Ep. 33: Bear Grease [Render] - Juju's Christmas Party

like it's a mask, like it's dense. It's horse is it not? Yeah, it's It's a good beard. It I've always said that. That's the main reason I like Dan. I didn't have I had no Did you know Dan looks good in a beard. I'll be honest with you. Thank you, Josh. I'm not gonna tell all your people what I think about your beard. But Gary, the world saw that picture of me and Clay at the cost Tot River and Clay and Nucombe without a beard is a handsome man. Clay Nuncombe with a beard is a

handsome man. Josh Spillmaker without a beard is a It hurts the eyes to look at how you were a handsome man. You saw it? Did you see what I wrote on on Instagram? The reason I didn't have a beard was probably because you told me it held too much scent and I would never kill a deer. While here's the thing, Dad, listen. Gary Nucombe was a banker. He had to look professional when he went into the bank every day to be se sporting a little to go to so his the way he lived in sense

free in a in a positive way. I mean, I think this is a good thing. And so I've always had a beard, Clay. When I met you, your hair was like wild and you had a beard. How did that upstanding career imprint on you? Why don't you do? You want to give your it is he just wanted to go opposite of anything. And I mean, and that's and you know one other thing. Look where you ended up. I mean, you're one probably inch from Folsom not in Mexico, but prison all he's lacking as a neck tattoo. It's

just a little deeper than the color shows. Welcome to the bear, Gary, surrender man. Yeah, this is this has started off great. Hey, this is we have a we have a secret guest. We will reveal this guest later, but this guest has committed not to make a peep. The energy, the energy of the bear Grease render Christmas party which you are all a part of. Congratulations, this is a Christmas party. And why don't you describe the core that you see around? Well, it's lovely, it's seasonal.

There's a lot of antlers and old books. It actually looks like it always does, except for the Christmas cookies. That's what I was about to say. There is, and I've already had at least one, but I've been told I can't eat anymore because it makes a lot of noise through the mic. It's a little testy about for a Christmas party. There's I will say, there's tension in

the room at Christmas. I'm not feeling of expectations. I think under a Christmas party with a lot of times about why you can and can't be, you will have fun on my terms. Uh, that is exactly right, That's exactly right. Hey, We're we are going no foreshadowing here, folks. We're we're going to have an actual Christmas party. We have gifts, We're gonna have it. We're gonna have a gift exchange. There's gonna be singing, there's going to be refreshments.

This is gonna be incredible. There's the saddest part of this is that Brent Reeves couldn't be here, So Bret, we have an empty chair for We'll have a special holiday greeting for us. Although will be on this episode of Wonderful, So I will introduce my guests though. To my left, Dr Dan Route, Hey, great to see you, Dan, Great to be here. Yes, to your left, my lovely wife, Missy Nukelem always good to be here. Yes, great to see you. Good to see you. Marry Christmas, Merry Christmas.

To to your left, Josh the Lambridge spilmmaker, Which I'm thrilled that the land Bridge came up once again and this episode it did. I feel like every time the word land Bridge is mentioned, there should be like a little jingle or something like, hey, I got your new tattoo though that you need on your neck. Now that Gary thinks we should be in prison, they walked their quote unquote, I like that it's tagline. They walked there. I mean he said it like a real matter of fact.

He said they walked there, like it was like he he started it and stopped it in such a way with the enunciation of his voice, like there was no arguing. I noticed you wanted there was a small part of you that wanted to kind of bring up a different view, and then you quickly were like, Okay, let's move on. Yeah, I love it. I mean, I'm pro lanb. Bridge, but I'm also pro you know Taylor Keenes saying the Cherokees came from the South via water route. This is a lot.

This is deep waters pun intended. But your tattoo should say they walked here. I like it, Like and the and the Vikings made it to Heathenar, Oklahoma. We know that for sure. The ruinstone look it up. Okay. To Josh's left is our secret special, very dear special guest. But her left is Gary new come back from wherever he's been, back from the grave. Good to be here. Where have you been? Gary? Well, I can't tell you. It's secret, secret secret. I'll tell you what. I will

give you a little hint though. I've been doing some research thinking about writing a book on the Black Panther. Y. Hey, I think I can go ahead and foreshadow this meat eater. We are coming out with a hat that is going to be the design of the Bargaras hat. It's gonna have those same colors. It's gonna be a patch hat with the same colors, and it's got the silhouette of a black panther and it says believe Yes. That will

be for sale on the meat Eator dot com. Very, I'm just gonna say soon and soon when we're talking about geologic time might be like, you know, like February soon might be like when this thing comes out with me. Well, everything except for when we're talking to geologic time. Well, okay, when I say soon, there are many qualifications to that term soon to Some people might be like tomorrow, got it soon, But I don't know exactly when soon is. So there's a believer hat. So well, it's good to

see you, so to Gary Newcoms. Right is our special guest, my dear mother in her dream sweater. Welcome. Well, it's good to be here. It's an honor to be here with the witty bold people. Idiots. You realize that your name comes up a lot. Oh listen, yeah, well just in my life though, yeah, yeah, juju, Like I don't even I quit qualifying who Juju is. When I talk to people, just say Juju said, and they're like, oh, yeah,

that's Clay's mom. So great to have you. And the reason Juju is here is because Juju is the is the queen of holiday, festive, energy and life. Do you agree, Dad? Absolutely? Like when you go to Juju's house day after Thanksgiving, man the Santa Claus has come out of wherever they live the rest of the year, and they're all over

the house, Angels, Nativity scenes, immaculate Christmas trees. We we opened some gifts the other day at Juju's house with it for our kids, and the wrapping paper on those there was more intent put in that they're wrapping, inspirational like rapping that. I was like, you put more thought into this than I did the first year. And that is a true statement because I didn't know what our house is gonna look like until just to be clear,

I did, true story. So Juju, Wow, that's that's quite a t And she did bring this festive tray of cookies, delicious trees and stars. We could only eat one, but they're really good because how many did you have? Did you have the Christmas tree at the star the star that means something juju? What is your what? What do you think about? What do you think about the bargarase like our format? Are you cool with the way we're doing this? Oh? I enjoy it. I love listening to

the I love listening to the Beargrease. Then I will love podcast, and then I love listening to what y'all say about it, the narrative of it. It's interesting and Uh, y'all are so funny. I have to laugh at who's your favorite Burger's character. I'm gonna I'm gonna red on that. I'm not gonna say. How do you feel like Clay has been? Tell them not to ask me hard questions? And they're asking me hard just one. How do you feel like Clay has been with all the commenters feel now?

I've had a little talk with him about that. I tell him not to be so hard on a few of them, to listen to them because they are really saying what they think. Yeah, they are, they do say what they do say. What do you feel like that? They're always right? But you know you have to be a little gracious with them. I think you could be gracious with a lot of people in your life. Um, so do you do you feel like the formats working though?

Do you think there's any kind of marketing Uh, marketing problems with like having this documentary style podcasting and the render people getting confused? Did you have any difficulty with so? Several of my friends listen and they enjoy it. They enjoy the talk among you guys, the kidding and the laughing and uh. But they also enjoy when you all are serious and you talk about the concept or the subject you're talking about. Who do you think who do

you think the smartest person on the end? Oh, I'm going to say, Mr new I have to live with it. Everybody here is you know, guess what. She's a kindergarten teacher. Of course she's going to say that. Welcome to my life. You're all great. You do you notice that she's kind of leading us like we were a kindergarten class. All of a sudden, I feel really special, and I know everyone else does too. I feel like times right around the corner, and I remember all the letters of the alphabet.

Everybody gets a ribbon. It's all coming back to Okay, all right, here's what we're gonna do. We're now going to have our Okay, it is now time for us to have our Christmas gift exchange. Okay in white elephant fashion. Yeah, so, Josh, why don't you describe? We have a few gifts here for those of you that brought gifts. Whoever gets to go first gets to pick a gift. They're gonna open it and they're going to be excited about what it is. The next person can either steal that gift or they

can pick a new one, and so down the line. However, whoever the last person is, they can steal or they can open, but then it goes back to the first person. They can keep what they've got, or they can steal one of the gifts that are already question Okay, do you need to draw numbers? Who goes first? Juju? How about you? Do you pick a number? Who goes first will close their eyes? Just just just go for how

many gifts have? Number one? She's gonna go first, Okay, Gary's number two, Clay's number three, Daniels four, and I'm gonna let Josh b last I actually in white elephant let me say five. So should we announce what we've got? And here we've got a gift hidden Underneath, we have a gift that's long and skinny, wrapped in a bare hide. We have a very large gift about a sixteen by twenty thirty by forty. I'm not really good, I know

that's a big range. We have a box about the size of a cordial cherries chocolate covered cherries box festival analogy, and then we have about shoe box. I'm just thinking about things that I've bought in Okay, So your first, Missy, what will you choose? Chocolate covered cherries? Okay? Wow? This is Josh says, this is a good one. This is from the land Bridge, this is from this is from so I've got a very great rapping job. I have to tribute that to sp She she loves wrapping gifts

and she's very crafty. Keep asking her to come and help me do things. Okay. And inside the box is a smaller present wrapped in bubble rap. Okay, Oh whoa belt buckle with a like Josh's. Is that a black I made that last night? Is that look at the back of it and that commemorative commemorative and it says bear grease two. So it's a It's a silver belt buckle with beadwork of a bear on it. Very classy. That is great. Well, that's not yours can have. It

can only be stolen once. Okay, Gary, you're up next. What are you going to choose? Let me look at that. Don't look too close, scary. You are until four o'clock in the morning, so much more talented than you look. You know what one, I'm gonna take this guy right here. Okay, Gary's taken. I feel like I need a vaccination to even touch it. Yeah, Garry has has chosen so that you can post it on Instagram. Hold that up, dad.

I can't tell if it's an old rifle or if it's like the front quarter of a white tailed deer. Did do I get to keep the bear hide? Um? If you want it? Yes, No, I'm not sure I want it, but I'm and I'm excited about seeing that. Like everybody's sitting here with their mouths up and just I'm gonna give it a muzzleloader. Hopefully it's not my muzzleloader. Would when you hit on it, holy, that is my muzzleloader. But my mum, are you sure? How do you know

that's yours? Most definitely look familiar? Okay, Um, that is Josh's muzzloader chosen to give it away in this gift exchange. Um, I guess I have the opportunity to steal less about Okay, okay, this is this is a decoy. This is a decoy gift. The funny part of this is that that is Josh's musloder that he lent me that I haven't give it back. Okay, bullet in it. No, I I took the breach out of it, so just for safety, so we didn't shoot anybody. Hold on, we got we gotta work through this because

this is this is you. We've actually got to work through this because I don't have the right to give away Josh's musloder. That's what was funny. Okay, that was funny. This is this is this is this is a first Light dirt bag. Duff read read the tag this so first Light has a serious that this came from Salvage. Salvage it was, it's been it was built ten or twelve years ago, it's been used, it's been to a last twice. It's got COVID inside. Boy. Now, really, this

is a this is a nice piece First Light. I mean, this is this is I'm a bag there's certain things I like, and I got one of them. Okay, A little bit like this is the Michael Scott white elephant, where it kind of is like the was not even a white elephant. I mean, I will boys, I look like an old guy, but I'll whip your fan if I take this thing. Believer, believer, I got. There's two of us now, okay, Josh, who's next? There is one underneath the Yeah, there's I'm just taking this. I'm taking

this one. So I've got at this is intricate. If if archaeologists dug this out of the ground one day, they would go, why did they spend that much time wrapping it? Why would they do that? What couldn't they have used their resources in other ways? They would have said that, okay, a target box target gets from target a nice look at this big buck hitch cover that's truck and some Christmas socks nice and uh a little um a little like sign that says genius at work.

We need two of those, very good. Thank you. This So this is terrible on two fronts. Leave my bag, Alonge, because number one, my gift is way below the level of all these gifts. Wait, is your my gift is under unwrapped under the bare hide. Okay. Number two, why this is terrible is you're gonna steal. I'm gonna steal Misty Dann't wear that, sucker. I will wear it right now. Well, wow, this is getting changing. So I had the option of the gift I brought or Dann change their belt buckle

that quick. That's I know. I man. It was like he keeps a sparre in his pocket and he was just waiting to do that. It looks good though. I love this. Thanks, you're welcome. I mean, I'm gonna okay, it's took it from me. Please do not choose myne It's awesome. This is your other. Why is you're taking your own? Okay, under the bear skin cancers mystery flavors. Let me just tell you, well, I cain't downplay this, but let me just introduce this gift a little bit.

These are experimental mountain dew flavors that we acquired, and it is my joy to turn them over to you. You can either drink them or use them to kill plants. Experimental mountain dew flavors. Does that mean you'll have tasted these and have so these are used these. I think if you save this like a Star Wars figuring, both of these twelve packs have been unspoilt. I've got twenty

four Mystery Flavor Mountain d that's right. Okay, So who doesn't have a gift, Josh Spellmaker, so I can steal you can steal or Newcomb or Misty Newcomb's gift here. It's it's ladies and gentlemen, I will tell you it's it's the size of a large picture frame, has kind of a picture frame. He feel about it, very nicely wrapped. It's going to be a black panther. I think, I think I'm gonna keep this one because I need I'm pretty certain it's artwork and I need smartwork from my shop. Yes,

you do this. The look Clay Newcomb has given me right now is that like, do you know what this is? Do you know what it is? You're the worst? I can't, I can't say it. I like Gary Newcomb keep his bag. Although I'm gonna say I'm gonna take whatever's in this and my muzzleloader. Yeah, that's partly the reason I gave it away, because I was looking for a reason to give it back to you. This is what I always dreamed of, a picture of a giant picture of giant

portrait of a big Cheshire cat grin. And that is a museum quality frame from someone you know, very dear, Yes, and I'm serious, that is a probably a three frame job on that. It's an excellent frame. In What I like about it, Josh, is that it was given to us. It's a wonderful picture by a very skilled photographer in big at least at least it's bigger than Josh's Torso like when I just took a picture of a giant picture of my face, and so it was a high quality was given to us. All sign it for you

right now. It just always felt a little big in our house, almost idolatrous, you know, like the one thing that Okay, for the record, we did not ask for this, nor did the artist of this portrait to sees it hanging in my shot nervous. A little bit about that, A little bit about that. So the second thing, hey, the one thing that we have learned is that wherever you put it in a room, those eyes, buddy, they follow you, like that like that statue of Jesus that follows.

We would take place watching like whenever the kids would get in trouble when they were a little and Clay would be on the road, I would just point to the wall. Can you turn it away from me? What you're wearing the Arkansas baron. But know that the reason that little grin is they're so big is I had just killed a beautiful white tailed buck that had a four inch drop time on Christmas Eve. Really yeah, which

it is a Christmas photo? That photo of Christmas Eve. Well, I'll tell you what that's good for, Like those little little darts as a little so two thoughts. A lot of dictators make everybody put their picture on the wall and there wherever. That or the fact that that misty you really need to keep that. That's the kind of thing if you don't want to put it out like your egotistical you put it in the attic and think what the little grand babies. I mean, they'd go, well,

see that's been our attic for about a decade. It needs to be in the act three or four decades old. I killed water Witch in two thousand eleven. Well, that's a highlight of my life. Fantastic. I just want to give everybody a clause. Great job on the gifts, really put your heart into it. And Josh, uh, sorry about keeping your mind so long. I've also got all your gear with it. Okay, great, I have to wait another year to get that excellent wrap it up and drop

it off at your house. Okay. So now we'll get into So this was like a holiday specialty section okay at the Burgray Shrender. Now we're getting into the serious part of the render. What did you guys think of the last render crew? You know, it was the guys from on X was Jared Larson, Zack Sandal and then Rusty Johnson, Rustin Johnson, Hunter, Rude Justin Michow. I mean, they did pretty good. I have to say that there was a lot of them, and it always kind of hurts.

I have to say that also that you know, we're such distinctive personalities. It kind of they kind of just all ran together. There's a couple of distinctive personalities in there, but they kind of all ran together. I think that really. So Josh said, none of them has what I'm saying, what the render crew that you have here. If it

ain't broke, don't fix it. Okay, that's one view point I will say after the previous time that another crew was brought in, I will admit, but they stepped it up and I went into this one with pretty low expectations. I thought they were fantastic. I actually really had a good job. I thought, we're going to listen to this. I did listen to Okay. I thought they did good. Did you think about Rusty Johnson getting anxiety sickness before

he hunts? I thought that was interesting that he would he would gag And do you ever get excited about anything that much? Well, I can't say that. I had, Like before you the day before Thanksgiving when Jujuice cooking, she is like pomped. I mean just like I cannot wait. Is there is there a time that you are just like absolutely stoked to be doing what you're doing. Oh? Yes, shopping, seeing my grand babies. I get excited about that. Gets

pretty pumped up about teaching kids to read too. Well, yeah, I do love that about I enjoyed those guys comments though. I remember them talking about one guy, one cameraman and the tree stam would talk your ear off and the other cameraman wanted to talk but his hunter. I guess it was that. Yeah, he wouldn't talk, and he'd sit there for hours not saying anything. It was a hunter. Hunter is like he has like long red hair and he's just a funny guy. You're just around him and

you're like, he's really funny. And so Rusty is real serious? Is it Rusty Son that's a lawyer. Yeah, And so Rusty and Hunter went together and it was just real funny because Rusty is this dead serious white to Hunter, and Hunters this like he's a good Hunter. I'm not taking anything away from him. But he had I don't know that he had been around somebody like Rusty, and so it was real funny. But they came together in the end. Jujuka, that's what the Renders all about, unity,

unpolarizing the nation. I feel like I need I need to unpolarized. I mean, you've polarized a bunch of our friends now with your statements about their performance on a podcast. I will say that will newcom and I don't want you all to be mad at her about this. But after the first like non what do we call us regular render? Non regular crew? We need an acronym. Yeah in our um she called us and said, hey, that was really great. The ones that you thought weren't great.

She said, that was really great. Sometimes I feel very overwhelmed by the regular crew, and she said it actually gives me. She described it as I'll just say, anxiety inducing to listen to us. Well, I mean, I could see if she's having trouble sleeping, enjoying listening to the first non regular said that it was great. Then we do this one and she's like, she came home for the holidays and she said, Dad, that last Render crew you had, She said, it's always my favorite whenever it's

a different crew said that. She said that. I mean, you don't what she said to me. I think, you know, I just think that the insecurities of this render crewe. It is just glowy. Uh. It's like job security. You know, you can't brag on the guy next to you. You got a bad mouthing. I thought you thought zero second irregular crew was probably the best. The first irregular crew was probably second best. In this bunch right here, myself included,

we're probably third. To be honest, I enjoyed. I enjoyed marking that bunch, maybe because I just had met him. That's what I was going to say if you had known those guys because they were the nicest guys. Mark and Andreas and Tyler and Joe. I mean way, you know us too. Guys are nice too. But truly I like both groups. I think a little variety is pretty cool. Still, maybe we could arrange a fistfights between the two crews

between us and Willow. Just sitting in as a guest on the on the Render when you're not used to doing it, I can say that right now. It's it's hard to think of something really cool to say every time. And you guys never had any trouble things. You guys have mastered it. You too, You TOOI company. So it's fun listening. Well, there's just a little bit of a little bit of housekeeping to do here. Um, now that

it is Christmas time. It's now that it is Christmas, I would like to make a formal apology to all the Render listeners who put up their Christmas lights before Thanksgiving. You want to apologize to them, I do, because now that it's Christmas and we're all pumped for Christmas, I'm like, maybe they were instrumental in helping you get pumped. Maybe they were Maybe maybe they were right The whole time.

Clay flip flops again, and my friend Ryan Pettigrew called me out on it and he said, Clay, I put up Christmas lights on November the first, and he said, because my wife wants me to do it, and we love Christmas. And he's real big dude, and like I wouldn't want to fight him. We had some petty criminals come through our neighborhood night before last and steal Christmas decorations out of people's front yard. Really, I wish they

would still Halloween a creations. They leave those, Okay, So to get after the heart of the podcast here, guys, were three three podcasts into a four part series. The fourth part is gonna be one of my favorites. I'm working on it as we speak. What did y'all think of this third one? So the to clarify sometimes it probably jumbles into one big section. The first podcast, the first in our series, was on George mcjunkin. Okay, And and for those maybe who haven't heard it might want

to go back. George mcjunkin was the freed slave who in nineteen o eight found the Falsome site reported it the people. It wasn't until after he was dead that they recognized what it was that he had found. And so the whole first podcast we dove into George mcjunkan's life and him being a cowboy, and it was all about him and very little about the Fulsome site. But

that's part of the Falsome story. Part number two was diving into Falsome and I introduced well the authority on the folsome site in the nation, Dr David Meltzer from s m U. Incredible guy. And the reason he is the authority on Falsome is he literally wrote a textbook on Falsome. It's right up there. So that book, I mean, it is it isn't It is like an academic textbook. It's not a book that you would give away and be like, hey, you'll enjoy reading this. I mean it's like, yeah,

you would. You would given to him and would be like, you're gonna really struggle with this. Why did you look at me when you said that? I loved it? But I'm just saying it wasn't like written like some entertaining, purposefully entertaining nonfiction book. And so we talked about the archaeology and I needed to sort out just a general

understanding of archaeology. So we talked about the processes of verification of the site, and we learned about the drama of the Fulsome site, and that there were other sites that were probably as legit as Fulsome that had human points with old Ice age mammals, but they didn't count because of the way they were excavated and understood and in and found different way. So that was really interesting.

The third well, and then we just established what happened to the Fulsome site, which was thirty two bites and Antick was killed by human hunters and the only reason we know that we would have thought they got struck by lightning. And I'm gonna come back to that, Josh, had it not been for the twenty ish stone points that were found amongst the bones, and that there were fractures in bones that were clearly impact fractures from stone points.

So while these animals were alive, humans were chunking spears allowed darts. We don't know. You will learn whether it was spears or allowed of darts in part four. And there is question. Okay, I have figured they were and gen Le, when you talk to people, they almost everyone just for sure says, yeah, they were add but when we talked to the expert on Adeladdles, there is question because you cannot necessarily determine an ad ladle point based upon its size as compared to some of the bigger

arrow points. And my future guests who you don't know who it is yet he he talks about I mean, he just dives into it big time, probably Addles, but it's not definitive. So we talked about that, and then in part three is when we talked about gourmet butchering, and then we talked about the cultural impact of dating human arrival in North America back you know, seven eight thousand years further than we thought. But what y'all think,

what y'all think about the gourmet butchering stuff? You know that that was very interesting to hear because one of my biggest questions about the whole thing is, you know, if we're talking about a small group of people, you know, maybe fifty people, why did they want to kill thirty two bison? I mean that's just a huge pile of work, you know, thinking about you know, thirty to forty thousand pounds of meat. Why did they need to kill all that? What?

What drove them to kill that many. Why didn't they kill five? And you know, say, hey, we gotta work cut up, cut out for us? They were Americans, Why killed five if you can kill thirty? But but you know the fact of them thinking, well, I'm just gonna take you know, there was no sense of of ethic hunting ethic back then, So the idea of the gourmet butchering. You know, they might have just seen, hey we'll get thirty two tongues out of this. You know, there was

no thought process inside of that. So I I felt like that kind of helped me understand the thought process behind it of of these ancient people's doing. You know, the question too would be why wouldn't they kill I mean, you're you're your people that are living. It's almost hand the mouth. I mean, there is no you're not storing up at five oh one K for ten years down the roads. You are literally killing stuff that can not A five o one ks hopefully does a lot of

the finances. Yeah, I feel is a nonprofit retirement account. Okay, okay, so the four oh one K, they don't have four oh one case, they have one case. They don't have any case. And the only security for the future that they have is what they've killed today and whatever the preservation techniques would have been, which could have been the ice and snow and them storing the meat in the snow through the winter, or they made pemmican. There was a whole section about or melts. Are that talking to

me about pemmican? Which I just we just couldn't then. Well, I mean they would have used the meat to make pemmican. Oh yeah, they did they make it back then, they believed they did. Where they would have have been a mixture of meat and berries and other stuff fried out and flattened, and they could have it could have lasted, you know, months. Could they not also smoked the meat?

I'm presuming you know, I think they're hunter together like banned societies today that will kill a giraffe and you know, you've got fifteen pounds of meat and there's twenty five of them, and they'll smoke the meat to preserve it, to preserve it. You know, it's not rock solid preservation, but it's better than just letting it go bad and wasting it. Yeah, for sure. So the question would just be why wouldn't they kill as many as they possibly could?

Because they would not have. I mean, it wouldn't have been even in the thought process for them to think, you know what, we're gonna let a couple of these guys go. We presume there was not that thought process. Well, if they're like, what do Steve Ronnella mentioned that they took the hides, and you know, could it be possible they didn't take all the meat, but they took the what meat they needed. Well, used the hides to build shelters and tps or whatever you in their huts were calmed.

Was that brought out? Was that well, that's a good That is a great answer to a potential potential answer to the question of why they killed that many. If they weren't going to use all the meat, presumably they used all the hides because there were no tailbones, zero tailbones, and the tailbones were left in the hides when they carried him off. I think, jujus beat all your experts. What do you think? I'm not sure, but I thought

about leaving all those folsome points. How hard it was to make those folsome points, how long it took to chisel out. But I guess it was deep in the animal and they couldn't pull it back out. But I thought, wow, if they could have taken those twenty points back with them, class classic mother like I would have come back from that hunt and you do would have been like Clay, baby, where's your Folsom points? And it had been like I broke up? But she would have been like Clay didn't.

Daddy worked hard for those, whereas was Dr Meltzer able to determine the points that we're at the Fulsome Museum where those legit, No, we don't. None of those that we saw at the Fulsom Museum were from the Fulsom site. None of them. All the points from the Falessome site are in big museums, and there's several that are unaccounted for don't and they might be this one I was looking for that show. You know what, if I had thought about it, why ethan gift, I would have got

a fulsome replica. They are. They're one of the coolest stone points I've ever seen. I want one now, Yeah, I know, they're They're awesome, the way they're so thin and delicate and so they're beautiful. Yeah, they're awesome. You know. It's one of the those things that if you didn't know it was beautiful if no one, if you didn't know the backstory, you'd look at the point and you

just go, oh, cool stone point. But when you know the history, and after episode number four, every household in America is gonna want a fulsome record point foreshadow in this is not foreshadow and this is like a straight up shadow. We make a fulesome point on episode like clicking clack make it. I wonder if like the Fulesome people's ran into the Clovis people's and they were like

judging their points, like we talk about that too. I'm being dead serious because like those clos points, they're okay, But have you seen these fulsome points technology differences? Hey, I want to bring up a couple I had a couple of comments. I had a buddy of mine, Scott Brown, a good friend of mine. He wrote me and he sent me a link to an article of something that happened pretty recently where nineteen cows were killed by lightning.

There's a big, big pile of cows and all of their tailbones were evaporated, right, and the lightning shaped these stones into the stone points. Well, he wasn't trying to say that that's what happened but he was. He was just bringing up a good point, he said, He said, have you ever thought about a lightning strike? Four? Because it is unusual how the bones were piled up, and

there's lots of reasons why that didn't happen. Number one, the stone points, but they could have been struck by lightning and then fulsome hunters came by and found him and butchered him. But that would not explain Dr Meltzer if he's listening to this right now, which I'm hoping he's not. Uh, he would like want to like fight me for saying that, because they did find impact fractures in a few bones, not many. I mean, it's not like every single bison they were able to see where

it was. That would be, that would be you would expect not to find a bunt. That's right, That's right. I'm just trying to get my mind around and maybe this you talked about this more in the next episode. A spear with a stone head. I mean, I take my bow with a seventy pound draw weight and I shoot, and if I have a bad shot on a white tail, it hits the shoulder, and I mean it might crack

a bone in there. For sure, but just my hand with a wooden shaft on a spear and a stone, I don't know if I could throw it hard enough to crack a rib. Yeah, that could have got literally to jab well. So there's a lot of things going. And what the fundamental thing is physics momentum the calculation of momentum, which is a calculation of the velocity and

the mass of this thing. And when you start doubling, tripling, quadrupling the mask compared to the modern eras which we're shooting, which are in the four fifty s range, you start like multiply that times ten in the momentum, which moment them is. People that are familiar with ed Ashby's ideas are not his ideas, just kind of he made this

famous and archery community. When you when you're talking about how much an arrow a projectile point will penetrate into something, the correct calculation to use as momentum because momentum measures of vector, which if a vector has a direction. You hear a lot of people talk about kinetic energy. That that's what people in the nineties used to talk about. We used to we used to do the kinetic energy.

We used to mass times of velocity square. Well, the kinetic energy, but basically kinetic energy is not the right one. Momentum is And to answer your question, really we're go into great detail. Devin Pettigrew is the probably the nation's expert on addle addles and he has actually done experiments on bison carcasses with addleaddles, and I mean they just like punch right through them. You know, they probably would have found more impact fractures too. Weren't they taken weren't

they taking rib racks out of there? You know, because if you're gonna shoot something or shooting that's a good point. It probably hauled off. I'm surprised Juju didn't think of that. Yeah, yeah, because if you if if the main target on a bison is going to be as ribs, and then you were taking rib racks, you're taking away the evidence of probably where it went through. They were covering their tracks. They knew we were gonna be sniffing them out ten

thou years later. Um, I'd like to read another in because my mother's here and uh she is, and she has asked me to be nice to people that write in. I would like to talk about this guy. Um No, it was actually really good. I love the last episodes on Fulsome and George mcjunkin. Here's this question, how did they know? It all happened in one day? Could this not have been a great place to herd and reliably

make successful and repeatable kills? Given that it was said they could go there their whole lives without coming into contact with someone outside of relations, and that they were probably in groups of around fifteen, doesn't it make sense that killing thirty two is a little excessive? He says with them, I would think any hudder would want to care for their tools, and killing so many at one time would seem This goes right back to what Juju said.

As a hunter, I would think I would want to take care of my tools, and killing so many at one time would seem to be not only waste of resource, but potentially costing their time and hard work and making these tools. So basically, he says, could that many bison? Could it have been spread over multiple years in a unique kill site. Yes, this is a honey hooleive killing tree That makes a ton of sense. What do you think that I think that the guy and I'll let

him take my place on the render? Wow? Yeah, Nick Brown that it must be from Canada. He said cheers didn't didn't they say that they could like good bones when they were laid down in sentiment the sections that were white or how long they stayed white. It would be interesting to hear Dr Meltzer tell us why that

that is wrong, because he probably would. But presumably if I mean, if you, I don't think they could whittle it down to if it was even just a couple of years, like maybe it was a five year period. I don't know that they would be able to go to that much detail it all. That's a great I mean, because if you've got to if they're they find this little box canyon and the you know, the first time it happens, they get a few of these bison, there are no dummies. They're just gonna keep going for days

and leave this thing behind. And it worked perfect. I mean, you get a good spot when you're hunting, you never forget that spot never, and you're gonna go back. Yeah, well it I'm not I'm not saying i'd give this. I give Nick credit for coming up with a good idea.

I really believe if Meltzer were here, he would be able to say, Well, because, man, I'm telling you, the amount of research that they did on this site and the the technology that they that they used to understand the stratification over those animals and the what was going on with erosion is just mind blowing. And that's part of the book that I couldn't even follow. It was just so technical. What do you think did they have, uh, any estimation of the number of people involved? Well, we

have no idea. Well, I talked about couldn't be. I mean, thirty two could be a very small number if I've got, you know, a million people in my group, even though I know there wouldn't be that, right, they said, I mean that there was you know, you got a little community of three people or something. I mean, well, okay, So they they believe that these people were in much smaller groups than that, just by the size of their

camps in different places. They think they stayed in groups of about twenty five and at different times of the year would come together. So but could it have been a hundred people? Sure, yeah, it could have been. And they don't know what time of year it was, either the fall, okay, so it you know, I'm just thinking if it was closer to winter than they could have

preserved him in the cold weather a lot better. Uh, But they think it was the fall, and they well, they know it was the fall based upon the teeth of the baby calves. And but so let's just say it would have been September. Meltzer said, you know, September October, and it was colder back then. I mean, it was in the end of the ice age. I'm just thinking, I'm thinking in terms of white tail, you know. But they bison don't just walk around in twos and threes.

There it's an entire herd and there's calves, and they basically found a herd slaughter. Okay, here's another, there's another. Probably it's probably not gonna be multiple years because they're looking at their looking at the behavior of the animals as well well, because it's a cow calf herd, a cow cal So if it had been a mix of bulls and cows and calves, that's a good that's good point. I still give Nick credit for having a good idea, Like, Nick,

did they have plans to excavate further? You said that was a sixty bus sixty square. It appeared to me to be very small the area they had actually excavated. But when I brought that up to Dr. Meltzer, he didn't think that. He just kind of acted like that. It was kind of silly for me to think that, because probably it's a big site that they excavated. I mean, archaeologists, you know, they might look at a place like half as big as this room, and they might spend two

years inside of it. So the fact that it was you know, maybe seven sixty by sixty, which would be like a ten yard bowshot by a ten yard bowshot. He he thought that they found everything. He really did. Well. They said they didn't find any evidence of their their their living quarters or camping or anything that they got to be something nearby. I've got it, yeah, I mean four five Juju goes back to full sum. I'm seeing like Indiana Jones music, Give her a whip, give her

a we go camping in the woods. I mean, these guys are hunter gathers there on the move. There, twenty some out of them, and they're carrying everything on their backs. You know, two years after camping in a spot on a piece of land, you'd never know. I camp there and I've got a tent in the stove and all kind of drive my truck in there. They're packing even lighter than that. Yeah, you know, they're not, it's not there.

The campsites that they find, they're typically looking at fire, you know, charcoal residue, and then just bones and whatnot of what they ate because they were eating meat, and then stone points. I mean, like, that's about it. And then if it's in some kind of if it's in some situation where it can be preserved, whether it's a really arid place that doesn't have a lot of moisture that gets covered up quickly, or if it's in a

cave or you know. But yeah, I mean, just the idea that we could go back and find where they camped is to me kind of wild. I think that you could. I was I can't remember who said it, but I was pretty taken back by um the gentleman's comment that even though you might not have art like cave paintings from this period, that there art most likely would have been in songs and stories and so like

immaterial mark immaterial art. So when culture shows up, which is immediately when you have us as humans arrived, everything you talked about with like being uniquely human. It really added a whole another layer on top of the Fulsome site. For me is clearly these people, however it went down, they're working together, and they're working in mass and you don't have people working together without culture and relationships and stories, and that kind of blew my mind. It's like, wow,

that goes all, that goes all the way. But you know, there were there were other parts of the world where we do have evidence during that time of art and music and stuff. Just for whatever reason, the Fulsome hunters and the way they lived we don't have evidence of it, which I was introduced to a new term by my

future guest Devin Pettigrew called preservation bias. Preservation bias, though, is this idea that we are only looking at and studying stuff that there is physical material evidence left by, and so we we find stuff like stone points and think, oh man, this whole culture was based around stone points. But that's just the thing that lasted. So what what's all the other stuff that didn't last? You know, I

loved it so much. When Steve talked about he brought up the idea of what kind of a day was this? And it's think about this ten thousand years later, we are devoting this all this time of us talking about one single day in the life. Theoretically we're devoting so much now to this one single day. You would have had to have thought that this was a pretty unique

day for them. But then, like Steve said, if you were just a freezing American household, what are the chances that you're gonna freeze it when something radically unusual is happening. And so, you know, his point was this was probably just a day in the park for these guys to go, or maybe a day of the season. You know, we talked about that potentially being a honey hole. Maybe that was you know, September October there there. What do you think, I mean, do you think this was unusual or this

was just normal? This is just what falsome hunters did? Well, I don't know. I mean, no one knows. Uh. I would think it would be fairly normal occasionally, if that makes any sense. I mean, it's like you hunting, Dan, I mean some some days you have or some maybe every four or five years you might have ten or fifteen deer come by, or you know, and most most years and you're lucky to have one or two. But uh, you know, I think to survive, they had to have

days like that occasionally. It would be my thinking, but that would be an unusual, unusual day. Think about the preservation bias of that. Though. The chances of us finding something really unusual would be wildly statistically improbable, would it not. The fact that we found anything is statistically improbable. But then whatever, you if you find something, there had to be a whole lot of that happening in order for you to find it. So yeah, I think it's gonna

be somewhat kind of like garious. Juji, if your life was frozen in time on a Tuesday afternoon, what would you be doing? Praying you out of prison? Any number of things, Planning for Thanksgiving, dinning for Christmas next year, taking notes, deciding not to take that one you ju nwcom is a legend where she comes from in the school systems. I think the best way to demonstrate this is your trip to this bar. Oh wow, someone there.

I don't know if that's too off the well. I mean, you've opened up a whole kind of the one time, the one time I went into this bar the one time. So if we were just randomly find you if you would have been thousand years later and clays remains are at the line. Bar I bet that happened once in his whole life. I have a thought there. I just looked up Maslow's model before we started this, and they've changed it. This is crazy. But when I was in

college in the seventies, early seventies, late sixties, Maslow's model. Yeah, I mean, and the very first one was security. I mean, you don't worry about a full wheeler. You're not worrying about shopping for Christmas. You're worried about where's my next meal coming from? And so their whole life, I would say they had didn't move up to that next section of insurance or security or whatever it might be. I mean, yeah, for a nine oh twelve our system or you know

whatever you're gonna make up next. Uh, but uh, totally different in the way we are. You just think it's so unusual that we have so much time to go monkey around. I mean, you know, we work forty hour week. I mean, what do you do with the rest of that time? I mean we're out monkey and stuff up. And we were human experience compared to the vast majority

of humans that have lived on planet Earth. I mean, you remember those statistics about hundred and seventeen billion Homo sapiens that have ever lived seven point eight billion on the planet today. Of humans that have ever lived, there's no demographic data on them because their lives are lost before history was recorded. I remembered, sir, Hey, I remember my dad. I mean, when when I was a kid, I mean, it was like we didn't have time for

all this recreation. I mean, you know, I mean, it wasn't like, you know, we're going out and eat two or three times a week. You know, we weren't. I mean, you know, it was just remember I remember you. So when we when I was a kid, I remember us going to a piece of property or something, and you were oftentimes looking for a piece of land or something, and we talked about the view. You know, boy, this this is a pretty view on this property, and that

view gave it value. And I remember you told me, you said, man, back when we were kids, people didn't think like that. People people bought a piece of property because they could make a living or homestead on it, or like they weren't they weren't thinking about this aesthetic things that we now attribute value to. So when you think about those people, what they did. They got up in the morning and they had their coffee and they weren't talking about some fishing trip like Josh would be doing.

They're trying to catch a fish. We got to feed the fan. Yeah, yeah, now that's a very that That point is what most impacts me about understanding who these people were. It's just they lived radically different lives in us. Yet we're just like us. Absolutely, they were just they were just like us. If you would have took one of their babies and put it into Juju Nucam's class at her school, that kid could have grown up and

been the president of the United States. And you know, I'm sorry, go ahead, dad, Well you know, I just say that we can adapt to anything. I mean, we could actually go back to almost those times and get adapted. Get you know how we've handled COVID when when they put through me into basic training. Man, I could have spent the rest of my life in basic training. I mean I just adjusted to it. So hard times we adjust to it. You know. We we looked, we set

new goals and objectives and we enjoy accomplishing them. And uh, I think these were happy people and they love life. You know, when you started describing the things, how would you like to live in this extreme cold weather? How would you like to wear animal stuff? I was going I like it. I like that. I like this, do you heard me? And then when you got to the park, and afterday, I go, I don't like this. I mean I probably would have enjoyed where the thing is is.

You wouldn't have known any different, That's right, That's right, you would. You would not have had anything to compare it to. They thought they were living high on the hog. That's right. When I was in college, if I had known that these girls were gonna have sell phones and all this stuff they have, I would have been unhappy. But I wasn't unnappy because I had no idea I'd ever have a cell phone or all the technology. But are you going to leave your listeners wondering what Juju

was doing in a bar? Okay? Yeah? Yeah, so this is what happened, is uh And again we're talking about how famous and loved Juju is in the community down there. And uh so one time me and me and Bear were hunting and we lost our mule. Okay, we're out in public land and the mule got away from us. We were camping, mule got away from us, ran off. We come back to camp, mule's gone, and where I was hunting, the closest civilization was this establishment that was

a bar okay and um so it was. It was a Saturday night and we hiked off in the dark. Because I'm not gonna go into full detail, you could watch me tell this story and its entirety on the Barony Magazine YouTube channel. And so I was afraid that we were camped way in the back country and it was dark. We came back to the camp and the mules gone. I figured, the mules run back to the truck, and it's gonna be just freaking havoc out, you know, by itself. And I figured somebody was gonna drive by.

I see a mule with a broke lead rope, and I think I was dead or something. And so I envisioned like the sheriff's coming and looking for me and whatnot. So I said, bear, we gotta get that. We gotta go find this mule. Hauled my saddle out all the way out, like carrying the saddle on my shoulder along with our whole camp and uh, get back down to the truck and the mule's not there. Well, I drive to the closest place, which was this bar, and I got and I walked its Saturday night. I pull up

and Bear was a young kid at the time. This was years ago. Bear was like ten years old, And I go, Bear, if I don't come out, you, if I'm not back here in ten minutes, you're getting this truck and you drive until you find somebody. What did you think that that was actually a joke. I didn't say that. What I did tell him was was I just said, Bear, you hunker down in this car, this truck, and do not answer. I mean, if somebody walks over here to this truck, just high okay. It's a rough place.

And so I walk into this bar and I'm fully decked out and camo and I walked through the door and the place is just bouncing, you know, with country music, and uh there's I don't know, ten or fifteen people there, and there's just a classic bar, you know, and the music is so loud you can't hear anything. And I I walk up to the bar and the bartender pretty quickly comes over to me and I just go. I just remember I said this almost word for words. This

is like a bad joke. My name's Clay Nukem. And I lost my mule and I'm yelling this, okay because the music so loud. I lost my mule, and I want to leave you my phone number in case somebody sees it or you find it and you can call me. And he goes, what he can't hear it? So I yell at even louder, and by this time everybody in the whole bar is looking at me, and they're all listening. And I guess because I'm yelling so loud, they all can hear me. Can the music down? Yeah? I mean

I should have said that. I should have said Alexis turned the music down. Um. And so I just remember yelling at this guy and he's just like looking at me, just like and like, I got two people down from me, goes, have you ever been in there before that? MW? And I go, doll, the mule has never been back there,

and he goes, you'll never find that, MW. I remember that, and then and then standing up, I just want to make it clear, and I'm talking to this bartender, and then to my left like seven or eight people down at the end of the bar. This guy, this guy stands up, and I'm telling you, he was wobbling just a little bit, and he said, what's your name? And I looked at him and I realized he's talking to me, and I said Clay Knuckle. And he said, is your

mother Judy Knuckle? And I go and like a thousand things are going through my mind, mainly why does this man know my mother's name. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know if we're about to get in a fight. I didn't know you i'm your father. So I just kind of bow up and I say, yes, she is. And he got his his his his countenance turned from like stern and inquisitive. He just kind of like melted into a smile and he said, she's my teacher. He didn't say he didn't say she was my teacher. He said,

she is my teacher. This is a grown man, like older than me. And he loved Juju so much that apparently he is like Juju Nukam was my teacher, And did you do a lot of teaching on the bars, Judy? And so I came home. I went back and I said I walked in and I said, Juju, well, they sure know your name down at the bar, and I had a few questions for her. Did you find the mule? Yes, the mule came back to our original campsite. No, it was a mule. I don't have name. She was wild

as a wind, which nearly killed me multi time. Good reason to get a Yeah. I warned the guy that I gave her to or that I traded her too. I told him, I said, she'll kick you and she'll run off with you. I fear that he didn't tell the God that I have not heard. You cannot find that man to save your life. I was honest with him. All right, Hey, merry Christmas. Than I enjoyed it. I enjoyed cookies and thank you. All right we got before we send you off on the render. Today we got

a little song for you, Josh Spellmaker. We wish you a merry Christmas. We wish you a merry Christmas. We wish you a merry Christmas. And happy do We wish you a merry Christmas. We wish you a merry Christmas. We wish you a merry Christmas. Happy do you? Good time? Widings? We bring to you and the kid tidings for Christmas and a happy new Year. We wish you a merry Christmas. Wish you a merry Christmas. We wish you a merry Christmas. Harry Christmas, our good buddy, Brent Reeves couldn't make it

to the Render Christmas party. Very sad, but here's a message from Brent. Hey. This is Brent Reeves with a bear Grease, Render Hate. I couldn't be at the party today. I know it was a good time because there was a lot of good folks there. I got everybody the presence that they wanted, except for you, Clay. I'm I'm sorry, buddy. They just don't make a Steve Vanilla action figure. Best I could come up with was an old naked g I Joe we found in the attic that belonged to

my son. I made him a suit close out of a out of a squirrel eyed that we were saving the type flies with. That is just going to have to do until we can come up with something different. I do want to thank you guys for allowing me to be a part of this and wish every one of you and everyone listening a very very merry Christmas. What do you think that was terrible,