Josh Goffi: Start Faster, Close Sets, Win Matches

Hey everyone, I've opened up registration for my Indian Wells doubles camps next March 4th through 12th. Each three-day camp will have nine hours of instruction and two courtside night session tickets to the BMP. We'll be working on timing your poaches more effectively.

getting yourself into more two-up situations at the net, hitting more effective ground strokes so you can set your partner up, and obviously dealing with difficult lobs. Everyone in the camp will receive a premium gift bag featuring an ADV backpack as the bag itself.

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On today's episode, we've got Josh Goffey, head coach of the University of South Carolina, talking about the six phases of a tennis match, how to make sure you get off to a quick start, how to close out sets, how to start that second set, and eventually, how do you close out the match? It's one of my favorite episodes ever, and I learned a ton in this one. So sit back, relax, and prepare to become a smarter tennis player. All right, Josh, welcome back to the pod. Yeah, man, happy to be here.

I always learn something from you. I miss our talks recruiting, sitting out at Kalamazoo for like 12 hours straight on the backcourt so I could just pick your brain. So now I got to schedule a podcast to do it. When I asked you what you wanted to speak about today, you mentioned phases of the match. I got excited because it's something that I've never labeled and I don't know much about.

And it probably shows because when I was at Duke, I feel like you guys always won three sliders against us in that regionals and carry like you guys just dominated us. Our levels were the same, but your win percentage against us was super high. So clearly, you know, something we don't. So I'd love to know. to start just kind of like your general philosophy for playing matches, why these phases of the match might matter and kind of how you use them.

Yeah, well, thanks. Yeah, those are fun times. I mean, those are some of my most cherished times with you is, you know, getting through the boredom of the long days and carry and so on. And I've learned a lot from you as well, man. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, look, the this is something that it's not I wouldn't say I wanted to develop. I don't think it's hidden knowledge by any means whatsoever. It's I just decided to sort of label it so I can.

I can get the information across to my guys that I coach currently on my team in a much easier way so we can identify certain things. And by no means is it something that is super rigid. It's a framework. for for players to be able to just become aware that there are different situations in a match right like tennis is a game of human nature ultimately it's me versus you across the net all of your

personal issues, all of your greatness, it comes out on the competitive side of tennis, right? Very much in the big moments of matches and so on. And my job as a tennis player from point one until the end is to stack as much

pressure or stress on your side of the net. So in the big moments, I don't necessarily have to go and win them. You're going to make a bad decision in those big moments and actually, you know, create an error. I force that error, even though it might be stated as an unforced error in that moment. I force that by implementing my strategy on you throughout the match. Right. And so, you know, that's like one side of things. And then the other side of things is, you know.

the score does add pressure to a match as well so i'm adding pressure to you in hopes that when the score pressure aligns you're going to crack in those moments so so we all know that we've all talked i think it's the eighth game of the set is like the biggest game of the you know there's it's not this isn't new news to any of us right we're just i'm just trying to give

more of a foundation for for people to understand right and like how to stack that pressure and then when we can count on and so on so you know um when when i talk to my guys about it right one of the one of the easiest ways for me to coach as a

and teach as a coach is when we go to fall tournaments you know we just talked about carry but it's like spending time with my young guys or even you know sort of that freshman sophomore group watching other matches right and sort of teaching them about the flow of a match

what's going to happen and if you can watch say 20-25 minutes of a match you can get a scope of what's happening who's playing and how they're playing against the other opponent but you know the the situation of a match when it gets to that that breaking point it's predictable in a way and they're amazed at how often i can predict what's going to happen here right and so that's where the phases sort of come from

Love that. So I want to get right into the details that I believe you sent me. You have six phases of the match. So let's start with the first one and kind of what that is and what the strategy is and why that why that takes place. Well, it's the opening, right? And it's one of the most obvious.

I struggle when players walk into a match and they don't know how they're going to open it. So there's a few things that are going on. You've got to read the room there a little bit. One, players are nervous when they're starting out matches. So there's a lack of certainty. There's a little bit of doubt.

going on in there um you have to anticipate that your opponent might feel the same way so so that's a big part of it and and what is the purpose of the opening what are you trying to accomplish inside that match we just spoke about my entire goal is to stack pressure on you across the net so in the big moments you crack. So why are we going to wait for that, right? So two things need to happen in that early part of the match. One, we need to play solid enough to be able to see what our opponent

is doing, whether they are nervous, whether they're ready to go or not. And we also need to see what they're doing, what they like, what they don't like, right? Are they running around? Do they want to play out at the ad court?

um do they like to stay up on the baseline are they a servant valor if we're if we're erratic in the beginning of a match we can't get any sort of information about our opponent on and on that given day we may even know our opponent on that you know prior to that match but every day is a different day right so the beginning phase of a match really solidifies your strategy or can help build it for the rest of the day and you can't do that if you're not solid now

that is sort of a overarching goal now there are personal needs on the other side right so on my side if if i'm a player that is maybe a little nervous and i need to hit out on a couple things good Make sure you have a plan for that. Don't go out there and just start spraying errors and let's umbrella or like live under the umbrella of I got to release early in the match so I can feel good. Right. It is a time.

That matters, but it doesn't matter as much as the end of the set, per se. But again, you don't want to dig a hole to the point where you can't get out of it for the rest of the set. Right. So all that makes sense in a player like me who was serving volley, I would take second serves and come in.

Clearly in that strategy, I'm still attempting to make balls. I would hopefully be solid while applying pressure. So someone like me, would you say, hey, it's still fine for you to play your normal style to open the match?

obviously you don't do that style and just miss second serve returns all the time. Otherwise it wouldn't be your normal style. Or would you suggest, Hey, you know what? Even that first game or two, if you find yourself nervous, maybe pull back a little bit and just kind of get in some rallies so you can get that information. No, absolutely. You are who you are. And this has nothing to do with that. By no means are you ever going to tell a player, this is how you play tennis, right?

the way that you've grown up to play tennis is your style is your personality it's according to your tool set it's how you've been most successful right but that that understanding of No, you need to be solid enough. Right. So if let's take you, for example, if you're going to hit and charge on every second serve, right, the first second serve you see might be a little tough, too, because you need to see what the second serve looks like. You need to see the balance, the speed, the location.

right but then you can start betting on that that's going to come there and then you're going to go ahead and force your way forward you would probably go through the middle part of the court right adam and then to have the volley come back to you and instill that right

so we also one of the major parts of the opening is once you are solid make sure you are making your statements for the rest of the match it's a preview for your opponent for the next two and a half hours it's like the appetizer course of the match it's like here man this is what's going to happen right

One, I'm not going to check out when I'm under pressure. That's a really big one to establish. You know, Stoke, if you come forward on me early in the match, you're going to see a volley every time. I'm not going to miss three points there. right i'm gonna i'm gonna check you out and let's see if you can hit a volley from below the net that's my objective uh you know for me as a player i was absolutely off the second second serve that i got once i had a measure on it

You bet I was coming at you. There's no doubt in my mind I was coming at you. I was coming for it. I needed you to know as an opponent early on, hey, this could happen. It most likely will happen, but you don't know when. That's me starting to stack pressure from the very first opportunity.

Now, me needing to win that point is less important than me doing that early on because I'm making my statements, I'm establishing my game, but I do need to do it solidly enough, right? Because I need to see the other side of the court.

what is he doing what doesn't he like what does he like so when i hit that first changeover i have a small semblance of okay this worked he didn't like this or he did you know he liked this oh i got to be careful of that return that was really good okay so now i'm starting formulating

I get into the other side of the court. We play the next series of games. I'm in my return game. I see where you're serving. I go back. I refine my strategy a little bit on my service game. I go into the first changeover. I've got 90 seconds. And at that point, I'm going, all right, here's what I figured out.

I'm not worried about much there because I'm trying to win the end of the match. I'm not trying to win that middle or beginning section. I'm just trying to get the strategy that's going to allow me to win. So I'm getting whether it's the adjustments I have to make on my side of the court.

You know, if my forehand's off, I'm making sure I need to take care of that side. If it's something that they're doing on my second serve, if they're coming at me or if they're exploiting my backhand and I'm having to open my face and they're sneaking forward, I need to develop an answer to that. I have to have a solution for that. I need to start trying those things as early as possible in the match so I can actually be successful later on.

You mentioned that both players typically will start a match, especially if it's an important match, with some level of uncertainty or nerves. What are some ways that you as a coach or when you were a player could look across the net and see that your opponent was feeling that way?

I think you have to know what a bad error looks like for a player. I mean, there's bad decisions, there's technical errors, there's mental errors. If I see somebody making just a bad error, like it's just a random unforced error from the back of the court. missing by four feet at the level that we play at that's a bad mess right and so um you know if somebody is um you know that would be sort of on the nervous side if there's a technical situation you know where maybe i play a fast low slice

you know, into somebody's cranked over grip on the forehand, you know, and I see that come off the bottom edge of the racket, I go, you know, that's something where I want, that's going to be hit in the biggest moments of the match. That's one that I'm going to exploit for sure. Right. I mean, there, there are things, but.

I think it's pretty obvious when you're across the net and you see somebody, one, their body language is going to tell you, but a bad miss is a bad miss. And just to clarify, how long does this opening phase usually last for? Well, I think as long, you know, it can last, I mean, to me, I don't know. I don't want to put it as like six games, Stokey. Look, it's the beginning of the match. I mean, I think people settle in at different speeds, you know, and...

But typically, to me, I want two changeovers to really lock in and go, this is what I'm going to do. I'm committing to this. I've established my game. I kind of have a decent idea about what you're doing. This is how I'm going to beat you today. I'm going all in on my commitment on that right now. And then obviously that changes. So how does that opening phase then lead to the second phase? And what is that second phase?

if i'm establishing establishing like sort of stress on you and i've done a good job and my statements are there right now i have the opportunity and i know that i'm sort of working on you know and i know that because i played enough matches doing this

where, you know, for instance, I already gave you the look, man, I'm going to hit and charge on that second serve. I'm going to let you know, but like second serves, I'm going to, I'm going to absolutely, it's a statement that I made as a player. I encourage all of my players. It's the lowest hanging fruit in the matches. Get after somebody's second serves.

Don't miss them, but definitely let them know that they have to manage their first serve in the big moments so I can get in more play in the big moments when the score pressure rises. So as the set moves on, you're counting on the score pressure coming in. The points are worth a little bit more at that point. And at that point, I'm going to try to get my break, right? I really honestly feel. So how would I play that? That first point is everything to me.

When it gets to, say, 3-2 on serve, 3-all on serve, that first point is everything when you're serving. It's everything. Because I want you to feel the pressure of me being ahead in the game. And every point from that point on is extremely valuable to you.

So I'm going to play that probably a little more conservatively. And when I mean that, I'm not going to roll my shots around the court. I'm still going to come at you like I normally would. I'm going to have quality on all my shots. What I am going to do is I'm going to take the net out of play and take all the lines out of play.

and I'm going to come at you through the middle part of the court. And, you know, if you're playing on a 60-foot, you know, a court that has a 60-foot court on it, you know, the blue lines that are in there, it's the perfect court to play your big points in. So go after it.

But have a location on your return. Let the opponent know. Get in your stance ready to go. Let them see your eyes. I'm coming after you. And you can communicate that with your body language and your shot selection and your intensity inside the point.

you don't have to do anything spectacular there you just need to commit to sending that message and at that point the message has been sent whether you win or lose that person's either going to step up in that moment and overcome and that's fine you just cause them to reach into their bag

Dig, bring the adrenaline up and survive the moment. Well, that's stress. And people only have certain amount that they can deal with stress in a match. So you're now starting that slow drip where you're bleeding them out, so to speak. Terrible language, but... It is what it is.

I thought I'd be able to make it to the end of the six phases to ask you this question, but I'm going to ask now. So if the first point of that game, like let's say we're two changeovers and it's 2-1, 2-2, 3-2, something like that. And you go, hey, the first point of this game is everything. It's so important.

which is why I'm going to take the net out of play and take the lines out of play. My question would be, why wouldn't that just be something you always do? Why would you ever want to bring the net into play unless it was like a volley? Obviously, I can understand people missing volleys in the net.

Why would you ever want to flirt with either of those things in general? Well, because risk is part of our game, right? There's certain moments in matches where you have to push ahead. And later in that game, those are there, right? I mean, I think that... that when you get to that outside and it's low 15 you know it's time to i think that in in the way that i look at the game is that's an amazing opportunity to send a message because at worst i'm back to 15 all okay at worst

And on the positive, I get to love 30. Now I've increased a massive amount of stress. And the opponent needs to know that I'm willing to take a cut every now and then. And it is high risk, but the reward is extremely high. So the high risk that I was going to take, the reward was worth it.

Does that make sense? And so if you play the same way over and over and you play the same intensity, you say players become numb to the pressures of what you're bringing in a situation. So the score allows you to play a little riskier because human nature says, oh, I.

But he might hit that shot. And I need to be aware of it. Yeah, but he's only done it once. And how many times have you said that coaching doubles in college? It's like, please take the middle on every big point. He goes, yeah, but he's hit me there. And he's like, yeah, but I've.

he's only hit you there once down the line right i mean we don't need to cover it but we always do same thing with serves if you get beat t but the guy's 90 wide will not cover the wide because we could go t even though and that's sort of the same situation when we're talking about

you know, you're betting on human nature to come into play here. I love 15. The reward is huge to play risky. So, you know, it's, you know, first serve I'm in there, but first ball that I see, I'm not going to have a, an outlandish crazy shot that i don't have it's got to be within my parameters and what i own but but maybe it's an on the run forehand that i would normally defend hard middle it's going big line there i'm going to take the cut i want to send a message to this person

For me as a player, my backhand down the line was a little less percentage than, say, the cross. But you bet that love 15 at 2-3. That ball is sitting there. That ball is going in line 100 out of 100 times. I know that because I'm prepared for it, and that's the way I play the game.

That's the way I play this moment because the risk is worth the juice. And so now I get back to Love 30 in that moment. Now I've got you. Now it's your job to come to me. You have to raise your level there in that situation, right? To come up. So the worst thing I can do in this phase of the match is to make an error there at love 30.

I just want to give you an update. You're slowly convinced. I'm 20% buying in already, which is very good. You're selling this very, very well. So I have a question because you did answer my previous question where you said, if you just do the same thing, then it becomes predictable.

There's not as much pressure. So because what I was going to ask you before you said that was, well, you played solid. You took the net out of play. You took lines out of play. And you got up 15 love. So why wouldn't you just do the same thing to get up 30 love?

But then obviously you said it might become predictable or they might get used to it. How would you know what that threshold is? Because there could be times where you're like, hey, this guy just can't handle. Like when I look at Novak in a breaker. in a slam and he's winning 24 out of 25 or whatever and he's just playing rock solid and I'm going okay well that guy can't handle it so he doesn't really need to go crazy or maybe you'd have a different philosophy on that but how would you know

what that threshold is for I'm doing something and it's going to continue to work or it's he's going to become numb to it and it's going to become less effective. Yeah, well, Novak's playing the same game there. I mean, Novak. So the way you instill pressure on there is different for each person's game.

You know, your game identity is is everything. If you are not holding on to your game in the moment, you know, then then all goes away. Right. You have to own your game and then the pressure moments you do nothing but. your strengths i mean that's the whole entire goal is i need to be in control of you in the big moments with with the shots in the game that i have so i'm speaking from my lens as far as that there's different ways to be aggressive there in that love 15.

You know, we have a guy that's a counter puncher on our team. You know, he's going to return, but he's going to he's going to return the ball strong to the middle because he wants to play with his forehand. So in that moment, it would look a little bit different instead of, you know.

being a little stingier through the middle part of the court shutting down the backhand cross court and circling to get his forehand he may pace one up the line heavy and slide and immediately get the forehand on the on the inside and start dealing that way and so on so ultimately he would try to finish a net there

at a very high level and probably a little bit quicker right and so in those moments it's playing the i would say it's a great opportunity i wouldn't say it's something you have to do it's just a great opportunity to play like you said like a secondary pattern

or something that just to keep the guy honest or keep your opponent honest a little bit in those moments. But Novak, look, to go back to Novak, with all due respect, that guy is the king at making you suffer, and he traps you inside points, and you as an opponent go,

If I don't play an amazing shot as I'm just getting off balance, Novak's going to run and I've got more pain than I'm going to receive here to the other side of the court. And even if I play my best, I'm not really getting anywhere. So in the pressure moments of a match, in the breaker,

Novak is literally putting you in a corner and going, you have to play the highest of highest of highest risk points just to take one from me. You want to talk about the greatest stress you can ever feel. Well, that's that.

Right. And so no wonder he's 24 out of 25. It's not like you have to have the greatest weapons. But Novak also isn't playing defense in those moments. He's looking for the opportunity to keep you on your heels. And when people get on their heels and they feel desperate, they make bad errors.

right it's ultimately it's the ultimate goal so in big moments forcing errors so when we talk about the breakers that's a completely different animal as the match goes on the stress is through the roof there and errors are your worst are your enemy but forcing somebody to error. That's the game. All right. So phase one was opening. I didn't catch the name of phase two or how you label that.

We can go names. I mean, it's separate, separate yourself. We need to get some separation. So we've been battling and all of a sudden it's like, you know, you see the point starting to move and boom. And to go back, I mean, look, the ultimate goal here, Stokie, is...

hold easy and go deep in your games. And the more I do that throughout a set, if it's six games, the point differential is starting to go. Well, whether you realize it or not, you feel like you're losing. We were playing a game to 21 and I'm up.

15 to eight, you feel like you're getting your butt kicked yet. It could be three all right. So, so psychologically there is a little bit of a spread happening. I'm feeling pretty confident. I'm winning a lot of points. You know, you're like, I haven't won a lot of points yet. you know subconsciously i don't know why i feel icky at three all but then when that pressure rises that sort of takes so it's time i've done the work and i'm sort of you know what this is i'm going to separate here

Okay. So people listening to this or watching this on YouTube could probably see that if you and I were playing, you'd already be up a break on me at some point. You would have already separated because you're operating at a much higher IQ. So what would phase three be after you've created some separation?

I mean, I think, you know, this one is, yeah, look, I mean, once you get your break, if you get your break early, you sort of settle into a situation, right? Like, we've all heard the phrase, I'm hoping that we've all heard the phrase, the best time to break is right after you get broken. Okay, well, why?

like you know if that's a phrase there's meaning behind it it means it's repetitive it happens there's a pattern there in in competitive tennis so we need to pay attention to that right so if i get broken You know, what's happening, you know, on my side of the net, I'm going to be a little ticked off, you know, and typically when something got taken from me or I gave it away, I want it back. So the beginning of the next game, I'm going to come and get it, man, with everything I have.

right and there's going to be a little frustration and a little desperation mixed in with that emotion but it's human nature i want it back you know whether it's my fault or you did a great job either way i'm coming to get you what happens on your side of the net is

you're naturally going to go, Oh, great job, Jonathan. I just did a great job. You know, that was amazing. Yeah, we got the break. Let's go boys. Right. And, and, and there's this elation happening, whether we want to want to recognize it or not. And what's just happened in the matches.

okay the match has actually really started here and now there's a different pressure so the person that that got the break you in this situation are going to do one of two things and this is where i've haven't competed against you personally but

you're going to do one of two things some people when they get something they covet so much they hold on to it so tight that they start pushing and they hold on and they protect it that's one of the worst things you can do after you get a break the other side is we got this

I'm all over this guy and you go out there and you play super high risk and you dump two errors and the other guy hasn't done anything to get back in the match and boom, we're back. Right? Both of those are typical for players. Those are patterns that I see amongst all players. The professional or the elite competitor is going to recognize their situation, whether they're naturally going to get loose or they're going to get tighter. One of those two.

and they're going to have a solution. They're going to go ahead and anticipate this most likely will happen to me because it's part of who I am personally, and this is how I counteract that. It's very important for players to understand that.

this is one of the most pivotal moments in matches where kids or players or even 4.0 players you're going to mess this section up it's what happens in tennis it's one of the most messed up sections of a match so how do you do that for me personally it's you have to know your game you bank on your best in that moment and you better have a plan for it so we are we you know we have first you know we have primary serves and secondary serves in the sense of in those moments what are your

You know, we don't talk about, hey, we're going to work on the serve. We actually go and work on, hey, you just got your break. Let's go work on that first point and first plus one. We have to know what we're doing. And there's a variation of it so we don't become predictable.

But how many times do you up one break in a match? Twice? So in reality, is somebody going to pick that up? Probably not, right? But we need to know what that point looks like. If we can practice that point, then we go out there in that moment and we've got ice in our veins. We're confident and comfortable there.

But if it's always different in that moment, then we don't know why we fumbled it or why we were successful. And it's very hard to get better as a tennis player when it's up to chance or it's chaotic, right? There needs to be a little bit of order in those moments.

Let's bring the opponent into play there. So let's say that I love to have the wide serve and I want to look for my backhand ball. I want to hit the wide serve on the deuce so the opponent has to compress the ball into the ad court up the line.

opening his entire court up giving me the easy backhand to the open part of the court hoping that they open their face and i can come forward perfect play if you were to draw one up in my opinion for that moment you're forcing errors playing over the little part of the net into the big part of the court

and coming forward and making a statement right what if that's one of their best shots in their best returns and that's the decision that players need to know by that point in the match it's now you know 4-2 a break we played six games I should know how to play you at this point. Let's say it's even 2-1 early of a break. We don't truly know but we're going to give our best shot. I'm telling you I'm probably going to go with my best serve in that moment because I don't really know you yet.

But as the match goes on, I can audible and sort of adapt my strategy according to what needs to happen across the net. But I need to have certainty there. So you wonder why the best players are always the ones that sort of win at the end of sets.

when the lower ranked player is playing phenomenal and going high risk or whatever, they don't really know what they're doing. They're just rising to the occasion, which great competitors sort of do. But they're not competing, so to speak, in the moment. And the best player is playing his lower end because of the pressure, the better player. And at that moment, they dig in and they stay methodical in what they're doing. This is how I play this moment. This is what I do.

and typically more often than not they come through seven five or seven six do you find that most players you said uh once you get the break and you're up there's either the protection or like you relax and celebrate as if you've done something, even though you've won literally nothing at that point, you're just leading, which I love when people say,

They walk by and they go, oh, he's winning 4-2. And I'm like, he hasn't won anything. That's right. I like that. Yeah, he's just in the lead. You're using the wrong word. But do you find that most players, when they have a lead like that, are protectors, or do you think most of them start throwing themselves a party because they have a lead in the first six games? More often than not, in high-pressure situations, I would say we have more protectors than...

than gunslingers in those moments. You know, I think, and that's 100% dependent on. The player. I think it's harder to have somebody want to go after their shots in the big moments than it is to somebody to want to protect. And I think that's more of what human nature is and is cultivated at a young age through dialogue, through parents and coaching at a young age. You want a player that is going to be

has the ability to go back dude i'm going to go win the match what are you talking about now you can teach that person how to rein it in a little bit it's very hard to teach the other player to want to be aggressive in the moment when they're so used to just spinning a servant and going please give me errors which is how they've won mostly

to the point where they get to our level in colleges. They win a lot of errors in those moments. I feel like you're going to have an answer for this because you know everything, but what is that psychological, like you said, the upbringing or the dialogue? Because when you say protect, I understand. I felt that as a player. But then at the same time, I don't have anything. What do I have? I'm up a break, but I'm only, whatever, a bad 35 seconds away from being back on serve.

And even if I lose that game, guess what? I'm still up 4-3 on serve and it's still only the first set. Like this really isn't that big of a deal. And yet I am wired to be like, oh my God, well, don't, you know, I don't want to lose this now. Like I just worked so hard for it.

Why is that so ingrained and maybe how how do you help players who are like big time protectors or who have that in their in their hard wiring? Like, how do you help them get over that a little bit? I think the focus has been on winning a lot. I think talk has been a lot about winning when they're young. That naturally makes people want to hold on to the win. Because the break is coveted in our game, especially in the men's game.

Right. As you get older, the break is everything for us. If we get a break now that we can we can almost win here. And so, you know, talking about winning is is is not anything you should do as a coach, especially with juniors. It's talking about the things that allow you to possibly win.

and ultimately competing in the biggest moments is everything that we work for. And so I don't care if you can hit a forehand 800 times in practice. I care if you can hit the forehand cross court six times in a match at four all deuce, right? Like that's the most important thing. And that's why we go play tournaments. It's not to go and win titles. It's to go there and test in pressure moments how we go about it. And so we can come back and work with our coaches and say, you know what?

I made bad decisions at this moment, so I need to be better on my plans. Or it's like this technically broke down. So it looks good in practice when there's no pressure and I'm joking around. But when I go out and play in big moments, why am I missing the forehand all of a sudden?

You know, it starts at a young age, you know, no doubt. And, you know, high level, the ceilings of players are typically built off of the language that is given to them when they're young. I mean, it's... you know my father was a master at it he was he was a master at talking about the moment you know and it was always built around playing well in the moment and so you know it's like having a smile on your face this is why we're here this is the whole point

Thank God my competitor, my opponent across the net played well enough so we could be here in this moment because that's the whole point of the sport. It's awesome. And you see those competitors out there with their smiles on their faces in those moments going, this is awesome.

like chills are going through my veins like this is so cool right like the ones and ones aren't fun but if you have been taught how to put importance on winning ones and ones are amazing because you're getting congratulated by your parents and your coaches for them

You know, no, it's like ones and ones. We look at it, you know, we teach our guys to shake hands. It's a big moment for us. It's part of our outlook on the matches. We walk to the net and it's a one and one match. I'm not really happy about that. We don't say. good playing to our opponent because they didn't dig deep enough to actually do what we needed as a player to compete against each other so we just shake their hand and don't say anything right and if somebody

comes out there and the Gamecocks aren't bringing what we need to bring to the table to make it a quality match so we can have fun together, then we say sorry. I love that. And when somebody does win or lose, we're like, thank you.

That was awesome, man. That was so cool. Thanks. Right. And that's when we actually share that moment at net with somebody. And it's like that moment's coming. So then that defines how we play the match. Talk to me then. So that's phase three. What is phase four? Okay.

Closing, I mean, yeah, I wouldn't say it's the phase four because, you know, you can sometimes just blow through it, right? You know, and so that's the one thing. It's not so methodical in that way. You can skip ahead to other phases and so on. Right off the bat, if a guy's not ready to go, you might be able to break right off the bat.

So the opening turns into up a break and things along those lines. You have to be able to not look at this as it's so rigid. It's very fluid and nuanced. So the closing is another area where players get tight, especially at the end of the match.

matches but the closing okay closing is like okay now i really have the opportunity to win right you know okay and sometimes you break to be able to serve out serve out the match right or serve out the set and now there's a couple things happening there one i've got to close i'm super nervous two this person across the net my opponent is absolutely coming after me oh god right and this is when this is when everything you know you see kids just start shaking at the knees and so on and so forth so

Again, it's no different, but this is where that gunslinger mentality of I'm going to win the match. I've got to go win the match here and I've got to go win the set. And so how do you go about it? if we don't have a plan there we're going to fail we're going to fall to human nature we're going to buckle most likely unless we have some nice help from the opponent so on one end if i'm closing and not being closed on if i'm the person that's closing serving uh out the set

at this point man you know you're going with your bread and butter it's like what we talked about earlier you're going with what you've done but by this point you played 11 games nine games whatever it might be you need to know the money holes on the guy across the net you should know exactly where you're serving you should know exactly how to play points you should know exactly where to defend to get back to neutral so you can control the guy be able to finish

And these are very important points. So finishing ultimately at the end with a sort of high shoulder volley, however you want to get there, is ideal. We don't want to just bully our way in if it's not part of our game because we want to be aggressive because you're going to set yourself up for disaster.

Right. That person, you have to count on that person stepping up in that moment across the net. They are going to play their best tennis there. And that needs to be your expectation as a guy that's closing. A question for you. So when I'm watching, especially if I'm watching 3-5-4-0 adults or lower level juniors or even lower level D1 guys, and let's say we get to that point where it's 5-4 in the first set, I feel like a lot of times...

I would watch someone just lose more. Usually the guy who was down the break would actually just give our guy the set. It wasn't like our guy did anything that great. I felt like the other guy just imploded. And so my guy never had to really step up and win that. And when they were put in that... position that's when they struggled like oh my god i'm actually gonna have to win this 5-4 game and they weren't prepared for that what is besides having a plan of what's my best serve

Is there an emotional or routine or anything like that that you've used with your players in the past that have helped them want to step up in that big moment? Or like you said, like, oh, it's time to win. That's very easy to say. It's very tough to feel and embody when you're in that moment. So how do you help players get to that point? Yeah, the first thing is having clarity in what you're trying to do.

I don't care who the opponent is. It could be my grandma or it could be Federer. It's like, this is how I play this point. Here's the temperature of what I do. I'm trying to get forward here with a high four-hand volley. If I naturally am prone to come forward a little bit more, and that's part of...

you know the positives or the strengths that i have i'll play my game and come forward on you a little bit sooner but but even our our counter punchers i need to be able to prove to myself that i'm willing to go and get the match get the set now

Look, if it doesn't get there, which a lot of times it does not get there because the opponent buckles, that's also the guy that I'm not going to go and shake his hand and be like, dude, you were awesome today. Right. That's the one that's like you cowered in the big moment and I didn't have to work. And ultimately, that is my goal.

of starting out and applying pressure is i want you going back to the original comments of the start of the pod is i want to stack as much pressure on you as possible so you know that no matter what you do i'm going to finish

So therefore you're going to take the easy way out. Like all human nature does says is you're going to go. I don't even if I do play my best and solid, he's going to have an answer. So I might as well just do something stupid. And then in the moment we're like overthinking as an opponent and we crash out.

Cool. Awesome. That was easy. That was my plan. But just in case, my expectation is that you will have the juice here and I do need to have an answer for whatever you bring. And that is the way we talk as far as Look, man, you can bring whatever you want, but I know I have an answer here. I don't know what it might be, but I'll have an answer because that's what I do. Talk to me about phase five.

So that is sort of well that's like let's say you just won the set, right? So one of the biggest momentum swings that you see in professional tennis 4.0 tennis any sort of tennis is the ultimate elation of winning a set

we're losing the set and then the start of the next one it's like we had one of the best players in the country here you know left a year ago and and this is a major issue initially it was i get up a break and then i i just give it back cool so then we got through that and he understood that phase and then it was like i'm just absolutely tanking somebody six one in the first six two all over this guy no competitive level compared to what i'm bringing but then i go on this walkabout

and i don't even know where i am and how and all of a sudden i'm down like love three all of a sudden and and from a tennis to tennis perspective you know this guy doesn't hold a candle but it's like it's strictly self-inflicted in this moment so if that's happening

How can we ignore that? Because it's something that happens across the board. So we need to prepare for that. If that's a repeated pattern of a player of yours, or a repeated pattern of yours as a player, we need to have a solution, or at least...

any sort of plan right off the bat and then you can always adjust it but if you continue just to walk through that moment like it's just another part of the match then the the situation is always going to dictate the outcome there versus you dictating that outcome

I heard a coach say like you would never, if you and I are just playing a game, we're at Kalamazoo and in between points we go, hey, do you just want to see who can roll the ball from the baseline to the net as close as possible without hitting the net? And what's my best out of three?

and you did it the first time and you're up 1-0, you wouldn't be like, oh my God, I got this. You're up 1-0 in a race to two. It's literally no type of lead. But when people win a set, they act as if, oh, I just won the set. That's great. But you still have to win a whole other one. You're up 1-0 in a race to two. Like it is really not that big a lead. And yet people, like you said, will celebrate or relax.

or lose focus when the reality should be, especially when you're playing a 10-point tiebreaker for the third. Oh, my God. All you have to do is win a set and a breaker. Right. Winning the first set has only guaranteed you that you get to play a breaker now. It's like, oh, good. But you don't really have that big of a...

lead so i find that a lot of people some players i know their coaches either bribe them and they say hey if you you know if you break that first game of the second you know i'm going to give you whatever 10 bucks or i'm going to let you out of this running but which, which actually honestly works, but like, so, so is your advice then you win that you win or lose that first set and you go, Hey, these first two to three games.

are monumental like this is going to swing the match either i'm going to be able to close the door on this guy right away or i'm going to be up 3-0 which basically means i'm i could be tied here in about 15-20 minutes yeah it's it's like Yeah, it's like 2x, 3x momentum right there. I mean, it's the biggest swing in a match possibility. So you lose that first set, it's okay. You need to take a deep breath, get on the changeover.

and be ready to go and you've got a massive gap that you can shoot through right there and completely get ahead of the situation counting on the fact that you know your opponent will leave the door open a little for you and you're going to have to kick it down but you've got to be ready for that and a lot of players

get so obsessed with the loss of the first set that they're so internal at that point thinking about all how bad a day it is and so on versus immediately cutting bait and going cool this is the situation that we have to be in right now I need all attention moving forward on this part because I do have a major opportunity here. If you understand that that is a massive opening for you as the person that lost it, it's easier to drop the baggage that we've been carrying around.

you know especially if you were down maybe a double break you play the rest of that set with like yeah you can have the set opponent that's fine but i'm going to start playing the game and figuring out and dismantling you disrupting you and also getting my game ready to shoot that gap in the beginning of the second right and it's like

These are strategies that all pros use when they go down double break. And when I mention pros, they're just the best at the game that we play. So it's not like you can't do this as a 3-0 player or a junior player. It's just that they just do it. They understand the flows and matches better. Now, they still fall victim to them, just like we all do, right? So if you are the person that just won the first, you need to have a healthy fear that that part of the match can

immediately flip you on your back, and now you're the one that's technically down in the moment, right? Even though you're upset, you can be down a break, and momentum's moving fast the other direction, and you've got to go win that match. You've got to go get it back. So how do you play that moment?

Knowing that the opponent has a score reset called 0-0, a lot of people are like, okay, match starts now after they lost it. You need to anticipate that, that your opponent's probably going to come out and be surprised. when they don't come out with authority and fire in the beginning of the second. Be excited about that, but expect them to come out with everything that they possibly have and have a healthy fear about it. Now, does that apply pressure to players? Absolutely.

it applies pressure to the one that just won the first but awareness of anything in tennis applies pressure but we have to be able to have that and then once we do it enough and we become comfortable with that moment we sort of become dulled to the pressure or dulled to the moment, so to speak. So we become comfortable opening. Again, this is how I open. But your perspective and your expectations in the moment of what your opponent is going to do is ultimately where we really mess up.

competitively because we want the match to continue the way that it finished in the first set with the opponent cracking under pressure and making errors at the end or us you know going out there and hitting a serve and hitting a plus one for a winner

That is not going to happen in the beginning of the second set. That is not going to happen because your opponent is going to reset mentally. Now, they're not 100% reset mentally, but they've got a little breath of fresh air going on in their lungs.

Your job is to realize that you don't need to win the first three games. You need to go back to imposing your game and just remind them from a game standpoint, this is happening. I'm just going to be the mirror for you, just so you remember. Remember how you cracked?

in the big moments there yeah i'm going back this ain't stopping because that memory that you immediately rejuvenate for them is going to bring a healthy fear back in their eyes in that moment so your goal and your strategy there in the moment is

This is what I do. So for you, going back to what we spoke about, you're going to hit and charge early there, right down the middle part of the court, not to the corners. You're going to let them know. You're going to give me your best and I have an answer for it. I don't need to play phenomenal. I need to be solid.

and aggressive and put you on your heels here i'm not letting you back in the match and as long as i can prove that to you you're going to go this guy doesn't stop you've mentioned twice now if i get up a break in the first or if i'm up

uh i've won the first set right that you're like someone's going to come back at you hard hey you took something from me or i gave it to you and i want it back i also find and you probably have found this that the world is not full of amazing competitors like there's a lot of people who

get down that break or get down that set and it's oh poor me and you can see them you know kind of lose some energy if that is the case and you play an opponent who looks like that as the person who's ahead how should you handle that situation should you play faster should you play

more concertedly because you know they're they're just going to give it to you do you play a little more aggressively like when you play the oh poor me i just lost something and i'm feeling down about myself is there any great question it's a great question

got to be careful the oh poor me guy across the net because that oh poor me guy if you if you if you go and try to play too fast in those moments free errors free points back will kind of go well maybe i should try a little bit here Maybe I should go back in there. And then the other one is the one that I always feel worried about is playing too conservative in those moments because, you know, the work that's been done, the fear.

is gone once you just start making balls and then at some point the player's gonna go like why am i missing there's nothing going on here and then they start playing a little more aggressive and then now you're on your heels and now your psyche is getting messed up because you're being controlled by them and that's the easiest way to have a match flip is playing too passive in those moments so so what's the mix of those two and regardless it's always forcing errors when you are ahead in matches

The blanket rule is force your opponent to error. Figure out. And you should know that if you're winning already. You should know those buttons that you need to push. So you're not trying to hit the highlight reel. You're not trying to play too conservative. And that is your number one priority for the rest of the match is keeping them on their heels, not going for the knockout punch. I promise you it's both sides of the coin. Let players back in.

If you can find the discipline to mentally stay there and continue to force errors and have an understanding tactically how you're going to go about that, you're going to be successful in tennis. Talk to me. I believe we've gone through five. What is the last phase? I'm going to say that again. It's still early morning here. All right. So we've gone through five phases.

I think there's only six that you had labeled. I know, like you said, these are not exact numbers that you've played in four games, whatever. But what is the last phase of a match? Well, my dad and I sort of labeled this one the all or nothing here.

and he really liked that language and i do too because it's in in really for junior tennis it's it's when you're playing that that that 10-point tiebreaker or you're playing a breaker for the entire match i mean you see it on tour right now as well it's like you know you're at seven six in the third

it's for everything uh the 10 point breaker was really what we were thinking about when we sort of put that one down and and you know the big question is how do you play that right like how do you play breakers when the entire match is gone and it's literally coming down to those

Next set of points. Right. And, you know, to me, again, I'm big into development and learning and I want to be able to have a plan, even if it's a bad plan. So I need to know how I want to construct that breaker. But most importantly.

tactically you should already have how i'm going to go about that this is what's working against this player but my strategy in the breaker is no different than it they are all very large points you know there's a nuance in there you know if you get up six one that's much different than being at say three four right and you probably want to go back to the rules we just kind of spoke about it's a miniature match inside that breaker

But everything is heightened when the pressure is heightened. Every point is worth a little bit more and the swings can happen. So forcing errors. The majority of tennis, that's the way you want to play the majority of the time, is you want to play solid enough, but you definitely want to put the opponent on their heels. And if there's ever a time where your opponent's going to start making bad errors, it's going to be then. I know.

I know a Gamecock would never do this in a breaker, but I mean, when you say, let's say a 10-point tiebreaker is 10-8, that's 18 points. I mean, it's kind of like two and a half games, right? I mean, you got to win four points to win a game. So you're saying I got to win 10. That's two and a half games, which is almost half a set. But people view it as.

this small thing. So if they get up 5-1, they're like, oh, like, oh, I'm up 5-1. Like, it's like, you're more than a game away from winning this. It's a full game's worth of points for you. Do you find that people...

I guess you find that a breaker is actually the 10 pointer, especially is longer than people think where there's more swings, where people don't account for that, basically. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, a seven point breaker, if you get to four or five, I mean, yes, players lose those all the time.

But much harder to swing that momentum back in your direction. I mean, the gap is minimal, you know, that you have open. And you need a little help from the friend across the net to open that door. 5-1, nothing's really, you know, you're down. At that situation, if I'm down in that situation, it's like, look, I need two here.

You know, I've got to pick up where if it's 5-2, I got to pick up both my serves to get me to 5-4. I need one off of his. So, you know, that gets to 6-5. I need two for mine. Okay, cool. I'm a 7-6. I'm right back in. So don't panic. Like, what are we doing panicking? You know, like, relax.

But again, it's understanding how a breaker would move so you can have perspective in the moment that I don't need to panic. And I think that's the whole point of having phases of a match is really understanding how matches go, how matches run.

i mean there's only so many avenues a match can take and you need to know how you're going to respond or how you're going to act in every single one of those and if you do that as a player it brings calm it brings clarity to the moment and when players are calm and they have clarity

They play their best tennis, right? Most of the time people are talking about choking or getting nervous and it's because there's chaos in the brain, right? They care heavily about what's going on, but they don't understand how they're going to be successful.

So a lot of players will just panic and start throwing stuff at the wall and seeing if it sticks. Okay. And then some players will go hide in a corner, right? It's like, but if you have a plan, you can have the courage to walk along that plan. and see if it works now as a coach and a player we can go talk about how that plan did or did not work in that moment after the match then we can refine that plan and we can go practice the things that will allow the refinement to work

And then we can go plug it and play it the next match or whatever. And that's what wins are for. Wins and losses tell you what's worked and what doesn't work, right? You want an opponent that will help you learn. about your game so you can make the refinements and move forward to the next match if you win in a tournament you get to do it again in two hours how cool is that it's not about getting to the quarters it's about getting another opportunity while the memory is fresh

So you can have a repeat and go fix that and lock it in because development happens at nitric speed in tournaments. It does. When there's pressure, you lock it in. You absolutely do. But the biggest frustration that I have sometimes is players come off and they go, I played well today or I played bad today. No, no.

Your ball striking was just much better than the other player, so you didn't have to do anything except keep the ball on the court. It's going to inevitably work. But the other side of the coin is, no, I'm sorry. That person moved better than you, served better than you, returned better than you, and had better shot quality.

There wasn't much you could do. Now, when matches are sort of even as you progress through tournaments or you're in certain levels, the good, the nuances and the momentums and these things, how you compete in a match really, really matters. And so ultimately by being a great competitor and understanding the phases, all it does is bring your bottom level up. It ensures that you are going to be in the matches. You're not going to have those natural pitfalls that just continue to happen.

So your consistency of quality throughout a tournament or throughout seasons, throughout years as a developmental player, it ensures that there's going to be consistency there. And that's obviously what defines great players is the ability to continue to grow. throughout their careers throughout their years throughout tournaments this was predictably

I think actually this was the fastest hour of the podcast I've ever done through three or four years because you know I eat this stuff up. And if anyone listening would know, this is basically what I would make Josh do when we were recruiting is I would just pick his brain like this. It's absolutely phenomenal.

And I know everyone needs social proof or they need proof of everything. Can you share? I know you might not want to do this. Can you share before the podcast, you said what you guys have been ranked or what special group you've been in over the last decade? Yeah. I mean, it's okay. So can I provide a little context? You can. I'll allow it. Yeah. Okay. All right. There's, yeah. So we had a new AD come in here and so on. And we were asked to sort of gather.

gather information about how successful we've been and so on. So our sports information director, which helps us with all this, went back deep. And so for the last decade, we're one of five teams in the entire country to be inside 25, you know, and yeah, I mean, that's, that's pretty rarefied air considering that the other ones, you know, are, are,

you know, they're all national champions, let's just say. You know, for us, we are consistently getting there. But I think it speaks to the commitment of our players throughout the years, just from era to era to buy into. the things that we're talking about but you know they they love the moment we're trying to teach them about the moment and ultimately that makes makes tennis a lot more fun they fall in love with it um and that i think what we're talking about you know john

The phases of the match allows kids, allows adults, where the gains get a little smaller as they get older or get further along in the game. When you become better, it's harder to have gains. We lose the joy a little bit in what we do. it becomes work uh you know we have to work hard to be able to be better this brings the game back into things this is sort of game theory and it and it really gets kids and guys wanting to compete again and they they love it

And there's smiles on their faces and they're like, did you see how I played that moment? And you can hear it in the locker room. It's so cool when you walk in and this is when the locker room is great. They're like, oh man, in that moment, did you hear it? Did you see that? Oh, I made that guy crumble.

he checked out there do you see that i mean and when they're talking about that you're like dude this is the best thing ever right um and that's when you know it so i think a lot of it has to do with with our guys they just buy in and have a good time with it i'm this is on the fly I honest to God, you are on my personal Mount Rushmore of coaches that I can learn from. So I don't know. I don't know who the four names are, but I know Louie Kaye is on there.

And I know you are right next to me. I don't know who my other two are. But this is an absolute treat for me. You've given me a ton to think about this afternoon, especially how I want to coach moving forward. But absolutely amazing. And thank you so much for your time.

Yeah, this has been awesome. I love it. All right, I want to thank Josh for coming on the pod again. Obviously, the theme from today's episode is having a plan for all these situations so that you can have clarity on your game style and what you're going to do in these pressure situations.

My favorite little nugget from today was when he said they don't say good match at the net when they beat someone one-on-one. They're disappointed they didn't get the chance to be pushed, to show how they can fight through adversity and dig deep. They want the chance for it to be close so they can be in that moment.

I think that's a phenomenal reframe as most of us want things to be easy and avoid those tense up in the air moments. Reminder to click on the camp and ADV links in the show notes for more information. I hope to see a few of you out in Indian Wells next spring. Thanks again for listening. I hope you just improved to tennis without even hitting a ball.