Beginners Guide to Building Your Family on Purpose (Hunter’s Edition)

to be more of a community and connect easier. The second part is the gearbox and what the gearboxes. It is a an opportunity for the users to not only see reviews on products and see what the go wild community is using in the field, what products they're using, but it also allows you guys to purchase up to a hundred and fifty thousand products. There's there's a shopping action on it. So check out the go Wild app.

If you haven't downloaded it to your phone yet, you need to and you can do that at any app store that is currently available. Go Wild It's an awesome app. Check them out. My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into the world of hunting the icon of the North American wilderness prepare. We'll talk about tactics, gear, conservation. We will also bring you into some of the wildest

country on the planet chasing fair. This week we're putting it in a little bit different gear and I've got my buddy Josh, filmmaker, Malichi Nichols, and Ben Lagron at the Global Headquarters. We have a pretty enlightening discussion about how Maliki gave me the stiff arm on going in partners on a boat. We talked about the Gary Newcom Hunting School of Hard Knocks summer camp that Josh Spillmaker attended, and we talked about building family culture. Building family culture

in the time of crisis and instability. I think the response of of anybody to the people that they love is to to build stability for them. And so we have a really fun conversation about building family culture and what that means, values, philosophies, culture, and I think you're gonna enjoy this podcast. We just went to print with the July August issue of Bear Hunting Magazine. It is a great issue. A lot of great articles, some Lama articles, some hound a lot of hound stuff. Uh. We even

teach people how to make some bear hide chaps. Anyway, check out Bear Hunting Magazine. You can subscribe to Bear Hunting Magazine. Get it six times per year, mailed to your door. Incredible, incredible thing. Hey, I hope you enjoyed this podcast. We are at the Bear Hunting Magazine Global headquarters. I think I know all of you have been here before. Yes, at one time or another. This has been the first time on the podcast. Well and Malachots first time, but

not Josh's first time. Well, hey we are We're at the Bear Hunting Magazine Global headquarters. Do you guy? Did you guys notice anything new in here? It's kind of smells like mothballs. Okay, that is new. That is that snake deterrent. It's I feel like the mobs are trying to get to my bears. Okay, guys, it's a little more obvious than what you're feeling. The table, Look at that n at that This is like a This is

like a card table. I bought this at an antique store and it's it's a like probably a two by two two and a half by two and a half square table with fold out legs, and it's old, it's very old, and it has this beautiful old painting of a fox hunting scenes certainly from Europe. And it's like it's like got all these running walkers and these guys on horses, and I like that this This lady's like

bringing her man some food here. I told Mr. I said, I mean, you know, you could bring me food while I was riding my mule if you wanted to do do. Are you gonna put a thatched roof on your house? That roof? But so when I saw this, like I was like, this is the foundational stuff from where we get our hound hunting culture in North America is from the European hunting culture. And I'm sitting there in this uh in this antique store looking at this and and

it's like this rich cultural scene. I mean, I like it. Like families are involved. You know, think about the guys that bred. I mean, there's like twenty five dogs there that those horses had to be trained. Those didn't just they weren't just born trained. Somebody trained those horses. Somebody developed a craft, somebody bred those dogs. That the families, you know, the how and that, my friends, is no

longer in existence. For the most part, the European hound hunting culture is gone, essentially gone there there, it's still there. I have people right in and say, no, we still hunt, and they do. There's a few, but in general it is gone. So I came back talked to Kolbe about I told him what I saw, and uh, I went back and I bought this. And you know what I'm gonna do with We're actually using it as a table here today. I got all my podcast stuff set up

on it. It looks like a picture frame, though, doesn't it? Like to the tabletop looks like a picture frame. I'm gonna take the legs off of that thing because I don't really need a table in here, even though it's kind of convenient. And I'm gonna put it as a picture right above your head. Do you see that? If the guys are looking up right right there on the ceiling of the loft here. So there's gonna be a a big painting of this European hound hunt on the

ceiling the bare Honey Magazine Global Headquarters. Oh you teach me up, Like I was like confused, like why did you see it? So that people walk in here and say why is that painting on the ceiling, And I'm gonna say, as they didn't guard the gate. They didn't guard the gate. That that scene is no longer on the earth, It's not on the flat walled. I got pictures all in here of all this honey, all this culture, all this life, all this shared experience, and this is

still here. You know. We can still hunt deer, we still quail hunt, we still ride our mules and bear hunt, but that they don't and I want my children to be able to jumpana mule go coon hunting. So it's gonna be there is a symbolic as a symbolic gesture too, we better guard the gate. Do you know what guarden

get means? Malichi been been in? Malachi are okay? Essentially, guard the gate is a phrase that we use Bear Hunting Magazine to say that the bear hunting is the entry point for the anti hunting community to come into to the North American space of hunting. Like they're not after the quail hunters, They're not after the deer hunters. It's the bear hunters, and it's also the hound hunters. Like hound hunting is an easy narrative for people to

twist and for someone to not understand. And so that is the easy place for the anti hunting community to come in and twist the narrative and say these are barbarians, this is an outdated, irrelevant practice, and so and the anti hunting communities whole strategy is incrementalism, like they're picking off one thing at a time so much so like a frog and boiling water. You know, you don't realize it until you wake up in your seventy and you

can't do what you used to could do. And so it's a it's a it's a pretty big We talked about that a lot because the hunting the hunting world has sort of been ignored or the bear hunting world,

excuse me. And so what we're trying to do is build this strong narrative of ethics, conservation, humane harvests, like all these things like why bear hunting is no different then the other top of hunting, and how harvesting wild game is no different and in in in fact more humane than the bacon that we just ate in there. I mean, you live in a glass house if you think that that bacon was was ethically and honorably raised and harvested, and people people don't have a problem with that.

I mean, like, but then they might say they have a problem with me going and killing the bear, and it's like, nah, we gotta guard the gate. That makes sense. And to your point, Clay, just thinking about the origins of of kind of our hunting tradition even to date, when you look back at at historical references like this, it's not there anymore, and all those things have died off. So if we don't do something now, we're gonna we would logically have to expect that the traditions we have

now will die off. Right. Well, we live in a the very nature of the earth today is one of massive increase of communication. Used to things could hide in the shadows and kind of just be out of sight. Not anymore. Social media is called is wreaking havoc on a whole lot of stuff, not just hunting. But it's like it's like showing the world and so globalization, like people from all over the world follow social media from North America. And the answer is not to quit putting

stuff on social media. Part of the answer is don't put stupid stuff on social media. Don't put fringe stuff that doesn't happen very often, and that's just a very nature of the problem is that when something sensational happens, like in a hunting situation, like say, you know, that's what you want to talk about, because the other four hundred days that you went hunting that didn't happen, and and so you put this sensational thing on the internet,

and then that brands the whole scene. So you know, we we do have to part of guard in the gate is having wisdom with what you put on social media about hunting, because every facet of hunting, every facet of farming, every facet of driving a car down the road. Driving a car down the road can have a bad narrative people dyeing crash, So be like putting a picture of a crash car and someone injured in a photo and put it on social media and then the world

saying cars are terrible, cars kill people. Well, yeah they do, but most of the time they don't. You're with me, Yeah, there's so much there's just there's just okay, there's so much information out there that it's like anything we see now has to be sensationalized for us, for it to get our attention. Yeah it's true. Yeah, yeah, well okay, I didn't I really didn't intend for I love it. I had to tell you about my table though. This is this is gonna be major, This is gonna be

a major addition to the fair. So hey, let me introduce my guests. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna give a short introduction, then come back and give a longer introduction. So I have Josh Spillmaker. Josh has been on the podcast before. Josh is like, well, I'm not gonna talk. I'm gonna give you introduction. And then we have Malichi Nichols like a long time friend, but you've never been on the podcast, okay. And then to my left, Benjamin

Lagron Um, it's been waving to the crowd. I've been been has never been on the podcast, And there's different reasons why I've I've I have you guys on this podcast because we're all at different stages of life, except for Josh and I are kind of in the same stage. Um but uh, but so we're gonna we'll talk about Well, so, Ben you have three daughters. How old are they? Six? Four and two? So you're like in the heat at the moment. Okay, So and then Malachi, how many kids

do you have? No kids? Doesn't have any kids? Is pretty newly married. How old are you, Malachi? How have you been? Thirty two? Okay, and Josh, you have three kids? I have three children. Oldest is twenty, my middle one is eighteen, and my youngest is fourteen. Yeah, girl, boy, girl. Yeah. So what we're gonna talk about today is is uh is building family culture. We may find a different phrase to use, but that's the way that I would describe it.

So I wanted to. I wanted to here's some stuff from the guy who is future casting of what with kids. But I mean, you're already building family kid I've been for about three and a half years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So you're not future casting, but you're you're building foundation big time for when you do have kids. And then and then Ben is right in the heat of it. So just different stages. But before we do that, I

wanted to. I wanted to so, Josh, I don't think these guys know that you used to be the assistant assistant to assistant to the editor of a small regional publication that I used to vaguely put together. It was called the Arkansas Bear and Buck Journal. It was a very classy publication. Listen, one day, one day I was, I was, I was building this magazine. I mean it

was I published the magazine. I mean like I didn't have a boss, you know, and uh, we were going to print like that day or something, and I was like, it'd be funny to put Josh's name in there. So I put Josh's name. And I put Josh's name in like the like right beneath mine and our other buddy, Jonathan Rose put you know, Clay nucom editor, publisher, Josh Spillmaker, Jonathan Rose, assistant editors, and then just went right down

the line. Nobody ever said away prove freed a few articles back in my day, Jonathan Rose dead, Did you hang up the journal? At least I think I still have so, I mean there's probably something right over there. I have your name because once I did it, I never took it out. How many years, well we produced it for five years. You are now liable. So if

you get an email, you know why. The opinions expressed on the Arkansas baron Buck Drill did not reflect the opinions of Josh, so Okay, So Josh and I have been longtime friends, and Josh, I was trying to find a way to describe you, and I've I've got it perfect. I mean, you know, because we're saying we have to be conscious of the sphere that we're inside of, and like people that are listening to this for the most part, or hunters for the most part. So you know, I'm

kind of introducing to you. It's like the hunting Josh. Okay, yeah, so here here here, this would be like on your resume. There's only been one graduate of the Gary Newcombs Hunting School of Hard Knocks that graduated, and that would be me, I know, the one that graduated. My brothers were both in the school. They didn't make it. They didn't make it.

God love him. There there um but semesters no. Well, listen, if Gary Knwcomb had had like a summer camp, if the Gary Newcoms School of Hunting the hard Knocks had had a summer camp, you would have gone to the summer camp and like got the shirt and went through it. Because so for like the better part of on and off for twenty years, Josh's you know, probably probably fourteen of twenty years. Fifteen of twenty years, we've gotten down in hunting with my dad in public land in southwest Arkansas.

Would you say that's about right? So you uh you, you have some Gary Newcomb paraphernalia. A significant portion of my hunting gear has come through Gary Newcomb, whether voluntarily or involuntarily. Your bow, my bow, you're still sporting those real tree cameras from I stole his flashlight, his stream light flashlight for about three years before I gave it back. Yeah, so uh so. But but Josh and i' hunted together on the podcast you're on before we were talking about

generational continues, we're talking about raising kids. We told your famous story of killing the first day you bow hunted public land, you killed the deer. Tried to keep it a secret from you, but you spotted the dime sized spot of blood on my boots from like two miles away as you drove up to get me. Yeah, so I took We We won't go into the full story, but Josh killed the deal. The first day you ever setting a tree too in bow hunt, and he drugs

he drags it early in the morning. It was like we didn't have cell phones, so it's like he you know, I was gonna come pick him up at eleven and so you know, he killed this deer at like am. So he drags the deer out to the road and uh and goes to sleep off the road kind of off the road. Yeah, yeah, like for a pillow and took a two and he wakes up and uh, they're buzzards surrounding him. So these buzzards were like, we got a pretty big old boy, and they were like, well,

I don't know what happened there, but something happened. And so they landed and we're like about probably to pack his eyeballs out when he woke up. And then you had turkeys walked by you. It's pretty so yeah. And then uh, and we've had it added off together. I mean, you've coon hunted with me, You've you've done quite a bit of stuff with me. Hunting was always enjoyable time. Yeah, David killed a turkey with us, and we have turkey

youth turkey hunted, Yes, we have. Yeah. Awesome. So in Malachi, you didn't know this, but uh, well, so Maliki, I'm gonna die listening here. And so Maliki is an Arkansas licensed hunter. Oh, Yeah, it's real serious. Renewal in end of June one year, coming up on my one year anniversary. It's real serious. So this is your first Arkansas hunting license that you've ever bought. Though it is true you grew up in Texas. Grew up in Texas. Yeah, but you did a little bit of hunting in Tea. But

but you wouldn't call yourself a hunt definitely not. I did a little arm and hunting back in elementary school with like a little fourteen yeah, going out shooting varmints with my friend and his dad in Midland, in Midland, Texas yea. And then did a little quail and dove hunting. Hometown of George hometime of George w Wah. I don't think that hometown of George see his dad. Uh, George h did his old business there and that's how he

got got his money. And then the sun was I don't know if George w was born there, but I knew he went to elementary school there, and so that's how Midlands. When I left Midland, it was about two hundred thousand. Now it's close to about three or four hundred thousand from they had a big old boom old money. Yeah, back when a couple of a couple of years ago,

maybe Midland was like the biggest producer at all. Did you know, said I heard George H. W. Bush say one time that the difference between him and George W. You're talking about the dad of the son. Okay, George W is the son. George W. Said the difference between him and his dad was Midland, Texas because George W. Was kind of like this, you know, kind of folksy kind uh you know, like I don't know not yeah, yeah, kind of texting in in. George H. Was like a

rich boy from the north, a little more polished. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, middle of Texas is my hometown. So I want to say to you though, that you you're qualified to call yourself a hunter if you wanted to that, because I've shot I mean just you went hunting, yeah, I mean, and you find it with me? Yeah, we have cool hunting. Yeah. Um. And now he bought his license because we were going to try to go duck

hunting this year, but we it just didn't happen. But but did y'all know that I tried to get Malichi to go in with me and buy a boat hold on. That's why that publicly ask him why he didn't want to go in with me boat. Cut on, hold on, hold on, let me listeners, listeners, listen, listen to me. Clay and I were talking one day and we were talking about we had fried some fish. Came over here and had had a fish fry and he was like, man, it's so nice to go out and catch fish, come

back home and cook it. And I was like, yeah, let's do more fishing. Okay, So I'm thinking I'm gonna go get a fishing pole and we're just gonna go out to the creek to do a little fishing. The next text message from Clay nucok, what do you think about going in on the boat? And I'm thinking, like, you just want to rent a boat or for the weekend, And he's like, I'm talking about buying the boat's whole.

I just want some fishing poles. And I'm talking about every once in a while, I don't want to buy a boat, you know, like where do you have it? You're texting somebody and they like respond back, go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And then you asked this question and there's like siloce and you're like and for like the first five minutes, you're like, ah, he must have just said his phone down. And then after like thirty minutes, you're like, he probably went for

a run. And then after an hour you're like, he's he's not happy with what I said. When? So when when Malachi and I multiple times we've fried fish together, and I can tell the man likes to fry fish. We kind of enjoyed like cooking for our wives. And so I'm like, all right, I got a friend. I got a friend that wants to catch fish, and so anyway I messaged him. I was like, hey, you want to go out on He went from like zero to

like he doesn't do anything real quick. So anyway, okay, at least I know why why you still farm me though, But okay, that it offers still stands. Offers still stands. We didn't need to go fishing. Um Okay, Benjamin lagron Man, Okay, now, Ben Ben has you have a long history of hunting, but not real I mean, you're not super serious about it. Would you describe how would you describe your heart? I

would say I was really serious growing up. I've just since I've had three little kids, and the thought of trying to add that to my schedules pretty daunting. Grew up in like, yeah, deer camps and stuff with. Oh yeah, So I grew up Central Arkansas mainly deer hunting. The second highest thing I did was probably duck hunting, but you know, I did some squirrel, a little bit of turkey quill and all that. But yeah, we I grew up hunting in um deep South Arkansas and for most

of my childhood. Man, we had a pretty primitive camp. It was rough in it, and that made me pretty battle hardened, I think in a good way. Like I knew what it I knew what it meant to sacrifice for the kill. I mean, I knew hunting was work, you know, and you know, we scouted, we we we tended to the land like we did um It was

hard work. And then I remember, probably like maybe when I was a teenager, my dad and we kind of got tired of the primitive camp and we joined this membership of of it was a luxurious to enter, to our standards, a luxurious deer camp. We're like this is awesome, Like we can actually go indoors, I mean, our old camp it was like it was just like a lean to you would eat and you know, around the fire and uh. And that was like the ritz Man And it was actually a a cool deal because it was

a lease. But there was somebody that owns some land and lived there all year long, like right next to the lease. That was really great because we leave our stuff and it was always safe and and they were always kind of like keeping their eyes open on um, how the deer moving and stuff. And but that was most most of my most cherished childhood memories were deer hunting with my dad. And then in high school my best friend started telling me duck hunting and um and

I really love that. Built a lot of great memories with him and his dad, who recently died of cancer a few years ago. And uh, but so that's one of my cherished memories with him was was duck hunting and they duck hunting near Stuck Guard and it was just it was just a lot of fun. Yeah, So you do have a you do have a rich history

inside of hunting and it's it's uh, it's interesting. Y'all may not know it as much, but like South Arkansas, there's not as much public land so there's the hunting lease culture is pretty strong, like you got it, and it's affordable. It's not like I mean, there are certainly big leases down in South Arkansas that are incredibly expensive, like more expensive than you could imagine. Um, but I mean like a lot of lease is that you know,

just a working man could afford to get into. Um and uh So anyway, but like up here, you can't hardly find it hunting least again Northwest Arkansas. If you were to say, if you would ask me where hunting Least you could join is, I wouldn't know where to tell you to go. But it's probably because there's so much there's quite a bit of public plan around here, so people can go hunt public lan and do pretty

do okay. But now you know what I always say is that so in what's happening right now with the hunting world is that hunter recruitment is a massive, massive issue. So technology, transportation, the opportunity inside of a prosperous nation, opportunity just gives people so many options for what they do with their spare time, and for of people, hunting is an option for what to do when they have spare time, and uh and prosperity creates options and uh,

and so what has happened? You know, the peak hunting numbers in the United States were in the early nineteen eighties, and I think we had like sixteen million hunters, but the population was like two million people. So that was like I can't remember the percentage, somebody could do the math um, but essentially something like that. And so like, that's actually a pretty fair number listeners, that's wrong, that's

half that, okay, somewhere around ten. So, so what has happened now is that we have eleven million licensed hunters in the US, but the US population is three d and thirty million. So if you when you're talking about a democratic society where people vote, like even though, I mean, losing five million hunters massive, but what's equally as massive is that the population we've not we've not had a

healthy growth with the population. And so I say to like Malachi, Malachi, buying a hunting license is significant, and honestly, in the state of Arkansas, he has done as much for conservation as I have. I mean really, and so like just buying a hunting license, I mean, like buy your spouse a hunting license for no, no, reason other than just as a as a gift, as a as

a a donation to conservation. Um. Because I never thought about that before, Clay, because you know, I buy a hunting license every year, but really, to to help make a difference, you could buy family members. It's I mean, if all the license hunters in Arkansas just said, you know what, I'm gonna buy somebody a hunting license, and I mean, obviously you want those people to participate in hunting, but even if they didn't, you're you've you've doubled the revenue.

And all that money is ear tag to go back into the state organizations that are doing work for conservation in every state. You know. The other the other way that money comes in, And that's not what this podcast is about. But but is uh, you know, buying hunting equipment through the Pittman robertson money that like, is uh the tax money that comes from firearms? Um, all you guys are in the firearms big time, and uh man,

the ammunition that you're buying is specifically earmarked for conservation. Yeah, Pittman Robertson exercise tax. Oh, firearms users and hunters are the ones who are funding conservation in this country, America. Yeah,

you're welcome, America. And that's the that's the problem. So it's not just that, you know, like I'm a hunter and I want my culture to persist through time like that, that's part of it, Like this kind of emotional you know, cultural connection to hunting that like I want my great grandkids should the earth persist, uh live through then see. No, there's real tangible value to hunters being on the landscape because they fund conservation. So less hunters means less wild places,

means less wildlife. And that's that's kind of a hard pill for some people to understand. But that's not why we're here, old boys. Um, what I want to talk about is man unprecedented times we live in? Is it not absolutely unprecedented times? And the you know, and we're we're talking about the coronavirus, we're talking about just a political instability. We're talking about I mean, the chaos of riots and ludy and we're not gonna get into the

details of that. But to me, what I want to do, and I think the base level instinct of pretty much any family, any person, any any head of home, you know, husband, wife, it's gonna want to do is stabilize their families inside of times of instability. I mean that whether you are

I don't care where you're from. That is the innate desire of parents of families, whether you're religious, whether you're not religious, whether you live in China, whether you live in New Zealand, whether you live in the United States, whether you live in the urban center of New York City,

whether you live in Newton County, Arkansas. You have this innate desire to stabilize your family and times of crisis, times of instability shaking shake that and people could be like, I'm not shaken by this, you are a little bit. I mean like I mean, as my life really been affected. I mean like we've eaten just as much food, probably more we've I mean like we've not like sent down the financial belt I figured we've probably I mean like life has been pretty normal for us. So that's not

what I'm talking about. I'm not saying you're starved out of food or but life is different. Life is different than it was. And uh, and we have to walk our families. I feel like as as leaders of homes. And when I say that, you can hear me say that A lot. I mean, I'm talking about husbands and wives, parents, Uh,

navigating family through all this stuff is significant. But so the foundation to that though, the the ability to ride a mule through a rough spot in the mountain doesn't come when you get to the rough spot in the mountain. It started in the round pen when you were training it um a long long time ago. The foundations of that animals connection to the writer is the writer's connection. And know what that animals? You know, you see what I'm saying. So it's like crisis tests us. All this

test us. So what we're talking about the building family culture, building family culture, and all you guys, I respect every all of you for the way that you have built your families. And I think nobody's doing everything right. I mean that that the word right is a tough one, but we're doing it intentionally. And I know all you guys well enough to know that you're very intentionally building

family culture. And if if you don't hear anything else on this podcast, and you know you're just listening to this and like you just want to chew on something, my question to you is are you being intentional with the way that you're building your family? And that word building could throw you off and let me let me let me say this right here? Is that? Or I've got a couple of written statements here. Um, let's see. Let's see. We we research and consult almost everything that

we want to be proficient at. Do we not, Like, if you're gonna go on a big hunting trip, you're gonna learn about it. If you want to get into cycling, like you go to cycling experts and see what they say. Um. But with family stuff, a lot of times people are really isolated. Um. Why why do you think that is? I think it can be perceived as weakness to have to rely on some on advice or counsel from someone

else to build your own family. You know, when you when you see you know someone who's proficient at hunting, and and you see, you know, I like to fly fish, and so you know, I watch other guys, it's like, well, they've had a long history of this and I want to glean from them. But when it comes to your own family, it says it's a really a sensitive spot because you don't want to be seen as weak or

there's there's the other side of you. You get isolated because you don't want to build like mom and dad, or you don't want to follow their pattern and so so I'm gonna do it on my own. I'm gonna find my own way. And so it's it's almost a comparison of I don't want to do that, so I'm gonna do it my own way, and that can that can make you isolated. Yeah, I think, and I think we as people a lot of times are insecure and and to open ourselves up for somebody else's input, that's

pretty vulnerable. And it you it takes time of doing that a lot that you'll learn the value of it. And you're like, man, the more I open up my life to input, the better my life gets. The more I learned, the more the better my marriage gets. And so I remember even early on um in my marriage, and then the same with early I want to first had kids, like maybe like the first time I kind of like went to some went to maybe one of you guys or you know, people older than me, the

been married longer, head kids longer. I remember, it was almost like you know, what are they gonna say? And like what if I'm doing everything wrong? And what if I'm invalidated? Yeah, exactly. And then every time that I did go to people wiser than me, always got two things. I always got. Number one, they related to me. I've never had an issue in my family or marriage. Somebody

was like, you struggle with that? Oh my gosh, like you're you're a terrible person, Like you have a marital struggle are So it's like everything it's almost like my friends would like fill in the sense, oh yeah, and I bet you said this after you do that. Yeah, and then I bet you felt like this and yeah, and uh so that was one and that right there

is comforting and it shows you that it's safe. And then the second looking at somebody that you you perceive has made it through that and you're like, well they're okay and they had this problem. And then the second thing is I've always had and I've always from that

received an alternative perspective that I didn't have before. And it's like every single time I learned that I can't do this on my own, you know, and I know we're I'm jumping right into all this, but like that's one thing I'll learned with building my family is like, there ain't no way I can do this on my own. As exactly exactly. So I think it's it's like this double edged toward It's like we're kind of insecure, but we kind of I want to do it on our own.

But at the same time that's really hard. So we ended up just kind of feel we I think people either just feel like failure or they just kind of build up. They kind of just say, well, this is how I am, and this is the way my family is gonna be forever, not really getting to experience what could be better. I think it's a pretty American cultural thing to be really independent with your family. Mean, just you know, cultures, cultures are built based upon national history.

I mean, and like you think about the people that like settled in this region or heck, every region of this country unless they're unless they're Native Americans. They came here and there was like this pioneer spirit that was on people to like bust through the wilderness and make it on their own. People had to be self sufficient, and like here in the Ozarks, that is a trait that is honored self sufficiency. I mean, like at the Newcomb Farm, we hat tipped to the idea of self

sufficiency big time. That's okay, but that cannot be the definer of every part of your life, or you're a fool, you know. So like, yeah, we we like to hunt some some of our own food, butching our own animals, grow some stuff, training or you know. But when it comes to the things that I am not an expert on that I'm incapable, Well, anybody could can have insight into their family and make decisions on their own. We're not We're not suggesting that somebody is incapable of making

decisions on their own. But what I'm saying is best practice inside of life is for people to be connected inside of some network of people that they trust, you know, that they're getting input. And so, I mean that was just my point is that like all this other stuff, we're happy to go to YouTube and ask people and da da da da da, But when it comes to family, don't talk to me about my family. That's just it's

just it just said, it doesn't even make sense. And and so um family culture I would describe it as the values, the philosophy, and the structure to the way that your family lives its life and uh and and that culture holds the keys to how your family air quotes will turn out. I mean, like man, we live inside of a dynamic space as humans that live in the earth. Like man, we are but a flake of dirt that has had life breathed into us. I mean like it is a facade. I mean the human experience

is such a facade. I mean like it's so easy for us to look at our grandparents who are deceased, and it's like, man, there was a time when they were twenty nine, and they were forty, and they were at the peak of their life, and and now they're gone. It's like we will be like that. We have this short period of time in the earth, and we're constantly projecting forward. We're projecting forward like how our children, you

know what will our children? Are we equipping our children so they can go out and be successful in the future environment that we don't even know what it is us. I'm projecting into my marriage every single day. I'm doing things consciously or unconsciously or consciously that is sowing seed into my relationship with my wife five years from now. I say that to to young married guys, is don't expect things to get on a five year plan inside

your marriage. Start doing stuff today that in five years your wife is gonna trust you more and and you know, like because it takes a while to change stuff sometimes. Um, but so you know the very nature of of raising children means that we're investing in them with the hope of a return on that investment. Uh, not not for us to gain back, but just like I want my kids to I don't want my kids to not be able to be you know, whole humans. You know, and and here's here's the crux is that no human is

void of values, philosophy and culture. Like, so everyone has values and everyone displays those values, and every human life creates a vacuum that's filled with a value system. So you could be like, I don't have a value system. I don't want to have a value system. Well you just told me your value system. I mean, really, there's a human life creates a space that has it has no option but to be filled with values, culture, and

philosophy for life. Like there's so if if if you and I mean that gets right down into you know, what would be what would be an example of well, I've got here. You know, the question is how intentional is it? Lots of people, you know, people that have built their life very unintentionally, you know. And you also know people that have built their life very intentionally. Right, It's pretty obvious it is. And it's not just by chance. It's not just by luck. It's it's it's from intentional.

And so when we use the word building like I used, we we use that word a lot building. It's like I'm building family, culture and and and that. And for me it's like, uh, and I know for you guys, well, I mean it doesn't mean that like we have like newcom family school everything. We're just living our life. Yeah, That's that's when I was thinking about this the other day. One of my first memories of Clay was not with Clay.

It was with his kids, because I used to teach at um That, the school that his kids went to, and I can remember his kids like bringing in like bear fat to tell what the weather is going to be, or bringing in like skins of coon and raccoons and

you know, foxes and stuff like that. And I remember that standing out because all the kids did it, and what it was showing me it was like, hey, they liked to hunt and and they value kind of giving back to conservation or and it just really stood out to me because I got a flavor of who Clay was through its kids, and I knew it's like that's something he was intentionally building inside of his home. Yeah. Yeah,

What would be an example of values? Because sometimes those words like values, philosophy and culture, like what what would be an example of like family values? I think openness.

I would say for me, one would be openness. You know, I've only been married for three and a half years, and in our first year, one of the things that we always did we called it um Nichols family hours, Like every every week, once a week, we sat down and we just talked about the hard stuff, what was hard inside the home, what what was frustrating, you know what things, And that really did build a pattern inside of our marriage where we're if we're frustrated, we talked

about it, right, if we if we had a hard day, we talked about it. It's something that our spouse was doing that was irritating us, we talked about it. And so we value communication and openness. And I knew if I didn't do that at the beginning, it wouldn't be built right because I'm just not naturally open. I just don't naturally that's something you had to work. That's something I had to work and develop that muscle inside of you. Yeah. Yeah,

that's good. And so the opposite of that would be if you didn't communicate, you would actually be building the value of non communication. Right. So it's like it's not this isn't like yeah, I think I'll have some values. It's like, no, you've got value exactly. You've got philosophy, you've got culture, just you doing it on purpose and the expression of that to your children, whether you say

it or not. Um, you know, you can you can tell a family that's not open and communicative because the children have the attitude of well, we can't talk about that, you know what I mean. You can see it on a kid when they have frustrations when they we don't we just bottle that up and move on. Yeah. Yeah, that whole thing about openness. The opposite, I think is like privacy and that that's a value in our culture as well in America. The independence, the privacy you're your

own person. And yeah, when you let if you let your kid retreat and not talk about something, or in your marriage, if you just decide there's just places we don't go in our conversation, then you are establishing a value system, like you're saying, and that I think what you're saying earlier about projecting is so important because that can sound good in the short term of like, Hi, privacy is respectable and and I'm and sometimes you gotta give people space. And we know as married people you

gotta give each other space sometimes. But if you project to the future, you've got to be aware of what that's gonna build over time. And I think this whole thing about you value something, whether it's this or that, there's no such things as no value system. I think if you become just aware of that reality, you're ahead of the game on n of humans on the earth because most people kind of go through autopilot, just kind

of cruising along doing whatever they think or feel. And that awareness is just super key and it's super practical. It's not always like deep stuff like most people want to talk about values. I think of like integrity, honesty, and that's true, those are important, but it's the simple stuff too, Like like in my family, we value routine, Like we have a pretty solid routine and that's just

kind of how we roll. But at the same time, we my wife and I've talked about it, like sometimes we need to be more flexible because so like the opposite of routine would be flexibility. And we've looked at our life and sometimes how we get stressed out, and we'll be like, we need to be more flexible. We're teaching our kids not to be flexible, We're teaching them to be control rolling and you know, routine based because

me and my wife were like big planners. We like everything planned out, so we'll purpose sometimes, Jessica and I will purposely do something to like jack up our routine so that our kids. Yeah exactly, so our kids know that mom and dad are you know, are free sometimes and it see my response, yeah exactly. So it's not always again this deep stuff like integrity and compassion, which those are great, but it's sometimes just like how do you perceive your own day to day life? That's your

value system? Yeah, that's good. Um. I use this word philosophy like you know, family, like every family would have a philosophy. I'm trying to define what that would be. I thought of an example, like, you know, we have a philosophy that uh, short term gain for long term excuse me, short term sacrifice for long term gain. I mean it's a it's a that's a philosophy that it's like, yeah, you can you gotta clean your room, you gotta do this,

and then you can go do this. Or you know, whether it's my son who loves playing basketball, it's like he uh like he he's building. He really takes it seriously, very disciplined and we we like that. Um So, you know, I'm trying to define what these things would be, so values, philosophy, and then culture. Um So here's the question, why would somebody even care? I mean maybe you know, a lot of these things people do by default and don't even realize it. And maybe you're doing good stuff, you know,

so that's very possible. Like there's some people that just kind of have you know, are doing stuff, maybe not intentionally, but still they have some good stuff happening. But I you know, a well ordered life and family gives a person options, you know, like to me like and not to take this back to hunting, like, hunting is like the ultimate goal for every person that's listening inside of this. Hunting is just a facet of my life. But this is a hunting podcast where we're giving people, you know,

we're talking about it. But like, if you're your family and your relationships in your life are the foundational platform that everything in your life stems from, that's just the truth. Um. And so if your family and your relationships is chaos or unordered or you know, there's some something crazy going on, that's not the best way to describe it. You are not gonna be able to have the liberty two do

what you want to do. I mean, the way I've said it is is when you have your value system in order, then all the things beneath that are you're able to really give yourself to Like I've really been able to give myself to hunting for the last of most of my life, but really the last fifteen years.

And there's a direct connection between that and having a family that was in order, because you know, if it was causing so much friction in my marriage, like I wouldn't be able to do what I do, you know, yeah, and uh and so and and just like in even in your job. I mean it's like if you got if you're if you're not building family culture, you're you know, you're gonna have a hard time being successful really at

anything that you do. You know, and I think there's part of this conversation is just hopefully gonna help people just just hear a different conversation about it. Because there's little things that can be done where wherever anyone is at, little things that can be done. Um and uh and that's powerful stuff. UM. You know, I kind of broke this down thinking about like internal family culture and then external family culture and the to being like kind of

like internal value systems. But then there's external family culture like hunting, like like you described my kids like ten years ago, bringing bringing stuff to school like that would be to me like external family culture, like we value hunting, we value this. Um. But the the the internal stuff starts at the top and um, family culture is primarily

built behind closed doors and decisions that nobody sees. I love that about life is that there's some things that you cannot you can't fake, you know, I mean, and that's the that's the crazy part of the world we live in. It's like with social media and stuff, people can people can put off a perception of themselves, but you can't. You can't fake out reality, you know. And um, and so the statement that I have here is that you know the power to proclaim a standard only holds

the power when the proclaimer lives out those standards. And so you know that falls back onto to me and to us. Is that like inside of our families, like if we we can't ask our kids to do something that we're not willing to do, the old classic line of do as I say, not as I do, does not work. It just doesn't work. Yeah, it does. It doesn't work. So you can't you can't build something that's

not inside of you already, you know. And so that's that's where the personal responsibility of all this is cool, because you know, we can clean up our own selves, you know. It really, it really is the entry point, Clay. I mean, that's the the entry point for a value system is through whoever leads it. And so your value system is not going to be built by your children. It's not going to be built accurately through your wife. It's gonna be built through you as the head of

your home, you know. And that's and that's the way we've we've we've done it in our houses. You know, I've got to have enough sight to say this is what my family needs, and this is what my wife needs. And then you know, my wife, Christy and I we we work really closely together to partner and produce, to produce things in our children's lives. And that doesn't happen without us identifying it. You know, what do we want to build in our home? Because if we can't write

it down, it's not going to be built right. If we can't articulate, it's not going to be built right. So as we talk and as we think of of systematic ways to implement those things in our family and in our kids, and for us to say what's important, what do we want for our children? Where were the shortcomings in our own lives where we want to invest

in our kids to give them something better? And I think probably if you've listened to this podcast this far in you have that same desires to give your your children something. Do you want to say to all the guys that aren't listening anymore, but you you probably have a desire to give your children something even better than you had. And so, you know, I think that that identification of those things and then implementing in your own

life to give your children something to model. Kids need something. Kids are imitators. You know, what they see is what they do so right now. What they're seeing is they're seeing things on Facebook, they're seeing things on TV. They're seeing things and athletes, they're seeing things in all these different areas that will define them if you don't take

your rightful place as their their parents. So unfortunately, UM in our society these days, we have a lot of parents that have forgotten what it means to be a parent, and they're letting other people and other things and other influences be parents for their children. So and and to and aside to that is also that you don't wait till you have kids to start building exactly you you even if you're a single guy. It's like you start

now of building your values. Even my wife and I we don't have kids, but we started when we said, I do building values that we want to be transferred into our children. And it starts now. It's it doesn't it doesn't hurt if you never thought about it and you have kids, start today. But you have to have I like what Josh said, it's us, it's my wife and I. You sit down and and that's one thing that we've tried to build inside of our home is

the aspect of team. Right. We're not competing against each other. I'm not counting how many times you're washing the dishes. It's like we're a team. We're building one thing, and that's the Nichols culture. That's the Nichols family. That's the the things we are we have articulated and the things we want to see built in our children. Let's build it now that when when we have children, there's already a pathway for them to to step into and they can learn the ways and and see the ways. I

think it's important. It's not just here our values are here, the culture, but it's seeing it, seeing it being displayed. I think that's a that's an important thing because it's the foundation marriage. A family is just a set of relationships, right, and the first relationship is that marriage. I like, Josh, when you talked about, you know, giving them this gift, like which is you're talking about like modeling these values.

One of the greatest gifts you can give your kids is an example of a healthy, functional, good marriage, because they ain't gonna find many examples in the media today. And that's one of the greatest sources of joy in life. It's the greatest source of hard work and uh. But it's a great source of joy. And I want my kids to when they become adults, to know what that looks like and be excited for that. And so you know, you said the beginning of Malichos setting the foundation because

I didn't have kids yet. It's like, that's exactly right. Like I remember in our marriage, first couple of years were rough. Man, it was intense, and we work some things out, for sure, and the Little Ground's House you can hear from it was like the cartoon. And but we came through that, uh, different people and so much more patient, so much more tolerant, um, so much more in love because we chose to to deal with those things head on. And it's never too late for that.

You know. It's like it's like we still have issues come up, just like any marriage, but we built a culture. Is my culture, the culture and my home is like we deal with it. You know, it might not happen overnight, but we deal with it. We might have to bring in some help or talk to some people or but we're gonna deal with it and um and therefore, like

my kids don't have to live with that. You know what some kids might deal with, which is the awkwardness of of that tension in that relationship, because that's a that's a weird thing to cohabitate with. Uh, you know two people that that's struggling. That So that's I think that's a big time gift we can give our children as example a good marriage. Yeah, that's great, that's good. Um m hmm, so much, so much good stuff here. Um,

I'm trying to I want to give it. I guess people sometimes I hear stuff and I want people to be more specific. I'm not talking about you guys, but like, uh like like really map out you know exactly what we're talking about. Uh, you know, what is family culture? Um? But I think I think we'll get We've been some

good examples in here of of what it is. But ultimately, you know, strong leadership inside of family's rooted inside of rooted inside of a balanced person that really loves the people that they're close to, you know, like I just willing to sacrifice for them. Yeah. I feel like the you know, my kids are getting older, my older statters eighteen and uh, and I couldn't be more proud of

the human that she is. And uh, man, if there's one thing that I could say, is that relationship with your kids, authentic relationship with them is so powerful and that's what has that's what has made you know my kids and not they're they're not perfect. We're working with all of them on different stuff all the time. So don't don't hear me say that they're perfect. But just that relationship, and that relationship means we can talk about anything.

We do talk about anything. There's nothing that's off the table. And that didn't start when they were fourteen, that started when they were three. You know that they had a healthy view of who we were, They had a healthy view of our love for them. Um, and we made plenty of mistakes, man, that's the beautiful thing about it. You can make a lot of mistakes, uh in in and your kids and your family still work out right if things are built in such a because relationship is

very robust. Real human relationship is robust, like man, even anthropologically like from a like yeah, you know, human culture started as these like bands of nomadic people, the bands of nomadic people that were successful. And if we take it right back down to biology, um, biological biological success means that you produce a viable offspring. Okay, you produced

children that are able then to reproduce. If we're just talking like biological success, well, the people that knew how to leverage community relationships were the ones that were biologically successful. Stragglers were picked off by wolves. I mean literally, um there was there. There's all this study about like, uh, the traits that have made people like biologically successful. But I just say all that to say, um, well, I've

lost my training thought, doc got it. I was getting into the anthropology of drifting back to the straight up I was. I was in the burying straight imagining the people crossing over. But no, no, no, just it's it's deep inside of us to want to connect to community, you know, it's deep inside, like to leverage the strength of human relationships is powerful. And I always say this, man, the very foundation of hunting is provision for the people

that that person values. Like that's why I think hunting. It's so bizarre that in this day and age that there are people that that say hunting is not something that should exist or they don't understand it. Like hunting is essentially a key definer, a diagnostic definer of what it means to be human projectile points making tools and weapons to kill animals, to pro cure protein, to bring it back to your family. Is a diagnostic thing that says,

oh that's a human and not a draft. Really diagnostic, The word diagnostic would mean like nothing else does that, Like, if it has that trait, then it is this. Nothing else is making stone points, nothing else is making slick trick broadheads, nothing else is uh is makinginmag shells. Diet is diagnostic. And I like to bring the hunting, the hunting thing back to kind of this original narrative because it is it is true, like my family eats wild game.

I go out harvest wild game, bring back to my family, provide for them healthy meat, and and in a way, it's a it's a metaphor for leadership, for provision, It's a metaphor for um the way that I want my life to be for them. I want my kids, my wife to be able to say I received resource from this guy because he's he's my protector, he's my shade,

he's my health. And I mean I do the same thing with my I mean my wife is that to me in a lot of ways, Clay, I was just gonna say one of the things, you know, just in communication with with the listeners out there, just the difference between values and definers. You know, you can talk about definers like being a hunter and uh, you know whatever, whatever you might be versus values are things that are

that are who a person is internally. You know, integrity, honesty, hard working, you know, caring, you know those those are the difference. You can't build you can't build a value system on what you do. It's who you are. All right. I'll tell you what I've been thinking just while we were talking about links between all this and hunting, and I realized that one of the biggest like family cultured moments that really shaped us had to do with hunting.

And this was a few years ago. I used to own a couple of acres and it backed up to twenty acres of woods and um, and I figured out I was just kind of tramping around there and found some signs and deer sign. I was like, this is cool, there's deer back in here. Figured out who owned the land and she was like this developer lived in Florida and just didn't care. She's like, yeah, sure, you can hunt on it whatever you want. And um. And this

was a few years ago. I think only had two kids and they were really young, and I I hadn't hunted in a while because I moved up here into honeywhere to go. So I was like, this could be the resurrection of my hunting career. Like yeah, yeah, it's like twenty acres behind my house. Nobody is really hunting it. So I was like, I'll put up so I put a game camera up. Lo and behold there were two bucks regularly through there. One of them was very like,

both of them were shooters. One of them was very large. I was like, holy cow, got a got an automatic feeder up there. Started getting started tracking it more regularly because I did have a limited time just working and taking care of kids. And I started investing more and more time out there. And when I say it's close, I mean this where I was going to put up the stand. I mean it's probably just like yards from

my house. We're less and um. So I was getting all ready to go, and then hunting season was about to start and I was talking to my wife about it. She's really uneasy about it. I was kind of like, yeah, I guess I'll like watch the kids during those mornings and and evening and all the time because probably eaten much wild game either. No, she isn't a huge fan of it, but she knew it was important to me, you know, and so like she she let she let

me go in a sense. But I remember, Um, I just remember when it was finally time to like sit on the stand and go out there and hunt. It just felt off. Man, it just felt it felt off. It felt like like, man, this I know, this seems it seemed like destiny, you know, the land, the buck, it was like perfect. Everything was perfect, and for a plenty of guys and families that might have been perfect, you know, but something felt off. And I remember going I remember coming back and just telling her I was

and she aren't you gonna hunt? It's like I was like, I don't know, I don't it just fills off. I don't know if this is the season for me, And I think right now where the kids are little, like, I think I'll stay here. And it was like the massive weight off of her lifted. She's like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad that you did that. Um, and it it meant so much to her, and it wasn't even like I was doing it just for her. It was like it just fell off. I can't describe. And that sacrifice,

which was a sacrifice at first, it hurt. It was like yally because you know it was I was so close it. What was the sacrifice turned into being a reward because I've built so many great memories with my kids and there was never this from what was right for me was not trying to like to time it like I'm gonna try to like fit in the time of the girls and get to my hunting in It's just like it's not the season for it. And and I know someday it will be. And I know someday

that will be right. And my my oldest daughter, I've already got her interested in hunting. She's like she's about ready to go. She's already into fishing and stuff. I'm really excited. Um, and that'll be a whole different dynamic because it's it's building. Well that's the short term sacrifice term gain. You know, there will be a time when

it's right. And I'm really glad you brought that up because people need to understand timing, you know, like like people like especially people that are inside of like social media Instagram. I mean, you're gonna see you're gonna see all these people posting all the stuff that they're doing, and you're just say, oh, it's the time, you know, I gotta get out there. I gotta get out there. I gotta get out there. Man. There. I didn't hunt like I hunt now when I was at ben stage,

I didn't. And that's the that's the difficulty of social media or comparison, uh, you know of like and and and that's where families can get messed up. And that's where you know, I don't ever want like my my influence to get people to do something, which I'm constantly trying to get people to hunt like that's what I do. But I don't people have to take it and then put it back up against their life and say does this fit? And everybody has a different amount that it fits.

And so when Maliki Nichols felt the Clay Luken push against his family getting a boat, and it's true, it's true, and I think and I think that kind of brings up if you're looking for a tool of how you can build culture inside of your family. It's what being said of like he talked to his wife and wait was released and the side of my my life is like a tool to know is this the way to go? Is communicating with my wife, I's like, are we in the grad Like are we in agreeans in building this?

And and this is direction. So I think that's a to combat the media and the thing that is trying to push you and pull you to go to a certain direction. It's is your team, is your your home unit? In ingredients? Is this is the way we should go? And I think that's a powerful tool to to to navigate. Absolutely, you use and that's a good I'm glad you said that word. You use different things to build family called you use like we could use. I use hunting as

a tool to build values inside of my family. I use hunting as a mechanism to build relationship with them. I mean I spend a ton of time with my kids hunting and the hunting related stuff. If if they were doing other activities, we would not spend the arms reached time together that we do. So it's like I'm using that as a tool and so I mean, you just gotta see if it fits. Is this a tool

to really build something into my family? And I've said this before, like there's this narrative in the hunting community. You know, take your kid hunting and you're you're gonna have this like great kid. That's not true. Hunting is not gonna save your kids. Um, if you have a really strong relationship with your kid and you use hunting as a vehicle for human relationship, then yes, you're it's gonna help your kid. And and that's what I've that's what I've tried to do. And uh and and people

can do that with a lot of different stuff. But you know, for this context we're talking about we're talking about some honey, but using it as a tool. Yeah, I was thinking about this whole thing is sacrificed too, And and talking with our spouses now because I've I've really shown Jessica like I'll sacrifice anything for my family.

Like if I was to go to her and be like, hey, so and so wants me wants to go hunting, that we can you know, we think she'd be like, oh man, it's like she wants to share in that joy because I'm not always trying to do that. You know, she trusts my heart and that I am thinking of her first, you know. And on that note, I went when my dad left fault killed the biggest buck of my life. So it was just kind of worked out. So she likes game now that then she she's she's slowly acquiring it,

she's slowly. Yeah, maybe don't start her out with possum. Maybe not. I'll just say, yeah, we we use dear meat for everything. Yeah, the heat's chilly. Lindsey's school with Yeah, most of them are. I would say all of my wild game eating has happened at the New Conform and that is a true statement. And all of her wild game eating has happened at the New conform that we have been and we have like we still come back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good. Well, um,

I think I've said what I wanted to say. I mean, I just want people if they don't remember anything, or well, what are we what are we gonna say to all the guys that aren't listening anymore? We can talk mad about them because they're not listening. I think they got it all figured out. No, no, we you know the time, Usually on this podcast we're talking to experts about hunting, like and that's what we'd like to talk about. That's

what this context is designed for. But it just seems like with all the stuff going on it was time to have a little bit more serious podcast. And if nothing else, just build your family intentionally. Don't wake up in ten years and realize that there was something that you know you you are building something right now. That's the main thing. You're building something. Make sure it's on purpose and and ultimately, you know. I was reading a book. Well,

I'm gonna say it before. Sometimes I start to say something and then realize there's a big backstory behind it that has to be said. I get into the backstory and I forget what I was originally gonna say. I'm doing it now. Okay, okay, I'm doing it now. Um. I read a book. Uh, real famous author from the eighteen hundreds, Stevenson, you wrote. I can't remember what he wrote, but I'm reading this book called Travels with a Donkey. It's a little bitty book written in like old English.

And uh, and this guy said he said a quote that I liked because it's true. I think it's true. He said that the reward of life is a man's friends. Yuh. He it was really beautifully written, and that's just but he said, the reward of life is a man's friends. And it's so It's so true and I've been saying it for a while, is that hunting would have little value if it weren't for friends that we could share

stuff with. It really is. I mean, I don't care if you're like the biggest, baddest hunter on Instagram and you you know, you you receive a lot of stuff from your friends and even your haters. Like there there's there's a lot of um. So a lot of our value that we get from stuff happens from being able to share it, you know. And uh, and that's the way it's supposed to be. We're such you know, I think sometimes we we missed that point. Is that, like

we really ought to be experts at human relationship. That's how that's that's big success and a lot of areas of life. It's the hardest wildlife team. Yeah, yeah, it is. Well, we just did a podcast a few days ago with some biologists and they said the guy said, uh, he said he had heard a biologists say I use more of what I learned in the bar dealing with humans

as a bartender. I'm not promoting bartending. Um. Then he did use his wildlif biology to he's a wildlipologist with me all the guys are just like half grinning looking at me, going like what he's saying. He was saying, as a wildli biologist, he manages people more than he actually manages science of biology. Dealing with people. Yeah, closing comments, Guys, what are your thoughts? What do what do? What do we? What do we need to say? We're done? I think

I think we wanna. What I want to communicate is just you know, you're not alone. You know you need people, and uh. The great thing is is that is that experience is something that that someone can share. You know, it's not just something that you have that you can't give away. And I think I think that that we've

had some good experience. We've made some bad decisions, but we've made some good decisions too, and uh, you know, for for Clay and I who who are kids are it and older we've seen the the benefit of the sacrifices and the decisions that we've made. And uh and you know watching Ben lead his girls and you see the good fruit and you see where um, there's decisions where you could have made that that would have been better for them, and so we want to be able

to share that with people. Um, to know that that there's a way to do it that that really produces good fruit. You know, my wife talks a lot about um, you know, having kids is like having an orchard and you you plant and you fertilize and you water and uh you know, now our kids are getting to the age where we're just picking the fruit and enjoying it, and uh, you know, I think I think we want that for everybody out there to really have a family

that that you can enjoy. There's nothing worse than not liking your own family, you know, or would rather be somewhere else than with your own family, or friends that won't go in with on a boat. Yeah, nobody wants a friend like that. But yeah, anyway, it's worth it. The investment is worth It's the best investment you can make. Clo thought, Yeah, I just to I was thinking about how when people think talk about parenting, a lot of times the focus is on not just parenting the culture.

The focus is on like behavior. And I think what I want to say is that you are the family culture. It starts with you. I'm saying you to like everybody like and me, it starts there and before you can expect because when you start, especially with small kids, are like, how on the world I get him to stop screaming their head on? You know, You're like all these behaviors

you want to fix. It's like, well, start with you and what you gotta do with and and I know that, um and I shared this analogy with you other day. But I just bought a puppy recently. He's a registered Brittany beautiful dog. I'm really proud of him. Started training him. It's I'm not making my bird dog and just trained him as a family pet. And I've trained dogs before, And huh, why didn't you get a scroll dog? I've interacted Instagram posts about pets. Go ahead, I was actually

gonna bring him in here about in your office? Sudden I thought about bringing him. He's sitting at home alone right now. But anyway, UM, so I've trained dogs before, and it back when I was younger. I remember it was all about how do I get him to do blank? How are I gonna do that? But it was all about the behavior. And I was sharing you with this, you sharing this with you the other day of how it's like now that I've parented, it's like my perspectives

totally different towards the dog. Like all I've been doing is is like communicating to him that I care about him and that I'm his authority figure almost just like can I get this dog to know me and respect me? And it's just totally different, And it's like and it's made the training easier because there's already a relationship. And that's why dogs. I love dogs, is because they are relation on with him and so much more than other pets.

But I was like, goally, that's just like with my kids, Like I don't actually to me, it's not really it's important of this their behavior as much as like do they know my heart? And so I've got to I've got to focus on that versus, you know, trying to get them straighten up or whatever. Mr nils I would say, I'm a very practical guy, and I think you can hear this podcast and think where do I start right and you try to maybe take a big bite of

I'm gonna build family culture. I think it's just starting just one decision, what do you value and and focus on that for the next two months. It's like, if you want to value communication, focus on being more communicative with your wife and with your children right. If you want to, if you want to value being, having a servant heart and serve people, focus on that for for the next month or two months. It's not taking a big chunk of life and let me build family culture

and family values. But it's just make one right decision each day, make the next right decision, make the next right decision, and then you wake up ten years so now and you realize you built something right, and we as humans are naturally designed to build something, but it takes one step out of time. Yeah, that's good. Great, Well, thanks guys, Thanks time appreciative. May I just want to say to you really know how to how to treat a podcast guest, to that breakfast this morning? You treat

all your podcast guests that way. No, oh wow, special all past podcasts guests breakfast. No, no, don't tell him, don't tell him. All right, guys, man, I'm trying to think there was something I was going to you out. That's it. We're done. Keep the wild places wild because that's where the bears live.