Ep. 156: BEAR GREASE [RENDER] - The Element Guys

My name is Clay Nukeleman.

This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the place as we explore.

Welcome to the Bear Grease Render. My, oh, my man.

Today is different than probably anything we've ever done. Usually Casey and Tyler we have spoiler alert. Usually we have like six people on the Bear Grease Render. Six people, which is a lot of fun. But you guys are so much fun that there's only three of us here. We can eat enough for six, That's right.

It just means we've got it rendered down to the purity, you know what I mean, Like it's it's.

That's that's good.

Yeah, I have no doubt that you guys could eat enough chips and sausa. Okay, if you don't know, Casey Smith, Tyler Jones of the Element appreciate it.

They are from Texas.

Man, I enjoy watching Casey eat chips and saucy. To me, it's like it's like it's like watching somebody ride a good pleasure horse through an Areno, you know, it's just kind of like a thing of beauty or or or watching a marathon runner, like you know, stride through mile twelfth.

The first time I compared to a marathon runner, I believe ever so makes good sense.

But when when you.

Hammered out on chips and salsa, it's like I feel joy.

So it's the same thing I feel whenever you eat you know, oatmeal or whatever.

No, what is it?

Granola? That's what you eat a lot of.

Yeah.

Yeah, so man, Hey, you know, a man's got a a man's got to stick to his guns on his diet when he travels. That's the one thing I've learned in my traveling over the last decade is, man, if you break, if you break the routine much, you'll you won't have a routine at all.

Yeah, I guarantee you.

You know what when I was with I spent a little bit of time with Will Primos, And what you wouldn't know about Will Primos just from watching him kill elk and call and love turkey hunting, is that he is an extreme man of discipline and wherever he goes, he goes and does his own grocery shopping and eats his own food in camp.

Mmm.

I took note of that. I was like, that takes some dedication because it's hard.

We have to make food for like five people when we go places, so we eat our own food and uh make food for everybody else.

Ten pounds of ground talk on meat, a ponty angelous gallons of salsa.

That's right.

I want to I want to introduce everybody to my guests. This is Casey Smith and Tyler Jones of the Element. The Element is a what telling What's the element? Y'all tell me what the element is.

It's what we're living in man, you know, go for it, mister puns.

So the Element is uh pretty much everything that Tyler and I do and and we've got some help with with Greg and Eric and Michael.

Uh.

We video Oliver Hunts. We have a sort of weekly podcast.

I kind of say that joking, and we we get that out uh pretty much on the week and it's kind of a chronicle of our stories, our hunts and just we try to share.

The knowledge that we accumulate by hunting so much.

You know, we try to not be We're not experts at things, and you know, I feel like it's it's pretty uh, I don't know, it's it's.

Not a good thing to can consider yourself an expert of anything.

But I like to say we have a lot of experience, so we try to share what we experience with other people and hopefully we can all learn to be better hunters together through that. So that's that's kind of what the element is.

And it's just I don't know what we are.

We had a video series on media last year called buck Truck, and I think the intro for that is me talking real short and sweet, say, two buddies hopping and pick up travel the country hunting deer, and that is about near what we are mixed in with about I don't know, twenty percent Bible study.

Throughout all that.

It started with fishing, you know, I mean that's what That's what was kind of funny, you know. So we just like doing it all kind of like you man or old Brent Reeves. You know, we just like doing uh, being outdoors and if if there's something to chase or catch or or find, we're we're doing it.

Man.

Yeah, So you guys are colleagues of mine. You work for meat Eater at what you've done for the last year?

Is that about right?

That's right?

Yeah, yeah, close to it. Man. What's what's it been like working for meat Eater? It's uh, it's different, that's for sure. You know.

Actually because y'a already entrepreneurs, y'all. Y'all, y'all had your own business, did all your own stuff, had had this YouTube channel podcast called The Element and travels and hunted and then now you work for now you work for meat Eater.

Well cool. Yeah.

We try to remain just true to who we've always been and that's kind of difficult whenever you have outside influences of things. But then at the same time, it's nice to uh uh be able to collaborate and put together some some good thoughts in some minds and some different experiences around the country and just make sure you can kind of refine what we have been doing.

And that's essentially kind of I mean.

Man, outside of like having a bigger network and you know, quite honestly a boss, like, not a lot has changed for what we do. You know, we still operate this thing essentially how we want to, and uh, you know, just pursue having the most fun we can. Yeah, that's that's legal for you know, a couple of guys to do.

Yeah, well, I think that's That's kind of what I was getting that in a way, is that I feel like, you guys coming into Meetia really hasn't changed a lot of what you want.

And that's what.

They were just to peak, you know, crack the veil back just a little bit. I mean I feel like I feel like that's what meat Eater did for me, as they said, Hey, you be you and do what you do, and do what you're passionate about, but just work for us. And I mean that's an ideal situation, and I feel like that's what's from from outside looking in.

Yeah, for sure, man. I mean that's that's what h That's the same kind of thing we had in discussions is going, you know prior to this, was you know, can we can we continue to just be who we are because that's what we want to be. Man, That's honest, you know, and that's what we want is honesty in what we do and and uh so, well you, I mean, it hasn't changed a whole lot of what we do outside of the fact that I got to really take care of receipts, you know, but uh, you know.

That is the biggest that is the biggest problem with corporate America.

Seats golly yeah.

And it's because it's yours, because you don't like touching them, because the radiation that's that's mine.

You know, like.

Those uh you know those heat print receipts. Man, that's that's what's giving us all melanoma.

That's right.

That's tough.

Every time I like am on on a work trip and like buy a coffee at a gas station and and the person does not give me a receipt, and I go, heyl, could I have a receipt?

I feel like they think that I think that they cheated me.

Yeah, and they're like, oh oh, so you know, there's a lot of personal drama involved in receipts.

Man, guarantee you I almost bought the almost about a drink with cash this morning because I didn't want to have to ask for the receipts.

Oh yeah, dude, Sometimes that's tough. That's tough.

The worst part is, like, well, we all got accustomed to this. You know, I'm speaking to an elder millennial here with Clay Nukumb. But you still follow in the category, right, Like we we were around for the transition of prepay to like just pay at the pump, right, and so like we love pay at the pump for a gas. I like being able to just make a quick stop on the road and just go, you know, like I have a large bladder for a medium sized man, so

You know, it just ain't good.

It sounds like it sounds like a first world problem. But when you travel for a living, I mean it's pretty tough to lose. You're losing ten minutes of your life at a time every you know, every week or every four Yeah.

Man, man, problems, problems, problems.

Well forward to the day when when there's so much surveillance in our country that just like you just go to a gas pump and just like get gas, and it just like knows who you are already, knows your bank account already, and knows where you work for already, and you just like just everything's just all automated.

We're there, man, I just got an email from Ornithology. Ornithology is that you said, Yeah, Cornell Institute. And literally twenty minutes before that, Casey and I were having a big bird conversation with another guy. So, uh, they are already there. They're listening, man, they know. Yeah, I hope you'all know that I was kidding about my surveillance.

Oh I know.

Let me let me go ahead, and just for for people who wouldn't who wouldn't be familiar with you guys, let me just I want to introduce you even further to the bear Grease audience as that, Hey, these guys right here are some serious deer hunting machines.

And I don't throw that kind of stuff around lightly. I really don't.

I mean, I mean, I think I think in a in a in a in a brotherhood, compliments are earned, They're not just guaranteed and.

Uh, I'm just glad you didn't say see a conspiracy theorists, because that's what I thought you were fixing.

I know we're all into that, but no, Casey and Tyler are are are really good hunters, and y'all have really had a lot of success and and the and the proofs and the pudding to what you guys are doing. And I was able to hunt with y'all for a week last year in Arkansas, and uh, it was a really unique experience for me because you guys are crazy, Because you.

Guys are absolutely nuts. No, I.

Tell people all the time. I tell people really. I told somebody this week, I said, Man, I hunted with the Element guys. And I said, we hunted six days, morning and evening, six days. And I said, those guys never sat in the same tree twice. And I and I because we were in a boat, we were we were hunting by a boat. I had kind of just submitted myself to you know, I'm just gonna do this the way these guys do it. My instinct would have

And you guys were like.

No, man, we're we're we're gonna move a bunch and and uh, really, what I feel like you were doing is and probably do a lot of it is capitalize on the first time sits. Yeah, and and when you're traveling around, let let me tell you, guys something about yourself. Okay, let me let me explain y'all to you. Okay, uh that Now, the other thing is is that y'all do

Yeah, I mean it for sure is I think that there's a lot of calculations that may go under the radar when we're hunting with somebody, you know, Like but one thing that I mean, we do we certainly have like a pretty good degree of aggression in our sets and those kind of things, but it also is very dependent upon like what we've got going in the area, you know, because you don't want to if you got one spot that hunts on a north wind in that area.

Got to be partner hunting, yeah, for sure.

And and it's just uh, that's really I mean, there's you know more about this, clay, but I won't want to elaborate, but this foundationally, that's where we are, uh, in kind of what we think and what we believe. So we we don't ever really hardly ever argue about anything too much anymore. I mean, getting getting used to each each other early on, you know, is a thing,

Or you know, is that it.

Gets the point where you're trying to figure out like, hey, this is what I want to where I want to go the worst, But are you.

Avoiding that spot because you know I want to go there? You know? And so you know that you kind of come full circle on the thing.

But uh, I talk about this quite a bit, but I preach against pride all the time. Man, Like you can't have like any level of pride or self I.

Don't want to say self confidence, but like because that's good.

When it comes to hunting, but like self ambition, Yeah, exactly, self ambition.

Right, it was it James three five? And that what it was?

You said something like yeah, James three or.

And so like, if you're doing this thing and your common goal is for everyone to have a great time and hunt deer in and be successful. Like the thing that Tyler and I do that I cherish is that we can look at a spot that we've never been to or that we have either way, and just shoot a bunch of holes in the bottom boat for about five or ten minutes and come out with the best possible plan. And I think it's like key to success force men, Oh for sure. I mean if one person

We're hunting. We're not nature walking, you know what I mean.

So, uh, if you want to shoot a deer, sometimes it's okay to listen to your friend and just be like that was fun. That was fun, you know what I mean. And if you want it a different way next time, you can do it too. But anyway, I just think that it's it's way better, way better thing to have, you know, your buddies helping each other out. It just it makes camp way more fun, man.

Yeah, man, And you gotta have some discernment too and keep good friends and good hunting buddies that you know are gonna make some good decisions for you, or at least, like.

I ain't gonna name any names.

But we we might have a friend somewhere in this world who might not actually have the best advice, but I still listen to him, you know, and hunt with him and hang out. But you kind of got to figure out who you can count on that kind of stuff too. But that doesn't mean you can't count on that individual as a person.

You know that those are two different things, you know. Mm hmm.

Well that's that's a really cool perspective. And I saw that in action with you guys. And and you know, like when I saw y'all had a really good fall this year, and heck, even I just said it, I said, y'all have had a really good fall.

Well, Tyler's killed three deer?

Is that right? Yeah, yep, that's right.

And then and in my mind when I hear one of you have killed a deer, it's like it actually it's it's like you are the same the same person.

Like it's like you got one.

It's weird. It's like a married couple. Man, It's like it's.

A little weird, but you know, yeah it is.

It's a win for us.

So it is man like, uh, you know, there's a there's there's a there's a certain degree of that, and then there's this also this degree where like last year I had a little bit rougher year overall than I normally do. Uh had some things just didn't go away, and uh and you know you feel a little bit like almost like you're not helping the team out like you should or whatever.

You're not doing your part a little bit.

But I know, like it's not on a per deer basis, you know, like Casey's super happy for me when I shoot a buck and vice versa. But uh, you know, you get a couple bucks behind and you're like, oh man, I'm I gotta do something.

It's a good pressure, you know.

It's like it's like Todder and I are playing linebacker for for meat right now, just hunting deer, you know, and like he's up, he's got three sacks this game and I ain't got none, you know what I mean, Actually I got one. Uh, but you know you're just like it's good for everybody when the sacks happened, But I kind of want a few of my own, you know, which it was kind of weird this year too because we went to uh, Nebraska and uh we killed bucks on the same night.

It was awesome.

It's a second year in row on that, which is just it's such a blessing man.

But the deer I shot this, this and this this.

Video be on the media channel. Tyler's is way bigger. It's already on the Element channel right now.

But I almost didn't get to enjoy Tyler's deer as much as I wish I would have because my shot was, uh, like my deer just what didn't how do you say?

The shot wasn't as good as I wanted.

It was lethal and everything was great, but you know, I was like a little bit anxious about that, and it almost took away from the experience because I just would have Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to kill the deer, but I would have loved to just been able to just relish the fact that Tyler killed one of the biggest eight points I've ever seen in my life. You know, like I kind of got to miss out on part of that because I was all concerned about going to finding my.

Deer, so like yeah, I understand. I don't know. It is cool to.

Have that relationship where you can truly just have joy for the other person.

Yeah, there's a lot of teaches you man.

We're learning a lot of things about life really through this man, through this old deer hunt thing.

That we're doing.

Well, maybe y'all could give me some advice because my partner, uh, Brent Reeves is uh I know, he's an undercover agent, double undercover, playing the long game on me. And I tell you what, one of the best friends you could ever have is an undercover wildlife agent.

Yeah.

I mean they're a lot of fun. They're always ready to go, always ready for new ideas. But anyway, uh, you should, Yeah, you could. You could go double.

That's what I mean. I'm not kidding say that. What what do you say? You should join the force and go double agent on him, you know, like a mole.

Okay, this is a joke, but actually the first couple of years that Brent was hanging around, it was my bye. My it was kind of like I had just stepped into an outdoor media platform. And I have always been just paranoid about breaking the law and different things. And I'm serious, I actually I actually thought this guy might be working for the government.

Yeah, well, I think it's just an Arkansas thing. I think that's just the way y'all feel about stuff. You just feel like a little paranoid. Yeah, you know, like it's just this thing that you're born with. It's like, man, I might have already done something wrong. I didn't even know what it was.

Yeah, man, that's it exactly. No.

I mean, you know, we're from from deep western Arkansas there in East Texas, and I kind of got the same thing going. And honestly, it's kind of funny you say that, because if you travel around much deer hunting, state to state regulations are a lot different. Yeah, and so like you might have to have this permit over here, but over here you got to worry about what kind.

Of boots you wear, and you know, who knows what.

And in this state you can tag them when you get to your truck, and in that one, you literally cannot move the deer at all, can't even take a picture with him without tag on. It's like, man, oh you talk about So here's the thing, Tyler and I trust yourselves, or trust each other a whole lot. So I kind of I probably it's gonna come back to buy me, all right. But I've been delving into the practical joking a little bit here lately and incorporating that

Deer hunting that morning and I was headed back into camp afterwards.

He was like, oh, hype about it, you know, Like.

Dude, I killed a bunch of doves yesterday and I went out and I got shot a limit of these prey chickens, and I was like just kind of just going on with it, you know, And I was like, man, that's awesome.

You know, are you gonna be cause we do you know, the social media thing or whatever it's like. And I'd already seen on the story that he posted about it on Instagram, and I said, are you gonna But I didn't tell him that. I said, are you gonna wait? Are you gonna wait to like post that on the fifteenth or like what's your plan? And you know, I didn't come out and say, I'm not sure. There's stuff the season.

You know, we kind of gave him a little just like a little taste of like in this season.

The season had opened on September fifteenth, and I knew that, but it was, you know, the second of October or whatever. So I was in the season, but I started thinking about, oh, that was a fifteenth that was a that's oh that's ten fifteen dude. Oh no, he posted on the story I got him for. He had me for a second, man, and.

Then I was like, I mean I couldn't speak, dude.

I was like, because I'm the same way, dude, like, you can't just you can't just you can't do something wrong, man. I mean, there's how many people out there even listening to this podcast, right now you know, have and cheated the limits a little bit or done something over the years.

He's already trying to get us on the game. Boarst he was. I made a joke about shooting a bear thing it was a hog, And all of a sudden Clay goes into federal agent mode on me.

You know, well, I may be working for Brent.

You might go, that's no Artie Stewart, I mean, this is like legendary bear grease stuff. We did a series called Secret Agent Man, one of our most listened to series of all time, on a secret agent from Ohio named Artie Stewart. One of his biggest, I mean one of his like best moments, best bear grease moments, was he was deep inside of a walleye poaching sting. These guys were fishing walleyes and selling like big money, like selling thousands and thousands of pounds of illegal wallys. Apparently

And he and he says, he says.

You gotta be a bleep and he bleep, game ward not you. I bet you're wearing a wire. And he just confronts RT publicly. RT stands up, drops his pants to his ankles, takes his shirt off, and yells to show that he's not wearing a wire and accuses the other guy being a game warden. Goes, you're the game warden. You're the game warden. Take your clothes off. You bet you're wearing a wire. This is like in a public party. He's got his pants and his ankles, no shirt on.

That's a good trick, that's right, man, for sure.

So was it not suspicious for this ohen to be wearing a cowboy hat?

Man, there's a lot of that.

Ohio Southern Ohio is like, oh, yeah, it's a man, and yeah, there's a it's yea is it in in bounds?

There's that little area of the country there that's like Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana. They don't even know where they're from. They can't tell you which state they're from because it's like they just claim it all, you know, you know, like.

Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hey Stewart, speaking of uh, you got to hunt with on that Arkansas hunt. You got to hunt with a guy you know is Spike h how's that man?

Man?

So we're talking about uh, we're talking about their cameraman, Mike, Mike Stroll Uh Stole Stole.

That's him, that's him.

He.

I mean, I just wondered how because there's a there's a pretty famous cell phone recording of him trying to go up a mud bank.

Uh in the base.

I just wondered how it was walking around the woods with him, you know, if he's sliding all over the.

Bas He impressed me. He impressed me.

That's good.

You know when we when we hunted together.

Any cameraman that I ever hunt with I'm suspicious of from the get go. Not suspicious that I'm just like, hey.

Like would if he's wearing a wire making stripped down or what kind of suspicion.

No, no, no, I got I got nothing to hide. I was cool with him recording everything we said.

Uh.

I was just like, listen up, buddy, you're not gonna mess up my white tail hunt. Okay, you're gonna have to sit there like a like a like a dead bird on a branch, not move, not talk, do your job. No, I'm not a jerk, but I but I am just like I just am a'm like, we'll see how this goes.

And man, he was killer dude.

He he he could sit longer than me, he could stay warmer than me, He talked less than me.

He filmed very well.

He was helpful in uh in the woods scouting hunting. I mean we were just kind of a team, you know. I was asking him what he thought we should be doing. And he was a joy to hunt with.

Great time.

He is, he's got uh he's got to my video, my kills on video this year.

And he does a good job. Man.

He says that you like the nosebleed section of the woods Man, I'd just like to get yourself.

You did have a big I didn't stack a stick.

I didn't realize it until I started hunting. Justin the show a cameraman he said the same thing about me. I just feel like the higher you are, the better chance you're going to get away with uh with scent problems and just them scene.

Oh Clay Knewkeom the scent control master over here, right, that's right, that's right.

Don't don't get me started. Don't get me started.

Hey, I was listening to a podcast and your dad is all about it. Well see, okay, Well that's you don't know the whole story. I mean, the reason I can speak so authoritatively on whitetail scent control products is because I was there at the start. Brother, Yeah, I mean in the mid nineties when they first started coming out with scent shield and scent lock and all that stuff. I mean, we were right there, and my dad was

Like he wouldn't. He wouldn't hunt with you if you didn't do it.

I mean, he's just like I literally he would be like, I will not take you hunting if you or he wouldn't put me. Like the way it would work is when I was a kid was he would have good stands that he had scouted, so you know, I on the weekend go hunt with him, and he'd put me on one of his good stands, you know, and he's like, I mean, it's like we had to do it. So when I became an adult, moved away and really started to learn to bow hunt on my own, I couldn't

So we've gotten the same place. Yeah, yep, we're there, man like. And when you travel as much, that's that's when it really gets tough because you don't have dryers and washers and all the stuff always, and you know, it's just you gotta put gas in your truck because you're out of you know, you've been four hundred.

Miles whether or not you know it. You got to get some gas, you know.

Now, I got a question for you on that front, though. You you you do something we don't. That's a bear hunting, and you're in close a lot of the times on that deal. But a bear's psyche is different than a whitetail, right, Like, they just approach the world differently, and their nose is just like you can probably go on about this more than I can, but their nose is like their window into the world. So do you approach that any differently with bears and you use dear.

Well, it's it's the exact same, I mean, because it actually amplifies the fact that you can't hide from them.

Yeah, like it. To me, what people say.

About scent control products is that maybe it helps a little, And I don't think there's such thing as helping a little. Like if a bear smells a little human or a lot of human, he's going to be he's going to be alarmed. If a doe deer smells a little human or a lot of human, he's she's going to run away.

Clay, Now, when you say a little human, what exactly? Because we have this thing where people say all the time, Oh, I'm a big hunter, and you're like, well, how big?

How big a boy are you?

Okay, I walked into one of your one of your inside jokes.

That's what's happened here, Exactly. We have a lot of them.

That's one of things you learned about us too, is how many inside jokes? Oh yeah, that was That was the third thing. Aside from y'all being really good hunters and moving around a lot. It's a lot of inside jokes that nobody gets but y'all. Okay, well now you're you're on the inside.

Man.

That's a good place to be. I am now, yeah, A little human. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it's pretty funny.

I like it.

I wanna start using that.

A little human.

Well, bears.

Bears respond differently to humans sitting different situations, Like if you're baiting them, you are not trying to I mean they are. They're very aware that there's a human involved at this bait side, and so you can get away with human odor with lesser animals to some degree, you know. So there are times like this year, my son was hunting bait and like he said, Dad, the wind was blowing directly to these bears and they just didn't care and they would come in. But those also weren't big

You know, is there a is there a like there's a pretty I guess at least a vocal subset of white tailed deer hunters that, uh don't like the bait thing, you know, is there is that? I feel like that I may be wrong because I'm pretty on the outside here, But does I feel like it doesn't exist as much in the bear world?

Is that right?

What do you mean? Like?

Uh, like, there's not like baiting isn't his taboo in the bear world as it is in the deer world. Sometimes it seems like, Oh.

I don't know, I think it probably is.

I think there's plenty of people that wouldn't like bear hunting over bait or just but you know, we've we've been talking about it for over a decade.

Is that man, bear hunting over baits?

Just it's a management tool that we use in places that we that we that we need it, and it's an incredible way to be selective and manage bears and hunt. And it's just like anything. If you're if you're trying to get an older age male, it's extremely difficult. I mean, you'd you'd be better off, you'd be it'd be easy for you to kill a big buck in this state than it would be to intentionally kill a big bear.

Oh you call.

I didn't realize that, Oh I call one forty real big.

Hey, let me uh let me uh let me switch topics a little bit.

Slightly slightly. There's two things I want to talk to you about.

I want to talk to you all about outdoor media because it's rare that I have another person in media on the Beargerish Render, and but I also want to talk to about the deer stories thing a little bit. Yeah, the I feel like I don't like being an outdoor media Well you said that, you know, like I'm not there with you.

Yeah, let me explain.

Yeah, people people look at us by guys like you, guys that are full time employed inside of production of everything that involves the element, which is it was just a hunting show podcast group. You know, people look at me and they they they think I'm a hunting professional.

I don't. I don't like that, but that's that's just the truth.

There's also been a pretty big stir in the pot of late about this idea that hunting media and hunting influencers is really negative for conservation and hunting.

Have you Are you all aware of that?

Yeah?

I know that's going on.

Yeah, I mean now, I don't I don't know how in tune I am with that, and I don't know how much to what degree the percentage of the population feels that, but there is there is a that is chatter.

If that is out there for sure.

What do you what do y'all think? I mean, like, how do you how do you? I guess in a sense, we're we are all trying to our all of our goal is towards a limited resource, which would be hunting, land.

Access, bigger bucks, white.

Tailed deer, whatever, And you know we are we're promoting hunting and and but also you know, the big thing that that people are saying is that we've commodite.

We we've made hunting.

Uh what's what's the word I'm trying to say, a commodity commodified?

Yeah, yeah, commodity.

It's we have commodified hunting in that we are selling products as a result of our hunting, and that we're recruiting new hunters basically by a new product. Like that's what people say, Well, what do you guys think of that?

I mean, I feel like since you know, beginning of time, people have had commerce. I mean, whether you work at a hardware store or a dairy plant or whatever, you're essentially making an end product.

Selle right.

I mean I don't know, there's probably not a whole lot of if any jobs. And I'm sure somebody will correct me, but like I can't think any off top of my head, that don't end in some sort of sale, right, So I mean.

That's how the world works.

It's either barter or sale and to either acquire something or get rid of something.

So I mean it's not.

It is a very complicated question, like a very big, broad general question too, so I'll try it to be too verbose. But like I I've wanted to do. I've wanted to hunt or fish for a living since I was tiny, man, Like I wanted to be a fishing guide for a while. Well, what does a fishing guide do?

Well?

He sells fishing trips, you know, and probably sells you know, g Loomis rods or whatever too along the way, when you know, they give him free rods and his client's fish with them all day or whatever. So I mean there's just I mean I could do that, or I have a pretty good degree. I could have gone to Dallas and worked for a company that you know sells wealthy people financial advising plans or whatever, you know, like whatever it might have been. But I mean, you gotta

To to hunt so much.

I can't I can actually I can remember one of the first days after uh we started working for Meat Eater, and me and k C were walking around and the guys are with us, and we're walking around in the woods, uh trying to shoot a pig spot and stalk down in just our home, you know, woods, just in the river bottoms, And I like, it was like Tuesday, and I told Case, I was like, I can't believe.

It's kind of the first time.

I've been striving to do something as an entrepreneur for a long time and been we lived very poor for a long time, and I can't believe him walking around in the woods right now hunting pigs, and like, that's kind of my job, you know. It's like it's it doesn't even It's never felt like I could tell somebody honestly, like that's what I do for a living, and all of a sudden it changed, you know what I mean.

Yeah, so there's like a right way and wrong way of doing it.

Just with about you hear, anything you're going to do, you know, and and I think that first off, if you're going to set out to do something, you should have the best intentions, uh in what you do.

And and just to.

Uh, if you don't mind me speaking freely on your podcast, you know, Tyler and I our desires to glorify God with what we do, and not everybody believes that, and that's fine. Uh, but like so through our desire with doing that, we're going to do our best, We're going to fail because we're humans.

And that's like the human condition, right, medium sized.

Humans, medium just the medium humans here.

But uh, you know, so like if you set out with that.

Intention, I think that at least through most people besides the ones that are just out to get you, it's perceived as genuine.

And that's what I try to do and stuff, you know.

And and I also am a free market capitalist, so I feel like this stuff is not gonna Like if we are making hunting videos and it's gonna and it still perpetuates.

You know, then it's good.

If it ain't, and if it doesn't, it's gonna cease to exist. And I don't want the government or any entity telling us we can or can't do none of this stuff, uh, just because it you know, it bothers somebody's feelings, you know, honestly, like, if we do our job and portray this stuff in the right way, it's gonna produce two things. It's gonna produce more people who are in supportive hunting, and it's gonna produce a higher

No, No, I mean that's that's what I wanted to hear, because you know, I think I think it's a point of introspection that anybody that's involved in social media, out outdoor media in any way, we have to evaluate why we're doing what we're doing. Yeah, because I think it's important. Motivations are are very important. Motivations are more important in many ways than than anything. It's like, why we're doing

That's overcrowding and all this stuff.

And uh yeah, man, I mean I could, I could go on and on, but but I think it's good to hear stuff like that and consider just like, Okay, are they right?

Like do they have rational arguments that make sense?

Yeah?

And uh or do you know questioning do they? And most of what I've heard to me really doesn't add up. It's like, man, if we just don't talk about our hunting and hide, we we have lost pace with the with the age, and and we will are we will die off and fade away as the trend of modern

It's like, this is just the way this works.

And I like what you said about us putting demand on the system for more access. Now, you know, there's all kind of there's no right answer to anything. I mean, inevitably, popularity and hunting has caused land to be leased that was never leased before. It's causing excess recreational land prices and all this stuff. And it's like, if we hadn't talked about hunting, do you think that would be any different?

And anyway, I just think it's not.

But you know, man, like the sister of pride is envy, and that's the thing that gets a lot of people and a lot of times these these you know, squeaky wheels are in envious of whatever things may be.

You know, we can I'll just allude to things. But there's a great story, the greatest story that was ever told. Right, there was a creator and then there was an impersonator, and that impersonator still works hard every day and it's just furious that it cannot be supreme being right. So like that, you run into that and it's played out again and again and again in so many facets where a lot of the times I'm not saying all the time because like you said, there are some rational arguments

Well, I can say this too. I've been there, man, you know, like and I've been We all know, man, that of the three of us, I'm the worst, you know. So I'm just you know, so I've been there, man, and and and you know we're we also, the three of us believe we shouldn't be grumbling and complaining about stuff, but we do it at times, you know.

And and I.

Think that hopefully if there's a message that could come through this too from me that's just said, everybody could have a little more grace with each other, because man, I mean just you know, there's this think about this, man, when you were when I was eighteen, I thought it'd be so cool to be you know, on TV hunting right, watching some Monster Bucks, you know, being like, man, what if I could go do that, you know, sitting a tree, standing on the edge of them, you know, field wheat,

So and here's I'm going to take this a different direction just to.

Kind of, you know, maybe appease those who got a little outlaw in them, you know, like a lot of us do.

There comes a point note that I'm recording this whole thing. That's right.

I hope you will leave me knowledge y'all come and take it as we say. Here's the deal, man, is I love what we do enough, not the media side of it, but the hunting side of it. And we're talking about how media affects hunting, right. I never want to sabotage what we're doing. I want it to be something that perpetuates until it can't no more. And so like I want my kids, my grandkids, all that to be able to go out and enjoy the outdoors the

Let's go, you.

Know, and I want to be on Clay's podcast as much as possible.

But hear me out, not in the sense of the word that we understand it. But the only difference in poaching and hunting is a law and maybe like a sense of morality in one's own personal ethics, right, but it just stick with me for a second, like suddenly, if they made it illegal to hunt white till deer where I live, like exclusively, if you just cannot hunt them, I don't know if I would be a law abiding citizen.

Clay, I hope you don't get too many messages.

I love to say controversy things.

And it's not because because I desire controversy, it's just who I am.

Well, And I think what you're saying there is something that a lot of people have probably thought about, Yeah, is like where does where does this thing? And we're a long think think goodness that we're a long ways from that. And and if we and I and I feel like if we do our job, and and really I feel like we're part of of a revolution that has, let's go where we're going culminating really a revolution in in the ideology and communication around hunting that that we are.

You know.

I mean it's it's.

Like, uh so that's that's our trajectory, you know, But we also have to, like any rational person, assessment the situation and say, what could happen you know, a generation from now or twenty years from now, or or or you know, what if this happened?

What if that happened?

I mean, I think it's where what you're saying is that there comes a point when this violates almost like civil liberty exactly.

Yeah, there's an infamy say that you can't do this.

There's infamous quote that says that there comes a point in time where reasonable men are driven to do unreasonable things, right, and I don't desire that by any means, So let me make Yeah, and clearly you're not saying, you know, break reasonable game laws that have been set that's right by agencies that are for us, not against us, which is I mean, I believe exclusively true across the board ninety nine percent of the time, you know, And I think that's the way we've got to believe is that

But I mean back to the media thing, you know, if it is, if it is creating more hunters and that kind of thing. I mean, that's what you want, right, You want numbers of people saying, hey, you don't need to take this away.

Yeah. It goes back to the whole like, hey, give more access.

If you have more hunters, you should be generating more dollars with your dollars.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, And and I think if hunting means as much, if hunting really means as much to us as we say that it does, then it's been invaluable inside of our life us wanting to share that with the world makes a lot of sense too. And and and.

As places, you know, it's possible you could go to your public land spot and there'll be more people than there were five years ago there.

That's possible. Yeah, And you hear about that a lot.

But I also hear from a lot of people that are like, man, I hadn't seen anybody where I hunt in years.

I mean I do not not all over the country. I mean, it just matters who you talk to.

And sometimes the squeaky wheel is the one that gets the tension, gets the drama.

There's a lot of great There's a lot of great.

Hunting left and and and in a lot of places. And anyway, I think the more people we have, the better. Yea, there's like I just wanted to ask you guys about that.

Yeah. Sorry, you're like, hey, guys, we're talking about this too much.

But there is a generality of like, hey, if you don't like a certain situation, then work harder to improve your personal situation, you know, And you can go down to just the basis of like public land hunting, right Like, whenever I see, like if I encounter people on public ground, I'm like, not mad at them, I'm mad at myself because I'm like, well, I'm not smart enough. I haven't learned enough lessons to say, hey, there was gonna be a dude there.

You know, I need to go deeper. I need to be smarter. I need to be more cunning in my methods. You know.

So it's like you just gotta, uh, you know, realize that when you're pointing a finger, you got a couple pointing back, you know, like you got to you gotta just work on yourself, because that's the thing you have the most control over.

Yeah.

Man, well I miss on this latest Deer Stories episode. Well, actually on both. So we're right in the middle of a series on deer Stories, which is one of my favorite series we do every year on Bear Grease and But I go around and collect stories from God and it's a lot of fun because it's kind of like

So this is kind of like little hunters.

Can you when you say dog hunting, are you talking about something that is publicly publicly perceived positively or negatively?

Here, Like, well, I'm not following the joke, Casey.

You're not saying that a person goes into the woods in pursuit of a canine, right, You're talking about something.

Where dogs to chase deer.

Oh oh yeah, so yeah, Okay, is that still legal in Arkansas?

Yeah, it is.

It's it's legal in uh multiple states. Yeah, but actually very a very small percentage of hunting land in the US is it legal to pursue white tailed deer with the use of hounds, with the use of dogs, And where I grew up it to this day it's still

And there's reasons for that.

But these guys, when you meet him and talk to them and you really understand the way they think about things, they're as serious about white tails as you guys are.

I mean, they are.

I mean, without question, their energy is just placed in a different way inside of hunting, and and so on. This last series, well, in this series, I've had multiple dog stories and you know what, it's I love I love this so much. I want to just like make t shirts about it and tell everybody. But you know, the dog hunters look at still hunters and think that sometimes think they aren't sportsmanlike. They're like, it's not sportsmanlike to just sneak up on one and thump it in the head.

Well, we usually honk the horn or something warning when we go out, you know.

Yeah, yeah, like Kevin Murphy, like Stephen ellis buddy, my buddy, Kevin Murphy, who when he squirrel hunts, he blows us horn before he turns the dogs loose, just to warn the wildlife.

Here we come. Let him know. I mean, uh.

Stony Edwards, Stoney Edwards had a little part in his last story, and man, it was my fault that it wasn't included. It was a it was actually an editing error. It happens at bear Grease occasionally. It was my fault. I had about a two minute segment in there where he was talking about the way he views sportsmanship and hunting with dogs, and and he was like, man, this is the most primitive way on earth the hunted deer.

I mean, he said, we'd go sit in tree stands if we want to kill a bunch of deer, you know.

And but they, you know, they they love their dogs. They understand deer. Holy cow, you want to learn something about deer and where they go and where they travel.

Put a deer, put put some dogs behind them.

Is that seeing from like the you know, the English fox trials and stuff like that.

You know that if I'm you know a lot, I mean yeah, I mean those go ahead.

Most of the hound traditions in the US. You could trace them back pretty easily, back to our European traditions, you know.

I mean.

They they ran red stag and wild boar, they ran everything with hounds over there. I mean back in those days, hunting meant you had hounds. And so a lot of these families, whether they be bear hunters or deer dog guys have deep, deep roots that go probably without skipping a generation, some of them all the way back to.

To those roots across in Europe.

I mean, no doubt and uh and uh, and that love of hounds and pursuit is still there and I love it. And I mean I'm not a big I don't own deer dogs. I've killed a few deer in front of dogs, but it's like not something I personally am gonna go do all the time. But I am passionate about telling those guys story and letting them tell their story. But with the point of it being because on this last episode there was a dog story by Stony Edwards and then the very last story, which to

Sure, real power. Yeah, yeah, it's I mean functional. We gotta we gotta understand that, you know, they're instead of looking for the differences and said, I'll say it about myself as much as anybody, but a lot of people, including me, at times, like to look for things that are negative or complain about things, right uh casey and I call it the farmer and the Coyote complex, where the farmer if he ever, if he ever actually kills that kyote, he doesn't have anything complain about anymore, So

You know, couldn't my gun wasn't miss fire.

You know, I couldn't get my gun out of my truck quick enough, you know, or whatever. And and uh, I think that's what generally, uh, you know, humanity likes to complain a little bit. You If you were to listen to any popular song, I bet you eighty percent of them are complaining songs, you know, especially in country.

Yeah, And I think that is real.

It's easy to talk about something like this, but to me, where the rubber hits the road and it functionalizes, it's easy for me for us three to sit here and be on our high horse talking about, you know, unification of the hunting community. It's another thing when I go out and this recorder isn't working and I'm talking to my sons and I'm talking to just other people in camps, and it's like I have to have that attitude all

What I'm saying.

I mean, you know, actually take, Yeah, there's a give and take color's pointed out grace too. You know, it's like, hey, those guys didn't have mal intent to mess up your hunt, so you know, like yeah, it's it's it's cool to be frustrated or whatever, you know, but like you shouldn't just want to just you know, bring.

Them harm into what they're doing.

Yeah, you know, I talked on the podcast about traditional use practices, and I I really have a strong belief in inside of hunting, inside of a general conservation plan that is beneficial for the resource, but including traditional use practices as a major a major thing and making loss. I mean, it's like, I think it would be a massive crime if in thirty years from now you couldn't run deer with dogs in the United States.

Yeah, and it's not because I love to do it.

It's a philosophical position.

Yeah, I asked you a question about that.

So, yeah, I come from a traditional use practice culture of a hog dogging.

So it's different than running than deer with dogs.

But you know, you're familiar with it's baying hogs with dogs, and I grew up doing it.

A lot of guys doing it in different ways.

But there's a gruesome nature to some of it, and I would I would definitely this and this kind of ties the media thing together with what you're talking about with with you know, deer dogs and stuff like I would, I for sure would say that there are things that happen when you're running hogs with dogs that doesn't need to make the light of day for most individuals. And I would even go so far as to say that there are publications, whether it be you know, private or commercialized.

Right right, That's a good question. And I don't think there's the right answer. I think guys might just have opinions.

There's there's parts of hunting, just like there's parts of life. There's like parts of your life that you don't want to broadcast to the world. Yep uh, that are that are private, that are ugly.

That so, I mean, I think it just goes back to you talking harshly about my life here claik.

Yeah, yeah, it ain't pretty casey.

We all know it now they so, yeah, do I think they need to be putting a bunch of bay ups and and and stuff on the internet. I'm a little bit undecided, to be honest with you, because I think that I think definitely there's some things that that that shouldn't But should we completely hide that, I don't think.

As we handle that little part of it.

And people do have a big problem with humans being involved in anything like that. Like they can watch a lion like mall and pull the guts out of a living gazelle and it's like not a problem for them, But if they watched a person release a dog that bays a hog, which is not nearly as brutal, you know, they might have problems with it, and so you know,

Society just has to be okay with that.

It needs to trust us inside of that space, because I mean, we could get into all the philosophical elements of like you see a angus beefsteak on the counter at the in the freezer at the grocery store, and it's like brother, that animal lived in a tremendous amount of trauma on it's life.

Yeah, I mean it was. You know, you could talk about all the.

Different things that went into the quality of that animal's life versus the quality of life that.

A deer that we killed had.

And I mean, I you know, we're gonna win that ethical debate that that wild animal had an incredible life until it was taken by a hunter, and so hiding that brutality that happens at times very minimal. Of all the animal kills that I've witnessed in my life, a very a small percentage of them have been like that. And that's just the truth, and it's not the norm.

I'm still working on this theory, but I've got this theory that ground meat is going to be the downfall of the Western world because it's the it's the first transition from the natural state of things that you would eat into something that does not resemble what it came from. You get what I'm saying, like like it, okay, okay, yeah, so like a little bit, a little.

Bit, I grind a lot of deer meat too. Don't get me wrong, I love it.

But like, uh, I'm gonna tell my wife just a little bit, she didn't really like to bite into a hunk of steak. She likes ground meat, she doesn't like bones, and uh I love her to death, you know, and we have two DIFFERENTU.

Pretty you still love her even though that you're a real saint. Yeah. Well, you know, like we have to actually.

Appreciate the differences of us and our wives because we don't want I don't want to actually be married to Tyler with people just think we are close, you know what I mean. Harry legged boys weird me out right.

This is just still this is still in development.

But I kind of feel like the burger patty or the chicken nugget is kind of like that first thing that removes people from the idea that you know, they don't they're not actually taking muscular tissue and breaking it down. It's already done for them. So it's kind of like it's not as real as the original steak.

Are you are you? Are you grinding shaming people? No?

Like I said, I'm right, but I think that maybe people should have to grind their own meat.

Well they do when they chew up a steak. Well, that's true, but I'm saying those people aren't the people who are consuming the ground are aren't you know, doing that?

Like like, here's my here's my full circle moment right here, we're going back to uh kind of the I don't know, at the genesis of this thing. You started to kind of ask us about how the Mediater thing was going, And I think that if there's one huge benefit to working for Mediator, there's there's a couple. But this is this is one of the one of the major benefits is that the balance that you play with in your mind at all times as a guy who's creating hunting

You know what I mean?

So, for instance, with us, you know, early on, uh, we thought, well, we're just gonna put out pretty much everything, and we're gonna be completely transparent and honest with with

Did I do that right?

Should we do it different next time if that happens, you know, if we if we don't get a good, clean kill on a deer, should we not show it? And then you start going, well, if we don't, you know, the income stream that we have at the time starts to fade. If we can't get out you know a video that month or whatever, you know, just I'm just throwing a lot. This is some of this is hypothetical, but it is things that we've dealt with here and there.

Man.

Yeah.

Well, and and that would be probably the the biggest point that this group that would be talking negatively about the influence of social media and hunting television or not that television, but hunting related media. I think that would be there maybe a strong point on on their side is that sometimes that kind of stuff happens.

Yeah, but it does, man, it does.

But you know, people get injuries in football too, no matter how many regulations they put on it, you know. I mean, the world has problems, you know, So we just try to do it to the best of our ability. And and uh, I like I guess at the end of the day, Like what I was saying is just that, Uh, it's nice to be able to have the support from meat Eater to do what we need to do and what's best for the hunting community at all times. It definitely just it's a peace of mind as much as anything for us.

Yeah.

Man, Well, you know, I think I'm the older I get, the more I'm confronted with we will reap the fruit of the decisions that we're making right now. There will come a time when there will be an evaluation on this generation of hunters' lives, just like there's been massive evaluation done on the market hunters. Daniel Boone and Crockett

And and we.

Can look back at all the generations and find faults with the way that they did things.

And one day generations will look back at.

Us and they'll say, what did the people do that started with, you know, the first hunters that encountered social media and YouTube and a global audience.

Like what did they do?

Yeah?

Yeah, well man, And where's the line between what you believe and what is culturally acceptable and pandering to that? You know, Like that's a hard line to draw. What do you you know? Because as you know, Clay, not everybody believes like you.

You know, and and uh, there's.

Probably actually about scent control.

There's a small segment you know or whatever.

But you know, I guess you have to that's a thing you have to understand, try to understand better as we go through this. And it's a it's a frontier right, yeah, what we're at right now.

That's a great point too.

And here's the other deal too, is like we're doing the best we can with the information that we have

Right.

So like if there has to be a scapegoat.

Somebody otherwise, you know, you have to look in the mirror, you know.

And that's that nobody wants to do that, that's right, these gray hairs, man. But you know, it's a essentially it's like what you're saying, Man, there's a lot of variables and we just have to do the best that we know to do.

And that just be what we focus on. Yeah, I think one of.

The there's all kind of there's all kind of bright spots inside of where we're at with wildlife in North America.

I mean, incredible bright spots.

We talked about how we are in the heyday of white tailed deer.

Hunting and that that that doesn't come for me.

I was in at an event with Kip Adams of the National Deer Association, and I mean, basically that's what he said. I mean, when you look at all the factors and the amount of deer, the number of big deer, the amount of access that people have, it's like we're in the heyday of white tailed deer.

Honey.

I mean, I'm I'm I know, like the bigger deer that I've killed in my life at one time was kind of a big deal even regionally to me, and today it's like, kylie, I mean, one hundred and fifty inch deer is just like fairly common. And I'm telling you, twenty five years ago they were not. Yeah, and it's we're in the heyday. There's a lot of really bright spots inside of hunting. There's also a lot of very real existential threats to the long term sustainability of what we do.

And I think that's why we just have to work to show the.

To show the best side of hunting, to have intelligent arguments for the reason we do things that we do, but also tell the story of the culture of hunting and how this is really a part of who we are as Americans is the ability to hunt. And we

You're one of them. Man.

Yeah, Man, we're we're glads that you're leading this ship man, and we were very appreciative to have you as uh it's not just a friend, but also somebody that we get to work with towards the same kind of goals.

Man.

Shoot, man, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I just need to go back hunting with you guys again. Come on, we've been talking about this a little bit.

You got all busy with some interesting stuff you got going on. But I know there's some hate. Just you know, when you get back in December, be jealous. You need to talk to us something.

I'm already jealous. I don't get jealous. I really don't get jealous.

I I'm when I see somebody's success, I'm pumped for him.

Well, what we need you to do?

Do?

Wish I could go hunt with him.

You know, here in Texas, you don't have to put on the wet suit to do swim upon a deer. You actually just wear your Bermutera shorts and go swim up on the deer and shoo find off the water bosks.

You know.

Mm hmm.

Man, we we're gonna close her down here. We've been going for an hour and a half. It's been great. This is longer than most burgers renders. Got sorry about that. Man, long winded guys around here.

He's good.

It's been good.

Good combo, been good combo.

No, I was you saying water Mookasin's I saw a giant rattlesnake that uh while I was deer hunting the other day up in the mountains.

It was pretty cool.

Did you put that on Instagram? I think I saw that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was awesomember. Radlers are so pretty, man, they are, they are, they are.

I've had some good I've had some fun hunts this year, but it's been tough so far. Close us down, where y'all, Where y'all going next? Where y'all headed next?

Man, that's a great question, Clay. It sounds like you're trying to, you know, write me a citation somewhere.

I don't want all these people showing up on our public lands, you know.

That's right.

I got i got some unfinished business up in the North Country. I'm about to go address in a couple of days.

Okay, okay, up in the plane as specific as you'll get, Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, But I mean it's it's just full boor whitetail from here on now. We're gonna pretty much hit about as many states as we can get to, and at some point in time. We're gonna be in your home state here this fall. Looking real forward to that. It's I mean it's a beautiful place, ye yeah, very natural.

Ye.

Well, good luck to you guys man, thanks for being on the Bear Grease Render, and uh, just for everybody out there, if you're looking for some fun stuff, check out all of the Elements YouTube videos.

They have their own YouTube channel.

But they also it's kind of confusing, flights complex and confusing that they also have a series called buck Truck on the Meat Eater YouTube channel, So you can go back and look for the buck Truck and there's like seven episodes, I think, and one of our episodes is on there. The Arkansas Deer Hunt that I did with Casey and Tyler last last year, had a great time.

I wanted them to spell it with a W at the end, but they wouldn't let me. Man, Oh that would have been good.

Yeah. Yeah, that's some.

That's some deep bear grease stuff right. There are a whole series on arsa W.

I know it, man, You know, I appreciate the opportunity to do this. Clay and we h one other thing. If I could just give one more little plug. Here is our podcast. The Element podcast is a good way to keep up with everything and much more detail about

Yeah, And the other cool thing that's going on with meet he or to YouTube is you can watch all of the Meat Eater season twelve episodes. So this is Steve Ranella's Meat Eater, the famed show, in its twelfth season. And I think it's wild that the place, the platform that we're putting that today first is on YouTube. It's wild. It's it's because it's such a it's such it's like such a big platform. So there's still four people are confused.

Check that out and uh.

Yeah, well guys, good luck to y'all.

Thanks, and we're gonna get after it. I hope you have safe travels this year. Man, we'll be talking to you.

I appreciate you. Blake m