, we were hunting the rut in Wisconsin, the squirrel rut or the

dear rut. That's a good question. We were here the white tail deer. Okay, the white tail deer rut. It was what I'm told is the absolute peak of the Y T L deer rut in in Wisconsin. It was, in fact, what we were there to do was not at the rut, however. Uh At around ten thirty a fox squirrel, which I have personal interest in as a species for reasons we don't have to go into, appeared at ten yards very close. I had to crater arrows. I chose to remove a broad headed arrow and knock

at critter. Arrow I shot at the squirrel, did not kill the squirrel, took about an inch of hair off the squirrel's back, and figured I would go get my arrow because it was ten thirty. I've been sitting a tree for a while and I was gonna just pop down to where the arrow was sitting in the dirt, only ten yards from the tree. I grabbed my arrow ah with my bow still hanging on the tree, arm

back in the tree, proceeded to climb. I'm the tree and felt something kind of on my back as I was getting seated back in the stand and turned to watch my bow drop out of the tree into the mud below. Or what have you? Messed up the boat pretty good? Bent up the boat pretty good. Jordan was filming this whole thing and at this point just laughing mercilessly at me. So this would be an incidental squirrel hunt.

That was the point we were driving home. That was the definition of a of an incidental So what you guys did this week was a was a purposeful squirrel dedicated as you said, Geordie. Now if you've you've done dedicated squrawn and not anything like that one though, I mean, well you're about to lead into mules and dogs and all kinds of extra accouterments, which made it all the more fun. Definitely. Yeah. Well, and I think the original question was the first that that we had that you

had as somebody from Minnesota. So squirrel hunt, dedicated squirrel hunt. Yeah, there's a blast. It's just something I think. I don't know. Sometimes people that hunt can kind of get like singular minded on one species, and for me growing up, that was white tails. So the words were quote unquote for white tails. Yeah, you didn't really want to do anything to that precious little chunk of land that you had. But man, after after going on that squawl hunt, I

kind of kind of kicking myself. I've been missing out for a little bit, I think because I was when you said that earlier this week. I've never really thought

of it that way. You know that I mean, perhaps people wouldn't want to, you lose their hunting ground for anything other than white And certainly I know there's properties like that that are managed in that way, no doubt, but that that would like block out like an entire hunting culture of a region from like really being into small game hunting because they're so dedicated to deer hunting and all the all the studies, well, there are particular,

like scientific based research based studies that show that raccoon hunting at night does not affect daytime deer activity because like on these big some of these big leases where there's multiple types of people using the same piece of property. I think there's been a lot of historical controversy that like coon hunters would come in run their dogs at night during deer season, and all the deer hunters would blame them for not killing deer the next day, and

so somebody settled that. I don't know who it was, but I've heard that research project touted many many times. Perhaps it's biased, but you know, you gotta sasources on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, if you google it, if you google it, it's yeah, it may have been fake news, but um I have so they said, they said that it didn't affect daytime deer movement, nveniently, says the raccoon Hunter. And this project was funded by the Raccoon Mountain Raccoon Foundation. But so

that is neither here nor there. So, but the squirrel, the dedicated squirrel hunt was the first, and we also went on a dedicated raccoon not right, Yeah, the first time there too. That's fine, I guess I honestly, I really just didn't know what to expect going into that one, and it was I mean, there's a social aspect there that I think the closest thing I can relate it to is maybe like a pheasant hunt back home, you know,

where you can talk. Only even in a pheasant hunt, you're always kind of on edge because a bird could jump up and you have to shoot it right over With this, yeah, I mean, you let those dogs go and we just sat cut the lights and talked. It's more like a relaxing type of a you know. That's that's the whole essence really of a of a coon hunt, especially and for me is that it's, uh, it is

highly social. I think what part of what I'm doing inside of my hunting, especially with my kids is I'm looking for a platform to build relationship, you know, I mean, that's really the essence of it. But what makes a coon hunt different than anything else as you do it in the dark in the daytime. It's even if if if there was a group of us standing out in the middle of that field during the daytime or standing by a creek, my kids would have been like off

doing something. But like the darkness like forces you to huddle together and you're just sitting there with your lights off, listening for the dogs talking. That's I think that's the for me. It's such a contrast to the solo, big game hunting that which we all love, well, we all we all do love that, but it's uh, but it's but it's different. Yeah, it was. It's definitely a from field. You know. The only thing though that I thought it

was at all similar to was frog gigging. Yeah, that was the only yea in terms of waiting for you know, waiting for the sun to go down and then wandering around in the dark explicitly totally I mean, still obviously totally different, its being different animals, but yeah, yeah, but that night element was a little familiar that way. Yeah, yeah, it is. So the conut was a lot of fun and we uh, we didn't have a real long hunt. We just went out for a couple of hours, but

we did. We did get a coon. A lot of fun. Treat two canes right or one one hole? Well we yeah, we put one in the rocks. Yeah, put one in the rocks and then and then tread one. So it was a lot of fun. Um, So that's what that's what we did this week. I want to talk about you guys though, and uh, perhaps who do we need to talk to first? I think maybe we'll talk to Jordan's first, just because we were filming, we were or he Captured Creative. If you guys haven't heard of Captured Creative,

go on Instagram search it out. Uh, you guys are on Facebook two yeah, and then you can also just check out Jordan Riley's Facebook, Taylor Coleman's Facebook in Instagram. And these guys do a ton of work for First Light. They do a lot of a lot of the photography, a lot of the product based photography. And you gotta you ought to tell Ford how you guys hired these guys. Yeah, so Jordan and Taylor were some of our first quote unquote pro staffers. And these are young guys Jordan's so

he was just a pup. He was just a pup. And this was four years ago. Eything in mind that Ford is only one year older than I am. Ords a young I'm two years older. I'll have you know older. Um. So, anyhow, we were two thousand fourteen. I was putting together first light sort of first quote unquote pro staff and there's some guys and I'm assuming that you sent some pictures that were good and like, yeah, yeah, these guys should be part of the part of the pro staff for sure.

And called Jordan to sort of interview him. And it was the day before your wedding. Yeah, I was walking through the doors of the church to my wedding rehearsal, a bunch of people staring at me while I took some random call from catchum Idaho yep, yep. So anyhow, oh yeah, yeah, going to interview and make sure he wasn't crazy. So anyhow, Jordan and Taylor at some point soon after sent us a little hype reel then, Is

that how you describe it? We just went out and filmed like a Minnesota hype real sixty or less real of just I think we had some drone footage, some some other camera type of work in there. Yeah, sent it to him and heard back pretty shortly after. I think. Yeah, my my boss, uh Ross Conforman saw that, and at least in my head, the story goes that he said, some of the long lines, they're gonna make product videos

for us. So we called them up and I don't know, maybe six months later you were filming uh, product product videos for the release of I think what was then the ten line. Yep, that's a classic story that everybody that's into content creation and media would hope would happen because they would send their sizzle reel to a major national company and that company would hire them to do work for them. I believe, my friend, you have hit

the jackpot. I agree with that. Well, but what they saw inside of you guys, what they saw inside of your work was a level of excellence that is just notable, you know, and I think any anybody that sees your stuff is going to recognize that, and uh and that's valuable. Yeah, well, thank you. I mean, we're definitely not the only ones

doing it like that. I mean, we try to we try to kind of make our own thing and make it uniquely us and just kind of keep our heads down and work hard, and it's it's it's paid off up to this point. We hope we can hope we can keep things up and kind of keep pushing it, pushing a little bit farther. Yeah, well maybe one day they'll actually pay you. I know you've been doing it for three this whole time. So right, that's how the pro staff works, right yet, know we kint them like

a ten percent deal on gear. Uh yeah, So so Capture Creative. So I want to talk about the film in City Limits because both of you guys worked on that. So First Light last Fall was it October that that was released October? Okay, so First Lights doing they they do product videos, Like if you go to the first Like YouTube channel, you would see product videos. But you would also see in the last two years, um, two

sets of videos. One about tag a guy there that works at the First Light office who was not a hunter but drew this unbelievable sheep tag in Alaska, and so there's a series of videos on that. But you would also see a film called n City Limits that now was Taylor working with you on that or was it just you and Ford? Taylor Coleman was He was one of the photographers with on that one too. Okay,

so you and Taylor and Ford. We're with Taylor Chamberlain in Washington, d C. Near Washington, d C. So tell me about the film. So Taylor was another original pro. He was another O G pro staffer. I think he was part of the first round of pro staffs. And he is a feller that hunts O G O G proces. He was one of the first pro staff Does that mean original gangster? Uh? Some might, some mighty didn't. Some might say it does. Yeah. Um, he was one of

our first pro stafvers I think um. And he caught my eye immediately because he said something along the lines of, I, you know, I hunt a hundred and fifty days a year in the suburbs of Washington, d C. I'll kill between forty and a hundred deer a year, and I hunt out a swing set sometimes. You know. It was

something that brief. And so he wrote a couple of blog posts for us through the years, and eventually, as first I sort of moved into those you know, what we call full content pieces or full puller length, really content pieces. Uh. Taylor was sort of the first story that came to mind for me just because it was

such or it felt like such a unique story. Uh, this guy who was was really doing more than his part to manage the suburban deer heard there in northern Virginia and uh, and also just couldn't get enough of doing so he just loves it. So had you met him before only on the phone? I have only ever you'd only talked to him on the phone when you went, Ye, when we flew over there, I think I got there a day before Taylor and Jordan's um And yeah, we had only talked on the on the phone. We met

at Reagan Airport. Yeah. So how long were you guys there when you were shooting that film? I think we filmed four six or seven days how and so you were you were hunting in the tree with him, Yeah, we were filming deer hunts. Yeah, we had both Taylor

Coleman and I were. You know, one of us would be kind of in the tree with Taylor Chamberlain and the other one would be back off some ways to get a little bit better, because I mean we were hunting and sometimes as small as half acre pieces of property right on the edge of lawns basically, so just to kind of really set the scene of yeah, there's houses right there, and we're running here to kind of

get that. And he's one of those tree saddle hit piece he is, and he's he's converting us one by one. I know, I'm already converted. Now. They are awesome. They are awesome. Um here's my question. How does he so what's the how can he kill a hundred deer a year legally? Yeah? So very liberal seasons to start, you know, in just Virginia's rags in the northern I think it's five counties, one of which Oblie obviously he's in. I don't even remember the details. I think they're regular boat seasons.

Probably early September too, I think it was later than I or even respected maybe April April March, yeah, for real, and that's their regular season. And then they get um, I don't remember the terminology. It's a it's a form of depredation tag essentially, it's it's essentially a suburban depredation tag, an azalea bandit, you know, predation tag or depredation tag.

And uh so Anyhow, the net some of that as they can kill Antler List dear from I think whatever it is April until September again, um, And so there's essentially no limit on the Yeller List Dear Um. I don't remember whether the summer kill permits cover Antler Dear or not. Um. But then during the regular Dear season itself, I believe they actually do just have three buck tags killing bucks up there. Yeah, He's definitely had his fair share. I mean, he he's on some big ones in there

for sure. So even though he's got these unlimited dough tags, basically he could still shoot a buck at any time. Yeah, and I think during the rot he I mean, he's he's hunting for a buck in November. See, they have urban deer hunts in like seven cities in Arkansas or something. You've got to kill a certain amount of doze before you can even kill a buck. Yeah about arna buck, Yeah definitely. Well, that that was a that was a super neat film. What can you in the production of that?

What were the what were the major challenges Jordan's I mean, I mean was that well, let me back up, was that the first feature length film that you had done with First Light. Yep, yeah, that was the that was the very first one. So what other films had you done before that? Just some small our stuff, not really too much anything for brands, So that was kind of our I mean breakouts maybe not the right word, but that was the first. That was the first time kind

of trusted us for for something of that level. Well, it was it was really, it was great. It was great. Yeah, it was a lot. There was a lot of fun, of fun to put together that one. Definitely Tailor is a super fun guy to hang out with, and it was really an interesting world to see. That's you know, so different then a lot of our experiences, especially I think in the West or you know, in sort of

traditional white tail Great Lake States like Jordan's from. But the funny thing about sort of the reception to that piece that we were discussing earlier at some point in the last couple of days, is how many people identified with it. You know, how many people we're hunting in

in semi suburban areas or near houses. And when I thought it through, I mean even I I've shot white tails within a hundred yards of folks houses and never really thought about it because it was in a kind of quote unquote rural area, right, But um, yeah, it's it's it's I think, and it's an increasingly common experience really as obviously cities sprawl out and at the same time as as white tail populations increase or or at

least they're still present in those suburban areas well. My biggest Arkansas deer came from very close to my house and uh, and it changed the way that I looked at whitetail hunting because I mean I liked to go to wild places quote unquote to hunt deer and ended up killing the biggest deer that I've ever killed in Arkansas, will probably be the biggest deer I ever killed in Arkansas was in a suburban area and uh in two thousand seven, and that's about the time it started to

become a thing. You know, this suburban deer hunting was back during that time. But a lot opportunity And that's the that's the beauty of white tail honey is there's just opportunity so many places. But what you said this week forward in our talk, we had extensive dialogue about bears and bara biology, and um, you said that we're finding out that that bears are kind of the same way,

especially in the Northeast. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we're definitely we I think we had had a had a sort of a myth in our head that was really I think just informed by where we chased bear to. Ultimately, you know, as as sort of colonial pre Americans, um, Europeans whatever, you know, sort of came and settled North America, they pushed a lot of these games, so he's white tailed deer to some degree, to this sort of another corners of the country, and then I think we sort of

assumed that that's where they just live. But you know, as as we sort of were more you know, as as habitat was restored or people were just more open to having bears around, we figured out that they can live in most of New Jersey. Yeah, They're just they're far more adaptable species than we give them credit for. I think ecologically, it's just a question of of how humans are are willing to deal with them that really determines how many bears can live in a given place.

The cultural tolerance of it, that's the word for it. Yeah. Yeah, Well, speaking of cultural tolerance, we have had pretty significant intolerance at the global headquarters this week of squirrels. Yes, yes, we have. I feel like it's only fitting that we expound on a squirrel incident that happened here at the Global Headquarters this week. We we don't have to take a lot of time on this, even though it's probably the most exciting thing that happened the entire week, and

we did a lot of exciting things this week. It was pretty exciting. Yeah, so we're we're here in the office Ford Seeson. Squirrel outside the Global Headquarters and I just happened to have a four tien. It's squirrel season here. Just happened to have a four tien with shells handy and that I didn't I wasn't try wanting to hunt. Well, the squirrel has been getting in my in my in my ceiling. They've been coming in through a hole in the outside, getting in the ceiling. So I have been

taking care of squirrels. And we see the squirrel. I run outside and shoot the shoot at the squirrel as it is running away. And I only had one shell in the four ten And uh, these guys are watching this from the outside and they think I've hit the squirrel because they see the squirrel coming out of the tree. Is that right? Yeah, we were watching from inside the office. The squirrel flees off the office because I think it

was initially coming towards the office. Well, it was on the roof of the office, and I swung around to the northwest corner in the squirrel and I just meet eye to eye and I'm thinking should I shoot him on the roof and I decided not to, even though I wish I had now and he goes over the other side of the office. I sprint around to the southwest corner of the office shoot at a running away squirrel about twenty yards with a four ten with number

six is in it. Miss. It's unclear what happened, but the squirrel runs down the trunk of the tree and sort of disappears out of sight, and Jordan and I are yelling from the inside of the office. He's on the ground. He's on the ground. He's on the ground. And I run out to tell you he's on the ground. Well, and so so you two, I mean, you indicate to me that it's dead on the ground, and so I said, I'm like, I hit it, and you were like, yeah, we saw it come out of the tree. I think

it's training. We're looking for it. We can't find it. So my pup is running around my my plot puppy. We call the plot puppy, over thinking that the pup might be able to find it, which initiates level one chaos, Level one chaos. And I, for whatever reason, it handed you the gun, and uh and just, I don't know where the squirrel came from. It's fairly open. It's like he disappeared into the earth and then emerged from the earth running up a hickory tree, like no more than

eight yards in front of Ford. Eight too, I'm gonna say eight to eleven yards in front of Ford. And the squirrel runs to our side of the tree. And just it's like, I mean, just right there at probably twelve feet obvious. So Ford's got the gun. There's one shell left in the gun. He pulls up, squeezes yanks. Really it was a man. I wasn't gonna say it wasn't. I wasn't shot. I wasn't gonna throw a fellow squirrel hunter of the bus. But you yanked. This is the

second time we've talked about squirrels and embarrassment. There's a real well, so he squeezes the trigger the guns on safety. You weren't familiar with the guns, so I can't fault you for that. You weren't familiar with Well, you squeeze and jerk and then you click the safety off. Boom, And I don't know how did it happened? But you missed the squirrel, you know, once again. But yeah, I'm

missing squirrel. Listen, though the squirrel doesn't run up the tree, which it totally could have run up the tree and just been gone. The squirrel comes down the tree again and runs to the shed near the Global Headquarters, just south of the Global Headquarters. And and now we've run out of shells, and so I say watch the squirrel forward watches where it goes. I run in get shells, and Jordan is still not qued in that like world class adventure and excitement has taken place. He's just kind

of watching a little bit. We go out. Squirrel is in the rafters. Ford takes a piece of bamboo, pokes the squirrel. Squirrel runs to another section and then I'm up close to the squirrel poking at it. It's staying in the rafters and we couldn't figure it out. Next thing I know. The squirrel is like spread eagle flying through the air, and it skips off the top of Ford's head such that it knocks his hat back. It didn't knock it off, but I just remember seeing his

hat bill move about two inches. There was impact. There was a light impact that this squirrel is flying at my face, skips off my hat. I think, I'm not sure. I think it touched off my shoulders on the way to the ground. But then, in a bizarre move, the squirrel, after touching Ford's head, hits the ground and goes back to the shed into a large barre earl that's in the Yeah, and I'll speed the story up. We can't find the squirrel in the barrel. There's a bunch of

a bunch of bunch of poles, sticks, shovels, whatever. Yeah, And so I decided it's time to bring out the real We need to find the squirrel. We weren't sure it was in the barrel. So I go get Fern, my adult good plot raccoon hound, and she's not a squirrel dog. But I knew that if she saw us getting excited about something that she would, like, you know, get after it. So I turned Fern loose and stage

three chaos. Fern is just going nuts and she realizes I'm trying to sicker on something, and she smells that squirrel and she's crawling over equipment and trying to get in that barrel and barking and running. And finally we dig out, dig around, find a squirrel in the bottom

of the barrel. The squirrel jumps out of the barrel and runs, I'm not gonna sit, ran up my arm, but it touched my arm as it jumped onto the tree behind me, runs a ofss the top of the office, around to the northwest corner where we started, and runs into the ceiling of the Global headquarters. And that's the show, you know, it was. It was a bizarre turn of events that ruined it really ruined the week. But uh are bawling. The squirrel has touched both of us. At

this point, the squirrel seems to be wounded. There was blood, but didn't And and the most the thing that stood out to me the most is that as a hunter, there comes a point in any hunt where you it's like the animal, It's like you know that this is gonna happen. When the squirrels in the barrel, I had the four ten, We had Fern and Opie baying in the barrel to you with the with a bamboo stick.

I mean, I was like this, there's no way. Ironically, we were cooking a pot of squirrel and dumplings in the house us and we were already like both planning. This was just another one to add to the to the slow cooker, like for real, and he got away from us. So it was a sad story, said Jordan came out and helped to towards the end. Yeah, can you verify that what we said is true? I mean, did it happened that way? I was inside just taking care of some camera equipment and a couple of gunshots

and some yelling later on chaos. Oh man. I still don't know how that why that Scirl acted that way. But it was a bad deal. He has a bad deal. But for all we know, he is in the in the ceiling of this building right now, chewing the wires of my office. All right, we gotta get back to business here, guys. Um, what's a good segue after that into talking to Ford about First Light? You know what I want to know? To me, first Light seems like like the Google of Like okay, like at the Google

headquarters they have like those snap pods. We don't have nap pods, if that's what you mean. That's that's about where I was going with this. No, just I was more thinking those like swirly slides, like multicolored like children's slides. None of those either. Don't have any of those. Okay, Well tell us tell us what it's like. Now you have it. You have an incredible job. Um, Like, what what's it like working at the first headquarters? And have you seen it evolved? So you started working for the

like four or five years ago. Yeah, it's grown a ton. It's grown a ton. It's it's kind of become more of a grown up business. We have sort of yeah, we do have standing desks. Okay, you have a couple of standing desks. They don't seem to get a ton of use. We had some Bounty ball chairs over the years that was sort of Google ish. Those didn't seem to last very long. Um, but it's great, man, It's it's a really neat place to to work. How many people work there? Um, you know, I'm not sure where

we're at this point. Um, twenty one will be at maybe yeah, and that's but it's kind of not fair to say that because we've got distribution center, we've got developers, we've got factories, we've got garment architects. I mean, how would you how would you describe what kind of clothing First Light makes to someone who wouldn't be familiar with First Light gare Oh right, Yeah, so we make we

make technical hunting apparel. Yeah. Scott and Kent were the first folks to put I believe in the hunting industry, to put camouflage onto marino wool. That was sort of

their initial innovation. So they started very much in sort of the base core, mid layers and in the years since it spiraled out to sort of a full service hunting apparel brand with full gear for white tail hunters, Western big game hunters, anything sort of big And so First Life's really known originally for their marino wool and bringing that into the hunting hunting industry exactly as a as a as a kind of a miracle fabric for active hunting. Yep. Scott and Kenton, um, we're using a

ton of marino wool. Uh in in Central Idaho, snowmobiling, skiing, uh, you know, kind of all kinds of snow sports. Kenton was a big snowboarder. Also, Scott's a big downhill skiar. So they were using this fabric and sort of other pursuits um, hike and fishing, etcetera. But uh, you couldn't find any hardly in kind of colors besides black, and

even black for September archery hunt wasn't really ideal. So that's sort of where that impetus came from, that desire to use that fabric in a in a context, you know, hunting context, and to print and or just produce it in colors that were more favorable to hunting. Yeah, a lot of people wouldn't a lot of people in the South I have found, and this would include have included me. Up until about five or six years ago, I wouldn't

have understood understood much about well. To me, wool was what you wore when it was like ultra cold, certainly, but what these thin marino wool layers, it's actually what you want to wear when it's hot, because it's it's it's thermoregulating your temperature. It's pulling when it's hot, it's

pulling away. It's pulling away heat from your body. So, I mean when the thing that the sort of simple image that's really powerful I think is a sheep, right, I mean, think about how much wool sheep has on it, and sheep deal with temperatures across the world from a hundred degree is to negative ten degrees. You know, they're pretty outfitted for whatever comes that way, and they they certainly aren't putting a whole lot of layers on and

off in the process. Isn't that why the best marino woolf comes from New Zealand because of the temperature swings, didn't I hear? Yea that I don't. Actually, I'm presuming

that the climate is important to marino's loving. I'm pretty sure I heard Scott Robinson say on a podcast that marino wolf from New Zealand is or maybe that's the only place where a lot of it comes from, but it's but it's because of the temperature swing, like it can get extremely hot but also extremely cold, and certainly can and so and that's exactly what a human would

use that wolf exactly. Yeah, you know, And I'm not honestly sure whether people raise marino sheep there because of the conditions or whether marino sheep are raised there because of the conditions and then they can deal with the temperature swings. But either which way, New Zealand produces a good chunka and since so that's so marino wolves the thing the first lights originally started. But now you have a full product line of outer outer layer materials, synthetic

materials of all kinds of stuff. I mean, we started sort of, I think the first initial desire was completing our own basically September elk kits, you know, October deer

kits in central Idaho. So you know, I think we started with lightweight puffy jackets, lightweight rain jackets for sort of the backcountry hunting we did there in Idaho, and from there we kind of spread, uh towards more Eastern tree stan oriented stuff, stuff in the stationary hunter that has to deal with a lot of a lot of low tempts and a lot of inactivity that way in terms of keeping you warm. So yeah, it's it's been a it's been a process, but we now offer solutions

for for pretty much all big game hunters East West. Yeah, you know, I would say for someone that doesn't own any of this type of gear. What you could start off with that would be practical for any hunter hunting in any place in North America would be a basse layer marino wool. I mean, like I pretty much don't do any type of honey without the bass layer marino wool on skin, you know, And that would be a good place to start for people and then move up from there. Next skin is next to skin is the

place where're going to realize those benefits. You really don't realize the benefits until you do it. I mean, like I am anti gimmick when it comes to hunting gear, like and uh, and you might hear it. And if you've never wore the thin marino wool, it may not make sense. But once you start wearing it, it makes sense. Yeah, not only for active hunting, but for tree stand hunting too. It's a game changer. Yeah, from tell me how how how is it a game changing for tree stand sitting? Yeah?

I mean it sounds kind of cliche, but you really do sit more and longer when you do sit because you're more comfortable for the entirety of the hunt. Yeah, it wasn't that long ago, five six years ago. It was just the game of how many you know, pairs of sweatpants? Could I squeeze underneath this one you know, printed camel layer of clothing that I have between September and December thirty one, just being miserable out there, and you know this is I think most people in Minnesota

have multiple pairs of sweatpants. Probably Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all, but yeah, I mean getting down when it's late season, it's cold. I lived in Minnesota, I would have like eight pairs of sweatpants, eight sweatpants status, how cold is it? It's about eight sweatpants born and it's a it's a good measure. Well. The other thing, too, is I think people forget that getting in and out of trees, it's important not to get sweated up. It's

important not to get overheated. So breathable clothing that can deal with moistures, it can be important in that regard all white til hunters. Yeah, yeah, very much. So well, okay, so we've talked about first Light. Let's go let's talk about the capture creative a little bit more. So you guys, so you're you're working with first Light. It's the business as you and Taylor. Um, what would you say, what is your bread and butter media creation? Like, what do

you love to do? I mean, we're definitely pretty diverse in our capabilities and what we do. Um, it's not really one thing that you know makes up a bigger piece of the pie. Um. We do everything from photography to you know, filmmaking too. We help out with social media accounts for for certain brands and um, I mean it definitely all stammed with photography and videography. Yeah, that's

what about you? You just you though, like what you're photographer, videography increasingly the you know, the whole cinematography and just making making typical things, things that you see a lot or maybe otherwise, but just making them look visually appealing and trying to see them in a through different lands.

I mean, for instance, this week, we were we were doing stuff that I've never done before and trying to show that to people who are could be in my same shoes, you know, never seeing somebody shoot a bow and arrow off the back of a mule, or chasing squirrels down you know, down a down an old road or anything like that. You know, it's constantly the wheels are kind of spinning on how you can tell that story and that's it's not always easy, but man, it's

it's rewarding and that's that's what keeps you going. So it keeps me going at it. Yeah, well it was. It was a lot of fun this week. What I what I learned this week watching you because I'm a videographer myself. You know, we make a lot of videos, so we and I edit and I shoot steel photography, and what I saw this week and I was really

interested to see how you guys would operate. But I just saw a level of excellence that helped me kind of up the bar just as i've i've as i've watched you deal with light, I mean you're like a you're like, uh, I don't know the word to use, but I mean just like like conciouseur. Yeah, I mean, it's it's really all about all about lighting, in the in the detail that you go to with lighting to get a certain shot. And uh, it's always it's always fun to well I've never done it before, worked with

somebody that was just at a I mean a different level. Yeah. Well, I mean in regardless of what what it is that you're doing, like that it's I mean, for instance, even even like you me watching you, even though I was filming, I'm still taking in what you're doing and learning just kind of the general like woodsmanship and everything. And it

definitely it goes both ways. You know. When I'm when I'm on a shoot like that, I'm constantly constantly trying to just pick stuff up while I'm you know, looking for light, looking for those angles, looking for the right composition, that sort of thing. It's it's you. Definitely you learn more and you learn different things than you expect to on a shoot like this and even shoots last fall. Yeah. Sure, Now do you mind telling us what kind of equipment

your main camera? Is? That? Cool? Yeah? Yeah, no, absolutely so this week the main rig that I was filming with was was a red cameras to Scarlet Wum. Awesome camera. Definitely not perfect for the conditions that we were that we found ourselves in by any means, but due to a variety of reasons, picture quality, the image that it puts out is incredible that working with it, and post is pretty incredible too, with you know, working with raw footage and it's yeah, it's it's a lot to deal

with out there. But it's definitely worth it. Yeah, I just interjected, Jordan carried a red camera, which ways, what do you think It's got to be close to ten twelve pounds by the time it's kidded out and you were carrying your other gear too though, minimum And I've seen Jordan carried up and down mountains, but this week alone, Jordan carried it seven miles just today. Yeah, their shoulder. Yeah, and really not just carried it but sort of pointed

it for seven miles. Yes, there's seven miles of filming. That's probably another good metric that you can ask for real, it was for distance. So inside of this scenario forward, you're the you're the producer, So you're here with Jordan's and you're like, you're I mean, you you don't really tell him what to do. It's been fun watching you guys work together because I've yet to hear you tell

him to do something. But yet you're working your your your partner together and you're kind of it's kind of like you are both on the same bandwidth and you're co laboring together. But so you're here like yeah, yeah, I mean I don't I just I generally know that you know Jordan and I discuss what we want to do and pretty much know that Jordan will get the shots. Um, I don't really have any He's never not gotten him. Let's put it that way. No pressure anyway, but no

pressure at all. Let's keep it that way. The team aspect of it is pretty important too. We've been on enough shoots together where we kind of know, not even verbally, we don't really even have to say anything too often to each other to know what needs to happen and when and all the logistics of everything that goes into it. Yeah,

well it's been it's been a lot of fun. And for me is a is a videographer, which certainly I would I don't talk about a lot about like camera gear or whatnot on this podcast, never have, but I'm kind of a I'm a I'm an aspiring videographer and some trying and learn as much as I can. But a red camera, for those of you that wouldn't know what this is in the in the film world with people that are into film, A red cameras like iconic of like the best. So it's a neat, neat piece

of equipment. You've got a Ronan gimbal they've been using some Yeah, and it's important to say to I mean this, I feel pretty lucky to be able to run a camera like this. But it's not the gear that exactly, it's nothing to do. I could have shot this film on a camera that's much less one with that, right is and still tell the story that we needed to tell.

But um, just you know, when you're when tools are available to you, and you know, it's just like anything else, you want to use the best thing that you can to tell it. And sometimes this camera isn't. And that that's a great that's a great point. Is that And I've learned that is that it is not because people ask you all the time, what kind of cameras do you what kind of cameras does shoot? What kind of

cameras do you shoot? And you want to say the camera is not the limiting factor of your ability to tell the story, you know. But but when you're but it's good to have good equipment, but that's not the limiting factor of how well, look at all your super successful videos collide through bear Hunting magazine. Yeah, and look how terrible the videography that where you're going with us

for it. I'll tell another squirrel story about you. Those those those videos have really landed, you know, despite not having a red camera. So forward to segue into something totally different, as we're closing down here, as a conservation

director of First Light, tell me tell us what that means. Basically, I work with our conservation partners are n GEO partners, kind of nonprofit groups, to ensure that the First Light is doing it's best to give back to sort of the hunting tradition and the wild landscape that we based our business on and that all our employees pass are

based on. You know, it's sort of twofold. They're selfish and selfishly we're all hunters that that depend on wild land and wild places, and and the folks we sell gear to depend on wildlands and wild place wildlife and wild places. So that means you're coordinating. Can you give us an example? Ye? Yes, so I'm I work basically with our four current partners and conservation quite a bit.

That would be back in three Hunters and Anglers, the National Wildlife Federation, Pheasants Forever, and uh the Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partnership in supporting them, uh sort of on several fronts obviously giving um and in sort of donations that way, but also I think, and I think what's frankly kind of more important for a small company is education and outreach for them, making sure that that we can help them spread those messages that are so important via the

small channels we have, UM, you know, because obviously we're never gonna donate as much as proper and gamble, but if we can get people to call their senators or on important conservation legislation, or inform people about wildlife diseases or whatever it may be, I think I think that's maybe our most important contribution, is our voice to to a certain hunting demographic. Mm hmm. That's great. So is that so your your roll inside of that is that

like an everyday thing at First Life for you? Okay? I mean that's like your primary because you're also doing some marketing, several primaries, I suppose. UM. I also manage all of our photo and video content, which is you know, arguably why I'm on here with Jordan's UM. So that's producing, putting together photo shoots, uh, dealing and working with photo

ambassadors with photographers, sending up video shoots. UM. You know, kind of managing the myriad of ways that photo and video come to First Light, and then helping to deploy them via social via blogs on the website, on ads, on you know, print ads whatever. So that's that's one silo. And then I helped merchandise our website, so I put together sort of how products displayed to customers that build that out. I've managed copy um and pricing and and

help execute. Just think forward. You started out as an intern, I was. I was first lights here. I think the first light is like a dream, like the like the dreammaker, like this young this young chap from Maryland probably didn't stand a chance anywhere else in the world. I went to catch him outa hoo as an intern and ends

up as a conservation director marketing strategists, yeah, exact. And then this young chap Minnesota boy who fishes on ice, which is bizarre and crazy, lands as a pro staffer on the first start first like crew, and then all of a sudden he's making he's making movies for him. Yeah. Yeah, wow, we both got pretty lucky that way. I'd say, yeah, now, but it isn't that the cool thing about uh up and coming company? That's you know, thinking progressively. I mean, yeah,

it's pretty neat. It's pretty neat. I mean, honestly, with sort of the recent addition of this conservation element to my job. I mean, if you had asked the four fourteen kind of what his ideal job was, it would be pretty pretty sticking close to this one. Yeah, you have a you have a really for you have a pretty extensive background in wildlife through your car. I mean you were ye, that was really right. That's where I was going. I mean I went to college. I was

going to be a wild life biologist. I remember repeatedly my mother is saying to me, well, you know, you just you don't necessarily have to do what your major in. You know, you just never know what you're gonna do. And I said, no, Mom, that doesn't matter. I'm never going to stand out a desk and to be a wildlife biologist. And uh so that's that's what my major was, conservation biology. My thesis, which we've I've talked about probably too much this week, was on black parry habitat requirements

in the in the Southeast. And I worked for the Fishing Wildlife Service out of college and also for the University of Delaware doing some deer trapping. So I was fully down that path. And anyhow, I guess the long the wraparound is that that's come, that's come kind of full circle in this in this newest position here at first like that's there at first laid I was. I was really happy when I heard that you got that job.

That's that's incredible. You know, it is our connection. The first time that I met you, you told me that you had read all these research projects about Arkansas black bear and you've done a study. And you were the first person that I had met, aside from the Game and Fish by the program coordinator for Arkansas Game and Fish, the bear coordinator, that had ever read these thesis because there were only there's only a handful of research that's

been done in Arkansas. And when I was in college, my story was I was going to college for environmental, soil and water science. Killed a bear on October one, two thousand one, kind of became mesmerized by Arkansas black bear. When I realized that I didn't know anything about this animal I just killed. Went back to the University of Arkansas and started and somehow found these research thesis of all these students, and there were only two or three

official research studies at that time. And so I read the same paper as you did. Oh, I mean there's only there's not that many we did. We read the same papers, and so, yeah, it was funny. When we were talking to your dad the other day, he was actually, I don't remember how I said it exactly, but it's like, yeah, Clayman went to the University Arkansas. He was studying bears. He wasn't. He wasn't, I mean, he wasn't studying bears,

but I think he was studying bears. Yeah. Yeah, Well I spent a lot of time, more time than I should have been studying for the real thing I was there at school for. But but no, no, I worked out for it. I mean it worked. It's funny how these things become your livelihood, even though they aren't necessarily the you know, the the straight and narrow paths, or

how they come up. I actually took a course in college in my senior year, uh called Adventure Writing and Filmmaking, and did a project on bare hounding uh in Vermont. While writing a thesis on black bear habit was really the year of the bear for me. While writing this thesis on black bear habitat requirements and uh. And it was funny because at the time that was such a one off class. I really liked it. I had already I've done quite a bit of writing, I was interested

in writing. I hadn't done any filmmaking, and put it put together this film on black bear hunting. But it's funny how that of all things, that has become the one class that's directly relevant career and all the other studying though I think arguably indirectly relevant. Well, you got a lot of street cred here at the Global headquarters when I heard you made a barehound in the film. You're probably the only person I ever got to talk to you about my thesis very often. That's why I

talked to you about it too much. Yes, yes, you did. That's awesome. That's awesome. And then and then you have a similar story, Jordan, of just taking a chance starting a business. You've got a family, Taylor's got a family, and you use study graphic design but ended up pursuing a passion. I think that's the theme of of of everybody that's inside the outdoor industry, you know, is that just never in your passion, never counted out, and don't be afraid to stick your neck out there and make

something happen. Yeah, yeah, you never know where you might end up. Well, guys, it's been a pleasure having you at the global headquarters. Jed is not in here, but he he probably will be as soon as you guys leave when we get that red camera on the floor.

So he doesn't like market, you know. But uh now, thanks for being on the on the podcast and uh man, well uh any closing comments, closing thought, Okay, go through your list of first like this, this, this, this, and then like's saying not something nice about Arkansas, Jordans, go first, it's a small small game. Hunt's fun. It's just fun. Didn't that It's just yeah, like I said, I didn't know what to expect coming into it and opened my eyes. Yeah,

they might have converted this. Uh this pure bred white tail hunter, pure bred gray lights white tail hunter. Go in there and stink up those deer woods man, you know, don't just at first at first? Uh yeah, thank you, thanks for showing us what you do and say you do it and it's awesome. Had a great yeah, oh yeah, man, it was. This is awesome. Especially coming off trade show season, the salty cynicism of trade show or consumer show season.

Getting to come down here and do this is pretty fun. Ye. First, do not include having a squirrel jump on me. Yeah, that happened to me in the past. But oh, that wasn't the first. No, no, that happened to me. I had one jumping out of the rafters of a garage on I mean, that's that's what happened here. It was strange. It only happened once. But there was definitely this oh this again feeling actually on one level when said squirrel jumped on my I've never seen one do that before. Yeah,

you never know. First, definitely, they'll include squirrel hunting with mules and dogs. I mean the dogs. I guess we didn't talk about that, but man, the squirrel dog thing is cool. It's really neat. I was. I was very into that, very into that. Um yeah, squirrel hunting with dogs, raccoon hunting in general, that was totally new. Honestly, the only thing I had to compared to is bear hunting with dogs. It's really not a lot like it. No, No, not not that similar, except for there they had the

same structure. The vacu lie, yes, found that Yeah, um, but no, man, it was it was really neat and seeing these mountains and hanging out in this this uh this landscape. It was. It was really special. Yeah. Well, thanks a lot guys for coming down and uh, keep the wild places wild because that's where the bears live. Good, I like you good good. That's my that's my that's my tag shirt that says that I never thought of it,

never thought of it. Hey, it's on record of me saying I don't get a cut of that, well, as long as you give me a cut of the really not slop film. Not really what's that? Oh yeah yeah store