Ep 15: Bear Grease [Render] - Mule Kicked, Scandals and Boone Mythology

what it is. Is that what it is? Yeah, that thing's made of titanium super light. But it's a gorgeous looks like a mule, but it's a that's a good bear gun. Hey, welcome to the bear Grease Render. My, oh my, do we ever have a production today? Man? We have uh, we have two new people in the in in the room today at the Global headquarters to new people. And we traditionally introduced the new people at the end too, so like it's like suspenseful of what's

gonna be happening. Land Bridge is cocking the gun now, Okay, welcome to America. First, First of all, Gary Newcomb is not here. Man, it's too bad. He's building. He's building the barn. He's not on a dozer. Oh, man, I got some stories about a dozer and Misty Newcomb was gonna be here. She had to bail for professional reasons, and she was very quickly replaced. That substituted substitution was very quickly substituted. Yes, it makes me wonder who is

the substitutions? I mean, who was it? Who'd you have on speed dial? Well, I'll tell that so to my right, I have Mr Brent Reeves. Brent, good to see you, Thanks, man, I got a new hat. Dr Daniel Rupe good to be here, fantastic to see you. It's good I have dand's got a new bow. Yeah, absolutely wonderful. Is a Matthews I don't I don't actually know what kind of is? What kind is it? B XR Matthews v x are slick, Yeah, smooth, phenomenal, land Bridge spillmaker. Man, guys, let's just give him a

round of applau. You made it on the Bargrease podcast. Everyone, I'm bowing. Yeah, I mean I thought you wanted us to bout it, not just not just on the podcast, but staring the podcast off. Yeah, you came You came in hot, and it was brilliant and that was totally unplanned. I walked in the place where Josh works and just literally stuck a microphone in his face, and that is what came out. Did he know you were recording him? And how often do you record us apart from our knowledge?

If I give you a consent paper to sign just like his chest pocket towards you while he's talking, might be good. Now, Josh came in hot with the song of Daniel Boone, which I really was shocked because I had just dug up that Daniel Boone song just a few days before, and honestly I never saw that that TV show. It was awesome, the Daniel Boone and a role that will astound you. Yes, we're gonna talk about

that more directly to Josh is right? Is a voice that you've heard before coming in hot from the Bear Honey Magazine Global headquarters, Colby Moore head try your voice. Hey, So for people that wouldn't many of you might be familiar with Kolby from my former podcast, the Bear Honey Magazine podcast. Colby works for me at Bear Honey Magazine. Colby is the genius behind Bear Honey magazine. He does

a ton of stuff. He's the wind beneath your wings is the is the wind beneath my wings is Kobe, the man who can give me Colby, sorry, Colby, the man who can get me a bandit hat. That's that's a big ask. We'll talk later. Great to have you, Colby, and then to Kolby's right. Hey, we're gonna call Seth our guest of honor. I woul Okay, this is uh many most of us know Seth from other places, but this is my friend, Seth. Haynes and Seth had a home run performance on the burgers side. It was at

least a solid double. It was it was at least it was a solid double. Yeah, Tony Gwinn double, I'll take them all day long. Yeah. Yeah. No. So Seth a couple of years ago, well maybe not even a couple of years ago, a year ago, told me I ought to get this book on archetypes, branding archetypes. What's the name of the hero and the outlaw? Yeah, people are gonna ask, and so what do I do when smart people tell me what to do? I hope you I do what they said, so what did I do?

I got the book, and Uh, to be honest with you, I didn't finish it. As long as you read the ones that pertain to you, like anything in personality, you're find mine. I wait a minute, I told you to read a book like two years ago, you still ain't read it. I have a question of the nine archetypes, which one corresponds to Clay nucom do the dozer one of the nine archetypes? It's twelve. But we can get that.

We can get somebody, somebody just the clown. It would be interesting to talk about some of the archetypes because then they surprised me. We can do it. But but no, So I started researching Boot. And so you know, I read this Boon Boon by Robert Morgan ten years ago. And you know who told me to read that book. A man that I didn't even know at the time, which was Steve Rinella. It was on one of his

book lists. Yeah, ten twelve years ago. And I got it, and and uh, I read the Boon book and they started talking about Boon as an archetype, which as they began to describe that, I began to recognize Boon holding this place kind of in our culture that was like kind of unusual, just like this, It's like, why is this guy here? And they started talking about archetypes. And then a year ago Seth had me read about archetypes, and then that's why I interviewed Seth, and I think

it's really important to understand. You probably could have poled Burgher's podcast listeners and said what is an archetype, and maybe many of them would have been able to kind of describe it, like I kind of would have known what it meant. But when you really know what they mean. Seth and I were talking the other day, you start to see archetypes all over your life and you see these you see these places and anyway, it's interesting. So

good to have you everyone. You know that I'm probably an archetype to you of something which we can talk about that later. I don't know. So there's like scales of archetypes. Yeah, yeah, totally totally. So, Yeah, it was a good time. I've enjoyed it and I'm glad to be here with all of you archetypes, especially you. Josh singled out, yeah, I don't even know what that, Seth. I did not choose that Seth was the cold open.

That was a surprise to me. That was the one that's the one part of the podcast that I don't put my hands on. I let Phil Taylor do what Phil Taylor does at media always say, and that was riveted when I heard Seth, No, I loved it. And see, that's that's why it's good to have. Like I was expecting, like some gritty fact about Boon, you know, like killing

a bear or something. I heard Seth's boys, and I thought, finally they've replaced Clay with somebody who's my name is Seth as it would be a really boring podcast if I had to do it. Good to have you, Seth. Hey, I've been doing some mule training this week, boys, John of that, I didn't know that. It's just okay, was that on the Instagram page? Yeah, it's on the instagramended reading reading your podcast off No, no, Yeah, I've been doing some mule training. Um, Banjoe okay, you can go

back and like it or something. So ban Joe is uh, he's coming on three years old. Banjoe is iz he's full brother. Oh I didn't know that full brother. So same mayor same Jack Donkey okay, and but they look different, but they both are pretty flashy. They've got color on him. Banjo we had. I got him when he was like nine months old and and honestly he should be trained right now. By by the time Iz he was three

years old. Um, I had written her extensively. You know, so band Joe is not he's not broke yet, but I am. I'm kind of testing. And really it's just been schedule and timing. And I didn't need a mule. I trained Izzy real quick because I needed a mule real quick. If you want to go buy a mule, especially after post COVID mule is big time on post COVID mules. You see a man, you see a man in Arkansas or Missouri driving down the road with a flashy mule in the back of his trailer, he might

as well be driving Ben's. Yeah, the price has gone through the roof. That is why you know, three or four years ago, whenever I trained Izzy pre COVID. Now this will give you some insight into my financial status. I've also said that you can tell him a lot about a man's financial status and his disposable income by his mule trailer. I have a mule trailer so old people don't even know when it was made. I mean like I took it to a trailer place and I was like, what do you think that thing was made?

And he was like, man, I got no idea, and this was like Wooden spokes no. So but back in the day, I needed a good mule. Didn't have the money to pay pre COVID mule prices, so I had to go by a just an unbroke, untrained mule. Got it turned out good, went back to the same guy and got Banjo. Training Banjo now. But I also have you know that ten days ago Saturday, I got kicked the hardest mule kick I've ever been kicked. Happened ten day the day I went to your house. Do you

remember I talked about, man, listen to this. I had to rub Clay's upper thigh. Okay, I was getting banned. I had taken Banjo to another pasture. And he's not very good in the trailer. He's only been the trailer a couple of times. He'll go in and out good though, which is a training feat. He'll go in and out. He was coming. I untied him and was backing him out so I'm on the back of the trailer. His you know, tail and rear end and legs are all

you know right here. I've opened the door. He's backing out. He's dragging his lead rope because I've untied him from the front, and so he gets his back feet on the ground. He drops his front feet on the ground, so his back feet are like five feet away from me. Okay, do you see what I'm saying? Like my feet are even with his front feet. His head still on the trailer, his lead rope is about to drop to the to the floor of the trailer, which has mule dung in it.

So rather than let the rope drag through the mule dung, I reached real fast to grab the rope before it hits the ground in the trailer. I never even saw it happen. My head is this way, and all of a sudden, I just just feel just a whoop, just a bam, And I turned around and ban Joe is just standing there just like he was before. Like I actually don't even have any real evidence that he's the

one that kicks that sucker. I mean, he he must have come up off his front feet turned like this and just given me a bam it but front no, no, it's back foot. I mean, I guess, I don't know. Sure he wasn't the ghost of the Captain. Yeah, because I got here today and I was it was gone. It was Colby's experienced the fierceness it was. I tried to I've tried to describe it. It He hit me right in the center of the thought it was the best place to get cook Bet kicked like it was

the strongest muscle in your body. I think it would be equivalent to like a very strong man just punch in you as hard as he could punch you in the in the thigh. And it because it acted like nothing happened, because I didn't want to give him too much attention. I didn't want to discipline him. It was my fault, and so I just grabbed up the libroke, acted like nothing happened, and just walked him to the deal and then and all it did was just leave a big there's still a big, big hoof shaped bruise

right there on my way. Yeah. So I've been doing a little mule training. Um so it was ban joke repercussions and Okay, here's here's a little bit of feedback. Um, there was a it was it was wild. There was a guy that listened to the Boon series, and that's what we're gonna talk about on this one. This this Burghers podcast is going to be on the Boone series.

On the Boon part one, there was a guy that said, great episode Clay, when the Sun and Nathan Boone speaks about camping on the mouth of Campaign Creek north of of Point Pleasant. He said it brought legitimate cold chills. He said, I had heard about that in college when I lived just a mile or two from there, and I was professing it as truth and being chastised by my hunting buddies, but by golly, the old college professor

that told me that was right. Basically, this guy's listening to this and we're talking about stuff that happened like two miles from where he was, which was that's a

guy's name was Brady. It's pretty cool. That's pretty cool, you know, to I always think about, you know, finding stone points and stuff like that, to think about back a hundred or two hundred or three hundred or thousand years ago and to reminisce and imagine being you know that man standing in that place, how it would have looked different, and how you would have felt as a human interact thing with nature at that point. It's it's, it's, it's, it's.

It is sobering, you know. Yeah, guy, you know two years from now is going to think the same thing when they found that STARFOLM, I wonder, Okay, scandal, it's been a scandal. Yep, locally big scandal. Nope, scandal right here on the Beargrease podcast hurt. Do you all remember when I take accomplices? Ye, yep, I am not for sure, except for all of you were accomplices apart from our knowledge. I think you knew you were being recorded. No, listen,

this is this is legitimate. This guy named Alex So do you remember when I told the story of the game Warden at the Campfire Stories. I was talking about the Meat Eater Story audio book, which is, by the way, on the New York Times best selling list of audio books, right up there with like Matthew McConaughey's Green Lights book. That's how compelling some of these stories are. McCaughey was number one. Hey McConaughey on the render. Alright, alright, no,

I was waiting for that. Yeah, you know, I thank you for doing it. I was not planning to tell a story from the audio book because I hadn't heard it yet. I had not heard the audio book. So I recounted the story of that game warden as I remember it being told, because it was told to me very quickly, just as somebody was like, hey, this audio book, and I said, what kind of story is he like, man,

there's a story about this, a story about that. So Seth, I was advertising for this audio book, saying, hey, you got to check out Meat Eater's new audio book. And I said, there's this one story, and I tell a story. And turns out I was way off. And so this guy named Alex, he did a good job. He uh. And Alex was the tipping point, okay, because I had a couple of other people tell me say it, say like, Clay, you you butchered that story. And I didn't think much

of it, you know, just kind of dang. You know, I wish you hadn't, but I didn't. And this guy, this guy, he was very polite, but he said, Clay, he said, after hearing you tell that story, and then here in the real story, he said, it kind of discredits you, because I wonder how much you embellish other stories into the quick And I responded back to it. He was very nice. He said, I loved the podcast. He said, That's why I'm writing you. He said, I'm

just being honest with and I did. I did, And I wrote him back and and what he thought happened was that I had heard the story and then just told it way bigger full knowing the story. And I explained to him. I was like, man, that was a mistake. I said, I'd actually never even heard the story and I recounted it. So, so what you're saying is that we need a full time fact checker. If you spend much time talking, you better have a fact checker. I'm

pretty sure there's a proverb about that. Oh is there? I blame the dozer this ever since you've been on that dozer, man, and then a hum from that engine will shake some things loose. I I have a song that is the best song ever written about dozes. I'm not gonna sing. I think a lot of people that listen to that would have would have been like what because And so anyway, my deepest apologies, mistake yes, yes, and you owned up to it. Yeah, yeah, next yeah yeah.

He wasn't making a big deal about it. But but when he when he said that, it reduced my credibility. That was like, yeah, I don't I don't want that, because you know, I was thinking about something there there is. I was thinking about this idea of embellishing stories. And

Seth is a storyteller and a writer. I mean, you know, me and somebody else could go do something together and they come back and tell a story, and then I tell the same story and I look at the dude and it it was just like, man, we were on different planets when that happened. If that story is the way you remember it, like, there's something to be said for a good story. I mean I deeply value the truth.

I mean, like always have, always will in in anyway, Sometimes people kind of want to say that somebody that tells good stories is embellishing story anyway. Well, I mean, first of all, that's a very Southern thing, right, I mean we all know Southern storytellers and Southern storytellers are just right now for embellishing a good story. But I think I mean, to your point, stories a lot of times are about perception about history, about how you interpret

the world. I mean, we can all be given a set of facts, but those facts and what we make of them, what we meet. I mean, that's why lawyers exist to tell stories to juries and to take these facts and to help them interpret in ways that are favorable to their client, because everybody sees things differently. Now I'm not arguing from postmodern thought here. I'm just saying

there ways to interpret stories. Man. I always said in thirty years of law enforcement, if you want two different stories to something, get two eye witnesses to the same incident, because you got folks standing right side beside each other, and they tell you the absolute honest truth as they saw it. And it it don't go it don't go together. Man, that's so wild too. And it and it applies to Boone because Boon. So much of what we know about Boon didn't come from Boon. I mean, actually very little

of it did. We have accounts of Boon, like as he wrote letters like like kind of like business transactions. The one interview with Boone that actually is out there was that John Philson interview from the chapter in the book. But Philson, everybody that knew Boone said that Philson took incredible liberty and basically wrote it in this beautiful like if you read that, it's like very like it's not in Boone's voice. And so it's kind of even though Boone himself said every word of it was true, but

it's not in Boone's voice. It's like it's written in a different way. But that's so all these things are second hand that we know about Boone and man, Yeah, that is actually a great example of a story just two people down. Because the guy that told me the story had heard heard the real story. He told it to me, and I'm not blaming him. He told it to me, and I mean I had no intent of remembering the story, and then one story later it's pretty

different from what actually happened. Well, it's like that little telephone game you know in school, where you start the story at at this desk, and by the time he gets to the last kid in the last row, it's nothing even close. Yeah. Yeah, well that just you think about history and how hard it is to track history, especially history as deep as boon and these things. I mean, well, we appreciate his contribution to keep our podcast above board. Yes, he had a couple of other things. Oh yeah, he

did good. This guy Alex, uh, we'll call him the whistleblower. He was, he was. He was getting me the whistle blow because you told everybody's name. Well, I'm not giving his last name. And this is a comment to him. Do you think of training people to send me real harsh criticism? He was, he was. He was pretty worked up. And so was I out using the word poisonous. Man, I'm the one I tell people that, and then when I make the podcast, it was I said poisonous probably

six times. And and partly that was because of those These podcasts are recorded at different times. So when I'm like sitting at my desk, like doing a voiceover and I'm really intentional, I'll do it right. But if I'm out like talking to somebody, I might do it wrong. So he is very right. The correct way to describe a snake that when it bites you, it might hurt you real bad. Is venomous, not poisonous, because you know that said. I did know that because my son Isaac,

who yeah, it loves the outdoors. Uh, he tells me all the time, Dad, that's not a poisonous snake. And I say to him, every snake is poisonous ay from you, like, I don't care. Um okay. Alex also had a small bone to pick with me about al hooting. Basically, he's said he's not a good al hooter, but it's because he, uh, he can't carry a tune, he says. And he just didn't think it was fair that I was casting judgment

on people who couldn't al hoot. And there's two things I want to say, and I said this to him. Number One, I never said that somebody who couldn't al hoot wasn't a good outdoorsman. Emphatically said that over and over in the podcast. All I said was, if you are a good al hooter, there's a real strong probability that you're a good woodsman. That's all I said. Okay, Daniel Boone had a heck of number two. The other thing that I told him was that I basically said

no comment on the al hooton thing. I just it's like, if you can't al hoot, that's your problem. Thanks Alex. That was great. That was great. Yeah, I just did a little housekeeping, that's all. You know. I meant to early on describe we've got a lot of new listeners to the render Seth, and a lot of new people don't understand what the term bear grease means. I still don't understand the whole time. So bear the name bear grease that Seth, would you know? What would you know

about this about bear grease? Well, I mean, just like, why did I name my podcast bargeras well? I kind of know you, so I'm My guess is that guess I wouldn't have. My guess is that because you're a bear hunter. You've been a bear hunter for a long time, and you have preached that bears are good for all kinds of things, for eating and um, you know, you render the grease down, fat down to turn it into grease for other things. My guess would be that there's

some use. Man, I expected more from a rider. Maybe you just like maybe bears you're greasy. It makes that's good. You're you're right, that's that's the surface level you've hit the surface. Bear grease is a metaphor. Okay, So bargrease was at one time a really valuable commodity, both functionally

for cooking, for for all these different things. It was also used as a form of currency today, Seth Haynes, if you asked, if you pulled America and said what is bargrease, you know how many people would even have a reference point for what it is. But yet it's functional use is still very much the same. And so the the tagline of the Burghera's podcast is where we explore things forgotten but relevant, search for insight in unlikely places, and tell the story of Americans who live their lives

close to the land. And so bear grease. Also, Seth, if you will notice this holding the jar burg rease in my hands, folks, and there is about a two inch band of amber clear liquid and then below that is a solid white lick. Would this is bear grease that has separated and at that separation point, Um, many people, including Native Americans, have used that to forecast the weather because it moves with barometric pressure and it's highly nuanced. I mean, I'm not saying that I really can, but

it does change about every day. There's my chart right there. I'm gonna get you on a chart. Um, bear grease weather forecasting charge so insight and unlikely places. So bear grease is a metaphor. Okay, So that's I just want to say that because we're getting new listeners. Bear grease is a metaphor for things forgotten but relevant. That's why I interviewed Roy Clark, That's why I interviewed James Lawrence. That's why we're talking about Daniel Boone. We're looking for

insight and unlikely places. That's why we're talking about how snakes and this innate fear of us of snakes and our mothers telling us not to do it is this like bigger picture of of of how human relationships are supposed to work. Don't pick up that snake and you believe her because the snakes are scary, and you do what she says and you trust her. Um, you know.

It's this bigger, bigger picture insight. So that is and then this is the bear grease render, which is where we so the act of taking solid bear fat like raw bear fat, off of a freshly harvested bear, melting it down into a liquid oil. It's called rendering. How long does the render actually take? In your life? When you're rendering bear grease? You can render bear fat very quickly, like nine minutes. Really, yeah? Yeah, It is all depended

upon temperature. Okay, give me the ten second process. How you do it? You just okay, there's the way. The best practice. I'm not even gonna give you best practice. You take us a filet of white bear fat, which it'll be on a fall bear, I mean could have a lot of fat, cube it up into one inch cubes, put it in a frying pan, a fry daddy, any kind of source of heat. For I never rendered, it's never rendered George's fat. Nope, never rendered fat into George.

And and basically it just melts down. And you'll have about of it that does not melt down, that stays is what we call a crackling. But the other eight percent will turn in the liquid. The best way to do it is to grind it. Grind it and you have you get almost uh Colby, why do we say Colby is my bear? Rendering you get about an if you if you cube it, you get about an eight percent return. If you grind it up, you get about probably ninety five percent return. And slow seems to be

better too from what I hear. You like and the the color of it comes out different depending on how fast you cook it. Yeah, if you if you cook it, if you cook it hot it'll be darker. If you cook it really on low heat like two twenty five, it'll be uh, it'll be much more solid. It'll it'll be lighter. I'm telling you that low even heat of a George Foreman. Boys, and George Foreman grils happen to be one of our partners. We want to thank a caterpillar man. Guys, I'm serious, man, I've got a song.

Oh yeah, hey, um could could Burghers like the Render also be chewing the fat? And it could have been? Because that's another way to rent it. We should have had you on the marketing team when there was a movie and made a Northwest Passage Spencer Tracy. You ever seen that movie? It's old man, it's like and Walter Brennan is in that and the guy that played Dr Welby and that show, Marcus Wellby. He also sold coffees Mr Coffee Anyway, another another use for bagaras Walter Brennan.

Y'all know who Walter Brennon. We're not seventy okay, all right? Well, to the folks out there that are in my age group, which is fifty five and up, I would say is uh he said that he told Robert Young, that was the actor's name, Robert Young, Intendant says, man, what we're gonna do about all these mosquitoes? And Walter brann said, ranched, big Grease, Ranch, big Grease should put it on your arms, and he keeps you all the mosquitoes away. That's Walter

Brennan in selling. I need you to come up with a list of everything pre advant Costello I need to watch. Okay, I'll make you a list. That was a pretty good impression. Then we all know who you're talking about now that you know. Yeah, hey, speaking of what did y'all think about Josh being able to remember that Boon song? I mean that was pretty impressive, right, yeah, yeah, Okay, what y'all don't know yet is Josh is uh well, he's played before on the on the Barrigaryship a little bit,

a little a little bit. But okay, this is the this is the segue into us talking about the Boon podcast. Josh has a little song for us, a little something out of the archives. Yeah, okay, here we go here. Daniel Boone was a man, yes, a big man were then, not like an eagle and as tall as a mountain. Was he that's right. Daniel Boone was a man, yes, a big man. He was bravey, He was foodless and

as tough as a mighty tree. Seeing it brother from the coonskin cap on the top of old and to the heel of his raw jew the ripping, this roaring, his fightingness man the frontier rebonue. Daniel Boone was a man, yes, a begg man, and he fought for America to make all Americans free. What a boon? Was a great sam coming true? Was he? Daniel Boone was a man, yes, a beg man with a whoop and a holler. He can move down the forest of tree. That's right, with

a knife and a gun. He never did fail. There was nothing for the bread, not team the lamb relays, a big white liberty till Histories Hall of Fame. Daniel Boone was a man, yes, a be man. Will the dream Mama country that would always forever be free? What a boone want to do? I want to dream coming true? That's right? What a boone want to do? What a dream coming true? Was he? That is he's no washboard player,

but pretty good. Oh man, that was awesome. That was awesome, So perfect, perfect segue into Yeah, when Josh sank so on the first of the podcast, when Josh sang that song, there were two things. It says Daniel Boone was a was his man, a big man, big, and Daniel Boone was five ft eight and way a hundred and seventy. Well, fess Parker wasn't best. Parker was about six three and he was a big he was a big man. Yeah,

he also wasn't Daniel Boone. And then uh, it says that Daniel Boone wore a coonskin cap, which that was just like total Hollywood come from the well Davy Crockett, as I understand it, as I understand it, did Fest Parker played Davy Crockett too, No wonder so the same Hollywood actor played Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone, the real Davy Crockett. I think war a coon skin cap, Alex, let me know if I'm wrong. And uh, and and then so when Hollywood got ahold of Daniel Boone, I mean,

of course he's gonna wear a coonskin cap. Are you saying that we cannot trust Hollywood? I've never said it, Dan,

because my whole life is based on life. Well that that is so great because this this part one of the series is kind of debunking some of the the myth and presenting that did to the people that there is a lot of Boone's life that is mythologized and is there's there's lots of stories like you read this Boon biography Robert Morgan, and he he every single story there they you know, he tells all the facts and all the potential reasons why it's true, and you know,

he kind of leaves some room for this probably may not have happened, or it may have, but there's a whole lot of that, And um, what's so interesting in Robert Morgan, I feel like he's kind of the main one that introduced this idea though to the world, which is introduced it to us and we say it now like it's fact, is that the real Boon was way cooler than the myth of Boon. I mean, he's one of these guys that didn't need fancy stories told about him, because when you really see what he did and who

he was, it's pretty wild, you know. But the closest modern representation I have of Daniel Boone is Brent Reeves. He would wear he would wear overalls, there's no doubt. Well definitely. Well what here's what I got out of that, especially like when you talk about Mr Morgan's book and I read that the the Daniel Boone that people fictitiously wrote about was girl Stacker every day living. What do you mean he he lived the life that Girl Stacker lived,

the life that people fantasized Daniel Boone did. But who was I think Steven Nellis said, you know he would. They wouldn't the only folks doing that though. You know they talked about dressed in buckskins and you know, well, Daniel Boone dressed in in buckskins was so did his plumber. So the guy throw everybody. But it's took me that the majority of the things that were written about were

about Daniel Boone. They were written about him later on in life, when Gerstacker was writing letters home and the stuff we get from him was written by him. And yet everybody has heard of Daniel Boone, but nobody's ever heard of Gerstacker, and Gerstacker has a stack of facts to back up the stuff that he did. Yeah, yeah, that was It was very interesting too. If you think about Gerstalker, which was from our episode four death of a bear Hunter, a guy that was here in Arkansas.

Seth is that Gerstalker probably came to America, and this is total speculation. He probably came to America because of Boone, like he came in the eighteen thirties, seventeen years after Dan's death, and by that time Dan was famous in Europe, big time famous, and so people would have heard of the Frontier and Daniel Boone and basically Gerstalker came and he never said it, but they all did. They wanted to be like Daniel Boone's shows you. That shows you

the power of an inspirational myth. I mean, if you're saying that all of this and much of this is based in mythology of lore of Daniel Boone, and then people say like, I wanna, I wanna be like that, I want to do I mean, it shows you the inspirational power of myth. And that's the thing that's gone from tim and memorial. People look for these great, big myths to follow, and Boone's in that line. He's the myth.

Yeah yeah, and if he was one of the most talked about and written about, especially all over the world. Who it's a good fact that are a good chance if that's who he was trying to emulate. Yeah, yeah, and and and you know Boone was the real deal. I don't. I don't think you're saying that Boone was he was? Yeah, Dan, what was your what was Did you know much about Boone? If I had stuck the microphone in your face and said, who was Daniel Boone?

Know what was interesting for me is I had watched Actually a UM Who Made American Friends the other day and I was honestly kind of unimpressed with the amount of detail they gave. Well, I did because this is the first however many years. This is kind of the first chapter of Daniel's life. Is what you covered in this first podcast? And that show, from what I remember, kind of covered the middle to the tail in so I didn't know any of of this stuff for these

dynamics UM. So it was it was really interesting. Any any of it stand out to you is cool. Like for an example, when I read this book years ago with no never thought I'd be making a Boon podcast. I mean, I was just reading it totally out of interest. I remembered probably three stories from this book that that I just probably would have never forgotten my whole life, and one of them was Boone's potentially illegitimate daughter. Like

when I talked about Daniel Boone. Now I've done a ton of research since then, but before, like if I just met you on the street randomly, if I walked across your yard and met you and your y'all art Dan, I'd be like, hey, Daniel Boone guy, and I would have said, did you know that he went on a hunting trip one time? For two years? But that story have been embellished, That's the big question. Told the story correctly? Yeah, Yeah, that would have been nice. If no, I'm just I'm

saying there there that stories to that? What stories stood that to you? You know, um, cultural kind of anthropology is my background. So what stood out to me was when the Robert Morgan who who wrote that book, when he talked about the culture of the Indians and if you of of of Native American people and if you were going to dwell with them, there was an expectation that you would dwell in a tent and and probably

have relations with a with one of their women. That was just kind of that was very eye opening to me. And if and if Daniel was a man who seemed adept at understanding culture and interri into groups. So but it creates mentioned in me because I want him to be kind of going off what Seth has been saying, there's this person that I want him to be, and it's not just a frontiersman who you know, conquered and defended America, but it's a man of integrity. I mean,

you're taught. You spend so much time kind of addressing these valid concerns that Alex you know, had, and part of that is because integrity is important, you know. And so when I Daniel Boone fits an archetype for me that I want to emulate and be in some ways, I want him to be a man of integrity. Part of that to me means being faithful to my wife, and so it does. But as a cultural that just

the way I would have said. Man, when Robert brings that up, it's like, oh my goodness, like he could have actually just been when I thought, I know, the look on his face like fighting words. Well, listen, what's wild is that there's accounts. Okay, one time Boone, when he was at his home with Rebecca, the neighbor's husband had gone off somewhere and they were they they ran out of food, and there's a story of Boone going to their house and giving him food. When the man

comes home, the woman says, Daniel Boone came by. He gave us some food. And the man comes and confronts Daniel Boone. And this is a story that we believe to be true. And and Dan, and the guy basically accuses Dan of flirting with his wife. Dan will have no part of it and whips him. I mean, like Dan, Dan Boone would fistfight you as about as quick as I mean he was. He wasn't hot tempered, he was he was a Quaker, but there are multiple accounts of

him just flat whooping somebody. And he whooped his neighbor who accused him of flirting with his wife and friends. You feel like I know the guy, man, I don't know. He no, you know. That's a great point that and yeah, and there it's not we don't know that Boone had a He could add too. He lived with the Shawnees, And we'll get into this probably in episode two. Maybe

we may go further than two episodes. I don't know, but he he lived with a Shawnee and was actually adopted as a Shawnee Indian for four He lived with him for four months, and Shawnee's visited him in Missouri when he was an old man, like he had like real friendship with these people. You got to take into account to that. You know that it wasn't a situation of when in Rome do as the Romans due. He was in a situation where where that was the culture. Yeah, if if any of that was true, he was having

to live every day. You know, these folks wasn't getting up and worrying about what they were going to do next week. They were worrying about how are we going to make it through today and tonight and then tomorrow. And if he's got to go along with whatever culture is there, I mean, let's see, that's a problem though. Yeah, that's a problem. It's a big problem. I mean, I mean, and and I'm and you can make bold declarations on this side of history. When that doesn't I will never

in my life be in this situation. I would have just said go ahead and kill me. Boys. My value system is more important than that. I mean, I'm being honest. I think I would say that. Now I realized that it's real easy to be like bold and have this valor, but like, that's that's what I would want to say. You would too, Dan, absolutely, But then you you you

have to ask yourself is that armchair valor? And yeah, you know, and I had I felt like I had to say just because it's like, because if we say, well, if you're in this culture and you just do what that culture does, then you just have this really loose value system. It's not necessarily a valid reason, or it's not a valid reason at all. But you just gotta put yourself in that or you can't put you you

can't put yourself in that spot. You can't put yourself in as you call him, Dan's spot, because maybe they wouldn't have killed him. I mean, like the worst case scenario in that situation is they would have been like okay, I mean they would have found a reason to have killed you, which is very probable. Um, But anyway, I'm I'm I'm not suggesting that anybody who wouldn't, you know,

partake of that would have been immediately killed. It wasn't like that, but it was if you valued your life, you stayed on their good side, if you were their captive and I think there's two. You got a group of people who you know there, it's in all likelihood it's gonna they're they're forming identity in in terms of interdependence. And so you've got insiders and outsiders, and that's discerned

by very practical, tangible behaviors. If you're an insider, you do like we do, and and and and and Mr Morgan said, you know, if if you didn't engage in that kind of activity as a guest, it was like, you're too good for us. You're an outsider. And so it it does make you think. I mean, it was in a cop that's a complex. It is for real, um man. I don't want to gloss over that. Robert Morgan,

both of my guests on this podcast. I was explaining this to somebody, and I was like, if you were just think of the biggest media company in America, if you were X, and they said we're commissioning you to get the top. You know, Boon and I'm not saying that are the s Boone expert. There's a lot of Boone. There's lots of Boone experts in Kentucky. There's Boon experts all over. So they're not the only ones. But you couldn't have picked better guys than Robert Morgan. Robert Morgan's

in his mid seventies. And I'll tell you a story. We were unsure if he was I said this on the podcast. We were unsure, like if he was active at all. And anyway, I looked on it. I've looked him up. He had a website. Emailed him and within hours he was like, please come to my house. And this is a He's an incredible guy, very humble, like he's a professor at Cornell University. And I would have only known Cornell just kind of through the office. And Andy,

Andy is a graduate of Cornell. Did you if Andy was in his class? And he probably gave you a blank st He was very humble, and he's from Appalachia, He's from North Carolina. But it was like such a great honor to sit with Morgan. What a great guy. And then I mean, it was awesome to talk with

Steve about Boone. But I mean Steve is he's engaging to talk with and he knows so much about Boone and more than he knows the facts about Boone, like Steve was able to put Boone in context so well you know, um and uh so Morgan you know, kind of had the details and could just walk through his life without any you know, he wrote this years ago. And uh, anyway, Nigua Seth, what did you think? Well, first of all, I don't know as much about Daniel

Boone as you are probably anybody here. So it was fascinating to me when you wanted to talk to me about archetypes because at that whole boy, I'm not gonna have anything to add about Daniel Boone. But I tell you what was fascinating to me about the art, the podcast and the discussion of archetypes, uh, was how you used archetypes to tell to make connections, to tell stories about who Boon was. And so it helped me understand the myth. And I think I've actually texted you about

the a little bit. When you, you you know, use the example of of Jesus going to the temple and his parents going and looking for him, and when you talked about and that was that was an excerpt from Morgan's book. Okay, all right? And then what who was it? That was it Morgan that talked about Moses's vision? Yeah? All that all that was in in in Morgan's book, it's unbelievable. So so you look at at Boone and you say, oh, this is why he's so identifiable, because he he sort

of matches up with all these stories. We know, all these stories that seem to recur through. I'm gonna I'm gonna go real highbrow here, and I am going to quote some science fiction because I know that there's a lot of crossover. I'm sure with your audience and science fiction folks, maybe maybe there's a lot o Black Panthers

considered science fiction. But there's this old there's this old sci fi television show I love called Battlestar Galactica came out in two thousand, and they say, over and over again, Uh, everything that has happened will happen again. And what they're is saying, in the storytelling way is all these stories that we see, they recur over and over and over again, the story of creation, fall, you know, rebellion, uh, and rebirth,

and they happen over and over again. And I think that's what was so powerful to me about thinking of of Daniel Boon through an archetypal lens, was that, oh, yeah, like that makes sense because I know that story or I know that story, or I know that story. I can place him, um, you know, as a character because I understand all these other stories, all these other characters that have existed before. Then tell us about the the cat, the cat, cat, the cat, the cat story that saved

the Cat. Oh yeah, so there's this, Uh, I can't remember the know you brought up cats on the last one. Guys, I'm somewhat of a cat fanatic cucumber. Go ahead, No, it ties into seth archetype. So there's a wonderful book out there. It's called Save the Cat, and I think of the subtitles like for novels or something. Save the Cat writes a novel and it's basically um. The author I can't remember her name, but what she does she goes through all several different genres of very popular UM novels,

and they've a lot have been made into movies. And so the story arcs, she would say, there's some similar to twelve archetypes stories. There's there's a certain number of kind of typical story arcs. And in those arcs there particular she calls them beats. And so each each story has these the stories that really compel us and grab us and like Gladiator. You know, things things like that have these particular beats, and once once you are aware of these beats, you really do see them in lots

of lots of movies and lots of things. And so one of the beats is where the main hero, the agonist, at the very beginning, at the outset of the story, he you know, he or she will quote unquote save the cat or it's this kind of innocuous, fairly unrelated supposedly to the broader picture. The hero does something really nice. Okay,

so he doesn't necessarily have to save the cat. And I can't remember the actual movie, but there are actually later The reason why she calls it save the cat is because in whatever movie it is that that's a

good example. That's a good example. The hero does something really kind, which is really similar you know, in in what Seth is talking About and and what Uh and Mark Robert Morgan in that book is like this appeal of the individual goes off by themself, you know where where Daniel Boone was out and he was gone too long, his mom didn't know where he was, and turns out he was fine all by himself. He killed this spar and was sitting by fire and look, boys, here's some

meat for you. And it's just like we look at Jesus and Luke chapter two, It's like, wait, where did you go? Oh? He was fine, you know. But the interesting thing culturally is like a Hebrew reader and here of that story in Luke would not look at it and say, oh, wow, he went off by himself, and that really kind of that that really kind of resonates

with me and appeals to me. A Hebrew reader here of that story in the Gospels would say, wow, he claimed to be from a different group when he said I was when Jesus said, I was in my father's house. So it's a totally is that what Boone did? When I mean the analogy, I mean, is that what Boone was doing when he said, guys, I'm cool, I'm here. I thought I was on the same you know, I'm not sure what Boone would have done. But culture, culture really determines what we see and we don't even know.

It's kind of a tacit lens that sits there and we look through it and we look at Daniel Boone's life and it's like, oh, really, like these aspects of him, and we tend to kind of minimize these other ones. And I think what's key about what you just said too is like when you as we as Westerners, as Americans, we interpret that as the explorer. I mean, there's an archetype, the explore archetype. And what does the explorer want to do.

They want to go out, they want to find freedom, they want to fight for their freedom, they want to you know, enjoy their freedom. Um. I mean when you look at the way the Morgan excerpt reads, it was, you know, this christ figure coming from Heaven coming to this new, unexplored territory and saying, I'm gonna go where I I know I can connect, you know. And it's uh Moses when he walks out saying, I'm going to

bring the people to the place through the desert. I'm gonna go explore and bring the people to the place where I know they can connect with God even though I don't get to go there. And and then with with Boon, it's I'm gonna go to the place where I know it's unknown. I'm gonna fight from my freedom, but I know I can go out there and connect. And I mean again he's using Morgan is using those those just cultural hooks to help us understand like, oh, yeah, this is who he this is who he was, because

this is the way that we interpret story. Yeah, call me, what do you think? Man? Before I do that, there's an elephant in the room. Oh, here's the thing he talked about the office. He's talking about Battlestar Galactic. Dan is over here talking about beats and we talked about bears bears set. Wow. Wow, there was a bullet in this magnum shooting to the roof. That's like six degrees of Kevin Bacon. That was Ken Bacon. It's killing me

over here. I was just like everyone has been listening to have to talk to well you Dwight for the rest of the episode. Alright, alright, yeah, Kobe, Kobe, uh you what do you think of it? Man? Man? I stood out to you. I really liked it. You know, I think there's a lot of things that that stood out.

But I think that the as there's two things. One thing is the aspect of where he was weighing out different cultural things between in the Indians and you know, white men, where he was looking at just what wealth is you know, contrasting those So just looking at the cultural norms inside of my life of what I perceived as value, you know. So so it's like, whenever I listened to something, I listened from the lens of is there something that I can get out of it that

overlays my life? That could you know, maybe like pull off some hedgemon that I just believe, Right, So that's one. The other one would be um let let me comment on that. So that section that was an excerpt that I read from Morgan's book about um the contrast between the European and Native American worldview, and it talked about

how the Native Americans thought Europeans were crazy. I thought they were insane for trying to trying to pursue wealth, like I mean, I think maybe we all got it in that moment, But if you actually think about that, it's like very rational, very like if you lived off the land like Native Americans did, and people came here and we're in search of precious metals which were of like zero, I mean, like if we had a bar of gold out here in the mountains, setting by our

campfire when we were deer hunting, trying to live off dear meat. It would be like, bro, don't put that on the mule. Yeah, I mean like like so when you tell us that sounds wild, but it actually is much more of a kind of primitive you know, ideology. But it's a wild because our lives as Westerners, it

really is. It's sad. It revolves around accumulation of wealth and and those that section of the book that was one of the sections ten years ago that I remembered Boone's ill illegitimate daughter, and then the Native American worldview was one of one of many. Yeah, it makes you evaluate. It's like, what are we doing here? What were we doing? Guys? I think that what what that jogged in my memory was. I remember when I was doing my research, my PhD research.

There's a study little guys call me doctor um. There's a study out there called Culture and Research Resource Conflict. I can't remember who wrote it, but there's the They looked at manimity Indians in Wisconsin and white you know, American sportsmen and how they viewed nature different. And so the boil the whole book down in the nutshell is like the white hunters wanted to quote unquote conquer nature,

whereas the Native people's the manimity. Indians and in this area really saw themselves as a part of it and that and that was the source of them looking at each other and thinking you're crazy, along with of course a history of the semmic, you know, discrimination in genocide, all kinds of other things. But fundamentally they viewed reality different. You couldn't have had two groups of people meet in the woods that would have had different ways of thinking.

I mean wild, yeah, and they're doing this, they're engaged in the same activities, so they're they're hunting, their gathering, you know, in the case of Daniel Boone, he's engaging in their activity. That's why Boone is Boone. And what Morgan and you know, I talked with Mr Morgan for three hours and you guys are gonna hear maybe forty

five minutes of that conversation. Um. He talked about how the Native Americans had way bigger impact on modern American culture than we give them credit for, because he said, like, for instance, and we said this, like these Europeans came over here, they didn't know a lick about hunting because they weren't able to hunt in Europe because of the systems are you know, just the hierarchy of the nobility

hunting commoners coming over here. It would be like, I mean, imagine being a new adult onset hunter thirty five years old, showing up and having to make a living off hunting. You wouldn't know much. Native Americans taught taught, taught these men how to hunt. They watched. But Boone, he was drawn to the Native Americans from the beginning. Did you just use the phrase adult onset hunter medical conditions terminal

if you're not successful term um. So they had a big, big influence and that's what made Boone who he was like. It really did like he and you'll see in these next couple of episodes how the Native American worldview so influenced him. And Boone did a whole bunch of stuff that really he probably shouldn't get credit for. And it's not because he didn't do it, but it's because it

wasn't necessarily his intent. Like when Boone went through the Cumberland Gap and started settling in Kentucky, he wasn't thinking of an American empire that he was the spear point of the dude wanted some good deer hunting. He wasn't looking to expand anything except his hunting ground. I mean that is he he wanted a place for his family to live where that he could get away from, you know, some of the pressures back home. But like he was

not like man, I am a patriot. Actually will learn that he wasn't much of a He really wasn't that much of a patriot. He went back and forth. He was tried by the Americans for treason because they thought he was a Tory, and they thought he was in coops with the Native Americans, which the French in the Native in the Native Americans were to working together to

keep the Americans out of the West. Man. So the real life Daniel Boone really really didn't he would the narrative of yeah, I mean like he fought for America to make all Americans free, No, sir, He was a teamster in the French and Indian War. To make a living. He was a truck driver, being a teamster. That essentially because my grandfather was a teamster. And I always wonder where did that name come from? Like why do they call him teamsters? And that put I put two and

two to two and two together. When he had horses and mules and he was a truck driver. Oh and he called himself a team teams and I was wondered why they were just his motivations were not as like pure as what the archetype would suggest, you know, yeah, or the myth. I mean I I was looking at these lyrics too, right when you started singing right that the who he actually was didn't match with the myth

that we've made him out to be. And I mean, I think that goes back to what we were talking about in our conversation about you know, humans are terribly complex. It's you know, we're not just archetypes. It's easy to boil everyone down in this room to a certain archetypal, you know, type or character, but we're all complex, We're all the you know. In some circles, you may be uh, you know, a complete the scene as a complete rebel, and there's a complete lover and another's a fierce explorer.

And and that's what I think made the first episode to me so impactful, was because you start to see these layers. And I can't wait for the second episode to see those layers because I think it's it does help to deconstruct some of the mythology that that frankly, he helps make him more of a man, more of a human, more of a person, less of a myth tall tale. Yeah yeah, I really that Onceeth said that made me think about the the the layers of who

he was. The the impacting story to me and that just you know, my family is is something that I've put a lot of emphasis on, doo and you know, building my marriage and and building my family with my children. The story that really impacted me was the one with his son where he was. They were on the river bank camping. Um even like the sun shooting the deer, and it was there was a bear shooting the bear.

Yeah that's right, Um, his son killed the buck and uh, you know Daniel heard the shot, came back and was like, let's find this. You know, there was there was this sense of camaraderie over this thing that that Daniel would have loved so much to experience that with his son. And then and then the position of being a father and a protector, being aware and alert to hear the chops of the Native American hatchets across the river and saying, okay, here's the game plan, here's what we're gonna do. I

love seeing that. I imagine if one of us had that story, we're literally life and death. Like none of us. We just live in such a different world. But like, imagine if Dan had his story going out with his dad and people that would have killed him or kidnapped him for life, or at minimums stole in a bunch of his stuff. I mean, that was pretty common and and I can't cast judgment on their intentions, but usually

it wasn't good intentions. Uh yeah. During that story, I think one of the things that kind of gave me chills was whenever they were in the canoe and he just pushed off and he put his head to where you see under the fog, and that statements like I see what people think about him were like how they view him that particular way, Like it was like some some scales coming off of his son's eyes of like I see you a little differently right now, you know,

And just even thinking about times inside of my life of like how I viewed my dad at different times of stages of life. Think about how masterful that move was though, I mean, how he did that, like it was super very calculated, because I I thought, man you're hearing those chops, let's go. You know, why why why wouldn't he have gone? I thought about that. Why didn't they just leave? Well? It was dark. It was dark. You can't see anything. I think you gotta move slower.

You're gonna make a ton of noise. You know. I would have just panicked and ran. But one thing that is that Okay, that's right. It was it was dark, and they would have wrecked. The head lamps are probably out of batteries. So one of the things that touched me about it though, was when the Sun said that was you know, he shot that buck and Daniel came back and he said that was the last time that my dad didn't take me with him when he went

out from the fire. Yeah, and that was that was significant to the Sun. Well, I mean, talk about a moment in time that's fascinating, especially if you're a hunter. Is Daniel Boone teaching his youngest and last son, Nathan Boone, how did deer hunt? I mean that he did. Like Nathan told us that story. Dad told me that you don't you don't sneak up on the deer when they have their head up, but you slip in on him and on that one hunt they killed fifteen deer and

two or three bears. I mean like that's, uh, that's pretty wild. Like that was just like common. I mean, you know, heck, we go on a deer hunt and kill a deer or a bear in a year, We're like, wow, what a year. I mean they were they were wearing them out, man. That's what I liked about that whole thing was the relationship because that that made Daniel Boone or Dan as as like more relatable, like what Seth was talking about, because I can remember the coming of

age moment with my dad hunting. I can remember not so long ago the coming of age of my son hunting with me when all that came about, and I can relate that back to Daniel Boone and his son. How crazy is that? You know that? That that was what spoke to me out of this this first part.

So there's something unique and exciting and fun. And Seth would understand this having written a lot, is that when you really many of us in the room would I'm looking at Dr Dan respect when you dive into something so deep you, especially if you're researching a person like I felt like I knew I feel like I know Daniel Boone, I really do. Like I feel like if he walked in the door and sat down, I would know how to engage with him. It wouldn't be like

I feel like that. Now. Whether if that's true or not, I don't know. But but so when I read what the sequence of my study of Boon was first this Boon book, and then two other Boon biographies parts of them, and then the last book I got was Nathan was Lyman Draper. Okay, alex uh I said, Nathan Draper on the podcast is actually Lyman Draper, Thanks, Alex. I love that guy. I really do m Lyman Draper. I found out about that book here it is right here my father,

Daniel Boone. And it was like I had discovered and I had heard, I'd heard him talk about it, but I really didn't know it was so accessible to get, Like, I didn't know I could get on Amazon and show up in my house in two days. And so I was like, Dad, game, you can just order that book. And I ordered this book and I started to read

segment of the podcast Brought to You by Amazon. Yeah, I mean like was deeply moved by hearing Nathan's account of his father, because I included the challenging of telling a story like this is what do you include? There's just so much. And one thing that I did choose to include was that two different people sat down with Boone when he was an old man to interview him about his life. And one of him was his grandson in law, who when Boone was an old man, imagine,

imagine a granddaughter going to her new husband. Man, Grandpa is pretty cool, dude. I wish somebody would write his story, just like get him to tell stories. And the and the and the grandson was a doctor as I remember, and and yep, and the grandson goes and spends at a notable chunk of time. I can't remember interviewing Daniel's whole life. So I mean, this is like quill and E I suppose, and in the eight the teens of the eighteen hundreds that would have been quill and ink.

I don't know. He records the entire life story of Daniel Boone and Dan's words and this too, and we'll get to this in the later episodes. But Boone died a common man, and this, to me shows it as much as anything is. They had this manuscript of Boone's life and his own words, and it just got lost. M hmm, I mean just got lost. I mean if you had sat down and interviewed uh, I mean I I don't want to name a political figure, because Dwight Eisenhower.

If you if you sat down and interviewed Dwight Eisenhower and that was the only part of history, I mean like you would probably take care of that manuscript. The manuscript was lost and and and then it happened again. Another young family member said, man, we gotta do that again because old Jimmy lost it. And so they sat down and started it, didn't complete it, but still had

a big chunk of it, and lost it. When Nathan Boone was in his seventies, he said, the family told me they were gonna give me the unfinished draft, but they never did. And so that's part of the reason, though, Seth Haines, why Boone is so mythologized is because we never heard him in his own voice. We never heard from his own boy. The only place we hear him in his own voice is John Philson, who wrote the very first part of When Dan was fifty years old.

You remember what made him famous what catalyzed him the single chapter in the book. But that's not in Dan's voice. You see what I'm saying. That guy took it way out of his voice. And so anyway, it's just it's it's a wild story, and it's uh um. What I hope people see inside of this whole thing when we're done with it, is Boone had the reason. I've said this before on The Burger's podcast. I'm I'm not interested in and not that you can like critique someone's character fully.

I mean, like anybody you talked to us in this room have flaws in our character. Brent I I was thinking that, but I I don't want to like, you know, highlight or celebrate someone that just had like it was not a good person. You know, Daniel Boone had pretty incredible character. Robert Morgan did a great job in this book.

And I actually talked to Morgan about it probably won't make the podcast because it just wasn't that flashy of a section, but I said, it seems to me like you like you're interested in like defending Boone's character, and he was like, yeah, I mean that's what I remember him saying. Just because Boone because we'll get into more. Boone had a lot of potential for having bad character. He was in debt to a lot of people, spend a lot of time in court over debt, tried of

treason a lot of people. I mean, anybody that's that famous, there's gonna be a lot of people that were jealous of him, didn't like him, and he made mistakes just like anybody would have. So anyway, but Daniel Boone, Dan Boone, it seems a little bit like are you're talking about?

You just keep thinking about what says talking about with archetypes, It's almost as if we talked about the founding fathers and as a nation we needed fathering, and that he certainly lived at a time, and then in the subsequent years, you know, we're still decades and hundred years later, our

our nation is still kind of forming. And we made this myth of a father who would do what Daniel did with his son and that canoe, which was let me wrap you up, put you in a blanket, and you laid down, and I'll paddle us through this kind of uncharted territory with some folks are chasing us. You know, we kind of made this myth and even that the lyrics of that song. You know, he fought to make

America free. It's kind of like, deep down just like us, we remember these like Brents talking about this moment with your father and your son. We need to be fathered and as a nation and as a culture when he fathers and so some of it's true, some of it's a myth. But we construct this father figure in Daniel Boone so we can feel safe, you know, so we can and so we have a place to head. You want to be like your dad, you know man and and Boone came at such a great time to be

an American hero. I mean this prime time was between seventeen seventy and seventeen eighty. Like we said in that quote about his thirties, I've had more people asked me for that quote, remember the quote the man in his thirties. Um, lots of people. That quote impacted Misty and I like such that we put it in her. It was actually it was actually in Misty's office. I would like to correct myself. I said, in the presence of Mr Mr Mr Morgan, that was in our house. It was in

our office. So anyway, we've had the quote but incredible quote. And it was so seventeen eighty, seventeen seventy to seventeen eighty, I mean the American Revolution with seventeen seventy six, I mean that was when we So it's like that's a good time too if you're looking for a hero's datus to be around. But I mean, to Dan's point and to what I said earlier, everything that's happened before all

happen again. I mean, and and maybe there's some anthropological uh you know, the truth here too, But like, I think that's where we are right now. I think the reason why people are sitting in this room discussing Daniel Boone all these years later is because, I mean, we're

at a point. I feel like we're at a point in our history, regardless of where you're on the political spectrum, where we we need some strong character driven individuals, men or women, but to step up and to say, like we we need to make something better of this country. And and that's why these stories keep resonating, because we we kind of come back to these moments of history where it's like, man, things things feel shaky, thanks Phil, like they're gonna fall apart a little bit and we

kind of we want those heroes, we need them. Yeah. Incredible, man, Hey, this has been a great conversation. I can't thank you guys enough. Really, thank you all. I love every one of you. Thanks for coming. Good, good combo. And uh, I wanted to show you one thing before we quit here. You'll see this. Brent described this. I'm gonna put it on on a scale of one to ten. I would give that about ten and a half. This is uh, this is my new hat. Boys. This is a hundred

percent beaver Felt sing custom made hat. Beautiful and it says handmade for Clay Nukelem and it has Burgrease right there. So they're out of They're out of Jackson Hole are Yeah yeah sing Hat Company. Uh, they're friends of ours and uh, I just got this in the mouth today Instagram and they have some amazing beaver Felt hats. And the reason that I have this on is because Daniel

Boone did not wear a Coonskin cap. He wore a beaver Felt really yeah, with a coonskin on top with what does everybody with a podcast get one of those ants? I wish man, I take I got one. There's not enough, not enough. Let me tell you something. This hat was designed to look like James Lawrence's hat put on my Instagram. I sent her the picture. Uh I sent her the picture of James Lawrence and uh so, anyway, yeah, I like it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna kind of

break it in a little bit. I like it. Nope, looking forward to episode two, Keep the Wild Places Wild, because that's where the bears live, and that's where Daniel Boone wanted to go, where the barriers were and it wasn't bit m hm