Shelby Rogers: Why rankings mean nothing and a great tip on the backhand

Hey everyone, welcome to the 43rd episode of Baseline Intelligence, the podcast designed to make you a better tennis player and a smarter athlete. I'm your host, Jonathan Stokey. Today's guest is Shelby Rogers. Shelby has reached career highs of 30th in singles and 40th in doubles on the WTA Tour, having reached the quarterfinals of both the French and U.S. Opens. She was also a member of the U.S. team that won the 2017 Fed Cup.

On today's episode, we discuss building self-belief, how to adjust to different surfaces and balls, and some technical advice on the back end. So sit back, relax, and prepare to become a smarter tennis player. All right, Shelby, welcome to the pod. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. It's been a long time planning.

I feel like I've been harassing you through text messages over the course of the year, but I've been excited to get you on because I moved to Mount Pleasant about three years ago, South Carolina, and you are from the area. And I actually remember you. When you were really young, because I used to hit with Pagula when she was like 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. And I remember your name kept coming up in draws. So what was it like for you? Like, when did you start playing tennis?

in this area? How did you get going? You know, what did that look like for you as a young player? Yeah, so my favorite city in the world, Mount Pleasant. I started tennis when I was about four years old. My older sister, Sabra.

wanted to do a tennis lesson. We both did dance at first and I went with her to her tennis lesson. because I wanted to be just like her. I did everything she did, followed her around everywhere. And we both loved it. We loved the lesson. We wanted to come back and we just kind of stuck with it. And then I played my first... like a tournament, if you want to call it at like seven, I think.

And just progressed from there into, you know, junior tournaments, state tournaments in South Carolina, the infamous Belton and Southerns. I didn't play too many nationals. We didn't travel a lot. It was quite expensive. And so, yeah. just kind of stuck around where we could drive for the most part and then started playing some ITFs and got a wild card into hardcore nationals, won that, won the wild card into the U.S. Open and just progressed from there.

You started with a love for the game, but did you always kind of want to be a pro or did that just kind of pop up when you started going like, hey, I'm like pretty good at this actually? So when I was a seven or eight, rather, I started working with my coach at the time, Brian Minton, and he worked with me until I was 18. And he always said,

Like we're doing this. We're going to, you know, we're going to be pro. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to be pro. That sounds so fun. But at the time it was like, you just kind of said it, you know, and it was like a fun thing and it was a cool dream to have. And then when I started. Getting a little bit better in the juniors, winning some tournaments. Loved that feeling and felt like it was something, yeah, that I was pretty good at. And I really just enjoyed doing.

always wanted to spend more time on the court. And then I really started to believe it. But I think the people around me were also... not looking at me like that's a crazy dream you know why are you even saying that everyone around me even my parents my sister like yeah that's cool like why not

So it was really helpful to have those people around me be like, if you want it, go do it, you know, and not really like discouraging me from it. You decided to skip college tennis. And so you went straight to the pros and I'm not sure if you. went through the recruiting process or if that was something. But when you decided to skip and now you're playing the best women in the world, was there like a mental hurdle?

Or a challenge that you knew right off the bat, like, wow, I'm going to have to overcome this if I want to hang with these girls.

So I graduated high school and I did pretty well at a few pro ITF events right around that time. At the time, there were like 50 Ks and 75. All the numbers are different now. I had gone through the college process, gotten all the letters, done the recruiting, went on a few campus visits.

I don't know, the teams and the campus and the lifestyle and the training. I just was like, this is not for me. I don't think I could thrive here. I just had something in my heart that told me I wouldn't do well in that. in that environment I don't I can't explain it it was just a feeling I had and like I said then I did well at a few tournaments and I called my mom I was like I'm taking the money and she was like

what? She was a little bit worried for sure. And so I promised her I would get my education. That was really important to both of us. So now I have my degree that I completed online in psychology and I'm very happy with the decision I made. It was just at that time, I knew 100% in my heart that I wasn't.

going the college route I wanted to play pro tennis I had to give myself a chance I could always go back to school if I wanted but it was just a very strong conviction within myself and a lot of players don't have that and kind of you know go back and forth but I was very fortunate to be very sure of myself at the time.

You know, you're 18, 19. You're doing well in those like lower level events. But, you know, you've gotten up to top 30 in the world. You've made the quarters of slams. You've been on a winning Fed Cup team. You've had so much success, but it's not like it happened overnight.

You know, you weren't at age 19, 20, just shooting to the quarters of a slam. So what was the difference? What is the difference of the level between you as a 19 year old and then you when you kind of started reaching the top of the women's game? Gosh, I feel like it's still a learning process, too. But at the beginning, it was.

The belief was a big part for me, believing that I could reach a certain level and be as good as I wanted to be. From there, it was developing weapons within my game. I always had a pretty big serve and forehand and just continuing to develop.

ways to win points to end the points was huge because when you get to a certain level everybody's good from the baseline everybody can make balls all day everybody can move fairly well you know you can expose weaknesses here and there but everybody's fairly good so it's like

You have to develop those intangibles as well, the mental aspect. I worked really hard on the mental toughness side, got super fit just so there's no excuses when you're in a third set or when you're in a long battle because those things can wear on your mental.

like in a mental battle as well. You know, if you're like, oh, I'm not, I got to end points quicker or whatever it is. So it's just the little like 1% things that start to become more important the higher you get because everybody's so good at everything.

How did you, you mentioned getting that belief in yourself and you had a team around you early that helped you with that. But was there anything you did specifically? Because that's something a lot of players struggle with. And it's everyone, I guess, gets that differently. But how did you build that belief in yourself?

Well, I think for me, it was focusing in on the practical aspects of my training. So preparation, nutrition, recovery, those sorts of things. You can gain a lot of confidence from just being prepared and knowing you've done the work and that you're ready. I also started understanding a little bit more that Everybody has some sort of weakness. Everybody's bluffing something. Nobody's perfect. Everybody makes mistakes. And once you understand that, okay, we're all human, like there's some...

When you're kind of starting out, I felt like there's a certain ranking number or everybody has a certain person or threshold or milestone where they're like, they have this kind of different aura around them. Like you see players in a different light, but no, like they're still tennis players.

They're still human. They still struggle. They still get injured. All of these things are the same, regardless of what ranking you're at. So just understanding that, you know, kind of telling myself, why not now? Like, why not my game? Why not me? and understanding, yeah, that everybody's kind of dealing with something. It just made it more tangible, I guess, is the word. Yeah, that makes total sense. So now you're 31, is that right?

30. 30. I don't want to rob you of a year because 30 is a big one. So you're 30 now and you're this wise WTA tour veteran. If you could go back and coach yourself at age 18, right when you're starting, what device would you give yourself? Well, for sure, what I just mentioned is that, you know, you've got the game, you're good enough now, just keep working, kind of.

build that belief in that confidence, like you belong. Cause I think it took me a few years to really feel like I did belong on tour that, you know, Oh, I'm from Charleston. No one's ever done this from the city. I don't know what I'm doing kind of thing, you know, and just. really be like yeah but I'm here I'm doing it and and enjoy that I think yeah that would be one of the pieces of advice I would give myself because I did a really good job of

trying to stay in the moment and enjoy everything, enjoy the traveling and the experiences, not taking anything for granted, being super grateful. That was easy for me because I was so happy to just be at all the tournaments I was at. But just.

you know standing up a little taller being a little more confident like yeah i'm here that's my locker and i belong here so you we're recording this uh it's the week after wimbledon and so you were there for the european swing i think you played five events over there three clay two grass but it's a long time to be on the road what are the challenges specifically when you're on the road for a long time and you're playing these events what is the most difficult

part that these people probably don't know about? For me, being away from home, from family and friends and not sleeping in your bed, being in a different location all the time.

Don't get me wrong, I love going to new cities and experiencing new cultures and the food and meeting new people. You lose kind of that. And I'm such a homebody. So you lose those routines that you have at home, you know, where you kind of can do similar things every day. But you get used to that. I would say another thing is just the travel, the logistics side of it. actually the cities that we get to, but the canceled flights, the delays, the bags being lost.

waiting in the airports, checking into hotels, you know, all that stuff is, it's just like, if we could just teleport from one place to another, it'd be perfect. Now, who does that for you? Like if you, let's say you take an L in the round of 16 or something, are you?

on the internet immediately being like, okay, I got to get this flight or do you have someone that can help you with that at least? Yeah, so my agents help me with that some with hotels and things. I honestly love doing the flights myself.

you know, I have the statuses to kind of show for it, which is, I guess, a good perk of all of it with the hotels and the airlines. But yeah, I don't I don't mind booking my own flights, but the hotels and, you know, transport, setting up times, things like that. Yeah, my agent will.

help with that which is huge so each tournament you go to you know even if it's the same service you played three tournaments on clay over there the clay is not always the same sometimes it's slower it's quicker it's you know slicker whatever How difficult is that to adjust week in and week out? And then like, what are some of the things you do each week to kind of prepare for those specific conditions? I think physically in the gym, you can do a few things, you know.

kind of activate some different muscles and get something stronger to, to help you transition from surface to surface. But for me, it's just getting on them and trusting it and trusting my body in the corners and different parts of the court where, you know, maybe on a big point, you're going to have some.

awkward happen and you don't want to be thinking about like your footing really um so just practice and spending a lot of time on the surface the clay is tough yeah because they're they're all a little bit different especially if they if it rains or if they resurface the clay or add more or put more water than the day before. But that's tennis. We're constantly adapting to the balls every week, the weather, the surface.

the location, altitude, time differences, jet lag. I mean, there's a million different variables in tennis that I think make it such a unique sport and such a challenging sport. It's really difficult to get used to that lifestyle and just constantly adapting all the time. You have to be really comfortable being uncomfortable. Yeah. How much will you vary your tactics? You know, you have your normal game that you'd like to play.

let's say the difference between a very slow clay court and a very fast clay court or something with altitude, will you vary your tactics or do you kind of just go out there and go, this is what I do. I'm going to see how it works on this particular surface. Yeah, ideally, that's the plan, right? You want to go to your strengths first and then add some different tools from your toolbox after that. If you're on grass, maybe some more sliced serves or sliced backhands.

On clay, you know, you're going to have to dig out a few more balls and trust that you can get some more balls than you would on a super fast hard court. And so, yeah, I think I always try to go to my strengths first, then pick on their weaknesses, then add sort of tools that the court.

will give back to you as well, kind of favor the surface. Yeah. You know, you got a tournament almost every week you're over there, you know, you're obviously competing and you have to get ready for the next event, but you... also i'm assuming have to work on improving something you know whatever happened in the tournament you want to get something better or like you said maybe keep adding a consistent weapon that you might have been working on for a couple months how do you balance that out

on the road when you're practicing like what does a practice look like maybe on the second half of the week if you're out of a tournament already preparing for the next one yeah it definitely changes quite a bit there's especially You know, in the slams, for example, we'll have a day off in between matches sometimes.

Sometimes that looks like hitting for 30 minutes and recovering if you had a really tough battle. Sometimes it looks like going an hour and a half because you felt, you know, this serve wasn't working and you really just want to feel the ball. Sometimes it looks like fed ball where you just want to. you know, hit the ball clean. Sometimes it looks like doing more movement.

So that's where you pay your coach to help you with that too and adjust with you as well. Because like I said, there's so many variables in tennis that can change. So from day to day, like you could have a practice plan for the full week and every day looks different when you show up. because you wake up with a stiff neck or, you know, I mean, it could be anything.

The beginning of a tournament is definitely, you know, a lot of point play during the tournament is kind of maintenance. And then after and in between events is where you can kind of add things or work on things, watch some video, recalibrate kind of what went wrong, what went well, what we can keep doing. doing and just a little bit better each day. Do you have a favorite practice drill that you like to do?

I love fed ball. I just want to hit the ball right in the middle of the strings. And like, if I'm feeling the ball clean, which like, to be honest, like my timing is pretty good. So I just really like to, you know, get the feel on the ball. And I think it's a little bit underrated, to be honest, like fed ball is OK, but it's hard sometimes because you get no break either. So it's a good workout. Yeah, I would have to say fed ball is really, really fun for me.

Love that. So Wimbledon just ended and you drew Rabakina first round. Obviously never easy to draw such a great player and a defending champion. A lot of my players, junior or adult, they're obsessed with draws. Oh, I had a tough draw. I had an easy draw. Oh my God, I might play this person in a round.

What is that for you? How important is a draw? How much are you aware of it? Do you just kind of take it match by match? What does that look like for you when you're just preparing for a tournament? I mean, I think that's part of the fun of tennis, kind of seeing the draw and how everything plays out, because any day anybody can beat anybody. And that's the cool part of tennis, too. So I think having that in mind before you look at the draw is really helpful.

And also, I mean, I've... pretty much beaten just about anybody you know on tour exception of a few people so it's like okay let's see what the challenge is today kind of not beating yourself before you go on the court is important obviously there are some draws that are easier than others but but now

I mean, the rankings are so deep, like there are no easy matches. I don't care what their ranking is. I mean, you're fighting for every point and all the girls are super talented. So I try to treat. Most of the match is the same. This one was a little tougher because it was on center court at Wimbledon and it was the first time I played there. So there was definitely a different feeling around that one.

regardless of who I was playing, just the setting is a lot different, right? So that was a lot of fun for me. And I just tried to soak in the experience. A lot of times, too, it's helpful to just remind yourself, like, wow, I'm looking at the draw of Wimbledon and I'm going to play Wimbledon. You know, it doesn't matter who's on the other side of the court. The court's the same size. The ball's the same. You know, you're trying to do the same things you've worked on.

So just treating it as another match is difficult as it might be sometimes. But yeah, that's an important thing. As a junior throughout your whole career, I know for me, I always got way more nervous to play someone worse than me. Like that was like, like heaven forbid I play someone ranked slightly below me. Oh my God. Yeah. And then it's like, if you played someone slightly above you, that's the sweet spot. Cause you're like, Oh, I can definitely beat this person.

But, oh, the pressure's on them. They're ranked higher. Is there anything like that? I know you try to keep it the same, but if you're playing a player like Rabakina, do you fall into the trap of... maybe trying to do too much versus if you play someone who you know is good, but maybe below you, is there a difference there for you? Or have you done a good enough job over the years of literally just going, you know what? I just play the ball the same way, no matter what.

yeah i think my toughest opponent is always myself to be honest and for me over the years i've learned that the rankings are basically They mean nothing. You could have someone and I learned even more to coming back from injury. I was out for over a year on the tour and I was coming back and playing with, you know, a 500 number next to my name.

I know that's not... reflecting of my skill but it's still where you are you know what I mean so like the numbers and they change from week to week like you could win a title last year and then all of a sudden those points come off and you just dropped however many spots and you know what I mean so it's not

really that accurate all the time. So if you put too much emphasis on those numbers, it's going to be a really long season. So it's more for me just focusing on the tactics, getting in the video work, understanding the player I'm trying to play and working that chess game. game when you go on the court not necessarily playing the number but just playing the the the game the opponent you've mentioned video twice and i love video i've always used it

Are you paying attention to the tactics? Are you paying attention to your footwork, the technique? How do you use video to help your game? Yeah, I think all of the above. Video is really helpful for me. Also to just separate emotions from reality. Sometimes when you're on court, you're in the heat of the battle. You feel like, oh, everything's just going against me. And then you watch the video and you're like, hang on. I was a couple points here from.

from her absolutely melting down or whatever it is. It's just a great way of matching up and finding out where on the scale you were on the court. Okay. Was I overreacting? Was I not? hyped up enough? Was I feeling something that actually wasn't really happening? So that part is really helpful for me just to kind of see the facts and to be like, okay, next time in this situation, maybe I can respond differently. Maybe I can think something different.

or tell myself, okay, take a little more time, just little things like that. We're going to finish up with some Instagram questions. These are followers who saw you're going to be on the podcast and they wanted to know your thoughts on some things. Oh, fun. Yeah. None of these are that scary, but they're all great questions too, by the way. I always pick the good ones, but.

This person wanted to know, when you have a big point, how do you decide what your tactic or strategy is? Is it kind of always the same play? Let's say you're serving down break point. You go, hey, I know kind of what I want to be doing. Or do you let the moment kind of dictate what you want to go with? Wow, that is a great question to start with. Well, I paraphrased some of it, but they basically wanted to know how you play a big point.

Yeah. Well, doesn't everybody want to know that? No, I feel like when you watch a lot of the top players. I won't name any names, but there's certain players where you're like, okay, it's break point. You know, 100% they're going kick out wide open court. You know, you know, they're going flat T serve forehand cross, whatever it is. I feel like.

The more you can train those patterns and be really confident in yourself to execute them, the percentages and the stats will be in your favor. So at big points or points when you really need them, if you have your go-to play, even if you don't execute it perfectly.

You're just going to be more confident playing that point. So I think the majority of the time, it's a pretty good idea to go, again, with your strengths first instead of trying to play their weaknesses and doing something you're uncomfortable with. Do you do a good job of forgiving yourself so you have your play and let's say you don't execute it? Is it pretty easy for you to move on in that situation or are you kind of like, oh my God, that's my play? Of course not. It's terrible.

I'm like, what are you doing? You've done this a million times. Why didn't you do it now? No, I think that's the self-talk is a really difficult part of tennis because you have so much time in your mind with yourself in between points on the court, on the changer. You know, there's there's just a lot of time you can.

beat yourself up and um something I try to tell myself is like if that were my doubles partner what would I say to them like how would I talk to them compared to talking to myself so um I think the margins too, you're not going to play tennis perfectly. It's impossible. So it's like forehand cross court is very vague. Like there's a big range of how you can execute that. So it's also being aware of how you're going to evaluate your success on the court.

victory trying to be and I think every tennis player has a level of perfectionism that has helped them be successful but also beats them up sometimes so it's just kind of constantly calibrating that What do you consider your biggest achievement in tennis? Hopefully your biggest achievement is ahead of you. But so far, what is your biggest achievement? Oh, gosh, I would say my biggest achievement. I would say.

This is so lame, but I'm going to say it. Just... being where I am like being a professional tennis player is amazing because it's really cool and every time I talk about it and say yeah at seven years old I said I wanted to be a professional tennis player and the fact that I'm actually doing it is so awesome and I think it's really easy to lose perspective of that. Winning Fed Cup, playing for my country, that's always a massive honor for me, being able to represent.

the United States of America is just so cool. And I think, you know, making friends on tour is awesome. And just being able to play for this long too, because you never really know. how long you're going to be able to do it. It's such a small part of our lives. So to be able to still be out there playing tennis is awesome. You mentioned Fed Cup. Isn't there... Sorry, Billie Jean King Cup. We have to say the right name.

Yeah, it used to be Fed Cup when you won it, but wasn't there, didn't you do like an epic rap or like some, I remember seeing something in the team that you're like famous for. Yes. So when you first.

get selected on the US team, every player has to do sort of a rookie performance, if you will. Some girls have done a speech or a poem. For whatever reason, I chose to do a wrap and just go all out. I really hope there's no video of this, but somewhere there is. And I chose to do it to Will Smith's Fresh Prince rap. And honestly, it was epic. I'm actually really proud of myself, but I was so nervous.

like a dress you know because we dress up really nice for this team dinner and I like put my my hat on and like tilted it to the side like Will Smith and um started rapping and like something happened I messed up or I think I started rapping like the

original song and then the DJ was like off I was like hang on hang on we gotta start over so it was like really embarrassing but then I crushed it I'm not even gonna lie and yeah the team still brings it up to this day like I'll never live that down but every girl has to do some sort of Yeah, rookie performance. And it's been awesome to now watch the other girls have to do it instead of me doing it again. I'm pretty sure you set the bar.

There is a video because I swear I saw it, but I'll probably be like searching for it tonight and I'll like link it in the bio for anybody listening. But yeah, make sure to send it to me if you find it. Oh, man. All right. This follower likes your backhand a lot and they want. to know if there were any technical thoughts that you had that have helped you on that side.

Yes. So when I was growing up, my coach, Brian, that I mentioned, we would do we would use video to compare my strokes to top pros at the time. So he would put my my backhand next to like Andre or, you know. guys or girls, whoever it was, and be like, this is what they're doing, right? This is what works for them. This is why and just really analyze every part like we were crazy about it. And it's not for everybody. But for me, like the technique was something I was super interested in just like

like movement patterns and yeah, just how everything looks. And sometimes now it's like to a fault because I, you know, I want everything to be perfect, but I think it really helped me at the time, um, to just get the technique down where it won't break down or you won't try to.

compensate when you're nervous or under pressure. But thank you for liking my backhand. So to that person, and there's probably many out there, would you then suggest they video their own stroke and then say they look at yours and go, what are the differences? oh, she takes her racket back higher and she drops it here. And do you think it's a healthy thing to kind of compare it to a pro stroke?

I think for me, it was helpful. And again, I didn't just use one person. Like we kind of went over a bunch of different pros because there's a million ways to hit a tennis ball. I mean, your elbow can be a little bit different. And also your muscles are different. Like everybody's body is different as well.

But I think that the general like fundamentals of a swing, you can kind of pick out from every person you watch. But there's also a lot of ways to adapt and not every swing is going to be perfect. But I think, yeah, just the. Watching a lot of videos helpful and just seeing how smooth they are and trying to be able to repeat that over and over. Last follow-up to that question. If you were going to give them one fundamental, which one would it be on the backhand side? Oh gosh. I would say.

trying not to get your racket too far behind you because then you'll be late trying to catch up to the ball. And a lot of people get that when they step too far across themselves with their right leg. Sorry, so I'm right-handed. I'm speaking.

So if you kind of close yourself off and close your shoulder and then your racket gets way too far behind and you end up being late a lot of the time or like this weird thing with your wrist. Yeah, amazing advice. I'm actually acting it out right now. I know you can't see me, but I'm not.

actually doing it yeah you look you look like you've done that before actually unfortunately it's like too close yeah right uh this person wanted to know what is the best piece of coaching advice you've ever received I've received a lot of advice over the years. The best advice I've ever gotten is probably...

Either keep it simple or stay present and enjoy yourself. I know those are really easy, but I overanalyze everything. And for me, like the less I say to myself, the less people say to me, the simpler I can make something, the better it is. I'll tell a quick story to just visualize what I mean. The first time I met Pete Sampras, we were going to do an exhibition together, a doubles exhibition.

I went to practice with him at his house, and we're just talking, like, you know, getting to know each other a little bit more. Amazing guy, but of course I'm going to ask him about the serve, right? Like, what's the secret? How do you serve? What do you do? Tell me everything. And he looked me dead in the eyes and goes, I just threw up the ball and hit it.

I'm like, no, you're kidding, right? You did not just say that with a straight face. Just throw up the ball and hit it. I was like, okay, yeah, and then I'll just serve like you. Okay. But it's so true. The less you can kind of tell yourself and get in the way, the better it is. Just keep it simple. And last question. This one's going to be maybe tricky for you, but I want your best advice for the 4-0 adult player. Oh.

Oh, the 4-0 adult players. Yeah, I've seen how aggressive and dramatic it gets and competitive they are. fierce and the competition is fierce. So I take a lot of inspiration from them. My best advice to you guys, dang, singles or doubles? Where do we want to go with this? I mean, honestly, I'd love if you gave them a mini tip for both, but you can go wherever you want with it.

Okay, for doubles, I would say communication. Number one, communicate with your partner. Let them know what you're doing. I'm still not very good at this on the court, but it helps a lot. Because if you're kind of faking your opponents out, sometimes you can also fake out your partner. So communication for doubles for singles in 4.0, I would say.

Focus on what you can control, because I feel like there's a lot of distractions that can get in the way at that level. And with those league matches and the rankings and the teams and this. So focus on what you can control, especially on the court. focus on your side of the court first and your fundamentals and what you're doing first. Yeah, that would be my advice. Great advice.

Thank you for coming on. Like I said, for the listener out there, I've been tracking you down for like months. So I'm so glad we were able to do this, but you've got the hard court swing coming up and then we'll be watching you at the open. So best of luck on the hard courts and thanks for coming on. Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm glad we made it work finally. And thanks for the questions, guys. Those were great. All right. I want to thank Shelby for coming on.

We really weren't joking earlier. I'd been harassing her for roughly four months to get her on the show, so I'm glad we were finally able to make it work. The technical thoughts on the backhand were awesome, but I always tend to gravitate towards the mental advice that these players and coaches are giving.

The idea and the belief that you are good enough to compete is huge. And I also liked how she said all of the great girls that she plays against have weaknesses. If you're a 4-0 and you're playing a 4-5, try to remind yourself that they also have weaknesses. and that they're beatable. It's just your job to find that weakness and then exploit it. I want to thank you all for listening. I know there are a lot of podcasts out there, and I'm grateful you chose to join me today.

I'm motivated to evolve and improve, so please subscribe if you enjoyed the episode and leave a comment or review so we keep getting better every week. For more, check out my Instagram, at Stokey Tennis, for clips from these podcasts, as well as general drills and tips to help your tennis game. Thanks for listening. I hope you just improved in tennis without even hitting a ball.