Michael Joyce: Winning Tennis For Beginners And Advanced Players

Hey everyone, on today's episode we welcome back Michael Joyce. He's been instrumental in the careers of Maria Sheripova and Jessica Pagula, and most recently he helped Ashlen Kruger crack the top forty. He's now working with Katie Bolter, and he must have some magic pixie dust as she just won her first event of the year last week in just a short time of working together.

On today's episode, we discuss a high floor versus a high ceiling, what his beginners have in common with his pro players, and how you can play more consistently match to match and week to week. So sit back, relax, and prepare to become a smarter tennis player. All right, Michael, welcome to the pod. Yeah, it's great to be back.

Yeah, this is uh this is a thing I'd like to do annually and it's because you've got that magic pixie dust because you were with Ashlyn Kruger for a long time. You've been with a ton of great players and had a bunch of success. And recently you started with Katie Bolter and now in her third tournament last week, literally a couple of days ago.

She won an event and was playing great. And so I would just love to hear kind of like the behind the scenes, like when you started working with her, how you approach working with a new player and what a tournament like that looks like.

Sure, sure. Yeah, it's um it's always interesting. I mean I've been coaching now on the tour uh going on like twenty-three years. I I think I started W my very first player was Alexander Stevenson for like a year or so and I was hitting a lot with Maria at the time too. So I mean at thirty years old I was traveling with Maria pretty much full time and uh

twenty three years later still doing it. So but um yeah, it was interesting. I I have I worked with Ashton Krueger for the last about four or five years, uh, on and off. I mean, I started with her um when she was in the juniors and um I actually went to USTA and and worked a lot uh with her at the USTA along with some other juniors. So it was kind of cool to kinda um see kind of that transition, you know, with um the players. They're they're not sure if they're gonna go to college.

I did it with Jessie as well, obviously started with Jessie when she was like sixteen. So it's it it's tough, especially with the women because at sixteen, seventeen they start playing really, really well. And it's kind of like, do they go to college, do they turn pro? Um, some of the players don't really know what to do. So um that's kinda like

the field in a way that I've kind of been doing for a while. Um, you know, especially with the US T A with Ashton. So when I finished with Ashton after US Open Um, I got right into coaching at home, which was pretty cool. I started working with some like some real young juniors, some uh j junior girls that were fifteen, sixteen

kind of just getting their feet wet in the ITF circuit and traveling and kinda learning how to almost be like a little pro. And then um I was doing that for a few months and then I got a call from uh Katie's agent. Um I had a few other players who kinda reached out to me as well, but I felt like uh it could be a good match with Katie just because she's I mean, I know her game pretty well. I've seen her play for ten years. Um, she played against players that I've coached before and I feel like

She's twenty nine, so she has a lot of experience. She's been on the tour for a while. But I felt like her game kind of matches up well to the players that I've done well with. And um so to me Um I just wanted to give it a shot. You know, when you first start working with somebody you just never know obviously how always the personalities are gonna clash and and and different things like that. So we spent a few weeks in Spain uh during off season.

And she's had kind of the same coach for a long time. I mean, she had this lady that she had worked with who did a great job with her for I think the last four or five years and And before that she had uh worked with Jeremy Bates a lot, like w you know, earlier in her career and for many, many years. So she hasn't had like a ton of coaches and

It's not like I've worked with I mean, I've worked I guess on paper with a lot of players, but I typically have longer relationships with my players. So, um I felt like I could help her and I liked her game and we spent those weeks in Spain and

She trained unbelievably hard and I love the team around her, which is kind of nice. She has a a team in place, like a great hitting partner and trainer and and physio, which is kind of nice because um a lot of times when I start working with the young players.

Um you kinda have to like teach'em how to kind of fit all that in, right? So um felt like she's really professional and so I feel like right off the bat, um, we hit it off pretty well and um obviously great to see her um Um you know when you first start working with somebody too you can train like a ton, but I think it's good to see them play matches and obviously nowadays you can coach during matches so it's

it's a little bit tricky at first, everybody's different and so um we had a good trip down Australia. She had some tough draws, so obviously she played uh Benchich in Australia and she played um Svitolina in in Auckland after Winning a match, but Swedelino went on and won the tournament. So you know it wasn't a good thing.

I felt like she's going in the right direction. I think she felt that way too, but it wasn't you know, when you're playing top ten players it's you're not always gonna have the results right off the bat. So We had made a plan to go to um the indoors and play um hopefully some turn play a lot of matches indoors and build that confidence um'cause she's coming back from injured.

Her ranking had dropped. So obviously we went there and you know, she got through that first match was tough, and then she started playing amazing tennis and kind of got on a roll and And, you know, you find yourself in the final and final was a little bit tougher. Both girls were a little bit tired.

typical final nervous and stuff. But Katie really like lost her first set and she hung tough and won the last two sets. So it's great. Um it's always nice when you're working with somebody it's pretty new but you see results right away. It's it kinda Um knows you're kinda doing a I feel like I'm doing a good job and she's excited about the future. So hopefully we can have a really good year. Yeah. Do you do you have anything in place where

You know, to win that tournament, I believe it was five matches she had to win, is that correct? Right. Right. Okay. And then a slam is seven. And then you're talking to your juniors at home and they're at least five, maybe seven, or you're talking to someone in a USTA league and they've got to win five matches in a row over a period of time. What is your best advice or how do you help a player

kind of stay solid for five straight matches. You can't just play one great match and then lay an egg, obviously. So so what is the mentality or what do you do to keep that level of consistency?

Yeah, I I think um that's part of becoming um it's part of your experience and and obviously getting used to playing many matches in a tournament because Um, you know, I I find that the younger players sometimes don't really know always how to manage uh You know, they might play great again in one particular match.

But then um, you know, the next day they play an opponent that plays a lot different, or maybe they're a little tired or nervous or conditions and they don't really know how to always manage their game based on the day or or maybe their opponent. And so y that's one thing when you're also when you're with a player for a long time

you really get a feel kind of like for how they're gonna play. You know, th you don't always know they're gonna win or lose, but I feel like all the years with Jesse or with Ashlin or Maria, after so many years you have a pretty good idea, like kind of like how they're gonna play, how they're gonna feel a lot of times

even before they do, just because you've been with them for so long. But when you're with a newer player that's part of um you know, that's part of getting to know them, kinda know like How much they like to warm up? How much are they like to do the same routine? Um, are they very like do they like a a ton of info? Do they like A small amount of info, right? So every player is different. I mean nowadays as coaches, especially on tour, you can get so much info about the opponents.

And you can um You know, and then how much do you want to do? Give your give your player. Like, you know, sometimes you it it might be something on the other player, but if it's gonna affect the way they play then it's probably not worth even telling them, right? So All that stuff is kind of like you can really

get a good gauge at tournaments. And the same with like like you were saying, I mean, nowadays we have such wide range. We have these tournaments that like she just played where it's five day five straight matches. Like she didn't start till

Tuesday and the finals was on Saturday. So it was literally every day, five days. And then you have these tournaments that go on for two weeks, you know, Grand Slams or Indian Wells or a lot of the bigger tournaments now are twelve to fourteen days where you almost have like for sure one day, sometimes two days in between the matches, and it's like How much do you wanna focus? I mean, how much do you wanna practice? How much do you wanna play? Um

uh are you working on like their game like as a whole or are you like working to win the match the next day, right? So there's all there's all these things that go into it, but I think every situation is different. I try to approach You know, you want to give your your player information on the opponent, but I always try to look at like how can they play their game against this opponent and and stick to like the things that they're trying to do.

without, you know, playing too much out of their comfort zone to beat the opponent. And that's very much a lot of coaching, I think, in pro time. I'm really on the fence with this one, so I'm curious what you would say but

You know, let's say I have people in USTA flex leagues, right? And they play once a week. So they're playing eight matches. They got to play well for like two straight months. Like they're trying to win their league. So it's like, that's a long period of time where you have to play ball and you got to show up on that particular day and feel good. So my question is. At the pro level or the junior level or the USTA amateur adult level.

Do you think it's better if you had to pick one, like a higher floor, where you go, Hey, I know that I can come out and perform at a certain level um and I'm down here or someone who has a really high ceiling, but sometimes maybe that floor is lower because they're a little more volatile. They could probably chop some better players, but they might have a a lower level day like

What do you value in a player? Do you think that it should be kind of like trying to train that ceiling or trying to raise that base level so you can kind of bring that every day? Yeah, that's uh that's a great question, right? And and I think it it d it depends a lot on like

what they're playing, right? So like for me I tend to like I mean this is a little secret I I that I probably haven't told a lot of people, but I tend to like coaching players who I feel like when they're confident and they're playing well and they're really buying into like their identity and what they're trying to do, they have the ability to win the tournament or go really far.

Right. And then you have so with that being said, they might throw in some bad weeks at times, just um, you know, so be it. But like they have the type of game where the when they put it together, like you can win the term Well there's a lot of players out there who are super consistent. And, you know, if they're they might always win a match or two, right? But they're gonna get overpowered at a certain point or they're just gonna run into a uh you know. And so I don't I think

Some of that is obviously their game style, you know, their maybe their age, their fitness level, you know, a lot goes into it in the pros. I was always a very like I like when I played I always was really solid. You know, I always could beat the guys that like I should beat and then I'd maybe have some trouble

once my game kinda so I took a lot of pride in that mentality of being solid day in and day out. And and I think everybody tries to do that, but I think a lot of that has to do with their game style, right? There's players out there who are super consistent and they're gonna not miss and, you know, even if it's in the league matches or whatever, you kinda know what you're gonna get. And then you have kind of those wild cards at times who

You know, when they put it all together they can be really dangerous. So I I feel like the pros, it's similar. I mean Ostapenko is a good example. She can lose, lose, lose, but like when she feels good and she puts it together she can win a slam, right? So Um I think it has a lot to do with kind of their the game style more than the mentality sometimes you

Do you think that with coaching juniors? So you've kind of seen both levels, right? You just won a WTA event with a player, but you've also told me you were coaching an eleven year old boy who was like very early in the game, right? So you're seeing like massive ends of the spectrum. Um, I guess I'm wondering kind of what you think can be volatile. So I at least in my experience, I've seen players mentally.

They kind of go up and down on this roller coaster. They're feeling great. Oh my God, I'm the worst. I feel great. And then also with their bodies, right? Sometimes physically they look really fresh. They're moving. They look agile. And then sometimes they look super stiff and wooden and they look exhausted, right? I find that it's not usually the ball striking that's going on that roller coaster. It's usually some things they can control.

Do you do you think that's true, number one? And then do you see that at those opposite ends of the spectrum with both your beginners and your high level WTA players? Absolutely. Absolutely. I think I think one of the biggest um um I I don't like talent. at all levels is being able to win uh when you don't you're not playing great, right? Or you don't feel great or you might have and at every level that shows up, right? It's just it it just

I i I think you like in some of the real young juniors I I try to like tell them like okay every day's different. I mean tennis, every opponent you play is different, every ball they're hitting you is different.

And you know, when they're real young, they learn obviously technique, right? Is probably the biggest thing at first. Like you're just learning how to hit the ball and you're learning how to, you know, work on your Technical, and then all of a sudden now you're thrown into tournaments, and it's like, okay, you learned all these shots, and you spent, you know, probably a few years.

uh basically learning how to serve and do all this and now you're have to bring it to the match and you have to learn how to put it all together and and basically win points, right? And then so that's kind of like a really big step and in like so like this junior boy I'm working with now, like he's done a ton of technical and he hits the ball well.

But then he goes into tournaments and he's just working on a just downline backhand for two days and he goes in the tournament and he tries to hit every ball down line. You know, you might work on your strokes and your footwork and for an hour or whatever, but now in the afternoon when you play the match you almost have to kind of forget about that and you gotta look more towards like shot selection or where you're hitting

you know, how deep, you know, if you're behind the baseline do you hit the ball high or you know like kind of basic stuff, but it's so different than just like taking a lesson and just learning how to kind of, you know, hit your forehand and back. And then um and then you start to see like some of the middle range players who are like, you know, girls that are fourteen, you know, fifteen years old, maybe they're like ten UTR and then they can play a really high level.

But then all of a sudden they go into the tournaments and like you said, can they bring that i every day? It's very difficult, right? They maybe like focus in and play a great match and do everything right and then the next day, you know, for whatever reason

Um, they could be nervous, they could be tired. Like I said, there's so many things that go into it and then they're not playing the same way and then they panic or they think they have to so you're kinda teaching them like, listen, every day is different. every every uh opponent's different. You gotta learn how to like use your game to the best of the ability that day, right? And trying to get through tournaments are kind of about trying to get through matches.

play another match, right? So it doesn't always have to be pretty, it doesn't always have to and I think that's a learned skill, right? So it's kind of like you can talk about it all you want, you can practice uh it it's a different feeling under pressure. You know, you get more tired, things hurt more, you're you're more stressed, your heart rates so, you know, having a combo of that is super important, right? Just like when you're a junior and you're playing um

you know, a lot of juniors play up all the time and it's great. They're playing better players than they're they're getting great competition, but are they learning also how to beat players their own age or beat players they should beat? And then it's same thing. Somebody who's winning all the time and they're just better than everybody, maybe they kinda level out because

they they reach a threshold and they can't so I think throwing yourself in those situations often. I mean even with Katie was kind of cool because when we talked about the schedule, um, you know, her ranking had dropped quite a bit. So it's you don't know exactly where you're gonna get in. Well, you know, last year year ago she was twenty three, so she like knows every tournament she's gonna play.

Where she wants to play and so forth. And then you're ranked all of a sudden 100, 120. You don't know exactly where you're gonna get in, qualifying. So it's kind of like But the one thing I we both agreed on was that she needed to play matches. She needed to come back and she's healthy and play a lot of matches. And so we decided to kind of

uh make this indoor schedule based on the fact that she's a good indoor player. She's from England. She plays on it a lot. She has a big game. Hopefully in a couple tournaments

We were looking I was looking for her to play four, five, six matches. And, you know, she got it all in the one tournament, so our schedule changed a little bit and we missed the next turn. But bottom line You know, pl even to somebody as experienced as her and like you need those matches and you need, like you said, to feel some days you have to play without, you know, win try to win the match without feeling great.

you know, you you have to maybe hit a couple extra balls cross court till you get your rhythm or, you know, whatever. I i it so be. But like Um, I think that's a learned skill over time. I think if you have a good coach it helps too because they can navigate a little bit um through those uh those matches that maybe you you're struggling and you can get through and find a kind of the old saying, find a way to win kind of thing, right? But I I think players need to go through that.

You know, and obviously the younger they can start to kinda learn that, I think it's a it's a big skill. Before we jump back in, just a quick call out for ADV. They just launched their new Pro Socks, and I was part of the early testing group. I used them while playing Padel and they hold up really well through long sessions. I actually just wore them for a tournament where I played four matches in a row, which was a ton, but the socks held up great.

One of the biggest differences in this sock is the microfiber grip on the soles. It actually activates with sweat so you don't glide around in your shoes during quick change of direction, which tends to be a problem for me as I wear shoes on the bigger side. You can learn more about that, their other materials, and early great reviews by following the link in the show notes. Someone asked me on Instagram I did one of those Ask Me Anything and they said

How would you balance uh improvement versus outcome once you get into certain matches? Right. And so obviously for your 11 year old boy who's getting going the game, it's probably like, hey, play this match and the goal is to get better. Like, yes, you're going to compete. you try to win, you don't go out there and just give yourself up competitively, but also you're like, do the right things. That's the most important thing. If Katie is in the finals of the US Open later this year.

I'm pretty sure you'd be okay if her forehand got worse in the match and she somehow won the match. You'd be like, We don't care. Like you're holding the trophy. Who cares? Exactly right. So so what is that middle ground? Like those are two very extreme settings, one person getting going in the game and one person playing for the ultimate title.

when you're just a weekend warrior and you're out there in a match or you're a junior and you're just in the middle of a tournament or you're Katie in your first round of a mid level tournament. The result is not the end of the world.

How do you strike that balance as a coach with a player where you're like, hey, we are trying to do the right things and get better, which ultimately will probably help you win, but also sometimes like the results do matter a little more, right? Sure, sure. Yeah. I mean one thing that it

all the years uh and I've noticed it even more so maybe recently because I've worked with so many different like levels in a way. And one thing that's pretty clear is that I would say ninety nine percent of people don't play as well in the Like I I mean, uh you know, you like to hear these stories. They rise to the occasion and they you know, this person and and there's a few. There I I've had a couple players over the years

dig in more, right? Like Can I interrupt? I have a question about that. My my stance with people who rise to the challenge, which like you said is very rare. I think that shows me they're not as focused on the other Yeah, true. If you could play better on command, I'd be like, why would you save it for five, four in the third? Like let's just get up a break, right? So it shows me that to me I've always felt like if you have someone who truly does that.

I'm like maybe they were only firing it like eighty five percent earlier. And I I also think too, like the the best players maybe play just solid, you know, and other people tend to back the other way kind of. And and I really see it like in in the juniors. Like um i it's I I feel like I would say most of the juniors probably feel like they play better.

Right? They're g they go for more, there's less pressure, they can, you know, hit hit and then in the match they don't wanna lose, so you know, you start to uh you push or, you know, whatever. You wanna different things, uh

um come out of matches that that don't in practice. And I think you could say that at almost all levels. Like I mean uh there I've had some really good pros who m who I know once they get their teeth into a tournament Um, maybe after a win or two they their best comes out because they feel like you know, there's something about like that first match in a tournament I think is tough for everybody. I mean, even Center are the best players in the world. So I I feel like the You kinda have to have

uh goal in mind, right? Like let's say you're working on something or you're talking with your coach, like you gotta, you know, keep going for your shots. If you know, if you wanna be more consistent, maybe it's like where you hit the ball more than hitting it softer

Or hitting like a ton of spin all of a sudden. You know, spin is good because you can swing and it helps keep the ball in, but then I mean you'll see some players all of a sudden just start like pushing like crazy. I mean that's typically what it does. And so I I think it it it again, it's like going out there with a clear

mindset, I think that's where the competition helps and the matches. I mean, even at a club level, you could have an idea of what you're trying to accomplish out there. Maybe it's certain things you've worked on or maybe you you want to like at least keep swinging through the ball or Stuff like this, and then you find yourself kind of like doing whatever it takes to kind of win the point. And a lot of times might that might help you for

a few games or might even help you for one particular match, but it also is that gonna make you a better player in two months from now or three months from now. And I think I think as you as you keep getting better and you keep kind of placing goals in um to how you're gonna play, um

and play with you know, right purpose, let's say. I mean that's I I feel as w working with the pros, I I put a lot of emphasis on that, right? You're you're gonna go out there, you're gonna, you know, hit your returns if you wanna you know, be safe, maybe give yourself bigger targets, but like very clear about you gotta go for your shots, you gotta go y a and I think most of the good players understand that that's what they have to do. It doesn't always like feel that way right away. But I think

being a coach and kind of preaching that that's kind of what you're trying to do and um i i ultimately it seems to work pretty well. I mean they're good players so usually they can kind of feel like i if they're gonna listen and try to really make a instead of maybe you know, thinking about the million other little things you can think about, right? So I feel like for pros that that playing with that purpose is really big. And if you have a player who you know

Um I mean I think the top players always have that advantage. I mean even somebody like Serena in her day, like she's gonna play a certain way. So maybe it's she's not executing it. Um, you know, maybe she's off and she might even lose a set, six one, and she's not executing, but she's not

like thinking, Am I playing the right way? She might be like, Okay, you know, I'm not moving, I'm not seeing the ball, whatever it could be, but it's not like, oh, I'm gonna change I think as you as your level drops it's easier to kind of um think, oh okay, my t coach told me I should do this, this and this, it's not working and I'm gonna go back to what I did before'cause it feels more comfortable, but doesn't mean it's right, right? So they're not

That's the difference. As you get better, I think really buying into like how you're trying to play, what you're trying to accomplish. i it's usually simple but doing that under pressure i it you have to kind of believe it and you have to do it over time and that's basically a confidence is you

you know, you're going out there and you're confident about what you're trying to do and usually um if you're good you'll execute it. And if you're winning a lot you execute even more, right? So once you start losing and you struggle all the doubts come in and you start questioning every every little thing and tennis is a very complicated game. I mean, i it can be simple i when you're playing well and and everything's working, but it can also feel unbelievably complicated.

um really quick, right? So I think good coach is trying to help the player simplify it in his mind. I mean, even at like you said, the club level, I mean you could work on a million things in tennis, but when you go out there and you're playing, you kinda have to kinda simplify it. Everything happens fast. You have an idea of what you're trying to do.

doing it under pressure and you're playing an opponent who's also trying to make you feel uncomfortable too. So all of those things kinda thrown in. Um that's that's usually as a coach that's what I'm trying to do, simplify it in their mind, so under high pressure, they're pretty clear about what they're trying to execute. And you and a lot of times that that's good enough.

We've talked about kind of like solving problems, being good on a consistent basis, how you manage yourself in different conditions. If I watch any sports, uh like the guy that comes to mind for me is I think two or three years ago, the Nuggets won the NBA championship. And I'm watching Aaron Gordon, and I'm like, that guy's a winner.

Like he's not the best player on their team. He's probably the second or the third, probably the third. But like I'm like, everything that guy does is just right. Like he's just a winner. He gets it. He's like maximizing.

And I'm sure you see that like there are great players on tour who you probably don't view that way. You're like she hits the ball well or she wins matches, but I would not call her a winner. So I would love to know because you've seen so many great champions and you've seen so much good tennis.

How would you describe when you say and you look at a player and you go, That person's a winner, what does that mean to you? Yeah, I yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. And you can see it at all levels, right? Like it i it really doesn't um I I think for me, um

I mean one thing that I kind of look back at when I was younger and my dad I was actually talking about this today with somebody. So when when I was probably like fourteen or fifteen, I remember my dad used to like drop me off of this club in LA and and they had all these like But like older guides in their twenties who were playing open tournaments and they're really good level players, you know, college guys.

money tournaments and they they so I was my dad would drop me off there and sometimes I'd play four or five sets a day and um I didn't even have a coach always w there with me. I had kinda like to figure out how to try to win the sets and there'd be guys on the side like hustling or betting or, you know, different stuff. And I feel like those couple of years I learned so much about like

not only the game in general, but my game. Like how and and I feel like that's something um when I was younger I had my lessons with Landstorp like twice a week. and my dad was into the, you know, hitting another ball machine and doing this. But then when it was time to play, like it in a way like that was all kind of thrown out the window. Like all of a sudden now I'm playing, I'm trying to win the set, right? So I'm like

you know, my strokes and and the things I had been working on was now kinda secondary and now I'm trying to like almost like win like a chess match or a chess game because that's ultimately what we're doing. We're playing a game. And so I can sense pretty quick like the players who have so much focus on themselves You know, that's a big thing that I find in in women's tenants happens quite a bit.

is the players focus so much on what they're how they feel or what they're trying to do that you it's sometimes you're f it's forgotten that you're actually playing an opponent and you're just trying to like win this match so you can kinda play another match, right? And and I find the players you can tell kind of quick, the ones who are like competitive, they're you know, if things aren't going

exactly for them. It they're they take it as a challenge, not like, you know, I can't do it, I can't you know, or they're like a victim or you know, they're just not having And it it's just a sense you kind of get when you're around the game quite a bit, right? And and it's the same thing, like at the very top, the players who love the the battle

more a lot of times than just always the outcome, right? And they like to get in, they like to battle. If things are difficult, they you can tell they kind of like thrive. They don't shy away from it. Um you know, when we're a kid and we're playing games, we want things to be difficult, right? And we play a game that's really simple, you we tend to like throw it away and move on to something else. So that's in our nature that we should have that. But along the way

it's so easy to lose, you know, there's so much you know, that go into it. So I feel like the players who just kinda have that naturally or they just love the competition and love the battle are the ones like who are like true winners, right? And and I would take that over like unbelievable strokes and unbelievable technique any day because you're only gonna get so you have to have that fire inside to be a great great competitor.

And and tennis you you need it yourself, right? Other sports you can you know, have a bad day and somebody jumps in or you're Teammate picks you up for ten minutes and but tennis like when you're out there it's you're kind of alone. You know, you might have a coach you know helping you, cheering you on, you know, pumping you up, but at the end of the day you you have to kind of

Like you can only really rely on yourself. And that's um you know, it's a blessing and curse in in a lot of ways. But I think the the true winners are the ones that kind of thrive on all those things. And you can feel it pretty early. You like we said, you you are coaching and have coached every single level. So normally at the end of a podcast, I ask for the best advice for a four oh player.

I want to know your best advice that would apply to the eleven-year-old you're working with who's getting going, the four or five adult who's pretty strong and above average, and then all the way up to someone trying to be a tour pro. What would your best advice be that could apply to all three of those players?

Yeah, I think I I think the best advice and and I've been doing it with with those three, like kinda right now, which is really interesting and I think nowadays we have a lot of ability to, you know, video some of the matches, right? Like the a like the younger boy, they just got uh play whatever you can put in the back of the court and they video of the matches. And so he'll I'll watch sometimes and it and it's funny when he watches back and he sees

Like when you're playing, everything kinda happens so fast, right? And you can play a two hour match and at the end you're like, Oh, and your coach might pick out certain points and stuff but I feel like if you can watch yourself at any level it it helps so much because

you can start to see like, oh, you know, it was three all deuce and, you know, or I went for this silly return, right? And I I didn't really need to do that. And maybe if I played this ma and they lose and then maybe if I play this match again, that one or two points Where they make a better choice than

uh no matter what their level is, um, could could change the whole outcome, right? And I find that when they see it and if you point out some things and they see it, it it really helps. And I think that's something that we have nowadays um the ability to do that more. And I I think learning from

other matches, of course, you know, a lot of times people will lose a match. Uh I mean, I would say majority of time at all levels when people are losing a match it's usually very similar the same thing, right? They're They're, you know, making ridiculous errors. But in practice they don't do it. Now they go into the match and and now they're making these errors again that they, you know,

you know, they're telling themselves they're not gonna do it and they just keep doing it, right? So I think there's things that we can fix.

You know, maybe it's not, you know, first ser you could be have a great serve and you go in the match and you just serve thirty percent first serve all the time and you don't know why and maybe you're going for too much. But again, if you can kind of Learn from the very matches before and kind of mistakes or things that you could do better, you know, being open to trying to bring that, that could also go like what we were talking about the beginning where you're gonna focus on

having a higher percent first serve. So no matter win or lose, you're gonna serve today seventy percent, whether it's taking pace off Those things I think make a big difference as you go along and at any level can kinda do that. If you're playing tournaments and matches and you're you're running into things like that all the time.

I soaked up every word because I know you're just running around sprinkling that pixie dust on everyone you meet. I I need to know what that what that secret sauce is. Will you and uh will you and Katie be going to Indian Wells in Miami this year? Yeah, yeah. So uh next tournament's in Marita, Mexico.

It's a five hundred event, so we're gonna go there early next week. She's in England right now, has like a few more days indoors, so we'll have to try to get there early, hit outdoors a little bit, and then we're gonna go Indian Wells in Miami after that. I love it, man. Well, thanks for coming on the pod again. We learned so much. Thanks, John. Appreciate it. All right, I wanna thank Michael for coming on the show again. I love our annual talks and I always learn a ton.

One theme that always leaks into our conversations is match play, getting more sets in, learning how to solve problems, learning how to account for the different conditions and variables on each specific day. It's impossible to become a tennis robot that just perfects forehands and backhands. You gotta learn how to play the game, navigate matches, and the only way you can do that is by getting more practice sets and more tournament matches.

As always, thanks again for listening. I hope you just improved attendance without evening.