Canoe Wrecks and Judging Big Whitetails

a living journal of your properties that you hunt. Now, what's great about this it can be used on a small scale, let's say like a forty acre farm, or like we did on our muleteer hunt out West, this thirty three thousand acre big chunk of public ground. It can allow you to document everything that you've seen on there as well glassing points where the mule deer we're

coming in and out, and so much more. If you want to find out more about the functionality of Onyx, visit onyx maps com and for first time users, you can use the discount code Nation twenty off. My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into the world of hunting the icon of the North American wilderness to bear. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation, but will also bring you into some of the wildest country on the planet

chasing affair. This is a part of the podcast where I usually say I want to draw your attention to and I point you to some reputable business. I'm not gonna say that this time, but I am gonna say, check out our new hats on at Bear Dash Hunting dot Com. We're coming out with a new Flashy Hats series and we've got a hat that says bear Grease, hat that says flashy Mule, and a hat that says bared Dogs. So really colorful hats, their patch hats. They're uh,

They're they're really cool. Check it out at bear Dash Hunting dot Com in our store. Secondly, you hear me talk a little bit about b h A on this podcast. UH. Check out back Country Hunters and Anglers Organization. These guys are doing good stuff. I don't care what anybody says we Uh. On this podcast, I talked about how that responses to the Florida bear hunting situation came in from back country Hunters and Anglers guys using their forum to

send an email to the officials. That was a form letter that said we support bear hunting and uh so check out back country Hunters and Anglers. Lastly, this is another podcast where we're talking about uh white tail hunting up in Manitoba, Canada with Tom Ainsworth grand View Outfitting. I'm with my really good old time friend Chris Roberts, so we we kind of reminisce a little bit and tell a couple of stories, one fun story in particular from our past. But we talked a ton about hunting

with Tom. Check out Tom Ainsworth. Man, I'm shooting myself in the foot because if I go back, I'm sure there's gonna be more people hunting up there. But Tom is the real deal when it comes to Canadian white tail hunting. It's a lot more affordable than you think. So check out grand View Outfitting called Tom Ainsworth. It's probably a lot more doable than you think for big Canadian white tail. Okay, all right, Kobe, we're starting a podcast. Now,

can copy hear us? He's the he Colby Old Kobe produces the podcast, So can he hear us right now? I mean, he can't he can't hear us right now, but when he listens to this hell here, Colby's omnipresent. Well, I was just like, this is amazing. If Colby can hear us, Colby, can you hear us? Colby, can you hear us? I was like, we can't get the headphone store, but Colby can hear us. Oh man. We are on our way back from Canada and we just we've been deer hunting up in Canada, and I've got my longtime

friend Chris Roberts with me. Um, Chris, we've known each other since grade school. Yeah, I was trying to think about that the other day. I think it's at least second grade. Well, I mean you you started school at the school I went to in kindergarten, right, Yeah you were, Yeah, so you were a year older and I was a year older than you. So I mean we would have known each other, but my first memories of us being friends were maybe not real good friends, but pretty good

playground friends. Um, we're in uh in grade school? Yeah, I went over to your house in grade school. Yeah. Yeah, Well okay, first things first, Chris, we're gonna on this pod podcast. We're gonna talk about your deer hunt in Manitoba, Canada. We're gonna talk about that, but we're also going to talk about some other stuff and there's a few, just

like housekeeping things that we gotta get going. Okay, First thing is, I just got a text from one of the back country hunters and anglers and members down in Florida, Jim Hasley, And so right now they're revamping and taking public input for the bear management program for Florida. So and I want to say twenties sixteen, it could have

been fifteen. There was a bear hunt institute in Florida, which was the first one in a long time because the bears are growing, numbers are strong, and they did that. They did a three quota and they met the quota in a very short period of time. But because Florida has such an urban population and just it kind of is the way it is, they protested it big time.

And because of political political influence, basically the game and Fish kind of backed off of the bear hunt and said they were going to close it down for a certain period of time until they could do some study on it to see what, um, you know, how they were going to go forward to manage it, which basically it was a political move by them to not get pounded by the anti hunters. So right now and they're taking a public period of comment for just people to

write into the government. Well, Jim told me that there have been thirty two hundred responses. This is what the Fish and Wildlife told b h A guys, And twenty one of those responses have been from b h A members, back country hunters and English and so right now on there's a link on the Bear Hunting Magazine uh facebook page, but there'll be links in other places. But basically back

country Hunters and anglers. They're good at organizing people. So you can go in through their portal and basically send an email to the wildlife officials with a statement about how we believe that these bears should be managed by regulated hunting, scientific base wildlife management, you know, through hunting. It's a positive thing. And so anyway, we're doing good down there, but we need to pound them some more. Let me ask you a question, does it matter if

you live in Florida or not? Apparently not, because I submitted a public comment and it and it went through well. And that makes sense because Florida is really big on especially with their fishing too. You know, they because they did actually public comments with like shark fishing and shore fishing with that and uh because I had a buddy who was going to go to that and so that actually makes a lot of sense. So they do a lot of uh, you know, people coming from out of

states fishing. So I don't know how much they promote that with hunting, but I could see they're kind of set up for that. So we're doing good. We're doing good, but we need to we need to keep patting them. So we'll put we'll put a link um on this web page on the on our podcast notes where people can go and easily so you don't have to put in your information. Uh maybe you do have to put in your email, but you it's easy to do. That's

point number one. Okay, Now onto business at hand, Chris. Okay, we've been road dripping for By the end of this thing, it's gonna be like, uh, thirty six hours together. Okay. And so the other day on the radio or well on your playlist, came up this song called dB Cooper, dB Cooper, Tell me what you know about D B. Cooper? Tell me the story worry of d B. Cooper. I'll do my best. Um, and so I and I and I well, and first off too, I mean this is

we were just talking about this. You know, I've I've been, you know, trying to stay up with Clay as long as I can. And you know, he mentioned he had a podcast, and he sends me all of his videos and stuff, and I was like, and I love podcasts. I was like, you have a podcast? And I had no right before this podcast, Chris realized that I had a podcast. Yeah, and and and sinks man. Thanks Bro, no it it. I mean he sends me his videos and all this, and yeah, if I hadn't known he

had a podcast, I would have that. So you only listen to the stuff that I sent you. Well, I didn't know. How would I have known you had a I don't google Clay Nukelem. Oh you don't. I'm not, you know, I mean that would be weird. Well, welcome to the podcast, bro. Well, thank you, and now now you're going to get a few more subscribers. Um. But anyway, and I'm glad you you like the story. My my girlfriend wasn't as interested that I love her to death,

but anyway, so it um, this story. I found out about this story and I was telling you is Unsolved Mysteries. That was a show I used to catch. We're taking it way back, yeah, I mean early nineties. I mean the host of that, I believe his name was like Robert Stack. And I apologize for anyone if if I'm not getting the correct version of this, but I'll do as best as I can. So this stacts don't really

matter on this podcast. Okay, good. So this gentleman, as best as I can remember, he he hijacks the plane, um and he I want to say, he hijacked it in Seattle, somewhere in the northwest correct. Um. And he told me this story the other day, like you were the authority on dB Cooper. Well, that's what I expect.

It's so he will. So he writes this ransom. So he goes to the stewardess and he get hands her her letter and he asked for two hundred He says, I have a bomb, and he asked for two hundred thousand dollars, which this was in the seventies, so this that was a lot of money back there. And he signed it dB Cooper, and he also said he wanted I don't remember how many parachutes, but at least two parachutes. Two parachutes, yeah, and um. And so anyway, they they

the FBI actually gives him the money. They marked the bills. So he hijacked the plane somehow on the ground, and they they gave him the money, and they gave him the parachute right. I don't know if they landed in Seattle from like Portland or anyway, maybe hijacked him in the air, landed the plane right or it might have

been as they're taken off. Um. But anyway, and so they give him the money and the parachutes, and he keeps the stewardess on there and the pilots and and they know that he knew enough about it to to fly the plane, or knew enough about planes to know that this type of plane that you could fly it with the ladder down. And he he he asked supply pilot to take off with the I guess the ladder

the steps down, and they wouldn't do it. And so uh, they take off and they get up at a certain altitude, and all of a sudden, the pilot realizes that he's lowered the steps m and is this plane full of people. Know, he's let the people off. This was a okay, this is a commercial flight, but it had people on it to begin with. And they gave him them. I guess dB had a soft heart or something. Well, you know, they gave him the money. So that was the deal. You give me the money, I'll let the people go.

And he kept the pilot well he he, well he was. He was telling him he was flying down to somewhere towards Mexico or something. And so he jumped like a fool proof. Yeah, he jumps out parachutes out. Well, the weather was not very cooperative for parachuting, like like according from what I remember, it's like very few people at this altitude in this weather would live through it. And so he jumps and um and so the FBI like searched for him for days and days and never found him.

They found so one of those parachutes, and this was not done intentionally, was actually a dummy parachute. Now, how could the FBI unintentionally give him a dummy parachute? It actually the FBI didn't give it to him. It was the local uh uh, the local like the local local airport or it was the local like training facility. And so they had a dummy. Yeah, they got it well, and he grabbed it. He just grabbed it and didn't know. Yeah,

and and and so it was given on accident. And so they found that they found the dummy parachute right then on the ground right, didn't find the original parachute.

And then like a year later or two years later, on the whatever that one of the the major river is over by Portland, they found, Now, none of those marked bills were ever spent really, yeah, but they found some buried by one of those rivers over a kid was playing with his family and they found Now it could have been just buried like they ended, like they flew out because that's kind of over by that path. Somehow they got right. But and so the FBI claims

he died um. But but they never found dB Cooper. Never never found dB Cooper. Now, Wow, So so I I you know, I think he made it. Yeah, dB, if you're out there now, I think he would be retty old right now, you'd be. So why this story is relevant is unclear at this time. But we, uh, it's a good song. But we yeah, so we were listening to that song road tripping to Manitoba going up here to hunt. But I was I was pretty Uh, I was pretty fascinated by that story. I've never heard

of it. So yeah, search for the song DBI Cooper. The live versions a lot better live version dB Cooper. Um, So Chris and I. Chris was always my buddy back in high school that was always ready to go. I mean back in high school, you really weren't that serious of a hunter. I mean, you grew up hunting your dad. You hud it with your dad. You were big fisherman, you were you were probably maybe maybe not a better fisherman than me, but um, but you were always ready

to go. So we we coon hunted a lot. We we did. We probably fished more than we did anything. Yeah, but we did. We did coon hunt quite a bit. But there's one story that it's kind of iconic that happened between us that we gotta tell, and that's that's the story of the canoe. Yeah. I mean it kind of shaped our lives, it did, and we did a lot of stuff together. I always had a pretty tight curfew. But my mom if I was going out with Clay, and I don't know why, but she would say you

didn't have a curfew. She trusted me cur she did. Well, no I know why, but but she did. And so I mean we, I mean we we did a lot of stuff together. I mean we spent time, you know, going up on the mountain that's our our local mountain, and you know, I mean we and so, you know, we grew up in a small town and you know, there wasn't much to do except getting trouble or be outside. And Clay always liked being outside and so any time I had too. But what he's talking about, do you

want me to start that story? Yeah, So, so this is the way I remember it. I was nineteen, you were eighteen. I was my first year in college. But I was coming home for whatever reason. And I think it was a Saturday, and it was in the spring, so I remember early summer. And there was just a massive, just a downpour, uh you know, like a flash flood type situation, and uh, you know, it probably rained three inches in a couple of hours or something, so that

these little creeks had just swollen up. And my dad had an old canoe, just an old beat up canoe that leaked. It was a fibery glass canoe. With like an aluminum frame on the inside, and it had been he bought it from an old canoe outfitter somewhere on the Washtaw River down there, and it was just sitting at their house and uh, I think we Yeah, I'm not sure if the canoe got the name. No, we

had called it Old Glory. Okay. We had duct taped the leaks on this canoe and we had fished out of it, and we had also spray painted a shark's face on the front. I can remember when that happened. You're right, that canoe and the other thing. We called it Old Glory. Yeah. And this creek that we had gone by half jokingly, we had always said when it flooded, we're going to canoe that. I don't think we ever

intended to. Well. I remember I came on from college and I called you and I said, Chris, the creek is rolling and because it was all my drive back to my parents house, and you said, I'll be there in thirty minutes, and so you came to my house. We had one paddle. We did not have a life jackets, and we used my dad's old He had a big hiking stick that we had carved out of a hickory, and he was mad at me for losing It's a good stick. It was a good stick. It was stupid

for me to use it. But so we took that stick a paddle and we put in and I told my mom my. I told my mom, I said, Mom, I don't know where we're gonna end up, but we're gonna call you when we get there, and you're gonna

come pick us up. And she agreed to this. I mean, this was before our cell phones, and we were we were just planning to take that canoe as far as we could or wanted to, and we were just gonna walk up to somebody's house and say, can we use your phone to call someone to come pick us up? And I mean, was that not the plan? Yeah, that's the way I remember it. And I don't know how it is. And I don't know your where your listeners are.

But you know, in Arkansas where we are in a lot of places in the South, you know, when it rains and we get one to two inches in an hour, I mean it floods, and we get those yeah, we get those low water bridges, and so I mean these small creeks and so it was yeah, and so we were going but I mean we thought we were gonna be fine. And we had a leaky canoe named Old

Glory that it well. So so we put into the creek and we're going down the creek and in the first hundred yards we flipped her over and we were able to stand in that it was but yeah, the creek was pretty small at that point. This creek ran into a bigger creek. We we uh, we flipped the canoe in a bunch of brush that we got tangled in, and I just remember we just flipped it back over, dumped some of the water out, and we just kept going. The canoe is filling up with water, like it's probably

full of water. When we hit when Briar Creek meets Prairie Creek, and Prairie Creek was a big creek and it got really wide and it was kind of smooth, and we pulled over to the side and dumped out and we thought this is kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah, I just remember when we when the creek merged into the bigger creek. I mean it was like, oh it was there were big waves and the creek was probably forty fifty yards wide and just just ran out, chocolate milk ran out into the woods. I mean it was

a straight up flood. And here we are. And when we hit the Big Creek, I remember just saying we were in the chips. Well, we we ride for probably a quarter mile down the Big Creek and it crosses a low water bridge and we crossed this low water bridge and there's cars on either side of the low water bridge. There's a two tone duly backing up. Yeah, there was a big truck that was not wanting to cross.

I mean, there's no way they would have crossed. They would have for sure washed down the stream if they would have crossed. But there was there was people flag waving us down like don't do it, don't do it, And here we come. I thought they were waving at us like high, and so I waved to them as we went across it. I remember you could hear them.

So the water was so high above of the bridge and the water was sucking down into the culverts like it wasn't a continuous flow, so it was coming and you would just hear wolf and I mean it was it was just this this force. But at that time we still didn't know what we were getting. We were we were This truly was one of the most foolish things that ever did. And it just shows the lack of awareness and in in we would have drowned, swamped

before the bride. The fear of God inside of me and honestly, the a deep, deep respect for fast moving water. I still still have a respect for fast yes, yeah, and my kids have a respect for fast moving water because of this story. So we we come across this low water bridge and I mean, we're the waters roaring over this bridge, and when it when it crosses the bridge, the creek spreads out and like gets into the woods.

Like so we're I mean there's like big big trees coming up out of the water, and we kind of miss miss our the middle of the channel and we get the canoe into the woods part and I remember we t boned a tree and it flipped a canoe. And that's where I actually got that scrape on my side was hitting that tree because I got you by it. You didn't even have a paddle, you had a stick, and so you were just pushing and whatever, and so I backed back paddled and and got you buy it.

And then it just hit my shoulder and I gotta and it just dumped the canoe. Well, I was able to hold, so the canoe then is flipped over totally but floating. I'm holding onto the canoe. The water is so deep we can't touch the bottom. I remember coming up out of the water and thinking, where's Chris, And so I started looking around and I cannot see you.

And I'm looking over my left shoulder, holding on the canoe with my right hand, and all of a sudden, I see Chris's wet head pop up out of the water. That's what I remember. And we were still like I was still not afraid. I immediately knew what was going. I immediately was scared. I almost want to say, you were like laughing. I think I'm serious. At that point, I still just thought this is not that big a deal. There was a cedar tree and underwater that I remember

it hitting on my sins. Yeah, And I had on like high top shoes, and I remember thinking if my shoes get caught in this, I'm I'm I'm gone, you know, because like like I remember because it was it was you know, it was it was. And I remember seeing it the next day too, and so that cedar tree was hitting my sins, and and I remember thinking, you know, and I didn't know. Maybe I knew it was a

cedar tree. I I don't know. I just remember there was a tree hitting my like I could feel it just scratching my shins, and I was I was so scared my shoes were gonna get caught up in it. And and I remember, I honestly, I think I remember you kind of giggling, not giggling, but laughing. And I remember thinking to myself, like because and I think that was because you were still holding onto the canoe. I had no canoe. And I remember just thinking I was

a a baby. The amount of I mean, it was like, okay, water, do with me what you will. Yeah, we we were out of control and we didn't know it. Well. What happened was as I look up in about fifty yards downstream, there is a giant dead oak tree that was had fallen down that like I remember it being a really big log. It was huge. Yeah, like a huge tree had fallen down into the water. And I thought, well, when the canoe comes up against that tree, it's it's

just gonna kind pin up against the tree. I'll be able to climb up on the tree. So this tree, there's water going around it, there's water going under it, there's water going over it, but it's still on top of the water. And so you know it's it's impeding the flow. But the river is on either side of this tree by a long shop. But so I'm just holding on the canoe and I think, well, when the canoe hits the tree, it'll stick. Well, when the canoe

hit the tree. And now by by this time, Chris, you had already been you beaten where Yeah, I was still behind you because I saw that. I saw what happened. Yeah, I was still behind you. Well, the canoe basically got sucked under in a flat It was this. It was like a piece of trash flesh down a toilet. Just that fourteen foot canoe, aluminum frame, fiberglass, just absolutely disappeared. Gone. And I'm holding onto that canoe, and so I disappear.

And I remember thinking Clay's dad. And I mean that sounds like I'm being funny, but I remember thinking, well,

Clay's dad, and I'm about to hit that too. So you were coming up against the log two, but you were out of the main current that I was and that I was thinking about this on the way up here, is because I just hit the where you went down, just hit it with my feet and my arms hit the root base and I grabbed onto that, and and then you were I mean, you can tell that how you want, but I still can't believe how fast you made it up on that. But I don't know why

I didn't get more of a pull on me. I guess it was like you were saying, it's just I didn't hit that main current. Yeah, I think you were just outside of it, you know, just being outside of it five or six ft. But I remember being sucked under the water and just water pressing down. I mean, it just felt like somebody was just pushing my head under the water. And for the first time ever in my life and the only time since then, I I thought this is what it feels like to die. I

really thought that. I thought this is what it feels like to drown. And it wasn't because I was sucking in water or something or or it wasn't even because it was that long. It was just because the force of the water the canoe. I just thought this is how it didn't I had enough time to think about And this sounds corny, but it is just true. Is I had enough time to think, somebody's gonna call my

mother and tell her that I'm dead. I thought that because when we left, we told my mom, we're gonna call you, and I had the time to think, someone will call my mother and tell her that I'm dead. Well, I all I remember, and and it was, honestly, it was. It was just the grace of God. I remember reaching my arm up out of the water and there was a limb or root or something that I grabbed onto and was able to pull myself up out of it and crawl up on the log. I just know you

made it out of the water very fast. Yeah, I mean I was. I was like, and you were still pinned up against the log down on the other side. Yeah. And and I remember later you questioned this and it but and then you made me question it. But there was I swear in that root bed there was the water. But well, that's what you said, because when I popped up on the log, you said, there's a snake, get up here, and I'm like, Clay, there's a water boxing

right here. And so then you're you're honestly pulled off a limb and it's hitting the root bead and it it just slithered on into the root bed and so I had to climb over where it was and it didn't do anything. But I remember, yeah, I mean you're like okay, and just went to work breaking off branches and being to scare it off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that. So we got up there, Chris on the root ball, and do you remember what we did? I remember when we I think what you're talking about. It

was before we got up on the root ball. It was after we got I think it was after we climbed up a little bit. We prayed, Yes we did, Yeah, we we. So now we're safe on this law and we're trying to figure out how we're gonna get out of this river. And we were scared to death. I was scared, and yeah, a little bit of scared and relieved because I mean, if we had to, I think we could have sat there until it went. Yeah, I mean it was well, I don't know, well, I remember

we prayed. Remember just thank God that we were alive, because I I've I honestly have since the knocking knock on wood I have not felt that helpless. Yeah, I mean the power of water that much force. Um, well, it was well, and you still you questioned me on us to the limb. We climbed out on it. Then that night we had we had really high winds, and we went back to look at the canoe and that limb had fallen. There was a big limb about as big around as a I don't know, it's probably fourteen inches.

A big limb of this oak was hanging out over a piece of dry It was it was dead. It was dead. And we inched our way out on that and dropped about twelve feet to the bank and walked out. And I'll give you props because you went first, because you had to go over that over the water to get to land, and you went first and it held you and you dropped and I went second, and we dropped. And then the next day we came back and it

would have had it broke off. And that I swear that what we did is we walked to the nearest house, which just happened to be somebody we knew, do you remember Mrs Graves, Yeah, and one of our old school teachers. And uh, we didn't call my mom, though, we called our other buddy to come pick us up. I don't remember why we did that, but we called we called our buddy. But so that was an iconic story that really just taught me to have respect for for it

was just stupid at least. Yeah, it was just everything about it was stupid. Did you know that I had another significant water experience once in Alaska? I mean just it has just been the last few years. No, you don't listen to bear any magazine podcast, you probably wouldn't know. No, but I've had them coming the e er man and

they it's not pretty. Once, while I was in Alaska in a boat and bear hunting, I had a me and the guide got clotheslined by a limb, a log that was hanging out over the water while we were riding up the lake, up the river, and it it. I was in the front of a fourteen foot John

boat with a jet motor. I was standing in front of that boat with my back turned looking back the way we'd come, so I wasn't looking in front of me, and oh man, those Alaskan rivers are littered with just logs and root balls, and they're treacherous and Uh, that tree just clothesline me. And all I saw, all I know is I did two full flips in that boat. And I was back at the motor fourteen foot John boat and I was my head was by the motor of the john boat and the guide was in the

back driving the john boat. And when I come to he is in the water. He's wearing waiters and this is icy cold Alaskan river and I see him bobbing up and down in the river, and I grabbed a stick and just dive it into the bank. Whow you know, just damn just crashing into the bank just to make it stop. And he comes floating by me, bobbing, and he's wearing waiters. I mean, so he's in in. The

water was fast, but it was not deep. I mean it was probably chest deep, but moving fast, and he was able to just kind of just roll his way to the bank, and you know, he popped up forty yards downstream, and uh, but he all is all our technology, well his communication technology got messed up getting wet and stuff. But yeah, that was another thing that put that ruined that hunt for me. That was Date seven hunt, and it just took the steam out of me just yeah,

it really did. It scared me and I was just it it actually again, it put the fear of God in me. I mean, just have you seen those those really small life vests that are instantaneous inflatable. Huh. Yeah, you should look into those when you're up there with those. I mean they're like they're like waste belts and you can just yeah, they wear them like fishing and like we'd wear them when we were sailing and stuff. Yeah yeah, I mean, I mean they're pretty expensive, but I mean

they it's something like that. I would want one. Yeah. Well, hey, I didn't mention Chris Roberts. My buddy Chris Roberts is a medical doctor. Have you ever have you ever dealt with anybody in the er? Uh, from any kind of hunting related accident? Some more. Fishing, you get a lot of fish hooks, fish hooks. Pretty good at taking fish hooks out, Yeah, I mean that's pretty easy. The worst one I saw was a fish hook right in the middle of an eye. Oh really? Yeah? Did you have

to take that out? Know that one was flown to a children's center, so you looke it and you just said take this guy surgery. I don't know. Yeah, how old a person was its teens? Really did was it him or his brother or it was? Yeah? They right in the middle of his eye, right through the Yeah the good part of that. Do you think he lost his sight? Probably? Did he really? Probably? What? What? What? Well? You probably can't well. So a lot of fishing related acts,

no hunting related acts, I'm sure I have. I'm trying to think. Um, I mean a lot of times when it I mean literally, I mean I worked the job I do to take AWF a lot during hunting. Um, But I mean you do get I mean I have had some gunshot wounds, but those are usually hunting related, not hunting related. No, And you know most of the uh you know, when would you think most of the knife wounds are when most of what most of the like knife knife wounds are like when people cut themselves

with knives. But I don't know. Christmas morning, Oh is that right? Almost every every I've worked a lot of Christmas Is and kids will come in opening presents and cut themselves. Yeah, and so I get to have a little spill with them about Yeah, a little safety talk with Dr Roberts saying, hey, kids, you know, be careful with them. But that's that's pretty common to see kids on Christmas morning. That's crazy. Well, tell me a little bit about your hunting, Chris. So, like, growing up, you

were definitely exposed to hunting. I mean, your dad was a hunter, but you were not a big serious hunter until later and you know, probably when you were in your late twenties maybe. Yeah, my dad really loved hunting, and he did a lot of actually bird hunting, uh, you know, before we lost the queil in Arkansas, um, and then you know, he was a forest ranger in Mississippi, and so he he really loved turkey hunting and and was you know, did a lot of deer hunting and stuff.

And so when I when I was a kid, I really loved hunting and wanted to hunt. Um. And so, uh, my dad had kind of give up hunting just you know, I mean it was kind of I don't know, it had gotten to be just you know, it was you know, it just it gotten to be too busy for him. Like I don't know, it wasn't too busy. I don't know how to say it, but it was, you know,

he just didn't pursue it real hard. Writer in life right later in life, and and so he still loved fishing, and so I mean we fished, you know, in high school. We were there fishing or shooting basketballs and so. Um. So I really had you know, kind of I mean, he he would take me hunting and we would go hunting. But I had to be very persistent. But it wasn't till you, after you got out of med school that he started hunting a lot. Is that right? Until I

started pushing it? Um. Yeah, And so you know, he he didn't bow hunt a lot, and so I had to you know, getting back with you was where I started bow hunting a lot. And then you know, there are a lot of people in med school that that hunt a lot, but for me, it was it would have been difficult. And so in medical school, I without being tuned into it, it would have been hard for

me to yeah, to start that up. Well. One of the one of the things that that was fun for me to see is that what year did you kill the buck? We called gladiator? Uh? I think? Okay, So Chris contexts me, and you've lived in a different town than me. I mean, I haven't seen you in probably five or six years. To be honest, it's been what if we had it just been hit and mess and and you said, hey, I'm coming to Arkansas. I want

to come see you lived in Arkansas. Okay, well you're coming northwesterna And uh, I don't remember how it happened, but I said, well we'll come up here. And well, no, no, no, I gave I l I lent you my bow. Yeah, we shot, we shot at my house. You liked it. You said, I'm wanting to get into bow hunting. And I said, well, hey, just take this bow and just you know, shoot it for a season and if you

like it, you can buy bow. And so it was that Matthews d x T well season came around and I said, well, why once you come for the weekend and we'll hunt. And you had never killed a deer with a bow at that time. And I took you to a farm over there that I hunt a lot, and I said, Chris, shoot the first. There's no shame in this. We'll tell the short version. I said, shoot the first deer that you see. And what I'm learning is that if I tell something to Chris, he does it,

I do. And the first year he saw he shot and it was a small deer, very small, but it was a young dough medium dog. It was a great uh, it's great eating. So there's no shame in that. I had to kind of talk him through that after I ribbed him a little bit. But it was your first bow kill, though, Yeah, you literally looked up. Well, yeah, I had to to two kills and one day. Man, that was a heck of a day. So we after he killed that dough, well, we went hunting that afternoon

over by my house. And uh, I was taking a buck pretty serious in a certain place and and that I had another spot and I put Chris there and I said, hey, there was also a big buck in there. And I didn't want you shooting a dough and that's going in there and kind of messing it up. So I said, I said, you killed a deer this morning. You got some meat. I said, I'm gonna put you in this spot and the own didn't. I say, the only deer I want you to shoot is this this

big bucket. Well, there was there was a there was a call. There there was a call to call. It wasn't a call, I mean, it was just it was deer like that, but it was a it was a deer that that you know wasn't the most attractive deer. And then there was two smaller bucks that that you said, I couldn't you know that that you wanted to wait

until next year. And then there was gladiator. So in this gladiator buck was a big ten point with kickers, and he was okay, well it was a ten point with a kicker, so main frame ten with one kicker. And to be honest, I didn't think that deer was gonna show up. I didn't think you had a chance in the world with seeing that deer. I know, I figured that. I wasn't trying to put you in the girl. I was just being honest with you. I mean, I

was like, I'm gonna go hunt this. I couldn't take people on this other property I was going to, so I put you on a property that I could take people to. And uh man, I'll be dang if it like four o'clock I get a text from you. But we got poured on poor and rain. Yeah, poor and rain. And you say, glad I shot that big buck. I said, I think I shot that big buck. I couldn't believe it. Yeah, I couldn't believe it. And then it was poor and

rain when you shot it. And basically we didn't fight until the next day after I had to leave to go on a bear hunt. Spent hours looking for going for hours and hours by yourself because I had to leave. He found the buck, was gonna give up. I said, this is a true story, I said, and I am not exaggerating. I said, I am gonna walk this one more time. And I, you know, I kind of, you know, I sat down and said, all right, you know, God, if you want me to find this buck, it's your will.

And I said and I and I kind of sat down too, and I said, you know, I'm gonna look at this and see where where would I go if I was a deer, which was kind of corny, but it's you know, I was gonna walk to And I said, I'm gonna walk this in one more time and then I'm done. And I walked it one And this is never half tried this many a time before, was looking

for a deer. That's never worked. I mean I tried it, you know, I have tried it recently, but and and walked it and walk it back where we had walked numerous times and looked over and there he was. Yeah, and and I honestly did not think he was. I mean, yeah, I mean, it was it was, it was it was a perseverance. It was you know, it wasn't the best shot. I mean, it was a good shot. Take it. He was, you know, I just you know, I mean he was

a yeah. Yeah, I hit him back, but I mean it wasn't like I took a bad shot broadside twenty yards. I just second deer. Yeah, And uh, well, and that was a really awesome experience for for both of us, and it kind of it kind of united us in a hunting sense because it was I mean, that was a good deer for for where we're hunting, and uh, you know, two deer in the same day and that kind of got you going bow hunting. And since then

you've done it all on your own. Yeah, I mean you've you've Chris has lived all in several different places in the country, talking in to put me on one again over there, but yeah, you try every year. I sent him a picture and he goes, is that the deer you're gonna put me on? Um? But that's why we went to Canada together, right, What a perfect segue. Yeah, So we we're we're on our way back from Manitoba, Canada,

and uh so we've already done a podcast. We talked about, uh my hunt, but I want to talk about Chris's hunt, because Chris learned a lot coming into this hunt, coming into Canada. Uh. We we talked a lot about judge and deer. We talked about a lot about what to expect, and uh, why don't you just go ahead and started off Chris just talking about well experience and kind of

what happened. Well, first of all, I mean, I want to thank you again for taking me up here and it you know, it is it has been an amazing experience. And and you know, and that's and that's one thing too, is and you did you did bring up a good point is as I did learn a lot, and I you know, I did kill it a deer that was not as big as a deer that I intended on killing. But I'm still you know, you know, happy with that deer. But you know it it it the learning curve is

pretty steep. It is steep. But but one thing you said is is I learned a lot, but you learn a lot by doing by hunting. Um And that's you know. And that's one thing is is you know, I wish that I had, you know, a long time ago been doing the stuff right now, because you know, you just got to go out and do it and learn and and and it's like, you know, with the muzzleloader and using that. That was my first time to use a muzzleoader because I'm so into bows and it. You know,

it's learning muzzleoaders. And now it's like, you know, and from using that and and and so much. But anyway, so with my hunt, um, you know, Clay had been talking a lot and and maybe you know, he had been emphasizing how these bucks can be difficult to judge um and they are. Um. And part of that One of the things we're looking for up here is and and this is one of the things that Tom Are,

our outfitter, was talking about, was mass. Yeah, um and uh and then and so you're looking at that, but you're also looking at extremely large deer, even body large body even on two deer over two hundred pounds for sure. What you mean when you say mass is that that is that's kind of like the thing that if a deer does not have good mass all the way out on the horn, he's probably not a mature animal here. Now in Arkansas, you can kill a spinding e ract

big buck, that's probably a mature animal. UM Mass is a good indicator of age in most places, but up here that's what these The Duck Mountains of southern Manitoba has its mass and it's not necessarily known for world record scores, even though there's some incredible scoring deer. And it's only we were hunting sixty miles from where Milo Hanson killed the world record. So I mean not to say that there's not a giant deer up here, but

but they're known for mass, So carry on. It's just want to qualify what you said, right, And so you know, my first day I went out and hunted and and did not see it was kind of one of those spots and that's hunting, and it was kind of it was at a spot that it's called the swamp and didn't see anything. You didn't see it here the first uh, which I mean, I really wasn't that upset about because it was kind of Tom and told me it's the spot where you don't see a lot, but a lot

of times when you do. Um. You know, it's it could be that spot. There's no food source or anything. It literally is just a swamp in between two thick bedding areas, open open swamp with big tall grass, and we're gonna catch them crossing. And it was it was windy and cold. This whole hunt was cold. Um, And so was it the next day that I was setting next morning, the very next morning. The next morning, Um, we went in and we uh uh went out on in afalfa field, and uh, you were hunting on the

other f alfa field. We were both on a I was on sitting on a nine acre flf alfael field and you were sitting on about a fifteen acre flf alfa field. I think, right, wasn't that even that big? Maybe it's eight acres. But apparently they like my feld better, it seemed to this time. Um. But very quickly, you know, I opened up, you know the window I was in, and so we're setting in these little huts. Tom calls them huts, Tom Ainsworth, just a little little box blinds

that are on the ground. And you creep in there before daylight, get in there, and uh, what's crazy is these dear don't even hardly spook off the field. I mean are well, they don't if you creep in there without light, you're not gonna spook deer for the last part, all right. And and to me, I mean, you know, I've done hunts that that are you know, back and where I'm carrying in my tree stand and running and gunning,

and I've done, you know, hunts on private land. And I've done you know, hunts on public land, not as many as you. And you know, I love this just as much. I mean, this is it had its own aspect of it. I'm sitting out there in cold and and you know, and so I mean it's temperature of that morning was three degrees. Yeah, it was. It was extremely cold, and so you know, and so we're we're sitting out there and you know, these some large doughs

started coming out. Um. And then I quickly see a just as the sun starts the sun's coming up, and then I quickly see a buck um. And this was an eight point And so then I I got to start thinking, is this one of these deer we're talking about? Um? And me and Clay had been talking about this as long, and then Tom had also gets some input and and maybe this is where it went wrong and and and it's almost like we had emphasized it too much. And

I think I'll have my take home on it. But one thing that Tom had said was if if it's if it's racks passed his ears, and I remember hearing that. And these deer were out past two hundred yards, um. And so I'm looking at him and and also too, and as you know, but you know, for for your listeners is is these deer. I've never seen dear over two hundred pounds and so these almost looked like cows coming out, um. And so I'm trying to decide, and honestly, and as I told you, I didn't. I thought that

this buck was not what we were looking for. You thought he was not correct. I mean I wasn't for sure. And what we're looking for, we weren't. We There was never a score put on it. You know, last year I killed a buck in Manitoba that it was eighteen inches wide, had five inch bases and good masks all the way up, the antler ten and a half inch

g two's. So I mean this big, massive frame, the buckaway two and forty eight pounds, but it scored a hundred and thirty four inches, and I think one of the coolest deer's, dear, I've seen, and I think one of the the best looking and deer you've killed. Yeah, And so I say that to say, like we people that just think about score, you're gonna get thrown on. I mean, you know, it's not like, Okay, Chris, go out and only shoot a hundred and fifty buck today

like that. You would lose so many killer deer if you did that. And that's that seems to be the way a lot of people think, especially when they're hunting real big buck country, you know, like if you're hunting Iowa, if you're hunting Canada. But man, I'll tell you what, you'll pass a lot of awesome deer. And the truth is that most deer don't score near as much as

what people say they do. I sent that picture of my buck last year, Chris to people that knew better, and I wouldn't tell them what it scored, and they would text me back, and I mean maybe they would being nice, but they were like, man, that's gotta be a hundred and sixty inch, dear. I had knowledgeable people. I think that was a hundred sixty inch and that was a good picture, you know what I mean? And I was like, no, one thirty four and they were like,

no way. But point being is that people, when your buddy says he killed a one fifty, he probably didn't. It's just the truth. Uh So I say all that to say, when you talk about the deer, we were

after a mature buck with good masks. And boy, Tom has some shed antlers and dead heads and pictures of some little deer that are probably fifteen inches wide but massive, mature for and a half five and a half year old deer that just they weren't they well he called he called the deer with tight antlers bush bucks, and he called bucks with big white antlers prairie bucks. Yeah. But so you weren't looking for a one forty year one fifty one six, You're looking for a mature, heavy antler. Yeah.

I wanted a deer that, like he called it, coke cans and something, honestly, And so I was trying to decide if this deer had mass and and and and right, and Tom wasn't trying to throw me off, but I mean it just kind of confused because I wanted something that gave me that concrete. This is it? You were

you were looking for the one thing which has that. Actually, I'll tell you what I think it is, um, and so it Tom said, you know, if it's out past the tears, and he kind of he probably threw in there and it's a mature buck, but I just heard, if it's out past the tears. And so I watched this deer for a while, and then he was he chased a dough and ran off, and there was another one there who who you know, he wasn't out past his ears and might have had more mass. I don't know.

I mean these deer were out pretty far, and UM watched him for a while and they had gone over the heel and they were feeding and and and then like I said, he had ran back in closer, and I saw he was clearly as you saw. I mean, he was good what four inches past his years? Yeah, And so I remember thinking, well, you know this deer is so big that his mass look, you know, I con I said, this is what we're after, you know, And so uh he uh um he ran away where I didn't have a shot. And and the other one

that was there I decided was not a buck. That I just I mean, he was an eight point that what wasn't maybe about past his years, but he could have had that mass. I couldn't tell. And so, you know, I'm watching them and then, uh, they're out there feeding and he's chasing around. Well, then this buck comes back over that hill and so I pulled the muzzleloader up and he's right at a hundred and thirty four yards and uh, go to shoot and misfire, and so the

muzzleloader missfires the cap. So we're using four or nine primers to shooting as two two nine. Foord is the cleaner two or nine primers, using the c V A what was accurate l R yeah, CB a Acura l R yeah, and a good gun. Yeah, misfires the cap. The primer goes off, the gun does not night, and then break the gun open and put another primer in correct, find the deer again, pull the trigger. Pop, Yeah, cap doesn't go off. Break the gun down. This is the first time I've ever had it with a muzzle load

or two. Yeah, break the gun down, put another primary in, put it on the deer. And I don't know if I had was it three or four? Well, I thought it misfired three times, and you shot it on the fourth. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I'm pretty sure because I think you did it again. The deer don't move, the deer aren't scared. They don't even look at it, dude. And so I did it again, and it and it goes, it misfires and and I didn't know that this was

even a possibility. And so I goes like, well, I'm done because I had left my ramrod in the truck. I mean this I was, you know, I was cooking with gas this day. I mean, and so I the way I remember it, as I started to lift the gun, so I and then the gun goes off. It was delayed delayed ignition. Theypmare for muslods, right, And the bucket actually moved to like a hundred and fifty four yards. I mean I had a compensated for that. Oh really, So he was moving back? Yeah, okay, and uh it

was actually angling away at that time. But and so I, so I thought there's no way I hit this deer. Yeah, And went and looked for blood and looked for blood and looked for blood and did not find blood. I thought there was no way. I hit this deer. Yeah, and it turns out I did actually hit that deer with a long story, but we found the deer the next day. Yeah, we found the deer the next day. And uh, the deer I mean been eaten to the bone by coyotes within a day. I mean there was

nothing left but horns and ears in one eyeball. Yeah. So that that was. And he was not what I was looking for. Yeah, and that's I mean, he was, you know. I mean, I don't want to take away. I mean, any buck is a you know, yeah, I mean I've I'm proud of any deer I killed. I mean, but this is a trip where I was, you know, traveling looking for Honestly, it was it was. It was a nice probably two year old deer from here, and you know, well and the fact that I didn't get

his meat bothers you know. Oh yeah, you you said from the very beginning, you were like, dude, I'm coming up here to kill a big buck meat. I mean, you want a big orange too, But right, I mean I for me, yeah, yeah, I mean I make summer sausage. I make venison jersey in the deer to give you the deer was at least seventeen inches wide. Yeah, and but you know short times, short brows, short threes. But in uh, in my take home on how you mudge now, so that okay, that's where we're going now is what

did you learn? So my So the next day I went out and set in the same uh said, in the same blind or whatever you wanna call it, hut, and um actually saw one of the coolest things. Um I've well, actually that night I because I thought I had had missed. Oh yeah. And so that night I said on the other um on the alfalfa field that Clay had set on. And as we're going to to um as as dusk is coming on, I hear this what I mean? I thought it was bigfoot? Um, but it was. Yeah, it was a buck roar. It happened

like four times. And and I actually if it would have just happened once, I would not do what it You you can you can try to replicate it goes and it did it four times, sounded just like that. But then it started a really really mature grunt, so you wouldn't have even known it was a deer unless it followed up with this a normal bat. Yeah. Yeah, really mature grunt and it's just cutting through these woods in between. Um. Uh, these two a foul fulfills. But

I mean it's like the first one. I was like, what the heck was I mean, I mean, I really don't believe in Bigfoot, but I might have if it had just happened once. And but it did it four times. And then I mean, I'm pretty sure it was a roar um and then it was just grunting and I

tried to record it on my phone but that didn't work. Um. But then the next morning, I was sitting in the blind where I thought I had missed that buck, and uh, I I walked to it, and I, uh, we actually got in a little earlier that morning, because we kind of barely got in, I mean for the sun, and I opened, you know, the windows in it, and I can just see these blobs out in the field and they're huge blobs and I can't make out what they are. And as the sun and actually I thought I spooked

to coyote beside me. It could have been a small deer. I don't know. Um, but as the sun's coming up, I can you know, I knew they were dear. But as the sun's coming up. I can slowly make them out more and more, and then the one these two to my left. I still I can't make out racks, but I can make out they're fighting, and I can you can see them pushing. You can hear their horns fi and I can hear them just you know, just clacking, and I'm like, oh, that is so cool. I've never

seen bucks fight. And and the light comes up and I, you know, put my bionos on them and they're they're small box and then two and I mean, I'm not making this up. It sounds like I am. And then telling the truth, Chris. Forty yards from that, two other bucks are feeding beside each other, and it's it's like they kind of looked at each other and they said, hey, let's fight. Those guys are fighting. And so they started fighting. And they were about the same size as the other two.

And so they're fighting. And then fifty to sixty yards from that or these huge, massive deer and and I couldn't make them out, and so I start looking at them and I'm like, those are those are big deer. And then as the sun keeps coming up, I look up at them and they start fighting. And so there's three sets of bucks fight, three sets of bucks fighting. How many does are out there? Twelve? It was a rough gas. I mean it, yeah, I mean probably twelve. I just remember when you talk to me, you said

there's twenty deer in front of me. Yeah, So, I mean it was. And and the I remember though, when I saw the two big bucks. And this is my take home point is I looked at him and I and I'm looking through the buyos and I go, oh, this is what they mean by mass And it was.

And so I think my take home is is if you've hunted and you've seen decent deer, you know, good sized deer, and if you're questioning it, then it's probably not and so and and if you see you know, when you see Clay's deer on his video, and that's a gimme. But it's like if it comes out and you're like, oh, that's what they mean, yeah, then you know, yeah, I mean it. And I mean it can be a seven or an eight point and I mean it's I mean, if you're one one fifty, you know you're probably not

gonna get it from that. But to me, it's like, oh, that's what they want. I mean, that's what they mean. And it was just that easy. And so you've got this eight and a ten just out there, and I mean it's just just too dear that just start dwarfing everything else. Yeah, man, I wish I could have seen that with you. I wish wish, Yeah, I wish you could have got some. I mean it's something i'll probably never see again. Well maybe next year, yeah if I

but I'll probably be in that stand next year. Maybe I'll be in the one you've been in. Kill two. I mean I'll take that. Oh man, Well you learned a tone, You've learned a ton and judging these deer. Here, here's my synopsis on judge and these deer, is that you, first of all, you've got to make sure that you're

looking at a mature animal. And I talked about a ten point that I saw on the podcast with Tom, where you know, you can be looking at an immature animal and his rack may look giant, but it's an immature body. And the deer's body characteristics are not you know. And so if he's if he's out past his ears, but he's a two year old, you know that, then

he's not gonna be what you're after. But boy, if it's a fully mature buck with that big extended brisket, a huge neck um sagging back, I mean up here, you're truly looking for a mature deer, I mean a five year old deer. And m boy, if he if he looks like he has any rack at all and he's got a body like that, he's a deer, you

probably want to shoot. Yeah, And I and I think also too, And I think Tom would be okay when we's saying this though, But if you see that ten point of that clay, Saul and you want to take that, heck, yeah, Tom's okay with that well, And and you know, and I would have got the cool thing to me about this, And is any hunt any hunt? I don't care what you're doing. You've got to have goals and objectives. I mean you and that the goal in your objective maybe to go there and have fun and get some meat.

And if that is your goal objective, then shoot the first legal animal that you see. You can also go into hunt like we did, Chris, and like I did, and my goal was to get some amazing organic Manitoba protein and to kill a mature buck. I didn't. Honestly, I didn't care if it was a hundred thirty or a hundred and sixty. I really didn't. It may be hard for you to believe that, but it's true. I would have shot a hundred and thirty inch heavy racked

buck like last year and been thrilled. And uh, I just was fortunate and killed one that was a lot bigger than that. But but I had an objective. My objective was to kill a mature deer. And uh. And so whatever you set your goal for, you know, you want to hit that target, you don't want to well, yeah, and that's what's fun about having goals and objectives inside of hunting. Well, and I think there's nothing wrong with

the fact too. I mean it's you know, I came, we've drove, you know, we've put in a lot of time to come up here to Manitoba, you know. And I you know, and I'm paying my hard earned money to to get a deer that I might not ever see in my lifetime. And and and you know, it actually bothers me more that I'm I'm coming home without me from my dear you know. But at the same time,

it's Okay. You know, if I'm coming up here and wanting to get a deer that I might not see in my lifetime, and you know, and and you know, we talked about how those deer don't spook, but that's actually not completely true. You drive out on that field and a big buck on the second at sees you, and and and so it dough won't. But I mean, it's they're still notice. I mean, it's not like we're talking.

You know, these things are walking. It's a tough hunt. Yeah, there there every hunt, there's there's factors that play into the difficulty and challenge of it. And on this hunt, it's it's time and stand boy, we just pounded it out and just you just sit for long, long hours and uh and temperature, you know, I mean we were

that morning that you shot your deer. It was three degrees and uh in the high temperature that day was in the uh like twenty degrees or twenty one or something, you know, you know, and I think and I think that you know, and I think you that you're gonna give me some of that meat and I'm gonna go home and celebrate the life of that animal by you know,

cooking summer sausage. For we're gonna we're gonna split the meat right by my for my family, Genie's family, you know, and in dear Jerky and and you know, and boy, it is different than our Arkansas deer. Say what it really is? Well? And I mean and and there's nothing wrong with that. And and you know, people might say, you know, trophy hunting or whatnot, but to me, it's like, man,

there's nothing to me. You know, it's it's you know, coming up you say, you know, goals and objectives and stuffing to have a goal up here, and that's why you come to Canada. I mean, if you wanted to gather two hundred pounds of meat to grind to make stakes out of, we would have gone over to where I took you the first year when you killed that dough and Washington County, Arkansas. I mean, we could have

done it, but we drove up here. Um for for the for the getting to hunt of new landscape, the challenge of it, the excitement of it, the fun of it. And yeah, big bucks, I got zero. You know how much shame I've got for that. Look at my my hand here at zero. Mature animals older mature animals out of the population is an honorable good thing. Now, if all we were doing was cutting off the horns and telling the outfitter to keep the meat, I I, that's not cool. But but whatever, if you got to do that,

you gotta do it. And and you know, I wish I could get that meat. Coyotes it brother, I know well, and that you know they they need that too. It's cold up there. Well, hey, the good news is, Chris is that good Lord will And we're gonna come back next year, me and you and uh so, hey, let's talk about our gear that we used for stained Warm.

I want to talk a little bit about it. So we were we were hunting tree stand hunting temperatures that were I think the coldest that guy was three degrees and the high temperatures were in the low twenties, upper teens, even mid teens some days. And uh so, what I was wearing, I'm just gonna start with what I was wearing. I wore two pair of well one pair of thin marino woolsocks. And I put two sticky hot hands on my toes, one on top of my toes and one up on my leg like to kind of wear my ankle.

Yeah where you told me the veins run down on our defeat. Yeah, the arders run down to the and then I put a fairly heavy wool sock over that, and then I used a pair of Irish setterencilates of fencilate. Just regular old boot. I mean, somebody gave me those boots, that's the boots I wore them. I wore the Marino woolf first light bass layers. Uh touching my skin. So everything touching skin was Marino wool, which was very important

because we were at different times. We were sweating a little bit riding in, like you had to get dressed. Like the logistics of dressing are so crazy because you gotta get dressed before you go. And so you're riding in a truck and you're gotta walk to the stand, but you're not carrying a bunch of stuff. We just weren't. We were dressing totally. And then going in we didn't have to walk far. But and then Chris, I wore

my sawbuck pants. I had the Marino wool bass layer sawbuck pants, my puffy pants uncompa gray puffy first light pants, and then the Sanctuary bibs that's what I had on bottom, four or five layers there, Okay. On top, I wore the Marino wool bass layer. I wore one of the first light uh Klamath hooded little fleece sweater, and I wore a nap gray puffy vest. Then I wore a serious puffy vest, and then I wore the Sanctuary jacket.

That's what I wore and uh and I I would take at least three to four hot hands every single sit. You were a hot hand addict. We oh man, we were, we were wearing them out. I would put a hot hand in the left front pocket of my Klamath hoodie. There's a little zipper right over here. I I kind of felt like it was right over my heart, so maybe it was warming my whole body. I would put that there. I would have two for my hands that would keep in the front pockets of that Sanctuary jacket

and uh. And then I would put one on the kind of the back of my neck, kind of wear your neck meets your back. And then I so those are my four hot hands. And then I would wear at least two of the Merino wool beanies and then brimmed orange beanie because you had to wear orange, So were three layers on the top. And usually I would have the hood of that sanctuary up over my head and zip it up. My my glasses would fog up

and my beard was getting caught in the zipper. But other than that it worked pretty good when my zipsed all the way up. That was what I wore. What did you wear? Um? So I? So I I have to wear like a sin athetic and you're gonna have to help me with some of the names. So I, but I wear like I have to wear synthetic under my wool, because so you don't the wool wool on scan with you didn't work. It's not unless I have used the arrow wol. Is that what it's Yeah, that's

the synthetic mixing with them. Yeah, and I do okay with that. But if I'm using straight up wool, a lot of times I'll itch too bad or get a rash, especially in real cold stuff. So I wear like a silk synthetic bass layer. And then I had is it the furnace furnace? Yeah, the furnace first light bass layer correct, um, and then actually something I you know, I think you have this problem too, But my feet give, I mean

get cold. Um. And I feet got cold with what I did right well and actually this is the warmest my feet of ben. But I I've always used rubber boots. You told me to use rubber boots, yeah, and I do what you say. And my feet were never able to breathe. Um. And so I got some some of the Schnay's six under graham uh ventilate boots and um uh and I use uh some some powder in there because my feet sweat like foot powder. Yeah. And I use a liner sock and then uh, I used the

darn tough, real thick hunting sock. And I also used like a like an ankle sock. Um. And then I, uh, my feet, the letting them breathe is huge. Um. And then I used like this little booty thing I don't even know what it's called. Um and would put okay, So yeah it was it was a booty that went over your boots once you got in stand. Yeah. And you and you pointed out which was true. If I wait till my feet are cold, it's worthless. Yeah. So

I never gain it back. Yeah, And so I put them on the second I got in the stand and would throw hot hands in there, and that worked like a charm man. There was times when my feet didn't get cold, not at all. Yeah, and that wasn't every time, but it, but that was there was times. Um. And then so I wore the furnace and then um, usually I wore the the the incinerator, uh overall in the jacket. Yeah, sitka, I'm not supposed to. I can't. I can't utter those words.

Oh sorry, that's what I wore. I just kidding. I can't lie. So you you were like you hesitating to say it. Yeah, honestly, am I supposed to make something up here? And then I, uh, but for my top, that's good stuff, man, Yeah, you know it was good stuff. And then I worked it is a little loud um and then uh, my top I wore U. I know it was first light stuff, but I don't remember. I wore the serious jacket, serious puffy yeah. And then um

oh that hoodie yeah, like a Klamath hoodie. Uh. And then also that that one, and I also wear uh it's like got the little squares and under I don't remember the yeah, the panel fleece yea or and remember what they call it grid fleece, and then I wore the incinerator hat. And then you know what I really like are those fingerless wool? Uh first light glove? Oh really did you like those? Did you wear those? Yeah? Fingerless? Huh? Well, I don't know if that's the correct term. What is

I mean? They look like their fingerless? And then I have, uh, I have a handwarm or a sick of hand. I'm warmer and uh I threw some hot hands in there. Yeah, that's the one thing I forgot which killed me. No, and I'm sure it did. And then I had a net a sick connt gator. Yeah. Um, how would you rate your warmth? I was not in a tree stand? Yeah, and so I did all right? Um, I was in I was you know, we had the gear. Um, but I I was not doing what you were doing. Um,

so I I did all right. There was a few times my feet got cold, but I've been colder in in not as cold weather. Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah, you know what's funny. I've been texting Brent Reeves and straight Sadio. Um. We were in New Mexico two weeks ago and I was texting them saying, it is three degrees and I am tree stand hunting and Antoba, and I am not as cold as I was riding the mule in New Mexico two weeks ago. I got so cold in New Mexico. I thought I was gonna pass out.

Was that just because you didn't have the gear? Well, I guess. I think one morning it was seventeen degrees and we were just kind of preparing for an active hunt, so we didn't wear tons of clothes and it just never got warm that day, and I was so cold. Uh. Yeah, there was a time when I actually it's never happened to me before, but I actually started getting almost nauseous. Where you had higher altitudes, yeah, we were like eight

thousand feet that probably had a big party. But I said, it's three degrees in Manitoba and I'm tre sta and hunting, taking a ten mile per hour win in the face, and I'm not as cold as I was in New Mexico ten days ago. But but but you stayed you stayed pretty warm with your Yeah. Well, to me, that's the fun of this hunt. There's there's a challenge inside of just taking the brutal cold. And I was hunting out of a tree saddle, a tethered tree saddle for

two afternoons, I guess. And then I tree stand hunting two mornings out of a just a stand. I wasn't a tree stand one. You were in a tree stand that windy day. And I for my feet because I didn't put on the booty booties until my feet got cold. Yeah that was a mistake. Yeah, well, uh, is there anything else we're supposed to talk about? Chris? We kind of had a running list. We wanted to tell the

canoe story. We wanted to uh we mainly want to talk about Judge and deer and talking about your experience up here. But uh no, man, it's been really really fun hunting with you, and uh yeah, we're gonna we're gonna do it again. Good Lord Willing and people if they're interested in where we hunted. Uh, we did a We did a podcast with Tom Ainsworth. Holy cow, what a guy. Oh I mean you won't mean you would You wouldn't even have to go hunting with Tom to

come up here and have a good time. Tom seventy one, and he is a classic Canadian just salt of the earth rancher, hunter, outfitter. It kind of makes you feel bad in the fact, it's like, you know, I'm I'm a thirty seven or thirty eight. I'm September. Yeah, so I'm thirty eight. Um, he I'm pretty sure the guy

could out work me up. And I mean the guy, I mean he and you know, we're looking for my dear and I would go somewhere and I would be like, I think this is a good Now granted it's his land, but I would go here and I'd be like, I think this is a good trail, and I would see a boot print and Tom's already gone down at it. Yeah. It's just the six six, lanky guy without an ounce of fat on him, and he just, yeah, really is an incredible shape. Yeah. And he, I mean he would

just I mean he doesn't. It takes a lot to get him upset, and he just you know, he's just always happy, you know. And yeah, good guy. Well he uh and Deb she's awesome. Yeah. You feel like you're just going to your friend's house and hunting with him for a week, eat at Tom's table, home cooked meals every single meal, stay at our own little bunk around Skylie. It's just fun. There's just no other way to describe it. It's not it's not like a wilderness adventure hunt. I

mean it's just fun. There's just farm country whitetail hunt. It's almost like going to Yeah, you're you're it's almost going like a like a holiday. Yeah, like going home for Thanksgiving. Yeah. Yeah, I don't necessarily want to say that, Yeah, this hunt is cheap. Yeah, I mean this is a three thousand dollar hunt. Yeah, I'll just say that. I mean that's what it cost, and that's that's a lot of money. That's a lot of money for me. Uh,

that's a lot of money for a lot of people. Um, And but almost anybody if they set their mind to save up that money and it was right for them, you know, Chris, I would you know, some people like see people that travel and hunt and just assume that maybe that's something that they should do. And I don't necessarily think that it is. I mean, there's certain time periods in your life when that's just not in the

cards and that's okay. You know. So if you're thirty years old and building a business and have young kids, I mean, it may not be the time for you to spend three thousand dollars on a hunt and be gone for nine days. And you know, so I say that to say because sometimes I think people see I feel it because I I do travel a lot in hunt. But but this is my you know this, this is this is part of my business. This is what I do. This is calculated into my family and we you know,

my family is on board with what we're doing. And and so anyway, because I don't want to throw around a number, say, ah, three thousand dollars, that's easy, you could do it. Well, maybe you shouldn't do it, but there's a lot of guys that are in a stage of life when that's doable in comparison to a lot of other hunts too. Oh yeah, I think most people think a big Canadian white tail hunt would be five to seven thousand dollars, and it's not. This is this

is a bird nest on the ground. To be honest with you, And you know what, We're gonna cut this out of the podcast because I don't want anybody kind of upset me with telling that much. Yeah, those two bucks that we're fighting, man, they're still out there right now, They're still there. You know what. We want to help Tom because he surely helped us. Man, what a guy dab. I just it's just so much fun going up there. But you won't be able to go the week that

we're going because we'll be there. But feel free to come after us. Don't come before us because we you know, we kind of need to pick of the farm. But nah, Chris, can you think of anything else? Any closing comments? This is your first time on the Baroning magazine podcast and

knowing that there was a bear hunting magazine podcast. It's just true, Um, I would say, you know, it's I. I appreciate everything you do for hunting and everything you've done for me, and uh, you know, one of the big things I've learned is, you know, one of the big things that you told me is you can't you know, the best way to get to know ah Land is is to hunt it. And you know, and I find that true and true is as you've got to hunt it and learn. You know, it's okay to make mistakes

and it's okay, but learn from it, um. And that's you know, and it you know, it's you know, in the medical field, I don't like it. You know who people who won't admit that they're they're wrong or make mistakes, and that's the same thing. And anything it's you know, say, you know, I made a mistake, I'm sorry, and you know, here's how we're gonna learn from it. That's that's the way to do life, I think, And and that's you know, that's my two cents. Well, hey, I appreciate it. Man.

This has been a ton of fun. So keep the wild places wild because that's where the bears and the big Canadian white tail bucks live