Dummies Guide to Black Bear Shot Placement

a new shotgun called the Renegade. Now, there's a lot of awesome things about this shotgun, like it's ergonomic, well balanced design, it's patented stock pad that knocks down recoil, and something that these guys are very product proud of called their drive gas system d r i V. And what that stands for is dual regulating in line valve gas system. And what this is is basically allows the shotgun to shoot three inch magnums or two and three

quarter inch cartridges, all with the same consistency. If you want to find out more about the new shotgun, the Renegade from Savage Arms, visit Savage Arms dot com slash Renegage. My name is Clay Nucolman. I'm the host of the Bear Honey Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into the world of hunting the icon of North American wilderness, the Bear. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation. We will also bring you into some of the wildest country on

the planet, Chasing Bear. Happy spring, folks, It is go time for black bear hunting in North America and we ourselves as we speak, are in wild places hunting bears. We are going to re release an episode called black

Bear Shot Placement for Dummies. This is a this is coming at a great time, and this is again a really comprehensive conversation that we have that dissect the nitty gritty nerd out just technical talk of bears in Bear Hunting magazine, fun and conversational, long form fashion, fun stuff, good stuff. You're gonna enjoy this podcast. Use some North Woods bear products when you're baiting bears this spring. I

like the gold Rush friar grease additive. Had a guy asked me today what you're supposed to do with that? As you're supposed to port on the ground. If you're supposed to pour it on the food, pour it on the food, pour it on your bait. The grease that's been that has the gold Rush in it. Hey, check out our friends at w Hunting Supply. They they've started a podcast. Check it out all right. Hey, while you're at it, check out our friends at at Houndsman XP

podcast as well. Doing some good stuff and lastly, the Western Bear Foundation, nonprofit hunting conservation organization standing up for hunters out west, fighting the good fight, fighting the good fight that you know, we humans have been hunting critters with projectile points for a long time and there's people that don't think that we should, and um, so we have to. We have to support the organizations that are

fighting for our rights to be human. So I hope you enjoy this episode, and I know you will if you're interested in bears and good hunting, if you get out into a wild place. The topic that we're gonna talk about on this episode is shot placement on black bear and we're gonna get into several different topics that are highly relevant. But before we get into the episode, I want to introduce who I've got with me here. I have directly to my left, Ryan No greb Ryan Grab.

Ryan is Uh a long time good friend of mine. And Ryan was killing bears while my mama was still wiping my knows. It's true now Ryan has Ryan's traveled with me all over Canada. But more than that, Ryan's hunted in Arkansas for years. Ryan's been on the podcast before, but he's he's hunted bears in Arkansas since well for years and years, killed a lot of big bears, bow hunted bears a lot, and so I consider Ryan an

expert for sure. So he's here. And then on my right someone that you well, Kobe has been on this podcast before. I've got Colby moorehead. Colby has is now news to all of everybody. He's working full time for Bear Hunting Magazine. So Kolbe is also a longtime friend of mine that uh is now he's full time working for Bear Hunting Magazine helping us with all kinds of stuff. So if you ever call the global headquarters, you'll probably

talked to Colby. And Colby is a bear hunter. He's a new bear hunter, went on his first bear hunt back in the fall and took a really nice bear. And so we've got a good mix right here and that um, we've we've got a lot of experience. But also, um, you know, Koby's new to bear hunt, so you might have some questions or you might hear us talking to might have some insight and something that somebody else might have.

I just feel sorry for him what he is to hang with you here in the office during the every day, all day and he's right underneath the big bear over here. You need to make him a cubicle over here where you don't have to look at you like, box him in. Yeah, we can box him in. But well, hey, let's let's jump right into this and I'll kind of give the

precursor to why this is relevant. Most people in North America, most of the guys that are listening to this podcast, have been trained on whitetail deer anatomy for shooting, well, for shooting any big game. We've been trained to hunt ungulates, deer, elk, moose that all have a really similar body structure. They have a similar bone structure, they have a similar um anatomical or organ structure. But they also have short hair,

they don't have big layers of fat. And so basically, shooting a bear is different than shooting and ungulate, and there's lots of different variables inside of it that are important for a first time bear hunter or even a veteran bear hunter. I mean, the truth is that in most situations, and right would you agree with this most situations, if you just took a deer hunter out and didn't tell him anything, he could probably go out and shoot a bear. I mean and not have any problem, but

in the finer tuned points of bear hunting. And if you took that same guy, and this is the way I would describe it, if you took that same guy that was trained as the white tail hunter and put him on ten bear hunts, I'm gonna say three of those ten he's gonna mess up simply because of lack of understanding of a few principles. I mean, is that a good? And that is that a good? Yeah? You know, bear postures constantly changing, you know, Yeah, you're looking for

that broadside shot more often than not. I mean, dear, that's preferred to shot anyway, but a lot of people take the quartering away shots. But you know, bears, the if you can get that broadside, that's usually money. Yeah. Well, let's start off by talking about bar anatomy. I read a a article that was written very recently that was circulating on uh Facebook, clicked on it. It was about ten ten I think it was ten things about spring bear hunting, and one of them was about a shot placement.

And this this author said that bear organs are further forward than a deer, which I want to quickly say is exactly opposite of what I have found, not just in what I've read, but we did the first year had Barrenting magazine. We killed We went up to Alberta

and we killed six bears in five days. We actually did a knee cropsy on a bear where we took the carcass with all the internal organs inside and stripped off the layers of rib or the stripped off the rib meat so that you could see into the rib cage and tried to determine like where the lungs would layout. And man, we made some incredible diagrams that were in Barrehunting Magazine. They're also online. And to make a short summary, bare vitals are slightly further back than a white tail.

Would you agree with that? Right? So there, so let me just say that is a big premise of black bear shot placement and brown bear for that matter. The vitals they're not it's not like they're just like in the middle of the body, but they extend slightly further back. I found that the lungs of these bears went all the way back to the very last rib, which, if you can imagine shooting a white tail at the very last rib, you'd be pretty far back. You would kill that.

You'd kill the deer because you'd get liver. But the lungs of I mean the very tip of that long and I'm not saying that all the way back at the last rib there was eight inches of lung. That's what I'm saying. That the lungs are like oblong shaped, you know, they're like they're like long and deep towards the front of the animal and they go back like this. And so the back to the very last rib there was a little bit of lung. So I'm not saying

that's where you want to hit them. The second part of that, Kolbe has some experience with this, Kobe, you really made a mistake by shooting the bear far back on the first hunt. Ever with me, you were like the prime target to just make an example out of. But you got the right posture for it. Here. I'm glad I could take on that for everyone. Oh man, it was on video. It was all there. But for whatever reason, and this perhaps is it has to do

with the anatomical structure of the bear. But you can shoot a bear further back than a white tail and be okay. There was an article that we had published a few years years ago called the middle of the Middle, which there are a lot of Canadian outfitters that tell their clients to shoot a bear in the middle. And I think the way it started out was they said, hey, shoot the bear in the middle, and the client said,

what do you mean the middle? And the guy in the outfitter goes the middle of the middle, I mean straight up middle of the bear, and uh what This article is written by a guy named Rob Knives, Saskatchewan outfitter that I know, and uh he was taught that by some other old outfitters. And man, when you shoot in the middle of the middle, you have a lot of room for air. And that's the whole point of it, a lot of room for air. Now, I do not suggest I don't like shooting them in the middle of

the middle. I like to go about four inches back towards the shoulder from the middle of the middle. And when I say the middle of the middle, I'm talking about the distance between the front legs and the back legs. I'm not including like the head of the bear, but like the middle of the middle. I like to go about three to four inches back towards the shoulder. So slightly further back. Then then you would like try to

heart shoot a bear. And that's maybe the biggest thing that's different about bear hunt bear hunting versus deer hunting is that as deer hunters, we were always taught to try to heart shoot the deer. Okay, which would be low and tight. You don't want to do that with a bear, do you agree, Ryan? I agree. You've got all that hair hanging down below. You know that hair, it could be two inches long, could be four inches long, So definitely want to try to get it the vertical

line in the middle the body. Yeah. You The problem with low and tight on him on a bear is that what Ryan said, Imagine a big, mature board that's got two inches of fat beneath the rib cage. He's also got hair that's a minimum of two inches, but could be hanging down as much as four inches, And so what you perceive as a silhouette at the bottom of that bear is actually probably six to eight inches above.

That would be vital. And so a veteran bow hunter that was hunting with me at one time who had taken a lot of white tails with a bow, I mean ate a lot of white tails bear hunting for first time, and he just tried to heart shoot this bear, I mean, just low and tight, and he ten ringed right where he was aiming. We never found that bear, totally hit it in the brisket and he was fooled by the silhouette of that bear. Um. Now have you ever have you ever hit a bear low and tight?

I don't think I ever have. Now the two thousand and sixteen up Uh bear pro Safar as you know, shot that one low and back, but I've never shot one low and forward. I wasn't sure if you had, because I have another story of a friend of ours here in Arkansas that had a monster bear come in and it was just kind of one of those deals. Or I think he would say he was probably just on autopilot and was just trying to heart shoot it

and shot low and tight. And it was a big bear, so it was exaggerated, long hair, lots of fat, thick rib cade and so I mean he just basically shot the bear in the brisket where if it had been a white tail, he would tendering that that's a big deal with black bears that you don't want to do with archery shots. Is low and tight. You want to be further up and number Another thing is that a

bear doesn't jump the string like a white tail. I mean, especially with the with video and all the stuff on that we're seeing now almost a hundred percent of the time these white tails are dropping at the sound of an arrow, even if you still kill the deer. I mean, like we've killed all these deer with bows not on film, and you just you kill this steer. Those deer dropping a lot, sometimes dropping sixteen inches before the era gets

there like a thirty yard shot. A white tail as a prey and only as a flight response to danger, a massive quick flight response. A bear has some of a flight response, but not near as much as a white tail, would you agree in terms of dropping and going. He's not on pins and needles all day long like a deer is thinking he's gonna get eats an a ex animal and probably stays relaxed, you know, most of the day. So he's probably not sensing a lot of danger.

And so the translation of that into bear shot placement is that you don't have to aim low like as bow hunters we've been taught to aim low on a deer. Man you don't want to hit low on a bear because that silhouette is so deceptive. And I would say that's the Those are the biggest things. Like, if we're talking about shot placement slightly further back than a bear,

don't be afraid. Most people aim so far forward because they're afraid to hit so far back because in the white tail world we have been preached to our whole life, don't hit him far back, don't hit him far back. And honestly, I would rather hit a white tail far back than I would further forward. I think people that that has been preached us so much because guys have really not been very good blood trailers. That's the truth.

I've found that inside of my IT scursions, inside of other hunting circles, is that guys sometimes make a shot that they probably could recover that animal, but they really don't have the skill to blood trail that animal, And so a marginal shot all of a sudden becomes a marginal but mortal shot becomes an unfounder. And obviously I'm not suggesting shooting dear far back at all, but that fear that's been put in us to hit an animal too far back has pushed us forward to the animal.

But with a bear, you can be a little bit further back, a little more forgiving, little more forgiving if you're hitting in that middle of the middle or you know that that mid section from Kobe tell us about your bear, just kind of like where about where you perceived the shot to be. Yeah, it was. It was

a straight up gut shot, you know. Uh, I was aiming like the middle of the middle, but then he started moving and I was already in my shot sequence, so uh so like vertically it was in the middle, and I think that was made things come together in the end, just that and then backing off for the night and waiting until the next morning to to look for him. But I mean he was pretty riggered up, like he had died, like he'd been dead. Awhile a mechanical or fixed blood. No, I was shooting a four

bladed fixed Yeah. It passed through, passed all the way through. I mean, it didn't get liver. It was like way back and uh we we backed out, came back the next day. And now, granted this is a situation where somebody who didn't have a lot of experience might have had a hard time trailing that bear. I'm not gonna lie about that. But Corey Grant all trained, He's a good blood trailer, and I mean we we just we

found just spots of blood. I mean just I mean it was a tough trail, don't get me wrong, but the bear ran probably two yards to fifty m h and um, we easily recovered the bear. I mean, now we had to. We had to fight for it a little bit. I mean just in that there were times when we lost it and we were going off a scuff mark and the leaves going down the hill. But I mean, you know, within forty five minutes we were

standing over the bear. Yeah. I think the thing that surprised me was when the blood stopped hitting the ground and you just started seeing smudge marks on the side of trees. Yep. You gotta you gotta use everything in your arsenal when you're telling any kind of animal. Like if we had just been looking for bright red blood drops on the ground, we would never found that bear.

But we were staying on game trails. We started splitting up going down different game trails, and you you learn to look at the backside of all these leaves because this bear and we'll talk about how bears are notorious within with a not ideal shot there, notorious for not bleeding much. But the point is we found the bear no problem. That's what these middle of the middle guys

say all the time. It's like they say they'd rather have a gut shot bear than a bear that was shot too far, low and forward, or shot straight in the shoulder, you know, because you are not going to break through a bare's shoulder with archer equipment, I don't believe. I mean, perhaps there's a you'd have to be very

lucky too. Yeah, you probably have to hit some kind of artery something to even kill something with a far forward shot lock at and he's you know, I've never trailed a bear and recovered one as far as Kobe's. You know, usually if you get yards, that's really that's been your experience. Yeah, you know, I've had some bad shots, and you know, I've trailed them jokers, like you say, three hundred four hundred yards and on minimal blood never find them. But usually a lethal shot on a bear,

you know, a hundred yards are less. They just don't you know, they don't carry their weight that farest seems, you know, they kind of give out quick if they're hit good. Yeah, let's go ahead and jump into what I was saying about how and how a bear bleeds and the importance, the whole point of this is gonna be the importance of getting two holes with so this would factor into the shot angle, but also your equipment that you're using. But a big priority with bear is

to get two holes. So it goes back to what you said at the beginning. A broadside shot is what you want. A broadside shot gives you the shortest distance between two points when the era is going through and even if the ara is not sticking in the ground on the other side, but if the broadhead at least penetrates the skin on the other side, you've got two

two holes. That bear is gonna bleed more. But bears are notorious for not bleeding because they are they do have a lot of fat, They do have a lot of a lot of fur, which is like a mop. I mean, it's soaking up some of that blood, not all of it. And you know, if you just double double lung tin ring a bear, I mean he's gonna

bleed pretty good. But when you get into that marginal category, like with Colby's if you had only gotten uh, had one hole, didn't have an exit wound, you know, we would have had a much more difficult time finding that bear. But he he was bleeding on two sides because we got that penetration. And so that goes back to on whitetail. A quarter and away shot is a pretty good shot. Smaller animal, smaller bone, not a stick of hide, I'll stick of hair. You could probably gonna you know, you're

probably gonna get a pass through. And unless you hit that offside shoulder on a cord and away shot on a deer, and I mean we even look for a quarter and away shot on a deer oftentimes. Um, but boy, you want to get you want to get two holes. The other thing about getting two holes is that most bears are being shot out of tree stands, especially in a bait situation. And if you get one hole from a high elevated position, that means your entry hole is gonna be high on that animal and that dude is

gonna bleed very little. You need a lower hole. Yep, you know that's where you're gonna get you. I guess you could set up a dungeon type set up where you had a hole underneath, and whether you're shooting up into the bears. Oh man, like dig a hole. It's a whole new setup. You're supposed to laugh that cold then your tree hole would be on the bottom of the bear. That's for all those duck hunters out there, they can just you know, ye like yeah, like a like a duck hole, like a what would you call

that pit? Yes? Yes, well okay, so getting two olds okay, and that even goes into your equipment. Like we at Bear Hunting Magazine, we are pretty much adamant about not using the expandables for bear Okay, there's gonna be a ton of people that maybe even listen to this podcast that will say that have killed bears with expandables, as have I. But I have heard too many stories and seen for myself too many examples of when they have

not performed as well as a fixed blade broadhead. I mean, just by very principle, it does remove energy from an arrow. For those blades to expand large cutting diameter is gonna cause more friction on that arrow, reducing the energy driving that arrow into the animal. If the whole objective is to get two holes on a big animal, I mean a big white tailed deer is maybe at most twenty inches too. I don't know. Maybe a big Canadian deer would or big Midwest deer be inches wide. I doubt it.

Like you're trying to penetrate block eighteen inches with a big bear trying to penetrate thirty inches, I don't know if that's accurate or not not counting the all the hair you're travling yep to shoot through. Yeah, the conclusion that we've come to is just that if your priority is to get two holes, it's best to use a fixed blay broadhead. And there's all kind of fixed blay broadheads, there's all kind of uh cut on impact broadheads. I would rather have a small hole but have two of

them than have one big hole. I've also heard stories of from reputable, reputable bow hunters and archers that they have seen uh expandable heads get clogged up in hair like like they hit a bear, had reduced penetration, killed the bear, extracted the mechanical broadhead to find it just covered in hair like where it was catching hair and dragging hair into the animal. Do you have any experience with expandables. I've killed probably half of the bears. I

was shot with expandables and had great luck. I haven't had one fail yet. But you know, I've been shooting h it's four blade for the last four or five years. But you know, in the early years when I first started bear hunting too, I just shoot a three blade and yeah, you know it's all no, no, I can see in a with a good shot, like a broadside shot at a reasonable distance when you're not having a

crazy angle. I mean, I agree with you could probably kill everybody in the woods with an expand Yeah, I'm shooting high pounded. You know, I'm shooting right at seventy pounds and all my shots or you know, fifteen yards or less, and you're trying to take that broadside and any percent of the time you are gonna punch through. You know the rif did you get penetrate? You've got to hold a lot of pass throughs. Yeah, yeah, almost. Um, well, okay, tell us why you're using a fixed blade head now,

just you know, I didn't really think about it. Then you want to not your eyes cross your tees. I can see you know, a fixed blade, you are going to get that penetration. You are gonna get that passed through on most every shot. So you know, just trial on air, and I've got to wear a feel more comfortable shooting a fixed blade, you know, uh, confidence in it.

And like you say, I think, uh, you don't have to have the big gaping hole and uh, you know, if you I guess the question is what do you gain by by shooting a expandable You know, I guess the volume of the cut. You know, maybe you're cutting a few more arteries or something like that. But you know, there is always that thought in the back of your mind, off that broadhead failing and not performing, Yeah, like it should. Fixed blade you pretty much eliminate that. What you see

is what you get. Yeah, you know, in my opinion, the expandable broadhead is made for white tail. I mean, it's a smaller animal, not a lot of hair, not thick hide, not thick bones. And they're great and if you get a marginal shot, and I've killed a gob of white tails with expandable heads back in the day, And if you get a marginal shot on a white tail, I would rather be shooting a big fat expandable. But they're really not made for bear. They're really not designed

for a big bone, thick haired, thick, fat animal. That means so it's kind of you know, you could kill every bear in the woods with an expandable. That's the truth. But I believe and in somebody that's as good as you ride and as experienced as you. I've been serious, like, you're not gonna you're not a good example for someone to show an expandable that's messed up. But I would say for the average guy, if he were the average bow hunter with you know, I mean, there's all these

different levels of experience that people have. If he was shooting expandables at tin bears, it's gonna cost him a bear in tin bears, I believe, And you may be on your fifth bear and it's not cost your bears, so you're still going when if you had been shooting a fixed blade, you'd have killed all ten. That's what I believe. And now everybody's gotta do what they think. But that's a pretty good topic. Let's talk real quick

to about set up. A lot of people ask about archery set up for bear and the question is can't I use my white tail set up? And my answer to that is basically yes. I mean, like I'm not I'm shooting around sixty pounds. Actually the bear that I killed in Oklahoma this year, Batman pound bear, I was shooting a fifty well, it may have been sixty pounds. I want to say it was the high fifties, just tendering, you know, no problem. I hit to ended up hitting

kind of the offside shoulder. He had his leg down, so I didn't get just a complete pass through with him. Yeah. Right, you were there with me on the recovery. You know that bear was crouched and he had his elbow back like this, and hit him right here, and it actually went down through his shoulder and like was sticking down in his inside the hide, but in his front leg. So when you getted the bear, you found the arowack

lee And remember were to recover James Lawrence's bear. Ten days later, David Miller found my ironwell broad head on the ground, uh trying to think it was still It's still kind of a mystery to me what happened, because I never found an exit hole. But David Miller found eight inches of arrow in my two grain iron wheel broadhead. We were tracking James kilderbear over there in the same place we went over there and tracted, and he came back and handed me that, And I said, where'd you

find that? Because David was with us when we recovered it, you know. I mean, so anyway, it was just a weird deal because I mean that that bears front legs were you know, ten inches in diameter, so in that arrow just at the steep angle. But point being, you don't need super heavy pounded drying shooting seventy pounds. What was your bow set up? Fifty something? Yeah, yeah, you were, you were sho pretty low poundage average weight there. I

figured your airwaight Kolby was in the four hundreds. I mean you're shooting a Hunter grain trick, Yeah, slick trick magnum. And that's a great head. I mean I love a slick trick broadhead and have for years. Um. I did shoot the iron wheels this year mainly because of my traditional stuff. Um. But if if you and I'm sponsored by no broadhead company, but if you just said clay pick your poison for broadheads, I would id shoot a

Hunter Grain slick Trick magnum. Now for alright, for Compound, I've actually shot their viper trick, which is not a traditional not a not a traditional you know, traditional archery head like that. But so the main thing would be just getting the right broad head and shot placement. It's not about having an eighty pound bow, so you can't use your white tail set up. People evaluate aero penustration based on kinetic energy. Momentum is actually the correct way

to me to evaluate the possibility for ero penetration. But basically momentum measures of vector which vector. Momentum measures the the directional force. Kinetic energy just measures force, just like like an explosion almost, just like just like it just measures how much energy is present in this thing. Basically, what I'm getting to is arrowweight is more important than speed. You know, there was a time when an archery everybody is worried about speed. You know. It's just like shoot

a really fast bow with a light arrow. But a really fast bow with a light arrow does not penetrate as well as a slower bow that's shooting a heavier arrow. Anyway, this is all nerd talk, but momentum is the correct way to measure erro penetration, not kinnectic energy. Didn't speed come from where you're wanting to get it there faster? For the white tilt didn't duck as much. Yeah, like my dad, who who is bow hunted his whole life, he loves speed, and it's because he didn't want to

after judge yardage. He always wanted a bow that would shoot flat to thirty yards, so that just any deer that showed up in the woods of Arkansas, which basically most time you can't see much more than thirty yards. If a deer showed up, he just put his first pen on it because in his experience shooting slowbos all through the seventies and eighties was he was missing deer because of miss judging yardage. That didn't have range finders. You know they are good range finders. He had these

range finders that like combined images. Have you have you seen those rhynd where it's like you put your eye in and you dial it and it like combines the that's old school, yeah, and so so his whole thing was speed so that he didn't miss judge yardage. As I went through that, I was like, well, we we've got range finders. Now you're set in a tree and

you can range everything. So you pretty much no yardages for tree stand whitetil hunting for bear hunting, So I would rather shoot a heavier arrow and get more penetration because I did have some mishaps with uh, not getting penetration with white tells when I was younger. Okay, we've talked about bear anatomy, we've talked about shot angles. We haven't talked as much about shot angles. But like you, you really don't want to take a super steep quarter

and away shot on the bear. Now, if that's all you have, you can certainly kill a bear that is at a court steep quarter and angle, but you're probably gonna forfeit that exit hole, and so you just gotta be prepared for that, and you gotta make sure you're on your a game. Ryan mentioned this earlier, is that one of the biggest differences between deer and bear is that a bear, first of all, is a black animal. Black. The color black is designed to absorb light and to

not give away much. I mean, like, if you just look into a black piece of paper, it's like all you see is black. But if you look at a white piece of paper that maybe was folded just a little bit, like you could see the shadows. White show shadows shows shape, and so a black a bear can often look like just a black trash bag, and you can't see where the shoulder comes up. You can't see the ribs, you can't definition, no definition. Where a white tail ryan has short hair, light colored hair, has a

very defined muscular body. I mean you can see the shoulder, you can see the ribs, you can see the rump, you can see the muscles. So when you look through the peep on the boat a white tail, you can see right where you're aiming. A lot of times with a big bear or a little bear, you pull up and look for a peep and you feel like you're aiming at a black trash bag. And I mean, even inside of me having killed some bears, I still struggle

with that. Sometimes a close range, like close range, you draw and you're like, holy count like in seen the bear that killed in Oklahoma. I don't know why that one got to me. But I drew the bow bear just right there, I mean like ten yards and I looked through the peep and all I could see was black. And I was looking around my peep to trying to get a you know, trying to just figure out where my pen was, and that would lean back in and look and lean back in and look, and finally I

felt like I had where I wanted to hit. I shot and if you remember, I shot far forward. I've had that same problem in low light conditions before dart, you know, trying to see through your peep and like, say, no definition on a bear. You want to make sure that body is not cupped. You know, sometimes they'll roll them hips to the side and be cupped. Uh, that's not the best. Just wait for him to maybe expose that leg or just you know, completely broadside. But yeah,

it's uh, can be tricky. Sometimes we'll see. And that's that's the next point is that a bear can do a whole lot more stuff than a white tail. A bear could be sitting on his button, a bear could be standing up, a bear could have his feet up on a tree. A bear could be cupped. And that's probably to me one of the things that gets most people.

We've made some videos about this. But a bear could look like he's broadside, but actually his spine would be like in a u A deer can't even do that hardly, But like a bear could be appeared to be broadside looking at you, but actually eighty percent of his vitals be covered because he's cupped like a you know, I mean like a like a dog. Well that's that's not a good example, but yes, or or a lot of times with invated situations, bears come in and lay down.

Lots of guys have shot bears laying down, and again, you can do it, but it's trickier because those vitals are compacted. He's literally laying on his rib cage. Those ribs flex and you you know, shooting a bear laying down, you're probably shooting at a target that is twenty less in size than it would be if the bear was standing up. Would you agree with that? I mean, like that that rib cage would flex just a little bit

and those vitals would those vitals would compress. So basically a deer doesn't just have the flexibility to do what a bearer does. That throws people off, runing people, especially people that aren't familiar with seeing bear. As a bear comes in, he might be standing up, he might be laying down. He might be setting on his haunches, you know, licking his bottom feet. He might be he could do all kinds of stuff. I've seen you do that yourself,

my feet, you know, occasionally that man that's massively. When I first started hunting bears, I remember just kind of being like confused by watching a bear move. And I think that's kind of what freaks people out sometimes when they're hunting bear for the first time. It's just to see an animal that that's just different than what they're used to. Kobe was at your experience, Yeah, it was

really surprising, like first being so big. They're pretty pretty since they are like they're pretty, like they know what movements they're making. Is like they're so articulate with their movements. I guess it would be this things. They're definitely in the the yoga animal. You know, if you like to do yoga, the bears your spirit animal. Ryan's big in the yoga the yoga. Yeah, that's one more thing let's talk about. So we most of what we've talked about

here would relate directly to archery hunting. I do want to say that hunting with a rifle is gonna be different. Now barre anatomy stays the same, all the stuff stays the same in terms of the actual bear, but with a rifle, shooting the high powered rifle, you're kind of been a different ball game, because you can shoot a bear straight in the shoulder, high in the shoulder and just drop them. You can shoot a bear that's facing you. I would never suggest shooting an archery bear just head on.

I mean, I I know it's worked for people. I mean, I'm sure it has. But well, you know, bullet, you're getting that shock, that energy, hydro static shock, you're shutting down the electrical system. Basically, shoot him in the shoulder head on, like you're talking about quarterin away a little more forgiving on. Definitely a rifle, right, So with a rifle, I would have to say that it would be fairly

similar to a white tail in principle. I mean, because you can shoot in the shoulder, you can shoot him head on, you can shoot him quarter in away. That wouldn't be a problem. Um, you know, you don't have to obviously judge for you don't need to shoot low because they're not gonna jump the string. I mean, so rifle hunting is quite different. And this par podcast really isn't about rifle caliber, but a lot of questions about caliber rifle and it kind of goes back to the

same thing with archery. You can kill a bear with a thirty thirty and a hundred and fifty grain bullet. I mean there's lots of bear it probably thirties, probably killed as many bears as any is any caliber, just from the old days of when guys when that was a main cartridge. But you the bigger the better, The bigger the better with with bear because they are a

big animal. You do want to hit them hard. Uh. You know, my gun of choice currently for black bear rifle the choice thin mag with a two five grand bullet out of my my best of the West rifle. But I did want to just clarify that a lot of the delicate things that we're talking about in terms of shot placement for black bear does include is about

archery hunting, not as much about about rifle hunting. But hey, closing comments or thoughts, run um, let me ask you a question, what would you say would be the biggest mistake that you have seen First time bear hunters are just inexperienced bear hunters make on shot placement. Biggest mistake. You know, bears aren't like dear people are excited to finally you know, Hey, I've got a bear here in front of me, and you know it's in range. I

need to hurry up and get take the shot. Bears are pretty patient, you know, especially on a baited hunt. You can wait and wait and wait for that perfect shot. You don't have to be in a rush. You know, a lot of people want to take that first shot opportunity, just to wait for the right shot. You know, Um, I've made mistakes and you know, not made the right shot. But you know it's all about patients. But I guess

you know, it just comes with experience. So um more bears you get a chance to be around and and harvest, you'll learn from that and take it to the next hunt. But like I said, just be patient, wait for the right shot opportunity. Yeah, you don't have to be in any hurry. That's a that's a great example because in white tail hunting, most of the time you have a very short window to execute a shot on a big buck.

I mean, like take the first shot you get, you know what I mean, Like, that's a that's a good ethical shot. That's that's kind of the way we're preached to because most time these animals are just moving through areas that we're hunting. But especially on a baited hunt or even on a spring, a spring hunt, when a bear is feeding out in the meadow, you got time. If that animal is feeding, he's gonna be there for

a while, so you don't have to rush it. So you're number one thing when the first time bear hunter, new bear hunter would be rushing the shot. Yeah, yep, yeah, you know I'm basing that on hunting over a bait where the bears occupied. You know, like you said, not passing through, You're gonna have some time to especially if the winds right and he don't know you're around, You've you've got a little bit of time to play with and I could say, the right opportunity to present itself. Yeah,

very good, Kobe. What do you think? I mean, those are the things that Corey told us or told me whenever I went up there. It was just, you know, to be patient and make the right shot. And we were patient, I mean watching, We watched that bear for a while and the right opportunity was there. Um. I think one of the things that happened I didn't realize he was he was moving, you know, and so I think what happened was I was looking through the peep like once I should close my other eye and just

like focused on him. I couldn't tell that he was moving, you know, because it was the right opportunity. He just started moving right at the wrong time. So you probably hit right where you're aiming. He just wasn't in the same spot he moved. Yeah. Well, and I think that's a good thing to to think about, is that once you initiate that shot cycle, you've got to be super flexible.

I mean, your shot cycle has to be quick. And when I say shot cycle, I mean like draw your bow and from the time you make the decision to shoot until the time you actually execute the shot, you need to be able to back out of it, you know. I mean like because in that situation, you were like, Okay, I'm gonna shoot, and then two seconds time he moved, you know, and you went ahead and shot, you know.

And I think that I think that's just learning being in bow hunting situations in archery and executing the shot, you know, which is in anybody could have made that mistake. But yeah, I think, uh, I I had been drawn back for a while. I think that if if in the future, like whenever I get an opportunity or I think I have one, I think I'm gonna just you know, if I'm drawn back for too much time, just let it down, just reassessed, you know what. The that being said.

My strongest trait, I think when it comes to actually taking an animal, especially with a compound bow, is knowing when to draw. And I love drawing before they get there. I mean, like I like doing what you did. Yeah, I felt like you did the right thing. I mean like the bear was just at any second gonna step into a correct shooting position. So you were drawn and ready.

Now once you start holding it for over a minute or something, yeah, I mean like if you start to fill your body be compromised and like, yeah, you should have let you you can let down that situation. But like, the biggest thing that I see people do is like a deer bear is coming and they wait till it's in position to shoot before they draw their bow. Man,

I draw. I'm not talking about like draw a minute before it gets there, but I'm anticipating the shot, drawn and ready, and boy when it steps to where I want to shoot, shoot, And that's probably more a white tail thing because a lot of times they're moving and but hey, we're gonna we're gonna end this podcast. I hope that you've learned something here, and uh, yeah, you know, ultimately our goal is to make as many good, ethical,

quick killing shots as possible. And uh, bears are big, tough, unforgiving animals, but when they're hit right, they go down easy. And so hey, guys, thanks for being on the podcast, and we're gonna have we're gonna continue, We're gonna have a few more podcasts that are kind of this style where we're just talking about a specific issue. Hey, keep the wild places wild? Why keep us for the bears? Good