Are You REALLY Safe at the Doctor? Dr. Uché Blackstock Explains The Real Reason We Mistrust Hospitals

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Dig selv se en sag om asking for hvad der kan betegnes. Er. 00;02;03;19 - 00;02;32;29 Speaker 1 En exploitation kendt af Axel i mit første gavekort siden var at er lidt for pau fucking cruise for black på. En så. Tøjsæt til. Så gæt hvad det du kampe i san esprit league så skriv en server der. Enjoy! 00;02;32;29 - 00;02;34;19 Speaker 2 Good evening, New Orleans. 00;02;34;19 - 00;02;44;04 Speaker 2 I am going to bring up doctor OJ Blackstock. Okay. Good evening. 00;02;44;04 - 00;02;47;29 Speaker 2 So welcome to New Orleans. Welcome to Baldwin and Company 00;02;47;29 - 00;03;04;15 Speaker 2 As you can see, you have a packed room waiting to hear you and your insight and to have a what I hope will be, I think will be, I'm sure, will be a very insightful conversation. I know you want it to begin with reading a couple of pages of your book. 00;03;04;15 - 00;03;07;19 Speaker 2 Yes. So we'll do that and then we'll get into our conversation. 00;03;07;20 - 00;03;31;21 Speaker 3 Okay. I also just want to thank Baldwin Company for hosting this book event. I see a lot of friends in the room and family in the room. I just want to say thank you for coming out to support. I usually, start my book events. Everyone back there hear me? You can hear me. Okay. By reading just from the first two pages. 00;03;31;24 - 00;03;58;13 Speaker 3 20 pages of the book. Just to give you some context for who I am, for those who may not know me every single year would like to see. When I was a little girl, my twin sister Toni and I used to visit her mother at work. Her name was doctor Dale Gloria Blackstock, and in the 1980s and 90s she was an attending physician at Kings County Hospital Center, one of the public hospitals in Brooklyn, not far from our home in Crown Heights. 00;03;58;16 - 00;04;22;03 Speaker 3 Our mother worked long hours at her job, and so sometimes we'd head to the hospital after school to see her and do our homework. Walking down the disinfectant scented hallways, our shoes squeaking on the floors, we'd make our way to the large, echoing cafeteria where we pull out our textbooks from our backpacks and settle down to work alongside the physicians, nurses, technicians, and aides. 00;04;22;03 - 00;04;48;11 Speaker 3 Taking a break. The staff behind the counter and us? Well, especially because we strongly resembled our mother and would smile warmly and ask. Visiting your mother today, after homework was done, we sneak into her clinic to ask her for small change to spend on our favorite red Jell-O. She'd hand it to us, and if we were quiet, let us stay and observe for a minute or two as she examined a patient. 00;04;48;14 - 00;05;22;15 Speaker 3 Our mother was warm but serious with those in her care. Occasionally, her face would reveal a smile, but more often than not, she was extremely focused on what they were saying and what was going on in their lives. After all, she'd grown up in the same Brooklyn neighborhood where the hospital was located. The daughter of a single mother from new Jersey raised on public assistance, she'd become the first person her family to graduate college and after graduating from Harvard Medical School in 1976, she'd returned home to her community at Kings County, Suny downstate. 00;05;22;16 - 00;05;47;18 Speaker 3 She wasn't just taking care of her patients. She was tending to her neighbors in her interactions with them. She always seemed to know as much about their children and families as she did about their respective medical problems. When you came in for a visit with Doctor Blackstock, you weren't only having your blood pressure or cholesterol checked. You were also meeting with someone who was going to assess how your whole being was faring. 00;05;47;21 - 00;06;14;02 Speaker 3 I believe our mother practice what is now known as structurally competent and culturally responsive care, which means that the entire complex nature of the patient's background and the social context in which they live, love, work, and pray is considered during evaluation. And her patients loved her for it. She was always bringing home little gifts from them a knitted shawl, homemade cookies, cake, tokens of appreciation. 00;06;14;05 - 00;06;36;25 Speaker 3 My sister and I were only 19 years old in 1997, when we lost our mother to leukemia, and she was just 47. She died too young, but by then her influence had indelibly rubbed off on us. Our mother's passion for learning, her dogged perseverance and a commitment to serving her community heavily influence our own decisions to become physicians. 00;06;36;27 - 00;07;04;11 Speaker 3 On the night. Both graduated from Harvard College and then attended Harvard Medical School. The schools for black mother daughter legacy graduates like her. We both went to work with historically underserved populations after graduating. My sister and Montefiore Hospital in the Bronx while I went to train at King's County, Suny Downstate in Brooklyn, following in our mother's footsteps. In the years since then, I had felt her by my side in so many of my own interactions with patients. 00;07;04;14 - 00;07;20;07 Speaker 3 Her ability to listen to and truly care continues to be a model for me, and it's something that our patients are crying out for now more than ever. Thank you. 00;07;20;09 - 00;07;55;23 Speaker 2 Hey, Laurie and Danny, I see people I know in the in the audience. It really is a beautiful book. How many of you have read it already? Okay, so you came with questions tonight? I'm struck by an anecdote. Near the beginning of your book is the height of the Covid epidemic. You're in full PPE gear, mask and mask on top of the mask and, hazard suit and visor. 00;07;55;26 - 00;08;22;24 Speaker 2 And a black woman that you you're treating and asks you, are you black because you can't see, any part of your skin or any part of your face? That question has such weight to it. Talk about that particular question and how you received it, what it meant to that woman, and to even formulate that question. 00;08;22;25 - 00;08;42;17 Speaker 3 Yeah. So I'll just share the story with those of you who haven't read the book yet. But, you know, I so spring 2020, I had I thought life was good before everything went sideways. I had left my career in academic medicine, which we'll talk about, and I was focusing on building my company, my consulting firm, advancing health equity. 00;08;42;22 - 00;09;08;06 Speaker 3 I was working part time in urgent care and then March hit and and, you know, even though I was working in urgent care at the time, I was still seeing a lot of patients with Covid. And one thing became clear to me was that my patients were getting browner as the weeks went on. And so I remember walking into what seemed like an endless series of exam rooms to find this young woman. 00;09;08;08 - 00;09;30;09 Speaker 3 This was probably in April. Who was there, for shortness of breath after being diagnosed with Covid. A few weeks earlier. And as I walked into the room, she was hunched over her head in her hands and she got up, looked up at me and gave me a quick once over and I said, hi, I'm Doctor Blackstock, how can I help you today? 00;09;30;12 - 00;09;50;26 Speaker 3 And she said, can I ask you something? Are you black? And I realized, like you said, like she couldn't see. I literally I was head to toe PPE at that time because there was so much we didn't know. My locs were in a bonnet. I had goggles on, double masks, shoe coverings, like literally everything. And so I said, yes, I am. 00;09;50;28 - 00;10;15;08 Speaker 3 And she let out a deep breath and said, thank you, doc. At least I know you'll take care of me. And I said, I promise. And I just realized, obviously in that moment, I was I had several feelings. I was so happy to be that doctor that she needed. But I also obviously felt very upset that she had seemed to have previous experiences where she felt like she wasn't listened to. 00;10;15;10 - 00;10;30;07 Speaker 3 And so those are that's a moment I that has stayed in my mind forever, that I will never forget. Because also it it emphasized to me the importance of our presence as black health professionals. 00;10;30;09 - 00;10;57;05 Speaker 2 Today, we're in a new type of era when we were choosing medical care, where we were usually going to some hospital or clinics website, and they say, if you need this person and this particular person in this field, you drop down menu. Maybe it's just me, maybe it's not just me, but probably not just me. But I'm always looking for the black doctors. 00;10;57;07 - 00;10;59;01 Speaker 1 Somebody who's right, who's wrong. 00;10;59;02 - 00;11;00;15 Speaker 3 Yeah, who dropped down. 00;11;00;15 - 00;11;17;16 Speaker 2 And those menu. What do patients come to you specifically expect them. And she said that you were going to listen to her. Are there other things that black patients come to expect from your black doctors? 00;11;17;18 - 00;11;45;10 Speaker 3 So I think to to answer that, I when I go into the I talked about my mother in the beginning, you know, of the intro. And you know, I grew up we talked about this earlier with a different reality. I grew up thinking that most physicians were black because that was my reality growing up in Brooklyn. You know, I had, a black pediatrician, my mother would take us to meetings of the local black physician organization, and I'd be in this room. 00;11;45;10 - 00;12;15;10 Speaker 3 I was telling you, with these brilliant folks who look just like me, who were talking about programs and projects specific to our black Brooklyn community. And so it wasn't until I probably was in college, in medical school that I realized that wasn't the case. But for me, what that means is that you're a physician or physician. Your health professional understands you in a way where you don't have to explain everything and that you feel listened to, you feel valued, and you feel appreciated. 00;12;15;10 - 00;12;23;19 Speaker 3 I mean, the fact is, is that even myself as a physician, I look for black health professionals, unlike all my health professionals are black. 00;12;23;22 - 00;12;24;07 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00;12;24;10 - 00;12;50;28 Speaker 3 You know, my my game is a black woman MP. Actually my, my primary care provider is actually a black woman MP too. So I'm all across disciplines too. So, so I think, and I talk about another story in the book about, an older black man that I had around that same time who was very, very sick but said, I don't want to go to the E.R. because they're not going to treat people like me. 00;12;50;28 - 00;13;08;13 Speaker 3 Well. And he ended up going home. Right. And so we think about, you know, what does that mistrust, distrust, like the level of unmet needs in our communities because of that. 00;13;08;15 - 00;13;38;28 Speaker 2 I shared with Doctor Blackstock last week, column that I wrote many years ago. So Doctor Cheryl is coming up on five years. February 24th would be five years since I had a kidney transplant. And, her husband and I are like kidney transplant buddies, and they. You and he walked me and Kelly through the process. So you know how grateful we are to you all for that. 00;13;39;00 - 00;14;20;23 Speaker 2 But I share with Doctor Blackstock a column I wrote when I kind of announced my kidney disease diagnosis to the world. And the focus of the column was how I almost always dressed up to go to the doctor. Usually shirt and tie, sometimes suit and tie. And I realize in part because reading your book and talking, talking to you about this, how much shame I was carrying, like the object here is like, I don't want you to make these kind of kneejerk assumptions about me because I have kidney disease and I don't want you kind of like, oh, well, you probably didn't, or you probably should have. 00;14;20;23 - 00;14;48;07 Speaker 2 I blame you. Yeah, yeah. And I and I'm thinking now, I probably wouldn't have brought those issues and probably not have brought the same wardrobe I've had. I've been dealing with black nephrologists and so that kind of difference, like, I don't I don't do that when I go to my primary care physician who's a black woman. But I did do those things in other kind of specialty appointments. 00;14;48;10 - 00;14;54;23 Speaker 3 And, and we talked about that experience you had, right where your doctor. Yeah. And where you went to college. 00;14;54;23 - 00;15;21;17 Speaker 2 Yeah. So, so at that point, Ochsner had a fellowship for their nephrologist, and it was a rotating type of thing. So you might see a particular physician for 3 or 4 weeks, maybe two months. And so I'm all again, I'm always dressing up always like trying to make this kind of best presentation. And so this particular doctor says, oh, this is probably the last time I'm seeing you. 00;15;21;17 - 00;15;43;17 Speaker 2 I'm going to take a position at Washington University. And I reflexively say, oh, I went there and his eyes widen, as in you. And I was like, well, I be damn, I've been trying to impress folks in always time. And it's pretty much, you know, you're. Yeah, right. And so, so it was a moment for me to just say, you know what? 00;15;43;19 - 00;15;46;05 Speaker 2 You know, this, it doesn't even matter, right? 00;15;46;12 - 00;16;10;12 Speaker 3 Yeah. And we talked about like kind of there's just that stress of having to perform. Yeah. Or having to give like your 200, 300, 400%. Correct. Right. And we talked about even, you know, as parents of children, right. With our kids like not wanting to instill that saying like, yeah, do your best. Yeah. But that's a lot of pressure to be like, you always have to give your 200 or 300% or. 00;16;10;12 - 00;16;16;27 Speaker 2 You always have to be always. It always have to be, always have to be, you know, just kind of, you know. 00;16;16;28 - 00;16;17;23 Speaker 3 Proving yourself. 00;16;17;25 - 00;16;42;19 Speaker 2 TV really kind of kind of attitude. I, I want you to talk specifically, not just the obviously, the legacy in part is that you and your twin sister have an MD, as your mother had an MD, but the legacy also seems to be where you choose to practice and how you think about what medicine ought to be. 00;16;42;19 - 00;16;43;03 Speaker 3 Yes. 00;16;43;03 - 00;17;01;27 Speaker 2 And that is not necessarily I don't think I'm sure. And you mentioned it. You went to Harvard Medical School with second and third generation doctors. They are a legacy of themselves, but not the same kind of legacy that you and your sister have. 00;17;02;00 - 00;17;22;11 Speaker 3 You know, it's a it's interesting because I remember when I, when I was writing the book, my my editor, I love her, but she but she's like, okay, what are people going to say especially into this conversation we're having about legacy admissions and the fact that, you know, you and your sister and your mom were the first first black mother daughter legacy from Harvard. 00;17;22;11 - 00;17;30;25 Speaker 3 Are they get a question like the the validity of that. And I'm like, that is so different. Like you cannot compare generations. 00;17;30;27 - 00;17;32;15 Speaker 1 Of the. 00;17;32;18 - 00;17;59;02 Speaker 3 White legacy not you literally one. And actually since since 2005, when my sister graduated from Harvard Med, there's only been one other black mother daughter legacy from Harvard Medical School. And so, you know, I always want to make sure that we are really acknowledging that predominantly white institutions need to do so much better and that, you know, they're like, you know, putting themselves on their back about having 1 or 2. 00;17;59;09 - 00;18;26;02 Speaker 3 And really, it should be many more. And specifically, when I think about my mother, I think about how when I was younger, I was so very much and still and very much proud of all that she accomplished and all of the barriers that she had to overcome. But at the same time, I have so much sympathy. Also an anger that she had to go through all of that, and that there were people from her neighborhood who probably should have also been at Harvard Medical School. 00;18;26;09 - 00;18;56;22 Speaker 3 Right. And so I talk about thinking about my mom. I used to think that she was exceptional and she was exceptional. But the fact is that there were many other brilliant children from her neighborhood who didn't have the same chances because of racism, because of poverty. Right. And so one thing that I loved that my mother role modeled for us is the fact that, yes, you can go off to these institutions and take advantage of those resources, and then you can actually go back and work in service to your community. 00;18;56;22 - 00;19;25;22 Speaker 3 So what's interesting is in the 70s, when my mother graduated in the mid 70s from Harvard Medical School, there was a big Harvard Medical School, Harlem Hospital residency pipeline. So if you actually go to a lot of the Harvard Medical School alumni events or Harvard Harlem Hospital, there are a lot of graduates that think they were very intentional about making sure that they went back to their communities to practice, and so I feel like that was what I was exposed to growing up. 00;19;25;24 - 00;19;43;06 Speaker 3 Yeah. Where it's like, yeah, you can go. My mother didn't even she didn't apply to any of the the teaching at Harvard teaching hospitals. She's like, I want to go back to, to New York City. And I think that is about, you know, defining like, what is success for you? That's something that I, you know, I write about in the book and that I struggled with as well. 00;19;43;08 - 00;20;09;15 Speaker 3 You know, we are spoon fed this idea of what success looks like. Right? Looks like certain type of job working at a certain institution. And then you get there, right. And then you are, undervalued. You're you're mistreated. Yeah. You know, and so, that's something that, you know, these are conversations I wish I could have with my mother now because I didn't appreciate them as a 19 year old. 00;20;09;20 - 00;20;41;10 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. One of the things that I love that you do in this book is that you flip the concept of black people not trusting the medical establishment into the medical establishment, not being trustworthy to black people. Talk about your specific phrasing to to because it completely flips the way that that conversation is. So typically. 00;20;41;13 - 00;21;05;16 Speaker 3 Hell yes. Yes. I talk about institutional Untrustworthiness. So institutional Untrustworthiness. Because how like the narrative is always about like us being the problem. Right. Or you know, why why would you, why are you having these doubts. Right. Why why are you not trusting these institutions. And, and so that's why also the other piece of the legacy of the book. 00;21;05;16 - 00;21;32;06 Speaker 3 So obviously it's about being a second generation black woman physician. But it's also about really digging, digging a little bit deeper into our history. As a country, to see how, you know, black communities have been exploited, have like, physicians have been mistreated. Yeah. That's why I thought it was so important to talk about the Flexner Report in the book, because I didn't even I didn't know about Abraham Flexner until I was a practicing physician. 00;21;32;10 - 00;21;34;24 Speaker 2 Yeah. Talk more about that, because that was news to me. 00;21;34;28 - 00;22;02;09 Speaker 3 Yes. And so Representative Ayanna Pressley, she always talks. She talks about policy violence. And, you know, we this this idea that policies can cause violence to our communities in ways that, you know, we may not see the impact so soon. So like, we know, like what redlining has done to our neighborhoods, right. That that, you know, the neighborhoods with the worst health outcomes today are the neighborhoods that were redlined in the 30s and 40s. 00;22;02;11 - 00;22;33;22 Speaker 3 But Flexner Report, you know, how many people know about the Flexner? 49 people know now. But so, you know, it was a report that was, commissioned by the American Medical Association and Carnegie Foundation in 1910. They asked a education specialist, specialist name, Abraham Flexner, a white man who actually held avidly racist views. In his own writings, he felt like black medical students, like the only reason they should be in medical school with white students is to prevent sanatoriums to prevent white students from getting sick. 00;22;33;25 - 00;22;55;27 Speaker 3 So this is the kind of person that was commissioned to go around to all 155 U.S. and Canadian medical schools to assess them against the gold standards of medical schools, like in Western Europe and in United States, Johns Hopkins. So to look at the percentage of physician scientists on faculty, what kind of admissions criteria they were using, what were their laboratory facilities like? 00;22;55;29 - 00;23;17;19 Speaker 3 By 1905, there were 17 of 17, seven historically black medical schools that had trained about 1600 black physicians. And, you know, we were not accepted to predominantly white schools. So so those schools were doing the majority of the educating. That report led to the closure of five out of seven of those schools. So I want to say this. 00;23;17;19 - 00;23;39;18 Speaker 3 People say it because people wrote to me after the book and they said, well, he closed schools that were underperforming. But the fact is that you cannot compare historically black schools that are working with a fraction of the wealth and resources of white schools, but also what is what's what is the standard, right, that that's an unreasonable standard to compare against. 00;23;39;20 - 00;24;13;09 Speaker 3 So five of those schools were closed, leaving behind Howard and Meharry. There was a report, actually a study in the Journal of American Medical Association, incidentally, in 2020 that estimated if those five medical schools had remained open, they would have trained between 25,000 and 35,000 physicians, 25,030 5000 black physicians. And we know, we know, they would've been black because to this day, HBCUs that medical schools still train the most, black physicians, educate the most black physicians. 00;24;13;12 - 00;24;43;10 Speaker 3 And so when I read that number, I cried because I thought, I think this is what racism does, right? It, erases potential, erases hope. Thinking about all of those patients that those 25 to 35,000 physicians could have cared for the research, they could have done, just the impact that they could have made on our communities. I thought, is very important because a lot of the times we say, okay, why are less than 6% of physicians black? 00;24;43;13 - 00;24;54;09 Speaker 3 Why? There's something wrong with us. There's nothing wrong with us. There's something very wrong with the system. Yeah. And. 00;24;54;12 - 00;25;26;06 Speaker 2 Obviously, a part of your. A big part of the book is, again, the untrustworthiness of the medical institutions. But I think if you polled ten black people, you would probably have more than nine who talked about who. We talk about negative experiences in the medical establishment, particularly this confusion as to whether. Have I been mistreated? Have I been discriminated against? 00;25;26;06 - 00;25;33;21 Speaker 2 I'm not quite sure something doesn't feel right. You know, I'm not sure if that misdiagnosis was because. 00;25;33;23 - 00;25;34;07 Speaker 1 It's. 00;25;34;10 - 00;25;50;19 Speaker 2 Very incompetent. They're racist, you know, or you know, I don't know. And this, this, this inability to figure out is it just adds to the stress. And but you have your own particular story of an appendicitis, right. This diagnosis. 00;25;50;19 - 00;26;12;21 Speaker 3 Yes. But before I, before I go into that, I just wanted to mention that I know if I told you that there was like this TikTok video and that people saw it went viral a few months ago or at some point last year, and it was a white male physician who was asking, wanted to know why. When he goes into a room with a black patient, they always have someone on FaceTime. 00;26;12;24 - 00;26;19;10 Speaker 3 Anyone see that? Like he was just bewildered as to why, why, why, why. 00;26;19;12 - 00;26;23;12 Speaker 1 Is this a witness surveillance. 00;26;23;14 - 00;26;37;27 Speaker 3 And I'm not saying and I'm not saying you should ask. You should. You should videotape your health professional without asking their permission. But this is where we are. Where? It's like people. They want someone in the room with them to make sure that they are being cared for. And this is where this is. This is where we are. 00;26;38;01 - 00;27;01;06 Speaker 3 But yes, I had that experience in medical school where, you know, for a week I had symptoms of abdominal pain, other symptoms I won't go into. And I went to, the Harvard Teaching Hospital three times over the course of a week. I was repeatedly told, like, I didn't seem to be in that much pain. I was questioned a lot about my sexual history, which is appropriate in a young woman with abdominal pain. 00;27;01;06 - 00;27;21;14 Speaker 3 But it was like very almost to the point it got very intrusive. And they as if they were not listening to me. And so it took three visits. And by the third visit, it turns out I had appendicitis, which, my appendix ruptured and I had to have an open appendectomy as a result, because usually they do laparoscopic, but because there was so much infection, they had to do an open. 00;27;21;14 - 00;27;44;13 Speaker 3 So to, to actually make an incision. And then I ended up having complications afterwards. I developed an infection, missed about four weeks of medical school. But during that time, on the first visit, my my twin sister ony said, hey, I think you have appendicitis. And but as medical students, we didn't even feel confident, empowered enough to speak up. 00;27;44;13 - 00;28;06;21 Speaker 3 So you can imagine someone who has no background, right, in medicine. But I remember afterwards, as I got older and I learned more after residency as practicing physician, I thought back on that experience and I was like, would that have happened if I wasn't a young black woman? It's like, we don't know. No, no to Toni Morrison talks about the destruction of racism, right? 00;28;06;22 - 00;28;10;06 Speaker 3 Yeah. But that's what we were like, okay. Would that have happened? Maybe it wasn't. Maybe I don't. 00;28;10;06 - 00;28;11;14 Speaker 1 Know. Yeah. 00;28;11;16 - 00;28;12;02 Speaker 3 Probably. 00;28;12;02 - 00;28;38;26 Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, what's interesting about it, the piece I wrote about always dressing up and going to the doctor and not wanting these assumptions to be made about me, led to an emergency room physician emailing me to say, I realize when reading your column the biases and assumptions I make about the people I see. So thank you for. And I'm going to try to do better, you know, going for it. 00;28;38;29 - 00;29;03;15 Speaker 2 I wasn't expecting a doctor to actually admit it. You know, that this this sense that we get of like having to like, perform and please and like bringing the shame with. But he strangely, admitted, I mean, of course, you know, it's kind of anonymous, but but I still thought it was an important thing to do. But again, to your point, like, we don't know. 00;29;03;15 - 00;29;31;13 Speaker 2 And that inability to, like, be sure and that the people in my family run the spectrum, you know, I try to how should I say, not just my presentation, but the way that I speak, my familiarity with, you know, correct pronunciations, whatever. You know, other people in my family have this, like, more combative kind of questioning, like almost skepticism of everything the doctor says. 00;29;31;13 - 00;30;02;07 Speaker 2 And I think there is this kind of spectrum of the way and we don't and, and probably all our methods are insufficient and inefficient, you know, and and neither method is guarantee for success. But, I mean, I can see just the different people in my family approach doctors visits in different ways. But at the foundation is all mistrust and suspicion and fear that something might go wrong. 00;30;02;07 - 00;30;10;23 Speaker 2 So I'm going to try to do everything that I can possibly do to see if maybe I can keep it from being all the way wrong, right. 00;30;10;23 - 00;30;25;13 Speaker 3 And I think even sometimes, like, I, you know, I know people who are health professionals, when they go for a visit, they'll make sure that that other person knows that they are, you know, it's like all these things that you're trying to do to protect yourself. 00;30;25;16 - 00;30;26;03 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00;30;26;06 - 00;30;36;15 Speaker 3 But we were talking about this how, you know, for us, you know, education, profession, socio economic and economic status, it's not as protective as it is for other folks. 00;30;36;15 - 00;30;38;24 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, talk about the neighborhood you grew up. Yeah. 00;30;38;29 - 00;30;58;01 Speaker 3 Yeah. No. Yes. Yes. My neighborhood, you know, in Crown Heights, as I mentioned, like, I, I thought, you know, my, my parents, you know, where my mother was a physician, my father worked for the Board of Education, but we were on a block where, you know, I was seeing people get shot. You know, I was fighting crack vials in my front yard. 00;30;58;03 - 00;31;05;26 Speaker 3 That was that was in Norwalk. We talk about, you know, we are literally one generation away from, you know. 00;31;05;29 - 00;31;08;25 Speaker 2 From struggle and maybe next door to. 00;31;08;27 - 00;31;26;00 Speaker 3 Yeah, and maybe next door. Yeah. I would, I would hear my neighbors, you know, fighting all the time. Not not not domestic. But you know, they were, you know, they were using crack cocaine. And when they were high, I would hear them, you know, just yelling and arguing with each other. I would go to bed to that. 00;31;26;04 - 00;31;47;28 Speaker 3 Yeah. You know, but at the same time, then later on being environments where people could have never imagined that would be my reality. Yeah. And I remember, I think I wrote in the book about how I was in high school. There was, a white classmate of mine who wanted to drive me home, and I was so embarrassed to have them drive me home. 00;31;48;01 - 00;32;00;12 Speaker 3 And when I think about it today, I want to cry because I loved my neighbors. I loved my neighborhood. But then there was that. That in that moment, I felt embarrassed. 00;32;01;15 - 00;32;04;14 Speaker 3 You know, and, I feel, you know, I'm like. 00;32;04;19 - 00;32;06;27 Speaker 1 How could I have felt embarrassed? 00;32;06;29 - 00;32;07;16 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00;32;07;19 - 00;32;27;25 Speaker 3 But, you know, we know how you know. Yeah. This other messaging that we internalized is something, something wrong with us. I thought they were going to judge me. Yeah, but my my neighbors took great care of us. Yeah, they shoveled the our front yard when it snowed. Well, it's often it's like the street parking, which is like, hell of a policy and parking policy in New York City. 00;32;27;25 - 00;32;44;22 Speaker 3 They would let us know when, the traffic cop was going to come. Let's get our car. Yeah, but at the same time, like I noticed, I noticed my neighborhood was very different than neighborhoods that were ten minutes away. But it wasn't until I was older that I learned that my neighborhood was formerly redlined. Yeah. 00;32;44;25 - 00;32;52;11 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. You mentioned you're stepping away from academic medicine and to doing your own thing. 00;32;52;13 - 00;33;17;12 Speaker 3 Why, yeah. Oh, I, you know, so, so also part of this book is, I think people who read it recognize that it's like multiple journeys. So, I mean, there are multiple layers. So the one layer is really it's about me finding myself and finding my purpose. And for a very long time, I think, you know, because I had a mother who was a physician and she was in academics, I think that's all I knew. 00;33;17;12 - 00;33;43;22 Speaker 3 And I think that's all I knew of what what success looked like. And it was I was at NYU, I'm very public about this. And, you know, I was the probably one of one, one of too often only black faculty in my department, one of the largest emergency medicine departments in New York City. And I was just, like, shuffling along, doing what I thought I was supposed to do, doing education research. 00;33;43;22 - 00;34;07;11 Speaker 3 I had, developed first emergency ultrasound curriculum for their medical school. I developed, a third of the ultrasound fellowship for our department. I thought I was doing what I was told. All these things are that are successful. And then in 2017, I was handpicked based on the work I had done for the medical school for, a role in the Office of Diversity Affairs. 00;34;07;14 - 00;34;34;07 Speaker 3 And I was so excited about this role. And then come to find out, it was just a figurehead role. And I never felt so demoralized in my life. And not only was I not expected to do anything in that role, but I also was like under a microscope and I was silenced and muzzled in that role, and I felt like I was suffocating. 00;34;34;09 - 00;34;53;21 Speaker 3 And I don't know if you ever look back on pictures of when of really like trying times. When I look back on pictures from when I was there, I, I had lost a lot of weight. I wasn't sleeping at dark circles under my eyes. And so when I think about us often in these environments, I think academia is one of them. 00;34;53;24 - 00;35;15;28 Speaker 3 These are environments where I've talked about this often. We often forget that we have gets to share and that not only that, but we are the gifts, to these environments. But we because of the culture, right? You forget that I got to a point where I thought I was stuck, and people look at you and say, how could you think you're stuck, right? 00;35;16;00 - 00;35;34;25 Speaker 3 But you fit, but you feel stuck. And I had to make this really hard decision. And I said, you know what? I think I want to leave. And I've actually been offered I don't write about this in the book, but I was offered associate dean of diversity at Harvard Medical School around the same time. I was thinking about leaving, and I was just like, nah, I don't want it, I don't want it. 00;35;35;02 - 00;36;00;16 Speaker 3 I'm so done with it. And it was interesting. So I left. In December 2019, I left NYU working in urgent care and my business and, you know, then spring 2020 hits and I, but I stayed the course. I started writing about what I was seeing in my clinical practice. I became one of the first voices to start writing about racial health inequities in the pandemic. 00;36;00;18 - 00;36;29;03 Speaker 3 I started writing op eds, and then a few op eds turned into radio and TV interviews. And then I got my MSNBC contract, and then, my book contract. People asked me, how did you even write a book? My literary agent, she was she followed me on Twitter. She used to listen to me on the radio. And I say this because when you are in alignment with with your purpose and you're doing what you need to do, the people who see you will need to see you. 00;36;29;03 - 00;36;42;07 Speaker 3 You just need to keep doing what you're doing. And so I feel like I like leaving. NYU was truly a life saving decision. And I don't say I I'm not telling everyone to leave academic. 00;36;42;07 - 00;36;44;01 Speaker 1 Medicine. 00;36;44;03 - 00;37;08;18 Speaker 3 After me for that. It's a it's a very deeply personal decision. But I tell us to really ask yourself always ask yourself, am I in alignment with this environment? Is this environment supporting me? Can I thrive here? Right. And that all I really want to be here. No no no no. They are so lucky to have us so lucky and we can't forget that. 00;37;08;21 - 00;37;11;18 Speaker 2 And your mother's instruction was to put yourself first. 00;37;11;20 - 00;37;43;25 Speaker 3 Yes. My mother's instruction. Although. Yeah. You write about in the book how, you know, when my mother was diagnosed with leukemia. So I was, that was my freshman year. My sophomore year of college in the fall. And then she died the following summer. So she lived for about nine months after from her diagnosis on and that time it felt like limbo because I knew she just wasn't responding to the chemotherapy. 00;37;43;28 - 00;38;03;04 Speaker 3 And I would have a lot of conversations with her from college or just call her on the phone, because I think, I don't know the last conversation I'm going to have with her. So one time I asked her, mommy, what? What is something I should know? And I get older like and she said, even when you have your babies, you make sure you take care of yourself. 00;38;03;06 - 00;38;20;23 Speaker 3 You always put yourself first. And I feel like she said that because she never did that. Like now looking back. So as a 19 year old, you know, my mom was just my mom, but now I'm the same age my mother was when she died, and I now I can see her for all the complexity that she was right. 00;38;20;23 - 00;38;29;25 Speaker 3 Being someone's partner or being a parent, being a mentor, being a physician, all of all that she carried. Yeah, that was a lot. 00;38;29;29 - 00;38;35;22 Speaker 2 Yeah, that is a lot that is a lot. 00;38;35;24 - 00;38;42;28 Speaker 2 I think that the people here have questions that they are dying to get out. And so I wonder. 00;38;42;29 - 00;38;45;07 Speaker 3 Can I just kind of say one thing before. 00;38;45;09 - 00;38;46;05 Speaker 1 Yes, yes, yes. 00;38;46;10 - 00;39;04;03 Speaker 3 So the other thing that that got me through like really trying times is my amazing therapist doctor Shaniqua Anderson, who literally held me down, has held me down like for the last six years. And she is here. 00;39;04;05 - 00;39;08;08 Unknown She's right there. No, no. 00;39;08;09 - 00;39;28;08 Speaker 3 Like literally, I wouldn't I would not, you know. I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be here without you. Like there were times that, like she always believed in me. So find yourself a doctor, Shaniqua. Understand? 00;39;28;11 - 00;39;36;06 Speaker 2 I think that deserves a place. 00;39;36;08 - 00;39;43;13 Speaker 2 So, questions that you have for Doctor Blackstock. I see one right here to my left here. 00;39;43;16 - 00;39;46;08 Speaker 3 Just make sure everyone can hear. Thank you. 00;39;46;10 - 00;40;08;14 Speaker 4 I really, really love your book. I actually took me longer, to read because I had to pause. Because it just resonated with me. I'm a, pharmacist. I was trained as a clinical pharmacist, at the Manhattan VA. And I finished my residency, and I got a job offer, because of my experiences during that residency. 00;40;08;18 - 00;40;10;04 Speaker 3 At the VA. 00;40;10;07 - 00;40;51;21 Speaker 4 The Manhattan VA and also at the Bronx. Yeah. I decided not to practice pharmacy because I was like, I do not need my life to be impacted by people's biases that are racist comments, you know, the subtleties of it all and trying to figure it out. So I had other plans. I just yeah. Yeah. But so my question for you is, at the end of your book, you talked to different stakeholders and you give them, you know, pearls of how we should improve, you know, the health care system, the policy, how we treat patients, how white doctors see black patients and all of those things, what's happening today. 00;40;51;23 - 00;41;04;20 Speaker 4 And, you know, how how do you feel about, you know, you put all that effort into trying to help move everybody along. But here we have this administration has really taken us way back. So how how. 00;41;04;22 - 00;41;05;20 Speaker 2 You can use this one? 00;41;05;22 - 00;41;25;05 Speaker 3 Okay. Thank you so much for asking that question. I also want to hear what you do now. Okay. But it's so interesting because when I wrote the book, I started writing in 2021. Right. So, you know, the book came out in 2024. And I thought to myself, yeah, this book is going to be evergreen. But actually, I think it's it's even more relevant now. 00;41;25;05 - 00;41;47;01 Speaker 3 I mean, you know, people are like, oh, what are you gonna do now? Oh, I'm going to send, send on like just, you know, ten toes. Yeah. Like we are like nothing, nothing has changed. But I think what is, in this moment, what is really important, like this is important, right? Community is important. I see, like, you know, it posted the other day on social media that, community is the opposite of chaos. 00;41;47;01 - 00;42;05;09 Speaker 3 Like, they want us to be shared. They want us to be isolated. But you know what? We have each other. Right? And so I would say like choose 1 or 2 things, like whether it is within your, you know, your affinity group, pharmacy organization of a black pharmacists. But we are making sure that we are not going to be isolated. 00;42;05;09 - 00;42;21;06 Speaker 3 We're going to coalition build, we're going to community builds. We're going to reach out to our legal colleagues to find out, like, what are ways that we can get around these policies. Because while we have not been in this exact moment before, our people have been here before, right? And they have not and they have not given up. 00;42;21;09 - 00;42;25;18 Speaker 3 Right. So until we kind of keep going, okay, so to tell you at home. 00;42;25;20 - 00;42;36;16 Speaker 4 So I, I decided to start working and since I was I'm from New Orleans, went to Xavier. 00;42;36;18 - 00;43;11;17 Speaker 4 And and so but since I live in the Tri-State area Company and, you know, in and in each of the states. So I started out working in, drug safety, and helping to a lot of their adverse events with the drugs and making sure that as a company, we did what we need to do to report any adverse events to the, the FDA and then, ultimately, there's a bill based roles, customer facing working with physicians who support and kind of bridging the gap within the pharmaceutical market. 00;43;11;20 - 00;43;26;07 Speaker 4 Right now, I do I'm training. I'm not in the field anymore. Did that for about 20 years. But, I'm also the column for our Black and Latinx biopharmaceutical company. And the thing is, over the years, I have opted out of. 00;43;26;07 - 00;43;28;03 Speaker 3 Doing these kind. 00;43;28;03 - 00;43;30;05 Speaker 4 Of, it's just performed. 00;43;30;07 - 00;43;34;21 Speaker 3 Right, performed in the me. And then also basically to do the work, they don't compensate you. 00;43;34;23 - 00;43;37;07 Speaker 1 So. 00;43;37;09 - 00;43;46;01 Speaker 4 That's very rare and lots of times. So patients who are not black people. Right. 00;43;46;03 - 00;43;46;25 Speaker 3 Right. 00;43;46;28 - 00;44;10;23 Speaker 4 Yes. Well, you know, you know, those patients aren't aren't really impacted. You don't know. Right. Right. So a lot of what I've been doing the last couple of years is, you know, talking to them about, you know, the importance of diversity in clinical research. And then, you know, doing I get real people talk about slavery. Yeah. And, and but this year, I'm actually going to be leading a discussion about your book. 00;44;10;26 - 00;44;11;28 Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. 00;44;11;28 - 00;44;14;19 Speaker 1 Oh. Thank you. Yeah. 00;44;14;21 - 00;44;31;16 Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. No. Yes. And I'm so excited because I love how the book has ended up in different environments. And thank you, because it's really us that we we bring the book to these organizations. So I appreciate you so much. And if there are any other folks that want to like, you know, connect with you, right? You're here. 00;44;31;16 - 00;44;36;22 Speaker 3 Right? You can. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Yes. 00;44;36;24 - 00;44;43;00 Speaker 4 Oh, yes. 00;44;43;02 - 00;44;44;18 Unknown I got the Black Star. 00;44;44;21 - 00;45;08;24 Speaker 4 My name is Savannah Samuel. And so, I that's a huge book. And I really enjoyed it. And I think one thing that I wanted to acknowledge was your bravery in being able to speak out against the large incidents that you participated in. So my question with that is, how were you able to navigate speaking out about incidents, without fear of retaliation? 00;45;08;26 - 00;45;29;19 Speaker 3 Okay. I was scared, as I said, like, I, I was very, very scared. You know, I don't know if people. Right. But some people here may know. I wrote a piece in an op ed, actually, right after I left, white black faculty leave academic medicine. It was in stat news for the Boston Globe. And actually, I wrote it like eight months before I left. 00;45;29;21 - 00;45;50;28 Speaker 3 I didn't want to publish until I had actually left. Right. But I also feel like, you know, I asked the editor, I'm like, is there anything in here that, like, can be sued me? Right. And he's like, no. But when I wrote the book, though, you know, those publishers have legal review it. Yeah. Right. And so, legal reviewed it maybe like 1 or 2 things I had to change very, very, very minor. 00;45;50;28 - 00;46;13;24 Speaker 3 But you recognize that, you know, I think for me, because I had privilege in leaving because I had other options, I felt like it really was incumbent on me to speak up because there were many other people of my, you know, my peers, our medical students, you know, other trainees who could not speak up. And so I really had the privilege to do so. 00;46;13;29 - 00;46;31;04 Speaker 3 And I also noticed the more that I spoke up, the more that I got support. So there were more people behind me. And you find that as well. But, I'm not saying I think, you know, everyone should, you know, you know, medical students just start like, you know, speaking up and then obviously we want that to be that would be ideal. 00;46;31;04 - 00;46;42;14 Speaker 3 That's aspirational and that should be the reality. But you know, there are folks like me who I can use my platform. That's what I do. I use my platform. Sorry. 00;46;42;16 - 00;46;54;04 Speaker 2 Other questions. Can you pass the microphone? 00;46;54;06 - 00;46;55;04 Speaker 4 Yeah, I. 00;46;55;06 - 00;46;59;15 Speaker 1 I hand hi. 00;46;59;18 - 00;47;00;03 Speaker 2 You're good. 00;47;00;06 - 00;47;15;10 Speaker 4 My name is Shikha. Do you want to do, I'm from Oklahoma City, and I first, before I ask my question, I just want to say thank you. In your book, you talk. There's a part you talked about permission, and, 00;47;15;13 - 00;47;17;10 Speaker 1 You can get emotional. 00;47;17;12 - 00;47;43;15 Speaker 4 But, I just want to thank you. Because no one's really ever told me that it's okay to take the unconventional route, for things. And I just really appreciate that you've done that. And, it's just allowed me to just take more breaks and, like, for right now, and for more breaks and, just give me more of myself. 00;47;43;18 - 00;48;07;12 Speaker 4 And it's it's just really easy to succumb to people's expectations of what they have for you and the expectations that I have for myself. And I just love those lines. And my question for you, like, if you could look or talk to your younger 26 year old self, how would you painfully tell yourself to separate those expectations? 00;48;07;15 - 00;48;29;27 Speaker 3 I okay, so I that's okay. Okay. So few things. One I want to say that a lot of the decisions I made, like I made this already, like I was scared. But what I recognize as being brave doesn't mean that you're not scared. And it still means that you have to make these tough decisions, right? The other thing is, I had a lot of. 00;48;29;27 - 00;48;31;18 Speaker 4 Guilt actually leaving. 00;48;31;18 - 00;48;33;16 Speaker 3 NYU, mostly because of the medical. 00;48;33;16 - 00;48;35;03 Speaker 4 Students. 00;48;35;05 - 00;48;42;05 Speaker 3 Because I felt like, oh my goodness. Like, you know, I was I was a mentor to them. But then when I recognized as they looked at. 00;48;42;05 - 00;48;44;01 Speaker 4 Me and saw, oh, Doctor Blackstock is. 00;48;44;01 - 00;48;58;10 Speaker 3 Doing something else, like, this is another way that she is mentoring us. He's showing us that there's a different way of doing things. So I felt like that gave me some peace. Okay. And then the last thing you ask me with blessing is that that's what my hair looks like. 00;48;58;10 - 00;49;12;18 Speaker 4 A six year old self, for example, would be like basically your expectations. Like what my mom has at the same it's should be what should I? 00;49;12;20 - 00;49;18;02 Speaker 1 Oh my God, help me with this. She always has the answer. 00;49;20;23 - 00;49;44;29 Speaker 3 Like this is what I will say is that, if I did do it again, I would just make sure that I wasn't necessarily just checking off boxes and living, like, passively. I think I would ask myself, like, you know, what gives you what is who gives you purpose? What gives you joy? Making sure that you and I talked about alignment already, making sure that you're already in alignment. 00;49;45;05 - 00;49;59;28 Speaker 3 Right. But that's not something I think I was just like on this trajectory, I like, okay, I'm going to be a doctor that I'm going to be I'm going to do residency, that I'm going to fellowship. And then but what about everything else? What about like, the rest of life? Right. And so but I think it's hard with family. 00;49;59;28 - 00;50;07;29 Speaker 3 It's hard for the family. It's hard, you know? Yeah. Especially, you know, immigrant family. I have a father's in Jamaica, you know. Yeah. 00;50;08;02 - 00;50;09;05 Speaker 4 My parents. And from. 00;50;09;11 - 00;50;29;09 Speaker 3 Yeah. So it's. Yeah, it's so, so hard. And then the other thing is, you know, sometimes when you want to get advice, you go to people who have been brave in their own lives. And not to say that your parents haven't been brave. They've been brave in their own ways, but sometimes they don't have the imagination to think bigger, like the way that you want to think bigger. 00;50;29;09 - 00;50;33;04 Speaker 3 And that's just it. It's not a knock on them at all. 00;50;33;06 - 00;50;36;15 Speaker 4 Thank you. 00;50;36;18 - 00;50;39;13 Speaker 3 Oh, how many more questions? 00;50;39;15 - 00;50;41;24 Speaker 1 Maybe I. 00;50;41;27 - 00;50;48;12 Speaker 4 Okay, so I'll be clear on oh, it's, turned it off. 00;50;48;14 - 00;50;50;12 Speaker 1 So I was going to speak. 00;50;50;12 - 00;51;21;01 Speaker 4 To the guilt that, professionals have particularly when we are the only ones in academia and our students. There's loads of research about how our service goes beyond the portfolio, because the students will sit in our office and cry and pray, and then we go home, and then we cry and we pray, and we when we leave those places where burdened with failing by an entire system. 00;51;21;01 - 00;51;34;08 Speaker 4 So I was glad to hear what you said, that our students are still watching and they're learning new tools because we have adapted. But my my ultimate quest. Well, now that I don't have that question. So thank. 00;51;34;08 - 00;51;35;22 Speaker 1 You. I wanted to say. 00;51;35;25 - 00;52;05;25 Speaker 4 I give kudos because, I love watching the nontraditional reader. So we support because we know we know what's in this book. We feel it, we resonate. But when you see Karen and how they respond on your pages about how their entire lives have been transformed by this text and how they're they're endeavoring to do more, I, I'm just proud. 00;52;05;28 - 00;52;13;17 Speaker 4 So I want to give you a round of applause for your chance here. 00;52;13;20 - 00;52;43;03 Speaker 4 Know your realness in there. Oftentimes as black women, where this this cloak, we try to save the world. And and especially when you're in health care and you go to seek opinions and you become the patient is oftentimes you forget, you know, the clinical rationale, we can't think because we're there. And you shared that. And not many people will say, I just didn't know, like the dual story. 00;52;43;03 - 00;52;46;22 Speaker 3 Right? I was so yeah. And I don't know. 00;52;46;24 - 00;52;52;09 Speaker 4 If people wouldn't talk about that. So again, thank thank you. And kudos. 00;52;52;15 - 00;53;01;28 Speaker 3 And I just want to just, echo something that you said that another thing I may not say it explicitly in the book, but I feel strongly that we cannot always be the. 00;53;01;28 - 00;53;03;13 Speaker 4 Martyrs. 00;53;03;16 - 00;53;22;28 Speaker 3 Because we have one. We have to take care of ourselves first, right? In order to continue doing the work for our community. So we have to like, shouldn't you question you? Could you just tell me? Yeah, you can tap tap in and then tap out, you know, tap entirely to tap. I'm feeling good. Okay? I need I need a break, right? 00;53;23;00 - 00;53;33;01 Speaker 3 Yes. Because we want to be doing this work for the long run. We want it to be sustainable. We cannot exhaust ourselves. It cannot. 00;53;33;03 - 00;53;36;07 Speaker 4 Hi. Oh. 00;53;36;09 - 00;53;39;10 Speaker 1 Here's a yes. 00;53;39;12 - 00;53;48;25 Speaker 4 I just remember reading this book at a time. I was also in academic medicine. I have multiple jobs. Not just being an OBE, but. 00;53;48;28 - 00;53;49;28 Speaker 3 A whole bunch of roles, right? 00;53;49;28 - 00;54;12;11 Speaker 4 Yes, a lot of roles. And oftentimes I was actually silenced. And I remember just working with residents and med students, they'd be like, you're so brave or so brave. But I was often punished for speaking out about what I didn't agree with, for what I assault was wrong, whether it was, you know, treatment of patients, residents, other colleagues. 00;54;12;11 - 00;54;35;10 Speaker 4 And I got tired of being the one that was always speaking up and not having that support. And I felt like mentally and physically, it was slowly killing myself. And then I literally decided one day I'm quitting all of my jobs. And unfortunately, I was in a position where I could do that. And reading your book really inspired me to do that. 00;54;35;13 - 00;54;39;26 Speaker 3 And I inspired you to quit. 00;54;39;28 - 00;54;41;18 Speaker 3 I yeah, I. 00;54;41;21 - 00;54;45;16 Speaker 1 Was like, oh, she did it. So everything turned out well for her. Yeah. 00;54;45;18 - 00;54;57;17 Speaker 4 I and that's how I ended up moving here to New Orleans. I've only been here for six months. Yeah. 00;54;57;20 - 00;55;20;12 Speaker 4 I learned how to say no. I learned how to really take a job where I was going to be happy, and that my mental and physical health was a priority. And now I'm trying to teach my 21 year old daughter to have that same mindset. I was like, things are going to be okay. You do not need to stress about life when you're in college. 00;55;20;12 - 00;55;23;15 Speaker 4 Like, it's sorry if anyone's in college. That's not. 00;55;23;15 - 00;55;27;10 Speaker 1 That's just like. 00;55;27;12 - 00;55;40;19 Speaker 4 I there's other things to be stressed about, but I'm trying to teach her now to really enjoy life and to take advantage of all the things that, you know, she has the opportunity to do. So thank you. 00;55;40;19 - 00;56;11;01 Speaker 3 Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, I can say that. And I want to say, like I wrote, I wrote this book for us. For us, to validate our experiences as patients, to validate your experience as health professionals, to say, like it's you're not going crazy. This is not in your head, you know? And then if other folks think it's great if other folks read this and get something from it, that's like the the cherry on the top, but but first and foremost is really to validate the experiences that we have. 00;56;11;01 - 00;56;33;00 Speaker 3 Because I know when I was going through everything, I felt so isolated. I felt I think there was embarrassment, I think there was some relation. And that's why. And if I could go back, I probably would have reached out more to my, to other, my other black colleagues. I just felt I was like disappointed in myself, not recognizing that really. 00;56;33;00 - 00;56;36;00 Speaker 3 It was like the institution that should be disappointed. 00;56;36;03 - 00;56;54;22 Speaker 4 And I was fortunate. I had a great boss who a black female, she's like, you look unhappy. She's like, what can I do? She was, you know, trying to find me a place to go. What would make me happy? Where should I go? Right. And so I was very fortunate in that sense that she wasn't very supportive of me, like I was going to mess up everyone's schedule. 00;56;54;22 - 00;56;58;13 Speaker 4 But she knew, like I needed to go. Yeah. Yes. 00;56;58;15 - 00;57;12;17 Speaker 3 One more question, doctor Nicholas. This is Doctor Emily Nichols. Everyone who came together at Kings County. She is, physician leader, this wonderful human being. 00;57;12;19 - 00;57;16;10 Speaker 4 Thank you, doctor black. 00;57;16;12 - 00;57;42;17 Speaker 4 Was my chief resident and has been a mentor to me ever since I've known her. And heart emojis to, you know. It's just been a gift, a blessing to be able to read about your experience. I've learned so much. I never knew, even when we were beside each other so many years. And so I want to say thank you. 00;57;42;19 - 00;58;03;18 Speaker 4 I'm obviously a health care provider. My mom is an educator, but she's not in the health field. And she says to me, you know, I understand every bit of this. And so I think this book has resonated with so many people, even out of the health care field. And put me on the spot and I forgot my question. 00;58;04;08 - 00;58;22;17 Speaker 4 But I think, Oh, I remember, so many of us have talked about these experiences of being in these spaces that don't love us, and are often using our pedigree as a checkbox for their, their agendas that may or may not be supported, on a larger screen or canceled, you know. 00;58;22;20 - 00;58;24;23 Speaker 2 In a matter of weeks. 00;58;24;25 - 00;58;43;22 Speaker 4 And I think part of leaving I don't know if you experienced this, but behind the sorrow and the guilt, I think there comes a point of anger. Before you can get back to doing the good work, did you experience that. And if so can you talk about how you might, how you work through that to get where you are now. 00;58;43;24 - 00;59;02;26 Speaker 3 You know, I so, so you know that, you know, the last few years have been like just so intense for me. And I think also because, you know, when the pandemic started and then I started doing a lot of health communications. And so I felt like that work that I was doing, that media work I was doing, like that work that was so, so filling for me. 00;59;02;28 - 00;59;22;10 Speaker 3 And then there was so much abundance that came from leaving. So I was like, I don't even need to, like, say anything to them. Like, they can just stay. But literally, I mean, there were times I was telling stories, three times I was on air like five times a day, like every show, like every show on MSNBC would be calling for me. 00;59;22;13 - 00;59;43;21 Speaker 3 And the other thing was, I remember my talent agent, who's a black, black woman. She said to me, after the first few months I was on air, she's like, okay, our our development guy wants me to tell you that when you're on air, you can say whatever you want. And I was like, really? I was so used to being silenced, I was. 00;59;43;21 - 01;00;07;09 Speaker 3 So I had to, like, unlearn that and to relearn how to use my voice. And, and, you know, my tell you said, okay, because the people, the producers are calling for you because they want your perspective as a black woman, a position apparent, like your perspective is very different from the other medical contributors. I had to own that, you know, so that was part of it. 01;00;07;09 - 01;00;15;24 Speaker 3 You know, that was just holding up like, well, recognizing that, oh, well, I can speak up. I can see what's on my mind when I wasn't able to do that before. 01;00;15;27 - 01;00;25;22 Unknown Thank. 01;00;25;24 - 01;00;29;21 Unknown You so great. 01;00;29;24 - 01;00;57;25 Speaker 2 I told you it was going to be a good conversation, did I not? I did not disappoint at all. I will end my part by saying that I mentioned February 24th. Which is six days from now would be five years since, my kidney transplant and my 12 year old daughter has decided that she's going to be a transplant surgeon. 01;00;57;27 - 01;01;21;25 Speaker 2 And it is the legacy that you mentioned. It's not just about bloodline, but I think one of the reasons that she knows that she can do that is because there is because of so many people in this room that she's already seen do it. And so I know it's about mother and twin daughters, but there is a bigger, bigger legacy here at play in your book. 01;01;21;28 - 01;01;24;25 Speaker 2 And we are all so grateful that you came here to talk to us here. 01;01;24;27 - 01;01;37;07 Speaker 3 Thank you so much. I always say, you know, legacy is about finding your purpose and being part of the change, right? And so that's what your daughter is doing. 01;01;37;07 - 01;01;38;11 Speaker 1 Yes. 01;01;38;13 - 01;01;45;10 Speaker 3 We'll do. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for coming. 01;01;45;12 - 01;01;55;23 Speaker 4 Hey, y'all. This me again? Oh, thank you again. For being here. You guys, you don't understand how much this man said. Just another out there. But for us here at.