Nick Saviano: Finding the joy and passion for competing

Welcome to the fourth episode of Baseline Intelligence, the podcast designed to make you a better tennis player and a smarter athlete. I'm your host, Jonathan Stoke. Today's guest is Nick Saviano, one of the most accomplished coaches in the sport and author of the book Maximum Tennis.

He has been instrumental in helping hundreds of juniors become national champions and has spent significant time coaching Sloan Stevens and Jeannie Bouchard to WTA success. In today's episode, we're going to discuss what he looks for in a player. why kids experience fear on the tennis court, how to develop a strategy based on your on-court personality, and the importance of tennis-specific athleticism. So sit back, relax, and prepare to become a smarter tennis player.

All right, Nick, welcome to the pod. Well, thank you. I'm excited to be here. It's an honor to have you on the show today. You've been involved with state champions, national champions, international champions, and grand slam champions. And so you've seen firsthand what skills and fundamentals all your players need in order to maximize their potential. When you first meet a new student, what's the single most important fundamental that you try to instill in their game?

Well, more importantly is what is the first thing I'm looking for and not so much what I'm trying to instill. And what I am looking for is a love of the game, a joy and a passion that comes when they get on the court. If they don't have that, that's something you want to cultivate. And if they're young players. You have to really team up with the parents in order to create a team that's going to facilitate the development of the joy and passion for not only.

playing the game but then also developing the subtleties of a great approach to competing so you want them really looking forward to and enjoying competition that's a prerequisite to being a great competitor How do you as a coach help that player find their joy in competing? Well, that's a very significant topic. It first comes with the joy of playing.

where they enjoy playing the game, where they associate tennis with a lot of positive things. When children are just starting out the game, you're looking to make sure that they have fun, that they have... success and when you say success success in their development of their skills so they can feel their skills are getting better and then also success in a competitive type of situation and that they also associate playing a tournament or competition with friends and socializing.

and having a good time this is really instrumental when it's done in the first phase of development When you do this, it is such a key component to making sure that they build that intrinsic motivation. which is going to be the driving force for them during that second phase which for females might be 11 12 13 14 15. upwards to 17 18 from for guys it's a little later in their development usually 12 13 and 14 at that second phase when they evolved from the first phase to the second phase

They come to you and they don't want to just play tennis. They want to become players. and it becomes far more serious to them. And so they are driven internally to be the best player they can be. So if somebody develops the foundation that you would call ideal the foundation not only the technical and and basic strategical tactical components but the part about really loving the game loving to compete

then you've got a good foundation for the next phase. But ultimately, the key to becoming a great competitor is one who accepts the fact that they don't control outcomes. and that they really focus on being the best they can be. When I say that, it does not mean that they don't fiercely want the outcome.

in fact they do but there's an understanding or an acquiescence to the fact that you don't control it when you accept that that helps an athlete to flow and they are willing to take the necessary and appropriate chances and challenges that come from a competition so when it's a

unique or let's say a tough situation a match those people are not afraid to lose they want to win fiercely they may hate losing but it's not a fearful situation it's one in which they almost relish and look forward to and those are the ones that really become great competitors So I've heard you speak in the past about the difference between nerves and fear and how nerves are a normal, healthy, positive response to an exciting event.

Whereas fear is something you don't really ever want to compete with. And when I go to these junior tennis tournaments, I see fear all over the place. Can you tell me why you think that is, why players compete with so much fear, and then how you specifically try to eliminate that from their competitive mindset? First of all, with regards to fear,

An athlete can be nervous and that's fine. They can be excited. But when you have fear, it actually starts affecting your visual system where you do not pick up. moving objects as well and as efficiently. That's why when you see players that are really getting tight and scared out on the court, they start miss hitting balls, making errors that they normally wouldn't make at all.

Fear is not something that should be part of tennis when you're competing. Because when you're out there, it means we're playing the sport of tennis, which means life is pretty good. In most cases, we're not playing for life and death. It's not a situation where people, as a general rule, get physically hurt. So it should be a joyous, positive experience where people...

Look at it as opportunity filled as opposed to something that's really has some serious negative ramifications. Having said that, you see a lot of it. junior tennis and much of that unfortunately comes from parents that inadvertently are putting the wrong type of pressure on their their children and it's I say inadvertent

Because when you're parenting, there's not necessarily a manual for parenting every step of the way. There's plenty of books out there, but we're all going through it the first time. We want everything to go well for our children. And very often we start. micromanaging when they get out there on a court we start critiquing all the time wanting it to go perfect well the ramifications of that are

very often that the child becomes fearful of making mistakes. They start having tremendous anxiety about being able to maintain a certain level. You see, when an athlete... focuses in on guaranteeing outcomes. Like some of these juniors who tie in their self-worth, their self-esteem, their self-image with their performance because they see their parents super excited and happy when they win. And conversely, they may be upset or really down about them losing.

The parents are the most important people in a young person's life. So it puts enormous pressure on them many times without the parents even knowing it. So helping the parents to become skilled. at emphasizing that which the child can and should control. Okay, you want to play a tournament? Here's the ground rules. You got to prepare.

you've got to have an attitude where you compete on every point that you show respect to your opponent that you are going to try to play the game as well as you can that you are going to conduct yourself with the kind of class and dignity that you would like now given that these are all things that the player can control So when they have those kind of clearer guidelines, they realize that success, not necessarily winning, success can be achieved virtually.

every time they go on a court and the road to being successful is littered with defeats and mistakes and ups and downs but if you're moving in the right direction then you've got something that's special. When you get the child to understand these fundamental concepts of what is real success, the fundamental truths of life success. Then these are the kids that aren't afraid to reach for the stars. They're the ones that aren't afraid to be challenged. They're the ones that will go out.

And when it's close in the third set, they're looking to see how well they can play, not scared about, oh my gosh, what if I lose? And that's ultimately what you're looking for. And when you see it. You know it. You can tell. They stand out. And unfortunately, they shouldn't stand out. It should be the reverse. And that is unfortunate. Having said all this. It doesn't mean that you're Mr. Pollyanna, where, oh, everything's good and wonderful. You can really push the kids to work super hard.

be diligent to deal with adversity and challenges when they're out there on the court. This is what they're going to focus in on. And when they do that, then you have the foundation of a great competitor and somebody who not only is going to be a great competitor on the court, but they're also going to be really successful off the court.

I have a friend and he's a parent, but not a coach. And one thing he told me that he does with his kids is he only compliments or gives constructive feedback for process. So if his... three-year-old son is playing basketball and makes a shot, he'll say great focus or great effort instead of great job making the shot. And I know that's something I'd like to use in my coaching a little bit more.

I know I've done things in the past where I've steered kids towards maybe thinking about the result. And when I'm listening to you right now, it just seems like focusing on the process and staying in the present is just a really integral part to success. It is key, but I wouldn't diminish the importance of outcome. And that's where a lot of parents will lose credibility. Outcome is very important. However,

It never should be the number one goal. It should be the byproduct. So when a child goes out and prepares well and does well in a tournament, let's say they win a tournament. My response to them is say, you know what? You should be really proud of yourself. That's a significant turn that you won. That's an outstanding accomplishment. You should be really proud. You worked hard. You prepared hard. You fought hard. You did all these things.

Congratulations. I am happy for you. Very different than me saying, I am proud of you. I'm saying. you should be proud of yourself i am happy for you and i am proud of the fact that how you prepared and put in the effort and so on so i'm delineating between the outcome and The fact they stayed in the process, yet I'm not diminishing the fact that somebody has the fruits of their labor and their efforts has also something that should be recognized.

When you're working with a kid, how much do you factor in their personality into what you do as a coach, whether it be tactically, strategically? How does their personality impact what you do with them?

When you get players on the court, they have what I call an on-court personality. And some people, I remember years ago, I played Stefan Edberg, who... for those who've been around for a while they know that he got to number one in the world i played him when he was a fairly young man and i was fortunate enough to beat him in that match and one of the The reasons why I say that, he by nature on the court was very aggressive.

He loved to attack. And if you spoke of them off the court, he's the most mild-mannered, soft-spoken guy you ever want to meet. Interesting thing was, and I wrote about this in my book, is that in the first game, I happened to play a ridiculously good game for me. I was more of a veteran. He was a younger guy. He was number one junior in the world. He was on his way up the rankings. And I happened to hit four winners in the first game against him when he was coming to the net. And so...

He was young, and I was trying to intimidate him a little bit, if you know what I mean, in a good way, to stay back. And sure enough, he stayed back the entire match. And it was exactly the opposite that he likes to play. And so it didn't work out well for him. I happened to beat him very. comfortably on that particular day obviously he went on to win seven grand slams so he's an extraordinary player extraordinary person but the point being every person has an on-court personality and

if you notice that somebody is relatively cautious or when they get out on the court and they they really don't like to miss the ball and they You know, you see they're very meticulous in everything they're doing there. Conversely, you'll see some kids get out there and they just start ripping the ball all over the place and may hit the fence, but you could see they get great joy from it.

You want to build a game around those personality traits and their physical attributes and make it so that they can play their game style, that their core. you develop the core strategy around that and that leads for the player to be much more to enjoy the game far more and the sad thing very often is when you see a player that maybe has some success at a young age, loves to be aggressive, but the coaching doesn't develop the skills.

of the player so that later on they don't have the ability to say transition to the net or uh you know take a ball early in the bounce and rip it and and come forward so i like to make sure That when I'm trying to help develop a child, that I refine their game in a way that does not impede them from playing the way they want to play. What do you do if the player's on court personality contradicts what you think their physical skill set should be?

So let's say you were coaching Riley Opelka and he's seven feet tall. He serves 140 miles an hour. But he says, you know what, Nick? I just love sitting back 10 feet behind the baseline and just grinding. How do you manage that situation when their personality, but maybe their optimal style of play are contradicting each other? Well, it's a good question. And I've had that before. I had one player that was six foot seven and he was very cautious by nature out on the court.

but you have to reconcile it with them by one allowing them to be aggressive but create high percentage principles and targets and things like that so that they know they can play and rip the ball and they're not going to be flying the ball all over the place so you you kind of acquiesce to the fact that they like to be quote cautious but you

refine it in a way where they feel they can play aggressively and not go against the grain by making a lot of errors which they don't want to do then you also want to develop weapons for them again which they can really rely on say like opelka obviously he relies on a serve i've rarely met any player aggressive or otherwise with their on-court personality that doesn't in fact enjoy ripping a serve. So you try to build the weapons within the context of the player's personality as well.

We've been talking about tactics, and I want to know what percentage of your practices are dedicated to technical and stroke development versus tactics, patterns, and overall strategy. Well, it's an interesting question because every shot should have a tactical objective. Every ball struck, every serve, every return, every forehand, every backhand.

The player needs to understand why they're hitting what they're hitting. So whenever I'm even feeding and teaching technique, I always like the player to understand. the nature of that particular shot i like them to understand even if we're hitting just basic cross courts i want them to understand what i call generic tactics which is

You know, the cross court backhand is going to be a higher percentage, lower part of the net, bigger area of the court. When you're trying to play higher percentage, you don't go towards the outer, you know, the sideline. You know, it's more towards if you divide the court into four segments, like I often do, some people say A, B, C, D, or 1, 2, 3, 4.

If you're going cross-court, you want high percentage, you can go to section C, not to D or not to A, these kind of things. So if somebody's hitting a slice, you're working on a slice back. They need to understand the basic concept of why you slice. What are the options? Well, you're usually going to slice when the ball's slightly out of your comfort zone. It's a little bit...

maybe low or short, or you're reaching sideways. And so you're generally trying to neutralize, get the ball to bounce low so it doesn't sit up. It gives you a little more time. The backspin actually slows the ball up. These type of things. So you explain the reasoning behind it. So they understand the basis of, okay.

it's a neutralizing shot or it's a defending type of shot a defensive shot and so every time you're working on technique i like them to understand how it's inextricable to good sound tactics and just digressing for a second I said generic tactics generic tactics would be tactics that apply pretty much to everybody if you're six feet behind the baseline going down the line and trying to rip a low ball down the line for a winner

is a pretty low percentage shot. It's low percentage for Djokovic. It's low percentage for a 10 and under. That's a generic tactic when you're behind the baseline. You want to try to play the ball slightly higher. They do that at the professional level. You want to do it in the 10 and under level. It doesn't really change. Then you have personalized tactics where if you go back to.

say, a big server, you wouldn't hesitate to say, it's a breakpoint, go for the ace. That's high percentage for Sampras, Opelka, as you mentioned earlier. you know, Federer, whatever, they'll go for a big serve. Somebody not as skilled might go for your traditional. you know slight three quarters pace first serve get a good first serve in etc etc so there's personal tactics that apply to people for example Djokovic

has an amazing down the line backhand. So he might rip a backhand down the line in situations for him, it's not really that low percentage, but for other people it would be. Kind of a weird question here, but if you could only choose one, would you rather have a player with perfect technique, but they don't really move that well, they struggle to get in position at times?

Or would you rather have a player that has flawed technique but has great tennis-specific athleticism, can get in position for a lot of balls, and can move around the court very well? Without question, the second one. somebody who has got nice technique and ball striking, you know, the ability to stand there and strike the ball, but doesn't the tennis specific athleticism. which is the melding of athleticism and tennis skill and all of that, you can have a multitude of techniques.

perform at extraordinarily high levels look at nadal's technique on his forehand is not classic if you look at the fundamentals are but he's got five different hitches as he takes the racket back on his forehand, yet he produces an amazing shot. So having somebody who can adjust and adapt and is athletic. and understands how to play the game is far more advantageous and desirable than somebody who just has a good swing path and technique but doesn't have a feel for the game.

So one of the things that I stumbled upon with this podcast was asking my Instagram followers to come up with some questions for the guests. And when I posted a story for you online.

I got easily the most questions of all my guests so far. They really wanted to know what you thought about a lot of different topics, but I've narrowed it down to the top four. Number one. This player wanted to know, what are some of your core principles for developing an elite serve? Well, if you're talking about developing elite serve, you've got to have rock solid fundamentals. And I know that sounds almost trite.

But you can't develop an elite serve without the fundamentals. Then within that context, each player is going to have. their own individual flair and personal attributes that adds a uniqueness to their serve. But for example, number one is make sure you have a proper grip. Number two. Make sure you have the optimum stance. Most players do not. They look at the pros.

And that can be a bit deceiving because a lot of the pros don't have an optimism. Like, whatever you do, don't try to copy Opelka's stance.

he can get away with it but it's so extreme i mean god bless him that's fine but that is not ideal and is not optimizing somebody's it may be comfortable for him but it's not optimizing from a biomechanical perspective so grip stance then also make sure you understand the concepts of the throwing action how is your arm action are you getting the elbow in a position a throwing position

Do you have adequate rotation? The toss location, make sure that that is in your power zone, so to speak. Just one fundamental after another.

you know how you facilitate that at a young age is actually it's it's paradoxical because when you're teaching young kids The way to get them to be successful is to teach them methodologies that... really limit their future i'll give you an example you see little kids and they learn how to toss the ball way over their head you know not almost behind the baseline and then they kick the ball up and out and they get it in the court

right away all day and they're not double faulting but johnny who's trying to learn the classic style nice arm action getting the schultz is double faulting more often well In the long run, the person that's learning the fundamentals, the proper throwing fundamentals and positioning.

May make a few more double faults at the beginning. And I don't like kids at the young age to learn to kick. I feel it's counterproductive. I like them to learn how to hit up on the ball with some slice, not... the old classic american kick where they're tossing it way over their head and learn nice rhythm and arm action so again you go back to learning the fundamentals which is where you build an exceptional serve and if you have that

Then, you know, it's the old adage, practice, practice with targets, practice your consistency on toss, practice your ability to hit targets with the same toss, the same action. Look at Djokovic and even Barty. They're two of the best servers in the world. They're obviously the number one players in the world, but they're not necessarily the biggest servers.

But they disguise their serve extraordinarily well. They hit their targets extraordinarily well. And they do it with a nice... variation so that and they're intelligent they obviously back it up well but their their premise is that if they hit their targets that they're going to win more points that way with some aces but eliciting some errors and weak responses, and therefore they're going to be tougher to break serve. So that's what I would comment to your Instagram individual.

What percentage of your practice time should be dedicated to the serve and return? It's a great question because I always have to fight the tendency to not put serving first or to put it towards the end of practice. And I think a significant amount needs to be allowed for. The reason why I, as I think about it, very often when we're in clinic time.

and kids are working out, you're going to have point play. You're going to have various things like that. You're going to practice your serve. But the serve is something when they know what they're working on, the serve is something they can go out and practice. religiously on their own. So if you really give the young players the opportunity to understand what they're working on, why it's important.

and exactly what they need to do, it's a wonderful opportunity for them to go out on their own and practice their serve. and to try to work on those attributes. So I think if people get good coaching on the fundamentals of serve, it's about commitment. The only issue is it's not easy to get people that are really, really skilled.

at teaching the fundamentals on the serve because it's not an easy shot. What should you do in a match when you realize you're not striking the ball the way that you normally do? Well... It varies, depends on age. And I want to digress to your last question for a moment. I did mention about return to serve. And the return to serve is incredibly important.

And I think that's something that should be pointed out to players and it should be specific time for return to serve practice. I certainly in lessons. carve out time for return to serve every single lesson and the reason why is I can spend five or ten minutes on a serve and they know what to do and they can practice it. But you need somebody else to help you out on a return. So I'll always add the return in there.

and work on the basic fundamentals that I want instilled on the return of serve every day, every lesson, every practice session. What was the question you were asking me after that? The original question was, what do you do on days when you're not hitting the ball the way that you normally do? First thing to look for is you don't lose your talent.

So there's a reason why you're not striking the ball as well. So number one is, am I in the optimal mindset? There's an ideal state in which people perform.

their best and that state there's a very high level of intensity and focus yet there's an optimum level of physical arousal which are really alert but they're not tense so they're intense yet a degree of intensity where there there's physical arousal but they're relaxed so it's a flow state a lot of people say well they're in the zone well you can train to be in the zone when you go and train but the first thing i would tell them is

Try to get yourself in the ideal state, optimum level of intensity, yet relaxation, and so on. The second thing is usually that's... tied in with their focus on the outcome and that will create higher levels of anxiety and gets them away from executing so you can go to two fundamental principles that will help him enormously

to pull them back into the flow one is going to be the their split step timing of their split step is incredibly valuable because it pulls them into the now state and it gets them thinking more in subconsciously instead of conscious thought process and then secondly when the ball is approaching them making sure on the hip they have a specific target that they're going for

Both of these will help the athlete get away from focus on the outcome and will get them more into the moment. So take a moment, walk around, take a deep breath right before. you either serve or you return either bounce around and get yourself up to the ideal arousal and an energy level or take a deep breath and calm yourself down try to get yourself right at the ideal state focus on the split turn around and really have a target on the hip and you'll find you're back into the flow

And last question, what do you know now that you wish you had known when you were just starting out as a coach? It's very, very easy answer for me. And it's really the cornerstone. of one of the cornerstones of my coaching and my first cornerstone is that when you work with young people it's a sacred trust And it's a sacred trust to the child and to the parents that entrust you to work with these young people. And I go back to tennis as a sport.

When you look at the world in general and you see what goes on and you realize that this person is out playing tennis, that this is an optional.

event or function and therefore it means that your life is pretty good if you can be out on a tennis court and therefore I want on the tennis court to be joyous to develop a joyous passion for the opportunity to play and if if i were what i've learned over the years is you want to instill that you want them to understand that the fundamental principle of life that makes people become or allows people to become more successful than others

There are many things, you know, you get work ethic and commitment and so on. But there's one thing that stands above everything else. And that's a joyous passion for what they're doing. You show me. someone who has joy and passion for what they're doing and they do it long enough and they will become a genius at it

Because the brain grows, you evolve, you push yourself in ways. Somebody who's got joyous paths for tennis, they're going to work hard. They're going to develop the attitude that should be there with some guidance. And that is the number one thing that I didn't fully understand when I was younger, but I understand it and grasp it much more today. I try to remind myself.

That's what I want to look for in life, for myself every day. That's what I want my coaches to understand, that the coaches that I'm fortunate to have on our team, that we are the blessed ones. when we can go out on a tennis court in the world like you know so many other people the struggles it means we have we should be joyous we should be passionate it should be something that

we really look forward to. And if we're doing that, then good things happen from there. That's great advice. And Nick, I can't thank you enough for coming on the show today. I know I've already learned. probably five new things and, and hopefully the audience out there has learned some great stuff as well. You know, I just appreciate you sharing your time and your expertise and hopefully we can do this again in the future.

Well, it's been my pleasure and you take care and all the best with the show. All right. Thanks, Nick. Right on. All right. I want to thank Nick for joining us today. I learned a lot and I hope you did as well. I'm really excited for Nick to come out with his online platform Maximum Tennis in the next few months, which will have several of the tips we talked about today, as well as hundreds of others that he's accumulated over his long coaching career.

My first takeaway from today's episode was his key to becoming a great competitor. Letting go of the end result and focusing on the process is a concept every player can use to improve. My second takeaway was this tip for improving your level on a day where you don't seem to have your normal game. It's important to remember you didn't lose your talent. Get yourself into the present by split-stepping for every shot and picking big targets.

These two tips will absolutely lead to improved play in tournament competition. I want to thank you all for listening. I know there are a lot of podcasts out there and I'm grateful you chose to join me today. I'm motivated to evolve and improve. So please subscribe if you enjoyed the episode and leave a comment or review. So we keep getting better every week.

For more, check out my Instagram at Stokey Tennis for clips from these podcasts, as well as general drills and tips to help your tennis game. Thanks for listening. I hope you just improved in tennis without even hitting a ball.