Ep. 93: Bear Grease [Render] - River Gauges, Thermal Vision, and the Death of Tecumseh

These are lacrosse straight up snake boots. They kind of look they kind of have a cowboy boot, but kind of with a non aggressive heel, leather, square toe. They come up like all the way almost to your knee, but they put on easier than a rubber boot. Their waterproof and when you wear them you feel like you've got armor on your legs. Yeah, I really like them. When he was doing no, it was cold. We're at six thousand feet elevation, so it was it was it

was very cold up there. Well, we have a very eclectic group here at the Beargreas Renter today, none of which are qualified to be here based upon good looks, education, accomplishments, in life, speak for yourself or no, just kidding, the least of which isn't To my left, Lauren Malten, long time meat Eater videographer correct four years. Yeah, Yeah, traveled all over all over with all different varieties of meteor folks. Great to have you, Lauren, Thanks for having me. Yeah.

To Lauren's left, the illustrious Britt Reeves, good to be here, Brett, good to see you, man, Good to be seen. To Brent's left. That's the Wait a minute, that's it. That's the only intro you get today. Yeah, to Brent's left. This will greatly reflect my participation in today's endevor go ahead. You want me to talk about your outfit again? I think of what's the brand overalls roundhouse with a coon fob and as pocket watch. We're in a first light shirt.

That's pretty sassy. Do your left, Michael Roseman. Michael, you've been on the Burger shrun before, haven't you? Yes, on the where the red farm grows. So Michael is the owner of sun spot Lights, which were the they're the coon lights h that we use all the time. That if you see me or Brent wearing a light a hard hat with a big old light. That's a sun Spotlight, Arkansas based company. Yes, and they are super bright, man, I tell people NonStop. People people challenge me about lights,

like I'll be at a camp. It's happened more than once and they're like, oh, I got a good light and I'm and I'm just like really, and we've stepped out and you know, turn the lights on and coon hunters have the market on the most powerful lights in the world. Are you like Crocodile Dundee when that guy pulls a knife on it, that's not a knife, this is not a that's not a light. This is a light, and you pull out that sun spot. Yeah. We found out a couple of nights ago that he would win

more of those battles if he charges lights. Yeah. Yeah, I learned a little bit about about these that from the time you start using that, I thought they just powered all the way through until they went dead and they just died. But they but they dim some some coon hunting lights just cut out. Um. I didn't never. I never liked that. No one wants to be standing there thinking your lights fully charging and being the dark. So it's slowly dims, it doesn't start dimming until about

the four or five hour mark. After that it starts to slowly dim and and it's a gradual dim. I mean, you couldn't even tell yours wasn't charged until you shined it next to one that was charged. Yeah. I hardly ever charged mine because it doesn't it doesn't need it, you know, hunt or I use it every day, feeding my dogs, going outside, doing stuff at night, especially you know in the winter when it gets dark early. I'm I'm dead serious. I keep it by the door. I

use it every day and turn it on. But it's great to have, Michael. We're gonna come back to that. To Michael's left, Big Dirty Dave Gardener from Montana, How you doing, man, good? Big dirty? And I go way back. Uh, David is hunted with me in Oklahoma for white tails for two years, hunted in Montana a couple of well

once maybe so Arkansas, Arkansas all this time. So what we're doing is we're down here filming a coon and squirrel hunt and uh we're staying in East Arkansas over here on the White River and uh, white rivers coming up, White rivers like flood stage. Is that right, Michael? Yeah, I forget it. Thirty three ft flood stage, here's six. Okay, explain to me these river levels there it seems like it would be zero, would be like normal. What they

whatever they determined for normal? But that's not true? Well where where is? Where does what does thirty three mean? Unless you're here and you just know, oh, thirty three high water? What doest? I couldn't tell you that accurate answer to that. I know that they have that when when you check the water levels, you check flood stage

and whatever the nominal level for the river is. It's inside those parameters, you know, if it's it's between this, between two numbers there, it's deep enough to traverse, or it's too or it gets too shallow and you can't drive a boat, so it's got I can't tell you that if I don't know if that comes from core engineers, like you know, given channel depth, average channel depth or not.

I don't know. That's something for the for the Google, there's a there's a gauge under the river that you can look at that has uh hash marks for feet under yeah, under the bridges that generally on any river will equate to a cubic feet per second. A volume of of cubic feet per second of water moving by one particular spot. So the volume when they say thirty three six whatever, it is different. Different rivers have different gauges, right, but it's always in the United States gauged by cubic

feeper So that doesn't mean like elevation. It'll equate to elevation on that gauge. That's how they tell like, Okay, here's flood stage, here's like major flood okay, h Dave, Yeah, yeah, I mean I think I think, like the foot gage, a lot of that probably goes back to before they were able to probably calculate out cfs. And so I've seen a lot of places it's just like a foot gage on a bridge, right, and so there will just be marks on a bridge like like a was sand.

And so this is probably one place on the White River where there's a bridge and it well, there's gotta be zero has gotta mean something because we're saying, oh, the river's thirty three ft, and then if you're around here for fifty years, you know, oh, thirty three ft it's flood stage. Normal is like twenty four ft. One of gage that you use here is looking at the back door because if there's water creeping up in your

backyard there it is right there. Yeah, because behind this cabin is a porch that hangs off and there's boat cleats on a deck that's probably eight or nine feet off the ground. So gauge it that way too. Yeah. The floods here interesting In the Ozarks of flood would be like a flash flood like you'd be. It would

be heavy rain and gushing fast water, dangerous water. Here flood is it could be a beautiful Usually a flood doesn't come till after a storm's come through and it's bluebird skies and the weather is beautiful and the river's just slow, really inching up water, you know, at least where it's backwater and out slow water. But we've been squirrel hunting, coon hunting. We we had I'd say we had a good, a real good squirrel hunt, other than getting flooded out from some of our better spots. What

do you guys think? Yeah, I thought it was really good. Killed quite a few squirrels, had a good time. Guys. What y'all think of squirrel hunting? Dave and uh and Lauren head and squirrel hunter before now, lots of action which is great. Usually on a hunt filming, you're kind of waiting for that moment, you know, nine days in Alaska, waiting for him. Yeah, seeing the animal from way off. But squirrel hunts live action quick same with coon's was

pretty fun. It's definitely one of the more action packed hunts i'd filmed. Pretty fun. You know, the first day, what you guys killed twelve squirrels. I don't think I've been on a duck hunt where we've killed twelve ducks. And yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's a lot of fun, a lot of fun. And then we coon hunted at night, hunted Brent's dog, and then we hunted uh, one of Michael's dogs. And we're hunting as good at coon hunting

as there is in the these United States anywhere. Yeah, you know that there are raccoons in Europe, but they're an invasive species. Um. They brought them into Germany. They have a large population in Germany. They probably caused them just as much ruck us over there as they are over here, killing just as many virgin Ist Yep. What was the uh impetus of bringing them to Germany? Why would you Probably the same reason people brought all kinds

of weird stuff over here. Just it was a novel animal that they could carry around, maybe even brought it over for for hunting. Do you know, Michael, Um, I'm from what I understand it was one of Hitler's chancellors that whatever he was over the wildlife, thought they were fascinating, brought them up return. That's don't quote me on that, but that's what that's sounds good to me. I'm wrong all the time. You never know, you never know. Sounds good. Um, Well,

a few housekeeping things. March four in Bentonville, Arkansas is the Black Bear Bonanza. It's a one day event that is gonna it's it's like action packed vendors Arkansas gaving fishes there. I know Bear Hunting Magazine is gonna be there, a bunch outdoor vendors. We're gonna do a live render podcast in front of all the people that are there. Last year there was like four people. We're gonna do al hooton contest of which Brent Reeves is the MC.

And just so if fair warning to oh you contestants, Clay is a judge and he's not grading on the curve and spelling counts. He's pretty judgy about this whole al Houghton thing. Yeah, I was a judge last year. I got fired, yeah or promoted however you want to look at that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We we totally add some unqualified judges there last year. So uh, I'll be

one of the judges. Bread's gonna be the m C. The winner gets uh a genuine coonskin cap made by Josh Lambridge spillmaker from one of the Coons that some Coons that that we killed the Ozarks a couple of years ago. So that's a big, big prize. And this all kind of fun stuff. Now here's here is here is the the addition to that, which is a wild

edition unannounced up until this point. Friday, March the third, in Bentonville at a location to be announced, We're gonna do a pre pre screening of the film that we made about Warner Glenn. It's it's a it's gonna be a bear Grease film, and so you will be at some point in the near future people will be able to buy tickets to this pre screened film. And it's

it's sponsored by our buddies at Audex. They're they're paying for us to have this venue and the sad news is there's only two hundred tickets and when they're gone, they're gone. So there's two hundred spots in this theater. And so when the link goes up, just first come, first served. They're gonna be groceries with that ticket too. Yeah, it will announce all all that's going on. But me and Brent will be there. I know that for sure.

We're gonna watch this film. The film is only, you know, twenty two minutes long, but we'll be doing some fun stuff. It will probably end up being a couple of hours, the whole thing. But so March the heard so the night before the Black Bear Bonanza in Bentonville gonna be big. We're gonna give the money that we any money that we make to the Black Bear Bonanza Arkansas, b h A. Guys, so mark your calendars. Would be a whole good weekend

right there. It's sure will, It's sure will. Well. So this is the burg Rease Render where we talk about for somebody who's new, the previous week's barg Rease podcast, and we've come to the end of our series on two COMPSA. I feel like a burden has really been lifted off my shoulders, I really do. I think I started my two comes to research a year and a half ago, like six months into starting the bargh Rease podcast.

I remember where I was at when I heard. I was listening to an audio book, one of Alan Eckert's audio books, just where the idea came. Yeah, I was listening to the Frontiersman, and he talked about two Coomsa being born on the night that this comment flashed across the sky in Ohio, and they saw it, and they they named him two Coompsa, which based loosely translates to panther crossing the sky. And I didn't know any I didn't know much about two Coomesa. You know, It's it's

not like I was just born knowing about Takomsa. I didn't know much about him. I would have known his name. I would have known that there were always thought it was odd that there was a lot of businesses and stuff like two come some motors. Um, there's a lot of two combs of stuff around the country. I knew he was a Native American leader. I didn't know much about him, but when I heard that, I thought, I just immediately knew we need to do a whole Bear

Grease podcast on this guy. And it started researching and started trying to find the right guys, and it was difficult to connect with all the people that this podcast entailed now and it's when it was complete. And that was the challenge, is I was going to do a podcast on two come, so, like you know, I figured within three or four months of me first hearing about him, like,

I'll read a book and I'll get this guy. And I just kept finding difficulty getting getting the people, getting the people, getting the people, and I would get one guy, but I would need a little bit more and get another guy. And so it ended up being the most work I've ever put into a podcast, which is kind of cool because you have a lot of time to think about it and getting all these different perspectives was unique,

and I think it made for a good podcast. But I feel almost relieved in a good way that the story is now out there and not there was out there before, but we told it on Burglaries. So the third one is done. Brent, in the whole series, what what stood out to you because you hadn't been on the last two, was there anything on the other ones that stood out? To you, it is all intriguing. And I learned a whole lot of stuff on on all

of them. But to me, the tip of the spear, the the culmination of the whole thing was was Chief Barnes is stuff. Man. That guy is so insightful and and so he can he easily explains the thoughts and stuff in a viewpoint that I had never considered. And it wasn't because I was. It wasn't important to me. It was just I couldn't see it from his view and the way they talked about the individuals and the difference in and putting two come to on a pedestal

when he wouldn't. He wouldn't have been up there by himself. There was a lot of guys doing that kind of stuff, and he was. He was naming names of people in his culture that were as significant, if not more so, than to come to and names I've never heard, and I thought, man, that's that's sad. And it has inspired me to do a lot of a lot more research. But I think his participation in it. Without him being in that, it wouldn't have been nearly as good as

it was. And I absolutely loved it. I like this one better than the Daniel Boone. Did you really really? I did you know? Here's what I was so impacting to me sitting across from Ben Barnes and we did this interview back in two I think I said that on there. But this guy is like to come so, I mean, he's a leader inside of the Shawnee Nation. He would he would stand just right beside those guys. And I'm not necessarily talking about his accomplishments or not.

I'm just saying he is the leader, a leader in the Shawnees Shawnny nation. That's goes right back to the lineage of comes really not that far back, and and just really interesting. And I was, yeah, super intelligent guy. And you saw his heart inside of it his heart. You know, sometimes when you hear a political leader and and I mean that's what you would call him. I mean, in today's world, he has to be a political leader.

And a lot of times when you hear some politician talk, I mean, every single one of us can be like that guy's full of it. Well, you know that that guy has interests that are not always of the purest Well he's talking, he's pandering too, trying to get the large majority of this guy is talking to a group of people, and his talking points and stuff. I don't think those were vetted by um a communications room somewhere

in another state. That that was all coming out of his head and out of his heart, that was important to his people and to the point that he was trying to get across, and it was you could just tell he was genuine to me. To me, it seemed that way. I think it was. And I don't understand all the I mean, I'm not inside the politics of of these Indian nations, so you know, we just had this one glimpse. But yeah, when he was when I asked him, I said, what what is the what is

the what? There were two questions. I said, what would a Shawnee nation look like that you would be happy with? And he he took it right back to the people. He said, We've got people, We've got Shawinese in fifty states, and I want them to know that they have a cultural home and that that idea of home seems to be really powerful inside the the the Indian nations because they were removed from their home. And you know, it's been a long time ago, but really in human history,

a couple hundred years is not that long Michael. What did you say to me the other day We were talking about some historical figure and and you said, well, I think we were talking about something about the Civil War, and you said, well, that guy's granddad was in the Civil War. Well, no, it was slavery soul. My mother died early and a black lady helped raise me when I was a teenager. And her mother's mother was born

a slave, so her grandmother was born a slave. So the lady, the lady that helped raise your grandmother, her grandmother, her grandmother. Yeah, so you know people that knew people that where it's just not that long ago, right, So you just add another great or two to that, and there you are with you know, oh yeah, Well, I mean, if if the Coms had lived out a full life, you know, he would have, you know, potentially died. You know,

he's forty five. If he didn't live another thirty years, you know, he would have been almost in the eighteen forties or or something like that. It's not that long ago. It really isn't, man, Because it takes a while to sort those things out, and we don't realize it, but we're sorting stuff out that happened inside of our worlds that we aren't even cognizance of, you know. But yeah,

that's powerful stuff. Um. And one of the most interesting things to me and the whole thing was Dr Dave Edmond's talked about how the removal and this is going back to Chief Barnes saying that he feels like his job is to undo the negative effects of their removal, which I thought that was interesting. I didn't anticipate him saying that. But Dave Edmonds and maybe part one or part two, he talked about how removal from land was very different than a Westerner's worldview of removal from land

because their religions are site specific. Um. I'm reading a book right now about It's it's it's kind of an autobiography. Yeah, it's an autobiography of a well, it's complicated. Basically, a guy wrote a book and it's about Native Americans. And there's a part in the book where this guy describes what he's seen, okay, and he talks about the mountain and he talks about the sunlight going through these trees that have frost on them, in the frost glistens, and

he talks about a river down below him. Well he this book was critiqued bye by Cherokee Indians. In this book the right, the guy that right, and it was supposed to be a Cherokee. The Cherokee said, if it's real Cherokee had written that, he would have named the mountain, he would have named the river. He would have been much more specific than a generic mountain, more reverent to what he was looking at. You. Well, it just just specific because to that spot, to that place, like that

mountain would have meant so much to them. And it ties back to the site specific stuff. So if you just uproot this culture and put it down somewhere else and like here's some good land, it's different. And and you know, I contrasted that, and it's kind of a simple. It's pretty simple. So it's probably not entirely accurate. But these Europeans were coming over and they had been pushed

out of their land. They've been pushed out and so they've had some bad stuff happened to them too, and but they had this kind of utilitarian ideology of land and they didn't have any connected historical connection of this land, and they were just happy to get it. It's just interesting stuff, interesting stuff, Chief Ben Barnes, good, big, dirty. What did anythink stand out to you? And in the whole series, there's there's definitely a few things that stood out.

I think that the interesting thing to me was how uh yeah, like we're talking about he was, he played a role that was needed at that time in the community. And I think that's just so different than you know, especially in the United States today, Like we're highly individualistic culture and we're not always looking into like pursuing something

that is what our community needs around us. Is there certainly are those people doing that, but uh yeah, it's just a very different at least from the way I lived my life pursuing a creative career. It's kind of a highly selfish pursuit, you know. So well, some good, good lessons to to take away from that, but I I have in my notes here that the I think

it's hard for us to even comprehend. Really, it's hard for me to really comprehend even what the Chief was saying, because it's such an odd place to be a human because you're you're looking through life out of these two eyeballs that you have that you were given that and you're the way you view out of those eyeballs is important and and has some element of correctness to it.

It's interesting too if you can, if you can detach yourself from that enough to understand the perspective of somebody vastly different, then you're it's like, wow, I had no idea that there was even another option. And the this idea of a of a of a community being important. You know that it's not like that died with the Shawnees. That is very much the world view of most of the indigenous hunter gatherer tribes and and honestly some of the a lot of a lot of places still on

the earth today view. For example, I had somebody write this in I thought this was really interesting. He was talking about he lived in This guy lived in China for years, and he said that when you address a letter in China, the first thing you write is China the country, then the state, then the the actual site specific address, and then the name at the bottom, and that in that is an indication of the importance of the things like what comes first is most important, and

you know at the bottom is the individual. And he compared that to the Shawnee language that these other guys were. You know that the chief told us about about how the Shawnees they focus on the verb, not the noun, the nouns at the end, the verbs closer to the front. You know, he talked about language and stuff, so I think I think there's a lot of things like that

going on, for sure. Yeah. The other thing that was really interesting was kind of how how we kind of or he's kind of glorified today because he lost, right, and it's how would that how different would that be if things had played out differently? I thought about something when when he was talking about that Dave, when he what's to say and how they European are the white settlers and everything put him up the old saying if you want to be the man, you gotta beat the man.

You know, if he had won, they probably wouldn't have put him up that far. There wouldn't have been but they had value in you know, if you're the number one seed and you beat the number twenty seed, who cares you're supposed to beat that guy. But if you're the number two guys and you beat the number one guy,

you know, you've got something to talk about. And I could see where, you know, how that played out in how I guess it was put out through the social media of the time, you know, you know, yeah, we're number one now, you know, we beat the Kumps. Who's the comes Oh man, he was unbeatable. He was this big leader, you know, and he's doing all these great

things and we want Yeah, but how that happened. He had characteristics that were to be admired because there are a lot of people that we've beat that we hate. I mean, there there are people that are considered the devil and we beat them. But he had these characteristics to begin with. Oh yeah. And I wouldn't say, I wouldn't take any other thing away from that. I was just saying how they they wanted it was more or less bragging rights. No, you're you're correct. I'm not. I'm not.

I'm not saying that you're not. What it was talked about about the what they call it postagia. Yeah, that they they add things to him. Um. So with the racial climate at the time, they added they basically whitewashed him to make him more acceptable to the American people at the time. You know, they added characteristics also that uh would make these people relate to him, Um, like he talked about, you know, they the lady, the white lady, that they said that he would set at their feet

while she read to him. And it's not true. According to that guy. I had no idea, But so they add things like that so that he would be able to be admired by the people. And one of the reasons for that is they're selling books too. I mean, you know the people that did this a little yeah, and yeah, and we probably do that all the time. We do it to a lot of people. There's a there's a play. There's a play in Chillicothe, Ohio to this day that has been going on for I think

fifty plus years. And it's a big outdoor, big outdoor play that big auditorium outdoors that holds I think it holds people and there's a cast of over a hundred people, as I understand that, and it's called Kumsa and I've been to it. It was it was very entertaining. Yeah, And that's the play that the chief said he didn't like at all. And it's because there's a lot of

the fables kind of mixed into that story. Because that the writer of that play was Alan Eckhert, who I said, I wrote the book Frontiersman and ek hurt Um just at the time. I don't know history at the time when he wrote it, whenever that was it, maybe the seventies or eighties. Somebody will write me a mean email

about getting that day wrong. But they that was just kind of the going thing that he had this white woman that he was in love with, and so that's all in the play, and that's the kind of stuff that the chief was like, this is hogwash, this is crazy, Which was interesting because that play is alive and well today it's worth going to. It was very well done, put together, big tourist attraction there in Chillicothe, Ohio. But it's entertainment and not history. Listen right, and there's I mean,

there's parts of it that that are true. And when you see it, I think you do you do understand a little bit more about to come somebody. It Also, the play also paints Ten Squintatwa his brother as kind of them battling against each other and kind of fighting for power. And I think now they've kind of dismissed that a little bit more and just said they they really did kind of work and tandem together more and more anyway. You know, there's so you could nitpick all

of it. But but it was interesting because talking about the phastalgia, I thought that was so such an interesting word. Um well, we do that to a lot of people in history. I mean you look at all the outlaws in the West that were you know, idolized, and these people were murderers, but they they add these stories to them, the you know, to make them more. When you said palatable too everyone to read. The first time I've used it word a long time, I didn't know you knew it. Mostalgia.

He said that that was longing for a past that didn't exist. And hey, I also took a little bit of criticism on this two come to podcast from some people that said that, okay, and here's just the simplest version now vigating some very treacherous political waters. Let's go, yes, let's do this. Um is that the Native Americans were were radically got the raw end of this deal. Like I don't think anybody disagrees to that, I mean massive,

and there their civilization suffered for it. America did all this stuff, which is absolutely true, broke treaties, just tried to annihilate and dismantle the civilization, no doubt. So now two years later, in kind of in kind of response to us being so when I say us, I'm saying that because I'm an American citizen. So if you're an

American citizen, you you know your country did this. Our response to that is to um romanticize Native American life as being this just like beautiful, utopian, you topian place and these people were just at one with nature and one with each other, and they didn't have problems, and they had this great little world over here that got so and we know that that is an entirely true

either that's more of a recent thing, though, was it not. Well, it's it's just the way we talked about like somebody said that, you know, we're we like hyper glamorized, you know, two kumsa and him guarding this way of life and him wanting just this traditional Indian way of life. And what they would say is like, man, this this place was a war zone they got here, which is true

with their neighbors just like we are now. Yeah, and so you know, you can go to one extreme to the other, and what you want to have is just kind of an understanding that yes, we did the United States did give these people a radically raw deal. They did, and it was unique too in the fact that I

don't know. I'm not a history buff so I don't know the reasons as much, But we slowly crept across the land, so to keep from fighting in all out war with all of these people, we just kind of slowly took it and made deals and you know, we'll buy this from you. And that was the thing. A lot of that land was bought, they paid money for it, but from what I understand reading, um, some of that land was sold by tribes that didn't actually own it. Yeah,

so a whole lot of uh. And it's so complicated, and it's so it's not stuff that's that I wanted to talk about just for sake of It just wasn't the story we were telling. But yeah, the the acquisition of land of the US from all the tribes is I mean hundreds and hundreds of treaties, people selling land that they actually didn't known, I mean, betrayal inside from tribe to tribe. But all this just wildly complex stuff

that happened. And uh, but this was a treaty that he was against that started this correct well, and and and that's a simplistic story because it was decades of all these treaties, but his his the thing that drew the line of the sand was the Treaty of Greenville, which was drew a line somewhere in Ohio what is now Ohio, and it was like, you know, Europeans, you know Americans can't come across this line. And they did and that's when it comes I was like, okay, no more,

no more a diplomat. We're gonna have to fight these guys. That's when he joined up with the British and started fighting. Um. So, another way that we could simplify all this too, it is that or it seems like it would be simple, is like, why weren't all these tribes in on this.

Why wouldn't they have come to to come says idea of this painting the Confederacy and fighting against him, because that didn't make sense to me at first, because the way we painted him in just this revolutionary Native American leader, it seems like every tribe in the country would have been like, yes, let's stand and fight against these guys.

But man, that it was so complex. Going back to that, a lot of tribes had great deals with the US government, where they were getting money, where they were getting supplies, where they were getting all this stuff. And Dave Edmonds talked about it. It comes succumbs to that tribe and it's like, hey, we gotta fight these guys. And the chief was like a bro, we got a pretty good thing here. And that's what happened. And most of the

tribes rejected him. Most the guys that were fighting with him were a small percentage of where most of those and are do you you might even know that that may not have come up. Most of the folks that stood with him where they from, you know, if they were from the same area, or they have similar religions and ways of life. Is that came about? Not necessarily the There were at least twelve tribes that were represented in the Pan Indian Confederacy, and many a lot of

the Shawnees even rejected to comes to his vision. Yeah, lots of the Shawnees. And there's today several divisions of Shawnees even and and today amongst those divisions, you can trace back to the people that were with takomes To and the people that were against him. And um, but that was one of the most remarkable things. And the reason we remember him is because he was the really the only guy that ever united the tribes. That was

a big deal. That was like major diplomacy, a major thing, which is also evidence why they believed that he was one of the greatest orators and leaders of the Native American people because he could ride up into a camp of chairkeys or or mingoes and give I mean, all he had was a speech. Like he didn't have a website, he didn't have a podcast, he didn't have a television crew. All he had. All he had was standing up in front of these people around a big fire saying, we

gotta fight these guys. I mean, wouldn't have been something. Wouldn't it have been something to have just one of those recorded. Yeah, that was my takeaway from it all was the fact that he was able to band together all those different tribes and all those different folks from different areas and get him to rally. So that alone just showed how powerful is personality was anything else. And you know, the two of them that just coming together

and rally and everybody. That's what I was going to point out is that you hear about the Indian nation and warring nations, right, and that the tribes apparently didn't get along a lot of the time. But now that it's all kind of spelled out, it makes sense. But for those guys at that time to rally everyone together, it's just an amazing deal. That was To me anyway, that was like wow, that takes a lot of Yeah.

You know. Another thing that's interesting is that this happened here and what is now the United States, where uh, basically another group of people came into land that was already occupied and pushed out the people that were occupied. That's the story of planet Earth. That has never not happened somewhere. But that's what I was saying about. It happened differently. Normally, you came, you come in, you attack

the country, you take it all. You don't slowly make deals with people, and then renewed on it until you reach the other ocean. You just it it. The whole thing may have been looked at differently had there just been a massive army come in and just run through the whole thing and then people do what they do, just like they do now when a country is taken over.

But the fact that so many that there was trust involved So these people are coming into your yard out here and they're going, I just want to buy your backyard, and you said, okay, I'll sell that. And the next thing, you know, you look up and there coming through your back door and they said, well, I want to live on your couch. Can I do that? And you make a deal with them, and then you're in there in your kitchen and it's just a complete different thing than

coming in and taking everything from you at once. It would be more traumatizing for that to happen for me then for all of a sudden, I lose it all and you have this one feeling about that would be different than watching them they're slowly take it from you. Yeah, that's a good point, and it would have been generation No. Two,

you know two. Kompsa was born where he was born because his parents went to a basically a Shawnee convention about what to do about these white Europeans coming into Kentucky. That was right when Boone and them were coming in. That's why they were near and Chilla coffee was because they were like sending out messages to the to the to the people that were scattered abroad. We gotta come together. And figure out what we're gonna do about these people

coming into our land killing our game. So, I mean he was born into this, that was a part of his life. It wasn't like they just showed up while he was here. So and that happened for generations and generations. Just yeah, it's it's it's really interesting. I over emphasized it in the podcasts. Maybe too much, maybe not enough, I don't know, But about how we tell a story from a place of bias, you can't. I can't tell

you about our coon hunt last night. It was from my eyeballs that I saw what happened, and in that version of that would be different than your version. Even the motivations. If I was telling you the motivations of why we turned right off the levee and went to the frog pond rather than turning left off the levee and going to the to the inside the levee, I mean, I might have been like, man, Michael, he hates frogs. Frogs, you're right, And then but then Britt would have been like, well,

actually he loves frogs. That's why we were going in there and kill the coons. They're eating the frogs. Well, it's just like you know, I've always said a hundred times two different stories. If you want two different stories, get two eyewitnesses to the same event, because people's perception and there their internal bias, whether it's subliminal or whatever, is going to determine how they see something. And even me telling the story if it comes. And I said

it on the podcast. When I first heard about him and learned about him, I was like, this is gonna be a great story because this guy was so awesome. He was such a he's good, he stood out, he was like I totally had a a way that I want and there's no hiding it. If I do a story on Warner Glenn, I'm gonna tell you the best

version of him. I mean I want It's not like when you get done listening to me talking about Warner Glenn, I want you to be like he was all right, I guess like I want you to be like that guy must be the coolest, coolest guy on planet Earth, because that's the way I view it. I got it. And even even the bias of the way that you view people and categorize them, and um, so I'll over emphasize that a lot because there is a thing that's going on today to where we demonize people that did

stuff a long time ago. And I had a section in there about how usually the antagonist in the story that I was telling about to come so it was the Americans, Like it was kind of like these evil people, And that's not entirely fair either, because but that just wasn't the story we we're telling, you know, there was, and I don't think it does any good to demonize those people today, two hundred years after it happened, and it's it's a war out trope and somebody could be like, man,

you shouldn't even say that, but I don't know, you know, it's like the people that are here today didn't do those things. But but there is power inside of being empathetic to this day because that's massively what I am like when I hear the talking comes to and sit with Ben Barnes, like, I'm empathetic towards their cause. I'm just like, but there's a difference between having empathy and feeling guilty. Yeah, yeah, I don't think anything about that.

Chief Barnes cured the whole problem with me having to look at that, you know, I was I had to come say at one level, when when this whole thing started and when he slapped me in the head with a wet squirrel, when he started talking about you know, he was just one guy, I thought, Wow, we were doing these other folks at this service by not recognizing them. And that, you know what I said, inspired me to

do some research about that. But that that was that brought what you're talking about now, that brought that all home to me. There, it just makes it makes so much sense. He couldn't have done that without, you know, by hisself, and there was he had a big supporting cast of folks, and it just elevated the It elevated the story of the history of it a whole lot more than me because of that. Well, someone that's a great communicator is recognized by history a lot of the

times more than the people that just had actions. So a guy that just has actions, he just seen something needed to be done and he went out and done it. You may never know who that guy is, but the guy that could speak about it, well you know who that guy is. So not saying that he didn't have actions, obviously he did. But through history that's how it's always been. The great orator was always the one that was known

through history. Yeah yeah, Um, that's probably part of the reason he was such a good leader too, was I mean, he was a great orator, but he also led through his actions. I mean he died on the battlefield, you know. He wasn't like sitting somewhere up on a hill watching it go down. He was out there. Well, how many battles can you be in before you die? So he predicted his death. Um, you had a podcast one time

about making your own luck. I think it was, and that your your mindset and your attitude a lot of times creates that luck. I'm sure this didn't happen, but this is what was in my mind. He thought he was going to die. He had a vision of it. So did that affect him on the battlefield that day, whether the vision was going to be true or not? If you go out there with that attitude, you know, you know, And I wondered if you ever said that before and it didn't come and nobody ever remembered it,

I mean for real? Yeah, yeah, or you know that postalgia. Did he really even say it, you know? Or was that just added to you know, we're not easy? How easy would it be though for the Yeah, that story, like I want it to be true so bad. I want it so bad to be true. Postalgia in it

to the to the ground. It's like, why for no reason other than you want to feel like his death was scripted by something bigger than him just taking a bullet, a random bullet, Because if a if an authority from another realm informed him of his death the day before it happened, it meant that it was like supposed to happen.

That's the way I think about it. And but how easy would it be for a story like that to be made Because his father died, his brother died, his chiefs died, cornstalk died, his he had basically had three He had a real dad, then he kind of had two basically adopted dad's died, and all of them died.

Chis Aqua. I said that over and over every single podcast I talked about chiess Aqua, his older brother saying that he'd rather have his the fouls of the air pick his bones than to be buried back at camp. It's like those guys, they didn't think about death the way we do. Death was like tomorrow, Yeah, well every day was if They wasn't fighting each other or somebody else. They were fighting the land they were living on to

stay alive. So every day was they were in battle every day just with well, we we live in such a soft world now, we can't even comprehend how they felt about that stuff. You know. Now whe someone goes to war, they come back and we have something to describe what's wrong with them, and we call it PTSD. There probably wouldn't anyone back then that didn't have PTSD. So you know the fact of you're gonna die is something that's just accepted. Um, Like you said, everyone before

him died. How many shootouts can you get into before you get shot? Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, that's wild now when these when these series are over, I am I said it on the podcast, I use the word melancholy.

It's a good word. I really do like They'll probably never another period in my life where I'm focused on just doing the research and just having to do this stuff as I will be on t COOMSA and uh yeah, I wish there was I wish there was a fourth and the fifth, but it's been my favorite really all right. Dave tell us why avatars like dances? Wolves Chief Ben Barnes just randomly threw that out there as if we would all understand that. Tell me, tell me what that

I mean. They're very similar in the fact that, uh, a white guy goes in, you know, Kevin Costner goes in what is a scout and dances with wolves and ends up basically, by the end of the movie living with the tribe. I can't remember the name of the tribe that he was with that and that it's been a long time since I've seen either of these movies.

And then Dances with Wolves a guy goes in you just told us dances Yeah, and then Avatar basically a white guy goes in in this to an alien world, to this alien world, falls in love, turns against the people that are trying to basically mind this planet or alien world, and ends up living with them. Yeah, okay,

I see, I see it now, I just forgot the storyline. Yeah, so Costner and Dances with Wolves was the American sent out on the planes and then he becomes basically an Indian Avatar, white guy sent to another planet too extract resource. Is that right essentially? Yeah, but then he becomes like an alien. Okay, the big overall, I think arching theme there is the misunderstanding of that alien nation by the

culture that's taking it over. I have no clue about their alter whatsoever, their spirituality, nothing, So they're coming from that perspective, and those those two films are the revelation of that character coming to that like, oh, I had no idea that these guys were this way and this is a better way of life or whatever. That's no value, And they had value after he realized what was taking play. That's good. That's good, that that is everything. Um okay,

another thing, Grantly Buffalo, did y'all hear that song? Yeah, um, the Last Days of Teakamsa. I'm gonna I'm gonna look it up and read the lyrics. If you did, y'all listen to the song the past, well, you should put it on your playlist on whatever you do. Last Days of Tekampsa. And because it's it's very short, I'm gonna

I'm gonna get the lyrics of it. So this is the entire song by Grantly Buffalo, and it says in the last days of two Cumpsa there in the end, there were rumors of invasion, even talk of spacemen, but he couldn't believe that all he knew would fade in the ground below the airplanes, two Cumpsa were laid. That's the whole song. There's not that, there's not another part of it. When I first read it, I just thought it was kind of a nonsensical just like what And

I went online and there were some forums. One guy said, oh, he's not talking about two cumps to the Native American. He's talking about two Cumpsa Oklahoma, a town that kind of fizzled out. That was what this guy said. I don't know anything about two comes to Oklahoma. There is there is such a place. But I think I think it's talking about Tea Coomsa in the last days and here here it is in last days of two Cumpsa.

There in the end, there were rumors of invasion and even talk of spacemen, which spacemen would be equivalent to people from another place. Okay, so that makes sense. They would have had the first white people they saw, they would have probably thought these cats are from a different world. Yeah, well they literally did, literally were they thought? Yeah, they absolutely did, And that would have been a long time before Tikomsa. They would have been pretty but it also

would have yeah, spacemen. So Grantly Buffalo is trying to put it into context for us today, it would be like spacemen showing up here and taking our land. That's pretty good. Grantly, he couldn't believe that all he knew would fade. Now that could tie right back to TEKUMPSA. In the ground below the airplanes two comes to relate. I think that shows that the spaceman won, and this sacred ground now he's got airplanes flying over it. It comes is in the ground like they took it over

they they what what could have? What? What was now has airplanes flying over it. So in the ground below the airplanes two comes to relate, any thoughts, what do you think? Lauren goes right back to the avatar. Yeah, I mean it's the it's very similar story. Dave, am I right am? I writer, am I right? Chief said, I don't know I did it. I have no idea. But the one thing that I do know is you're

going to get a lot of messages about that. Yeah. Uh. That song though, was perfect because the first time Steve Ronell is the one who told me to listen to it. He said, oh, you gotta listen to Grantly Buffalo last day six come. So I put it on. It starts off really cool and acoustic. Dun dun d d d. I'm like, right on and they start singing and I'm like, yeah, I can get behind this. And then it ends and in six seconds the song ends and just like it comes to his life. Maybe it were longer. That's a

great metaphor, right there. May have been exactly on purpose. Mm hmm. Well, hey guys, it's great to have everybody, Michael. You can buy sunspot lights on the mediator website metor dot com. You can just um, they're a little hard to find on there, so just typ them into the search bar up there. Yeah, if you type into the search bar sun spot lights, they'll pop up. And these lights have a lifetime warranty. Is that right? They do

have a lifetime warranty. Tell me what that means? Everything except for the charger, which has a two year warranty. The hat that it's mounted to really doesn't have a warranty. It's to wear item. Everything on that light is um. We fix it with no charge except for ten dollars for return shipping. Um. Except for damage, which most of the time, we wind up just fixing and sending back anyway because it's too big of a hassle to contact somebody over some little part that they broke. So and

that's an incredible warranty, even down to the battery. So you'll buy some people, might You know, these lights aren't cheap, that's for sure. They're not. You're not gonna pay a hundred dollars for one of these lights. But I'm telling you it would be like you see these guys driving around with these little little John Deer tractors that like almost would fit in the back of a pickup, with a little backhoe, a little front end loader. It's about as big as a tractor. This guy's going and he

thinks he's gonna landscape his yard. And then you see the dude drive by with a big Caterpillar back hoe on the you know, being pulled by a dump truck. The little hundred dollar light is like that little John Deere tractor that the guy went and bought three bags of mulch at Lows and is gonna put him in his front end loader and drive around the backyard. You know, the caterpillar tractor is the sun spotlight. If you've never used a coon light, you don't know what you're missing.

In the dark is a dark place, and once you start using a coon light, you can never go back. Just like once you get on that caterpillar back hoh and start digging a ditch in your backyard, you ain't going back to that little John dere nothing against John Deer. They just have a little home grade version. No. I mean, come on, now, that one's gonna get you more male than you do. Understand what I'm saying though, I'm serious, Michael. I tell people all the time, I'm like, you have

no idea you need one of these lights. I do, so you can buy on the Meta dot com. You can buy them from Michael. Lauren and I were both wearing little, tiny, yeah knock packing headlamps and you can hardly tell me how to light on our head. Impair to you, guys, I'm not going to tell you what we were saying behind your back. They made film in Raccoon hunting way better. Yeah, we wouldn't have been able to do it without ye and you guys did an

excellent job out there too. Well you haven't seen the footage. I don't care. I enjoyed out there, I hope. So sometimes I enjoyed watching you work. I've never seen it before, and it was it was. It makes you understand a lot better about you know, I watched Meat Eater, but you're just seeing Clay or Steve for someone on there. You don't see you guys running around back behind and you know I was following you guys around hiding behind

trees and such. You don't realize that either. If you can find Michael Roseman in the film that eventually comes out and give you a sun spotlight, I was pretty good at hide. I know. I know. If you find a picture of Michael Roseman in the final edit of this, we'll give you a sunspot that's that's not a sasquatch. That's Michael. Yeah, that's what I said. They're somebody who's gonna be sending in emails talking about they've seen a

sasquatch in the background. The part that that aggravated me though, is I wanted to scream when you guys were over there missing squirrels that I could see backed off from a hundred yards. Yeah, okay, you are like, I don't seem and y'all walk away and I'm like, he's right there. That would have been worth yell in that as I

could did that out. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah that happened because you had your thermal and we're looking at these juries sometimes way from way back, you can use a thermal to squirrel hunt on cloudy days if sunshine and it's worthless. But on a cloudy day, you can find squirrels with a thermal. Yeah, and it's not a thermal and of gun, no, no, it's binocular, a little binocular you put up and you can see heat rising off. That's pretty wild. Fun hunt man, Yeah, it's fun. This

whole project was great. Yeah all right, guys, well thanks for listening. And you're not gonna believe what the mixed burgers he is going to do about for show boom boom on, let's go get some chocolate gravy.