Harry Miller

have are worth fighting for, not just at a local level, but at a international level. And that's why we went and did it. I was assigned mammal at birth, but I identify as a fish. Don't miss species me motherfuckers. So if your god is offended by a little bit of mockery or a little cartoon, then screw your god because I'm not interested in a god like that. Somebody had a a non crime hate incident called against them because they were whistling Bob the Builder.

And, the person over the wall who was Polish heard them and took it as a racist insult.

English far right, lambophobic action. Since then, we've organized protests across the country, London, Manchester, Leeds, even in their 1,000 amount of fraudsters. There is no such thing in this country as a Muslim. Free, dummy, Robertson. Welcome to my latest edition of my podcast, silenced. It's called silence because the authorities continually want to silence us. To silence us, they bring in hate laws or different legislation. You've all seen up in for a lot of court cases. Lost them all.

I have the great pleasure of sitting down with the gentleman now who won a huge case to compete against their attempts to curtail your free speech, Harry Miller.

And I take everybody as I find them. And unless I'm sitting down with a criminal who is engaged in criminality as we speak, I'll talk to anybody, mate. But that said, I think a lot of what you do is fantastic. Thank you, Harry. My ex wife will tell you what I've done. Do you wanna meet you?

So many times people get a victory against the establishment, which is what you had, or against the police in in such a way. But I wanna get on to first of all understanding just at the start because I've seen you. I've seen you on the news. I've listened to you. I've watched the work you've done, but I wanna know who you are. So first of all, Harry, where were you where did you get brought up? I'm I'm a Sheffield lad. Sheffield born and bred.

not long enough to reach any sort of rank. I was just a lowly PC, which is quite funny because when I when I go on the news and stuff, I've been I've been called everything from the superintendent of Scotland Yard to, you know, high flying officer from special branch. None of which is true. I was a lowly PC 372 from Humberside.

But all I needed was 2 2 e's in order to get into the College of Richmond and York St. John's at the time. So having having been aware that the that the that the, the bar was so low, I promptly made sure that I achieved it. So that was that. So I I I had a you know, I came from a sort of an upper working class, lower middle class family in that my my my mother was an Avon lady

from Lancashire. My dad was, an engineer mechanic who ended up being a salesman and then ended up running a a depot for Volvo Planting Machinery and then starting his own little business back in the 19 eighties. So that's me. And I went to a very large a very large working class school. I played rugby. I enjoyed myself to an extent. I wasn't I wasn't a standout anything really. I mean, I was I was a pretty good actor,

And I was a very poor rugby player but in a very in a very, very good team. A very good team. So, pretty good actor. Did you do acting? I did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was How did you charge? Yeah. Yeah. I was I was at school. We were very big on we were big on our school, Exfield Comprehensive. We were very big on on, drama. We were very big on rugby, and I did I did both. So I was, I was leading the boyfriend. I, I sang

and danced my way on stage on that. Yeah. Yeah. I was in I was in Charliesown. And then, I was Thomas and Becky's in Murder in the Cathedral. Okay. So that that that was that. But all of that You got any videos there? No. I haven't. All of all of that came at a cost of my academic career, which was, you know, skin of the teeth stuff. I didn't put any effort in at all, really. I always figured that I was bright and that I could get I could get by by winging it,

and making a very little amount of homework go a long, long way. So that was my sort of MO for the very well, certainly until I was sort of in my late twenties, I suppose. When I was in my, when I was sort of late twenties after I'd left the police, I decided that I wanted to make some money. So I set up a a business,

buying and selling plant machinery, large large earthmoving equipment. Big diggers, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Big Volvo diggers, excavators, all that sort of stuff. And then I I ended up buying a very small failing company at the port of Lymingham that unloaded, bought cargoes from ships. So I bought I bought that company. Ships?

Ship ships bringing in shipping containers full of merchandise and everything. No. No. No. No. It was bulk cargo. So not not stuff in containers. So it was things like, coal, biomass Okay. Scrap, grains. Loose loose flowing cargo rather than cargo that you would put in a container. It was that it was that sort of thing. So I turned around this very small, very failing company. And over the sort of 20 year period, we ended up turning over

about 5,000,000 quid a year. I ended up employing about a 100 people. And we were very, very successful. But our success business wise was based on on importing coal, handling imported coal, all the coal that that powered the power stations. Now, obviously, in around about 2015, 2016, coal took a well, it dropped off a cliff, in terms of its its usability and popularity with the with the new green laws, etcetera.

So from 2016 onwards 20. Yeah. The the the the coal consumption in the UK for power stations, fell up a cliff. And so the demand for our particular business started to wane. And it was it was at that point I thought, well, I don't particularly wanna get involved in in the eco side of things, the green side of things. We worked very we worked 365 days a year, 24 hours a day. That's just the way shipping

is. So I was ready for, I was ready for a break. You've done what? 20 years is this? 20 years? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 20 years. 20 years of yeah. Yeah. Exactly. 20 years of that. So, I was ready for a a break and I was just wondering, what to do. And it was in 2019, where my future was sort of decided by for me when the police came knocking at our office door

looking for me because Do you run a big business? Police had turned up at the house. Yeah. Police have turned up at the business. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Before? That well, as it happened, I was I was out at the time. I was at Tesco's doing a bit of shopping for the missus. And I got a phone call from, the guy who was my managing director. And he said, oh, h. We've had the police here. I said, alright. Now, obviously operating in large plant machinery,

there's any number of things that we could have done wrong that the police might want to have a word with us about. Generally speaking, traffic violations or possible accidents or or what have you. So imagine my surprise, when I rang the the police officer back. A fellow called PC Gull. He introduced himself as PC Gull from the community liaison branch of homicide police, which is my old police force.

He said, are you Harry the owl of Twitter? I said Harry the owl? Yeah. I am actually. Owl because I'm a Sheffield Wednesday fan. Okay. Yeah. Are you Harry the owl? I said, yeah. I am. He said, alright. Well, there's been a complaint. I said, right. What about? So, well, you've you've tweeted some stuff and there's been some concern by a a a third party that, that the trans people in your place of work may not be safe.

against by me. I said, I've been running this business since before the Equality Act 2010 came into place, And not once have I been challenged on the basis of that act nor on any of the acts that preceded it. I said, I think you're talking absolute bollocks, mate. The trans people aren't safe at my place of work. He said, well, that's the complaint. And he said,

we've got, we've we've got we've got 30 tweets here that suggest that you're transphobic. And it's on that basis that we that the the the complaining party says that you're a danger to the trans population. I said, right. Okay. I said, so let's get down to brass tacks. I said, is anything that I've tweeted criminal? And he said, no. I said right. I said so what have I tweeted which if I'd gone just that little bit further, it would have crossed the line from non criminal into criminal.

And he said, well, there's a limerick. I went, fucking limerick? Pam Ayers writes limericks. I don't write limericks. I don't know. You retweeted the limerick. I said, oh, right. Okay. Limerick is a poem. Yeah. Limerick's just a shitty poem. Yeah. I remember it. It said, your breasts are made of silicon. Your vagina goes nowhere. And we can tell the difference even when you're not there. Your hormones are synthetic. Now let's just cross this bridge.

What you have, you stupid man, is male privilege. It's not even a limerick. It's it's a it's a shitty piece of feminist doggerel Yeah. Really. But as for the sentiments It's a shitpost. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As for the as for the sentiments, I I stand by them 100%.

I've not committed a criminal offense. He said, no. No suggestion that you have. I said, so why are you why are you why are you on the phone? Why are we speaking? And he said, I need to check your thinking. Oh, boy. That guy don't know. And I said I said to him, I said, let me get this straight. And he said, you're you're a police officer. Yeah. I've not done anything wrong. No. And you need to check my thinking. Yeah. I said, have you any idea what that makes you?

He said, no. I said, look. George Orwell's 1984 is a dystopian novel. It is not a police how to manual. And the reference just completely straight over the set. Police play. So, again, he he went on and on and on. We had a conversation that lasted over 30:30:35 minutes. During which he told me that even though I'd not committed a crime, I now have this thing against my name called a non crime hate incident, an n c h I.

Oh, well, that sounds pretty sinister. A non crime hate incident. What the hell is a non crime hate incident? So just put that on the shelf Did they? Did they? For for a minute. And I said, why do you feel the need to contact me? And he said, because without the intervention, it will escalate. Like, but it won't escalate, will it? How can a limerick escalate? What's what is a noncrime? If I commit if I keep committing noncrimes

over and over again, at what point are they gonna become crimes? Because non crime time a1000, they still have non bloody crime, isn't it? And, you said, well, we're just we're just letting you know on on the, you know, because we've had the the the the victim has put in a complaint. I said, what victim? There is no victim. Well, that's what we've got to call him, the victim. And you're the suspect. I said, the suspect of what? The suspect of a noncrime. Like,

this is just absolutely barking, mate. Completely barking. And then he said to me he said this to me. He said, what you've got to understand, mister Miller? He said, sometimes in the womb, a female brain accidentally grows the wrong body parts, and that's what being trans is. And I went Who the fuck are you? I went, you have gotta be. You have got you cannot believe that. You cannot believe that. He said, oh, yeah. I've been on the course. I've

What's quango mean? It it's a it's a arm's length government pseudo government body that operates on behalf of the government Okay. Called the College of Policing. They set down the codes of practice. They set down the the operational procedures, etcetera, etcetera, for the entirety of policing in England and Wales. And in 2014, they developed this thing called the hate crime guidance. Now, this was the result of

contemplating the McPherson report. The McPherson report, of course, was the report into the the the murder of Stephen Lawrence and the subsequent investigation of of the murderers and the failure Of the Yes. The the the failure of the police to prosecute. And what it said was that the police were institutionally racist. Now, on that basis, what the College of Police decided to do was not look at the police, but look at the public.

So the police decided the College of Policing decided that certain speech that the public make, even though it's noncriminal, if it's critical of trans ideology, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, religion, then regardless of evidence, it must be must be recorded as a non crime hate incident. And the guidance said it must be recorded as a non crime hate incident, even by a third party making a complaint, and even when there is no evidence of hate.

So you can have a non crime hate incident that doesn't involve either an incident or a victim or even any hate. But somebody's decided that what you've said is ideologically unsound and the police were being forced to record it against the individual. So me tweeting, retweeting somebody else's limerick.

Did the person who who wrote the limerick questioned? Do do you know? No. No. No. They they they didn't go they didn't get questioned at all. Now, what was interesting is I put in a subject access request to find out what the other 30, things said in, and it took them 3 months for them to reveal that. Now, during that time during that time, I spent a lot of time worrying myself stupid. Particularly late at night, you know, when the lights are off, the house is quiet. I'm thinking,

did I get pissed up and say something really stupid? Did I get pissed up and do something? In the other 30 trees. And then You can tell you because you're thinking it's not My family and my family are saying, but but you must have said something. It's gotta be something more than that Limerick Harry. It's gotta be something more. I'm like, I don't know. I I I don't think so because that's not the person I am. I don't go after individuals.

The only time I go after individuals is when they're individuals of note, activists. I'll go after them. Of course, I will. But I don't go after individuals. I never have done. So 2, 3 months later, I eventually got back, the the stuff from the subject's access request. And I couldn't I could not believe it. One of the things that I'd said was, I I was assigned mammal at birth, but I identify as a fish. Don't miss species me motherfuckers.

So this was this was viewed as hate speech, which which without intervention was going to lead, to genocide. In another instance, I'd said quite simply, Sheffield women know the difference between lads and lasses. This was classed as hate speech.

In another case, I remember I remember it to this day. It was one Saturday afternoon, and I was watching Gillette Soccer Saturday, the football results coming in. And I'd also noticed as I was scrolling that there was a Sarah Brightman concert on on Sky Arts. And so I was flicking between the 2 and I realized that this wasn't particularly manly on me. It wasn't doing my sort of footballing credentials any good at all. So I just did a tweet where I put,

switching between Sarah Brightman and, and the football. Proof positive that I'm genderqueer. That's all I thought. It was a skit on myself. Yeah. This was classed as as hate speech. So we decided that this was this was absurd. We also realized it was dangerous because the police said that they would reveal a non crime hate instance. They would keep them for 6 years check. And they would reveal them on an enhanced DBS check.

So that an enhanced DBS check is it's it's when you apply for a job that involves some form of vulnerable Children. Children, students. Do you want to foster a child? Yeah. Anything like that. Now the chief constable for 6 years, could reveal your non crime hate incident

Okay. And then down in the t and c's right at the very bottom, it say it it it it says categorization. Crime, non crime. Now hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. If you're an employer and you and that lands on your desk, you're not gonna read the small print. You're gonna see crime report, Harry Miller, suspect, hate, and you're gonna throw my application in the bin.

So that that was that. Then I did some research with the the Daily Telegraph, And we discovered that by 2019 between 2014 and 2019, 2014 was being when they enacted this hate crime guidance. 2019 was when I I I, you know, uncovered it all. There have been a 140,000 people with non crime hate instance against the name. A 140,000

people. That included So as police officers taking up their time, look with your case, on a 145 1,000 of instance of bullshit. Yeah. That included my cofounder of Fair Corp, Sarah Fillmore, the family law barrister, who'd done a tweet that said, my cat's a Methodist. And somebody had recorded that as a non crime hate incident, because, get this, by comparing Methodists to cats, you suggest that like cats, Methodists jump into other people's gardens and shit and piss on the cabbages. Seriously.

Seriously. They recorded a non crime hate incident against Sarah Filmore because she said my cat's a Methodist. What was her job? She's family law barrister. Wow. Family law barrister. Other people, somebody had an a noncrime hate incident, called against them because they were whistling Bob the Builder. And, the person over the wall who was Polish heard them and took it as a racist insult.

That itself becomes a secondary hate incident committed by the police. Because it is the job of the police to believe the perception of the victim.

Yes. Exactly. Because what's happened is the Equality Act was designed in 2010, I think, with good intent with good intention. It was to prevent positive and negative positive and, and passive discrimination against people with certain immutable characteristics. What's happened is we've gone from protecting the person with the characteristic from discrimination to certainly in the case of trans ideology and Muslim ideology to protecting the ideology itself.

So it's no longer enough that we don't discriminate against a trans person. Now what we must not do is criticize trans ideology. And it's no good any longer that we don't discriminate against the Muslim. It's getting to the point where we must not criticize the religion Islam either. That's what's happened. There's been an anthropomorphism from the person protecting the person, and that's that sound to protecting the idea of that person. And once you start protecting ideas and ideologies,

then I think you're in deep, deep trouble. So that's the reason that they did it. Now, what else is interesting about the 2014 guidance is this. It says a decrease in hate crime is not an appropriate target because it may lead to the demotivation of officers. Hold on a

They they seem to think that a hate crime was not being vocal about social justice. So if you were silent about black lives matter, for instance, then that itself was a hate crime.

and she hears footsteps behind her. And her unconscious bias tells her that those footsteps are male. So as a result of that unconscious bias, she takes precautionary steps to get herself out of harm's way. I said, surely that is unconscious bias working in that woman's favor. They said,

well, let's just turn the picture. Let's just let's just say that there was a black person behind her, and she'd taken those steps. That wouldn't be right, would it? Said, but it wasn't a black person. That's the only reason why doesn't make a difference. I said, this is absolute this is absolute nonsense. Well, they weren't having it. They weren't having it at all. So we the police are training people to find hate within the community.

Cheshire Police, last year, they appointed the Rainbow Cafe as a hate crime reporting center. I got the training details for that through, an FOI.

Ignoring somebody is how is ignoring somebody a hate crime? In what possible world is ignoring somebody a hate crime? They're looking for hate where it doesn't exist. This is the equivalent of the religious nutters who find Jesus in a slice of toast. They're looking for hate absolutely everywhere. They're looking for everywhere. We go back to my friend, Sarah Fillmore. My cats are Methodist. Hate. It's hate.

They're looking for hate everywhere. And the reason they're doing it is so that they can justify putting resources on behalf of politically favored groups and resisting Pushing ideologies and and Pushing yeah. Pushing back against ideologies Countering ideas. Against that. Yes. That's the only reason for it. That is the only reason for it. Now when I was at the when I was at this the Staffordshire,

hate crime champions course, the hate crime lead who was, I think, was a chief inspector came in. We've been looking at hate crime statistics over the last sort of 10 years. And there's a there's a general trend upwards. And I suggested that that part of that, at least, was down to better reporting.

And he said, yes. Yes. We I acknowledge it is partly down to better reporting. But then he made the astonishing claim that only that they think that only 12% of of actual hate crimes are reported, which means that there are millions of hate crimes every bloody day if you believe if you believe it. It's not true. It's simply not true, Tommy. North Yorkshire police on their website Who said this? This this was the this was the chief inspector,

hate crime community lead on the Staffordshire hate crime champions course. League. Now then, North Yorkshire Police, we uncovered. They've got on their website sorry, on their Twitch feed, a claim that says 1 in 12 trans women are murdered. No. They're not. If there are a quarter of a 1000000 trans women in the UK, which is probably about right Is that what they're saying? Quarter million. There's about quarter million. There have been 2 murders in 10 years. 2 murders in 10 years. Not 1 in 12.

So they are they are they are straight up lying. They are manipulating the statistics for political gain. Avon and Somerset on their website site, they claim that they did a survey. And what what was it? 14% of people personally personally know a trans person who's been murdered. Again, not possible. Not remotely possible given there's only been 2 trans murders in the last 10 years. So what are the police doing?

The police are looking to uphold certain ideologies and they're looking to find an excuse to go in hard against other ideologies. That's what's happening.

fight on behalf of the underdog. Always. That's why I'm Sheffield Wednesday fan for God's sake. You know what I mean? It's like I've always I've always identified without. Yeah. Harry Howe. I've always identified with the with the underdog. And one of the things I hate is where people abuse and misuse their power, against people who don't have anything like the resources that the powerful have got. So when when they visited when they visited me,

I was in that unique position of, a, I got a little bit of money. So I wasn't I wasn't worried. I wasn't too worried about the financial implications. I had no boss to tell me. In fact, they said to me, he said, well, Harry, you may not commit criminal offense, but what would happen if your HR department discovered that you were critiquing these things? And I said, I am my fucking HR department, you idiot.

But how many people aren't? Yeah. Exactly. This is the thing. This is what That's the point. Point. That's exactly what If a police just rings up someone else who's talking, that person ain't ever talking again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what what what we said, I got together with a very good very good list of Paul Conrad of Sinclair Law.

We got a good, we got a good QC and we said, look. What's happening here is that police act the the police are are acting in such a way that it's creating a chilling effect on free speech. It's creating a chilling effect on police speech. So homicide police said, look. All we're doing is follow following the national guidance.

So we said, okay. So who's published the national guidance? The College of Policing. So we said, right. We'll take them to court as well. So we applied to the high court for judicial review against the chief constable of homicide and against the College of Policing. We had our hearing in, November 2019.

2, if I had to remortgage my house, then I would have done so. I would have found the money one way or another. Yeah. You were pissed off with them. But but but overarching all of that was this cannot stand. Yeah. Like, they cannot win. We cannot have we cannot have a government quango department called the College of Policing, who have got a carte blanche duty to go into people's homes,

people's social media to check their thinking. Because, of course, that's what they said to me in the first place. We're here to check your thinking. It cannot be right. It can regardless of the cost, I've got to fight this. Because I'll look I'll look back at, our forefathers and as recently as the second world war. You know, a lot of brave men lost their lives in the 2nd World War. And those that didn't lose their lives lost their hearing, lost their sight, lost limbs.

It was terrible. It was a terrible, terrible 6 years. Now the interesting thing is we didn't need to fight that war. We could've we could've appeased Hitler, and Hitler would've left us alone. We went to war in Europe because it was the right thing to do, because we recognize that the freedoms that we have are worth fighting for, not just at a local level, but at a international

level. And that's why we went and did it. So I thought, you know what? I wanna be in the tradition of those great men and women who fought in that war and previous wars. What is the risk to me? I'm not gonna lose an arm. I'm not gonna lose a leg. I'm not gonna lose my life. I may lose money. I may lose a load of money. I may have some sleep besides. But if I want to be in that great tradition, I've got to fight this. I don't have a choice. It's as simple as that. I will fight it. So we fought.

When the ruling came, February February 14, 2020, it was an interesting ruling because the the high court said that homicide police had acted like the stars in the checkered and the gestapo.

made you like the the charging the stars of the checkered and and and the gestapo. That's alright. So we said, well, that's just illogical. That can't be it cannot be that that the guidance is sound, but following it is not sound. That can't be right. Now what I think happened, Tommy, was this. I think the high court judge bottled it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think he gave me a massive win filled with this great rhetoric

about homicide police in the hope that I would go, thank you very much. That'll do me, and we'll leave we'll leave the government alone. But they they

they misjudged me. It was never homicide that I was really after. Oh, is that So as I was who's making the It was the national guidance that I was after. And who's Always does so we we went to the national guidance? Who's behind the national guidance? Well, it it it yeah. Yeah. So we took them we took them. We went back to court. We went to the court of appeal. They heard they heard our case

in, 2021. Can I ask when you won that first part but not the second part, would they have awarded you all costs? It was split. It was split. Okay. Yeah. So you didn't lose half the money that you spent at that point. Yeah. So it was all held it was all held in advance. No no money changed hands as it were at that point. No. So we went back to the court of appeal. We were in front of 3 very, very senior judges, and we won. We got the College of Police guidance

struck down, struck down as being unlawful. Now that prompted in the college of policing and in the government. So This is massive news. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember the time this was Salila Braverman, who was very much very much on our side, she came out very early on and said that, the College of Policing needed to get their house in order. In order to encourage them to do that, she issued new statutory guidance

That all is fantastic news. It's great news. Yippee. You know, now can I go home and just lead a life of leisure? No chance. Because it seems that the police haven't got the memo. The police continue to harass people based on their political views. As recently

as this year, I don't know whether you came across the the the case of the the Newcastle United fan, the lesbian. Who's lost her job? She was she's been banned from football for 3 years. So that's my case. Yeah. Yeah. That's my case. Yeah. So what happened there was, Are you representing her? Yeah. Yeah. You supporting her? I'm I'm representing her. Okay. Go on. Yeah. Go on. Tell me. So what happened there was, I I I just got back from Australia to my daughter's

my daughter's wedding. This was November.

Got a phone call. There's a lesbian in trouble from Newcastle. I rang her up. Well, just just before you so after this, just so we can understand why someone's ringing you up, when you won this case, you've gone and set up an organization to help people who are under attack like this? Oh, yeah. No. Be actually, before I before I won the case, I set up an organization called Fair Cop. That's at we are Fair Cop on Twitter. Which is? What what we do is we challenge. We exist to challenge police forces who get over enthusiastic

about,

I rang up the police officer concerned. And I said, look, I'm representing, Lynn Lindsay Smith, the name of Blaine. I said before you, Harrison, have you considered the Miller ruling? And so what's that? I said well, that's the ruling that that tells you how, and what you can and can't do with respect to policing people's free speech. No, I haven't. I said, have you considered the new statutory guidance issued by the home secretary?

No. So have you considered the new college of policing guidance? No. So what do you do? I said right. So before you do any of that, what I'm gonna do, mister PC, is I'm gonna send you all 3 of those things so that you can have a look at them and then decide whether you still think it's a good idea to harass this Newcastle United fan. What they did, they looked at the guidance and said screw Harry Miller. And they went and threatened her with arrest that night. That night. Took her

in. Took her in under threat of arrest. Yeah. Because if you don't do your voluntary interview, we may gonna arrest. Yeah. We may. What they're asking is I want an interview next week. It's a play of words. Yeah. Yeah. It's a voluntary interview, but if you don't volunteer, we're gonna arrest you. But we may. That's not yeah. That's not a voluntary interview then, is it? That's an interview. That's a that's an interview that has been brought about by coercion.

So I said, right. Go into the voluntary interview because if you go into voluntary interview, you can take your phone with you. You can record it. I'm in next week. She yeah. She recorded the whole thing. It was not one of the thing one of the things that they they accused her of was that in her bio, she'd said, I said, I'm LGB, not LGBT. Well, yes. She is. Yes. She's lesbian and gay. And they said, do you not think that could be offensive to some people? Like, well, why would I care?

I'm LGB. I'm not LGBT. I'm LGB. Simple as that. So that was the that's the criminal side of things. Now what we what we've said is that even the individual police officer has got it badly wrong. But we don't think it's the individual police officer's fault primarily. What we say is that police officer acted in the way that he did as a result of the culture of that police force, Northumbria, which is led by chief constable Vanessa Jardine, who is an out and out trans rights activist.

Absolute fanatic. And what we're saying is that the individual Oh, right. Of the tree is being pushed into the at the bottom of the tree He's under pressure. Is influenced by the top of the tree, the chief constable. So what we've said is we are looking to take the chief constable to court a judicial review because we say it's her fault that the police officer did what he did. Now then there's the Newcastle United element of it. So Newcastle

So they looked at her Twitter feed and banned it. But guess how they found it? Guess what else they did? They got hold of the Premier League, got advice from the Premier League. Who said yeah? Yep. Worse than that, the Premier League got hold of a Singaporean spy agency who they employed as a third party agent to track her down, find out her history, find out where she worked, find out her entire social media history, find out where she walked her dog, found out everything

about her and handed the file to the Premier League who handed it to Newcastle United.

to show how how how diverse a forward think we are. Yeah. That's what's happened. Is she still banned now? Are you going for a process to challenge the club? Is she going through a process? The Free Speech Union are Toby and the Free Speech Union are handling the football side of things. And Faircock, myself, we're handling the police side of things. Police side. Okay. So where's that going with her? With the with the police side of things? Well, we think that Are you going to say that? We're gonna go we're gonna we're gonna apply, I think, for a judicial review. We've got to meet our,

legal team. It's not it's not straightforward because what's happened is the the chief constable or we we thought complaining. The police, the police and crimes commissioner for New for Northumbria

This girl's done nothing. She's lost kind of football. Her free her her feeling that she probably does. Absolute lunatic fan, mate. Her feed is just filled with the new class. United. Yeah. That's outrageous, man. Well, the PC the PCC has said, we've questioned the chief constable. The chief constable had nothing to do with the arrest, so it can't be her fault. Now hold on a minute. That's exactly what the mafia boss says. That's exactly what the godfather says.

When everybody got killed it can't have been it can't have been the mafia boss because he was he was on the golf course. Nothing to do with him. We're saying no. No. No. In this culture in this culture, the police know how to behave and how to carry out their boss' wishes without direct instruction from the boss. So chief construe chief constable Vanessa Bar Jodding is operating like a mob land boss. And the minion police constables

what do you think it does to every single person that knows her or close to her in their exercise and their free speech in the future on this issue? Right. Well, first of all, people go, well, you must have said something.

who says, why can't you just keep your mouth short? You know, don't you you seem to care more about this than you care about our love life and blah blah. Can you not see what it's doing to the family? So there's all this vast amounts of pressure. And then what happens is, of course, you get the thousands of trolls who come out and try and spear you every single day with things that you said 10 years ago or At the same time, though, is what it does to her.

1 night at her home. And about 2 in the morning, when the wine was flowing, she just happened to mention that she didn't believe that humans could change sex. She was counseled from her own dance company the following day. Counseled from her own dance company the following the following day. You've you've got Nick Buckley in in in Manchester. Manchester mayor? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He ran a very successful,

charity for the homeless. He just happened to come out and say that he thought that black lives matter was, was a Marxist movement. He was canceled from his own charity the following day. And it was a Marxist movement. Of course, it is. Of course, it is. And that's what that's what the police are doing. They are seeking to create

a chilling effect. An atmosphere of fear. An atmosphere of fear. So people don't fully know what it is they can and cannot say. They don't fully understand the rules about who can report what to whom. And so they take the easy way out and keep their mouth shut. Just last week, following the,

Now, in Scotland, they've changed that. In Scotland, from the 1st April onwards, if somebody takes offence because you happen to criticize the person or the ideology of 1 of the protected one of the protected strands, then you can be the subject of a criminal investigation. In law, in this country, it happens Carries the idea and carries

panic. Yeah. Hate crunch. Yeah. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. Hate crunch. Yeah. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. Going through the roof. Yeah. Look at the statistics. Hate is going through the roof. And by the way, this represents only 40% of the true amount of hate crime that there is out there. Hate crime is absolutely everywhere.

the the non crime hate incidents are held at local rather than national. Say every individual So it's quite difficult. Now now one thing that is interesting about this is remember I said earlier on in the podcast that, the non crime hate incident report was was came out to the McPherson report, which criticized the police and told the police to check check their thinking.

What's interesting is we we did, freedom of information requests to all police forces to find out how many non crime hate incidents had been recorded against their own police forces, members of the police force. And that is interesting. Go on. The Metropolitan Police, a big fat zero, not a single one. So they've not applied

it's it's evil. It's evil, Tommy. It's it's selfish. It's evil, and it serves a political agenda. It serves a political purpose. That's why I am so against police forces wearing rainbow flags. That's why I'm so against the police marching, marching in pride, for instance. Because these things are political. They they show very clearly which side of a political divide you are on. They show where your sympathies

lie politically. And our police force cannot, it cannot, it absolutely must not give any indication whatsoever of its political allegiance. None. Because how the hell can it? If it's policing you, you want to know It's non biased. You want you want to know that the police are not looking at you as a as a white nationalist supremacist or what have you on the basis that, you know, that that's who you're associated with.

They need to be approaching you without fear and without favor. They need to be approaching everybody without fear and without favor. And you can't do that if you load up your uniforms and your cars and your press releases and your flags with one side of a political debate. You simply can't do it. That's why confidence in the police is shot.

But then how well, on the chilling effect you talk about, how much as we go continue forward are the results of these non hate crimes or this hate legislation. How much of effect is it gonna have on the general public speaking freely?

I can have ill will for whoever I like. I can dislike for whoever I like. And if you think about antagonism, our entire judicial system is based on antagonism. Because what we have in court, we have the side for the crown and the side for the defense, and they go at it. It's antagonistic. In parliament, we have an antagonistic parliament. We have the government benches, and we have the opposition benches. And what's interesting is they're separated by what? Two sort lengths.

Two sword's lengths because everybody recognizes that this side hate that side. And what we can't do, we can't get rid of the hate. We've just gotta manage the hate. So we we so so we have a speaker who'll who's there sitting on his wall, like, shouting order order. It's Trump's fault. And we've got and we've got 2 sort lengths apart because you cannot eradicate antagonism and hate. You can't do it. You cannot eradicate

ill will and ill feeling and dislike. You simply can't do it. These are natural human emotions. I go into a huge amount of trouble, when back in I think it was 2020, I noticed that the police were going real big on report hate for this, report hate for that, hate hate Every football stadium every football stadium over the town now is about this. And I put I I put, hate is an everyday human emotion like love, envy, and jealousy. The police

should only be interested in hate where hate spills over Into criminality. Actual criminal violence. We say no to criminality, but we say hashtag say yes to hate. I put that, and it got me into a lot of trouble. A lot of trouble. People going, you can't say that. You can't like, why not? Why not? I am all for being antagonistic because our our our civilization depends upon it. Parliamentary and judicially.

I could dislike who the hell I like for whatever reason I I like. So I'm gonna say yes to hate until you change the definition of hate into something that I can get on board with, like Incitement to hatred. We already have we already have a law which is about incitement to hatred. Yeah. So we've already got something that prevents the crime. Well, don't try and don't try and criminalize a feeling. Don't try and criminalize antagonism and dislike. You can't criminalize that.

You can't because all that will happen is that is that you'll start picking on using it as the basis to pick on certain groups and ignore other groups. And protect other groups. And protect all them. And ignore them. Yeah. Protect them. And so that's why I that's why I say it. You know, I was very pleased, Tommy, actually, to find that, I'm I've made the cut in this year's hope not not hate Oh, have you? Thought. Yes. You did as well. Yeah. No. I mean, I mean, in the past, I've been in it only as a they knock around with people like Harry Miller. Well, now I've got my own section, which I'm absolutely thrilled about. Well, since it's a Harry. Yeah. Yeah. I've got my own section. So yay. These are a winner. Finally. Yeah. People should if anyone anyone out there, you ever wanna know who you should be listening to, just pick up Hope Not Hate's yearly report, and that will tell you who you should be listened to, basically.

And so I believed him, you know, for real liberal. Yeah. He is fucking liberal. He's great. Yeah. He is. He's very liberal. He's really smart. He's very, very smart. Yeah. He switched on.

He's great. And I've just stopped listening to people telling me who I can and can't talk to because I'm not gonna do the job of the police for them. Having gone this far with free speech, I'm not gonna now limit my limit who I speak to and chat to. Right? Until somebody could tell me what you have done that's so bloody evil, then I'm gonna talk to you. Told you. Speak to my ex wife. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Look. Just,

apparently, Quentin Tarantino was once asked, what did he wanna be when he grew up? And, his response was, you know, I always used to watch all the films and all those sort of all these people would come and they'd be picking on people. And then one day they came along and they picked on the wrong guy, and I want to be the wrong guy. And so we said, well, that's what happened with homicide police. They out of all the people in all the world, they picked on me, and I was definitely, most definitely the wrong guy because I was in that position where I think it's You can fight. Yeah. Yeah. I can fight. Fight. Yeah. I can fight. People aren't in that position. I've got the bollocks for it, mate. Yeah. Most people aren't. Yeah. I've got the, and I understand that. Yeah. That's why I think

if you can't fight, if you're in a position where you've got a mortgage and wife and kids, you're at the start of your care career rather than the end of it, then I I fully understand. In fact, I would encourage you to keep your head down. I really would. You know, put your pronouns in your bio if you want to. Sign on the dotted line. Do what you've got to do to survive. But those of us who can

resist Now I'll just resist. Resist for you. Yeah. What you can do, if you can't resist, you can throw some money into a crowd fund. Support us. You can you can share you can you can share a few podcasts and bits and pieces around. You can you can sort of engage in passive resistance until such time as it's your turn to pick up, to pick up the banner and go charging into battle.

So so that's it. They they they picked on they picked on the wrong guy, Tommy, and they still they're still picking on the wrong guy, because I still I get right in their faces all the time. And I put myself between people who were in people who were in trouble with the police. I'll just stand between them and the police and say, come and get me. I mean, I did that with that the royal green jacket. I've talked to you about it down in Hampshire. Yeah. What happened in Hampshire?

When was this? This was 2 this was 2 years ago. We got a we got a phone call from from a a a Royal Green Jacket veteran. So 25 years with distinction in Ireland, and and various other places. And, the police knocked on his door once in the morning because he'd do you remember that that trans swastika that was going around?

They they they said that, he committed he committed an offense. That was the first words out of his mouth. You've committed an offense. He said, have I come are you here because I've committed a crime or a non crime? He said, you've committed a crime. Right. What's the crime? The swastika.

We either take you to court and you end up with a criminal record or you give us 60 quid and we send you on a, on a Diversey course. Yeah. Far cost. The trading course. Yeah. And he went, well, I don't think I've done anything. He said, oh, yeah. You've committed a crime. So hand over £60 and, we'll send you on

a course to get you Re education course. Re education course. Yeah. So he's asking a question. Yeah. So he said, look. Can I have a look? Can I have a bit of time to think about this? And they said yes. And they said, well, can you call back next Thursday about 5 o'clock? And you went there. So I was there with the film crew. Oh, I love it. Lawrence Fox and the film crew. And at the at the at the appropriate

You know, you you because he'd mentioned my ruling the previous week. Who else? The green. Yeah, the royal green jacket. And they and they'd they'd said bizarrely well, that ruling doesn't apply unless you've got a letter. Like, what? Makes no no sense at all. And he'd said, but I'm not the one that retweeted that actually. It was Lawrence Fox. They said we don't care. It's sure that the complaint is against.

I said, sign this. I said, and what I'm gonna do, I said, I'm either gonna sue sue your chief constable or you can give me £60 now. And I'll put it on the reef test. I'm gonna send you on a fair cop, reframe. For that, I'm gonna throw you some sandwiches. How about that? And they went, what? We're not doing that. I said, well,

that's it. That that that's the way it's gonna be. And, they said, no, we're not talking to you. This gentleman has gotta come in. I said, he's not coming in. He's not talking to you. That's the end of the bleeding story. End of story. He went, look, if he doesn't come in, we're going to have to arrest him. I said, well, to arrest him? You're going to have to fucking arrest me then.

They said, are you being serious? I said, yep, absolutely 100% serious. You better call for backup because you ain't man enough to do it. So they called for backup.

333 right vans turned up. We had a we had a stand up, all of it filmed, all of it filmed being live streamed on Facebook, and I'm just standing there like this. And it's funny, there's a picture of me with my eyes around that, and you can see the wrong guy. I'm not there. And at one point, I go I said, you big lad, you look like you've you've got the cahoonies to a recipe. Are you gonna be the one then? They wouldn't do it until there's nothing. Yeah. So eventually eventually, they they arrested me. Eventually, they arrested him. On what charges?

What charges were you arrested? They well, they arrested me for they all arrested for obstructing

obstructing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And they arrested him because he'd refused to give a voluntary in because he refused to give a voluntary in for you. They were using what was it? Section 127 of the communications act. Now they let they let him go really quite quickly because I think they realized We fucked up here. Yeah. We've we've we've we've streamed it. When you're live streaming this, how many people watched it?

the police. For the green jacket? Yeah. The royal green jacket, eastern and everything. And I did mine for wrongful arrest. And I did also I I I got them for armed robbery because what I said was that when they took my fingerprints and, and my DNA, they did it under coercion. Because I refused to give it to them without getting you know, know, I said I'm not gonna give it to you. And so, well, if you don't, we'll ping you down and pull out your chest hairs. And I okay. Well, I'll give it.

So I said that, this was armed robbery, in that they'd taken my property, my DNA, under immediate threat of violence. And that violence included the fact that they were armed. So that that means the definition of armed robbery. So I I sued him for that. And you won this Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I won. Yeah. So can we just the the point I want people to understand here is with the green jacket and him contacting you,

That's that's the way British law works. Now, and then on the balance not on the balance of probability, beyond reasonable doubt then dictates whether or not there's a conviction. Now the police don't like that system because it very often works against them. So what they're doing, they've developed an alternative system. It's called alternative justice.

Rather than taking you to court, what they do is they just pronounce that you're guilty. They just say you're guilty of this, and and the courts will find you guilty. We'll save you the embarrassment. Sign on the dotted line here, which which says, I admit my guilt. We'll put you on a on a hateful list for the next 2 years. We'll send you on a course, and then you can thank us very much for doing that. And the average person who doesn't want the court case, doesn't want the media attention,

That's it. That is they call it alternative justice. I call it no justice whatsoever.

that you were operating lawfully. And therefore, me stopping you arresting him, I wasn't obstructing a lawful engagement with a police officer. I was doing my duty as a citizen. Now fuck off.

state involvement into every area of our lives. And the way that they're doing that is through the police. And the way they're doing that is by generating this thing called aid crime, which doesn't exist. Which is really pushing and blowing up everywhere. It's all about hate, stopping hate. We must stop hate. Yeah. If they really bother, why not why not why not have a, a a thing against envy? You know? Let's stop envy crimes because envy leads to envy leads to

someone's Yeah. All sorts of or or or a jealousy. Yeah. Let's have let's have an anti jealousy campaign because there are so many women murdered by, by jealous sources. But let's have an anti jealousy campaign. They don't have any of that, do they? They have this indefinable thing called hate crime. They can't justify it. They've no idea what success looks like. In fact, they don't want success. It's baked into it's baked into the guidance.

A reduction in hate crime must not be seen as a legitimate target. Why? Why not? Can you imagine a murder squad where the target was not to reduce murders? That'd be nonsensical. Everybody would say that's that's fixed. Or a robbery squad. They do. So we don't want to see a decrease in robbery. But with hate crime, they don't want to see a decrease in hate crime because that will rob them of their political clout. Of the ideology as well. Yes. Of them That will rob them of their political clout.

Because without the crime, they have no justification for going after the thought. And that's it. That's what that's what they're that's what they're doing. They're saying it all begins with a thought and speech. So if we can nip the speech in the bud,

if we can nip people meeting together in the bud, then we can prevent the crime. But there's not a scrap of evidence. None. No. Do you think it's but do you think it is actually about that? Do you think it do you think it is about preventing the crime, or do you think it's about preventing criticism, preventing free speech? It it it is purely about And allowing certain ideologies which they've chosen to flourish in our society without criticism. Yeah. If it was about if it was if it was truly about crime, they would have approached it from a scientific basis, and they would have tested it. They would have tested its efficacy

and gone, oh, this is working. Let's have a bit more of this. And see that they'd see the crime that the hate crime figure is going down. But when the target is for them to go up, and that's the target for the hate crime figures to go up They're looking for it's got to be because they need the hate crime. That's why they're that's why they're training people in finding hate. That's why yeah. Yeah. There there's there's a sex shop in Glasgow, a sex shop in Glasgow that's been that's now been designated

as a hate crime reporting center. So if you have an if you have an issue with, I don't know, police officers, decorating their uniforms with dildos during Glasgow pride, you can go along to this, the the sex shop and report it as a homophobic hate crime. And they'll record it and tell the police the police will do something about it. That's what it's all about. It's all about it's all about But this is an attack. But this is an attack on this is an attack on conservatism.

It's an attack on orthodox traditional values, traditional understanding. Traditionally,

That that men are men and women are women. And that you can't men can't become women and women can't become men. Now

by sitting in the meeting, and they also didn't follow through on the actual crimes. Yeah. The dropping the car wasn't a crime. The actual crimes are the threats to murder the boy that dropped the car. Yeah. Exactly. And this is the police showing fear and favor. This is the police showing very clear

But the guy has had to go into hiding and has been in hiding for 3 years With his family. Now. You're with his family. Protective custody. Yeah. Protective custody. Protective custody. Now, what should have happened is that the police should have escorted that teacher back to school the following day. And provided an escort, an armed escort if necessary, to make sure that that teacher was at his desk for every day of term.

That's what should have happened. And would the police took the side in effect of of the the violent Islamic gangs who were threatening his life. They they whisked him away and hid him, put him in a safe house, But that's not enough. What do you think is the politicians' response to that? The politicians what what what response? The politicians have been absolutely silent about it because they are afraid

of offending Islam. It's as simple as that. And there's a reason they're afraid of offending Islam. Do you know who Samuel Patty was? Yeah. Yeah. They're afraid of offending Islam because Islam has a tendency at times to be violent.

I've got loads of Catholic friends. None of them took it personally. Does that mean you hate them? No. But people are completely understand this. Absolutely. They it does not mean that I hate them. It means that I hate the institution that they happen to that they happen to enjoy. Have you ever seen the Book of Mormon at the theater? Okay. So here's another great example of 2 tier policing. In the book of Mormon, which has been running it was it was written by the guys from South Park.

Okay. It's been running I think at the Prince of Wales Theatre since about 2013, 2012, something like that. And it has scenes in it where where where the Muslims are dancing with Hitler and Jeffrey Dahmer and being terrified terrorized by a Starbucks coffee cup because, of course, Mormons, don't like don't like coughing.

It has a scene in it where they're where where where they're singing about fucking god in the eye. There's there's an entire riff in there, about how the cure for AIDS is to have sex with a frog. Okay. Can you imagine a similar musical I see. Called the book the book of Mohammed? Where you've got Mohammed dancing with Tony Blair and George W Bush. No. Can you can you imagine it where there all the Muslims lined up doing a song of down sax about fucking Allah in the eye?

It wouldn't happen. It couldn't happen. The police wouldn't let it happen. And if by some miracle it did get on the stage, it would be the the the everybody would be prosecuted and the police probably would have been blown up by the intermission. That's the difference. That's why we talk about 2 tier policing. It's right there. I'm all for I'm all for skits about religion. I'm a Christian. I'm a committed Christian. I'm a Baptist.

I love the life of Brian. I think it's a fantastic film. And I think any any religion has got to be man enough To face scrutiny. Yeah. To face scrutiny and to face mockery. Because if your god is so offended if your god is offended by a little bit of mockery or a little cartoon, then screw your god. Because I'm not interested in a god like that. Not at all. I say, I'm a committed Christian. Love Jesus. I don't care at all if you want if you wanna mock, mock my religion.

Not at all. Don't mind in the slightest. Because I think in a secular society, all religions, all ideas should be capable of being mocked. That doesn't mean that we're mocking the disciples, the followers, the believers. It means we're mocking the institution and the ideology. And we've got to be allowed to do that.

win. Now I admit it takes balls to publish a cartoon like that in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo massacre. But we can't have the police telling us not to do it. If we don't do it, it's because we've done our own risk assessments, and we wanna stay stay on the side of caution. It cannot be because the police have somehow said, well, he shouldn't have caused offence. And because the police haven't correctly policed those communities who are making those threats.

It can't be for those reasons. It can be because you personally

exhibition, and I knew people would think I was mocking him. Yeah. Then when I've done it, I was gonna show, actually, this was created by a Muslim. This was created by a Muslim. This was created by a Muslim all over the world. Okay, Harry. You are a certainly the wrong guy for them to mess with, but you seem like a man on a mission, to protect freedom of speech.

If people are watching this in fact, first of all, before I get into how other people can follow you and support you, if someone's watching this, what advice do you have to them if they've said something and their HR department, their work, or the police are interfering in what is legitimate freedom of speech? Okay. So if if if if it's to do with,

That's gonna cost in excess of tens of 1,000 if Yeah. It's gonna be impossible. Any of these cases. Yeah. 100 of 1,000. Yeah. 100 of 1,000 in any this is the cost of fighting for free speech. Yeah. How can someone watching this support that? So again, we we will keep you updated.

And and I've been up for the. I wish I wish I wasn't. I wish I could just sort of,

I don't flog myself as a as a brand. You know? I'm not looking to I'm not looking to sort of become a, you know, a minor celebrity or anything like that.

I applaud you on your Yeah. Thanks for having me, Tommy. I've enjoyed it. Thank you. I've enjoyed it as well. I've enjoyed it. I hope you've enjoyed it. If you've listened to this, these are the important discussions that you understand what's going on with the encroachment and the attack on freedom of speech. Ironically, we're called silenced. The every single thing you've we've just discussed

is about silencing you, not silencing him or me. It's about silencing you. So I'm grateful for your support for giving me the opportunity to sit in these positions, to hear these stories, to awaken the public. So like, subscribe, share this everywhere, and you can be part of the resistance by simply sharing these discussions,

logging on, supporting Harry, supporting their campaigns, and supporting freedom of speech. Thank you. Cheers, Harry. Enjoy the night. Yeah. It's great. Thanks, Harry. Enjoy the night. Yeah. Cheers, mate. Carry on watching for more interesting guests. I'll talk to anyone. I'll debate anyone. I'll hear anyone's story. If you want to help me belong that way, it's not free. I need your support. If you can support my family,

that gives me my peace of mind. It means I can continue to do the work I do. I appreciate every bit of support as do my children. Gives me the ability to fly them out here to see me, so I can stay in constant contact with them. I'm deplatform and I'm censored, so I need you I need you to share this content and make sure you stay tuned for upcoming weekly guests, interesting guests, exciting guests. I'm Tom Robson and this has been my podcast, silenced.