Ep. 19: Bear Grease [Render] - High Speed Chases, Kindergarten Ricky, and Boone's Death

h F Gear that's fish Hunt Fight Gear. I've been using their products for the last year and I love carrying my gear in a chest rig or my binos and their bino harness. It's easier and more accessible than a backpack and it doesn't get in the way when I'm riding my mule. For a limited time, you can head over to f h F gear dot com forward slash bear Grease and listeners to this year podcast get a discount on purchases for your f h F Gear system and you can see how I build my gear system.

So go to f h F gear dot com forward slash bear Grease for a special code. If you're buying stuff from f h F Gear, check it out fish Hunt Fight f h F Gear. It's kind of a tense moment today with Mr new we bothering you anything like I was playing Candy Crush. He's on the He's on the Grease podcast. He's a little bit overwhelming that for those of us who have alternate jobs in the day, it can kind of dominate your life a little bit.

I love it. I love it as the outsider coming in the Bear Grease is in a full time position. Full time. We do that poorly, so you gotta have your side hustle, like welcome to the Bear Grease Render. Man, I'm very excited about today. I uh, I've got a lot to say. Oh man, I've got a lot to say. Yea, yeah, the dozer. Hey, We've got we've got one person that is back from wherever they came from. We've got one new person on the Bear Grease Render. We've got three

three old hats. We've got three to our left, to my left, Missy newcom Welcome back, Misty, Misty necomes. Birthday today goes special. I love birthdays. You stop having them, there's an issue, So happy birthday too. Misty's left. Maliki Nichols, Hey, did you hear did you hear? You got a shout out on the last render, I didn't. Oh, okay, that means you didn't. That was a test, No, we said, we said, uh, someone was dressed like Maliki Nichols. I

can't remember who it was. You said the stand dude, they were well dressed though that they were well dressed, and they yeah, they like Maliki Nichols. Where you been, man, Man, I've been grinding, just doing what you have to do. Do you want to tell people what you do for a living? Sure? Sure? Like I I worked for education nonprofit UM and so I manage and developed programs for school districts and state leaders. So I'm traveling around the

state and working hard. And you're in Arkansas hunting license holder. I am two years in a row. Two years in a row. It's real good, supporting conservation, conservation warrior. That's a trim, real serious. To your left, the new man in the render in the circle in the arena, Jonathan Webster, Hello, I'm glad to be here. Listen. It's like winning the contest. You just listen to enough episodes and it's like you submit your your applicates. What it felt like when you

got the invite? Listen, it was experience. I looked at my wife and said, it's happening. That's happening. Jonathan is a longtime friend of ours. He and his wife are longtime friends of Missing And Jonathan has been on the Bear Hunting magazine podcast. Yeah man, we went coon, honey and uh we did. We also had a different We've been on a couple episodes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I help give Jonathan an introduct I mean, Jonathan is one of the most intellectually curious people. Oh my gosh, wow,

this is sorry. Hey, y'all just saw something that happened that that defines my life. Like I know why Jonathan is here. It's like, I'm like, Jonathan needs to be here. I have no idea why. He's the most intellectually curious person we know. And I'm like, that's it. I got it right. You see what I'm saying, Like, you're going with your guy? Yeah, I do. And I've found it to be right a lot wrong. Something. I'm putting that

on my resume. You got called out do your left Dr Daniel Route hey Man home run appearance on The Burgers podcast. It was great. Hey, really, i I've listened to it multiple times. Are in the conversation and what you guys wouldn't know, and again the reason for the burglary strangers to go behind the scenes. Dan and I talked for probably thirty six point to five minutes exactly, and we had multiple do overs of certain parts of

the conversation because it was a complex conversation. We and we had these little different pieces and it was stitched together as if it was just I couldn't even tell. I told my wife when I heard it, I was like, he really makes somebody sound smarter than I thought, Dan, Rupe, isn't that It really was the stuff about and and you brought home the point that I wanted to see inside the whole podcast, which was Boone's finger rent on

us where we didn't even know it. So I want to come back to that section because I mean, it was incredible to your left, Brent Reeves, Brent, everybody good to see it, man, it is good to be seen. Thanks for thanks for coming. BRIT's name has been popping up quite a bit in the Canada. I could when I saw it, I could hardly call him Brent. I had to call it. I wanted to calm Velvet as soon as he talked. I just thought, velvet, I have no idea what that guy is talking about. Hey, his

name was white Tail. Would a maker. I'm available to narrate your laugh but he just all right, you gotta get you gotta start a cameo account. You know what that is. I think this is a great idea. I support this. I think it's I think that's what it's called. It's an app where you can have you pay to have people like wish you happy birthday. Yeah. So basically you said up this. I mean, I don't know how it works, but I didn't charge, so you could do.

You could charge. You can charge whatever you wanted. Um, but you know there's like one time for ten million dollars. But it's worth a shot. And they were all retiring everybody. Okay, listen,

I have dramatically overreacted. Okay, y'all remember too ago when I came in with my tail between my legs saying that I had been called out, the whistle had been blown when I told the story of the game warden and our friend Alex was like, Clay, you've lost a lot of credibility because you told the story and you embellished it. Man, I finally listened to the story myself. Man, Okay, nice trial. This reminds me I'm gonna go back to another story in my life that I feel like now

I might have overreacted. Were you in a courtroom at the time. I remember when I was in kindergarten. I wish Gary Nucolm was here. When I was in kindergarten, there was a boy named Ricky, and if anybody wanted to like look him up, I'd like to talk to him. Ricky usually he kindergarten. Ricky never made it to first grade. Ricky like he was just in and out, you know, to our school system. I presumably, I don't know. Ricky

keyed in on the fact that I did not cuss. Yeah, it must have been a rough class I think about it. I mean, do a lot of kidding. I don't know. But he keyed in on it, and he could tell that, like I was very dead set on not ain't bad words. And he started going, hey, Clay, I heard you say a bad word. And I would just be like, no, you did, Ricky, And he tormented me for weeks by saying, I mean I can still see the twinkle in his eye, and I this was a defining moment of my young manhood.

I marched up to Gary nucom after weeks of this, I just took a deep breath. I mean it was vivid. It was like I was like manning up and I said, Dad, if you get a call from my teacher and she says that I said a bad word, it's not true because I didn't. There's a boy in my class name Ricky that that is accusing me of saying bad words and I don't now. And Gary Nuclem just said, thank you for telling me, Son, I really appreciate you telling me,

you know, just bringing this to me. Okay, I feel like, now that I'm in my early forties that perhaps overreacted. Rickey's middle name is Alex Hey. So you remember I told you I had not listened to the Meteor Campfire Stories. So for someone who hadn't caught up on this, I told a story in effort to talk about the Meteor camp Fire Stories audio book that's out right now. I hadn't listened to the story someone. And I might even

reveal who that someone was. I've been hiding their identity because I felt like they had told me, you know, a bad story. Does your eye contact in this room indicate who that person is? No, they're not down here here. So I tell the story on the on the render, and then people are like, Clay, you told the story back. Well, I listened to this worry. Finally, when I was driving the Canada last week, Man, there were just a few

minor details minor. The only thing that I put in there that I can recall from memory of what I said was I said there was a high speed car chase. There was no high speed car chase. Okay, is a little bit. High speed car chases almost every hazards. It would have been an embellishment if I had said the game boarding came up on two wheels and ramps. Okay. So I told the story, I mean very close to that one dramatic high speed he was chasing the guy. He saw the lights, and he saw the guy turned

down the road, and he goes to the road. I presume he was going above the speed limit, Okay. I mean, like, I mean, I doubt he was like, well, I guess I'll just toddle around up here. But I felt like it was a high speed Carson was not, but it was just like that he went to a mud hole. He got out with his flashlight this game boarden and looked in the mud hole. Did not perceive that a vehicle had driven through it. He was like, was coining about five miles. And he said, and it was just

like that. The sociopath who was wanted for attempted homicide was waiting fifty feet away in his car with an oozy sticking out the window, and when he crossed the mud hole, he was gonna shoot the game board. So anyway, I just feel like I've overreacted a little bit. That's all. Hm um, just a few other you feel vindicated. That's it. That's it. That's it. Remember you should finish that story

where I found five dollars, right. Uh, Okay, there's there's a there is a review on iTunes, and the way it started out, it's a five star review, a legitimate five star review. Okay. But he says, and I was, I mean, I'm just gonna be honest. I was a little bit. Uh. I'll let you guys decide what you how you felt like I felt. He said, don't judge a podcast. That's his title, And he says, don't let the cover photo fool you. Clay Nukeam isn't just another

knuckle head on a mule mule exactly. That's my first question to the guy is like, is this a theme? And you know there's some implications to this, just as if anybody who rides a mule is going to be a knucklehead, Like you're like, oh, dude on a mule, probably a knucklehead. Another one of those. Yeah, wait aube I proved a point. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Hey, let me let me tell you something like this. This is interesting. So I'm reading a book. You're reading the

book too, Yeah, it's really good. Don't don't don't tell the name of it in this book. I don't know people who wrote in this book. Well, I can't get into it's gonna be too big of a spoiler alert. But mules have for centuries, if not thousands of years, been a second rate equine animal from a social status because there was a there was a Oh man, can you think I can go into the details? You can? Okay, I didn't know. I have like three pages left, okay, no, anyway,

like so anyway, there's something. But then he goes on to give a ray view. You know, this is very entertaining educational show done professionally and intellectually. Like, but he's like, don't don't let the mule throw you off. Okay, thank you. There there is a social there's there's a descriptor for something that happens when people that are extremely wealthy down dress.

And I heard a podcast one time where if you go into like Macy's in New York and you're looking around at the people in the store and you were trying to make a judgment on their financial status, most likely the person in there that is like a millionaire is like wearing like jogging pants and a T shirt and like flip flops. Probably he's got a mule, That's

what I'm saying. So because the guy that's dressed up real fancy and and there's a there's a term to describe it, and I includes me know, there's a term to describe it basically where you like dress up like so like if someone's like decked out telegraph, probably like they're they're wanting to say to this, these are my people. And the person that doesn't care because they've already been through all that. So when you see somebody riding you can be like, man, this guy is just trying to wait.

Are you making it a blanket statement about all horse riders right now? Well, I don't know. I'm not every horse rider. When you see a guy riding a horse, every horse rider is just trying to be cool. And the guys that are on the mules have already been through that stage and they're just ground out. Good time to stop everyone polarizes. American nation has been polarized again. Okay, um, okay.

There was another guy. Uh, this guy Don wrote me today and he said, uh, he's the one that said he was uncertain if if I was if he was comfortable with with us calling Dan like Dan Danny boy b I'm on, Don, don't listen. Okay, So Don says, just finished the third Boon Boon podcast, best of all three. I've come clear on my position that I indeed hate it when you call him, but listen, I'm glad you guys laughed because it isn't in fact his name or appropriate.

But for no other reason than the jealous tange I get when you say it. It makes me feel like he would like you better. Then says, love what you're doing. Keep with the fantastic work. Referencing the lifestyle that has informed so much of who I am. So don it's like if Dan Boone were alive. Okay, I don't think you'd like you another fool on a Mule's tagline for your podcast, Forget that Things Forgotten. You may not be able to tell it by the way I'm dressed, but uh,

I just got off of the mule. I've been on an adventure this morning. I had to leave. I had to leave early this morning. I'm starting to bait bears and one of my bear baits is in an unaccessible by vehicle location. We can only bait bears on private land in Arkansas, and so um, I took Banjo out for his maiden backwoods voyage and knock your voyage. He

did really good. Um. You will see at some point on my Instagram feed a fucking fit that I happened to capture on video, but we kind of worked through it. And yeah, I just got back from Canada too. I was in Canada. Killed a buck in Canada, didn't kill a bear. It's a good trip, but unfortunate on the bear. It's a beautiful buck. Thank you. I'm so too. How cold was it up there? It's just like here. What do they ride up in Canada? Hierarchy? Good question the moose.

If you could ride a moose, I had tip that put a saddle on it, I can ride it. They broke some of these kinds of velvet. Just I don't want to hear him say put a saddle on it again though, Um Now, Brent you you and images of you on a bulldozer this week? Yes, what were you doing? I was bulldozing, cool man, I was cleaning out. I was over the farm. My budded Jacob, got this dozer and we manage a piece of property and we were enhancing a place to shoot some ducks. This this winter,

big old slew that floods. Uh, just a minimal amount of rain. So normally we'll get water in there and and we'll get we'll get some ducks in there with

two or three good coal fronts come through. So we're cleaning out a spot for the ducks to rest and we'll hunt it, you know, two or three, four, five or six times a year, depending on the mount of ducks, but mainly a place for him to rest and just cleaning out some old getting some food plots ready for some deer, and we got access to do some bow hunting over there taking care of is a case eight fifty? Is that? Is that a horse or mule? In terms

of dosers? What's it's like a goat? Case eight fifty. Now, I'm not sure what the model it was, but the it was built probably some time after the first moon landing, I think hopefully. So it's well, you look good on. I ain't never had any problems with my looks Clay, did you did you feel like invigorate? Okay? And invigoration? And I said, on that thing for about six and a half hours and for the next three days Bailey said, Daddy, you walk funny? I was so sore. Oh gosh, yard

you around? Oh yeah, we did. It's it's pretty rough in there, and we did lots of pushing, put some pushing, some old snags and stuff down, So it was it wasn't the smoothest of of rides. But but yeah, I get a lot of enjoying the time in a Honda Accord. Do you want to hear my desert song? Now? Yes? In the third bird, I gotta be back. We may

come back to it. So number three, number three, Now, I truly am slightly grieved because I'm thinking about the next podcast and it's gonna be great, and nobody is going to be able to guess what it's about because it is off the wall, and so I'm very excited, but but I'm slightly grieved about the Boon Boon series being over. The thing about somebody like Boone is you know, you could have extended this podcast into really as many

series as you've wanted. I mean, there's there's lots of detail, and the things that I guess when you're telling stories, what it boils down to is what stories do you tell and how do you tell them? And so if you were to take all the intel from de Boone's life and then you were to go back and make a checklist of the stories that that we told and the things we touched on, there would be way more things that happened to him that we're not touched on. I mean, like, for instance, I did not even speak

of the Battle of the Blue Licks. We I wanted to hear more about that. Well, did you about Boonsboro? Or is that separate? Okay? The siege of Boonsborough was its own thing and had his men surrender negative, Uh, he was. He was he was at a salt lick. So the siege of Boonsborow and the the surrendering the men at the salt lick were connected because the they had the settlement. It was the first settlement that they had at Boonsboro. They had to go get salt. Salt

was essential to life on the frontier. They had to have all They had to have salt for curing hides. They had to have. I mean like it was a commodity. Yeah, I mean like steak, potato, salt and pepper. So they had the thirty men went out and there's calculations on how much work has to go into boiling. It's salty

Water's a salty spring, is what it was. Basically, they have these big cauldrons and they keep fires going like twenty hours a day and basically evaporate this water and then what's left is salt and they can make like several hundred pounds of salt a day. But it took thirty men. So Boone is out hunting for the men kills the buffalo gets captured by Shawnee. The Shawnee say, we're going to kill all the guys at the lick.

And then Boone says, I'll tell you what, don't do that, and all I will, I will forfeit the men to you. And then they stay in captivity with the Shawnees for four months and then that's when they go back into the whole siege of boone'sbro which you could have done a whole podcast. It was incredible. The Shawnees did a whole fake out treaty thing, and Boone did too. Because Boone and Blackfish were father and son like they actually

acted like that. I mean, black Fish really loved Boone and when when they there was there was a point when they met out in front of the fort. We're just black Fish and just Boon, like there's all these Indians out here, all the people in the fort, they're about to all kill each other. And black Fish walks out and says, I want to see Boone, and so

all the men are covering Boone. Boone walks out, and perhaps they had two or three men with them, but Boone wouldn't go past sixty yards of the fort because he knew that was the accurate range of the guns. So he was like, I'll meet you sixty yards and uh, he walks out there and Blackfish says, why did you leave?

And uh, because Boone had escaped. Big deal. They have this big treaty and the treaty goes wrong, and they actually signed the treaty, and when they were standing up to like shake each other's hands, Boon knew the Native

Americans well enough to tell his men. So there were I think they were out numbered two to one and they were at a big table and they had just signed a treaty and Boone told his men, he said, if they shake your hand in this way, know that we're being set up and they're about to pummel you. And it was the Native American way to shake hands, and where they where you grab grab him by the arm, basically grab his elbow. And Boone knew that if they

did that, it was over. And so they all went and they did that, and as soon as they did that, the Shawnees jerked down the Boon and his men and blah blah bah, everybody started firing. Boone and told all the people at the fort he said, if it goes fist the cuffs out there, just shoot because we're out number two to one. Just shot. If you hit somebody, there's a there's a better chance you're gonna hit one of them than hit us. I didn't like them, Yeah,

if so that there's a whole thing. What I was gonna say, though, was that we never even talked about the Battle of the Blue Licks, which was a later battle that a lot of people say was the most one of the most defining moments of Boone's life, and we never even got into it. Boone's son Israel, was killed at the Blue Licks, and basically they were ambushed by Native Americans after Boone told the army and the leaders, hey,

don't go after we shouldn't. We shouldn't just take after these Indians, and one of the guys, one of the leaders, challenged Boone and called him a coward and then just took off to go after the Indians, and Boone was like, well, okay, here we go. And they fell in and it was like a massive disaster. I mean, like lots of people got killed. I said all that to say what we talked about in the podcast, there's only so much, Dan, What what stood out to you in this third one?

I think for me personally, I was surprised at how emotional I got kind of towards the end of the podcast especially. I think what really I really enjoyed was when the artist came to paint his portrait and the daughter was like, no, no no, no, this is a good thing. And you know, here was this this same man who says if it goes fisticuff, shoot, you know, I mean,

just fearless in every way. And then a painter comes and he's like no, no, no no, I'm not doing that and she's like, no, Dad, it's okay, you know, just really seeing the human side of him and imagining him like getting in that coffin and giving his grandkids a hard time. I think seeing the familiar ol my grandfather was a huge gooper. I mean just a total goof off and that's I could totally imagine him doing something

like that. And I think that really made Daniel Boone for me a person, you know, he and I was like, oh, man, like he was a guy. And the fact that two miles down the road somebody don't even know who was It was just the whole thing, That old little last chapter. I think, like you said, and the you know two weeks ago in the render, like it's gonna really it's gonna really change the way you look at him, and

it really did. Man. That was my favorite part probably of all the stuff we talked about, and in all four hours of documentary on Boon, was that right at the end of his life, you see so much like he he was living in a little cabin behind Jemima's house when and this is what Chester Harding said. So if Alex wants to back check, Chester Harding had no, no, the uh no, because you wonder where these details come from. I mean, the only person there was Chester Harding and Boone.

Did Boone come out and say, yeah, I was roasting a deer leg when Chester got here. He may have, but I mean, just these little details show us so much. I mean, imagine eighty It's unclear to me how old Boone was. I want to say it was in the last year of his life. And so you know, presumably he was like eighty six years old. Um, and he's back there roasting a deer leg by himself on a ramrod that you know he probably shot the deer. I mean,

you got why would you think otherwise? But that was the part that I mean, I have to piggyback on what he has already been said. That was gonna happen. That is the back What resonated with me so much is like Steve said, he didn't go do the Wild Bill Hiccock Wild Western when he easily could have. He could have been a He died a poor man, and he could have been a very wealthy man just by speaking engagements, going here and telling that, but and and

telling his story. But he lived in a little cabin in the woods, and he took solace by playing with his kids and his grandkids. And I have been There's no way. I mean, this guy has done so much and seen so much and been so many places. But I get it. I know why he's like that. Jonathan sesmithon while to Go before we started recording, he said, you know, You've probably got some pretty good stories being

undercover officer for all these years. Well, I do. And I've been to some very cool places with you, Clay, and we've seen some really cool stuff. But the better part of my day and the best thing that I can imagine is sitting in the backyard playing with my kids or my grandkids. And that I thought, you know, that's a connection that he and I have. That what when it comes down to it, the most important thing

are those the things that are really important? And this guy, I mean, he was responsible for westward expansion, and yet he would really rather set in the fire and cook a deer leg on his ramrod. You know that that was that spoke volumes to you know, I think we this is part of the mythology of Boone is that we can cherry pick from his life these grand moments, and that's kind of what we want to talk about. But man, the Boone went through the meat grinding in life.

He lost two of his sons. I mean, even think about, like we don't know if if the illegitimacy of Jemima was true, but think about a husband that would have come home and been like, oh, we're doing that well. And then maybe he had a Shawnee wife too. I mean, that's distress inside of a home. Whatever time period to say he had, you know, his first years in Kentucky. Imagine being a poor guy today, just scrapping by and being able to go somewhere and earn a significant year's wage.

Let's say that, And it depends on what part of the country you're in, but like in Arkansas, let's say that would be like eighty grand, like if you could go in a couple of months make eighty thou dollars and bring it home and like you're used to making like thirty five on the way home. Ye, somebody stops

you and goes, hey, bro, we'll be taking that. The number of times that you mentioned him getting robbed or losing his stuff was astonishing, Like that's kind of stuff that you just feel like would leave a mark on you as a person. Now, like I got robbed one time and I'll never forget it. And it's like he got drugged and robbed and he got his The number of times that you mentioned, it's like, man, and it wasn't that many people running around. Yeah, he was constantly.

He had lots and lots of failures. Just think think too though, at the end of his life, just kind of what you said, Brent, he kind of he wasn't interested in fame and glory at that point. He had sifted through all that stuff and yet still he was pleasant. Many people noted that his presence was quote coveted by his family and his older age, so that that speaks of a man in good standing. A lot of sacrifice that went through for them. But think about all the

different outcomes. Though, when you're in your eighties and you've been through that kind of life, you could be a real jay hole. Yeah, or your family he could hate you, yes, for leading them in different directions. I mean, think about the tragedies that easily his family could have blamed him for. Yeah, yeah, seriously, so that it seems like normal. Well, of course, if your grandpa's Daniel Boone, you're gonna like him. No. I mean, lots of life breaks people down, and at his old age,

what we saw was an intact man, you know. And to me, it goes back to kind of the point of Robert Morgan's book is that Boone was not just a superhero or mythical American character. He actually had character, not without flaws, but he had character. And that that that, Yeah, the Chester Harding thing blows my mind, like that within two miles of where Boone lives, they the man didn't even know who he was. It was just like, yeah, that white haired guy, yeah, Daniel Boone. Yeah sure, whatever,

Wild Jonathan, what what stood out to you? I think this episode painted more complex picture of him than the other episodes, and I was really interested in the paradox is that you guys mentioned the number of paradoxes. Like, I thought it was very interesting that he would be a market hunter in that trip where he killed a hundred fifty bears, and yet he's seeing game be reduced and seeing that it's unsustainable, and it's like, what makes

a man do that? I think you've made a comment or maybe Robert Morgan made a comment about you know, in retrospect, we could probably see that it's a paradox, but maybe he didn't see it himself. And I just think that that's it. It just paints a very complex picture. It makes you want to know what kind of a man he was, even though you get this picture of him later in life. It's like, how do you not see this this paradox? How do you how do you

reconcile that? Um? I thought it really painted a complex picture. And uh I can I would defend Boone on that. I mean, and and I'm not saying you're indicting him, but like life moves at slow ocean, I mean in a lot of ways that the cutting edge of time. When you're here, you see things so much different than you see once you're past it. And if you if I could go somewhere today and and there were no rules, no regulations. To kill a hundred and fifty five bears

in one season would be pretty good. Was this idea that like the game was all leaving? Like, I think that was like years down the track from that event? Was that I thought that that was later in life, and I had assumed that was after he was in the legislature where he had pen some legislation about protecting the game. Yeah, well and it it. I don't know the details of exactly when that was, but it was when he was in his sixties though, So you're right.

I think you're right. Yeah, I think you're right though when you say that life moves in slow motion and you don't see these things about yourself sometimes, um man. I that story. Like what I liked about the episode

three was it was kind of like clean up. We had covered all this stuff and then I went through and like Cherry picked a bunch of stuff that I just couldn't talk about Boone without talking about So this guy rolling down the Sandy Big Sandy River in Kentucky and seeing Daniel Boone and his family, that wasn't a life changing moment for Boone's life but it was just a picture. This guy's in a river, you know, riding down the river, sees the family pulls up on the shore.

It's Dee Boone and Rebecca and two of his daughters and their son in laws there in half faced camps, which I assumed that means a three sided log structure. They're eating out of a common tray, which would just be a big tray. Basically, they chunked the big thing of meat down and bread bear camp kind do the newcombs from every every now and they had carved for because that a cane, And it's just it's just pretty wild.

Do you think, like when we look back on the paradox Jonathan and it's like, how could he how could he kill that many bear but also passed that legislation. I mean, he passed legislation, obviously recognized there as a problem. But I look back on somebody like Daniel Boone and I want them to take a stand on the right things. But I divorce I usually divorce him in my mind from yeah, at sixty, he was still a man with the family and bear Greece was how many dollars a gallon?

And he needed like he had so It's like, yes, he recognizes that these things are bad and I and we need to do something about that, But at the same time, I gotta take care of my family. You know, go ahead. I think the economic term for that is the tragedy of the commons, right, And I wonder how much of that was playing in his mind, which is I've got to like if I don't if I don't take these bear, then we lose out and it helps no one because the West is going to get expanded in.

There was there was no thought of that, like the the the the the conservation ethic of the modern North American hunter was not even developed at that point. Those were the formative ideas of of people saying like, maybe we ought to preserve this game. And it wasn't until the late eighteen hundreds when it truly was a crisis and all these animals were getting wiped off the face of the earth that they said, hey, we really gotta

do something. And this, this, this modern North American hunting ethic was built, which is where we give value to older age males to take stress off the females juveniles. And I mean, you hear me talk about it all the time. Essentially the Boone and Crockett Boone and Crockett Club was the one that introduced this idea Teddy Roosevelt and they named the club after Boon. And so I mean to look back and I realized you're not saying this, but to look back at Boon and say, oh, man,

you're unethical. You're an unethical hunter. It's really just not realistic, you know. I mean for him to be like, you know what, we're gonna conserve these bears. I will only shoot the oldest bears that I see. Like that just wasn't a thought. That would essentially be like someone saying, you know what, we ought to use the computer rather than send this through the mail, and they're like, well, uh, never work there. There are no such thing as computers

here two years to earlier. Um no, it's probably Malachi. What did you think? Man? Man, It was really hard to start the podcast because let me in here, let me let me explain why. You know, I think that Daniel Boone was was somebody I guess that I grew up with who you hear a lot about, but you don't know much about, right, And this mystical woodsman that you know from my perspective just you know, killed animals, and as I got that's what Yeah, on my street

we ride donkeys, um. But I think, as I like, as I listened to all three and I think everybody has said it, you see the human aspect of him, and you you gain a level of respect that where you where you feel that the the grandeur or the respect or the even the aspect of he's being kind

of put on a pedal stool. Now it's earned because not because of the all that he done, you know, he went to the Cumberland Gap and all these things, but the aspect of him being a man right, taking care of his family, even the aspect of I really liked how he he respected Indians right, even though there

were times of conflict there. There's always like a hat tip in my book when anybody where society deems another group of people as less than, if a person can shows a level of respect that they're equal, And to me, that's that's like a hat tip. Back then, literally they were considered savages. I omitted that word from some of the readings that I did on this podcast. I hadn't told anybody that, yeah, and I mean just to say that,

like he was progressive. Yeah, yeah, And I to me that that gives, that gives, Okay, this guy was the real deal. It's like, man that was, that's a good guy. That's a guy that that gets gets a head nod and a hat tip um, not just because of the conservation things, but because of who the guy was. So my perspective, I think that like what you're saying, Alakai reminds me. Another thing that stuck out to me was when his time in in the legislature was discussed and

he would frequently wear the Shawnee. Yeah, and I think today, you know, of course, like we would rightfully somebody, you know, a white man does that, we're gonna level cultural appropriation on him, Like you don't just put on indigenous garb as a white man and go into Congress. And and maybe that term didn't even exist back then, and maybe there were Native Americans did not have a voice to

kind of levy that critique against him. Uh or maybe he had lived in such a way with them and loved them in such a way where in putting that on, like you said in the podcast, he was acknowledging his roots and they were a part of him and who he was in his roots, and I think that that definitely hit me. It was like, here here's a man who I mean, he obviously had conflict with Native Americans, but there was a deep love and a deep respect

and he allowed it to shape who he was. And I'm not gonna stand up here in the legislature and do my job unless I represent the people who made me Like it wasn't that a wild imagery. I mean, he wasn't. It wasn't a costume party. Like you you almost you could feel like it was a stunt. Yeah, like Boone wearing his buckskins into the legislature. I don't

think it was. I mean, he was making a statement, like he could have gone to town and did what they did, but he was, Like I just think he had no choice but to be true to who he was. He showed, I mean, not to make a joke about. I mean, he chose the mule. Everybody else was wearing those silk shirts really nice. I mean, these are the leading intellectual thinkers of Western development in their time and he shows up in buckskin and that's my president. Man.

That that image is just to me, it's just so And the fact that it wasn't a stunt, because today you could not do that without it being highly inappropriate and offensive and a stunt which could entirely inappropriate, of course, But but the fact that he did it and it wasn't and it was true to who he was. Um, And maybe I have a totally naive view of it, and it was totally a stunt back down, but it seems like it was. I mean, I think he was

aware of the statement that he was making. It would essentially be like, Um, I mean, there's people that have done stuff like that. You know, you see the odd politician from out west walking in whereing his cowboy hat. Didn't one of the guys rode a horse into the White House a few years ago. But here's the thing. When you're adopted, shawnny dad choose the sugarcane and gets it moist in his mouth for you and then hands it to you. And you've lived with him and speak

his language, and you've been in his family. You're not putting on a cowboy hat and riding a horse into the White House. Yeah, you you have become part of their family. And when he comes out before the fort and says, why do you leave? Yeah, I mean, this man lived a totally different way of life, um, and that's why he could do that. And you say that's

I mean, that's the hat tip, you know. Yeah, when he hands you that that already cheered on a piece of cane, that's when you say in Shawnee hard pass whatever that is, I'm like, no thanks, like dad, come no hey. When I again, everything that was in this podcast was things that I hand picked. I mean it really was. And I would tell that story over and

over to black my kids. I mean that stood out to me, and it stood out to Nathan Boone because when Nathan Boone was seventy four years old and his dad had been dead for thirty years, he remembered that Blackfish chewed the lump of sugar and gave it. I mean you can almost just see like the glow and black Fish's eyes to see what he would do, see if he would take it. And what did the bood do? He took it, he ate it. There are only two

people standing there. How do we know that information? Because Dan Boone went home and he told his whole family. He said, Rebecca, don't give me no sugar. I just had some from the chief. No I mean, you try to describe like Boone's relationship with black Fish and the Shawnees in a thousand word article, or you could tell that one story. It's kind of like a picture tells a thousand words. What is it about? Like I think in our day and so many I mean these books.

You have all these books on biographies on Daniel Boone, and it's these stories that I mean, you could just hear you talk about a good storyteller. And I remember like asking you to just tell me a story one more time, Like I just somebody tells a really good story, you want to hear it again. But our culture, we're constantly trying to invent new TV shows and new narratives and new and it's got to be novel. But yet

deep down inside it's like we want that. We want that good old story, Like tell me that story that has meaning and value and and actually, if if it really does, I want to hear it again. And I think that's what's something that I kind of saw in Boone's life over the course of the three that's different from now. It's it's authentic, right. I think what you see now is people telling stories for views, people's telling stories to be validated by somebody else versus just this

is who I am. He didn't, you know, I don't. I don't think Daniel Boone would have if he was in today's age, would have said, they put that on Instagram. Will I take he could have done it, yeah, And I think they could have toured and did that. Yeah.

And I think that's that's something that's powerful when somebody builds their life for the sake of building their lives, versus somebody who tries to reach a point inside their lives so people can validate them, or so people can say what they're building is cool, or what they're building is something that I want to build. And I think

that's a that's a fascinating aspect about about him. I think even in today's culture, you know, media and culture at large finds people who have that aspect of just genuine desire and their own value and tries to make it a product, and unfortunately a lot of people fall

for that. And then you see like people who you discovered quote unquote like early in their career, early in their development, and you really like what they're doing, but then over time they become kind of commercialized and so Daniel. Boone's version of that was the legislature and what did he do? He wore buckskin and he didn't give into that product. Uh yeah, I appreciated that too. At the end, we talked about how Boon didn't buy into the myth

of himself. You know, he there was there was a story and it was it was said that someone told read something to him about him, and he said stuff like that that shouldn't read to a guy until he's dead. I think Boone, in a lot of ways, we probably got Boon wrong in some ways. From a at a personal level, I do not think Boone if he were here today, I think he would shock him that we're

talking about him like we are. I mean, I can't argue with that because I always go back to that thing that there there was a lot of those guys because him surviving every day. I mean, he didn't call that an intervention. That was Tuesday. That's what all those folks were doing. And the good ones got to retire and be a lived to be eighty two or eighty six, however old he was, and the other folks didn't. Yeah, it was like you remember Bob and I dude could

not be able to fire for nothing. No, I don't remember him. Oh, that's right, he's been dead fifty years. He froze to death. I think I think part of Boone's what we see and what I view as humility hard one humility at the end of his life was not him knowing that he was some kind of national hero stud and like choosing to be humble man. The guy was beat down by life, Like I think he would just be like, yeah, I was just kind of

a normal dude. We did some stuff, even say lost. Oh. I think I think he probably had a pretty big sense of some personal failure in his life for sure. That probably instructed him. So this Elizabeth Corvin quote I think at the end that I put in there and talked about how mild he said. She said, the man spoke in effeminine, soft tones, and she said, all the old woodsman that I know, I can't think of one that did not act that way. That really stood out to me big time. And I'll tell you, I'll walk

you through my thought process on it. Boon did all this stuff. Yeah, having that damn you do not use the word if feminine with Dbeth. No, that's why I put it in there because this it makes me think about well, as a hunter, It's like, what am I doing that cause inside of hunting that causes me to not be humble Like he spent his lifetime in the wilderness, and he came out humble like. He came out soft spoken, he came out like not he was not the one wanting to tell all his stories. He was the one

that was quiet. I think sometimes you see the opposite of that, not just in hunting, but in life in other ways, is that people have grand experiences in it it causes them to become more loud, more more, not humble more. They dominate. Well, it just it's just like they believed the myth about themselves and also people's perception of them too. Maybe that didn't know it. You wouldn't think Daniel Boone would have effeminate voice. And I think

about it. Reminded when I listened to that, I listened to I was reminded of a documentary about General Patton, and only reference before that was the old movie George C. Scott played and he had a big voice. He talked like this, and in the in the documentary they talked about that General Patton was not as tall as George C. Scott. And when he answered the phone, he sounded like somebody's grandmother, like General Patton, you know, was what he sounded like.

And I thought, that's not what he sounds like. He sounds just like George C. Scott, General Man. So it's everybody's perception of him, you know that you wouldn't you wouldn't think it would be that way, and that it was another thing that humanized him to me. Well, what it made me think about on a personal level is that, like our exploits, what we do should make us humble. Yeah, it shouldn't puff us up. You want the guy at the end to be the same as the guy at

the beginning. You don't want And I think that's kind of what Jonathan was talking about. Like you hear these early stories of him, and then you hear these stories of conquests and things like that, But at the end he's cooking a deer over a fire with his kids and his grandkids, and it's there's something real noble about that, right, There's There were many stories of his old age that I couldn't include. One person noted that when he heard people come to the house, he would drift off away

into the woods and into his cabin. Like in his old age, he was kind of done with like because people it was insinuated that people would come by to want to just talk to him, want to hear the stories, and he just was kind of like, ah, forget the story. And the thing is, he could be a he could be a big talker. He could talk like a chief. You know. I think that's that. There was the court martial where he defended himself and won over the judges

and actually got a promotion. I mean, clearly, it's kind of like another paradox inside the man. I mean, he could be this larger than life talker, but at the end of his life that wasn't who who he was. Well he was, yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up, because you know, he he was a good storyteller, he was a leader. There was a magnetism to him. So he was charismatic, but it was an authentic kind of charismatic.

Um it had to have been, you know, he could he he had a wide range of functionality as a human and he wouldn't be quiet, but he also knew when to speak. That's what it seems like I think he referenced that in the first episode about him when he was young and had that charisma about him just drew people that magnetism. So having it then when he's young, and then a life full of experiences, Yeah, let's see that. MSTI, what was your favorite part? We haven't asked you that. Well.

I think I feel like to describe to explain my my favorite part of the part that stood out just of this whole series. I think that as and we've talked about this as a family and as a person, what we've really sought to do is to build a culture in our home and in our hearts that transcends any regional or national, any type of other identity. What I mean by that is we want, you know, like our our spiritual existence and our spiritual values are the things that got our home, and so that's what we

we tell. We say that to our kids, like, yeah, we like being Hillbillies. We were real comfortable with where we come from and and who we are. But we don't want that to limit us. We don't want our are those things. So I'm real conscious of that. I'm real conscious of when I hear things I think, do I think that way because I'm from Arkansas. Do I think that way because I'm an American? Because I don't want to just think that way. I want I want this higher set of values to guide how I think.

Listen to the Daniel Boone podcast and hearing him talk about hearing like he is as an archetype of American identity, I was kind of struck by there's things in me that are in me because of those stories and I don't even know it. I didn't even recognize it. They're so default. I mean, there's an aspect of, even with intentional building, to know the things that you're you're that define you and to know how your national heritage defines you and how and an intentional effort to not just

build your life that way. I wouldn't have said I would have never told you. Yeah, I would have never said Daniel Boone had a major impact on my life. And yet I love adventure. That is what we set out to do from the very beginning, and I did not have the answers to it. Man. That's the one thing that is true to this podcast is I genuinely had a question. I think I want to answers right on your hands that the question was, I wonder how I've been impacted by Dan Boone and don't even know it.

I mean, I suspected that we were, and I would I would think it's not hard to think that you were right, I mean, but when what was interesting to me was because like I love I enjoy going camping, I enjoy adventure, I enjoy taking the kids out hiking, I like doing I like uh, kind of intensely pursuing things.

And as you were describing Daniel Boone as an American archetype and someone who this is like part of the American identity, I would not have thought that that is something that shaped me just as a as a woman, as a not I mean someone who are pre shapes the outdoors but does not would not have described herself as a woodsman. You know, those are those are not descriptors. So yeah, I see how you could have found that, but I wasn't expecting for me to find that, And

and that's what I found in it. And the this last one, as I was I was driving to the kids to school and listening to and I just thought, man, that is that's kind of crazy, and it's kind of interesting to me how we have those things that shape us, and that shape are that that we don't even realize

like a default person is going to have that. And one of the I you know, we have friends who are from other countries, and they always kind of laugh at us when we talk about for vacation, for relaxation, we're gonna take our kids out in the woods, and you know, they think that's kind of crazy. And I've

always thought that's funny that they think that. But I realized it's Daniel Boone's fingerprints on our lives and and all those guys, you know, those that we think that that's fun, that we think that extra effort is fun,

and and it's I just would not have that. And I thought your section Dan was so good because it it's I mean, you had such firsthand experience with that over China, just seeing that, you know, so in in I've got the book my father Daniel Boone in my hand here, I had some people asked me they wanted more information on the latter part of Dan's life, how active he was, because and and this is this was a story that Nathan told Lyman Drake hashtag lionel Rich

Nate Nate Draper in the fall of eighteen seventeen, late November, my father Daniel Boone. I like how Nathan always says that my father, I know, there's something so appealing to me. They were so regal in the way they spoke. My father, Daniel Boone entered then entering upon his eighty fourth year, started it on a hunting trip with his grandson James Boone, my oldest son. This was before Jesse Boone moved to

the country. They started each with mounted on horseback. Upon leaving Flanders Callaway, they proceeded on and camped the first night on the headwaters of the Share at about thirteen miles from the Callaway house. Okay, let's just stop right there. Dan's eighty four. He just rode a horse thirteen miles. Okay, can barely spend half an hour an old dozer. Hey.

When I first got into mules, part of what I was thinking, long term thinking, was when I'm an old man, I'm gonna have a craft and I'm gonna be able to stay out there longer. When really it was a thought it was like losers can't right, that's right. And then I realized that you gotta be more athletic and strong to ride a stinking mule or horse than it is to walk. I mean, so generally people don't have

the flexibility and strength. And somebody can tell me, you know, about the guy that's ninety and still rides, and there are those people. But generally to mount a horse or an equine animal, it takes a lot of flexibility, a lot of core strengths. So anyway, it's notable that he's eighty four and they've ridden not thirteen miles. Hold on, they rode thirteen miles from the Calais house. Night overtook them sooner than they expected, and they camped rather late

and had not had time to prepare shelter. That night, two inches of snow fell. The snow glare of the fire caused a wild duck to land inside beside the fire. James Boone caught it easily. To his bewilderment, father was exhilarated to be out camping again. He had brought his gun, his kettle, a light axe, provision, and two or three traps.

He seemed to feel himself in his ancient element. After the evening meal, he told stories of the olden time adventures the pair had The duck for breakfast the next morning and continued on their way. The weather had become okay. Eight four year old man just camped on the ground to his snow, just like whatever, and it made him come alive. The pair had the duck for breakfast the next morning continued on the way. The weather had become cold and blustery, so they had to stop to make

a fire for father to warm himself. They went only eight miles that day and stopped the House of Entertainment, a house of entertainment at Camp Branch, a noted camping place for travelers. The next day they went twenty two miles to Lutra Lick. The weather had moderated a little but was still cold, and all but two miles of that day's travel was on exposed prairie. The cold had affected my father's age frame, and he found he could proceed no further since he could not bear the exposure.

He then decided to remain at his granddaughter's Miss Major van Bibbers at Lutra Lick and abandoned the intended hunt. He abandoned the hunt after two plus fourteen plus. Malachi is the only one I trust. Thirty six mile horse ride camping in two inches of snow, and he was like, man, James, sorry, bro, I don't think this is gonna work out. Um No, but incredible. And then I'm gonna read a statement that we have all probably as hunters, made some version of it.

So this is gonna sound really familiar. But this is the author of that familiarity. Do you see what I'm saying? Nathan Boone said this. My father said he was as naturally inclined each fall to go hunting and trapping as the farmer is in spring to set about putting in his cross. That's good. I mean, he was just like even at an old age, Dan was like, let's go, let's go. He never he never lost that fire, and I thought that was notable. And then the day he

had the day before he died. If you remember Nathan described as death. He said, he stood on the porch and he said, man, if I feel good this good, tomorrow, I think I'll ride the horse around the farm. And then he went inside, took a nap, and a fever came on him and he knew that it was his last sickness. He told them that, I mean, it's so wild that we know so much about this guy, I mean down to his very thoughts, right up to his last breath on the earth. Bizarre that we know so

much about this guy. You know, he he felt a pain that he had never felt before. I mean, all of us are pretty young. We hadn't died yet. Immediate take note that if you feel a very strange I mean like he knew he was like this is this is the one when he felt that burning sensation. They refused the medication and he had his family all come around. Man talking to Robert Morgan about death and the nineteen was really moving. Um. I mean he he's an old man himself and he uh, it's just the way that

we deal with death today. It's so bizarre compared to the experiences of most humans that have lived on planet Earth. Yeah. Um, but yeah, wild old d Boone man the dog, the dog. Yeah, this is a good thing. This is a really good not too bad. Good job. Nuke the next one you talk about that's still under reps. It better be good, pal for this to kind of how long can we keep this up? Oh? Man? No? What has been cool about this podcast? And and that's this is what we

do at the renders behind the scenes. This thing's kind of taking a life of its own a lot of ways. You know, like this is not really what we totally planned to do. Did we have a plan. But I think there's significance in looking back at these guys, and you know my closing commentary at the end about American identity, that is something that I am very passionate about, very

passionate about. They're bigger fish to fry on planet Earth than than us maintaining our hunting privileges in this country, right, I mean, and that's kind of what a lot of people that listen to this podcast and me are interested in, is like the preservation of our way of life. But

it's it's so much bigger than that though. It's not just I want my sons to be able to go and hunt a deer so that their heart will beat fast, and so that they can experience what it means to be a woodsman and and and and engage with nature

in that way. What I'm really saying is I want what I want them to have the opportunity to be who I have been and what I have, what I am is deeply connected to this thing, this way of life, and what's happening inside of in our country maybe other places too, is that it's like it's like we're trying they're trying to snuff out this, They're trying to snuff out the woodsman. They're trying to snuff like they're like, this is not a relevant part of our society anymore.

We don't need hunters. And that's happened in lots of different ways, and that's not what this is about. But I mean, essentially, what my appeal was, make a place, a perpetual place at the table of the people who get to decide what American identity is. Leave a chair for us, Leave a chair for us. That's all we ask. Man. There are people in this country that don't care a thing about wild places. That is fine. Their world revolves

around urban life. And I mean the vast majority of this country, I mean lives in very urban places, and they have heroes and they have things that they pound the table for about their way of life, which absolutely has a right. They have a right to put their fingerprint on the American identity. America developed as a melting pot of all these different cultures. We see it. Well, what we're saying is that the woodsman is a legitimate

voice inside today. And my only appeal was, let the woodsman manage the wild places in the wildlife of this country. It's really that simple, because that's the way it works now, that's the way it has worked for the last two hundred years. And to cut to it, just a talking point that is true is there are more big game and thriving big game in North America than any place on the planet. And it's because of the woodsman valued

wild places. They've value the wilderness, they valued that majestic buck, they valued Deeboon, devalued those bears such that he made a cultural imprint on us. And that value today in a highly urbanized world translates into that we have said, hey, there's some places where civilization is not coming, and we're marking these places off, and we're gonna manage the game. If you have a confined area, natural game populations are designed to expand, and they can't expand, so we need

to hunt them a little bit. We're gonna take out ten percent of the population every year through sport hunting. We're gonna train our kids to be woodsman. We're gonna train them to to harvest and process wild game and bring it home and have the most ethically harvested, sustainable, healthy meat rocket fuel on the planet. This is a very valuable thing to society. We're saying, let us keep doing that, and we'll let you keep doing the things

that you're interested in. Skateboards, keep keep riding your horses, will ride our mules, you know. And the thing is, you're not only it's not it's it's that. Plus you're turning out young men and women with integrity and humility and values that are higher than we like to hunt,

you know. Or it makes my heart race. It's just like Daniel Boone, through a hard life of risk and adventure and and real challenges in nature, learned character and in the end he might ironically, even though he kind of embodied the American narrative, I go out and I dominate the wild. Ironically, according to the World standards, he ended the life of poor man little known, but really in terms of character and integrity and love for his family,

he won. Uh. He won big. And that's what And and we want that for our kids, and we want that for a emilies. And you know, I believe that dedication to craft does it's not the only thing that makes you a good human. It's not at all. I mean, like you could be a hunter and be a dirt

ball and love to hunt. That is entirely possible. But when things that take the dedication of a lifetime to master become something that you focus on, you have to have a whole bunch of other stuff in your life built, right, So there's correlations, there's connections. Look, I glanced at Malachi when I said that word, he's our correlation, you know. I think that's a really good point that I kind of was raised with the mindset that if you like,

cobbies were not great, they weren't very productive. They were almost like they're kind of inferior people with hobbies that sort of first of all, we wouldn't call him craft. We call it what you're doing. What you're describing a craft as a craft, we would describe it as you know. Um, So there was almost it was kind of an imbalanced because work and productivity was such a highly valuable thing that that would be the thing. But that's that's really

wrong and imbalanced. And I think that when you want of the real values that we've wanted in part to our kids is not that you're, you know, just always doing stuff for no purpose than than just to have hobbies, but that you build a craft because the craft builds you, and the craft as a tool to actually construct a

whole lot of other things. So we've been real comfortable with our kids really getting into whether it be hunting or our sports or things like that, because we realize that it's in life, it's in the doing, it's in the living where all these other things can be shaped, and we can't compartmentalize and say, well, these things get shaped over here, but not over here. And so I think that's that's a really good point to that you

just made their nuke. I think I think I've heard you talk about that, misty in terms of like I came from more of a background and a childhood of like video games, television and riding my bicycle to work.

I've heard you talk about just the nature of young men specifically, but I'm sure in humanity not limited to young men learning to overcome something versus the current culture which video games is an easy way provides an opportunity for you to feel like you have master to craft or overcome an obstacle, but in reality, you have not. It is a simulated experience and seeing the correlation more deeply of what it takes to build a lifestyle of

mastering and craft or overcoming an obstacle. That's been a transition of my life as well. And I appreciate the things that you guys are saying about. It makes a lot more senses. Yeah. Closing thoughts throw Um David throw was influenced by Daniel Bone and one of my favorite quotes of his was all good things are wild and free. Mm hmm. That's says of love to me velvet pipes with a microp. I love that section so much. Yeah,

very good, very good. Yeah. Dan, that guys like Thorow would look to somebody like Daniel Boone and not Thomas Jefferson, I think, says a Toime. I'm certainly. I'm sure Thomas Jefferson had an impact on j But you know what I mean, that's that's great influence, you know, Jonathan. Closing thoughts. A question is my closing thought? What is the gauntlet? When Daniel Boone was taken captive and he said, listen,

I'll turn over my men. I haven't surrender as long as you promised not to kill us or make us run the gauntlet? What's I don't let me speak for those people on this podcast. No, because you know you're gonna have to run. I wrote a paper in college called the Education Gauntlet. I wish I would find it. They'd probably put it in like New York Times, And

basically it was my assessment of my college education. When I get to the end, there's not a ton of value, but I have just proved that I can take it in the face. For like five years. That was my initial thought of I haven't told you what the gauntlet is yet. There's a build up. Now that I'm older, I realized that that was really formative in my development

was going through college. The gauntlet is when they would line up on they would like have like twenty people facing twenty people and leave like a five foot span and everybody would have clubs and rocks and sticks and dirt, and a guy would have to run through the center,

like you know, and they would just pummel him. I mean, I know it from a football context, but I didn't realize that that was a that was an ancient common I mean, Boon knew it enough that he was like all surrender all these guys as long as you promised not to make them run the Gauntlet. And do you know what old Blackfish did is Blackfish took all the guys and then when they got them back to camp,

they started forming a gauntlet line. And Boone said, you said we weren't gonna have to run the Gauntlet, and he said, Blackfish said, I said they wouldn't have to run the Gauntlet. He said, I never said you wouldn't for real here, I mean really like there there was something cultural but running the Gauntlet that I mean Blackfish like, I think you really loved Boone and but he was just like, bro, I'm sorry, there's no way out. And and Boone made uh a spectacle of them. He ran in.

I can't remember the details. He ran the Gauntlet multiple times in his life. I mean, this is not a movie. This is a man. This would be like me or you sitting here going yeah, man, when when I was down there, they kidnapped me and for four months and ran the Gauntlet and some of the most fierce people in the Gauntlet where the women, they were just like hostile. And what he did is he he faked one way

like he ran and this is why. I remember he faked one way and then turned and smacked over a bunch of women and and it through the whole thing umble and he made it through like with minimal whooping. What's the what was the value? Like if you could get through and not be knocked out somehow? It was? It was it was just what they did to their their captors. So you've done wrong and this is the part of the price you But after he ran it, he was respected. They were like a good job. That

was pretty good man. Closing thoughts, Malachi, Yeah, you know, as you were talking about like having to see at the table, I think and listening to the three podcasts, I think what what comes to mind is the power of articulation and also the power of invitation, of articulating your stories and inviting non quote unquote non woodsman to

partake of that, how powerful that is. And as a non woodsman, I think our response is the power of not assuming and the power of trying trying it because recognizing how much you learn just from not assuming and trying something different, um, how much how much life that brings to you. And I think that's how you can get to see at the table and that's how you open up a seat at the table. So I think those we consider you a pre woodsman. You're not a

non woodsman. You just don't know what you guys Hunter's license two years in a row. Respect all right, Well, hey, no more, no more Boon podcast unless we come back for part two. Dang, and we could always die back in. I'm already researching another character that I'm probably gonna do at some point, Dolly Parton. I would like Dolly Parton on this Burger's podcast. Anybody knows or let her know, bring her to the Render. Yep, she could definitely do

the live music. Yeah, I was disappointed. I thought the Render had live music. Man, I was ready to hear another door. I'm sorry, Yes I do. Let's experience it. It is so good. This will be your last. I knew I was the contest when this time, Mr Really it doesn't like the song It's Missy's birthday, don't play Okay, okay, so listen to this song. This song is a spoof.

It's a spoof. You realize it's a joke. Okay, So it's and if you remember when I got on that dozer that first day and I came back to the render. I've been on the dozer. Everybody was like, play is different, little bit peppy. He'd been intoxicated with power. Okay, do you remember that? So you need to have that in your mind. It's an inside joke, okay. The second thing was it was I made some some we made some commentary about the cat dozer, okay, and we talked about

it being a black cat. Okay, are we ready? We're ready. We're called up. Love you. He was riding a cat dozer on the mountains south of town. He was pushing them trees over and the rocks that tumble down. She was back home, praying that a bore would settle down. Deep down, she knew he'd probably never come back around. Big black cat, don't take my soul away from me. Unbridled power can't change me into the fees like that deesel rumbles, those big pines hit the ground, that sand

rock tumble. That's a girl again. The brown only wanted was the place to settle down in the mountains with a view and a glow and fire on the ground. Big cat, don't take my soul away from me. Unbridled power can't change me into a fees like long Live the Black Pamper in Mesy. He'll take your soul, your body and mine, big black cat, don't take my soul. Ohay from me. I'm sorry, you st dog. That's awesome,

that's amazing. I'll be downloading and on Spotify or wherever you get you balance just right down, No that uh a little bit, A little bit