Episode 123: Water Filters

spk_0:   0:00
Hello, everybody.

spk_1:   0:01
Hello, everybody. And welcome to the show The Big Show, the most critically acclaimed an important podcast that is filmed in our June bug killing machine. At least I think it's June bugs that we've been hitting about every 10 15 seconds says we're driving home.

spk_0:   0:18
It's time for them to suicide because it's almost the end of June here. Yeah, or of

spk_1:   0:22
course, it might be. Japanese beetles have been having a Japanese beetle Problem hopes It's bad. Yeah, I don't want those things anywhere near my house. Anyway. Welcome to the show. We're not here to talk to you about June bugs or Japanese Beetle or any other kind of pest we're here to talk to you about. Well, okay, maybe some other kind of pests. But we're talking about microscopic waterborne pasts, and that's right.

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Nasty things you might find in your order

spk_1:   0:51
how to make your water not be nasty.

spk_0:   0:54
Yeah, What started this is I saw a story on what's been going on in Venezuela, and in case you haven't been following what's been going on in Venezuela, the government's kind of fallen all the pieces to the point where they can no longer supply. Basic service is like, oh, running water. They just haven't repaired the infrastructure enough. So the rich people in Venezuela are now getting together and drilling their own wells right there in the middle of the major city of Caracas. That made me think. I wonder what the poor sods who can't afford to drill their own wells are doing. But some of them I get water service for like, three hours a week, and some of them have trucks come in that given some potable water. And I bet that leaves a whole lot of people getting water out of ditches and surface streams. And

spk_1:   1:51
as somebody who has lived in a situation where we got water, we only got two hours every other week and we're trucks pulled in with possible water for months on end that somebody has lived through that on a glorious island in the Pacific. What was undergoing a huge drought? I'm here to tell you it's no good way to live. It stinks. And there was no drilling for groundwater where we were because what we didn't know the land and to there's no ground water there. It's an island well can I just don't get ground. You

spk_0:   2:27
drill really deep in a volcanic island, and the fluid that comes up is not water.

spk_1:   2:32
So there you go.

spk_0:   2:35
So if you have to get water from a surface stream, I could visualize that easily happening in a city because of City Service's fail. I think water is gonna be the first thing that really bites people because people keep almost no water supplies. People in general keep almost no water supplies, and even preppers can't keep a whole bunch because, well, it's really heavy, and it takes up a lot of space. So there's gonna be a lot of people having to get water from very questionable sources, right, And there are a lot of ways to purify water out there. A lot of them, though, are really suitable best for wilderness kinds of situations. Like when I go hiking a carry a filtering water bottle that filters it's a good one. It filters everything down to the size of viruses. When you're talking about sizes of stuff that you need to filter out, the biggest stuff is like silt invisible particles, and that's really easy to get rid of even a good T shirts trainer can get rid of a lot of it, but it's not that helpful because the water looks better, but it's not safe to drink that point. It might be useful for a pre filtered for other methods, but you can't drink the stuff just out of putting it through a Queen T

spk_1:   4:00
shirt. Well, let's be clear. It is useful to get the heaviest part of the set of its out because it keeps the rest of your process less donkey. Yeah, you're gonna pour that into safe for your Kelly kettle. You want at least amount of gunk in there

spk_0:   4:17
ended. It's much more appealing, and it removes some of the microbes and things because they're stuck to the little bits of mud. But still, it's in no way safe to drink after that. And then you get the particle filters that take out in order of size, the biggest star, the cysts like worm cysts and any of the filters on the market. Take those out reliably. Even a good coffee filter will take those out. Then you go down to protests like giardia, which are a real problem in a lot of wilderness areas, but they're also big and fairly easy to get rid of. It's a little single celled organism with the nucleus that swims around in your guts and does terrible things to them go littler than that you got bacteria and bacteria cause a wide range of human diseases, including cholera. And then you get really, really tiny, which are the viruses. A lot of the filters out there for camping and stuff take out things bacteria sized and bigger, but they don't take out viruses, which is OK if you're camping.

spk_1:   5:36
Yeah, you're not likely run into a whole lot of viruses out in the middle of the wilderness that are gonna really affect humans. But if you're in a city when you're drawing contaminated water, you're gonna run into virus. Hepatitis is going to be wrote

spk_0:   5:54
a virus Noro virus. Another thing they call cruise ship disease is a virus, and it's really easy to catch from contaminated water. There's a bunch of viral diseases that are likely to be in surface water in cities that you don't have to worry about when you're camping. So your standard camping filters, like some of the like the life straws are famous for this, they'll take out bacteria, but they won't take out viruses.

spk_1:   6:27
Some will. Some of the better camping filters, like some of the tad ones. Uh, well, the one we have really good Tad one.

spk_0:   6:35
Yeah, the

spk_1:   6:35
gut will

spk_0:   6:36
the good, expensive tad ones do. And the run of the mill really portable, lightest and smallest of the protagonists don't right. And that's about par for the course. She gotta read the labels carefully and look at the sizes of these guys. The accompanying article here has a list of the various sizes of some of the filters and the sizes of the organisms and what they'll take out. So a good quality filter will take out viruses, and that's plus. And if you're out in the woods, that's basically what you gotta worry about is mostly the microbes. But then you move into the cities and that water is landing on the streets and it's washing off the buildings, and it's washing things that are coated in residues of smoke from all the combustion of mystery stuff that goes on and you got industrial contaminants in there. You got two more major problems to do with organic molecules like gas and oil residues and heavy metals like mercury and lead. Great arsenic.

spk_1:   7:51
Great Sammy Hagar song. One way ticket. Thio Haven't met a great song. Great Creek animated movie, too. Probably. Okay, but that's not where you're talking about.

spk_0:   8:04
I'm a fan of heavy metal. What? I'm listening to it. Yes, when I'm drinking it. Not so much

spk_1:   8:10
now. Those of you who wouldn't you know, Spice is a 50 something woman, And you wouldn't think that she's a cz Much of a head banger is she is She likes it crunchy

spk_0:   8:23
that likes it crunchy.

spk_1:   8:24
She likes it crunch. I like a country to know that mellow blab I blast off

spk_0:   8:30
quit wine and sing something already,

spk_1:   8:33
uh, keep the screaming to somewhat of a minimum. Yeah, no. Where yet melodic screaming is not so bad When it's just I

spk_0:   8:45
like guys who can actually sing, not just growl at you, but when she's good, right? But not heavy metal in your drinking water. No, those will drive you

spk_1:   8:53
right out.

spk_0:   8:54
Literally. I've heard some mental possible theories mad as a hatter. Mercury poisoning because they dealt with mercury a lot. A Nero fiddled while Rome burned, he was drinking water that came out of little line pipes. A lot of the upper level Romans who are lead poisoned. It describes a lot of their physical symptoms and the fact that they were half nuts and mentally feeble in general. So many medals, not your friend.

spk_1:   9:24
Now there's a lot of lead in our soil in this in the towns. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, the whole blood gas. The gas was just really, you know, and the fumes came out and they covered the place. And there's still leftovers from the blood gas. Ah,

spk_0:   9:41
and lead paint

spk_1:   9:41
paint There. Paints are kind of a weird deal because they're somewhat encapsulated. Really, the only way you can really get badly damaged by them is by eating the lead paint, because it's so well encapsulated. But it does cause a rescue definitely is. There's an environmental risk there. We have areas of our around our house. Our house originally was painted by or with lead paint that we don't gives for human consumption. Any of the fruit that comes off it will well dio like herbs and stuff. But fruit bearing, we just you probably it would probably be safe, but we don't do it.

spk_0:   10:18
Yeah, it's basically large quantities of greens where you start worrying about that. But if you get those lead paint residues and you mix the soil with solvents like leakage from somebody's storage containers, who knows when? Yes. Then you can read, dissolve the paint residues and get a lot of lead in the soil.

spk_1:   10:41
This is there's a technical were technical phrase for this is called a bad thing. Yeah,

spk_0:   10:48
and out west, especially. You can have streams that look perfectly nice and good but are contaminated by mine tailings.

spk_1:   10:54
Oh, mine till those are problems. In fact, a lot of those clear, beautiful Colorado streams You flow downhill from a blood minor lead mines and gold mines because lead mines and goldman instead to come in the same areas. So, yeah,

spk_0:   11:13
and silver silver often occurs with mercury residues. So, yeah, you don't want any of those things. Filters don't take out particle filters. Don't take out any of the organic chemicals, and they don't take out the heavy metals either. You got to start thinking about other options for how to clean up your water. Same thing with the usual water purification tablets and the bleach treatments. Those are all about getting rid of the microbes, and they do a good job of getting rid of the microbes,

spk_1:   11:47
killing them, not removing them but killing.

spk_0:   11:49
Yeah, and if they're dead, frankly, they're just calories. Not many calories don't give you wrong, but there biological molecules or just calories if you've prevented them from infecting you.

spk_1:   12:03
Now what is that? One of the things that stone cold will work and will want to link this and with Thea with the article that was going along with this is distillation distillation. Stone cold fixes the problem, but it's a lot of work. It takes a lot of energy to do both human energy and fire or electrical or some kind of heating energy. Uh, she wrote an article about this just the other day. So we're like that with your distillation is a. It is a completely safe way of getting drinking water because there's nothing in it because it's vaporised

spk_0:   12:47
almost almost almost close. There's a small number of organic molecules who's boiling. Points are really close to water that give a prize with water, but it's a tiny fraction of the available toxic chemicals. So I just put that in for complete Mrs Sake. Unless it's a excellent,

spk_1:   13:10
you should be in good shape. Unless you're drawing it from a hot spring with a lot of those thermo files in it.

spk_0:   13:24
Those were actually her. Almost two people. So that's okay.

spk_1:   13:28
No, but you have

spk_0:   13:28
microbes in boiling water if you have the right kind of microbes, but they don't cause disease in humans. They just make Yellowstone Park really puns. Really pretty

spk_1:   13:38
there. Really cool, too.

spk_0:   13:40
They are fascinating little organisms, but, you know, they're ah, not a problem. If they're in your order, the sulfur in the water there, we'll make it highly unpleasant to you and potentially toxic, depending on what form it's in. So, yeah, if you're If I was gonna bug in in a city, Seriously, think about getting a still set up. Because if you've got a good power source, setting up a still is a pain in the rear end the first time. Unless you just buy a moonshine still from somebody and you can buy those online. Yeah, but once you've got that still set up, it's not that much trouble to run, but it is very energy intensive

spk_1:   14:25
right now. I will tell you if you just want a simple, easy to use but energy expensive. Still, they're out there. They're designed for distilling. Um Oh, call green on call.

spk_0:   14:48
Yeah, that call moonshine stills.

spk_1:   14:50
Well, some people do, Yeah, electric when I'm thinking of And I don't remember the name of the guy, his name who sells it, But he's one of the guys who works with Jack Spirit Co. He's on his team. He has a really nice small electric, uh, still for making green alcohol. But a byproduct is it makes fantastic clean water. It does use a lot of energy. It's electric, So there's that, but it makes fantastically clean water. You could just keep you could just distilled water wants to be done with it. Whereas the alcohol you get to distill over and over and over again to make to increase security in the, uh, proof. And they're separated from

spk_0:   15:36
alcohol above 180 proof by distillation. Oh, yes. That is the point where the boiling the vapor pressures of the water in the alcohol equal a break. Is that 95% alcohol. Five

spk_1:   15:50
percent water, right? There's something you can. There's a greedy it that you can add to it that will take it on up to the

spk_0:   15:55
It's a water absorber yet, but but don't because a lot of that stuff is actually dehydrated with benzene, which is way more toxic than anything you start with. So you don't. What if you don't think you're going to nab some lovely lab one 100% alcohol source and use that for your party juice? Not that I ever met any med students who tried that. She lied, but you wouldn't. You wouldn't want to do that because the Benz scenes are really taxes.

spk_1:   16:29
But 95% is 30 dude party on the way

spk_0:   16:35
in the lockers out.

spk_1:   16:36
Seriously, dude, if 95% does not get you there, I think you got problems you got. Probably

spk_0:   16:43
Only people who need 100% are the people who are doing special chemical reactions. What we can in the water in there

spk_1:   16:49
and by chemical reactions. We're not talking about making orange score cheese or purple passion. No, that's not

spk_0:   16:55
what we're

spk_1:   16:55
talking about. That chemical reaction is not that I've ever known. Anybody make orange or cheese?

spk_0:   17:03
You are.

spk_1:   17:06
Oh, I could tell you in order. Scorch E story. Well, actually, I don't really remember it. Although I think she does

spk_0:   17:15
know I wasn't there most of the night. I came home to find the aftermath of George Scorch. The story flows up, which was mostly salty. Spread out on the bed asking me why the room kept spinning and refusing to go anywhere near anything orange color that was drinkable for years. Uh ah. Well, well, so, uh, this

spk_1:   17:39
right along?

spk_0:   17:40
Yeah. Distillation leaves the heavy metals behind. There's a tiny fraction in the vapor, but tiny fractions are not. What you're worried about leaves the heavy metals behind you. Throw away the very first stuff to come off the distillation, and you get rid of a lot of the organic chemicals that have lower boiling points in water. And then you keep everything in the middle and you have a very nice purified water. Great job of getting rid of microbes. Um, heavy metals were gone. Chemicals, air gone almost. There's a a little bit of those, but very, very little. I'd feel perfectly safe drinking it, no matter what disgusting source I got it out of.

spk_1:   18:20
In fact, it's probably safer to drink than your normal drinking water.

spk_0:   18:25
It is not very tasty, however, because the salts at the taste and the oxygen

spk_1:   18:29
you could re oxygenated. Salty, Yes, putting salt on drinking water. You can, but yeah. Look at that. You pick your beer bottles of water bottle water from the store. One of the ingredients is probably gonna be solved, not just water, because they reacted. You take the stuff when she basically do what? Shaking it

spk_0:   18:50
if they distill it. A lot of the bottled water they sell is really out of somebody's tapped somewhere. Mystic fancy label.

spk_1:   18:56
If you look at the ones that is purified, though, Yeah. Purified water. Yeah. Don't still have salt in it.

spk_0:   19:02
Yeah, they add it back because people don't like to drink it. Otherwise, I've had perfectly pure water, tasted it. And it was very strange because you don't expect you think water's just what until you taste water. That is just what? And then it's like, Wow, there's something completely missing from this whole experience.

spk_1:   19:24
Okay, now I want to talk about it totally different kind of of drinking water that we haven't. We have talked about before, and I'm going to give you the plus side ever. Really? Watch outside for this. Now. If you have a, um, in your house, you have a dehumidifier. Okay, The water coming off of that dehumidifier is incredibly clean.

spk_0:   19:54
It's re condensed water vapor, right. Says basic process is still in.

spk_1:   19:59
Having said that, what happens is when it starts to collect, it goes into this collection thing and his collection things sits with water in it until it's full or until you have did. And then you take it out and I'm teaching you good again, over and over and over again. That collection thing may well be nasty with all kinds of, uh, organic life in it.

spk_0:   20:30
Also, the coils themselves of where the vapor re condenses to drain out to be a discarded in the dehumidifier. Those are not cleaned for human consumption if they're just trying to build a dehumidifier,

spk_1:   20:44
right? So the

spk_0:   20:45
cattle kinds of solvents and stuff on the outside

spk_1:   20:47
of those So what you do if you want to reuse this water for human consumption, is you take that And then you dumped that through your Burkey or whatever filtration you have, and you're gonna have a very good source of water. You're not gonna have any of the any of the heavy, wet ALS or anything like that.

spk_0:   21:03
Well, it'll take out the microbes. You won't have much in the way of heavy metals. It might still have some organic molecules in there.

spk_1:   21:09
Put it out after filtering

spk_0:   21:11
Burke ease. Don't take out all those

spk_1:   21:13
or whatever filter you're using

spk_0:   21:17
now. Carbon filters will ads or bah lot of organic molecules, so they're really improve taste and color. But they don't absorb everything, and they don't absorb heavy metals very well. So the carbon filters that used to clean up the water for your fish. I don't really reliably make the water safe for human consumption

spk_1:   21:41
or those tap water filters that you use.

spk_0:   21:44
Yeah, they're the same thing. They're taking water that's already possible and just removing particular components that people find objectionable of the taste like sulfides from the what do they call him? So for Wells, the name is escaping me. But groundwater itself were contaminated in a lot of places,

spk_1:   22:05
right? Especially in southern Syria. Yeah, Yeah. Now. And also they take out. But, you know, if he actually takes up the flow rate or not

spk_0:   22:14
Ah, yeah, Florida and chloride or effectively removed by carbon, which is one of the reasons they use them both for fish and for pre pre treating stuff you're gonna treat by reverse osmosis.

spk_1:   22:25
Now, I'm telling you, we're not getting into the fluoride debate on three b. Y. We're not doing. You want to talk about a debate where people get dramatized really mad over it.

spk_0:   22:38
Yeah, I'm not going there

spk_1:   22:40
because, you know, here's the bottom line, this for it. I see it. There's lots of places on the Internet that you could debate, that there's not a shortage of places on the Internet where you could debate the value off off Florida's ation. Fluoride is evidence of water. Coordinate whatever. Go. And we would like to encourage you all to use those sources to get your debate non because we ain't doing it here.

spk_0:   23:13
Expect to convince exactly. No one

spk_1:   23:15
that's your bottom. Why, yes, I'm sure you have a great argument. Go over there and make it. Yeah, we're not We're not playing. We

spk_0:   23:23
get on there, but yeah, it removes full rides and chlorides reverse us. Most is, by the way, is an excellent way to take everything nasty out of water and make it very safe to drink. But I don't really consider it a prepper option.

spk_1:   23:42
No, we have We have Rex I have over are supposed to system installed in her house. We finally just disconnect. It was 21 pain in the butt to keep running. It needed maintenance all the time. It was very expensive in water usage, Yes, and very energy. Inefficient.

spk_0:   24:01
The displaced disposal system as well. And the membranes have a limited lifespan. They require serious pre treatment or they're ruined even quicker. You have to run it through a carbon pre filter, for example.

spk_1:   24:14
Then you have to clean all that stuff out all. I mean, it's it is a paper. We got it for a fish tank. We got it for a good reason. We were in the process of the star. We never did actually get the salt water thing going. We'd love to have some water fish, which are a lot of were

spk_0:   24:30
Yeah. We realized they would just die when we took off on vacation. So,

spk_1:   24:34
yes, we want to do

spk_0:   24:35
your job.

spk_1:   24:36
That's what we thought was Our goal was to do a reef. Hello? Agrees I'd still like to do a re someday, but not

spk_0:   24:42
well, Yeah, when we're home or Yeah, but not now. Yeah. So reverse osmosis makes great water. But I don't consider it a proper thing because it's too fail prone and to resource intensive reach stuff that's hard to get in an emergency situation.

spk_1:   25:02
We took a really, really good reverse osmosis system. Install it. And I would say it worked about half the time because just needed maintenance constantly. Yeah,

spk_0:   25:16
so not really a proper thing,

spk_1:   25:18
you know? Not really. For everything. What? Did you see that sign? Fireman supper tonight? They're eating fireman. Why in the world,

spk_0:   25:26
I I think the firemen are frying fish and selling you the fish. Ah, well, it's a local volunteer fire department. They can't eat the fireman than their houses were burned out.

spk_1:   25:41
That's not nearly such an exciting story.

spk_0:   25:43
See that? Wood says fish fry,

spk_1:   25:45
huh? Yeah, And by fish fry here Missouri. We mean catfish because there's only one kind of fish fried Missouri. Jesse. No,

spk_0:   25:57
You go to a fish

spk_1:   25:57
now, if you're if you're going to. If you go out in your backyard, you could be you could be ah ah, crappy fry. Which all crop? You're really, really good. You could be a bluegill fry. Which passer bass could be vast, but it's probably still catfish, but he is whatever you caught. But if you go to a commercial fence fish fry,

spk_0:   26:19
it's get

spk_1:   26:19
it's catfish in the Mississippi River. Caught now, before you freak out

spk_0:   26:23
or their pond raised.

spk_1:   26:26
I know where they get theirs from here. They're Mississippi River caught that fisherman. He has he be supplies that the guy was a fish truck. He splits all these people commercial fishermen before you freak out. The cleanest section of the Mississippi River is between Burlington, Iowa, in Quincy, Illinois,

spk_0:   26:48
which is where this guy fishes.

spk_1:   26:49
Yeah, and so it's actually a very clean section of the river because there's just not very, very little. There's very, very little industrialization. And frankly, you know, you could say what you want about the government and the e. P. A. It is a lot cleaner than yesterday. Yeah, we could tell that because we have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of eagles that are actually beautiful looking implying, and they're not dead lying on the side of the room eating the poison fish. So any two

spk_0:   27:23
water purification tablets and leach kill microbes for chemicals? Well, they actually get to add some not toxic ones, but somewhat on plays. Unpleasant taste, England's. And for heavy metals they do not a thing. So again, that's a good microbes solution. But it's only a microbe solution.

spk_1:   27:45
No, we've talked about this a couple of times, Horan podcast. But here's something else to consider. If you're stuck in a situation where you're having to get water out of the ditch, your out of somebody's backyard pond or something like that, I know where you're getting it from and know what's been put on the ground. If you're in a mugging situation, the chemicals people use in the yard to be extremely dangerous to drink,

spk_0:   28:12
pull it off the ditch of that guy whose lawn is already with dandy lions and stuff because he refuses to put chemicals on it much better to drink his water than the guy with the putting green. Oh,

spk_1:   28:27
never never, ever, ever get it at golf. Ever get it from a golf course ever?

spk_0:   28:34
You would not believe how toxic there run office,

spk_1:   28:37
and we've mentioned it before, but people do. But golf ball diving have to wear full, has been scuba suits. You're such is wrong now. Then there's pool water. Okay, Pool water is kind of a different kettle of fish because it's got a lot of chemicals in it,

spk_0:   28:57
and it's probably got some residue of human waste in it, too. Let's be honest

spk_1:   29:02
right now. Pool water is weird because, you know, some of that stuff is really toxic to humans, and some of it isn't. It kind of depends on what you put in the pool. So if you're going to put a pool, do a pool and you are thing okay, that pool is going to also be my family is emergency water supply because that's a realistic thing to d'oh. Watch what kind of pool shock you're using. Don't use the stuff that basically used the the chlorine chlorine ACL or I chlorine chlorine I get. I get

spk_0:   29:43
chlorides the ion of

spk_1:   29:45
Don't use the don't use the water of all the extra. It'll kill your ingredients. Yeah, we're just This is the side. We're not doing a pool thing.

spk_0:   29:54
I'd also keep a carbon filter. Don't run the water through to get rid of the bulk of that. Because I put a lot in there.

spk_1:   30:02
Yeah, Also, another thing, too, of course. Obviously keeping cool for non possible. I've been washing your hands and stuff like that. That would be fine. Yeah, but you still, you know, short

spk_0:   30:14
term flush solution works fine.

spk_1:   30:16
You say for washing hands works fine. But, you know, honestly, you will have some human waste in there, Probably.

spk_0:   30:23
Yeah, but if you've also got all the if you've got the right level of cool shock and stuff in there, it's no longer going to be infected.

spk_1:   30:32
Yeah, pools were just kind of like

spk_0:   30:35
I I don't believe in 100% purification of water under most circumstances. Anyway, most people are not gonna cheat that, so it kind of concentrate on what's really gonna bother you. What's not. Anyway, if it was me and I was gonna have to use surface water first, I'd have something that, ah kind of filter that I knew would get rid of everything down to viruses. Why don't you just always go with a filter that takes out viruses? The finer the filter is, the more it's gonna clog up in the shorter its life span is gonna be. So you got to make a trade off. But I'd make sure I was getting rid of viruses. If I was using any kind of surface water from anywhere near city, I'd make sure I had something to reduce the organic chemicals. If I can't do a still, then I would probably have a carbon absorption filter. Those do you need to be gotta change the carbon from time to time and you don't really know when necessarily. So you got to keep up on that. I can't tell you one either. So I don't know how much junk is gonna be in your water. That still leaves you with heavy metal problem. But heavy metals were kind of just a problem in distillations. Really? The best answer for that one and not having him in the water in the first place. There are other treatments you can do that will settlement them, and then you can filter them out. But That's a more elaborate kind of solution and not one that's usually followed. If you do live near the ocean and you don't have a lot of rain where you are so water is a problem. Except you got all this beautiful salt water as long as you have power and support and stuff to run the reverse osmosis system River sauce most. This is a good way cleanup, salt water. But distillation also works.

spk_1:   32:34
That's good to know because a lot of people don't live that far from salt water.

spk_0:   32:39
Yeah, most of the world's population lives pretty close to salt water. In fact,

spk_1:   32:43
that would not be us. No, no. We live very far from saltwater marshes. The pity we like the ocean. It doesn't care one bit about us, but we like the Oh, yes, yeah, The ocean really doesn't care even a little about salty and or spice. So Okay, now you have it. You have our thoughts. You have are opinions. So go forth and drink clean, drink, clean, underwent score cheese or just right out