EP 12 - Legendary Bear Hound Foundations with Steve Fielder

Welcome one and all back to the Bear Hunting Magazine Huntcast. Today, we're joined again by none other than lifelong houndsman and host of the Gunde of the Dogs podcast, mister Steve Fielder. Steve wrote an article in the January February twenty twenty three issue of Bear Hunting Magazine about the foundations of all of the hound breeds that are typically ran on

bear today. As we found out in the last episode, Steve was a part of the Dog Registries for over thirty years and he definitely knows some history behind these breeds. And one of the things we'll figure out inside of this spoiler alert is that a lot of the breeds have quite a bit in common as far as recent ancestors. All Right, without further ado, let's get into it here, Steve.

of these coonhound breeds. There are six breeds, and just briefly, you know, the black and Tan, the blue tick, the English coonhound, the plot hound, the redbone, and the tree walker were the six fundamental breeds. The first breed that was recognized and by the kinner clubs and law was a dog that basically was the dog of the colonists,

the settlers. And this was a dog that they called the black and tan simply because it was a black dog with tan or reddish points along its legs and the sides of its head and so forth, but predominantly black. And these came, you know, from the Talbot and Saint Hubert hounds and all that dated all the way back to the after the Norman invasion in the eleventh century. There they came from from France and then from England and they were brought to this country and they quickly

adapted to trailing. You know, the game animals that were here in Europe there were no raccoons to tree. Many of the fur bears that we have in this country were not existent there, but they were easily adapted. And you know, they were kind of like the bedrop breed, but they've gone through an evolution. You know. They were a large breed, a heavy boned, deep voiced, but not very quick on trail. As I said in the article, black and tens are not really the most popular of

breeds for bear hunting. But I've done some articles about some really incredible black and tan bear dogs. I remember doing one about a dog that marrolled money up in Wisconsin and Minnesota that was a tremendous bear dog. Some of the dogs that I've written about even lately, the Luther Dog of Scott McLoughlin's I think that's coming out was a black and tan colored dog.

a pure bred black and tan. Scott McLoughlin said when describing his bear hound of a Lifetime. You should get the current issue of Bear Hunting magazine. And this is a shameless pluck, but seriously, you hound guys, just check out the cover of this magazine and you'll be sold. All Right, I'm done, Let's get back to Steve.

a trade of the black dog. You know, he was a dog that you could free cast in the mountains, which means, you know, you turn him loose, you lead the other dogs, and when he would find a track and make progress on it, then you could release dogs to help him with it. But Sounder was quite a producer of good bear dogs, and he looked like a purebread black and tan. But when you looked at a

little of pup city sired, they were all colors. Red tick, blue tick, solid red, you know, black and white, spotted like a walker dog.

the blue tick was one of those. And the English coonhound typically has what we call a red tick pattern, and it's really just little specs of hair on a white background, and some of them are more dnse than the others, and it kind of in the case of the blue ticket, gives that blue tick look. But before I get too deep in the weeds here, those three breeds, the blue tick, the tream walker, and the English, in

the mid forties were separated out into individual breeds. So it was at that time, around nineteen forty six that the blue tick coonhound was recognized by United Kennel Club.

And they also descended from the foxhounds that came from England, and the General Lafayette gave some of these blue tick colored foxhounds to George Washington, who was a fox hunter, of course, and they generally traced their background back to these French hounds, the big and there's a breed called the blue Gascon, which is a taller bigger houndier as we say, breed, you know than the American blue tick

are the one that you know, we typically recognize. But yeah, blue ticks have been known for the ability to trail and when you go back and look at the early successful lion hunters, dry ground lion hunters in this country, uh, the the kind of dogs that the Lee Brothers of Arizona uh hunted and so forth. You know, there was a lot of blue tick influence in in those dogs.

Blue ticks are very popular, they're they're not, but you know, the ones that are used in raccoon hunting and in competition have been bred to be much quicker afoot, you know, speedier dogs than the old original ones were pretty much you know, meticulous trailers. You know, they didn't worry too much about uh when they got that lion track jumped or that bear track jump. But when you know, they were more useful in the fact that they could smell

it when the other dogs could not. You know. But yeah, the blue tick is is, you know, has been just one of the the h go to breeds or or anchor breeds for most anybody that especially hunts mountain lion on dry ground or bear out in the Huntred with Calvin Redhouse out in the Navajo Nation. And you know he has some blue tick and type dogs in his back.

and coon hounds. Was in the forties that people with the foxhound influence in the English dogs that came out of the Kentucky hounds, the Walker family and various ones and all they wanted to have their own separate breeds, and gentlemen named Lester Nance of Indiana pursued this idea with the United Kennel Club to separate out and call these foxhound type coonhounds walker dogs after the Walker family,

and that's how the term tree and Walker came. But they were originally English coonhouns or registered as such, as were the Blue Ticks. And so when they all separated out and there were three separate breeds the English coonhound was the one that, you know, it was kind of the foundation of these other two breeds. But they had a more flexible standard as far as the colors of

the dogs. You know, the dogs could be blue tick color, they could be red tick color, they could be white with red spots, white with black spots, virtually any hound color except solid colors. They didn't want them to look like black and tans. They didn't want them to look like the red bone, which we haven't talked about yet. But they were more concerned with the ability of the dog than they were in trying to create a uniform hound that someone could you know, glance at and say

that's an English coonhound. But yeah, there were always one of the most popular in coon hunting. There's been a lot of outstanding English coonhounds down through the years. And I did a story for you in the Legendary bar Dog series about the Armstrong Hounds over in western Virginia. I did an article about the dog, a dog named Trey, and he was an outstanding bar dog and he belonged to Buck Armstrong. The Armstrong family were known for many years as having top bear dogs that were very dedicated

bear hunters. I really enjoyed the opportunity to do the story on Trey the English dog, because I had heard of the armstrong dogs from my earliest memories as a kid going on the bear hunts with my dad, and I knew, you know, people, and I saw offspring of these dogs in action, and they were tremendous sounds. And so to be able to do a story about one of these sounds in this dog tray, which was a phenomenal dog in his own right, you know, he had

had all the all the tools, as we say. But so the English, you know, they're kind of a potpourri breed. You know, you got a lot of different colors and things like that, but they're pretty much descended down from the English fox hounds that came to this country with the earliest colonists. You know, if you.

the road can happen. But the legend was, and as John Jackson called it, the saga was that, you know, the plot dog came from Germany, brought to this country in at about seventeen fifty by a couple of boys. Actually two boys left Germany, where their father was a gameskeeper there, and brought some dogs with them. One of the boys died on the past passage over the other one, Johannas or Johanna's Plot, is credited with bringing the dogs

to America. Came into Philadelphia, migrated down to North Carolina and then later onto the mountains of North Carolina. And that's where these dogs were used, you know, primarily for bear hunting. And so the plot dog, unlike the foxhound route and so forth. He basically was bred from his earliest days for big game and that's what most of

them are used for. They're not the most popular breed in terms of numbers in the registries, but they are extremely popular with a good number of bear hunters, especially in the East. Now, I don't think the plot hound perhaps caught on as well out west as a bear dog as they did in the East, and I rather think part of that may have been due to the nose factor. There were kind of two basic lines of Plots.

If you go back into the Plot family, John Plot, the elder brother to vaunt On Plot, who was the youngest h John like the shorter eared, quicker, harder fighting type dog, Von Plot like the bigger dog, perhaps the colder nosed, houndier looking dog. But the Plot got a bad rap when they were first, you know, introduced to the country in about the mid forties, at of being you know, aggressive, too aggressive, aggressive with other dogs and

so forth. We never found that to be true in all the years my father was a breeder for fifty years and all, but that was the rep that they got, kind of like what pit bulls carrying in some circles and I think it was that part of it was the color, you know, that brindle color, and they do have a fierce look from their eyes. And when they get you know, there is a gentline hide transformation from being the couch dog to the to the bear dog.

You know, they are absolutely turned the switch on and they don't turn it off until that game is down or up the tree or they're led away. But you know, they are vicious fighters on game, and they have a super treeing instinct. They like water, they're quick to learn

or you know, and they're open trailing. You know, their voices tend to be run more towards what we call a chop voice, which they cut the barks off in short links, rather than drawing them out, which we call a ball mouth b a w L. But yeah, plots would probably be in the be lost to the mountains of North Carolina had it not been for guys like Dale Brandenburger, a coon hunter and Illinois a farmer that went out and bought stock and brought them back and

began to rent run ads in the coonhal magazines about the dogs, and then they became immensely popular. But my favorite breed always will be I guess you know. The old sin is you ought to dance with the one that brung you, you know, And so that's kind of where I am. I still love a plot dog, I love them all. I love all hounds deep down, but the plot will always have a special place with me.

Tan the Red Bone and the tree Walker. But the early red bones were not that trademark solid red color. They were a black dog with red legs, perhaps white feet, white in their chest, and just through selective breeding down through the years, you know, they became the solid red dogs that that we have. You know, I did an article and I slay his name all the time, but Bill Derrazuski is a professional main guide that hunted red bones, and we did an article about his redbone. It was

called the dog was called McDonald's Rooster Cogburn. I guess that was named after John Wayne movie and the dog was owned by mac McDonald who was a client of Bills. But anyway, rooster was quite an impressive bear dog. And there have been several others. Uh. There's a guy named Connie Gibson in North Carolina that has hunted a predominantly

an exclusively redbone packed on bear for many years. So the Redbone, you know, was a coon own of course, as we knew, and from reading Wilson Rawls's account in Where the Redbern Grows but also adapted well to bear hunting. Uh there, you know, it depends on the strain. But you know, they're smart, and they're have all the traits that the other hound breeds have, but they have been more popular with the coon downs and the coon hunters

than they have with the bear hunters. But red bones are typically good tree dogs and they are are good

trail dogs. The only problem that the red dog has suffered down through the years, it's probably altered its ability somequa is the fact that they're so beautiful and that so many people acquired them just from reading the book and actually didn't earnestly breathe them, you know, for hunting, and so it's kind of like the Irish I won't say that to that extreme at all, but the beautiful Irish setter was once a great bird dog, and because of its beauty and the fact it was taken into

the show ring and bread for that instead of hunting quail or pheasants or whatever. You know, it became hard and probably still his heart to find a classic Irish setter that you can take out to the field and have a good day shooting birds. But breadbones, I would rank them kind of the middle of the road. You know. They're not on the high end, they're not on the low end. They're just a good, solid, steady hound. And if you get a good one, you've really got a

good dog. And if you go back and read the story of Rooster of Matt McDonald's, was just that kind of dogs. Yeah dog, he said, you know that he could go out and cold trail a track that no other dog could even smell. And you know, and a lot of times, says we said earlier, he was the only dog under the tree, you know, so he had the complete package.

the hound breeds. About nineteen forty five, after World War Two, when all the boys came home, they got involved and created a competition for coonhounds that they called the Night Hunt, and the early winters of those events, although the redbone coonhound at the very onset of those events was the star,

they really were popular. But as Tom went along the contests, when the rules were written, it favored the dog that was fast, the dog that had the speed, that the one that could hunt out to find a track the fastest,

run that track to the tree the fastest. And then they were a little bit short on the treeing instinct in the early years, But through perseverance, the breeders spread more tring ability into the dogs, and the walkers became, you know, early winners of world championship events and so forth, and just you know, year after year just built upon that base and became the most popular of all the breeds. And when I was a kid, i say, or a young hunter up into my twenties, you rarely saw a

tring walker dog in a bare pack, especially in the Appalachians. Rare, But now you see guys that are hunting entire packs of a tree walker dogs and so there's been a you know, kind of an evolution there. And I think you know, Kirk Rogers was a guy that I mentioned in this article that you've referred to a professional main guide. You know, it has built his entire pack upon what we call house bread treeing walkers. That was the work

of a breeder named Joe House. But uh, and there's a lot of other other guys out there that are hunting strictly walker packs now. But the same thing on bear that has uh that distinguished them as coon dogs was their speed, their h and they're determined, you know, a tree walker dog going back to those old foxhound routes where they would run a red fox all night long, from from sundown to son up. You know, that kind of of heart and determination and the athleticism. You know,

it's made them a natural. At first, they kind of got a bad rap about not having the grit that they needed. And in terms of bear dogs, that's something we haven't talked about very much, Kobe, but there's a balance. You know, you can have too much grit in a bar dog you're gonna spend a lot of time in the vet or worse, you're gonna spend a lot of time in a breeding pen, breeding more dogs or buying more dogs to replace the ones that had too much grit.

A good bear dog is an intelligent bear dog. He's a smart fighter. He's a a boxer. He's not a TV wrestler, you know. He and you know, one of the best bear dogs that we had, and I think I wrote a story about her at one point, was a female named Julie. And she never got a she would never get a mark on her, you know. She she was just very very smart. Bade a bear very close on the ground, but was more like a mosquito

than she was an alligator. You know, she is harassed a bear, and I think they just said, man, this is enough of this. I'm going up a tree. But but yeah, the walkers are great anything you use them for. A lot of guys are running them and some of them are crossing them, you know, with other breeds and so forth. But one of the older breeders there, one of the guy that was really responsible for them being name eamed tree Walker Leicester Nance. His dogs have excelled

as bear dogs. Some of them were taken out west early on, and you know, and have done very well. So the nance in a n CE bread walker dogs are well known as bear dogs.

see in h oh all kinds of breeds. You see the Meurle coloration and the Shetland sheep dogs and various ones. It's more of splotches of black on a background with you know, they're very colorful they're beautiful dogs. They can't yeah. Now they can come black and tan color and maybe solid yellow to look like old yellow. But the popular color and the most common is this murle color. And it can be a red murle, more of a liver colored, or it can be a blue murle which leans more

toward the bluish castle like a blue tip. But they're very beautiful dogs. But I had the opportunity to hunt with two that came from Richard mcduffy. I'm not sure if they were brothers. The big reddish murle dog was called stub and as some of them do, these leopard haounds, some of them do have a natural bobtail, and so

he got his name from his tail. And the other one was called Rattler, and he had the blue murle pattern, which kind of looked more like one of those old timber rattlesnakes you know that we had back in back in the Appalachians. But they were both good bear dogs, coal trailers, ran hard, ran up front with the other dogs. Uh you know, uh, tenacious on a bade up bear. So yeah, that breed. I don't know how many people are concentrating on hunting leopard hounds on bear, But I'm sure that's.

some time with Richard mcduffy, this long time breeder. There's another fellow named Lamar Meeks that was a longtime breeder, and so you know, there were pockets of these dogs around the country. I think maybe several of them, you know, down in Louisiana in the cane breaks where they hunt the hogs, you know, with dogs, and through across the South,

and you probably find more of them that way. You don't see them very often in the coonhound events, so I know they're not being used in any great numbers as coonhound. I would say the same is probably true with the bear dogs. They're out there, they're being used by some hunters.

cur dog category, uh. And I think that's why UKC was careful to name the dogs that they went after, the registered leopard hounds, to distinguish them from that leopard curve deal. So most guys on the street, so to speak, would classify the leopard as a cur dog. But really there's been a concentrated effort to preserve those with hound traits and breed them to others with those same traits to establish, you know, a leopard colored hound, and that's what that's what we see.

And I think that comes more from just breeding. What we typically said in the old addage and breeding coonhouses, just breeding coon dog to coon dog, meaning the best to the best, you know, And that was the breeding tool for many years, and it proved to be a good one, but it wasn't always good and it didn't always produce results. I'm a guy that likes to breed along family lines, you know, a family of dogs within

a within a breed. You know. The old bear hunter in Virginia, Lance Hunting holds a couple of degrees in animal science and genetics and things like that. He always said, you know, you family breed to establish your line, you outcross to get your outstanding individuals. But if you can outcross to a family bread line of dogs other than the one you had. Then that's the icing on the cake. So a lot of these breeders, you know, Lance was able to establish a long line of really good bear dogs.

And the foundation was breeding a black and tan female to a treeing walker male, and so that's being done. And then out in the West Oregon, Mike Kemp has had much success in breeding the running hown, the running foxhowl into you know, coonhound breeds and producing dogs that do very well in bear hunting. Of course they're crossbread dog.