Ep. 31: Bear Grease [Render] - Tough Bowhunting, OnX Dudes, and Analyzing Folsom

you about meat Eater Gifts. From December six through December of all sale orders over fifty dollars on the meat Eater store website will be donated to organizations handpicked by the team. The organization that I'm gonna donate my portion too is Sportsman's Alliance. These guys are guarding the gate. They're protecting our rights as hunters, and that is often a thankless job, and I want to say thanks to

Sportsman's Alliance. So if you use the code Clay on your meat Eator store purchase over fifty dollars, that money will go to them. Also, you'll be able to see my top ten picks for gift ideas on the Mediator store, which they got all kinds of stuff. They got tethered saddles, they got game bags, they got knives, they got t shirts, and soon we're gonna have some burglaries. Merch that's coming.

Check this out, meteor gifts, Merry Christmas. All right, I just want you guys to know that, uh, this is like a little insider info here, because you guys are a whole new crew. You're gonna be heavily scrutinized by the regular render people. Okay, so every word you say is going to be evaluated. It's gonna be talked about amongst the group. So who's usually other render is my wife, Mimry Nukam, sharp as attack, will pin you to the wall if you get a fact wrong. Brent Reeves, witty

as they come. Daniel Rupe, I mean that guy. You don't want to mess with him. So I'm not trying to uh, I'm not trying to scare you, just trying to tell you you're gonna be scrutinized because we have a new group. Welcome to the Burgary Surrender guys. So we have a totally new crew. There's this has only happened one other time, So welcome to the Burgery Srender. Man. I can't wait to introduce all you guys. So we are in northwest Arkansas in the midst of the worst

white tailed deer hunt that probably have ever had. And uh it's been in the seventies every day for Arkansas, which is very hot, and we've been hunting. Tomorrow will be our fifth day of hunting and we've we've killed one dough and one cotton tail rabbit. We won't go into the details of who killed these animals, but maybe later we will. Now, let me introduce my guest to my left, Jared Larson of on X. Jared. It's an

honored be here, Clay. I'm welcome man. I'm stoked to be on the bear Gara surrender and I'm excited about talking about the falesome sight. Yeah. As tough as the hunting has been this week, me and my cameraman White Cole, we're talking. When we crawled out of our stand this morning, we've barely seen a deer. And this has been one of the funniest weeks in deer camp just because of the camaraderie and UH and the entertainment value that the

boys have brought to YEA. You know what, justin I kind of had the same conversation on the way out of the woods after basically seeing nothing today, I just said, man, it sure seems like we've had a good time. Shouldn't we be having a bad time because we have such a bad hunt? I mean, why this more? I was like, dude, it's already Thursday. And I was like, well, yeah, you're right, which usually doesn't happen when you sit for four days in a row without seeing deer. Yeah, it's tough. So, Jared,

what do you so? So, guys, Okay, introductions go slow. Okay, So we're gonna take our time here. This is important. People are important, Rusty Johnson, Jared, what do you do for on X so? I am the white tail marketing manager for lack of better term, at on X. Tell us what on X is? I mean, most people would know,

but there's something that wouldn't yep. So on X I work on the on X hunt app team, um, and we build a GPS mapping app that change your smartphone into a functional GPS whether you have service, whether you don't have service. Our bread and butter is private landownership data um. But it's it's used for a plethora of different game species from hunting elk in Washington to squirrels

in West Virginia. Um, if you like to hunt, heck, if you just like to get outside, there is going to be value for you in the on X hunt app. If nothing else, it keeps you from getting lost. Hey, okay, Rusty, if do you ever feel like we're getting punked by the cell phone companies and maybe even by these guys when we don't have cell service and they can still our phones are still GPS? Is right? I mean you

know what I'm saying. Yeah, that's one of my favorite features is the offline no kid and we we have a lot of Jared Well, you know, you punch in two lines of code to some software engineering and it's done, and your phone's GPS. Used to GPS was like a big deal. You have to go like buy your own GPS and anymore. Not so on X man, good to have you, guys. I'm gonna go out of order and I'm gonna introduce Zack Sandow. Zack you work for on X two. I didn't come to the burgeras rerender. Yes,

thank you, I'm excited. I've been listening to these since the first one. Hey, he really doesn't he pulls up man, Okay, if you listen to the Burgeries podcast, Clay nucom knows it real quick. I could go through and I could tell each one of you guys how many times you've listened to it and how many times you have based up on basically, like you know how they're tracking you know,

these companies track people's data. Not I tracked my friends data on how much they've listened to the Burgeries podcast. And Zack Sandal listens to it because he was pulling up little facts from the Boon podcast like weeks ago. He was like, man that when Dan Boone did that. I was like, you really listen, don't you? And he was like yeah, so honestly for me, like it's when it first came out. We work with you anyways. But

the storytelling of it was sweet. And I do a lot of drives hunting season, Like when I'm driving across state, it's the perfect thing to listen to a good mix up from the trick aditional podcast, especially in the hunting industry. I mean it was easy, like I just had him. I download four or five of them and listened to him on a full trip there and back, and so it was always great but yeah, no, I'm pumped. I'm pumped talking about this one. Um myself, I've worked it

on X for six years now. I managed the Hunt team, work with marketing team, and then the folks. We have a you know, awesome team in our company as well. You know, we have our Hunt product, that's our baby, that's what got us started. But now we have an off road product, and then we also have backcountry products. So we've growned quite a bit since Jared and I

first started. There was thirty two people when I started, and what was it like fifty sixty when Jared started, And we're much much bigger than that now four and half and six years later, so it's been really cool. Now you're originally from Montana, yep. I was born and raised in Missoula, Montana. So the home office is yeah, that's cool. Yeah, and now Jared, you're from Wisconsin. Yes, yes,

White Tails, White Tales. So to your left, Jared is my buddy, justin MI show, justin Welcome to the Burger's your intermat buddy. I feel like I've been on this just by hanging in a tree with you. Yeah, we've had a podcast going for five days. I talked Justin's ear off and together, just NonStop chatterbox. I learned a lot from you, man. So Justin, Justin went to Canada with me this year and filmed, and then he's been

with me this whole week in film. We didn't know each other before that though, so back in September when we first met, and we've had a great time. Justin is extremely talented and good at what he does. Let me just tell you if you're if you're needing a I better not say this. People from other companies might listen to this. If you're going on fighting Mark Me and Mark Kenyan fight over Justin when we're tree stand

white tail hunting because he's the man. So no, Justin's really good photographer, really good videographer, really good to have hanging in a tree with you in A good white tail hunter too, So I go to him for advice what you wish would do. Justin hadn't worked too much this week, but yeah, you know sent control, so sent control, that's right, that's right. Now. I'm kid. You're from New York, yes,

not originally of kids, South Carolina. So I feel like with these accents that are flying around here, I feel a little bit like I'm at home. But um, yeah, because all the Yankee accents. No, no, no, no, you guys, the Arkansas boys. It feels like South Carolina. You guys got the same Southern flair. And I was just the gas station. They had fried chicken by the register. I knew I was in the right place. But yeah, I got a lot of kids, not a lot. Three three

kids are all great. To your left, to Justin's left, my old buddy, Rusty Johnson, how's it going, man, It is going good. I'm glad to be here finally sharing a camp with Clay nuclem Man. Rusty and I have known each other since two thousand seven when I killed a deer and you were an official pope and Young Score. Yeah, looked you up. However, we found Pope Young Scores back then, probably on the internet and uh, you know it's probably in like a Yellow Pages book. It's probably like that

long long time ago. Yeah, but no, it's it's been fun hunting with this week. Yeah, yeah, it's been a joy. We've had a blast. Yeah. What what do you think about all this? This has been like ridiculous, hadn't Oh man, this is probably the hottest and probably hardest hunt I've ever had this time of year here in Arkansas. I mean, it's is so unusual. I can't I don't know that we've broke records, but it would surprise me if we didn't.

Seventy six degrees on September or December two unreal. So, uh, we're gonna go around here in a minute and talk about Rusty. But to you or left, we got we got a couple of guys that aren't don't have headsets that are here. We'll go back to them. But to your left is your son, Rustin Johnson. What's going on? How are you doing? Man? I'm doing really good. When I met Rusting, he was just a little, just a little dude. I was still chubby, but I was a little. Yeah.

I taught you resting six three. If six three and you're you're you're not h You're not exactly petite at six at six three, man, I'm anywhere between three and four hundred pounds. It depends on what time of year, if I'm in hibernation or not. Oh man, well, you guys are so fun to watch. Father and son team. How are you? And your dad turned fifty just a few days ago at camp. Just turn it's been because he looks young for his age. He does. It looks good,

clean living man. We'll talk about rusties. Uh. We want to get a hunter to talk a little bit about rusties. Uh. Hunting style. But so the other guy that's here, it's hunter, rude Hunter, you're where are you from? I'm from Southeast Minnesota, Southeast Minnesota, and you've been hunting with Rusty Johnson all week? Give us Okay, what are you going to tell people about Rusty when you go back home next week? When you talk about his white tail hunting, his eccentricities, all

these things would describe him to us. He loves hunting white tails more than anybody on this earth, like there's no argument against it. And he spends more time in a tree than anybody. I mean, his straight up tactic is get a picture of a buck and then just go sit in the tree and wait for him to come back. It's real simple. Just spend as many hours in a tree as you possibly can, even if it's three hours before sunrise. I mean we've been waking up

at like, well he wakes up at like I don't know. Yeah, I've been in about and I come downstairs and he's sitting in the kitchen, fully dressed, waiting. We were joking this morning, um Hunter. Hunter was real proud of himself because on day three he felt like he'd woke up before Rusty and was gonna be ready. Because the first day Rusty said, we're truck is rolling out at four o'clock, and the guys like woke up Hunter at like three

fifty seven. It was four o'clock. It was four o'clocks and I was going out the door at four or three. That's pretty good. Yeah, And then and then so a couple of days later, he's like, Okay, I've been trained by Rusty. Now I'm gonna beat Rusty down the stairs and he cut. He walks in, He flips on the lights and there's Rusty sitting waiting, sitting in the darkest like I'm tapping his foot very impatiently, like like looking at like trucks running, everything's ready to go. It's just like, man,

this dude loves it, and you can't get enough. And you've been sitting long days. Yeah, we've been doing all day sits. And I mean, like, well, we get down and switch trees, but you're still in the woods all day, but it'll be like seventy five degrees. And this dude is like one might just walk by at noon and you know, even though you know he might get thirsty.

Me and Justin. It was actually Justin's idea. So today, so we have this group text thread going, you know, and uh, it turns out I'm kind of in the lead on like the point system we have going here. I wouldn't I wouldn't gonna mention who killed the deer and the rabbit, but Justin. So we decided we were gonna get down at like ten o'clock this morning, and what I was gonna say about Justin. We're coming back

to rusty, but I'm gonna talk about Justin. Justin every single day at about eight thirty starts talking about sausage, gravy and brutal and he'll start, He'll start like glaring into my eyes and kind of lean for ward and go, man, some flaky biscuits and some sausage gravy eggs, eggs, buttery eggs, and he sees it works on me. I kind of started to soften up a little bit. And so we go, we get down and he said, I said, well, maybe

it was my idea. It was your idea. You go to throw me under the bus, and I was gonna stay there, but I said, I'll tell you what. Let's do. Let's go to the town over here, twenty miles me, you and Zach because Zach was hunting with us. Let's get a big country breakfast and get back to camp. About you know, twelve thirty one o'clock, everybody's gonna be wondering where we're at. And what were you gonna say? Justin we've been hitting the herd? Were you you were

gonna say anything could happened? Because anything you happen to happen, you gotta be out there. But he was mocking Rusty what Breasty would say, So it was really funny. We laughed, We laughed. We didn't get breakfast. So I don't think that food trick would work on my dad, Rusty. He doesn't eat like at all during deer season. You know. The first day I sat with him, I was monitoring that, and uh, he ate a Hershey's Kenny bar with the nuts in it, and that's like his go to drink

one bottle of water at noon. He ate a granola bar and that was it. All day said all day. Meanwhile, I'm on like your three thousand calories. And there was also a rumor going around the camp the first day that like in an all day sit like setting across from you, you're filming them. He said like ten words. Uh. Kind of warmed up later in the week, Yeah, we did. Like day three, we talked about beaver chapping. We got really close after that, but that that was like two

minutes two minutes max. I mean we're in there to kill a deer, you know. Yeah, I mean you can't kill a deer if you're talking. Well, that's not necessarily strange that this strange that, Yeah, like out of the team, Nukeamshoe is winning. I mean we've been passing the last couple of days, pass them if they're a hundred thirty yards. Were at about ten you were saying brown, it's down. I mean, Rusty has high standards. Now, what I did learn about Rusty on this on this trip, you get

like anxiety before a hunt, like excitement anxiety. Absolutely, talk to us about that can help you. Well. When I wake up, I mean I'm so worked, I don't get much sleep, you know, when I'm hunting like this, and when I wake up in the morning, I have this gag. I mean, I just start gagging because I'm I've got so much excitement and I'm so ready to go. I mean, it just it's the anxiety. I mean, it's just I'm so excited about often would you say you feel that

much excitement slash anxiety about a white to hunt? Every day that I go, I hear the puke and every time see I'm still like asleep, but he wakes me up about to leave and he's puking. Dagon. This is after four days. I've done this for years. I've just I mean, I love it so much that it just it just gets to me. I don't know what it Dared, What do you think about this? It blows my mind, Like I mean, I love white tail hunting. Um, but Rusty getting up like a full solid two hours before

everybody else in camp. I mean the fact that he sits in the dark, drinking coffee, waiting for his camera like he is beyond the next level. And I will echo Hunter's sentiment that throw some names out there that might like white tailed deer hunting as much as Rusty Johnson. And let's put him in the camp together. Let's see my money's on Rusty, like whatever it is. You snapchat at me earlier this week and the you had the little temperature gage on it was sixty seven and it

was like one pm. You had the time stamp on there, and you said, we're sitting in a food plot waiting for one. And I just was dying because the rest of us were sitting in camp eating sandwiches and you're playing justin. They were shocked, pouch and one out. Yea, that could be true. Rusty was sitting on a food plot in seven December one waiting not a big one. We've seen a big one, big spike Minnesota eleven point as you've northern Minnesota eleven Okay, we would have had

a big one down. But I was in school for most of the time. This is the first day I've got the hunt. Yeah. Yeah, I've been hitting the books. Yeah, Rusting is in law school. Yeah, shock of the camp. I mean, I've known this for years, but you look like a lawyer. I'm in my last year law school. I feel like I've been in school forever. But it's going. That's awesome, man, that is almost to the finish line. I couldn't know a guy like that. Just get trouble,

you know, never know. Hey, the guy that I haven't introduced yet, it's Dalton, Dalton. How's it going? Man? Awesome? Man, it's awesome to be hard to say about Rusty. You know Rusty, but as well as anybody. There's huge pros and cons to hunting with Rusty, and I think the guys have touched it pretty good. The only negative to hunting with Rusty is you start questioning how much you actually like to deer hunt. Like that's the best way I can describe it. You think that you love hunting,

and you get hyped up. I sat with this guy for thirteen days in Kansas, so we we hunted thirteen days. I think the first five we don't know that we saw a deer. We hit it terrible timing. We had to make adjustments. And he's not joking. Every single morning that light came on at to thirty in the morning. I don't set alarms when I stay with him anymore because the dry heating wakes, the dry heating will wait. So this is verified by multiple sources. Yeah, you don't

even set alarm. You might just you may want to get that checked out, buddy, But that's incredible. Thou mean it's December, right, It's December on one of the hardest times we've been on UH in years, and he's still he's that way every single time. And you killed a big buck. You've killed two good bucks this year, have Yeah, And he killed a big one in public Land I did a week ago. Yeah, I'm I'm excited about that one, but I'm I'm also a little bit sad about it

because that's a buck that Rustin was chasing. He hunted his butt off for that buck, and I go in there in two days and knocked him down. But sorry, but that's just that. Yeah, that's it's a really nice uh. It's the biggest eight point I've ever killed. Yeah, and I've killed some pretty good eight points. Well, I asked him about his last biggest eight point because I also had that one on Cameron was hunting it and then he goes in there and kills it. Yeah he didn't

Yeah last year. That's nice, but I kind of set him up on it, so I was happy that he did it. Yeah. You know, talking about Rusty liking to hunt so much, I identify with that because I remember before I got into the outdoor industry. I remember seeing all these guys in the outdoor industry and the problem with comparing people to people in an event, where like in sports, you know, you can compare like stats, you know, like how many points did he score? How many points

did he score? We got to scored more points is better. The problem with hunting is that it's not like that at all, not not even remotely like that. And nor is there any reason really why we would compare one hunter to another hunter, but what we do all I remember when I was not in outdoor industry at all, and I remember having a thought, I'm not I don't need to be the best hunter. I don't. I'll never

be the best hunter at what I do. But I remember thinking it is not possible to love hunting more than I love it, and that validated me as a young man. I'm not saying my the way I would express that would be different than you would, but I'm saying that is a valuable, valuable that's a gift man

to be passionate about something. Man. When I meet people that are not passionate about something, I don't understand that person to be passionate about something is a gift man, and as long as it doesn't control your life in a negative way, there are things that we can get into that like distort us and make us kind of screwed up as humans. I don't see that inside of

your world. Rusty has a strong family, He's got a he's he's a great husband, he's a great father, and so like this hasn't messed you up because it messes people up, it does, you know what I'm saying. I

mean you can, you can. You can take something to an extreme where maybe maybe the guy is like so, you know, so performance oriented that the rest of his life is a wreck and or my whole hunting career, I've been interested in being as passionate as I could be and being the best that I could possibly be while maintaining balance inside of my life because I knew that for white till a deera only means so much, but it means a tough and when you have a

big world that it fits inside of kind of a context. If I could say that way, and I see that with you in Rusting, Yeah, and it and it was passed along from from my side. Yes, yeah, your dad I's one of one of the best hunters that I know. Yeah, I mean he don't hunt much anymore. You know, he's getting older now, but uh, I mean he he is. I learned everything that I know from him, and he is one of the best hunters that I've ever seen.

And see the first time I ever met you, you were with your dad, and I recognize that you and your dad had a really strong relationship. And uh, he was an official score to just like you are. You guys know what we do on the Burgary Surrender? We have to Uh, is there anything else we should come? Well, I think I want to go around and have you Peggan number on how many Burgeries episodes that we've all

listened to. Oh sure, because yeah, you said you said you were pretty dialed, No problem, Um, we sat over under. This is totally this is totally going off. Just uh, this isn't like data that I have like behind the scenes. This is just me interacting with you and this is your intuition. I would say Jared has probably listened to seventy of them. Justin's listened to five. Rusties listened to about five percent or five five total total episodes. Rusties

listened to one. Probably Dalton's listened to three, Rustin is listened to probably eighty percent of them, maybe in the ballpark, ballpark, maybe a little a little bit lower. I'm a busy guy, i'd say, okay, so off, yeah, well, I'm in law school, got United outdoors and fireside apparel. Your recollection of the ones you did worked, And Zach, you probably listened to, oh, justin showing me as deal? Do you see this? These are your top three? So you've listened to more than five?

Are offending tomorrow? And Zach, how many of you listen to that? I don't know. I was trying to think of that. I think you have what thirty two episodes? Thirty episodes? I would say I'm over twenty for sure. I don't know where I'm at, you know, like seventies and I can't say, okay, now tell me how I did. Uh. You were proudly I'm proud about If there were thirty episodes, I've probably been at that you were in the realm. I was impressed. Okay, I was off on Justin just nah,

but you were exactly correct. And I listened to it today. But after listening to it, I locked it and I'm gonna I'm gonna start listening to him. Dalton, I think I'm exactly three. Actually you said three, Okay, I think it's exactly three. Okay, I don't know. Yeah, you should give a little spiel about I mean, I think the hunt could be summed up. I hadn't seen much for the first three days. The last two days, he's been

in the game. In the game. I am in the game. Yeah, he uh yeah, those first two or three days were terrible, terrible. But then uh, we moved over here to this new area and well lots first, Uh Clay nucom here just wrangling private permission. Yeah, we need to start. We need to start from the beginning. We came here to hunt public land in Arkansas, bow hunt public land starting on

remember twenty nine. We gotta give credit to Rusty Dalton and Rustin from United Outdoors for spending I don't know how many hours in boot miles to scout and have you know, some ideas laid out for us. But Mother Nature came in this same week last year. It was on fire. Remember that you were texting me from the

tree stay And what's cool. What was cool about this for me is this is a place that I used to hunt but had not hunted it probably it's two thousand five, So that that's kind of the overarching thing. And then we we got permission on a big piece of property over here just for the days we're here. Just kind of random deal. We ran into somebody they happen to have a big piece of property and they happen to let all of us bow hunt it. And it's it's a really good piece of property. I mean,

the fantastic piece. Just the weather and timing is still really tough. But Rusty is on one. Tell us your story now, Well, I got lucky. You know. We kind of all dispersed and kind of spread out, and Clay kind of told you where to go, and Clay dropped me, dropped me a pen, and so that's where me and Hunter went. I got lucky. Yeah, that's kind of what I had in the back of my mind. He was guard holding me. But anyway, it turned out really good.

I mean, we saw a lot of deer. We saw a really nice eight point come out, grunted him into the base of the tree. We decided to let him go by everybody else we saw. We saw we saw a nice little six point spike. We saw a lot of dose over twenty dough. I lost count of how many those we saw. So uh we noticed where they come out of the woods and uh, right at last light, Uh, hunter said, here comes a deer down the fence line.

He said, I think it's a small buck. So I put my binoculars up and I said no, I said, that's a shooter. So I mean, we were running out a light really fast, and he got into about fifteen yards and he smelled us and he started snorting, but he wasn't moving anywhere. He would just stomp his foot and he was snort. And I just need him to take a couple of private lab at cheer bucks man. Yeah, two steps, that's all I needed for him to, you know, to get in an opening. And he stood there, he

stood there. We were losing light, losing light. He finally took those two steps. I come to full draw. I could not see my pen in the peach side. So it was game over at that time at that time, so I just let my draw down on and we just sat there and he finally he'sed off. So we made another play on him tonight, and we again misjudged where he was going to come out, and uh, we saw him again and he got within fifty yards and I actually draw it on him. And again it was late,

low light. I couldn't see my pin and my peep. I don't think I would have took that shot anyway. I mean, forty is about my max nowadays. When I was younger, I might have shot a little further. But so he eased off. So we got one more day to make another play on him, and I feel confident if he does what he did today, then we might have a shot at him. I'm hoping keep my fingers crossed. You know, we're all rooting for you man. We need some excitement around here. I believe this Dear's would bring

some excitement to the camp. I mean, hey, he's a really good both. I think a spike another rabbit tomorrow would bring I think you're right, that's not a noverally true statement. The excite and level has never wavered. I mean there's been positivity and a lot of chatter going on, so you know, it would just be some nice icing on the cake to come through in the fourth quarter. Yeah, let's be careful not to start any rumors. Deer hunting is terrible. Turkey gutting is terrible. Might as well go

to Missouri. Yeah, I'm kind of starting hunt in Oklahoma. So Oklahoma hunting is terrible too, So don't go there. Uh, justin What do you think of this hunting? You've you hunt it all over the country. Really it's tough, man. I mean again, I feel like you can't get past the barrier of it being seventy five degrees in December. I mean, you told me on the phone when we first talked about this trip, that's gonna be tough. You know, I didn't imagine it being like this, But I mean

it was cool to go in. You know, we got a mile back in from the truck in some series terrain coming you know, from New York and making judgments on how where to sit based on like food and things like that. It's just like, there's no food here. I don't know how you how these deer survive. I have no clue and three days to find deer poop. They don't. They don't poop. I've been intrigued at like because I'll say to you and like I we're looking

at the map, I'm like, where's the food? Like where Why would these deer get up from one spot like they should just lay there and die. There's no now besides for no food, there's like baseball and softball size rocks underneath, like four inches. The leaves rock ankle busters, so if they move to try to find food, they break their their ankles. So it sucks to be a deer here, and that's probably why we're not around. And every treat, if you decide to get up, Rusty will

kill you. He's got so many drunk cameras out he knows when every deer in this county stands up. Yeah. Man, Well while we're sitting here, you know, our shirts hanging off in like swimsuit weather, I'm getting photos of deer back home. So as soon as we can wrap this up, there's I see actual food on these cameras, that deer eating. It's good, I mean. But like I was saying, we went back in a mile from the truck, and obviously at home too. You have to pick bots based on

terrain and movement. And like you know, we sat and again it felt like nowhere Ville. For two nights or two SIPs saw a deer. The first night they were just had a range um. And then the next morning we sat and man, the only deer we saw, I ended up on your back. I want to talk about that, I rusty. I don't know if I told you the whole situation with that dough man. Let me say as well, I was absolutely thrilled to go back in where we did and kill that deer. I hunted back in there

when I was in college. I think about that spot to this day. A fall doesn't go by where I don't think about that spot back there where I took Justin Yeah, because it was when I cut my teeth bow hunting over here. I mean, I left Gary Newcomb's camp Camp Newcomb and was flushed out on my own, you know. And I found that spot on topo map before on X when we actually went to the store and bought a big three by three topo map. But I hadn't been back there. I just moved, have done

other stuff, you know. So to go back in there and even just to kill a dough thrilled. I'm serious. That's the highlight of my season. I've killed three pretty good bucks. I told Justin As there's a one of my arrows is still in a tree over there. Somewhere because I missed a deer up there at like forty yards in my area, stuck in a tree, and I just left it there for the anthropologists in ten thousand years when I was in school years ago, and uh yeah, yeah,

that's gonna be. But I want to talk about this dough real quick. This dough came in. We were up just under thirty ft we were. We were real high, because that's the way you beat a deer's nose. Boys get up real high. Passed all the way around us, and actually dropped down into the kind of head of this hollow. And I was hanging as absolutely far to the left as you could in a tree saddle. I've got my feet like you know, just like on this side of my platform, and I'm just like hanging off.

And this deer steps out to thirty yards and I knew it because I had ranged openings, and I just knew it was about thirty yards. The deer, it's it's thick. I drew before she came into the opening, and it was just perfect. And she got into the opening back grunted at her. There was one vine about half the size of your pinky that was running up about three ft in front of her, right over the vitals, and I chose to send it uh that if it deflected like it was close enough to her that it wasn't

gonna be an issue. If that vine had been fifteen feet away, it would be a different shot. In in my mind, I just hit it right where I was aiming, thirty yards And so now the deer is probably forty ft below me though, because I'm thirty ft from the ground and the deer is at least ten ft below the base of the tree. Am I right? So it's way down there. Shoot. In my mind, I just see that. I just see it just go right where I wanted.

But still it's a long shot. It couldn't really tell the deer mule kicks, runs out there, stops fifty yards away, and I think it's just gonna start tumbling down the hill. It stops, it turns, and it starts walking, and I go, oh man, and it gets down. It just walks out of sight, and then we hear deer start blowing. And

I know the deer that shot isn't blowing. But in your mind you're thinking I just shot blow it, and and justin I even said, did I miss that deer, and Justin was like, I kind of swear heard you hit it, and I said, I could have swear I saw me hit it with my eyes. And then but then it's there's a big log right behind this dough, and I think maybe I went right under that dough and it hit that log and just thudded, and it

sounded like I hit her. Nothing like what goes through your mind after releasing an hour seconds and so we sat up there for twenty minutes. I get down, I walk over to the arrow. Well, first of all, from the tree stand, we were glass in the arrow, and the arrow has no blood on it that we can tell. And I'm in my mind thinking I just tendering this

deer and this arrow is not adding up. I get down, walk over to it, pick up the arrow, and I'm telling you that arrow was almost clean and it had stomach content on it, very little blood and white hair. So I go back up and report to Justin and say not good buddy. And we set up in a tree for two hours, and I'm like kind of in the dumps, just like, man, I just gut shot this deer. This is you know, we're gonna track the steer all day. We're over a mile from the truck. I finally get

down start tracking it. Spotty, spotty blood, dark liver, blood, not very much liver blood, stomach content and little specks of blood. Trail it to the log where we saw it. Turns downhill. We get about ten yards from where I saw it, and there's a deer laying there dead. And I walked down there and I absolutely tin ring that deer. I hit it. I counted ribs. I hit it four ribs into the rib cage. The deer's quartering away from me,

one to three, four ribs in entry hole. The arrow exited about three inches behind the front shoulder in the lower one third of the cavity, entered right here, came out right here, knee crops. He showed liver and double lung and she walked away, and she walked away in that era was covered in She expandable head and it was blown. She was blowing stomach contents out of her hole. But it was the entry hole had stomach condo. It

was just wild. I mean, everything about every single factor that would tell me gut shot, but my eyes told me it was a tin ring. Anyway, it's a good shot. It was a good shot, so it worked well. And it's a dang good thing that Clay did ten ring that thing because I was in charge of the food plan and I just planned in a night of venison because all I heard was about this on Fire Week in December, and boy, we just about went hungry one night. Yeah,

we were talking about the temperature. Let me yeah, okay, Well back to my my arrow that is lodged in an oak tree, back on that ridge on public land that anthropologists will dig up the point of the burgers renders. We need to talk about this, uh the Folesome Part two podcasts, Killing Bison with Stone Points Jared, what did you think what stood out to you? Well? There alright, So the one thing that stood out to me is the number that I think I heard was thirty two

bison and bison antiquis. And you know what, it sounded like they they harvested these bison with some type of addle, addle or spear throwing. We're not What really stands out to me is I've butchered's milk, I've butchered some deer. I cannot imagine the amount of time and effort it took to butcher thirty two one thousand pound animals with stones.

Those people had to be there for days cutting up bison meat, like they maybe just lived there for a month, And like that part to me was just like, man, I I cannot imagine that workload. Yeah, that's a good point.

And what we don't know is how many people there were there were there well, and then you know, there was some speculation I think it was you and Steve going back and forth that these people it was not a populous area as far as human beings anywhere on this continant at that point in time, to the point that you, guys, um, we're saying that it likely wouldn't have been uncommon for you not to see anyone that

you weren't related to for your entire lifetime. Yeah, and so I mean, in my mind it is like, okay, what like fifteen people twenty people killed thirty two bison? I would if I was up there with an that laddle, I'd have been like, all right, guys, we gotta we got a lot a few of these things run away, Like I ain't butcherin for six months. Hey, that's a good how many got away though? That that's one thing that I was wondering how many was the herd actually,

how many was actually in the herd? And I can't remember in there did he explain why there were no bulls. It was just a that's a good point. It was a cow calf herd, so they just weren't that time of the year breeding was done, and bison segregate like that, and they'll be bachelor groups just like white tails, rusty bachelor groups, hanging out dog groups. So it was just

a cold it was in the fall. A question. So you say it's a cow calf herd, is there any knowledge or speculation around whether they valued the horns for antlers off of maybe the males and they might have

taken it with them. Well, they were not males killed at the fulsome site in that pile, because they accounted for the skulls of the females and calves, you know, so it wasn't like they were unaccounted for and they were able to tell that it was all females and so, and they left all the skulls and because they said that there's no value to them, right, so they wouldn't carry them because they're too heavy. Yeah, got the select

cuts and then got out of there. Yeah, it would be interesting to know how many got away, because undoubtedly you would think some would have gotten away. Yeah, what's crazy is like, I mean you shot that dough she ran fifty sixty yards? Like how how are they doing this? That they're just piled up right there? That's the mystery, man. I mean that you would think that they would run, like all died in the spot about as big as

this living room. They all figured they died right there, because I mean they weren't they found in the creek bed well, but also like the topography that they talked about plays into that, being at a box canyon, that top But I think it is interesting with that. For one, there's a couple of things going. I'll take a step back in a second. But how they knew it was in the fall, I think that was pretty cool. It's

so straightforward. But when he said it, it's like wow to look at that, And I asked him, I thought, why did not think of that? Yeah, I should have known that. It was really interesting. But with the box canyon, I thought it was interesting because immediately I thought, like, yeah, they're gonna disperse. It's crazy to think they drug them

all to one area to take care of them. We knew that they took select cuts, so if you're gonna do that, you could just do them where the animals are, get what you need and go, so you think it would be more dispersed. So I think the topography definitely plays into that, especially when you get into the tactics from Steve to who was a doctor. Meltzer was the one.

I think they both could be valid Um. Well, but now now Kyle Bell, Kyle Bell, So Meltzer and Steve you had the same idea that they were heard it in there and all kill and Meltzers, that they were coming in there on their own free will. Then that that was Kyle Bell, which without knowing the area, I it's tough to say. I think both could happen. So Steve thought that they were heard it in and they got stuck at the top of this box canyon no

place to escape. Kyle Bell thought they were going there freely, Bison are gonna do what they want, and they were going in there for some sort of mineral and then you know, knowing that they're going to go in there, it's a perfect ambush opportunity. This wasn't on the podcast. But this is why the Burgers renders all about the manager of the Crowfoot ranch, really sharp uh named Seth.

He thinks there was a mineral in there too, And I mean, what do you think we never heard an opinion from you, man, I gotta go with the experts. Dr Meltzer has literally devoted like a massive part of his career two studying this exact thing. I mean, he's still a lot of other stuff too, but I mean he literally wrote a textbook. Like the book that he wrote is like an academic textbook. I mean it's like it's not like a nonfiction like fun read. You know,

it's like a textbook. Man. So I just gotta believe the guy has more data points than he can say in a five minutes section on my podcast. And we talked a whole lot more. I mean I talked to him for hours, and we've now heard him speak on the podcast for like twenty one minutes. That's why it boiled down to with him. So you know, there's stuff you just gotta take out. That being said, these other guys who the Seth, this ranch manager, he's running catalog,

he's on that land all day. He knows that farm. He knows that place. You don't think you could push him in there. And then Kyle, he's got a convincing little SoundBite there. Like I've been on two or bison kills with bison. But Steve's point, I think is pretty a counter to that which is so strong, which was these bison literally may have never seen a bipedal human before. They could have walked up to these things and like

scratched him behind the ears before they killed them. I mean, I'm exaggerating, but these aren't domesticated bison like we would have today. So potentially the behavior of these animals and undoubtedly humans have we know from White talent, and I mean it's so clear human predation changes animal behavior, so potentially they could have been hearded. Yeah, and and I think they probably were heard in there. Do we know what the major predation source was at that time? You know,

that's a good question. I'd have to look it up. But there was some wild predators back then, man, there were I'm not sure if the dire wolves, they probably weren't around at that time. Definitely some simulation of a modern gray wolf. But I mean these bison and Tick was came out of a time of predation of like massive jaguars that are like three times as big, American cheetahs, American lions, sabertooth cats, but I think those were deeper

into history. It's it really is fascinating. And the other thing that's kind of shocking to me, at least from what I gleaned from the podcast, was they found the bison, you know, remains, they found some fulsome points, but there really wasn't any other artifacts that were found, you know, not nothing other that suggests that they made camp there for a while while they dealt with these bison, or that they were in the area for any significant period

of time. So probably on part three you'll hear David Meltzer talk more about that, because part three I asked him, I said, who were these people? Like, what do we know about these people? I mean, these were these were humans. They were like us, They had emotions, they had feelings, They were just like us. But they used flint rocks to clack together to make fire, and they made stone points out of church that they they're a little grittier than us. But and so I asked him, you know,

who are these people? And that's when he began to talk about how we do not know where they camped. And that's his biggest frustration, he told me, as he said we were there. We know so much about this site, he said, we cannot, for the life of us find find where they camped because they had to have camped close and there could have been remnants of a camp there. But over that long, what's gonna be left is and not the best or the other things that they might

have had. And I said this to Dr Meltzer, and uh, I'm not sure if it was an offensive question to ask an archaeologist, but I was like, I'm standing at the fulsome sight and you would have walked past it and it looked like every other place. You wouldn't have thought something special happened here. Yeah, looked like every other place. And by now, you know the excavation, the second excavation by Meltzer was done, and you know it was over twenty years ago, so it just looked like a drainage,

you know. And uh, And I'm standing there and I think, and I asked the guys I'm with, I'm like, how do we know there's not something incredible twelve feet under the ground right there? Nobody ever dug there. We don't. They literally dug up a spot about from from this living room wall to probably the kitchen door. I'm telling

the whole excavated. Know what I could You know, my measurements about be wrong, but I'm telling you you could have shot a recurve bow any side of that to the other one and could have I would have thought something this important. They would have went way beyond the bounds there. Well, no, you gotta be careful because that's okay. And this is when you learn about archaeology, which I'm doing.

Now you realize how it's like surgery. I mean, it's like saying, there's something wrong with this guy, why don't you just go in and fix it. Well, it's not like I mean, these guys are like taking months and months to excavate like a small area. I mean they're like removing I mean, so it's just an excavator like back in Georgia's time, shave off the bison skull to fit in the box. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You got a catalog all kinds of data points too, before you can

even remove the item. Right. Uh, you said that the paleontologists got there first and was concerned with the bones and everything. But then later the archaeologists came and they said that a lot of what the original excavation did like took no regard to Uh that's right, Yeah, yeah, they were they were they were worried about the bones,

and so they weren't that concerned about anything else. And at the time they excavated it, you know, we didn't have the technology that we do now with radiocarbon dating, and oh, I couldn't get into all the detail of what melts Er studied. I mean, it was like wildly

deep stuff about the sedimentation, the sediment layers. They were able to take those ten thousand year old bones and understand how long they were in the sun before they were covered with silt because the decay, you know how a bone, like if you had a deer bone, you know, somewhere wherever the sun was hitting it would turn white. Where it was touching the dirt, it would maintain its

natural color. And they felt like with pretty quickly, like within a couple of years, that thing was silted over and that's the reason it was preserved for ten thousand years, and then it was only uncovered once in recent times, within the past before Meltzer did was the first time. That was the excavation, and they removed everything that They

didn't leave anything in the ground on purpose. George mcjuncan found a small section of bones, you know, imagine a thirty two bits and killed right here, and there's a drainage right here. The new the flood pushed the cut bank of that drainage, you know, imagine three or four ft this way, exposed these bones enough for George to be like, those are cool. Somebody needs to come down here and check this out, you know, and then he dies. Nobody comes. Finally they come, and then this guy named

Carl Schwaheim, who was a friend of George's. The museum hired him. He was just he wasn't even an archaeologist. He was just a dude, you know. Yeah, And they hired him to get them a bison and tic with skull, because by that time they had been like, hey, those are that's bison andic was that's pretty cool. We need one of those. They hired, They hired Carl. Carl goes in there, starts digging. Carl finds at Falsome Point, which at the time wasn't a falsome point. He just finds

a stone point. It's like, dudes, I found sweet stone point. It's pretty cool. In Meltzer's book he has Carl Schwaheim's handwritten notes because Carl was instructed somehow to write notes of what he found every day. This is late no, no, this would have been nineteen something like that. And and Carl, it was a pretty good artist. And he drew in his notes the picture of the fulsome point that he found, and it looks just like it. And so how big are these? They're not real big man. The big ones

are like three inches long. Probably that long stone that they're made out of. Is that native to exactly right there? Or did it come from something? Grease podcasts? And he didn't even listen to that one? That good. They we talked about it on the podcast Rusty. They they got that stone from Texas hundred fifty miles away. And oh he did listen. Wasn't Steve saying that they were finding for or you could find falsome points throughout the west?

That's right, that's correct. Absolutely, so those those people roamed well shared technology. It wouldn't have been necessarily those people and the stone wouldn't have come from there, but that tech, that technology what he was describing was that that technology, and we're calling technology. The design of a point was clearly connected to people that were connected to one another. Like if you made a falsome point, it's to me,

is so neat from a human perspective? Is that falsome point represents so much more than just a stone point to kill an animal. If if you're in Montana and I'm in New Mexico and we make the same stone point, I gave wrong to you. We share the same value system. We probably shared the same understanding of who God is. We probably share the same value system of who, how we hunt, how we managed to land, how we raise.

I mean, there's just so much more that's transferred. And what's so fascinating, and Steve did such a cool job of bringing it out, is that the stone point isn't necessarily I mean, of all the things that could have been left, the stone point just happens to be made of a material that is basically yeah, and so all the everything else is gone. We have a stone point. It's a shame that that's all we have, because there's just like so many questions left unanswered, but it also

makes kind of fun. Oh it's sweet because it's it's a symbology of it. Like we're looking at just a stone point and essentially writing and narrative, well, trying to put together historical context, but then building a narrative and trying to get you know, an inference from this. And I was thinking about it. What you know, you're joking about your arrow and you know, someone to find ten thousand years, But like, let's take the arrow out of it.

What do we have that's that symbolic? Because like, as you're saying, those people are connected from that one point. What is something today that if someone found ten thousand years, would it even last? For one, wouldn't make it there? But then what is something that's that significant? When I was trying to think about it, I don't know if there is something people shooting expandable broadheads I was I was wondering what the cutting dia was on that falsome point.

You know, how effective that expandable? And they go, these guys were real chumps. Hey, actually, rusty, I have three expandables and three four four blades fixed heads in my quiver, and I've shot way more fixed blades over the last fifteen years. Next spandals, I'd no need to be proud. I just killed stuff and it dies. U. Now that what's so awesome. It's the mystery of this that is what makes it so unique. How did they kill these bisons?

We don't know, We wouldn't need I thought Steve's I mean, this is what Steve's good at, is like the idea that this was just a snapshot of time. Yeah, and trying to understand if this was a big deal or if it wasn't. Yeah, a day, just a normal day. Oh well, we need to go and get our meat harvest for the next three weeks. Let's go get them. Were they talking about it for years or did they talk about it for the rest of them? This is the pictograph on every wall in New Mexico? Is this

bison hunt? Incredible? Yeah? It makes me think, like how much of that got like when that flood came, how much of that stuff is four or five yards down further? You know? Yeah, so many of those you know bones. That brings up a good question of mine that I had, or my major question of pivotal point is there's so many different weather events and different climate changes in the

past ten thousand years. I'm wondering if some kind of weather event maybe artificially moved them together the site, or maybe the erosion and then the covering the erosion, how many cycles of that occurred over ten thousand years, and how that may have affected the site. Uh, there's just a lot of questions that I have that I don't. I don't know if I would. We'll see, we we do.

We do, like with with the certainty that with the highest level of scientific certainty, what they did when they went back seventy years later at fulsome if you if you read that textbook that full that that that Dr Malison between all the law No, that's that's exactly what they went back to understand was that they call it, uh the paleo geography, which is what was the geography of the land, uh paleo to what is it paleo topography, which is the the geology of the land throughout the

time period because the geology has changed, but also the I think he called the the stratigraphy of the land, which is the stratification of it. They're able to basically tell by the deposition and the layers that this this was not moved here by erosion number one. And he went on and on, and I asked him, and I just clipped out these, you know, kind of highlight points.

But I mean, what what they do, what archaeologists do, is determined that this happened culturally, not by the events of the natural world, like pushing the stuff together, because that could happen, like, for example, you know, you could have a bison kill down three or four ft below the surface and have gophers digging holes and burrows down there and knocking a stone point from the surface down there and falling. Then you find a bison kill with a stone point there, and you go, holy cow, you

know they're the same. Man. These boys make a living making sure that is not the case. And there's a phrase they use called n C two which means in place. I don't know. It's probably French for in place. Why we're using French words, I don't know. But basically, when they found that point, that fulsome point in between two ribs, it wasn't stuck in a rib. I thought it was stuck. Half the time I researched this, I thought they were saying it was stuck in a rib, And it was not.

It was laid in between two ribs. And there's an iconic photo and I'll put it on my Instagram of two ribs. And you know how we've all probably found air heads in the ground when you just see half of it sticking up and you're like, that's in C

two and and this was that. And then they found so many there was so many data points they can I think they can understand the flaking on a point to understand how old it is, so like these bones are tent that radio carbon date ten thousand years, these flakes, you know, the stone points come back as being verified of being that old. So it's like everything there. The sediment was that it was like no question. So it's

pretty little. Oh it's a d settled. See what I feel for Dr Meltzer though, is the various degrees of

quality control throughout this whole thing. Like, yes, he has a historical context and he can put this together, but he talked about like you know, the archaeolologists from the paleontologists, but then even the way they mapped it, it would be nice if he could just go and do it like you know, and get the full picture, because like how tough is that knowing someone And I was thinking about that, like people are trying to shoot wholes saying

that humans have people haven't been around for ten thousand years, and it's like you could look and be like, that's not a credible source. He could have dropped that there, landed it lied whatever. Man, it would be tough to try to figure this out using no or knowing that folks who don't know as much as you do now because we've progressed and we have better technology kind of

just went through and dug up some bones. And you got to take that into account when you're trying to draw conclusion from all this, like likes another detective has already ramsized trying to figure out but what And just to clarify the whole conversation, Meltzer the it was long time ago established that this site was legitimate in when those guys were like this, I mean, the leading archaeologists in North America came and said this is legit. There's

no way to argue this. This is real. Humans killed bison antiquolis before absolutely, so that was never in question. When Meltzer went back. Meltzer went back to discover a whole lot of other questions that they had. Okay, so that was never in question. But um, and there's a oh man, A bunch of Meltzer's textbook is about all

the drama with that. And it was really informative because you see, it's good, like archaeology is highly scrutinized, Like they don't just you just just roll up and find a point and be like, yeah, we've been here for three or tho years and then everybody believes like highly scrutinized. But what it was interesting to me is that it was clear that it was highly influenced by human ego. I mean, he wrote about it. He he was like this guy, didn't like this guy, and he was trying

to discredit it for no good reason. And so there's that going on, like these leading archaeologists, you know, like trying to discredit someone because they didn't find it or so there was some of that going on, but this was so clear cut that like every the leading archaeologist at the time, I can't remember his last name, maybe

it's Brown. Within a week of him being at fulsome he went out and he actually took the one of the big full points and he was a big enough wig that he was able to just say, I'm taking that with me, and he took it to all his lectures and he said, man has been in North America for ten thousand that one. And when he said that, it was like, no one was gonna argue with this guy. But it was groundbreaking shattered. And what I'm gonna talk about in podcast number three is it shattered people's idea

of life on planet Earth. Yeah. I mean, like we thought humans had been in North America for three thousand years and all of a sudden, we've been here for ten thousand. It kind of like destabilized people. So when you showed up to this site, you know some places that you show up with historical significance or or what have you, You just like there's an aura about it. You like get chills. It's it's kind of just like an experience to be there. It was falsome that way

for you. It was really neat being there. I can't say that, uh, I mean it was kind of an academic experience in some ways, just uh, just going there and seeing it and trying to understand what happened, and then being there with the experts and stuff. But I'd be lying if I said it was it. It was totally like that for me. Now when I come back and I really study it and kind of put it together afterwards, it is. I wouldn't say that. When I

was there it was like that. But when I asked him about that the other day we were driving in the truck, he was like, it looked like that, pointed out the window. He said, it could be. It doesn't look the same. It's not the way it was. So that's true, it doesn't. It's it does not look like a box canyon anymore. Yeah, it just I mean, it just it looks like a it looks like a drainage, and drainage I mean like like probably like ten foot

down if you're standing in the bottom of it. The stream bab would be like four or five ft wide, and they're thanks going up this way and this way, and it just kind of it kind of goes up just a little bit and then flattens out. But oh, I imagine like these platole walls and from it was, it was not it was indescript place interesting, but the box canyon. And I don't fully understand how they understood what it looked like that, but they but they did,

and uh yeah, you'd walk right past it. Not well, Eric Sigfried was drawn couple maps like a hundred years before he came up with the Onyx hunt APT. I just didn't know about it, so it would say that again, that joke went right over my head. The on X founder. I was just joking that he had that box canyon mapped out. That was on X joke. Got it. It also makes you wonder what's hiding under completely ordinary places

just all around us totally. I mean that was what that was what I said, how much of planet Earth has been explored by an archaeologist to this detail? You know, very very like that. It's that way. I like it.

I don't want to know everything. I want there to be mystery absolutely well, what what is so hard for us to understand when you look back at human history and like the fulsome people as we define the fulsome people as being defined by this technology of the points that they used, they were around for about a thousand years. The fulsome points were in fashion for a thousand years. That seems like when I say that, does that sound like a long time or a short time? Does it?

Like I'm sitting here I was just thinking about like ten thousand years, that's not even really comprehendible for me. Yes, a thousand years is still like holy like still kind of incomprehendible. So here's my here's my point about how we live in this. We live in the most bizarre human experience of humans that have ever lived on planet Earth. I mean, for a hundred years we've been using fossil fuels and driving trucks and cars, having electricity, having the

technology to be able to have a conversation. This would have been supernatural stuff to a falsome hunter. If we could say there will be people that will listen to this conversation in the future, they would be like, what kind of witch doctor you man? I mean, we live in such a bizarre human experience that we think that we're normal, and that we think that this is normal.

This is not normal to humans at least if we look back at human history and we are so stink and arrogant thinking and I'm talking like as a as a as mankind to think that we know everything, that everything is tame, and that everything is discovered, and that everything is under stood because science, that technology and science has just skyrocketed, you know, it means human knowledge was

on a graph. It would be a J curve, you know, starting about two years ago, and it would have got steeper and steeper and steeper and steeper the last fifty years. And then you hit the Internet and it comes a roller coaster and you yeah, but there's so much we don't know and we'll never know, and there's so much yet to be discovered. I mean, this stuff like this, I think is designed to keep us humble. Yeah. Yeah, they were using that point for a thousand years, and

I'd switch broadheads halfway through seasons something. The reign of the expandable head will be about thirty years. Did you get to hold the falsome point? Yeah, I mean not the ones they found, so that was nothing. I asked Dr Meltzer is like where is all this stuff? Like where are the bison? Where are the falsome points? And they're sca it around, you know. I mean it was a hunt almost a hundred years ago, and things were way different back then when they excavated most of that

stuff out. For instance, this big wig archaeologists just carried a point with him and they found it, as I understand it, they found it in his desk drawer after he died, like whenever he passed away, so like he had just like kept it in his personal collection. And this is like a really incredible point should be in a museum, and he's got it in his desk, you know, and they found it. So they still some of the points are unaccounted for hunt right now, where did you

get that? Dr Meltzer has in his in his textbook. He they have a graphic that shows every single point they found, the front and the back, so they'll be two images the front in the back. And I mean so they documented every single one they found sound and as I understand it, well maybe they don't have documented the ones that were lost. I think they documented sixteen, but they said there was twenty, and so there's four that are still like probably in the wash, you know,

somebody probably washed the stars those old starge units. But so but there are fulsome points, real fulsome points in a lot of places. I mean I couldn't I wouldn't even know where to start to tell you like how many we have, but I mean, for sure thousands and you could find one today. We were at a farm in Nebraska a couple of weeks ago. And the farmer shows Steve Ronell and I his collection and he's got half a fulsome point that he found on his farm

in Nebraska. So I mean it's not it's very uncommon, but at the same time they're around. So when I was at the Fulsome Museum, which if you ever go in that part of the world, you gotta go there. It's really cool. Um it's just like this old time. It's not like you know, it's kind of museum and go in and pick stuff up. Yeah. Yeah. So there's this case of falsome points and I'm like, can I open that? And there he was like sure, And I'm gonna post a post a video at some point of

me holding a falsome point and uh yeah. So they're around my kind of museum. Yeah, yeah, they're around. But we will nerd out on the technology of the falsome point on the fourth episode. You guys do some kinnetic energy testing and stuff. Oh man, I talked to the as my understanding goes, the nation's leading expert on addle addles. He did his PhD on addle addles, and he uh detail on on why they use that, why that technology the falsome point was so good Yeah, it's it's it's

really neat. It's I just again like I'm that one's very interesting to me because I mean, I've I've shot enough critters with you know, a compound bulb ping seventy pounds that you get three inches of penetration when you hit up you know, some bone inside of a white tail. Yeah. Like the fact that these people were hand sharpening rocks, fixing them to a wooden arrow of some sort with

what like cattail fibers or something. I'm just making some and then hawking them presumably out of an addle addle and they were able to kill thousand pound animals that way, a bunch of them. That is insanity to me. Yeah. Thus, I would like a YouTube demonstration with you an a laddle and a fulsome point. That's a good idea. Much.

There's quite a bit more to come. We're only halfway through the series, so there's two more full podcasts, and the things, the things that the guys bring up next time, I think are just as intriguing as this first one was. It's interesting too, is that this isn't the only one we have. I mean, there's other really unique sites. Um, the Clovis site, the Clovis site was basically a similar thing, but it was mammoth kill. So I mean it was the same story, except it wasn't. I mean, it wasn't

the same story. George mcjunking did what I you if George mcjunking had ridden his horse down there and found that too. Boys, there's another one down there about four hundred miles you might want to check it out. I believe it's a mammoth what, George, Well, it's been super fun sharing camp with all you guys. Really has we man for having such a crumby week of deer hunting. We really have had a great time. I hope some of the group text comes out on the media episode

because the people deserve to see it. Well, hey, I hope Rusty wins this contest with a big You kill a big buck tomorrow that beats a dough and a rabbit, thank you. Well, you don't know, is that me and Justin Michel think that that buck might end up on our side of the road tomorrow. Wouldn't be. There's a big old rub rought behind our trees stand and I can see I'm sure he's working that entire I think it was him I mean, how many bucks are gonna

be rubbing on trees that big? That's probably hire. It really is probably him. Now, whether he's there in the evening, I don't know. I hope he comes to you because I don't want to kill him. Well you would love to kill this Well, it's it's Uh, it's been really fun sharing a camp with with Jared and Zach. You know, I've knowing you guys. This first time we really spent much time together. So it's been a pleasure. Yes, it has. I've been I've been looking forward to this hunt all

the year. And even though it's it's been tough hunting. As I said, it's it's going to be a highlight of my fault. Good, no doubt about it. Good resting, keep studying. Man. Oh yeah, I got finals next week, so that's awesome. Here, well, it's a gambling for the morning. Give give us the sixty second spill on how you're gonna kill this buck in the bottom of the night. Okay, So I've made the decision. I'm going to hunt where we wanted this evening in the morning, against my again,

against your advice. Uh, We're gonna slip in there. We'll probably stay in there a couple of hours. We're getting up early and yeah, up at one o'clock. Yeah, and then uh, we'll come back here and we're really gonna think it over really hard. And then we're gonna go back right in the middle of the day and we're gonna look at this spot really hard, and I'm gonna pick me a tree and I'm gonna kill that buck. All right. It sounds like it's pretty simple. It's just

that it's that simple taking us to class. So I've been full drawing twice. If I come to full draw time, fantastic idea. What's that a decoy lowered out of your stand right at dark? You wouldn't want to put a decoy out there throughout the whole day because it would mess up all the doughs. You need all the dos to come by. You. You've got a decoy in the stand, You assemble it in the stand, put an eye hook right through its back, and then about thirty minutes before dark,

you'd lower it to the ground the tree. And when that buck came out, he walked straight to the six point six point and he nudged him. He didn't really get aggressive with him, but he just reached over, and is this not that would work in the white Tail books fifty years from now because of this out of the tree, that will work. And they'll find that they'll find my point up on that mess man. This guy he must have Wow, get driving, drive into the closest past prow and you better go get you a decoy.

The one thing that they'll find ten thousand years from now that will survive is that. But with the jayhook in the back, they're gonna make all kind of cultural assumptions these days are crazy now. The ones that I'm gonna make the nucom lower bill Uh. Decoys, you're gonna have the stone point that you run your rope through that's stuck in the dude there, you better make the you better, you know, fabricate some good stuff to stick that. Yeah,

just a mess with the anthropologist. Thanks to Time, guys,