Ep. 11: Bear Grease [Render] - Moonshiners and the Land Bridge

don't see what the problem is. When are you gonna stop ignoring the evidence? Listen, listen, listen. They send me pictures and like, don't say anything. It's like a picture and it's like clearly a real black large cat. And it's as if they're saying, Clay, do you not get it that there are such things as black panthers? Okay? What my point is I am I am highly aware that there are large black cats in the world. Okay.

And if what I am saying is that there is no such thing as a black mountain line, you're saying, please stop. For the love of human No, I did. I actually did get a really good uh guy now this this I appreciate. A guy sent me a video yesterday and he gave no explanation. Was just a video on Instagram. It was his grandmother And I didn't, I didn't it was someone I didn't know. It was this picture. It was this video of this like perfect southern grandmother.

And she's sweeping in her little kitchen and you know the decor in the house. You could have just walked in there, any one of us, and which has been like, this is my grandmother's house. Yeah, And and she is telling a story and clearly doesn't know she's being videoed, and she's telling a story about a black panther. I mean, just like, I mean, just giving this guy the what for, Just like your grandfather was he was hunting over here, and she's sweeping, She's got her back to the camp.

She's sweeping and and a black panther walked out and she saw it. And I saw the tale of a black panther one time. And I mean she's just like, I mean, there's no room for like was it true? Was it not? It was just like this is the truth. No, no explanation from the guy. He just sent me to pick this video of his grandmother as if to say, you wrong, Clayton calling my grandmother. And then I went to the guy's profile and shout out to him. Uh, he was from he was from East Tennessee. Appreciate I

appreciated that a lot. No. Welcome to the burglary surrender. I've got uh, I've got to my left, Brent Reeves, who is going to give I'm gonna ask him to do something here in a minute. To his directory. To his left, Joshua Spillmaker. Josh Um there was the land Bridge is catching on shirt my own hat. Many people start hashtag can land Bridge. I'm I'm going to put a picture of Josh Spillmaker on my Instagram just to show you guys what I'm talking about. I'm getting a tattoo. Yeah.

Josh's left is doctor Daniel Rupe. Welcome, Dr Rupe, good to be here, Good to see you. And hey back from where he was My dad, Gary newcom Good to see dad. Yeah. Dad has been known to almost daily send me videos of black feline. I think he understands what I'm talking about. Hey, we got a new we got a new guest on the render. This is exciting, This is exciting. News especially we have a new a new guest, and I want all of you to feel the pressure of this. Okay, man, this is becoming like chopped.

There are don't see you know, you know where they lined up the chefs and like like they critiqued them and they and it's like chopped. Okay, and we're not gonna say you know who's not here today? Um, but no pressure whatsoever, you know what? This is really sad. The reason we have to limit the number of people in this room is because of technical issues. I've got six headsets. No I here's what exactly what I did. Because Josh and Malachi are like, uh, such good friends

of mine. I even I messaged them both Daniel. I messaged them both on a on a on a message and said, hey, boys, I really want my my friend I'm not gonna say his name yet to come to the render. Would one of you guys be willing to not come to graciously out? Do you know? The first test text message I got was Josh filmmakers saying it

ain't gonna be me. I'm dead serious, he was like, and so actually sent him a meme of of h Dana Carvey doing doing the George Bush not gonna do it, and so Malick I picked up his phone like an hour later. It was like, well, okay, I guess I won't up. Yeah he was. Oh no, so our new guest is Forest Teeter name, what a name? Appreciate it? Yeah, no doubt my country singer, country singer. I'm glad you still have a mustache for us, because I have some

serious I would if I could grow one. This is like, I feel kind of oppressed by this room right now. He and I. You know, I got something in common here, but the only clean shaving ones. I ain't got much to show here. Really, you're the only two that actually held real jobs in your life. Dude into it. Hey, okay, me and Forest have a very complicated web of relationship. Okay, because no, how old are you for us? I told him you were thirty? Really? Yeah? So we uh we

met after I killed my first black bear. I sent him in bear from Uh. It was it was during the time when I was recruiting stories for for Arkansas Black Bear Association and this kid killed the spar and so I was like, hey, dude, would you like to write a story for you? I was in eleventh grade, and that was like I was like, man, I'm gonna be famous. That's almost ten years ago, probably years ago. Okay,

the story continues. So we become buddies because he writes this story, you know, just like kind of like social media buddies. And then you killed a big deer. He killed a hundred sixty in deer a pan of where that was, he killed a hundred sixty inches dear. I said, hey, how about we do a story on this deer? Now did you write this story? I did the story. Okay, So he comes up here and he brings his dad and we we have a great time and hit it off. About that time, I needed somebody to go with me

to Idaho to film a mountain lion hunt. And so I didn't know you went on that trip I did. It was just it was just like the right moment. It was like, man, I bet, I bet Forest would like to go with me to film that mountaine. I was, I think a sophomore in college, so it it had been a while, uh so probably twenty years old something like that. I think I was more excited than you remember. I was like, for this, man, you read it. For this,

like I'm so I'm so excited. He's like, and he remember he told me at one point he was like, man, I need you to weigh your expectations. Just a very you know, level headed thing to say, but I need you to weigh your expectations. A lot of factors, the snow and everything. It's like, all right, reel back, real it in, real it in, you know, but it was it was cool. It was so cool. Okay, we're moving forward now. So we go to Idaho and have a great time, and I killed a mountain line with a

traditional bow. We made a film that's got like six hundred thousand views on Bear Hunting Magazine YouTube channel. You can check it out. So Forest filmed all that and it was a tough hunt. It was cold, and it was really neat. Okay, the story continues. He well, I'll come back to the tripod. Did you know I don't I bet you don't even remember this, or maybe you probably remember it. When I first had the idea of starting a podcast, I talked to you being on the

podcast with me. He is the only person that's ever straight up stiff armed me on wanting to be a podcast partner. He didn't ask you to read a book. I wanted to believe me. I want to I had before I knew what podcasts were. Yeah, this would have been like it was years before. I was just like brainstorm and we talked about on the way to Idaho too. We talked yes, and so I was like, hey, let's

let's start a podcast. Forest is like nope. I said, it was just like Malichi Nichols when I asked him if he wanted to be a partner in a boat and he was like nope. I remember when I actually started the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I was talking to just randomly talking to you about it on the phone, and you asked me what I was going to call it, and I said I wanted to call it the Bear Grease podcast years ago. Forest goes, now, you don't want

to do that. Yeah you didn't know. I mean yes, but I really okay, you either just totally agreed with me. I vividly remember you going, you don't want to have to remark it yourself. I may have presented to you Bear Hunting Magazine or Bear Grease, and I vividly remember you going, now, you don't want to do that. But perhaps you were agreeing maybe something I had said, because and I went with Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. Hold just hold on, this is going somewhere, okay, because Bear Honey

Magazine podcast was such direct branding. I remember you saying, now, you don't want to have to like convince people or tell them what bear Grease is if you're trying to promote a magazine. So it's like, let's just go straightforward marketing. This is the Bear Honey magazine podcast. We produced Bear Honey magazine. Okay. Because of that from this guy right here, the bear Grease name was preserved for such a time as this one time. The best dog name my family

ever had. Okay, you know, I've got kids, family, wife, and like we talked about dogs. The best dog name that we ever had was we had the idea to name a dog Scout. Okay, we almost named our kids Scout, but we didn't. So I go drive fifteen hours to go get a plothhound and my family is like, we're naming this dog Scout, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. We don't want to use the best name on a dog we know nothing about. Like, you can't

name the dog until you see it. You understand it, And I was like, I don't want to use that name on a dog that is going to be an ill repute. Okay, we get the dog and the dog doesn't work out, the dog is no longer on Newcomb Farm, and he got the name Scout ruined. It are you with me? The dog the dog name is ruined. We can never go back and get that. That would have happened if Forest Teeter hadn't told me to not name my podcast Burgrease. Don't you see what I'm Okay, your

best dog name is Cheater. What happened to Cheater? Well, I mean Cheater got stolen by some construction workers down Yeah. Well yeah, so so you you helped preserve the name Bargrease for such a time as this. You see, I'm so absolutely okay, all right, Forrest is in the navy. So Forest has now made something of himself. He doesn't just like follow around like people filming them. Forest. Uh, dude, you just went to tell us about being in the navy. Okay.

So uh, I've relatively new to the Navy. I've been in two and a half years. I guess. I went to officer candidate school in July of September and uh native Arkansan is most y'all probably suspected. But when Tarkansas Tech, and uh yeah, I just kind of decided about halfway through college. Had had a good job, honestly, but it was kind of a Remember I was catching birds and just kind of all over the place. Not I'm like,

where does this trajectory go? There definitely was a future there, but it's like I needed to look at something else and you know, explore my options, and uh always been interested in aviation, but decided I was just gonna send it on trying to be a pilot in the military. The Navy kind of had the lowest standards at the time, which is what I need, what I needed for myself, So I explored my options there got picked up in uh yeah, okay for you three over here, I'm pointing

it Dan, Josh, and Brent. He's in the Navy and that's boats and stuff, but he flies the airplane. It's taking me a while to figure that out. And Clay still hasn't seen top Gun. By the way, I just want to throw that out there. So true story. So anyway, thanks to Gary Nuclem, he protected you from he detected you from scientology standards in the bank vault. So you fly like an incredible plane for the Navy, which is not a small thing. They don't just let anybody fly

that thing, Dan, So tell us what you fly. So I played the six Mercury. It's a big seven h seven, big white plane. And basically the most pilots just when they're describing their plane till the color. Uh, it's it's unique in that most military aircraft are gray, I'll say that. So it's uh, basically a relay aircraft who talk to the nuclear submarines that are under the water in case we have missiles inbound. We can kind of provide that last line of defense for the United States. So we're

not operating over anywhere outside of the United States. Really, how many pilots fly that one plane? I think we have. Well, no, like like in a plane like anywhere, to walk out on the airstrip and take it up in the air, would you have to have another pilot with you? Yeah, So yeah, it's multipilot aircraft, so generally have three on board and uh, that's gonna be pilot Copott and then

one who can kind of change out. That's pretty impressive. Hey, and the other thing, this guy's a heck of a hunter, Like, no doubt, good Hunter. Thank good Hunter. We're gonna have Forest play some music later. Okay. We got a lot of very generous comments about the rendition, most slow Foot last Dad, you weren't here saying, oh, man, I to you it was impressive. Yeah, yeah, especially the guy on the cowbell that cow bell I had. I actually had one the only like musical correction that I had was

on the cowbell. Somebody was like, the dude on the cowbell needs to get on and then I started listening to it and I was like, yeah, he's right. At one point in the song, I realized I was daydreaming. I had to bring it back. Oh wow. Okay, So what we're gonna do on this podcast is we're gonna talk about moonshine, NASCAR, and bear hunting the Bear Grease

podcast that just came out. But before we do that, I totally skipped over every time I introduced all you guys, I want to like give just like a little nugget of information, and so Brent I got there's a couple of stories that I had to order, okay, just like special order stories. Okay, so Brent Reeves, tell me about tell me about your dad. Then, uh, the coon dog they used to borrow, you borrow in air quotes. Um,

when my dad and my uncle. My dad passed away, and now my uncle's still here, so I had to reassure him, and I tell this story that the Statute of Limitations is out on dog mapping. But this is my dad. This This would have been in the mid fifties. My dad was probably twelve or thirteen years old, and my uncle, Jimmy Ray would would have been he's a few years younger. And they loved the coon hunt. And there was a man lived down the road who had

a good coon dog. He also had a good job and so instead of coon hunting all night, he would work, you know, he were he he go to bed early here Colliday and go to bed early, and he'd hunts some on the weekends. But he had a real good dog, and apparently my dad and uncle thought that dog was going to waste just laying out laying out there in the yard. Coon hads were pretty valuable during that time too, and they would go hunting with this man. But they treat a coon and killed a coon that man gets

it's his dog. You know, he's shooting it there just the little boys going with him. So you couldn't expect him to give him a coon ads and you probably wouldn't have expected him steal a dog during the week, but that's what they started doing. They would slip up there after after he went to bed, and old dog was tied up on the chain in the backyard. And you said there was a night light, you could see him, said, the old dog had to sit up. He would look

at them. They'd slip up there and they'd hide the edge of the woods and they take turns. One of them would go up there and take the collar off the dog put the collar back just the way it was like the dog has slipped the collar. The dog would follow him. They go out in the woods, they tree, they go coon hunting. They got tired, they go back home and they just let the dog go and he would go back and get in that and get in the dog house. The next morning, man wake up, go

out there and feed his dog. He's laying in the house and there's the collar he is hooked back just like it was. He's slipping that collar. You know this dad come dog. He said they did that for a week, but every other night they did that. The last night they went up there to do it, probably the third or fourth time, he said, I send my little brother

up there. My uncle listen Dad telling the story, saying, little brother goes up there, and he crawls up there to cut the dog loose, and he comes crawling back real fast. And that's I thought. Maybe the man who woke up was coming outside, and he said, what's wrong. He said, we don't. We don't hunted this dog to death. And he said, well, you means he can't. We don't made him sick, he can't breathe. He said, he's just hot, he's got pneumonia, he's coughing. And that's how I go

up there and fix it, you know. So he crawls up there and said closer he got, the more we could hear that dog. He was struggling to breathe, and're like, what in the world we have towards this DOGA we have broke this dog. But but he crawled up there to get a better look. And that collar was so

tight on that dog. He said, if they would have took him that night, he don't think he would have been able to swallow and get a drag of water the next the next night, so that the guy, the man was tighten in that collar up every night that dog was sleeping and senting it down one and after the sent down, so they if I recall, it was a blue tick, it was a shocker. It was a blue tick. Man. That's great. Perfect, Hey, now for the uh y'all, y'all like these introductory stories. Yes, this is great.

And I didn't even tell the real story about Forest losing my tripod on the side of the mountain of Odaho. That's the main thing that I've ribbed Forest about since twenty for half a decade. So okay, listen, here's a treasure hunt for you. If somebody can go bring me back my tripod, they get a spot on the Bear Grease Friender, no doubt right there. If you if you can find and I would identify it and I would just be honest about it. If you can tell me

on a map where that was. And this excludes everybody who was involved in the hunt because there was a houndsman involved. I will fly you to Arkansas to be on the Bear Grease podcast. If you can return that tripod to me. We we treat this lyon and we come off the mountain. There was a terrible hike up, took two hours to hike up, and we come out well after dark. We're like walking in the dark. We didn't have flashlights. When we get back down to the truck.

And the next day I'm like forces my cameraman, I'm like, where's the tripod And he's like, you had it and I'm like, no, I didn't have it for us. This is your job. So the tripod is still probably standing up on three loves so at the base of a big old fir tree that at one time had a line on it. Um. Yeahs got fired. He never amatted to anything. Yet does he still paid? Melay took a net loss on that me a check like a d all right, yep, yep, um, I do have to Uh.

Meat Eater just came out with a Campfire Stories audio book. If you like stories like you just heard man, they went all out. It's a six hour audio book called Campfire Stories from Meat Eater. You can buy it anywhere you buy audio books. Random House is the one that officially published it, but basically, in all the Travels of Meat Eater. They gathered up lots of stories. I mean, I don't know if it's like ten or fifteen or twenty stories. They have the person that the story happened

to eld the story. People are like super excited about it. So as of July, you can buy that book anywhere you buy audio books. You know, it's an audio books, So check that out met your camp fire Stories and you can also find that on the meat eator dot com where they have their books. It's pretty cool. There's one story. I'll give you a teaser for one story, and I heard this story directly from uh what it is from Steve Ronella. He's the one that recruited the story.

But this is the way that it went is somewhere out west in one of the southwestern states, there was a poaching deal where a bunch of elk we're getting killed and they were being shot with small caliber rifles and not recovered, just like just like shooting an elk and just leaving it. This happened a lot, and so they called in the New Mexico Game and Fish to come in and they did all this investigation and finally they felt like they had a pin on the guy

who was doing it. They didn't know who he was. They just knew like what kind of truck he drove and stuff. This game warden is out one night and he encounters the poacher and they get in a road race, just an absolute road race. Wherever they're at. It's New Mexico, Arizona. The poacher gets out ahead of him and just disappears, just out runs the game warden. The game warden comes to a y in the road and he has to

make a decision on which way the poacher went. The game warden pulls into this why and there's a big mud hole, and from his truck, he decides that a car has not been through that mud hole. So he pulled up to the mud hole, and then he decides that a car hadn't been there, so he backs out and he takes the left fork. End of story. They never catch the guy. Ever. Fifteen years later, some some extended period of time later, a guy gets arrested for

like a streak of murders. Perhaps it was just one or two murders, but a guy gets arrested for murder and they've got him in the interrogation room and he just starts spilling his guts about all the stuff he's ever done bad. And he tells the investigator that he killed a bunch of elk and he used to just shoot him and leave him lay like a bunch of elk.

So this is recorded that this man said this. Well, they go ahead and contact the game and fish and say, hey, we got a guy here that's about to go to prison for murder that says he killed a bunch of elk. The game warden, who's still a game warden, goes and says, well, I'd like to interview. The guy goes, and this is again. This is years later, maybe decades later. The guy, the game warden is sitting across from this murderer and says, tell me about your elk, and the guy just starts

laying out all the places he killed elk. And this this game warden knows that this is the guy he was after for all those years. He doesn't tell him. The guy then says, one of your boys almost got killed. I mean, I don't know he said he said it. He said, basically, I spared one of your boys lives one night back and he told where it was. And the guy goes, tell me more, and he says, I've gotten a game board and started chasing me down the road.

Came to a why I went through the mud hole because I knew that the guy would be able to tell that I went through the mud hole. He went through the mud hole, turned his truck into the woods, got out and had an oozy and he was shooting those elk with an oozy. And he said, I got behind a bush about five ft after that mud hole, and I was sitting there and when he and when that officer came to the mud hole, I was gonna just mow him down. Wow. And the game warden is

the one who was in the truck. It's setting there interviewing the guy. And uh, and he never told him. He never he never said it was me, but uh, it was. It's just a hair raising, didn't him. Wait, he didn't to the mud hole, and this trained game warden clearly he perceived that no car had driven through the mud so he turned around and went the other way. But if it was anyway, it appeared to me he

was close enough to shoot you. Well, just the way it worked out, like the guy was gonna just wait until he came right past him and just shoot him. Was that same grandma that was sweeping the floor. It was the guy from East Tennesse. So that's the kind of stories that are on. That's just one of them. And there's like the firefighters almost getting killed with fires coming in on them, people getting saved from drowning, lots of hypothermia stories. Wild hypothermia is like, you ain't gonna

get one of them stories from in here today. It's a little warm, and the hypothermia stories are like really wild. Um, people do start doing crazy stuff like terminal I've heard Steve talk about terminal burrowing. When people get hyper hypothermia, they feel like they can dig into the ground and just ball up, and they end up basically digging their own grave. And there's a story about a man who did that but survived. But so camp fire stories meet.

I always remember, the only thing that you get anxious about is drowning. Yeah, it's you had a close call once, Yeah, I did. The only thing I ever hear you talk about with like year in reverence, like I don't want to get in that because it's fast moving water. Man. I'll tell that story another day. Yeah. Hey, what do y'all think of Episode two? I think it's stepped up. You know, the previous ones are probably a five and a half. We're looking we're probably might even be hitting

sixth territory. Now. It was pretty it was pretty racy. I have to say, yeah, yeah, i'd label that one is p G. Yeah. Hey, I don't I don't know if anybody caught it, and I don't necessarily want to bring attention to it. Did any of you guys hear a word that typically wouldn't be said in my podcast? Did you catch it? I don't think so. If Gary didn't catch it, that's all I care about to this day. I'm, you know, a grown man. All I care about is my dad not hearing somebody cuts Oh really, I didn't

hear it, you man. My squirrel dogs gott a squirrel treat out here. Can y'all hear em barking? Nobody heard Mr Roy Clark call his dog? Oh, I did hear that classic name? But that I mean in that context it absolutely is okay, So y'all didn't even I don't even think about do you say jip jip jip in the terms he used. I mean that that word has been prostituted from that to be Oh. Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's I didn't have any problems, but when I let Misty listen to it, she was like, oh, you

get a little because I really do. I have boys. We have gained the trust of people that let their kids listen to our podcasts, and that's something I take very serious. Um. At the same time, like the podcast is not necessarily like four kids. I mean, and I gotta get this dog to be quiet. That could be of the best discussion dog market. Yeah, we've got to get that dog shut up. Um No, I take it

very serious that people can. I mean, I hear it all the time, and that's what I wanted that That's that's been my issue with some other things I listened to, is like I gotta be careful with the kids in the car because I just don't want them to hear foul language or anything. And so but it makes my day. It makes it like if I go to Roy Clark's house, I want to hear him. I want to hear him say that when he's talking about his dogs. Makes my day. Why, I just I just like it. He just he just

said it without skipping a beat. That I was like, oh, yeah, that's normal. Yeah, absolutely normal. I just wondered if anybody caught that. No, what highlight Josh of the podcast. Yeah, so that the second part moonshine, NASCAR bear hunting, it was kind of racy. It was racy, and I actually didn't know all that about Now Scar, I thought that was terribly interesting. I'm trying to outrun the fuzz. Yeah, and uh, you know, and then and then the part at the end, I don't know if you know, the

whole snake handling thing. Oh, that was pretty wild. Yeah, that you know, you hear a lot about that, and uh, just to to have that around people's culture, like there were certain groups of people that that was completely normal, you know, to the to this day. Yeah. Now, he said that that started in the twentieth century, early twentieth Is that what you said? Early nineteen I want to say that the most of it started in the early

nineteen hundreds. No, that's a purely American thing that elsewhere. No, that's what he said. He said, snake handling and churches for you know, ceremony is like new Dan. How did I handle that? Because listen, I did not want to, like I said it on the podcast, like I strongly believe in religious freedom, and uh so I wasn't like trying to say these people are crazy. I mean, man, yeah so. But but at the same time, I've been highly aware of not stereotyping people are painting a picture

that is untrue because that's really easy to do. So on both podcasts, if you recall, I said, hey, I want you to know that Appalachia is a very diverse number one, it's not all white people. Number Two, it's a very modern part of the country. It's not like everybody lives in like the log cabin. I mean, you know. On the first one, I said, there's there's swanky coffee shops and targets, Supercenter. I was trying to think of

the most like urban things I could think of. But but so I didn't want to stereotype the snake handling churches definitely as a stereotype, but I was very interested in that. So I talked to him, how did how did I do? I thought you handled it great. I mean, I think there's a place to say this is happening and kind of why it's happening without necessarily making a judgment call on it. But as you're exploring their culture and talking about different things. That's a especially people closely

tied to the land. So much of what they do is physical, tangible activities. They don't just sit around coffee shops and talk about their feelings. They're harvest and tobacco or their bear hunting, or they're doing whatever, and this is another material manifestation of their culture in church. Um, well, if it's a yeah part of it, I mean want to skip over something that's yeah, that's there. And the

other thing. I do think that it's been I do think there were times when that was probably more authentically done and then some of this new stuff and I've not I've seen small documentaries on it, and it's just to me, it's just clear that this is since like they're trying to look sensational, and I mean, I think we have the right to at least say what we

think as I and so that I didn't. I didn't want to foster that, like, but at the same time, there was parts of it that were that were pretty interesting. At some point that probably started with some form of it's hard to imagine, but like kind of good or even neutral intentions, and then it became you know, a lot of people are gonna, Dad, did you ever hear about snake Hamlin churches everywhere? Did you ever? Did they ever? Did you ever know that to be done? And the

in Arkansas? No, no, no, only on documentaries that you see on TV, and uh, very intriguing. And the thing that intrigued me, if I understood it right, was people that would go document the stuff sometimes would get caught up in that movement and I'm like, going, you gotta be kidding me. So there is tremendous power in this activity, be whatever power it comes from. I mean it captivated

educated people kind of like a Stockholm syndrome. You know, where you do you when you identify with your kidnappers if you were there for such a long period of time, Like Patty Hurst is a famous example of that. She was kidnapped by some faction. Uh. Grant's a granddaughter to the hearst fortunate thing and she was with him so long, uh that she started helping him rob Banks like deal

me in boys. I mean, well, I mean you see it everywhere also that you know people are it's almost like a high they get from doing things that are life threatening. Sky divers and all that kind of stuff. I think it people experience that sensation of of encountering a life threatening situation and walking away in scathe. The old saying is you never live until you almost die, and I think Tim McGraw said that, but I mean I have on that to Yeah, Yeah, it does make

sense because you've got a group of people. They're meeting I'm you know, I'm assuming weekly, they're doing it in person. It's a big group. They're engaged in a tangible physical activity. There's risk involved, but it happens in a socially sanctioned and kind of approved way, at least in their community.

Just those factors right there. A lot of people in a in an urban setting are not going to have that, you know, they're they're going what they're that for them is they're going to work and they're just doing it to get paid. You know, maybe they enjoy their job, but you can you can see the draw even though you know you personally and I think, I'm I'm never gonna do that, nor would I feel the need to or condone it, but kind of socially, the mechanics make sense of it for us. What stood out to you

about it? Um, I guess part of what you said about not not not necessarily Snike Canon. We can go on just the podcast in general. Probably the thing that that I really took note of the most, or I guess what kind of made me question myself and my own beliefs, was the part number one about the metaphor that your family made about Hey, if your kids were dealing meth, would you, you know, be beholding to these people that honorable to to protect those people and to

not doul them. Ountain That kind of thing really stood up to me because it puts an interesting question number one, if obviously legal doesn't necessarily equal moral or ethical for that matter. So people that don't really have good opportunities to make money for their family, I mean, who's to say that any of us in that situation, Hey, we gotta put food on the table. Are we gonna run moonshine?

Are we gonna do things that we normally wouldn't? Because when it comes down to it, you have responsibilities to your family, and uh, you know, it's hard to say without being in that situation what you do, but it definitely kind of can pull you two different directions. So what y'all think about my grandpa's story? I want to ask that about Houston. Yeah, go ahead, No, No, what we can say, Well, you just that you mentioned that,

you know that it wasn't uncommon. We have an extended family member who would have UH in the thirties when he got caught UM. He went to the federal penitentiary in New Jersey. And it's kind of a funny story how he got caught while he went to prison for um for making moonshine. The reason he got caught was a pair of overalls. And this guy was like like, this guy was like, Carl lewis Man, we're trying to we're trying overall sponsorship. Gets overalls, will sponsor this podcast

more overalls than you ever knew you could make. You cannot. You couldn't kiss this guy on foot. You couldn't catch him on the more. Where did this? In South Arkansas and Cleveland County, Panther Country. He was fast, they say he was the fleet of foot. And the revenuers have tried to catch his cat two or three different times and they could And you see that I just threw that subliminal so subtle. They couldn't catch him. I mean they'd get after him, he'd outrun. Of course, he knew

the woods and lay of the land. He just moved steel. And one morning they laid out there and he started. He was out there cooking, getting the fire gone, and the old morning constitution hit and they literally caught him with his overalls down. That's the only way they could catch him. I thought you were gonna says, he couldn't get him up and get gone, And that's how they

called a footnote to that story. His job in the Federal Penitentiary in New Jersey wherever it was located, was making moonshine for the warden and all the admin staff. He had chickens and made whiskey in the in the aitentiary. Wow wow, wow, Dad, Okay, I vividly that you heard me tell the story. Now, we called so Houston Millsap is my mother's father. So he died when I was in the eighth grade, so that would have been like,

I don't know, mid nineties he died. So I have real strong memories of we called him people people I had I have, like you know, he was like I have really vivid memories of him and and great memories of him. But he was always sick. He had a stroke and he never was well my whole life. But I vividly remember Dad telling me that, you know, Dad was looking for something good to say about about old people, and he would say he was honest to a fault.

What what do you remember about Houston? Well, I remember a lot about him. I mean, uh, when I would pick Judy up when I was in college. I remember one time I was barefooted and he he'd never let me live that down. You're trying to marry my daughter. You ain't got shoes. Come on, man, Well people, I always admired him. I'll tell you to be honest with you. He was. He had a few faults, like all of us do, but he was very honest. He didn't try

to hide anything. He was up front. And when I go back to a sixteen year old boy and some of the stuff you've already talked about, forced alluded to it a little bit. But you know, if if you're in a moonshine culture in your uncle's, your aunts, your dad, your mother, your I mean, you're gonna run moonshine. I mean it's just that simple. I don't care if it's Billy Graham, He's gonna run some moonshine because it's it's in your little culture that's okay, and and the penalty

is going to prison. You know. So anyway, he paul Um. You know, the culture that he was raised up in was you don't squill on anybody. You know. The culture I was raised up in was don't get involved in stuff that you gotta worry about you. So to me, it's like a big deal. But you know, hey, I was in this other little culture. So hey, he ain't gonna squill. And I admired him for it. You know,

I forget this mess stuff you're talking about. I mean, in his situation back then, it's you know, it's really easy to go back thirty forty years and criticize people the people doing to criticize, and if they were there, they'd be doing the same stuff. Historical revision is what's that's called. That's what it's called. Well people was a fine man, tell you he had a fine family. And me mall was like the Queen of Queens. I mean,

this lady was unbelievable. And for her to pick people, and I mean so Natalie was like, yeah, you know, I want to I want to justify why I said what I said. I stand by a dent of what you said, Like, I think it was honorable that he didn't write them out. Both two women in my life that are very influential told me the same story separately.

You know, my mom said, I understand. Mom said, hey, I don't know that that's something to be celebrated, and and they were a little bit hesitant to me telling the story, and uh, but I I just had to tell the story, and uh, and I did take the most feedback that I got, specific feedback was people saying

that it wasn't fair to compare moonshine to meth. And I I'm a hundred percent on board with us because because math has never been legal and and you know, there was just a short period in human history but where making liquor was illegal, you know, And so basically basically they're like clay, that's not apples to apples, because meth is like, I mean, it's possible to you know, consume alcohol and be and not be a drug head. I mean like, but if you're doing any kind of math,

you're in big trouble. So I get that. And I wasn't trying to make a heart. I was just trying to because that was a new thought to me. Yeah yeah, And you know, just because I'm saying it doesn't make it right. That's just what I believe. And you're not gonna change my mind. Now. One other thing I wanted to say, and I did not have the opportunity when when when Roy said, my dad, my grandpa, my uncle and their friends stayed drunk all the time. I mean

that like, set me back. So you look at generations of people. I had a guy to do this one time for a group of people. He said, Uncle so and so raised his family this way, and look what happened. Uncle so and so did it this way, and look what happened. And he drew it down he went through. So most of the people in that group might have followed the uncle dad. And then then you see this

destruction women's children, families. Then you've got guys like Roy Clark that goes, hey, man, I don't want any part of that. My grandmother would say, she would not let me look at this, right, She would not put a thief in her mouth to steal her brains. My dad said, is okay, let him run around in there a little bit, just don't take the handcuffs. So yeah, you carry. What I really liked is that moment where Roy is and I can't remember the exact details, but he's talking uh

to you. But in the room is the grandson of the the gentleman who wrote him the Valentine and said and and from what I from what I got was that the Roy in that moment looked over at that grandson and basically affirmed him and said, this guy's a

stand up guy no matter what. And that to me is the embodiment of of what you're saying, Gary, which is like Roy decided he's going to do it different and as he looked around at him and he saw a man doing something right, man, I affirmed that and that guy he's what did he say about he said? He he said that boy right there, I won't leave you. And I loved him for it. And you know, think about all those men who had left Roy, and he said,

I don't want to be that way. And then he's now looking at the younger generations and saying yes to that and and in it, you know, at the same time he's saying no to something else, which is I think one of the things that I saw in Mr Roy is that, um, you know, it really wasn't about the drinking or not drinking. He had an awareness of patterns that he chose to steer clear of. He said, I know, I know that that you know, and I

really don't think and I know. For me, it's not about drinking or not drinking, it's about understanding how the patterns are and generation generational continuance. I believe someone can can drink moderately and have great kids, but you have to be aware. It really comes down to awareness. So I appreciated the fact that because because he had to see something in them that he didn't want and adjust his life according and in Mr Roy did something that's

very hard. He he broke something that was not common for people to be able to break, like to be able to have that kind of awareness and just do it ninety degree turn. And hey, that's the reason that podcast is about Roy Clark. I had I had a few one person particular that wrote me and and and he missed the whole point of everything I was doing because he tried to tell me that there were better bear hunters than Roy Clark that I could have done

a podcast with. And I mean and I I took liberty to like, smack the guy upside the head really did. It wasn't somebody I knew it was like, because I was just like, basically, I feel the liberty to highlight like nobody's perfect. I mean like James Lawrence isn't perfect, Roy Clark getting perfect, Gary nuclemtting perfect. But the people that I highlight have some level of character and that is something that I that I deeply value. Identified so much with what he was talking about and how emotion

emotionally got I was talking. I got a friend in England, Adam Deane, that listens to the podcast. This guy has such a passion for all the stuff that we do. And there are no coons in the United Kingdom. There ain't enough coon dogs in England to fill up that dog pin right out there, but he absolutely loves it. And he and I were talking the other day back and forth, and he said, he said, you know, you described coon hunting so eloquently to me, and I'm like, well,

I'm gonna need to hear this back. What did I say? He said, well, you told me that you know, coon hunting wasn't coon huntan wasn't at the tree. Coon hunting was everything before and everything after and and he's right, you know, it's it's me sitting out in the backyard with my watching my coon dog and my little girl run around the backyard, or my wife come home from Texas Hill day with a bow tie for this dog to wherever, and this dog is just that's the whole thing,

the whole embodiment of it. And that's what I got out of Mr Roy's passion and how emotionally was about it. Man, I get it. And if you get it, the guy that wrote you the story or the roads that note about there are better bear hunters out there. There may be more successful in numbers of bear hunters out there, probably, but they probably ain't no better one than that. And he missed what I appreciated about Roy. So I went back from an old podcast like that. I took that

that conversation out of context and played it. And Roy never gave a second thought to him breaking down into tears in front of There were twenty people in that room. Like in the podcast, there were four guys that had headsets on. There were twenty people. There was like a live recording like neighbors, grandkids and they and and I actually thought, you know, I wonder if Roy is gonna say, hey, don't put that on there. That embarrassed me. It never occurred to him, like he just he just is what

he is. And that's that's powerful, especially in a culture that defines manhood and all these false ways. I mean for a man, for a grown man to be able to look across the room and call somebody out and break into tears and then immediately jump back into talking about bear dogs. To me, that's where does that happen? Emotion like, that's that's that's good. Well, that granted the sun the guy that got on there and it said,

see how important it is to us. Put in that same position, I could see that guy doing the same thing. Oh yeah, we just scripted out for everybody in that room that looked up to him that hey, this is it's okay too. It's okay to cry, it's okay to have to express affection for someone, and not just it's okay, but as Roy Clark, I am a man, and this is how you be a man. It's not just permit, it's not okay you can do that, but if you're gonna be a man, this is how you be a man.

Another thing He said that it's similar to what you know Gary about maybe the negative side to keep him people around, but I liked it anyway. He said, you know, if this is a if you want to have, if you want to make money, this is a terrible place to live and do life. But if you want to have a close family, and I'm paraphrasing what he said, he said, I believe there's no better place in the world.

And I think just that value of he knows what's important to him, and he goes about building his family that way, and so he structured his life in particular ways to make that happen. That's the that's the ninety degree turn from the popular culture, which is what you're gonna you. You gotta get it an education, and you gotta get a job, and you gotta get a two car garage. And I mean I've got to I've got a ton of education, but I still want to have a family. You know, Well, it was Yeah, I thought

I thought that. I thought Dr Dr Pierce did a good job of showing a balanced perspective. Dr Pierce has a book called um Corn, Uh, what's it called? Corn from a Corn from a Jar? Corn from a Jar? And it's about moonshiners. And he says in the book that his point was too humanize moonshiners, which was interesting because I came into it not wanting to glorify it. I just wanted to tell the story. And Uh, and he I think he gave a really balanced, good view,

like you'd learned something listening to that. I thought he did a good job. The NASCAR stuff was cool anyway. The podcast to me, I mean, I loved it. What's so cool about this is I'm I'm researching the stuff that I'm interested in. So like I could have made that podcast and like nobody heard it and me just listen to it, and I would have. I would have loved it. It's like all all stuff, but I'm like super interested in. But the big question is, would you

listen to this podcast The Render with these stories? Of course, get your guitar out, all right, what are you gonna what are you gonna sing? Us? Well, I hope my guitar is still in tune, first of all. But I picked a song that, uh has a lot of layers here relative to what we talked about and just The Render in general. This is a song written by Jimmy Driftwood, recorded by Doc Watson, nineteen sixty six. All right, let's hear what's it called. It's called Tennessee Stud. Oh, this

is gonna be good round about eighteen twin. If I haven't left Tennessee very much alive, I never would admit it through the Arkansas. But if I hadn't been a riding on the Tennessee stood, I had some trouble with my sweethearts Paul, one of her brothers, was about out long, so's some of your camera wrote her a letter by my uncle, and I rode away on the Tennessee stood. The Tennessee Stud was long and lean, the color of

the sun, and his eyes were green. He had the nerve, and he had the blood, and the nevil was a horse like the Tennessee Stud drifted on down into no man's land, across that river called the Rio grand I reached my horse with the spaniards full till I gotten me a skin full of SimMan and gold. Me and the gambler we couldn't agree, and we got in a fight over Tennessee. We drew our guns, and he fell

with the night road away on the Tennessee. He stood Tennessee stud was long and lean, the color of the sun, and his eyes were green. He had the nerve, and he had the blood, and the never was a horse like the Tennessee. He stood, guy, just launch him as a man can be, dreaming of the girl in Tennessee. The Tennessee studs green eyes turned blue because he was a dreaming of a sweetheart too. We loped right back across our innsas whipped her brother, and I whipped her palm.

That's right, no relationship. I found that girl with the golden hair, and she was riding on the Tennessee mayor Tennessee burn. Tennessee stud was long and lean, the color of the sun, and his eyes were green. He had the nerve v and he had the blood, and the never was a horse like the Tennessee. He stood stirrup to stir up, in side by side across the mountains and the valleys wide. We came to Big Muddy and

we fought the other flood on the Tennessee. There in the Tennessee stud, pretty little baby on the cabin floor, a little horse cool playing around the door. I love that girl with the golden hair, and the Tennessee Studd Love the Tennessee mayor. The Tennessee stud was long and lean, the color of the sun, and his eyes were green. He and the nerve van he had the blood and then never was a horse like the Tennessee right on the awesome. That's right, perfect, perfect, That is a heck

of a song. You know, so many layers grin from ear to ear every time I hear Arkansas, and so I mean, I cannot help it. I'm like, I love it. When you told me pick one, how one of mine? I was like, I know, the one equines Arkansas. Tennessee's hard to ram Arkansas. Well, hey, thanks a ton, guys, Thank each and every one of you. This has been a good render. And keep the wild places wild because that's where the bears live and that's where we get beared. Groups.

I hear your best out hood, Josh. I feel so bad going after Brent because that's a good I'm glad going okay, yeah, okay, Gary, don't let me down for that's that's good. That's I can do anything. That's the best one yet, that's okay. Next time trying out next time,